For the purpose of this poll, please assume:

A) That Games Workshop does not have some diabolical plan where they create miniatures and then choose not to release them as part of some elaborate marketing scheme. Instead, assume that making miniatures takes time and money and they put out their miniatures essentially as quickly as they can within their budget and marketing release schedules.

B) That Games Workshop's method of releasing new rules for their armies only in the form of a Codex/Army Book is the way you're going to stick with rules updates for Warhammer 40K & WHFB.


With that in mind, if you ran Games Workshop, would you allow Codices/Army Books to ship without models for all the units in them being available at the time of printing?

I would, because it gives most people a chance to convert.

Yep , and converting with extra GW kits = more profit.
Win win!

I would hold off until all the models were ready.

Just release the codices for God's sake.

I would - but not to the degree they do with the Tyranid codex for instance.

But leaving a few for a second/third wave is a good idea, and gives people something to look forward to (in theory).

Plus it gives converters something to do.

I would, to a certain extent - not quite as much as the Imperial Guard codex, with the amount of variant tanks that are represented. I'd make sure that there were at the very least conversion kits available, or a bigger set with more options for at least a few of the options given depending on the army or unit in question. But not for all of them, because converting's very fun to do.

Why wait for GW? I'll make my own stuff.

Well, it gets people excited and causes some to start saving up or putting some cash aside for the future models. From a business man's standpoint, its an excellent idea.

Having seen a fantastic Tervigon conversion just last night I can see that it doesn't matter so much if the models aren't available, but personally I'd prefer to see all the models come out to time with the Codex release.

Release it. I don't care if I have to do intricate conversions or proxy for a while, I just want my Dark Eldar codex!

Voted for the 2nd option with the proviso "massive" dosent mean 5 years or something crazy.
Am useless at converting and was disappointed at the emphasis GW have put on the new Nid model conversions. Personally would not have minded waiting a few more months specifically for models such as the Tervi and Swarmlord.

Letting the sculptors work at their own pace and not under a bosun's whip works wonders.

They get more done, they get better stuff done, albeit not always in sync with a codex release.



I say let the creative staff do their magic, an inspired artist always produces better results than a pressured one.




p.s With that in mind, Dark eldar should be bloomin' amazing!

I would release the codex but ensure that there is a least enough models released for each army to make a legal list for 3 to 5 thousand points. (depending on 40k or fb)

I went for option one. Last Tyranid Codex was dead boring. Now there's loads of options and though I imagine preferred army builds will soon start to emerge, you should never know what to expect. GW have supported a lot of the new Nids in the recent release anyway.

Have patience people

Just release it ASAP.

I can convert models - I actually PREFER is there are a few units with no models for exactly that reason.

I'd much rather just get the rules update asap...

ArbitorIan wrote:Just release it ASAP.

I can convert models - I actually PREFER is there are a few units with no models for exactly that reason.

I'd much rather just get the rules update asap...

I feel the exact same way

I do not see how they can support a wysiwyg tournement style play, but not create models for some of the best units in the codex, such as the IG Medusa and Manticore, the 'Nid Tervigon and T-Fex, just to name the newest ones. There is a lot of problems with how they produce their models.

When a new unit is introduced, every unit must have a model, or else they can not enforce a wysiwyg play style at all and they can not expect us to buy their models. They are only hurting themselves. Having a larger line of miniatures at a lesser price, they can increase sales and then increase profit by sacrificing to their dedicated audience.

I would definitley ship the codex without all units being available. It makes sense to put codicies out faster, thereby keeping more armies viable and supporting those already collecting those armies. By releasing units later, you also keep the collectors of those armies interested, and keep the lines of figures expanding rather than sitting dormant for even longer than they already do.

GW has a long tradition of putting out codicies where not every unit and unit variant is currently produced. It sucks for tourney players who want their list complete and want it NOW, but for those of us without scads of $ to drop at once, it's nice to be able to build up our forces and periodically see new releases for our favorite armies.

It also gives converters stuff to do, and -especially in the case of IG- throws a nice bone to forgeworld.

Even if all the models were preped before the codex and still released slowly, I wouldn't see that as a bad thing, just good marketing.

