We've had to nuke the previous one owing to some technical issues, a pox on modern technology and all its wiles, we never had these issues with steam and clockwork.
..anyway..
From the email GW sent out
Incoming! Blood Angels
This April the Blood Angels will be re-launched with an all-new Codex and range of plastic and metal miniatures. One of the oldest and noblest of all Space Marine Chapters, the Blood Angels have stood fast against the enemies of the Imperium since the Great Crusade and it was their Primarch Sanguinius, who laid down his life to aid the Emperor against Horus in the final hours of the Warmaster’s rebellion. The new Codex explores the background and history of these superhuman warriors like never before, and contains new artwork depicting some of their greatest battles and most powerful champions.
The Blood Angels have always been a powerful close combat army and have been made even deadlier thanks to a range of specialist wargear, the ability to field Assault Squads as Troops choices, and more Dreadnoughts than any other Space Marine Chapter, including a Death Company Dreadnought and the fabled Furioso Dreadnought. The Sons of Sanguinius will be deep striking onto a tabletop near you this April – now’s the time to practice painting red.
Blood Angels
and there is a small article on the GW site that tells us a little more :
From these we can deduce a few things : tactical squads would appear to be a mainstay still, however they would appear, if perhaps through the use of a special character, to still be able to field assault squads as troop choices.
New models that are coming out :
Chapter Master Seth of the Flesh Tearers. He is armed with an eviscerator looking type weapon and appears to have an Iron halo.
Astorath the Grim. Elaborate armour & jump pack, big 2 handed axe with a kind of spinal columnesque feel to the haft. Or is it shaft ? SKULLS.
A new not crappy ( let's hope anyway eh ?) Lemartes. I believe he hs a jump pack too. And skulls. But you knew that right ? Sanguinor Examplar of the Host.. jump pack, elaborate armour. Not too many skulls.
There could/should well be a at least one or more other blisters containing things like new... or perhaps old.. weapon options too.
There is also a very good possibility that the BA will get a hitherto brand new skimmer/flyer model too, which utilises the same base as the Valk. ... does the Trygon use this base as well ? I think so. It would be reasonable enough, IMO, to perhaps see this rolled out into the "vanilla" marine codex when that is next updated, akin to the Land Raider Crusader. This is, of course, speculation, much more so than the existence of the vehicle itself IMO.
Mr. Scryer in the Darkness dug up the following forthcoming item codes
Which, to my mind anyway, reads like the 4 above characters, at least 1 extra meta; squad model and, say, a bitz pack with Flesh Tearer shoulder pads in. That's speculation though however.
This is, IMO, all the really reliable information that is out there currently. There is talk about some new dreadnought and Predator kit/s, but I think these might perhaps be "Battle Missions" related rather than BA specific.
I am fairly certain that we should see some BA specific plastics too, even if only in a manner akin to the Black Templars and Dark Angels perhaps.
I'm aware that there are a fair few other claims out and about doing the rounds. I'm dubious about a lot or some of those at the very least. If people want to tack them on the thread then feel free to however. I'd like some of it to be true and hope some of it is.. but some of it... hmm... don't ring true to me. NO offence or slur on those who have posted such info, it can get quite confusing out there -- see the slew of combined DA and BA codex rumors that did the rounds for a good while.
Would people like it or find it helpful if I updated the first post with "confirmed"/good as we get news as it passes ?
EDIT : as promised then ;
UPDATE 1. 20.1.10
Feb issue of WD is starting to appear here and there, apparently it says
"...the Furioso Librarian - a psyker entombed in a Dreadnought - and the mysterious avenging angel known only as the Sanguinor."
reds8n wrote:Would people like it or find it helpful if I updated the first post with "confirmed"/good as we get news as it passes ?
Absolutely! For the all issues that Warseer may have, one thing I appreciate there is the practice of updating the first post in a thread as the summary of reliable/confirmed rumors.
BrookM wrote:Lock it! Lest we suffer more of those horrible vampire jokes.
Thirded.
The rumor/confirmation threads work best when you lock+sticky them, then update as necessary(with a note in the thread title of the date and "UPDATE!").
"Update the first post" works in a locked sub forum like on warseer, but is a pain in a normal discussion thread. Having to read the first post, and then figure out the page on which new comments appear is vexing. Much better to have new content appear with new comments.
reds8n wrote:Would people like it or find it helpful if I updated the first post with "confirmed"/good as we get news as it passes ?
Absolutely! For the all issues that Warseer may have, one thing I appreciate there is the practice of updating the first post in a thread as the summary of reliable/confirmed rumors.
Or close old threads redirecting to the new thread.
Did the pictures of the new Vampric Bat-Riders leak yet?
They are Fast Attack, and totally awesome! 2 wounds, S/T 5, rending with cavalry and options for storm shields and the Mark of the Carstein. (Rending again, plus replace the A characteristic with d6+1 attacks.)
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Mark of the Carstein? They're straight lifting names from WFB Vampire Counts for the vampire Chapter? Even for GW that is uninspired.
Mate, I think that Defiler is having a bit of a dig here. Hurr to him. He's basically just ripped off the stats for the Thunder Wolf Riders.
Which I must say are an awesome idea. Just not the best models. Heck GW, give me plastic goodness!
