My little bro got the new codex:nids this weekend, and reading through it I couldn't help but notice how many dudes there were without models. Almost all of the big bugs were model-less: Harpies, Tyrannofex, the Swarmlord, and some others. Is GW going to make these models eventually, or will we have to buy them from Forge World? And of course, it seems like all the units without models are the really huge ones that are hard to convert.

One hopefull note: I did see this picture on the GW site, with what looks like a Tyrannofex in the background.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=7300010a

One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what do they expect us do do with the Doom of Malan'tai?

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:One hopefull note: I did see this picture on the GW site, with what looks like a Tyrannofex in the background.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=7300010a

One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

That's a bio-titan. Been out a few years.

there are bit shops that would sell the bone swords. just need to use ya head mate

GW used to do their best to avoid putting out lists with units they did not have plans to make miniatures for, but this last year the studio decided to not worry about whether there is plans for miniatures and give people cool rules and a chance for conversions.

Personally I like the this idea.

I've converted bone swords out of the scything talon arms by themselves very easily. A little creativity goes a long ways with conversions.

Boneswords shouldn't be too hard to sculpt out of Greenstuff, or whittle from a Scything Talon.

Tyrannofex seems pretty easy going on the Websites example, and I intend on using the forthcoming plastic Fellbeast as the basis for my version of a Harpy.

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

2nd wave I see being doom of malanti, parasite, harpy (p), tyrannofex/tervigon (p), mycetic spore (p).

Doom of Mal'antai should be a cinche. Take a Zoanthrope, extend ribs using Paperclips and Greenstuff, and to finish, do a Greenstuff hood.

I think all of the new MC's in the Tyranid codex would be a sinch to make. Especially since GW is doing this whole modular / interchangeable bitz thing. They Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Harpy and that other flying MC can all be fabricated out of the plastic kits with a bit of creativity. The only MC I think would be an issue is Doom of Malantai.

And if GW only included rules for the existing kits, people would whine about there not being enough new units in the Codex. Sigh.

Doom isn't a Monstrous Creature. Just given my Codex to my flatmate, so can't check right now, but I'm 99% sure it's just a ponced up Zoanthrope.

Hell, if you want to be lazy, just trawl the Webz for an original Zoanthrope, or use one of the previous with the Head Armour. As long as it's a unique model in your army, only a dill weed would really complain. This for example, even if you just stick it's noggin on a standard Zoanthrope, I'd accept it

Doom of M should be easy for anyone who has bought and built a trygon. After finishing the Trygon the head piece with the spines for the mawloc remains. After a little work with the dremmel and some green stuff and that head piece fits perfectly over the zoey's head. Already built one myself using that piece.

Axyl wrote:Doom of M should be easy for anyone who has bought and built a trygon. After finishing the Trygon the head piece with the spines for the mawloc remains. After a little work with the dremmel and some green stuff and that head piece fits perfectly over the zoey's head. Already built one myself using that piece.

Sounds cool, post pics!

ph34r wrote:

Axyl wrote:Doom of M should be easy for anyone who has bought and built a trygon. After finishing the Trygon the head piece with the spines for the mawloc remains. After a little work with the dremmel and some green stuff and that head piece fits perfectly over the zoey's head. Already built one myself using that piece.

Sounds cool, post pics!

ok!!

Will have to wait a couple hours though...I'm still stuck at work.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces. If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

fullheadofhair wrote:If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

And then people would (and did) moan about not getting any new models for 6 years between Codex updates.

If all the models come out at once, what have you got to look forward to for the next 4-6 years? Plus the codex options would be very limited, as GW only budget for 3-4 plastic kits per release, and not many more than that in metal. Plus many gamers DO love to convert options and models, and an unmodelled unit gives them the freedom to go crazy.

If they had released figs based on the art in the book for Tervigons and T-Fexes, I don't think I would have gotten them. I'm much more psyched about getting to make my own.

As promised:





Personally I'm not sold on the extra spines that I put on the head...may just take them off. I just so happened to discover that the top of the trygon head was nearly the exact same size as the zoanthrope head. Hopefully this will give you other converters out there an idea of how to make your unique zoey's.

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:My little bro got the new codex:nids this weekend, and reading through it I couldn't help but notice how many dudes there were without models. Almost all of the big bugs were model-less: Harpies, Tyrannofex, the Swarmlord, and some others. Is GW going to make these models eventually, or will we have to buy them from Forge World? And of course, it seems like all the units without models are the really huge ones that are hard to convert.

One hopefull note: I did see this picture on the GW site, with what looks like a Tyrannofex in the background.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=7300010a

One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what do they expect us do do with the Doom of Malan'tai?

I almost see them as trying to make a space marine codex but still take advantage of the evolutionary nature of bugs. I'm hoping this is the beginning of GW trying to get back to the days when there was character and great storytelling. Everything seems to have become so bland and 'streamlined' for the purposes of profitability, but I like the idea of having to convert my own stuff. Of course, it would be nice to at least know what size base these new guys should...

fullheadofhair wrote:
Converting is a waste of time...

Whatever. I think someone mentioned something about blanket statements...

The Codex is good for people with old models:
web strangler and "harpoon" gaunts, biocannon-Terrorfex = Armorcast Exocrine, Tervigon = Armorcast Malefactor and so on.

My choice for Doom of M is the Troll Forge Alien Brain (slightly smaller than a Zoanthrop) or better still Alien Pod Brain: http://trollforged.com/shelf_sci-fi_Aliens.html

For the Parasite thingy I take a Konami plastic Alien Queen with Zombie Dragon wings, as Alpha Warrior a normal Warrior with Alien Queen head and some shoulder pads. Harpy is just a Carnifex with Balrog wings, maybe add a Trygon head.

Troll Forge is working on Alien heads for genestealers, making good Yrmgarl Genestealers.

BTW IMHO the Pyrovore and Hive Guard should switch their models, although I won't field both very often.

I hate converting. It really angers me how Space Marines have multiple versions of almost everything despite having the biggest range, and yet Tyranids are released with no models for multiple core choices.
At least this time they had the decency to admit that you had to convert your own- with orks, they mentioned in white dwarf that they were developing a Big Ork Vehicle kit before the 3rd ed codex was released, and then sat around with their thumbs up their asses for 2 editions of the game.

Converting is great. beside just look up on bols. there having an article on it. besides dont blame them space marines are there main source of income. so ofcourse thay will get more.

The OPTION to convert is great. Being forced to convert is really annoying for some people.

no one is forcing you to convert, you could go with a proxy.

At an official tournament? Not bloody likely.
"This carnifex is a tyranofex, and so is this one. But THIS one is a Harpy. This one over here is a troops choice tervigon, that one is my HQ choice. Those three are actually carnifex. Clear?"
"Uh, what?"

well then convert. its not that hard. add wings to a carnifex. its not that hard converting.

*facepalm*

facepalm back at you

garret, you misunderstand.

Some people just won't/don't want to convert. That's it. It can get annoying for those who have few conversion skills. You can't expect everyone to convert.

Anywhoo, I'm on board with Grunt_For_Christ. I like the fact that I am forced to convert, because it makes my army different than the other guy's.

C'mon man be realistic, just make some small additions to the existing models that represent their different powers.
Just use your imagination, that's what this is all about anyway.

Conversion skills are developed through practice!

Besides some people do like converting...

But not everyone likes converting.

Trust me, I like converting. I try to convert as much as possible.

What I'm referring to is Da Boss's posts. Even if converting isn't that hard or is fun to most of us, if some people don't want to it shouldn't connote a negative response.

Cheers Cryonicleech. I'm rubbish at converting, I just don't have very good dexterity or co-ordination. I understand that people like it, but the existence of a kit for particular models does nothing to prevent those people from converting, in fact it makes it even better for them. But for those of us who can't convert the absence of a kit is a major barrier. It would be nice if GW would put up a stage by stage of how to convert tyrannofex and tervigons and harpies on their site. Anything that involves greenstuff sculpting is well beyond my capabilities, and I don't want to spend fifty quid for a model to practice on. I'm especially intolerant of this after years as an ork player. I got heartily sick of being told that ork players were supposed to love converting and that I wasn't a "proper" ork player because I don't enjoy it. The modelling hobby is different for everyone, just because you enjoy something doesn't mean that others will, or should.

Again, I will say, at least GW are being up front and telling players they have to convert this time, instead of giving false hope like they did with orks back in 3rd edition.

Axyl wrote:As promised:





Personally I'm not sold on the extra spines that I put on the head...may just take them off. I just so happened to discover that the top of the trygon head was nearly the exact same size as the zoanthrope head. Hopefully this will give you other converters out there an idea of how to make your unique zoey's.

Nice, very cool looking. I think that it might look better if the carapace was slid back further up his head to expose the Alien/Xenomorph style head more, like in the codex picture, but that's just me.

I like converting, but I don't want to spend dozens of hours making something with no official model, only for GW to then release something that looks better than mine and costs less than all the bits I used. I can't be the only one - how many gamers still use their old home-built drop pods?

I wish GW would announce what models are planned - e.g. if I know there'll be an official mycetic spore model in 6 months then I can make a better choice as to whether to convert my own (and how much effort to put into it) or wait.

Btw, nice conversion Axyl - I like the head 'spines', they give a distinctive look, so long as they're not too fragile...

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.