It really annoys me when people complain that there are no models for a cirtain unit, put a bit of effort in and make something, even if it doesn't look amazing, you've tried.

Nenya97 wrote:I do not see how they can support a wysiwyg tournement style play, but not create models for some of the best units in the codex, such as the IG Medusa and Manticore, the 'Nid Tervigon and T-Fex, just to name the newest ones. There is a lot of problems with how they produce their models.

When a new unit is introduced, every unit must have a model, or else they can not enforce a wysiwyg play style at all and they can not expect us to buy their models. They are only hurting themselves. Having a larger line of miniatures at a lesser price, they can increase sales and then increase profit by sacrificing to their dedicated audience.

If I can do this:






Anyone can...

It is a hobby, after all. Before you complain about it being too hard, take a look at some of the flying rodent gak stuff regular modelers do with etched brass, resin interior kits, etc. See also: Gundam-Mecha's threads.

I honestly don't care.

This poll is missing the following option:

I would release Codices without models but would have a clear and obvious window (say 6 months) in which all of the additional models would be released.

Actually what I would do is tie each release of a 'xenos' codex to one for a Space Marine chapter which would be released at the same time. This would give me a steady release of Space Marine (cash cow) models along side whichever army was being released at the time.

All fluff released during this period would in some way tie into a specified conflict between Marine chapter X and Xenos race Y.

George Spiggott wrote:This poll is missing the following option:

I would release Codices without models but would have a clear and obvious window (say 6 months) in which all of the additional models would be released.

Actually what I would do is tie each release of a 'xenos' codex to one for a Space Marine chapter which would be released at the same time. This would give me a steady release of Space Marine (cash cow) models along side whichever army was being released at the time.

All fluff released during this period would in some way tie into a specified conflict between Marine chapter X and Xenos race Y.

This.

I said yes. It makes for more opportunities to convert models, or sculpt your own. Also, I kinda like the metagame of doing without units, or being able to afford the fancy models. Adds a tier to the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BloodofOrks wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:This poll is missing the following option:

I would release Codices without models but would have a clear and obvious window (say 6 months) in which all of the additional models would be released.

Actually what I would do is tie each release of a 'xenos' codex to one for a Space Marine chapter which would be released at the same time. This would give me a steady release of Space Marine (cash cow) models along side whichever army was being released at the time.

All fluff released during this period would in some way tie into a specified conflict between Marine chapter X and Xenos race Y.

This.

What they said...

It seems like if we ever want to get stuff again than this is how it will have to be. On the other hand. I would NOT release an ork codex with a WAAAGH!!! banner...and then re-release the Nob box without one...

bastards

I'd like to add one addendum to my answer:

I would ship codices/army books without models for all the units BUT appropriate bases sizes and a general model size would be specified.

Picking an examples at random, it would be nice to know how big a Deathstrike missile launcher, The Doom of Whatever, or a Thunderwolf rider is supposed to be.

This is an interesting question. Thing is, given the current range of minis available GW can make cooler rules if they come out with rules for minis that do not have models yet. What's more if they come out with something new they can even see how popular it is before making minis for it, or else there is always Forge World.

Personally I think it is great that GW is coming out with new stuff, which was surprising and I really think it helps them, for lack of a better expression, compete with other companies; Privateer Press for example.

SO WHERE THE HELL IS RENEGADE/ MUTANT GUARD.

George Spiggott wrote:This poll is missing the following option:

I would release Codices without models but would have a clear and obvious window (say 6 months) in which all of the additional models would be released.

Actually what I would do is tie each release of a 'xenos' codex to one for a Space Marine chapter which would be released at the same time. This would give me a steady release of Space Marine (cash cow) models along side whichever army was being released at the time.

All fluff released during this period would in some way tie into a specified conflict between Marine chapter X and Xenos race Y.

Well, this poll assumes that Games Workshop generally releases miniatures when it is able to finish them (within the time frame of their ability to market the product, of course), so if you were demanding that your sculptors all work on getting every model out within 6 months of the release of the book those man hours are not being spent getting the next release ready which means you're essentially going with a variation of 'Option B' (wait until all the models are done until releasing the book), its just that you've set a different hard line 'out' point.

