I have heard from a few friends that the Tau will be getting a new codex either in June or in August. They can't remember where they read it other than "online" (sounds fishy to me too) but it still has me curious. Has anybody heard anything about it at all or are they blowing smoke to taunt me since I love playing my Tau?

Yeah, there has been some murmurs about a Tau revision coming this year. I suspect it'll be another quite update like it was when Tau became Tau Empire.

I hope so. Some new Crisis Suits or, at the very least, non-hybrid Broadsides would be greatly appreciated.

Here's to hoping that the Tau become the Dogs of War of 40k!

Like at least 5 additional races (Slann, Squats/Demiurg, and others) that can be used.

Oh and Mercenaries.

Then all will be right with the world.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Here's to hoping that the Tau become the Dogs of War of 40k!

Like at least 5 additional races (Slann, Squats/Demiurg, and others) that can be used.

Oh and Mercenaries.

Then all will be right with the world.

Wow. I would actually consider playing Tau if I could have Squats.

It would be the far less awsome Demiurgs if anything.

Yeah, I heard about the new Tau, there was even someone here on Dakka who had images of a new tank. Unfortunately, he was threatened by GW that they'd sue him if he didn't remove the pics. But be on the look-out, because they are definately coming.

Yeah, I heard about the new Tau, there was even someone here on Dakka who had images of a new tank. Unfortunately, he was threatened by GW that they'd sue him if he didn't remove the pics. But be on the look-out, because they are definately coming.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Here's to hoping that the Tau become the Dogs of War of 40k!

Yeah! Then GW can completely remove all support in a few years!


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Back on-topic: I wouldn't expect Tau to get a new release over the summer, but I'd bet that they're on the way. I'd say a year away, at the most.

Paladin Blake wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Here's to hoping that the Tau become the Dogs of War of 40k!

Yeah! Then GW can completely remove all support in a few years!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back on-topic: I wouldn't expect Tau to get a new release over the summer, but I'd bet that they're on the way. I'd say a year away, at the most.

It all depends on what they do. A digital scan of the Forge World suits wouldn't take too much effort, nor would incorporating Forge World units into the codex proper.

Tim the Biovore wrote:Yeah, I heard about the new Tau, there was even someone here on Dakka who had images of a new tank. Unfortunately, he was threatened by GW that they'd sue him if he didn't remove the pics. But be on the look-out, because they are definitely coming.

They need one, so they're definitely coming. Soon? That's the real trick, isn't it? There's been much speculation about a new Inq codex coming out, and if it does it's supposed to come out over the summer, so I don't think Tau are coming out over the summer. Fall, I might believe though. They need one really bad, and GW's gotta start on the xeno codices sooner or later. Seriously, how many imperial armies are left out there, anyway?

That makes sense, because I'll probably be done painting my Tau by time the new codex comes out and then I'll have to buy some new minis and the army will stay unfinished...

I'm not sure even GW knows for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a bunch of stuff mostly ready to go for the Tau, but it all comes down to the economics of the situation.

not sure if I want a new tank vs some power weapons or other options for the suits. Maybe cheaper markerlights or make them vehicle oriented (vs just the skyray).

We've seen the new sculpt Pathfinders(which I can only hope are plastic) and the test model of the 'new' Farsight styled Crisis Suit.

Both are cool, but man would I love to see Pathfinders with desert warfare styled cloaks.

Kanluwen wrote:We've seen the new sculpt Pathfinders(which I can only hope are plastic) and the test model of the 'new' Farsight styled Crisis Suit.

Both are cool, but man would I love to see Pathfinders with desert warfare styled cloaks.

Links to the pics? A quick search revealed nada. Plastic pathfinders = me likey

I have no clue where they are, to be honest.

And no clue if they're plastic or not, but they were definitely new sculpts of Pathfinders. They looked more...well, Fire Warrior-y.


Automatically Appended Next Post:




That's what I'm referring to. Not my photos, but rehosting them for convenience's sake.

It was a Fire Warrior Commander and, like the Farsight model, they were test-sculpts, not production releases.

Pity too, as the Farsight was awesome.

Whatever happened to the crisis suit pilot and kroot shaper that were promised for the collectors line? I haven't heard a word about those in months.

The Tau codex needs a major re-write to introduce a range of characters, special rules or at least revised rules and points to make them more shooty and mobile while still crap in H2H.

If GW want to stick with the basic idea that Tau are not allowed to have any H2H help, any alien allies introduced will be for colour only.

If GW don't think Tau can be a major sales line they won't bother with a complete re-write.

Without a major re-write Tau won't be a major sales line.

Plastic Vespids that match the pic in the codex i.e. they should actually look like bugs. None of that pointy head rubbish.

Im going to be in nottingham in a fortnight.. Ill keep my ears peeled and..

I will ask

Flashman wrote:Plastic Vespids that match the pic in the codex i.e. they should actually look like bugs. None of that pointy head rubbish.

No-one uses Vespids ATM. I agree the models are horrible but plastic Vespids won't sell without decent rules.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Flashman wrote:Plastic Vespids that match the pic in the codex i.e. they should actually look like bugs. None of that pointy head rubbish.