Defiler wrote:Did the pictures of the new Vampric Bat-Riders leak yet?
They are Fast Attack, and totally awesome! 2 wounds, S/T 5, rending with cavalry and options for storm shields and the Mark of the Carstein. (Rending again, plus replace the A characteristic with d6+1 attacks.)
Not amusing at all.
In fact, the profiles had been leaked. They are walkers with AV 12/12/10, 2 DCCWs, autocannon, skorcha, and a battle cannon in the mouth of the bat.
Maybe we'll get a new piece of fanfiction from 4Chan - a spinoff of Love Will Bloom - this time featuring a brooding Blood Angel Exalted known as Captain Cullen, and the young Howling Banshee, Bel'ah, who pines after him to the point of absurdity.
This move toward a heavy dreadnought environment is surprising. Personally though, I find it to be pretty creative, an interesting take on the sarcophagus/coffin idea. A neat twist in the mythos, which adds to their uniqueness.
Ouze wrote:So does anyone know what this flying land raider thing is going to look like, exactly?
The fluff for it apparently says in the past the Imperium's record keepers mistakenly thought they were Thunderhawks, they probably look similar to a thunderhawk but smaller with fewer weapons. I speculate the rumor originators comment of it being a "landraider" is because it has an assault ramp and similar weapons, twinlinked lascannons.
reds8n wrote:Feb issue of WD is starting to appear here and there, apparently it says
"...the Furioso Librarian - a psyker entombed in a Dreadnought - and the mysterious avenging angel known only as the Sanguinor."
Thanks to Mr. Lorizael from 40k Online.
*facepalm and/or pants 'splosion*
I'm waiting for the day that Codex: Chaos United comes out, and is immediately hailed as the long-awaited arrival of Codex: Defiler Kingdoms, with no less than 8 dread variants and 4 demon engines
- Salvage, who secretly suspects that the next CSM book will in fact have 0 dreads ...
I'm very hesitant about all the flavors of dreadnoughts. How many dreads does each chapter have and is that enough to justify the different variants? And what is there really to gain, by having these different variants? Are we going to get Techmarine and Apothecary dreadnoughts next? The rules would end up having to get wilder and wilder to justify the units. A librarian dreadnoughts probably going to have a force weapon and a psycannon thats better than anything the grey knights have. With these types of units it will all just end up in the next Codex SM so they really should have keep variants to things that only Blood Angels and their successors would have.
Given how much was in Codex SM, Codex SW, Codex IG and is being put into Codex BA, I wonder if GW will ever add back in some of the options now lacking with Chaos. With all the new and special stuff, it really doesn't make infiltrating power armor seem that bad.
Boss_Salvage wrote:- Salvage, who secretly suspects that the next CSM book will in fact have 0 dreads ...
No, Boss, the next CSM book will have loads because, the next CSM book IS the BA Codex. Just as the SW is a good Counts As codex for your Khorne Berserker army, the BA Codex with be a great Counts As for both Night Lords as well as Iron Warriors!
Force Organization Chart
Blood Angel FOC is divergant from the Ultramarine one:
-Dreadnoughts are heavy support.
-Furioso Dreads with droppods are fast attack.
-Twin scout entries are both elites, but one is scoring.
-Only dedicated ground transport is the Rhino (Razorbacks are out)
-Assault Squad and Tactical Squad are troops.
-Honour Guard can be troops if fielded with Dante.
-Jump pack units are in every FOC category except heavy support and HQ:
--Assault Squad - troops
--Honour Guard - elites
--Exalted - fast attack
Death Company is 0-1 and doesn't need a slot in the FOC
Units Rules
Tantalus Lander is a dedicated transport for everything in the army except tanks, Land Speeders and Exalted. Its weaponry is: 2 twin-linked assault cannons, 1 twin-linked special weapon.
Land Raider: Redeemer, Crusader and Standard
Terminator sergeants can get close combat wargear. There is a Terminator upgrade to allow shooting in an enemy phase.
Exalted: 4/4/4(5)/4/1/5/1+1/10/3+, jump troops, hit & run, furious charge, no red fury/combat tactics, power armor, stormbolter, power weapon, bolt pistol, no options, no transports.
Named Characters
Erasmus: Furious charge, digital weapons (rending), master crafted combi melta: 18" S:8 AP:1 Assault 1, melta, reroll to hit, 4+ ward save, can chose one set of special rules:
-squad ignores red fury
-red fury and preferred enemy
-rage and feel no pain
Mephiston: 7/7/5/5/3/7/4/10/2+, FnP, Fearless, Eternal Warrior, Fleet, 2 psychic powers per turn.
More potent versions of Might of heroes, Transfixing Gaze and Blood Stasis powers:
The gun of Victor's servitor is 36" S:6 AP:6 Assault6
Psychic Powers
Quickening: Infantry moves as beasts, jump troops and walkers gain fleet.
Blood Stasis: 5" vortex of blood in base contact. Enemy models count as being in difficult terrain, and suffer one wound if they try to move and any of the distance dice shows a 1, Mephiston: can cast it in close combat centered on himself, and enemies attacking with a 1 suffer a wound.
Might of Heroes: one model in squad gets +D3 attacks, Mephiston: can cast it on himself.
Primarchs Grace: Squad may reroll dangerous terrain tests.
