ok guys i didnt know where to put this thread so my best guess was here.

quick background. i quit warhammer 2 years ago or more and just sort of came back. i see theres a new IG codex so i was all yay until i look at reviews and information here on dakkadakka and all i can say is: what a load of tosh. all i would have prefered in the new codex is to include details on new models and the new ordering system for officers. but what happens? the platoon and company organisation goes down the drain. I read that in a platoon which can have up to 5 squads, you can also have 4 heavy weopons squads...... wtf i know its not supposed to be realistic with military terms but 50 men, plus 4 heavy weopons squads..... thats not a platoon, thats more like a company. i want IG to be depicted as a tactical unit which works alongside tanks spread out. by the look of the new rules for them it ends up being a horde. just as i read the end of 'gunheads' by steve parker ( i think) commissar yarrik is that the end surrounded by ranks of IG, and he orders them to march along an open plain towards orks, [edit] another stupid thing. i just do not like the new IG codex. i would very happily use the old codex in a battle even if it doesnt to contain the order system. its just more realistic for an army. i am finished.

You don't have to play them as a horde. Veteran Squads allow you to use a lot less guys and more tanks.

but yet they cost alot. i preferred the old codex which worked as a company. you had a CCS and support platoon, then 2 or 3 Infantry platoons along with attached armour. and if you were doing a huge army you can have multiple companies with maybe heavy weopon platoons

Wow.. you contradicted yourself a lot there. first you seem to complain about the fact that it has some more hordy aspects, but in the end you say you love the ranks of IG marching towards Orks...

Also, It's not like codex's have one preset list and thats it you know...

You just seem pissed because its not exactly what you wanted.

The important thing about the new Guard codex is that it's FLEXIBLE. This is achieved with the inclusion of very flexible Veteran squads as Troops. The sort of army you field is all in the way you choose your Troops.

You can field a horde of manpower (which is what 40k Guard are often depicted as) without instantly using up your 6 troops slots, by taking Platoons. A single platoon could be 25 men or 100. Up to you.

Or, taking all Veteran Squads with Forward Sentries gives you an infiltrating Tanith-style light infantry company.

All Veteran Squads with Grenadiers give you a carapace-equipped heavy infantry company.

Or you can take just two Veteran Squads and field an Armoured Company with all the Tank Squadron options, or a scout company with Roughriders and Sentinels, or a psychic circus with PBS and Primaris Psykers as your HQ choices.

It's flexible. You can still field a 3ed list if you want, but now the Troops area includes most of the things you used to have to use Doctrines for.

i never said i loved, or even liked the ranks of IG marching towards Orks, i just mentioned that as another horde idea which i despise. this is the 41st milennium, not a 19th century battlefield.

It used to take 46 models to make a leagal force, now you can do it in 25.
With the Valks you can make a compleatly Air Mobilt Force.
With 2 Veteran Squads in Chimarias along with a Single Comisar you can amke a compleate Armored Fist Company and never have a Guardsman get his boots dirty.
Or you can load up on Infantry including conscrips and have a "Without Numbers Army"
My only complaint is that you cant make a compleat Horse Cav force.

dark6spectre wrote:i never said i loved, or even liked the ranks of IG marching towards Orks, i just mentioned that as another horde idea which i despise. this is the 41st milennium, not a 19th century battlefield.

Erm, I don't know how big on fluff you are, but in the 41st millenium, they are flinging about 100000 times more people at anything that seems hostile than in the 19th century....

The only things more numerous in 40k universe than IG are nids and orks.

i will see if i can get my hands on the copy and rummage through, but i am sure there will be features which i will dislike. what i would atleast prefer is a more detailed list for armies. so that atleast some armies in IG will have better features. such as yes doctrines which i heard have been taken out. doctrines gave more variety. think of it as space marine chapters, just in IG. you have the bog standard IG (i.e ultramarines, imperial fists etc) and then unique IG (Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves in the form of elysians, krieg, maybe even savlar chems etc)


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yes but in the 41st milenium they are flinging that number because its an entire planet under war. but do you ever read IG stories (gaunts ghosts, Cadian blood, ice warriors, rebel winter etc) of men 3 ranks deep, in step marching head on into enemy.... no.

There is actually a perception that the IG are now the power race under 5th.

UK GT final did not corroborate this as they did not place (mainly Air Cav I believe from buddies there).

One of the lists which I hear is now the "cookie cutter" IG list involves vanilla MRBT with max foot infantry.

Avoid upgrades.

Subject to opinion

Most of the "Cookie Cutter List" I have seen are list made to conform the the 4e list before the 5e came out and are made up from thier old list. most of the "New List" I have seen are Armored Fist or Air Cave List.

@ Anpu42 : Actually you can get by with 21 models, where before you had to have more than that just for a single Troop Choice, and needing 41 models (including a Chimera!) to make a legal list (5man HQ, 5man+2x10man Troop and 1vehicle+10man Troop).

The new IG codex has a lot of little problems that make big holes and break a lot of tradition. But in my opinion, it is the most fluff-loyal version of IG ever written and is a superlative codex. It is neither broken nor cheese, and contains loads of flexibility. Just my opinion however.

Anpu42 wrote:Most of the "Cookie Cutter List" I have seen are list made to conform the the 4e list before the 5e came out and are made up from thier old list. most of the "New List" I have seen are Armored Fist or Air Cave List.

Armored fist I can't speak for, Air Cav was in abundance at the UK GT Final but did not perform at all. I can't speak for other tournaments.

The "glass cannon" may be coming out over a 6 game tourney. Would be interesting to hear other views.

dark6spectre wrote:i will see if i can get my hands on the copy and rummage through, but i am sure there will be features which i will dislike. what i would atleast prefer is a more detailed list for armies. so that atleast some armies in IG will have better features. such as yes doctrines which i heard have been taken out. doctrines gave more variety. think of it as space marine chapters, just in IG. you have the bog standard IG (i.e ultramarines, imperial fists etc) and then unique IG (Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves in the form of elysians, krieg, maybe even savlar chems etc)


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yes but in the 41st milenium they are flinging that number because its an entire planet under war. but do you ever read IG stories (gaunts ghosts, Cadian blood, ice warriors, rebel winter etc) of men 3 ranks deep, in step marching head on into enemy.... no.

