As I continue to review the new codex, it seems to be that blood angels are just space marines+ . You lose some HQ options, but have almost every other option in the space marine book with the added blood angels options. I realize there is something to be said for fluff and your armies paint and past use, but as a person sitting here with assembled and unpainted space marines it seems like switching to blood angels is a no brainer. What do you guys think?

I personally like bike armies and vanilla SM can do it better than BE. (50 bikes & 6 dual autocannon dreads, yes please!) Also Vanilla SM is a lot more customizable IMO.

Also I refuse to hop on the new codex bandwagon, Vanilla SM will be updated much more regularly than BA, I don't want to play golden sparkling nipple-marines.

Edit:
The same points you bring up were said about SW back when they came out

I agree, and my temptation is not fueled by flavor of the month fervor, but more from the fact that I am a new 40k player. I came from fantasy and had a hard time picking an army because I played and loved vampire counts. Then I read the blood angels lore, and it feels like the closest thing. It sure isn't the necrons. So for flavor wise, I am very tempted to head back to the most vampirish units 40k has to offer.

As stated in other places there is other reasons to play SM over BA.

1. Bikes as troops
2. Twin-linked Melta's and famers
3. Thunderfire cannon
4. Iron Clad Dreds
5. Cheaper Transports

This is not an all inclusive list by any means.

Personally I play BA's but I have only played BA's since 3rd. I have never played Vanilla marines, and even when we had the bad PDF codex I played through.

A. Blood Angels fluff is terrible
B. There are a lot of options, but it all boils down to Sanguinity Priest x amount of squads, Mephiston, sprinkled with Dreadnoughts
C. I'll take my 'weaker' codex that has multiple different ways to play. Not just running at people by either using jumpacks or fast Rhinos/Razorbacks

Most 40k armies are just running at the other player, BA are just another one of them.

i am going to start a BA army, not because i like the fluff(and while the codex is bad, the basic fluff is cool) but because i love assault marines.

Assault marines, fast vindicators, and jump pack dreadnoughts are the temptation.

well, I will never buy any bikes because I find them really silly personally. It just does not fit my style. So I wouldn't be losing much there.

I love the Dakka posting rules !

kaptaink wrote:A. Blood Angels fluff is terrible
B. There are a lot of options, but it all boils down to Sanguinity Priest x amount of squads, Mephiston, sprinkled with Dreadnoughts
C. I'll take my 'weaker' codex that has multiple different ways to play. Not just running at people by either using jumpacks or fast Rhinos/Razorbacks

Most 40k armies are just running at the other player, BA are just another one of them.

A. I disagree.
B. I have yet to take a special character. Too costly, points wise.
C. You've got me there.

Do not play Blood Angels if you are not prepared to answer the following question-

So, how long did it take you to do his nipples? They look really hard.

Basically, it comes down to what you want out of an army. If you want vampires and vampire wannabes or dig that whole everyone's going crazy so we might as well die fighting mystique, then go for it. If you want a booze swilling pack of gloryhounds who are also fun at parties, go space wolves. If for some reason you just want to use marines of various colors to fight your enemies, go vanilla. Marines and Marine equivalents (or MEQ) are a dime a dozen. You can field them with any codex you like, you're getting the same basic experience. Which codex you use just alters the flavor a bit. Think of it like Coke, Cherry Coke, and Coke with Lime.

The reason not to play Blood Angels is to avoid all the wailing about being overpowered and broken. It's all you will hear from your fellows and see on the net. Best to wait until the next overpowered, broken codex comes out so they'll be moaning about something else and you won't get any grief for playing the Angels.

the nipples on a dreadnought are 6" long, and made of razor sharp adamantite. Many a traitor guardsman has been impaled upon them. They were going to give the furiosos an extra attack from their power-nipples, but it was removed just before the release of the codex, because it was deemed too gay for words. However, the legend lives on.

If I had an unpainted army, I might consider the BA codex if it wasn't for the fact that the Space Puppies codex is just a so much better fit to my mentality.

Honersstodnt wrote:the nipples on a dreadnought are 6" long, and made of razor sharp adamantite. Many a traitor guardsman has been impaled upon them. They were going to give the furiosos an extra attack from their power-nipples, but it was removed just before the release of the codex, because it was deemed too gay for words. However, the legend lives on.

An epic tale indeed

Scoring Bikes and Terminators

Green Marines are the Best Marines!!

*That includes salamanders*

Nah

Jump ye not on the scarlet bandwagon!
Thou shalt have thy nipples pulled by other players

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Nah

Jump ye not on the scarlet bandwagon!
Thou shalt have thy nipples pulled by other players

This is going in my Signature good sir!

Because they're boring

Scoring Bikes and Terminators

Green Marines are the Best Marines!!

*That includes salamanders*

Lest you forget the best of all...scoring land speeders!

Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

They're heretics!

"Oh you're playing Blood Angels? Let me get my nipple twister list."