Transfixing Gaze: Target model must take a leadership roll off or not able to attack librarian, Mephiston: not able to attack any model.
Living Darkness: A template which blocks line of sight.
Fluff
Background: mainly Blood Angels and 4 successor chapters with one page each:
-Blood Consuls
-Angels Sanguine
-Flesh Tearers
-Angels Vermillion
Mephiston is going to be a PIMP! I wonder if he has an invul save now?
I am excited for th enew book, it looks like it will shake things up a bit and really give the Red Marines something to make them stand apart, like Space Pups got.
JohnHwangDD wrote:A Dread is just a big metal box. You can put anything in that box.
Yes, but the marine stuck in that box is not always entirely there. They were injured or they were practically dead, and now they're wired in. Not entirely of sound mind. Dreadnought and Venerable dreadnoughts were already representative of a Commander-Chaplain-Librarian-Sergeant that has become entombed. The lack of abilities of those dreadnoughts is because an entombed commander doesn't have enough know with all to give orders, a chaplain can't curse up his storm, and a Librarian use his psyker powers... most of the time they'd only have half a mind. Are there exceptions, yes. It boils down to this shouldn't be more than a special character, not an excuse to have standardly available Dreadnoughts shooting lightning, teleport across the table, or become even more resilient due to a psionic force field.
Overall I like what I'm hearing of this book, with the above exception. Thats pretty good.
Really hoping that some of this isn't true, I have a 3k+ BA army, and don't really think that the new out-of-nowhere emphasis on Dreads is a great idea. Some of the new character rumours sound awful (that Victor guy in particular), and if we're losing Razorbacks and Rending on Death Company (heard this on Warseer, I think) then I won't be happy.
There's some good stuff there, like Mephiston's statline, but neither the rumoured new units or the psychic powers appeal to me at all (possible exception for Exalted, depending on the models).
I guess I'll do the usual and reserve judgement until the Codex is in my hands, maybe I'll like it.
George Spiggott wrote:Am I the only one that thinks vampire Space Marines riding giant vampire wolves is an awesome idea?
That would be awesome. But could it be more awesome? What if they were surfing on hover-coffins with big capes billowing behind them and poofy power armored collars and cuffs? The latest vampire fans don't associate them with animals anymore. Cyborg bats might be a little bit too Green Goblin, and that would be silly.
Ouze wrote:So does anyone know what this flying land raider thing is going to look like, exactly?
The fluff for it apparently says in the past the Imperium's record keepers mistakenly thought they were Thunderhawks, they probably look similar to a thunderhawk but smaller with fewer weapons. I speculate the rumor originators comment of it being a "landraider" is because it has an assault ramp and similar weapons, twinlinked lascannons.
My guess it'll be something like this:
Awesome concept. If its anything like that, I'll probably pick one up for the cool factor, regardless if other chapters can use it.
JohnHwangDD wrote:A Dread is just a big metal box. You can put anything in that box.
Yes, but the marine stuck in that box is not always entirely there. They were injured or they were practically dead, and now they're wired in. Not entirely of sound mind.
Dreadnought and Venerable dreadnoughts were already representative of a Commander-Chaplain-Librarian-Sergeant that has become entombed.
The lack of abilities of those dreadnoughts is because an entombed commander doesn't have enough know with all to give orders, a chaplain can't curse up his storm, and a Librarian use his psyker powers... most of the time they'd only have half a mind.
Are there exceptions, yes. It boils down to this shouldn't be more than a special character, not an excuse to have standardly available Dreadnoughts shooting lightning, teleport across the table, or become even more resilient due to a psionic force field.
The "not of sound mind" Dreads are the Chaos boxes.
I don't see Venerables as HQ types, more as boxes that have been sitting around for a long time.
If the Librarian isn't quite there, does it really make sense to turn a box into a giant, armored Chaos portal? Are Marines really that stupid? That said, I'd love to see a Daemonically-possessed, non-crabby box with Magic!
Most Marine boxes are relatively new, so they're sane enough. Otherwise, they'd be Crazed!. But no reason for there not to be Special Characters in boxes, like Moriar and Bjorn.
Not of sound mind as in... being blown to pieces and having your damaged body and brain hooked up to a machine leaves one a little slowed. Not crazy but lacking full cognitive capabilities. Putting a Librarian into a dreadnought sounds like how they make Defilers. The process of becoming a dreadnought is was deminishes the marine, Chapters like the Iron Hands have more dreadnoughts because they've perfected the melding of brain with machine. I doubt the Blood Angels have been as devoted.
Not of sound mind as in... being blown to pieces and having your damaged body and brain hooked up to a machine leaves one a little slowed.
Sorry but this isn't backed up by the background material at all. The Horus Heresy books even have Dreadnoughts perhaps much more sane than their battle brothers. The Emperor's Children Dreadnought for example who was discussing his own Legion's fall from grace with Loken of the Luna Wolves, and as Dan Abnett revealed about the upcoming book the Dreadnought (can't remember his name) saved Loken from certain death during the orbital bombardment by taking Loken's body to a bunker (IIRC).
Bjorn of the Space Wolves is a truly ancient Dreadnought and he is capable of making battle strategies and sits in a council of Wolf Lords whenever awake. Let's not even get into Iron Hands, where every company captain would like to be a Dreadnought, and some are.