Welcome to the wonderful world of GW's 'Wave Release System', where not only do we not know when something is coming out, we also don't know if something is coming out. It's 2nd Ed 40K all over again...

Lets not forget how long it took GW to get a plastic drop pod out. The rules were out LOOONG before the kit was, so unfortunately it's likely we will be waiting on some of these models for a while.

The Vulcher can only be made with a Forge World parts kit (or converting), so perhaps we'll see a few new resin heads or body parts from FW that will allow bug characters to be made.

The "mystery" of waves is most likely to prevent people for waiting for appropriate or better models to make purchases. Then when out of the blue BAM new models hit, the theory is that more money is gained by people buying new versions.

I suppose everyone can grumble if they want to. I for example can't stand GW's lack of support for organized play or proper FAQs and Errata. But as far as armies go, if the Tyranids don't have all the models, build another army. Or you can start a nid army of the available models. Or you can wait a while for GW to release a few more nid models and start then. Or you can try converting some of the unavailable stuff. Or you can pay someone to convert some models for you. Or you can proxy models and ignore tournaments.

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

People don't have to play Nids.

Someone said there are heaping options for plastic SMs. If you want an army with heaping plastic options, play SMs. If you like conversions and a unique, 'evolved' look, then Nids are for you.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

OK. Hands up. It was meant to be waste of my time. Bad stupid time to feth on a post. Ironically enough I am multi-tasking as i write this; doing a stupid essay on Nokia and talking to my wife. the point of my post was meant to be that at the minute I bearly have time to build and prime let alone paint. Converting models that should be released is a waste of MY time. However, those who enjoy converting go knock yourself out but post pics as I enjoy looking at them.

So, sorry for crap keyboard skills.

Heh.

The amount of times I've written "not" rather than "now" and vice versa. Changes the meaning of everything.

The plastic kits these days pretty much mean that 'converting' is often no such thing.
Many of these missing models can be made with a convenient bitsmash.
The real art comes in not wasting half a carnifex here or there because that starts to lead to £50+ models and huge bits boxes. 2 kits should=2 models maybe add some balrog wings etc.
All it takes is a bit of planning and sourcing the easiest ways to do things on sites like dakka!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

What exactly would be "doing it correctly" then?

People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.
Not to mention the fact that if models came out right now for every new unit in the codex and to replace old ones you'd have so much nid stuff on the shelves that the shops and customers would be overwhelmed. Then you have the added side effect of having nothing to look forward to until the next codex redo.

I like the way GW is doing things now, putting out codexes full of new options and units is cool, releaseing a wave of new models for each redone army once a year or so is cool.

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.

Yeah, I saw that article and I raged, lol...they most certainly do seem to expect us to shell out $200 fething dollars for a swarmlord.

Gutteridge wrote:there are bit shops that would sell the bone swords. just need to use ya head mate

So, uh...you got any links then? Because I've looked at every bits website I know of and can't find anyone selling boneswords and lash whips individually.

Oxfordseth wrote:GW used to do their best to avoid putting out lists with units they did not have plans to make miniatures for, but this last year the studio decided to not worry about whether there is plans for miniatures and give people cool rules and a chance for conversions.

Personally I like the this idea.

Indeed, it's not really a bad idea...I personally would prefer that they have a model for every option in the book, but the Tyranid codex is really good and probably wouldn't have been if they had to limit themselves only to units that had models available, so I'm not really complaining about that.

What pisses me off is how they're obviously taking advantage of this and really trying to do one over on everyone. There's no other way to get boneswords outside of the hive tyrant kit, you can't even bits order them anymore, so if you want your warriors to be armed with them or take the swarmlord, you have to buy a crap load of tyrant kits at $50 each. They could have at the least released a direct-only accessory sprue for 'nids or something with plastic right and left-handed sword arms (among other things) and just charged $15 for that. They still get their money and I still get to use those units. But no, it seems to be an all-or-nothing deal with GW: either buy a thousand dollars worth of tyrant kits or do without, and I'm sorry but I guess I'd much rather do without.

Same thing with thunderwolves. They could have easily made a plastic kit for them, but no, they released exactly one model, a really crappy-looking $40-something special character. And it just so happens to be one of the best units in the codex and you really really want to take a whole bunch of them...hmm.



Just to clarify...I like converting just fine. I don't like being expected to shell out INSANE amounts of cash to complete those conversions, because you know for a fact GW doesn't intend you to go to eBay or a bits site (like I said, I really am interested in finding a bits site that sells hive tyrant kits parted out, so if you have a link I seriously want one).

Then you have the added side effect of having nothing to look forward to until the next codex redo.

Seeing as how the only armies that have gotten second waves so far are Space Marines and Orks, isn't that already kind of true?

Gargskull wrote:People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.

You forget history. They did it for Dark Eldar. They did it for the Necrons. They did it for the Tau. They used to release everything new for a Codex when the Codex was released, and there were very few gaps in the lines (Orks were a good example of an army with gaps, and, of course, the Eldar did not have their Wave Serpent for quite some time). Now I'm not advocating a return to that, as that sort of business model has its own inherent problems:

1. Too much released at once.
2. Nothing to sustain the army over time.
3. Nothing new for a player for 3-6 years (or 11, if you play DE).
4. Nothing to generate new interest in a product line.

So the old way of releasing everything at once, whilst good if you were interested in that army, wasn't really sustainable IMO. So waves make more sense, but like most things GW does the concept is fantastic, but the execution of that concept leaves much to be desired. Having waves isn't an issue as long as they arrive at regular intervals, and are well signposted. At the very least the Codex should show shots of them to ensure we know that a model is actually coming out. As it stands we now have gaps in the range (Ork Buggies, Flash Gitz, non-starter kit Deff Koptaz, half the tanks in the Guard Codex, Psyker Squads, Penal Legionnaires, half a dozen new Tyranid beasties, various special characters) that all lack models, with no indication that there will ever be a model for said unit. I'm ok with the model not coming out immediately, it would just be nice to know that there is a model coming out.

Agreed, hints or inklings would be really nice. Like if they were going to release a sprue or bonesword/whip bits pack in the next month or two to support the 'nid release, I would feel a lot better (as opposed to feeling almost insulted by the idea of spending $200+ god-damned dollars on just tyrants). But no...

The only book I've seen that had an unreleased model in it, was the Warriors of Chaos book with the plastic DP...and apparently they decided not to release that one after all, lol. Weak.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Gargskull wrote:People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.

You forget history. They did it for Dark Eldar. They did it for the Necrons. They did it for the Tau.

I'm ok with the model not coming out immediately, it would just be nice to know that there is a model coming out.

Most of those ranges were metal and quite small, especially compared to SM's, Orks et al, the new codexes have a lot more stuff as GW is trying to be more forward thinking and give themselves plenty of models to do until the next codex. Hence the big laundry list of wants from Guard and now Tryanid players. Trying to release all of the units in the new codexes in one go when they now want most of them to be plastic would be unfeasible so things had to change.

The second point, well that just takes us right back to "the GW doesn't tell us gak anymore" debate and I'm certainly not going to argue that, the company's silence is incredibly irritating. But, if they did tell us what was coming they then have the problem of broken promises and taking too long to bring stuff to market. See the battlewagon, originally teased with the 3rd ed Ork codex and the now infamous plastic daemon prince.

Some companies make lots of promises and deliver little, other's perfer the under promise and over deliver buisness model and GW seems to be heading that way now releasing good codexes with more new stuff then anyone expected and 'trying' to spring waves of new models on us. I say trying because the internet makes it impossible to keep anything a secret these days.

In other words, keeping quiet about what you're up to is a great stratergy and works well for toy companies like Hasbro and videogames companies as they can put on a good show at trade events and generate lots of good will/hype by having a strong showing of new product. It would work well for GW too if all they made was models but they don't and therein lies the real problem they have.

The new codexes are a roadmap of sorts pointing the way to future releases, if it were still 2nd edition style with new releases having rules printed in WD then they can do what they like and no one is any the wiser but that leads to messy games and was of course the reason 3rd ed 40k was streamlined to begin with!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that GW can't really win because of the nature of them selling both rules and models, no matter what release stratergy they choose there's always going to be some huge flaw somewhere. :(

Axyl wrote:Doom of M should be easy for anyone who has bought and built a trygon. After finishing the Trygon the head piece with the spines for the mawloc remains. After a little work with the dremmel and some green stuff and that head piece fits perfectly over the zoey's head. Already built one myself using that piece.

Yep, I noticed this last night after finishing a Trygon- the Mawloc head plate works wonders, and fits really well over the Zoanthrope head. Even for amateur modelers who don't want to use Green Stuff and so on, the Mawloc head will still fit well. I was amazed at how well they go together

@OP: The 'Tyrannofex' is actually a FW Scythed Hierodule. Decent 'counts-as' model for a T-Fex though.

As for the other units without models...most are very easy to make, but I can understand the disappointment for people who don't like converting. As for myself, I like making my own stuff and doing conversion work, so it should be fun. Already got a Tervigon planned, and trying to get ideas for a Tyranid Prime (no-one has a spare Red Terror head, I take it :( )

I also wish they picked different models for the initial release. I love the plastic Trygon kit, and the new plastic Gargoyles.

The Ravener models are nice, but I haven't seen any army list that contains them yet, as they have the same problems gameplay wise as the last codex.

