As might be expected since the departure of Ernie Baker and the installment of Tom Kirby as head of GW US, more changes are in the works besides those announced already like the HQ move. Supposedly some positive and fun things are on the horizon, though details have not been revealed as yet. However, more cost cuts are being made too. As of one week from now many GW US stores will have their operating hours cut to 35 hours per week. Other dramatic cuts are rumored, though without confirmation I would hesitate to list them here. If anyone out there has confirmation of further changes, please list them below.

I'd be a lot sadder if there were any GWs left in Massachusetts anyway. Good thing I have a good LGS to play at; I feel bad for those who don't.

You mean they are cutting GW stores hehe. What you see is micromanaging at its best.

Boss "We can save bla bla bla amount of money by making all our stores open only 35 hours!"

Logical Employee"But sire nobody comes into the store durring those hours so we need to stay open later"

Boss "I am off to the Board members to show them how valuable I am for saving them 5 hours per each store"

Logical Employee "But Sire...we only have 5 stores left" Door closes....

Monday mornings at my local GW in Oz, they are lucky to get 5 people through the door and it is in the biggest shopping centre in the state and right next to the food court.

Except school holidays, then the place is packed every minute it is open.

That is unless the store is in a mall. If its in a mall, they have to maintain the mall's hours of operations. Thats the way it works in the US. If not, they pay fines.

boyd wrote:That is unless the store is in a mall. If its in a mall, they have to maintain the mall's hours of operations. Thats the way it works in the US. If not, they pay fines.

Maybe in your area, but some stores are allowed to ignore it(Chik-fil-a, for instance, is still allowed to observed their closed on Sunday rule).

Ostrakon wrote:I'd be a lot sadder if there were any GWs left in Massachusetts anyway. Good thing I have a good LGS to play at; I feel bad for those who don't.

Agreed!

And, as a resident of Massachusetts, I'm interested to know where your good LGS is!

Canada's getting hit too. At first it seems like this belongs in its own thread, but GW Canada is done now. They shut down Canadian HQ and distribution centre, even took away our Games Day with the rest of the American ones other than Baltimore.
Word is they're pulling out of malls every chance they get to avoid having to open Mondays because that's their slowest day. I thought this seemed ridiculous, but after visiting the next closest store to me (since my mall store is getting shut down in two weeks), turns out it's true.
I'd say Fishboy nailed it on the head. I just hope this isn't the beginning of the end. If GW goes the way of WotC, WH is dead to me.

Thanks to BrassScorpion for bringing the changes to attention, but I'm in the same boat as Ostrakon. GW doesn't like Georgia, changes will go unnoticed in the South.

Teek wrote:Thanks to BrassScorpion for bringing the changes to attention, but I'm in the same boat as Ostrakon. GW doesn't like Georgia, changes will go unnoticed in the South.

Or the Midwest, unless you live in the Chicagoland area. Closest store to me is about 7 hours away.

And only 35 hours a week? I guess they only need 1 employee to work the store.

I guess they only need 1 employee to work the store.

That may be sadly prophetic.

Not in Cali. Unless they give them permission to leave for 30 minutes for lunch and close the store for 2 10 minute breaks a day they are going to need to have 2 employees. Dang state labor laws anyway

GW in Aus has most of those hours anyway - 9am - 5pm weekdays. So useless for people like me, who work longer hours than that.

And mine, at Miranda, does have a few people in on a Thursday, mostly uni students. Then again, most people have jobs or lives otherwise, right?

In Houston they are cutting the stores down to only being open 5 days a week and only being staffed by one person. Everyone who works here has to reapply for their job and they will choose their store staff from that pool. That really sucks in some ways because they have some relly good staff floating around. One guy I know in perticular does not even have an assigned store, they just send him to one of the different ones that needs him everyday.

To add onto this... My FLGS that I go to has been getting screwed over on getting orders in. They no longer recieve the black box, and getting in new releases is very problematic. My girlfriend had to wait 2 weeks while they tried to get the new nids book in. I went in there yesterday to get battle missions and they didnt have it. They say they MIGHT have it tomorrow but it is loking more like this weekend.

Hulksmash wrote:Not in Cali. Unless they give them permission to leave for 30 minutes for lunch and close the store for 2 10 minute breaks a day they are going to need to have 2 employees. Dang state labor laws anyway

Back in 99/2000 when I lived in London the small UK stores with 1 staffer during the day did exacly that.


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I'm really suprised at how far they are going to close down the infrastructure in the US. Sure they overexpanded but the entirity of South East US losing its stores seems pretty stupid....

Maybe if they didn't alienate their audience, they'd have more business.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I heard that if you like your store you'll have to give them a pint of your blood.

And that instead of turning the lights on we have to play by the light of our cell phones.

And that if you lose the manager gets to sell your army on ebay.

Also half the store will be given over to buying gold jewelry.

And half the boxes will be stuff with rocks instead of miniatures.

Supposedly some positive and fun things are on the horizon, though details have not been revealed as yet.

Since GWs corporate maneuvering and workings don't really interest me, the GW gamer and hobbyist in me is curious what the positive and fun things are. Any inkling of what that may entail?

Alpharius wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:I'd be a lot sadder if there were any GWs left in Massachusetts anyway. Good thing I have a good LGS to play at; I feel bad for those who don't.

Agreed!

And, as a resident of Massachusetts, I'm interested to know where your good LGS is!

I play at Battlegrounds in Abington. Saturday is 40k day, it's usually easy to pick up games then. They're prepping for their annual megabattle so a lot of the tables are in "do not touch" mode as the terrain is being redone at the moment. But usually they have 6 good tables specifically for tabletop, but in a pinch there are other tables you can just throw terrain on to play.

I'm usually there on Sundays getting my ass handed to me by my fiancee's Space Wolves though I try to show up on Saturdays for variety.

They are cutting over here in Washington to. 1 per store.

Economical optimization. GW being smart for once? ha

I could go up the road to my GW on a Thursday night... but then I'd be going into a GW, and I don't really see the point in that.

Wow. I'm picturing a store only open 5 days a week, 9-5, with one staff member. There are no demo games, display cases full of grey models, an empty 2'x2' "gaming table, no discussion of the game whatsoever. There is only "thanks for your money, now take your and get the out of here."

lords2001 wrote:GW in Aus has most of those hours anyway - 9am - 5pm weekdays. So useless for people like me, who work longer hours than that.

And mine, at Miranda, does have a few people in on a Thursday, mostly uni students. Then again, most people have jobs or lives otherwise, right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I could go up the road to my GW on a Thursday night... but then I'd be going into a GW, and I don't really see the point in that.

I thought you guys all played at H.B.M.C.'s house and bought from maelstrom.

I'm hearing all the regional/area managers are being laid off (maybe that's old news).

1 per store? That's pretty ridiculous (but I'm sure it's true).

I'm genuinely starting to worry about the future of this hobby - I really think the people at the top of the company are making the wrong moves for longevity.

Orangecoke wrote:I'm hearing all the regional/area managers are being laid off (maybe that's old news).

1 per store? That's pretty ridiculous (but I'm sure it's true).

I'm genuinely starting to worry about the future of this hobby - I really think the people at the top of the company are making the wrong moves for immediate monetary gain.

fixed.

sonofruss wrote:I thought you guys all played at H.B.M.C.'s house and bought from maelstrom.

We do - we did on Saturday in fact - and we reached a new level of Geekdom on Saturday as well. How? We played Texas Hold 'Em for 6 hours.

How is that geeky you ask?

Well it wasn't us playing Texas Hold 'Em, it was our characters from our Dark Heresy campaign playing a card-game, to earn more Thrones in game to buy more weapons.

You certainly can't do that up at my local GW.

The Japanese model is one guy per store, closed on 2 weekdays (in the Chiba case Wed Thurs). The major store in Jimbo cho has a lot more staff hanging around. The hobby here is still trying to get a foothold, but most people here are interested in domestic Sci-Fi manga/anime/model and tentacle porn. Plus there is no space to play at your home as most people live in tiny flats.

...

My mind is boggled.

Did any of your PCs win the Millenium Falcon?

You could disguise it and call it the thousand year old bird or something...

Orangecoke wrote:I'm hearing all the regional/area managers are being laid off (maybe that's old news).

1 per store? That's pretty ridiculous (but I'm sure it's true).

I'm genuinely starting to worry about the future of this hobby - I really think the people at the top of the company are making the wrong moves for longevity.

And then the GW stocks will plummet due to gakky sales, but that's not going to straight out put them out of business. They'll have to consider making some different moves. Right now pushing SM is working for them, but when that market dries up - and it will - they'll be forced to switch strategies.

The game isn't going anywhere. They want to maximize profit, but they're making the same dumbass short-term decisions that cripple businesses, and when they realize how stupid it is, they'll try to fix it and have a point in the past that says "See, it didn't work the last time we tried it."

To be fair, GW's marketing team deserves to be fired. They do need to advertise in some way beyond having 40k video games to introduce people to the game. It relies way too much on word of mouth and only having shelf space in specialist games stores means close to zero exposure.

malfred wrote:Did any of your PCs win the Millenium Falcon?

You could disguise it and call it the thousand year old bird or something...

Well one of my players walked out of there with 4000 Thrones. I didn't care as I was playing any number of NPC's with unlimited money (which is the only way to play poker, IMO! ).

One could make the argument that the company's performance and the quality of the game has been on a backslide since Jervis reappeared...

I know I would.

Cutting costs and employees is a very smart idea.

Low cost - maximize sales.
Efficiency efficiency efficiency.

We don't.

8-year-old Jimmy might.

True - my bad ;P

Theft will probably increase with that single employee being to busy with 8-year-old Jimmy to notice 14-year-old-craig making off with models.

Tho if they do increase profits through this kind of managing it should help the game and the support for it.... at least thats what I hope.

Shoplifters aren't called Craig, they're called Wayne.

In the "GW's New Buisness Model" thread someone was saying that their online store makes far more then all the real shops put together and that they would be happy with being an online only buisness. This certainly seems like the start of them trying to downsize if not eliminate entirely their highstreet presence.

Ironically things are going the other way for indie retailers, one online only wargames seller here in the UK opened a shop in London just last year and another big one has similar plans.

Personally I'd rather see them succeed then GW on he high street since they can offer more than GW product for one thing! If GW want to just make models then let them, there are other people who will fill the hobby & scoial voids theya re leaving behind in their desperate rush for more money.

Wow! Ian't this a bright and uplifting thread!
We must remember though, how big GW are. They have stores on six continents for gaks sake!
But to improve sales, they shoudl do the following-
1. Kill Jervis in a horrific and gory manner that might even make us fell sorry for the git.
2. Lower prices (au $74 dollars for three raveners! And don't even get me started on termies!)
3. Stop jacking up the cost of everything! (For example- The Foundation Paint Set. In March 2009 it cost $80 dollars, June-$90, January-$96)
4. Start advertising! (even a few basic posters would do!)
But GW won't go belly-up, their fanbase is just to large. Sure the adults are dropping out of it, but there's more than enough Timmies with loaded parents believe me!

*End of Rant*

I'm not surprised they are closing down stores, their overheads in the US must be huge with the cost of transporting their goods all over the US. Also high street sales of everything not just hobby things have dropped in the last few years. Many online sites offer next day delivery and if someone live more then 20 miles from a GW store then I would expect them to order online. Even with my own local store here in South London I have to order character figures direct, although getting them sent to my store is a bonus.

As for mall, staffing etc. I can only speak for the UK but the rental in shopping malls is more expensive because of the security. With staff I could easily see GW chopping out most of the mornings as there is often no-one about as someone mentioned earlier the stores are often only rammed full during school holiday times and while that's a good way to get parents and kids in I think its a bit rude to treat staff like glorified free child care. Christmas and Birthday presents don't event get close to a professional week's childcare in the UK.

I think GW should close their stores and instead concentrate on community events like an East/West coast games day in the US. The interesting dilema they face is do they pander to parents who dont want their kids finding out about the less polite Dark Eldar and Chaos Gods (esp Slaneesh) or do they target young adults with a disposable income? If it were me I'd be pitching myself at the older players who are more likely to spend every month than parents who might only spend twice a year. (more adult males drop out usually because of family commitments)

I'm curious about this happening this year as the rumours strongly suggest that WHF is coming out which would mean a better sales year than most. If GW can time the series revisions every 4 years with 2 year intervals (so you get WHF then 2 years then WH40K then 2 years etc) they coudl keep themselves boyant much better.

During my last visit at the local GW I overheard an employee tell one of the kids, in a friendly way, that he would have to bring his own paints from then on instead of using store paints because of some changing policies.

Nothing wrong with this Imo.

maybe once the outgoings on GWs stores is gone, they will spend it on advertising and pushing more via the FLGS. I never saw the point in going to a GW myself, the one in the Mall of Georgia was tiny and cramped, much better to go somewhere spacious, and if Games Workshop helps promote independants (they do a good job for me tbh) then its going to be fine.


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though i will say I find it hilarious that when GW decides to close stores, everybody gets up and yells , yet when asked if they like going to said stores, they just complain about them!

Maybe GW isn't making enough sales in their stores to justify staying open since everyone is buying from discounters

They won't promote independants, they'll want everyone to buy from their webstore at full price.

Independants have to promote themselves.

Gargskull wrote:They won't promote independants, they'll want everyone to buy from their webstore at full price.

Independants have to promote themselves.

? Then why is there a huge listing of independant stores in the UK White Dwarf every month? They even have a decent size ad for a Dutch Chain that stock their products.

My closest local GW shop in Maryland is going to these hours in about a week:
Mon., Tues.: closed (no change from current)
Wed., Thurs., Fri.: 1:00 PM to 8:00 PM
Saturday: noon to 8:00 PM
Sunday: noon to 6:00 PM (no change from current)

This represents a cut of 8 operating hours from the current schedule. And it certainly is plausible that this could also mean a forthcoming change to one person per shop for stores that are able to cut their hours this short.

