So I'm reading my way through the HH and a few other Black Library novels, and I've got to tell you, I find they have written themselves out of an interesting story. When you read a book and one faction, especially the protagonist faction, is so superior to everything they fight it takes any compelling story right out, and comes to feel like something your neighbors 15 year old son wrote. I'm working my way through Fulgrim currently, and I'm at the point where


I mean really? Not only is that stupid, it devalues the story, an entire established race, it's greatest farseer, and pretty much any credibility I might give the author for having the ability to tell a good story.

I generally enjoy 40k novels. There are a few that are just awful like everything by C.S. Goto and that one HH book about Dark Angels.

Then there's the totally awesome stuff like Damnation Crusade and the Ciaphas Cain series.

I havn't tried any of the IG variety books yet. I feel they may be better, because unlike the precious space marines, IG allow room for possibly losing now and then. I can't tell you how tired I am of going through this description of hard fought battle and terrible conditions with all hell being unleashed... and then after victory is had we find out that all of three losses of life were suffered

HH are decent at the worst times, and have some surprisingly good fragments every now and then.

The IG books are decent, and usually a lot more grim than anything involving SM.

Then there are the simply brilliant books, such as Ciaphas Cain, which don't really fit anywhere else.

Oh, and stay away from See Ess Goto.

I can recommend Henry Zou, Emperor's Mercy, unreservedly. Most of the HH material is crap.

I've only read Sons of Dorn and one Ciphas Cain novel, but I've enjoyed both.

I try to read them with the same lens I would read propaganda, SM books in particular. I can almost imagine the books we read as books people in-universe would read. The Space Marine novels are supposed to portray them as crazy hardcore, so that the common man's morale is boosted, knowing the Astartes are on his side. The IG books are less insane so that the commoner can relate to the down-trodden feeling of the Guradsman, yet they are sprinkled with enough action that an imperial citizen might have fantasies of grandeur, and join up.

GW novels are very hit or miss. Some are just horrible with no fluff consistency and with plot holes you can drive a space hulk through. Others are ok with the heresy novels being some of the better ones but even they are only moderately good.

I've enjoyed a few.

The only HH book I really honestly liked was Horus Rising, as it gave a look into the Astartes Pre-Heresy. (Ya know, not during the Heresy...)

I've also read Hammer of Daemons, which was a decent novel, though a tad strange.

That's a cool idea Endova!
What a good vein to read the books in, that'll make the slower parts of HH more tolerable. I'm currently stuck on descent of angels...

I've enjoyed the Horus Heresy series for the most part, with the exception of the firat DA book. I also loved the hell out of the Eisenhorn trilogy, but much of the rest of it has been very hit or miss. I like the short story anthologies, as they give a variety of authors and if you get a clunker of a story you can always skip to the next one.

Generally, it seems like Dan Abnett or Graham McNeill (or however it's spelled) are head & shoulders above everybody else.

I'm also working on reading my first WHFB novel since the original Konad series way back in the day, and it's bloody hard going, but there's a good plot underthe writing style, so I persevere.

As a rule when i read something from the BL i dont exspect to much from it aside from adding to the fluff of the 40K universe or conversly, Warhammer. It has entertaining stuff, but not anything special. if your disenchated (as many are) by the BL stuff, see if you can borrow from others so your pocket book isnt feeling like its been raped without a kiss first. that way you get to read it and not pay for it. or you could try e-bay and get them cheeper. there isnt much to complain about a 2 € novel to read.
who knows, you might find something you like. but as i said, dont exspect much, your not going to get Herbert or Tolkien type quality. the tallent and imagination just isnt there.

I personally enjoy the soul drinkers novels and groteck and felix

Some are good like Mechanicum. None are really overpowered in that one. Except the Emperor, but it's the Emperor




Second spoiler was really the only overpowered part of the book.



What about C.S. Goto though, I was considering finding one of his books for the laughs. Which one is the one with the Land Razor, some kids take out a Falcon with rocks and sticks? I'd also include Multilasers in the question, but they're probably in every one of his books anyway

EDIT: The Inquisition War Omnibus is good as well.

Mechanicum.. is hands down the worst BL I have read. It was painful to turn the pages. I didnt even finish it.

I haven't read Cs goto though.

Also Endova has the right idea.. I mean in one IA (black Legion) the emperor was nearly killed by a warboss, which is poor or perhaps more realistic showing on his behalf.

HH books suffer from being mythic.. and the prowess of primarchs is much exaggerated.. its like 10k years of chinese whispers IMO.

My fav books would be gaunts ghost books, their not perfect though.

Cain books are very good, and the Ultramarine series isn't all that bad

Back in the day I read Drachenfels and Wolf Riders, Drachenfels remains a favourite book of mine, many years later. (which reminds me, must sort out getting the anthology of the Genevieve stories sorted). I also read the Ian Watson books Space Marine and the Inquisitor trilogy (which were interesting and often quirky).

I have recently read the first trilogy of Gaunt's Ghosts, the third story of which is frankly amazing. I am now reading the second combined trilogy (in Sabbat Martyr atm and getting a wee bit bogged down by it). Abnett is a highly competent author.

I am somewhat reluctant to read the space marine ones since I'm not a fan of them in the game and I have a preconception they will be aimed at a younger audience. I read a bit about the 'soul drinkers' on this site, about 'how, like, they are this bunch of marines who are kinda like choas marines but they still serve the empera and their leader has spider leg mutations and...' Hmmm, it didn't appeal for some reason.

I really liked the Gotrek and Felix short story in Wolf Riders, so I may pick them up also. I am keen to read Eisenhorn and Ravager as well.

I have to agree. The Cain novels are fantastic for the simple fact that the logic of the main character runs contrary to the general them of WH40K.

I have read numerous books. With the exception of Let the Galaxy Burn (which was just short stories), I liked all of the omninbuses (correct plural form?) I have read - Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Sould Drinkers, the first two of the Blood Angels, and Eisenhorn. Although the Eisenhorn were probably my least favorite of the group.

I also enjoyed Storm of Iron (?). It was just a nice twist to have the story written from the Chaos point of view. Interesting change.

The Horus Heresy has been OK at best. I could not finish Fulgrim.

And, in like all novels, I think a lot of it just comes down to the ability of the author to tell a story. Dan Abnett, Sandy Mitchell, Graham McNeill, Gav Thorpe, and Ben Counter are all good. C.S. Goto. Well...... someone has to suck I guess.

I love the Gaunts Ghosts series. I feel that the author (Dan Abnett) does a good job of making the protagonist (IG) seem a little better than in game without making them super-powerful who always win. There are fights between the ranks, casualties are frequent and to quote one of the characters there's almost always something going "awry".

So while yes he does tend to polish the ghosts a bit more than they might deserve in game, he does it without making them seems like uber-Bad - A's

Shaman wrote:Mechanicum.. is hands down the worst BL I have read. It was painful to turn the pages. I didnt even finish it.

Have to disagree here (though Kid Kyoto is with you on this one!)

I liked that one quite a bit...

And:

Shaman wrote:

I haven't read Cs goto though.

This just might disqualify you from making calls on 'worst BL book ever' calls!

The new "Rynn's World" novel is pretty good.

I like the 40K novels though they're writen like an action movie so theres not much simbolism or huge statments made but they make up with buckets of gore and awesome battle scenes.
Like crank, gamer and all those movies they're entertaining but your not learning anything from em

I like them, mostly because I'm not looking for first-class literature. Of course, I was pleasantly surprised reading Dan Abnett's stuff, however.

Currently working through Soul Hunter & It's a good read. I think it really captures the Night Lords spirit. Though if you're looking for a "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" go go chaos gods & daemons novel this is not what you want.

As I scrolled down the replies I had alot of comments on everything, so i'll make a comment or six.

1. Yes I do like 40k Novels, even the grossest of the HH stuff, and ive finished them all because, if nothing else, then they reveal some tid bit of lore I didnt know about beforehand somewhere in the book! Which is like half the reason I read them.

2. the Soul Drinkers books are great, I love the renegade but not chaos Idea. Currently on my toes as I wait for the next one, damned exciting ending to Hellforged. Ciaphas Cain is a great series too.

3. Mechanicum sucked, luckily for it Descent of Angels and battle for the Abyss exists so I cant call it the worst HH book.

4. C.S Goto is a bad Author, we all live with it, I also thought that the Author of Sons of Dorn wasnt that great, the book could easily of been shrunk down into a short story amongst many others in a book and would of been better for it.

5. Sadly alot of the authors dont compare notes about how strong a space marine is, ive read books where one can take on 50 chaos space marines on his own, easy. And others where the marines all acted way too much like Jerks that were basicly half-chaos marines (thinking of half of the space marines in Rynns world, way violent), or acting like it anyway and then went on to fight and had a hard time taking down a single orc in close combat, it's weird but we live with it.

6. Alot of the newer authors are hit and miss, Sons of Dorn was bad, Rynns world was good, though I have my misgivings and the ending happened so fast I was wondering if some of my pages were glued together and the time skip never happened.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Currently working through Soul Hunter & It's a good read. I think it really captures the Night Lords spirit. Though if you're looking for a "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" go go chaos gods & daemons novel this is not what you want.

Spoiler:

Night Lords are shown to distrust chaos & daemons. They feel that they are their own masters & need not serve nor worship the ruinous powers. [spoiler]Kinda hard to describe but they are potrayed less as CHAOS space marines & more as just TRAITOR space marines

That's how they've been for quite a while now. It says alot of that in the 3.5 dex.

Fortunately for the authors concerned not everyone is looking for the same thing in a book. I just can't get excited about a chapter led by a half spider mutant, it's just too weird in an age where limbs can be chopped off and replaced with augmetics.

I thought the Blood Ravens books an enjoyable read too. I'm not sure about 'Battle for the Abyss', was that just a badly written book or is it bad because it it really says nothing about the events of the heresy except that the dark mechanicum built a really big ship?
I hope there will be a story that actually covers the battle of Calth and the Ultramarines during the rest of the war as little is currently known about what they did.

I'm a fan of the HH series. Just finished Galaxy In Flames and I sorta started reading Flight of the Eisenstein.

I don't know about any of the other books further down the line but I'm a fan so far.

Some are bad,while other are good to read.

I know they're older books, but I really liked the two BFG books, Execution Hour and Shadow Point.

Maxim Boursa is definitely an anti-hero.

ZF-

I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I've read every HH book up to Fallen Angels, the first Caiphas Cain book, and Dawn of War by Goto (this is my favourite BL book by virtue of being so unintentionally funny. He surfs a Razorback! Down a river of blood!). I tried reading the first Soul Drinkers book, but after a couple of chapters I had an aneurysm and started coughing up blood, so I stopped.

I enjoy some of them a lot, yes.

But I don't think that it is that over the top. I mean, if you can beat and Avatar, a Bloodthirster, a Baneblade in the tabletop... why shouldn't be able the characters in books to do it? It's supposed to be the same universe, after all.

I mostly read the novels set around the Space Marines (though have dabbled in the Inquisitors Eisenhorn and Ravenor)

Some of them do seem to portray the space marines as unstoppable gods of war (which they are NOT). And yes i;m looking at you Dawn of War.
Others, like the Blood Angels novels and Grey Knights novels I love, and the Soul Drinkers series (if they can ever work out what the hell they are)

I really tried to finish Horus Rising, but I just couldn't. That book was just so bad to me.