Then you are obviously playing them wrong? I mean, I don't know about you, but if I have an advantage in numbers, I'm not gonna waste that on marching them towards an enemy, which will hands down own you in CC anyway. So please, try thinking before you throw out this garbage.

I don't mean to be a prick, but your just coming off very shortsighted. And you don't even have the codex yet.

OH, and every bloody codex has something someone dislikes, there is no such thing as a perfect codex.

but ive glanced it through, and got opinions from friends who agree with me. and i seem to be playing them right as it goes by the army list. You can't actually play them wrong unless you do not follow the codex.

That... doesn't even make sense... and once again, how many lists have you tried? Have you tried every single set up possible for the units your using? If not, go do that, then please come back.

And don't tell me you dont have the models, thats why we proxy new stuff.

And if you then still don't like them, then sell your IG and start something new that is more to your liking.

Ouch dude

I'm not saying this to offend him or anything, but smack talking an entire codex on some suggestions and hunches just smacks me as ignorance, especially with a codex that has more then proved it's self lately.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion on the fluff and organization of the army list, but the IG is hands down one of the very best codexes in terms of putting together a power army list. You can say it sucks from an organizational standpoint (again, whatever floats your boat), but it is VERY powerful on the tabletop.

all i am saying as that the new army list seems utterly stupid here: 1 platoon command squad, 2-5 infantry squads, 0-5 heavy weopon squads,, 0-2 spec wep squads, 0-1 conscript squads.

does that sound like a platoon. this is giving people the chance to field 1 troop choice filled up with those options. its pathetic. a platoon should only consist of a platoon HQ and infantry squads, with maybe the option for 1 heavy OR 1 special squad. its utterly stupid. and i already have an army to my liking. its called 4th Edition IG. and yes, it makes complete sense. you can never play an army WRONG unless you are not following the rules. the Codex is set up PRIMARILY for Hordes.


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added to the first bit, it just bigs up the troop choices even more compared to other armies. now you can possibly destroy an enemy army with just 1 troop choice. its just too great.

Try a few builds and see how it goes mate

Edit: Otherwise its just theoryhammer which is why people are giving you stick

I've never seen anyone actually bring a platoon with all of the allowed units. The new codex turned out to be commonly played less hordey than the previous one.

Raxmei, the thing is, it allows all those units to be used. everything just sounds too hordey to my liking. there should be penalties. and as soladrin said it has proved itself lately, well that might be because it has gone too far in making IG better. its turned out that now an IG trooper is completely and utterly weak, even though they are human. the soldiers should be a tad less in number and maybe better in strength as IG arnt as weak as they should be. i mean, IG troopers should be more level with Tau maybe dark eldar.

dark6spectre wrote: i mean, IG troopers should be more level with Tau maybe dark eldar.

uhhh...no.

Oh jesus, this thread. This thread

Hehe.

Something about horses and water...

CMAC what? anyway think about it. Tau are very humanoid and they have armour. Cadians have armour. bit of a similarity. only difference is they have smooth body fitting armour and floaty stuff while IG have thick, blockey armour and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

Ah, so that was a troll. Good one!

?

I think I see where you are coming from. It's a fluff opinion.

However what I think what people are suggesting is that the 5th ed IG codex is quite strong and there are many options which can create an enjoyable list to play. Maybe try a few and see how YOU like it. Without trying it is hard to gauge how it plays out. If you really don't enjoy it, you can see if your opponents will agree to playing the 4th ed codex. However this may cause quite a fw difficulties, so I suggest you play with what GW have written.

Let us know how it goes!! Enjoy

You think the 5th ed codex is bad go back to the days of the 3rd ed rulebook list. You could have platoons of rough riders with sentinels as part of the platoon. A modern military platoon all on horseback alongside walking tanks, that doesn't sound like a platoon to me!!!! OMGWTFBBQ!

btw whats fluff?

Fluff Definition
Fluff is the collective term for the background, stories, artwork, and fictional history of Games Workshop's world of Warhammer 40k. In the twenty or so years that Warhammer 40k has been around, hundreds of books, articles, art pieces, etc were created to represent the Games Workshop universe. These pieces of fiction are often represented in the armies available to play in Warhammer 40k. Often, characters, battles, and tactics are gleaned from these written sources, and Fluff players rigidly adhere to their respective backgrounds. Building an army list comes easily to Fluff players, as they choose their characters and units based on whichever models appeal to them, or whatever is most representative of their chosen background. Like players termed WAAC, a Fluff player is often more than the sum of his parts.

dark6spectre wrote:btw whats fluff?

Basicaly it all the stories and background regarding a subject. Gernaraly when you read a unit discription it is the the part befor the Rules

Anpu42 wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:btw whats fluff?

Basicaly it all the stories and background regarding a subject. Gernaraly when you read a unit discription it is the the part befor the Rules

Gotcha by 41 seconds

cmac wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:btw whats fluff?

Basicaly it all the stories and background regarding a subject. Gernaraly when you read a unit discription it is the the part befor the Rules

Gotcha by 41 seconds

I cheated with google.

I return to Shanghai tomorrow, then google will be censored

Well I expected to come slap down some fool on how IG do not suck...and I get this thread. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Well I expected to come slap down some fool on how IG do not suck...and I get this thread. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside

It's all about the positive vibes man! Share the love.

Btw: with the sig, Tony is part of our Shanghai gaming group (all 5 of us in a city of 20-25m), he is 15 and Chinese and i'm "trying" to school him to be a better man. A second chance maybe? I may be wasting my time.