No-one uses Vespids ATM. I agree the models are horrible but plastic Vespids won't sell without decent rules.

Meh, I am a fan of rubbish fast attack choices. Currently shopping for Swooping Hawks on ebay

The tau only need a small update... lets see

- Fix up loose ends with 4th editon relating rules (target priority, etc)
- Tweeks with units here and there...
- 100% plastic broadsides and plastic pathfinders, those are the major 2 we are in dire need of.

That's about it, nothing seriously new or fancy, just fix them imho... of course... more choices in the tau army would be nice..

PS: I would KILL for that farsight model ;p

You know, I really liked the target priority rule. Why was that ditched anyway?

Superscope wrote:The tau only need a small update... lets see

- Fix up loose ends with 4th editon relating rules (target priority, etc)
- Tweeks with units here and there...
- 100% plastic broadsides and plastic pathfinders, those are the major 2 we are in dire need of.

That's about it, nothing seriously new or fancy, just fix them imho... of course... more choices in the tau army would be nice..

PS: I would KILL for that farsight model ;p

When you look at the amount of stuff in the SM, Ork, Tyranid, IG or SW codex compared to the Tau codex, it's clear the Tau (and the whole game) could benefit from a major rewrite.

Flashman wrote:You know, I really liked the target priority rule. Why was that ditched anyway?

Little Jervis and the Marine players couldn't figure it out.

Flashman wrote:You know, I really liked the target priority rule. Why was that ditched anyway?

(A) Simplicity.
(B) The Tau were nearly the only faction without easy access to Ld10 which made the rule fairly irrelevant.

Hmm... GW's driving need to turn 40K into a game for six year olds aside, maybe it could have been changed to an initiative test instead?

Dull witted armies such as Orks would be more likely to fire at the first thing they saw. Whereas Space Marines who have a greater awareness of the whole battlefield situation would be more likely to pick out important targets.

Just my musings anyway. Back on topic!

They need to redo the ethereal models. They should also make it available to have total kroot army.

They redid all the Ethereal models last time. They went from the old, dignified ones to the Emperor Ming of Mongo look.

I don't know how well they sold.

Kilkrazy wrote:They redid all the Ethereal models last time. They went from the old, dignified ones to the Emperor Ming of Mongo look.

I don't know how well they sold.

Hopefully not well, or even better, not at all.

The ONLY way GW 'get's the message' is via the Wallet Vote.

Those things were fugly in the extreme.

(Also, added a "?" to the thread title - though I'm so proud of everyone for avoiding the usual Nerd Rage over lack of said "?"! Brings a tear to my eye!)

salamander man wrote:They need to redo the ethereal models. They should also make it available to have total kroot army.

IMHO, I don't think Ethereal belong on the battle field any how. All they are good for is re-rolling Ld tests and getting the Tau to hate you if you kill them. Oh and don't for get for pissing off SC, be it making them breakaway form the Tau (Farsight) or hate humans (Longknife).

As for the Kroot they need to teach the Tau how to fight H2H. Even one actual Tau assault unit would be killer /w power weapons would make the codex. If Tau can come up with a S10 AP1 gun with a 72" range in 6000 year they should be able to see that they will need to get there hands dirty and get in someones face.

Ok I am ending my rant against my new army, but new dex in 2010 sweet.

Alternatively, combat drones equipped with force circular saws and poison flechette dischargers.

salamander man wrote:They need to redo the ethereal models. They should also make it available to have total kroot army.

I actually like the idea of an all kroot army. In the fluff it talks about the Kroot being the biggest members of the Tau empire besides the Tau themselves so at the very least I would like to see the kroot further integrated into the army. They talk about kroot vehicles but we never see them. The only problem I forsee is that it would be a little ridiculous to see trained veteran fire warrior teams being led by kroot shapers.

Of all the races, Tau offer the most opportunity for change in the codex and added units/weird races. Because GW will be led by the fluff in these things (no bad thing) the tau will gradually start to become more 'grimdark' as time progresses and they encounter more things like daemons and necrons etc (the bit in the tyranid book about the tau welcoming the necrons to their world after the necrons destroyed the attacking tyranids, only to then get 'harvested' by the metal buggers was quite funny).

You guys have given me hope. If we are all lucky they will change the vespid to be more assault oriented. Then they can be useful. Seriously if they can dig out those crystals then they can dig through some armor. >.<

Here some more pics of unreleased Tau Empire miniatures:

First the Battlesuit pilot:




Then the Kroot Shaper:

Painted:


Farsight model:


Better Battlesuit pic:


All models might be show pieces not meant for release, but we have to see.

BTW Pathfinder models are slotta based like metal models.
And many people hope for a plastic Tetra.

(First three pics from freebooters.org, last three from Warseer)

I just want plastic pathfinders, and non-hybrid broadside models.

It would be nice to have a Kroot Master Shaper HQ choice that overrides the 1+ FCW limit to allow for all Kroot armies.

I don't want more alien races as I prefer to play a Tau army, not a Tau Empire army, but I understand I'm in the minority there.

