Ok. Since Alpharius suggested that we start up a new thread, I figured I'd take the initiative (especially since I've got a question anyway).
When I get home for spring break, my friend and I are going to try our first "real" game of Infinity. This will be the first game we play with a main intention other than learning the ruleset, and I'd like it to be a good (and, most of all, fair) one. He'll be running Haqqislam, but I don't know his list. Tell me what you think of this:
I know I'm light on heavy weapons, but Haqqislam aren't really renowned for their HI or TAGs, so I'm not too concerned. Should I be? How does the list look?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I found this "Roster Creator" a while back. I'm not sure if you all have seen it yet.
Paladin Blake wrote:When I get home for spring break, my friend and I are going to try our first "real" game of Infinity. This will be the first game we play with a main intention other than learning the ruleset, and I'd like it to be a good (and, most of all, fair) one. He'll be running Haqqislam, but I don't know his list. Tell me what you think of this:
Overall a decent first list. Tiger Soldiers and their "AD: Combat Drop" makes them formidable against just about any unit, because it is nearly impossible to hide from them. Unlike 40K, Tiger Soldiers can drop in anywhere on the table and activate immediately! Personally, I think they are awesome, but for some odd reason, I seem to have terrible luck with them. They are fairly fragile, and my flamers never seem to work with them. In one game alone, I managed to force 5 armor saves with one Tiger Soldier, and my opponent made all his saved and his ARO took out my Tiger Soldier even though I spent 3-4 orders shooting with him. This goes back to the dice thing I mentioned in one of my previous posts.
Another limitation of running so many Tiger Soldiers is if you plan to "AD:Combat Drop" them in then they will not start on the table... Which will lead to my first "lesson" on this thread:
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ORDERS:
At the beginning of your turn, count the number of "Regular" units you have on the board, and each model on the board will contribute a single order to the squad's order pool. Maximum squad size is 10 units. Hence it is impossible to have more than 10 order per squad.
Each order consists of either two "short orders" or one "long" order. There are two types of "short orders". They are:
1. Short-Movement
2. Short-Action
A single order can contain a combination of the following: One short-move and one short action, two short-moves, or one long-order. (I will explain the short and long options in a future post)
***
Back to my original point. Noticed that I said "count the number of "Regular" units you have on the board" Which means that any models that are off the table will not contribute to your order pool. Based on your list, at the start of your game, you can only have a maximum of 6 orders for your entire army. Even though you paid for 10 models.
I would imagine that you will probably have Ko Dali as your lientenant because of her Tactical Jump ability, which means that you must drop her in on the first turn. Don't get me wrong, she is very powerful, but it is generally bad juju to broadcast who your Lieutenant is to your opponent, because any decent player will immediately go after her ... If she is "KO'ed", then we have bad news, because now you have a (lesson):
***
LOSS OF LIEUTENANT:
If you do not have a Lieutenant on the board, you may immediate spend two orders to promote another model to the Lieutenant status. The additional bad news is that if you start your turn without a Lieutenant, then the maximum orders you can have for your entire army is 2. That's right, if you start the game with 10 models, and your Lieutenant is accidentally taken down first, then at the start of your turn first turn, you will only have TWO (2) orders for your entire army... If you spend the 2 orders to promote another model to a Lieutenant, you have effectively lost a turn...
***
Needless to say, that is very, very bad news. Airborne Deployment (AD) is very powerful, but you really need to defend it with a hacker. A successful AD hack will force all your AD troops to perform an emergency jump and force them to deploy immediately with a PH penalty of -9!!! (I will go into depths about "Hacking" at future date.)
I hope this brief list critique gives you guys some insights on how "tactically" rich Infinity is compared to a lot of other games. Variety is far more effective then specialization. I do like the Tiger Soldier with the HMG though... That's one brutal combination!
I'll add an 'agrees' to what Salisar said and also add some cautionary stuff...
Less Orders
With the Tiger Soldiers not having their orders contributed to the pool right away, taking three orders from your pool (and also probably requiring you to spend some more orders getting them back in position if you scatter by blowing your Physique test) you may find yourself somewhat immobile during the first turn or so.
I like AD troops, but I usually limit myself to two.
Doctors and Medics
Taking the Tiger Para is also potentially asking for your doctor to get smashed by ARO's during deployment if he scatters. His physique isn't that high dude... if he blows out into the open you may find him pumped full of holes.
I'd recommend the Zhanshi Yisheng as a full Doctor for your list. You'll usually know where you're going to take tons of fire so just put him with your main line of offense. Remember if your doctor goes down all unconscious models skip right to dead!
Celestial Guard?
Why are you taking him if you're not taking any Kuang Shi?
Heavy Infantry
You've got a ton of options here... and they're some of the best in the game! The Hsien and Shang Ji are both great for their points. Getting a MultiSpectral Visor into your list is going to be a big asset if you run into TO and CH troops. Also, getting a multi-rifle in there or a grenade launcher can also be handy for the parabolic fire or some AP or DA rounds.
Finally; check out this free online army-builder called Infinity Pool. It has a Forum option for posting lists.
The Celestial Guard is there for his Light Smoke Grenade Launcher. I like the tactical flexibility that smoke offers, and it's only .5 SWC more than a regular Celestial Guard.
Alright. New list. I don't know how to work in a MULTI rifle without going over in points, but it's definitely more diverse. If I really need to make changes, I guess I'd rather drop the Hsien or Celestial Guard hacker first.
Is having redundancy with the Paramedic/Yisheng a bad thing? I figure if one gets shot, I'll still have a chance to keep some people alive, but is keeping the Paramedic a waste of points? Cutting down the number of Tiger Soldiers, I agree, is a good idea. I think I had too much of a "all my eggs in one basket" sorta thing going on.
Or you could take two Chain Rife-toting Monks with Smoke Grenades for 5pts each. Grenades are almost more accurate than GL's (though they don't have the range) as they use PH instead of BS for rolls to hit... and as Yu Jing you have kinda crap BS. PLus you get Chain Rifles that can be very handy for clearing mines, etc.
Honestly man; don't wait for folks to get in. Just get a second starter and SHOE people the game. Honestly, it's the only thig that worked for me. The other half is to play missions and have an appropriate amount of scenery. Otherwise folks will get turned off the mechanics.
Alrighty, then. I've got a final(ish) list. Thanks for the suggestions; I usually try to avoid impetuous models, but 3 smoke grenades is better than one smoke launcher...
Suppression Fire is a long skill, so it needs to consume a whole order.
Place the 'Suppression Fire' marker anywhere in LOS of the model performing the order, with the line in the middile being able to be drawn to some part of the acting model's base.
Any enemy models that generate an ARO while in the LOS 'corridor' created by the marker (as wide as the template) will be able to be fired upon at full Burst. That means HMG's performing this action would get to roll 4 dice in ARO instead of just 1... combi-rifles would get 3, etc.
This is lost if the model performs any action besides Shooting in ARO (dodge, move, etc.).
Its a great way to shut down corridors of advance during your opponent's turn... as unless you're a TAG or some other high armour model you're not going to want to take the chance to move through that much shooting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should note that if you perform this skill in LOS of an enemy model they'll get to ARO you with a normal roll.
Example: My fusilier performs this skill in LOS of a Zhanshi. The Zhanshi shoots him with a normal roll, which hits and causes a Damage roll which the Fusilier passes. Now if that fusilier passes his Guts check... he'll retain his Suppression Fire token. If he fails it though and makes a dodge towards cover or goes prone... he'll lose the counter as he's performing an action besides Shooting.
Yup. It basically gives the acting model a limited version of the Total Reaction skill (which is the same effect, full Burst in ARO) that only effects the 'corridor' created by the template.
So 'Suppression Fire' is an "order" given to a model on your side in your turn, but is only 'used' during an ARO during the enemy's turn?
I always like "real life" examples, because it is easier to relate to...
You decide to leave a rear guard to watch the back of your squad, so he hides behind some ruins and sets up Suppression Fire to cover a narrow alley. The Suppression Fire Zone extends indefinitely, until it hits a table edge or a terrain/cover. The rear guard brings up his rifle and provides suppression fire for the rest of his squad. Since the bullets are already flying down the suppression fire zone, any (friend or foe) model crossing the suppressed zone can be hit.
Please note that Suppression Fire only triggers against models, and not against markers (e.g. camouflage markers or TO Camo markers) are NOT affected by Suppression fire. You can't hit what you can't see. All (range, equipment, etc.) modifiers are still applied, based on where the model crosses the suppression line of zone.
So your own model, all on its own, enters the 'suppression zone' and will then be automatically shot at?
Or, if you've foolishly (?) left your own models in the 'suppression zone' and an enemy model causes an ARO by the friendly model with a 'suppression zone', THEN your model could get shot?
No, because your model is acting in your turn and does not generate an ARO. Suppression fire is only triggered when an enemy model spends an order in LOS and let's you ARO. Suppression also requires you to be in the corridor of the counter.
Achilles wrote:No, because your model is acting in your turn and does not generate an ARO. Suppression fire is only triggered when an enemy model spends an order in LOS and let's you ARO. Suppression also requires you to be in the corridor of the counter.
Slightly wrong
Infinity Rule book, pg 144 wrote: Suppression Fire (SF) allows firing the complete Burst (B) of a weapon in ARO. Any miniature, allied or enemy, in LoF, that touches a SF corridor will receive (if the SF figure succeeds at its BS rolls) all the shots indicated by the B of its weapon, in reactive firing. The complete B of the weapon will be fired at each and every miniature activated in LoF by Order inside a SF corridor; and at any miniature that enters a SF corridor in LoF with a Normal Move, Dodge, Coodinated Order, Cautious Movement or any Short Movement skill.
If you tell someone to lay cover fire, then run in front of them, you deserve to be shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: SF is literally aiming in a direction, and firing relatively constantly. It is indiscriminate and will hit whoever cross it. It also bypassing coordinated orders as "The complete B of the weapon will be fired at each and every miniature activated in LoF by Order inside a SF corridor" is very clear.
Alpharius wrote:Pretty brutal, but still, should be somewhat easy to NOT shoot your own side...
I think!
Heheh, you should play some first person shooter games on your PC or game console. It's surprising how often your teammates will run into your line of fire. It's a good thing that friendly fire is off... Most of the time...
Don't read too much into the realism, it's mostly for game balance. Otherwise people would just setup 7 fire lanes across the entire table while their units dance through friendly lines of fire indiscriminately.
Besides, that's probably why they called "Suppression Fire" instead of over-watch. As Deminyn said, Suppression Fire means they are firing nearly consistently. Basically, they are firing just enough to make sure that their enemies keep their heads down.
You really want to run through friendly Suppression Fire? No problem, just make sure the figure is hidden behind camo or TO camo!
As it only lasts for 1 turn, it doesn't take much to avoid it. Just order the guy to cross the street then give the SF order, not the other way around. And then it expires next turn and you can cross the street, then do SF again
MOVEMENT:
As described in my previous posts, each order consists of two “short-orders” or a single “long-order”. “Short-order” combinations can include:
1. Two “short-move” orders (e.g. Move-Move = 1 full order)
2. One “short-move” and one “short-action” (e.g. Move-Shoot = 1 full order)
3. One “long-action” (Suppression Fire = 1 full)
Today, I am going to go into the “types” of short-move orders.
Move:
The first time you move your model, you can move your model the distance in inches of the first movement stat of the model. If you follow up a second move, then the model may only move up to the second number of their movement stat.
(Basic Example – Move-Move Order): On the Yu Jing (YJ) players turn, he decides to activate his motorcycle, the Aragoto Senkenbutai, which has a MOV value of 8-6. YJ player’s notices that there are no models within his bike’s line of fire, so he declares his first short order: move. He shuffles the motorcycle up a whooping 8 inches! Still no enemy units within his line of fire, so his issues the second short-move order. Now the YJ player moves up to the second MOV value, so the bike blazes an additional 6 inches! The motorcycle moved an enormous 14” in on a single order.
Climb:
Unlike other miniature games, all walls in Infinity are “climbable”. If you want to climb a wall, you simply have to make a single physical (PH) check, and you can move vertically equal to your first MOV value of the climbing model. If the model is on the ground when they make their PH check, then the model simply fails to climb. However, if the model is half way up a tall 8” wall, failing the PH check would mean that the model falls to the ground! (Will cover falling damage in a future post) Please note that a climbing model cannot do anything as they hang off a wall. The only exception to this rule is if a model has the “climbing plus” special rule. Then the model can hang on any surface and fire his weapon like SpiderMan.
(Basic Example – Move-Climb Order): The Line Kazak (LK) looks up and sees an open ledge where he can setup a firing position. Ariadna player declares a first short-move, move order as the Line Kazak moves up against the wall, and follows up with a climb short-move order. The Line Kazak now makes a PH11 check and rolls 1d20. He rolls a 7, as the Line Kazak easily climbs onto the short-ledge.
(Complex Example – Climb-Climb Order): The Line Kazak sees a tall 8 inch wall and decides to climb it. The owner issues the first climb order, rolls 1d20 resulting in a 7. The LK moves 4” up the wall and decides to finish the climb with another short-move: climb order. A loose brick comes off in the LK’s hands as he plunges onto the ground. Now he must make an armor save to see if he survived the fall.
Mount/Dismount:
Getting on and off a vehicle such as a motorcycle or TAG with “braces”. No rolls are necessary, simply issue the order and the unit will get on or off his vehicle.
Jump:
Jump is a short skill that allows performance of a horizontal MOV to avoid a hole or a vertical jump to clear an obstacle. The maximum distance of the jump is half the model’s MOV value. A PH Roll with no Modifiers must be successfully made to complete the jump. There is an ability called “Super Jump” which I will cover at a later date.
(Basic Example – Move Jump): Running across the buildings, the Line Kazak sees another rooftop only inches away, so the LK declares a short-move move order to get the edge of the building, then declares a jump, rolls 1d20 for his PH check. He scores a 1 easily clears the short but long verticle gap.
