The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation or represent exceptional quality and distinction.
would have a biased outcome within the vote if GW fans end up judging the whole question based on that sentence alone.
And a cupcake option wouldnt be able to save it o_o
Why Channel or Gucci are priced the way they are? After all they probably come from the same Chinese factory that manufactures the 10$ fleamarket ones.
GW simply tries to project added value to their figures with pricing making them look as if they are not toys because would you pay 40$ for a box of army men? No, we do it because it´s a HOBBY and everybody knows that toys are cheap and hobbies expensive.
Manchu wrote:Voted no based on that definition. Price is the LAST THING that encourages favorable views of GW products.
You'll be surprised to hear convo like " wow why do you buy that drill from none GW store , im sure it sucks "
and replace that with w/e product GW makes and i have heard them.
Hence too often have i see people claiming GW product is good just because its "GW"
despite them never having any other company's product to try it with at all yet.
Miguelsan wrote:Why Channel or Gucci are priced the way they are? After all they probably come from the same Chinese factory that manufactures the 10$ fleamarket ones.
Firstly, good job implying that chinese labor by nature is cheap and poor. Secondly incorrect as Gucci products are entirely "hand made in italy" though that label could spuriously still imply assembly or parts construction in china or taiwan. Finally quality is utterly disconnected from country of origin. American cars now suck, korean items weren't worth the toxic plastic they were made of 20 years ago while being top quality today, and you can get some great steel in asia.
GW simply tries to project added value to their figures with pricing making them look as if they are not toys because would you pay 40$ for a box of army men? No, we do it because it´s a HOBBY and everybody knows that toys are cheap and hobbies expensive.
M.
Value is entirely relative. If they sell figures at those prices and those figures then sell, then those figures are worth those prices. As for the topic title, the figures are roughly equivalent to what the competition charges. Privateer is no cheaper, nor is infinity, nor is reaper. As the leader GW sets a price, but the competition almost immediately steps in to copy. Citadel, privateer, and Vallejo paints are now roughly equivalent, and all are below art store prices.
ShumaGorath wrote:Value is entirely relative. If they sell figures at those prices and those figures then sell, then those figures are worth those prices. As for the topic title, the figures are roughly equivalent to what the competition charges. Privateer is no cheaper, nor is infinity, nor is reaper. As the leader GW sets a price, but the competition almost immediately steps in to copy. Citadel, privateer, and Vallejo paints are now roughly equivalent, and all are below art store prices.
Manchu wrote:Voted no based on that definition. Price is the LAST THING that encourages favorable views of GW products.
You'll be surprised to hear convo like " wow why do you buy that drill from none GW store , im sure it sucks "
and replace that with w/e product GW makes and i have heard them.
Hence too often have i see people claiming GW product is good just because its "GW"
despite them never having any other company's product to try it with at all yet.
I've heard the opposite. "GW stuff is crap. You only pay for the name brand." I know it's false in some cases. I have "Atlus" brand brushes (they were cheap) and I have to say that I preferred using my friend's Citadel brushes. Likewise, I bought a pair of cheap snps from a hobby shop that suck compared to the Citadel ones. I no longer even use the old pair. Now, I'm sure they do charge more--but it's probably because they can rather than a strategy to make people think their product is superior because the price is higher. I don't think that kind of "branding" really applies to the hobby scene. At least not yet.
ShumaGorath wrote:Value is entirely relative. If they sell figures at those prices and those figures then sell, then those figures are worth those prices. As for the topic title, the figures are roughly equivalent to what the competition charges. Privateer is no cheaper, nor is infinity, nor is reaper. As the leader GW sets a price, but the competition almost immediately steps in to copy. Citadel, privateer, and Vallejo paints are now roughly equivalent, and all are below art store prices.
So... you 2 agree on that.
Firstly, use the language correctly. Numbers are not words. Secondly agree on what? that supply and demand exists? That price curve comparisons exist between companies within the same field? What do I agree on? I didn't even vote because that isn't a yes or no question without specifics and relative terminology.
Cryonicleech wrote:I'm no expert, but I feel that GW could bring down prices a tad.
They certainly could. But that's not the issue.
The question that Luna is asking, as outlined by the linked definition, is whether GW's prices are as high as they are to encourage their perception as a quality product.
Premium Pricing relies on people choosing an expensive product over a cheaper one on the assumption that the expensive one should be better.
That's not what GW are about at all. They price as they do because they can, not because they think that being more expensive improves the perception of their product.
Cryonicleech wrote:I'm no expert, but I feel that GW could bring down prices a tad.
They certainly could. But that's not the issue.
The question that Luna is asking, as outlined by the linked definition, is whether GW's prices are as high as they are to encourage their perception as a quality product.
Premium Pricing relies on people choosing an expensive product over a cheaper one on the assumption that the expensive one should be better.
That's not what GW are about at all. They price as they do because they can, not because they think that being more expensive improves the perception of their product.
And it's not even really that.
This thread came about after a discussion where she brought up the notion that Games Workshop charges the prices on their models due to the fact that you're "paying for both a hobby AND a game."
Miguelsan wrote:Why Channel or Gucci are priced the way they are? After all they probably come from the same Chinese factory that manufactures the 10$ fleamarket ones.
Firstly, good job implying that chinese labor by nature is cheap and poor. Secondly incorrect as Gucci products are entirely "hand made in italy" though that label could spuriously still imply assembly or parts construction in china or taiwan. Finally quality is utterly disconnected from country of origin. American cars now suck, korean items weren't worth the toxic plastic they were made of 20 years ago while being top quality today, and you can get some great steel in asia.
Talk about implying things!. Chinese labor is cheap, full stop. The poor and low quality due to being Chinese is something you decided to add by yourself.
Some years ago I had to do some research on brands and counterfeiting and found that the biggest problem luxury brands had was when they changed suppliers and the former supplier kept on manufacturing the handbags, purses, without authorization, putting the same product on the market at the real manufacturing cost. So my comment was related to that, due to having the regular markets closed on trademark reasons they go to outlets, fleamarkets and other places where the consumer can buy almost the same product for a fraction of the price. I was not dishing against the factories.
GW simply tries to project added value to their figures with pricing making them look as if they are not toys because would you pay 40$ for a box of army men? No, we do it because it´s a HOBBY and everybody knows that toys are cheap and hobbies expensive.
M.
Value is entirely relative. If they sell figures at those prices and those figures then sell, then those figures are worth those prices. As for the topic title, the figures are roughly equivalent to what the competition charges. Privateer is no cheaper, nor is infinity, nor is reaper. As the leader GW sets a price, but the competition almost immediately steps in to copy. Citadel, privateer, and Vallejo paints are now roughly equivalent, and all are below art store prices.
See above, Mercedes sells cars at the prices they do because people are expecting an added value from the brand name. If Porche were to sell cars at Toyota or Ford prices they would lose clients because then a) The added value from having an exclusive car brand is lost and b) People would think that there was something fishy about a cheap Porche, perhaps not top of the line quality, problems with the design...
So, yeah added value is relative but very, very real and follows a certain set of rules. Market segmentation by price is a basic pillar of pricing policies and GW is trying to set themselves apart from the competition by saying my product is expensive because it´s worth every €/$/Yen. I charge 40€ for the Goldswords because the box is dripping quality. And the other big players follow because they don´t want to be branded as cheap GW´s knockoffs (It doesn´t hurt that they are milking the market as much as they can too)
Talk about implying things!. Chinese labor is cheap, full stop. The poor and low quality due to being Chinese is something you decided to add by yourself. Some years ago I had to do some research on brands and counterfeiting and found that the biggest problem luxury brands had was when they changed suppliers and the former supplier kept on manufacturing the handbags, purses, without authorization, putting the same product on the market at the real manufacturing cost. So my comment was related to that, due to having the regular markets closed on trademark reasons they go to outlets, fleamarkets and other places where the consumer can buy almost the same product for a fraction of the price. I was not dishing against the factories.
My bad. I get the cheap chinese stealin our jobs thing a lot, and it grates.
So, yeah added value is relative but very, very real and follows a certain set of rules. Market segmentation by price is a basic pillar of pricing policies and GW is trying to set themselves apart from the competition by saying my product is expensive because it´s worth every €/$/Yen. I charge 40€ for the Goldswords because the box is dripping quality. And the other big players follow because they don´t want to be branded as cheap GW´s knockoffs (It doesn´t hurt that they are milking the market as much as they can too)
Except GW is not and has never been a premium dealer. They do not bill themselves as the top of the ladder, and indeed they sell kits that are quite simple, cheap and low quality (black reach, the model/paint tie in sets) as well as kits that are very high end (forge world titans). They are a company that is not in the business of dominating a specific and small segment of the model economy. They are not the most expensive, this is easily established, they are not the cheapest, this is also easily established.
If every company suddenly became a premium seller because it raised prices than every company would be a premium seller.