The Pyrovore and Venomtrhope don't look to become very popular either.

But the Hive Guard, which is looking to be a very popular model, comes in a 1 variant metal blister.

If it were up to me, I would have substituted the plastic Ravener kit with a kit of 3 Hive/Tyrant Guard, would have been a lot more popular. The metal blister could then be a bits package with boneswords and such.

Venomthrope? Not popular? I guess people don't believe in swarming up with their Nids. I'd have thought a Venomthrope would be the top of people's lists for new purchases. Granted on it's own it's quite squishy, but mob it up with Warriors and Gaunts, and you have a nice little task force for holding objectives, and generally annoying the enemy.

Pyrovore is an odd one, and needs a little subtlety. I've got one so far, as I'm playing a Cities of Death game this weekend and rather fancy a gribbly Heavy Flamer. Plus the chance of it exploding is just too amusing not to use. Combined with it's Acid Blood, I have no qualms whatsoever of bunging it into a tooled up assault squad, just to take a few with it.

Hive Guard are indeed stonking, but I doubt I'd want anymore than the brood of three currently purchased.

Raveners, well, I've always been a sucker for them, and now they can have other things popping up with them (Trygon Prime for me) I've got 8 now (would have had 9, but some sod pinched one the other week).

ginger_nid_dude wrote:2nd wave I see being doom of malanti, parasite, harpy (p), tyrannofex/tervigon (p), mycetic spore (p).

Probably wont be a second wave. Demons never got one.

RE: Boneswords, I don't know what kit they're from but these guys have a great range of bits at good prices with flat rate shippinga nd they will try and get specific bits if you ask nicely enough;
http://bitsandkits.co.uk/shop/category_48/TYRANIDS.html?shop_param=cid%3D%26

The organic look of Tyranids lends itself to freehand sculpting of new bits so it should not be too difficult to make some of these items which are lacking.

Boneswords don't exist in any kit save for the Hive Tyrant.

I looked over at ApocaBitzNow.com and they have the hive tyrant kit split up for sale...everything but the right arm with bonesword.

What the hell? The one part I'm most interested in, and they don't have it. I doubt they're just out of stock since it's not even listed. Regardless I shot them an e-mail asking about that.

Sidstyler wrote:I looked over at ApocaBitzNow.com and they have the hive tyrant kit split up for sale...everything but the right arm with bonesword.

What the hell? The one part I'm most interested in, and they don't have it. I doubt they're just out of stock since it's not even listed. Regardless I shot them an e-mail asking about that.

That is an awesome name.

Oxfordseth wrote:GW used to do their best to avoid putting out lists with units they did not have plans to make miniatures for, but this last year the studio decided to not worry about whether there is plans for miniatures and give people cool rules and a chance for conversions.

Personally I like the this idea.

I'm ambivalent about it myself. I'm still waiting for those daemons from the Daemon codex. Not announcing whether daemonic HQs will ever be released or plastic horrors for example, doesn't really encourage me to look at the army as one I'd play.

I don't understand how not releasing models in the codex will encourage new players. I would think new players would be turned off by not being able to play what is in the codex and leave the game earlier. I hope GW has market research to prove that wrong.

Someone said that the new system is to avoid broken promises. Well, my response is straightforward- they shouldn't have broken the damn promises in the first place!

PP are able to give a solid release schedule and miniature for every entry. GW not being able to do the same is a joke.

As for the "don't play tyranids" argument, I won't be playing tyranids, don't worry. But it doesn't stop me being irritated by GWs stupid decisions.

Kilkrazy wrote:People don't have to play Nids.

Well then I guess I'm shelving my Nid army.

Kilkrazy wrote:The organic look of Tyranids lends itself to freehand sculpting of new bits so it should not be too difficult to make some of these items which are lacking.

I have no skill with sculpting, and I really have no desire to learn.

Doesn't this really all fall under the classification of "whining"?

If you want to play nids in it's current state you play with what's available or you convert.

Isn't it really that simple?

GG

Some of the whine in this thread about 'having to convert' models is beyond ridiculous. I think the new style army books with tons of legal units are absolutely fantastic, whether the units have models or not. Anyone remember the old Eldar codex where you had army list entries for stuff like Exodite Dragon Riders? Good times.

I guess some people are simply playing the wrong game. This is a modelling and painting hobby first and a gaming hobby second. Sometimes I wish it wasn't, since I'm not very artistic and I've comissioned paint jobs for a few armies already, but that's the hard truth. It's also the hard truth that most people stay in this hobby for the imaginative background material and those painting and modelling options, not because the rules for the games would be somehow fantastic or even competitive. If you can't figure out how to get a few bone swords for your Tyrant without buying a plastic kit or even worse a pre-painted rubber toy soldier that's ready straight ouf the box you're simply playing the wrong game. I'll give you a tip however, either order the bitz from the magical interweb, do a bitz swap with some other hobbyist, use bitz of other things like scythes as counts-as weapons, or cut a few sword-like pieces out of plasticard which is very economically priced. This isn't even a hard one and you don't need to do any sculpting.

Anyway, I know people are different, but I can say that my best friend is starting Tyranids now for the first time simply because now they offer so many chances for kit-bashing and converting and have tons of variant and exotic creatures and army lists. To each their own.

generalgrog wrote:Doesn't this really all fall under the classification of "whining"?

If you want to play nids in it's current state you play with what's available or you convert.

Isn't it really that simple?

GG

So what if it is?

If that's the current state for the Nids then I, personally, don't like it.

The one problem I had with the dex on the issue of converting is that...if it is so easy to make a tyranofex or tervigon with a trygon and fex kit, then why didn't they convert and paint one and put it in the codex? If they at least had a pic of a converted model instead of the vague pictures in their entry then at least we all would have a slight standard as to what they would look like or what we can try instead of just saying "buy two $50 kits and make it".

1.) You don't HAVE to take the units that currently have no model, there are enough other good units.
2.) Even with low converting skills it is quite easy to find more or less fitting, mostly non-GW alternatives. Tervigon (Armorcast Malefactor, FW Hierodule, Horrorclix Alien Queen with birthing sac, Carnifex on talons with a big belly),etc. There are some ideas in this thread already.
3.) It leaves room for a second wave and marks a departure of the former one-release-per-gamer-generation-policy. It also leaves room for conversion articles in WD.
4.) It is better to include nice rules without models than just leaving those cool ideas out of the Codex.
5.) Building and painting is part of the hobby. Some challenges are for beginners (snap-fit), some for advanced modellers (Harlequin). Conversions are a way to improve your hobby skills. If you don't like conversions at all, see above.

Vengis wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:People don't have to play Nids.

Well then I guess I'm shelving my Nid army.

Kilkrazy wrote:The organic look of Tyranids lends itself to freehand sculpting of new bits so it should not be too difficult to make some of these items which are lacking.

I have no skill with sculpting, and I really have no desire to learn.

During the ACW, President Lincoln once sent a telegram to General McClellan of the Army Of The Potomac to say if the General was not using the army for a while he would like to borrow it.

Eh, it just leaves room for us small hobbyist-ran companies to fill in the gaps..

Patience goes a long way though, since we are not GW with thier army of slaves, er sculptors.

Believe me, give it 1-2 months and there will be tons of boen swords, heads, and conversion kits to make your favorite monstrous creature.

Nick

Da Boss wrote:Someone said that the new system is to avoid broken promises. Well, my response is straightforward- they shouldn't have broken the damn promises in the first place!

PP are able to give a solid release schedule and miniature for every entry. GW not being able to do the same is a joke.

As for the "don't play tyranids" argument, I won't be playing tyranids, don't worry. But it doesn't stop me being irritated by GWs stupid decisions.

Put simply:
Privateer doesn't release nearly as much plastic/metal as GW does with a single year's release, and it shows. Privateer also runs the old model that GW used, where you end up waiting and waiting for that single wave of releases...and then get nothing until the next expansion/edition.

And that's not counting the times where it's just a change to the product code or reboxing an older kit with new sprues.

Kilkrazy wrote:

During the ACW, President Lincoln once sent a telegram to General McClellan of the Army Of The Potomac to say if the General was not using the army for a while he would like to borrow it.

I'd rather burn my Nids than give/sell them to someone like you who wants to tell me how I should enjoy my hobby.

Why wasn't this a huge issue during the 10 year ork run of no vehicles?

ShumaGorath wrote:Why wasn't this a huge issue during the 10 year ork run of no vehicles?

C'mon Shuma, it's because Orks are supposed to make everything from random junk!

Kanluwen wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Why wasn't this a huge issue during the 10 year ork run of no vehicles?

C'mon Shuma, it's because Orks are supposed to make everything from random junk!

because they want you to buy more land raiders and make them into battle wagons!

Kurgash wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Why wasn't this a huge issue during the 10 year ork run of no vehicles?

C'mon Shuma, it's because Orks are supposed to make everything from random junk!

because they want you to buy more land raiders and make them into battle wagons!

They, still want us to do this now, to some extent. There isnt a model for the Looted Wagon, after all.

Jeezy Chreezy I haven't heard this much whining since we last had a thread on the Chaos Marines Codex.

Every codex has unit entries or options with no models. I swear if GW had released a Nids codex with no new units people would still be bitching that there was nothing new. T-Fexes, Tervigons, etc are all options, you don't have to take them to use the new Nid codex, your Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants still work fine. Just be patient and GW will give you your new bugs. We all know GW likes to make money, do you really think they aren't going to release T-fex and Tervigon models?