Closing in the middle of the day for 45 minutes for lunch when only one person is running a GW shop is something I've already seen done at times and it is already being done in some shops around the world.

yup, from personal experience, opening before noon in a game store is pointless, and since they want it to be retail rather than hobby in GW stores, opening AFTER 8pm is pointless as well I open until 11 for my customers, I definitely don't make bank in those hours!


also @ Gargskull: I get people in my store all the time that were referred to me via GW Customer Service. Sure they'd love you to buy all their stuff, but I'm pretty sure the company is smart enough that independants make sure people keep playing

GW is doing what most companies are being forced to due in the US/ North America: cutting back. Unfortunately, they are not doing it in a smart way.

The busiest days in the US are weekends: saturday and sunday. Mondays are usually non-shopping days. Tues-Friday 9-5pm is hit or miss. What they need to consider is following the Japan Model:

Closed monday/ tuesday.
Weds-Thurs: open at 1pm, stay open until 8.
Friday: open at 2pm, stay open until 10.
Saturday: 10am- 10pm
Sunday: 11am- 8 pm.

That gives a 36 hr week. And maximizes the gaming time of everyone available. You can keep 2 staff, IE manager and employee. Right now they have wacky times, all the stores are different. They can consider shifting hours during summers. But if they lower their darn prices on stuff maybe we'd buy more stuff and they'd make more money.

Problem is they never attempt to do a sale, sales bump their busy. This last weekend I was at a event, where you paid $20 to get in, that day shop owner at a independent offers a 20% discount. Genius. He's already made 20 bucks a heads for 40 guys. That cover more than the discount for everyone else that bought stuff, PLUS more stuff sold. I didn't have any money on me otherwise i'd have bought paints I needed.

Alpharius wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:I'd be a lot sadder if there were any GWs left in Massachusetts anyway. Good thing I have a good LGS to play at; I feel bad for those who don't.

Agreed!

And, as a resident of Massachusetts, I'm interested to know where your good LGS is!

That cause you need to come down to Rhode Island and check us out. (shameless bump)

Dean

Would it not be best in the long run, for company and gamers, if the GW stores close down and Indy FLGSs open in their stead?

I'm a regular at my GW store (in Delaware), meaning I go down to play 2-3 times a week.

The store, as long as its been open, has always only had 2 employees, a redshirt (who has changed a few times) and a manager, who has been the same. Their schedule has also always been closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, open 12-8 all other days of the week including Sat/Sun, or thereabouts (sometimes they stay open till 9 for events).

It's worked out fine so far.. even if they cut a few more hours out of the early afternoons on weekdays, I don't see it effecting much. Most of the regular crowd there are 9-5ers, myself included, so we don't ever show up until after 5 anyway.

The reason I want a GW within driving distance to me.

I want to be able to buy Specialist games when ever i want to with out having to order online from GW. I also want to be able to pick up an occasional piece of Forge World that they might keep instock.

I don't mind driving 3 hours to do a little shopping and gaming in if I can make a day out of it. Right now the closest GW is about 7 hours away.

US GW stores do not stock Forge World. The Battle Bunkers used to do so, but they no longer stock it either. Bunkers currently allow you to order through them and pay in store, but you have to wait for it to come in and then pick it up.

BrassScorpion wrote:US GW stores do not stock Forge World. The Battle Bunkers used to do so, but they no longer stock it either. Bunkers currently allow you to order through them and pay in store, but you have to wait for it to come in and then pick it up.

I just remember two years ago I was able to get a few bits for my Dred at the one in Chicago, but I guess they changed that.

I personally love my local GW and will miss it dearly when it closes next week. Granted, I hate most of the customers, but the fact that I can go there and have an enjoyable day of painting and chatting about my hobby before all the munchkins attack when school lets out is great.

I avoid my LGS like the plague, and did so even before GW came to town. I have no desire to be in a room full of 30 year old men who have yet to figure out the art of bathing and are prone to peeing a little in excitement when a new Pokemon set comes out. Not to mention, this is a store that once ran a 40K tourney on 3'x3' tables!

I've heard the 1 store, 1 employee thing too. This kinda had to be expected as soon as they announced Kirby was coming to the U.S. There was going to be blood. And since he's going to be the U.S. for quite a while yet, I imagine he isn't done yet.

Most traditional advertising <> good idea for GW. Their product does not and never will appeal to the masses, therefore it's correct not to throw money away advertising on mass media. They could get more creative with their marketing, however.

Does anyone know how much a GW red shirt gets paid?

Of course it maybe varies between state to state. Just curious on the wage rates.

Starting pay for "redshirts" is in the $8-$9 US range. It goes up from there depending on training level. Training programs are on hold at the moment while they are being redesigned and so it now appears, while staff changes are apparently being made.

The could reduce their overhead quickly by.
-make white dwarf mail/ internet order only.
-have army books by downloadable 1x. Most people that get them free somewho have a friend scan it anyway, this won't be able to be stopped.
-make the rule books downloadable.

If they move to electronic quicker, then they can safe on some printing/ hard copies. Plus they could after a white dwarf is out of print for 2 years, charge $2 a down load. Your telling me you wouldn't be downloading old White Dwarves for a $2 because you can??

Canadian red-shirts make a bit more than minimum wage, but not that much. Having worked in small and large retail stores for years, I know one thing; you couldn't pay me enough to be the only employee in a store like GW.

Employee burnout would be huge and turnover even more ridiculous than it already is in most stores

njpc wrote:The could reduce their overhead quickly by.
-make white dwarf mail/ internet order only.
-have army books by downloadable 1x. Most people that get them free somewho have a friend scan it anyway, this won't be able to be stopped.
-make the rule books downloadable.

This assumes that they aren't already covering their costs. At $9/issue and $25/army book, I tend to think both are profitable or at least breakeven. Plus, this is all about U.S. operations.

I think the question people should be asking themselves is where will GW look for additional cost-cutting opportunities? Kirby looks to be cutting U.S. operations down to the bone, which is interesting at a time at which corporate profits are improving, at least in some sectors.

After 1 employee/store goes into effect, there isn't much more to squeeze out there unless they cut wages (and they can hardly go much lower) or close stores (which means a loss in sales that they aren't guaranteed to recoup through local FLGSs, etc.). They're consolidating operations in Memphis, which should help. And they'll probably pick up some additional savings there through attrition as some of those who actually have jobs waiting for them in Memphis decide not to make the move.

I'm concerned that we're still in for some surprises, and maybe even involving some sacred cows.

The idea of a 1 size fits all hours policy is dumb. They should just say 'what days are sales not equalling costs' and go by that.

Yes I'm sure that some strip mall stores only money on the weekends but the idea that the NYC store in the middle of NYU and Greenwich Villiage can't make money 7 days a week is stupid.

They should also open on Mondays that are holidays I know I'd happily go play somewhere.

jbunny wrote:The reason I want a GW within driving distance to me.

I want to be able to buy Specialist games when ever i want to with out having to order online from GW. I also want to be able to pick up an occasional piece of Forge World that they might keep instock.

I don't mind driving 3 hours to do a little shopping and gaming in if I can make a day out of it. Right now the closest GW is about 7 hours away.

your LGS can order GW specialist ranges at no shipping cost to you and the same price as GW. Far easier to do than going to the website.

Typical British approach to business that is still stuck in the late 80's early 90's if you ask me. One person stores will potentially save you money and appear profitable but part of the hidden costs will be lost revenue.

I personally will not return to a store if it is shut when it is supposed to be open - that includes pee breaks. I don't care about your needs, my time is more valuble than yours. There are two independant stores I don't go back to in Seattle because of that happening a few times - as a customer there is nothing worse than going out of my way to go somewhere and finding it shut. Stupid "back in 30 mins sign".

Only one person in the store trying to serve customers, run intro games and develop the hobby will just not work in the long term.

You can only focus on below the line costs and efficiency savings for so long. At some point you have to focus on increase revenue through grow and not price rises.

Watch for the next set of financial results that trumpet how great GW is doing but when you look at their revenue and strip out price increase and the LOTR blip you will see stagnant revenue grow for 5 or 6 years. This isn't going to help in the LONG term.

Has Games-Workshop officially stated this is going to happen or is this conjecture?

In Australia, the stores are almost entirely located in the big shopping centres. The only ones I know of in NSW that are not is the BattleBunker in the city, the store at Parramatta, and the one at Woolengong (which I found almost by scent when I was down there for a couple of hours).

But they take their cue from the ones in the shopping centres, which mean that they are all open Mon - Sun 9-5, and open til 9pm on Thurs. So they have to have someone in every day during the dead hours - often when I was within 2 mins of a GW at work and went there to paint at lunch, I would be the only person in.

lords2001 wrote:In Australia, the stores are almost entirely located in the big shopping centres. The only ones I know of in NSW that are not is the BattleBunker in the city, the store at Parramatta, and the one at Woolengong (which I found almost by scent when I was down there for a couple of hours).

But they take their cue from the ones in the shopping centres, which mean that they are all open Mon - Sun 9-5, and open til 9pm on Thurs. So they have to have someone in every day during the dead hours - often when I was within 2 mins of a GW at work and went there to paint at lunch, I would be the only person in.

Nothing wrong with staffing your stores per your known customer flow, say early afternoon - it is efficient and saves money. However, having one person on a Saturday afternoon is not going to give the average customer the great GW customer service you normally get in their stores. It will cost you revenue - now, the 64 million dollar question is will that lost revenue (or actually marginal gross profit) be less than the savings from staff hour reductions.

Sergeant Horse wrote:

jbunny wrote:The reason I want a GW within driving distance to me.

I want to be able to buy Specialist games when ever i want to with out having to order online from GW. I also want to be able to pick up an occasional piece of Forge World that they might keep instock.

I don't mind driving 3 hours to do a little shopping and gaming in if I can make a day out of it. Right now the closest GW is about 7 hours away.

your LGS can order GW specialist ranges at no shipping cost to you and the same price as GW. Far easier to do than going to the website.

Yes they can, but sometimes it's just the impulse purchases that give me joy.


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gorgon wrote:
or close stores (which means a loss in sales that they aren't guaranteed to recoup through local FLGSs, etc.)..

This is true but in some cases closing a store, and losing those sales can result in higher profits. You figure that the only reason they are closing a store is because they are not making overhead. While they lose the sales they also "lose" the expenses that go with those sales.

I am having a hard time buying into the one staff working idea. Would it be one staff, one manager?

I think the question people should be asking themselves is where will GW look for additional cost-cutting opportunities? Kirby looks to be cutting U.S. operations down to the bone, which is interesting at a time at which corporate profits are improving, at least in some sectors.

"Gotta fix the roof while the sun is shining" is a good quote for that. My business just had one of its best winter seasons in recent times, in the middle of this recession, and we're about to use that momentum to change things up and hit the summer months(peak months for recreational equipment/vehicles ) as hard as we can with new ideas and product. Resting on your laurels is bad business and a good way to let competition catch up. My business cut hours, laid folks off, closed on mondays/sundays and came out better for it. We're back to 3/4 staffing(was 1/4) and 6 day work weeks. Seeing businesses cut jobs is not fun, but it is a fact of life in America now and we may have to get used to it for some time. Granted, my profession and GW are apples and oranges, but the retail business section themes are the same. If its not working, do what it takes to make it work. If its working well, make it work better, etc. etc.

Also, no word yet what the positive and fun things mentioned in the OPs first post could be? That interests me more then corporate shenanigans.

ProtoClone wrote:I am having a hard time buying into the one staff working idea. Would it be one staff, one manager?

Small game stores really can work with one staffer... It just means they need to be set up right. My old FLGS rarely had two people on except on weekends, and made out OK until the owners made some bad decisions.

At my store, the hours ave been reduced by an hour so 12-7pm on weekdays and 12-8pm on saturday.

Every store in the area are also making massive layoffs and each store will be only ran by one person, technically every employee is getting layed off and they have to reapply for the new position (wage not salary). These are not manager, but "store operators". Every store close for lunch and dinner breaks as well as regular breaks. If the one store employee is sick, the the store will not open that day.

Liquidice281 wrote:At my store, the hours ave been reduced by an hour so 12-7pm on weekdays and 12-8pm on saturday.

Every store in the area are also making massive layoffs and each store will be only ran by one person, technically every employee is getting layed off and they have to reapply for the new position (wage not salary). These are not manager, but "store operators". Every store close for lunch and dinner breaks as well as regular breaks. If the one store employee is sick, the the store will not open that day.

I doubt that the store won't open, that's lost revenue and if it's in a mall, a big fine.

I doubt that the store won't open, that's lost revenue and if it's in a mall, a big fine.

Mall stores will still have more than one employee because of their long operating hours.

As for what happens for single employee stores when that single person is sick or has to be out for other emergencies, the stores will in most circumstances be closed. I asked this question directly of a trusted GW manager yesterday and that was the answer. This is apparently how things are handled in existing single employee stores when the one employee needs to be off work unexpectedly.

Wait, I can see one employee at a time but one employee period?

That's dumber than I thought.

Who's going to be managing these folks? Roaming managers covering an area?

Wow, if this is true it's a recipie for disaster.

GW doing something stupid and short-sighted? I refuse to believe it.

Well, I've never lived in an area that had a GW store, so I'm not really bothered by this news. The South has never been well received for GW stores , so I've supported my FLGS.

I feel bad for some folks who've grown accustomed to playing in a GW store where the employees build all the tables and great looking terrain. When I've visited these shops in the Virginia/Blatimore area, that is what really stuck out with me. I guess I was a bit green with envy.

I wish my local GW was open as much as the rest of yours. Sure I live in Chicago, the Mecca of GW. But the store that's closest to my train riding butt, is the one in Oak Park.

Mon-Tue: Closed
Wed, Thur, Friday: 12-7
Sat: 10-7
Sun: 12-5

It's a small store with 2 employees. With the Academy Courses, as demo games, running the register, etc... I can't imagine how 1 employee would manage it.

If they go down, I'd have to rely on a FLGS... oh, wait, there aren't any here.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Wait, I can see one employee at a time but one employee period?

That's dumber than I thought.

Who's going to be managing these folks? Roaming managers covering an area?

Wow, if this is true it's a recipie for disaster.

My thoughts exactly.