I've heard unanimous praise for the Ciaphis Cain Novels though, so I'll give them a try.

Maybe It was just that book that was a bad experience, but I'm hesitant to buy more.

i have to say i reallyenjoy the HH novelsbut then i read them as just stories im not looking for any deep meaningful addition to the 40k universe

also the cain novels are great but this isnt surprisina as sandy mitchell has admitted to the inspiration he got from the flashman series which has to be one of the best set of books written

personally i loved all the books i've read... descent of angels, tales from the HH, emperor's mercy, a few soul drinkers books (i don't remember which ones).

I like the fluff even though i do agree that it can be completely unbalanced and... well i don't know.

but i don't buy books, i just borrow them from my library or something.

yeah i really like them. they're not high class literature or anything, but its still fun to read

Kroot Loops wrote:So I'm reading my way through the HH and a few other Black Library novels, and I've got to tell you, I find they have written themselves out of an interesting story. When you read a book and one faction, especially the protagonist faction, is so superior to everything they fight it takes any compelling story right out, and comes to feel like something your neighbors 15 year old son wrote. I'm working my way through Fulgrim currently, and I'm at the point where

Spoiler:

Fulgrim and less than ten space marines fight off an entire Eldar Craftworld's forces. In a Fight with an Avatar, it falls for Fulgrim throwing his sword up in the air and looking up, where in Fulgrim promptly punches his fist through it's head and then chokes it to death

I mean really? Not only is that stupid, it devalues the story, an entire established race, it's greatest farseer, and pretty much any credibility I might give the author for having the ability to tell a good story.

err... you do realise....

Hm, did i enjoy the HH series?
Short answer: YES
Long answer: YES, all 4 times when i read them.
Except for Descent of Angels, that was just lame

I liked:
First and Only (Gaunt's Ghosts)
Necropolis (Gaunt's Ghosts)
Horus Rising
All of the Ciaphas Cain I read (and I really enjoyed it, though it can be a bit repetative at times).

Apart from that, I remember some good short story books. Anything except Horus Rising with space marines as main characters has been pretty bad, and I think Gaunts Ghosts rapidly declines in quality after the first three.

I read several of them, but from the literature point-of-view there are better books about Fantasy, notably
Bernhard Hennen and Stan Nichols.

it occurs to me that BL has become pulp fiction for the playstation generation. Dan Abnett is the new Raymond Chandler

I'm enjoying the HH books very much, I'm always looking forward to the next, and can't seem to put it down when I get it. Even if it's total crap.

Besides those, the Eisenhorn trilogy is great, better than Ravenor imho. The Gaunts Ghosts novels are all awesome, and more recently the latest Night Lords novel was really well written, and an awesome story line.

I'm not a big fan of Ben Counter, but that's mostly because of his ham-fisted writing.

I'll admit to not having read the Cain novels yet, but I did read that author's attempt at an Inq. novel, and the length of the sentences in there made my eyes bleed. I can't stand authors who can't properly punctuate their writing correctly.

I have enjoyed all the BL novels I have read, starting from back in the 90's. I read them for the fun value, not the accuracy of the fluff or other gaming details. If I want to read a great literary novel I'll pick up Dickens or Melville.

One thing I don't understand is that everyone keeps bashing the HH novels and to an extent all the BL books, but they keep buying and reading them. Why? If you don't enjoy them why waste your time and money?

I have enjoyed almost all the BL books I have read.
Abnett is amazing.
McNeill is good.
Counter has some meh books (Soul Drinkers) and some good ones (GK).
Other then them, it's hit and miss. Avoid the Imperial Guard Series (15 Hours, Deathworld, Rebel Winter ect.), because BL seems to dump its weak authors there.
I haven't read C.S. Goto yet.
My personal un-favorite is William King.
HH is great so far. Yeah, I liked Abyss and Mechanicum.

I actually started playing 40k after reading some of the novels. Just randomly picked up The Founding off a library shelf. You know how you read the first couple pages to see if its any good? I looked up and I was on like page 34. Somewhere around 15 various novels later I started an army.

I have yet to start up my army, for the time being I play through my friends but the fluff is enough to whet my appetite for 40k... for now

I thoroughly enjoyed the Ciaphas Cain series, simply becuase it's such an unexpected and, Emperor-Forbid, pragmatic take on the 40k Universe.

Dan Abnett.

'nuff said.

I've enjoyed the HH novels to a certain point. The intro trilogy is absolutely epic (Horus Rising, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames) - the second one in particular was actually very tense when


They aren't bad, although a bit dry at times. Don't read them if you want to see the tabletop come to life; about 90% of the battles and storylines in at least the first five books are about the Space Marines fighting...some random alien race that they eradicated. I believe so far there have been two battles of Human vs. Human, and one of them barely counts. (One takes place in Galaxy in Flames when Horus virus bombs Isstvan to launch the heresy, and the other is midway through Fulgrim, when the Space Marines go to war against an old human colony who discovered aliens and decided to co-exist with them).

I would like to give a shout-out to the Space Wolf series of novels, though. I love 'em since for once it shows Space Marines as hopelessly outnumbered (More so than usual) and actually has them losing good soldiers and characters. The series basically tells the story of how Ragnar became one of the youngest ever Space Wolves to ascend from initiate to Wolf Lord.

Gaunt's Ghosts and the Cain novels are superb. A must read is Necropolis, the 3rd installment in the GG series (IIRC). I don't think I've ever enjoyed a book more than Necropolis to be honest.

Stories and history are always written by the winning group, the loser generally doesn't deny something happened in the fear of admitting that they lost.

Heroes are heroes. Just a bit of fictional fun.

Cadian Blood is good. It's a bit more grown up with the language (aka plenty of swearing) than most BL books. Starts off a bit slow and the Guardsmen power isn't very accurate. A command squad waste about 7 death guard with ease and they only loose 50 men against a greater daemon. Ok the daemon was weakend first but still. Overall a solid book with some good humour, "Shutting up sir" still makes me laugh a bit. Without giving to much away the space battle was the highlight for me.

Desert Raiders by Lucien Soulban is by far the best IG book I've read. Only because its like a story of the large battles you read about in the codex's. I'm not sure how accurate the fluff it gives for Tallarn culture etc is so I can't comment on that. It takes half of the book for the action to start but once it does it has the greatest action scenes of any book I have read. My only complaint is only three or four of the current nids are used. The rest are made up by the author. Isn't that bad is just you get attached to certain ideas of what nids etc should look like.

Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies are a good read- the former being superior IMO.
The Cain series is just fantastic and required reading if you want to get into the Black Library.
Finally, Drachenfels (sp?) is a fantastic novel- picked it up on the off chance, and was pleasantly surprised by its quality!

HH is hit and miss. Don't bother with Descent of Angels- I just found it dull tbh, but Flight of the Eisenstien was a good page turner.

Eisenhorn
Ravenor
Ciaphas Cain
The Inquisition War (probably my favourite BL book)
Gaunt's Ghost's

As for HH Battle for the Abyss is my least favourite so far. With the first 3 books being the best.

SM novels... Ultramarines and Souldrinker's are my fav so far, Space Wolves have their moments, but it's a very bumpy ride. Blood Angel's is pure crap though. OH, lord of the night is awesome though (IMO)

The Salamanders book was interesting though and I'm certainly buying the next installment. Where as Sons of Dorn just left me feeling a little.. meh...

Overall I must say IG and Inquisition books are the best.

OH and I don't know who said it, but I second Henry Zou's Emperor's Mercy as being a great book.

I got the Dawn of War omnibus btw, damn that thing should be comedy. (though I never manage to read more then 10 pages)


I'm getting Faith and Fire this week, wondering if it's gonna be good...


WHFB books I have no interest in at all.

Rube, Goto is comedy not story lol. Aside from that try reading more by Abnett I find his works a lot better than the best of other 40k authors.

Peepshow wrote:Desert Raiders by Lucien Soulban is by far the best IG book I've read. Only because its like a story of the large battles you read about in the codex's. I'm not sure how accurate the fluff it gives for Tallarn culture etc is so I can't comment on that. It takes half of the book for the action to start but once it does it has the greatest action scenes of any book I have read. My only complaint is only three or four of the current nids are used. The rest are made up by the author. Isn't that bad is just you get attached to certain ideas of what nids etc should look like.

Ah yes, forgot about that one, borrowed it from a friend, think it was my second 40k book. Can't remember it in it's entirety but the ending was pretty damn good too. The deathscream thingybob.

i haven't finished it yet, but Titanicus is really good so far (50% done)

lots of action and a good plot.

makes me wish there was a sanctioned mechanicus codex

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

rdlb wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!
Really, does that even exist?
On second thought, i don't really think i wanna know.
I didn't read the guy, and by the titles you mentioned here, i don't think i ever will

aka_tizz wrote:
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!
Really, does that even exist?
On second thought, i don't really think i wanna know.
I didn't read the guy, and by the titles you mentioned here, i don't think i ever will

Ever hear of a little movie called "Blade Runner?"

http://www.amazon.com/Do-Androids-Dream-Electric-Sheep/dp/B000EWDJ3O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269896966&sr=8-2-catcorr
The books is real.

Things are worse than I thought...

Well people tend to read 40k books for the "Things blow up".

What about Joe Haldeman's Peace and War. That come under the "Things blow up" category?

I liked the iron snakes book alot, and the short story with the custodes in it was cool

Peepshow wrote:Well people tend to read 40k books for the "Things blow up".

What about Joe Haldeman's Peace and War. That come under the "Things blow up" category?

from a book review
"it deals with themes like the inhumanity of both war and its attendant bureaucracy, as well as with the results of time dilation space travel which may cause a soldier to return to his home only after centuries have gone by"

apparently Peace and War includes more than the exploding, also won a hugo award, like the Man in the High Castle, which is apparently a stupid title

All I'm saying is that the Warhammer books are incredibly one dimensional, just like romance novels. One's all about killing and blowing up, and the other is all about romance and sex. Both are simplistic and there is a lot more that you can get out of a good book. Anyone who reads anything else knows that they are very basic works of fiction.

Just trying to broaden your horizons guys, there is really good science fiction out there...

Maybe, you should try reading the famous works of science fiction's greatest authors. I tried reading the black library..,




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Herbert and Heinlein don't forget them!!

Being a young'un and all, personally I don't think I can withstand these big sci-fi books. I like the familiar and it's kind of hard to dive into the unknown that is Asimov and others

If its difficult to read then you are doing yourself a favor. Your brain gets stronger the harder it has to work. Just like muscles. I'm being very serious.

Plus it is much more rewarding to understand a complex story that to just read something obvious, at least for me.

Don't let it scare you away. Asimov and Dick both have good short story collections you could start with. Especially Asimov's Robot Dreams.

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

I enjoyed 15 Hours and the one with the Night Lord fighting that Psycher on that hiveworld which name escapes me.

the Horus Heresy books are fun to read but utter crap. You mean to tell me that

Of the HH series, Flight of the Eisenstein has to be my favorite.

