Ok, we often grumble that GW don't get round to releasing Codexes and Armybooks within the lifecycle of one edition, so imagine if they decided to cut back on the number of books, which ones would you be prepared to lose?

You can choose 9 Codexes for 40K and 9 Army Books for Fantasy. Allowing for 1 release every two months, alternating between Fantasy and 40K, this would enable them to complete a cycle within 3 years (the usual lifespan of an edition). You add new books if you choose, but remember no more than 9 books per system.

My 40K choices would be...

1. Space Marines - Chapter Tactics would be used to differentiate between each Chapter with a number of SCs for the bigger chapters
2. Imperial Guard
3. Eldar
4. Tyranids
5. Chaos Marines - This would of course see Chaos Marines and Daemons together in one volume again
6. Necrons
7. Tau
8. Sisters of Battle
9. Angels of Death - One book is easily sufficient to cover Blood Angels and Dark Angels. Space Wolves can stay on Fenris and get blind stupid drunk.

No Orks? Nope, my 40K universe would try to avoid obvious comparrisons to Fantasy, so I've chosen the races that are the most sci fi in nature. No Dark Eldar either, I don't think their fluff is really going anywhere. Grey Knights would be an Elite Choice in the Space Marine book.

As for Fantasy...

1. Orcs and Goblins
2. Empire
3. Undead - Bored of Vampires now, I want Nagash back! This book would focus on Necromancers and Liches with none of the super combat characters that are currently robbing Undead players of a tactical challenge
4. Skaven - One of the few non-tolkien rip off races in Fantasy and my favourite, so they're staying.
5. High Elves
6. Wood Elves - Yes, Asrai or Druchii? I've gone for the former, because GW have never really achieved anything worthwhile with Dark Elves
7. Dwarves - Was tempted to say they were eaten by Tyranids, but they are one of the necessary Fantasy archetypes.
8. Chaos Warriors - One giant tome full of Chaos Dwarves, Beastmen, Daemons, Giants, Ogres. Oh and Chaos Warriors.
9. Lizardmen - Another one of GW's genuinely cool concepts. Be a shame to ditch them.

So, no Bretonnians as they are just another human race on horses. No Ogre Kingdoms (silly idea) and sadly no Tomb Kings (though I might allow a side list in the Undead book).

Over to you...

Exclusion of the Orks in 40k is rather criminal.

No Orks? Nope, my 40K universe would try to avoid obvious comparrisons to Fantasy

You have problem with space orcs, but space elves are ok?


I would put SOB an GK in one inquisition book

Undead - Bored of Vampires now, I want Nagash back! This book would focus on Necromancers and Liches with none of the super combat characters that are currently robbing Undead players of a tactical challenge

+1

Seriously? You would drop Orks and Dark Eldar but still give Differently Painted Marines their own book?

I would definetly drop a number of extra marine chapters. I don't see why Dark Angels or Black Templars need an extra book. Hell, just put every Marine in one book. It would have to be VERY customisable though.

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Orks
Tyranids
Eldar
Necrons
Tau
Sisters
Chaos

I'm not quite sure where to put the rest of the Inquisition stuff though. Grey Knight armies always rubbed me the wrong way, but you should be able to field them in a Guard army just as well as with other Marines.


Don't play much Fantasy, though I do play them myself, I never understood how Ogres got their own book.

No orks? I think they're too important for that, fluff wise.

Angels of Death is a good idea though, they should return to it.

I also like the fantasy undead idea.

A little modification of Anung Un Rama's list:

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Orks
Tyranids
Eldar
Necrons
Tau
Inquisition
Chaos

Also I'd made sure that the diversity of units in Tyranids, Tau, and Orks matched that of the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Chaos, and Eldar.

Sig says it all.

Marine - All chapters w/IC for different variation
Spiky Marine - LatD, Marines, Corsairs, Demons
Manufactorum of Man - Guard, SoB, GK, Inquisitors, Ad Mech, etc.
Elf/Spiky Elf - Why do they need two if it's the same race?
Ork - GIVE ME BACK MY CLANS!!!!!
Nid - Variation with Nids?
Tau - With this codex alone you could introduce many outlandish aliens, but alas the minds of GW
Necron - Just because I suppose. I actually like the newer fluff, just make the army playable.

With Fantasy, I agree there are plenty of HUMANS (Marines) too:

Armies of Men - Any of the kingdom armies, dwarven allies.
Undead - How many do you need? Again, if you want themes, introduce them through Hero/Lords.
Mercenaries! - Give me my Mercs BACK! This could be your Ogres, Corsairs, Intro races.
Elves - Really,,, we need three books?
Orks and Goblins - get rid of animosity, give us more FANATICS.
Lizards - Dino-riders galore
Skaven - really like the new models
Chaos - All types.

Notice the lack of DWARVES. Really, this needs explanation? Add them to the Mercs or additions to chaos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fantasy in general lacks the depth of 40k just because the Old World is pre-determined. How many races have been fighting for how many years and no one seems to be able to beat anyone?

The old world is as big as the Moon and no one seems to be able to gain an upper-hand?

For 40k, I would put

1) Space Marines. Drop combat tactics, but allow everyone to choose 1 special rule to give their army. For example, Ultras get Combat tactics, Salamanders get to twin-link burny stuff, Crimson fists are stubborn, Raven Gaurd get hit-and-run, Blood Angels get Furious Charge. Also, allow generic captains to make some specialization of you list. E.g. if they have jump packs, asault marines become troops, if they have bikes bikers become troops. Special Characters would allow you to alter your army, but in a manner more oriented towards "fluff" and less towards making a working army. For examle, Astorath or Lemartes would allow you to upgrade troops units to Death company, Dante would allow Vangaurd Vets to take Artificer armour (Sanguinary Gaurd), Deathwing and Ravenwing guys would allow you to take Termies and Ravenwing stuff as troops, and so on.

2) Gaurd. Cant do without these generic redshirts.

3) Forces of the Imperium. Contain rules for the Inquisition, Ecclessiarchy, Officio Assasanorum. If there is space, Ad Mech. Allow some sort of Allies system.

4) Chaos. Combining both Daemons and Marines. Daemons behavior depends on what sort of characters you have in your army. Princes or Sorcerers allow you to use them like the current summoned Demons rules (With actual Daemons), While Heralds or Greater Daemons allow you to use the Daemonic Assault rules like the Daemon Codex.

5) Orks. Allow rules for different tribes.

6) Eldar. Craftworlds! Also, include rules allowing Dark Eldar in the Book.

7) Tyranids, the last of the easy canidates. Bring Back Biomorphs.

8)+9) Tau and Necrons, because unlike any Space marine Flavours that I forgot, it would be extremely unfair to just drop the armies.

40k:

Space Marines - characters, captians, or chapter masters can take a Chapter rule which adds special rules or units to an army, kind of like Vulkan currently
Imperial Guard
Eldar
Tyranids
Chaos - marines, daemons, and traitor ally rules (enables chaos-tainted units from some other codexes, IG and Eldar for example. Eldar units would lose any exarch abilities in exchange for a mark or something more drastic)
Necrons
Tau
Inquisition
Adeptus Mechanicus - split into Imperial and Dark factions. Chaos, IG, SM, and Inquisition have access as allies

Fantasy:

Orcs and Goblins
Lands of Men - Empire and Bretonnia together. Leaders give access to units and rules like in 40k
Undead
Skaven
Elves
Dark Elves
Dwarves
Chaos - additional rules supplement. Modifies units from other races to represent Chaos embraces and taints all. Truly chaotic warbands would result.
Lizardmen

Fantasy would be harder, as it is a lot less saturated with a single army type (Sace Marines!). Still, I will have a go.

