Hey people!

I post this thread to,hopefully,learn some cheesy moves

I don't usually use them in my gaming store,but Ithink it would be nice if I learn some to fight off little kids or bullies who would WAAC.There are people like that who just stay at the back of the store,playing with newbies and changing the rules just to beat them,I can't stand that!I've seen new players getting beat(although they have pretty nice lists) by some rule-makers.Compared to some of those bad guys,I am a veteran(4 to 5 years experience),so I think I should stop them by using some cheesy moves.But I will keep it legal.

Once they've learned thier lessons,I would play friendly

One thing I know is the zig zag cover

XYXYXYXYXYXYXYXY
YXYXYXYXYXYXYXYX

Y is one unit
X is one unit

Any others?

What armies do you play?

Also,I play Eldar,and I will be using an mech eldar list,post me some good lists too if you don't mind
Thanks a lot

A better way to counter rules lawyers and cheaters is to play them the right way and win.

Thats what Im trying to do,but cheesy moves does it better and ensure the win

Everybody likes a little cheese now and then, and anybody who won't admit that is just a liar.

Always drive vehicles near ruins...even if it gets surrounded...you can disembark 2" above your door.

True,be honest

And that is one new thing I've learnt today

Hide from beasts and calvary in ruins...they can't climb.

looks down at Thunderwolves*

Hi!...Psycannon to the face!

Why cant they?Is that in the rules?

Beasts and monstrous creatures can't climb stairs.

The rules defines what can travel up and down the levels of ruins...artillary, tanks, beasts and calvary are not listed there.


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MCs can I believe


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As well as Walkers

Cool!I will have fun on some buildings then!
Thanks a lot
And what else?

ductvader wrote:The rules defines what can travel up and down the levels of ruins...artillary, tanks, beasts and calvary are not listed there.


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MCs can I believe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As well as Walkers

Yeah, you're right; I must have been thinking of an older edition.

This thread should be renamed 'How to become an A**hole in 10 easy steps..."

Take a Blood Angels List?

How about putting scouts with a locator beacon in a LSS, then use that as an 18" moving teleport beacon OF DOOM*





*Only applies to deep-strike heavy armies

For BAs you can get 5 LRs in a 1750 list with 200 points to spend on HQs(5 min sized assault squads)

For Grey Knights you can run 2 LRs, 2 min sized PAGK squads, 3 units of 10 GK terminators(one is a GKHs retinue). LRs are for PAGKs to sit in on objectives and snipe enemy vehicles.

Orks. 2 big meks, 2 Deffdreds, 9 killa kans, 120 gretchin and 12 runtherds.(need i say more?)

Combine a PBS with the BA psychic power Fear of the darkness

use Vindicare assassins to snipe Nobs out of Boy mobs to totally nerf them.

Run 9 typhoon LS in a space marine list. 18 fast, BS4 missiles and 9 heavy bolters? yes please

BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear combine with scouting Baal Predators with inferno cannons for extra

Rule that the FLGS games use INAT and that should clear up a going chunk of the cheese. Things such as Checkboarding are covered.

Grey Templar wrote:Combine a PBS with the BA psychic power Fear of the darkness

Or a PBS combined with a Callidus Assassin to instakill basically whole squads (besides Daemons and SS termies)

technically if you reduce their LD to Str4 or less they suffer ID.

Putting the doom of Malantai in your army.

Ork nob units, each model having different gear. That always steams me.

One thing i did this weekend was spread my ork mob to claim two objectives. I only did this because the guy i was playing was being anal and said my kanz cant single out his nob because he was in a mob full of boyz. I said you would be correct if i werent in BtB contact with the nob. We argued for a minute or two and finally i gave in and just pulled an arse move described above.

You can't ever single out upgrade characters in melee, base to base or not. Only ICs can be singled out. Your friend was right.
Of course, spreading around between multiple objectives is fun and legal, and I just learned you don't even have to maintain coherency, so pull guys from the middle after going to ground and pinning yourself. Yay!

And CT Gamer, it isn't being a donkey cave, it is just knowing your way around the rules better than your opponent. In a friendly game it can raise an eyebrow, but in a tournament that is exactly what you are competing over.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone pull the zigzag formation, and no tournament organizer would ever rule in your favor.

Zig Zag cover is rather useless. Sure you would in theory gain a +4 coversave but at the same time you would loose nearly all mobility since you cant move trough units.

If cheese is what your looking for..

I once deployed a vehicle on a building, it was small enough to fit and acted like a turret.