Yes, everyone else wants a new unit of catgirls in school uniforms with katanas

chaplaingrabthar wrote:It would be nice to have a Kroot Master Shaper HQ choice that overrides the 1+ FCW limit to allow for all Kroot armies.

You won't get a 'Kroot Master Shaper' HQ entry. You'll get a new Special Character that does that though.

And for the love of the greater good farsight can take crisis suits as troops damn it! i want my 100% battlesuit army!!

Superscope wrote:And for the love of the greater good farsight can take crisis suits as troops damn it! i want my 100% battlesuit army!!

QFT and in a normal game with Farsight it is a pain to get higher points in a single detachment.

Hell unless they change drastically just move Stealth Suits to troop in general...

Jack

Flashman wrote:Hmm... GW's driving need to turn 40K into a game for six year olds aside, maybe it could have been changed to an initiative test instead?

Dull witted armies such as Orks would be more likely to fire at the first thing they saw. Whereas Space Marines who have a greater awareness of the whole battlefield situation would be more likely to pick out important targets.

Just my musings anyway. Back on topic!

lol, have you ever looked at a tau codex or played against them? the tau have the worst initiative in the game (or at least tied with necrons for the title). that change wouldn't help them one bit. so, they're an army composed of warriors who venerate shooting as the preferred combat tactic yet they can only NOT shoot the closest target 1/3 of the time? i'm glad that rule is gone. it needlessly slows the game down.

Kilkrazy wrote:



No-one uses Vespids ATM.

I use vespids, with near 90% chances of success. Excellent when used as a fast defensive unit with markerlight support, I have downed about as much MEQ units as my helios teams have with these buggers. Most people just don't know how to use them properly is all.

One of the few things I would like to see in a new codex is a failsafe drone, it basically protects units by ramming and exploding into assaulters just before they would attack in melee.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Flashman wrote:You know, I really liked the target priority rule. Why was that ditched anyway?

(A) Simplicity.
(B) The Tau were nearly the only faction without easy access to Ld10 which made the rule fairly irrelevant.

Oh, so the equivalent from this edition is pinning?

Man, I recently looked at the current Tau 'dex and I have to say that it is quite possibly the most counter-intuitive 'dex I have ever seen, and the only 'dexs I don't own currently are the Inq. I hope to god that the rewrite is coming soon as I actually find the Tau quite interesting.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:It would be nice to have a Kroot Master Shaper HQ choice that overrides the 1+ FCW limit to allow for all Kroot armies.

You won't get a 'Kroot Master Shaper' HQ entry. You'll get a new Special Character that does that though.

I use 0 Kroot so it wouldn't affect me any, but even that stop-gap would work. I'd like the return of Anghor Prok to the fluff of the Empire.

Old style legs on those suits. Really wish they'd move closer to what FW has been doing lately.

I would expect a new Dex, assuming they do one, either in 2011 or 2012. Probably just before they introduce a new rule set which will make the new Tau dex obsolete again!

Areas that I really think the Tau need help:

1) Reduce point cost on most if not all units.
2) Clarify rules. A GW weakness, so not hopeful. Ask Tyranid players if you disagree.
3) Some anti-psyker ability. Unlikely.
4) Some serious HTH ability. Unlikely.
5) Increased firepower. The Tau are behind the curve now since their HTH is not great.
6) Some way of improving LDR if not Init.
7) Replace the XV8 model. The current model is now in a bad state and often comes warped.
8) New models would be nice. The XV9 is expensive in points. I sincerely hope this will not be the trend. There is talk of an XV5 or 6.
9) Plastic Vespeds and Pathfinders at a minimum.
The list goes on but it is pointless to continue. Tau are a fun army to play and can give anyone a good game but it is not a serious contender in tournaments. Surprises do happen though.

Kroothawk wrote:Yes, everyone else wants a new unit of catgirls in school uniforms with katanas

Do want.

Oompa loompa, doompity doo,
I wouldn't hit that
And neither should you.

Oompa loompa, doompity dee,
If you are smart
You'll listen to me.

What do you get
When your codex is bland?

How does it feel to
Buy all secondhand?

When could they possibly
write a new dex,

I don't. Have. A cluuueee.

*Its all about accoooouuuntants!*

Oompa Loompa doompity doo,
I don't have hope
and neither should you.

Good start for conversions by Hasslefree Miniatures (and biggest enemy of the Venomthrope ):


Also on everyone's wishlist: This Shadowsun model :

Kroothawk wrote:

Actually, that's a pretty sweet figure.

Did you start with a Lelith Hesperex model from the Dark Eldar line or something different.

When worlds collide... look out!

(Still, that is a nice conversion!)

horsa wrote:I would expect a new Dex, assuming they do one, either in 2011 or 2012. Probably just before they introduce a new rule set which will make the new Tau dex obsolete again!