Talk about implying things!. Chinese labor is cheap, full stop. The poor and low quality due to being Chinese is something you decided to add by yourself.
Some years ago I had to do some research on brands and counterfeiting and found that the biggest problem luxury brands had was when they changed suppliers and the former supplier kept on manufacturing the handbags, purses, without authorization, putting the same product on the market at the real manufacturing cost. So my comment was related to that, due to having the regular markets closed on trademark reasons they go to outlets, fleamarkets and other places where the consumer can buy almost the same product for a fraction of the price. I was not dishing against the factories.
My bad. I get the cheap chinese stealin our jobs thing a lot, and it grates.
No problem there. Some times I think that everybody is in a similar PoV to mine and don´t explain myself enough.
M.
Edit: This thread from the modeling forums is the one that makes me think that GW might be trying for price segmentation.
DeathGod wrote:
But if you just buy a toy WWII tank, you'll be that guy who just bought a toy WWII tank for $9.95 at the Hobby Depot discount bin. And nobody wants to be THAT guy.
Edit: All that being said, I totally advocate using historical model kits to rip off parts from. For example, I'm using a Tamiya 1:35 STuG kit to rip off the tracks and steel road wheels from to give my russes a better, more realistic look. Just don't be the guy who buys a $15 tank kit and throws it down on the table...
If DeathGod´s sentiment is the exception rather than the rule I´m on the wrong here, but some local tendencies make me think that his feelings are more widespread than what I would wish. But of course I live on Japan the Land of the Branding so I´m more than a little bit biased.
Cryonicleech wrote:I'm no expert, but I feel that GW could bring down prices a tad.
They certainly could. But that's not the issue.
The question that Luna is asking, as outlined by the linked definition, is whether GW's prices are as high as they are to encourage their perception as a quality product.
Premium Pricing relies on people choosing an expensive product over a cheaper one on the assumption that the expensive one should be better.
That's not what GW are about at all. They price as they do because they can, not because they think that being more expensive improves the perception of their product.
And it's not even really that.
This thread came about after a discussion where she brought up the notion that Games Workshop charges the prices on their models due to the fact that you're "paying for both a hobby AND a game."
Kan , just alittle bit more you need to know about me.
My threads are standalone , just because they seem to relate to other issues that doesnt mean they are.
I'll appreciate you not mixing them together , sounds fair to you?
LunaHound wrote:
Are they ? or arnt they? If possible after your vote , give a brief explanation to why .
Based on the powers of Wikki-Wikki.
"Premium pricing is the practice of keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price.[1] The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation or represent exceptional quality and distinction."- Wikki def.
To the average minion, consumer, and unknowing, unwashed masses- They are pimping a product at thier idea of a profit.
YOU pay for it, so there is no reason to lower it. Remember who these guys are? If you don't know about them, you might take a few minutes to go over to thier investor site, look up some alternative information about them, and dig into about three or four more references and find out a little about who you are dealing with.
To even ask this question, though....
Luna, has anyone ever told you not to look to hard, YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND?
All I have to do is look at the 118 ml squeeze-bottle of Games Workshop PVA glue, and know that I can buy a quart of the exact same PVA glue from a hardware store for a lower price, to realize that Games Workshop is employing the premium pricing strategy.
Manchu wrote:@Grot 6: Could you quote (with page citation) that annual report as indicating GW employs the premium pricing strategy?
Basicly, the language is all through the report.
Here is a beginning, and a couple of snippits from a couple of the first pages.
" “'May you live in interesting times' is also meant to be a curse, and you can see why, if you want to live a quiet and untroubled life. Personally, I don't, so for me the fact we have all been living in 'interesting times' for the last couple of years has been just that: really interesting. It depends on what you read, or course, but there is no shortage of people prepared to write that 'capitalism is dead' or some other similar tosh. I've always been mildly baffled by the notion that there is, somewhere, an alternative to capitalism. The field has been muddied by Marx capitalizing the word as Capitalism, and demonising it with mid-nineteenth century fears of mass revolution, international hunger and poverty. It has since somehow become the cause of all the world's wrongs and I'm sure if you search diligently enough amongst the barmier reaches of the internet you'll find it is responsible for hurricanes in the Caribbean, flooding in Tewkesbury,measles, Mexican flu and the failure of Leeds United to get promoted again. Capitalism is another way of saying we make things and sell them at a profit and it will never end.
Those who say(hope?) capitalism is dead would serve us all better by working to ensure venality, cupidity and certifiable stupidity were dead instead. Sadly they are not. It isn't capitalism that's the problem it's people's bad behaviour. That is what we should rail against, not the honest human need to better ourselves.
A fascinating side effect of our recent woes has been the resurrection of the periodic 'Warren Buffet has lost the plot' stories. Buffet has no more lost the plot than those who criticise him have found it. There is no 'plot'. There is only an accumulation over a long time of good decision taking outnumbering bad. If your chairman has a guiding star it is that one. I cannot make good decisions all the time, but if I am to remain useful to you I'd better make a lot more good ones than bad ones. Just like Warren Buffet.
Recently our record on good decisions has been better. Our profits, year on year, have improved a lot; the underlying growth in our core business is more modest. Nevertheless it is there. Just as importantly, this result, together with effective asset management, has enabled us to reduce borrowings significantly, therefore further strengthening GamesWorkshop’s balance sheet.”
- GW chairmans Preamble ( Sets the tone for the rest of the report.)
“'May you find what you are looking for' is intended as a cautionary admonition not to look for too much, nor to look forthat which you do not fully understand. To make what we wish for here at GW sensible and achievable we have focused on doing what we always have done well better, and stopped doing all the other things. By 'better' we mean growing thesales in the business but making sure the cost base works even at last year's low sales numbers. So you could say we have found a bit of what we are looking for and it isn't cursed.
Other things we have found are: better trade terms - designed to help those who make the serious commitment of having a real store where they can talk to customers and explain how our games work and teach modelling and painting; a more sustainable store opening model - smaller, cheaper stores that open when we want them to be (not mall operators) and can be run by just one member of staff if need be; higher prices - enabling us to respond when costs increase dramatically as the price of tin did last summer; and, very importantly, a better balance between the price of our plastic miniatures and our metal ones - for similar models prices ought to be similar and not less 'because they are plastic'.”(Chairmen’s Preamble direct quote about sales.)
“There are no silver bullets for growing sales at Games Workshop. It requires a consistent focus on the basics of recruiting new hobbyists through our Hobby centres and using our games to teach them how to buy, build, paint and collect ever larger armies of miniatures. We retain these hobbyists as customers by releasing fantastic new products and running exciting activities to keep everyone engaged in the Hobby. By growing our active customer base in this way, our sales to independent retailers (trade) and direct businesses benefit as well. It is simple to say, but hard to do, which is why it all comes down to the strength of our management teams in each sales business and in particular the quality of our managers in each Hobby centre.”
- (Business review quote, Pdg. 5)
The last few years have reminded us how important it is to be cost conscious and we have made good progress in restoring this cost saving culture across the business. We have reduced staffing levels in our Hobby centres by adjusting opening hours to better reflect when our hobbyists are available to play. We have limited our property cost increases by better planned rent negotiations and relocations to lower cost premises when possible. Our new web store has improved efficiency in processing orders and allowed us to slim down our direct sales teams. We also closed our Canadian office and relocated our Italian office to more modest premises outside Rome.Investment has been focused on two key drivers of performance, opening more Hobby centres, which increased from 334to 355, and developing more plastic injection tools. These two areas will remain the focus of future investment. Other non-essential capital expenditure has been cut back. In addition, we have implemented automatic stock replenishment and streamlined product ranges into our UK and North American Hobby centres to improve our control of working capital. This is being rolled out into Europe next year.
(-Buisness Review, Pdg. 5)
I could go on and on, but You can take from it what you want to. I take from it that they have a thorough knowledge of what they are doing, have not only the intention to increase the prices, but to continue to do so through next quarter, and that they will continue to do so.
The product is overhyped. The numbers are overhyped. The justification is overhyped.
I provided the report. Go ahead and read through and you can either read it, or not. Throughout the report, it basicly over hypes the product, convinces the reader that it is a resonable price, and then goes to show how they have increased and overpriced the product to justify thier sales numbers.
fellblade wrote:All I have to do is look at the 118 ml squeeze-bottle of Games Workshop PVA glue, and know that I can buy a quart of the exact same PVA glue from a hardware store for a lower price, to realize that Games Workshop is employing the premium pricing strategy.
I don't think GW's hobby supplies are targeting the premium market so much as the convenience market.
People (by and large) don't buy GW glue because they think it's any better than other glues on the market. They buy GW glue because they're buying GW models, and buy the glue while they're there rather than going somewhere else.