Prone/Get Up:
Go prone is when a model lines down on his stomach in an attempt to hide from enemy fire. Line of fire can only be drawn to a model’s base when it is prone. If a model goes prone on an elevated position, then it is assumed to be in cover. Short-move “Get Up” order is given to models to get out of the prone position, sorry, no climbing around on your hands and knees in this game.
Open/Close:
Doors, containers, etc. No skill checks needed
Discover:
Probably the strangest of the “short-move” orders; discover is when a model attempts to locate a hidden/stealth/camouflaged model. The model makes a basic WIP check and apply the appropirate range modifiers.
(Complex Example – Move-Discover): The Line Kazak cautious approaches the corner, and he seems to notice something in the ruins. He quickly focuses his eyes and stares intently at the camouflaged oddity 10” away. He makes a WIP check.
WIP13 + 0 (no range modifers) – 3 (penalty to discover models with camouflage) = 10
The Ariadna rolls 1d20 and scores a 13 as he fails to see anything. Having failed a detect, the same LK cannot attempt another detect roll against the same marker for the remainder of the turn. However if you have another LK in the area, you are welcome to move him up in order try to detect the marker again.
I'm traveling in Europe on business and forgot my rulebook, so no questions from me for a while, but I do appreciate the 'walk-throughs' and clarifications!
We've been testing the rules a bit here ("playing" would be too strong a word at that point), and there's one question that came up, that we haven't figured yet.
How do resolve opposed multiple actions ?
Say a combi-rifle (3 shots), triggering a reaction shot (single shot). Does the target succeed if the dice rolls better than all the shooter's dices (which is harsh) ? Something else ?
We argued over this in our game b/c I remembered something, but couldn't find it while playing.
Only one player will get hit, and they will get hit by the number of passes that exceed their role.
The best example of this is found under the Total Reaction skill.
So let's say A is shooting 3 times at BS 11, B is 1 time at BS 12
HudsonD wrote:We've been testing the rules a bit here ("playing" would be too strong a word at that point), and there's one question that came up, that we haven't figured yet.
How do resolve opposed multiple actions ?
Say a combi-rifle (3 shots), triggering a reaction shot (single shot). Does the target succeed if the dice rolls better than all the shooter's dices (which is harsh) ? Something else ?
Yep, ARO's are response is harsh, as you must beat all the opposing rolls for it to take effect. However, results that are below the ARO rolls are ignored. The game mechanic definitely gives the active player (the one with 3 shots) the advantage. Which is why I tend to chuckle when new players sometimes say that "ARO's are over the top".
Deminyn's examples are accurate. Basically the way you think about it is that the effect of the highest success rolled is always applied. Then you apply all subsequent success up to your opponent's success roll.
Confused yet? Let's break down Deminy's example. Player A's rolls will be a number, and player B's rolls will be in ().
1, (6), 7, 12
Let's take a look at the numbers... With BS11...
12 = fail
7 = success
(6) = success
1 = success
12 is a failed skill check hence it is discarded. The highest success (7) is always applied. The 1 roll is technically a success, but it failed to beat opposing 6, hence the "1" success is negated by the enemy's higher success roll.
Here is a "real life" example, A opens fire on B and manages to clip him with the first round. However B managed to get a shot off and caused A to recoil, and his subsequent shots missed.
Here is the next lesson installment: Armor Saves/Rolls
ARMOR ROLLS:
After being struck by enemy fire, there is a chance that the target model's armor managed to stop/deflect the bullet from doing any serious damage. Successful armor saves are D20 rolls that EXCEEDS (not equal) the "Damage" attribute of the enemy weapon.
***
Simple Example: Armor Save - Line Kazak out in the open was struck once by an enemy's combi-rifle burst (3-shots, only one hit). Combi-Rifle has a Damage value of 13, so the line Kazak must now make armor 13 save. Line Kazaks has a base armor (ARM) value of 1, so...
In order to survive the shot, the Line Kazak must EXCEED to Damage of the shot, so he must roll 13+ on a D20 to make the save. Here is the magic formula for armor saves.
"Success" Armor Save = D20 + Model's ARM + Cover ARM bonus (if any) > Weapon Damage
"Failed" Armor Save = D20 + Model's ARM + Cover ARM Bonus (if any) < or = Weapon damage
Line Kazak has ARM1 so, if he he manages to get a 13 on his armor roll, then:
D20(13) + ARM1 = 14 (14 is greater than weapon damage of 13, so the Line Kazak lives through the shot)
If he rolled a 12 on his Armor Roll, then:
12 + 1 = 13 (13 is equal to 13 and not "greater than", so he fails the armor roll, takes a wound, and falls unconscious)
Complex Example: Armor Save - Let's add some cover and mix in a more powerful gun and see what happens... Line Kazak hiding in ruins was unfortunately enough to be struck twice by an enemy's heavy machinegun (HMG) burst (4-shots). HMG has a Damage value of 15, so the line Kazak must now make TWO armor 15 saves, because he was hit twice by the HMG. Let's take a look at the modifiers...
Modifiers: Since the Line Kazak was hiding in the ruins, he has cover, so he gets an armor bonus of +3. With his base ARM value of +1 gives him a total armor bonus of +4. Here is math:
D20(13) + ARM1 + Cover3 = 16 (The Line Kazak survives the hit, and any rolls less than 13 would result in a failed armor save and taking a wound).
***
Although it is difficult to highlight in this example, because the HMG is a significantly more powerful gun than the combi-rifle, but having cover is quite a benefit, as it makes you 15% harder to hit (-3 BS penalty to shoot at someone in cover) and an additional 15% chance for the model to survive hits (+3 ARM bonus for cover). The same Line Kazak in cover against a combi-rifle can make the ARM save on a 10+ instead of 13+, which is fairly significant.
Next up, do the different ammo options for all the Multi weapons, and highlight the fact that someone can take a full 5 HMC shots in the face, fail all 5 arm saves, and still be on the table
Deminyn wrote:Next up, do the different ammo options for all the Multi weapons, and highlight the fact that someone can take a full 5 HMC shots in the face, fail all 5 arm saves, and still be on the table
Deminyn wrote:Next up, do the different ammo options for all the Multi weapons, and highlight the fact that someone can take a full 5 HMC shots in the face, fail all 5 arm saves, and still be on the table
Sure, I go into Multi weapons next, but I don't know any units that can survive a full barrage from Hyper-Magnetic Cannon.
We had this argument as I had read something somewhere and knew that you can't die from 1 attack, no matter how many bursts. My opponent was using a DA round (multi sniper) and was insta-killing everyone (2 wounds) but I was positive they are just unconscious, not dead. I had to look it up later and found this.
P 148 wrote:When a mini receives as many Wounds as the value of his Wounds Attribute, he falls on the ground Unconcious at the end of the Order, but never before the Burst (B ) is finished: therefore the number of Wounds can exceed his Wounds Attribute.
+
P 149 wrote:If a figure in the Unconscious state receives a new Wound, he dies and will be removed from the battlefield.
so DA doesn't not auto kill anyone! you need to shoot 2 seperate times before he dies
and therefore the HMC opens up, hits 5 times, wounds 5 times, then the poor sod falls unconscious. If you shoot him again, he dies.
And so our poor sap is unconscious, it will only take 1 doctor roll to bring him up to 1 wound too. (163)
This is one of those areas where the rulebook gets a little sketchy... You do have to cut the English rules a little slack as it is translated to from EU Spanish to English.
The key phrase in the rule is:
P 148 wrote:he falls on the ground unconcious.
Although the model does not physically move during the burst, when it is reduced to 0 wounds, it enters the "unconscious" state even though the model does not physically "fall down" at this point. If the model looses any additional wounds while unconscious even if it is from the same burst or DA or T2 ammo, the model passes to the dead state. Obviously there are certain special weapon types, that bypass this ambiguity such as: shock, monofilament, viral, etc. I will go more detail on special weapon/ammo types in my next rules post.
1) the key phrase is "at the end of the Order, but never before the Burst (B ) is finished:" which is all from the rule book. The model isn't unconcious until after the burst is done. I would think him dead now except for the line that says,"If a figure in the Unconscious state receives a new Wound, he dies and will be removed from the battlefield." btw, this is the only way to kill someone according to the rules. They have to be unconcious, then take a new wound, to die. When they define when you become Unconcious, they say you don't "fall on the ground unconscoius" until "the end of the Order." So even if you shoot, then move, they aren't unconscious until after the whole Order is complete.
2) You can read battle reports done by Corvus Belli workers where they play it this way on their forum.
I honestly don't see any ambiguity in their sentence, as they even point out you can go below your wounds in wounds. If you play like "even if it is from the same burst" to me that clearly is breaking the "but never before the Burst (B ) is finished" & the "he falls on the ground Unconcious at the end of the Order" part.
(On the translation note, they are pretty good overall. I think saying that they are unconscious standing up but don't fall down until after is nit picking on their choice of words. That argument sits on the choice of saying 'falls on the ground unconcious" instead of saying "becomes unconcious" which to me was an example of a good translation of an English colloquilism. If they were writing in lawyer solid style, "becomes unconscious" would've been better but as since is the place in the book where they define unconcious, I would apply this sentence to "when do I become unconcious" not "when do I go prone from unconsciousness".)
Deminyn wrote:I honestly don't see any ambiguity in their sentence, as they even point out you can go below your wounds in wounds. If you play like "even if it is from the same burst" to me that clearly is breaking the "but never before the Burst (B) is finished" & the "he falls on the ground Unconcious at the end of the Order" part.
Sounds like you already have access to the Infinity forums, and I posted your exact question onto their forum. "Interruptor" who is a member of CB may have already clarified this game mechanic in a previous post. If you found another example on their forum where this rule is contradicted, I would highly encourage you to post it onto their forum.
Apparently I broke Poko as he just gave up and decided to wait for an admin... In the meantime, I'd like to hear another person's break down of the multi stuff as our group came to conclusion that our first game we played it wrong. I'd like to see another interpretation to make sure we aren't getting it wrong.
edit: Interruptor (an admin) did not rule on this, the closest thing I saw him rule on was doctor + servant's combined healing.
I actually asked this same question last year during TTGN Battle Challenge #1... it was ruled that you do NOT discount wounds from the same burst by dropping into Unconscious.
For example, if you have Valour; No Wound incapacitation you are actually incapable of dropping into Unconsciousness and if you take more than your Wounds stat in damage then you just simply die.
So for example; a fusilier has one wound. He is forced to make three damage rolls; failing two.
The first wound causes him to fall unconscious, the second one kills him.
OR
A Veteran Kazak is forced to make three Damage rolls, failing two. As he is incapable of falling unconscious because of his V:NWI ability he will instead take both wounds (even though his W Stat is only 1) and die.
It has to work this way, otherwise skills like V:NWI, Regeneration and Seed simply do not work.
Besides; being in several pieces or full of numerous holes will make it impossible to patch you up.
Translated rulebooks are often a pain; you just gotta apply some common sense and ask 'if we played it this way... would it make a bunch of other rules not work?'
BTW: Is your opponent using DA Ammo at full burst??? Most DA equipped weapons are only burst 1 actively... making them very useful in ARO (where your burst is always 1) but not very effective during the active turn.
Are you the achilles from the really awesome Achilles vs Axhead reports? 'Cause that's part of where I got this idea. In P1 G1, you even said
In retrospect we made a number of mistakes that would have drastically changed the game. I assumed being overkilled by multiple wounds would push my models past Unconscious and directly to Death... which is not the case! My Aquila and several other models would have remained on the table long enough for my Trauma Doc to get there.
So after this you guys changed back?
(Regeneration still works, so does seed, they came up in the Infinity forum with no conflicts, I can look into V: NWI after work.)
Achilles wrote:The first wound causes him to fall unconscious, the second one kills him.
Pretty much what Achilles said, otherwise abilities like V: Dogged would be completely broken...
Hypothetical (Bad/Exaggerated) example: Let's see... My V: Dogged Ariadna Highlander with a chain rifle runs into your army take 10 ARO's and is reduced to -10 Wounds. The Dogged special rule prevents him from falling unconscious; if I continue to pump consecutive orders into him. If he can't fall unconscious, and can not be killed, so he's basically invulnerable until the end of my turn?
That'd be uber, but also completely breaks the game.
In summary, if a model is reduced to -1 (99% of all units) or -2 (TAGs with G:Remote Presence only) wounds, then it cannot be resuscitated, hence removed from the table.
Salisar wrote:
In summary, if a model is reduced to -1 (99% of all units) or -2 (TAGs with G:Remote Presence only) wounds, then it cannot be resuscitated, hence removed from the table.
The -2 for TAGs thing is new for me, can you point that out for me.
Deminyn wrote:The -2 for TAGs thing is new for me, can you point that out for me.
Sure, here you go! The rules can be found in the rulebook on page 181, on the right column, in the entry directly above the X-Visor rules. Here's the direct quote to make your life a little simpler.
Rulebook wrote: Remote Presence, Manned and Archaic T.A.G.s T.A.G.s are closed armoured vehicles, so damage will always affect the vehicle much more than any of its pilots. For this reason, instead of Wounds they have Structure values.
Manned T.A.G.s cannot be repaired once they pass from Unconscious to Dead, (Taking the fourth point of Structure damage), while Remote Presence T.A.G.s can be repaired and recovered from the Dead state. An additional Wound Marker should be placed to indicate the Dead state of the T.A.G. If a Remote Presence T.A.G. suffers two points of Structure more than indicated by its Structure (STR) Attribute it is considered destroyed and must be removed from the battlefield.
Well, 5 pages and the admin pops in. Done. I was wrong. (which I said on page 4, but people started calling me names, so I kept on arguing back... ahhh nerd rage, I wish I was immune)
Deminyn wrote:Well, 5 pages and the admin pops in. Done. I was wrong. (which I said on page 4, but people started calling me names, so I kept on arguing back... ahhh nerd rage, I wish I was immune)
At least we got an 'official' answer in the end!