I'm sorry but there are simply countless examples of loyalist Dreadnoughts being glorious commanders and individuals everyone around them revere and respect. JohnHwangDD is right about this one. I think a fully active Librarian being encased in a Dreadnought suit is a nice addition to the game and the background material. No doubt he has to be one heroic individual and the suit warded with all sorts of protection against daemonic invaders.
Not of sound mind as in... being blown to pieces and having your damaged body and brain hooked up to a machine leaves one a little slowed.
Sorry but this isn't backed up by the background material at all. The Horus Heresy books even have Dreadnoughts perhaps much more sane than their battle brothers. The Emperor's Children Dreadnought for example who was discussing his own Legion's fall from grace with Loken of the Luna Wolves, and as Dan Abnett revealed about the upcoming book the Dreadnought (can't remember his name) saved Loken from certain death during the orbital bombardment by taking Loken's body to a bunker (IIRC).
Bjorn of the Space Wolves is a truly ancient Dreadnought and he is capable of making battle strategies and sits in a council of Wolf Lords whenever awake. Let's not even get into Iron Hands, where every company captain would like to be a Dreadnought, and some are.
I'm sorry but there are simply countless examples of loyalist Dreadnoughts being heroic commanders and individuals everyone around them revere and respect. JohnHwangDD is right about this one. I think a fully active Librarian being encased in a Dreadnought suit is a nice addition to the game and the background material. No doubt he had to be one heroic individual and the suit warded with all sorts of protection against daemonic invaders.
In Space marine codex there is a dreadnought which takes over command from Sicarius when he gets injured and is sane. Also in the Space Wolf codex it says that they just sleep until awoken so they don't just sit there slipping into insanity like the chaos ones (they too spiky to sleep )
There's just a few problems with Librarian Dreadnoughts.
#1) Dreadnoughts have no Ld statistic. So, will GW give this specific Dreadnought a Ld statistic solely for psychic tests?
#2) Having no W characteristic, what happens when a Librarian Dread suffers a Perils of the Warp attack? Takes an automatic strength X hit based on the psychic power used?
Not of sound mind as in... being blown to pieces and having your damaged body and brain hooked up to a machine leaves one a little slowed.
Sorry but this isn't backed up by the background material at all. The Horus Heresy books even have Dreadnoughts perhaps much more sane than their battle brothers. The Emperor's Children Dreadnought for example who was discussing his own Legion's fall from grace with Loken of the Luna Wolves, and as Dan Abnett revealed about the upcoming book the Dreadnought (can't remember his name) saved Loken from certain death during the orbital bombardment by taking Loken's body to a bunker (IIRC).
Bjorn of the Space Wolves is a truly ancient Dreadnought and he is capable of making battle strategies and sits in a council of Wolf Lords whenever awake. Let's not even get into Iron Hands, where every company captain would like to be a Dreadnought, and some are.
I'm sorry but there are simply countless examples of loyalist Dreadnoughts being glorious commanders and individuals everyone around them revere and respect. JohnHwangDD is right about this one. I think a fully active Librarian being encased in a Dreadnought suit is a nice addition to the game and the background material. No doubt he has to be one heroic individual and the suit warded with all sorts of protection against daemonic invaders.
Death By Monkeys wrote:There's just a few problems with Librarian Dreadnoughts.
#1) Dreadnoughts have no Ld statistic. So, will GW give this specific Dreadnought a Ld statistic solely for psychic tests?
#2) Having no W characteristic, what happens when a Librarian Dread suffers a Perils of the Warp attack? Takes an automatic strength X hit based on the psychic power used?
My guesses:
1) They have a rule that the count as having Ld 9 or 10 for purposes of psychic tests. 9 perhaps because losing their body makes it a little harder for them to really focus the energy, but maybe being mostly just brain and random bits makes it easier to focus. No nose to start itching or something.
2) When they get Perils of the Warp the Dread suffers a Penetrating hit with a -1 on the roll on the table. Not likely to get wrecked, but possibly will lose control of weapons systems or the like. (If they wanted to get fancy, it would be a Glancing hit but with a cumlative +1 for every roll after the first. Probably too much book keeping though.)
It would be kind of neat to get a Str6 Force weapon instead of a DCCW on the guy. Seriously mess up some Tyranids, he would.
I really like the idea of Chaplain dreads too. Give all nearby units Stubborn or Furious Charge or something.
That would be awesome. But could it be more awesome? What if they were surfing on hover-coffins with big capes billowing behind them and poofy power armored collars and cuffs?
Therion wrote:Sorry but this isn't backed up by the background material at all. The Horus Heresy books even have Dreadnoughts perhaps much more sane than their battle brothers. The Emperor's Children Dreadnought for example who was discussing his own Legion's fall from grace with Loken of the Luna Wolves, and as Dan Abnett revealed about the upcoming book the Dreadnought (can't remember his name) saved Loken from certain death during the orbital bombardment by taking Loken's body to a bunker (IIRC).
Bjorn of the Space Wolves is a truly ancient Dreadnought and he is capable of making battle strategies and sits in a council of Wolf Lords whenever awake. Let's not even get into Iron Hands, where every company captain would like to be a Dreadnought, and some are.
I'm sorry but there are simply countless examples of loyalist Dreadnoughts being glorious commanders and individuals everyone around them revere and respect. JohnHwangDD is right about this one...