It would be one thing to have the manager work by himself. He has the authorization to handle all situations that could arise as apposed to a regular non-management staffer. Also, if you are a manager, or owned the store, then that would be different because you are the one to set your own schedule and if you didn't arrange for someone to come in a fill in for your break/lunch, too bad. But just a regular wage slave grunt would not be authorized to do certain things. If it is one employee, non-management, then there might be potential OSHA violations that are being over looked. That is why I am having a hard time buying this one employee idea.

Managers that run stores by themselves will still be managers, single "redshirt" employees that run stores solo will be referred to as store "operators". Store profitability will affect bonuses, so those stores that do very well have the potential to pay off well for their operators.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Wait, I can see one employee at a time but one employee period?

That's dumber than I thought.

Who's going to be managing these folks? Roaming managers covering an area?

Wow, if this is true it's a recipie for disaster.

I'm guessing this "roving manager" has the dubious honor of filling in should one of the employees be absent? Or will they just leave the store closed that day?

Regional Managers already fill in sometimes when an employee needs a break, so it's certainly possible, but I wouldn't count on it all the time. There will likely be times where a store is just closed when the single employee doesn't make it in to work.

Checking around, my GW - seemingly - won't be changed by the store hour modifications. Most likely because it's in a very crowded area that gets a lot of traffic, and shutting down earlier / opening later would mean a lot of lost business. It should still, after this, operate from 10am-9pm non-Sundays.

This is not to say other GW's in my area aren't changing, though: At least one's cut 10+ hours (I can't find its Sunday hours, if it indeed has them) of operation by going from 10am-9pm to 12pm-9pm on weekdays. The staff I've had a hunch about for some time, because suddenly a store that - for the last nine years - had been keeping staff for almost a year (if not slightly longer / shorter) on average is now blowing through employees at a rate of about one a month. "Oh, he got fired." "He moved to a different GW." "He quit." I might be a bit more believing if it was just one or two staff, but we've essentially gone through a dozen staff members in the last three months.

To what purposes do these stores serve then?

I am seeing a serious , how would you say it... SNAFU? Conflict of interests? Outright mismanagement?

For one, Honestly, What kind of profit are we really talking about with the cheesey runnings of these stores? Do they honestly THINK that these sorts of stores can actually run efficiently with 1 person in them?

WHO made that decision, and where did they get thier information as to how that kind of a buisness runs? It might work great over in Europe, or other places, MARS for example, but in the real world, you are talking about serious logistic issues that seem to have not even been taken into account.

One person in a shop? How big is the shop going to be then? Has someone seen what rent runs ANYWHERE these days? Does that mean that GW is getting into the realestate business then? How do they see thier insurance rates going when they start seeing more health issues come up with these so called one man shops?

What about emergencies, such as cutting your hand on a hobby knife? Glue in the eye sort of issues, or issues having to do with sexual harrasment?
I know it is a "Hobby " store, but there is a heck of a spectrum of issues that can and do come up in the real world that seem to have been left out of the equasion, and I am quite frankly stunned that the upper management seems to think that the golden streets flow with milk and honey, when in the grand scheme, we are dealing with a weak economy, a degrading workforce, and a whole situation where the hobbby itself is going to a second and even sometimes third tier activity.

NOW we see Darth Tom, coming over here with his high hat ideas, seemingly to "Save Money" when in the long run, it is appearing that he doesn't even know the first thing about the game, let alone how to market, promote, and relate to the customer base.

IF they arn't his ideas, then WHO's? and as seeing as he is in "Charge", what is that going to mean when the shops are closing left right and center, the whole Idea of having GW shops is lost somewhere in the sauce, and the general consensus is that they care more about pritty pictures, haphazard suport, and padding thier own pockets, AL LA
robber barons mentality.

What sort of profit do these stores make?

How much exactly does it cost to train the GW employees?

How much will these employees be paid?


Seeing as you are going to be asking someone to work three times as hard...

Seeing as someone hasn't done thier homework on the way real life american buisnesses run, and how people really go into these shops, see the price, laugh a little and walk on out...

What are the "Improvements?" Why do they think that these changes are even going to work?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:The reason I want a GW within driving distance to me.

I want to be able to buy Specialist games when ever i want to with out having to order online from GW. I also want to be able to pick up an occasional piece of Forge World that they might keep instock.

I don't mind driving 3 hours to do a little shopping and gaming in if I can make a day out of it. Right now the closest GW is about 7 hours away.

Honestly, they do not support or carry Specialist games gear in the GW stores. You have to special order it from them.

Forgeworld items are special order, as well. They do not generally stock FW stuff.

Who made that decision

Most likely, Mr. T. Kirby.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing one person on a busy Saturday try to simultaneously teach Academy classes, answer the phone, greet every walk-in customer and assist them in finding and making the purchase that's right for them, answer rules questions and hobby questions from customers already in the store, and run the cash register for every purchase. Some Saturdays that's currently a challenge with two people, with only one it should require a Herculean effort and the ability to be in multiple places within the store simultaneously.

OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

To be fair, there are plenty of small businesses that operate with a staff of one. Yeah, I think it's problematic for a GW store at certain times in the week. But then again, perhaps the bar will be set lower in terms of expectations for the store and operator.

Note however, that this does appear to be a contradiction in their business plan. For a long time we've heard that their model was to have their stores operate as their advertising and for new customer cultivation rather than solely be a sales outlet. With only one employee, cultivating new customers would appear to take a back seat at times to basic tasks like ringing up customers, stocking shelves, checking inventory, placing orders, etc. Certainly a lot of mundane tasks can be done during slower hours, but this plan isn't an all-out press on customer cultivation, that's for sure.

As I said before, I think it's likely there are more changes on the way and maybe some real surprises.

My local GW manager relayed this same story... really sad. Supposedly this is how the shops are run in the U.K.. Is that true? Can a fellow UK gamer who visits GW stores be able to comment on that?

I really like the people in the store. What's sad is this news has them all bummed which in turn has dampened their enthusiasm for the company and the products they sell. Image being told that one day soon only one of you will be left.....

It does seem at first glance that GW/Kirby is still insisting that US stores can operate as they do in the UK. To me, the idea that a GW store here doesn't carry their entire line shows they don't understand the environment in the US. I'm sure there have been frustrated customers who drove 50+ miles to a GW store only to find it's not so much a factory/specialty store as a storefront carrying the basics.

Perhaps there's more going on here than it seems, or perhaps Kirby will find his time in the US illuminating. However, my experience with executives is that most of them got where they are by being hardheaded to an unearthly degree, and they tend to see things through their personal prism.

Not even counting things like state labor laws which they are pretty much throwing out. How likely is it going to be that they are cool with people closing for 30 minutes for lunch on a saturday.....

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

Hulksmash wrote:Not even counting things like state labor laws which they are pretty much throwing out. How likely is it going to be that they are cool with people closing for 30 minutes for lunch on a saturday.....

Declare the employees are "managers" give them a salary, and a lot of state labor laws no longer apply.

My local GW used to be in a major shopping mall but they've closed down the mall location and moved to a strip mall beside a grocery store, staffed with 1 person, the manager, they let everyone else go. The hours are also similar to what some people posted, Mon/Tues closed, Wed/Thurs short hours etc.

To the people who inquired how this would work logistically, the 1 man staff literally does all those things you wondered about at the same time, to the best of his ability. He schedules academy sessions for first thing in the morning to get it out of the way, then the rest of the day juggles ringing up sales at the cash, giving painting lessons, greeting people at the door, and eating lunch at the same time. He usually ends up eating a cold lunch since it takes him almost 4 hours it seems to finish his lunch on busy weekends.

Some may argue this is highly unprofessional, that he's eating his lunch at the cash register, albeit as discreetly as he can, then attempting to talk to people through a mouthful of chow, but he tries his best. It's corporate's fault, not his. I really feel sorry for him sometimes because on weekends the store is also a 'daycare centre'. It's only been a few months, but employee burnout may indeed be a coming factor.

Also, the store is also indeed messier on average than stores that used to be staffed by 2-3 employees at a time, there's just no time to clean, or eat, or go to the bathroom.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

Easy to identify maybe, but how are you going to see whos responsible, run a complete inventory count every night?

Well, in the UK here, our local GW is closed on a Tuesday and it's in one of the more affluent areas of the country. It might also open from 12 to 6 on other days.

Also, though there are several employees of the store, unless it's a weekend, a holiday or Thursday and Friday evenings there's only normally the one guy in. Whoever it is does fine pretty much, I think.

I mean, when it comes down to it, weekdays are pretty dead. If I drop in there's probably the staff member, 2 student regulars then some guy in his mid 30's (or more) who works night shifts or whatever.

But yeah, you do notice different strategies being used, for example, they won't play an intro game, but they'll run one, normally by getting 2 newbies to have a go, or the kid and his dad.

And yup, the store does close for half an hour at lunch time and things, including an "everybody out" if it does happen to be busy then it ends up being the Games Workshop expedition to Burger King with all the kids following behind.

@jbunny

They still apply here in California. But other states have varying rules. Salary doesn't solve every problem, just a lot of them

But this is the direction it's headed. Specialty retail doesn't really need 2 people in store all day long or even to be open all day long. I can count the number of times that Sat-Sun didn't account for 60+% of my week (closer to 80% when I worked for GW). Makes perfect sense to me. Just hoping their careful about how they go about it based on each states labor laws.

When I worked in Alabama managers were not required by law to take breaks, no lunch. Also companies could not get in trouble if they did not allow a manager to take a lunch. But every state is different.

CCotD wrote:My local GW manager relayed this same story... really sad. Supposedly this is how the shops are run in the U.K.. Is that true? Can a fellow UK gamer who visits GW stores be able to comment on that?

I really like the people in the store. What's sad is this news has them all bummed which in turn has dampened their enthusiasm for the company and the products they sell. Image being told that one day soon only one of you will be left.....

The upside to the bad attitude is that it let me get my hands on the new BA Codex before anyone else in my area. A little, "What are they gonna do, fire you?" goes a long way!

jbunny wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Not even counting things like state labor laws which they are pretty much throwing out. How likely is it going to be that they are cool with people closing for 30 minutes for lunch on a saturday.....

Declare the employees are "managers" give them a salary, and a lot of state labor laws no longer apply.

oh dear.

You do realize you just cannot call people managers right - they actually have to manage something. There is a large list of what qualifies as an "exempt employee" and a "non exempt employee" - just paying them a salary and calling them a manager doesn't just cut it. Also, rules vary from state to state and if you get it wrong one huge ass law suit is soon to be following.

It all depends on what they have to do, and what resoniblities they would have.

Everyone should know that the situation will gradually get worse due to GW's self-defeating marketing strategies. People who originally like to play these miniature game are getting older. The requirement for a tournament keeps getting higher and higher that new comers find them hard to catch up. Teenagers prefer Xbox360 or PS3, not painting miniatures. Those who liked are mostly looked upon as being weirdo. So, enjoy GW as much as possible because it will be gone in another decade.

CCotD wrote:My local GW manager relayed this same story... really sad. Supposedly this is how the shops are run in the U.K.. Is that true? Can a fellow UK gamer who visits GW stores be able to comment on that?

I really like the people in the store. What's sad is this news has them all bummed which in turn has dampened their enthusiasm for the company and the products they sell. Image being told that one day soon only one of you will be left.....

My local to work GW is The Plaza, Oxford Street, cenral London. There are never fewer than three staff in attendance, often as many as five.

OTOH one time I visited the High Street Kensington shop there was only the manager, late on a Saturday afternoon.

wildger wrote:Everyone should know that the situation will gradually get worse due to GW's self-defeating marketing strategies. People who originally like to play these miniature game are getting older. The requirement for a tournament keeps getting higher and higher that new comers find them hard to catch up. Teenagers prefer Xbox360 or PS3, not painting miniatures. Those who liked are mostly looked upon as being weirdo. So, enjoy GW as much as possible because it will be gone in another decade.

While it's easy to see things this way, that's the way gaming's always been viewed. Thirty-something years ago kids sitting around playing D&D were the weirdos because they did something other than gettin' high and groovin' out. Twenty years ago people playing the same videogames you're saying are killing the gaming community were the weirdos. Gaming's always been on the edge of what so-called normal people do in their free time, but hopefully despite the general retarderation of the world it will continue to stay there, clinging on the life, waiting for the precious few open-minded people who enjoy such things to discover it.

From what I am understanding, Mr Kirby has come to the US, thought his plane had turned back to the UK, and commenced slashing store hours because he thought that for the hours he was gone, mass hiring and store hour increases appeared?

This guy seems like an idiot. The US is NOT the UK. We run stuff MUCH differently here. I REALLY hope GW treads lightly with how they run labor here. If they do too many cuts, mess with hours too much, the US Government gets involved, and this could get ugly.

I think as the community, we need to find something we can do. I honestly think that buying in store and paying the sometimes outrages prices now might be a good idea. Sure its expensive, but if it keeps your local store staffed, with free paint and tables, and stocked, I dont see a problem. I guess we could look at the store prices having a "tax" add on for use of the paint and tables. Sure, support your FLGS, but for those of us who dont have one, we NEED a GW to be able to play at and use. I hope that things improve, or there might be some dark and scary times ahead for all of us.

The US is NOT the UK. We run stuff MUCH differently here.

I've had that same conversation with friends more than once and when we heard Kirby had taken over the US we feared he would try to run it like the UK business and due to the differences in the US cause the business to fail. We shall see.

This is definitely confirmed here in LA. Here are my local store's hours:

Store Manager
Ray Stakenas
Telephone
805-492-8800
Upcoming Events
More Tanks! March 20th
Sat, 20 Mar 2010 - Sat, 20 Mar 2010

The Drums of War - March 13th
Sat, 13 Mar 2010 - Sat, 13 Mar 2010

Hobby Center WH Tournament Rd 2
Sat, 27 Mar 2010 - Sun, 28 Mar 2010

More Information

Opening Hours

Monday - Closed

Tuesday - Closed

Wednesday - 1pm - 8pm

Thursday - 1pm - 8pm

Friday - 1pm - 9pm

Saturday - 1pm - 9pm

Sunday - 12pm - 6pm

Most days it's one employee (the manager Ray) who will either close the store for lunch or have a Redshirt come in for a half day to make those things happen.