1) Empire
2) Dwarves
3) Orcs+Goblins
4) High Elves
5) Lizardmen
6) Skaven
7) Dark Elves
8) Undead (Condensed Tomb Kings and Vamp Counts)
9) Chaos (Condense all 3)
10) Wood Elves
11) Ogre Kingdoms
12) Brettonia

In short, I just feel that Fantasy has to many factions that make no sense to condense together from Fluff perspective, asd well as having drastically different combat styles. Still, the above would result in a 20% decrease in number of army books.

Only 9? No modification of Nurglitch's list!

Thing is, I have no problem with GW having lots of Codices, and some of them going without updates for a decade at a stretch. I think GW should continue with the de facto Tiers of Codices, with major armies that always get updated (SM, IG, CSM, & Xenos), minor forces that skip an edition before being updated, and named forces that skip *at least* one edition before being updated:

Tier 1 (updated each edition):
- Space Marines
- Imperial Guard
- Chaos
- Eldar
- Necrons
- Orks
- Tau
- Tyranids

Tier 2 (updated alternate editions):
- Inquisition
- Sisters of Battle
- Daemons
- Legions
- Lost & Damned
- Ad Mech
- Squats

Tier 3 (updated alternate editions, at best):
- Black Templars
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Space Wolves
- Dark Eldar

I completely fail to see why we need more frequent army updates as long as the rules are compatible.

Here's what I think 40k should be.

1. Ultramarines
2. Dark Angels
3. Blood Angels
4. Space Wolves
5. White Scars
6. Imperial Fists
7. Black Templars
8. Salamanders
9. Ogre Kingdom

Flashman wrote:Ok, we often grumble that GW don't get round to releasing Codexes and Armybooks within the lifecycle of one edition, so imagine if they decided to cut back on the number of books, which ones would you be prepared to lose?

You can choose 9 Codexes for 40K and 9 Army Books for Fantasy. Allowing for 1 release every two months, alternating between Fantasy and 40K, this would enable them to complete a cycle within 3 years (the usual lifespan of an edition). You add new books if you choose, but remember no more than 9 books per system.

My 40K choices would be...

1. Space Marines - Chapter Tactics would be used to differentiate between each Chapter with a number of SCs for the bigger chapters
2. Imperial Guard
3. Eldar
4. Tyranids
5. Chaos Marines - This would of course see Chaos Marines and Daemons together in one volume again
6. Necrons
7. Tau
8. Sisters of Battle
9. Angels of Death - One book is easily sufficient to cover Blood Angels and Dark Angels. Space Wolves can stay on Fenris and get blind stupid drunk.

No Orks? Nope, my 40K universe would try to avoid obvious comparrisons to Fantasy, so I've chosen the races that are the most sci fi in nature. No Dark Eldar either, I don't think their fluff is really going anywhere. Grey Knights would be an Elite Choice in the Space Marine book.

As for Fantasy...

1. Orcs and Goblins
2. Empire
3. Undead - Bored of Vampires now, I want Nagash back! This book would focus on Necromancers and Liches with none of the super combat characters that are currently robbing Undead players of a tactical challenge
4. Skaven - One of the few non-tolkien rip off races in Fantasy and my favourite, so they're staying.
5. High Elves
6. Wood Elves - Yes, Asrai or Druchii? I've gone for the former, because GW have never really achieved anything worthwhile with Dark Elves
7. Dwarves - Was tempted to say they were eaten by Tyranids, but they are one of the necessary Fantasy archetypes.
8. Chaos Warriors - One giant tome full of Chaos Dwarves, Beastmen, Daemons, Giants, Ogres. Oh and Chaos Warriors.
9. Lizardmen - Another one of GW's genuinely cool concepts. Be a shame to ditch them.

So, no Bretonnians as they are just another human race on horses. No Ogre Kingdoms (silly idea) and sadly no Tomb Kings (though I might allow a side list in the Undead book).

Over to you...

Hmmm...

First of all, regulate some of the fluff to WD, instead of the codices, and give the magazine some fictional reading crunch.

Drop Chaos Daemons or make them elites for CSM.

Drop Inq...or at least combine them into a single book.

As suggested, make GK an elite choice for IG/SM.

Sad to say, merge the SM books into one and differentiate the chapters with a few rules and SC's (kind of like what the OP suggested).

Merge CWE and DE into one book with special rules in playing one or the other.

I think that brings us to eight codices?

SM
Eldar
Tau
Necrons
Tyranids
Orks
CSM
IG

Leaving Orks out is suicide.

Since I only play 40k, here's my list; these would be beefier books though, as they contain more stuff:
1. Space Marines and more codex chapters like Dark and Blood Angels
2. Chaos Marines, Daemons, and cults
3. Codex Imperialis (Guard, Inquisition, elements of the Adeptus Mechanicus, arbites, etc.)
4. Eldar - raiders, exodites, pirates/Dark Eldar
5. Orks
6. Tau and allies - fit in more of the races like Hrud and such
7. Tyranids
8. Divergent Marines, such as the Black Templars and Wolves
9. Necrons, but I could care less about them.

avantgarde wrote:Here's what I think 40k should be.

1. Ultramarines
2. Dark Angels
3. Blood Angels
4. Space Wolves
5. White Scars
6. Imperial Fists
7. Black Templars
8. Salamanders
9. Ogre Kingdom

Haha

Compress the Space Marines into one big Codex or make the expansions just that... expansions. Space Wolves took as much time to develop and release as a whole new army of any other race! Black Templars aren't even all that different... just change names and add characters, and you're set. Same with Dark Angels, really. They're just not different enough to merit time and capital expenditure that could go into diversifying the game. While Space Marines are good sellers, you need variety to attract a wide range of players.

Codex: Inquisition. The different branches wouldn't be averse to working together and both can use Guard forces, so why the hell not?

Codex: Chaos. The Chaos Marines, Daemons, and traitors. Seeing as traitorous humans and cultists show up so much in fiction, why not give them some face-time in an army book? And, as the three would often mix on the battlefield, it would be easy to put all of them in one big book and let players mix-n'-match freely instead of making them fiddle with allies.

avantgarde wrote:Here's what I think 40k should be.

1. Ultramarines
2. Dark Angels
3. Blood Angels
4. Space Wolves
5. White Scars
6. Imperial Fists
7. Black Templars
8. Salamanders
9. Ogre Kingdom

I was just waiting to see this while scrolling down the page. Anyway, my lists.
40k:
1. Space Marines- All in One
2. The Imperium- IG, SoB and GK in one
3. The Eldar- Both Kinds
4. Chaos- Marines, Daemons, LatD
5. Necrons
6. Orks
7. Tau
8. Tyranids
9. Mercenaries- Kroot, Vespids, ect

Fantasy:
1. Men- Empire and Brettonia
2. Elves- High, Wood and Dark
3. Undead- VC and TK
4. Chaos- Warriors and Daemons
5. Beasts- Beastmen and Skaven
6. Ogres
7. Orcs and Goblins
8. Lizardmen
9. Mercenaries- Like Giants and Rogues

Note how my lists include all the armies.