Two examples, doesn't constitute countless. First I said not of sound mind, in the diminished inteligence and cognitive sense. I also said that there are exceptions, but that those should be special characters and not an off the shelf unit. I don't really count the novels because the authors just write what they want and don't need to follow any pre-existing fluff. It comes down to how much of the poor marine was still "there" when he was entombed.
In most chapters the dreadnoughts are older than chapter master and captains, so if they are 100% themselves why wouldn't they be able to continue command in a permenant capacity? The simple fact is they aren't 100% themselves.
TheRavenWolf wrote:
In Space marine codex there is a dreadnought which takes over command from Sicarius when he gets injured and is sane. Also in the Space Wolf codex it says that they just sleep until awoken so they don't just sit there slipping into insanity like the chaos ones (they too spiky to sleep )
Its not about diminished sanity, its diminished capacity. On some level they become like servitors, just to a lesser extreme.
@ Death By Monkeys - Meh, I've got too much pride to stoop to playing a loyalist codex, and clearly I like whining too much as well
(But keep this on the DL: this weekend I had a serious go at making a CSM list using the wolf codex, and ended up backing down because I missed all my special weapons, weird toy troops, and cheap dreads with 3A base ...)
@ Therion - Good post man. I'd also note that in Daemon World the Violators CSM have a dread leader who a) doesn't flip out and shoot his peeps with his assault cannon (!), and b) can fly (or at least glide when jumping out of their possessed thunderhawk)
@ Wehr - Isn't there a rule that non-chaos power armor books have to have mostly functional units, some of which just happen to cost a bit much? Combine that with the Bloody Angels of Blood being decidedly UBER, and I'm guessing he takes psychic tests @ Ld 10, and either ignores PotW straight out or just takes a glancing hit. Oh, and maybe a hood that works on the whole field, like old times? Dreadnought power plant boost
Also dude, reach for the stars: force DCCWftw!
Annnd you know there's a FW chappy dread, right? I forget what his badassness buffs his boys with, but he certainly looks hella cool.
Other posters have mentioned more examples, and I could dig up a few more too. You however have only refered to some abstract 'old fluff' with no citations whatsoever where you're getting your information from while trying to discredit the biggest source of 40K background material, the Black Library.
Boss_Salvage wrote:(But keep this on the DL: this weekend I had a serious go at making a CSM list using the wolf codex
Do like me and make a DIY chapter of your own and convert the models suitably. That way you can play them as whatever loyalist codex you want whenever you want, or even CSM if your collection of models is large enough. I bet there are a lot of 'borderline' traitor/loyalist Space Marine chapters that could fall under either army book.
The thing is, if Razorbacks do stick around, and for that matter, everything else in the Vanilla Marine codex. Well then, it would make sense for everyone to run the new BA codex, rather than the standard codex.
You want exalted? You want Furioso, Baal pred, Ass. Marines as troops, Tyco etc? Expect some SM codex stuff to disappear...
Just sayin' is all. You can't expect everything from both the BA and standard SM codex...
Blood Angel FOC is divergant from the Ultramarine one:
-Dreadnoughts are heavy support.
-Furioso Dreads with droppods are fast attack.
-Twin scout entries are both elites, but one is scoring.
-Only dedicated ground transport is the Rhino (Razorbacks are out)
-Assault Squad and Tactical Squad are troops.
-Honour Guard can be troops if fielded with Dante.
-Jump pack units are in every FOC category except heavy support and HQ:
--Assault Squad - troops
--Honour Guard - elites
--Exalted - fast attack
Death Company is 0-1 and doesn't need a slot in the FOC
Units Rules
Tantalus Lander is a dedicated transport for everything in the army except tanks, Land Speeders and Exalted. Its weaponry is: 2 twin-linked assault cannons, 1 twin-linked special weapon.
Land Raider: Redeemer, Crusader and Standard
Terminator sergeants can get close combat wargear. There is a Terminator upgrade to allow shooting in an enemy phase.
Exalted: jump troops, hit & run, furious charge, no red fury/combat tactics, power armor, stormbolter, power weapon, bolt pistol, no options, no transports.
Erasmus: Furious charge, digital weapons (rending), master crafted combi melta: 18" S:8 AP:1 Assault 1, melta, reroll to hit, 4+ ward save, can chose one set of special rules:
-squad ignores red fury
-red fury and preferred enemy
-rage and feel no pain
More potent versions of Might of heroes, Transfixing Gaze and Blood Stasis powers:
The gun of Victor's servitor is 36" S:6 AP:6 Assault6
Psychic Powers
Quickening: Infantry moves as beasts, jump troops and walkers gain fleet.
Blood Stasis: 5" vortex of blood in base contact. Enemy models count as being in difficult terrain, and suffer one wound if they try to move and any of the distance dice shows a 1, Mephiston: can cast it in close combat centered on himself, and enemies attacking with a 1 suffer a wound.
Might of Heroes: one model in squad gets +D3 attacks, Mephiston: can cast it on himself.
Primarchs Grace: Squad may reroll dangerous terrain tests.
Transfixing Gaze: Target model must take a leadership roll off or not able to attack librarian, Mephiston: not able to attack any model.
Living Darkness: A template which blocks line of sight.