Whilst it's true that there are some people who think that GW's hobby stuff is superior, or 'better' for use with GW models (particularly amongst younger customers, who are more likely to swallow it when a staff member tells them that GW glue is 'specially formulated' to be better with their models) I would put that down more to the perception that GW, as a hobby company that makes great miniatures, would know what they are doing when it comes to tools, glues and paints... but that perception would still be there is GW hobby supplies were reasonably priced. It's not a result of them being expensive, which is what the premium pricing mould is about.
@Grot 6: Thanks for responding. I asked because I had also read that document when it was posted on dakka sometime back and could not recall seeing anything that led me to believe GW was using a premium cost strategy as Luna seems to believe. It seems that you and I ended up coming to different conclusions from our readings.
@fellblade: Insaniak has made pretty much the same point as I was going to: you pay more for less PVA for the convenience of getting it from the same supplier as your models and basing materials (in the case of people who one-stop shop at GW) in a manageable quantity. I would just add, as you probably already know from shopping at WalMart or Costco as opposed to a mom'n'pop drugstore or hardware store, selling a smaller amount of goods or a smaller amount of a certain good generally makes your cost per unit go up.
Once again (although for the first time in this thread) I'd like to point out that GW may have an overarching sales strategy but that does not mean they make the same kind of profits off of every type of product. I would be very, very surprised to learn that there is a larger mark-up on Citadel hobby supplies than GW models. I would be very surprised if GW did not make most of its money from the sale of models. And I think it is clear that GW does not employ the premium pricing strategy as it has been defined in this thread.
LunaHound wrote:Am i the only one that still remember GW saying "metal are always more expensive because plastic is cheaper to produce"?
I don't recall them ever saying that metals are 'always' more expensive.
They cited cost of production as a reason that plastics could be cheaper, when they first started producing single-part plastic models in regiment or squad boxes. And when you're talking about single-part metal models vs single-part plastic models, that's certainly true, provided that the volume of sales is there to warrant to initial tooling cost of the plastics.
When you start going from single-part metal models to 9- or 10-part plastics, it's not so clear cut.
(And no, that's not 'justifying' the cost of GW's kits. Just pointing out that comparing metals to plastics isn't as simple as saying 'this one's metal, and that one's plastic, so should be cheaper...')
LunaHound wrote:Am i the only one that still remember GW saying "metal are always more expensive because plastic is cheaper to produce"?
Thanks to rises in the price of tin, a major component of GW's metal models, plastic is a cheaper material for them as a manufacturer. To which you will protest, "But plastic Terminators still cost $50." To which I will respond, "Yes, but they'd be at least $75 if they were still made of metal."
LunaHound wrote:Am i the only one that still remember GW saying "metal are always more expensive because plastic is cheaper to produce"?
Thanks to rises in the price of tin, a major component of GW's metal models, plastic is a cheaper material for them as a manufacturer. To which you will protest, "But plastic Terminators still cost $50." To which I will respond, "Yes, but they'd be at least $75 if they were still made of metal."
Which you'll also agree with me that they at most $3 of materials to produce right? ( of course we have to still factor in the machinery used )
but just so we are on the same page that you dont think they are using platinum to cast the termies
Manchu wrote:Thanks to rises in the price of tin, a major component of GW's metal models, plastic is a cheaper material for them as a manufacturer. To which you will protest, "But plastic Terminators still cost $50." To which I will respond, "Yes, but they'd be at least $75 if they were still made of metal."
Cost of materials is a negligible percentage of the total cost of the figure (I think it was mentioned as being about 3% in GW's financials a couple of years ago)... so the actual material cost really has very little bearing on the price difference between metals and plastics.
@insaniak: Cost of materials against total cost of business operation is a poor way to measure material price fluctation effect on the business. Also, finished goods are worth more in inventory than materials. I'm not sure what kind of figure you're drawing from so I can't comment much further except to say that cost of materials does actually effect GW's costs in a way that consumers eventually feel. Do costs revert back after material costs decrease or stabilize? Of course not.
From the 2009 report Grot 6 was quoting from:
Our gross margin strengthened in the second half as we benefited from the metal price increase that we implemented in the autumn and further cost reductions in our manufacturing and supply chain. Raw material prices have returned to more normal levels in the second half but we continue to invest in converting more of our range to plastic, both to improve the quality of the models and make us less sensitive to metal cost fluctuations.
But I see your main point. Are plastics going to reduce prices? NO because the plastic products are now superior to metal ones. GW will charge what the product is worth: namely, what the consumer will pay.
Manchu wrote:@Grot 6: Thanks for responding. I asked because I had also read that document when it was posted on dakka sometime back and could not recall seeing anything that led me to believe GW was using a premium cost strategy as Luna seems to believe. It seems that you and I ended up coming to different conclusions from our readings.
@fellblade: Insaniak has made pretty much the same point as I was going to: you pay more for less PVA for the convenience of getting it from the same supplier as your models and basing materials (in the case of people who one-stop shop at GW) in a manageable quantity. I would just add, as you probably already know from shopping at WalMart or Costco as opposed to a mom'n'pop drugstore or hardware store, selling a smaller amount of goods or a smaller amount of a certain good generally makes your cost per unit go up.
Once again (although for the first time in this thread) I'd like to point out that GW may have an overarching sales strategy but that does not mean they make the same kind of profits off of every type of product. I would be very, very surprised to learn that there is a larger mark-up on Citadel hobby supplies than GW models. I would be very surprised if GW did not make most of its money from the sale of models. And I think it is clear that GW does not employ the premium pricing strategy as it has been defined in this thread.
No sir, it is not clear.
They do in fact have a premium pricing policy.
Hobby materials, miniatures, hobby sessions that you pay to learn how to play, the Games Day tickets, Glue, Paint, Brushes, Lord of the Rings, Warhammer fantasy, books, Forgeworld products, the list goes on and on.
There have been threads here with posts from people claiming that the GW's employees have an indoctrination program that rewards sales, pushes and enforces a ruthless sales strategy similer to a used car sales mentality, there have been claims by some that they heard GW employees say that other products wouldn't work on the miniatures, and ther have been still others who have claimed that the sales staff and managers have in fact a premieum priceing strategy.
Along with that, everyone knows how the employees of these stores act. It is no secret about thier sales policy.
The name of the game is sales.
If not, then why arn't GW products being sold in Walmart, alongside Elmars, Gorrilla glue, or Testors?
If not, why are Redshirts claiming that other products shouldn't be used on the miniatures?
If not, then why is the chairman of the company claiming that Similar models ought to be priced similar and not less because they are plastic?
Seriously?
The claim was made years ago, before the GW miniatures were of the caliber that they are today that the plastics were going to be cheaper, period.
BEFORE, I say, because there was not a global recession, an increase in operating costs, and it was back in the days when GW went public and took on its excessive corperate restructuring.
NOW? No. Plastic is the new medium. They are getting out of the metals buisness, precisly BECAUSE it is expensive. They are cutting costs and doing what they HAVE to.
I honestly can't fault them for it, but I can fault them for the excessive corperate salery increases, perks, and BS that goes and cuts into the heart of this company's dog turd image and overt mentality of SELL MORE MINIS!!!!
I also fault them for running thier stores like crap, and thier crappy red shirts attitudes and mentality of... you guessed it, "Buy more minis!!!"
Manchu wrote:@insaniak: Cost of materials against total cost of business operation is a poor way to measure material price fluctation effect on the business.
I wasn't comparing it to total cost of business operation. I was pointing out that it's a reasonably insignificant component of the cost of the miniature... something Kirby pointed out when the cost of tin started to climb in the first place (I believe the original statement was something to the effect of: The cost of tin has risen by x amount, but as raw materials account for less than 3% of production costs, this has minimal effect.)
But I see your main point. Are plastics going to reduce prices? NO because the plastic products are now superior to metal ones.
More specifically, plastic did reduce prices, back when the plastic models were basic, single-part or at best 2- or 3-part minis designed with the express purpose of providing a cheaper alternative to metals.
Once the plastic kits started to increase in complexity, and started improving on the metals, the price rose accordingly.
I'd have to look at it for myself as it seems to contradict this report.
Yes, plastic models are now worth more than metal ones. It's counter intuitive until you remember how many people who have metal pieces in their armies are always clamoring for plastic ones.
Here it is, page 6 of the 2008 report:
Amongst the cost of production risks are those relating to input prices. The cost of raw materials, such as metal and plastic, represents no more than 5% of our sales and therefore we do not believe that the price volatility of these inputs represents a significant threat to our long-term profitability. In the short term our buying team continues to work to minimise these risks and the people in our manufacturing and supply functions continue to seek process efficiencies to offset any cost impact. However, the recent increases in the price of both metal and plastic have been significant, and we will take action to protect our gross margins.
Manchu wrote:@Grot 6: I see that you have a lot of negative things to say about GW but I do not see an argument that they are using premium pricing.
When was the last time that you were in a GW store?
When GW talks about "The Hobby", what are they talking specificly about?
When you go over to the GW wbsite, what is the overall emphisis on? What do you see all over the site?
Premium pricing at its best.