It may have been a cheesy or illegal move (I looked in the BRB and didnt find anything), but it didnt effect that game too much.

Deff Rider Warboss wrote:
I once deployed a vehicle on a building, it was small enough to fit and acted like a turret.

It may have been a cheesy or illegal move (I looked in the BRB and didnt find anything), but it didnt effect that game too much.

My opponent once deployed two Thunderfire Cannons up on the top floors of ruins. I responded by deploying my Predator on a ruin. He called the store manager over and made me deploy it on the ground .

These threads are strange!

tedurur wrote:Zig Zag cover is rather useless. Sure you would in theory gain a +4 coversave but at the same time you would loose nearly all mobility since you cant move trough units.

They would also grant a 4+ cover save to any units they shot at. You must also deploy like this and may not move because you move one unit at a time and may not move through other models. A lot of restrictions just to get a 4+ cover save.

Pathfinding wrote:

tedurur wrote:Zig Zag cover is rather useless. Sure you would in theory gain a +4 coversave but at the same time you would loose nearly all mobility since you cant move trough units.

They would also grant a 4+ cover save to any units they shot at. You must also deploy like this and may not move because you move one unit at a time and may not move through other models. A lot of restrictions just to get a 4+ cover save.

You can do it if you leave the maximum spaced gaps so models can flow around each other as they move. Also, with a formation like this they're likely expecting you to be in cover most of the time so them giving you cover doesn't effect them too much.

A cheap tank tactic (I'm not sure it's going to work with eldar) is the choo-choo train. place several tanks in a line so the front is entirely obscured by the one next in line. Like so:


X....................
X....................
X............. ABC
X....................
X....................

Where A,B&C are you units and the X's are the enemy. Because the front of B&C are entirely blocked the enemy has to shoot at the sides, even from the front arc, granting you a 3+ save. This tactic works best if vehicle A is tougher than B&C or popped smoke.

Vindicator#9 wrote:One thing i did this weekend was spread my ork mob to claim two objectives. I only did this because the guy i was playing was being anal and said my kanz cant single out his nob because he was in a mob full of boyz. I said you would be correct if i werent in BtB contact with the nob. We argued for a minute or two and finally i gave in and just pulled an arse move described above.

The guy was anal because he followed a very clear and well known rule? How about learning the rules and playing by them yourself? And taking two objectives with one unit is not an arse move, it is perfectly legal and a bonus you get from fielding larger units

My opponent once deployed two Thunderfire Cannons up on the top floors of ruins. I responded by deploying my Predator on a ruin. He called the store manager over and made me deploy it on the ground

Artillery = basically infantry, moves in pretty much the same way as infantry etc. Can climb buildings
Tank on second floor = extremely silly

These threads are strange!

QFT

Driving tanks on top of other wrecked tanks can be lots of fun and block a load of LOS from time to time.

This is less cheesy but not often realized. If your vehicle explodes...you're supposed to put a crater down. This can give you a 4+ cover, and stop other units from charging you.


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These threads are strange!

True...but fun nonetheless.

Norade wrote:

Pathfinding wrote:

tedurur wrote:Zig Zag cover is rather useless. Sure you would in theory gain a +4 coversave but at the same time you would loose nearly all mobility since you cant move trough units.

They would also grant a 4+ cover save to any units they shot at. You must also deploy like this and may not move because you move one unit at a time and may not move through other models. A lot of restrictions just to get a 4+ cover save.

You can do it if you leave the maximum spaced gaps so models can flow around each other as they move. Also, with a formation like this they're likely expecting you to be in cover most of the time so them giving you cover doesn't effect them too much.

It's all fun and games until template weapons come down. In order to maintain squad coherency zig zag cover clusters 2 squads on top of each other making them very vulnerable to template weapons. For extra fun use a flamer.

Yeah i see that now. The only reason i even argued it because neither of us had our rulebooks and playing from memory. I saw mine as an arse move because i had my guys spread over 18". The problem i did see with it though was if he attacked one side it significantly limited what i could assault back with.

Grey Templar wrote:For BAs you can get 5 LRs in a 1750 list with 200 points to spend on HQs(5 min sized assault squads)

For Grey Knights you can run 2 LRs, 2 min sized PAGK squads, 3 units of 10 GK terminators(one is a GKHs retinue). LRs are for PAGKs to sit in on objectives and snipe enemy vehicles.

