Yeah, it made a crapton of money.

Yeah we all saw it and said wow.

But does anyone love it? Does anyone want to see more of Pandora or learn more about the characters? Any interest in comics, novels, video games, tabletop games?

Or will Avatar be forgotten in a year?

I want to learn more about Colonel Quadritch. What was his time as a Marine like before joining the mercenary concern? Why did he join the Mercs? Did he leave the Marines in disgrace?

But I think the story of Pandora is done. It didn't feel liek it needed a sequel or any organic way to develop one involving Pandora. I know Cameron said the reason for the other moons was for sequels, so I wonder where else Unobtainium might be hiding.

for like 2 to 3 days maybe. i was looking up chracters on the wiki. but know its just kinda meh. I was hoping it wouldnt be that big so we sci-fi lovers would have a movie we remember only and not the entire population

I doubt it will be forgotten. I mean, from what I can tell, people are still talking about some of his older films, like Aliens and Titanic. Plus, we're now talking about a movie that has broken film records (And is now the highest-grossing movie of all time).

Honestly? I doubt this one's going away anytime soon, especially since Cameron has announced he's going to have a sequel for it.

Ppl are just embarrassed to admit they love it.

So yes im sure people loved it!

I didn't see it but I heard that people committed suicide over it.

really carmine? i heard of people who thought they were really navi and were depressed that they cant really visit pandora. but i havent heard of suicide. Imagine explaining that to god when he asks you why you did it.

God would probably send you to live with the Scientologists after that one.

Or just you know send you to a cloud with padded walls.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:
But I think the story of Pandora is done. It didn't feel liek it needed a sequel or any organic way to develop one involving Pandora. I know Cameron said the reason for the other moons was for sequels, so I wonder where else Unobtainium might be hiding.

Probably some place that's really hard to get to.

Let's not forget, it broke records because 3D tickets are around $15 - $20 bucks a pop. Highest grossing, sure but highest ticket sales, not quite.

love? nope. i will buy it for DVD, and id like to find out more about the place. the ecology is amazing, alot of thought went into each and every creature. (my favorite being the horses. ) there are a huge ammount of ideas that could be fallowed up concerning avatar.
However. will it have a sequeul even half as good? i dout it. the story Cameron told pretty much exhaused the posibilites of a great big, cool, awesome second or 3rd part. still we will see more on avatar. i just hope it isnt to horible.

I was tired of it after having watched the trailer.

There's no interest to lose. The plotline actually sucks the interest out of what seemed like a semi-interesting setting, because every time you want to take a closer look at something blue catgirls come running across the screen.

Unless they come up with Avatar 2: This Movie Doesn't Have A Plotline Or Smurfs And Instead I Just Tell You About All Of These Aliens I Made Up In My Spare Time And Show Them Doing Cool Stuff Like In A Nature Documentary there's not much of a chance I'll be seeing any sequel.

It was a WOW movie. I can understand enjoying once, heck maybe even going back and seeing it again, but beyond that there's nothing. There's no depth or anything. It don't got no soul.

If there is a sequel I hope it lasts five minutes and ends like this.

I thought it was an incredibly well-made movie as far as the graphics and stuff goes (duh lol). It was beautiful to look at and see and experience. As far as the storyline goes... I have heard from a million people its like Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas and Braveheart... but honestly I never connected it with any of that until people brought it to my attention. But I think the "redeeming quality", if you will, is that it took all of the "soldier meets native, falls in love, blah" to a whole new, more modern level.

I can say that yes I love Avatar (heh!) and I think that it will be a big hit for a while to come. I'm not sure if it will be a new "classic" but I think for computer animation to come this far and for something so colorful and beautiful to come to the screen is something to be praised and celebrated for now.

That's all from me.

There will be newer and shinier movies for the masses to drool over. Just you wait and see.

Emperors Faithful wrote:There will be newer and shinier movies for the masses to drool over. Just you wait and see.

Yeah I know that they're not going to give up on Twilight any time soon, it's obviously going to be milked like Harry Potter was/is.

Avatar was alright, but I don't think it was really worth all the hype it's getting, now if it made up it's own story and didn't just copy and paste another movie's plot and write over some names with their own it might be worth it.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Yeah, it made a crapton of money.

Yeah we all saw it and said wow.

But does anyone love it? Does anyone want to see more of Pandora or learn more about the characters? Any interest in comics, novels, video games, tabletop games?

Or will Avatar be forgotten in a year?

There are countless internet fan groups already, and plenty are freakishly obsessed with the movie. Look up navi-kin* for an idea of how keen some people are. I also know a bunch of people who've seen the film two, three and four times.

I think the disconnect comes because the film isn't as popular among geeks as it is among other audience groups, and well, geeks tend to assume they're the world.



*Don't actually do this unless you want to ruin your faith in humanity entirely.


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n0t_u wrote:Avatar was alright, but I don't think it was really worth all the hype it's getting, now if it made up it's own story and didn't just copy and paste another movie's plot and write over some names with their own it might be worth it.

I just don't understand this idea that a film's story has to be original. Most films, especially blockbusters, have nothing new in their stories. They tell classic stories, and the fun is in how the story is told. If you've read 50 fantasy books you've read Campbell's hero of a thousand faces at least 40 times, but we accept that.

The point to Star Wars wasn't the original story (it was highly derivative), the point was the story was the excellent pacing, mood, and characters.

I enjoyed watching it, it earned 4 stars on Flashman's 7 point review system.

However, I most certainly did not love it. As other's have pointed out, there are no memorable characters, no memorable lines and aside from the obligatory big battle at the end (if you're going to drop a big bomb on something, try putting it on something that goes faster than walking speed... or nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure), no memorable scenes.

The vehicles looked rubbish (10+ years in development and that was the best they could come up with - GW's stuff is better) and as pretty as Pandora was, it wasn't enough for a second viewing.

The success of Avatar is a triumph of hype over quality and the only reason it's "the most successful movie of all time" is the increased cost of the tickets for the 3D specs.

sebster wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Avatar was alright, but I don't think it was really worth all the hype it's getting, now if it made up it's own story and didn't just copy and paste another movie's plot and write over some names with their own it might be worth it.

I just don't understand this idea that a film's story has to be original. Most films, especially blockbusters, have nothing new in their stories. They tell classic stories, and the fun is in how the story is told. If you've read 50 fantasy books you've read Campbell's hero of a thousand faces at least 40 times, but we accept that.

The point to Star Wars wasn't the original story (it was highly derivative), the point was the story was the excellent pacing, mood, and characters.

I didn't say it was horible, and I know new stories are kind of rare now. But, this one was the most noticible out of every movie I have seen that wasn't a remake or reboot. I don't mind if it did copy something, but it just didn't seem to put as much effort into masking it and it could have been much better if it did.

Avatar is just Princess Mononoke, Pocahontas, and FernGully mashed into one long (too long) and visually stunning movie. I would have liked it more if I wasn't thinking to myself "Wait... I've seen this before." the entire time. The whole movie was very predictable and it didn't even bother with a respectable plot twist. A creative writer would have done something like making the blue people seem all nice and Utopian on the outside but then at the last minute show the dark loathsome aspects of their society. And then make the main character regret being a traitor to his bad, but not so bad, people.

That... and the mechs were slowed. They use 2 hands to hold their guns. that. Any mech designer would have just made the weapon lighter or the arm holding it stronger. That way you can have two guns or something else in the other hand (big knife?).