Ozymandias wrote:
Every codex has unit entries or options with no models. I swear if GW had released a Nids codex with no new units people would still be bitching that there was nothing new.

Actually my Necron codex is well represented with a model for all 11 unit types. I appreciate the support my army of choice has gotten from GW. I don't have to worry about waiting for new models, upgrades or any of that nonsense. Heck... all my Elite, Troops, FA, and Heavy units only get one weapon choice too. Awesome. GW rocks the old codexes hard. I completely agree with the OP that they should not release new codexes with variety and depth and cool Azz stuff without any thought to the guys that want everything RIGHT NOW. It just is a poor business model.

I can't think of anything my Tau army has in the codex that isn't available on the rack.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I can't think of anything my Tau army has in the codex that isn't available on the rack.

Shield drones. Oh, you meant inside of other boxes too. It probably helps that the tau book has been out for years.

ShumaGorath wrote:Why wasn't this a huge issue during the 10 year ork run of no vehicles?

It was a huge issue. It's still a minor issue.
If you check my old posts, you'll see I wasn't happy with that situation either.

As for people telling me what my hobby is, cheers. You'll note I don't do the same when you guys complain about aspects of the game you find annoying. I'm pretty disgusted with the attitude on here.

jgemrich wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:
Every codex has unit entries or options with no models. I swear if GW had released a Nids codex with no new units people would still be bitching that there was nothing new.

Actually my Necron codex is well represented with a model for all 11 unit types. I appreciate the support my army of choice has gotten from GW. I don't have to worry about waiting for new models, upgrades or any of that nonsense. Heck... all my Elite, Troops, FA, and Heavy units only get one weapon choice too. Awesome. GW rocks the old codexes hard. I completely agree with the OP that they should not release new codexes with variety and depth and cool Azz stuff without any thought to the guys that want everything RIGHT NOW. It just is a poor business model.

Lucky! I wish my army was so old it was barely competitive anymore. Luckily Eldar will always be competitive, right?....right?

Which is of course your point. They complain about not getting models while you haven't had a codex in what? I mean think of poor DE...

Oh and I should point out- I have no problem with the wave system, if everything gets released inside a timeframe GW lay out for me. If they tell me "Wave 2 is this time next year!" I'm happy, as long as they stick to that. Leaving it open ended is where my issue is.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I can't think of anything my Tau army has in the codex that isn't available on the rack.

Shield drones. Oh, you meant inside of other boxes too. It probably helps that the tau book has been out for years.

Actually, what I meant is I can buy shield drones as they are actually made by GW. In fact, that and the hammerhead sprue is the only Tau bitz GW deigns to sell.

Newness of a codex doesn't really matter either. How long did it take to get GW marine drop pods and official wave serpents?

Dal'yth Dude wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I can't think of anything my Tau army has in the codex that isn't available on the rack.

Shield drones. Oh, you meant inside of other boxes too. It probably helps that the tau book has been out for years.

Actually, what I meant is I can buy shield drones as they are actually made by GW. In fact, that and the hammerhead sprue is the only Tau bitz GW deigns to sell.

Newness of a codex doesn't really matter either. How long did it take to get GW marine drop pods and official wave serpents?

Codex newness isn't the argument. Nid players now have an updated codex yay! But it's missing some models?! Screw it don't play nids. Whereas Necrons have 100% of the models they can field! Yes! Oh wait... they are so far behind it doesnt matter that they have models. Screw it don't play necrons. A necron player would very likely rather see a new 'dex with 10 new, modelless units and updated rules than have all their units represented but be stuck in older editions (Necron players if I'm wrong let me know).

Hopefully there will be updates in the future, but since it is has not been announced by GW, I doubt any models will emerge for many years.

This annoys me, I can understand how some people would not mind, as they are skilled in converting/ able to spend enormous amounts of money on bits.

All in all, the buck has been passed onto the gamers, which I find to be exceptionally annoying. The attitude of 'Convert or GTFO' IS a particularly offensive attitude. It is not as if people can't do it, just many are limited in ways that basically defeat the purpose from the start. I for one, have never been a fan of the idea that I would chop an expensive model up (with what BTW, a freaking razor-handsaw? Or should people just drop a few hundred more on advanced tools, BEFORE they even start a 200$ conversion?) and run the risk of not having the skills to make a nice conversion, leaving me with a garbled pile of bitz.

If anything, I expect smaller companies to fill many of these gaps, but I am simply not convinced that they will be able to do it at a reasonable cost. Not to say that there would not be options, just that you would not actually be saving all that much overall.

I do agree that it would be nice to see more conversions and creativity in the hobby, but I would never REQUIRE it of anyone, it is their hobby too.

The only sense I can make out of all of this, is that GW is focusing on their other lines, and Tyranids are simply going to take a backseat to the next few codices to come out. Unfortunately, this does mean a lot of Nid players, simply are not going to have effective means of actually playing their games. I hope that people will give enough wiggle room to the Nid players, so they can actually be able to use the entire codex. Try and be flexible on the proxies, and help your fellow hobbyists enjoy their games, because GW sure as hell isn't trying.

Wrexasaur wrote:The only sense I can make out of all of this, is that GW is focusing on their other lines, and Tyranids are simply going to take a backseat to the next few codices to come out.

This happens all the time. GW's primary marketing drive for Planetstrike, for example, was over in the space of about two weeks.

Well as was previously mentioned, Proxies (while not working out so well in tournaments) are just fine for a friendly game. And I'm sure if they are not up already guides for converting a Zoanthrope to say a Doom of Malan'tai are just around the corner, probably offering easy/cheap ways to do it. (GW guides or third party, w/e)

I also understand the argument for more models, but in all reality (as was previously mentioned) the hobby aspect of 40K kind of overrides the game aspect in many people's eyes. Me? I love painting and I want to get into modelling, but I also want to play with my creations rather than let them get dusty on a shelf so I can kind of see both sides. I don't know, just my two cents.

CrazyThang wrote:I also understand the argument fro more models, but in all reality (as was previously mentioned) the hobby aspect of 40K kind of overrides the game aspect in many people's eyes. Me? I love painting and I want to get into modelling, but I also want to play with my creations rather than let them get dusty on a shelf so I can kind of see both sides. I don't know, just my two cents.

There are many aspects to wargaming as an entire hobby. Most associate painting, directly with the hobby aspect. Many, many, many others, are not interested in converting/ sculpting/ scratch-building/ whatever you want to call 'making your own models'. This is my favorite part of the hobby, and I am teaching my self to sculpt at smaller scales because: I can, I want to, and I enjoy it. I hope to create various, fully envisioned, 'alternative counts as armies', so that I can contribute something back to the community.

That said though, 'demanding' more than painting from a fellow gamer, is ridiculous in my eyes, to say the least. In general, I would consider highly converted armies to always be the exception, and in no way the rule. It takes enough time as it is for a person to paint a large army as it is(minimum of 20 hours in general, not counting assembly), without asking thrice that for advanced converting. Besides being well beyond many peoples means/ skillsets, it sets an elite standard, that is bound to drive many people away from the hobby, entirely. Why would someone with little skills in converting, spend time on both that, AND painting, whilst they could save all that time invested (most of which they were not interested in from the beginning), just buying a few new video games instead?

I could hardly blame someone leaving the hobby, because they enjoy gaming, and not collecting.

Not trying to bite your face off, I know you were just putting this out there.

AHHH my face!

But yeah I see what you mean and like I said, "the hobby aspect overrides... in many people's eyes...", not necessarily mine. If someone came up to me and said "Well you can't play because your Spinnerette Rifle is just a starcannon glued to an exarch it needs to be modelled to look exactly like it should!" yes I would not be happy with that.
Example: my friend forgot his chappy at home. Rather than make him go get it, I let him borrow a DA I wasn't using, I didn't care. We had a fun game that was not at all hindered by his lack of chappy.

Rambling aside: The point I am trying to make is that the game is still fun! Sure I want to see my opponents fully painted/customed army but if they are using all grey space marines I won't care (and this should honestly be the general attitude I mean lets all just have fun in our own way without ruining other's fun yeah?). Man now you have, like, 4 of my cents.

To all the people worried about converting. Have you forgotten forgeworld? In a few months I'm sure you'll be seeing something coming out from them. It didn't take them long to make a warboss biker or ogre rhinox riders.

GG

Well forgeworld may be out of some people's price ranges...

Wrexasaur wrote:

If anything, I expect smaller companies to fill many of these gaps, but I am simply not convinced that they will be able to do it at a reasonable cost. Not to say that there would not be options, just that you would not actually be saving all that much overall.

Wrex, may I call you Wrex?

Our goal is to have Tyranofex and Tervigon conversion kits for the Carnifex in 2-3 months. Our price objective is in the 15-25$ price range.

Personally, as a nid player I dont see this as too expensive for a price. GWs solution for players is to buy 2 of their $50 kits and convert a Tervigon or Tyranofex. Our solution calls for one Carnifex (which most of us have laying around collecting dust thanks to the new rules for them) and a relatively inexpensive bits kit. There will be next to no cutting needed for these kits as we are trying to sculpt them so they fit over the carnifex in place of or on top of the model.