Or are you just going to tell me that it is slick advertising and everyone is a rube? That the language, content, discussions and subjects are not priced to the highest denominator? "All of your needs in one box!!!, " " You may not believe how good they are until you try them!" "... the list goes on and on.
They are marketing this product like a farrari.
As for an argument, I put it out there and it wasn't hard- I see it. Maybe its because I know how these guys think, maybe its because I've been around the block once or twice, and maybe it's because I read through thier information, and did some homework on them.
If you don't, then you don't.
If not, then go down to your local GW store and see how you get treated, almost when you walk in the door.
Comment a little on the prices, and see the reaction from the staff, or just hang out and watch Little Timmy come in with Mommy Mil... Dearest or Daddy Warbucks and see how they react.
They are marketing THE HOBBY and they are saying that there is nothing wrong with the pricing.
Premium Pricing =/= simply Charging the Highest Possible Price
Premium Pricing is charging a high price because you want that high price to be an advertisement for the superiority of your products.
Reading over GW's report, that doesn't seem to be what they're doing. They charge what they think the model is worth, which has some relationship to materials and production but which is mainly related to consumer behavior. That may end up being a high price but this, by itself, is not premium pricing.
I don't think any of us buy GW models because GW is such a fashionable namebrand and we want to be seen around the FLGS with GW models.
Cryonicleech wrote:I'm no expert, but I feel that GW could bring down prices a tad.
They certainly could. But that's not the issue.
The question that Luna is asking, as outlined by the linked definition, is whether GW's prices are as high as they are to encourage their perception as a quality product.
Premium Pricing relies on people choosing an expensive product over a cheaper one on the assumption that the expensive one should be better.
That's not what GW are about at all. They price as they do because they can, not because they think that being more expensive improves the perception of their product.
And it's not even really that.
This thread came about after a discussion where she brought up the notion that Games Workshop charges the prices on their models due to the fact that you're "paying for both a hobby AND a game."
Kan , just alittle bit more you need to know about me. My threads are standalone , just because they seem to relate to other issues that doesnt mean they are. I'll appreciate you not mixing them together , sounds fair to you?
Having been on the forum a while, and having eyes in my head... No, thats not true. At all. You bring threads together like they're sequels all the time.
I provided the report. Go ahead and read through and you can either read it, or not. Throughout the report, it basicly over hypes the product, convinces the reader that it is a resonable price, and then goes to show how they have increased and overpriced the product to justify thier sales numbers.
Having worked in retail all my life I think I can safely say that thats a completely typical report on the health of the business. It's hardly "Overhyped", listen to a sears seminar or the morning speech at a wallmart if you want overhyped. Like everything else in this thread this requires context, and without it it gives a false perception. Find a public business in the world that doesn't have similar language in their quarterlies. Hell, intel recently raved about increasing profit 875% recently and commented on how great its products are when all it did was no longer lose money over a quarter.
I do that, too, sometimes. A discussion will crop up in one thread but seems like it may need its own space. This thread is probably better here than providing life support for the latest paint/no paint debate.
ShumaGorath wrote:Having been on the forum a while, and having eyes in my head... No, thats not true. At all. You bring threads together like they're sequels all the time.
No , do not assume so much , because assumption spawns misunderstanding and general unpleasantness. Its the way of Chaos you heretic.
I know , you have lots of eyes , infinite amount too , again extra heretical ...
Of course they premuim price, what do you expect for official models and the convenience of equipment. GW are a big brand in wargaming and they exploit that dominance to be the cool kid. You can buy models from elsewhere to play warhammer, but if you want to be the cool kid with official stuff and allowed to play in GW stores then you need their models. You pay a premium for buying into the brand. Secondly, GW stores supply everything you need, glue and tools. You can go elsewhere and get it all much cheaper, but if you want to be a bit lazy, you pay for convenience. That's why their glue, drills and other bits and pieces are so much more expensive than the average retailing on the exact same pieces.
FOR SIMILAR MODELS OUGHT TO BE PRICED SIMILAR AND NOT LESS "BECAUSE THEY ARE PLASTIC"...
I don't think you are using the same definition that I am. People DO IN FACT play Warhammer and Warhammer40K BECAUSE OF the name brand.
"Premium pricing is the practice of keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price.[1] The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation or represent exceptional quality and distinction."- Wikki
And by the descussion of miniatures being priced? They are being marketed to Gamers based on a common denominator.
That you are buying top of the line, regardless of how much you have to pay.
Grot 6 wrote:People DO IN FACT play Warhammer and Warhammer40K BECAUSE OF the name brand.
Yes, indeed they do. But that automatically make it premium pricing.
GW games are expensive, but people buy them anyway because they are perceived to be good.
A Premium Priced product (according to the definition you just quoted) is bought because it is expensive, on the assumption that expensive = good.
So what it boils down to is whether or not people are perceiving GW games to be good because they are expensive and buying them as a result, or whether they are perceiving them to be good because of what they are and then buying them despite the price.
Grot 6 wrote:
They are marketing THE HOBBY and they are saying that there is nothing wrong with the pricing.
That's not premium pricing. Premium pricing would involve a deliberately high price vis a vis other, similar items manufactured by the same, or alternative corporation.
GW does not use a premium price strategy insofar as most of its miniatures are concerned. It does use premium pricing in its Forge World brand, and all of its 'official' hobby products.
I suppose you could argue that GW's models can be compared to other scale kits, but it seems to me that GW kits are sufficiently distinct as to represent a separate product.
This thread hilariously demonstrates, among other things, the lack of reading before posting. As anti-GW flame bait, however, it is not a good test case.
True but most of those votes came after Luna posted the definition. People must not even be reading to the third post and probably not even the first. Regardless of how leading a thread title might be, you'd think people could be bothered to read the first few posts before firing off their opinion . . . yes, I know, welcome to the internet.
yes and no.
there are examples of pricing that doesnt make any sense, and then again there are prices that seem reasonable. concidering what it costs GW to make plastics for instance, and the wide range of prices by compexity and weight, there is indications of 'hey this is cool bet we can get an extra 10€ out of it' but then again ther are examoles of standardized prices.
Grot 6 wrote:
They are marketing THE HOBBY and they are saying that there is nothing wrong with the pricing.
That's not premium pricing. Premium pricing would involve a deliberately high price vis a vis other, similar items manufactured by the same, or alternative corporation.
GW does not use a premium price strategy insofar as most of its miniatures are concerned. It does use premium pricing in its Forge World brand, and all of its 'official' hobby products.
I suppose you could argue that GW's models can be compared to other scale kits, but it seems to me that GW kits are sufficiently distinct as to represent a separate product.
That is premeum pricing, just not in the context that you wrote it and took one sentence out of my post and misconstrued it.
If you are going to do that, at least have the courtesy to post the whole thing and not twist what I wrote into something else entirely.
Put that sentence back where I wrote it and read it ALL the next time.
For premium pricing you have to be more expensive than your competition. They are not. They sell their models at or less than the cost of the vast majority of their competition. Get a scale model kit the size of a baneblade for 99$, you can get better and larger kits, but they are going to run you a pretty penny. Other direct competitors like privateer are equally as expensive, with almost no differentiation in pewter or plastic prices.
I think this was a vague question designed to elicit specific responses
It's, as they say, fungible. The problem is that their range is vast, and the answer varies from item to item. If you want to look at anything new that's been released in plastic, I'd say they both charge for and deliver a premium product - and clearly, the market can bear it.
I'm going with 'yes', based on the idea that Premimum Pricing is essentially the same as Willingness to Pay, an area that GW is increasingly exploring.
Nobody believes that it costs anywhere close to £150 to produce the Realm of Battle gameboard, but a lot of people (not me) have demonstrated a willingness to pay that much anyway.
Theres a good argument (from the statements in the annual report) for the pricing to be considered premium but at the same time its standard fare, including how GW market their product (Try selling budget toilet paper and unbranded household chemicals and branded jewellery, same techniques and tricks are used).
I do not think that it is premium priced, more that GW are pricing at what they think they can realistically achieve/get away with.
If GW Is premium price what is fair price in the minatures market? Rhetorical, this cannot be answered.
HI all.
Well I voted yes.
Simply becuse of the attitudes instilled in some GW customers.
I have had people refuse to play me because I had OOP minatures /other companies minatures.(They said they were NOT going to play someone without 'proper GW minatures'!
In my LFGS they HAD to stock GW brand scenery along side Railway Scenics range.
And some customers payed far more for GW branded stuff, simply because of the lable!
GW plc imply /infer thier products are superior,( and some store staff lie about the suitablilty of cheaper products.)And price them at 2 to 12 times the RRP of similar product.
fellblade wrote:All I have to do is look at the 118 ml squeeze-bottle of Games Workshop PVA glue, and know that I can buy a quart of the exact same PVA glue from a hardware store for a lower price, to realize that Games Workshop is employing the premium pricing strategy.