That said, I still give the movie a 7.5/10. It entertained me but I wasn't impressed by anything but the amazing CGI. Watching that movie made me think "I can't wait to see what we can do next year or 2 years from now." rather than "I want to watch it again."

Flashman wrote:The success of Avatar is a triumph of hype over quality and the only reason it's "the most successful movie of all time" is the increased cost of the tickets for the 3D specs.

Grossing more than billion, whether someone is paying an extra couple of dollars for a ticket or not, is a hell of a thing. There's an argument to be made about Avatar having lower viewer numbers than other films, but if you start focussing on viewing numbers then nothing from Hollywood makes the list - suddenly it's dominated by Jackie Chan films in China and Bollywood stuff. Instead, you just look at the top echelon of films as being in a different league - lots of films make solid bank each year, a hundred or two hundred million, but films that double that are very rare. It takes more than a surcharge to move a film up to the top tier.

Avatar did well because it has appeal across all demographics - when my geek friends and my mum are both keen to see a movie its onto a good thing. Add in the fact that it brought a wow factor with its visuals and 3D, and the films success makes sense. Also, there's a recession on and a movie night is cheaper than most things.

double post

I enjoyed it, I would be happy to try out the computer game, might take a passing interest in a miniatures game but will give and RPG a miss.

Sequels, yes I am interested, but the continuency plot needs to be cast iron. There are plenty of ways without relying on the earth mother to avoid being nuked by the RDA, most plausible of which is another corporation.

My reasoning is that RDA has an exclusive franchise, obviously purchased and negotiated on Earth. However if the indiginous 'government' gives strictly limited mining rights to rival corporations they in turn will defend their interests from the RDA who want an exclusive.

Navi might not want anything from the sky people, but the new navi-human leadership might be clever enough to see the need to play off various human factions against each other.

This is how some countries, notably Ethiopia, Siam and Japan successfully fended off colonialism. If you take an interest in foreign ways its relatively easy to play off the powers against each other by floating several trade agreements at once.

sebster wrote:I just don't understand this idea that a film's story has to be original.

As we have talked about before, it doesn't have to be original, but it does need to feel fresh or interesting; this was neither. It felt like a copy.

Orlanth wrote:Navi might not want anything from the sky people, but the new navi-human leadership might be clever enough to see the need to play off various human factions against each other.

This is a great idea but I just don't see Cameron having the capacity for it. His writing hasn't ever really been his high point and going by his track record he only has one beat for corporations/companies: corrupt and evil.

sebster wrote:Also, there's a recession on and a movie night is cheaper than most things.

You're kidding right? I don't know about you but I can't afford movie theater prices (let alone that 3D crap). I wait for DVD so I can rent it cheaply or see it for free if someone else pays.

It is cheaper than a concert and still allows for social/communal gatherings. Historically during economic down times movie ticket sales go.

Ahtman wrote:

sebster wrote:I just don't understand this idea that a film's story has to be original.

As we have talked about before, it doesn't have to be original, but it does need to feel fresh or interesting; this was neither. It felt like a copy.

Orlanth wrote:Navi might not want anything from the sky people, but the new navi-human leadership might be clever enough to see the need to play off various human factions against each other.

This is a great idea but I just don't see Cameron having the capacity for it. His writing hasn't ever really been his high point and going by his track record he only has one beat for corporations/companies: corrupt and evil.

I agree entirely.

Ahtman wrote:It is cheaper than a concert and still allows for social/communal gatherings. Historically during economic down times movie ticket sales go.

Meh, whatever happened to movie rental night with the family/friends? Order a pizza, have some beer and snacks, watch 2 or 3 movies without really caring what's on. When I was a child our families would usually have a game night (Poker, Euchre, Pictionary, etc) and rent movies for the kids. For 8+ people that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going out.

Preachy racist bull-gak.

They might as well have spray painted "Whites are bad! Non-whites are perfect!" over all the trees and vehicles.

It was a two and a half hour white-guilt trip, mixed in with eco-nonsense and Dances with Smur... uhh... Wolves.


It deserves the best special effects Oscar - because they were, in a word, mindblowing - but that's it. Best film? feth the feth off! Best director? fething feth the feth off right fething now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Preachy racist bull-gak.

They might as well have spray painted "Whites are bad! Non-whites are perfect!" over all the trees and vehicles.

It was a two and a half hour white-guilt trip, mixed in with eco-nonsense and Dances with Smur... uhh... Wolves.


It deserves the best special effects Oscar - because they were, in a word, mindblowing - but that's it. Best film? feth the feth off! Best director? fething feth the feth off right fething now.

Heh. "White's" are imperialistic out of survival instinct. Look at where they came from. Cold and inhospitable landscape. Let's make war to take someone else's resources! They have much and we have little. It's merely evolution of the mind which caused the balance of power to tip. Oh, the glory days of imperialism how our economy misses you.

dreadlord wrote:

sebster wrote:Also, there's a recession on and a movie night is cheaper than most things.

You're kidding right? I don't know about you but I can't afford movie theater prices (let alone that 3D crap). I wait for DVD so I can rent it cheaply or see it for free if someone else pays.

His flag says he's from Australia. We're not really hit that badly by the recession, in fact with China's recent growth we'll probably be out of it soon. That's probably the reason why he said that.

IIRC it cost me about $16-20 to see Avatar, where as a normal movie would be $13.
It's true it is pretty much cheaper than anything else.
But for the extra it cost to see it in 3D (they were only showing it in 3D there), I kind of expected the story to be more fresh. As it is I enjoyed Monsters vs Aliens in 3D more
Although I'll agree the 3D effect was good and didn't seem gimicky like it did in the other 3D movies I've seen, like Monsters vs Aliens.

dreadlord wrote:

Ahtman wrote:It is cheaper than a concert and still allows for social/communal gatherings. Historically during economic down times movie ticket sales go.

Meh, whatever happened to movie rental night with the family/friends? Order a pizza, have some beer and snacks, watch 2 or 3 movies without really caring what's on. When I was a child our families would usually have a game night (Poker, Euchre, Pictionary, etc) and rent movies for the kids. For 8+ people that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going out.

People do still do that, but it isn't the same as getting out of the house to do something. Sometimes leaving the house for something besides work is a nice thing. A picnic is just lunch, but it wouldn't be the same if you sat on your kitchen floor to do it.

Ahtman wrote:

dreadlord wrote:

Ahtman wrote:It is cheaper than a concert and still allows for social/communal gatherings. Historically during economic down times movie ticket sales go.

Meh, whatever happened to movie rental night with the family/friends? Order a pizza, have some beer and snacks, watch 2 or 3 movies without really caring what's on. When I was a child our families would usually have a game night (Poker, Euchre, Pictionary, etc) and rent movies for the kids. For 8+ people that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going out.

People do still do that, but it isn't the same as getting out of the house to do something. Sometimes leaving the house for something besides work is a nice thing. A picnic is just lunch, but it wouldn't be the same if you sat on your kitchen floor to do it.

I understand. I actually saw Avatar in the theater with my wife. She made the excellent point that we hadn't gone out in over 6 months and that it would be nice to see a "visually stunning film" (with little else to offer) on a gigantic screen. Whereas on our small television it would probably bore us to tears. Call me a hypocrite but my wallet still aches from shelling out $20 for that movie. To me, $20 is 4 days worth of food or a partial tank of gas. I don't make $10 an hour so I paid that movie more than I can make during it's duration. That's depressing.