I only play 40k,and much like Brother SRM and Tim my codices would be much larger (more encompising) books...so here goes.

1. Space Marines- All major chapters + means to talior your own.
2. Chaos-Legions,Daemons,LATD,+means to talior your own varient chapters & renegades.
3. Orkz-Klanz,Freebooters + means to customize your own forces.
4.Eldar-all Eldar are coverd.
5. The Imperium-SOB,,Daemon Hunters,GK all things not SM & IG are here.
6.Imperial Guard-covers all varients of IG + Traitor Guard(maybe)
7. Tau-I know absolutely nada about Tau,but this book would cover everything a Tau player wants.
8.Tyranids-Ditto.
9.Necrons.

Just to be "that guy" before someone beats me to it:
1. Ultramarines
2. Dark Angels
3. Blood Angels
4. Space Wolves
5. Black Templars
6. Salamanders
7. Ravenguard
8. Blood Ravens
9. White Scars

Fantasy should have:
1. Ultramarines......

ok Fantasy just gets one army.
and its from another game.

BRING ON THE HATE

ARGH! someone did beat me to it! nuts

whalemusic360 wrote:Just to be "that guy"

Too slow, and too obvious...

If it's all SMs, all the time, try this:
1. Ultramarines
2. Dark Angels
3. Blood Angels
4. Space Wolves
5. Black Templars
6. Grey Knights
7. Salamanders
8. White Scars
9. Raven Guard

I mean, Blood Ravens over Grey Knights? Really? For shame!

1: Codex: Adeptus Astartes... Every SM codex in one book.
2: Codex: Ordo Imperialis... WH, DH,
3: Codex: Imperial Army.... Include special rules for the major IG regiment types for added varity
4: Codex: Ancients......... Eldar and Dark Eldar... plus craftworld eldar
5: Codex: Ork...........To include Feral orks
6: Codex: Nids.......... om nom nom nom
7: Codex: Necrons.....
8: Codex: Tau
9: Codex: The Fallen..... CSM 3.5 redux +Daemons

That joke isn't funny anymore...

Why everyone try to put Empire + Bretonnia or all elves in one book, and still leave Ogres as regular army book? when Ogres were relased, that was the main reason for me to drop Warhammer. This and Vampires.

Why you ask? Because Empire and Bretonnia are men, so that's a no-brainer. And Elves are Elves no matter what path they follow.

If you limit it to 9 then:

Marines (all flavours)
Guard (including Skitarii)
Imperium (Inquisition, Rogue Traders)
Chaos (CSM, Daemons, rules to allow allies from Guard book)
Eldar (craftworld, exodite and dark)
Orks (klans, freebooterz, feral)
Necrons
Tyranids
Tau (full empire book including Kroot, Vespid, Nicassar and Demiurg)

Not sure on fantasy.

Nightlords
Iron warriors
Alpha legion
Word bearers
World eaters
Death Guard
1k Sons
Emperor's children
Black legion

Fantasy

Suns of horus
Luna wolves

I know!

40K:
Everything you can fit in here. I want a fething codex for every Ork clan, Space Marine Chapter (INCLUDING MY ONW) Eldar Craftworld, etc., and I will campaign actively for it!

In all seriousness, I'll just keep it how it is.

I would go with:
40k:
1) Space marines
2) Orks
3) Imperial Guard
4) Eldar (both flavours, but no inter-mingling)
5) Chaos (Marines and daemons in one book)
6) Inquisition (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Xenos Hunters)
7) Tau
8) Necrons
9) Tyranids

Fantasy:
1) Orcs, Goblins and Ogres (plenty of mingling allowed, but options to create one-race armies)
2) Chaos (North-men and daemons all under one roof)
3) Realms of man (essentially Empire and Brettonians in one book)
4) Elves of light (High elves and Wood elves, but no mingling)
5) Dark elves
6) The ancients (Lizardmen, but with a cooler name)
7) Dwarves
8) Undead (Tomb kings, vampire counts all in one book. Some mingling)
9) Beasts (Beasts of chaos and skaven)

This way, you include more or less everything, but cut down on the number of books, making the updates more feasible

S_P

Strictly from a 40k and idealised viewpoint I would keep:

1. Eldar - Weepy Eldar, Spiky Eldar and exodites in one volume
2. Orks - Including clans and oddboyz
3. Tau- Including rules for auxilary humans
4. Chaos- Renegade legions, Traitor Guard, Cultists, Daemons
5. Tyranids - Including rules for stealer cults
6. Imperial Guard - Including some FW variant rules.
7. Forces of the Imperium - SOB, the various Ordos, including rules for Ad Mech.
8. Bertie Botts every flavour marines.

No necrons in my world, I used to like them but they do feel like a one trick pony.

sexiest_hero wrote:Nightlords
Iron warriors
Alpha legion
Word bearers
World eaters
Death Guard
1k Sons
Emperor's children
Black legion

Thank you.

Took someone long enough, tho...

I'll do the next list,
- Alaitoc
- Biel Tan
- Iyanden
- Saim Hann
- Ulthwe
- Harlequins
- Exodites
- Crone Worlds
- Dark Eldar

That leaves two more people to do the Guard & Ork lists.

If I had to pick 9, I guess it would be:
1. Imperial Guard
2. Space Marines (including sub-chapters that are pretty much limited to 1-2 pages with a special rule and a unique unit).
3. "Forces of the Imperium" (stuff that doesn't fit in the previous two books, like my Sisters)
4. Orks
5. Eldar (including DE)
6. Tau
7. Tyranids
8. Whatever I'm forgetting. maybe a 2nd Space marine book due to the popularity factor.
9. Chaos, which would focus first on a Traitor Guard with Chaos Space Marines and Daemons as elites/HQs, but with options for all-CSM armies.

1.Codex Space Marines
2.Codex Imperial Gaurd
3.Codex Orks
4.Codex Chaos (includes LATD)
5.Codex Eldar (Dark, Path, Exodite and Harlequin)
6.Codex Tyranids
7.Codex Necrons
8.Codex Tau
9.Codex Imperium (Sisters, GK, Inquisitors, Assassins, Ad Mech)

Fantasy:
1.Warhammer Armies: Empire
2.Warhammer Armies: Orcs and Goblins
3.Warhammer Armies: Dwarves
4.Warhammer Armies: Chaos
5.Warhammer Armies: Lizardmen
6.Warhammer Armies: Elves
7.Warhammer Armies: Bretonnia
8.Warhammer Armies: Undead
9.Warhammer Armies: Ogres
(Screw you, Elves!)

1. Codex: Imperium of Man (Space Mureens, guard, sisters, =I=, GKs, Ad Mech, etc.)
2. Codex: Forces of Chaos (CSM, demons, LatD)
3. Codex: Xenos (Eldar, Dark Eldar, nids, tau, necron, orks, etc)

done. 3 codicies.

or even better:

1. Codex Imperialis (all armies)

Codex Space Marines inc. Grey Knights, LotD and Deathwatch
Codex Imperial Guard
Codex Imperial Agencies inc Inquisition, SoB, assassins
Codex Orks inc Clans and Freebooterz
Codex Eldar inc Craftworlds, Aspects, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Pirates and Exodites
Codex Tyranids including Genestealer cults
Codex Tau inc Demiurg, Vespid, Kroot et al
Codex Chaos inc Deamons, cultists and renegades
Codex Ad-mech inc both loyalist and traitors

Sorry but no Necrons, never have liked them and never will.