Fluff
Background: mainly Blood Angels and 4 successor chapters with one page each:
-Blood Consuls
-Angels Sanguine
-Flesh Tearers
-Angels Vermillion
I removed the unit stats to protect the inno...IP. Also courtesy of various french, italian and german sites and a wee bit o warseer.
Not of sound mind as in... being blown to pieces and having your damaged body and brain hooked up to a machine leaves one a little slowed.
Sorry but this isn't backed up by the background material at all. The Horus Heresy books even have Dreadnoughts perhaps much more sane than their battle brothers. The Emperor's Children Dreadnought for example who was discussing his own Legion's fall from grace with Loken of the Luna Wolves, and as Dan Abnett revealed about the upcoming book the Dreadnought (can't remember his name) saved Loken from certain death during the orbital bombardment by taking Loken's body to a bunker (IIRC).
Bjorn of the Space Wolves is a truly ancient Dreadnought and he is capable of making battle strategies and sits in a council of Wolf Lords whenever awake. Let's not even get into Iron Hands, where every company captain would like to be a Dreadnought, and some are.
I'm sorry but there are simply countless examples of loyalist Dreadnoughts being glorious commanders and individuals everyone around them revere and respect. JohnHwangDD is right about this one. I think a fully active Librarian being encased in a Dreadnought suit is a nice addition to the game and the background material. No doubt he has to be one heroic individual and the suit warded with all sorts of protection against daemonic invaders.
AH FFS, thx for the frakkin spoiler, jesus...
It's not really a spoiler, most of the info and names he mentions are entirely wrong :p
It's not really a spoiler, most of the info and names he mentions are entirely wrong :p
Are they really? Which names are those? The name of Dan Abnett? The name of the Luna Wolf character in question? Did I spell Bjorn wrong? Should it be Björn? The only other name I mentioned was JohnHwangDD. Was that incorrect?
You can't discredit a person or something he wrote by simply making a empty claim like that. How about you point out the names that were incorrect and the information that was false, and we'll then go through them one by one. If you want to debate background material, I also expect you to have citations and page references where you're getting the 'correct' information from. Thank you very much.
Just to help you out a bit, I can refer you to the following link, where Dan Abnett says for the first time Loken isn't dead and will return in a future book. By the way, information that's been available for half a year can hardly be considered a spoiler.
Another little tidbit on the Exalted, courtesy of BoLS:
"After battle the Exalted search for wounded who have succumbed to the black rage and take them to the chapter tower prison.
5-10 members, Fast Attack, Standard Marine statline with Ld:10/I:5
jump packs, stormbolter, boltpistol, Exalted blades (thin straight blade with spiral hilt, power weapon, +1 Strength)
Guardians of Amareo: replaces Red Fury and Furious Charge with hit& run.
No transport options
Upgrade to Exemplar Sanguinator granting:
-Paragon of the Host: Reroll hit & run roll
-Coup de Grace: If at least 3 attacks hit, they causes instant death"
Again, grain of salt, but this unit sounds pretty cool.
It sounds awesome. Now, is there a way to get them without the jump packs and inside the flying Land Raider or any other transport? I can't really see expensive jump packers surviving in this mech day and age.
Rinkydink wrote:The thing is, if Razorbacks do stick around, and for that matter, everything else in the Vanilla Marine codex. Well then, it would make sense for everyone to run the new BA codex, rather than the standard codex.
You want exalted? You want Furioso, Baal pred, Ass. Marines as troops, Tyco etc? Expect some SM codex stuff to disappear...
Just sayin' is all. You can't expect everything from both the BA and standard SM codex...
I think you can expect the vast majority of it, although borderline stuff might be a little pricey pointwise. I think anything with a largely ranged focus like devastators will be more expensive than their SM or even SW counterparts.
I, for one, am very excited for this. Years ago, when I was still in HS and couldn't afford to play, I saw a Furioso box and thought that something called a Furioso dreadnought was the coolest sounding thing ever. After I started getting Necrons (I thought they looked cooler) I'd been considering BA as a second army, but was so disappointed by the power level of the codex compared to the current SM one, and wasn't going to make the same mistake twice.
I'm definitely going to get this now. If half of these rumors are true, it'll be glorious. I love the BA fluff in a weird, guilty half-ironic sort of way.
GitSmack wrote:Another little tidbit on the Exalted, courtesy of BoLS:
"After battle the Exalted search for wounded who have succumbed to the black rage and take them to the chapter tower prison.
5-10 members, Fast Attack, Standard Marine statline with Ld:10/I:5
jump packs, stormbolter, boltpistol, Exalted blades (thin straight blade with spiral hilt, power weapon, +1 Strength)
Guardians of Amareo: replaces Red Fury and Furious Charge with hit& run.
No transport options
Upgrade to Exemplar Sanguinator granting:
-Paragon of the Host: Reroll hit & run roll
-Coup de Grace: If at least 3 attacks hit, they causes instant death"
Again, grain of salt, but this unit sounds pretty cool.
I suppose if they are already plus 1 str, and init 5 then there isn't much reason to have FC BUT they can't be too expensive of they will never be taken since they'll never make it to combat. Hit and run for heavy assault troops is damn nice though and might make them on the must have list even if they are heavy on the point cost.