Let's not assume Mr. Kirby is a complete moron. He is a businessman and will be following all applicable labor laws. When I worked for GW we would generally split the day with two employees. I would open, my partner would come in half way through. While both of us were there we would do lunch breaks, bank deposits etc... Then I would go home and he would close.

Let us also remember that GW is fleeing from Mall stores in droves. The rent is simply too high especially in Southern California in malls. That was a corporate edict more than 2 years ago and it is already starting to happen. This gives them more control over their hours and rent.

I'm not saying Kirby is a saint by any means, simply that this isn't the end of the world as we know it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that this is not the most convenient for us the consumer, but this one man store concept is being used by many different companies right now. Lucky Brand jeans used to have a strict two employee in the store policy to avoid employee theft. Due to budgetary cutbacks they have rescinded that policy close to 2 months ago.

Ah so the Ventura store is finally open! Coolio. I'll have to let my friends in the area know. They've been pissed at the only other place that carries GW not having the basics in stock.

As for following applicable law what I heard the other day says they are sticking to the one man policy in the Los Angeles area (may be different for ventura/thousand oaks since they are so far out. the two stores should share 1-2 extra employees). And don't assume that just cause your a good businessman you can keep track of seperate labor laws straight. I recently worked for Luxottica Retail (sunglass hut) which is a huge retail/distribution company and they don't give lunch or 10's in their mall stores. In fact when I informed them of this issue I was rather quickly shown the door. Some companies think they can "get away" with it.

Common sense would say that 3 stores should share 2 extra redshirts and that those employees would bounce from store to store. This is severely hampered by the silly direction they went a few years ago that got rid of part time employees. Maybe common sense will come back and they'll go back to part time employees.

The store in Philadelphia just moved from a mall location to a strip mall. I went there this Monday to find out not only is it only open 1-9pm but that it's closed on Mondays and Tuesdays.

hungryp wrote:Canada's getting hit too. At first it seems like this belongs in its own thread, but GW Canada is done now. They shut down Canadian HQ and distribution centre, even took away our Games Day with the rest of the American ones other than Baltimore.
Word is they're pulling out of malls every chance they get to avoid having to open Mondays because that's their slowest day. I thought this seemed ridiculous, but after visiting the next closest store to me (since my mall store is getting shut down in two weeks), turns out it's true.
I'd say Fishboy nailed it on the head. I just hope this isn't the beginning of the end. If GW goes the way of WotC, WH is dead to me.

WotC did it because Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: the Gathering don't go through ridiculous price hikes every year. They also are better served at privately owned gaming stores where the doors can stay open until midnight to house weekly role playing groups and Friday Night Magic. WotC is doing fine.

GW offers a product that requires hours to play, assemble, and paint. Again, the FLGS will house that environment much better than a GW store designed solely for the purpose of moving merchandise. Being open during normal business hours is a death sentence in the gaming industry. Most "geeks" aren't available to do their geeking until outside of those hours.

Whatever allows for a better, more streamlined, and hopefully cost effective game: I'm all for it.

Opening a retail store later than 10am on a Saturday is just so full of fail it's not even funny. On weekdays I can understand it but SATURDAY? I think they underestimate how many shoppers in their mid-30's like to get their shopping done early because they have kids or other things they need to do.

I spend hundreds each month at GW, always before 10:30 am on Saturdays. Another FLGS never seems to get a dime from me because they dont open until 1 pm on Saturday. By that time I'm back at home and finishing lunch.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

But isn't the community aspect what drives new recruits and impulse buys? If all a store provides is merchandise, who will go there in lieu of just shopping online (other than to steal gak, I guess)?

And if it is their plan to slowly push people online, how do they intend to get exposure? I'm really curious about their long-term plan, if they even have one. They impose Draconian restrictions on private retailers that has them reducing GW inventory in favor of competitors*, they close their Canadian HQ, they remove all official events from North America, and now are stepping up their gradual phasing out of their brick and mortar operations.

If I didn't know any better (and hey, perhaps I don't), I would think they are liquidating the company. With the cancellation of 2010 events, they promised new and better things. Let's hope they intend to steal a page from Privateer (just look at their site, the awesome new League system, massive narrative campaigns 2-3 times a year, and general transparency into their inner workings). One can only hope.

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

mattyboy22 wrote:

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

Well we forgot that each army only cost GW $25

mattyboy22 wrote:

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

I worked for companies that had a policy that if a manager quit the company would preform a mini inventory to make sure they were not stealing anything on the way out.

brassangel wrote:
WotC did it because Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: the Gathering don't go through ridiculous price hikes every year. They also are better served at privately owned gaming stores where the doors can stay open until midnight to house weekly role playing groups and Friday Night Magic. WotC is doing fine.

GW offers a product that requires hours to play, assemble, and paint. Again, the FLGS will house that environment much better than a GW store designed solely for the purpose of moving merchandise. Being open during normal business hours is a death sentence in the gaming industry. Most "geeks" aren't available to do their geeking until outside of those hours.

Whatever allows for a better, more streamlined, and hopefully cost effective game: I'm all for it.

What I was getting at was, if Warhammer starts to suck as much as D&D has, I'll be a sad little panda.

Since Wizards took over D&D, and was subsequently taken over by Hasbro, it's gone to hell. They've been just as bad as, if not worse than, GW for releasing a new edition, putting out a whole bunch of supplements, then releasing a new, mostly unnecessary edition that makes half of what they released irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that it's stopped being a role-playing game as far as I'm concerned.

Their "adventures" have become nothing more than a cluster of combat encounters, with no concern for what happens between them, or any sort of character development. 4th ed D&D is little more than a WoW wannabe with mini's rather than pixels. 40K has been going through a similar childification, and if it gets worse, GW will have successfully alienated the people who have gotten them where they are.

Retail stores are really looking for a way to 'stand out' and I'd guess GW has decided that trying to kill online retailers isn't working. Pretty much any store that isn't a 'walmart' is hurting these days, as margins are very tight.

Stores facing this can go one of two ways, it seems: they can become social centers, and look to income from other sources. For a game store, this would be events, table rental, and similar. A dive shop I deal with is doing this as well... They carry less stock (but can order it) but are ramping up training courses, trip planning, and other related income producing activities.

The other route, which it appears GW is taking if these plans are true, is to go to a minimal store presence to keep the name out, and not much else. They have stock, can do a little 'sales' work as needed, but aren't really there for much else. The store is just for 'quick fix' impulse buys, people who don't shop online, and similar.

Ok, i got some more information earlier this week.

Every store has one store operator to its name.

There will be two roaming operators that only work during vacations or other operators

No more Academy

Pay of about $14 an hour starting

Everyone thats wants to stay with GW is losing any veteran status, because on April 3rd everyone is getting layed off and they must reapply for the positions

No regional manager

No area manager

I know for my store, half the tables belong to the manager, so my store will be left with 3 tables.

No store ran events

Fridays and saturdays are the only days that has free gaming for all

The positions will most probably be filled by newer/younger players because the older veterans can't afford to live on $14 an hour

i'll try to get some more info soon

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

But they seem to undercut their own retail wherever they can, what with no shipping and "Direct" items that you have to buy online.

Direct only items should be in the shops. It gives the impulse buyer with online experience a reason to go to the physical shop.

It is still "Direct" from GW. I can't get it from a OLGS or FLGS.

Cutting the morning hours on weekdays makes sense, but the late Saturday start is dumb.

Also, the one staff per shop will bite them more than it saves, IMO. The local GW is usually packed enough that 2 staff are too busy to nadle everything.

With one staffer, people will just leave without buying.

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

For the last 5 years they have been, but that's all apparently changed now.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

For the last 5 years they have been, but that's all apparently changed now.

Have they really?
I didn't get that impression.
If you don't game in the store, and you have an internet connection, there is absolutely nothing to draw you there, in a retail sense.

At least if they carried the Direct items like the Deathrolla Sprue, I might stop in now and again.

I visit my local GW now, only for the BL books.

Edit for clarity.

terminus wrote:I'm really curious about their long-term plan, if they even have one. They impose Draconian restrictions on private retailers that has them reducing GW inventory in favor of competitors*, they close their Canadian HQ, they remove all official events from North America, and now are stepping up their gradual phasing out of their brick and mortar operations.

If I didn't know any better (and hey, perhaps I don't), I would think they are liquidating the company. With the cancellation of 2010 events, they promised new and better things. Let's hope they intend to steal a page from Privateer (just look at their site, the awesome new League system, massive narrative campaigns 2-3 times a year, and general transparency into their inner workings). One can only hope.

I highly doubt they're phasing out their retail chain. They're just reworking it. My bet is that Kirby is still trying to forcefit the UK model in the US. He may be right that it can work, but there are certainly a lot of folks who aren't convinced.

Perhaps we should give Kirby more credit, but as I said earlier, corporate executives usually aren't the most flexible, adaptive individuals. They tend to have a strong philosophy that they feel works, and try to make it work until they succeed or fail. In the latter case, they blame the people under them, lots of blood is spilled, and then the new generation tries to implement the executive's plan. That or the executive leaves for a better job. YMMV.

Not saying there aren't good corporate executives or that Kirby is a bad one. Just saying in my experience they tend to be very single-minded people who are much more used to being listened to than listening to others.

Regarding changes at GW, I wouldn't hold my breath about big campaigns, events, etc. I think the trend here is perhaps even more contraction on that front.


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Liquidice281 wrote:Everyone thats wants to stay with GW is losing any veteran status, because on April 3rd everyone is getting layed off and they must reapply for the positions

Ouch. That's called "corporations behaving badly."

Hulksmash wrote:Not in Cali. Unless they give them permission to leave for 30 minutes for lunch and close the store for 2 10 minute breaks a day they are going to need to have 2 employees. Dang state labor laws anyway

Hulksmash, this is exactly what the small GW does near me (closes for 45 minutes from 2:00-2:45 for the manager's lunch, since he operates the store alone). They're also closed on Mondays.

It's kind of a turn off... I've taken to going to the GW in a mall, which is further away, but has good hours, and there's always at least 2 employees working, usually with a third either working or just hanging out there. It's nice to have more staff to ask things, or in my case since we're playing in a league night, to run things.

I was especially disappointed in the smaller store when I decided to play the GW North American tournament game there- the manager called a guy for me to play (since only 3 of us had signed up) and the guy brought an illeagal army! I didn't find out until after the game... and that was an official event. Major bummer and makes me want to go to the larger GW stores in the area, where there's more than 1 staff member working at a time.

Ya before they closed this year the two shops around me would "close" for the managers lunch.


Which really sucked if you were driving in from out of town to meet someone for a game only to find the store closed fro 45 min. (happened to me twice)

Lets look at it this way. The hobbie has always been about us. Not to sound big headed but it is us. What we model what we kit out. When we play who we play with.

IMHO GW has forgot this long ago and did like every money hungry big biz did and pushed away gamers with higher and higher prices.

Its not so much that they over extended as they forgot a cheap (fill in the blank) will sell to loyal gamers who want the next awesome model for their armies.

When you think about it we have many outlets to put our money into. Why should we bother to buy a model thats overpriced and we know most are. When the same money buys more in another game system,

Good news is if they do go under our models will be worth more.. hehehehe

Well, they're not going under anytime soon, imho. Just cutting store hours is a cost saving move, not anything signaling real trouble.

Personally, I know GW thinks I am expendable, but I enjoy the hobby and so I'll keep on playing it . That part I can do regardless of the company's attitude or corporate practices. Those really don't affect me too much, except when I read on tha intarwebs11!1, and sometimes in the staff's attitude in the store- but they need to make money, so I don't begrudge it too much.

I do think cutting the hours (and locations) isn't a very good idea... like I pointed out, it's already caused me to play at a different GW store, and if that one did similarly, I might need to search out a FLGS (haven't found one yet) to play at.

I'm hoping they shift their focus back to private retailers, like during their Golden Age in the 90's.

what is this "UK model" this Kirby individual is trying to shoehorn in the U.S.?

terminus wrote:I'm hoping they shift their focus back to private retailers, like during their Golden Age in the 90's.

what is this "UK model" this Kirby individual is trying to shoehorn in the U.S.?

What exactly was this golden age? Why happened in it that made it so "golden".

It was a hobby by hobbyists for hobbyists.

Then towards the end of 2nd edition, Andy Chambers proclaimed that hobbyists have jobs, bills, and girlfriends, plus tons of models already, so the company shifted gears towards dumber, simplified rules targeted at churning through kids with mommy's credit card.

Then, as the miniature market grew and competitors appeared, GW didn't want to share shelf-space with "the upstarts", and changed their policies to strangle private and online retailers in favor of their own proprietary stores where it's all GW, all the time, and may god have mercy on your soul if you mention another system because GW sure as hell won't.

Eventually the company evolved into the distant (some would say clueless) corporate behemoth we know so well, driving the original hobbyists/designers out, or marginalizing them to specialty games and Fanatic (which inevitably they also canned), and replaced them with smiling, suit-wearing, corporate shills that wouldn't know respect for their customers from their donkey-caves.

jbunny wrote:

mattyboy22 wrote:

Balance wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:OH I want to see the loss from theft numbers that occur with one person running a store..

Nevermind outside theft, internal theft will be nuts as well.

Internal theft would be easy to identify...

I'm guessing this would have to be part of a program to reduce the store to little more than pure stores, removing the 'community' aspects.

When you do inventory once a year, you can work there for 6 months and quit with a whole bunch of free armies.

I worked for companies that had a policy that if a manager quit the company would preform a mini inventory to make sure they were not stealing anything on the way out.

Unless GW changed its policy, that's not applicable!


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skrulnik wrote:I would think that GW would do what they can to make the stores the "Go To" place for their product.

But they seem to undercut their own retail wherever they can, what with no shipping and "Direct" items that you have to buy online.

Direct only items should be in the shops. It gives the impulse buyer with online experience a reason to go to the physical shop.

It is still "Direct" from GW. I can't get it from a OLGS or FLGS.

Cutting the morning hours on weekdays makes sense, but the late Saturday start is dumb.

Also, the one staff per shop will bite them more than it saves, IMO. The local GW is usually packed enough that 2 staff are too busy to nadle everything.

With one staffer, people will just leave without buying.