I don't think GW's hobby supplies are targeting the premium market so much as the convenience market.
People (by and large) don't buy GW glue because they think it's any better than other glues on the market. They buy GW glue because they're buying GW models, and buy the glue while they're there rather than going somewhere else.
Whilst it's true that there are some people who think that GW's hobby stuff is superior, or 'better' for use with GW models (particularly amongst younger customers, who are more likely to swallow it when a staff member tells them that GW glue is 'specially formulated' to be better with their models) I would put that down more to the perception that GW, as a hobby company that makes great miniatures, would know what they are doing when it comes to tools, glues and paints... but that perception would still be there is GW hobby supplies were reasonably priced. It's not a result of them being expensive, which is what the premium pricing mould is about.
I don't buy the 'convenience' argument. GW could easily sell their GW-branded PVA glue for a much lower price, and it would be just as much of a convenience to the customer.
GW premium prices against themselves. From the Space Wolf release, I can get 4 sprues worth of plastic to assemble a 10 man pack with plenty of left over bits for $35. For $50, I can get 3 sprues of plastics to form a 5 man pack of terminators with a smaller amount of bits left over.
Both kits were released at the same time, so the Space Wolf Pack set is not benefiting from some new manufacture technique. The plastic is the same, as far as I can tell from casual inspection.
The difference lies in a value that loses meaning without the gaming experience. Similar could be said of luxury items and their premium price.
Fellblade, what I think Insaniak means is that it is "convenience pricing" in that GW is trying to be a one stop shop. While you're buying sand and static grass, you could buy the PVA glue right in front of you or you could drive to home depot and buy it for cheaper there.
Just like buying candy on a whim at the gas station/convenience store, you could buy it in bulk for way cheaper elsewhere or you could pick it up right now.
Gas stations/convenience stores/GW feel that customers are willing to pay a higher rate for the "convenience" of buying that after-thought item on site rather than traveling elsewhere for it.
Grot 6 wrote:
That is premeum pricing, just not in the context that you wrote it and took one sentence out of my post and misconstrued it.
If you are going to do that, at least have the courtesy to post the whole thing and not twist what I wrote into something else entirely.
Put that sentence back where I wrote it and read it ALL the next time.
No it isn't. The rest of your post was nothing more than you repeatedly misapplying the term 'premium pricing' to a series of examples; none of which made much sense.
I didn't twist your words, you used them incorrectly.
Grot 6 wrote:
That is premeum pricing, just not in the context that you wrote it and took one sentence out of my post and misconstrued it.
If you are going to do that, at least have the courtesy to post the whole thing and not twist what I wrote into something else entirely.
Put that sentence back where I wrote it and read it ALL the next time.
No it isn't. The rest of your post was nothing more than you repeatedly misapplying the term 'premium pricing' to a series of examples; none of which made much sense.
I didn't twist your words, you used them incorrectly.
Pfft. I can see how this is going to go...
Nice try, what did that take you to think of as a retort, maybe a whole two seconds?
I am using the Wikki term. Maybe you have another? My examples are Real, maybe you can show me where they ARE NOT? Go on then...
Show me how GWis not pricing thier products by, "keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price.[1] The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation or represent exceptional quality and distinction."
And for a second time, don't cut and paste a post to make yourself look clever when your not even discussing the topic at hand.
TheFirstBorn wrote:Hey grot, maybe in the real world your opinion isnt always right?
Maybe, maybe not.
But the real question is how are those 50.00 terminators doing for you? Plastic? Only 5 for 50.00? But they are some heavy hitters, so they must be worth it!!!
My line in the sand comes when people take my post and change it around to try to make it into something else entirely.
Kinda like-
" Hey grot, maybe on the internet your opinion is always right! " (You see what I mean?)
On that note, I take my leave from this one.
I'm not too proud to say Sorry if it got heated. Sorry if you got offended, and Sorry if my point was misconstrued.
I'll step back off of this one and try to see it from another way, because maybe I'm the one missing something about Wikki's definition.
^ But people are not buying the Terminators "because they are $50, so that must mean they are good" (= premium pricing).
They are buying the Terminators because they are good in the opinion of the buyer, and they happen to cost $50, which might be rediculous but they are still willing to spend it (= not premium pricing).
There is a subtle difference.
As far as the miniatures go I do not think GW is using premium pricing, but for some of the tools and other items it can at least be argued.
For example take the GW plastic cutters, priced 12,50 (euro). I bought similar cutters at a hardware store for 4,95 and they work great.
So does GW put that price tag on their Citadel cutters with the intention to make customers think "these are 12,50 and named Citadel, so they must be better than the 4,95 ones" ?
Or do they just put that price tag on and think "let us put these in our stores and see if these fools are too lazy to go to another store to buy a cheaper alternative" ?
I agree with you point TBD if not your precise logic. People are not buying Terminators because they alone are a good product. People are buying them because they want to use them in their SM army. They're doing this because they think 40k is a good line of products generally (i.e., they have or are building an SM army). There has still been no convincing example of GW using premium pricing. The closest we've seen is the talk about their PVC glue but that could be explained by the fact that they are selling small quantities and so forfeiting bulk discounts.
But the real question is how are those 50.00 terminators doing for you? Plastic? Only 5 for 50.00? But they are some heavy hitters, so they must be worth it!!!
Diamonds have no inherent worth and are actually relatively common. Yet they are some of the most expensive things you can find in the ground. Cost and worth are not natural concepts, they are constructs.
Show me how GW is not pricing thier products by, "keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price.[1]
Sure, I'll do it.
49.50$
49.99$
One is three times the size of the other and comes with enough parts spare to practically make another model. The other comes with a trading card. Prices are entirely relative to the field of competition. Cost and worth is inherent to that which people are willing to spend. To be premium GW has to be MORE expensive than it's competition. It is not.
LunaHound wrote:@The people claiming PP and Infinity is just as expensive as GW , one has to take into consideration who set the pricing standard that way first.
No, they really don't as it has absolutely no bearing on the conversation.
LunaHound wrote:@The people claiming PP and Infinity is just as expensive as GW , one has to take into consideration who set the pricing standard that way first.
No, they really don't as it has absolutely no bearing on the conversation.
Well for someone that tells me i need lessons on economics , i'll let you read this
and figure out why it exactly has everything to do with the conversation.
Im sure you'll find this interesting as its in english this time.
Companies that are able to use price setting techniques to align pricing with customers’ willingness to pay are naturally in a better position to compete for business. Unfortunately, most companies don’t have the means to predict how customers or segments will respond to certain prices or policies. By default, business managers resort to using general pricing methodologies such as cost-plus or competitive matching. While these approaches can be effective in certain situations, applying them across the entire portfolio will result in sub-optimal returns.
And a few side questions to go along.
When PP first started out , pricing their products , do you think they are so confident in their game that they'll price them that high?
Of course they arnt that confident , yet the price is still set that high. What do you think gave them the confidence to do so?
Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.
You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.
ShumaGorath wrote:Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.
You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.
Actually its not backwards as you are the one that tried to validate GW's pricing by comparing it with PP's warjack.
Im simply showing you that it is infact important to determine , whether PP was merely setting a price after GW's pricing standard.
Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.
Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.
TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...
Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.
ShumaGorath wrote:Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.
You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.
Actually its not backwards as you are the one that tried to validate GW's pricing by comparing it with PP's warjack.
Im simply showing you that it is infact important to determine , whether PP was merely setting a price after GW's pricing standard.
Well firstly the thunderhead is just overpriced. The trygon is three times its size and has enough spare parts to outfit several other monstrous creatures. Secondly privateer was NEVER less expensive. Warjacks were (WERE) marginally less expensive than dreadnoughts and the infantry was always much more expensive per model. Secondly it still have no relative bearing. A cost increase does not imply premium pricing. Premium pricing is an increase for the sake of seeming expensive and thus higher quality. Games workshop has given every indication that its pricing scheme is exactly what you quoted, an exploration into seeing what the upper limit of their audience will pay in an attempt to recover from increased operating costs and lower volume being sold. To be premium it would need to be effectively more expensive, and it is not. It is the same. It is less expensive than infinity. It was less expensive than confrontation. It is still less expensive than gundam models, macross boats, world war two figures, and model wooden boats.
It's just not premium priced. Expensive? Yes. But not premium priced.
ShumaGorath wrote:Where exactly in that paragraph is a price increase for maximum profitability while maintaining an alignment with a customers upper willingness to pay also an indicator of premium pricing? Even then, even if it were, games workshop would not be premium because they have several low end entry products which heavily undercut the competition and themselves while they are simultaneously only the middle ground for model pricing within the field. They are not premium pricing by any definition.
You formed an opinion now you're looking for facts to back it up. It's backwards.
Actually its not backwards as you are the one that tried to validate GW's pricing by comparing it with PP's warjack.
Im simply showing you that it is infact important to determine , whether PP was merely setting a price after GW's pricing standard.