Slarg232 wrote:

the Horus Heresy books are fun to read but utter crap. You mean to tell me that

Spoiler:

Horus is going to beleive that the Emperor hates him when some random chaplain tells him that over his own brother?

Of the HH series, Flight of the Eisenstein has to be my favorite.

On the subject of other sci-fi, who's to say that we don't all read stuff by the greats? This is a thread about BL, so the discussion has stuck there.

@Grotzooka-Someone refused to ever read the suggested books in another post.

@DaBoss--Ad Hominem is a great way to argue
The thread title is "Do you enjoy WH40k novels?"
My answer is that I think they are terrible compared to some of the science fiction out there.

Jules Verne was a pioneer in the genre, these guys are just writing stories set in a world they already know. Not the same thing...

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

I've read some of them and I still prefer reading 40k novels. When I come home from work or w/e I don't want to have to use my brain for reading.

You forgot Huxley btw.

Oh and what's wrong with romance novels? I don't read them but I'm not gonna belittle people for it.

Please get off your high horse.

OMG romance novels are the best!!!
They're so sensual, sexual, and really capture the real life experience of love!

aw who am i kidding, i've never read a romance novel.

I read to release not absorb

I liked Flight of the Eisenstein.
Fulgrim was a little weird
Legion wasn't too bad but it felt a bit like Abnett had decided to see how far he can stretch the fiction with the protagonist's IG regiment.

Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

@ Pretentious SF snobs: Read something NEW! Yes Clarke and Asimov pioneered things but even Asimov was aware his stuff would get dated, he wrote that he would like his reader's not to dwell on old works simply because they're old. He was a fan of the Lensmen series but he admitted that it seemed dated to him in 70s, to paraphrase "Science marches on, but science-fiction must run further ahead... to light the path of inspiration".

Yeah...I agree with many that the HH books sucked, I quit reading them, even though I wanted to know the end. What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts. That is the same thing that bothered me about Emperors Mercy.
Someone mention the Cain books, and those are my favorites. Also I do like the Grey Knight books...Hammer of Daemons was weird but hopefully the next one (if there is one) will be better.

I've only read the dark apostle/dark disciple books about the word bearers, but I think they've been pretty good so far. They've brought the world of 40k a bit more to life for me and that's all I was really looking for. I didn't expect them to expand my mind or be a pioneer in the world of fiction.

Geemoney wrote: What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts.

How could this possibly be the truth when the horus heresy happened? If there was no doubt in any of them they wouldve strode along behind the emperor forever. Chaos found the chinks in their human armor and exploited it. They may be smaller than the average person, but they still have doubts and human emotions like pride and envy.

I agree Halsfield, the HH pretty much tells you that in the end their all still human.

I just finish Descent of Angels, and I quite enjoyed it. Not too taxing on the brain...

<--ducks

cmac wrote:I just finish Descent of Angels, and I quite enjoyed it. Not too taxing on the brain...

<--ducks

Hey, I didn't mind the book either, on the other hand, I'm finding Fallen Angels hard to page through...

"hides behind cmac"

I personally enjoyed Descent of Angels more than Fallen Angels.

Then again I just re-read Angels of Darkness and everything makes a bit more sense in that book now.

@rdlb
I enjoy the BL books for what they are, pulp sci-fi. No its not Hugo-winning science fiction, but that doesn't mean its TRASH. Are you trying to tell me that anything that's not Asimov, Clarke, etc. isn't worth reading? Come on man. Its like movies, I enjoy the deep and moving ones AS MUCH as the ones about zombie aliens or w/e.

I love the stuff by William Gibson, Frederick Pohl, and Walter Miller. AND many many BL books as well (except CS Goto, because he is flat out a bad author).

Actually.. I think Goto has trancended being a "bad writer" and is so god awefull that he must be awesome.

I think that most of the 40k books are fascinating to read, although some are slow reads. For me it is less about enjoying them and more about learning more about the 40k universe in a more detailed way. I've read the Grey Knights omnibus, the Ultramarines Omnibus, books one through eleven of the Horus Heresy series, and now I'm working on Scourge the Heretic.

I liked the initial trilogy of the Horus Hersy series when it came to quality... even though I didn't care for how the interex were brushed aside without any further role. Eisenstein was ok, Fulgrim was a bit much, Descent of Angels was alright, Legion was tough to read for a while... but the ideas in it made the book worth reading, Battle for the Abyss I'll give credit to for having thousand sons in a prominant role, Mechanicum was bizzare but alright, Tales of Heresy had some good stories some slow stories, and Fallen Angels was pretty painful. I hope to read more of them eventually, especially the ones dealing with the Thousand Sons.

[quote=Grotzooka

On the subject of other sci-fi, who's to say that we don't all read stuff by the greats? This is a thread about BL, so the discussion has stuck there.

Slarg232 wrote:

still, maybe its just me but ...

Did you skip the part where he was heavily influenced by the chaos powers that were wielded through a very close friend/advisor of his? He was also extremely prideful already and just waiting for someone to tell him what his innermost ego was telling him(that he was better/wiser than the emperor and needed to wrest control away from the emp to himself for the betterment of mankind). The chaos influence simply sealed the deal.

Halsfield wrote:I've only read the dark apostle/dark disciple books about the word bearers, but I think they've been pretty good so far. They've brought the world of 40k a bit more to life for me and that's all I was really looking for. I didn't expect them to expand my mind or be a pioneer in the world of fiction.

Geemoney wrote: What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts.

How could this possibly be the truth when the horus heresy happened? If there was no doubt in any of them they wouldve strode along behind the emperor forever. Chaos found the chinks in their human armor and exploited it. They may be smaller than the average person, but they still have doubts and human emotions like pride and envy.

Clearly they have emotions ie pride and envy. But they turned the Space Marines into a bunch of women, saying things like...lets get in a group and talk about our feelings, or I don't know what to do, I'm so confused. I just figured Space Marines would either say F*** you Emporor I'm going to kill you or F**** you evil SM I'm going to kill you.
Lets have a WAAAR!!
It could be just the writing style; but it bothered me.

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


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I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

Who says that in order to enjoy those novels you have to hate BL books? I think you're too high up on a high horse and need to step off it. Come back down to the world of people who can enjoy what ever they want.

Although I tend to read far more general fiction than BL novels, I agree with BrotherStynier.

I find now that the Black Library novels mostly take up all of what I want to read at mo.

Used to read the Star Wars novels. recently tried to pick one up and just couldn't. too childish.

What does that say about me??????/

Warhammer 40000 novels are fine but star wars is too childish........weird

Eyclonus wrote: Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

Have to agree that Abnett is by far the best BL author i've had the pleasure of reading. His Eisenhorn series got me into BL novels in earnest and eventually into the hobby itself. (I was a long time BL reader before ever picking up a mini). Does he do other fiction? apart from BL?

In terms of HH i've not read past the original trilogy but i found that pretty enjoyable , if only for the nice background fluff you can pick out from it.

I like James Swallow and Graham Mcneil. Dan Abnett was good until I read "Legion".

His Eisenhorn series i'll have to reread, and I did enjoy Ravenor..

Corennus wrote:I like James Swallow and Graham Mcneil. Dan Abnett was good until I read "Legion".

His Eisenhorn series i'll have to reread, and I did enjoy Ravenor..

Ah, "Legion". What a strange book. I enjoyed it, even in all of its madness and plot twists of doom, but I don't think I'll ever be able to read it again. Once was good for me.

Da Boss wrote:
Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

Agree 100%

rdlb wrote:Jules Verne was a pioneer in the genre, these guys are just writing stories set in a world they already know. Not the same thing...

Are you sure that CS Goto knows 40K universe?

BrotherStynier wrote:Who says that in order to enjoy those novels you have to hate BL books?

THAT is the point.

the most enjoyable books i have read are by Dan Abnett. he seems like the best author. Guants ghosts are amazing, and the Eisenhorn trilogy is fantastic. the reason Gaunts ghosts are amazing is because they actually survive to live another dozen novels or so. 99% of one-off IG novels are where entire groups, regiments or armies crumble to a few men. example:

i find graham mcneils Ultramarine stories reasonable, though they could be improved. as i go back to Dan Abnett. his stories are the most realistic and interesting i have ever read, and a really good use of characters.[/spoiler] but other wise, start digging up books by him. they are very good.

EDITED FOR SOLADRIN. HAPPY NOW???????

First, spoiler warnings you twit.

Secondly, this guy again "rolls eyes"

Seriously, IG IS HORDE IN 40K GET THAT THROUGH YOUR BLOODY SKULL.

Sorry for my fit, he's getting on my nerves by spreading it to another thread.

Back to the main topic.

Fallen Angels is making my eyes bleed, im contemplating to just put it back on the shelf and re-read something better, like Dawn of War.... ahem.... ok I'll just wait till i get Faith and Fire in the mail..

right. first thing. im new. there was no DAKKA DAKKA rants and raves section (which there should be) secondly. wtf is with people posting of burning. i come to this forum for help on subjects and get people posting images of burning. if you bother so much about people ranting and a stupid posts trolling or whatever, take it away and put a rave section. and im not spreading my terrible rubbish, i am just saying my opinion, not spreading it. you are seriously getting on my nerves. SHUT UP!

brickhouse wrote:

Eyclonus wrote: Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

Have to agree that Abnett is by far the best BL author i've had the pleasure of reading. His Eisenhorn series got me into BL novels in earnest and eventually into the hobby itself. (I was a long time BL reader before ever picking up a mini). Does he do other fiction? apart from BL?

In terms of HH i've not read past the original trilogy but i found that pretty enjoyable , if only for the nice background fluff you can pick out from it.

Abnett use to write for 2,000 AD back in the 80s. He's done some work for Marvel and I think some DC. He wrote the Torchwood novel Border Princes which is one of the more popular novels for that part of the franchise.

Here is the Omissiah's listing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Dan_Abnett yes he gets his own page for his bibliography.

Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

I enjoy them for immersion purposes, since I don't love any other fictional setting more than Warhammer, but I have to say, most of the novels are written pretty badly...

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Grotzooka wrote:

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Spoiler:

The Alpha Legion now believes its mission is to help Horus exterminate the human race so that Horus will fall into remorse at his actions and kill himself and his followers. With no human emotion to feed off, the Warp will collapse and evil will be gone from the galaxy. There are just 3 questions; Is this really what the Emperor wanted, WHY did Horus fail EVEN WITH THE LEGION, and why on earth are the Alpha Legion still following the advice of a group that was obviously wrong about everything?

Actually my thoughts refer to all three of your doubts. I think that Alpha legion is becoming a sort of double agent against chaos, and that Alpharius was looking for a way to preserve humanity and defeat chaos by pretending to become loyal to chaos to look for a weakness. Until then it is all secrets and lies as it says on the front of the book legion. I think it may be a brilliant desception that could perhaps end in the defeat of Chaos if it succeeds. Though this IS only a theory, it makes sense to me.

My fav is dark apostle so far.

Dialask wrote:

Grotzooka wrote:

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Spoiler:

The Alpha Legion now believes its mission is to help Horus exterminate the human race so that Horus will fall into remorse at his actions and kill himself and his followers. With no human emotion to feed off, the Warp will collapse and evil will be gone from the galaxy. There are just 3 questions; Is this really what the Emperor wanted, WHY did Horus fail EVEN WITH THE LEGION, and why on earth are the Alpha Legion still following the advice of a group that was obviously wrong about everything?