I would release the codices,however,I would also make the FULL range of bitz available for easier conversions.

i would keep doing what GW is doing, it would cost money to have all the different types of guys on for every army, not leaving much space open, and if you only put whatever is going to be cast, that will hurt the converting community imo

I said yes, mainly because there wasnt an other option.

Id release the codex without certain units, mainly for something to convert. This hobby started off with the majority of hobbyists converting and making their own things, and Id like to keep to those roots for some of the units. The many tank variations in the IG, some of the MC in Tyranids, certain Ork units. Weve all got them, and its fun to see what people come up with.
As far as a WYSIWYG stand point, its really pretty hard to mess that up IMO.

As much as I love converting, I like a little consistency. Since there seems to be no option that includes size guidelines for conversions, then I'd rather print only the models available. If the sculpting crew didn't get it done in time, then it goes on the shelf to be completed for the next go round.

Then again, I'd prefer a Privateer Press release style; a few new models for half the armies. However, that doesn't seem too likely.

I would point out th in the Nids are very difficult to convert for. Tanks and soldiers are pretty easy, but each nid is technicly a different species! Thats why I don't play nids.

I vote to go with the current methods. Sure its frustatrating to have units that don't have available models, esp. when not everyone has skill with green stuff thats needed in creating decent quality figures, but you only have to look at the interest thats been created in the various conversions that are on this site & others to help justify it; I just hope they inspire people to have a go themselves . . .

Having said that, it depends on the attitude of the GW & other tournament organisers whether they enforce WYSIWYG. Mycetic spores will be a very popular choice, but if use of toys like the plasma hatcher gets banned because they are not GW product, then it will cause a lot of resentment of this policy.

As a UK resident living in the Midlands, I have attended the 40K tournaments at GW head quarters, Lenton for the last couple of years (supporting friends who were taking part) and I'm really tempted to use my favourite nids with the new 'dex, but the prospect of having models banned because they are not WYSIWYG really puts me off.

Of course its easy to jump onto the GW conspiracy band wagon & say the policy is a means of creating extra sales (esp. with most of the new nid MC's being a combination of fex & trigon), but I choose not to believe its true
I really hope that the new stuff is released within a reasonable timescale, say 12 months max., but unfortunately, that I don't believe

I also voted to keep doing what they are doing. I really dont mind missing models for some options in the lists. If the models are released in the future, then great. If not, then convert some.

I would think it is very smart from a bussiness point of view. You can introduce new units for the armies and test how popular they are. If the units arent so popular, then no reason to stock a product that will not sell (these models can also be made by Forgeworld).

But i agree on, at least letting gamers/collectors know the base size for the diffrent units.

Just my 2 cent

None of the voting options are representative of my opinion... and it's a loaded question if ever I saw one - you either don't care about this, or you want GW to work themselves to the bone to get everything done before release/within 6 months.

I have a far more realistic view:

Every Codex entry gets a miniature within 24 months of a Codex's release, and that GW makes sure we know that this is happening. Back in 3rd there was a sort of unspoken promise that every unit would get a model - GW are a miniatures company after all - but that promise has now been broken, replaced with 'waves' that aren't really 'waves' and loads of gaps in the product line.

Any Codex filled with missing models feels incomplete to me, and, worse, the cynic in me knows that a lot of these model-less units are simply going to be cut come the next Codex cycle, leaving people with loads of useless converted miniatures. Sure, the really popular ones will get a kit (gotta keep people buying!!!), but all the others will either continue to languish without a kit or just be cut completely.

i'm a converter - not a painter or a gamer or a fluffer (lolz) - though i dabble in all of them - i'm a converter. give me a troll and a tooth pick and i'll macguyver that sucker into a tank in an hour. the system of model lag works for me. in saying that on a purely practical level maybe pp have the best answer - make the armies unit based with a sta card a la wm and hordes - infinite growth with a concentration on rule development, synergie and expansion.