I dont know about the named charactes as of yet, barring the Swarmlord, we dont have any concepts or thoughts on them.

You will see Ymargl stealer heads soon enough as well as some nice boneswords and lashwhips for warriors and Tyrants (say hi to the swarmlord.).

As a hobbyist I think GW dropped the ball on this, I am not too sad though. If GW did release a kit for these models it would be pretty pricy, a sword sprue I could see them charging $20 for...

Nick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:Well forgeworld may be out of some people's price ranges...

My thoughts and fears exactly....

Forge World is like the Elitist version of GW... but you cant seriously expect FW to be used to convert some of the most needed models in the tyranid codex?

I think FW maybe accounts for less then 5-10% of worlds 40k model range in players hands..

I have heard from some good sources that GW does NOT plan on doing the missing Nid models anytime soon (aka this year). Take that for what its worth though, I am not all that sad if they leave them missing for a while.

Forge World is like the Elitist version of GW... but you cant seriously expect FW to be used to convert some of the most needed models in the tyranid codex?

Most of the new kits can be relatively easily converted from either a carnifex or trygon kit, and it's unlikely you would need multiples of a few of them (doom, parasite, swarmlord, deathleaper, harpy, etc). Its not a tremendous solution, but these won't really be the most difficult conversions in the world compared to some previous missing items with no comparable models forcing a player to go outside the game (battlewagon, drop pod, Deathstrike, wave serpant, MotFwCB, etc).

Hopefully they'll announce some conversion kits or new models soon though.

Crazythang: I was responding to the post from ShumaGorath which I quoted. He was the one that suggested new codexes may not have all their models available.

Until the past year or two GW has only rarely not had a model for a unit in a Codex. The drop pod and wave serpent are notable exceptions. In fact new units were quite rare from 2nd ed until 5th ed.

While people go back and forth on whether converting is the solution (t works for some but not everybody), nobody has AFAIK mentioned how it affects the new gamer which is presumably GW's target market. Does GW expect new gamers to just start converting stuff in the codex but not on the shelves? I don't know. Maybe some new players would, but I suspect just as many wouldn't bother. The GW cone of silence doesn't really help either.

Ah well there was a bit of a misunderstanding then. I totally get what your saying.

If anything, I expect smaller companies to fill many of these gaps, but I am simply not convinced that they will be able to do it at a reasonable cost. Not to say that there would not be options, just that you would not actually be saving all that much overall.

Dunno, we (chapterhouse) are quite cheap actually. From the very start we wanted to scale down on the prices and make things cheaper then you have with the ordinary bitz sellers.
Personally I frown upon paying 85 cents for one lousy plastic marine knife taken from a sprue, paying that for somehting the seller hasnt even made himself was never what I liked in the first place.

Be is still expensive or not, not all small companies are having forgeworld (on specialised kits) or bitzbarn (on common bitz) prices. Better many can afford something we make rather then just 10% of the hobbyists who have good jobs.

Part of the issue is GW's reluctance (apparently shared by many on Dakka these days) to do metal or metal hybrid kits. Metal kits can be put out for a faction of the cost (to GW), and save you from all that "terrible" converting.

Releasing blisters of even basic troop types used to be the way that GW did business, and in my opinion still should be. Then there would be fewer range gaps.

Chapterhouse wrote:Wrex, may I call you Wrex?

Of course, .

Our goal is to have Tyranofex and Tervigon conversion kits for the Carnifex in 2-3 months. Our price objective is in the 15-25$ price range.

That sounds pretty good. I was generically referring to several companies, Forgeworld included.

A Carnifex is like 45$ if I am not mistaken, plus 15-25$, is about 60-70$. That works out to be a good price.

I have taken a look at some of your work, and it is quite nice. The new Genestealer heads are cool.

Good luck setting all that up.

I love converting and have all the new stuff converted already or have the plans in place. (Hurry up chaperhouse, I'm impatient!) My biggest irritation is that they don't tell you the base size it's supposed to be. Some is straight forward, but others like the tervigon/tfex- is it supposed to be the 60mm round or the oval? I don't want to make it bigger than it's supposed to be (LOS) but I don't want to have to switch bases after I've modelled it. At least they put some pics up on the website but still. The biggest ball dropper was the boneswords. Huge addition to the codex (power weapons) but no kit. Sure I can convert, but I plan on using alot of them so it's a bit irritating. I like the wave system, I just wish they had some kind of schedule we knew about. Hopefully they will do a Hierodule kit with the 2nd wave!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.

Welcome to the wonderful world of GW's 'Wave Release System', where not only do we not know when something is coming out, we also don't know if something is coming out. It's 2nd Ed 40K all over again...

But with better sculpts and twice the grimdark!
But seriously, like most people I like to convert models. It gives you a great sense of creatiity and imagination. But alot of people have to realize, that not everyone feels the same. But no one should get pissed at another user for having a different view on moddeling.
But that's just my can of worms on this matter.

I like converting.

I don't like having to convert Codex entries because the models do not exist unless the models in question have been specifically set up to be conversions/kitbashes (like LatD Mutants).

generalgrog wrote:To all the people worried about converting. Have you forgotten forgeworld? In a few months I'm sure you'll be seeing something coming out from them. It didn't take them long to make a warboss biker or ogre rhinox riders.

I think a counterpoint is that Forge World doesn't march lockstep with the design studio in terms of releases. They didn't release any of the missing IG tanks (Eradicator, Colossus, Deathstrike), even though they easily could have. They made the Vendetta, sure, but it looks like they're not at all interested in systematically filling the gaps left by GW releases.

I think new codex opens doors and closes some... we have waited for years for trygon kit and plastic gargs... also this codex introduces SO MANY new bugs, and justice has to be made they actually produced lots of new miniatures for this codex.
I have no problems with converting and sculpting my own new bugs, in fact I have great pleasure doing so, although I do understand those that dont like it or lack the skills and patience to do so... To them I say please be a bit patient I only have so little time to cooperate with miniatures companies that provide an alternative for you.
I promise I will do my best to finish up some cool stuff for you asap, and I also understand with the release of new dex people are very anxious yet my time resources are a pain to organize.

I will work a bit to help out you guys... just please give me some months to flesh out all alternatives.

If you can't figure out how to get a few bone swords for your Tyrant without buying a plastic kit or even worse a pre-painted rubber toy soldier that's ready straight ouf the box you're simply playing the wrong game. I'll give you a tip however, either order the bitz from the magical interweb, do a bitz swap with some other hobbyist, use bitz of other things like scythes as counts-as weapons, or cut a few sword-like pieces out of plasticard which is very economically priced. This isn't even a hard one and you don't need to do any sculpting.

I know for a fact I'm not "playing the wrong game" because GW would throw a fit if I showed up in their stores to play with parts from toys they didn't make. lmao

As for the rest of your helpful tips, I've been trying to order the bits from the interwebs. NO ONE HAS THEM. ApocaBitz is sold out (I got a reply wee!) and no other bits site I've browsed even sells hive tyrant bits (though maybe I'm not trying hard enough, I guess I need to send off e-mails to all of them begging them to buy a bunch of $50 kits so I can have one part from them...yeah I don't see that working out). Nothing on eBay so far, either.*

*Ha, got lucky and found an auction. With a Buy It Now option no less. *pounce*

I'll say this though, if anyone here has extra boneswords/lash whips from the current hive tyrant kit they have no use for, drop me a PM because I'd really be interested.

Finally, I personally am not a fan of the scything talon "counts-as" bonesword that I've seen. It's just a backwards scything talon, even if it's cut down it's still obvious that it's a scything talon and I just don't like the look of it. I won't complain if I see it on other models, but I won't do that for my own.

Cool that you got one, but before you glue it on to anything you might want to take a look at making duplicates of it. It's not too hard or expensive to do and it could save you having to hunt down more as it sounds like they're going to be hard to get.

http://www.hirstarts.com/moldmake/moldmaking.html has a clear and concise guide on making simple rubber moulds for recasting parts and it's not illegal as long as they're for your own use I belive.

I'll say this though, if anyone here has extra boneswords/lash whips from the current hive tyrant kit they have no use for, drop me a PM because I'd really be interested.

I don't know about boneswords but Lash whips for your Warriors/Shrikes/Tyranid Primes are easily obtained in the Venomthrope blister.

The blister is $20 and contains 4 INDIVIDUAL Lash whips that are the perfect size for warriors. 2 Left Side, 2 Right side. No Converting is necessary. Just attach and go.

At retail it becomes $5 a lashwhip. $4 a whip using 20% off available at several online retailers.

Here is my weapons swapped Warrior.

Vengis wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

During the ACW, President Lincoln once sent a telegram to General McClellan of the Army Of The Potomac to say if the General was not using the army for a while he would like to borrow it.

I'd rather burn my Nids than give/sell them to someone like you who wants to tell me how I should enjoy my hobby.

Why so antagonistic?

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things.

Ooh, good call, jgemrich. I'm thinking that you could probably use the Venomthrope's body as the basis for a Harpy, too, with a spare Carnifex head & limbs, & scratchbuilt or bits-supplier-bought wings.

"All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things."

Which has all of what to do with what exactly, hey KK?

Codex entries should be represented by models. There should be no gaps in the line. It's ok if they don't come out immediately - wave releases are fine - but the models themselves should exist.