Nice to see that gamers are the same the world over though...
Lol, know how you feel, I can get dakka and my local gaming forum only at work.
Basically, there were 1-2 saying thanks, 1 guy defending himself from me sayig he's a jack...rabbit and 1 guy who missed the whole thing but wanted to put in his two cents about it, and to congratulate a healthy discussion.
i gotta say, this really makes the Interventor Sniper a freakin' super man. The guy ignores camo, has reduced range penalties and just uses DA to drop everything in a shot...
Deminyn wrote:i gotta say, this really makes the Interventor Sniper a freakin' super man. The guy ignores camo, has reduced range penalties and just uses DA to drop everything in a shot...
Interventor Sniper? Hrmm, is this something new in Human Sphere? In the Core rulebook the Interventor cannot take sniper rifles. The only piece of equipment I know that can "ignore camo" (i.e. can attack markers) is the level 3 Multi Spectral Visors (MSVL3). Or am I missing something?
EDIT: Perhaps are you referring to Intruders? They have BS13 with MSVL2 and X-Visors, which makes them pretty awesome snipers. They still have to "discover" camo markers before shooting, but you are absolutely correct that they are not suffer BS penalty versus any forms of camo.
Deminyn wrote:i gotta say, this really makes the Interventor Sniper a freakin' super man. The guy ignores camo, has reduced range penalties and just uses DA to drop everything in a shot...
Interventor Sniper? Hrmm, is this something new in Human Sphere? In the Core rulebook the Interventor cannot take sniper rifles. The only piece of equipment I know that can "ignore camo" (i.e. can attack markers) is the level 3 Multi Spectral Visors (MSVL3). Or am I missing something?
EDIT: Perhaps are you referring to Intruders? They have BS13 with MSVL2 and X-Visors, which makes them pretty awesome snipers. They still have to "discover" camo markers before shooting, but you are absolutely correct that they are not suffer BS penalty versus any forms of camo.
Next Lesson:
***
AMMUNITION TYPES:
Unlike many games where everyone has the exact same type of bullets and ammunition, certain weapons in the Infinity universe can trigger a variety of effects depending on the type of ammunition or effects your weapon may have. Here is a list of the different ammo types.
Normal (N) – Normal ammunition is your garden variety bullet. If you are hit by one, simply make one standard armor save as based on the Damage value of the weapon that shot the round.
Adhesive (ADH) – The fast acting rubber cement launcher, anyone hit by munition type must make a -6 PH check. If the target succeeds, the model managed to break free from the glue before it solidified. If the model fails the PH check then it is considered immobilized for the remainder of the game until an Engineer can get into base-to-base contact with the affected model and cut them loose with a successful WIP check.
Armor Piercing (AP) – A unit struck by an AP rounds looses half of their base ARM value. In case fractions always round the armor value up. (For example: Line Kazak have ARM1 and is hit by an AP round, his ARM value is technically 0.5 but since this is a fraction, round the ARM value back up to 1. ARM2 becomes ARM1, ARM3 becomes ARM2, etc.)
Note: AP ammo does not affect the +3 ARM bonus provided by cover.
Double Action (DA) – DA ammo basically contain a bullet within a bullet. Hence any model who is struck by a DA round must make TWO (2) separate armor saves against the hit.
Explosive (EXP) – Explosive ammunition types detonate upon impact, and has a chance of causing incredible amounts of damage. Anything that is unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of an explosive weapon must make THREE (3) normal armor saves. OUCH!
Note: Not all EXP weapons cause explosion template, and not all explosion templates cause EXP damage. EXPCCW for example causes a localized explosion when the weapon makes physical contact, and will only affect the target of the weapon. Guided Missiles on the other hand will explode into as a circulate template when a target is hit. Shrapnel from grenades are not powerful enough to cause EXP damage, however a bazooka to the forehead will force you to make 3x armor save...
Electro Magnetic (EM) – EM weapons are probably the most annoying non-lethal weapons in the game. Since Infinity is a futuristic sci-fi skirmish game, almost everything is affected by EM. A hit by EM weapon means the target model must immediate make a BTS save or all his special sci-fi weapons are automatically damaged by the EM weaponry. How is this useful you may add? Is your squad getting taken out by heavy infantry, TAG, or Remote? No problem, hit them with EM. One failed BTS save and bam, they are immobilized. Heck even the most basic combi-rifle can be disabled by EM weaponry. The only way equipment is if you have an Engineer on the payroll. The weapon chart will tell you whether specific equipment types are affected by EM.
Exception: Basic rifles (non-combi) and shotguns and Ariadna heavy infantry are NOT affected by EM. Ariadna heavy infantry do not use mechanized power armor, as they are regular people wearing heavy duty body armor. If medieval knights are not affected by EM, then neither will Ariadna HI.
FIRE – Fire templates always comes from a standard flamethrower or a heavy flamethrower. FIRE damage is brutal in Infinity, because if a single model is hit by FIRE damage he must immediately make an armor save, and the model needs to continue making saves until he either succeeds or dies from the fire! Additionally if an model with camouflage or TO camo is hit by FIRE then their camo is immediate damaged and downgraded to mimetism, which means that the model cannot cloak anymore.
Monofilament (Mono) – Mono weapons is probably the nastiest weapon in the game. Any model who is unfortunately to be struck by a mono weapon must make an unmodified (no ARM bonus) 12 armor check. If they fail armor check, then they will automatically pass to the dead state. Yes you still get an armor save, but it is unmodified 12. Roll less than 12 = instant death. Yes, instant death applies to your 3 structure TAGs.
MULTI – Multi weapons can use a variety of ammo types, and their weapon stats will look a little funky. The burst (B) value will include a set of numbers and the ammunition will also contain a set of ammo types separated by "/".
Example: The MULTI-HMG has B of 4/2/1 and Ammunition stat of N/AP/EXP. Which means that weapon can either shoot 4x using Normal ammo, 2x using AP ammo, or 1x using EXP ammo. You might wonder why anyone would use EXP ammo, as four shots is a lot more advantageous to roll four dice instead of one. However, the one shot of EXP ammo will be perfect for AROs as you can only fire once anyways (unless the shooter has "Total Reaction").
Shock – Shock weapons are designed to cause as physical trauma to the recipient as possible, hence any single wound models who fails their armor save against a shock weapon will automatically pass to the dead state. Please note that Shock rules do not apply to units with Structure (STR) or multiple wounds such as heavy infantry (HI)
T2 – Think Teseum coated hallow-point rounds. One failed save will automatically cause two wounds on the target.
Viral – Viral weapons automatically include the “Shock” special rule (see above). Anyone struck by viral weapons will cause a BTS save instead of a standard Armor save. Additionally viral special ammunition nullifies the Total and Shock Immunity special rules. So shock immune troops can still be instantly killed by viral weapons. As another bonus, any biological beings hit by viral weapons will loose their Transmutation special skill (i.e. Ariadna Dog Face)
AP/EXP - Don't you hate it when an armor piercing explosive weapon comes flying at your units? Yep you guessed it, AP/EXP weapons will not only half the half the natural ARM value of the target but also force them to make 3x armor saves.
Note: Only the target of the missle will be affected by the AP effect. Any models unfortunate enough to be caught in the missile's blast radius will still be forced to make 3x armor saves.
***
I think that's everything, please let me know if I missed something. Enjoy!
Alpharius wrote:Youch! That is a lot to remember...
It seems like a lot doesn't it? I wouldn't stress too much about it. Usually you can just look up the rules as you your opponent fires their spiffy ammo at you, besides in 90% of the games you play, you and your opponent will only bring 2-3 different weapon/ammo types, then 50% of them will only use the standard N ammo, such as grenades/grenade launchers, HMG, rifle/combi-rifle, shotguns, etc.
Deminyn wrote:Multi weapons to, and the different rates of fire/ammo types.
MULTI weapons use a hybrid of ammo types, so I didn't think to include it as a "separate" weapon class. I can see how the numbers (e.g. 4/2/1) can get a little confusing, so I went ahead and edited my original post to include "MULTI" weapons. Good catch!
Oops, I noticed that I just missed Adhesive as well. I will update the post again shortly.
Crap, that's why I asked... you got a different multi then we did.
From our forum:
The 3 bursts for Multi weapons are:
Multi rifle 3 normal, 2 AP or DA, 1 AP and DA Multi HMG: 4 N, 2 AP or EXP, 1 AP and EXP They can't use the 'and' ammo in ARO the Multi sniper doesn't have integrated ammo [no and ammo][as Integrated ammo says B=1 and Multi sniper doesn't have that option] (173-174, 186)
from the book:
p173 wrote:
• MULTI: These are Multipurpose Combi weapons that can be
loaded simultaneously with different types of ammunition:
1. Normal Ammunition. Using this Ammunition, it functions
normally and its B value is not reduced.
2. Light MULTI: AP or DA Special Ammunition may be chosen
by the shooter but the B value is reduced to 2. The types may be
alternated between, not during, Bursts.
Light MULTI Ammunition is only available in light weapons
such as MULTI Rifles.
3. Heavy MULTI: AP or EXP Special Ammunition may be
chosen by the shooter but the B value is reduced to 2. The types
may be alternated between, not during, Bursts.
Heavy MULTI Ammunition is only available in heavy weaponry,
such as MULTI Heavy Machine Guns
4. Integrated Special Ammunition. AP and EXP (MULTI
Heavy, Machine Gun Ammo, for instance), or AP and DA (MULTI
Light, Rifle, for example) may be chosen by the shooter but the B
value is reduced to 1.
In ARO, MULTI weapons can only select one type of Special
Ammunition to fire. They may not use Integrated Ammo.
The Multi Sniper should have 2/1 and therefore can do integrated ammo (DA+AP) (from Spanish rulebook)
The rulebooks (Spanish vs. English) differ *that* much?
No this was just a typo in English. In the weapon table under burst, English has '2' when it should be '2/1'. Someone verified it by looking in the Spanish rule book. It makes sense that it should be '2/1' as all the other multi weapons have integrated ammo.
Deminyn wrote:
No this was just a typo in English. In the weapon table under burst, English has '2' when it should be '2/1'. Someone verified it by looking in the Spanish rule book. It makes sense that it should be '2/1' as all the other multi weapons have integrated ammo.
Yep, you are correct, that most certainly is a typo. All MULTI weapons should have access to the Integrated Special Ammunition. I've yet to use it, because it's too easy to counter with ARO's. One-dice against one-dice in a face-to-face roll is rough but it's always nice to have the option.
Deminyn wrote:
No this was just a typo in English. In the weapon table under burst, English has '2' when it should be '2/1'. Someone verified it by looking in the Spanish rule book. It makes sense that it should be '2/1' as all the other multi weapons have integrated ammo.
Yep, you are correct, that most certainly is a typo. All MULTI weapons should have access to the Integrated Special Ammunition. I've yet to use it, because it's too easy to counter with ARO's. One-dice against one-dice in a face-to-face roll is rough but it's always nice to have the option.
Someone pointed out if you are coming out of camo, it isn't a FtF roll, so it's good then, or if you are in the back arc so no FtF either.
Out of curiosity, have you guys started playing games yet?
Deminyn wrote:Someone pointed out if you are coming out of camo, it isn't a FtF roll, so it's good then, or if you are in the back arc so no FtF either.
Oh, don't get me wrong, there's definitely circumstances where I can see Integrated Special ammo would be awesome, but I haven't had much look hitting people in the back for some reason. Most of my opponents must strap extra armor on their backs, because my shots either miss completely or get stopped by their armor.
We've played a couple games. I've got shot in the bag by AD guys before, and I've been jumped, but that was before we really knew that integrated ammo was DA+AP for the multi sniper.
Deminyn wrote:We've played a couple games. I've got shot in the bag by AD guys before, and I've been jumped, but that was before we really knew that integrated ammo was DA+AP for the multi sniper.
Good, a lot more dynamic and fun. Some things are extremely powerful (just part of the game) and we've had to work to make sure they aren't abused.
Snipers in high buildings. you can't just throw around 3 story buildings.
We've seen some chuck norris action with an Intruder sniper just walking along and dominating a part of the field. As he's got the cam + cover, he's at -6 to hit him, making him really powerful.
I think the game will really shine once we agree to start a bit of scenario and campaign play. The ability to interact with terrain in a lot more intelligent manner should be fun.
I think, judging by the way the posts are worded and sentence construction, that English is not their first language (given that the game IS Spanish, this is not surprising).
For this reason, I find reading many of the posts on that board to be a trifle headache inducing (and I read Dutch as well as English - so it's not JUST a 'foreign language' thing). There are also slightly different wordings in the English rulebook as opposed to the Spanish (and things that don't translate well or properly).
Oh, I agree that's what half of the 'problem' is over there.
The other really does seem to be the assumption that everyone knows exactly what everyone else is referring to when people post messages that are almost nothing but abbreviations!
That's why I'm glad that my current group is starting INFINITY at the same time. It definitely helps lessen the "what do you mean you don't know whether climb is a long or short action?" knowledge gap.
Part of the fun of INFINITY is attacking the game's steep learning curve, and just when you think you understand "all" the rules, and find your super combo, you'll discover that the actual game mechanic works quite differently on the tabletop! Guided missiles for example is crazy powerful on paper until you realize that it is quite order intensive, and its powers can be simply negated by your opponent bringing a hacker...
You're right that the official forms seem to have a crazy number of acronyms, and everyone starting on the same page will definitely help things!
Alpharius wrote:I think a bit on TAGs might be in order soon...
TAGs? Hrmm, there's not much to say about them other then...
1. They are the awesome in combat with powerful weapons, high accuracy, and mobility (6-4)!
2. Don't have regular "(W)ounds" but uses "(STR)ucture" points instead, which means they cannot be insta-killed by viral and shock weapons.