If I were running GW I wouldn't release rules and codex's spread out individually over a few years. I would release a new set of rules with full codex support all at once. Then feature the release of miniatures similiar to how they do now. I feel that this would reduce codex creep as well as allow people with full armies of older miniatures to keep up to snuff with current models.
An example would be necron and DE players. I know plenty of people who have full necron armies but don't play them because they're rules are so nerfed.
I don't think a codex and the models for the codex need to be released together.
That's my two cents.

There needs to be some schedule for releasing the models. That wasn't an option, so i chose to delay until the models are ready. Otherwise they may never come out. How many units/options in the Demon codex still have no model?

Converting is my primary interest in this hobby, so I think it is a great idea to give hobbyists the freedom to build their own versions of models that havn't been produced. When I first discovered 40k, there were a very limited number of models available for the game, conversion was almost mandatory in the games infancy and it was encouraged and nurtured by GW. I would like to see a more open rule set that allows for players to create their own models and generate their own rules for useing them, which was a component of the original game. I would also like to see GW bring back large scale bits ordering, like it did back in 2005-2007. I could build rough riders (for example) far better if I could order, say, horses, mounted legs, and spear arms and then combine them with cadian plastic parts. Since I can't do that, I will wind up purchaseing comparable bits from any one of a dozen outside companies that provide 28mm model parts compatable with plastic cadiens. In this economy, I think GW is missing out on a market.

No. GW a while ago said they would produce a model for everything, so far they havent lived up to that.
If you look at the skaven book for an example, there are many problems without a clear example of a model. (warlords litter for one, abomination for another)
It may be fun to convert, but having no referance causes problems. so unless GW gets better at making rules i'd (haaa haAAAA!!!! better at rules.... i slay me) say only release a codex/armybook if GW plans to make the models within 3 months of the books release.
Nothing ever stops people who want to convert even if there is a model out their anyway.

yakface wrote:Well, this poll assumes that Games Workshop generally releases miniatures when it is able to finish them (within the time frame of their ability to market the product, of course), so if you were demanding that your sculptors all work on getting every model out within 6 months of the release of the book those man hours are not being spent getting the next release ready which means you're essentially going with a variation of 'Option B' (wait until all the models are done until releasing the book), its just that you've set a different hard line 'out' point.

The difference is that some models cannot be released before a codex is released (before it has rules) eg. the Psyker squad from the IG codex. (Remember that GW has no access to an internationally published monthly publication or a world wide digital distribution method popular amongst its customer demographic through which to publish rules. ) Therefore models must be 'stockpiled' to coincide with the release of a codex or produced at a later date (although I could not say with any certainty what criteria they follow for these later releases.) The difference is that GW would declare a specified period in which one could expect models to be released (six months was merely an example). Bottom line is there shouldn't be a lottery as to whether a codex entry does or does not get a model release.

I don't know why this has become an issue all of a sudden. (Except of course for the recent 'nid and skaven books). I remember back when I began playing in the late 90s we didn't even have a production model for the land raider (Then they released a plastic one about 2000ish). They've always written more rules than models and players have always gotten creative with it. I guess they've just been releasing more minis recently, so people have forgotten.

BTW: Get off my lawn!

I want George Spigott's option: All models in the book, but time (6 months to a year) in which
to release those models after the book is released.

Yes, i like what they are doing now, and i like the room it leaves for converting.

I wasn't sure... I said I'd rather they didn't release it until all the models were available. I was assuming the army list was balanced taking -all- troop selection possibilities into account, not just a limited number of them. But...maybe GW takes that into account, and the books -are- balanced, at the time they are released? Uhm...so confused...

--- Frankie

nintendoeats wrote:It seems like if we ever want to get stuff again than this is how it will have to be. On the other hand. I would NOT release an ork codex with a WAAAGH!!! banner...and then re-release the Nob box without one...

bastards

If any non-included feature is easily converted, it's a WAAAGH! banner.

I would. It means more conversions for me

i would update the codex in a logical order
AND I WOULD NOT HAVE CODEX'S THAT ARE 10 YEARS OLD ON THE SHELF

Releasing the codex early allows you to proxy and play test before actually buying the models you need / want.

After all, the rules are more important than the models. You can make or sub what you need until they release a model.