Orks. 2 big meks, 2 Deffdreds, 9 killa kans, 120 gretchin and 12 runtherds.(need i say more?)

Combine a PBS with the BA psychic power Fear of the darkness

use Vindicare assassins to snipe Nobs out of Boy mobs to totally nerf them.

Run 9 typhoon LS in a space marine list. 18 fast, BS4 missiles and 9 heavy bolters? yes please

BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear combine with scouting Baal Predators with inferno cannons for extra

BA can take 5 LR at 1750 and lose them all to melta gun fire. If you want to be extra silly deep strike all 5 of them and see how many can be lost to mishaps.

Grey knights: It's all fun and games until the land raiders eat a melta shot.

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

There are lots of good uses for PBS, my favorite is to combine it with a moral test followed by assaulting the unit with guardsmen. Roll a 2 on the morale check or the unit dies.

Sanguinary Priests are a much more tempting squad for Vindicare assassins. Some players bitch that they have to take a mandatory leadership 10 psychic hood inquisitor lord with mystics to get access to a Vindicare, I say they are bitching that they have to take a mandatory chocolate shake to get access to their cheeseburger.

9 Typhoons are nasty, until you go 2nd against an IG player and the squadroned AV10 skimmers eat massed multi laser and autocannon fire.

The 3 Vindicator 3 Predator + Mech blood angels list is pretty damn nasty. The 6 tanks don't eat up too many points, and the massed troops in Rhinos &/or Razorbacks creates a hell of a target saturation to deal with. It's not unbeatable, but it's a nice solid list.

Grey Templar wrote:
BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear:

i thought ordance weps couldnt shoot after being moved

Using 3 squads of 3 FA spores in bug lists during dawn of war to screw your opponents deployment even more.

epil wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear:

i thought ordance weps couldnt shoot after being moved

They can't shoot any other guns if they move. Seeing as how the only other gun a vindicator can have is a storm bolter it's not much of a sacrifice to shoot the big gun.

I once used Deep Striking Chaos Terminators with combi-plasmas nearby to pretty neatly solve a pair of carnifex.


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schadenfreude wrote:

epil wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear:

i thought ordance weps couldnt shoot after being moved

They can't shoot any other guns if they move. Seeing as how the only other gun a vindicator can have is a storm bolter it's not much of a sacrifice to shoot the big gun.

Also only Ordnance Barrage weapons can't move and shoot at once.

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


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PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

I don't think perfectly valid tactics and combos qualify as cheesy. From the OP, I'm guessing the thread is more about moves that are borderline illegal or blatantly against RAI and vague on RAW.

Tony the guardsman wrote:Hey people!

I post this thread to,hopefully,learn some cheesy moves

I don't usually use them in my gaming store,but Ithink it would be nice if I learn some to fight off little kids or bullies who would WAAC.There are people like that who just stay at the back of the store,playing with newbies and changing the rules just to beat them,I can't stand that!

then use the cheesiest move of them all- tell the staff?

From this description, these tards sound pretty much like a bunch of sadface gakkers. If they need to make up rules to beat children in a stratergy game, theres something seriously wrong with them. I would pity them, more than wanting to beat them.

On the other hand, a copy of the rulebook is all you will need. If you think what they are doing is suspect, tell them you simply won't let them do it until a staff member/rule book confirms it. It really is that simple.

I have a rule book

Use the index more then j/ks <3


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(I personally found the 5th Eds index to be as unwieldy as an alphabet with one vowel that's y and three Qs, when looking for something specific)

Nothing is quite as funny as putting guardsmen in a fortified ruin next to an objective and Incoming! them every turn while a frustrated Tau player fails every turn to shoot a single wound in them.

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


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PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

Pathfinding wrote:

tedurur wrote:Zig Zag cover is rather useless. Sure you would in theory gain a +4 coversave but at the same time you would loose nearly all mobility since you cant move trough units.

They would also grant a 4+ cover save to any units they shot at. A lot of restrictions just to get a 4+ cover save.

Not if you're orks. A line of orks with a 4+ Cover save against Tau would be nasty (or any other army having trouble with CC). The orks don't care about shooting as much.. they will just get really close with half the casualties they would normally receive and then precede to assault you to death.

But really, distinguishing between two units would be a pain... especially of the same type.

Thankfully no one I know is so competitive that they would try that... and the rest of my gaming group would kick out a player so bent for victory.