I played the last 3 guard codexes. The newest one gives you a ton of options, although there are some units that did not get much love from the writer in mho. I do miss the doctrines, but they do give 90% of the options as either upgrades or paticular characters. They are simplifing the books to new gamers I think. They also cut out many of the nid bio morphs, and the space marine trait system. This is both good and bad but understandable.

I love the new orders. I use the Creed/Kell combo and Vox's for every one. The only unit I have problems with is my RRs who cant make a leadership test to save thier life [and usaly in means life or death]

cmac wrote:

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Well I expected to come slap down some fool on how IG do not suck...and I get this thread. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside

It's all about the positive vibes man! Share the love.

Btw: with the sig, Tony is part of our Shanghai gaming group (all 5 of us in a city of 20-25m), he is 15 and Chinese and i'm "trying" to school him to be a better man. A second chance maybe? I may be wasting my time.

OK, I go for expected English on a flag basis because I have no other way to judge. Sounds arbitrary, but I have to differentiate somehow. Sig changed.

This thread made me 'lol'.

Seriously....whut? WHUT?!?

Your arguements make no sense and you seem to be getting all angry that humans are a weak-ish race stat-wise, which we are. You're then complaining that the Guard are a horde army, which they always, ALWAYS have been, whether focussing on tanks or infantry. Then you seem to go on a rant about how your friends all tell you Guard suck and you agree as well because you've glanced at the Codex.

Seriously dude; go and read the basic background on the 41st Millenium, and then read the Guard background too.

You're getting all angry for....no good reason whatsoever.

L. Wrex

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:
OK, I go for expected English on a flag basis because I have no other way to judge. Sounds arbitrary, but I have to differentiate somehow. Sig changed.

Cheers dude, i'm trying to get him to add something that will indicate the non-native speaker status. Some of his threads are absolute shockers. The charity case only lasts for so long however..

I miss the 2nd editon Codex :(

Vhalyar wrote:Ah, so that was a troll. Good one!

Protip: Trolls can only be killed with fire or acid.

I find your IG - Tau/DE comparisons hilarious.

Awesome.

If you are so worried about the fluff, you would realize that the fluff is perfectly fitting for the IG. They are innumerable, being drawn from the thousands of planets of the Imperium of Man. Their technology is not going to be as advanced as others who have to provide technology for a lot fewer soldiers (eldar, tau). Ever been in the army? Those of us who have know that it is hard to stretch out weapons and gear when the army goes through too rapid of an expansion... I remember the look on my battlebuddy's face when we got handed M16A2s while other companies were doing checks on their brand new M4s with the fancy RIS gear. We had to get the RIS foregrips from another manufacturer, because there were not enough of the M16A4's to go around.

Anyway, point being: the fluff is fine. If you don't like how the army has changed since last edition, that is not a reason to say it sucks. It obviously doesn't, because of the reasons mentioned above.

Wait so your forming an opinion on something you haven't read or tried? I gotta admit after coming back to 40K after a few years and reading the 5th ed i was a little vexed about removing the Doctrines, but considering that we can now field tanks in threes (I cant remember if we could do that in 4th ed) and we have a hell of a lot more to choose from with regards to Heavy support plus what has been said about the platoon changes. My personal opinion, why yes I do like the idea of a horde of troopers ready to laser spam every thing that got too close and blow everything else that isn't to hell with a manticore. If your not into that use veteran squads for a smaller harder fighting core.

From a gameplay perspective, the current IG dex is one of the best they've ever had. It puts IG as the gunline army of 40k. I especially love the flexibility of the current IG dex. One thing is for sure, a good IG army/player always puts the fear of the Gods in my army.

dark6spectre wrote:all i am saying as that the new army list seems utterly stupid here: 1 platoon command squad, 2-5 infantry squads, 0-5 heavy weopon squads,, 0-2 spec wep squads, 0-1 conscript squads.

does that sound like a platoon. this is giving people the chance to field 1 troop choice filled up with those options. its pathetic. a platoon should only consist of a platoon HQ and infantry squads, with maybe the option for 1 heavy OR 1 special squad. its utterly stupid. and i already have an army to my liking. its called 4th Edition IG. and yes, it makes complete sense. you can never play an army WRONG unless you are not following the rules. the Codex is set up PRIMARILY for Hordes.

You can still build IG lists that look like the old lists, it's just that now you're not required to - you can change things up to represent an airborne force, or a mechanised force of elite troops or a defensive network of heavy weapons.

You're right that this means people can produce lists that don't follow modern military structure... but 40K has never been about replicating modern militaries. It never has and it was never meant to. It's heroic fantasy, blood opera really. The design of the IG draw from a range of historical periods and units for its inspiration, to produce a stylised but entirely unrealistic fighting force. They fight other ludicrous but stylish armies - this isn't a bug but a deliberate and explicit design feature.

If you want something focussing more on realistic modern warfare then Flames of War might be more your thing. You still end up with companies with unrealistic levels of support, but the core is still a company structure, and the support isn't as excessive as 40K.

I personally think the IG Codex is the very best one out there....

JEB_Stuart wrote:I personally think the IG Codex is the very best one out there....

It's the only one that frightens me in the right hands, to be honest. The sheer amount of armor IG can take is a bit scary.

Locclo wrote:It's the only one that frightens me with the right wallet, to be honest. The sheer amount of armor IG can take is a bit scary.

Because, lets be honest, all that armor is expensive.

i love the IG codex, and i don't think you can really argue against it the way you are since it has so many options, that you can really format your army to fit your needs to a much greater extent than the old codex allowed you too. this makes it a much better codex, since it gives the most amount of people options to make an army which works for them.

dark6spectre wrote:CMAC what? anyway think about it. Tau are very humanoid and they have armour. Cadians have armour. bit of a similarity. only difference is they have smooth body fitting armour and floaty stuff while IG have thick, blockey armour and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

This is correct. I hate the new Guard 'dex, it's so unrealistic. I mean, Space Marines are humanoid and have armor too, why are Guard so much weaker? And Tyranids. Tyranids have carapaces, and Guard have carapace armor! The only difference between Guard and Tyranids is that Guard have stay-on-the-ground stuff and Tyranid have walky, chompy stuff.