To answer the transport option, I can't see a reason under these rules that you wouldn't be able to put them in another unit's flying land raider if the squad size is under 8.
GitSmack wrote:
-Coup de Grace: If at least 3 attacks hit, they causes instant death"
This sounds like complete bull-honkey. I like killing units of Warriors, Nobz, Ogryn, and other multiwound units without invulnerable saves as much as the next guy, but that sounds ridiculous. I could buy them all using a coup de grace attack instead of their regular attacks (just like Sicarius) but not both.
Don't get too excited. This is only rumor, and it was listed with the upgrade character. I'd imagine that if he lands 3 attacks then his attacks cause instant death. If he does it to the whole squad, then I agree that this is stupidly overpowered unless they are hideously expensive.
blood angel wrote:To answer the transport option, I can't see a reason under these rules that you wouldn't be able to put them in another unit's flying land raider if the squad size is under 8.
Except they're Jump Infantry so they're not getting inside any sort of transport without some sort of special rule.
blood angel wrote:To answer the transport option, I can't see a reason under these rules that you wouldn't be able to put them in another unit's flying land raider if the squad size is under 8.
Except they're Jump Infantry so they're not getting inside any sort of transport without some sort of special rule.
The Tantalus Lander can supposedly carry Jump Infantry (and in fact they treat it as an Assault Vehicle).
The Tantalus Lander can supposedly carry Jump Infantry (and in fact they treat it as an Assault Vehicle).
Sounds like wishlisting but it also sounds like an interesting concept. Of course a lot depends on the stats and points cost of the Tantalus itself but atleast visually armies with a few of those flyers and a bunch of drop troopers would be simply awesome.
Apologies for asking this, as I couldn't find reference to it in this thread or previous, but the Red Rage or whatever it's called - what rule effect does that have? Is it some Ld based test to keep the squad from rushing forward? Or does no one really know exactly what it is yet?
This might be the perfect codex to rep my Storm Hawks/Eagles (gotta decide on that name someday) marines with, especially if there's a psychic dreadnought...
blood angel wrote:To answer the transport option, I can't see a reason under these rules that you wouldn't be able to put them in another unit's flying land raider if the squad size is under 8.
Except they're Jump Infantry so they're not getting inside any sort of transport without some sort of special rule.
The Tantalus Lander can supposedly carry Jump Infantry (and in fact they treat it as an Assault Vehicle).
Or so romor has it.
Jack
Ah, well that is different if it's true and pretty cool. I guess we'll soon see.
The Tantalus Lander can supposedly carry Jump Infantry (and in fact they treat it as an Assault Vehicle).
Sounds like wishlisting but it also sounds like an interesting concept. Of course a lot depends on the stats and points cost of the Tantalus itself but atleast visually armies with a few of those flyers and a bunch of drop troopers would be simply awesome.
Given that AM are already overcosted, and fast-moving, spending 100+ pts for a largely redundant Transport had better give some extra bonus.
Gitzbitah wrote:Don't get too excited. This is only rumor, and it was listed with the upgrade character. I'd imagine that if he lands 3 attacks then his attacks cause instant death. If he does it to the whole squad, then I agree that this is stupidly overpowered unless they are hideously expensive.
Seems fine to me. They're essentially dragonslayer knights or whatever, and that is Awesome.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Given that AM are already overcosted, and fast-moving, spending 100+ pts for a largely redundant Transport had better give some extra bonus.
I certainly can see the use for a mid range (between Land Raider and Rhino, in both cost and usefulness) transport, assuming it comes in somewhere in the vicinity of the Valkyrie for cost, but I don't disagree that AM could still do with a price cut, since as it turns our Jumppacks only seem to be worth at most about 1 point a model (for basic troopers and similar), I'm inclined towards essentially no cost for them personally as I think the benefit of speed is balanced by the reduced ability to take cover. Although Assault Marines with Furious Charge may be OK even at the current 18 ppm, especially if they can boil out of a nice safe transport first.
I feel so sorry for all the dark angels fans out there stuck with a ton of crap for a codex. Awesome space pups and now even more awesome blood angels...talk about kick to the groin to the DA players.
If the SW were a cheap mass infantry army with expensive melee elites then I wonder how they will make the BAs to be.
Keep imagespamming guys, it really helps the thread.
I'm just wondering when we'll start to see leaked images. How long after the "Incoming! Space Wolves!" article did we start to see models, officially leaked or not?
Mosg wrote:Anyone else think that it'd be ridiculously overpowered to have a fast skimmer transport that can be assaulted out of? Anyone? Bueller?
Let's assume it's an AV12 Transport costing 120 pts.
Inside you have 10 AM at 20+ pts each = 250 pts.
This is around 370 pts for AM who now move marginally faster than the same AM on their own. If the AM are capped at 5 models (big, like Termies), 100 pts for the transport becomes very expensive.
No, it's not even close to overpowered. The only way it's might be overpowered is if the skimmer Transport is FREE.
Bla_Ze wrote:I don't care if its been AVAILABLE for a century, use the god damn spoiler function
What the hell are you doing in a thread like this NOT expecting spoilers? Spoilers are what threads like these are all about. You want to avoid spoilers, stick to the specialist games forums.
Yeah? Supposedly, so are Vanguard. 10 Vanguard w/ JP cost 325, and adding gear bumps them to the same 375 price point. How overpowered are Vanguard? Are they so good that they're must-haves in every SM list?