Areas that I really think the Tau need help:

1) Reduce point cost on most if not all units.
2) Clarify rules. A GW weakness, so not hopeful. Ask Tyranid players if you disagree.
3) Some anti-psyker ability. Unlikely.
4) Some serious HTH ability. Unlikely.
5) Increased firepower. The Tau are behind the curve now since their HTH is not great.
6) Some way of improving LDR if not Init.
7) Replace the XV8 model. The current model is now in a bad state and often comes warped.
8) New models would be nice. The XV9 is expensive in points. I sincerely hope this will not be the trend. There is talk of an XV5 or 6.
9) Plastic Vespeds and Pathfinders at a minimum.
The list goes on but it is pointless to continue. Tau are a fun army to play and can give anyone a good game but it is not a serious contender in tournaments. Surprises do happen though.

Soooo...in a nutshell give the Tau new units to counteract every single one of their weaknesses,improve on their strengths,and drop the points cost on everything?

Whatever1 wrote:

horsa wrote:I would expect a new Dex, assuming they do one, either in 2011 or 2012. Probably just before they introduce a new rule set which will make the new Tau dex obsolete again!

Areas that I really think the Tau need help:

1) Reduce point cost on most if not all units.
2) Clarify rules. A GW weakness, so not hopeful. Ask Tyranid players if you disagree.
3) Some anti-psyker ability. Unlikely.
4) Some serious HTH ability. Unlikely.
5) Increased firepower. The Tau are behind the curve now since their HTH is not great.
6) Some way of improving LDR if not Init.
7) Replace the XV8 model. The current model is now in a bad state and often comes warped.
8) New models would be nice. The XV9 is expensive in points. I sincerely hope this will not be the trend. There is talk of an XV5 or 6.
9) Plastic Vespeds and Pathfinders at a minimum.
The list goes on but it is pointless to continue. Tau are a fun army to play and can give anyone a good game but it is not a serious contender in tournaments. Surprises do happen though.

Soooo...in a nutshell give the Tau new units to counteract every single one of their weaknesses,improve on their strengths,and drop the points cost on everything?

Sounds good to me, and it even sounds like what they did to the nids but I could be wrong because I just fight nids. And an idea for the assault troops, catgirls with Furious Charge USR to represent the awesome power of a glump (AKA running hug of doom).

Wait, you want everything cheaper but be better at shooting, HTH, have better LD, better anti psyker and better Init.

Yeah, I can see how that makes any sense. Make everything cheaper and better!

Like they need better firepower! I see vet Tau players still whomping tables all the time. If anything players these days know nothing about Tau, so their players almost have an advantage.

Vet Tau players can whomp tables against newbies with any army. Ditto for any Vet with any army against a newbie.

However that sort of thing is quite local. Tau are clearly doing worse on the Tournament scene than before 5e.

The reasons are easy to see; worst initiative combined with worst H2H, worst Ld, and their advantages partly wiped out by changes in 5e. High points costs compared to 5e dexes.

I agree all the weaknesses should not be eliminated. Tau would stop being Tau if they got good at H2H. However, there are definite problems with the army which need to be addressed in a new codex. And, a clear weakness in H2H needs to be balanced with an extra dose of something in another area.

Kilkrazy wrote:Vet Tau players can whomp tables against newbies with any army. Ditto for any Vet with any army against a newbie.

However that sort of thing is quite local. Tau are clearly doing worse on the Tournament scene than before 5e.

The reasons are easy to see; worst initiative combined with worst H2H, worst Ld, and their advantages partly wiped out by changes in 5e. High points costs compared to 5e dexes.

I agree all the weaknesses should not be eliminated. Tau would stop being Tau if they got good at H2H. However, there are definite problems with the army which need to be addressed in a new codex. And, a clear weakness in H2H needs to be balanced with an extra dose of something in another area.

So,in a nutshell,they're hurting in the tournament environment against 5th edition codices...just like pretty much every other army running out of a 3rd or 4th edition codex?

The vast majority of 40k players aren't tournament players,so while they may be suffering somewhat in tourney play,they're still competitive in casual/recreational games.

Like I said,naturally,they're hurting against 5th edition 'dexes,but are they that much worse off than CSM,Eldar,DA,BT,Necrons,DH,WH,or DE? I'd put Tau behind Eldar and CSM and definately ahead of DA,'crons,DH,WH,and DE. Do they need a buff compared to 5th ed 'dexes? Yes,of course they do,but so does everybody else. Do they need a buff compared to the other armies waiting for their 5th ed dex? No,not really.

Whatever1 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Vet Tau players can whomp tables against newbies with any army. Ditto for any Vet with any army against a newbie.

However that sort of thing is quite local. Tau are clearly doing worse on the Tournament scene than before 5e.

The reasons are easy to see; worst initiative combined with worst H2H, worst Ld, and their advantages partly wiped out by changes in 5e. High points costs compared to 5e dexes.

I agree all the weaknesses should not be eliminated. Tau would stop being Tau if they got good at H2H. However, there are definite problems with the army which need to be addressed in a new codex. And, a clear weakness in H2H needs to be balanced with an extra dose of something in another area.

So,in a nutshell,they're hurting in the tournament environment against 5th edition codices...just like pretty much every other army running out of a 3rd or 4th edition codex?