Think back to the real Chaos Marine Codex in 3rd Ed - the Defiler had no model, and loads of people made their own from Dreads and I even saw one clever one made from a Land Speeder (with LOOOOOONG legs). But we knew the model was coming. Didn't know when, we just knew it was coming. And then it did. The people who converted theirs were happy, and those that didn't were content to wait.

But now? Are Ork players ever going to get Flash Gitz? A new Buggy/Trakk? How 'bout a Deff Kopta that you don't have to buy a boxed game to get. Daemon Chariots? Griffon? Psyker Battle Squad? Colossos? Leman Russ Eradicator? Tervigon? Tyrannofex?

It'd be fine if we had pics of these models in the Codex, so we knew that they existed, despite no release date. We'd know they were coming. But the current situation... no... not knowing when something will come is one thing. Not knowing if is a completely different thing altogether.

Gargskull wrote:Cool that you got one, but before you glue it on to anything you might want to take a look at making duplicates of it. It's not too hard or expensive to do and it could save you having to hunt down more as it sounds like they're going to be hard to get.

http://www.hirstarts.com/moldmake/moldmaking.html has a clear and concise guide on making simple rubber moulds for recasting parts and it's not illegal as long as they're for your own use I belive.

Ah, I don't know...that was discussed at length here on Dakka before and I'm not really sure it's something I want to get into.

This may be naive but whatever, I'm going to post it anyway...

Hasn't Gamesworkshop said in the past that their plan is for every new unit in each codex to have a model?

I took that as, even if it does take them a long time to do so they will eventually fill all those gaps.

Kilkrazy wrote:Why so antagonistic?

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things.

And I have SM and Tau armies. But I also have a 3rd edition Nid army, which used to be almost entirely represented. I think the only models that weren't were the Flying Tyrants, Warriors, and Ripper Swarms. I don't think that changed in the 4th edition book either. But now in 5th, suddenly there's a bunch of choices (some of them really good, game wise) that aren't represented. So up until this book, I had an army with a full model range that avoided the need to sculpt things.

Now, I'm told that I should just play another army if I don't want to convert things, like it was a bad choice to pick Nids because I should have expected a lot of converting. Or that converting isn't actually that hard and I shouldn't complain about having to do it. Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. Or even better; that I'm playing the wrong game and should quit.

That's why I'm antagonistic.

Vengis wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why so antagonistic?

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things.

And I have SM and Tau armies. But I also have a 3rd edition Nid army, which used to be almost entirely represented. I think the only models that weren't were the Flying Tyrants, Warriors, and Ripper Swarms. I don't think that changed in the 4th edition book either. But now in 5th, suddenly there's a bunch of choices (some of them really good, game wise) that aren't represented. So up until this book, I had an army with a full model range that avoided the need to sculpt things.

Now, I'm told that I should just play another army if I don't want to convert things, like it was a bad choice to pick Nids because I should have expected a lot of converting. Or that converting isn't actually that hard and I shouldn't complain about having to do it. Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. Or even better; that I'm playing the wrong game and should quit.

That's why I'm antagonistic.

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

NAVARRO wrote:

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

Wait a couple months for what?

Where did I say I was going to quit? I said I was shelving my Nid army, yes. That doesn't mean I'm quitting 40k, or that I'm never going to play my Nids again; I'll just wait until they release the models for the new units.

The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

as far as bone swords go, a person i play often went the way of taking spine fists and gluing those bladed spines from several Nid sprues. Looks pretty damn good and not cheesy like upside down talons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
next time i see them I'll post pics

I dont wanna convert.. *pouts*

Dakka is hilarious. Harden up.

Also

Thunderwolf calvary is way harder to convert (and has a gak model as a base) then this swarm lord.

Think of JJs grav tank from a deodorant bottle. Conversion has been part of this hobby from the beginning. Accept it or play space marines.

I gotta say, that's some attitude isn't it? You ever complain about anything GW does and all their fans tell you to shut up and quit if you don't like it. You complain about being forced to convert or the lack of models for options in codices and get the same response, "Go play a different game then!"

You know, for a bunch of people who seem to be supportive of GW they're sure doing all they can to kill their business, lol.

The attitude from some users on this thread is disgusting.
I never knew there was this hidden core of elitism on Dakkadakka.

Shaman wrote:

Conversion has been part of this hobby from the beginning. Accept it or play space marines.

Except for that part about the Tyranid book being fully represented (other than a couple biomorphs) up until a few weeks ago.

fullheadofhair wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces. If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

Up until this comment the "elitist" people were simply posting helpful conversion information. Honestly I don't see why they are elitist for defending themselves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to tell someone to get out of the miniature wargaming hobby because they were unhappy with one aspect of it.
Dakka has a reputation for being a straight talking, rough and ready website. That doesn't justify this level of snobbery.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Ooh, good call, jgemrich. I'm thinking that you could probably use the Venomthrope's body as the basis for a Harpy, too, with a spare Carnifex head & limbs, & scratchbuilt or bits-supplier-bought wings.

IMO, the venomthrope body is too small for the Harp as it is an MC. I am doing a conversion with it for the Parasite of Mortrex. I think it will be easy to place winge in the slots reserved for the pipes and outfit him w/ small leftover scything talons from most any of the kits.

CrazyThang wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces. If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

Up until this comment the "elitist" people were simply posting helpful conversion information. Honestly I don't see why they are elitist for defending themselves.

You'll note my elitist comment didn't come out until people told me I was in the wrong hobby for not converting. I think it's perfectly justified to call those people elitist. I have absolutely no problem with people converting their own miniatures, I'll play against all sorts of proxies and converted homebrew stuff. However, I am not good at it, and I don't like paying money to ugly up a miniature with my substandard skills. I have a VERY limited gaming budget, and I want everything I buy to be useful AND look good. This is all about personal choice. For converters, not having models is no big deal. Having a model to work on is often better. For those of us who can't or don't enjoy converting, or don't have the funds for it, it's a pretty big problem. I certainly don't appreciate having my opinions dismissed as they have been in this thread, in a very rude manner. I have never "attacked" converters, so I don't see why they would need to "defend" themselves.
I've got to say I've not been this pissed off by a thread on dakka for a long time.

Maybe these "elitists" are just taking something they can't control in stride? I do feel it is wrong to say things like "play a different army" or "quit" (which if you actually look at that conversation you will see that it started when one of the people who doesn't want to convert said they would quit as a hypothetical and someone took it literally). But as was mentioned a few pages back, would it be better to get a codex with literally nothing new? Or wait another year or 2 so they could release models with it?

It would be better, as I've already explained, if GW gave us a reasonable release schedule for what was coming out, and stuck to it. I wouldn't mind waiting a year, or even two, for models, as long as I knew they were coming eventually.

I agree. But they didn't. Bad bussiness? (I can never spell that word :/ ) Yes. Something we can control? Not really... Yes models would have been a nice thing, at least some models to keep people interested.

And when I see someone making a bad business decision, I like to point it out. It makes me feel better. A lot of people do that here. I've rarely seen someone be told to change hobbies because they were unhappy with FAQ support, for example. That is why this thread has me more annoyed than usual. It's more than usually bitchy.

@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

Five pages in the News & Rumors section with no news or rumors....Interesting very interesting....

Shaman wrote:@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

So. We shouldn't complain about GW being crap because GW is crap, and we should never expect them to improve because they are crap.

You can't look past yourself and see someone else's point of view, and as long as everyone does something, it's okay.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things."

Which has all of what to do with what exactly, hey KK?

Codex entries should be represented by models. There should be no gaps in the line. It's ok if they don't come out immediately - wave releases are fine - but the models themselves should exist.

...

That's one view, and it is reasonable given how you see the hobby overall, which is buy the models and play the game -- GW as a full service supplier.

My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

Orks is an example where a standard model for vehicles actually looks a bit silly because the army fluff is that everything is hand built.

I'm not making an ethical fuss about this. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to convert stuff and there are plenty of armies with full lines which fulfil that need.

I expect the missing Nids will appear in due course and everyone will be happy.

Da Boss wrote:And when I see someone making a bad business decision, I like to point it out. It makes me feel better. A lot of people do that here. I've rarely seen someone be told to change hobbies because they were unhappy with FAQ support, for example. That is why this thread has me more annoyed than usual. It's more than usually bitchy.

I can understand wanting to vent about why such a large company can't keep up with itself or even at least put out deadlines. We all do it, it's good to get it out with people who have the same issue rather than talk to people who think GW is a video game store. Should GW have released models? Probably. Should they have announced models (with a deadline they could keep)? A huge yes. But the modelers are just dealing with it in their own way, if others don't want to model that is perfectly within their rights as individual human beings. But I will say there is a lot of needless complaining and rudeness from BOTH sides.

I'd say lock this bitchfest.

No one knows when/if new tyranid models get released, this was clear on the first page. The rest was neither news nor rumours.

Greets
Schepp himself

Da Boss wrote:

Shaman wrote:@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

So. We shouldn't complain about GW being crap because GW is crap, and we should never expect them to improve because they are crap.

You can't look past yourself and see someone else's point of view, and as long as everyone does something, it's okay.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

I have no problem with having to convert, as I usually end up doing it anyway.

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Not and be in official stores or competitions.

Vengis wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

Wait a couple months for what?

Where did I say I was going to quit? I said I was shelving my Nid army, yes. That doesn't mean I'm quitting 40k, or that I'm never going to play my Nids again; I'll just wait until they release the models for the new units.