3. Remote presence TAGs need to be reduced to -2 STR before it is removed from the table (dead), and counts towards "retreat".
4. The pilot in manned TAG's must be KO'ed before the TAG is considered "dead". If the pilot is still alive, then the TAG does not count towards "retreat". If the TAG is reduced to -1 STR or hit by insta-kill weapons, then it is assumed that the pilot was killed while inside the vehicle. (i.e. Monofilament)
5. TAGs can be hacked. Upon declaring a hack attack on a TAG, the attacker must decide on whether the attack is to "disable" (1x success) or "hijack" (2x success). In order to hijack, the hacker must make two consecutive successful hack attacks. Since this requires two actions, hijack attacks can not be done as an ARO. If the TAG is successfully hijacked, it comes under enemy control. Combined Army (CA) TAG's can only be disabled never hijacked, because they are alien technology. (Unless your opponent is Jeff Goldblum, he hacked an alien motherships in ID4)
6. TAGs with "AD: Combat Jump" and "Explode" special rules (such as the CA "Caskuda") will clause an exposion when they "deep strike" onto the battlefield. Explode causes a circulate template damage 13 shock attack to any unit touching the template.
Any other funky rule questions people need some clarifications on? Otherwise, I'll start posting some weird stuff, like my Yu Jing army lists... Even though no one here seems to play YJ...
Salisar wrote:Any other funky rule questions people need some clarifications on? Otherwise, I'll start posting some weird stuff, like my Yu Jing army lists... Even though no one here seems to play YJ...
Paladin Blake wrote:I play YJ and I'd love to see some good lists.
Wow, a fellow Yu-Jinnite! Since we will be dominating the world, it wouldn't hurt to share a few lists with you.
Here is a nice (imo) offensive powerhouse list that is extremely hard to crack! I named the list: Ghosts, because all the heavy hitters contain a combination of mimetism and TO Camo. If memory serves, Keisotsu can only be Lieutenant in Japanese Sectorial lists now, so you can trim 2 points off, or get rid of the Yaozao and replace a Keisotsu with a Zhanshi Lt. You can also free up more points by replacing the Oniwaban Shinobu with a standard Oniwaban, but the concept is the same...
GHOSTS LI - KEISOTSU - Combi-Rifle - (0) - 9
LI - KEISOTSU - Combi-Rifle - (0) - 9
LI - KEISOTSU - Combi-Rifle - (0) - 9
LI - KEISOTSU - Combi-Rifle - (0) - 9
LI - ZHANSHI YISHENG - Combi-Rifle - (0) - 15
REM - YAOZAO - -- - Mimetism (0) - 3
MI - Aragoto Senkenbutai - Spitfire - Mimetism - (1) - 29
SK - Oniwaban Shinobu - Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser - TO Camo, Superior Infiltration - (0) - 50
HI - HAC TAO - HMG - TO Camo - (2) - 67
* Comments on how I played this list:
Keisotsu's are fairly straight forward order monkeys, so hide them responsibily. Place the Aragoto in a flanking position, and strike if the opportunity presents itself; if it is too risky to attack, then simply race the Aragoto onto the opposite side of the board and protect him with your hidden deployed TO Camo Oniwaban and Hac Tao. Anyone that goes after your bike will have a very bad day with BS14 HMGARO attacks from the Hac Tao that are not even not on the board yet. Even if your target is lucky enough to survive the first strike from the HMG, your opponent now has -9BS (-6 TO Camo + -3 Cover = -9) , ARM8 (ARM5 + 3Cover = ARM8), and two (2) wounds to contend with! In the meantime, try to keep your Oniwaban in reserve untill someone is silly enough to melee your Hac Tao, then you retaliate with the Oniwaban. Use your Martial Arts level 5 (MA5) with Monofilament CCW (Mono) or hit them with a nanopulser will mean instant death for most enemies who come into melee range.
If you can, keep your medic in relative safety and move Yao Zao with your camo army. Always spend an order or two to re-camo your Hac Tao and Oniwaban, and pull your bike back behind your TO defensive line. The bike's "Impetutous" move will immediately put him back into position, so don't sweat it if your Aragoto seems grossly out of position... 14" is a lot of ground to cover for a free Impetutious move. Once you can setup a defendable parameter, use your Aragoto to perform the assassination runs, and return him into your safe haven before you run out of orders. The Spitfire with (B)urst 4, (D)amage14 and Aragoto's BS12 with Mimetism and mobility makes him very, very dangerous!
Try it out and let me know what you think, but from my experience this has been a fairly solid performing list. As always, dice can play a factor, I've had my Hac Tao go down to double crits with combi-rifle then failing my "doctor WIP" check...
Thanks for the list. It looks interesting, and I've been meaning to try out a Japanese list for a bit, now. I've got a game tomorrow, but, since my friend just got his Haqqislam Hassassin sectorial starter in the mail today, we might just want to run a starter box game so he can get a feel for the faction. Unless something goes terribly awry, I'll at least give a synopsis of the game after we play.
Also, for those that are interested, there's a really handy wiki site for INFINITY rules. If you're away from your rulebook or just reading up, it's a dang useful site.
Paladin Blake wrote:Thanks for the list. It looks interesting, and I've been meaning to try out a Japanese list for a bit, now. I've got a game tomorrow, but, since my friend just got his Haqqislam Hassassin sectorial starter in the mail today, we might just want to run a starter box game so he can get a feel for the faction. Unless something goes terribly awry, I'll at least give a synopsis of the game after we play.
Japanese Sectorial is really quite fun, as the Sectorial composition can change the YJ playstyle considerably. Box games are quite fun, but you do need to pay attention to the point costs, as not all starter boxes are equal. If memory serves, the YJ starter box is exactly 120 points, while the Combined Army is closer to 200. The lack of parity may turn off some gamers; luckly I was the person who got rocked by the CA Charontid and not a starting new player. Dang, plasma weapons are nasty!!!
By the end of the game, most of army had no weapons other than their knife and harsh language, as the starter box didn't have any engineers.
It might be a good idea to split out the lists to separate threads, as this thread was started mostly to discuss INFINITY in general, especially from a rules standpoint.
But don't get me wrong - I love reading about people's lists too!
Alpharius wrote:It might be a good idea to split out the lists to separate threads, as this thread was started mostly to discuss INFINITY in general, especially from a rules standpoint.
But don't get me wrong - I love reading about people's lists too!
Yeah, good point. Ironically, Paladin Blake started this thread with a list. Can you move the list post to another thread Alpharius? Otherwise, we can create another one.
Haha, sorry... Work's been ridiculous lately. 6-7am morning meetings and 12 hour days get old after awhile... :(
The new models are sweet! I am still waiting for the new Yu Jing stuff to hit the shelves... I really like the Evo repeater drone too! I'm going to have to start thinking about Nomads again possibly...
One interesting scenario popped up during this weekend's Infinity game.
With the help of my Oniwaban Shinobu and my new MSVL2 drone, I managed to wipe out my opponent's Linked squad...
Thinking that I was on the verge of victory, I went on the offensive, then my opponent did something totally unexpected. He used his Lieutenant order to linked his order monkeys together and counterattack was brutal... The ability to move five Monkeys with a single order and bonuses of +3BS and +1Burst to the link leader is nasty. So watch out for this dirty trick in your future games!
Alpharius wrote:Looks like linked troops are adding a whole new dimension to the game that will take some getting used to!
Surprisingly enough, the entire Human Sphere expansion's actually changed the game quite a bit, and the addition of Sectorial armies really changes the dynamics of the already distinctive factions. New rules and attributes like "Chain of Command" allows players to be far more aggressive with their Lieutenant and actually using him/her with great effect. That one additional Lt. order can be brutal on an unit like the Oniwaban Shinobu Kitsune. It really changes the dynamics of the game considerably.
It's just like an armour roll. Ignore the negative modifier.
So a BTS of -6 is better to have than a BTS of -3 for example.
Example:
If you're hit by a viral sniper rifle, power 15, attacks BTS, and your BTS is -3 then:
You need to beat 15 to survive.
Armour roll + magnitude of BTS must be > 15 to live
so you need to roll a 13
as
13 + 3 = 16. Which beats 15, and you live.
Except with viral ammo it's two saves for each hit, so you have to do it twice! That's a seperate point though
You use the BTS as a positive number (it's usually a -ve), so a hacker with BTS-3 would have "Armour" 3 (essentially) when hit by a weapon that makes them take BTS rolls.
Alexej Dorianov wrote:Thanks
but why that "minus" ????
if it would be like ARM, not -3, but just 3, that would be the same, and not so confusing
I guess it could be because at the beginning of Infinity, the first Infinity rules, the BTS was almost only used as a negative modifier for hacker attacks.
You know... the Fusilier hacker tries to inmovilize a Hsien, so it will be the fusiliers willpower with the -3 of the Hsien´s BTS.
There was no Viral ammo, that came with the Human Sphere book. I can think only in the Nanopulser that makes the player use his BTS as armor in that first edition.
thank you !
I would use some help with my 300pts Haqqislam army list
Is the H G. Launcher on Maghariba Guard worth those points ?
And if so, is it worth to bring forward observer with it (and if yes, Al Hawa or Hunzakut? )
what bothers me is the lack of Hacker in my army :-/
another version is with
Maghariba guard with H G Launcher
A Hawa Forward Observer (instead of Djanbazan Lieut)
Asawira is Lieutanant
common Ragik (rifle.L shotgun)
+ Muttawih for the spare 6 pts
Wow an infinity thread that I haven't touched that is several pages deep? Gasp!
I really can't help you on Haqq though since I don't know them well to give detailed advise. I will say that I dont' care for the M Guard purely because of it's size. It's a PITA to navigate.
I've a question based on the background, as I've not read any yet, and I've always been interested in throwing in with background plots where possible.
Aurelia is pretty much looking at Haqqislam as her starting force. Do they have a bitter rival, or a more common enemy faction in the background?
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I've a question based on the background, as I've not read any yet, and I've always been interested in throwing in with background plots where possible.
Aurelia is pretty much looking at Haqqislam as her starting force. Do they have a bitter rival, or a more common enemy faction in the background?
As far as I know, the Haqqislam faction is the more peaceful nation in the Infinity setting.
I guess the common known foes here are:
PanOceania Vs. YuJing - Both trying to be the most powerful human faction.
ALEPH Vs. Nomads - Complete opposite filosophy and lifestyles.
ALEPH Vs. Combined Army- Both ruled by sinister A.I.s
Ariadna Vs. Everyone- They claim for independence of their own planet, full of the most valuable natural resources.
Haqqislam has something called "the Silk" which is necessary for all about genetics and cloning stuff in the future. They are traders, and they even have an special army protecting "the Silk route".
Ah nice, thanks, and actually I think Aurelia will like the background for Haqqislam more now, as well as the fact she liked the models. We where partially worried, they'd gone down the 'terrorist' route for a back story.
Means I'm probably go for aggressors after their Silk route, which allows me to pick from any of my three and tailor a plot around my army v's hers.
Because I respect my fellow dakkites here, I need a little help, and want to hear your facts/opinions on the game.
I am looking to get into Infinity, but two questions... 1) Is there a copy of the rules I can buy, or are the rules all downloadable? 2) Also, is there a source book, or something, for each faction that lists their fluff, units, etc? 3) Lastly, what is a good sized game for someone to learn the game with, like, how many models/points would a beginner need to get into the game? I am looking to buy figures for me and a mate, and would like to know what to get to make that happen for our first games.
Thank you for your help. I am really really interested in getting into this game (after dumping 40k after 23 years of supporting it).
- edit -
Found some answers
Revised question... What is the difference between the free rules you can DL at 53 pages, and the hard cover 2nd edition rule book at 200+ pages?
2) Also, is there a source book, or something, for each faction that lists their fluff, units, etc?
You can buy the rulebooks. Infinity has TWO rulebooks.
The First one, Infinity the Game, contains all the fluff from all the factions, all the rules and army lists.
The Second Book, Infinity: Human Sphere, is an expansion. It includes new troops, fluff and rules for all the existing armies, it brings the sectorial armies and a brand new army: ALEPH
EDIT
The difference between the books and the free PDF is that... the free rules are just the strictly necesary for playing, the books come with art and fluff. The infinity background is very detailed, some factions are much more than the miniatures. Its HUGE.
3) Lastly, what is a good sized game for someone to learn the game with, like, how many models/points would a beginner need to get into the game? I am looking to buy figures for me and a mate, and would like to know what to get to make that happen for our first games.
I´ll recommend you both to buy starter packs, they come with 6 miniatures and that is enough for the first games, around 125 pts. Tournament games are about 250-300pts wich are usually 10-16 miniatures.
There are plenty of starter packs in the Infinity range, usually two per faction.
I´ll recommend using the quickstart rules and starter packs for beginning.
Also... Beasts of War made an awesome Infinity themed week and they made videos showing the rules system.
Yeah, I'll be most def. getting the hardcover Books then. I need my fluff and army descriptions dammit!
Thank you very much for taking your time and helping me out with that detailed post. I am looking to buy two starting armies for me and anyone in my area to use so we can start an Infinity club in my local area.
I'm diggin the look of Infinity, but I have no idea where to start. Any pointers? I'm looking for a force that has a lot of those mech type things and can field them well.
Puscifer wrote:I'm diggin the look of Infinity, but I have no idea where to start. Any pointers? I'm looking for a force that has a lot of those mech type things and can field them well.
It is the A.I. themed army, full of robots, artificial bodys and HiTech. They usually are expensive troops, so you will probably will have a 10 miniature army at 300pts. The startter pack comes with 6 minis, 175pts.
Just a warning though ALEPH is a newer faction, so it doesn't have the wide range of options that some of the other factions have. All factions except Ariadna can go mech as well just not to the extent of the all AI ALEPH.
Wow, with all the crap GW coming forth from them (price increase, switch to resin amongst other stuff.) I am seriously thinking about jumping over to Infinity.