What I'm saying is that Guard should be like Tyranid Space Marine Tau, only with blocky armor and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

The OP best be trollin'.

Rube wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:CMAC what? anyway think about it. Tau are very humanoid and they have armour. Cadians have armour. bit of a similarity. only difference is they have smooth body fitting armour and floaty stuff while IG have thick, blockey armour and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

This is correct. I hate the new Guard 'dex, it's so unrealistic. I mean, Space Marines are humanoid and have armor too, why are Guard so much weaker? And Tyranids. Tyranids have carapaces, and Guard have carapace armor! The only difference between Guard and Tyranids is that Guard have stay-on-the-ground stuff and Tyranid have walky, chompy stuff.

What I'm saying is that Guard should be like Tyranid Space Marine Tau, only with blocky armor and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

glad so see someone agree. i need to change my post name to :Imperial guard overall, now suck. Ok space marines is a bit too far, they deserve to have small but powerful numbers. but if you think about it, cadians are similar to our modern militaries. and maybe others too. the thing is IG is shown out as completely weak compared to units similar to them.


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sebster wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:all i am saying as that the new army list seems utterly stupid here: 1 platoon command squad, 2-5 infantry squads, 0-5 heavy weopon squads,, 0-2 spec wep squads, 0-1 conscript squads.

does that sound like a platoon. this is giving people the chance to field 1 troop choice filled up with those options. its pathetic. a platoon should only consist of a platoon HQ and infantry squads, with maybe the option for 1 heavy OR 1 special squad. its utterly stupid. and i already have an army to my liking. its called 4th Edition IG. and yes, it makes complete sense. you can never play an army WRONG unless you are not following the rules. the Codex is set up PRIMARILY for Hordes.

You can still build IG lists that look like the old lists, it's just that now you're not required to - you can change things up to represent an airborne force, or a mechanised force of elite troops or a defensive network of heavy weapons.

You're right that this means people can produce lists that don't follow modern military structure... but 40K has never been about replicating modern militaries. It never has and it was never meant to. It's heroic fantasy, blood opera really. The design of the IG draw from a range of historical periods and units for its inspiration, to produce a stylised but entirely unrealistic fighting force. They fight other ludicrous but stylish armies - this isn't a bug but a deliberate and explicit design feature.

If you want something focussing more on realistic modern warfare then Flames of War might be more your thing. You still end up with companies with unrealistic levels of support, but the core is still a company structure, and the support isn't as excessive as 40K.

actually i would have started flames of war had the model infantry look so gay. its uber-size heads. if it was 40k scale i would definetely be already playing it

OMFG. So, OP is complaining that the new IG codex lets you build armies that don't fit his vision of the IG (but still let him do that).

The best thing about the new codex is the variety of builds available. You can build an infantry platoon with 100+ men for a heavy infanty company, a platoon with 35 guys in chimeras for a mech infantry platoon, 50 guys on foot for a light infantry platoon, 55 guys with 18 heavy weapons for a heavy weapons platoon, etc, etc.

Why is this a problem?

ETA, the codex now has quite a few strong builds and hordes isn't one of the best.

I don't think Rube was serious, he must have been sarcastic in that reply because nobody is that ignorant.

Cadians are nothing like our modern military. Join the army and try it. I WAS an 11-C in the US Army, and if you had ever served you would know that.

Try reading some of the posts. It is apparent that the IG is a caricature of a human military force. Read some literature man, because right now you are just being ignorant.

If you don't like them, don't play them. Don't post a hate thread on them, since a lot of people play them and obviously like them it just looks like you're sour grapes. Go and play another game then... there are more realistic depictions of warfare out there.

Stop wasting our time with this drivel.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Scott-S6!

dark6spectre wrote:actually i would have started flames of war had the model infantry look so gay. its uber-size heads. if it was 40k scale i would definetely be already playing it

Heh, I stopped playing because the FoW battlefield didn't look as cool as the 40K battlefield. The way I see it, it'd be great if there was a minis game with a focus on more realism than 40k that looked as good as 40k but there isn't. But if we play 40k you have to take it on the terms of what it is and what it sets out to do, and complaining that the IG aren't forced into a modern military org chart is definitely not taking 40k for what it is.

Wow. I just started playing a few months ago and this thread makes me laugh. I picked up IG because I like armor, I like the fluff, and I liked the idea of rolling dice by the fistful. I have found them to be incredibly destructive when in the right situations, and tear-jerkingly pathetic when in the wrong ones. Hm, just like the fluff.

Yes, the platoons are the size of present-day companies. Yes, this is because guard operates on a 3-5 to 1 handicap against almost everyone else. Yes, the tanks look like something out of WW1 and the tactics vary between trench warfare and modern squad combat. So what?

The point of the existing codex is to make IG flexible. And allow you to field armies of 200+ models within the rules.




Aside: Anyone who thinks that IG should be like 'Nids or SM or even MEQ needs to be examined. With a cluebat. Guard has never stood a chance against SM or 'Nids, all they do is kill as many as they can before they die. (Nice sarcasm Rube, but apparently its been taken as truth)

meaning there should be 2 completely seperate codex. i.e:

Hordes of the Imperial Guard


Imperial Guard who have more than one brain cell and realise that forming ranks of 3 on an open plain against an advancing swarm is stupid. these guys should have better stats as humans arnt actually that bad as it seems

But you can do all of that in one Codex
Hord
-1 Lord Comisar and multible Infatry Plattons with Conscrips and Kchekov

Modern Infanty Platton
-CCS Loded with Plasma and Charapace [Special Forces]
-2x Stormtroopers [Speical Forces]
-4x Veteran Squads in Chimerias [Bradlies/Strikers]
-3x Valkieries [UH-60 Blackhawks]
-3x Valkeries with LC upgreades [AH-64 Apachies]
-3x Vendetas [A-10 Thunderbolts]
-3x Russes [M1A2 Abrams]
-3x Basalisk [M109 Paldins]

You really like focusing on the allowing of hordy-type armies witht he new codex. Heres a though, just ignore it. You can make a fast-combat, squad-based army easily within the rules, and if you play well even do very well with it.