Well firstly the thunderhead is just overpriced. The trygon is three times its size and has enough spare parts to outfit several other monstrous creatures. Secondly privateer was NEVER less expensive. Warjacks were (WERE) marginally less expensive than dreadnoughts and the infantry was always much more expensive per model. Secondly it still have no relative bearing. A cost increase does not imply premium pricing. Premium pricing is an increase for the sake of seeming expensive and thus higher quality. Games workshop has given every indication that its pricing scheme is exactly what you quoted, an exploration into seeing what the upper limit of their audience will pay in an attempt to recover from increased operating costs and lower volume being sold. To be premium it would need to be effectively more expensive, and it is not. It is the same. It is less expensive than infinity. It was less expensive than confrontation. It is still less expensive than gundam models, macross boats, world war two figures, and model wooden boats.
It's just not premium priced. Expensive? Yes. But not premium priced.
Forgive me for been confused atm Shuma , but i sort of forgot the reason for you comparing Trygon to that Warjack , could you tell me again?
Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.
TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...
Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.
Please. Don't pretend like it's just you. I dislike ignorance. I dislike opinions held in ignorance. I dislike ignorant opinions. And I certainly dislike it when 80 ignorant people gather together to ignorantly complain in a contextless poll about how they think that games workshop is overpriced. A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A majority of this thread doesn't know what premium pricing is. That doesn't mean games workshop does it.
What's ironic?
Shuma using the statistics from an ill-informed populace in a thread where most of the polling/posts don't know what the topic at hand actually is?
I think shuma is capable of speaking for himself kan, and if you can proof that the people that voted doesnt actually know what they are voting for , i'll take that into consideration , until then , its just speculation.
Whats ironic? its just something he said to me yesterday , you really not need to get involved with this kan.
ShumaGorath wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:A majority of Americans can't find the middleast on a map. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I might be rude to bring this up (but i feel like i should because its so recent ) , but do you realize the extreme irony of this sentence?
No, go ahead, enlighten me.
Could we discuss / answer things in order its been brought up? much appreciated.
I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon
Whether or not GW has set a price standard that PP follows has nothing to do with whether or not GW uses premium pricing. Kanluwen is correct to point out that this poll does not prove anything about GW using premium pricing. It proves that 80/106 do not know what premium pricing is. I would reiterate that it also proves most people respond to threads without bothering to read them or think about them.
...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.
That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.
Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.
LunaHound wrote:I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon
As already explained, premium pricing means raising prices above competitors in order that one's product will be thought of as superior because it is more expensive. Shuman points out that GW's products are not more expensive than PP's, it's competitor. Therefore, he says GW does not use premium pricing.
Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.
TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...
Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.
Shuma acts that way in nearly all of his conversations so I wouldn't take it personally.
Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.
That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.
Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.
All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?
Still awaiting shuma's answer.
Neconilis wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
Hawkins wrote:Well Luna, aside from the position that shama has so agressively tried to defend , look at the vote count for your answer. 80 out of 106 vote yes they 'think' GW is. there is your answer.
TBH Hawkins , im really not interested in debunking what people defend , nor do i ever find myself to be right all the time.
Im just curious to why is shuma so aggressive towards me in discussions. I dont know if its the nature on how discussion goes , or there is something about me that...
Contrary to what many people believe , this thread is not an attempt to flame / troll GW as some have already msged me.
I simply want to see how the different types of GW customer ( including myself ) view GW.
Shuma acts that way in nearly all of his conversations so I wouldn't take it personally.
Probably , thats why i gave him the benefit of the doubt ( see in red )
Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.
Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.
That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.
Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.
All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?
Still awaiting shuma's answer.
So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?
It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.
Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.
That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.
Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.
All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?
Still awaiting shuma's answer.
So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?
It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.
Burden to proof what? Its a thread asking for people's opinion on GW .
must you assume for everything there needs to be 2 sides debating? You know there are people
that sits in middle and see whats going on without feeling the need to claw each others throat out.
Maybe the "why do you have a problem with me" discussions should happen via PM and the "why do you think GW uses premium pricing" discussion should happen here.
I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon
Well for premium pricing to be established a comparative increase in prices must be maintained. While games workshop can raise prices, unless they are being sold at those advanced prices consistently, and unless those advanced prices are maintained over the competition then they are not premium priced. Having an expensive product does not define a premium pricing strategy. For that to happen you need to be moreexpensive than the median average within the field of competition. All computers are expensive, but while a dell may be 1,200 dollars Dell as a company does not engage in premium pricing, they simply sell an expensive product. Much the same since games workshops prices do not advance above its competitors they are not premium priced. It is less expensive than Infinity, it is on equal footing with privateer (and always has been), it was more expensive than confrontation when they competed. It is arguably more expensive than flames of war, was more expensive than heroclix, maintains a higher price than boxed tablegames like Settlers, all the while being less expensive than big gundam kits, model trains, historical models, and model boats. They are a company that sits well in the middle ground.
A more apt comparison would be between a space marine ven dread at 50$ alongside the thunderhead at the same cost.
Manchu wrote:Maybe the "why do you have a problem with me" discussions should happen via PM and the "why do you think GW uses premium pricing" discussion should happen here.
There are no problem here , still awaiting shuma's answer to question make posts ago.
No need to derail this Manchu and Kan , im not going to go rabid this time , never again.
ShumaGorath wrote:
I would still like to know the reason and purpose for you comparing PP Warjack to GW Trygon
Well for premium pricing to be established a comparative increase in prices must be maintained. While games workshop can raise prices, unless they are being sold at those advanced prices consistently, and unless those advanced prices are maintained over the competition then they are not premium priced. Having an expensive product does not define a premium pricing strategy. For that to happen you need to be moreexpensive than the median average within the field of competition. All computers are expensive, but while a dell maybe be 1,200 dollars Dell as a company does not engage in premium pricing, they simply sell an expensive product. Much the same since games workshops prices do not advance above its competitors it is not premium priced. It is less expensive than Infinity, it is on equal footing with privateer (and always has been), it was more expensive than confrontation when they competed. It is arguably more expensive than flames of war, was more expensive than heroclic, maintains a higher price than boxed tablegames like Settlers, all the while being less expensive than big gundam kits, model trains, historical models, and model boats. They are a company that sits well in the middle ground.
A more apt comparison would be between a space marine ven dread at 50$ alongside the thunderhead at the same cost.
Thanks for addressing that shuma , so basically you are saying ,
if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?
Kanluwen wrote:...Have you even READ this thread? Most of the posts have been people citing things from GW's financial reports that say nothing more than Games Workshop is testing what the market will support.
That is, as has been said, NOT premium pricing. That's simply a high price point for a product.
Once again:
Premium pricing implies that they rely EXCLUSIVELY on their company name to sell things.
@ Lunahound.
All that tells me is around 5 people doesnt.
Whether the rest of the 75 knows or not only heaven knows , or , do you know if they know?
Still awaiting shuma's answer.
So where's your proof that the other 75 do know what they're voting for?
It's YOUR poll. It's YOUR statement that everyone is well-informed and knows exactly what you're talking about.
Burden of evidence is on the prosecution there.
Burden to proof what? Its a thread asking for people's opinion on GW .
must you assume for everything there needs to be 2 sides debating? You know there are people
that sits in middle and see whats going on without feeling the need to claw each others throat out.
It's a thread asking for people's opinion on Games Workshop's PRICING STRATEGY .
Not their company aspects, or even the company itself. You're asking if they employ a specific pricing strategy, which is in fact(if true) employed by virtually every other company in the tabletop wargaming hobby.
And as for the burden of proof aspect--It is YOUR burden to prove to me that your 80 "Yes!" votes aren't the results of ill-informed malcontents misunderstanding the idea of premium pricing.
I am not trying to derail your thread. I'm trying to get it back on track. That's why I've been talking about premium pricing and not about other posters being aggressive.
Manchu wrote:I am not trying to derail your thread. I'm trying to get it back on track. That's why I've been talking about premium pricing and not about other posters being aggressive.
The thread is back because shuma is replying , i have been awaiting for his reply all this time.
Thank you for your effort though.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure noone's even being aggressive or making personal attacks, outside of the validity of the poll's results.
No of course not , why do you think i like shuma ?
where is this personal attack comming from kan? i dont see them
@Kanluwen: I agree with you about the (in)validity of this poll but TBH I cannot think of any way to prove that the voters did understand the definition of premium pricing. If there was a poll that asked "Is the Earth round? Y/N" and 80% of the respondents answered "no" how could you prove that they understood the terms "round" or "Earth"?
if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?
Actually I said that they competed nicely and fairly evenly, all the while being more expensive than clix games and flames of war while being less expensive than traditional model kits and more esoteric foreign customs like gundams or limited run kits.
( if yes , i'll get to the 2nd part )
I knew from the time you asked why I used the comparison you were attempting to set me up for a second followup question. Just try and make sure it actually references what I have said, rather than what you are trying to imply I have said.
Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.