All books would substitute a large portion of "fluff" for alternative lists, i.e. Marine chapter specific rules and troops choices

Each army could have a background book released alongside it

For fantasy I would go with

Empire
Dwarfs
Elves - all types
Undead - all types
Orcs and Goblins
Skaven
Chaos - all types
Lizard men
Brettonia

Ah, yes: my #8 would need to be necrons. Forgot about them.

For 40k, I'd use the old WHFB Army Book method, where at the back of the book are 'alternate lists' which just make changes to which FOC slot thing sit in. These would be expanded to a page per list, with a couple of SCs, the new list, and some fluff.

1. Space Marines, with alternate lists for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, White Scars

2. imperial Guard, with alternate lists for AdMech, Recon army, Siege army, Armoured Company

3. Inquisition, including SoB and GK as well as alternate lists for Pure GK, Pure Ministorum

4. Eldar, with alternate lists for Pirate (Dark) Eldar, Saim-Hann, Exodite, Harlequin.

5. Orks

6. Necrons

7. Tyranids, with alternate list for Genestealer Cult

8. Chaos, combined with alternate lists for Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Pure Daemons

9. Tau

1.) Codex Cadians
2.) Codex Catachans
3.) Codex Vostrayans
4.) Codex Death Corps of Krieg
5.) Codex Mordians
6.) Codex Preatorians
7.) Codex Tallarns
8.) Codex Valhalans
9.) Codex Tanith

Ok, nobody went for dropping Orks from 40K. Think I was just trying to be controversial anyway. To whoever it was who asked, I consider Eldar more of a Vulcan rip off (the whole need to follow a strict lifestyle in order to control emotions) than Space Elves.

Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos. If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos. If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

Yup, looks like we are all in favour of recombining Codex: Blandmarines and Codex: Unnesesary.

I can see GW's problem with Codex: Chaos Marines (namely too much stuff), but it's not impossible to get it all in one book and indeed they succeeded with the previous edition.

I would go with a basic Chaos Marine list, with all Daemon types available for summoning outside of the FOC (maybe limit the no. of daemon units that can be taken by making it dependent on chaos icons etc). EDIT - And I would drop Furies, thereby saving valuable space

Different Chaos Marine Legions would be represented by selecting a Chapter Tactics type rule that define the Legion you want to play e.g. Word Bearers get access to more Daemons.

The four big Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) would each have a two page variant list which would be sufficient to list unit options that can be taken from the generic list, USRs that may apply, Legion specific army entrys (e.g. Khorne Beserkers) and special characters.

All codices should be rewritten to offer multiple force organization charts for specific chapters, clans, craftworlds, etc. They could easily have specific heroes, access and limits to unit types, specific "chapter only" type options, overarching rules for specific chapters, and so on so that they play differently and appropriately. It's not that hard, just an organizational challenge, and would allow for many, many more variants in the types of armies. This would in turn create sales and thus help negate less codices or whatever hell reason they come up with for not doing this.

The codex list:

1 - Space Marines: force orgs for all the chapter variants
2 - Forces of the Imperium: Imperial Guard, Daemonhunters, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Witchhunters, Assassins, etc.
3 - Eldar: all craftworlds, plus Harlequins, Eldar Raiders (just lose the "Dark" part)
4 - Orks: all clans, freebooterz, Kult of Speed, etc.
5 - Tau: option for all kroot army
6 - Chaos: variant Chaos SM chapters, plus daemons, both as combined units and all daemon armies, cultists, etc.
7 - Necrons
8 - Tyranids
9 - Squats, since I have a spare slot

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos.

If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

You set an arbitrary number of 9 Codices / Army Books, and you're surprised that people actually played along with your request by folding Chaos back together, Undead back in one book?

I'm pretty sure that GW isn't reading this with an eye to reversing their business strategy, but even if they were, they won't undo the past decade's work of splitting asunder what was once whole. Chaos will never again be a single book, nor Fantasy Undead.
____

Flashman wrote:I can see GW's problem with Codex: Chaos Marines (namely too much stuff), but it's not impossible to get it all in one book

The four big Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) would each have a two page variant list which would be sufficient to list unit options that can be taken from the generic list, USRs that may apply, Legion specific army entrys (e.g. Khorne Beserkers) and special characters.

Of course, it's not impossible. GW could go back to putting everything into a single Armies book, like the 40k2 Armies lists, the 40k3 Rulebook lists, or the WFB6 Ravening Hordes list. GW chooses not to do this because they don't want to be locked into a particular schedule. Personally, I'd be completely OK with a reset going back to the 40k3 Rulebook lists.

If the rules for Legions are in the CSM Codex, then there's no need for a standalone Legions Codex. If you are a Legions player, would you rather share space in a Codex with all of the non-Legions forces, or would you rather have a Legions-only book (with the ultimate potential for one day getting your very own Codex: Thousand Sons / Emperor's Children / Death Guard / World Eaters book)? I suspect the latter.
____

Skarboy wrote:All codices should be rewritten to offer multiple force organization charts for specific chapters, clans, craftworlds, etc. They could easily have specific heroes, access and limits to unit types, specific "chapter only" type options, overarching rules for specific chapters, and so on so that they play differently and appropriately. It's not that hard, just an organizational challenge, and would allow for many, many more variants in the types of armies.

This would in turn create sales and thus help negate less codices or whatever hell reason they come up with for not doing this.

If you've paid attention to the recent Codices, GW is already doing this by having various units gain Scoring, or move to Troops depending on unit size / HQ choices. This makes for one big list with a lot of options, rather than having to make several small lists and sublists that try to do similar things. In general, players have more options and flexibility than they had before.

Given that GW seems to be doing OK financially selling luxury goods in a down economy, I would imagine that the suits think their current strategy is working. This will only change if GW starts seeing serious, sustained drops in sales (consecutive quarters) or failed re-launches of core systems (major 40k Codex releases, WFB8 launch). From all indications, Orks, Guard, BA have sold well enough to confirm that their current approach is correct.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Flashman wrote:Interested to see than no one (unless I missed them) went for a Codex: Chaos Daemons or even a Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos.

If anybody from GW is reading this thread...

You set an arbitrary number of 9 Codices / Army Books, and you're surprised that people actually played along with your request by folding Chaos back together, Undead back in one book?

I'm pretty sure that GW isn't reading this with an eye to reversing their business strategy, but even if they were, they won't undo the past decade's work of splitting asunder what was once whole. Chaos will never again be a single book, nor Fantasy Undead.

One of the dangers of starting one of these threads is that GW just might drop by, and start getting ideas. One in a million chance, but....

BrookM wrote:Exclusion of the Orks in 40k is rather criminal.

+1

This thread is bound for greatness...

1. Combine C:SM, C:BA, Codex DA into Codex Marines. BA and DA are supposedly codex astartes following chapters, they do not need books. Unfortunately due to 9 codex limit, codex diverging chapters don't get a full book to themselves like I would plan. Instead, include more extensive rules for them than for the codex chapters. Codex chapters get special characters which enable special units and upgrades, Noncodex chapters get the same but more extensively.
2. Combine Daemons and C:CSM. Add LatD.
3. Combine Eldar and Dark Eldar. Add Exodites and Harlequins.
4. Imperial Guard stay the same, but add Adeptus Mechanicus.
5. Combine Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters, add Xeno Hunters and Arbites.
6. Necrons
7. Orks
8. Tau
9. Tyranids

However, one good thing is that no one seems confident in dropping anything. That is, besides Flashman, you dirty fungus hater!