My only issue is which army to buy?
I like Ariadna, both the Merovingian and Caledonian sectorals as well as Yu Jing and PanOceania (Military order and maybe the Acontecimento). Aleph is also pretty sweet.
If I went with the Merovingian's, I would want to include Mirage 5, if I go with the Caledonian's I would want William Wallace in there...
With Yu Jing, I would want the Oniwaban Ninja, cause he looks so boss, but I am not sure if I should go with a link team of Keisotsu's or Haramaki's? I wish they would release the O-Yori tag...sigh...
For PanOceania, I would mostly go with Military order sectoral filled with Magister knights and Order Sgts.
Does it matter which starter I pick? Are they pretty well balanced against one another?
Chaplain Pallantide wrote:Wow, with all the crap GW coming forth from them (price increase, switch to resin amongst other stuff.) I am seriously thinking about jumping over to Infinity.
My only issue is which army to buy?
I like Ariadna, both the Merovingian and Caledonian sectorals as well as Yu Jing and PanOceania (Military order and maybe the Acontecimento). Aleph is also pretty sweet.
If I went with the Merovingian's, I would want to include Mirage 5, if I go with the Caledonian's I would want William Wallace in there...
With Yu Jing, I would want the Oniwaban Ninja, cause he looks so boss, but I am not sure if I should go with a link team of Keisotsu's or Haramaki's? I wish they would release the O-Yori tag...sigh...
For PanOceania, I would mostly go with Military order sectoral filled with Magister knights and Order Sgts.
Does it matter which starter I pick? Are they pretty well balanced against one another?
After 23 years, I left GW. I have gotten back into WarmaHordes and getting into Infinity.
I ordered both Hard Cover rule books and the starter forces for the Haqqislam and Yu Jing.
I already have a few friends interested in the game, so we'll see what happens once I paint up the models and get them in some games.
For me this is a fresh start. I am dumping out the power gamer in my and leaving it back in 40k, and playing Infinity as I would if I was a young gamer, for fun with narrative story lines.
I just want to say this here as well: I need opponents for infinity! Anywhere in the London area, I'm in South London myself, just bought some nomads and need to try them out.
I've painted a prowler and a zero so far, really cool models, very different from 40k. Painting 2 intruders right now. I'll try to take some pictures in a few days.
Is there a faction that seems to be more popular than the rest among the players? I'm mainly interested in PanOceania because they look cool (don't care about who's best or whatever), but I can't shake the feeling that they're the equivalent of Space Marines in Infinity.
From following Infinity threads here, I see more folks talking about Nomads and Yu Jing overall. Of course that is just a snapshot.
PanOceania is the biggest faction in the background, but I'm not so certain it equates to biggest player faction.
On a side note, reading the background as I pause to type here, loving it so far. Like some of the themes and ideas they came up with, probably going to buy the Human Sphere book asap now, more so for more background info than the Aleph rules and extra units.
I don't think you can draw realistic parallels to WH40K from Infinity, it's just different.
Pan O, is not the Space Marines of Infinity, they are a faction that is (within the fluff) one of the most powerful....a bit like how the USA might be considered in the modern era.
This doesn't make them the poster boys, Corvus Belli have elected (intelligently) not to do the whole "promote one at the expense of all of the others" model that GW seems to favour....which means new players are certain that not only can they pick any faction they wish, and it will have a measure of balance within the game, but, no matter what faction they pick, Corvus Belli will support them all evenly.
Though Combined Army, being the big bad aliens, doesn't get any large chested or provocative posed models lol. This may be seen as them getting the short end of the stick
Really enjoyed the background, I could see myself getting into at least another faction if I enjoy the gameplay. Although not one stood out to me as a 'meh, I'd not bother' based on their background, they all had at least one interesting quirk that could of drawn me in.
Hell the only issue I see now, is Corvus need to release more figs, I could easily see myself having a dedicated force in Infinity based from each of the three Nomad ships, I'd also love a full squad of Moria's.
I have just seen in the Corvus Belli online Store that they have put an "Out of Stock" banner over both english version books. Seems like the Infinity week has nearly sold out every copy.
I guess it is just a matter of time they print more.
Hell the only issue I see now, is Corvus need to release more figs, I could easily see myself having a dedicated force in Infinity based from each of the three Nomad ships, I'd also love a full squad of Moria's.
Corvus Belli release at least 5 new products every month. More than usual miniature companies.
By the way, about Nomads... They are just focusing in 2 of the 3 Fleets: Bakunin (Moiras, Zeros, SinEaters, Moderators...) and Corregidor. (Alguaciles, Intruders, Hellcats, Tomcats, Moran...)
There are a few miniatures that belong to the 3rd ship, Tunguska, but they say that the Tunguska (Securitate, Interventor, Spektr...) sectorial army will be released with the 3rd expansion book.
Very mixed. JSA prob pulls ahead jsut a bit for the whole "Invisible Lightsaber Uber Ninjas" and "Motorcycle Drive-by" factor, but Imperial having Celestial guard and Kuang Shi linked teams has huge appeal.
Though playing nomads I just refer to them all as Eggrolls
Are any of the factions widely regarded as less competitive, more monotonous to play, or just less fun than the others, or is the game pretty well balanced at present?
I'd say they're all pretty well balanced. At the moment, a new player can roll with what-ever hey feel suits their tastes and still be competitve with other factions.
I've been told that Aleph may require a bit more finesse, but I'm not sure why that is the case
Put them together within 12hrs, based them, undercoated and began paiting within 24hrs total.
Thats a record over the past ten years.
Going for a yellow/cream and Grey/black colour scheme for Corregidor. Pink/purple, red, blue and white for Bakunin and black/grey, red for Tunguska.
Going to try and eventually have teams set to each ship, with the nomad symbol tie them together in games where I use troops from the various ships together.
Despite the lack of tanks, the models and game look very intresting. Probably see if I can't drag someone in my WH40k group to get into this so we can try it. Question is now, Nomad (lawesome sci-fi look) or Ariadna (more modern army look.)
Not sure, I'll be using mine to start, but I plan on adding new terrain for Infinity as soon as poss.
I'm probably going to do some outdoor battles as well, see how rocky outcrops and tree cover plays out.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:One question for you guys; will my CoD terrain be sufficient for this game, or should I invest some time into making other terrain?
_Tim?
It'll work for a start, but you WILL want more LOS blocking stuff - the GW "swiss cheese" terrain will get you killed a lot quicker in infinity games.
I've added boards to the inside of some of the "windows" (cut up wooden coffee stirrers) to block out several of them on mine - I have 3 CoD ruins out of 6 tables worth of 40k terrain.)
We'll(Aurelia and myself) be trying our first battle tomorrow, will share how it goes. If I can use a jedi mind trick on the camera I might even get some pics up.
Is Infinity a "what you see is what you get type of game"? I know a lot of models have different weapon options, are there different blisters for each weapon type, or is it a separate arm type of deal?
Most of the arms seem to come seperate, but they don't ship models with alternate weapons - actually one of the May releases, the guarda assalto, has 2 different weapons, that's the first one I've heard of, maybe it's a sign of things to come. I have seen pictures of arm/weapon swaps between models, since lots of units have weapon options available that aren't supported by current models.
The other thing I've been told is that proxying different weapons and such is more approved of in Infinity than 40k. Perhaps it is because Infinity revolves around trying out new units and tactics game by game, rather than bringing all-comer lists against multiple opponents.
The models for Infinity are indeed WYSIWYG, but it is generally accepted that proxying weapons for another and similar looking model with the correct weapon, is fine. As per the Infinity Tourney rules if there is a missing model from the Infinity range, any other model from the Infinity range may be proxied in it's place as long as it is the generally accepted size for said model and has a similar weapon.
Nomad Szalamandra = Nomad Iguana
Pan'O Cutter = Nomad Iguana
Yu-Jing Gūijiă (prob without the sword) = Nomad Iguana
Okay, I think I have decided on my first two purchases. I am liking PanOceania and YuJing at the moment, so I will be picking up the Military Orders Box for PanOceania. And also, the Imperial Service box for YuJing. As all of my commission work earnings provide my Miniature budget, I will have to wait a bit to pick these boxes up. Really excited!
I think I'm going to go with those two factions as well. Pan Oceania because of the cool anime style of a lot of the troops, Yu Jing on the basis they have samurai and cyber-zombies which impetuously charge at the enemy then explode when killed
The wonderful thing is though it is so relatively cheap to complete a force, there is nothing to stop you (other than painting man-hours) to get all of the factions you like!
Pacific wrote:I think I'm going to go with those two factions as well. Pan Oceania because of the cool anime style of a lot of the troops, Yu Jing on the basis they have samurai and cyber-zombies which impetuously charge at the enemy then explode when killed
The wonderful thing is though it is so relatively cheap to complete a force, there is nothing to stop you (other than painting man-hours) to get all of the factions you like!
Yep, that is the beauty of the thing. Once I get my first two starters, I might even pick up the Combined army starter box, just so I can have 3 nice small!) armies to paint. I love the way that this game is all about small armies, it gives me more time to lavish on each model.
Speaking of painting, I am thinking of doing a Jade green trim, earthy orange for the main armor color, and black for the cloth color scheme for my YuJing. For the Panoceania army, I think that I might go with black armor, offwhite cloth, and either red of grayish blue trim.
_Tim?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Stupid question, I know, but where is the weapons chart? I can't seem to find it anywhere!
BobbaFett wrote:I have just seen in the Corvus Belli online Store that they have put an "Out of Stock" banner over both english version books. Seems like the Infinity week has nearly sold out every copy.
I guess it is just a matter of time they print more.
I just got a reply back from them about that. Human Sphere is being reprinted and should be back in stock mid-July
Pacific wrote:There is a quite excellent write up on Infinity on this blog:
The background made my eyes bleed, but +1 otherwise.
BobbaFett wrote:I have just seen in the Corvus Belli online Store that they have put an "Out of Stock" banner over both english version books. Seems like the Infinity week has nearly sold out every copy.
I guess it is just a matter of time they print more.
I just got a reply back from them about that. Human Sphere is being reprinted and should be back in stock mid-July
The 'top ten minis' part on that blog is pretty good also!
I ordered the main rulebook from Dark Sphere, as far as I know it was still in stock there so might be worthwhile checking them out?
Really goes to show you how beautiful the Human Sphere book is. All of it's rules are available completely free for download yet the company still sells completely out of their entire stock
Yoinked from the main Infinity webpage, this is a video from Beasts of War and an introduction to the game (as well as links to a handy introductory starter set of rules). I found it really useful.
If anyone is unsure about the game, the video is quite long but it sells it really well:
Sadly I have been contemplating doing a few tutorial videos. There isn't really a whole lot out there for people to view. Would anyone even have interest in something like that?
BlueDagger wrote:Sadly I have been contemplating doing a few tutorial videos. There isn't really a whole lot out there for people to view. Would anyone even have interest in something like that?
Right now there are videos with Irish accent and those spanish accent videos by CB. No one has tried to make a video with an English-American voice over.
Maybe this is the chance to connect with the USA players without an extrange accent. Everything counts.
Thanks Pacific for posting the link to my Blog. I was wandering why I'd seen a huge spike in traffic from Dakka Dakka. Just to clarify I don't 'hate' the Games Workshop. I just don't 'get on' with them anymore!!!
I'm just supremely grateful that there are games the quality of Infinity out there to keep me occupied!!! Cheers to all the people who read my Blog and didn't want to kill me
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobbaFett wrote:
BlueDagger wrote:Sadly I have been contemplating doing a few tutorial videos. There isn't really a whole lot out there for people to view. Would anyone even have interest in something like that?
Right now there are videos with Irish accent and those spanish accent videos by CB. No one has tried to make a video with an English-American voice over.
Maybe this is the chance to connect with the USA players without an extrange accent. Everything counts.
BlueDagger I think that would be an awesome idea. I think it'd be really useful to have a few more vids on the old tinternet kicking around!!!
I bought three armies during Infinity Week -- Nomads, Yu Jing and Aleph.
I've been eyeing up Infinity for several years -- I've got the first edition rulebook -- but the collapse of the £ vs Euro made them seem rather expensive. Now I have the bulk of three factions of course I want to round them out a bit, and I want to get Haqqislam as well.
Fortunately the GW price rises make Infinity models seem very cheap by contrast.
KillKrazy I too have Yu Jing, Alep, Haqq and Nomads... I'm a complete faction whore to be honest with you!!! I can't help but chuffing buy more infinity miniatures as i love them. Not going to rip on the GW... I've done enough of that on my Blog recently and had some death threats form GW fanboi's... I didn't think what I said about Finecast was unfair, but apparently I need to die!!! lol. But what I will say are that the Infinity models are gorgeous and that you just don't need as much dough to get into the game as you do with things like 40k. I know Infinity won't be everyones cup of green tea but it is a damn fine game and any one sitting on the fench I would truly urge to take the plunge!!!
SirAngry wrote:Thanks Pacific for posting the link to my Blog. I was wandering why I'd seen a huge spike in traffic from Dakka Dakka. Just to clarify I don't 'hate' the Games Workshop. I just don't 'get on' with them anymore!!!
I'm just supremely grateful that there are games the quality of Infinity out there to keep me occupied!!! Cheers to all the people who read my Blog and didn't want to kill me
No problem mate, thought it was a really well written blog, and amusingly written (a welcome break from the storm of negativity which has been floating around recently!) And, you helped sell the game to me.
I've just ordered the Haqqislam Bahram starter pack, can't wait to get my hands on it and start painting!
How is ordering from the Corvus Belli online store? I'm always a bit jarred going from the well designed Inifinity: the Game pages to the bland, stark store page.
Normally I'd just order off Amazon or eBay but no one seems to have the ALEPH Starter
I just picked up the Pan Oceania starter as my first foray into Infinity and I must say... wow... these miniatures are SUPER nice. They required so little cleanup I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Absolutely fantastic stuff.