Actually my thoughts refer to all three of your doubts. I think that Alpha legion is becoming a sort of double agent against chaos, and that Alpharius was looking for a way to preserve humanity and defeat chaos by pretending to become loyal to chaos to look for a weakness. Until then it is all secrets and lies as it says on the front of the book legion. I think it may be a brilliant desception that could perhaps end in the defeat of Chaos if it succeeds. Though this IS only a theory, it makes sense to me.

Oooh! I never thought of that.

The problem is thinking "oh? Alpha legion are secretly loyalists are they? That's strange they seem to be pretty depraved by M41!!"

I think the idea is a good one, but since no-one knows if Alpharius or Omegon is in charge of the legion I have my own idea.

Alpharius was set on trying to stay loyal, but once he get killed by Guilliman Ogemon, overcome by grief and rage, turned away from his twin's ideal and set the legion firmly on the way to Chaos.

I really like them. I've red "Storm of Iron" and "Hellforged" and I've really enjoyed them. They are a good way of going deeper in the W40k background. I recommnend read them, even for a person who doesn't know anything about W40k. ^^

Grambo wrote:My fav is dark apostle so far.

Loved dark apostle. The snippet of dark creed I read on the black library site was great as well.

Dark disciple wasn't quite as entertaining because it lacked enormous scenes of battle and the dark eldar/imperial side of the book was quite weak(not weak because they lost, that was expected, but weak because it wasn't very well fleshed out). It was still a great read but I'm looking forward to dark creed once I have the time to read it.

I'd love to see a series of books from reynolds on some of the other chaos legions or some unknown renegades (ie purge, my personal favorite).

Corennus wrote:I find now that the Black Library novels mostly take up all of what I want to read at mo.

Used to read the Star Wars novels. recently tried to pick one up and just couldn't. too childish.

What does that say about me??????/

Warhammer 40000 novels are fine but star wars is too childish........weird

I have the same. SW went down the drain a long time ago.

yep

I rate the Gaunts Ghosts series very highly, on the 3rd omnibus now. Even a friend who isn't interested in 40K is now a fan and borrows after I'm done.

Something I'd like to know is why 'Descent of Angels' is such a bad book? I understand that some of the HH novels are poor but this one seems to get special attention.

Haven't read it myself, just interested...

I've read the Ultramarines trilogy and then the other one too. In the trilogy some things are over the top, like the UM's with other marines getting into a fortress which is currently under siege by a legion!

Planetkill novel was ok. But most the stories were gak.

Heroes of Space Marines is interesting.

Sons of Dorn isn't too bad. It's a bit OTT at the end though.

Storm of Iron is pretty decent read though.

Don Cooperino wrote:I rate the Gaunts Ghosts series very highly, on the 3rd omnibus now. Even a friend who isn't interested in 40K is now a fan and borrows after I'm done.

Something I'd like to know is why 'Descent of Angels' is such a bad book? I understand that some of the HH novels are poor but this one seems to get special attention.

Haven't read it myself, just interested...

Well, it wasn't as bad as Fallen Angels. Descent of Angels began by wandering completely away from 40k, going to a world where they only have remnants of technology. Later it goes to being more 40k ish, and it gets into a drably predictable situation. The book was disgustingly predictable, moreso than most 40k books. To me it wasn't all that great, but it was the first time in HH (I think) we actually get to see the emporer. There are reasons to read it, but if you are only going to read one HH book, don't pick that one unless you really like the Dark Angels.

Thanks Dialask, doesn't sound too great, although like the sound of the Emporer being actually involved. I read Horus Rising and enjoyed it and plan to read the next 2 in the series, heard they're good.

I'd have to say the opening trilogy is the best. Beyond that it depends on the purpose of why you are reading the HH series. Just looking for a good book? HH series isn't what I'd recommend. Interested in learning the history of 40k, and more about how things took place? That is what the HH series is for. Not only is it history, but also I think some foreshadowing to things that happen later on. Legion, for example, I think means that Dan Abnett has plans for a book about Alpha Legion in the main series. I may be wrong, but you see things like that throughout HH.

I'd have to say I have such a weakness for the black library books, there are just so many of them that I own close to a hundred I believe.

And some of the Horus Heresy books are wonderful. Any of the Abnett ones are great. I mean he opened horus rising with "I was there the day Horus Killed the Emperor", what a way to start off the Horus Heresy books that everyone had been looking forward to so much.

Also A Thousand Sons was Fantastic! It actually got up to number 22 on the New York Times best selling fiction list. That was the first time the Black Library has put a book on the NYT bestseller list.

What it comes down to is how committed to the fluff you are, because if you love Space Marines you would know that every story has an enemy capable of killing the Marines.


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Also Dark Creed was excellent, the finale of that book is just adrenaline

I'm choosy about what I read so so far I've not been disappointed, I've read-

All Gaunt' Ghosts
All Ciaphus Cain
Gunheads
Desert Raiders
Cadian Blood
Relentless

and now I'm on Flesh and Iron which I'm loving because it uses three things I'm all about- IG, Riverine ops and Planet Pinoy! The planet is basically the Philippines and they're fighting Moros, which is similar to the background of my Guard regiment.

Just finished reading Soul Hunter, it is the first Chaosy book I've read not counting some of the HH stuff and I really enjoyed it.

@people earlier in the thread getting very stuck up about books:

I have read War and Peace, most Shakespear, Dante's Inferno etc at Uni and I understand them when I read 40K novels it is not to experience some of the great cultural works of man it is because I can understand and keep up with the plot while my wife and kids talk to me/pull my hair etc. Some of the writing is chronically bad but apart from C.S Goto I can cope with that because I enjoy the subject matter. So calm down dears it's only a thread

I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

1) No idea, sorry.
2) Well, I liked Mechanicum, but then I also liked Abyss.

I'm a complete sucker for the background GW puts out especially 40k stuff. Eisenhorn was really good as are the space wolf novels. My fave though of the current generation is Execution Hour (probably because i love BFG) its pace, space battles and tension are brilliant. Lots of novels have a similar structure, lots of gore (all yay!) and a traitor (Salamander/Storm of Iron etc) in the midst, but most have some really good twists in. Loathed Storm of Iron, the imperium are idiots except for one or two (how do they still control the galaxy?), chaos are invincible and the traitor is obligatory.

Incidentally how do space marine chapters survive? The fists loose a whole company in about five minutes in storm of iron yet all chapters only seem to recruit one or two blokes a year.

Finally would anyone else like to see the phrase, something something even for a Marine, banned?

He was broad/tall/strong.... etc

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

I thought Mechanicum was good, Tales of Heresy is a collection of short stories including a couple with the Emperor in them.
I enjoyed reading Fallen Angels though it seemed inconsistent with the previous one, different authors of course.
Thousand Sons is good though the Council of Nikaea part seemed rushed and overly simplified given who was in attendance.

Ben Counter is a reasonable author, he wrote Galaxy in Flames too of course, but Battle for the Abyss fails for two major reasons.
The first is that it is a vanilla book about marines fighting bad guys and has very little to add to the background story of the Horus Heresy which is the main reason people want to read the book.
The second is that having set the Word Bearers up as specialists in ship fighting, he then has his ragtag team of heroes defeat them at every turn like some kids cartoon.
A pity he's not alone in such things.
I liked however his Grey Knights series, not such a fan of the Soul Drinkers series with Squiddly Diddly at the helm.

I'd have to re-read the Blood Ravens stories by Goto to pass any real judgement on him but I feel he's become more an icon of derision rather than genuinely being the bad author that some make him out to be. A bit like some make out GW to be the spawn of satan until something new comes out and then curse their lack of money.

Only start reading the BL books after I came here in the U.S., so far read Sons of Dorn, near the end of A Thousand Sons, and with Mechanicum coming up. I have to say it's really hard to generalize in a category of "WH40k" novels. Every book is different and could not be evaluate together. Like A Thousand Sons, I just love it, the best Sci-fi I have read since The Firstborn, with amazing amount of fluff about A Thousand Sons road to chaos and standing on Ahriman's point of view to watch the legion and Magus the Red falling into the abyss one step after the other. Compared to this book Sons of Dorn would be colorless but it's a good book in its own right, great fluff on how a SM chapter picks their new Astartes and how the scouts fight differently from the general body of SMs. I mean after all they each gives a unique piece of this Warhammer 40k world and shows it to you; and each should be evaluate separately. So far I enjoy all the WH40k novels I read.

almost done reading Salamander...

I think that it's a pretty good book. A good mixture of lore, fluff, and some very interesting tid bits about the Salamanders.

Personally I think there needs to be more books on the countless chapters, loyal or fallen, of space marines. Or maybe even some on the orcs.

Has anyone heard of a book called heroes something something? It's got a picture of a marine in some gold power armour. I'm wondering if it's any good

Problem with Salamander is you kind of need to get Heroes of the Space Marines as well to really understand the hatred between the two sergeants.

And yeah the book is Heroes of the Space Marines.


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Ummm let's see......

Some of the book is good. Some is fluff. Salamanders story is the standout one for me.

i really loved fifteen hours it gave the guard a bit more human feel to them and unlike almost every other BL book it doesnt have the heroes blasting and hacking their way through every possible enemy out there.

finished reading the BA omnibus, it's not bad. I'm just wondering what a few of you think about the BA series.

Let me use this thread to plug ANYTHING by Henry Zou. Read "Emperor's Mercy" and then immediately follow that with "Flesh and Iron." You will not be disappointed.

cadbren wrote:

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

I thought Mechanicum was good, Tales of Heresy is a collection of short stories including a couple with the Emperor in them.
I enjoyed reading Fallen Angels though it seemed inconsistent with the previous one, different authors of course.
Thousand Sons is good though the Council of Nikaea part seemed rushed and overly simplified given who was in attendance.

Ben Counter is a reasonable author, he wrote Galaxy in Flames too of course, but Battle for the Abyss fails for two major reasons.
The first is that it is a vanilla book about marines fighting bad guys and has very little to add to the background story of the Horus Heresy which is the main reason people want to read the book.
The second is that having set the Word Bearers up as specialists in ship fighting, he then has his ragtag team of heroes defeat them at every turn like some kids cartoon.
A pity he's not alone in such things.
I liked however his Grey Knights series, not such a fan of the Soul Drinkers series with Squiddly Diddly at the helm.

I'd have to re-read the Blood Ravens stories by Goto to pass any real judgement on him but I feel he's become more an icon of derision rather than genuinely being the bad author that some make him out to be. A bit like some make out GW to be the spawn of satan until something new comes out and then curse their lack of money.

Apologies for the slight necro ... Cadbren: thanks for the response. I'd forgotten Ben Counter also wrote Galaxy in Flames (which I enjoyed) - maybe Battle for the Abyss was just an off-book for him. I've now finished it and it didn't get any better. The sole redeeming feature, imo, was Skraal - the guy's a legend!

olympia wrote:Let me use this thread to plug ANYTHING by Henry Zou. Read "Emperor's Mercy" and then immediately follow that with "Flesh and Iron." You will not be disappointed.