I think the holding off of releasing minatures is a good idea done for 2 reasons
1)The afore-mentioned modeling time because theese things arn't instant and take time to create and manufacture
2)It means they can make the joy ast longer and keep us updated with almost monthy releases

I would also go with releasing the books without having all the models. The one thing that does piss me off about this is GW's lack of any kind of forewarning on their release schedule. I would like to know if I should bother spending a whole bunch of time converting something if the model is just going to be coming out soon.

Get me a Codex, NOW!

I rather like HBMC's option, of not releasing everything, but specifying clearly which units you intend to release kits for.
Also, selling conversion kits like FW does would make a lot more sense. Don't sell me a basilisk box, a chimera box, a hellhound box, and 5 other variants. Sell me a chimera hull and a 5$-10$ add on sprue for the variants and other vehicles.
Finally, a description of each unit's general size and base size requirements in every bloody entry. I don't mind converting things if I know how bloody big they need to be, but a tyranofex? 60mm base? Oval flight base like the trygon? Same with battlewagons, killa kans and the like (though to be fair, those come with bases.) I think guidelines on the general sizes of models and the bases they need to be on would make a lot more sense than "use what comes in the (nonexistant) kit!"

Just publish the Codex, we need figures too, so get those done and get them out. This release date stuff is for the birds.

I have to be honest here, but alot of people slate GW for thier trickle releases.
I see it as a great idea though.
It keeps people interested and wanting to buy more.
If you drop out a whole range in 1 go people will take a quick look, start playing the army then get bored and move on.

The trickle release gives people something to look forward to.



I would prefer it though if GW handed out a roster on release dates, or atleast let us know what they were up to.
Soo many people wanted tons of £££ on metal kanz and dreadz, only to find better / plastic / cheaper ones on the way.

If they are going to release books without all the units that make the army balanced they should reinstitute bitz ordering so people can at least make something close within the current range.

I don't see what the problem is here. There are plenty of miniature war games that have rules and no models to support it what so ever. It's a hobby game for modelers after all. There is suppose to be a creative element. You don't need to be a master sculptor to make WYSIWYG models. Honestly it doesn't take much to order some bits online to convert up some models(there are plenty of third party companies for bits), and you could always grab whole models from third party model companies.

Sometimes people put too much emphasis on the GW run tournaments. Stop playing in GW run events if you don't like their WYSIWYG rules. There are different games for different play styles. If you want something that rigid then Warmachine caters to that crowd IMO. If anything the statement should be that GW shouldn't be so restrictive in it's WYSIWYG policy at it's tournaments if it doesn't fully support all it's current rules with models, and not should they hold back on rules and options until the models are ready. I usually only participate in non-GW run tourneys and play at my FLGS so be aware that they flavors my opinion.

I like that they have been giving us so many options lately in the codex releases. I'd be sad if they were pressured to hold stuff back just because they can't produce the models yet for what ever reason. That means those options would be shelved for years before we could ever use them in a regulation game or would force them to update the codex more often. I'm not wild about the second option either. It takes so long to learn, collect and paint an army as is that I think the current stride for the popular armies is good enough. My army would constantly be in a state of flux. They just need to release all the army books in a uniformed manner IMO.

Wehrkind wrote:Finally, a description of each unit's general size and base size requirements in every bloody entry. I don't mind converting things if I know how bloody big they need to be, but a tyranofex? 60mm base? Oval flight base like the trygon? Same with battlewagons, killa kans and the like (though to be fair, those come with bases.) I think guidelines on the general sizes of models and the bases they need to be on would make a lot more sense than "use what comes in the (nonexistant) kit!"

This is a very valid statement though. Not specifying base size or vehicle dimensions only promotes modeling exploits either inadvertently or maliciously (especially in the true LOS system they have now). The old kan kits did come with bases. I can confirm that, since I built tons of those. Though I bought several of the old metal deff dread kits and I don't recall any of them coming with a base, which was annoying. I don't know if it was just my kits or they all came that way. Besides the fact that I needed to now go out and buy additional plastic for bases, there was no indication anywhere as to what the regulation base size was for a deff dread. With a dread it's a bit more obvious than a tyranofex, but it was still annoying.