The vast majority of 40k players aren't tournament players,so while they may be suffering somewhat in tourney play,they're still competitive in casual/recreational games.

Like I said,naturally,they're hurting against 5th edition 'dexes,but are they that much worse off than CSM,Eldar,DA,BT,Necrons,DH,WH,or DE? I'd put Tau behind Eldar and CSM and definately ahead of DA,'crons,DH,WH,and DE. Do they need a buff compared to 5th ed 'dexes? Yes,of course they do,but so does everybody else. Do they need a buff compared to the other armies waiting for their 5th ed dex? No,not really.

It's funny how everyone who says their army is lacking would like to put their dex at the point between books that do quite well but at the front of those in desperate need of an update, those that existed back in the time before the long, long ago.

A possibility of a new Farsight model is all I seem to be able to take from this . . . I can see a new sig coming on if they do . . . the history of O'shovah . . . by Oshova . . . The illiterate brother =p

Oshova

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:Seriously, how many imperial armies are left out there, anyway?

If they ever run out they'll just make up new ones.

"Hey Space Marine players, we here at the studio realized that the Salamanders and White Scars aren't all that 'codex' after all, so they'll be getting their own shortly! Get ready for the long-awaited and much-deserved Space Marine love we have planned (and give us all your money) this summer! For the Emperor!

And if that's not enough then be on the look-out for the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists this fall! We have something in the works for everyone [who plays Marines], stay tuned!"

juraigamer wrote:Most people just don't know how to use them properly is all.

lolz, I love this attitude that Vespid-users have. Vespid are awesome, every other Tau player is just too stupid to make them work.



The fact that you've apparently had success with them doesn't mean they aren't a crap unit.

Whatever1 wrote:The vast majority of 40k players aren't tournament players,so while they may be suffering somewhat in tourney play,they're still competitive in casual/recreational games.

...ermm..."competitive" does not equal "casual/recreational".

Whatever1 wrote:I'd put Tau behind Eldar and CSM

Both of those books came out after Tau Empire, though. Why should they take precedence?

Whatever1 wrote:and definately ahead of DA,'crons,DH,WH,and DE.

Now that makes no sense, all of those books (especially Necrons) are needing updates pretty badly as they're 3rd edition codices. Well, except DA, but DA are so bad they should get one anyway just to make up for the gakky job that Jervis did.

I agree wholeheartedly that Tau need a new Codex...

Just not before DE/Necrons.


The Idea of more to the "Tau Empire" would be pretty neat as well, IMO.

Sidstyler wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:I'd put Tau behind Eldar and CSM

Both of those books came out after Tau Empire, though. Why should they take precedence?

they're more fun at parties and bring better booze maybe

Sidstyler wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:The vast majority of 40k players aren't tournament players,so while they may be suffering somewhat in tourney play,they're still competitive in casual/recreational games.

...ermm..."competitive" does not equal "casual/recreational".

Whatever1 wrote:I'd put Tau behind Eldar and CSM

Both of those books came out after Tau Empire, though. Why should they take precedence?

Whatever1 wrote:and definately ahead of DA,'crons,DH,WH,and DE.

Now that makes no sense, all of those books (especially Necrons) are needing updates pretty badly as they're 3rd edition codices. Well, except DA, but DA are so bad they should get one anyway just to make up for the gakky job that Jervis did.

How do you mean competitive doesn't equal casual/rec? The current Tau list still plays well in the typical playing environment. Now,for tourney play,they're a bit underpowered,but then again,so are most of the codices from 3rd/4th.

I probably should've worded that better. I meant as far as POWER LEVEL goes,not in what order the books should come out in. I think Tau are worse than Eldar and CSM,on par with BT,and better than DA,Necrons,DH,WH,and DE at this point in time,but I can see where the confusion came from. My bad.

Necrons are completely hosed at this point in time. I see people struggling to win games even in a casual environment with them. Most people around where I live have either given up on them 'til they get a new 'dex,or the few games they do win are against people that aren't aware of the "Phase Out" rule. From a strictly rules standpoint,they probably need a redo the most. Inquisition appears to be after BA,so they're kind of a moot point. DA are flat out awful,which I can tell you from first hand experience,but it's hard to slam your fist and demand a new book when Necrons and DE have been waiting so much longer. I don't think they neccessarily did a bad job writing the DA codex. I think it was just their intention to nerf everybody's 'dex from then on out,but there was so much outcry and backlash over DA that they decided to start tooling up the power level instead of nerfing it.

horsa wrote:I would expect a new Dex, assuming they do one, either in 2011 or 2012. Probably just before they introduce a new rule set which will make the new Tau dex obsolete again!

Areas that I really think the Tau need help:

1) Reduce point cost on most if not all units.
2) Clarify rules. A GW weakness, so not hopeful. Ask Tyranid players if you disagree.
3) Some anti-psyker ability. Unlikely.
4) Some serious HTH ability. Unlikely.
5) Increased firepower. The Tau are behind the curve now since their HTH is not great.
6) Some way of improving LDR if not Init.
7) Replace the XV8 model. The current model is now in a bad state and often comes warped.
8) New models would be nice. The XV9 is expensive in points. I sincerely hope this will not be the trend. There is talk of an XV5 or 6.
9) Plastic Vespeds and Pathfinders at a minimum.
The list goes on but it is pointless to continue. Tau are a fun army to play and can give anyone a good game but it is not a serious contender in tournaments. Surprises do happen though.