File this under "worst ideas ever" right next to Crystal Pepsi and Battlefield Earth.

On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

terminus wrote:It was a hobby by hobbyists for hobbyists.

Then towards the end of 2nd edition, Andy Chambers proclaimed that hobbyists have jobs, bills, and girlfriends, plus tons of models already, so the company shifted gears towards dumber, simplified rules targeted at churning through kids with mommy's credit card.

Then, as the miniature market grew and competitors appeared, GW didn't want to share shelf-space with "the upstarts", and changed their policies to strangle private and online retailers in favor of their own proprietary stores where it's all GW, all the time, and may god have mercy on your soul if you mention another system because GW sure as hell won't.

Eventually the company evolved into the distant (some would say clueless) corporate behemoth we know so well, driving the original hobbyists/designers out, or marginalizing them to specialty games and Fanatic (which inevitably they also canned), and replaced them with smiling, suit-wearing, corporate shills that wouldn't know respect for their customers from their donkey-caves.

AMEN!

hungryp wrote:

terminus wrote:It was a hobby by hobbyists for hobbyists.

Then towards the end of 2nd edition, Andy Chambers proclaimed that hobbyists have jobs, bills, and girlfriends, plus tons of models already, so the company shifted gears towards dumber, simplified rules targeted at churning through kids with mommy's credit card.

Then, as the miniature market grew and competitors appeared, GW didn't want to share shelf-space with "the upstarts", and changed their policies to strangle private and online retailers in favor of their own proprietary stores where it's all GW, all the time, and may god have mercy on your soul if you mention another system because GW sure as hell won't.

Eventually the company evolved into the distant (some would say clueless) corporate behemoth we know so well, driving the original hobbyists/designers out, or marginalizing them to specialty games and Fanatic (which inevitably they also canned), and replaced them with smiling, suit-wearing, corporate shills that wouldn't know respect for their customers from their donkey-caves.

AMEN!

Amen to what. That is a big bunch of revisionist thinking with Rose tinted glasses. I have been in this hobby in the UK 2/3 ed and the US through 3/4/5. For a start AC was just a designer. Second, 2ed was a total CF that made it very difficult to attract friends in it to play. The easier rules in 3ed brought new blood into a hobby that was getting quite staid - 3ed rules were simplied but they weren't dumb. 2ed was a set of the clunkiest slowest ruleset going and full if characters that were way over powered often resulting in immovable force meeting unlimited force.

GW only put roadblocks in internet sales in the US because the US competition laws suck. Also, I guarantee you will find very few brick and morter stores that are unhappy with the anti-internet biase GW has in the US.

Do you actually think that if there was sufficient margin in Specialist Games etc they would have kept it on rather than kill it? I have NEVER seen a game of Epic played in store, very few games of Mordium and only occasional games of Bloodbowl - usually played by people who have a full set of mini's who aren't buying anything. I haven't played BFG in 2 years. This is no different to a car company killing of a loved brand that is just taking too much effort and resources for very little return.

He may have been just a designer, but he was the first to espouse that theory (I wish I still had his internal company memo that got circulated around).

While retailers don't care about their web shenanigans, they continuously made things hard for private shops, making it difficult to acquire new stock or placing ridiculous artificial requirements such as amount of shelf space that must be dedicated to GW-only, or minimal distance between GW stock and that of rival companies, or limiting what kind of promotions they could run. I know because I worked at an LGS through most of highschool, and have been listening to the managers bitch about GW for over a decade since (I say managers because these are guys that ran multiple stores all over the south east United States, and still meet every other year for their own mini-40k/WFB tournament/convention).

And 2nd edition was a rich and detailed game, and while things could get out of hand, there was nothing that couldn't be solved by a vortex grenade. My best memories of 40k games come from those times, and if you played games large enough to mitigate those super characters, or simply played without characters at all (like a larger-scale necromunda basically, where the grunts were the characters), it was a very rewarding experience. I'm sorry you and your friends lacked the imagination to make it work for you, so you needed everything to be standardized and identical, and let dice decide the outcome of games.

And the specialist games were among the best systems ever released by GW (Epic was way better than 40K, Warmaster was way better than WFB, Necromunda was way better than Mordheim or that bs LotR they publish now, even Battlefleet Gothic had its appeal), and during those systems' release and brief product support, they often eclipsed the flagship games in number of people playing. But GW adopted the same policy of pushing a product hard to churn through as many customers as possible, and then abandon it. You don't think people quit those games because support for them became non-existent? They never even finished some of the promised product lines. The same mentality exists now: rumors abound they have redesigned the whole DE range but fear putting in into production due to slow sales of DE in recent years. Hmm, do you think that has to do with the complete and utter lack of attention or new releases for over a decade? Naaah, it must be because people only want Spess Mahreenz.

So I may be viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses, but you need to get off GW's dick.

2nd was f'd up. Third was a pretty balanced, decent game. With 4th and 5th, the rules have been dumbed down a little each time, but the worst part has been most armies taking a step further from balance and closer to ZOMGIWINXORS-Hammer with every release.

terminus wrote:He may have been just a designer, but he was the first to espouse that theory (I wish I still had his internal company memo that got circulated around).

No he wasn't. That theory was esposed by senior management way before AC - things had already been positioned that way. The usual GW "we are a hobby/ we are a professional company" swings and roundabouts had all ready happened several times.

While retailers don't care about their web shenanigans, they continuously made things hard for private shops, making it difficult to acquire new stock or placing ridiculous artificial requirements such as amount of shelf space that must be dedicated to GW-only, or minimal distance between GW stock and that of rival companies, or limiting what kind of promotions they could run. I know because I worked at an LGS through most of highschool, and have been listening to the managers bitch about GW for over a decade since (I say managers because these are guys that ran multiple stores all over the south east United States, and still meet every other year for their own mini-40k/WFB tournament/convention).

Funny. We never had any problems in the UK getting stock or having deliveries on time. Often, in my experience, LGS often complain about getting stock are usually the worst run. We never missed a payment and we were well stocked. We got freebies and help - heck the even offerred to send staff round to help build terrain.

And 2nd edition was a rich and detailed game, and while things could get out of hand, there was nothing that couldn't be solved by a vortex grenade. My best memories of 40k games come from those times, and if you played games large enough to mitigate those super characters, or simply played without characters at all (like a larger-scale necromunda basically, where the grunts were the characters), it was a very rewarding experience.

Rewarding? We are talking about toy soldiers right? As for games, had more fun playing non-GW games.

I'm sorry you and your friends lacked the imagination to make it work for you, so you needed everything to be standardized and identical, and let dice decide the outcome of games.

oooooh classy. The bitter and twisted 2ed guy speaks. Yawn. Been hearing the same old crap about 2ed for years. Curious - you still play it? Virtually everyone I knew ditched it gleefully (both US & UK)

And the specialist games were among the best systems ever released by GW blah blah blah blah

Yes they were. But no-one bought them outside of the initial release year. You seem to think a company is obligated to keep producing everything it makes. It didn't sell. In the UK, everytime there was a sale (yes going back that far) all the Epic blisters were in the bargin bins and still they didn't sell. Like I say - I have NEVER seen a game of Epic played in a store and that is in two countries and mutliple stores.

So I may be viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses, but you need to get off GW's dick.

Awesome. Not only do you have a faulty memory you are stupid enough to make staements with out checking up first. Just ditched all my GW stuff except for some DE stuff for 40k and my ogres. In the past 6 months I have bought exactly 2 WD's and a couple o'pots of paint. May I ask you what you have bought? As per usual the rabid anti-GW-fanboi goes to the fanboi accusation. So amusing.

Bought as far as GW products go? There was some fool on Bartertown selling Death Korps models for 30% off, which I jumped on. Other than that, I just traded a lot of my old unused models from the 90s and extraneous stuff from Hordes to fill out my IG. We actually do still occasionally play 2nd edition 40k and Necromunda (hell, last New Years' we busted out the Rogue Trader book, now there's a clusterfeth of rules) when the old gang gets together, but sadly we all live in different cities now.

Not that I have much time for gaming being at the hospital 60+ hours a week. When I do have the time (whole week off, woo!), 5th edition is all the locals play. Thankfully, I tolerate/enjoy the 5th edition rule-set for the most part (couldn't stomach 3rd after the codexes started coming out, and liked nothing about 4th), minus "true" LOS and some of the particulars of vehicle rules. WM is about the only product I actively buy models for these days, and even then only the brand new stuff that no one is trading on B-town. Don't get me wrong with the "Golden Age" comment; GW was better then than it is now, but it certainly wasn't perfect. Even PP, who are 100x superior as a company aren't perfect, although I'd love for them to buy out GW.

And I take offense at the slight against the LGS's management It's been around for over 20 years, and has only ever grown and prospered, when such shops are closing down all over the place every single day. Maybe (more like undoubtedly) GW treats the UK stores better due to your proximity (they don't seem to be pulling out of the UK stores like they did with Canada and are doing with the US), but here in the States they gave us nothing but trouble.

"Checking up first"? Forgive me for not running a background check first before making an assumption about some guy defending GW on the internet. If you trying to clarify your position as one not defending GW's (d)evolution as a company, but rather that they suck now and have always sucked, then fair enough. And on that note, GW paints suck, and White Dwarf is a $9 catalog of advertisements. I didn't think it could get any worse from the Fat Bloke era, but it has.

I had it confirmed for me today that GW Regional Manager positions are being eliminated, so I'm wondering how GW will enforce cleanliness and other chain-wide standards in their stores after that. The events calendar and the concept of having events for all three game systems every weekend in the stores is also apparently being chucked out as well, so it will be interesting to see how many community members in each store continue or not to show up on weekends. This all will certainly have at least a minor impact on the community building efforts of the past few years. This is getting weirder by the minute.

terminus wrote:I'm hoping they shift their focus back to private retailers, like during their Golden Age in the 90's.

what is this "UK model" this Kirby individual is trying to shoehorn in the U.S.?

They are actually going off the Japan sales model, which is BY FAR AND AWAY their most profitable market, from a percentages point of view (not from total sales, which is still dominated by the US).


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terminus wrote:
And the specialist games were among the best systems ever released by GW (Epic was way better than 40K, Warmaster was way better than WFB, Necromunda was way better than Mordheim or that bs LotR they publish now, even Battlefleet Gothic had its appeal), and during those systems' release and brief product support, they often eclipsed the flagship games in number of people playing. But GW adopted the same policy of pushing a product hard to churn through as many customers as possible, and then abandon it. You don't think people quit those games because support for them became non-existent? They never even finished some of the promised product lines. The same mentality exists now: rumors abound they have redesigned the whole DE range but fear putting in into production due to slow sales of DE in recent years. Hmm, do you think that has to do with the complete and utter lack of attention or new releases for over a decade? Naaah, it must be because people only want Spess Mahreenz.

Wow, where have you been gaming? I've been in GW since 3rd was released (bought my first stuff the week after 3rd hit the stores), and in ALL THAT TIME, I've never EVER seen Epic, Warmaster, or Gothic played in a store. Sure, i knew people who had it, and played it in their garage, but those people had grey Grizzly Adams beards with permanent mustard stains, wore leather bicycle gloves and 80's mesh sleeveless t-shirts, and you could tell they were on their way to the store because the paint started peeling off your models 15 minutes before they got their from their impenetrable aura of BO.

Come to think of it, all they do when they visit the store is alment about the good ol' days too, before they truck back to their mothers' basements.

Necromunda and Bloodbowl and Mordheim were all legit systems, but their big problem is that they were unprofitable. How many bloodbowl players do you know that buy new miniatures on any kind of frequent basis? How many models do you need to have for Necromunda? I've been playing my Necro campaigns with the same 9 models for about 7 years.

How dare a company try to remain solvent or even *GASP!* profitable in these hard economic times.

You want to go live under a rock and remember the good old days of horrible body order in a dungeon of an independent retailer that stank of the most stale cigarette smoke imaginable and play games with the most ass-tastic models ever produced? That's your right, and I wish you a good time doing so. Enjoy your games of Epic, I truly hope you do.

But to blast a company for keeping their bottom line as their top priority is ABSOLUTELY MORONIC, especially in today's financial climate.

I'm not talking about major supports and launches for all these games, they cut even the rudimentary support of Fanatic (which was basically articles on how to convert gak they wouldn't make models for, and things in a similar vein). Don't want to publish a magazine? Go online. But no, everything they release is just BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY!

I'm not blasting them for trying to remain solvent either, I just think they are going about it the wrong way. For example, look at Privateer Press. They are absolutely exploding as a company, and yet they aren't throwing up their own stores all over the place, they communicate with their audience, and provide constant events, tournaments, and a league system, all with prize support, and now a newly redesigned league system with new missions, prizes, and new rules for existing models that they make available to their customers free of charge (gasp!). You know, all of the things GW has all but phased out (at least in North America).

PP are able to turn a profit by keeping their players interested in the game, as opposed to the GW mentality of "buy this newest thing, then GTFO". My hope with this downsizing that GW is doing, is that they are trying to return to that same style where they provide the product and support (in form of events, campaigns, tournaments, etc), and let the actual local stores do most of the selling and recruiting. Trying to become the only source of their own models was the dumbest thing they ever did. Think about it, if you've never played a miniatures game before, but you play CCGs, or collect baseball cards, or simply read comic books or watch anime, and you walk into an LGS (that usually carries most, if not all of those things), and see a bunch of people having fun with 40K and maybe even a demo table, there's a good possibility you could get hooked. But if there is a store that only deals in their particular product, that you have no innate interest in and have never heard of before, what are the odds you'll stop in and drop a few hundred on an army?

And yes, there are a bunch of those old filthy bastards, but most of them play ancient board games from the 80s no one has ever heard from, or some historic recreation games with little lead markers for troops. Any decent store has a rule about B.O., it doesn't need the shiny corporate spit-polish to attract a good audience. The stores that have sloppy management, and are frequented by such lowlives usually end up shutting down. What are the stores that succeed doing? Well, they stick GW in a small corner somewhere, and focus on competitor games and other product lines. Either way, not good for GW.