I've still not seen it, mostly because of all the reviews saying the plot and pretty much everything about the movie other than the graphics are "meh".

I actually went to the cinema to go and see it, stood around in the loby for a while waiting for my wife to turn up, and by the time she did neither of us could summon the enthusiasm to actually go and get tickets, so went and bought some computer games instead.

I liked it.

It was pretty, and sparkly and was the 2nd move I managed to see in a Cinema last year (Star Trek being the other).

Sure, Cameron isn't original or a good director or writer (he did direct Piranha 2 and co-write Rambo: First blood pt 2 as well) but he does make an (from my pov) an enjoyable movie.

It was the first 3d movie to not give me a headache.
It was about the same length as King Kong (but didn't put me to sleep).

The AMP suits (walkers) had hands because they are a multi-role piece of hardware (they are used to load/unload cargo as well as carry guns). This is a corporate venture, not a military mission. They have dependable proven pieces that can be built on-site (blueprints can be hypercast, supply runs take forever).

That said, RDA has a monopoly on space travel (and AFAIK, there ARE NO SPACE WARFLEETS, so no nuking from orbit - it's not the same 'universe' as ALIENS).

The film was amazing, but a sequel can't possibly do what the first did, unless they make it interactive so we get to be an Avatar

But seriously, if I hear another film mentioning an element called 'Unobtainium' again, I will not be responsible for my actions

Yeah, it made a crapton of money.

Yeah we all saw it and said wow.
***Yep, like every other IMAX film I've seen and some recent video games my Boy has been playing.

But does anyone love it? Does anyone want to see more of Pandora or learn more about the characters? Any interest in comics, novels, video games, tabletop games?
***Thats a negative.
Or will Avatar be forgotten in a year?
***Yep.

Visually stunning, and the action was entertaining, and despite it all i wanted to walk out. And who the hell at the start said 'everyone likes it they just dont want to admit it'? It was one of the worst films i have ever seen, and was without any doubt the most corny film i have seen for about 15 years. Especially the whole 'we will laugh when he inevitably falls off this horse but of course we will all love him in an hour' moment at the start. It made me cringe it was so bad, and if i wasnt in an Imax theatre i would have walked out.

I enjoyed it. I would be interested in learning more about Pandora or the blue alien dudes. I would be interested in learning why this Unobtanium is so hot. I enjoyed how all of
Pandora is connected.

But I am not gonna freak out like a little fanboy about it. I enjoyed it, would be interested in more. But I am not gonna tug it to Naavi porn.

But hey, maybe for the next one, he will manage to give us a virtual reality movie!

Absolutely loved it. Avatar is what the movie theater experience is all about. Its in the same tier as Star Wars 1977, The Matrix, Indiana Jones, Saving Private Ryan, Alien(s), Terminator 2, Wizard of Oz, etc. - Game changing films that raised the bar for blockbuster entertainment. Sure, its got a story we're all accustomed with. But all the above movies also had pretty cheesey stories once you break 'em down - but like all things its about execution and excuse the pun, the big picture, which Avatar and the above had in spades.

Before seeing the film I was skeptical especially after they released initial pics of what I deemed Night Elf wannabe's but came out of the auditorium more than satisfied. Cameron's film offered incredible fun and epitomized what blockbuster entertainment is all about. It won't be anywhere near as immersive in 2-d though; shame that TV tech isn't up to speed for Avatar yet. This movie made even geezers giddy such as my parents that I managed to drag along during the Holidays.

It shattered records and has acclaim across the board including the ever so fickle internet communities and movie critics. Hell it even won the Golden Globe for best movie of the year and with the news of Avatar being expanded into a trilogy...it won't be soon forgotten. And then you've got those extremists depressed that Pandora doesn't even exist...(and no, I'm not one of them ). Its already becoming ingrained in pop-culture since its been parodied numerous times and sparked countless discussions relating to it.

Although from a merchandising/marketing standpoint, Avatar looks tame compared to the prequel Star Wars and Transformers.

I hated this stupid movie so much it isn't even funny. Cameron is a hack, and he copy/pasted the Dances with Wolves plot, which was stale and hamfisted the first time around.

The only good thing about that movie was how bad ass the main "evil" merc was, and I only wish we could have a prequel with him roflstomping the smurf-people of pandora.

Also, the only reason it grossed so much is the disgusting prices movie theaters charge these days, with the amount of pirating going on, and the fact that you can't just download this at home and get the 3-D experience. Also the fact that movie theaters were charging 1.5x admission for those glasses, which ended up giving me a headache (and reaffirming my severe disappointment with the state of 3-D technology).

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It deserves the best special effects Oscar - because they were, in a word, mindblowing - but that's it. Best film? feth the feth off! Best director? fething feth the feth off right fething now.

There is room for awards in the categories of Supporting Actress (Weaver), Producer, Costume maybe in addition to all the FX awards for the year.

Orlanth wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It deserves the best special effects Oscar - because they were, in a word, mindblowing - but that's it. Best film? feth the feth off! Best director? fething feth the feth off right fething now.

There is room for awards in the categories of Supporting Actress (Weaver), Producer, Costume maybe in addition to all the FX awards for the year.

She wasn't the best supporting actress though. No way she wins.
Costume-what costume?
Producer? yea could be.

Edit Avatar is not nominated for those

Nominations:
Avatar
Art Direction Cinematography Directing Film Editing Music (Original Score) Best Picture Sound Editing Sound Mixing Visual Effects

District 9
Film Editing Best Picture Visual Effects Writing (Adapted Screenplay)

The Hurt Locker
Actor in a Leading Role Cinematography Directing Film Editing Music (Original Score) Best Picture Sound Editing Sound Mixing Writing (Original Screenplay)

If this p.o.s. beats out inglourious basterds, Blind Side, District 9, Precious , The Hurt Locker, or even Up then there was a fix.

I loved the movie for multiple reasons, as I went into it not expecting amazing acting or plot, but their was a lot of suprise in that. The actors especially the blue ones spent TONS of time practicing to move and act the way they did. The graphics were amazing and one of my good friends was on the CGI team for it so another bonus. Though it didn't have the emotion the "Blind Side" did I still had a blast with it and look forward to its release. Also I saw it in something called real 3D which was AWSOME!!!!

apwill4765 wrote:I hated this stupid movie so much it isn't even funny. Cameron is a hack, and he copy/pasted the Dances with Wolves plot, which was stale and hamfisted the first time around.

Hang on, so now people are saying Aliens and the first two Terminator movies aren't any good? Really?

I mean, I know some of you guys don't like films about environmentalism, but it's alright to say 'I don't like films about environmentalism' without all this silliness.


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n0t_u wrote:His flag says he's from Australia. We're not really hit that badly by the recession, in fact with China's recent growth we'll probably be out of it soon. That's probably the reason why he said that.

No, it has nothing to do with my personal experiences. I said it because it's a well known phenomenom that the industry tracks - the box office does better in hard times.

Noo...you're drawing a strawman conculsion from one statement.

Frazzled wrote:Noo...you're drawing a strawman conculsion from one statement.

Nah, from that long thread we had on the movie a while back. My answer was a little simple though, there's also a sizable bunch that likes their military sci-fi, and those guys do come off like chumps in this movie (not just evil, but also losers) so I can understand people not liking it on those grounds.