I was a little disappointed :(

I didn't realise BL books got bashed so much.
I own every BL book produced (40k & warhammer) I only read them for a bit of escapism. I know they are silly sometimes but I still enjoy them and don't tend to read much else now. I just read the new ig novel flesh and iron which I thought was excellent. I liked 13th legion from years ago. I think the hh have gone downhill after an excellent start but are still decent. Favorite series are ciaphas Cain and haunts ghost

What did anyone think of the Grey Knights Omnibus? Worth it?

olympia wrote:I can recommend Henry Zou, Emperor's Mercy, unreservedly. Most of the HH material is crap.

Almost all the Inquisition books are amazingly good. About 60% of the HH books are great reads(Being a Dark Angels player, I liked the DA books ). Alot of the IQ books are decent.

Storm of Iron is a good stand alone book. One of the few Chaos books I like.


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Also, all this Fan fiction/High Horse talk, while true, is un-called for. This is a 40k sub forum to a Forum dedicated to Table top gaming... I mean, really what did you guys expect?



Also, Ya'll should read a nice little book called Metamorphosis of Prime-Intellect. Might not be able to find it IRL, but there is a website dedicated to keeping it up on line.

DA's Forever wrote:What did anyone think of the Grey Knights Omnibus? Worth it?

It's a fun one. Hammer of Daemons is the best, but the others are pretty good as well.

Sweet, gonna get it this weekend

I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

The codexs contribute a good chunk of the lore and fluff

Finished reading Dawn Of War.
Actually quite enjoyed it. The other two books you can leave, as that's when Goto takes over and the flights of fancy come in.

Corennus wrote:Finished reading Dawn Of War.
Actually quite enjoyed it. The other two books you can leave, as that's when Goto takes over and the flights of fancy come in.

I never actually read the second and third (mostly because I got bored halfway through 2) but I did find one thing that was interesting - the second book actually did kind of subtly point out one of the major flaws in the Dawn of War games. During a battle with cloaked Eldar (rangers?) the Space Marines manage to take some down by essentially firing their bolters randomly, since they can't actually see their opponents. In the first DoW games, you can't actually shoot cloaked units without using a Detector to spot them first.

Anyways, done being off-topic.

I just want to point out (again, I know) that the Space Wolves omnibus is a fantastic read. Finally finished Ragnar's Claw, and it was really interesting. It seems silly describing it, but there was one scene during the book that Ragnar and his Claw got into a buggy race against a bunch of Orks. Silly? Perhaps, but still, one of the only novels I've seen that actually shows more insight into an alien race, even if it is just the Orks (Who we expect to act that way anyway).

Augh, Orks a la William King drive me crazy. They are cartoony in their sillyness and are not scary or even threatening at all. The buggy race was a pretty neat sequence, but the mooning and peeing and dumbness detract from any good writing that may be seen.

The Eisenhorn trilogy was amazing.
Ravenor wasn't as interesting, but still good.

The Gaunt's Ghosts series has had its moments and is worth reading, but I feel like it's running out of steam.

HH is hit or miss.

I just want to point out (again, I know) that the Space Wolves omnibus is a fantastic read. Finally finished Ragnar's Claw, and it was really interesting. It seems silly describing it, but there was one scene during the book that Ragnar and his Claw got into a buggy race against a bunch of Orks. Silly? Perhaps, but still, one of the only novels I've seen that actually shows more insight into an alien race, even if it is just the Orks (Who we expect to act that way anyway).

I agree with Locclo, the space wolves omnibus was a fantastic read, too bad for me I still have to find two more Space wolves books to tie up a few ends. It was nice seeing the lives of the space marines through those of a raw recruit. It made them seem a bit more human, but with the amazing abilities of space marines

*oh and sorry about the quote mess up, I'm still trying to figure out how it works*

All I got to say and I know others probably have Dan Abnet and Gaunt's Ghosts.

The best books ever are Gaunt's Ghosts: the others aren't even close. Do yourself a favor and start reading them from the beggining at "First and Only".
Also Brothers of the Snake is awesome too.


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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

No I would say the BL books are based on the lore in the Instruction Manuals and Codexes. Especially HH cuz they need to follow he overall storyline.

storm of iron is best bl book i have read

btw that was one epic horse @ page 3

Shatter.proof wrote:All I got to say and I know others probably have Dan Abnet and Gaunt's Ghosts.

Agreed.

I recently saw another BL novel called "Legends of the Space Marines". I'm wondering if this is a new book or has it been out for a while, and if it's any good.

The problem is some authors take some serious liberties on how troops act in their book, like for instance in the book hammer to daemons any one at all who fights chaos is killed by the grey knights.. hell SEEING chaos means you need to be cleansed and that means they light you on fire..

Now I don't think that makes much sense since there are many IG chapters and warmasters that fight chaos almost constantly so why would they torch every person who's ever seen them?

Personally I feel people who do their own series with their own unique guys do it well at least from what I've read which would be the Gaunt's Ghost (which is up to what.. 12 books?) and the Soul Drinker's books. I've heard the space wolves books are alright but if you want the creme de la creme I'd say Gaunt's Ghosts is great. I'd also recommend the Malice Darkblade series from fantasy, I feel that is also a very strong series.

Shatter.proof wrote:The problem is some authors take some serious liberties on how troops act in their book, like for instance in the book hammer to daemons any one at all who fights chaos is killed by the grey knights.. hell SEEING chaos means you need to be cleansed and that means they light you on fire..

Now I don't think that makes much sense since there are many IG chapters and warmasters that fight chaos almost constantly so why would they torch every person who's ever seen them?

Personally I feel people who do their own series with their own unique guys do it well at least from what I've read which would be the Gaunt's Ghost (which is up to what.. 12 books?) and the Soul Drinker's books. I've heard the space wolves books are alright but if you want the creme de la creme I'd say Gaunt's Ghosts is great. I'd also recommend the Malice Darkblade series from fantasy, I feel that is also a very strong series.

Well then it sounds lilke Hammer to Daemons finally represents the inquistion right then. It is standard policey to kill anyone that's seen a daemon but that doesn't mean its always carried out properly, especially by non Ordo Maleas (sp?). I find most inquisition books don't have Inquisitors living up to their hardcore reputation.

The first one I read The inquisition war was awful but the ultramarines series I love. I even started a Tau army because of the description in courage and honour.

Da Boss wrote:

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

*snipped for brevity*

Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

Seriously +1.

The books are what got me into WH:40K at all. Most of what has been posted here made me want to tear my hair out. It is painfully apparent that some people either take this WAY too seriously or that you can't picture WH:40K without dice. In both scenarios, it is sad.

@Slarg- Dude. It isn't just some random, wondering Chaplain. It is Erebus, the very same Chaplain who started to dance with Chaos way back in the day with that other prominent Word Bearer (he had some weird name with an apostrophe in it). This Erebus whispered into Lorgar's ear and is one of the reasons why the Word Bearers said "screw this guy, we're going to the eye of terror" (well, that and the Book of Lorgar...but the BoL was written after Erebus had corrupted Lorgar). Lorgar had sent Erebus over to Horus as a personal envoy. As of right now, I am not too sure how the relationship was between Lorgar and Horus but evidently, it was enough so that when Erebus got there Horus was like "Yeah dudes, Mournival....uhm gtfo". I agree that there is a hole there, but not with why Horus listened to Erebus rather than his beloved Mournival. I think the hole is when Erebus told the Mournival of the ultra secret, no catch, cure all and half of them bought and the other half was like "Wtf no".


I have read both of Henry Zhous books (not too sure if he has more than two, but I do not think so)
I've read all the Soul Drinkers books and LOVE them.
I read "The Saint" GG omnibus, the Ciaphas Cain Omnibus, The Space Wolves first omnibus (I have the second, just waiting to read it), all the HH books out (and I love all of them for different reasons), and a good amount of others I cannot remember because I am at work. Oh yeah, I'm finishing up The Inquisition War and it has to be one of my least favorite books. Confusing, mindless, wtf.

Edit:

I agree with Firesolved, the books are what brought me into this. Many people are too into the game and overlook the attempts of some authors to entertain those who are not particularily versed in WH40k.

I've read all the Ciaphas Cain novels, and the first Space Wolves omnibus, and they were both pretty good. I've also read the complete Gotrek and Felix series.

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I've also read the complete Gotrek and Felix series.

Is it good?

Fulgrim himself wasn't overpowered - a Primarch being able to hand-to-hand an avatar, and get beat up and seriously burned in the process, is pretty much along the lines of the fluff. And being able to chop a falcon in half with a sword is, if you think about it, something Abaddon can actually do in the current game. Seeing a primarch do it with a stronger daemon sword isn't out of line.

I'm reading Dark Acolyte right now, and I like it except that it seems like a massive 100 million "point" battle could happen at any time. It starts out as a backwater planet landing that "was so small and insignificant it wouldn't draw the attention of the space marine legions". So only the Elysians respond. Yet there's an Emperor titan, some other mechanicus super-machine, over 10,000 chaos space marines and hundreds of millions of guardsmen. Whaaa?

The sheer SCALE of the battle is what staggers me. This is a backwater planet? Really? This is the kind of engagement that happens on distant, unnoticed worlds? What the hell?

But the actual story is good. I like seeing the intricate workings of the Word Bearers. I flipped through Soul Hunter the other day and it looks really good. Really like the Night Lords as portrayed in that book.

Spellbound wrote:Fulgrim himself wasn't overpowered - a Primarch being able to hand-to-hand an avatar, and get beat up and seriously burned in the process, is pretty much along the lines of the fluff. And being able to chop a falcon in half with a sword is, if you think about it, something Abaddon can actually do in the current game. Seeing a primarch do it with a stronger daemon sword isn't out of line.

I'm reading Dark Acolyte right now, and I like it except that it seems like a massive 100 million "point" battle could happen at any time. It starts out as a backwater planet landing that "was so small and insignificant it wouldn't draw the attention of the space marine legions". So only the Elysians respond. Yet there's an Emperor titan, some other mechanicus super-machine, over 10,000 chaos space marines and hundreds of millions of guardsmen. Whaaa?

The sheer SCALE of the battle is what staggers me. This is a backwater planet? Really? This is the kind of engagement that happens on distant, unnoticed worlds? What the hell?

But the actual story is good. I like seeing the intricate workings of the Word Bearers. I flipped through Soul Hunter the other day and it looks really good. Really like the Night Lords as portrayed in that book.

Well when chaos threatens to bring in a warp rift that will turn a world into a daemon world...yes...there are a million IGs and an Imperator class Titan.

Soul Hunter is AWESOME. Read The Night Lord as well.

I've read all of the HH books so far (although I am a bit behind... currently reading A Thousand Sons, which is great).

All the GK books, all the Ultramarine books, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Soul Drinker books, more beyond that.

I'd say I generally enjoy them, but sometimes they let me down a bit. Anything by Graham and Dan are generally great imo, and I usually like Ben Counter's work.

C.S. Goto is almost always pretty awful, so I avoid his books. The only HH book I was really disappointed in was Descent of Angels, which took me much longer to finish than almost every other one. I didn't LOVE some of the others as much as I loved the first 2 (which I think were the best, although 1000 Sons is getting there), but on a whole they have been pretty good.