I'm not blasting them for keeping their bottom line as their top priority, I'm blasting them for having their heads so far up their asses, that they come right back out of their necks again, except this time with their eyes and ears plugged with gak.

At least U.S. wise, it is an interesting read on the GW page regarding Real Estate. Despite the diminishing numbers of employees at stores, it appears they are looking to expand in the U.S.

When they announced the cancellation of all 2010 tournaments, they said they had something special in store for 2011. I hope whatever it is they are doing succeeds, because honestly I've invested too much time and money into their products over the years not to want them to prosper and expand (if only for more people to kick around with my apparently cheesy IG codex).

My god this is depressing...

BrassScorpion wrote:I had it confirmed for me today that GW Regional Manager positions are being eliminated, so I'm wondering how GW will enforce cleanliness and other chain-wide standards in their stores after that.

Fear will keep the local stores in line.....

I find it funny many people here keep saying GW just selling their own product is a bad business. Really? I guess that is why they are still in buisness and you are complaining about them.

There is this GW store in a big shopping Center. I swored up and down, it would only lat 6 months because any shot that opened up in the exact spot didn't last for more than 6 months. Well 10 years later they are still there. If the buisness didn't work, I don't think they would still be there for 10 years or more. Espically where rent is very expensive, and they survive for 10 years or more. So they must be doing something right.

So the buisness of them selling their own product does seem to be making them lots of money. It might not make any sense, but it does work. Otherwise the store wouldn't have lasted this long as it did.

Wow,

What is even more interesting is people chiming in saying I have been playing since 3rd edition, yadda yadda. Playing since 3rd edition doesnt give you much insight, as the model for the company changed around that time. You didnt see what was happening before and how successful it was.

I was working and playing in a store at 2nd edition. I remember when Necromunda and Battlefleet Gothic came out in my store. We would have weekly tournaments and league play for those games all the time, and it was always busy.

Then GW started getting greedy and the 12 store chain here in Dallas said "adios" GW.

Honestly I dont know why GW shut down support for those games. It could not have been very expensive (most of them were metal kits, low to start to produce and make).

I know they brought in money to for the company, its just like all of the sudden they got lazy and said they did not want to work on them.

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

One thing to think about is that Many Gamestops here in the US operate with only one employee shifts, but during peek hours ( Lunch , Drive home, and weekends) they have a change over period where there can be 2-3 employees in store.

In most Metro areas only the "hub" store has more than one employee all day, now around the holidays that is a different story.

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

As a returnee to GW games after a long hiatus and NEVER having had a local GW store (not even in Orlando, 3 hours away) this is an interesting thread.

While retailers don't care about their web shenanigans, they continuously made things hard for private shops, making it difficult to acquire new stock or placing ridiculous artificial requirements such as amount of shelf space that must be dedicated to GW-only, or minimal distance between GW stock and that of rival companies, or limiting what kind of promotions they could run.

This is pretty much the norm in all retail. My anecdote is old but I remember working in a music store that didn't carry Fender direct. The reason was that Fender, Ibanez and Peavey all had huge yearly agreements. If they had carried Fender, they couldn't have afforded to carry the other two. There are also similar stipulations in many retail tenant agreements. That is why malls have the big anchor stores on opposite ends and you rarely see 2 pizza joints in the same shopping mall.

Personally, I think that GW stores are a bad idea. I'd wager that there is more value in subsidizing LGS ability to hold events and grow the game. Very few companies in any sector successfully design, produce AND retail their own products.

yay! I was wondering how long it would take this thread to turn into a trolling flamefast...

Personally, I'm glad 2nd edition is long gone... "OK I'm done moving. Let's stop playing with our army men for a minute and play cards. Ok, done, time to shoot stuff lemmie grab my tape measure... Wait, anyone seen my wargear cards? the were here a second ago..."

The games & rules are always gonna be messed up to some degree and you can't make everyone happy. I don't play for the rules I play for the models and the models are the better now than they ever have been.

But, on topic.. it does kind of suck that they're cutting back but it's a sign of the crappy economic state we're in all around. It worries me a bit because I am planning to open a game store one day, not soon but in a while. Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Necros wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Both.
Ideally you want to be able to open a store and still have your dead end day job to help supplement your income for a few months.

Some stores not being reduced to one person have still had their staff reduced. I know of one store that is now down to just the manager and one part-time employee.

Note that the fact that GW US is now using part-time employees again is a major shift in hiring philosophy of the recent past. For several years now GW US has deliberately hired only people they believed would be career employees and has deliberately not employed any part-timers. The new leaner store staff philosophy has clearly altered their willingness to use part-time staff to fill modest gaps in store hours coverage.

jbunny wrote:

Necros wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Both.
Ideally you want to be able to open a store and still have your dead end day job to help supplement your income for a few months.

Nah I don't have enough spare time as it is, no way I'd be able to run a store plus work somewhere else full time. And I don't want to hire someone to run my store for me, in fact I'm gonna be the sole employee for quite a while till I get off my feet. The whole idea is to have my livelihood in my own hands, not someone else's

Sarigar wrote:At least U.S. wise, it is an interesting read on the GW page regarding Real Estate. Despite the diminishing numbers of employees at stores, it appears they are looking to expand in the U.S.

Which again means that they're committed to the retail chain, and suggests that Kirby still sees value in trying to blanket the country (or at least certain metro areas) with their stores as they do in the UK.

Davor wrote:I find it funny many people here keep saying GW just selling their own product is a bad business. Really? I guess that is why they are still in buisness and you are complaining about them.

There is this GW store in a big shopping Center. I swored up and down, it would only lat 6 months because any shot that opened up in the exact spot didn't last for more than 6 months. Well 10 years later they are still there. If the buisness didn't work, I don't think they would still be there for 10 years or more. Espically where rent is very expensive, and they survive for 10 years or more. So they must be doing something right.

So the buisness of them selling their own product does seem to be making them lots of money. It might not make any sense, but it does work. Otherwise the store wouldn't have lasted this long as it did.

What GW is doing is the definition of bad business, much the same as the stuff currently being perpetrated by credit card companies due to the new regulations that will come into effect at the end of the year (they won't be able to randomly change APR anymore, so they are jacking peoples' APR to 40%, and demanding immediate payment, etc. look up Bank of America on youtube for testimonials). Not only do they have no respect or consideration for their customers, they apparently hold their loyal employees in equal contempt.

Rather than try and improve their market share by making their product more widely available, they impose ever more stringent restrictions on venues, and seem content to maintain profits by selling fewer and fewer products, to fewer and fewer people, for more and more money. This is working for them now due to the borderline criminal profit margin of 70% on their plastics, and the fact that their primary target of adolescents with allowance money don't really care/understand what they're paying for and how much they're paying for it, as long as it's shiny and keeps their attention for a few moments. You can read all about their master plan in their financial report. Like most bubbles, it is bound to burst eventually, though, at which point they will probably blame their customers and employees.


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Necros wrote:yay! I was wondering how long it would take this thread to turn into a trolling flamefast...

Personally, I'm glad 2nd edition is long gone... "OK I'm done moving. Let's stop playing with our army men for a minute and play cards. Ok, done, time to shoot stuff lemmie grab my tape measure... Wait, anyone seen my wargear cards? the were here a second ago..."

The games & rules are always gonna be messed up to some degree and you can't make everyone happy. I don't play for the rules I play for the models and the models are the better now than they ever have been.

But, on topic.. it does kind of suck that they're cutting back but it's a sign of the crappy economic state we're in all around. It worries me a bit because I am planning to open a game store one day, not soon but in a while. Sometimes I wonder if this is a good time to start a biz or if I should just shelf my plans and keep the dead end day job...

Honestly, starting a hobby shop is a risky endeavor in the best of times, but doing so in today's economic clime borders on downright foolhardy.

[MOD EDIT - NO personal attacks, OK?]

terminus wrote:When they announced the cancellation of all 2010 tournaments, they said they had something special in store for 2011. I hope whatever it is they are doing succeeds, because honestly I've invested too much time and money into their products over the years not to want them to prosper and expand (if only for more people to kick around with my apparently cheesy IG codex).

Wait? Carp! Did I miss something? The 2010 Tournies are cancelled?

Vale,

JohnS

There are no official events this year except 'Ard Boyz, and only one Games Day (in Baltimore).

Terminus, you are aware of the GW-supported indy circuit and its finals in Vegas in 2011, right?

Don't know if any of you read plastic legions, but John writes about some of the workers
being affected by these cuts as he talks to them and games with them.

http://plasticlegions.blogspot.com/2010/03/tale-of-two-black-shirts.html

terminus wrote:When they announced the cancellation of all 2010 tournaments, they said they had something special in store for 2011.

"Something special" without qualification is generally a cause for fear, not celebration...

Are ALL stores really going down to one-man? That's what that blog post says (from malfred's link). I thought for sure the store in the mall near here still has at least 2 staff working at a time. There's certainly usually 2 or 3 of them in there... although maybe they're not all on the clock.

Obviously the hours change hasn't applied to them, since they're in a mall, so maybe the "1 employee" working rule hasn't, either. I haven't noticed it, at least...

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

The stores John writes about are street shops.

deitpike wrote:

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

Don't know, but Glen Burnie may be seen as 'the US Bunker' as it's the GW HQ for the country (although the rumors seem to be that they're moving that, too, as production isn't done there anymore).

Answering some questions and clearing up some possible misconceptions from above:

1) Not all shops are going down to one man. It depends on whether or not the hours can be cut enough to make that practical.

2) The Glen Burnie store is a Battle Bunker and the offices in back are an HQ. Some HQ functions were transferred to Memphis when that facility opened a few years ago and some were kept at Glen Burnie. The Glen Burnie HQ is about to close forever and the Battle Bunker will be moved. New locations for the Bunker are being scouted between D.C. and Baltimore. All HQ functions will be in Memphis after June 1, 2010.

Terminus wrote:

Plus, I'm no doctor (at least for another two months, Chaos willing! ), but given your difficulty with the rudimentary memory tasks of 2nd edition, you may have early onset Alzheimer's. I suggest you see your PCP, there are a few nuclear agents showing great promise for diagnosing and differentiating Alzheimer-related lesions.

I'm just wondering, Dakka mods, how many Dakka rules this piece of verbal diarhea violates.

Sounds like somebody got confronted with rebuttals to his feeble arguments, went to bed full of nerdrage and woke up on the douchebag side of the bed this morning...

@DG: Alert his post (yellow triangle) to find out!

I'll even help.

Balance wrote:

deitpike wrote:

Balance wrote:

RTBlank wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:On an unrelated note. Mr.Kirby was at the US Bunker a few weeks ago, and now some REALLY good employees are now gone.

Pardon my barging in with a first post but wait what? US Bunker as in the Chicago (actually Downer's Grove) Bunker? From what I've been told, that's the biggest bunker in the US. Also, the area has some REALLY good employees at the other stores, and one in particular, I haven't seen the past two times I've been in, though he's still listed as the manager on the GW website. Instead, the regional manager was running the store (on Battle Missions release day).

Probably Glenn Burnie.

If it is Glen Burnie, what really good employees are gone from the shop?

Don't know, but Glen Burnie may be seen as 'the US Bunker' as it's the GW HQ for the country (although the rumors seem to be that they're moving that, too, as production isn't done there anymore).

That's fine and dandy.
I just didn't notice any "GOOD" staff gone from the GB bunker any time recently, was wondering who I might be missing?

It's a shame that they chose to take this route, I think they must be listening to bad advice or have their heads up their own a$$es or something. I know we are in a recession and what not, but I think they coiuld have realy used it as an oportunity to expand their base rather than alienate them. Consider that dureing a recession, people have, in general, less disposable income. Consumers then have to decide how to get the most out of their entertainment dollar. What I think winds up happening is that folks basically stay home and try to entertain themselves as cheaply as possible. That means renting DVDs and takeing fewer trips to the movies, eating in instead of going out, etc.. Consider that GW's customers were already spending alot of their recreation time and budget on buying GW merch and playing wh40k or wh, at home or in a friends home. I am no economist, but it seems to me they could have lowered their prices, or run sales to try to get hobbyists to expand their collections and attract new customers. Sure, it would cut into their 70% profit margin, but once this recession ends,(and they always do), GW could start back with the price increases, only with a larger base of customers. I, for one, don't appreciate the fact that they have pulled out of Georgia, they have only one gamesday for my entire continent, and are constantly bending me over with new price hikes and fewer models for me to choose from. I have already had to cut waaay back on my hobby spending, and any new price hikes are going to force me out alltogether. I do,however, find irony in the fact that a company who sells strategy games has such a poor business strategy...

I know GamesWorkshop employees read this forum. However, I'm fairly sure the higherups do not.

That being said, cost cutting was inevitable. GW sells more miniatures than any other company and sells them at a higher price than any other company. If that's true, why aren't the miniatures making money?

Simple..cost.

So all this stuff the higherups are doing are a numbers game.

So why don't the higher ups ask the people running the stores (especially the successful ones) what's the best way to cut cost and make stores profitable?
I guess that would be too easy.

If there's one thing GW is slow to learn about, it's that every region, every store, every place has a different set of circumstances. They are so focused on a set bottom line and a standard set of rules that they forget the human factor of it.

Each store needs to be able to adapt to its region's rules, regulations, circumstances, and culture. Restricting each store to working a certain way is a certain recipe for disaster.

If each store is to be profitable, then EACH store needs to do what it needs to do to be successful.

The restrictions, the requirement to sell, the rules...this is how how you wind up with red shirts trying to sell space marine command squads to a non-marine player.
Which is utter fail.

Of course, one man stores in cheaper locations will cut cost. There's no doubt about that. But profitable? They're missing the point.

In the end, they're forgetting what's really important. I've talked before about being an employee and having higher ups fire back at me, "What about this? What about that? WHat about this cost?"

Well as a customer...Let me do the same. What's my motivation as a customer to buy from a GW store? In the end, as a customer, the GW stores are a terrible value. I can get stuff faster, cheaper, and tax free on the internet. If the stores do not provide a service and their product is more expensive than somewhere else, what chance of being profitable do they have?

THis is a simple, fundamental business question that none of the changes GW is doing will answer. If it's about making money, it's about making each store profitable, not cutting cost regardless of store.