He didn't say overpowered John. He said useful. Do try to keep up.
And Vanguard aren't useful precisely because they're so expensive. Assuming a Tantulus (even exists...) can carry Jump Packers, then regular squads of Jump packers - the ones that don't cost 375 per unit - will be quite nice to have in there.
The deal with the transports and assault troops is that those transports can also deep strike. It is rumored to hold 8 assault marines.
So you pay the extra cost for the transport to be able to surgically insert your assault marines so they can charge the first turn they are available.
In theory - of course we don't know how these will work yet. If they tantalus is a giant fig that will be nigh impossible to deep strike without mishap then it will stay on the shelf. If it can be brought down via the use of teleport homers or locator beacons it will be sold in droves.
If it's around 100 points or even 150 points with the assault cannons and twin plasma/meltas then it's going to be worth every point IF it can be brought down safely.
Of course this assumes no special rules, but whats not to say GW is thinking "but err its marines, marines are like superhuman, and can jump from a moving aircraft and its like cool... so marines should allow their vehicle to move full out speed and then deploy"... but they'll probably make them scatter.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but you've got to get there first. A transport makes that easier, especially an 'Assault' transport.
I think you almost have a higher chance of getting there if you hide your guys behind vehicles and stuff than if you have them in a transport many inches above the table. I know the poor guys tasked with Valkyrie/Vendetta duty almost always bite it faster than they would on foot or behind a Chimera. It's possible that the jump packs may alleviate this, but I'm fairly skeptical, at least until we have more information.
Bla_Ze wrote:I don't care if its been AVAILABLE for a century, use the god damn spoiler function
What the hell are you doing in a thread like this NOT expecting spoilers? Spoilers are what threads like these are all about. You want to avoid spoilers, stick to the specialist games forums.
Because the thread is about spoilers regarding the Blood Angels,
Not the as yet unreleased Horus Heresy Novels, and I can understand that someone would not want, in the middle of a discussion about character dreadnoughts,
to be told a major plot feature of an unreleased book.
I too foresee the probably 'best' option will be to run your jump packs behind cheap rhinos. I hope this is not the case though because I'd love to be able to competitively field all these supposed sweet new figures.
I too foresee the probably 'best' option will be to run your jump packs behind cheap rhinos. I hope this is not the case though because I'd love to be able to competitively field all these supposed sweet new figures.
Stop flamebaiting troll
Just becuase you can't read, or appreciate reading doesn't make it less important for those who has a passion for it. If you did, you wouldn't be responding is such a ignorant fashion.
Just becuase you can't read, or appreciate reading doesn't make it less important for those who has a passion for it. If you did, you wouldn't be responding is such a ignorant fashion.
I found Alpharius's last post informative and helpful. I would give it another look if I were you, Bla_Ze.
I wonder if the assault marines will have an option of buying a transport, or if you'll need some troops without jump packs to crew the raider shields. If a jump squad can buy a Tantalus, it might have quite a bit of utility beyond the transport options. I'd almost view it as a separate heavy weapons platform that allows the BA to be less reliant on slow heavy support.
I too foresee the probably 'best' option will be to run your jump packs behind cheap rhinos. I hope this is not the case though because I'd love to be able to competitively field all these supposed sweet new figures.
Stop flamebaiting troll
Just becuase you can't read, or appreciate reading doesn't make it less important for those who has a passion for it. If you did, you wouldn't be responding is such a ignorant fashion.
I find it funny that you just proved the spoiler system doesn't work. You, a person demanding spoiler tags are used, read it anyway. Not trying to flame here, just found that amusing.
@Ultra you're meant to say remotely what the spoiler is about as a preface not just post one. It was pretty obvious yours was about nothing.
I am vexed reading this awesome rumors for blood angels, but then I remember every rumor discussion is the sky is failing and surely my karma goes up by sticking with the chaos codex. At least I dont play thousand sons and realise that my warriors who worship the god of magic cant even compete with superstitious backward fools (space wolves) or emo vamps.. hahaha.
I too foresee the probably 'best' option will be to run your jump packs behind cheap rhinos. I hope this is not the case though because I'd love to be able to competitively field all these supposed sweet new figures.
Stop flamebaiting troll
Just becuase you can't read, or appreciate reading doesn't make it less important for those who has a passion for it. If you did, you wouldn't be responding is such a ignorant fashion.
How can you post a response like this? Honestly, you accuse somebody of illiteracy, but apparently didn't bother to read your own post.
And despite the way it's been incorrectly used in recent years, "troll" doesn't mean "person who's disagreeing with me."
I thought blood angel's use of a spoiler tag was both a creative and funny way of telling you and your petulant request to sod off.
Anyway, I'm really wondering about this whole transport vehicle thing. It would seem that a largely jump-infantry assault-based force wouldn't benefit much from supercharged Rhinos and whatever the hell the Tantalus is, aside from the additional protection. And even then, the process of disembarking would slow them down as they cluster about the vehicle, waiting for ordnance fire to take them out. Is this, perhaps, to be an intended weakness? It seems to me that I would rather take my chances with jump troops, because if they're going to be vulnerable for a turn anyway I'd rather be able to spread them out to minimize losses.