Why does it matter if it allows WW1 tactics and force structure? They both feature often in the books. Go read Rebel Winter and 15 Hours.

already have both are fine because its obvious they would be entrenched, trenches are fine. i mean more 19th century warfare. read the epilogue of gunheads with commssar yarrick. CRINGE!

I've failed to read, anywhere in the Guard Dex', an entry that says "Platoons MUST have 5 10-man Squads"

If it's a fluffbuild you want, then you could break down those 5 into smaller platoons, and just field

a) More platoons with less men in each

b) A larger variety of units to compensate for smaller platoon sizes.

Either way, you have solutions that you can use. If you'd rather sit and complain, then you're playing the wrong army, and possibly the wrong game.

And you're worried about 19th Cen. tactics when there are Cathedrals flying through Space and superhuman warriors with fully auto rocket launchers?

This guy is just trolling to up his post count. He can't POSSIBLY be this stupid.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:This guy is just trolling to up his post count. He can't POSSIBLY be this stupid.

Oh trust me, there've been folks. It's possible, but judging by his circular logic, I'm going to say you're right

Well, he outright ignores posts and keeps spouting the same filth. He doesn't want to admit that the IG are NOTHING like the real army. Seriously, I wish he would join up so he could see what a moron he has been to compare the two.

I normaly run what I call a Hybrid List
The Infantry Platoon sets up in a Gun Line with one my Veterans Either Strong Left or Right and my Rough Riders on the Other. I have Creed “Tactical Genius” One of my other Veterans [Usually Harker]. I Gun Line until I get my Reserves and Either Mech the Vet or the run out the RR to support them. The other goes mobile next. I also Mix it up with Marbo, or Airdropped Storm Troopers and soon I hope some Valks. This is a very mobile Army if I need it to be with up to 6 “Move, Move, Move!” Orders.

LAPD

Company Command Squad (Close Combat Weapon x3; Lasgun x1; Carapace Armour; Medi-pack; Vox Caster; Laspistol x1; Sniper Rifle x1, Chimera)
-1 Lord Castellan Creed (Carapace Armour; Refractor Field; Hot-shot Laspistols x2; Supreme Commander; Tactical Genius)
-1 Colour Sergeant Kell (Carapace Armour; Laspistol; Power Fist; Power Weapon; Regimental Standard; Listen up Maggots!; Sworn Protector)
-1 Nork Deddog (Carapace Armour; Ripper Gun; Feel No Pain; Furious Charge; Heroic Sacrifice; Loyal to the End; Stubborn)
-1 Astropath (Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Carapace Armour; Telepathic Relay)
-1 Master of Ordnance (Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Carapace Armour; Artillery Bombardment)
-1 Officer of the Fleet (Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Carapace Armour; Intercept Reserves)
-1 Chimera Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Autocannon; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Veteran Squad (Carapace Armour; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Vox Caster; Shotgun x6; Grenade Launcher x3; Chimera; Grenadiers)
-1 Sergeant Bastonne (Carapace Armour; Hot-shot Laspistol; Krak Grenades; Power Sword; Carapace Armour; It's Up to Us, Lads; Never Give Up, Never Surrender!)
-1 Chimera ((IA1, pg. 128); Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Autocannon; Extra Armor; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Veteran Squad (Flak Armour; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Vox Caster; Shotgun x6; Grenade Launcher x3; Gunnery Sergeant Harker; Chimera)
-1 Gunnery Sergeant Harker ('Payback' (Heavy Bolter); Close Combat Weapon; Flak Armour; Krak Grenades; Catachan Devils; Feel No Pain; Relentless)
-1 Chimera ((IA1, pg. 128); Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Autocannon; Extra Armor; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad (Flak Armour; Close Combat Weapon x2; Lasgun x1; Medi-pack; Vox Caster; Laspistol x1; Heavy Weapons Team; Commissar)
-1 Heavy Weapons Team (Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Lascannon)
-1 Commissar (Flak Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Stubborn)
-1 Platoon Commander (Flak Armour; Laspistol; Power Weapon; Junior Officer)

Infantry Squad (Close Combat Weapon x7; Flak Armour; Lasgun x6; Vox Caster; Sniper Rifle; Heavy Weapons Team; Commissar)
-1 Heavy Weapons Team (Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Mortar x1)
-1 Commissar (Flak Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Stubborn)
-1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Laspistol; Power Weapon)

Infantry Squad (Close Combat Weapon x7; Flak Armour; Lasgun x6; Vox Caster; Sniper Rifle; Heavy Weapons Team; Commissar)
-1 Heavy Weapons Team (Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Mortar x1)
-1 Commissar (Flak Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Stubborn)
-1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Power Weapon)

Infantry Squad (Close Combat Weapon x7; Flak Armour; Lasgun x6; Vox Caster; Sniper Rifle; Heavy Weapons Team; Commissar)
-1 Heavy Weapons Team (Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Mortar x1)
-1 Commissar (Flak Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Stubborn)
-1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Laspistol; Power Weapon)

Infantry Squad (Close Combat Weapon x7; Flak Armour; Lasgun x6; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Weapons Team; Commissar)
-1 Heavy Weapons Team (Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Autocannon)
-1 Commissar (Flak Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Stubborn)
-1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Laspistol; Power Weapon)

-Heavy Weapons Squad (Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2)

-Special Weapons Squad (Close Combat Weapon x6; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Meltagun x3)

-Rough Rider Squad @ 125 pts (Flak Armour; Krak Grenades; Hunting Lance x7; Laspistol x9; Meltagun x2)
-1 Rough Rider Sergeant (Flak Armour; Krak Grenades; Hunting Lance; Laspistol x1)

@ dark6spectre

Reported. Stop trolling. Kthxbye.