My nine.
1. I would just merge all the Space Marine Codexs into one huge tome.
2. Orks.
3. Tyranids.
4. Imperial Guard.
5. Chaos-Merge Daemons and CSM. Squezze some LaTD stuff in there while they're at it.
6. Eldar.
7. Merge Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters.
8. Tau.
9. Necrons.

DE can go the way of the Squats for all I care.

My nine:
1. Codex: Angels of Death (All the Space Marine into one double thickness codex)
2. Orks.
3. Tyranids.
4. Codex : Forces of The Imperium (Imperial Guard, =I= ordos, mechanicus)
5. Chaos-( allow for daemon armies, Renegade armies/chaos marines and mixed chaos marine/daemon forces)
6. Eldar: (both eldar and dark eldar)
7. Codex: Cults (genestealer cultists, chaos cultists)
8. Tau.
9. Necrons.

This would bring back all the good stuff that was core 40k fluff that they have abandoned (cultists, etc.) and would bring a lot of flavor back to the game imho...

The reason for a limit of nine books was to allow a release every two months and completion of the whole range in three years. It wasn't a cunning plot to lure people into saying they did not like Chaos Daemons.

If people choose to meet the limitation by dropping Chaos Daemons as a separate book, one must suppose that people regard them as the least needed standalone codex.

Nightwatch wrote:However, one good thing is that no one seems confident in dropping anything. That is, besides Flashman, you dirty fungus hater!

Yes, part of the fun was to see what armies people would be willing to see the back of. However, a lot of people as JohnHwang pointed out, went old school and folded armies back together again. I guess it shows that people want to keep as many races (and variations thereof) in the system as possible, which isn't really a bad thing, but it does mean a lot waiting!

And I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy. Nothing all that wrong with a bit of crossover between the two worlds though. If anything, it encourages people to move from one system to the other (though not always successfully).

This seems to be the only sensible option

"1) Space marines
2) Orks
3) Imperial Guard
4) Eldar (both flavours, but no inter-mingling)
5) Chaos (Marines and daemons in one book)
6) Inquisition (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Xenos Hunters)
7) Tau
8) Necrons
9) Tyranids "


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This seems to be the only sensible option
I'm with almost everyone else. Ported fantasy elves are ok but Orks aren't? How about Tyranids being a complete rip off from Starship Troopers/Alien? Also, iirc, Necrons came out right about the time that the Teriminator franchise started to saturate pop culture.

"1) Space marines
2) Orks
3) Imperial Guard
4) Eldar (both flavours, but no inter-mingling)
5) Chaos (Marines and daemons in one book)
6) Inquisition (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Xenos Hunters)
7) Tau
8) Necrons
9) Tyranids "

Flashman wrote:
And I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy. Nothing all that wrong with a bit of crossover between the two worlds though. If anything, it encourages people to move from one system to the other (though not always successfully).

Taking 'Fantasy" out of 40k seems really pointless at this point... A major concept of 40k is the idea that it's "Gothic Fantasy in Space" and there's not a lot to really go against this. It's one reason the Tau were received poorly initially, as they're the most 'pure sci-fi' of the factions, really.

I advocated merging factions because I think it makes sense. lots of companies do fun, readable, and valued combined books and these books are useful in play, too. It's something GW tends to be scared of, possibly since the Codex: Chaos Space Marines edition that was a bit compelx do to the list trying to accommodate 5+ major themes.

As I said, in the case of Chaos I'd want to refocus the 'default' Chaos army as Traitor Guard with CSM elites and/or leaders. A all-CSM army should be possible, but it's going to lack some things (artillery, meat shields, and cultists) in return for being based around veteran Space marines boosted by the Warp.

The reason I advocate this is I think Chaos Space Marines should be scary, not jsut Space Marines with a few extra spikes and skulls. Also a great deal of the stories support this view: I know a single CSM is a 'big deal' in a lot of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, for example.

Ok here we go

40K

1. Codex Space Marines
2. non Codex Space Marines - Only 4 Chapters Space Wolves, BA, DA and BT
3. Orks
4. Guard Imperial and Renegade
5. Legions of Chaos - CSM and Deamons
6. Tyranids
7. Eldar - Nice Elves and Naughty Elves in one book.
8. Necrons
9. Tau

I don't like SoB, Inquisitors or Grey Knights (their rules go into a SM book and they are just allies like LOD)

I would make it clear that their can be clear interaction between the SM books and the Guard book and the Legions of Chaos book and the Guard book.

Fantasy:

1. Empire
2. Bretonians
3. Dwarves
4. Nice Elves - Wood + High
5. Naughty Elves
6. Orcs + Goblins
7. Warriors of Chaos
8. Undead - Vamps + Toomb Kings
9. Skaven

Can't stand Ogre Kingdoms and demamons are rubbish too. Just forgot to put in WOC so put them in instead of Lizardmen. Lizardmen - meh better looking orcs without the character.

Tau is the faction to appeal to the people like me who are not that into the Gothic Fantasy in Space theme.

It was Tau that got me back into 40K after I had abandoned it in the late 80s.

In that respect it was successful, and I have gone on to buy other armies too.

It could be argued that Elves and Humans are in Fantasy as well as 40K and so is Chaos, so why not Orks.

1) Space Marine's (despite me thinking 40K would be a far more interesting game without them) - all the other marine books (ie wolves, blood angels, dark angels ect) included, cutting out most of what is in C:SM that never gets used. It would be a mammoth book and I think it would make it too confusing for all the 12 year old new players though

2) Forces of Chaos- CSM's customisable for all chapters (ie 1k sons, black legion, death guard, world eaters, emperors children) chaos daemons, LatD

3) Imperium of Man- Imperial guard, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Squats

4) Orks - massive customisation for different klans, more variety in general

5) Eldar - All individual Craftworlds, Harlequins + Commorragh

6) Tau Empire - Loads more allies + ethereal's + Fire Warriors ect.

7) Tyranids - Different rules for different Hive fleets, bring back Biomorphs, new units

8) Necrons - Make them interesting, give them at least twice as much variety.

9) New Army - go wild, make something bizarre, Space Skaven or something

Flashman wrote: I'm not a fungus hater really. It's just that Orks stand out in 40K as a race that screams Fantasy.

Well lets be honest: 40K isn't Science Fiction.

40K is "Science-fantasy".

The whole shtick and appeal of 40K is it's blurring of the lines between sci-fi and fantasy. It is ancient combat styles mixed with heroic fantasy motifs (Angels,swords, cav, daemons and so forth, etc.) blended with WWI aesthetics, pollinated w/ Roman myth/legend/aesthetics, and then with some aliens and lasers and robots thrown on top for good measure etc., etc. It is everything that has ever seemed cool about human history/literature/art/myth smashed together and cross-pollinated to create a hybrid reality of Earth's history/tech/etc..

It isn't "futuristic" in the normal sci-fi sense at all.

It is in the future yet somehow archaic at the same time, and that is at the core of it's identity.

Most of the basic components of what makes up the 40K aesthetic are familiar to use in many ways, but it is the way that they are combined in the 40K universe that reinvent the wheel so to speak and make what would seem a disastrous/outlandish concept somehow plausible...