They are entertaining, which is what they are supposed to be. They certainly aren't mind blowing, or make you question the foundations of your beliefs/knowledge (although some parallels have come close, heh).

Dawn of War got me into 40k to begin with, then the books, and mostly the books keep me here. Although I still really love Dawn of War... I wish they'd make a 40k a new 40k fps! (ugh firewarrior)

daedalus-templarius wrote:I've read all of the HH books so far (although I am a bit behind... currently reading A Thousand Sons, which is great).

Nope, you are up to speed. Prospero Burns isn't set to come out til January of next year IIRC.

Firesolved wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:I've read all of the HH books so far (although I am a bit behind... currently reading A Thousand Sons, which is great).

Nope, you are up to speed. Prospero Burns isn't set to come out til January of next year IIRC.

Yea I noticed that, I thought Prospero was coming out sooner than that, or already was out. Guess I'll continue my quest to find Courage and Honor(I think that's the one after the Killing Ground anyway) in softback.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Firesolved wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:I've read all of the HH books so far (although I am a bit behind... currently reading A Thousand Sons, which is great).

Nope, you are up to speed. Prospero Burns isn't set to come out til January of next year IIRC.

Yea I noticed that, I thought Prospero was coming out sooner than that, or already was out. Guess I'll continue my quest to find Courage and Honor(I think that's the one after the Killing Ground anyway) in softback.

You should try the Soul Drinkers novels if you haven't already (although you said you liked Ben Counter, that doesn't mean you've read em yet!).

Firesolved wrote:
You should try the Soul Drinkers novels if you haven't already (although you said you liked Ben Counter, that doesn't mean you've read em yet!).

Yea, I've read all of them
unless a new one since Chapter War has come out. I checked the BL site earlier and didn't see anything new I need to grab.

Soul Hunter was pretty decent. Eisenhorn is one of the best 40k books imo, as its not shooty shooty bang bang-the plot is very interesting
Hats off to Mr Abnett. Ravenor was good to, but not as good as Eisenhorn.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Firesolved wrote:
You should try the Soul Drinkers novels if you haven't already (although you said you liked Ben Counter, that doesn't mean you've read em yet!).

Yea, I've read all of them
unless a new one since Chapter War has come out. I checked the BL site earlier and didn't see anything new I need to grab.

For future reference, get your books off of ebay or amazon. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper. In the past year since I bought Emperor's Mercy, I've amassed well over 500 bucks worth of WH:40K books. Some might say this is a waste ("Hey ya git, ya culda uzed that shiny stuff ta get a pack o' me killingest choppa boyz."), but I am happy with my investment. I've paid maybe half of what the worth of all my books is (based off MSRP of course). All due to Amazon/Ebay.

I get all my books from the library! It's free!

I'm at the moment trying to get my hands on the the Grey Knight novels and maybe the Ultramarines, I just need help in figuring out which book starts each series. Help??

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I get all my books from the library! It's free!

I'm at the moment trying to get my hands on the the Grey Knight novels and maybe the Ultramarines, I just need help in figuring out which book starts each series. Help??

Try getting the ominibus; several books in one, and no need to find out order.

True, that's how I got through the blood angels and space wolves, but aren't there more than one omnibus' for the ultra marines and grey knights?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:True, that's how I got through the blood angels and space wolves, but aren't there more than one omnibus' for the ultra marines and grey knights?

...

Okay, I can't help you there.

Ummm....

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Knights_%28Novel_Series%29

Seems to be one omnibus for GK. But I'm no expert here.

I feel quite alone in having loved Descent of Angels, but maybe thats just because I'm a Dark Angels player that plays them because of their fluff. Meh. Only one I've read so far and looking forward to getting the second installment.

Luco wrote:I feel quite alone in having loved Descent of Angels, but maybe thats just because I'm a Dark Angels player that plays them because of their fluff. Meh. Only one I've read so far and looking forward to getting the second installment.

The first part of Descent was pretty good, but as soon as everyone became Space Marines everything got rushed and not very interesting.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:True, that's how I got through the blood angels and space wolves, but aren't there more than one omnibus' for the ultra marines and grey knights?

There are two Omnibuses for Space Wolves. Not sure about the Ultramarines and Grey Knights (I dont like either one of em anyways).

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:True, that's how I got through the blood angels and space wolves, but aren't there more than one omnibus' for the ultra marines and grey knights?

There is only one GK omnibus, I hope Counter is working on another book tbh, I enjoy the Gk books, and the ending of Hammer of Daemons definitely paved the way for more good stuff in the future.

There is one Ultramarines omnibus, but then another 2(maybe 3?) books on top of that. Once Graham writes another 3 they will probably make another omnibus. I am still hunting for a paperback of Courage and Honor, I think I just need to order it off amazon.

Luco wrote:I feel quite alone in having loved Descent of Angels, but maybe thats just because I'm a Dark Angels player that plays them because of their fluff. Meh. Only one I've read so far and looking forward to getting the second installment.

I liked it!

Ah, so it's the second space wolves omnibus that escaped me. I'll get right on them. As soon as 6 other people finish reading them...

*sigh*

the drawbacks of the library...

The only 40k book I've read was Xenology, and I thought that was a decent read. Wouldn't really say its a novel though.

Gorechild wrote:The only 40k book I've read was Xenology, and I thought that was a decent read. Wouldn't really say its a novel though.

Ya, I read that. There was an actual overall story to it though, it just wasn't that good. I think the final evil-doer was a necron lord or something. I remember it being a total bust.

Usually? No.

But I did enjoy the Ciaphas Cain series.

I love the novels. I have quite an extensive collection ranging from SM to Inquisition and everything in between. Favorite Author is Graham McNeil.

Ok so I'm not alone, just in a small group (Yay! ) ~ . I agree with the second part being rushed, but I still didn't want to put it down. Still, on the same par with the second Halo book.

I just read Death or Glory.

Gotta love Cain.

Since I really like the faction, I've been additively reading the book Faith and Fire about the Sisters of Battle. I'm really enjoying it and am at the last two chapters. I really like it and am also interested in other books such as Lord of the Night and the Dark Apostle series, but don't know much about either.

Deep Throat wrote:Since I really like the faction, I've been additively reading the book Faith and Fire about the Sisters of Battle. I'm really enjoying it and am at the last two chapters. I really like it and am also interested in other books such as Lord of the Night and the Dark Apostle series, but don't know much about either.

I would highly suggest The Dark Apostle series. Lord of the Night is pretty epic and if you like that one, you should DEFINITELY read the newer Soul Hunter.

I used to think the Night Lords were a bunch of wanton murderers with no direction. I was wrong.

Firesolved wrote:...you should DEFINITELY read the newer Soul Hunter.

I second this. Soul Hunter is pretty amazing.

Firesolved wrote:

Deep Throat wrote:Since I really like the faction, I've been additively reading the book Faith and Fire about the Sisters of Battle. I'm really enjoying it and am at the last two chapters. I really like it and am also interested in other books such as Lord of the Night and the Dark Apostle series, but don't know much about either.

I would highly suggest The Dark Apostle series. Lord of the Night is pretty epic and if you like that one, you should DEFINITELY read the newer Soul Hunter.

I used to think the Night Lords were a bunch of wanton murderers with no direction. I was wrong.

They aren't?

Not even close. In my personal opinion, they are the only traitor legion with any kind of motivation at all. While Abaddon and the Emperor's Children run around like coke-addicts in Tin Man costumes, the Night Lords seem like they have a cohesive drive and a common purpose that transcends their own petty disputes. I just read Soul Hunter, and was so blown away that I can barely describe it.

Now don't get me wrong, they are still evil. Wanton murderers? Certainly. No direction? Absolutely not the case. The Night Lords have more purpose than several of the loyalist chapters.

Firesolved, good pick.

Canuck, you should check it out. It's good stuff.

But what purpose could they have? Are you sure it isn't just "Death to The False Emperor!"

Also I would say Alpha Legion is up to something too.

I enjoy pretty much anything by Dan Abnett or Sandy Mitchell.

My favorite single book though, was "Zavant" by Gordon Rennie. The main characters are a WFB version of Holmes and Watson. Of course, I've read many more Sherlock Homes pastiche novels than Black Library.

Jimsolo wrote:the Night Lords seem like they have a cohesive drive and a common purpose

I'm thinking not so much. While your discription of Abaddon and his flunkies is accurate, the Lords aren't a whiole lot better. Broken up into so many warbands, there is no common purpose because there is no common leader. While certain charactors have their stuff togehter, the Night Lords as a whole is actually less cohesive than the Black Legion.

About the first 5 Horus Heresy books I liked, mainly to read up on 40k history and get up to speed on 40k lore. The writing I'll admit is decidedly hit and miss. However my view is that you cannot expect Tolkien-eske writing from a universe populated by the genocidal equivalents of Buzz Lightyears, Space Elves and Space Orks with guns

Gaunt's Ghosts were a very good read, especially the first two story arcs. The characters were likeable, and Rawne/Feygor's booze run is classic. Dan also does Double Eagle, which I loved, even if I don't know squat about imperial flying machines.

Storm Of Iron was a good find, the Iron Warriors would have to be my favourite Traitor Legion along with the Alpha Legion and Emperor's Children and to find a book following them in the "current" 40k timeline was great

But having read Warrior Brood by Goto and everyone's favourite bashing book Descent of Angels (which wasn't terrible, just dreadfully slow) there are some shockers out there. Still, both still gave me some insight into Tyranids and origin of the Dark Angels and I quite liked the fact that the idea of the Legion is very similar to a popular fairy tale.

I loved "A Thousand Sons" honestly. Started slow but picked up and never felt silly like some of the other novels. 95% of the book wasn't about Space Marines fighting, fittingly for the Thousand Sons, but instead about the how and why of the Universe. The conversation between Tzeentch and Magnus when the full scale of everything being part of Tzeentch's plan finally hits Magnus was pretty masterfully done.

And Ahriman seemed so very human.

Also it's not just my bias, http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/a-thousand-sons-makes-new-york-times-best-seller-list/

First 40k novel to do so!

Clearly Games Workshop needs to take the hint and start working on Codex: Thousand Sons...

Nitros14 wrote:I loved "A Thousand Sons" honestly. Started slow but picked up and never felt silly like some of the other novels. 95% of the book wasn't about Space Marines fighting, fittingly for the Thousand Sons, but instead about the how and why of the Universe. The conversation between Tzeentch and Magnus when the full scale of everything being part of Tzeentch's plan finally hits Magnus was pretty masterfully done.

And Ahriman seemed so very human.

Also it's not just my bias, http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/a-thousand-sons-makes-new-york-times-best-seller-list/

First 40k novel to do so!

Clearly Games Workshop needs to take the hint and start working on Codex: Thousand Sons...

Just finished Thousand Sons and I also loved it...

Can't wait for Prospero Burns!

Grotzooka: I don't think I was clear.

I don't mean purpose and direction in the sense of military objectives.

I mean motives as it relates to character and plot. Abaddon and most of the other Chaos followers seem to have a motive of 'Kill people, break gak' for no other reason than 'because we're evil.'

The Night Lords, on the other hand, do most of the same things, but they actually have a motive behind their actions. Not only that, but a motive I can understand and empathize with.