But there's a whole lot of other arguments that are pretty obvious non-starters as well as some claims that make no sense at all (James Cameron as a hack director?)

Y'know it reminds me more and more of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another stunning film that made if not a Kajillion Dollars than certainly a Bajillion. It broke new ground, made wire-fu mainstream and opened the US market to other Chinese products like Curse of the Golden Flower.

But no one really loves it.

I've never even gone back to see it again.

sebster wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Noo...you're drawing a strawman conculsion from one statement.

Nah, from that long thread we had on the movie a while back. My answer was a little simple though, there's also a sizable bunch that likes their military sci-fi, and those guys do come off like chumps in this movie (not just evil, but also losers) so I can understand people not liking it on those grounds.

But there's a whole lot of other arguments that are pretty obvious non-starters as well as some claims that make no sense at all (James Cameron as a hack director?)

Yes, James Cameron is a successful hack. He didn't start out that way, he became one over time. As either writer director, or producer, he is responsible for:

The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Terminator 3
Piranha Part Two
Titanic
T-2 3D: Battle Across Time
Dark Angel
True Lies ("You're Fired")

So yea, a legacy of suck with a few gems in there.

And I have no problem with environmental movies. The trouble is most of them suck. The day after tomorrow--suck, Ferngully--suck, etc, The day the earth stood still remake--awful.

The good ones are usually quite good, and explore BOTH sides of the dilemma: Princess Mononoke, Soylent Green, eh, I'm sure there are others.

My problem with Avatar is that James Cameron blatantly copied movies like Pocahontas and Dances with wolves, almost scene for scene. I was yawning the whole time, and the visuals didn't really impress me. I don't care about someone's shiny new computer if they use it to show me awesome hi-def solitaire.

I need some substance to go along with graphics in my movies.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know it reminds me more and more of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another stunning film that made if not a Kajillion Dollars than certainly a Bajillion. It broke new ground, made wire-fu mainstream and opened the US market to other Chinese products like Curse of the Golden Flower.

But no one really loves it.

I've never even gone back to see it again.

Ok in defense of CT HD (and I am same) they had some scenic shots that were righteous.

I mean seriously, HOW are the two highest grossing movies of all-time Avatar and Titanic, when there are movies like: Apollo 13, Meet Joe Black, The Bridge over the river Kwai, Ben-Hur, Patton, The Godfather, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Star WArs Trilogy, E.T., Silence of the Lambs, A few Good Men, Unforgiven, The Good the Bad and the Ugly, a Fistful of Dollars, and hundreds more, all better (IMO, and hopefully to the Academy) than Avatar?

Avatar is popular and a cash cow, but not any good.


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Also, it kills me that James Cameron made a billion dollars on a movie trashing capitalism.

That is kind of funny isn't it.

When you adjust for inflation the list changes a lot. Gone with the Wind is still #1 afte 50 years.


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Frazzled wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know it reminds me more and more of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another stunning film that made if not a Kajillion Dollars than certainly a Bajillion. It broke new ground, made wire-fu mainstream and opened the US market to other Chinese products like Curse of the Golden Flower.

But no one really loves it.

I've never even gone back to see it again.

Ok in defense of CT HD (and I am same) they had some scenic shots that were righteous.

So did Avatar. I'm not trashing it, I just feel that it is a movie everyone likes (more or less) but no one loves (more or less).

Kid_Kyoto wrote:When you adjust for inflation the list changes a lot. Gone with the Wind is still #1 afte 50 years.

Good. You got a source on that? I will google in the meantime and see if I can find it myself =D


nvm i got it =D

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Agreed on both counts

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know it reminds me more and more of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another stunning film that made if not a Kajillion Dollars than certainly a Bajillion. It broke new ground, made wire-fu mainstream and opened the US market to other Chinese products like Curse of the Golden Flower.

But no one really loves it.

I've never even gone back to see it again.

I thought Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was boring. It didn't break any ground visually or in fight SFX terms for me because I had seen craptons of glorious looking films like Raise The Red Lantern and so on and Hong Kong action movies.

I saw Avatar twice because I booked a ticket at BFI IMAX for the end of January back in mid December, then I saw it in Japan with my family, then I couldn't unload the London ticket so rather than waste £15 I went to see it again.

It will probably win a lot of awards because it cost $400M and has brought in multi-zillion M$ in six weeks, or whatever.

BTW on my second viewing I noticed the Na'vi have four fingered hands and the avatars have five, like humans.

Anyway, it is not a ground breaking film in any respect aside from the very extensive use of computer animation and 3D (which gave me a headache at the BFI.)

A much better list when adjusted for inflation:

Star Wars, Gone with wind, Sound of Music, E.T., all ahead of titanic, and Jaws right up there with them.

Jaws my favorite movie of all time.

Meh. Saw it. Liked it. Knew it was obviously going to rip off other films, and just enjoyed it for the big glowing special effects. Overall, got a 7/10 from Fauntleroy.

Then, I googled Avatar just to see what came up. Oh. Dear-http://community.livejournal.com/tothehometree/492.html


Also, as you can probably tell, I thought Camerons Aliens was amazing (My second favourite film of all time), so not complaining about him.

apwill4765 wrote:I hated this stupid movie so much it isn't even funny. Cameron is a hack, and he copy/pasted the Dances with Wolves plot, which was stale and hamfisted the first time around.

The only good thing about that movie was how bad ass the main "evil" merc was, and I only wish we could have a prequel with him roflstomping the smurf-people of pandora.

Also, the only reason it grossed so much is the disgusting prices movie theaters charge these days, with the amount of pirating going on, and the fact that you can't just download this at home and get the 3-D experience. Also the fact that movie theaters were charging 1.5x admission for those glasses, which ended up giving me a headache (and reaffirming my severe disappointment with the state of 3-D technology).

OFT.

This man knows his cinema, i couldnt have put it better myself. Evil Merc guy was fething awesome! Maybe its cos im British and we always play the bad guys, but I wanted him to napalm all those poncy blue fethers!

But that cant happen, because spears bounce off helicopters when its not the right part of the film. Then twenty minutes later they are like fething.. depleted uranium shells!? Eh?

So i heard a sequel is coming. I guess it goes like this

Setting: An informal meeting of the coorparate leaders.

Mr1: So i hear we lost our base on pandora
Mr2: Yes we have. But it is the only place to get Unobtanium.
Mr3: Does the public know we went there?
Mr2: Offcourse not our rivals would steal our claim.
Mr3: Exactly! And we need what is in the ground. Not what is on top of it.
Mr1: I see... Lets order our capital ships to burn the surface. We will then set up a new mining operation.

Several Months later...
Neytiri: Look Jake Sully. The stars are dancing
Jake: That is no star! That is a warhead! They are bombing us from Or.....

And pandora dies in an inferno

Alternate ending.

Just as the human ship line up a alien armada appears. They destroy them compleetly. Not about to let humans destroy their scientific experiment. Because a world where everything can plug into eachother. And interface? Yeah..... i dont rally believe evolution would come up with something like that.

Grtz
L.D.

Avatar was very good but I think it needed more action but very nice

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Meh. Saw it. Liked it. Knew it was obviously going to rip off other films, and just enjoyed it for the big glowing special effects. Overall, got a 7/10 from Fauntleroy.