Utter fail.

There's an interesting interview with Rick Priestly further down this forum in which he gives a little insight into how they expanded in the beginning. While I partly agree that everywhere is different, the GW expansion method has been done throughout Europe. The main gripe as I see it is that players won't be able to hang out in GW stores. Given how much people spend each month on average in their stores there's not much in it for GW if all they are doing is providing a place to play without people buying products in significant amounts each month. Dedicated fans will buy products and play regardless of there being a local store. Also many of the higher ups in GW play other games and come from a time in wargaming when there weren't family friendly stores and everything was done by mail order.

@Scuddman

You have to have excellent managers to do what your stating they should do. The reason no single major retail chain does it on a store-by-store basis is it presupposes having an excellent, intelligent, dedicated, and driven manager. At the rates they pay these are not always what they get. Which would wind up costing them more money due to mismanagement then they are likely to lose going to a solid plan model. Just a heads up on that.

Terminus wrote:

Rather than try and improve their market share by making their product more widely available, they impose ever more stringent restrictions on venues, and seem content to maintain profits by selling fewer and fewer products, to fewer and fewer people, for more and more money. This is working for them now due to the borderline criminal profit margin of 70% on their plastics, and the fact that their primary target of adolescents with allowance money don't really care/understand what they're paying for and how much they're paying for it, as long as it's shiny and keeps their attention for a few moments. You can read all about their master plan in their financial report. Like most bubbles, it is bound to burst eventually, though, at which point they will probably blame their customers and employees.

Not to defend GW too much, since I have have my fair share of spite, but 70% profit margins on a molded plastic part is no that bad. Having designed for a company that made similarly sized plastic parts I can say 70% isn't bad. We charged a 150%. When you look at GW as a whole their profit margin is tiny. They had £100M of revenue and only claim £7M profit. That a 7% profit. If you include the money they used to pay off debt, you're looking at 17% profit. Both are sad for a company of GW's size.

One thing I think GW could do to increase profits may seem a bit backwards. They need to reduce prices. My FLGS sells at 20% off GW price (and still make a decent profit) so I feel I can reasonably conclude that GW could reduce price by as much as 30-40% and still make money. Many people may think this seems odd but I play tyranids and would love to buy the raveners but I just can't justify spending $15 per piece on plastic models the size of terminators.

I know I'm not the only one as well. There are a few older guys (50+) at my FLGS who recently got back into the hobby & still use their rogue trader / 2nd ed models. To quote one of them "I would love to use the new Terminator models but I refuse to pay $50 for 5 of them when a 10 man tactical squad is only $35, and that's still a bit high."

So I feel if they reduced their prices I would be willing to buy more. Even a small reduction would help, assume they drop tac squads to $30 instead of $35.

I get my tax return and intend to spend $100 of it on GW stuff. 35*3 = 105 so I'll only buy 2 boxes. (I usually just walk in with $100 cash to avoid over spending). Now if we assume they drop tac squads to $30, 3*30=90 and I'll still have enough money to pay the tax on it.

Anyway that's my 2 cents on how they could help the hobby out long term.

On a side note I just looked at the GW site & 10 bloodletters are $22.00 (Usable in fantasy & 40k) but 10 tac marines are $35.00. seriously. . . wtf.

Many people may think this seems odd but I play tyranids and would love to buy the raveners but I just can't justify spending $15 per piece on plastic models the size of terminators.

Neither could I. If I hadn't been lucky enough to grab a few boxes for $31 US each off of eBay I never would have done a 9 model Ravener brood.

GW has really been pushing the limits of pricing lately. Sometimes they win and people find the models worth it, such as with the Kill Kans set, and sometimes they lose and most people won't buy it even if it's for their favorite range, for example, the Greatswords. The fact is, even with the transition from metal to plastic every army has at least one unit that seems cost prohibitive because buying the sets in quanitity to build a large unit is just too far out there from most hobbyists or gamers consider reasonable.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I know I'm not the only one as well. There are a few older guys (50+) at my FLGS who recently got back into the hobby & still use their rogue trader / 2nd ed models. To quote one of them "I would love to use the new Terminator models but I refuse to pay $50 for 5 of them when a 10 man tactical squad is only $35, and that's still a bit high."

lol, i don't believe you. if there were truly a bunch of 50+ year old guys who played back in RT/2nd edition, they'd be saying "i refuse to pay $50 for 5 terminators when they used to be $5 each and marines used to be 30 for $20! hurr! cough... cough...".

Many of us "old timers" from the Rogue Trader days do use our older models still in our armies and we buy new models too. When the list price seems too outrageous, we turn to eBay and mail order discounters just like nearly all "hobby vets" these days.

no complaints here. i've got a 4000pt blood angel army that i play that is all mostly second edition and older figs. the only things newer than 10 years old in the force are the space hulk termies.

God forbid that a company have a viable business model that actually turns a profit for the owners/share holders of said company. God forbid that they change their business plan to account for the economy or an increased profit demand from their owners/share holders. As a consumer you have a right to disagree with their business plan (discontinuation of products/games) by NO LONGER BEING THEIR CUSTOMER.

As a business owner, I am continually amazed at the lack of knowledge on not only running, but maintaining a successful business.

Blasted customers! They ruin everything!

/begin ramble

Shas'O Dorian wrote: My FLGS sells at 20% off GW price (and still make a decent profit)

Your FLGS is crazy.

Perhaps they are in a cushy lease, perhaps its just one guy and his wife working so they have no payroll, perhaps they have a store the size of a kitchen cabinet with 1 table, but by discounting 20% they sacrifice almost HALF their margin, assuming they use GW itself as their supplier. If they are going through alliance or some other distributor, they are sacrificing MORE than half of their margin.

Any economist, businessman, or person with an IQ over 12 will tell you that is no way to run a profitable retail business. I just laugh my proverbial *ahem* off when people use a horrible business model and/or horrible business practices to blast GW's sound business and fiscal decisions.

What other company is at the CUTTING EDGE of the wargame hobby industry? What other company has invested anywhere close to as much cash into their production quality as GW has? What other company provides such highly detailed, highly posable, purely beautiful models as GW? What other company is doing ANYTHING CLOSE to producing a kit like the Trygon or the Valkyrie? Privateer Press, with their "posable" "plastic" models? Battlefront and their infantry the size of my thumbnail?

The other thing that makes me spit soda all over my monitor while laughing is the notion of "Haha, GW, I beat you!!! I bought my models from an online discounter/E-Bay/20% off!!!!" Silly mouthbreather, GW still got theirs. You know who didn't? Your FLGS. The local guy who put his ass on the line, who in this economy is probably keeping the lights on by licking his fingers and sticking them in his neighbors electrical socket to arc the electricity to his store. THAT is the person you hurt, not GW.

You don't like GW making sound business decisions? Stop supporting them. Simply stop buying their product, period. Buying it on E-Bay still gets GW their 55% of MSRP. And trust me, I can attest to this on a DAILY basis, for every "older guy" refusing to update their asstastic 2nd ed. models because the new, amazing plastic terminators are $50 there are 10 new customers who think that gak is smoking hot and can't wait until next payday when they can pick theirs up.

To sum up (and I wish I could remember what movie this quote is from - I want to say Demolition Man, but I can't be sure): "I bet you would have banned the internet just to keep the libraries open."

(Yeah, I was right, it was Benjamin Bratt's character.)

Or to translate into something Forrest Gump's mom would say so he (and everyone else to thick to understand the concept of cutting expenses) could understand it: "Common sense is as common sense doo-usss."

/end ramble

edited for lawl spelling mistake.

DeathGod wrote:
You don't like GW making sound business decisions? Stop supporting them. Simply stop buying their product, period. Buying it on E-Bay still gets GW their 55% of MSRP. And trust me, I can attest to this on a DAILY basis, for every "older guy" refusing to update their asstastic 2nd ed. models because the new, amazing plastic terminators are $50 there are 10 new customers who think that gak is smoking hot and can't wait until next payday when they can pick theirs up.

Except they are not. All the evidence shows that year on year, GW are selling less physical toy soldier product. Doesn't mean they are in bad financial shape right now as they have reaped short term rewards from IP franchise deals and recent dramatic US$/£UK exchange rate movements, but it is easily demonstrable from their published turnover figures (once you strip out exchange rate gains, the effect of inflation and the "LOTR bubble" impact) that their core hobbyist customer base is declining in numbers and/or appetite (it is impossible to determine whether fewer people are buying, or whether the same number of people are buying fewer models as the maths works out the same ineither case).

Once GW have discovered a way of actually increasing volume sales again and halting the decline in volume sales of 40k and WFB that has happened *every year since 2001* then you can get back to me. Until that point, do some homework on GW's actual financial perfomance, and understand the difference between improving financial efficiency and developing sustainable long term demand for the product. You may get a surprise.

DeathGod wrote:Wow, where have you been gaming? I've been in GW since 3rd was released (bought my first stuff the week after 3rd hit the stores), and in ALL THAT TIME, I've never EVER seen Epic, Warmaster, or Gothic played in a store. Sure, i knew people who had it, and played it in their garage, but those people had grey Grizzly Adams beards with permanent mustard stains, wore leather bicycle gloves and 80's mesh sleeveless t-shirts, and you could tell they were on their way to the store because the paint started peeling off your models 15 minutes before they got their from their impenetrable aura of BO.

Come to think of it, all they do when they visit the store is alment about the good ol' days too, before they truck back to their mothers' basements.

Mmm. Tell that to the CEO, Banker, VP, Lawyer, and others in my group. You might be distracted by the FW minis...


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Modquisition on:

Everyone lets remember Dakka Rule #1: be polite, or risk suspension. If you cannot post in such a manner, than emply the IGNORE function or do not post.

The more friends and acquaintances I speak with at GW the worse this gets. There are people all over GW North America losing their jobs and not just in retail or at the HQ. Many jobs based out of various sites are being moved to Memphis and for those people for whom moving is not an option they will be out of a job along with the people who've had their jobs eliminated. This means that GW North America is losing many of its best, most talented long-term employees in training, retail, customer service, trade sales, management, human resources and more.

My closest GW store goes to 35 hours per week starting today.

Hulksmash wrote:Not in Cali. Unless they give them permission to leave for 30 minutes for lunch and close the store for 2 10 minute breaks a day they are going to need to have 2 employees. Dang state labor laws anyway

Thems the rules here in old Blighty too and well as a ex-employee I can safely say GW simply ignores them. My local stores are also closing now on Tuesdays, it appears it's not just your side of the pond being hit.
Though in all honesty I purchase my toys elsewhere and never go their for gaming, so I'm not too fussed.

So is GW trying to absorb a big financial problem by reducing costs ?

By purchasing your toys else where, it dosn't matter. GW gets their money one way or the other.

The only way to send GW a message is not buy any GW products at all.

So is GW trying to absorb a big financial problem by reducing costs ?

All companies try to resolve their financial problems by cutting costs. It's not the only solution, but it is a partial solution and all companies eventually hit a point where they realize they can save money by cutting costs, then they start looking everywhere for places to do so.

the worst part of all of this?
GW North America were profitable. but, they think by making all of these radical changes, and getting rid of the quality staff who were making the sales, training their staff etc. that they will increase profitability.

BrassScorpion wrote:The more friends and acquaintances I speak with at GW the worse this gets. There are people all over GW North America losing their jobs and not just in retail or at the HQ. Many jobs based out of various sites are being moved to Memphis and for those people for whom moving is not an option they will be out of a job along with the people who've had their jobs eliminated. This means that GW North America is losing many of its best, most talented long-term employees in training, retail, customer service, trade sales, management, human resources and more.

I think I predicted this earlier in the thread. Seen it happen before. One of the savings you get from this kind of relocation is losing the tenured employees that can't make the move. Even if those positions are deemed to be critical, now they can fill them with new hires at Tennessee wages. And yeah, lots of talent is lost in the process.

Quite honestly, I haven't seen one thing that would make me think Kirby values or has ever really valued "talent" in the organization. In my experience, some companies and CEOs do, at least much more than others. Seems like GW has never had any real issue with dumping experienced and/or talented employees, just based on my impressions from over the years.

That's not really a "GW is bad" rant, BTW. Some companies just view their employees as disposable more than others.

deitpike wrote:the worst part of all of this?
GW North America were profitable. but, they think by making all of these radical changes, and getting rid of the quality staff who were making the sales, training their staff etc. that they will increase profitability.

GW North America was/is profitable. But GW North America also includes the production facility in Memphis. The retail side is just barely pulling their weight, and barely breaking even. A buddy of mine who is a former bunker manager (and that's all I'm saying about that) was telling me a couple days ago how last year 5 stores combined for being NEGATIVE 2 million dollars against the bottom line. And that's only 5 stores. Moving the HQ to Memphis saves GW 1.75 million dollars a YEAR. Trimming the fat and redundant positions is not only a good idea, its a responsible idea.

Props to GW for proper and sound business decisions.

Ever consider that cutting the staff doesn't fix the fact that some stores aren't making any money?

There are legitimate reasons to question GW's business strategy here.

Ok, i used to work in a GW store in Northren Alberta, and my old manager is now the manager for westren canada, they are currently planning to open 3 new stores in the area including a battle bunker. I will be honest though, no idea what a battle bunker really is lol.

I am a veteran 40K converter and painter. I also enjoy playing the game. One thing that I miss is that they used to have a huge bitz selection that you can purchase through the online store. I wonder if they can smarten up and reestablish that again. I am willing to pay a premium on new sprues, and pewter parts again. I just can't wrap my head around why they never reintroduced that the past two year.

patzgcrux wrote:I am a veteran 40K converter and painter. I also enjoy playing the game. One thing that I miss is that they used to have a huge bitz selection that you can purchase through the online store. I wonder if they can smarten up and reestablish that again. I am willing to pay a premium on new sprues, and pewter parts again. I just can't wrap my head around why they never reintroduced that the past two year.

There is another thread I think in General Discussion asking where the bitz service went. The general concensus from most dakkites is that it wasn't cost effective and was in fact a financial drain. I also think one of the GW bigwigs(can't remember who) stated the same in a white dwarf when the service was scrapped.