Can't wait for my next paycheque so I can pick up some more!
Sparks wrote:How is ordering from the Corvus Belli online store? I'm always a bit jarred going from the well designed Inifinity: the Game pages to the bland, stark store page.
Normally I'd just order off Amazon or eBay but no one seems to have the ALEPH Starter
I'm not sure, I've made both my orders from UK independents. I'm sure if you do a search in google you should find tons of internet stores you can order from.
A friend ordered a load of stuff from the Corvus Belli website when the Beasts of war week was on and they were snowed under with demand. It got to him here in the UK within the week. Not too sure what shipping to the states is like though. Ask on the official forums I'm sure one of the helpful members will be able to give you an answer.
BlueDagger wrote:Sadly I have been contemplating doing a few tutorial videos. There isn't really a whole lot out there for people to view. Would anyone even have interest in something like that?
K guys I make a pledge to you that I will do up a video (god help me) sometime next week when I get my HD camera back. First will be the basics, obviously, then the next will be a full game from start to finish at low point value.
BlueDagger wrote:K guys I make a pledge to you that I will do up a video (god help me) sometime next week when I get my HD camera back. First will be the basics, obviously, then the next will be a full game from start to finish at low point value.
This sounds awesome - I'm looking forward to it!
Eventually, if you could get some of the trickier aspects covered too, that would be great!
Yeah, we are currently having a intense debate about cover here at the moment. The vast majority of the time it is pretty clear cut if you know what you are doing, but then you have those curve-ball models that just throw logic out the window because they are so hyperdynamic that you can have half the base showing inplain site, but not a single bit of the model showing.
So, does anyone out there actually play? I'd love to see some pics of peoples forces or even a battle report. Those are the same things that get me cranked up about 40k and I imagine they'd do the same thing for Infinity.
Batreps are rather cumbersome for Infinity since #1 both players are constantly engaged and #2 a lot happens every turn... I mean a lot. So keeping track of what happened when becomes a bit of a daunting task.
40k:
- Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Rhino moved here, Squad move here
- These guys shot, 2 guys died, This missile shot and failed to hit
- One squad assaulted, swept the unit
Infinity
- Moderator moves up to the corner, the model neaby drops a mine as it's ARO and a sniper opens fire, the Moderator fires 1 shot at the model nearby and 3 shots at the sniper, the moderator hits the model nearby killing him,meanwhile the sniper and moderator Face to Face roll and the sniper wins! but the moderator passes his armor and guts check.
That is one order out of probably 11 for that player's turn, then you have the other players turn to complete a game turn. In all actually it takes only a few minutes, but tracking everything that happened is the cumbersome part.
I do appreciate the pics though and would encourage anyone trying to promote the game to post similarly... helps give those of us in "investigation mode" something to latch onto and use as inspiration.
After having a look through this thread and the official website, i've been convinced to dip my toe. Yu Jing Imperial Service starter and the rulebook.
Have to make some blade runner influenced terrain now... dammit...
Spoiler:
In other news, Micro Art Studio's infinity terrain pieces look fabulous.
Gitsplitta wrote:So, does anyone out there actually play? I'd love to see some pics of peoples forces or even a battle report. Those are the same things that get me cranked up about 40k and I imagine they'd do the same thing for Infinity.
This is the BEST Battle Report I have seen for any wargame ever, and it is INFINITY, from the official forum:
That Bat rep is frigging awesome, in amongst that and some other bat reps on the site the game was sold to me.
Gitsplitta, I can't recommend enough going to the Infinity forum and having a browse of the boards. The community on there is really friendly, I think a lot of people have been persuaded to join just because of how good natured and helpful people are there.
Here is another one from that site, again really nice pics and designed as an intro to the game:
A Hassassin Fiday impersonator stayed with his holographic disguise near the enemy’s Zone of Deployment
That guy silently killing someone, stealing their weapon and then moving back into the shadows is so cool.
Have to make some blade runner influenced terrain now... dammit...
Glad to see I'm not the only one who has thought of getting some cheap LED screens and having them run Blade Runner-esque video in the background!
MicroArts do this pretty cool perspex wall section, I'm not sure if anyone else does the same thing? I think this combined with a bunch of those iKubes would make a pretty cool looking table.
Nope, but they also do not have anything that can be hacked and have some seriously powerful stuff. Tank Hunters and Antipodes are the bane of my existence.
Thats good to know, since I just bought the Ariadna starter pack. Also bought 3 other starter sets to drag some of my WH40k buddies into it. Now that the initial investment is out of the way for them, they're far more interested now, though the one's girlfriend is borderline pissed at me for introducing another "money sink"
Wazzup guys... was wondering if you guys could clear up some general Infinity issues - 1) what are the rules concerning support troops? Can I have 2 support units in the same squad? 2) does Infinity have the equivalent of an FOC as in 40k, i.e. must take at least two line troops, etc? 3) I downloaded the army & weapons list from their website, but can't find specs for some units, for instance Equipe Mirage Team 5, etc. Thanks in advance
There are two army lists to download - the rule book army list and then the army list from the Human Sphere expansion. Both are on the website, I'd guess that Mirage 5 is in Human Sphere and you only have the main list.
Instead of a FOC you have AVA - availability. So you can take as many, or few, of any models you wish but you can't exceed the AVA. Some grunts have total AVA, and some elites have AVA 1.
You're also limited to 10 models per combat group, though you can have multiple combat groups. I'd suggest aiming for one combat group of 9 to 10 guys until you understand why you might want 2 groups. Usually you only want the one.
quozl is correct on all accounts. In all honestt though, build lists by hand is a pain, so jsut use the FREE army builder http://infinitythegame.com/dt_army/
Since you are starting out go ahead and have fun building lists, but you will want to start out at about 150pts (3 swc). You can take up to 10 models in a combat group, after that you have to split them up. Most choices take up one of these slots but there is exceptions like Aleph Proxies, Servants, G:Sync etc. Mirage 5 is actually 2 models so you take up two slots and they grant 2 orders and having faced them a few times they are fantastic.
Thanks for the help, much more psyched about the game now. Great how tactical and complex the game seems to be. Never knew the alternatives to GW were actually this good
Haha you have no idea till you play a few games let's just say I have yet to play the same list twice unless it's the only thing I have on me and I wanna get more games in a single day.
Loving the game so far, we're at the learning stage so plenty of rulebook checks buts its fun.
Hoping to play a few more over the next week or so. Terrain seemed okay, but I am planning on expanding on my buildings, taking inspiration from the Halo Reach farm houses in the first mission for starters.
We've gone on the premise all our battles are on paradise, as it fits our terrain, plus it puts all potential forces in the area if we eventually expand to other factions.
Hey all, I'm just getting into infinity, ordered a Yu'Jing Starter box, and a Hamaraki Zensenbutai box. Models look great,and I can't wait to try the game out.
If they can see your model they can prolly kill it in their turn if they really want, unless you have alot of models all with line of site to their firing positions to stack up the reaction dice.
When we started playing alot I went out and bought a bunch of foam boards to make up several multi-room buildings to fight over. In this game its all about cover and staying out of line of site. Since most models get to shoot alot of shots a couple orders can equal the death of many minis, this is especially true of the heavy machine gun troopers. A skilled heavy MG can wipe out an entire opposing force if you set up wrong.
In general infinity has a very steep learning curve, a mistake in set up can cost you the game in one or two turns. Also losing your LT. can cost you the game very quickly as well as it will effectively give them 2 turns on you....at the end of which your usually dead. This game has many more considerations to think about than 40k. Alot more options and the troops abilities can in general be much more lethal, esp when you can devote alot of orders to one figure to rambo the other side.
Its a great game, but far far different from 40k. Read your rules and know the troops capabilities if you dont want to lose all the time. New players often dont realize how fast their entire force can be wiped out by someone that knows how to play their army well. Also lots of terrain, the table needs to be heavily covered in terrain unlike 40k where terrain is more of an afterthought. Terrain is really what make infinity shine. To little and its a shooting range for heavy wpns and not a fun game. So the more the better if you want a good solid fun game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As to snipers without alot of terrain they can win the game single-handedly, and in the right spot even with terrain can be very difficult to deal with...pretty realistic imo.
Every unit in a well built list has a purpose even the cheap infantry grunts. Key is figuring out how to make them all work as an effective fire team/squad.
I think the onus is definitely on players running intro games, and games with new players, to ease them in gently. Not rub their face into the dirt and lord it over them first game, let them take some time to get used to the system. It's got 10 times the depth of 40k, and needs a similarly greater amount of time to get the hang of I feel.
If you demo a game between new players you should always do the same number of guys on each side and at very low point costs, start with the basics. If you have a friend that wants to play you that hasn't played before or has very little experience compared to you then don't be afraid to handicap yourself. I often take a little under 150 pts with like 1 SWC and let my opponent take 4+ SWC and 150-175pts. A vet vs a new player you can still easily win with that much of a handicap.
K so I'm going to try to record one of our matches tonight from start to finish, anyone know of a better means of hosting then Youtube? 15mins max would mean a lot of broken up videos lol
I am excited because someone at my FLGS is going to demo Infinity for me. I LOVE skirmish games and the figs have drawn my attention for a while now. Plus I really want to do a game table project and the idea of making one with loads of buildings etc really appeals to me.
I hope the actual game experience lives up to what I've already worked up in my head. I suspect it will be even better than I imagine.
Well I hope your friend shows it good. I playing with 2 of my friends with the starter rules that BeastofWar has up with Corvus Beli (creators of inifnity), and after 2-3 games with those easy rules they both were "We should try higher points". And now we have played very steady for 3 months now, mostly using 40k models but, always good to test what you like and don't like. Just ordered a Haqqislam Starter Pack, stand ins and proxy always work too :3 since I would not use that many Ghulam that you get.
BlueDagger wrote:K so I'm going to try to record one of our matches tonight from start to finish, anyone know of a better means of hosting then Youtube? 15mins max would mean a lot of broken up videos lol
I THINK I can upload veeeeeeeeery long ones on mine, since I created it... 4-5 years ago or so. send me a mail on zeigkel88@gmail.com edit: on youtube I mean
I have read all the Regular Rules and intro files that infinitythegame.com has on their site as well as watched the INFINITY WEEK stuff from Beats Of War. That's one of the reasons I'm champing at the bit to play an actual game.
Thus far I'm most interested in Yu Jin, Haqqislam and PanO. Assuming I like it as well as I think then when it comes time to make purchases I will have to pick my army. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife (20 | 1)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (13)
199 Points | SWC: 4
ARMY CODE: eNozMlQ1NFAzUDOsgVKWaoZw0ljNHEiaqBmBSaAsAOduCgY=
Army Infinity v.3.0. - http://www.devilteam.com
Just helping a friend who wants to get going with the game. Woop, group going up to total 5 people now! (including me). And yeah.. PanO isn't my teams o.. I dunno :S
This is kind of a generic question as I haven't even played a demo game yet... but...
Are the lower end grunt troops of any use? I see a lot of people have next to none of them in their lists. Are they no good even in numbers to gang up on other soldiers?
AzurePhoenix wrote:This is kind of a generic question as I haven't even played a demo game yet... but...
Are the lower end grunt troops of any use? I see a lot of people have next to none of them in their lists. Are they no good even in numbers to gang up on other soldiers?
They're useful. It depends on the points level to an extent though. As you mostly will stick to one combat group as you go up in points you won't have more models you'll instead have better models. So the lower points guys will mostly be traded out for more expensive guys at 250 or 300 points.
I often have 2 or so Alguaciles, Ghulam, Naffatun or the 14 point Witch-soldiers in my lists even at 300 points.
At the least they're cheap orders. At the best they can still crit a TAG just as easily as a more expensive guy can.
They also can provide some special features that the bigger guys can't:
Naffatun - 12 point heavy (large template) flame-thrower. Great against camo tokens or to prevent people rounding corners Ghulam - 16 point, 0.5 SWC - Panzerfaust. Explosive AP rounds with +3 to hit all the way out to 32" You don't want to give that an ARO on you.
Moderators - 9 points. Seriously cheap order and it still has a combi rifle attached. Or the spitfire guy for 0.5swc is great. They also make a very cheap and nasty link-team in the bakunin sectorial.
Witch-soldiers - 14 points. Chain rifle large template. Mimetism! MA L3. Regular but also impetuous so they give your pool an order and get an impetuous order to spend on themselves (a mixed blessing sometimes). Also smoke grenades combo great with somebody else with a MSV.
They're obviously out-classed by a 40 point model, but they're not useless and can provide some useful niche stuff, or just an extra order.
Generally I've only seen them use as points filler, but it depends on how the dice roll. My buddy had a Fusilier go ballistic for 2 turns and took out my veteran kazak, grey rifle, and a line kazak, all of which were in cover.... Crap like that is why I keep losing
Anyone have any luck with the grey rifle out of the stater set? I'm 0-4 with this dude and he generally been absolutely useless. 3 out of the 4 times he gets shot before he get in range and the ONE time he gets in melee range (the crocman dodged the shotguns and I didn't feel like getting into a gun fight with him), the individual getting charged pulls his pistol and crits for an ID. Only thing I really use the grey for now is for his smoke grenade, but there has to be a cheaper way of fielding that item....
On the Pan'O list the only glaring flaws I see is you are sitting at 7 order which is a bit under Par, try to at least hit 8 and you have no hacker but have 2 HI making yourself rather vulnerable to getting immobilized. That being said though, Pan'O hackers aren't the greatest so it may not be worth trying to squeeze one in.
Compared to 40k expect a pretty steep learning curve
As to cheap troops....dont underestimate the horde. When I was playing alot at 250pt level you can field over 20 troops in some of the lower pt cost armies and elite 10 man squads can be hard pressed to deal with so much mass.
I used to always play my Haqqi force with tons of cheap troops and won every single game. Flamethrowers for the win.