Then, I googled Avatar just to see what came up. Oh. Dear-http://community.livejournal.com/tothehometree/492.html


Also, as you can probably tell, I thought Camerons Aliens was amazing (My second favourite film of all time), so not complaining about him.

Oh, oh no. Dear GOD no.

It can't be. Burn out my eyes!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For your viewing pleasure, apologies if reposted:

Avatar IS Pocahontas in space.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/04/avatar-pocahontas-in-spac_n_410538.html

I'm hoping that Avatar has a sequel, or at the very least, there are some books about it.

Yes, i love Avatar. I am not afriad to say that. It makes my eyes happy.

LunaHound wrote:Ppl are just embarrassed to admit they love it.

So yes im sure people loved it!

The only thing I am embarrassed about is the amount of Americans that can't see how racist the movie is...

This again? Awesome!

@Clthomps: I read your post. Then I looked at your avatar. (...pun not intended) Then I loled.

apwill4765 wrote:Yes, James Cameron is a successful hack. He didn't start out that way, he became one over time. As either writer director, or producer, he is responsible for:

The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Terminator 3
Piranha Part Two
Titanic
T-2 3D: Battle Across Time
Dark Angel
True Lies ("You're Fired")

So yea, a legacy of suck with a few gems in there.

We'll start from the top, then, shall we?

James Cameron didn't write or direct The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
James Cameron is given a writing credit for the characters of Terminator 3 as the film used characters from his two previous movies. But he did not contribute any original material to this film.
Piranha II was b-grade schlock, that Cameron took to build his rep. As far as schlock goes it was what you'd expect. Are we going to hold every low budget production against their directors?
Titanic is a good movie. It might not be a movie you want to watch, but it was a well constructed historical romance.
I haven't seen T2 -3d but as I understand it it was well regarded - it certainly sounds like an interesting experiment meshing live performance and film. Why is it on this list?
James Cameron was a creator on Dark Angel, he neither wrote nor directed. Most critics identified that as a major problem with the show.
True Lies was a fun, goofy take on spy thrillers.

Your list consists of three works Cameron neither wrote nor directed, two good movies, a b-grade film he took to gain experience, and live Universal production. It's not very damning.

Almost all directors have misses, my favourites certainly have bigger misses than that list. Cameron's record is amazingly solid. He could be criticised for being very safe artistically, focussing on technological advances over art, but it simply makes no sense to call him a hack.

And I have no problem with environmental movies. The trouble is most of them suck.

True, most of them suck. Perhaps the suckiest film that ever did suck, On Deadly Ground, was an environmental movie.

My problem with Avatar is that James Cameron blatantly copied movies like Pocahontas and Dances with wolves, almost scene for scene. I was yawning the whole time, and the visuals didn't really impress me. I don't care about someone's shiny new computer if they use it to show me awesome hi-def solitaire.

No, it wasn't copied scene for scene. That charge makes no sense - what scenes in Avatar featured a talking badger? It can be said that the two films used very similar story structures, that's true. But that story was highly derivative when Pocahontas told it, just like it was derivative when Dances with Wolves told it. It's an old, old story, a well documented story template and one that's been used in hundreds upon hundreds of movies.

But suddenly its a problem with Avatar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

apwill4765 wrote:I mean seriously, HOW are the two highest grossing movies of all-time Avatar and Titanic, when there are movies like: Apollo 13, Meet Joe Black, The Bridge over the river Kwai, Ben-Hur, Patton, The Godfather, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Star WArs Trilogy, E.T., Silence of the Lambs, A few Good Men, Unforgiven, The Good the Bad and the Ugly, a Fistful of Dollars, and hundreds more, all better (IMO, and hopefully to the Academy) than Avatar?

Because very high box office takes are based on making a film that appeals to a wide demographic. This means films like most of the ones you've listed, that appeal to limited demographics, will not do as well at the box office.

But even then, your list consists of mainstream hits, including some mega-hits like Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost, which are also among the biggest films of all time. But films like Unforgiven, The Silence of the Lambs, One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest, while they are great movies, are never going to gross a billion dollars worldwide, but they aren't supposed to.

I'd be a happier person if Fight Club and The Big Lebowski beat everything on your list above, but that isn't how the world works.

Also, Meet Joe Black? Seriously?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know it reminds me more and more of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another stunning film that made if not a Kajillion Dollars than certainly a Bajillion. It broke new ground, made wire-fu mainstream and opened the US market to other Chinese products like Curse of the Golden Flower.

But no one really loves it.

I've never even gone back to see it again.

I love that movie, and have watched it a bunch of times. The music and the scenery are something else. I'm beginning to suspect you're all just playing a game of post things that are wrong to annoy sebster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:I thought Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was boring. It didn't break any ground visually or in fight SFX terms for me because I had seen craptons of glorious looking films like Raise The Red Lantern and so on and Hong Kong action movies.

It brought a Western story telling sensibility and put it in a kung fu setting. In traditional kung fu, the winner of each fight is the guy with superior kung fu, because the film is basically about kung fu and who's ability is best, and everything else is secondary. Ang Lee put the story foremost, using each fight to advance the story, to show the moods of the characters.

It's why a lot of kung fu fans didn't like the movie, but also why the film was more accessible to Western audiences than earlier stuff, which never gained more than cult following.

Subsequent Asian films like Hero adapted the model, though there certainly wasn't the explosion of Asian cinema predicted in the wake of CTHD.

Again like others have said, I liked it for the viewing pleasure but the story was god awful. Please, it has been done a thousand times.

I actually hear people in my break room at work crying how it is the best movie of all time, great story, great characters ect. Of course these are the same people that read the twilight books together.

Its a sad day when a movie like Moon, a truly great original sci fi movie, gets overlooked for this rehashed puked up story.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Preachy racist bull-gak.

They might as well have spray painted "Whites are bad! Non-whites are perfect!" over all the trees and vehicles.

Until the pathetic Na'vi are joined by Mighty Whitey and he becomes the greatest Na'vi warchief ever after having been around them for a month, and wins the love of the chief's beautiful daughter, and not only unites all of the Na'vi tribes with his amazing clarity of thought but also is able to convince an actual planet of his moral righteousness.

mattyrm wrote:Especially the whole 'we will laugh when he inevitably falls off this horse but of course we will all love him in an hour' moment at the start. It made me cringe it was so bad, and if i wasnt in an Imax theatre i would have walked out.

I had expected that scene so completely that when it actually happened on screen it just filled me with a strange sense of deja vu.

sebster wrote:No, it wasn't copied scene for scene. That charge makes no sense - what scenes in Avatar featured a talking badger?

Um... are you sure there was a talking badger in Pocahontas?

thekerrick wrote: Of course these are the same people that read the twilight books together.

Ex-fething-actly.

Orkeosaurus wrote:
Mighty Whitey and he becomes the greatest Na'vi warchief ever after having been around them for a month, and wins the love of the chief's beautiful daughter, and not only unites all of the Na'vi tribes with his amazing clarity of thought but also is able to convince an actual planet of his moral righteousness.

It was 3 months, not 1 month (speech from Quaritch ... you've got three months ... that's when the dozers get there.").
Also a deleted scene featuring his "vision quest" drug trip - where his spirit guide is revealed as Toruk.
A vision granted' to him from eywha (as this is how 'vision quests" generally work.)

Besides, it's not like the RDA were morally righteous.