It's simply how I respond when I feel it necessary. It's nothing against you specifically, I combat opinions and statements, not people. Were all just text on a screen here.
if GW is really setting premium pricing , why is warjack more expensive?
Actually I said that they competed nicely and fairly evenly, all the while being more expensive than clix games and flames of war while being less expensive than traditional model kits and more esoteric foreign customs like gundams or limited run kits.
( if yes , i'll get to the 2nd part )
I knew from the time you asked why I used the comparison you were attempting to set me up for a second followup question. Just try and make sure it actually references what I have said, rather than what you are trying to imply I have said.
Its funny , as aggressive as he sounds , i like shuma , i even made him an awesome face last year.
It's simply how I respond when I feel it necessary. It's nothing against you specifically, I combat opinions and statements, not people. Were all just text on a screen here.
No shuma , there is no "set ups" its easier for me to ask and reply bit by bit because past experiences i have find people misinterpret my sentence on purpose (granted its my own fault that i cannot present
long well written statements , for this i do acknowledge and apologize sincerely ) to the point that its impossible to back track and clear up the misunderstanding.
This way , we are 100% sure what each other is talking about , sounds fair? No set up , no tricks?
K so , basically what i wanted to say , to the PP you mentioned earlier , why i dont think its fair to use PP to compare GW's pricings
Say if GW is charging premium pricing
PP then follows charges similar pricing for similar products.
GW wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium.
Because customers are already at the threshold.
What? This isn't about "fairness between Privateer Press and Games Workshop's pricings". This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
The proof we've got so far:
Fact:
Games Workshop's prices are not out of line compared to Privateer Press(their closest competitor).
Fact:
No evidence can be brought forward showing that Games Workshop prices their stuff outside of anything other than what people will pay for it.
How is this hard to understand?
Overpricing != Premium Pricing.
W wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium. Because customers are already at the threshold.
Then they aren't premium priced. They can't be a premium product just by wanting to be. Without a consistently higher price point than their direct competition they simply aren't premium priced. They are expensive certainly. Far more than they should be in my opinion, but thats simply not what premium pricing is.
This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
It's a fair point. Loius Vuitton purses or Sony TVs are only going to be so expensive if middle-class Americans are going to buy them. But the counter argument, as Shuma already seems to have indicated, is that GW's current prices are in line with their prices from before WM/H were significant competitors: that is, they were higher than some miniatures and less than others.
GW has always operated on the basis of the denial of their competition. They practically pretend their competition doesn't exist. They talk about "the Games Workshop Hobby." They don't go to industry events like GAMA or GenCon.
You can't pretend your competition doesn't exist and then also try to stir people into believing that because you're priced higher than they, your product must be better. Better than whom?
Premium pricing is a specific thing. It doesn't just mean "high prices". Shuma's example of the Thunderhead and the Trygon perfectly illustrates that GW is not pricing their product much higher than PP in order to give the impression that their product is worth more.
You can't do that and simultaneously pretend your competitors don't exist.
I believe Forge World functions using the premium pricing strategy. In this case, they sell things at a premium price over the regular citadel miniatures offering. People actually do value Forge World stuff more because of the cost of getting it. It has some serious nerd chic much like paying more for a designer handbag.
frozenwastes wrote:GW has always operated on the basis of the denial of their competition. They practically pretend their competition doesn't exist. They talk about "the Games Workshop Hobby." They don't go to industry events like GAMA or GenCon.
You can't pretend your competition doesn't exist and then also try to stir people into believing that because you're priced higher than they, your product must be better. Better than whom?
Premium pricing is a specific thing. It doesn't just mean "high prices". Shuma's example of the Thunderhead and the Trygon perfectly illustrates that GW is not pricing their product much higher than PP in order to give the impression that their product is worth more.
You can't do that and simultaneously pretend your competitors don't exist.
I believe Forge World functions using the premium pricing strategy. In this case, they sell things at a premium price over the regular citadel miniatures offering. People actually do value Forge World stuff more because of the cost of getting it. It has some serious nerd chic much like paying more for a designer handbag.
Yep. Buying a Forge World kit is like buying a Master Grade kit or a limited edition video game.
You're shelling out more for a higher expectation of quality.
Kanluwen wrote:What? This isn't about "fairness between Privateer Press and Games Workshop's pricings". This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
The proof we've got so far:
Fact:
Games Workshop's prices are not out of line compared to Privateer Press(their closest competitor).
Fact:
No evidence can be brought forward showing that Games Workshop prices their stuff outside of anything other than what people will pay for it.
How is this hard to understand?
Overpricing != Premium Pricing.
Lol i dont even understand your point anymore kan .
Who ever said anything about price scams and calling GW price not fair?
It's a fair point. Loius Vuitton purses or Sony TVs are only going to be so expensive if middle-class Americans are going to buy them.
Sony is not a premium seller. Bang and ollafson is. Sony is just on the higher end of general consumer electronics. Brands like Haier and Vizio are bargain brands, their existence does not necessarily imply that sony overprices (indeed, their profit margins are not particularly high. They make and sell expensive tv's, they just don't sell regular tv's expensively).
I believe Forge World functions using the premium pricing strategy. In this case, they sell things at a premium price over the regular citadel miniatures offering. People actually do value Forge World stuff more because of the cost of getting it. It has some serious nerd chic much like paying more for a designer handbag.
I would want to see forge worlds operating costs before making any assumption about their business model. Custom high quality small scale resin casting is not cheap to do.
Kanluwen wrote:What? This isn't about "fairness between Privateer Press and Games Workshop's pricings". This is about Games Workshop utilizing a price scam.
The proof we've got so far:
Fact:
Games Workshop's prices are not out of line compared to Privateer Press(their closest competitor).
Fact:
No evidence can be brought forward showing that Games Workshop prices their stuff outside of anything other than what people will pay for it.
How is this hard to understand?
Overpricing != Premium Pricing.
Lol i dont even understand your point anymore kan .
Who ever said anything about price scams and calling GW price not fair?
Do you even read what you post anymore?
Lunahound wrote:No shuma , there is no "set ups" its easier for me to ask and reply bit by bit because past experiences i have find people misinterpret my sentence on purpose (granted its my own fault that i cannot present
long well written statements , for this i do acknowledge and apologize sincerely ) to the point that its impossible to back track and clear up the misunderstanding.
This way , we are 100% sure what each other is talking about , sounds fair? No set up , no tricks?
K so , basically what i wanted to say , to the PP you mentioned earlier , why i dont think its fair to use PP to compare GW's pricings
Say if GW is charging premium pricing
PP then follows charges similar pricing for similar products.
GW wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium.
Because customers are already at the threshold.
Lunahound wrote: K so , basically what i wanted to say , to the PP you mentioned earlier , why i dont think its fair to use PP to compare GW's pricings
Say if GW is charging premium pricing
PP then follows charges similar pricing for similar products.
GW wont automatically raise their price to make it "premium" just for the sake for been premium.
Because customers are already at the threshold.
LunaHound wrote: K so , basically what i wanted to say , to the PP you mentioned earlier , why i dont think its fair to use PP to compare GW's pricings
By the by, the general tone of the thread has been that "premium pricing is an evil, evil scam!111!!". Hence the "pricing scam" comment.
Kanluwen wrote:
Do you even read what you post anymore?
By the by, the general tone of the thread has been that "premium pricing is an evil, evil scam!111!!". Hence the "pricing scam" comment.
Actually , thats what you assume. And i dont think you should assume , nor do i like replying to people that assumes , because assumption
of how another person thinks is often wrong.
And to be specific , i dont think GW is evil , nor do i find their pricing to be evil.
Find me anywhere on forum that i think GW is behaving outside what a profit seeking company do , and i will get out of dakka forever.
If not dont put words in other's mouth. No one ever said anything about price scams.
Premium pricing is how you get morons to buy a $2000 hand bag. There's nothing nefarious about it.
I think it's pretty conclusive that GW does not engage in premium pricing.
Incidentally, I just finished putting together a GW WFB Woodelf Glade Rider. Cool miniature. I bought it to use in Warmachine/Hordes because the PP's cavalry are 4-5 times the cost of GW's.
Kanluwen wrote:
Do you even read what you post anymore?
By the by, the general tone of the thread has been that "premium pricing is an evil, evil scam!111!!". Hence the "pricing scam" comment.
Actually , thats what you assume. And i dont think you should assume , nor do i like replying to people that assumes , because assumption
of how another person thinks is often wrong.
And to be specific , i dont think GW is evil , nor do i find their pricing to be evil.
Find me anywhere on forum that i think GW is behaving outside what a profit seeking company do , and i will get out of dakka forever.
If not dont put words in other's mouth. No one ever said anything about price scams.
Nobody's putting words in your mouth. The "general tone" of a thread means the overall feeling that can be garnered from the posts. People feeling "ripped off" by their purchases from GW can easily be equated with a scam.
As for the other parts...