If the Orks deploy like that they will not reach the Tau line ever. Since they move so slow they will be blown to pieces even with a +4 coversave...

tedurur wrote:If the Orks deploy like that they will not reach the Tau line ever. Since they move so slow they will be blown to pieces even with a +4 coversave...

Not if you do this:

Norade wrote:You can do it if you leave the maximum spaced gaps so models can flow around each other as they move.

you will still loose forward movement no matter what...

But for some units,I can just stay standing on a hill or a building,for example devastators

so you want to give everything that your devastators shoot at a +4 save? Thats an awesome waste of points.

tedurur wrote:so you want to give everything that your devastators shoot at a +4 save? Thats an awesome waste of points.

Good point...and we know that checkerboarding has its flaws as does most cheese...that's why it's cheese.

Let's get more on topic now.

lol,what about useless guardsman in the open?They could do that

Attach Grotsnik to Snikrot's Kommandos. Ambush with them. Laugh at the cries of cheese.

The Bringer wrote:

tedurur wrote:If the Orks deploy like that they will not reach the Tau line ever. Since they move so slow they will be blown to pieces even with a +4 coversave...

Not if you do this:

Norade wrote:You can do it if you leave the maximum spaced gaps so models can flow around each other as they move.

That's only possible for small units. Foot-slogging Orks are huge mobs, so this is literally impossible unless you have no terrain at all and can stretch across the whole DZ. If someone tried to pull such a bs move, I'd call over the TO with very good odds he'd rule against you. If the TO is also an idiot and allows it, I'd be extremely anal during your movement to ensure everything is precise to the millimeter, so the game would never get past turn 2.

And discounting all that, trying this maneuver in a tournament with soft scores = auto-lose.

We're not debating cheese here...we're just throwing it out there.

Especially people on objectives.

Grots for example...

I see what kind of people you deal with alot, I have a simple solution, make the list tougher depending on how much I like you, (unless I REALLY feel like testing out a list). You're eldar, you can get good at that.

Also, during 'Ard Boyz '09 someone checkerboarded, came up in first or second, then a fellows called up and someone at the GW number found it illegal.

I would break out the hammer if anyone tried checkerboarding...

Assault one of two checkerboarding units and it has to move towards the assaulting unit. Easy as that.

Zagstruk in maxed out stormboyz is pretty cheesy, S9 power klaw that strikes at I4 on the turn they deepstrike!

Either that or the old infiltrate along his table edge if he all deploys in reserve chestnut.

Come on,I need some general tactics(and eldar tactics),but not ork tactics...
But thanks anyways

If you have a vehicle thats about to be blown and there are troops surrounding it and you have an IC inside...

Very situational I know...get him out of the dang tank because there is probably room for that one model somewhere and assault the surrounding unit to draw them off your vehicle.

Sacrifice for the greater good.

Tony the guardsman wrote:Come on,I need some general tactics(and eldar tactics),but not ork tactics...
But thanks anyways

keep in mind most(note: i said most) cheezy moves involve particular unit combos like Shrike and assault terminators.

the only general ones i know of are, Wound allocation(drives me nuts, but i use it too and its perfectly legal) Staggering your line(Technically illegal, depending on your location)

One good one is to use pivoting to gain inches of movement(works best with vehicles that are noticably longer then wide, LRs and battle wagons are best)

Deploy your tank with its side right on the edge of your deployment zone,

first turn, pivot from the exact center of the vehicle(this will result in at least an inch of ground forward, 2-3 in the case of battlewagons) move forward measuring from the front of tank as normal.

you should gain 1-3" of movement and or range by doing this.

This is fair and legal, but may result in people not liking you.

Personally, I would plant a vindicator on a tree (not under, ON) just to get a laugh. I'm serious.

Stuff like acolytes...and maybe drones and things?

I took 3 wounds?

one on my warrior
one on my acolyte
oh...another on my inquisitor

now we allocate the inquisitors wound to the acolyte

acolyte takes two wounds and inquisitor gets off scot free!

You play an assaulty army?
Any move closer to m e is a cheesy move

Wehrkind wrote:...I just learned you don't even have to maintain coherency, so pull guys from the middle after going to ground and pinning yourself. Yay!....

"If this happens [unit has lost coherency], the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore coherency in their next Movement phase....[if that isn't possible], then they must move to restore unit coherency as soon as they have the opportunity."