So yes orks make perfect sense in such a setting, just as much as guys riding on top of tanks with swords charging high-tech alien enemies...

1: Merge space marine codexes into one, no need for their current bs multi codexes, you can do the same damn thing in one codex
2: Same with chaos marines, give them demons back too
3: Nercons
4: Eldar, both sides
5: Orks
6: Tau
7: Imperial guard
8: Imperial agents or something, for all the grey knights, sob, and so on
9: Nids
10 and 11: You can split the dark eldar, or some of the imperial agents up. However you can also give demons their own book and include another side, something like angels of chaos, you would basically end up with a forces of the warp book.

Kilkrazy wrote:The reason for a limit of nine books was to allow a release every two months and completion of the whole range in three years.

OK, but 40k is on a 4-year cycle... So wouldn't that suggest an even dozen books?

Or 10 + rulebook + starter?

There seems to be a few 'special' books thrown in every edition, be they campaign books (Eye of Terror), special variant books (Apocalypse), or even the old rules summary books.

I'd still rather see big books that are a bit more price-wise but have 2-4 factions covered than the current standard of one book that is super dedicated and, I think, suffers for it.

If they wanted to do so with "allies" you've got stuff like a book with Space Marines and variants, or the Inquisition, or Imperial Guard plus other Imperials, or Eldar & Dark Eldar.

If theyw anted to theme it around enemies, there's room for 'opposites' as well.

I would drop all of them . Make you guys do wha tever you want , I want cheese marines ><

I would make a point cost system to select army disciplines, 10 points for army special rules or something like that... taking advantages would take away from the total, and taking disadvantages would add to the total. Assaulty army -5... add 20% cost to tanks +2 and so on.

40k
1. Adeptus Astartes - all marines
2. Imperium of Man - Mechanicus, IG, PDF, Arbites,
3. Inquisition, all ordos
4. Orks all
5. Tyranids all (with genestealer cults, and build your own creature rules)
6. Eldar all (craftworld, exodite and dark)
7. Xenos Ancient - Necrons, slann/space lizardmen, jokaero
8. Xenos Young - Tau, Squats, Kroot, whatever
9. Chaos marines/daemons/lost and the damned

Fantasy (same as potato)
1) Orcs, Goblins and Ogres (plenty of mingling allowed, but options to create one-race armies)
2) Chaos (North-men and daemons all under one roof)
3) Realms of man (essentially Empire and Brettonians in one book)
4) Elves of light (High elves and Wood elves, but no mingling)
5) Dark elves
6) The ancients (Lizardmen, but with a cooler name)
7) Dwarves
8) Undead (Tomb kings, vampire counts all in one book. Some mingling)
9) Beasts (Beasts of chaos and skaven)

Well that one was done to death already. Shame on me for not perusing thread

OK

1. Black Templar
2. Rest of SM (what can I say, I play BT)<~~~ only combining because I am forced if I want 9 codices
3. Tyranids
4. Imperial Guard
5. Orks
6. Eldar
7. Chaos
8. Necrons
9. SoB


Also, for all of you wanting to combine ALL marine codices into one, with ICs for each and special rules (upgrade units to Death company by including Mephiston? really?).

How is one monster 500 page codex that takes 3 years to write any better than 5 100 page codices that take like a 3 years to get all of them out. Face it, there is too much flavor in the different space marine chapters to include fluff, differentiability, and balance in one codex. It is a pipe dream, and kind of a silly aspiration at that. It would force the majority of GW's customers to use one clunky, cumbersome, unbalanced, bland book. It's just a BAD idea.

Personally I always thought that Tyranids fit nicely into the Fantasy world.

About 13 years ago I had an ace game in a GW store. My 'stealers knocked the living gak out of some Brettonian Knights. And Carnifex v Griffon is a joy for all involved.

You know what, I reckon we could go even lower than nine books- just condense everything into a few massive books, allowing allies to be taken outside of Apocalypse.
Let's see-
1. Codex: Imperium-Space Marines, non-codex Chapters, Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Mechanicus, Grey Knights, SQUATS all in one tome!
2. Codex:Eldar-All Craftworlds, Harleys, DE, but no mixing with the last bit.)
3. Codex: Tau Empire- Tau, Kroot, Niccasar, Human Auxillaries, lots of other species.
4. Codex: Orks- As was said before, custimisation for all the clans, more vehichles, more special characters.
5. Codex: Chaos- CSM, LaTD, Daemons, Renegades, all together
6. Codex: Tyranids- More gaunt varieties, Dominatrixes and Norm Queens.
7. Codex: Necrons- All the C'Tan, more tanks, flyers, infantry besides warriors, monstrous creatures, etc.

Something for next edition eh?

Very nice condensing there Boss. I'm hoping your idea was to include Apocalypse units in them as well, because a Norm Queen might be a little big for regular games.

I think people would be pretty miffed to lose content. My approach would be to make the nine codex literal tomes of wargaming goodness. It seems to me that the content to development time ratio we have now leaves much to be desired.

1. Space Marines, all first founding and significant Chapters (Incl. GK)
2. Tau, Septs/Farsight Enclaves
3. Eldar/Dark Eldar
4. Necrons
5. Forces of Chaos, containing Chaos Space Marines, Deamons, and LOTD
6.Tyranids
7. Orks, with rules for different major klans.
8. Forces of the Imperium (Mostly IG, with special Ecclisiarchy Inquistion and Abhuman Units)
9. Admech
9

Honestly?

Black Templars.

And I say that as a person with the beginnings of a Black Templar army and as someone who really likes the concept of 'Crusading Marines'.

Black Templars were a cynical attempt to cash in on a popular (READ: broken) army, that being the Codex: Eye of Terror BT's, that backfired horribly - the Codex wasn't broken, they spent a lot of money making Rhino and Land Raider doors in plastic that didn't sell well, and the writer of that Codex got the boot and was relegated to writing novels rather than novels and Codices. You'll also notice that they've avoided doing full doors for Land Raiders/Rhinos since, preferring to instead make super-sized icons that you can stick on doors. Makes more sense really.

They're also the first full Codex for a non-First Founding Chapter, and were something that wasn't different enough to be a full army. The Woofs and Space Vampires already cover the angry HTH side of the Marine world, with Dark Angels and Ultras being the shooty side, so BT's really were a fifth wheel (as much as I liked them).

I'd drop them.


And Daemons - the reigning king of the "Codex: Unnecessary" title. That was an even more cynical money making attempt, with the bean-counters basically forcing Gav Thorpe & Co. to split Daemons out from Chaos. We trash the Generic Daemons in the 'Chaos' Codex (and rightly so), but as Gav said, they were the compromise. Without them there'd be no Daemons in the 'Chaos' Codex. Imagine that...



And I'd replace these Codices with the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Lost & the Mother Fething Damned!!!!!!

For 40k:

1. Blood Angels. Who needs sparkly Twilight marines? Or even worse, emo vampire marines?
2. Dark Angels. Oh no, half their brothers turned against them during the war. They are the HH in microcosm.
3. Space Wolves. Please. Drunken space vikings? Squat them.
4. Actually, make ALL marines into Ultramarines. Even if they are painted red (or green, or black or grey).
Leave the rest.

Fantasy:
Squat the lot.

Exterminatus the planet.

(I don't play fantasy, and don't even read the stuff.).

chromedog wrote:1. Blood Angels. Who needs sparkly Twilight marines? Or even worse, emo vampire marines?