Of course they were! This peaceful, reasonable corporation was doing this for the good of humanity! But all you've seen is Na'vi propaganda!

(BTW, weren't the dozers sent in a tad early?

That it's his destined spirit guide makes it even worse!

Plus, it's not a matter of him having convinced the planet to have favored him over the bad guys, but that he convinced the planet to fight at all (especially when the Na'vi say that the planet doesn't pick sides in fights).

Freelance corporate mercenaries are rarely portrayed as morally righteous. If they were Cyberpunk would be an even deader genere than it already is. I kind of wish they had gone with Weyland-Yutani over RDA, as it would be nice to see more of The Company from Alien/Aliens

BTW, Am I the only one in this thread who prefers Ridley Scott's original Alien to Cameron's sequel?

Orkeosaurus wrote:
Plus, it's not a matter of him having convinced the planet to have favored him over the bad guys, but that he convinced the planet to fight at all (especially when the Na'vi say that the planet doesn't pick sides in fights).

Him: You gotta help us!
Planet: Sorry. No can do.
Him: What? But you're like, all powerful!
Planet: Yeah, but can't pick sides, dude.
Him: B-but, the Na'vi are your favoured people! They worship you and fight for you!
Planet: Woah, dude. Sorry, but I'm like, all powerful, and you know, with great power comes great responsibility...or great costumes...I don't know. Sorry, dude, for the sake of life and all balance I must not intervene. I am forbidden. It is against nature. Real bad muju, y'know?
Him: ...but...these guys are gonna kill us all and then mine you and feth with your entire body/planet thing!
Planet: Oh...well, guess I better do something then, eh?

Orkeosaurus wrote:Um... are you sure there was a talking badger in Pocahontas?

No, but if it wasn't a badger then it was probably a raccoon or a beaver or something like that. I'm really not that familiar with Disney cartoons, but the point is that Avatar wasn't a scene for scene copy. It was based on the same basic boilerplate, but it was hardly original when Pocahontas used it.

Ah, there was a raccoon. He didn't speak English, but I think Pocahontas understood his raccoony noises. He had a friend hummingbird.

I smell a dandelion.....

Orkeosaurus wrote:Ah, there was a raccoon. He didn't speak English, but I think Pocahontas understood his raccoony noises. He had a friend hummingbird.

Well, my knowledge of Pocahontas has been improved thanks to this thread. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

BTW, Am I the only one in this thread who prefers Ridley Scott's original Alien to Cameron's sequel?

No you are not. Alien was a far superior film, everything good in Aliens came from the original except the tech on the Sulaco, that was nicely done. Once Cameron's team got the marines right Aliens was hard to feth up, just follow what Scott and Giger gave them and they will do ok. Still somehow this was managed for Alien 3 and 4, Josh Whedon should know better.

I alwase wanted to have an Avatar poster and have it as my avatar, it will be fun.

The movie is probably the best movie I have seen, but I have not seen alot of good movies in my life.
I was amazed by the graphics.

And I admit the second thing that I said when I came out the movie was that I loved the movie and It would be awsome to go to pandora, the other thing was that I was explaining about this stupid and random thing called "CGI,brows" to this 6 year old kid who is related to my mate, back on topic.

zilegil wrote:I alwase wanted to have an Avatar poster and have it as my avatar, it will be fun.

The movie is probably the best movie I have seen, but I have not seen alot of good movies in my life.
I was amazed by the graphics.

And I admit the second thing that I said when I came out the movie was that I loved the movie and It would be awsome to go to pandora, the other thing was that I was explaining about this stupid and random thing called "CGI,brows" to this 6 year old kid who is related to my mate, back on topic.

You best be trollin'.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Preachy racist bull-gak.

They might as well have spray painted "Whites are bad! Non-whites are perfect!" over all the trees and vehicles.

Until the pathetic Na'vi are joined by Mighty Whitey and he becomes the greatest Na'vi warchief ever after having been around them for a month, and wins the love of the chief's beautiful daughter, and not only unites all of the Na'vi tribes with his amazing clarity of thought but also is able to convince an actual planet of his moral righteousness.

mattyrm wrote:Especially the whole 'we will laugh when he inevitably falls off this horse but of course we will all love him in an hour' moment at the start. It made me cringe it was so bad, and if i wasnt in an Imax theatre i would have walked out.

I had expected that scene so completely that when it actually happened on screen it just filled me with a strange sense of deja vu.

sebster wrote:No, it wasn't copied scene for scene. That charge makes no sense - what scenes in Avatar featured a talking badger?

Um... are you sure there was a talking badger in Pocahontas?

It was Pocahontas's beaver which spoke to John Smith.

Kilkrazy wrote:It was Pocahontas's beaver which spoke to John Smith.

As for Eyuwawachacha picking sides, it is like praying before a sports game. Whoever wins, God obliviously chose them. God(s) rarely let bad things happen.

It was alright.

Too OTT with the blatant good vs evil and tree hugging messages.

But visually it deserves every cent earnt.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

BTW, Am I the only one in this thread who prefers Ridley Scott's original Alien to Cameron's sequel?

No
But one can love both for being icons of very different genres.

Frazzled wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

BTW, Am I the only one in this thread who prefers Ridley Scott's original Alien to Cameron's sequel?

No
But one can love both for being icons of very different genres.

Indeed, both are good, but people tend to prefer Aliens because at the end of the day, it's more fun.

Aliens is also a classic example of how to do a sequel right. It retains a few key themes & characters (Ripley, the creatures, the Company etc) and continues the story, but is actually a very different film from the original (see also Two Towers, Empire Strikes Back, The Dark Knight).

Bad sequels are usually ones that try to shoehorn every single major character from the first film and then repeat the story with more spectacle (see Pirates 2, The Mummy Returns, Transformers 2 etc).

Yep.

Aliens had colonial marines, it was fething epic!

"A day in the marine corps is like a day on the farm!"

sebster:

Your response is too long to quote. If you re-read, you will see that I also included works that he produced. So yea, I know that he didn't write or direct several of those examples.

Titanic takes a lame romance plot of poor boy meets rich girl and puts them on a boat. It sucked.

And Meet Joe Black is an example of a great romance. If you don't like Anthony Hopkins, Brad Pitt, Marcia Gay Harden and Claire Forlani at their absolute best, then your good movie compass is pretty weird, considering Titanic is on your good movie list.

Also, obviously I didn't mean that every scene was dubbed over with new voices and voila avatar (although the Na'Vi did "talk" to several of the animals, and one of them kind of looked badger like). And the stories are close to being exact copies. Dances came out in 1990, pocahontas in 1995. What other movies use a plot so amazingly similar to these?

Actually, lol at navi and pocahontas talking to animals. I rescind my previous statement. It IS scene for scene!

I bet in five years it will be sold by Wal-Mart for 10 dollars in a two pack Blue Ray paired up with Tremors 3. Great effects, horrible story. I think Golden Books for kids put out more orginal story plots then this movie.

Pipboy101 wrote:I bet in five years it will be sold by Wal-Mart for 10 dollars in a two pack Blue Ray paired up with Tremors 3. Great effects, horrible story. I think Golden Books for kids put out more orginal story plots then this movie.

Sorry boyo, but Avatar will be the second killer app for BD. After Dark Knight, which it will easily outsell.

That's not an opinion on its quality, that's just a cold hard fact.