Seriously, you're a fairly new member and you're spouting rubbish like this? This thread isn't constructive in any way and is just alienating you from the community with your truly rediculous and blinkered 'ideals'.

L. Wrex

If you mind FoxPhoenix. all i was asking was an opinion of what people think, not people coming in and saying im a complete moron. how about you let me see what people have said and get my opinion out.
Anpu42
razgryz


Anpu42
razgryz
cmac and others have actually let out information worth talking about. you know what, ill just rename the topic to make you happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
fine then deleted.

You don't have to be smart to be polite.

Obvious troll is obvious

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

anpu i just read through your list and on your vet squad it says x6 shotguns. do GW actually supply IG shotguns or do you have to convert SM scout ones for the purpose?


and btw you could have said i was 'trolling' from the start, as i didnt know i was that much. main reason: i only just realised what trolling meant out of guesswork. i thought at first it was either some random post by a person, or a random term which alot of people on dakkadakka use.

Thay are actly some Void Minis with Paired Pistols so I thought Shotguns were the best "Count-As" choice. Though I have tons of Scout Shotgun arms I might start using.

BURN BABY BURN

You have the option to build very large platoons if you want. You also have the option to build smaller platoons. Printing a separate codex that is exactly like the other one except for a different maximum size of a platoon would be stupid.

If your intent was "all i was asking was an opinion of what people think" then you might have wanted to put a question in your post and not entitled the thread "Imperial Guard suck". "What do you think of 5th ed Imperial Guard" invites discussion of what people think about the Imperial Guard. "Imperial Guard suck" is picking a fight.

Trolling on the web is like trolling for fish. Only the fish are negative replies.

GW does supply shotguns. Well, Forgeworld does. Mind you they're divisions of one and the same, so yea I guess you could say GW puts out shotguns.

And people -have- been saying you're sounding like a troll from the start, if you go back and read previous posts. So in Soladrin's defense, he wasn't the first one.

just for lols imagine 10k of pure min-max guard list with only platoons "drools"

metallifan, sorry but i did not know what trolling meant. i asked what it meant and all i got was either some guys critisising my critisising (which is absolutely fine) or more images or captions or whatever to do with trolls.

Need a light?

FWOOSH!!

I think he gets it folks.

another question. what is it with these pictures.... what are they supposed to depict? besides burning....

metallifan wrote:I think he gets it folks.

But...mah poast count!!1!

dark6spectre wrote:another question. what is it with these pictures.... what are they supposed to depict? besides burning....

romulus571 wrote:Protip: Trolls can only be killed with fire or acid.

that

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

metallifan wrote:I think he gets it folks.

But...mah poast count!!1!

yes sir

strange custom.


now we can leave this thread as all that people want to do is burn it.

btw i have no intention in gaining 'posts', as they seem utterly pointless in the ideas of the forum. they could have it but only listing topics started, not replies.

and anyway, if i am on a forum, i will say alot on it too. if any of you play total war games, on the TW forums i seem to find myself replying to nearly everyones post. its just a habit.


if youv'e got something to say which does not offend anyone. say it.

I don't really mind the current implementation. If I were doing it I would have left the conscripts as a separate troops choice and either keep the support squads in the HQ or reduced the number in a platoon, but it still works. I haven't seen anyone spamming heavy weapons squads or complaining that heavy weapons squad spam is overpowered so the option to take a lot of them really isn't a problem in practice even if it doesn't fit the usual vision of how a Guard army is supposed to work.

I noticed you changed the name of the thread.














It doesn't make it any less stupid.

I think IG are fine. there, I think thats what everybody is trying to say. want a GW product that contains an ounce of realism? tough luck.

I just realised this is the first time I've seen someone start a thread on Dakka that criticises GW and get no-one agreeing with him.

On Dakka. A negative thread. Completely rejected. That takes some doing.

QFT Seb. I think that somewhere in England Jervis Johnson is sweating like a Russian whore in church because even his clandestine attempts to stimulate agreement with him are an utter failure...

Anything + Jervis Johnson = Failure

Save for planetstrike. He gets to live for that idea.

And he's nowhere near as bad as:

OP, you still haven't answered my question:

The IG codex lets you take troop choices ranging between 10 and 100+ men, so that the many, many different styles of regiment can be represented.

Why is this a problem for you?


ETA, in response to your new thread title, guardsman have become dramatically more flexible and, as a direct result, are now more competitive than they've ever been.

I have regularly played with guard.

they are no more or less hordy than they have been since 2nd ed, even bearing in mind that RT to 2nd was skirmish gaming.

Looking at the three codexes (in front of me now) since 3rd ed to present they have always offered up the option to play as horde or as a small combined arms force.

The limitations with Guard had always been the lack of choice when taking taking vehicles which 5th ed has addressed by allowing squadrons or tanks and FA choices.

40k fluff wise Guardsmen die in droves. Its what they do. They did it in RT and they do it now only their fluff isn't as faceless. Novelization follows the fluff, to a degree. Guardsmen die in droves, only a handful survive etc.

This is GW's 'reality' if you don't like GW's portrayal just ignore it and get on with creating a codex legal force that you are happy playing with.

I wouldn't agree with that. Platoons can now be much bigger or vet squads allow for much smaller amounts of troops.

Likewise squadrons allow for much larger numbers of tanks.

Aside from this, the many smaller tweaks have made a much bigger range of builds viable.

What are you disagreeing with?

Haven't I pretty much said that IG offers a range of options? from horde to smaller forces to combined arms options?

I would say that the range of options has is considerably broader now. The min to max range of infantry is much wider and a lot more armour and artillery can be taken.

on the topic of more armour and artillery, does anyone know if that mini codex about Armoured companies on GW years ago, is that still legal?

No, it is not allowed at tournaments, if that is what you mean by legal.

It's not even relevant to the current codex. If you want to do that use the armoured battlegroup list from IA1-update (you used to be able to download it but the download section is gone while they're updating the website).

I can email it if you want it but, to be honest, you can make a better armoured battlegroup from the codex.