Definitely release without all the models, it would return a certain creative aspect to the hobby which I feel has certainly declined since I began the hobby.

A. release the codexs. then place a copy of rules in with the new models as they are being released. this allows units to be added to codexs and also encourage conversions at the same time.

I would, infact not only would I, I'd allow updated codexes to come in for new ideas that sempt fair. (i.e. not my ideas)

I would.

I would release them so people would want to get them more badly which means more profit which means WIN!

Didnt we have this poll before?

I liked it when there were units that did not have models made for them (and it stated that in the codex) because it gave the player the freedom to do with that model what they thought it should look like. But general rules on base size and that would be nice, just so different player's armies are somewhat uniform.

Is it just me or does the first option seem a little more detailed and slightly biased than the others. Biased as in "pick me! I'm the right answer!"
I don't play the game but I understand by reading through this thread that the first choice is perhaps the best answer. I'm just against the fact that the question is tailored to make anyother voters that vote for something different seem bad

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Is it just me or does the first option seem a little more detailed and slightly biased than the others. Biased as in "pick me! I'm the right answer!"

It's called a 'loaded question'.

I hate that I had to say yes, but that's the painfully honest answer.

You can just compensate with making conversions like for ig.

um,well the way they do it now is great,so yeah,chose first option. We need tervigons and harpies,soon.

I would say letting the book ship first is the best idea. It means that they don't have to completely focus on one model range while still letting the army progress.
The Daemons book really wasn't that bad because it still had opportunities for people to make conversions and basically encouraged them to do so.
Greetsz,
Mr. Self Destruct

I would wait 'til all the models were done.

As a Space Wolves player I had to look for Thunderwolf Cavalry models from other modelers and artists and the ones that I have in my army are totally unuseable in competitions. Why create stats for such an amazing unit and not make a sculpt?!?! TWC would sell like hotcakes to Space Wolves players if they made them. Im still holding on to some hope that Forgeworld will make them someday thought ;D

Praise Russ!

I voted "yes" because it not only allows people the potential for amazing conversion work, but at its core this is a business and revenue needs to be generated for continued expansion.

Yes, but I would makes sure some of the unusual Models were acalible [Thunder Wolf Calvary] even if it was just Forge World

i woud. but I wouth incuringe convertion's and reopen the ordering of bitz.

Another set of heavily loaded poll options. No wonder the front one is over 2000. The second and third options are unreasonable (but also unrealistic), painting that viewpoint in a negative light:

Option 1 - Business as usual allowing for growth of the hobby and meadows and flowers and bunnies and happy fun times.
Option 2 - DELAYS!!!!!!!!1
Option 3 - CUT BACKS!!!!2

Sheesh...



Not only that but it leaves out a more realistic option:

Every Codex entry should have a model. That doesn't mean that the model must come out when the Codex is release - the option of doing 'Wave' releases is fine - but no unit entry should be without a model, whether it takes 1 month or 24 months for that model to come out. And that should be a stated promise from the company producing them, kind've like back in 3rd and 4th, where they said that they'd have models for everything, so even if the model isn't out right away, we know that it will eventually be released.


[EDIT]: Wow... didn't realise how old this thread was, and that I had already replied to it. Heh.

I feel that this is a major part of the hobby. Allowing for conversions and letting the fans have something to look forward too.

The current Chaos Marine codex had all the models released for every option yet it is still missing something...

Yes, I would allow it because it means you can offer a much larger range of stuff in the codex than is currently available. but I think GW could handle it better. I wouldn't ship a book with core units missing but I don't think GW usually do this. But there have been many occasions when more minor things have taken a long time to be released. Many of my older codexes have stuff that wasn't released for several editions if at all.

Huron Blackheart and Cypher were both detailed in 2nd edition army lists but didn't receive models for several years, Marco Colombo was detailed in the Dogs of War book for Fantasy 5th ed but didn't get a figure until 6th or 7th when DoW were virtually squatted. But those are all characters rather than units or large war machines and vehicles.