I enjoyed the movie, it was well paced and well written, if not terribly unique in terms of story telling. The oppression and white-man-messiah shtick got way to New-WASP-age for me (along with bearing a large portion of "white recidivist" stereotyping). And of course, the technology behind the movie was incredible.

It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales. I am pretty sure Avatar will be the equivalent of Star Wars for younger kids. It might not stick with us jaded adults, but it sure will for them. I already know plenty of kids who are into it. Kids=home release sales.

Come on now, Dark Knight is now in the bargain bin at Target now for 5 dollars. When Harry Potter is released everyone will forget about this movie. Honestly, I hate the Harry Potter movies but the last two movies will out sell Avatar in to history books.

Pipboy101 wrote:Come on, Dark Knight is now in the bargain bin at Target now for 5 dollars.

Man you have a deranged sense of reality. There are always sales on stuff, but Dark Knight still sells at standard shelf prices for BDs. DVDs are almost ALL cut rate prices due to the adoption rate of BD.

Avatar will sell well, and only do better when the sequel is announced/hyped.

We'll see in october. If I see a bunch of kiddies in Avatar costumes I'll believe it. If I don't then bleh it was a very very profitable blip on the screen.

Frazzled wrote:We'll see in october. If I see a bunch of kiddies in Avatar costumes I'll believe it. If I don't then bleh it was a very very profitable blip on the screen.

Hah, very true. But, the crazy Avatar-depression people will already have bought four copies before offing themselves.

Altered_Soul wrote:Sorry boyo, but Avatar will be the second killer app for BD. After Dark Knight, which it will easily outsell.

That's not an opinion on its quality, that's just a cold hard fact.

Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Altered_Soul wrote:I enjoyed the movie

Then you got your moneys worth, congratulations!

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Altered_Soul wrote:and well written

Nope

Altered_Soul wrote:if not terribly unique in terms of story telling

Yep

Altered_Soul wrote:It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales

Which would matter to me if I were an investor. As I am not how well a movie does is irrelevant to my decision making.

Altered_Soul wrote:Avatar will sell well, and only do better when the sequel is announced/hyped.

I think that James Cameron should let Avatar sink into the abyss just like in the end scene of Titanic. On a side note, there was enough room up there on that wood for him and her skinny butt. Plus in that water he should have went into shock almost immediatly. I hate that F*ing movie. I just wanted a giant squid to come up and eat him horribly.

Ahtman wrote:Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Excuse my rhetoric Mr. Internet. Time will tell. But box office trends tend to relate to BD/DVD sales.

Then you got your moneys worth, congratulations!

Thank you, how polite!

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Blanket "nope" means everything! Any particular extensions to that comment? Avatar pushed its subject matter along at a 3 hour long pace, and didn't linger particularly long or particularly quickly. It wasn't a perfect piece of cinema pacing, but it wasn't bad either. Hence, the word "well" is used.

Altered_Soul wrote:and well written

Nope

Story != writing. Movie writing includes many aspects of the film, rather than just the dialogue (which in of itself wasn't particularly bad), or the story uniqueness. Writing for film is a much different meter of value. Hence my next comment:

Altered_Soul wrote:if not terribly unique in terms of story telling

Yep

Hooray we agree on something! We could be friends if it weren't for your shallow depredation of any non-volatile comments about Avatar!

Altered_Soul wrote:It has mass appeal, which is what matters in the end for sales

Which would matter to me if I were an investor. As I am not how well a movie does is irrelevant to my decision making.

I see you are choosing not to buy this movie. 2 Billion dollars worldwide disagrees. Congrats, you aren't part of the masses. Doesn't change a thing that this movie will sell like hotcakes AND sell BDPs. The large minority of nerd-rage whining will hardly affect overall sales, as is evident with the box-office.

If you hate Avatar, hate it, it really doesn't matter. I didn't make my top 3, not even my top 5. To me it was an enjoyable movie without much unique for all the books and movies I have seen, but it was fun. The technology was revolutionary, which should win it some awards and deserve them, but movie of the year it was not. I think the 3D is oversold and still gimmicky (ignoring that its always screwed up for my eyes). I can understand the hate directed at it, but I have never understood why its so volatile. Its like complaining about Twilight. What's the point? If you don't consume, you aren't affected. Unless you are in high school, then life sucks anyway and no amount of gakky movies will make you happy.

Internet hate makes Eywa cry. :(

Manchu wrote:Internet hate makes Eywa cry. :(

Crap, we have a Navi-wrist cutter! Call the hospital quick!

Wait, no nevermind, just call the coroner in a few hours.

The only thing weirder than being depressed that there is no such thing as Pandora is endlessly debating whether or not movies ever copy other movies.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Actually, that is a prediction. By their very nature predictions can't be facts.

Excuse my rhetoric Mr. Internet. Time will tell. But box office trends tend to relate to BD/DVD sales.

That is kind of the point. If only time will tell it isn't a fact. The sun emits UV rays that reach the Earth. We don't have to wait and hope, we know it with certainty. It are fact.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Altered_Soul wrote:it was well paced

Nope

Blanket "nope" means everything!

Modquisition on:
Chillins lets take a breath and relax a bit shall we?

I don't like it because a guy betrays it's own race for some aliens.

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Nothing personal man, I was just going after your anemic posts, not you personally.

I am debating sales, not quality, nor whether you like it or not. I am sorry if I was having some fun on Friday and using a little (badly transferred over the interwebs) rhetoric to state the obvious potential for this thing to sell like hotcakes, especially as a BD.

Also, the final "hate" comment wasn't directed towards you, but obviously the paragraph wasn't enough to separate the quote response from a continuation of my fascination of Avatar and other pop-culture hate.

I think things went badly because I was making fun of Pipboys assumption that Abadah will be bargain bin material, and then he backed it up saying Dark Knight was, which was a bizarre concept to me. You responded to me after that, which seemed to assume that I was defending the movie of its own value. My point, in response to someone saying it won't sell on home release, and with a dose of rhetoric, was what followed.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Did you ignore Frazz's post?

Ahtman wrote:

Altered_Soul wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Massive cut

Did you ignore Frazz's post?

No. I was trying to make amends by explaining it all away. It was a mea culpa.

Y'all can disagree, just lets watch the heat shall we.

IvanTih wrote:I don't like it because a guy betrays it's own race for some aliens.

+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

Quite a vein of hate here. Interesting. I found it a perfectly decent SF movie whose visuals pushed it over the top.

But wow, you'd think it insulted someone's mother from the way people talk.

I can't say I *love* it, like I love Aliens, Glory, or The New World. But I was very impressed by it.

While it clearly had a simple and well-worn story, it was exceptionally well-directed. As Ebert says, it is not what a movie is about, but how it is about it. And Cameron, while staying safe with his story and characters, excels at the camerawork and visual structure.

I loved the design work and art direction in the film. I loved some of the shots, but I can't say I loved the movie.

I did smile at the Harry Potter comment. HP7 will outgross it? Both "halves" put together won't outgross Avatar. Not even close.

I liked ALIEN and ALIENS (but the two are vastly different movies in genre as well as style).

Avatar was a fine SF movie - and less tedious than TDK (Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman were fine. Heath ledger chewed the scenery a little too much).

As for pacing. Lotr and king kong could've used some of it. Avatar didn't put me to sleep.

Like it, don't like it. The viewpoints ARE polarised and like as not, no-one's opinion will be changed by the arguments.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

Love it.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers.