Yeah, I like playing Space Marines too.

It was how you said it, something along the lines of "Tau can still play competitively in casual games".

Casual gaming is not competitive gaming, they aren't synonymous terms.

Although I do better in casual play, Tau can perform adequately in tournaments. The problem I run into is that there are some armies that I really struggle against. IG is not one of them.

If I win the first game or two, I am most likely going to run into such armies. KP games Tau can win. Objective games are far more difficult. I find chaos SM with twin lash to be a hard proposition, especially the plague marine variety. Biker armies, if played well, are very difficult to handle too. In fact, any army that can hit your gunline by turn two and if they move first, can be very difficult to even draw against without luck. Regular SM, either in DP or LR style, IG and many other armies are a threat but can be beaten. I have not played against the new Tyranid list yet, so I do not know where that one stands.

The other issue that crops up is point size for tournaments. Some armies just get stronger, the more points they get. Tau seem to stay flat. We will see what the future brings but until a new codex is released, everything is just so much wishful thinking.

I really don't hope Tau doesn't get the next codex. I'd rather someone who really needs or deserves a new release first gets it, like Inquisition, Necrons, or Dark Eldar.

They seem to have gotten hit pretty hard by 5E but I really think other codices need it more: the three above need some serious model and balance work.

Brother SRM wrote:Yeah, I like playing Space Marines too.

Oh please. It's not as if he's asking for Marines to be made into Tau. There are legitimate concerns there.

My personal wishlist for Tau changes to the 'dex:

1) Ability to engage in a 'combat withdrawal' when equipped with Pulse Carbines in lieu of being stuck into assault.
2) None of this power weapons for Battlesuits crap. This isn't Gundam Wing. The Tau don't exchange ranged weapons to get close and smack things with swords(well...except Farsight, but we all know he's a loon). Battlesuits should be able to take Fletchette Dischargers from the vehicle armory, and again--some form of special rule attached to say, a Flamer or Burst Cannon that allows them to make a round of shooting attacks at close range as they retreat would be exceptional here.
3) Hammerheads and Skyrays moved to squadron format, like every other tank/heavy creature seems to be moving towards.
4) Pathfinder teams get broken into two unit selections:
Pathfinder 'Insurgency' Teams, equipped with a Devilfish and the standard fittings and Pathfinder 'Recon' Teams(which come without a Devilfish but can take more Rail Rifles than the Insurgency Team).
5) Get rid of Ethereals and replace the HQs with:
Kroot Shaper
--Allows for more Kroot options to be taken, but removes access to the 'heavier' tech of the Tau.
Tau Shas'el/Shas'o and Shas'vre Bodyguards.
--Comes on foot as standard. Can upgrade to XV-22, XV-25, or XV-89/whatever suits.

I just want a points cost reduction across the board to bring thngs in line with 5th Edition 'dexes. But I'm willing to wait until DH/WH, Necrons or DE get done. They all need it more.

I've seen this attitude a lot and, for whatever reason, a lot of Tau players are perfectly content with what little they already have.

Maybe it's just because Tau Empire sucked so much ass and the only good thing we got was the piranha, but people don't want anything new whatsoever. Screw that, there better be some damn changes in the next Tau codex and not another half-hearted, half-assed "We're GW and we don't know what the feth we're doing with Tau" crap like with Tau Empire or I'll never play Tau again.

I want the same treatment other 5th edition armies are getting. I want to see stuff shuffled around into other slots (stealths being overpriced and forced to compete with XV8s = boxes of stealth suits collect dust on store shelves), I want to see points drop, I want more characters, I want more new units and vehicles and I want them all to be viable. I want to be able to create a plethora of competitive lists and not just one really good build like every other codex that age.

My wish list for the next Tau codex:

-Add the Great Knarloc (Hey, nids got the Trygon)
-Add the Barracuda (not a power house unit, but fun)
-Kroot Special Character (preferably bring back Aknor Prok)
-Vespid Special Character (and new rules for vespid)
-The ability to take marker drones on vehicals (like the apoc formation)
-Make Sniper drones and Elite choice
-Make the current special issue wargear standard, and make new special issue gear.
-More alien auxillaries/ Add Human aux to the codex.
-Some weapon options for the Kroot Shaper would be welcome.
-Farsight = unlock Crisissuits as troop choice
-Shadowsun = unlock Stealthsuits as troop choice

I selected Tau knowing full well they were not the most competitive of armies. I just liked the background, units and overall philosophy. I enjoy 40k as a game as it is fairly fast to play. Unfortunately, I am starting to get bored. The reason is simply that most of my opponents field the same old SM and IG armies that I have seen many times. I know which ones I have a good shot at beating and which ones I will struggle with. It has gotten to the stage where I want to scream every time I have to play another IG army.