Neither of which describe Blood Angels, who are far heavier on the 'Angel' theme than they are on the 'Blood' part.

I mean really, Gold armour, halos and fething wings. There's no sparkly twilight nonsense there.

Try this idea:

Codex: Space Marines (Ultras and their successors)
Codex: Astartes vol I (Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Iron Hands, Whitescars and their successors)
Codex: Astartes vol II (Blood Angels, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists and their successors inc BT)
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Sisters of Battle (including all the Ecclesiarchy stuff - frateris militia, priests, penitent engines, etc)
Codex: Imperium (Inquisitors, assassins, deathwatch, GKs, rogue traders, magos explorators, etc - the 'Big Book of Allies')

Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Daemons
Codex: Lost and the Damned (traitor guard + mutants and psykers)

Allow units from all 3 Chaos dexes to be used in the same army based on the general: The compulsary HQ (army general) and 2 troops must come from the same dex.
Second HQ can come from anywhere but may not have a higher ld than the general. Rest of troops can come from anywhere.
The first elite/FA/HS slot must be taken from the same dex as the general but subsequent ones can come from anywhere.
If the general has a mark of Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch then everything else in the army must have either the same mark, mark of chaos undivided or no mark.
If the general has mark of choas undivided (for a lot of points) then you can take any combination of marks in the army.


Hey, there's no xenos at all but everybody else is happy

chromedog wrote:For 40k:

1. Blood Angels. Who needs sparkly Twilight marines? Or even worse, emo vampire marines?
2. Dark Angels. Oh no, half their brothers turned against them during the war. They are the HH in microcosm.
3. Space Wolves. Please. Drunken space vikings? Squat them.
4. Actually, make ALL marines into Ultramarines. Even if they are painted red (or green, or black or grey).
Leave the rest.

Fantasy:
Squat the lot.

Exterminatus the planet.

(I don't play fantasy, and don't even read the stuff.).

If you don't play it or like it, it needs to go?

Er, no?

I'm interested to see that people are putting LotD and cults into a number of different books. Missed opportunity there

I'll get back to that in a bit

I think my codex breakdown would follow most people's with a slight deviation with regards to Cults and Inquisitors

1. Codex : Space Marines
2. Codex : Forces of Man (including Guard, AdMec, Planetary defence (Arbites/PDF) and Traitor guard variants)
3. Codex : Ork clans
4. Codex : Chaos (Marines & demons)
5. Codex : Tau (with lots of extra alien allies; including pure Kroot forces)
6. Codex : Necrons
7. Codex : Eldar (all variations thereof)
8. Codex : Sisters

9. Codex : Cults. (What the hell is this?)

Rather than ramming Chaos/Stealer/LatD cults, rogue psykers, pirate gangs, Inquisitors, Grey Knights, Arbites, Rogue Traders, assassins, Deathwatch (etc. etc. etc.) into one (or more) of the other books, why not do something different with them all? Most of the units mentioned operate in small units or avoid an open battlefield unless forced to by circumstance. As such... make this a skirmish supplement that allows you to pit the Inquisition and their allies against the Cults they were designed to fight. Also allow the creation of skirmish forces from any other codex, with skill progression (with 40K pricing for skills/stats/equipment) so these experts can be ported across into a full battlefield. This would also allow for a character creation system that allows new characters to be made, much like the Apoc vechicle creation rules.

If you want to use the cults or Inquisition in a full 40k/Apocalypse sized battle they can be allied with some of the above books. Chaos cults/LotD can go with Codex : Chaos or the Renegade list in Codex : Forces of Man. Inquisition forces can go with any of the Imperium based lists... or even using an Inquisitor and retinue in a Chaos/Renegade list as a rogue.

Is there an option to just drop Fantasy and have 18 40k codexes? No? Well, I won't worry about Fantasy, because I don't play it.

1. Space Marines
2. Imperial Guard
3. Chaos Marines
4. Lost and the Damned
5. Orks
6. Tau
7. Necrons
8. Tyranids
9. Eldar

I think that gives a pretty good variety to the armies. I would look to design the armies to have some additional variety and allow some simple 'count as' swaps. For example, using LatD to 'count as' Genestealer Cults. Cultists are cultists. Psykers are psykers. The different is the Big Mutties could be some form of hybrid and the 'fast daemonic cavalry' count be genestealers. Also, Special Characters would 'open up' some alternate builds. I'd also look to include some themed and fluff armies in the books, even if they weren't that competitive a build. For example, allowing someone to field an all Kroot army out of the Tau book. Hey, if it's got negligible anti-tank and is going to struggle in some games, I'm okay with that. But, if someone really, really want to field their Kroot, they can outside of APOC.

If you expanded to 12 (which, Jervis has said before about 12 sounds right), I'd add:
10. Dark Eldar
11. Inquisition
12. Chaos Cult Armies


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Honestly?

Black Templars.

And I say that as a person with the beginnings of a Black Templar army and as someone who really likes the concept of 'Crusading Marines'.

As a Space Wolf player, I'd be okay with them becoming "grey, viking werewolf marines that are the same as all the others" if it meant GW did more for other armies. The differences between Black Templars or Space Wolves vs. Ultramarines (or even Blood Angels or Dark Angels) is a lot less than the difference between Marines and any other army.

But, Marines are the iconic image of 40k and carry the company. So, they're not going away. At least GW has started to make the spin-offs different enough to warrant a separate book (even if it's as ridiculous as wolves on wolves).

40k
1 - Codex Astartes: All of them, one book.
2 - Codex Ork: Including all clans and feral orks.
3 - Codex Eldar:
4 - Codex Imperial Guard: Including rules for various Guard regiments.
5 - Codex Chaos: Including all Legions, daemons and Lost and Damned armies. Return Chaos to a unified and utterly diverse army.
6 - Codex Tyranid: Including Hive Fleet variances and Genestealer Cults.
7 - Codex Tau: Including Kroot only armies.
8 - Codex Necrons: Necron armies of the C'tan.
9 - Codex Lords of the Imperium: Inquisition armies, SoBs, GKs and Rogue Trader expeditionary armies (alien mercs, mixed units).

Fantasy should not be condensed down, it has good variation in its armies (other than Chaos should be merged again, and 'daemon army' should become a sentence punishable by death in the design studio).

Alpharius wrote:

If you don't play it or like it, it needs to go?

Er, no?

You missed my point there, alphy.

Codexes/Army books that I would drop.
Not you.

I.
Me.
My opinion.

GW's board of directors annual financial statement as well.

Still, I'm not a mod, so my opinion must be wrong, eh?

40k:
Blue Sphess Mehreens
Red Sphess Mehreens
Green Sphess Mehreens
Black SPhess Mehreens
Light Blue SPhess Mehreens
ANGRY MARINES

Sorry...I'm simply sick of GW's favouring of Sphess Mehreens, so I'll be serious on the fantasy part.

-------------

1: Tomb Kings - Love the concept and fluff, probably my second army, and they are pretty old!

2: Empire - Kind of, sort of old, really cool army and versatile, would like to see it get a new book

3: Orcs & Goblins - Again, old-ish, have real problems regarding around animosity, I'd actually put them ahead of Empire, but I have a personal favorite towards the main antagonist towards my personal army - Beastmen.