I think its funny how you don't think the current codex represents the guard correctly, but in the 4th edition codex you could not take a fully armored/mechanized list like you can with the current codex, which you now want to do? A bit of hypocrisy to go with the whine?

You are complaining that a miniature game of toy soldiers set 40,000 years from now, with psychic people, evil destructive gods, Daemons, and 7.5 foot tall screaming bald men that have the strength equivalent to an elephant that are impossible to kill and carry fully automatic 40mm grenade launchers as standard issue weapons, isn't realistic? OF COURSE IT'S NOT REALISTIC. If you want to play a game that's realistic you are in the wrong hobby.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:the wrong hobby.

You're wrong because of three words: Flames of War.

I think he meant the 40k hobby, not miniature games as a whole.

This thread hurts my brain.

Karon wrote:This thread hurts my brain.

Awesome picture is awesome

More hordey? Did you even READ the 4th edition codex? That is all you COULD take in 4th ed. is horde. At 140 points minimum, you could get a platoon command and 2 infantry squads. You could max out at 5 squads per platoon. You HAD to take an infantry platoon if you wanted Armored Fist squads. At BEST, you could only take a semi-mech list. The points are only slightly cheaper for hordes in the new codex, the only difference being that you can combine the squads into "mega-blobs" of infantry that you formerly could not do.

Wake up man and smell the chimeras.

The only change they made with the new codex that I did not like right away was the removal of Gaunt's Ghosts. I loved the books and made a tanth light inf with the previous codex, much harder to do with the new one.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:More hordey? Did you even READ the 4th edition codex? That is all you COULD take in 4th ed. is horde. At 140 points minimum, you could get a platoon command and 2 infantry squads. You could max out at 5 squads per platoon. You HAD to take an infantry platoon if you wanted Armored Fist squads. At BEST, you could only take a semi-mech list. The points are only slightly cheaper for hordes in the new codex, the only difference being that you can combine the squads into "mega-blobs" of infantry that you formerly could not do.

Wake up man and smell the chimeras.

Mechanized doctrine. That forced all of your guard infantry to take chimeras even if they didn't have the option, including heavy weapon teams. Of course that was the old codex chimera that cost a minimum of 80 points.

OP; is there any chance you could give us your dream 4th edition Imperial Guard list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dark6spectre wrote:B company (my force. i doubt i will ever get over 1 company by the way prices are and the time i have)

Company HQ
Senior Officer
Medic
Plasma Gun
Vox
Colour sergeant (ex- bearer, now veteran gaurdsman)
(possibly a priest)

Company HQ Platoon
3 Sentinels
3 Mortar Teams
3 Heavy Bolter teams
1 Sniper squad
3 missile launcher teams


1st Platoon
HQ: junior officer with power fist and laspistol (the old metal officers); medic; sniper; grenade launcher; vox
1st Squad: 1 sergeant + 9 guardsmen: 1 flamer
2nd Squad: || ||
3rd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher, 1 heavy bolter/autocannon




2nd Platoon
Same as 1st Platoon, just CO has a chainsword and bolt pistol




3rd Platoon
1st Squad: 1 sergeant + 9 guardsmen: 1 grenade launcher
2nd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher 1 heavy bolter/ autocannon
3rd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher 1 heavy bolter/autocannon


" support Platoon"
just for organisation purposes
3 Leman Russ Tanks
1 Kasrkin Armoured Fist squad
1 Imperial Guard Exchange Programme (IGEP) Elysian drop squad
1 Basilisk ( not meant to be in the company but could be used for gameplay purposes)

This is the hypothetical dream list I found over in Army Lists. Here it is with the fifth edition IG codex:

Company Command Squad- Medi-pack, Regimental Standard, Plasma Gun, Vox-Caster- 115
Platoon Command Squad- Powerfist, Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-80
Infantry Squad- Flamer, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Flamer-55
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Mortars- 60
Platoon Command Squad- Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-65
Infantry Squad- Flamer, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Flamer-55
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Missile Launcher- 75
Platoon Command Squad- Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-65
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Heavy Bolters- 75
Special Weapon Squad- Snipers (3)- 50
Veterans- Chimera, Melta (3), Grenadiers- 185
Scout Sentinel (3)- 105
Leman Russ Battle Tanks (3)- 450
Basilisk- 125
Total- 2000

Voici! I created your entire list (excluding of course the IGEP, but you could easily add Valks to replicate and a few changes to make it fit into 2000 points).

Not sure if this has been stated yet, but a Platoon in the real world generally has 50 or men in it, plus support.

BrotherStynier wrote:Not sure if this has been stated yet, but a Platoon in the real world generally has 50 or men in it, plus support.

Really?

Man, Platoons here are like 20-30 +Support.

Okay so maybe not 50 but most US Military Platoons are around 42 men strong. plus support.

My platoon was 36 men, in 4 squads.

Army or Marines, both branches have different sizes. Going off the Army they generally have 40 or so men, but it could vary depending on total unit strength and the roles of the unit.

For something the size of the Imperial Guard, some Regiments having 50 man Platoons plus support doesn't strike me as being too far fetched.

Army, 11-Cs.

Case being, however, that the IG IS NOT meant to represent a modern army. It is a purely stylistic approach to a mass army of humanity.

Oh I know, Im just saying, that its not too unfeasible to have a 50 man platoon.

And that's if they -Have- Platoons.

Remember, you've still got Feral guardsmen fighting with axes and bows because they don't trust their Lasweapons

lol too true.

Ha lol metallifan, now I'm going to have to model some guardsman huckin' rocks

I've been in a 90-man platoon before. It was a training formation and acknowledged to be unmanageably large, but it did exist.

The Imperium of Man from a design perspective is meant to be somewhat dysfunctional and wildly inconsistent. Things that would be mind-bogglingly insane from a modern perspective could be entirely in character for the Imperium. If you want to field stupidly huge platoons that in real life or on the tabletop would be excessively wasteful of life you can do that. If you want to run an efficiently run army you can do that too.

doubled wrote:The only change they made with the new codex that I did not like right away was the removal of Gaunt's Ghosts. I loved the books and made a tanth light inf with the previous codex, much harder to do with the new one.