There is almost no imagination now in the armies that I face. They are built to win and mostly against opposing mech and horde types. My own forces are neither, so I often pull out a win as my opponent is not used to facing such an army. I usually am the only Tau player in a tournament and I usually finish in the middle of the pack somewhere. I usually win the first one or two and then face an army I just cannot beat with the scenario rules that are often given. I have faced opponents with armies that play slow and sit on objectives so that there are just not enough turns to kill enough of them to win. How do you beat armies in 4 turns with firepower alone? Not easily! Although I have tabled IG and SM armies in that time frame, it is not a given.

Even Tyranids have better weapons than we do! Tau have no protection from psykers either. Fluff wise they are supposed not to be that effected, yet they are the most vulnerable.

Bottom line: I need more firepower. 9 Railguns are just not enough!

Those are all nice ideas and the increase in H2H power by improving/adding Kroot and Human units can be limited by making them 2- picks.

IMO there needs to be a change to make basic FW squads more useful. Just making them cheaper wouldn't be as good as keeping them the same price and making them more effective.

A re-think of markerlights is important to sorting out Tau.

I overheard some GW staff talking about Tau stuff but quickly swapped subject to next months new dredds and kans when they saw I was listening.
I can smell a rat...

Well,

I've seen playing Necrons some weeks ago at my place, and God they were horrible. Rules that were a mess and incapable of having a nice game due to doubts.

Naaa, you can't play with Codex too olds. Tau needs a codex too, but many others needs a newer one... Necrons and Dark Eldars in primis.

I'd love to see all the main legions following their own codex, but it's absurd to have all of them in different manuals and even if I'm a SM to the core... dammit the other needs updates. Otherwise the game gets boring and hacked somehow.

I would like to see Angkor Prok come back and redone.

*Make it so when you take Angkor Prok as an HQ choice he reduces the cost of all Kroot models to show the Kroot are more willing to follow one of their own then anyone else.

*Krootox, does anyone use them? Seems like a redo needs to be done on them or a different Kroot like model.

*At the most I want to be able to take Kroot, Vespid, Humans and Squat as options to replace Tau. Then after that no more alien allies for Tau...too many and the army becomes too polluted with options.

*All suits (Broadside and Crisis) have their models redone.

*Make Ethereals less like figureheads.

I know there's a lot of wishlisting in this thread, but some of the suggestions are quite possible.

I could see GW releasing a conversion kit (a la Space Wolves) for Gue'vesa/human auxiliaries, as well as official support. It'd be easy to do and it'd probably make its points back.

Different crisis suit variants are almost a given, considering that the Tau codex is a good deal lighter on options than most 5e codexes.

I think we could, actually, see CC Tau. Farsight would be an HQ option that could allow access to Battlesuit power weapons, better initiative, etc. That'd allow for multiple builds as well as selling models to the people that want Tau to be more Gundam-like.

Add in some forgeworld model support, lower points pretty much across the board, a few new kits, and think of a way to make Tau supremely shooty again (let's face it, S10 AP1 isn't so scary now that we have medusas and new zoanthropes) and you have a fairly easy and much-needed release.

Paladin Blake wrote:I know there's a lot of wishlisting in this thread, but some of the suggestions are quite possible.

I could see GW releasing a conversion kit (a la Space Wolves) for Gue'vesa/human auxiliaries, as well as official support. It'd be easy to do and it'd probably make its points back.

Different crisis suit variants are almost a given, considering that the Tau codex is a good deal lighter on options than most 5e codexes.

I think we could, actually, see CC Tau. Farsight would be an HQ option that could allow access to Battlesuit power weapons, better initiative, etc. That'd allow for multiple builds as well as selling models to the people that want Tau to be more Gundam-like.

Add in some forgeworld model support, lower points pretty much across the board, a few new kits, and think of a way to make Tau supremely shooty again (let's face it, S10 AP1 isn't so scary now that we have medusas and new zoanthropes) and you have a fairly easy and much-needed release.

Yeah I have been going over the dex and have seen that they are somewhat underpowered compared to a 5e army, and with how fast Tau advance tech fluff wise it would not be to much to turn rail guns to be lancers. Other buffs would nice, but as fluff goes CC Tau are straching it . As far as I see it kroot and Ethereals can stay home, but some people like them so put them in I just won't take them.

Nah, I think it's actually just a matter of time until we see CC Tau. The codex is pretty clear that Farsight sees the value of close combat skill, and it says that his Fire Warriors train in CC. I think main Tau Empire troops won't get anything good for CC (if anything, they may even get worse), but I'm fairly positive Farsight Enclave lists will see something. What that is remains to be seen, but I'd expect a bump in WS and Initiative (probably), with potential for some wargear options.

well if we join the Big boys (from the forgeworld rulles) of the kroots we get a good CC capacity.

And yes Tau, Necron, Dark Angels and Dark Eldar need a review.

was for eldar and witchunters we can get a good list from their dex´s, they are still playable!!