Once I tried to give cover to my kroot by doing this:

e = enemy (in a small bunker)
g = gun drones
k = kroot

..eee
..eee
..eee

g.....g

...k
.....k
...k k
..k k
...k k
..k k
....k

2" gap between the drones, effectively giving me 4" to hide my kroot behind.
My opponents (4 way free for fall) didn't seem to think that shooting through a unit of 2 models was very nice. Jokes about different cheeses were made. I try not to do that kind of thing now, but I still think it had some merit.

privateer4hire wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:...I just learned you don't even have to maintain coherency, so pull guys from the middle after going to ground and pinning yourself. Yay!....

"If this happens [unit has lost coherency], the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore coherency in their next Movement phase....[if that isn't possible], then they must move to restore unit coherency as soon as they have the opportunity."

That's why you send them to ground every turn. They will never get the opportunity to legally move back in to coherency.

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

Use trukks to give Tankbusta Boyz the "tunnel vision" special rule!

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Thats not cheesy

Tony the guardsman wrote:Thats not cheesy

Ok....
Eldar cheese really doesn't exist. They're not new enough. Get a real army.

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Nightwatch wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Hihihi, you can hardly see the first one now

If you just want to outnumber your enemy and be shorter, go with regular boyz, cut their legs off and mount their feet to their torso - voila, short, comes in large numbers, and can actually fight

Take 5 squads of 50 conscripts with priests. Move them one behind the other in close order. In the second squad add a commissar Lord and in the third add a Commissar Lord. Give them all "Send In The Next Wave" rules. the first squad will either get assaulted or assault itself. Either way, soon after it does sacrifice it at the end of your opponents turn, bring it in right behind the last group of conscripts in this lunch line of death. Then on your turn assault with your 50 conscripts with priests. Sacrifice, Rinse, and Repeat. the front squads will give cover to the guys behind. Only weakness is template weapons. But use HWs to take out armor and such to reduce this threat.

Dunno if this is cheesy enough, but it sure sounds a heck of a lot of fun.

Its a really cool thing to do,but i dunno if you need five of them(five squad might be too much)

Personally I enjoy the combined-squad rule abuse. Take five ten-man infantry squads, add one commissar with PW per infantry squad, then add ministorum priests with evicerators for taste. Serve cold.


What? Is that five commissars with power swords? Is that a Priest with an Evicerator? He rolls what for armor penetration? And they have a 50-man wound soak? And they get to reroll all misses on the first charge? What. The. Hell.

Priest is too easy to single-out and kill before he even gets to swing.

They can be singled out?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But they are reasonably slow in combat right?And they cost quite a lot of points

They can be singled out in cc as they are ICs.

Whenever I bring a Priest in an infantry blob, I take only one, leave him dirt cheap and keep him way in the back.
His sole purpose is to provide a reroll to hit to all others.

Terminus wrote:Priest is too easy to single-out and kill before he even gets to swing.

Well, isn't a 40-50 man unit big enough that the IC can be attached at the back - even though he moves to engage first, he won't get into contact. For example, you could trail 2-3 guardsmen behind the unit, with the priest behind them.

As for forming such a blob in the first place, I think only 1 commissar is necessary, the sergeants have enough power weapons to do the job handily. Once you've bought the first commissar for stubborn and rerolling purposes, 45 points for every PW seems like a huge waste.

Also, that's still not cheesy, just good tactics. How about the following vehicle tricks:
Take smoke launchers on one tank in a squadron (IG) - when they're used, half the squadron is obscured, so the whole squadron benefits from the cover save. Useful on short-range vehicles that need a turn to get into action.
Take a farseer in a wave serpent, he can fortune it before it moves flat out, gaining a rerolling cover save - I'd try this on a fire dragon squad to make sure they reach an important target.
Star engines - move up, unload your squad and fire. Then move the wave serpent to block off the nearest and most threatening unit's line of sight.

Again, I don't really see those as cheesy - the smoke launchers thing is gaming the system a bit, but hey, that's how its played.

except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

Wehrkind wrote:
And CT Gamer, it isn't being a donkey cave, it is just knowing your way around the rules better than your opponent. In a friendly game it can raise an eyebrow, but in a tournament that is exactly what you are competing over.

personally I never practice or accept the arguement "it's ok to be an a**hole because its a tournament".

I also don't seek out ways to bend/exploit the rules. If you are intentionally doing so you are the kind of person I'd care not to play.

I guess for me toy soldiers isn't the "s3rious buizn3ss 111" that it seems to be for some...

Ail-Shan wrote:except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

You're right, good catch.

Makes me glad I've never actually tried that, it was just theory.

Nothing to see here, move along.