WHAT! no! how could they?

RustyKnight wrote:OP; is there any chance you could give us your dream 4th edition Imperial Guard list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dark6spectre wrote:B company (my force. i doubt i will ever get over 1 company by the way prices are and the time i have)

Company HQ
Senior Officer
Medic
Plasma Gun
Vox
Colour sergeant (ex- bearer, now veteran gaurdsman)
(possibly a priest)

Company HQ Platoon
3 Sentinels
3 Mortar Teams
3 Heavy Bolter teams
1 Sniper squad
3 missile launcher teams


1st Platoon
HQ: junior officer with power fist and laspistol (the old metal officers); medic; sniper; grenade launcher; vox
1st Squad: 1 sergeant + 9 guardsmen: 1 flamer
2nd Squad: || ||
3rd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher, 1 heavy bolter/autocannon




2nd Platoon
Same as 1st Platoon, just CO has a chainsword and bolt pistol




3rd Platoon
1st Squad: 1 sergeant + 9 guardsmen: 1 grenade launcher
2nd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher 1 heavy bolter/ autocannon
3rd Squad: || 1 grenade launcher 1 heavy bolter/autocannon


" support Platoon"
just for organisation purposes
3 Leman Russ Tanks
1 Kasrkin Armoured Fist squad
1 Imperial Guard Exchange Programme (IGEP) Elysian drop squad
1 Basilisk ( not meant to be in the company but could be used for gameplay purposes)

This is the hypothetical dream list I found over in Army Lists. Here it is with the fifth edition IG codex:

Company Command Squad- Medi-pack, Regimental Standard, Plasma Gun, Vox-Caster- 115
Platoon Command Squad- Powerfist, Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-80
Infantry Squad- Flamer, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Flamer-55
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Mortars- 60
Platoon Command Squad- Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-65
Infantry Squad- Flamer, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Flamer-55
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Missile Launcher- 75
Platoon Command Squad- Medi-pack, Grenade Launcher-65
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster-60
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Infantry Squad- Grenade Launcher, Autocannon- 65
Heavy Weapon Squad- Heavy Bolters- 75
Special Weapon Squad- Snipers (3)- 50
Veterans- Chimera, Melta (3), Grenadiers- 185
Scout Sentinel (3)- 105
Leman Russ Battle Tanks (3)- 450
Basilisk- 125
Total- 2000

Voici! I created your entire list (excluding of course the IGEP, but you could easily add Valks to replicate and a few changes to make it fit into 2000 points).

cheers man.

anyway in British army there are like 28 man platoons. i think just over time its either diff armies found better ways to organise their men, or just if more guys got killed there were still many left (e.g in the pacific US marines had like 60 man platoons because most would die or be wounded)

ok i sort of get it everyone has given an opinion- or an insult- to me and i understand now. i will sort of leave it for you guys to continue shouting profanity at what i have said, post more pictures of flaming stuff, or just argue with each other

dark6spectre wrote:anyway in British army there are like 28 man platoons.

Wrong. Platoons in the British Army consist of 40men, and one Lieutenant who leads them.

L. Wrex

since when? it has normally been 28 men. 3 squads of 8 and the command group or whatever it is caled. the C0, his radio operator, a guy with a signal mortar and his 2IC

Have you been in the military, dark6spectre?

dark6spectre wrote:since when? it has normally been 28 men. 3 squads of 8 and the command group or whatever it is caled. the C0, his radio operator, a guy with a signal mortar and his 2IC

Since as long as I can remember, and I'm a potential Lieutenant n the British Army so it'd look pretty bad if I got that wrong .

L. Wrex

XD ok. is it armoured infantry or light?

Why do you ignore my posts huh? censorship much?

sorry didnt see it. no i aint, but i am just interested in the military. so i read books about it and stuff.

dark6spectre wrote:sorry didnt see it. no i aint, but i am just interested in the military. so i read books about it and stuff.

Advice: Leave military knowledge to folks that serve or served.

Books won't learn you much good about nothing.

Too true, metallifan. +1.

I think OP is just looking for something to complain about. First they're too hordey with platoons, and then not hordey enough with vets.

There are a LOT of things GW has done that you could bitch about, but the IG codex is simply well written and composed, no two ways about it. Definetly one of their finer attempts in years.

Read through the thread, just thought I'd put in my two cents.

You know what really sucks about the 5th ed IG codex. There's way too many options to make a killer list!!!

I've been trying settle on a 2K list for the last three months so I can finish painting. Every time I review the codex another great idea appears. What a horrible problem to have...

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:Read through the thread, just thought I'd put in my two cents.

You know what really sucks about the 5th ed IG codex. There's way too many options to make a killer list!!!

I've been trying settle on a 2K list for the last three months so I can finish painting. Every time I review the codex another great idea appears. What a horrible problem to have...

Damn right..it's been how long now since the IG dex has been released? And still there are choices and builds that I haven't tried yet....meaning I'm still enjoying the wonderful codex that is 5th ed IG....

The 4th ed dex WAS fun, but it's gone now. Useless to dwell on the past.

Wow.... this is officially the funniest thread of all time. You have to love a good whine about being able to field a horde if you want to..... I mean I can't believe you might actually be able to build different styles of army from one codex. Ohhhhh the humanity!!!!!!

I swear to God, if every codex from here on out does not limit the choices in the codex to the the number of choices in the DH codex, I'm just gonna go throw a fit.

Seriously, I want IG to be REALISTIC!!! Cmon their guns shoot lasers like the real army right?? And aren't there crazy commissar types in the real military that kill their own men? and what about psykers? Haven't you seen "the men who stare at goats?" And we all know that planes that look like valkaries can hover in mid air.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:And we all know that planes that look like valkaries can Fly.

Fixed.

Actually the Valk could probably fly, maybe not well but it could fly.