Paladin Blake wrote:Nah, I think it's actually just a matter of time until we see CC Tau. The codex is pretty clear that Farsight sees the value of close combat skill, and it says that his Fire Warriors train in CC. I think main Tau Empire troops won't get anything good for CC (if anything, they may even get worse), but I'm fairly positive Farsight Enclave lists will see something. What that is remains to be seen, but I'd expect a bump in WS and Initiative (probably), with potential for some wargear options.

That would be sweet, I would even put up with the limits on the heavy stuff to get a Tau that are better in CC, I have always liked Farsight but he just did not seem to "work " to well in the current codex.

Wish listing here: Farsight limits on shooty troops (like now), but you get access to power weapons and +1 to WS and I Tau would still have a vary hard time in CC but they would at least have a chance, and BTW keep the Preferred Enemy(Orks). Alas I don't think that it will happen because what I have seen of 5e dexes is they are getting away from the 1+ and 0-1 kinda stuff, but hey they may make losing Kroot, Vespids, Ethereals, and etc such a hit that it could balance.

the HQ's definitely need the biggest boost as none of the special characters (except MAYBE farsight) are remotely worth taking and 1 of the 2 available standard HQ's is abhored by most players. the new theme of HQ's changing the force org would fit well with the tau ethos in that the commander and ethereal has complete control over the makeup and tactics of the force, unlike the IG which follows rigid protocols with commissars to enforce them. farsight could make crisis suits troops at the cost of any ethereals and allied races. anghor could open up other choices like heavy support kroot gunners and fast attack hounds (and possibily gnarlocs and greater gnarloc). the rest of the stuff could get buy with simply point discounts but i'd prefer an overall comprehensive rewrite. the tau empire codex came out while i wasn't playing 40k (4th edition) and i was quite suprised how *little* changed from the original tau codex. the special characters were tweaked (mainly for the worse) as were prices, and two new units IIRC (pirahna and vespid) were added. while i agree that they're not the army *most* in need of a rewrite, they're definitely in the top 25%

I'd really appreciate another suit option, maybe like the hazard suits on Forgeworld. Also, Kroot Hounds need to be their own unit; I hate having to take 10 kroot to get any hounds at all.

Though it would be nice if farsight's troops got CC boosts, they shouldn't be too powerful. Tau would lose their flavor if they became actually good at CC. What I'd like would be ways not to get raped in CC, as opposed to ways to be good at it. For instance, hit-and run (vectored retro-thrusters) as a normal upgrade, not special issue.
This would make us more resilient vs H2H, but it wouldn't make Tau cheesy and overly balanced/good.

i kinda wish news of the next official codex would come out. i've been toying with the idea of making my own codex for the tau updating them to 5th edition but i won't go through the hassle of converting my models and making a document for my FLGS opponents to approve if they're getting an official update by the fall.

Somebody did an indie codex and posted it on here in a similar thread but I can't find it now...

If anything, kroot need better options (grenades! or better synergy with pulse carbines) but they aren't going to give the tau better melee options. It's just not their thing. The tau use auxiliaries to fill in gaps in their strategies, kroot for melee, vespid for speed, auxiliaries need to follow this pattern. The tau basically are fewer in number than the guard, but have better weapons to compensate (or at least that is the idea)

A lot of the units are under used. Ethereals, kroot, krootox, kroot hounds, piranhas, skyrays, sniper drone teams, vespid and to a lesser degree stealth teams.

Markerlights don't cut it anymore and are too expensive, tau units are small in number and too few in shots to really get the job done most of the time against anything but tanks. Then again we can only field a maximum of 9 railguns, were as a guard player can easily have 9 lascannons in one unit.

Some people have suggested giving a railgun the JOTWW ability to damage everything in a line, first target 10 1, second 9 2, third 8 3, ect ect. Others have said vehicle squadrons. Suggestions have been to give the ethereal support abilities while leaving the crisis HQ suits to shooting duty, and kroot/vespid/whatever HQ options as more melee based.

While we can easily just go on and on about what should be changed to what, all we can really do is hope GW won't f-up the tau's next codex.




And yes vespid do work in the current codex, they are just not assault units nor should they be anywere in the front of your army. If you can't use them well, your tactics are mostly to blame. That's all there is to it.

I would be most happy with Kroot with Assault weapons. I think it is stupid to have the only assault unit having rapid fire weapons.

And krootox should be relentless.
both krootox and hounds should have rending...look at those teeth!

Given how bad the Tau are in hand to hand combat, and the prevalence of objective based games, Tau need some method of capturing and securing objectives - and since there are always objectives outside your deployment zone, the Tau really need SOME method to either a: engage in hand to hand combat or b: some way AROUND engaging in hand to hand combat.

When I got back into 40k I thought about starting Tau, until I read their mess of a codex. The format is just awful. I find them as one of the most dynamic races in 40k. I would definitely jump at the chance to start them if they came out with a new dex.

agnosto wrote:Somebody did an indie codex and posted it on here in a similar thread but I can't find it now...

I'd love to see this as well, if anyone remembers where it is.

It's in one of a bunch of similar threads to this one; if I find it, I'll post a linky.

This thread has moved off-topic onto wishlisting. Since there's no real information to be had, I'm locking the thread.