The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding this. None of your current Nid models were made obsolete, you just don't have the new toys yet. Seems like you still have a perfectly viable Nid army but since you don't want to convert, you have to wait until the new models are released if you want to use them. I don't see why you should be upset over this, it's your choice. It's not like you have a bunch of models that don't have rules anymore. Seems like anger for the sake of it.

kirsanth wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Kilkrazy wrote:Not and be in official stores or competitions.

So if I take a Hive Tyrant and convert it, it is no longer legal? How so?

Vengis wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

Wait a couple months for what?

Where did I say I was going to quit? I said I was shelving my Nid army, yes. That doesn't mean I'm quitting 40k, or that I'm never going to play my Nids again; I'll just wait until they release the models for the new units.

The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

Actually you discarded some possible solutions sugested by users to your converting problem as you said

" Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. "

Sure they may not satisfy what you are looking for but if neither GW does, so what can you do about it? THere are still more options, for example you ask a friend who likes to convert to built your models? I dont know... but your argumentation kind of hints that you have your mind made up about quiting Nids for now, maybe i read it wrong.

The 2 months I'm talking about you can read chapterhouse previous posts on this thread... Dunno if it will satisfy your needs.
I understand your frustation but if you are not flexible enough to consider other possibilities then theres not much anyone can do about it.

Having trouble seeing why some people are kicking up about this issue for this army book release. In the old days (2nd Edition), we never knew when anything was going to be released and most books never saw a complete range of miniatures. Trust me, GW have got a lot better at supporting their Codexes than they used to.

I have no involvement in the industry, but I can guess that it takes a lot of resources to put together a release like this one. I mean come on, Venomthrope, Hive Guard, Pyrovore, new Gargoyles, new Raveners and big arse Trygon/Mawloc. What more can you realistically want?

I agree with those who said they'd rather have a more diverse Codex than one that was fully supported but with fewer options. No, we can't all convert a Tyrannofex, but some people will enjoy having a go. The rest of us still have more minis and therefore more options than we did with the last codex.

I'm all for highlighting GWs faults as and when appropriate, but this is one of their best non Space Marine releases in a long time.

Rant mode off

For those worrying about a lack of skill with Greenstuff and general converting, just keep practicing. I hated Greenstuff until a couple of weeks ago, when someone showed me how to use it. Now I can't get enough of the stuff.

You are also forgetting a third option here fellas....ask someone to do the conversion for you, or look for one on Ebay and the ilk.

As for demanding some kind of date of release, why? Never did it before, and they have said that eventually all Codecies/Army Book options will be made available of the peg. Why the negativity towards this? Especially when you seem to be demanding the very thing they have said they will do?

NAVARRO wrote:

Actually you discarded some possible solutions sugested by users to your converting problem as you said

" Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. "

Sure they may not satisfy what you are looking for but if neither GW does, so what can you do about it? THere are still more options, for example you ask a friend who likes to convert to built your models? I dont know... but your argumentation kind of hints that you have your mind made up about quiting Nids for now, maybe i read it wrong.

The 2 months I'm talking about you can read chapterhouse previous posts on this thread... Dunno if it will satisfy your needs.
I understand your frustation but if you are not flexible enough to consider other possibilities then theres not much anyone can do about it.

Now that I've had some time to cool off, I've reread through the thread. I personally have no interest in using substitute models, but there's nothing wrong with the suggestion itself. What really made me mad, and I feel I misdirected a lot of my anger, were the people saying that I should quit the game in general because I don't like converting. Or to play Space Marines instead. There's also, like you said, not much I can do if GW doesn't make the model; that's frustrating as well.

I assumed when you had suggested that I quit, that you were talking about 40k in general.

I was just refering to your sentence to shelf nids, but even if you somehow got fed up about GW and this was the final drop for you, no problems for me either.

To be honest I was not especting so many new bugs for my beloved nids and I feel kind of spoiled... also for a conversion man like myself the non produced stuff is a dream... But I can see people with no interest or inclination for convos to feel that they are missing some of the codex full potential.

I think if you buy some beers to a talented buddy in your area you will manage to give good use to bugs again.

kirsanth wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Kilkrazy wrote:Not and be in official stores or competitions.

So if I take a Hive Tyrant and convert it, it is no longer legal? How so?

I didn't say that.

If you take one of these http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM32403 and convert it into an Ork Warbuggy or Battlewagon, it could not be used in shops or official competitions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In an ideal world all armies would have their codex updated on day one of a new edition, with a good and balanced selection of units, and all models available. Realistically that day will never arrive.

If you already had Nids, and feel your old army is no longer useable because the new models are not available, I think that is an extreme reaction.

Chapterhouse wrote:

Believe me, give it 1-2 months and there will be tons of boen swords, heads, and conversion kits to make your favorite monstrous creature.

Nick

is that a hint maybe?

Vengis wrote:
The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

Before it gets locked I have one more suggestion for a stop gap solution to the missing Nids problem. This requires very little investment of time/money and no advanced modelling skills.

Why not take a picture of a conversion you really like, print it out, stick it on some thin card, cut out all the white space with a craft knife and make a card standee stand in.

Simple, effective and dirt cheap!

MDG:
As I pointed out, I don't have the money to spend on models to practice on.
As to your other point, experience has taught me that GW can happily leave players sitting without models for over a decade while saying "Oh, everyone will get models...eventually." If they mean "we're not making models for that, for a decade at least" they should come out and say it. If they are releasing models, they should come out and say that too. Anything else is dishonest, in my view.

Kilkrazy wrote:

If you already had Nids, and feel your old army is no longer useable because the new models are not available, I think that is an extreme reaction.

Like I was saying, a lot of my anger was misdirected, and looking through the book last night at the shop and seeing the army in action, yes, my old army is still usable.

However, without running some of the new units, I don't think it's a good army, and I'm certainly not going to be winning a bunch of games with it.

Dude, I've just started out in 40k again, choosing Nids. From the models currently available I've made an army which I reckon will be pretty bad ass. It weighs in around 2,300 (I like big games, and since I'm not partial to Tournament play, usually play as big as I think I can get away with. YMMV of course, and I'm not holding myself up as any sort of benchmark) and thus far has no conversions in it. If they aren't off the peg, they aren't in my army.

So I'll tell you what I'll try to do for you. Let me know what stuff you want to include, either here or over PM, and I'll rack my brain for potential easy conversions that might help you.

I have no problem buying two kits to make a new creature, none at all. What I do have a problem with is that I should come out of the project with two, not one and a pile for the bits box.

That is the trick isn't it? I'm a bit more driven by 'wouldn't it be cool' conversions, and thus have a variety of largely unusable bits in my conversions tray, but yes with the Nids I will be looking into what else I can convert up from the parts left over. Is only sensible with so many options available to me.

Though I do find that some people stress over 'making it look like the picture' than just going for it. For example, my Hellpit doesn't resemble the illustration or the description, yet in the context of the Skaven, it really couldn't be anything else, being a large, gribbly, ratheaded tentacled horror. Nids of course, are slightly different!

Flashman wrote:I have no involvement in the industry, but I can guess that it takes a lot of resources to put together a release like this one. I mean come on, Venomthrope, Hive Guard, Pyrovore, new Gargoyles, new Raveners and big arse Trygon/Mawloc. What more can you realistically want?

Models for stuff I'll actually use.

I agree, the lack of models for all that stuff is just a minor complaint for me, I still think the Tyranid book is really good. I just think it would be nice to know that something was coming...

Gutteridge wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:

Believe me, give it 1-2 months and there will be tons of boen swords, heads, and conversion kits to make your favorite monstrous creature.

Nick

is that a hint maybe?

I'm kind of excited, kinda not...I'm really interested in seeing what Chapterhouse puts out, but it's also disappointing because I won't be able to actually use any of those parts in an official GW event.

Which I'll likely never play at because I can't afford to travel, GW told my state to "feth off" either last year or the year before, and I really don't think my local store will care.

Ah-hah!

It occurred to me that there is another reason why not having official kits for all Codex entries is a bad thing (even if the release takes a while).


They could be removed from the Codex.


Say they never make a model for the Tervigon or Tyrannofex. 6 years roll by and GW releases a new Tyranid Codex. What's stopping them from removing these units from the Codex completely? They don't have models, so it's not like they're suddenly stopping production of a miniature - they're just annoying people who scratch built/converted their own and really they don't care about that.

At least with the model kits they have (besides Special Characters), there's a decent chance that your model will make it into the next Codex release. No such thing with units that don't even have kits.

I'm also not sure how that works in tournaments, either. GW wants everything official, you have to use the official models and all their official bits etc., so how the hell do I field a harpy or a tyrannofex I made myself without my opponent arguing about it being too big, or too small, or mounted on an inappropriately-sized base, etc.?

I saw someone on another forum claim that tyrannofexes should be hierophant-sized, for example, because the vague description in the background used words like "massive" to describe it (you know, the same as every other Tyranid monstrous creature's background, but I digress...). Everyone seems to have their own ideas about how things "should" look in this game and with no official model it makes playing with them kind of difficult.

If they want to be so strict about this type of thing and make everything 100% GW in their events then they should have models for everything so I can legally play the game with no issues.

They should at least give a base size and maybe rough height guideline in the hobby section of the codex.