CT GAMER wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:
And CT Gamer, it isn't being a donkey cave, it is just knowing your way around the rules better than your opponent. In a friendly game it can raise an eyebrow, but in a tournament that is exactly what you are competing over.

personally I never practice or accept the arguement "it's ok to be an a**hole because its a tournament".

I also don't seek out ways to bend/exploit the rules. If you are intentionally doing so you are the kind of person I'd care not to play.

I guess for me toy soldiers isn't the "s3rious buizn3ss 111" that it seems to be for some...

I am sorry the concept of competition within a rule set is so foreign to you. You are really missing out on an intellectually stimulating part of the game.

And no one said you should be a donkey cave in a tournament, just that when it comes to tournaments you are competing using knowledge of the rules and their effects. The very nature of the process requires knowing how things work better than others. That's why they are called tournaments and not "friendly games", or "Throwing around dice while pushing models around."
Besides, some of the most fun games I have had were at tournaments, and often with the beardiest of cheese monkeys I have met.

Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

A-Squad 1
B-Squad 2
C-Squad three
D-BWGN with mek and force field

AA AA AA
AA AA AA
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB CC
BB CC --and tadah! 4+ cover save all around

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Hihihi, you can hardly see the first one now

If you just want to outnumber your enemy and be shorter, go with regular boyz, cut their legs off and mount their feet to their torso - voila, short, comes in large numbers, and can actually fight

you wanna see super grots?

take mad doc grotsnik.

give em all cygrot bodies, voila, 8 points of cheezy 5+ invuln save goodness. look out terminators.

Grey Templar wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Hihihi, you can hardly see the first one now

If you just want to outnumber your enemy and be shorter, go with regular boyz, cut their legs off and mount their feet to their torso - voila, short, comes in large numbers, and can actually fight

you wanna see super grots?

take mad doc grotsnik.

give em all cygrot bodies, voila, 8 points of cheezy 5+ invuln save goodness. look out terminators.

14th!...just had to jump on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And my 333rd post...oh noes...

Ail-Shan wrote:except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

It would be nice if you can actually do that

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

great, now you have 10" Kan Wall...

tedurur wrote:

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

great, now you have 10" Kan Wall...

Might also work with squads of Carnifexes...though I would personally use a squad of gargoyles for that purpose.

Nice stuff here guys

Cheesiest thing I heard of is sticking Baharroth with a Wraithguard unit. Wraithguard are not aspect warriors, so Baharroth can join them and can give them his Skyleap ability, meaning you can then deepstrike with them every other turn!
Expect arguements though...

arguments like the one saying you can't do it? Cause you can't. Exarch/warrior powers (such as sky leap) only affect aspect warriors and autarchs. Also in the Eldar FAQ you are not allowed to sky-leap with an autarch without swooping hawk wings.

Ail-Shan wrote: Exarch/warrior powers (such as sky leap) only affect aspect warriors and autarchs.

Ah - I somehow managed to miss that sneaky line in my codex - fair play. I remove my cheese forthwith...

It could be disgusting if it works
Deep striking wraith guards

Grey Templar wrote:For BAs you can get 5 LRs in a 1750 list with 200 points to spend on HQs(5 min sized assault squads)

For Grey Knights you can run 2 LRs, 2 min sized PAGK squads, 3 units of 10 GK terminators(one is a GKHs retinue). LRs are for PAGKs to sit in on objectives and snipe enemy vehicles.

Orks. 2 big meks, 2 Deffdreds, 9 killa kans, 120 gretchin and 12 runtherds.(need i say more?)

Combine a PBS with the BA psychic power Fear of the darkness

use Vindicare assassins to snipe Nobs out of Boy mobs to totally nerf them.

Run 9 typhoon LS in a space marine list. 18 fast, BS4 missiles and 9 heavy bolters? yes please

BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear combine with scouting Baal Predators with inferno cannons for extra

hmmm. I kinda like the land speeder cheese. I'm thinking 3 typhoons w/MM and 2 sqds 3 MM 3 Hflamers with Vulkan. 720pts of fast/deep striking cheese. Of course I would run it at 2500pts.

Taking it at 1000pt will be better

Tony the guardsman wrote:Taking it at 1000pt will be better

It could pulled off with 2 scouts squads and without taken Vulkan as the HQ. Its just allot more cheesy with Vulkan, I guess the tornado launchers could be reduced. You could fit a master of the forge with a conversion beamer, however.

Yeah,scouts and MotF will stay at the back and speeders rush around