Usually with mass you just have to expect to take losses but you have so many guys that losing 10 isnt a huge loss really because how cheap some of them are.
My Haqqi list was usually 3 combat grps- around 24-26 figs depending. Using lots of cheap fodder troopers backed up by a couple really good troops in power armor. Use all the cheap troops to inflict losses then close in with your good troops. You will be surprised at how effect flamethrowers autohitting are. Ya you might lose a guy but oh well you have 20 more.
For Pan O I usually go elite and not more than 10 figs...for Ariadna I went usually with 2 combat grps 16ish figs with lots of camo. With camo you can usually get in close and personal before your discovered thus netrualizing the tech edge other forces have on you.
We used to play alot but have since moved on to mainly Flames of War in my area. Still like infinity just no-one playing it anymore around here.
The cheap troops generate orders, and placed correcting help to provide alot of reaction shots during the opposing players turn. Effective use of your troops is critical in this game. Also have a plan to deal with anything you might face.
Plan to deal with the FO/ missile launching combo, TAGs, Elite infantry. Also what if you face the horde army of 20+ figs?
Those are all considerations. Ive found that even in scenarios in all types of tournament game settings from alot of different systems the games all come down to the same thing, how do you kill the enemy. Yes killing the enemy isnt everything but if you can do that effectively you usually win.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh on a tactics not, if your playing to win never take less than 10 guys. 11 orders is what you want. Juggle the list till you get there.
I will straight up admit that Infinity can be marginally broken by a few horde combos: Preta spam, Morlock spam, Haqq doc spam, etc.This is due to excessively cheap things being listed as total, which I'm a firm believer that nothing should be over AVA 8-10. As a personal rule for any tourney I run I limit the lists to 2 combat groups. Yes, you can beat spam lists with a list tailored against them, but by doing so you are vulnerable to standard lists.
IDK about the hordes being broken...to me it was more the fact that certain weapon systems were broken.
Flamethrowers and Chain rifles make the figure super cheap yet almost guarantee kills. That is the true issue.
If you play with alot of terrain, which you should its very easy to get in range with these weapons, esp assisted by smoke grenade shooting troops.
Then ur 6 pts soldiers are auto hitting even enemy elites. Thats what breaks the game from our experience. An they may miss or you make your armor save then you get to just keep shooting and auto hitting till you die or they do.
It really is almost broken. Esp if your playing against someone that can use those guys in concert with more powerful/skilled models.
Flamethrowers are esp vicious because they can kill 2 wound models with 1 hit due to the continuous saves rule for them.
Try out the horde with auto hit templates with the right back up troops...you will find the list quite nasty.
Template weapons are't the issue, it's hordes WITH template weapons. A template weapon it's self is not broke because by using one you do not generate a face to face roll, thus probably killing yourself in return. When you have 50+ Preta that is no longer an issue.
Limiting it to 2 combat groups means that you can still take 10 preta and a regular list of 10 guys, but 10 preta suicide rushing isn't going to overwhelm the whole enemy side via shear weight of numbers.
That is the standard thought till models start congo lining, Supressive fire will only hit the front model since there is no LoF to the ones behind. Shotguns are another option but they are short range and Haqq are the only ones that can effectively pull off shotgun spam.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To give you an example of what that would look like...
COMBINED ARMY ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
BlueDagger wrote:That is the standard thought till models start congo lining, Supressive fire will only hit the front model since there is no LoF to the ones behind. Shotguns are another option but they are short range and Haqq are the only ones that can effectively pull off shotgun spam.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To give you an example of what that would look like...
COMBINED ARMY ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
That battle table looks small, what size is this supposed to be? does not look as a normal 47x47 inches to me.
and
What should I fear if I have a missile launcher and you just have two regular orders? What happens if I use a monofilament mine in the middle of the map with a Mlaigno or a Naga? What are the chances of warband hordes against a fireteam of djanbazans in a good sniper tower? or just a reaction remote in a bird´s nest?
There are so many tools for the player in this game, there is no ultimate army list.
Haha yeah the scaling is way off, just noticed that I left it at default settings. This just means that the pretas should actually be a lot smaller thus not clogging up lanes as much. they still move up to 12" per turn so that front line can make it to the enemy deployment zone in one turn.
Missile Launcher - Could make a mess of something, but you still have to hit while they dodge and they are moving in coordinated orders of 4 at a time. In those 2 orders they move up to 24". If you wound them without killing them on their first move+move they trigger dogged and still move 6" and chainrifle at a minimum.
Mine - Impetuous movement allows you to move in a way that you can avoid mines. You have a pile of rolls to discover it.
Snipes - You can't cover every avenue of approach with a linked team, and with 4 models you need at least 2 people to have AROs to even get one shot on each, then you still ahve to hit and they still ahve to fail ARM roll.
Reaction Remote - HMG remote gets 4 shots and like the other situations can't cover every lane of fire or you have made terrain fail.
Like I said, if you tailored your list against this with a bunch of reactions, sin-eaters, piles of shotguns etc then you most likely won't do well against other things you may face.
Others that have been brought up in the past
Drop in AD behind them - They have biomines and can pepper the field
Just fire a lot at them - Everytime you shoot any that see you can dodge and all successful advance another 3"
Ninja TO them - Chain Rifled to death
Suppressive fire every lane of approach - Congo line to block LoF or halt yourself
Kill the Lt - have fun playing guess the camo marker while you dodge mines.
Thus my point, horde in mass in a situation like this can effectively break things because the tools they give you to limit ARO in conjunction with incredibly cheap troops throws things for a loop. A simple 2 grp max eliminates this as a threat to tourneys.
Don´t get me wrong. I like the list, I like the idea, and with the actual Hungries miniatures that could look awesome.
But you are talking too proud of this, you are basically saying that the INFINITY rules are broken with this and some newbies could even think that you are right.
Now, If someone give a dollar everytime I heard someone saying that he found the ideal formula for winning in Infinity or any other game... maybe I could have around twenty bucks....
What I can tell you is that that Hungries themed list can be pretty effective until someone comes up with another list and wins. INFINITY is huge in its tactical resources and no one has won a battle writing in a forum.
A friend of mine went to a tournament with Ariadna saying things like "My list is inbeatable", "I have the perfect army" and things like that. He made a good day, but he got his ass kicked by another player as everyone else.
It is not the list, is the decisions you make while playing.
The last thing I want to see is a newbie coming to his third game with his 40K tyrannid army, winning with a preta list and being completely sure that he owns this game without buying a single miniature. That would be an ugly vision.
Oh don't get me wrong the system is nearly flawless, and in the hands of a new player a list like this wouldn't work, but with a vet the list becomes insanely hard to beat. The good thing is that most Infinity vets I know have too much respect for the game to pull a list like this. Playing a list like this is a good way to ensure you don't get played again ;D
Are there any troubles with supplying over at Infinity at this moment? Because I ordered some from an independent retailer a while ago, and they said they were still waiting for theirs to come from Spain, is this just the entire 'small companies with small production' thing?
Well the issue with the horde lists is cost- that 50 preta list costs a fair amount of money, and yes supression fire an such can do well.
However...Terrain should block long lines of fire period if you are playing the game right with the recommended amount of terrain. So all those horde models will easily get within 12 inches unless you are playing on a horrible board that is completely open.
Also I dont play combined and no-one I played ever did either. The horde lists were usually Haqqi or highlanders from ariadna. An the odds of survival with a template weapon that auto hits is actually quite good. Not to mention you are auto hitting your target...that large template is well quite long range and has the ability to hit several models at once.
Take for instance- Armor 1 or 0, you have cover +3 arm, and they still have to roll to hit you with 1 dice. So on average they need a 12 or 13 to hit you. Maybe -3 for cover as well if you moved smartly.
So I move in with a flamethrower vs average troops I move fire to cover as my order. He AROs with shooting to kill me.
FT hit is say Str 13 for Light if I remember right- so auto hit 13 vs his armor of 1 or even +3 for cover means he has a 50% chance of survival or death. Also if I wound he has to save again or take another wound from fire.
His AOR shot= 13- 3 for cover = he only has a 50% chance to hit me...then if he hits I have a Arm 1+3 = a 10+ on a D20 to save vs a Str 13 rifle hit. So another 50% chance to live.
So I walk up hit him automatically and havea 50% kill chance on 1 wound model, and a 25% kill chance on a 2 wound model- two wound model prolly has better armor but you get the point, and yes I have seen flamethrowers drop 2 wound models in one hit several times, esp if they attack from a position in which it doesnt have cover.
His ARO only has a 25% chance to kill me. Not to mention most likely Im fewer points.
Thus the Area of effect weapon rules are currently the problem.
Also as to supression fire, it can still be smoked which reduces your chances to hit models moving thru it. Also its a small template so usually you just use your one long range guy to step out and kill the supressor before the assault troops move in.
If you can be seen you can be killed, one of the main rules in infinity. A player can stack so many order with more dice per order on their turn that if you leave a model exposed they will most likely die unless your dice are extremely lucky.
As I said we used to play alot its been proven out. Your best chance to live on your turn is to not leave any of your models visible so they have to at least spend some orders to get LOS on your guys. before they kill you with more dice. Only lucky dice or criticals- again luck can prevent your models death. Average model gets 3 dice on its turn compared to your models 1 dice, you lose most of the time.
Its still a great game with alot of tactical options, just be warned once people start getting some skill Area of effect weapons are abit overpowering for the current point scale.
Just received my first ever Infinity box set today! The Hassassin Bahram starter pack. Absolutely beautiful little sculpts (the Lasiq with sniper rifle in particular), can't wait to get to work on them
I received my Imperial Service starter and Celestial Guard w/Spitfire and Sniper rifle as well as a box of Galwegians! I still need to wait on a restock of William Wallace and the Caledonian starter and I will be all set.
The miniatures are awesome and hopefully I will try to blog my venture into infinity!
I know right!?! I am dying to find out what is going to be released next aside from the Order Sgt that was shown off by Beast of War last week??
I just wish the warstore would get the Caledonian Starter in as well as the main game books so I could feel more complete...I know the rules are free, I am just dying for the artwork and fluff!!
We just got the rules and starter boxes (I personally got both rule books and a nomad and yu-jing starter) at my LFGS. I demoed a bunch of games this past Friday and Saturday. Everyone that tried it loves it and i hope to grow the interest even more!! LOVE THIS GAME!!
Grrrrr....The war store is still out of stock for both rule books and the Caladonian Starter & Wallace!!! I just want to get the rest of my stuff...so sad...sniff...sniff....
Order it still. Warstore has their store setup so that if you order something that is out of stock they won't bill you till they get it in stock, but the second they get it in they will bill you and send it. Basically like preordering, jsut with delayed billing. They restock seemingly every week so it's a surefire way to get what you want the fastest means possible.
I had a Battle against a new player today. We haven't played against each other before. I was using a sectorial shasvastiis list and he was using generic Yu Jing.
He tricked me like no one has ever tricked in this game before!
When he is deploying his miniatures...
- "Ok, this is my army. Here is a Hsien with HMG, those are Shaolin with chain rifles, this is a Zhanshi Hacker, this is a Celestial guard... and you can see a Guijia over there."
- "Aham... ok. I have here some cammo markers, and this is a Gwailo fireteam... bla bla..."
During the game, one of my miniatures crosses the Line of Fire of the Guijia:
-"Ok, my shasvastii now makes MOVE... any AROs?"
- "No."
- "The Guijia does not make a reaction shot?"
- "Not now."
- "... ? (what is going on here?)..."
Third turn:
- "Ok now I make a combat Jump with a Tiger Soldier here."
- "Wow! you have a lot of cool troops in your list... ahm... wait a minute... 300pts? and you have a Guijia, and a Hsien, and all that stuff?!"
- "(Evil smile)"
- "Wait a minute... why does the Gujia has not performed even a single ARO during the whole... Holoprojector!!! it is a Lu Duan Remote!! Fake TAG!!!!"
We both laughed for a minute. It was a really distracting tactic. The Gujia looks so menacing and it was fake!
I am so Psyched! I started putting together my Galwegians tonight and also placed my order for the main game book, The Caledonian Starter set and Wallace.
Now I will have a 200pt Ariadna army and a 200pt Imperial Service army! I am so psyched! I may start a P&M Blog either here on Dakka or maybe over @ the main Infinity site...
Chaplain Pallantide wrote:I am so Psyched! I started putting together my Galwegians tonight and also placed my order for the main game book, The Caledonian Starter set and Wallace.
Now I will have a 200pt Ariadna army and a 200pt Imperial Service army! I am so psyched! I may start a P&M Blog either here on Dakka or maybe over @ the main Infinity site...
There is a very large shortage of Infinity WIP blogs here on dakka sadly :(
BobbaFett wrote:
- "Wait a minute... why does the Gujia has not performed even a single ARO during the whole... Holoprojector!!! it is a Lu Duan Remote!! Fake TAG!!!!"
The 2 most expensive heavies were actually Hafza. He found out about the first one of them by running up his lunokhod remote so he could hack the 'heavy' The 2nd he didn't find out about till he based him with Bran Do Castro.
So, what looked like 297 points and only one legal lieutenant - the Djanbazan rifle guy (come assassinate me!) actually had a hidden lieutenant and two Heavy Machine Gun toting Ragik drop troops
Delephont wrote:Another awesome month from CB.....seriously, these guys are the BEST
I don´t know if they are the best, the only thing I can write here completely sure about is that every month this high quality photos, terrain, painting, sulptures bring joy to my heart.
Seriously, I´ll be deppressed if this ends some day.
Delephont wrote:Another awesome month from CB.....seriously, these guys are the BEST
I don´t know if they are the best, the only thing I can write here completely sure about is that every month this high quality photos, terrain, painting, sulptures bring joy to my heart.
Seriously, I´ll be deppressed if this ends some day.