Especially this. the Na'vi wouldnt have a chance.

However it is more likely the Imperium would 'simply' sit in a corner around the growing stripmine and build towers to replace the atmosphere. See how youlike 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen xenos scum.

I posted it in hope that someone would continue. Maybe as the log of a soldier in the field, I don't know. Care to give it a go, Orlanth?

apwill4765 wrote:sebster:

Your response is too long to quote. If you re-read, you will see that I also included works that he produced. So yea, I know that he didn't write or direct several of those examples.

So producing a couple of unsuccessful or mediocre works makes someone a hack? You realise by that standard Spielberg is also a hack, yeah?

Titanic takes a lame romance plot of poor boy meets rich girl and puts them on a boat. It sucked.

It is not, in my opinion, among the greatest romances of all time, but it tells the story it was supposed to tell exactly as it should be. The fact that you didn't like it doesn't make it a bad film, and certainly doesn't make it a poorly constructed film.

Again, I think it is reasonable to call Cameron unoriginal (I might or might not disagree depending on context) but 'hack' has a specfic meaning. A hack lacks technical skill - he might lack an understanding of basic story construction, or how to shoot a scene. Ed Wood is the classic example of a hack, he was quite imaginative certainly made brave choices, but he had almost no technical skill. There directors working today that could be called hacks, including some directors who's films I quite like. Terry Gilliam, for instance, is a director of tremendous originality and invention, but he has trouble setting up basic two shot dialogue.

It's a charge that makes no sense being levelled at one of the most technically accomplished directors in Hollywood, especially when he has noticeable weaknesses outside of his technical skills.

And Meet Joe Black is an example of a great romance. If you don't like Anthony Hopkins, Brad Pitt, Marcia Gay Harden and Claire Forlani at their absolute best, then your good movie compass is pretty weird, considering Titanic is on your good movie list.

Hey, if you enjoyed it more power to you. It certainly had some interesting ideas, an excellent cast and great production values. But it was ponderous and let down very badly by a script written by committee - a process that manages so often to work only to undermine theme and remove the individual voices of the writers.

EDIT - You also asked for other movies that used similar plots to Avatar, Pocahontas, Fern Gully and Dances with Wolves. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Emerald Forest, A Man Called Horse and Little Big Man and The Last Samurai.

Dsitrict 9, currently a geek favourite, is actually a take on the same concept, albeit considerably subverted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Quite a vein of hate here. Interesting. I found it a perfectly decent SF movie whose visuals pushed it over the top.

But wow, you'd think it insulted someone's mother from the way people talk.

Geeks tend to be pro-military. Geeks tend to hate it when 'their' stuff goes mainstream.

When a geek film showing a native population defeating a futuristic military goes mainstream, then you get geek rage x 2.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
+++Imperial Expedition Fleet Update+++
+++985999.M41 The Day of St. Marcus+++
+++Thought of the Day: Idleness begets heresy+++

My Lord Inquisitor,

Recently our expedition has made its way into the Pangea Sector, located in the far South West of the Galactic Plane. We have discovered a splinter group of humanity. Hidden from the rest of the galaxy by millenia of warp storms, they have struggled to survive on thier dwindling resources. Our first encounter was above a habitable planet known as 'Pandora'. They seemed to be staging an evacuation of sorts. After approaching them, and when they had gotten over the initial shock of meeting more of thier brethren, we learnt that they had been defeated by a primitive form of xenos. We also learnt that the air was harmful to unprotected lungs. Hurriedly, I sent my Magos Biologis to investigate. He returned with only half his retinue intact, but with plenty of samples. The planet seems to be a minor class of Death World. Probably Theta class, but nowhere near as dangerous as Catachan.

What astounded me was the primitive nature of these xenos. I resolved to have the RDA leaders exectued for incompetence once I had garnered further information. After thorough interrogation, it was revealed to me that a betrayal in the most unnatural form had occured. A human, a group of them, had fallen to the xenos lies and turned against thier kin or, as one of the commanding offficers put it, "He betrayed us for some blue alien bootay!". I then came across some This company had been utilising heretical technology to interface humans with alein forms. This was the gravest of heresies and therefore I justly ordered the Solar Admiral to have entire heretic flotilla exterminated. None survived. My attention is now concerned with this planet. My advisors have informed me that this world is full of useful alloys and metals that could supply an entire sector with much needed materials for centuries. I am concerned though, the astropaths mutter darkly about the planet. Could this race have psykers within thier ranks?

Although this planet is infected with xenos of an extra-heretical nature, I am loath to let such a resource rich world be destroyed. Ground operations have already begun. Thankfully, I have 3 whole regiments of Imperial Guard at my disposal, the 2nd Vandrax Armoured, the 19th Cadian, and the Emperor in his wisdom has granted me an entire regiment of Catachan warriors. The 13th Hellraisers. We shall cleans this world of the filthy xenos and bring Imperial Order to this untamed land.

Your faithful servant,

Inquisitor Valentino.

+++Transmission Ends+++

HAHAH! Very nice. Saving that.

The movie looked great, but the script was an utter disaster. I hope that it has no lasting impact, most of the visual designs were pretty poor, and the setup was at best thin. It doesn't deserve to last.

Word. Who designed those Mechs? Terrible.

dogma wrote:Word. Who designed those Mechs? Terrible.

The same guy that designed the G.I. Joe toys.

I weep for the people that put him in a position of power.

dogma wrote:I weep for the people that put him in a position of power.

What are you talking about? The dude practically channels the brains of 7 year olds everywhere. Kids are gonna love those things. His hands sculpt money.

Personally, as far as James Cameron goes, I think this was one of his weaker films. I mean, it was flashy, that's for sure, but as far as story goes...it just didn't have that special thing that makes his movie awesome.


It was Pochohantas in space, after all.

+++Identification: Lieutenant Petrick of the 19th Cadian+++
+++Data Log 17, 3rd Day of the Pandora Campaign+++
+++986002 M.41 The Day of Ordance Blessings+++
+++Thought of the Day: A small mind is easily filled with faith+++

3 days on this gakhole of a planet. 3 days in this Emperor-forsaken outpost. This rebreather feels like it's attached to my face. At least in the compound back at the dropsite we could breath easily inside. Here though, no such luck.

The native xenos are relentless. On the first day alone I lost 20 or so men in an ambush to thier cursed arrows as we set up camp. Thankfully the autocannon nailed a few of them before they slunk back into the undergrowth. Wasn't much left in the way of bodies to recover. Autocannon rounds leave a bit of a mess.

On top of the damn xenos I've got to worry about the fething place itself. Already 3 men were eaten alive by one of those giant panther creatures. It was only stopped when that Catachan Sergeant One-eye tackled the damn thing and jammed his knife into it's eye. The thing ran off but the crazy Catachans took after. About 5 minutes later they came back with the giant creature slung around thier shoulders. Fething crazy those Catachans are. They seem to be fething enjoying themselves.

From what I hear the purging goes well in the plains. Not much cover for the filthy aliens to hide from our Valkryies and Tanks out there. Here though, there's no room for them to manuvere so where stuck with the job of cleansing them out the hard way. To the south of our posistion the Basilisks are obliterating the areas where we think they're concentrated, but it hasn't seemed to really affect them.

We've established a foothold. Now it's just a matter of time, and lives, before we root them out.

+++Log Ends+++