On topic, none of the employees in my local GW store are gone yet and the one I talked to is pretty positive about the moving of the Glen Burnie bunker to a more foot traffic friendly area. The amount of demo games that their mall store does in a month compared to the Glen Burnie bunker is pretty extreme.

Davor wrote:By purchasing your toys else where, it dosn't matter. GW gets their money one way or the other.

The only way to send GW a message is not buy any GW products at all.

What I meant was that I purchase them elsewhere because they're cheaper, I play elsewhere as GW stores in the UK are overrun by pre-pubescent boys who cant play for toffee and cry when you kill their uber lord of killyness and to be honest the staff aren't much better either. Therefore as I dont use the store much the changes in the UK wont affect me much.

I can appreciate things are different in the US.


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DeathGod wrote:Wow, where have you been gaming? I've been in GW since 3rd was released (bought my first stuff the week after 3rd hit the stores), and in ALL THAT TIME, I've never EVER seen Epic, Warmaster, or Gothic played in a store. Sure, i knew people who had it, and played it in their garage, but those people had grey Grizzly Adams beards with permanent mustard stains, wore leather bicycle gloves and 80's mesh sleeveless t-shirts, and you could tell they were on their way to the store because the paint started peeling off your models 15 minutes before they got their from their impenetrable aura of BO.

Come to think of it, all they do when they visit the store is alment about the good ol' days too, before they truck back to their mothers' basements.

In the UK that may be something to do with the fact that GW banned the non-core systems from being played in the stores; a decision I believe they are reversing soon so they can get the vets back into stores.

gurslak wrote:In the UK that may be something to do with the fact that GW banned the non-core systems from being played in the stores; a decision I believe they are reversing soon so they can get the vets back into stores.

They banned their own game systems from their own stores? Wow. I can see banning other game systems like FoW, Firestorm Armada, etc., but their own damn games?

I personally have seen Warmaster, BFG, and BB being played in the Chicago Bunker. There is even a BB league (iirc) that plays on certain nights of the week. Now, it's not like these games don't exist, just that: A) the people that play them don't come into the store or B) they're not that popular and C) a little from column A and a little from column B.

I have always wanted to play BFG, but I just don't have the spare cash at the moment to drop on it.

Wow... This thread is out of control with speculations and assumptions.

It would seem as though everyone discussing this thinks they have a business degree.

Battle Bunkers have more room than other US GW stores and often allow customers to play "non-core" GW products there when the space is not required for events or other more urgent priorities. Bunkers generally have enough space on most days to allow customers to delve into all manner of GW's side products without hurting sales of core product. The smaller stores have much more limited gaming space than Bunkers and so core systems are generally always going to get the table space since those three core games are the only games for which product is on the shelves and immediately available for sale.

Hopefully when the current changes to store hours and staff are complete they will be allowed to stabilize for a while. Damage to the hobby community at each store is inevitable when drastic changes are made to staff and hours. I also hope GW finds itself to be on an acceptable business course so they can focus on their products and marketing. I for one would like to see new GW models and books for years to come.

oni wrote:It would seem as though everyone discussing this thinks they have a business degree.

Some of us don't just *think* we have one.

The more I think about this the more I am disappointed. Not at the action they are taken (I have long contended that it is my belief that in the internet age, their own retail stores are a drain on their resources that they do not need), but at the amount of risk they are prepared to take and the amount of resource they are prepared to expend to get their distribution methodology right.

While distribution is important (and retail is a part of that) I fear they risk taking their eye off the ball, particularly in America (where there is heavy competition from PP), and need to reprioritise gameplay, community involvement and (for me) the biggy: value for money! They surely need to address these areas with as great an urgency and with as good an appetite for risk as their distribution policy.

Until they address value for money (i.e. reverse their "charge metals prices for plastic models" policy for new releases) then they can shave costs as much as they like, but ultimately as their customers will continue to walk away from them, their long term aspirations of growth will be proved to be vapourware.

Sadly, Andy Chambers' comments about the management at GW being focussed on the benefits and problems of the distribution network to the detriment of the gaming experience they offer for sale seem to be even more relevant now than when he made them 5 or 6 years ago!

I couldn't agree more that they lack any sense whatsoever of value for money, even when I get their stuff at a discount I still feel it costs more then it should, how hard can it be to reason that if the stuff was cheaper then customers would spend more as they feel they get greater value for their money and so are happier to buy more of the same product.

I do agree with Osbad and some of us here do have a business degree and what GW has to factor in is value for the money, products the community really wants or needs and access to information about the hobby and gaming.

It all starts with GW’s 2009 Annual Report:

“Other things we have found are: better trade terms - designed to help those who make the serious commitment of having a real store where they can talk to customers and explain how our games work and teach modelling and painting; a more sustainable store opening model - smaller, cheaper stores that open when we want them to be (not mall operators) and can be run by just one member of staff if need be; higher prices - enabling us to respond when costs increase dramatically as the price of tin did last summer; and, very importantly, a better balance between the price of our plastic miniatures and our metal ones - for similar models prices ought to be similar and not less 'because they are plastic'.”

As you can see, many of the “rumors” and statements floating in this blog and others all stem from this paragraph in their Annual Report. It is a fact that they are moving to the streamlined store model but as I read it this is primarily for their new stores. It also can be said that they are trying to find further savings and increasing their revenue by streamlining some of their internal business, hence the move of the HQ in the US to Memphis. Still, as a longtime hobbyist, I both understand their issues but I am still selfish because I love this hobby. While I am in no way an expert at their “business” I do want to make some observations and suggestions and hope that there are a better business than I think and are doing their homework by reading these blogs to gain an understanding of their community.

Starting with value for the money, GW needs to take a hard look at their existing hobbyist, as well as targeting new gamers, especially with what is going on in the economy. Many of us in the community have scaled back what we purchase and I personally try not to purchase anything at the local GW store when I can save 20 or 30% on-line. Even though their operating profit for 2009 is up £6.5M it still appears that their discontinued operations profit/(loss) for the year only minimally went up and this tells me that further cuts externally and internally are coming. Too bad for us because that means price increases and we have certainly seen some price increases over the last year. Again, the last statement in the paragraph above from the Annual Report will give you a good indication that they are pushing to keep prices up even though they might be seeing some saving by converting to plastic models. If they continue to keep the prices where they are and the economy doesn’t pick up, their small profit from 2009 will disappear as they lose existing customers and will fail to gain new ones.

I also think that they need to start to look at what they produce and how. If they are going to create gaming rules that say I can have a certain amount of weaponry for a squad yet I have to buy three kits to get it, is absurd. Take for instance the new Killa Kans. I get one of every weapon in the codex minus the Mega Blasta and if I am going to field this unit it probably won’t be competitive out of the box. I have to buy the Deff Dread to get at least two mega-blastas and or purchase three kits to get a squadron with Shootas or Rokkits. Now I am not going out and buying three kits so they really should put their business hats on and think of how they can make their Bitz business profitable. Obviously, Bitz selling is profitable for almost anyone who does it on the Internet as long as you sell the pieces that people want. If they sold a sprue with just weapons, I would gamble that people would buy it, especially us in the community that love to do conversions. I am certain that they could make this work. They also have to sell models that people want. If they are not careful, we will end up with a hobby that is nothing but IG, SM and possibly Orks. I know that it is expensive for GW to maintain several different races but maybe they could make the less sold races an Internet and build for purchase product. In essence, they only produce what they sell and this certainly can be done with a plastic line of models.

Another area that is frustrating for me has been the decline of information that GW is letting out. What GW is missing is stated in a thread about the pending Necron release. The blog entry reads, "I would like to add that development staff are getting very frustrated by headquarters’ increasingly tyrannical policies – within and between departments – with regards to information restriction. It’s absurd, and unnecessary." This is very troubling and if they lose more of their talented internal staff that do development and other things, then I fear that that the small amount of information that we do get will die away. Just take a look at a White Dwarf from a few years ago and compare it to one from today and the amount of real information has been scaled back tremendously. I think they do ok with their website info but we are in an age when everyone has access and wants access to info instantly. GW needs to wake up and understand that their newbies are in this generation and want their information yesterday. Old timers like me still like their hardcopy WD and can wait a week or two to learn something new but again, GW doesn’t seem to be doing their homework to really understand their customers.

Anyway, I apologize for the long rant and maybe what we need to do is have someone in the community who is insanely rich buyout the company and make it private again or maybe each one of us needs to buy 100 shares of their stock and vote out the existing Board and CEO and replace them with someone who truly loves this hobby and the people like us who support it…..

I also think that they need to start to look at what they produce and how. If they are going to create gaming rules that say I can have a certain amount of weaponry for a squad yet I have to buy three kits to get it, is absurd. Take for instance the new Killa Kans. I get one of every weapon in the codex minus the Mega Blasta and if I am going to field this unit it probably won’t be competitive out of the box. I have to buy the Deff Dread to get at least two mega-blastas and or purchase three kits to get a squadron with Shootas or Rokkits. Now I am not going out and buying three kits so they really should put their business hats on and think of how they can make their Bitz business profitable. Obviously, Bitz selling is profitable for almost anyone who does it on the Internet as long as you sell the pieces that people want. If they sold a sprue with just weapons, I would gamble that people would buy it, especially us in the community that love to do conversions. I am certain that they could make this work. They also have to sell models that people want. If they are not careful, we will end up with a hobby that is nothing but IG, SM and possibly Orks. I know that it is expensive for GW to maintain several different races but maybe they could make the less sold races an Internet and build for purchase product. In essence, they only produce what they sell and this certainly can be done with a plastic line of models.

I agree with most of this, the kanz are difficult though. There isn't enough room on the sprue for three of every weapon they can take so they went with a variety. I'm not as upset with that decision as some as I don't see how (other then a seperate sprue, which they hate nowadays) they could have done the Kanz in a way that would satisfy everybody.

Having one seperate sprue with one each of a RL, BS, burna and KMB would have worked and would have meant both the deff dred and kanz could have had the exact number of required weapons in the box (with the three grotzookas filling up the kanz spures and gubbinz on the DD's sprues) but the downside is that then there would only be one style of each of those four weapons and I think it would be a shame to lose the variety of mouldings that the new kits have.

Plus, as I already noted, GW hates generic sprues taht could be used in nultiple kits, look at their drive to minimize the number of sprues in guard tanks.

I can certainly see your point about the sprues but maybe it is time that GW start listening to their customers regarding what they want.

I am not a production expert and maybe someone can comment on this thread who is but it would seem to me that if they added generic sprues with various weaponry and sold them as bitz, they would find that one, they might actually sell more regular kits because more people want to do conversions, and two, the sprues would actually sell. No overhead costs for the sprues if they are not including packaging and only sold on-line. I think I read somewhere once in some GW corporate stuff that the Russ sprues and others were streamlined to reduce the packaging requirement and thus reducing the production cost of the sprue and the packaging.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to reiterate something you did bring up and that is that GW corporate hates almost everything that their customers want and are telling them. I am certain that many businesses fail because they don't listen to their customer and listen more to the Board members.

Completely agree, a single equipment sprue for each race with one each of common vehicle heavy weapons (but not unique ones like kill kannons/grotzookas etc) and a number of special/heavy weapons for troopers plus extra bits (ammo grots/common wargear options etc) would surely sell.

That's sort of what they did with the dark angels/black templars upgrade frames and despite not playing either I really liked the execution of those. Plus they do that battlewagon sprue for £8 and that's only good for one kit!

Hulksmash wrote:Not in Cali. Unless they give them permission to leave for 30 minutes for lunch and close the store for 2 10 minute breaks a day they are going to need to have 2 employees. Dang state labor laws anyway

A GW store near here has two employees (including the manager). So, on some Saturdays, I only see the manager in the store. Which means, he takes working breaks? He's a good manager to give his only other employee Saturdays off but how does he get arround the breaks and lunches? They are not open on Mondays already. Are they going to be closed on Tuesdays as well? We, regulars, tried supporting them by purchasing through their store only but it seems regardless of how much support the regulars give to their stores, the big shots in GW will do as they like.

Then there are stores like the one in Glendale Mall which seems to be empty everytime I visit them and yet has as much space as the LA Battle Bunker. IMO mall stores should close and the money saved should be used to support the smaller stores in their expansion.

oni wrote:Wow... This thread is out of control with speculations and assumptions.

It would seem as though everyone discussing this thinks they have a business degree.

Not only that, but some of us also have 20+ years of business experience in retail, manufacturing and warehousing.

As Osbad I think pointed out, you can only focus on below the line for so long. If you have a declining\ stagnant revenue stream in your main product lines (which you have if you strip out estimates for BL, FW, LOTR and currency fluctuations) at some point it is going to hurt and start a death spiral. I have seen a couple of death spirals in my time - not pretty. Many of us have believed that true volume of product sold has been going south/ stagnant for the last 5+ years.

I agree with the one man operation for during the week. That makes sense. However, it makes zero sense at a weekend. There will be a lot of hidden cost in the shape of lost revenue from that model as well as an increase in shrinkage. It is so basic I fail to understand why they do it - they must have analysis that shows reduction in costs is greater than estimated loss of revenue + shrinkage. I would love to go through how the analyse things to support their decisions. would be fascinating.

The Battle Bunker in Glen Burnie, MD is not immune to cost cuts even before it is moved later this year. Starting April 7 the Battle Bunker will be closed on Wednesdays. Wednesday was chosen because some of GW's other area stores are already closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, so this way not all of the stores in the area are closed on the same day.

Warlord Imp wrote:Then there are stores like the one in Glendale Mall which seems to be empty everytime I visit them and yet has as much space as the LA Battle Bunker. IMO mall stores should close and the money saved should be used to support the smaller stores in their expansion.

The site lists a new store "opening soon" at 919 South Central Ave in Glendale, which I assume is on the street itself.

Presumably the mall location will close then?

Simon

I forsee the owners of GW selling GW to another individual in the near future.

I sense they are ramping up the books for a sale.

IDK! haha

RogueMarket wrote:I forsee the owners of GW selling GW to another individual in the near future.

I sense they are ramping up the books for a sale.

IDK! haha

The owners would be all of us who hold stock.......and the price is not high enough yet for me to let go of it.