When it comes to Sci-Fi miniatures anyway, I think you can be fairly confident that they are the best! They've won TTG's Sci-Fi mini of the year 3 years in a row now, and I wouldn't bet against them making it four!
Quick rules question! For different things that make you take multiple ARM rolls (like DA and EXP ammo), does the model take a wound for each ARM roll they fail? or is it just multiple attempts to take 1 wound?
A wound for each failed armour roll. So an explosive round can cause 3 wounds with one hit.
Remember that with most forms of ammo a single wound only makes you unconcious, so doing more than one wound with a single hit can be useful even against single wound models - no healing them. It also does a nice job on Dogged and No Wound Incapacitation.
Haha yeah multiple saves = possibly more then one wound. However this is usually counter balanced that these types of ammos have less shots then some other special weapons, thus FtF rolls get harder in your reactive phase. Without a linked team bonus a Missile launcher is only one shot... but god help you if it lands.
I finally received my order the other day! The main Rule book, which is incredible! I love the layout, the feel the new book smell! I also received the Caladonian Starter and Wallace as well. I have to file/sand one more Caladonian Volunteer with Rifle and my Ariadna force is done.
The Imperial Service starter still needs some work, I tackled the tougher 2 miniatures first, The Pheasant Agent and the Hsien. I still have the Wu Ming and 4 Celestial guards to put together, then it's time to try the game out! When I get the miniatures all assembled, I'll try to do a blog here on Dakka as well as on the main Infinity boards.
Am I the only person who thinks Linked units are the most under utilized and most broken thing in the game? My usual list looks like this
HASSASSIN BAHRAM ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 (Regs: 10/Irrs: 0):
FARZAN Boarding Shotgun, Contender / Pistol, Knife (32) MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:14 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Religious Troop, Chain of Command
Yeah, linked teams are hella scary till you figure out their weaknesses.
Active Turn - Fire at an angle to the link leader that only provokes and ARO from him, once he is down the linked team is back to just a bunch of guys.
Reactive Turn - You can only fire with the linked leader, and while he has an increased burst and sometimes a +3 BS, he can still be taken down just like all the other nasties.
They do, but if you fire out of LoF of the others then you prevent them from doing so. If you fire from the rear the one that gets shot at can react thanks to Sixth Sense level 2 but not the rest.
Typically though you can use a sniper or HMG to get a clean shot from the side of a building or terrain to just see the one or maybe two targets you want to fire at. Typically it's rather hard to have all 3-5 members of a link team in cover facing upfield without either bunching up or really exposing yourself.
If you use long range weapons too vs, say, a multi-rifle or combi rifle you can try to use range to mitigate the risk by goign for your +3 range while their -3 or -6 range.
Templates are the enemy of linked teams. Once they've faces a boarding shotgun or a grenade or two etc. people soon realise they're not all they're cracked up to be and aren't as broken as people initially think. Like everything in Infinity the reward is equal to the risk and thats why we all love it so much.
Cheerleader linked teams - Shoot them at long range where they will typically have a penalty on top of their typically bad BS Heavy Infantry linked teams - Hack the bejesus out of them
Another fun thing to remember is when they declare an order only the leader can shoot, so if he declares shoot then ignore the leader to just shoot a shot at each of his helpless buddies
Another fun thing to remember is when they declare an order only the leader can shoot, so if he declares shoot then ignore the leader to just shoot a shot at each of his helpless buddies
THAT is the biggest downside to linked teams, usually...
Yep, that is why you have to remember that a Link Team is not an "uberorz roll up field eat face" but rather a means to get guys from point A to point B order efficiently while boosting their means to hold said point B.
Thanks BlueDagger again for a really useful advice
Got my ass kicked last night by a Magister Knights linked team - I hacked one of them, flamed a few, but because they got 2 wounds it's really hard to kill.
(remember in the main forum that I was asking about f2f roll with E/M grenade launcher - I shot, I missed :( )
Next time I'll try your techniques
- take down the leader
- ARO shoot their useless team members (so if they dodge, cool, can't shoot me back)
Do you guys have any pointers for someone about to start playing Combined? I've downloaded all the lists (normal and Human Sphere), but I've yet to develop an intuitive feel for how a unit will perform or how it needs to be played just by looking at it's stats alone.
Ah I play CA too so here is a few observation
CA is expensive, very very expensive, and so you have little model count
Don't count on armor value, Morat PHY can compensate for for that by well dodging, Shavaasti can vomit larvae or have no wound incap/Auto Medi
CA unless in sectorial have no linkable troop
The Starter Box is good, replace the Malignos with another Morat, and the Charontid with the yet unreleased Sogarat, and walaa a Morat Sectorial list
For Unit, you want to take a look on
-Equipment (HMG is good)
-CC/BS either one , these will be the primary function
-WIP for your lietunant
-Armor
-Wound/STR -PHY (to do stuff , like climb, dodge)
Retrias wrote:Ah I play CA too so here is a few observation
CA is expensive, very very expensive, and so you have little model count
Don't count on armor value, Morat PHY can compensate for for that by well dodging, Shavaasti can vomit larvae or have no wound incap/Auto Medi
CA unless in sectorial have no linkable troop
The Starter Box is good, replace the Malignos with another Morat, and the Charontid with the yet unreleased Sogarat, and walaa a Morat Sectorial list
For Unit, you want to take a look on
-Equipment (HMG is good)
-CC/BS either one , these will be the primary function
-WIP for your lietunant
-Armor
-Wound/STR -PHY (to do stuff , like climb, dodge)
Thank you kindly. I was afraid someone was going to mention Morat. I really don't care for the models at all (Kurgat, Yaogat etc. are cool though). Guess I could just bypass that by using another ***gat unit as a proxy for them. I'll most likely never attend an official tourney/gamesday or whatever anyway.
Thank you kindly. I was afraid someone was going to mention Morat. I really don't care for the models at all (Kurgat, Yaogat etc. are cool though). Guess I could just bypass that by using another ***gat unit as a proxy for them. I'll most likely never attend an official tourney/gamesday or whatever anyway.
How is so?, sure if you like stealth instead of Brute Force Shavaasti is better, butif you like the opposite, the Morat is way better, Shavaasti have little in terms of staying power
Retrias wrote:How is so?, sure if you like stealth instead of Brute Force Shavaasti is better, butif you like the opposite, the Morat is way better, Shavaasti have little in terms of staying power
Thats way, staying power dosen't matter if they never shot get to shot back. Plus I like the model line better, then the old stand by of talking Apes. Then with the new Planet of the Apes coming out, there going to be enough flithy ape running around.
Retrias wrote:So the old standby of "insect like aliens" doesn't matter to you? So you are saying that in every game you will never be shot at .....
Wow, take things a little serious do you. I also feild a all Morat force aswell as my all Shasvast force. I was responding to someone saying the dislike most of the Morat force, and having a little fun. Maybe a sense of humor, is need here.
The latest Morat miniatures are way better than the first ones. CB should keep the mask in all the upcoming Morat units. They just look cooler when masked, because the baboon faces are not attractive.
By the way, I do not like the Morats as a competitive Army. IMHO they are the worst army.
Their skirmisher, Zerat, is the worst infiltrating unit.
Their para-troop, Rasyat, is too expensive in points cost to risk him with a combat jump.
Their line troop is expensive.
Sure they have some important points with their racial rules and good fireteams, but... If I go to a tournament with the ambition of winning... I will not use Morats.
BobbaFett wrote:The latest Morat miniatures are way better than the first ones. CB should keep the mask in all the upcoming Morat units. They just look cooler when masked, because the baboon faces are not attractive.
By the way, I do not like the Morats as a competitive Army. IMHO they are the worst army.
Their skirmisher, Zerat, is the worst infiltrating unit.
Their para-troop, Rasyat, is too expensive in points cost to risk him with a combat jump.
Their line troop is expensive.
Sure they have some important points with their racial rules and good fireteams, but... If I go to a tournament with the ambition of winning... I will not use Morats.
haha I thought this exact same thing, the big thing they have for them though is staying power. In a kill mission that isn't horribly impressive, but when you throw missions into the mix with a single list tourney, you would be surprised.
BobbaFett wrote:The latest Morat miniatures are way better than the first ones. CB should keep the mask in all the upcoming Morat units. They just look cooler when masked, because the baboon faces are not attractive.
BobbaFett wrote:The latest Morat miniatures are way better than the first ones. CB should keep the mask in all the upcoming Morat units. They just look cooler when masked, because the baboon faces are not attractive.
Agreed, although the unmasked Yaogat actually look cool. Ugly doesn't need to be bad. The Locusts from Gears of War are a good example of cool and ugly.
Do you guys (who actually use any Morat units) prefer Yaogats or Kurgats? Or maybe you use them both? I do understand that engineers have a special role, but if you just compared their effectiveness in battle vs. points cost. Would you go with a Yaogat w. Panzerfaust or Kurgat with Autocannon for example?
Inanimate wrote:Do you guys (who actually use any Morat units) prefer Yaogats or Kurgats? Or maybe you use them both? I do understand that engineers have a special role, but if you just compared their effectiveness in battle vs. points cost. Would you go with a Yaogat w. Panzerfaust or Kurgat with Autocannon for example?
Any troop with the MSV L2 is essential to an army list. Yaogats for the WIN!
Inanimate wrote:Do you guys (who actually use any Morat units) prefer Yaogats or Kurgats? Or maybe you use them both? I do understand that engineers have a special role, but if you just compared their effectiveness in battle vs. points cost. Would you go with a Yaogat w. Panzerfaust or Kurgat with Autocannon for example?
Any troop with the MSV L2 is essential to an army list. Yaogats for the WIN!
Good point. I'll place an order for a box of "Yogurts" then.
@BlueDagger:
Ok. I won't be fielding anything big to begin with. Is there even a model for the Raicho? Can't find anything. :S
Naw there is no model for it yet and prob won't be for a while. As per official tourney rules, if there is a hole in the model line you can proxy it with any similarly equipped/size model. Plus, who doesn't love having an Avatar around
BlueDagger wrote:Naw there is no model for it yet and prob won't be for a while. As per official tourney rules, if there is a hole in the model line you can proxy it with any similarly equipped/size model. Plus, who doesn't love having an Avatar around
I see. How big is that thing anyway? If that base is a 40 mm, then it looks to be close to 10-12 cm in height. It must look effing huge next to regular infantry.
So I'm looking at Pan-O to start with here, specifically the Shock Army starter.
Game play is a secondary concern...realistically very secondary considering "time for gaming" slice on my daily schedule pie chart is invisible to the naked eye. Nevertheless, it's not something I want to ignore. Are Pan-O...boring? They don't seem to have the fun/tricky units that other factions do, just various levels of infantry.
Obviously this is me just looking at the unit descriptions, with no knowledge of the rules beyond some YouTube videos watched over a year ago.
Any Pan-O tid-bits (with a Shock Army starter slant) would be appreciated.
Hey Guys
Just got my second starter set of Infinity for a really great price from http://www.warbunka.com They have free shipping to the UK as well at the moment!!
I was wondering does anyone else here play Infinity? If so has any one got suggestions for Terrain? As Infinity is a very tactical game relying on Terrain.
For anyone who has not heard of this game then check it out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogtjm7UspSQ
souldrinker-blue wrote:Hey Guys
Just got my second starter set of Infinity for a really great price from http://www.warbunka.com They have free shipping to the UK as well at the moment!!
I was wondering does anyone else here play Infinity? If so has any one got suggestions for Terrain? As Infinity is a very tactical game relying on Terrain.
For anyone who has not heard of this game then check it out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogtjm7UspSQ
Great price? Looks like a pretty standard online retail price.....Maelstrom and Arcance do a similar price.....and with free shipping. Warbunka looks like a new webstore....with online stores, unless the bargains are VERY attractive, and once I disengage my "distrust" chip, I tend to stick to well known vendors.
Vertrucio wrote:Is there someplace online I can find the contents of the starter boxes pointed out?
A bunch of people at my FLGS are willing to give the game a shot, but I need to demo it for them.
I'm guessing all the starter box armies just have rifles of some sort, so I don't need to add points for the special weapons?
they most likely have all rifles and one or two "things" they are all legal and correctly configured though, most is at 150 points, so they got 3 SWC
Except for most having CombiRifle, there very differnt. Some have Sniper Rifle, one even has a Hacker in the starter (Stay away from Hackers to start), 2 or 3 starter can't even be fielded as a legal force, and point range from 120ish pts to close to 200 pts. Your best bet is to use the Army Builder on the Infinity site and the online Corvus Belli store has a list of the models and what the armed with in each of the starter.
While the generic faction starter packs have some kind of logic (all basic weapons, similar structure..) the sectorial starter packs are more like "Lets put all these previously released miniatures in a box".
There you find some odd combinations: The Shasvastii box does not have any miniature that can be used as Lt.
Good luck, remember to start small 75-150pts and try to keep units as vanilla as possible. This will let you focus more on the core mechanics rather then the special rules.
If I did Ariadna it would be a seriously hard tossup. The werewolves are cool, but the metros are some seriously beautiful models... however french they may be lol
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
COMBINED ARMY
SHROUDED Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
50x PRETA Chain Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines (Biomines) / CCW
NOMADS
INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW
2x SPEKTR MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife
PROWLER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, CCW
ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife
HELLCAT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife
CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Zero-V Smoke Grenades / Viral CCW
HASSASSIN BAHRAM
FARZAN Boarding Shotgun, Contender / Pistol, Knife (32)
3x MUYIB Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (25 | 0.5)
RAGIK HMG / Pistol, CCW (38 | 1.5)
LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife (29 | 1.5)
FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW (34)
AL-DJABEL Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW (41)
Great price? Looks like a pretty standard online retail price.....Maelstrom and Arcance do a similar price.....and with free shipping. Warbunka looks like a new webstore....with online stores, unless the bargains are VERY attractive, and once I disengage my "distrust" chip, I tend to stick to well known vendors.