My feeling is that GW release a codex and leave some things out, that's ok as long as they continue to support an army and add to it later. You would be then offered the option of waiting or kitbashing something. But unlike years ago they more frequently go for the big splash of releases and then drop the army instead of drip feeding it for some time to complete the codex. So they release a codex, supply a couple of months worth of releases and move onto the next thing regardless of how much has been done on the previous range. If you don't get something ealry on you are unlikely to see it at all. Years ago you could be pleasantly surprised to open WD and find an unexpected new release for your army making you feel like they hadn't forgotten you after all even though you codex was months or years old.

As long as your conversions remain 'legal' after the product's 'actual' release then it'll be fine.

Like DE scourges... ok box of warriors + box of gargoyles = 10 scourges for less than £30.

When scourges are released it will probably cost £15 for 5 so ££ wise it works out, mine are unique and I will have them 'before' anyone not using the old minis.

What annoys me is when you make something and people tell you to get the 'real' miniatures. What is real Neo?

I couldn't care less.
When the models arrive they arrive, and when the codicies arrive they arrive.

The part of me that craves creativity and independence, doesn't care if there is a model or not..

But my lazy/stubborn git inside says yea I do care if there is a model or not..

Guess my only example would have to be Canis model. That being its the only model out now with actually thunder wolf and it looks like it was rushed and done a bit half assed and why would you rush to release a SC model if you didn't have actually thunder wolf unit models ready yet?

Phototoxin wrote:
What annoys me is when you make something and people tell you to get the 'real' miniatures. What is real Neo?

@Phototoxin nice matrix reference lol

It's a huge pissoff to have missing units. but i guess it gets people off their butts to make creative conversions.
i still grumble at GW for their "marketing strategy" which just seems like laziness from the outside!

yes

I'd do what they are doing now.

But with a few changes.
1st of all,have a tutorial in a WD or Online of the best way to convert them.

2nd would just be make the new models as soon as possible.
Look at Warriors of Chaos,Chaos Daemons and Imperial Gaurd,lots of heros,still few models for them.

Schmapdi wrote:I would - but not to the degree they do with the Tyranid codex for instance.

But leaving a few for a second/third wave is a good idea, and gives people something to look forward to (in theory).

Plus it gives converters something to do.

I 100% agree with this.

There is nothing wrong with releasing books before models, in fact it's good for the Hobby.

I draw exception to examples like thoee in the tyranid codex. Will they ever release any of the multiple models that are missing from the tyranid line?? hell... half of the command/Hvy options are only available from Forge World.

Instead of DE getting a million updates in a row while all some ork players want is a decent warbuggy/trakk. I think they should drop the theme thing and update a few models from different armies every month.

(You know what would be awesome? Instead of random, sporadic updates just say: "every single model will be updated, guaranteed, X years after it's released.")

I think they should have all the models readily available. I personally am not that great at constructions or conversions. I was extremely upset that the Storm Raven took so long to release being it was, at the time, exclusive to BA. It was something that was supposed to set the army apart even more and it took the release of the GK to have it release.

Overall... its really disappointing that they dont make the models for the armies they are putting out when its possibly something that is almost needed.

Yep, they plan they have now allows them to fit in more unit types and variation, without having to invest heavily in releasing all the models from the codex. And it gives something for people to look forward to. And it also gives you an idea of what units are popular and how to price them.

I am yes to a point. It makes sense to ship the Codex before most of the new units are finished but they are so hit and miss with releases (although they have gotten better in the last year). There just needs to be a consistency with book release and full range availability.

Yes, do as they are now - but I'd put in more 'random' releases to shake up the wave releases a little.

I don't think GW don't release a model because of some 'marketing' strategy - they wouldn't know the meaning of the term - sites like Dakka tend to do it for them anyway Wave releases have no real set date - typically it's 6 months to a year or even more. There's nothing wrong with them, but the lack of foresight into what would sell is bemusing. They make the Pyrovore instead of the Tervigon? They make Lukas the Trickster as oppossed to Thunderwolf Cavalry? - I know there's a loit more time and work required on kits like those - but they do everything years in advance, right? It could be the games designers come up with things at a later date so as to 'miss' the first release window - that's fine, but if you clearly have a unit that you're seeing 3rd parties making in droves, you need to step up the game at the expense of something else.