4: Daemons of Chaos - Can't stand how terribly this book was written, needs a complete re-make. (This is in the thinking 8th edition isn't going to nerf them in some way, though I still stand by my decision)

5: Warriors of Chaos - Need some help, their either all-melee or all-magic. Also, Chaos Dwarfs SHOULD be implemented into the W.o.C book if they aren't planning on doing Chaos Dwarves on their own. Old-ish as well.

6: Vampire Counts - I don't like Invocation of Nehek in its current incarnation, it should be not past starting size, but may add one more unit for each model slayed by that unit, the number of model's raised directly proportional to unit strength.

7: Dark Elves - A personal favorite from the Drizzt Do'urden books (the best series of fantasy books ever written), and will be one of my armies in the future (far most likely). The question is : Do we tone these armies down (talking Vampire Counts and Dark Elves) or do we raise the other books up to this power level they are at?

8: High Elves - Pretty cool, like the fluff and all the versatility surrounding them.

9: Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves - Why not?

Hmm... I never did a Fantasy list:

1. High Elves
2. Dark Elves
3. Wood Elves
4. Beastmen
5. Daemons
6. Ogres
7. Skaven
8. Lizardmen
9. Empire

Hmmm... Fantasy
1. Warriors of Chaos
2. Skaven
3. Orcs and Goblins
4. Dinosaurs (that is, Lizardmen)
5. Dark Elves
6. Ogres
7. Empire
8. High Elves
9. Dwarfs (or is it Dwarves?)

I dont think any army is really worthy of being dropped.. but if I had to I'd drop Sisters as I have no love for them.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:Hmmm... Fantasy
1. Warriors of Chaos
2. Skaven
3. Orcs and Goblins
4. Dinosaurs (that is, Lizardmen)
5. Dark Elves
6. Ogres
7. Empire
8. High Elves
9. Dwarfs (or is it Dwarves?)

Yes, you're quite right. Correct grammar would turn Dwarfs into Dwarves, but that is the power of GW.

On another note, I'm glad to see everyone keeping Tyranids and Lizardmen.

Tim the Biovore wrote:

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:
9. Dwarfs (or is it Dwarves?)

Yes, you're quite right. Correct grammar would turn Dwarfs into Dwarves, but that is the power of GW.

I think it was Tolkien who decided that the plural of Dwarf would be Dwarfs as opposed to Dwarves. He was quite fussy about it.

Shaman wrote:I dont think any army is really worthy of being dropped.. but if I had to I'd drop Sisters as I have no love for them.

It's not dropping an army it's whether they ought to have their own separate codex when entire swathes of the game are ignored from one edition to the next.

Necrons and DE are still on 3e codexes. The Tau codex is five years old this month. The Eldar book is 4e. Meanwhile, GW produce Space Marines, more Space Marines, and some more Space Marines.

While I am re-organising the armies into nine books, I will take the opportunity to reduce the amount of fluff to six pages, make the painting guide the same, and make the book smaller and cheaper. The leftover fluff will be re-printed with additions as supplements.

The rules will be laid out for quick and easy reference, to save that hassle of looking up three or four pages to find out a single unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:

Tim the Biovore wrote:

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:
9. Dwarfs (or is it Dwarves?)

Yes, you're quite right. Correct grammar would turn Dwarfs into Dwarves, but that is the power of GW.

I think it was Tolkien who decided that the plural of Dwarf would be Dwarfs as opposed to Dwarves. He was quite fussy about it.

It's the other way around.

Traditional grammar is an unreliable guide.

Leaf => leaves.
Roof => roofs.

Nonetheless it always was Dwarf => dwarfs for the traditional fairytale creatures and persons of restricted growth.

Tolkien wanted a new image for his creatures, who are taller and stronger than traditional dwarfs or real life 'little people'. So he made a point of changing the plural to dwarves.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Hmm... I never did a Fantasy list:

1. High Elves
2. Dark Elves
3. Wood Elves
4. Beastmen
5. Daemons
6. Ogres
7. Skaven
8. Lizardmen
9. Empire

Why Beastmen #4? They got a new armybook 2 months ago.

@Karon: The order is simply the order in which I thought of them.

I really don't think Beastmen are neccesary. You could sneak a few units into the Warriors of Chaos army book and get away with.

Not sure why OP would drop space orcs and dark elves but keep space elves and space tomb kings.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:I really don't think Beastmen are neccesary. You could sneak a few units into the Warriors of Chaos army book and get away with.

No.

They're two completely different armies. A few units? Beastmen are terribly diverse, and I hope you like lugging around a 200 page armybook...

Mmmm, Tzeentch Flying Circus w/ Cygor and a jabberslythe..yum.

Karon wrote:

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:I really don't think Beastmen are neccesary. You could sneak a few units into the Warriors of Chaos army book and get away with.

No.

They're two completely different armies. A few units? Beastmen are terribly diverse, and I hope you like lugging around a 200 page armybook...

Mmmm, Tzeentch Flying Circus w/ Cygor and a jabberslythe..yum.

But that's the whole point of chaos. It is diverse and its servants take many forms.

No, he has a point. Same goes with the SM Codices, they are diverse enough to have their own Codex. And even then, Beastmen are still more diverse than them.

But thats my point, 'eadbreaka, they're so diverse that you can't combine two races.

Beastmen operate completely seperate from WARRIORS OF CHAOS. They have their own society and history, however crude it may be, its still very different.

Don't dare compare my beastmen to those sweet-16 SM's....Lets do xenos, red marines, xenos, blue marines, xenos, OH WAIT, fething GOLD-YELLOW-SILVER-PURPLE MARINES, and then green marines.

What? I was saying that if all those SMs get a Codex, then Beastmen are pretty much guaranteed an Army Book.

OKAY GUYS I GOT THIS

for 40K
1) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
2) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
3) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
4) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
5) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
6) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
7) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
8) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
9) CODEX ULTRAMARINES

and for Fantasy:
1) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
2) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
3) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
4) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
5) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
6) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
7) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
8) CODEX ULTRAMARINES
9) CODEX ULTRAMARINES

The Old joke is old.

Tim the Biovore wrote:What? I was saying that if all those SMs get a Codex, then Beastmen are pretty much guaranteed an Army Book.

I was joking, mate.

The reason I left 40k and sold 1500 points of guard is because of the dumbass SM updates. Beastmen/Warriors of Chaos is completely different than Green/Blue/Red/Black Marines is what I was saying. Beastmen look different, act differently, generally operate differently, behave differently, have complete different units and culture. The similarity is they both worship the chaos powers.

With Mehreens, its this: We like to fight moar than shoot, or, we got lots of terminators & bikes, did I mention landspeeders?, oh, we're fast mehreens, we like to be fast, codex please.

I just feel GW is a whole different person when it comes to fantasy, I feel they support each army equally (like I feel beastmen would be Deldar if they ran fantasy the way they do 40k) and not one is ever left out really. Thats because they don't have a posterboy army. Hell, they put goblins in starter sets. Empire are commonly seen as the posterboy army for fantasy, but thats not true by any means, it just doesn't happen.

Enough ranting on my part, sorry for the misconception, Tim.

Phew, don't worry, not the first time I've been fooled.

This means you, Corvus.

Lol, I love when you do that Killlkrazy, partly because I have a feti - nevermind.

Honestly, I don't think brettonia was really worthy of a book, they're rather lackluster to play I've been told by mates who play them. Pretty much the same tactic every game (charge, repeat, charge, repeat) or (get charged, die, get charged, die)

Sorry guys :(