Da Boss wrote:They should at least give a base size and maybe rough height guideline in the hobby section of the codex.

I agree with this. Modeling guidelines and examples would convince me that this is more about the
"hobby" than about the profit margins behind the production/sale of such a model. Are there
examples in White Dwarf/Tyranid Codex/on the website? Those alone, done up with a minimum
(i.e. zero) sculpting would convince me it's about the hobby.

Examples on the Website include, from memory a Tervigon, Tyrannafex and Swarmlord.

As a general rule of thumb however I'll model it onto the largest base commonly encountered when building a gribbly. For example, my Abomination is mounted on a Chariot Base.

IIRC, a really bad photo of a tervigon that made it hard to see what exactly had been done to the model...

Still has a base though. And it's described as being made from a Carnifex and Stegadon kits.

Sidstyler wrote:

Flashman wrote:I have no involvement in the industry, but I can guess that it takes a lot of resources to put together a release like this one. I mean come on, Venomthrope, Hive Guard, Pyrovore, new Gargoyles, new Raveners and big arse Trygon/Mawloc. What more can you realistically want?

Models for stuff I'll actually use.

I agree, the lack of models for all that stuff is just a minor complaint for me, I still think the Tyranid book is really good. I just think it would be nice to know that something was coming...

Gutteridge wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:

Believe me, give it 1-2 months and there will be tons of boen swords, heads, and conversion kits to make your favorite monstrous creature.

Nick

is that a hint maybe?

I'm kind of excited, kinda not...I'm really interested in seeing what Chapterhouse puts out, but it's also disappointing because I won't be able to actually use any of those parts in an official GW event.

Which I'll likely never play at because I can't afford to travel, GW told my state to "feth off" either last year or the year before, and I really don't think my local store will care.

I disagree, most of the model will still be a GW model, they dont have a rule where 100% has to be GW bits and models, you can use parts and kitbash from other companies, just not whole models usually. This is especially the case when there is NO GW model to use.

You should be able to use ANY model for a Drop Spore as long as it looks the part, since no model is available.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ah-hah!

It occurred to me that there is another reason why not having official kits for all Codex entries is a bad thing (even if the release takes a while).


They could be removed from the Codex.


Say they never make a model for the Tervigon or Tyrannofex. 6 years roll by and GW releases a new Tyranid Codex. What's stopping them from removing these units from the Codex completely? They don't have models, so it's not like they're suddenly stopping production of a miniature - they're just annoying people who scratch built/converted their own and really they don't care about that.

At least with the model kits they have (besides Special Characters), there's a decent chance that your model will make it into the next Codex release. No such thing with units that don't even have kits.

The Ultramarine Tyranid Veterns had models and they got snuffed in the next codex :(

Yes and no, Nick.

They want at least 75%(last I checked, three years ago. There's been contention that it's 90%ish now) GW product, if it's a combination of their stuff and another company's--for their "official" events. Some unofficial events use the same rules, just for the sake of cutting down on stand-in armies or half-assed armies made from random junk you have laying around.

Scratchbuilds are the exception, and I'm sure a Drop Spore is a case where they won't be annoyed so long as you at least try to make it look good. But for the most part, yeah. Any model would work, but I'm looking at using a wiffle ball and some epoxy to maybe do a mock-up Drop Spore for a friend who wants to do Tyranids.



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That was @ Chapterhouse, mind.

Yeah... and seeing all of our kits are just add-ons (we are planning on a kit to add to the carnifex for the big bugs) there would be no reason to ban such a model

Yeah, but if you make a Drop Spore it's illegal!11!!

Frankly:
If you do a drop spore? Include a smaller sprue of Tyranid bits with it. Adrenal Glands, stuff like that that can be used to further Tyranid it up.

I dont see how that would be illegal, GW does not make a model for it so they cant stop you from using something else.

Chapterhouse wrote:I dont see how that would be illegal, GW does not make a model for it so they cant stop you from using something else.

I think this affects 'official' tournaments more than anything else. If photos are submitted to GW and/or they use them or promotional purposes they want to ensure that their product is on display and not other companies. the rules sort of just stick with other TO's for simplicities sake.

Scratchbuilds are fine, I think.

Chapterhouse wrote:I dont see how that would be illegal, GW does not make a model for it so they cant stop you from using something else.

I thought the "!11!!" conveyed the inherent sarcasm in the post. Or the did.

Either way, it was a smarmy remark intended to show that it might be construed as "illegal" in a few tournament organizer's eyes, but that's really all.

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:My little bro got the new codex:nids this weekend, and reading through it I couldn't help but notice how many dudes there were without models. Almost all of the big bugs were model-less: Harpies, Tyrannofex, the Swarmlord, and some others. Is GW going to make these models eventually, or will we have to buy them from Forge World? And of course, it seems like all the units without models are the really huge ones that are hard to convert.

One hopefull note: I did see this picture on the GW site, with what looks like a Tyrannofex in the background.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=7300010a

One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.


who cares the trygon makes up for that. if you put the trygon and fex' kits toghether you could make a pretty sweet convesion.

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And what do they expect us do do with the Doom of Malan'tai?

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just get a fex and trygon kit you could make somehting pretty sweet

Chapterhouse wrote:I dont see how that would be illegal, GW does not make a model for it so they cant stop you from using something else.

But if you do make a model for it then GW will pull the rules for it, a la Blood Bowl.

If they don't make a model for it they'll probably pull the rules anyway; doesn't hurt them at all.

Kurgash wrote:The Ultramarine Tyranid Veterns had models and they got snuffed in the next codex :(

Yeah, but you could use them as Sternguard/Vanguard though..

I think a Tyrannic War Veteran is actually shown in the Codex as an example Sternguard model.

Exactly, your veterans can still get plenty of use, so it's not really the best example...though I wouldn't doubt that's the worst that a Space Marine player has ever had to endure. "OH NO! There aren't any specific rules for this specific type of veteran with Tyranid bits on him! What the hell do I doooo?!"

The Squat players weep for you.

personnally i dont mind converting but i would like it if they had something better for the swarmlord like a conversion pack or something

So anyway, I haven't seen much in the way of 'step by step" how to's on converting T-fex's, Tervigons, etc.etc..

The GW Swarmlord,T-fex was about the only one that I've seen that was 1/2 way decent looking. (IMO obviously) But they didn't really give a step by step guide(granted the swarmlord was basically a hive tyrant with 4 bone swords)

My search-fu has been quite inadequte in this endevour.

GG

You should check my thread over in the P&M Blogs, I just finished painting my T-Fex. Granted, it looks nothing like the picture in the codex, because I hate the way it looks in that picture, but still...

If you want a relatively easy warrior bonesword conversion check this thread out:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275833.page#1281649
I personally am pleased that there are so many conversion opportunities in the new codex, my modeling side wants me to start a tyranid army...

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/10/7/57344_md-Tyranids%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000%2C%20Work%20In%20Progress.JPG

Mieotic spore sack £15 from forgeworld, this one sculped from £3.00 milliput and a toothpick on a 40mm base easy converting

Speaking of mycetic spores, check out Beasts of War on youtube, they found a really nice and dirt cheap kids toy that can be used with just a lick of paint.

Sidstyler wrote:Exactly, your veterans can still get plenty of use, so it's not really the best example...though I wouldn't doubt that's the worst that a Space Marine player has ever had to endure. "OH NO! There aren't any specific rules for this specific type of veteran with Tyranid bits on him! What the hell do I doooo?!"

The Squat players weep for you.

Genestealer cults.
Weapon mutants.
Hive Node mutants.
Exceptional Size mutants.
Flying devilgaunts and hormagaunts.
Leaping warriors.
Implant Attack warriors.
Sniperfexes.
Sniper tyrants.
Twin-linked weapon warriors.
Rending claw fexes and tyrants.
Spinefist hive tyrants.
Flesh hooks on anything.
Thornback.
Symbiote rippers.
Spore cysts.
Acid maw fexes.
Tusked fexes.
Enhanced Senses fexes.
Carnifex tail weapons.
Bio-acid spore mines.
Toxin spore mines.
Extended Carapace on anything but tyrants.
Twin-linked venom cannons and barbed stranglers.

(I could probably keep going)


Every Tyranid codex has a habit of completely making illegal a good deal of models from the previous one. Some of them are salvageable by ignoring the upgrades, but others need to be torn apart (like CC gargoyles and gunfexes).

Every codex has had a habit of making completely illegal a good deal of models from previous ones. It's the way things go.

By the by: making something "less effective" does NOT mean that it has become illegal.

Broken Loose wrote:*snip*

...errm...that doesn't count!

I still stand by what I said though, a veteran is a veteran whether or not he goes off to battle with Tyranid bits all over.

Hive Node mutants.
Exceptional Size mutants.
Leaping warriors.
Thornback.
Symbiote rippers.
Spore cysts.
Acid maw fexes.
Tusked fexes.
Enhanced Senses fexes.
Carnifex tail weapons.
Bio-acid spore mines.
Toxin spore mines.
Extended Carapace on anything but tyrants.

All of these things you listed are still perfectly legal aesthetic changes to the figs. That's over half of your list. Do they have an effect on the rules? No. I gave my T-Fex Tusks and a Scythe Tail anyways, simply because it looks cool.

The weapon losses are a stinker, yes, but they're a minority.