Anytime a new GW product is released. That's when you act as if they're behaving "outside what a profit seeking company would do".
frozenwastes wrote:Premium pricing is how you get morons to buy a $2000 hand bag.
Yeah, it's like that.
Except I wouldn't call their customers morons.
I'll say this one more time. I'm going to make it bold and I'll hit caps lock.
WORTH AND MATERIAL COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND MANUFACTURING COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND QUALITY ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH IS A PRODUCT OF COST, WANT, NEED, AND ENVY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS A 2000$ HANDBAG BECAUSE IT IS A 2000$ HANDBAG. IT IS WORTH ITTO THE PERSON SPENDING THE MONEY BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU GET TO HAVE. IT IS A VISIBLE FORM OF OSTENTATION AND SUPERIORITY. LUXURY ITEMS HAVE NO INHERENT VALUE BEYOND WHAT THEY ARE WORTH SOCIALLY OR PERSONALLY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS WORTH A HELL OF A LOT SOCIALLY.
Kanluwen wrote:
Nobody's putting words in your mouth. The "general tone" of a thread means the overall feeling that can be garnered from the posts. People feeling "ripped off" by their purchases from GW can easily be equated with a scam.
Perhaps thats how only you feel , atleast i dont feel that way. And i dont think its really relevant to rely so heavily on how you feel about the tone.
to the point that you need to protest so much about it.
Kanluwen wrote:As for the other parts... Anytime a new GW product is released. That's when you act as if they're behaving "outside what a profit seeking company would do".
Im sorry that you feel that way , but if all you have are your loyal feeling towards GW and cant stomach anything thats not a praise towards
GW product ( people voicing opinions to why they might not like this new product ) then , i dont know what actions i can do that will satisfy you.
But anyway, maybe we can get more traction off of talking about FW. Don't the stock per orders? That alone seems like it would make them more expensive. Low volume usually results in higher price even when there is a stable inventory.
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ShumaGorath wrote:WORTH AND MATERIAL COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND MANUFACTURING COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND QUALITY ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH IS A PRODUCT OF COST, WANT, NEED, AND ENVY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS A 2000$ HANDBAG BECAUSE IT IS A 2000$ HANDBAG. IT IS WORTH ITTO THE PERSON SPENDING THE MONEY BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU GET TO HAVE. IT IS A VISIBLE FORM OF OSTENTATION AND SUPERIORITY. LUXURY ITEMS HAVE NO INHERENT VALUE BEYOND WHAT THEY ARE WORTH SOCIALLY OR PERSONALLY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS WORTH A HELL OF A LOT SOCIALLY.
I KNOW ALL OF THIS ALREADY AND CANNOT FATHOM WHY YOU ARE WRITING IN ALL CAPS. THE SUBJECT IS WHETHER A $2000 HANDBAG IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF PREMIUM PRICING.
There's voicing an opinion about not liking the product--
And then there's ridiculous and pointless complaining.
Guess which one yours usually fall under, along with the vast majority of posts in those same threads?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:But anyway, maybe we can get more traction off of talking about FW. Don't the stock per orders? That alone seems like it would make them more expensive. Low volume usually results in higher price even when there is a stable inventory.
Forge World's actually a tricky subject to tackle, to be honest.
They keep a large stock of their more popular products(Krieg, Battlesuits, Elysians, SM/IG Conversion kits, stuff like that). Then you've got things like the Imperial Fortress and the Manta(which are cast to order).
And then even trickier, you've got the Titans and superheavy fliers--which fall somewhere between the more popular products and the cast to order.
Manchu wrote:But anyway, maybe we can get more traction off of talking about FW. Don't the stock per orders? That alone seems like it would make them more expensive. Low volume usually results in higher price even when there is a stable inventory.
High prices don't necessitate premium pricing though. I would argue that without seeing the profit margins they make in comparison to their own competition (custom modeling, historical, and pop culture modeling) we can't really venture a guess there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ShumaGorath wrote:WORTH AND MATERIAL COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND MANUFACTURING COST ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH AND QUALITY ARE NOT ENTWINED. WORTH IS A PRODUCT OF COST, WANT, NEED, AND ENVY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS A 2000$ HANDBAG BECAUSE IT IS A 2000$ HANDBAG. IT IS WORTH ITTO THE PERSON SPENDING THE MONEY BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU GET TO HAVE. IT IS A VISIBLE FORM OF OSTENTATION AND SUPERIORITY. LUXURY ITEMS HAVE NO INHERENT VALUE BEYOND WHAT THEY ARE WORTH SOCIALLY OR PERSONALLY. A 2000$ HANDBAG IS WORTH A HELL OF A LOT SOCIALLY.
I KNOW ALL OF THIS ALREADY AND CANNOT FATHOM WHY YOU ARE WRITING IN ALL CAPS. THE SUBJECT IS WHETHER A $2000 HANDBAG IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF PREMIUM PRICING.
SORRY, I GUESS I WAS RESPONDING MORE GENERALLY TO EVERYONE IN THE THREAD. DON'T TAKE THAT AS BEING DIRECTED AT YOU, I ACTUALLY REALIZED BEFORE POSTING THAT WE WERE IN AGREEMENT. I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE QUOTED SOMETHING ELSE.
Manchu wrote:But you still have far, far less DKOK available to sell than Cadians, right?
I don't know their exact stock levels, to be honest. And it's only gone downhill since Apocalypse and the Vraks book releases.
But yeah, I'd figure they keep maybe 100k of the DKOK kits in stock at any given time, and expect that level to last them a year versus the absurd amount of Cadians GW can probably pump out.
Kanluwen wrote:There's voicing an opinion about not liking the product--
And then there's ridiculous and pointless complaining.
Guess which one yours usually fall under, along with the vast majority of posts in those same threads?
Has there ever EVER been a single time i call GW out without giving a valid reason to
why i dont like that certain product?
Or is there ever EVER been a single time that i accuse GW of doing anything another profiting company doesnt do?
Like i said , you are only grasping at something that doesnt exist , and might i add you might be a tiny bit biased towards
giving the illusion to what you think you grasped.
Kanluwen wrote:There's voicing an opinion about not liking the product-- And then there's ridiculous and pointless complaining.
Guess which one yours usually fall under, along with the vast majority of posts in those same threads?
Has there ever EVER been a single time i call GW out without giving a valid reason to why i dont like that certain product?
Or is there ever EVER been a single time that i accuse GW of doing anything another profiting company doesnt do?
Like i said , you are only grasping at something that doesnt exist , and might i add you might be a tiny bit biased towards giving the illusion to what you think you grasped.
I'm not going to bother to find examples, primarily because it's late and I reeeeeaaaaaalllllllyyyy don't care, but I see you as someone that dislikes games workshop rather strongly. And I've noticed you tend to be quick to exclaim the virtues of other companies over the overpriced semi illiterate money grubbing games workshop guys. Like I said though, not gonna back that up, primarily because I don't feel like going on an easter hunt to prove cognitive dissonance on a forum dedicated to tiny plastic men ever in my life.
ShumaGorath wrote:High prices don't necessitate premium pricing though. I would argue that without seeing the profit margins they make in comparison to their own competition (custom modeling, historical, and pop culture modeling) we can't really venture a guess there.
Yes, you are right. Earlier, Frozenwastes posited that FW was in competition with GW. What do you think about that? Or do you think that GW pretending that competitors don't exist doesn't factor in and FW is competing against other resin model companies whether they know it or not.
ShumaGorath wrote:SORRY, I GUESS I WAS RESPONDING MORE GENERALLY TO EVERYONE IN THE THREAD. DON'T TAKE THAT AS BEING DIRECTED AT YOU, I ACTUALLY REALIZED BEFORE POSTING THAT WE WERE IN AGREEMENT. I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE QUOTED SOMETHING ELSE.
ShumaGorath wrote:I'm not going to bother to find examples, primarily because it's late and I reeeeeaaaaaalllllllyyyy don't care, but I see you as someone that dislikes games workshop rather strongly. And I've noticed you tend to be quick to exclaim the virtues of other companies over the overpriced semi illiterate money grubbing games workshop guys. Like I said though, not gonna back that up, primarily because I don't feel like going on an easter hunt to prove cognitive dissonance on a forum dedicated to tiny plastic men ever in my life.
To make it easier for you shuma , i'll tell you the ONE thing i dont like about GW , here it is:
I dont like their discrepancy in the reasons they give in explaining things.
It can be anything from pricing to rules .
I think if they dont know the answer , they should just say they dont know , because if they give you reason for one thing
and later contradicts it , one has to wonder why it was given in the first place.
Thats all there is to it shuma , why else do you think i have GW products for? ( i mean im not a genie or anything )
Yep, "morons" shows a value judgement on my part. And that's a-okay. They can think I'm a moron for spending money on plastic toy soldiers and I can think they're morons for spending thousands on designer clothing. We both buy what we want and think what we want. Win-win.