I don't want to post a bunch of spoilers, but I would highly recommend reading Soul Hunter. Very good book. I was skeptical going in, but by the end I had found the only Chaos subgroup that I had any kind of feeling for whatsoever.

Jimsolo wrote:Grotzooka: I don't think I was clear.

I don't mean purpose and direction in the sense of military objectives.

I mean motives as it relates to character and plot. Abaddon and most of the other Chaos followers seem to have a motive of 'Kill people, break gak' for no other reason than 'because we're evil.'

The Night Lords, on the other hand, do most of the same things, but they actually have a motive behind their actions. Not only that, but a motive I can understand and empathize with.

I don't want to post a bunch of spoilers, but I would highly recommend reading Soul Hunter. Very good book. I was skeptical going in, but by the end I had found the only Chaos subgroup that I had any kind of feeling for whatsoever.

Ah, I see. In that case, you are right.
And, yes, Soul Hunter is amazing.

I do enjoy W40k novels. Although I steer clear of Imperial Guard ones (dabbled with Cain and was a bit meh) I like Space Marines and Chaos Marines.

However I do feel my collection will eventually go the way of my extensive Star Wars Extended Universe book collection....
Oxfam recycling.

For me,its anything by Dan Abnett,Sandy Mitchell topping my list of must reads.With Eisenhorn and Ciaphus Cain being particular faves.The HH stuff is,all in all very good and i am enjoying the whole lead up to the battle that all readers are waiting for.Fantasy wise,Gotrek,Malus Darkblade and the Blackhearts series are well recommended reads.

I wonder if they actually ever will do the Battle for the Emperor's palace? I don't think they will actually.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I wonder if they actually ever will do the Battle for the Emperor's palace? I don't think they will actually.

But they must! You can't end the Horus Heresy without talking about the end of the Horus Heresy.

Grotzooka wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I wonder if they actually ever will do the Battle for the Emperor's palace? I don't think they will actually.

But they must! You can't end the Horus Heresy without talking about the end of the Horus Heresy.

Its become tradition in 40K to never actually have the Emperor as a character. Everything about him is hearsay, stories and anecdotes. If they did it it would be a story from one guys point of view. Maybe the Pius guy or whoever that saved the emperor. 'Cept he died.

After reading a few posts and borrowing a few books, I have to agree that the IG novels are generally very good. I've read a few of Gaunt's Ghosts and I've recently finished Cadian Blood and they were great!

Space Marines novels still entertain me but to me, they don't seem over powered enough. I don't know how that works but they just don't.

I'm currently reading Heroes of the Space Marines. It's a collection of fairly good short stories by different authors. The first story (Something about a skull harvest) isn't all that great though. When reading it it feels like you are watching from a great distance instead of being in with the action. And what kind of name is Honsou?

They did do one story with the Emperor. The Last Church.


GalacticDefender you unfortunately have come to reading the first story of Heroes of the Space Marines without reading:
Storm of Iron
The Ultramarines Omnibus.

Read them, and then read Skull Harvest again.

Corennus wrote:GalacticDefender you unfortunately have come to reading the first story of Heroes of the Space Marines without reading:
Storm of Iron
The Ultramarines Omnibus.

Read them, and then read Skull Harvest again.

Also that one story in Planetkill. The somethingorother Effect.

GalacticDefender wrote:I'm currently reading Heroes of the Space Marines. It's a collection of fairly good short stories by different authors. The first story (Something about a skull harvest) isn't all that great though. When reading it it feels like you are watching from a great distance instead of being in with the action. And what kind of name is Honsou?

I think Honsou is the Egyptian god of vengeance....at least according to Moon Knight from marvel comics....

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:I'm currently reading Heroes of the Space Marines. It's a collection of fairly good short stories by different authors. The first story (Something about a skull harvest) isn't all that great though. When reading it it feels like you are watching from a great distance instead of being in with the action. And what kind of name is Honsou?

I think Honsou is the Egyptian god of vengeance....at least according to Moon Knight from marvel comics....

He's also the antagonist of the Ultramarines series.


I've been reading the Grey Knights book, the Ultramarines series and recently started Horyus H and they're all pretty neat.

I like Abnett's stuff and all of Aaron Demski-bowden's stuff so far.

The rest of the books are a bit hit and miss in my opinion.

Darkchild

I've been burning through the HH series and have arrived at a gap in my library. I don't own Battle for the Abyss, so I've skipped to Mechanicum in the mean time.

Is Battle worth picking up? I've heard mixed reviews.

Darkchild wrote:I like Abnett's stuff and all of Aaron Demski-bowden's stuff so far.

The rest of the books are a bit hit and miss in my opinion.

Darkchild

What's Aaron-Demski-bowden written?


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Extinction Angel wrote:I've been burning through the HH series and have arrived at a gap in my library. I don't own Battle for the Abyss, so I've skipped to Mechanicum in the mean time.

Is Battle worth picking up? I've heard mixed reviews.

Just started reading i so far. Kinda reminds me of a Star Trek movie so far. So I guess if you like that kinda action get it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Darkchild wrote:I like Abnett's stuff and all of Aaron Demski-bowden's stuff so far.

The rest of the books are a bit hit and miss in my opinion.

Darkchild

What's Aaron-Demski-bowden written?


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Extinction Angel wrote:I've been burning through the HH series and have arrived at a gap in my library. I don't own Battle for the Abyss, so I've skipped to Mechanicum in the mean time.

Is Battle worth picking up? I've heard mixed reviews.

Just started reading i so far. Kinda reminds me of a Star Trek movie so far. So I guess if you like that kinda action get it.

So far, Aaron has written Cadian Blood (stand-alone IG book) and Soul Hunter (new Night Lords series starter). He's good.
I liked Abyss but lots of other people don't. You should try it at least.

Cadian blood was a good read and I've been recently trying to get ahold of the Night Lords series. I strongly reccomend Cadian Blood.

I also finished Legion, the one about the Alpha Legion. It's less of the action things and more cerebral and deceit. It really helped me to understand the Alpha Legion more.

So far I've enjoyed the last two novels I've read (Sons of Dorn and Rynn's World) waiting for my copy of Helreach to arrive at the local store.

Can't wait... *drool*

A Thousand Sons was good, and Legion was good as far as the HH series goes.

I read the first Salamander novel, which was kind of average for me, which is unfortunate as I like the Salamanders.

Legion....ummmmmmmmmmmm

Not a fan. But YMMV.

You have to read Heroes of the Space Marines to truly understand Salamander. Without it it's like watching Star Wars without the opening text crawl....

Corennus wrote:
You have to read Heroes of the Space Marines to truly understand Salamander. Without it it's like watching Star Wars without the opening text crawl....

I had no intention of reading Salamander until I read this story. It wasn't necessarily well written, but the aspects of intrigue were there and it made me want to find out what happens.

Along those same lines, I didn't like a lot of the writing in Legion, but it was quite a good story and had some interesting tidbits. I could really care less about the Geno and the Alpha ninjas but the events that they were a part of made it worth the read, and some people will find the other parts interesting.

The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I agree completely. I'm a hugh Abnett fan but I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

Currently into the 3rd Cain book, and generally enjoying it.

But does he really have to go:

(Cain doesn't feel like doing A, luckily a chance to do B comes along)
"But if I'd known what horrors awaited me at B, I'd totally do A"

every

other

page.

It's really starting to annoy me.

Another book I read before was the Iron snakes. That was a pretty good book, but I'm puzzled as to who there primarch is.

Every single time I re-read one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, I want to start an IG army.

orchewer wrote:Every single time I re-read one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, I want to start an IG army.

Those books are one of the reasons that I finally did.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Another book I read before was the Iron snakes. That was a pretty good book, but I'm puzzled as to who there primarch is.

A lot of Legions don't even know their Primarch because they're created by the inquisition. However the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. So the Iron Snakes Primarch is most likely Guilliman.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

Grotzooka wrote:

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

The fists can't spit acid or hibernate? Where does it say that?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Grotzooka wrote:

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

The fists can't spit acid or hibernate? Where does it say that?

Lexicanum wrote:The Imperial Fists' geneseed has been somewhat corrupted over the millennia, so two traits have emerged. One is the loss of two of the special organs produced by Space Marines: the Betcher's Gland, which allows the Marine to produce poisonous/acidic spittle, and the Sus-an Membrane, which allows a Marine to enter a state of suspended animation.

And I've seen it somewhere else as well, but I cannot remember where.

Well that's lexicanum, it's just like wikipedia so the viability of that is slim... hrm... does any codex say something about that?

Oh and I heard of three new books from BL. Ok they're not super new, but Rynn's world, and a few others I can't remember, I'm wondering if they're any good and if I should shell out the extra cash to have them shipped, or just wait until I can't get them all in Canada.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Well that's lexicanum, it's just like wikipedia so the viability of that is slim... hrm... does any codex say something about that?
.

Yes, that was in their Index Astartes article.

This did then lead to some confusion when a/some Black templars were written as still having these implants, but this is egnerally taken to be, getting technical for a moment, a cock up.

I'd have to whip out a lot of Index Astartes but basically the fastest way to do it is go to the Ultramarine one which states they are the only one without defects. However, I remember one time reading another legions Index which contradicted that one. They also stated they had a pure geneseed but I really can't remember which Legion it was.


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SWs can also not spit acid and have another defect as well. I remember because they were proud of it. Claiming only pussies spit acid.

It depends on the author. Some of them kind of miss the mark whilst others just keep me gripping the pages wanting to find out what happens next. Long time Dan Abnett fan myself. Any of his stuff I highly rate. Really like his style. Also like Ian Watson's work.

I haven't really read any. I thumbed through a couple my friend had and the style didn't really appeal to me. I think about 2/3rds of the words were adjectives, it felt very clumsy.

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

Read Brothers of the Snake. One of BL best I'd say.

The second most used Gene Seed is surprisingly Blood Angels. Although all the organs work it has this unfortunate tendancey to make to you go INSANE WITH ANGER! However, in an uncharacteristic bout of scientific advancement the Mechanicum has found a way to correct that flaw. Nonetheless, put your self in the place of a Magos making a new SM chapter with a box full of Ultramarine Geneseed and a Box of BA DNA are you going to spend the next 5 years (or whatever) fixing the BA stuff or just whip out the good old blue stuff? Pretty sure you're going with the tried and true blue.
That being said I wouldn't be surprised to find out Iron Snakes are corrected Blood Angel stock. The BAs are pretty Greek and The Iron Snakes are pretty Spartan.

Grotzooka wrote:The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

Yeah, I do seem to remember reading that although it may have been Lexicanum. That being said I tend to trust Lexicanum.

Not trying to spark controversy, I just tend to get feisty when a "Ultramarines are the best cause" comment is made. I seem to remember that the DA geneseed is pure and I've never heard anything about the Scars.

As I usually read marine novels, the Brotherhood of the Snake is the next one I was looking forward to after finishing the HH series (on the last one!, for now...)

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yeah that would fall under the "I could care less..." part. I was particularly depressed by John Grammaticus. Does anyone think that's a good name for a character besides Abnett? I understand the hidden meaning, but I can't get over it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

I feel the same way. But I'm not a huge Abnett fan. He's hit or miss, and I find he misses more often than not. But when he hits...brilliant.