I feel GW just have too many models to re-do and as they keep adding new units to books they can't possibly meet up with the demand they're creating on themselves, as older models tend to be re-done as new plastic kits now - this is a symptom of having new editions every 4-6 (at a push) years. This months release of the Vampire Counts was, largely, unexpected - the Banshee/Wraith etc. That's good. However the cynic in me says they deliberately put models on hold for the next release - so as to give us new shiny toys, like they stubbornly only really update their armies/codex books in the next edition (if that), no matter how old or 'broken' or neglected they are. I'd argue Brettonians would be as good a release as Ogres - they're far older. Unless GW have realised that Cavalry in 8th Ed just doesn't cut it

There are too many kits that are a decade old, or even older, as well as armies that have been left languishing with no new product support for entire game editions - for me they just need to get a better balance. It seems to me GW is mis-managed in general, and this will effect any coherency or thought processes to its creative/release output, companies like Forgeworld and the Black Library are more 'free' in this aspect.

It's like GW is afraid to be all it can be.

I think how they are doing it now is fine. I usually cant buy whole armies at once so I tend to just get them as they are released. I also enjoy the freedom it gives the player to convert their own models for those units missing models.

Go ahead and release the codex. If they don't have the models for some units, sweet! Then I get to put my creativity to use and make my own.

not big one conversions any more since there was no battle wagon for like 8 yrs so i made one from 2 land raiders.
As you can guess it is huge it like a baneblade. but after the release of the new battle wagon which is so small it's only just bigger then a trukk. i still try to use my model since it cost $170 to make. but people still have a cry about it

I personally think its a bit silly to realease rules and haveing no models ............... but i do enjoy seeing what some people come up with for said units.

I for one have enjoyed converting and modelling to supply the necessary figs to fill the role of units that GW has not supplied models for. HOWEVER>>>> when GW produces a codex and the best models throughout the codex have no existing model in their range, i think its incredibly stupid and short sighted of them. See NIDS codex for an example of this stupidity in action. they could have sold a million tervigons and terror fex. Oh Gee. guess we wont make landraider priced kits for these two critters that would sell like hotcakes. I have no idea why they let a pantywaste like robin cruddycrap cut his teeth on the nids but it was a really really stupid decision not to produce these two modles. REally dumb, bad marketing on their part.

I think they should go on like they are doing now because it allows players to create their own models.

I would do what they are doing now, why hold off a codex just for a couple entries that don't have models? Get the codex as soon as they can so the people who play the army can have a shiny new codex, then wait for the minis.

Once 90% of the ranges have plastic kits for at least the basic units of their armies, I would give plastic kits to the last ones, especially if they haven't had a codex revamp for years. Sorta like the Grey Knights, but with Battle Sisters. And not just a little "found within White Dwarf" rules deal.

Kaesar II.

If I ran GW, wouldn't have army books.

Prefer stat cards though I guess that might not be a popular idea

It's not really the lack of unit that bugs me (and I say that as a nid player). I've converted tervigons, Shrikes, Parasites, and tyranofexes. But what REALLY bugs me is selling kits WITHOUT all the available upgrades in the book. Wanna put dual autocannons on your Dreadnought? Good luck, buddy. Want lightning claws for your assault marine sarge? He's gonna look goofy with terminator arms on a normal marine body.

So ya, Games Workshop, stop telling us we can equip out units with wargear that you don't even make.

The first choice

anyone that likes conversion work will agree with me

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If I ran GW, wouldn't have army books.

Prefer stat cards though I guess that might not be a popular idea

My idea was something similiar to this. The codexes should have the history and core rules for that particular army. Also include some type of modeling section that gives a simple painting walkthrough of a particular unit. Then for each model, deliver a "stat card" that tells about that unit. Maybe put the stats on the back of the box the model(s) come in; and on the website as well.

Option one seems to be most reasonable for me

I voted yes, however I would add the stipulation that it would not take a LONG time for those models to then be produced (like what we are seeing with Nids)

I don't mind releasing the book early, with the notation that anything you put in that book needs to coming down the pipe in terms of releases, though.