Extinction Angel wrote:

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yeah that would fall under the "I could care less..." part. I was particularly depressed by John Grammaticus. Does anyone think that's a good name for a character besides Abnett? I understand the hidden meaning, but I can't get over it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

I feel the same way. But I'm not a huge Abnett fan. He's hit or miss, and I find he misses more often than not. But when he hits...brilliant.

I guess I just really liked Legion. In fact, at the time, I thought it was the HH novel most likely to be considered a good novel by general audience/ non SF/WH40k readers. I need to read it again as it was, IMHO a tricky plot to follow and it was quite a while ago that I read it.

I agree that Abnett is incredible when he gets it right, but I like his stuff even when he's not hitting the A game. Graham McNeill has writing that is more consistent and pretty good, but when he's off it almost hurts.

I'm reading the Ravenor books right now, and they're really addicting. That is what Abnett is really good at; He generates that feeling of having to read the next page, chapter, or book in order to find out what happens. Ravenor plays the game where even if you're pretty sure whats going to happen ( as I was in the second book, though parts of the ending were a surprise), you want to keep reading to see if you were right. That sells books, and even if he didn't write good novels ( he does), that ability allows you to crap in a bag made of your own money, place it on the porch of a offending critic, light it on fire, and wait for said critic to stamp it out, staining the critic's foot with material partially generated by using a fiber supplement made from ground up 100$ bills. I did not care for the ending of the first one because I couldn't figure out why the bad guys needed to keep everyone alive during the final sequence, instead of killing everyone immediately instead of the first officer of the ship ( whom they needed). Maybe I need to read it again because I missed something.

Its odd reading Ravenor because you're stuck between being entertained on how the main characters are going to get out of the next sticky place, and saying to yourself " Oh, come on". It was probably tricky to write because Ravenor needs to be powerful and cool, but it has to be in a way that his powers can't do *everything*. Most of the time, Dan pulls it off. A few times though, he doesn't, and Ravenor seems like an extra killy Jesus or the bastard son of the God-Emperor. Some of the "Oh come on" moments are at least entertaining though. One of them involves the telekinetic henchwoman killing someone with her necklace....ok....but cool. Another involves the acrobat throwing a gun to the bounty hunter which allows him to kill one of the boss bad guys right before he kills a party member.....ok....but it was kind of cool. The psychic blank character getting up at the last moment after being shot in the chest twice to strangle the main evil psyker guy.....Sorry Dan, fail. Ravenor is my favorite Abnett character so far though, which is pretty good for a guy with no face or ability to put emotion in his voice.

I think all the 40k novels have to have a balance between being a good story and less talk, more kill. IMHO, William King consistently is weaker on the former, and occasionally, Dan Abnett fails on the latter. Sometimes, I just need a good disembowelment, or a scene with an exploding head. I think Graham McNeill is usually really good at that, especially in Killing Ground.

I think another think i don't like about Eisenhorn and Ravenor (although Ravenor mixes it up a bit) is that they're in 1st person. 1st person can really limit what you can do in your stories. Also there's only so many ways you can say "I".

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think another think i don't like about Eisenhorn and Ravenor (although Ravenor mixes it up a bit) is that they're in 1st person. 1st person can really limit what you can do in your stories. Also there's only so many ways you can say "I".

Wow, I didn't think about the point of view in the novels. Most of the BL novel's I've read are in limited Omniscient or Omniscient. I think a first person view would fit best in a short story, but I haven't read many BL short stories.

I think 1st person is a fine way to tell a story, you just get different books. It's more about personal adventures and small tragedies than the big movements of intergalactic conquest. Both can be fun, both can be bad.

Cain does a pretty decent job with it (although I must agree with KamikazeCanuck that when reading 3 Cain books in a row, the repeating of the same sentences over and over can get to you)

I enjoy most Black Library books, but there are some that are a bit overrated. Like the Dawn of War books.....C.S Gotto is evil and needs to be exterminated by the Ordo Herectus!

WH40KGuy757 wrote:C.S Gotto is evil and needs to be exterminated by the Ordo Herectus!

EDIT : I lol'd at that. I had written this, but for some reason Dakka decided it should remain unwritten

C.S. Goto was unfortunate in that Dawn Of War he had strict guidelines about how it would pan out (had to tie into the game)

Give me his Dawn of War book any day over the travesty that was Dawn Of War II novelisation.

the bloody thing ended halfway through the game!

Corennus wrote:C.S. Goto was unfortunate in that Dawn Of War he had strict guidelines about how it would pan out (had to tie into the game)

Give me his Dawn of War book any day over the travesty that was Dawn Of War II novelisation.

the bloody thing ended halfway through the game!

He wrote one about the Eldar that I just couldn't get in to. Haven't read the Dawn of War novel.

Eldar Prophecy...*shudders*, that was pretty bad. That said if as many people who joke about his writing had actually read them he'd be a wealthy man and BL would only have him writing.

Anyone else read "Path of the Warrior" yet then ? Some wicked Eldar fluff in that.

I haven't read the second DOW one yet, however I wish not to...ever. If it's anything like the first Dawn of War, then forget it.

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the first DoW? Apart from Gabriel being a Psyker it's not too bad......

TiB wrote:I think 1st person is a fine way to tell a story, you just get different books. It's more about personal adventures and small tragedies than the big movements of intergalactic conquest. Both can be fun, both can be bad.

Cain does a pretty decent job with it (although I must agree with KamikazeCanuck that when reading 3 Cain books in a row, the repeating of the same sentences over and over can get to you)

I didn't realize Cain's books were 1st person too. I guess that makes sense as it's supposed to be his Memoirs.

For sure!

Shas'O Dorian: I love the Gaunts Ghosts series. I feel that the author (Dan Abnett) does a good job of making the protagonist (IG) seem a little better than in game without making them super-powerful who always win. There are fights between the ranks, casualties are frequent and to quote one of the characters there's almost always something going "awry".

I agree, Gaunt's Ghosts are a great set of books. Just started Horus Rising, OK but not as good as Gaunts Ghosts

short answer - yes many of them

My favourites are the Cain novels by Sandy Mitchel - great works, good characters and a unusually effective take on the 40K universe.
Whilst they are inspired partly by the Flashman novels - I far prefer them (and the main character) to the original. Personally i really enjoyed his Dark heresy novels as well - interesting that he is one of the few that deals with people in 40k having sex and relationships (!). I met him recently at a Games convention and had a chat which was cool - hope he gets to write a Horus Heresy Novel as it would be intersting to see his take.

next is Mr Abnet - love much of his works - especially Eisenhorn and Guants Ghosts - really enjoyed Legion and Titanicus too - His novels rank up with the great Michael Stackpole and Victor Milan novels for BattleTech

For me nearly as enjoyable was Lord of Night and Fire Warrior by Simon Spurrier

Mechanicum was great but some of the others seem too much by the numbers - quite enjoy the Space Wolf books

Did not enjoy the Soul Drinkers trilogy or Descent of Angels - must stick it on E-bay.............. The James Swallow Blood Angels books were .....ok a

Does anyone know what book starts the Night Lords series?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Does anyone know what book starts the Night Lords series?

Soul Hunter.

I love the Warhammer 40k Novels anything by Dan Abnett is a good read and personally I think the HH Novels are amazing and interesting kinda like Star Wars Episode I-III only with much better writing than Lucas. As for my favorite series it has to be the Eisenhorne series he's so awsome and anyone who has read those books will be pleasantly surprised.

Dan Abnett is the metaphorical big fish in a small pond... the one-eyed man in the land of the blind... ehh, what I'm trying to say is that he's a mediocre writer at best (and rather inconsistent in quality - Eisenhorn and Ravenor were half-decent, Sharpe's Lasrifles Gaunt's Ghosts is very overrated, although at least better than his real dreck like Titanicus and Brotherhood of the Snake). I feel his work is consistently overrated by fans who are starved for fiction in the Warhammer 40k setting that isn't so bad it makes you want to claw your eyes out. After reading a few of the offerings from other GW licensed authors (and recovering from the resulting brain damage), I can understand why people would react that way to Abnett's work, but really folks. Try reading some things that don't have the Black Library logo on it. There are tons of other authors out there who are more deserving of your money.

I'll admit that I do like Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain books, though. It's a guilty pleasure, since I can't help but be aware the series is essentially Flashman with Blackadder's Baldrick tagging along IN SPACE. But worse, because Mitchell apparently decided it was too hard to write a character that's totally unlikable the way Flashy is and still have him be sympathetic, so he took the lazy way out and made him just sorta a bastard but not really. And as others have mentioned, he has more than a few stock phrases that he uses over and over and over and over and over, which is somewhat grating. Still, in spite of all the (many!) flaws, it's a lighthearted and fun (and therefore totally unique among Black Library fiction) take on the setting, and for that I'm willing to forgive them. Mostly.

[As an aside, I find it very entertaining that the two most popular Warhammer 40k fiction characters are a Sharpe expy and a Flashman expy. In the grim darkness of nineteenth-century England there is only war, apparently.]

Genosaurer wrote:Dan Abnett is the metaphorical big fish in a small pond... the one-eyed man in the land of the blind... ehh, what I'm trying to say is that he's a mediocre writer at best (and rather inconsistent in quality - Eisenhorn and Ravenor were half-decent, Sharpe's Lasrifles Gaunt's Ghosts is very overrated, although at least better than his real dreck like Titanicus and Brotherhood of the Snake). I feel his work is consistently overrated by fans who are starved for fiction in the Warhammer 40k setting that isn't so bad it makes you want to claw your eyes out. After reading a few of the offerings from other GW licensed authors (and recovering from the resulting brain damage), I can understand why people would react that way to Abnett's work, but really folks. Try reading some things that don't have the Black Library logo on it. There are tons of other authors out there who are more deserving of your money.

I'll admit that I do like Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain books, though. It's a guilty pleasure, since I can't help but be aware the series is essentially Flashman with Blackadder's Baldrick tagging along IN SPACE. But worse, because Mitchell apparently decided it was too hard to write a character that's totally unlikable the way Flashy is and still have him be sympathetic, so he took the lazy way out and made him just sorta a bastard but not really. And as others have mentioned, he has more than a few stock phrases that he uses over and over and over and over and over, which is somewhat grating. Still, in spite of all the (many!) flaws, it's a lighthearted and fun (and therefore totally unique among Black Library fiction) take on the setting, and for that I'm willing to forgive them. Mostly.

[As an aside, I find it very entertaining that the two most popular Warhammer 40k fiction characters are a Sharpe expy and a Flashman expy. In the grim darkness of nineteenth-century England there is only war, apparently.]

Your comment seems vaguely familiar to a series of comments made by a person before. The BL books aren't great literary works, they're just here to expand the 40k universe. It's not like many people just read BL books and nothing else.

It's more for content.

I can agree with the above Abnett comment, he is an average writer who has a couple of great books. It does seem though, that BL is starting to attract some better writers. Aaron Dembski-Bowden is off to a good start, the Night Lords novel was very well written. It's just too bad that Bill King doesn't write for 40k anymore. As formulaic as the first SW books were, what happened to them after he left was a travesty.