Volkov wrote:
Lest you forget the best of all...scoring land speeders!

Vehicles are never scoring as per the BGB & IIRC sammael only makes them troops. He can't make them scoring.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Volkov wrote:
Lest you forget the best of all...scoring land speeders!

Vehicles are never scoring as per the BGB & IIRC sammael only makes them troops. He can't make them scoring.

Actually, our codex says they Scoring, which means they are. Codex specifics trump Rule Book.

Pg 27 of Dark Angels Codex 4th Edition:

Ravenwing bike squadrons at full strength may fight either as a single unit of six bikes of break down into two three-man Combat Squads.

Much like Combat squads, the squadron's Attack Bike and Land Speeder are purchased together with the squadron and then deployed at the same time as the squadron's bikes, but from then on they always operate as completely independent scoring units of one model.

There is nothing in the errata or FAQ for the Dark Angels Codex that changes this.

Ah ok. I just gave my pdf a quick once over & didn't see them listed as scoring. I'll take your word though

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Ah ok. I just gave my pdf a quick once over & didn't see them listed as scoring. I'll take your word though

Probably because they aren't normally?

From the wording, you could take it that they are ALWAYS scoring when they combat squad

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

Kind of a waste of time, since you could have just said HQs, but I think you just wanted to have a bigger list.

I am going to go with blood angels, regardless of current forum hate (which will pass when the next codex comes out) because I like the look and flavor of them the best. I also have enough points and units to play either blood angels or vanilla on the same paint scheme. The only thing I am selling is calgar, which is fine since it was a worthless purchase anyway. Other than that I will still have all of the same things, and just a couple more boxes of blood angels stuff.

I love my blood angels army. From the golden nipply man-perfection that is the sanguinary guard, to the healing and tender hand of the sanguinary priests, to the bravery of flaming assault marines, no army could be better. When a group of strong men rush you, to take your objective, you know you are playing blood angels. When my flaming assault marines spray you down with righteous promethium thats blood angels. And when my predator flank attacks you, to fire its assault cannon at your precious rear armor, you know its blood angels. Nothing represents what I want more in a man, I mean army, then the blood angels. From their beautiful chiseled perfection to their willingness to show emotion, they are the definition of manfection. Now if youll excuse me, I have a date with my right hand.

Gitzbitah wrote:
So, how long did it take you to do his nipples? They look really hard.

Space is cold.

The BA fluff really makes me cringe. It's the worst I've seen in a codex. And the army list looks a bit like a BA player's wishlist.

BA are fun, there are differences with them compaired to say SW's or DA or standard space marines, but remember that marine army is just a quick codex change away from making it a different army altogether.

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

Kind of a waste of time, since you could have just said HQs, but I think you just wanted to have a bigger list.

I am going to go with blood angels, regardless of current forum hate (which will pass when the next codex comes out) because I like the look and flavor of them the best. I also have enough points and units to play either blood angels or vanilla on the same paint scheme. The only thing I am selling is calgar, which is fine since it was a worthless purchase anyway. Other than that I will still have all of the same things, and just a couple more boxes of blood angels stuff.

Perhaps I could have said HQ's but that would shortchange the army a fair bit.

Want an entirely outflanking army? You need codex space marines.

Want an entirely infiltrating army? (or did shrike give scout? can't remember off the top of my head) codex space marines

twin linked flamers, melta weapons and thunder hammers? Not in BA.

Scoring stubborn sternguard, not in BA.


The HQ's really open up different tactics in the vanilla dex that go beyond mere unit composition.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:I love my blood angels army. From the golden nipply man-perfection that is the sanguinary guard, to the healing and tender hand of the sanguinary priests, to the bravery of flaming assault marines, no army could be better. When a group of strong men rush you, to take your objective, you know you are playing blood angels. When my flaming assault marines spray you down with righteous promethium thats blood angels. And when my predator flank attacks you, to fire its assault cannon at your precious rear armor, you know its blood angels. Nothing represents what I want more in a man, I mean army, then the blood angels. From their beautiful chiseled perfection to their willingness to show emotion, they are the definition of manfection. Now if youll excuse me, I have a date with my right hand.

Epic win.

As someone else mentioned, I'll keep my termies as troops and fearless... almost everything.

Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

Grey Templar wrote:i am going to start a BA army, not because i like the fluff but because i love assault marines.

Assault marines, fast vindicators, and jump pack dreadnoughts are the temptation.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

Kind of a waste of time, since you could have just said HQs, but I think you just wanted to have a bigger list.

I am going to go with blood angels, regardless of current forum hate (which will pass when the next codex comes out) because I like the look and flavor of them the best. I also have enough points and units to play either blood angels or vanilla on the same paint scheme. The only thing I am selling is calgar, which is fine since it was a worthless purchase anyway. Other than that I will still have all of the same things, and just a couple more boxes of blood angels stuff.

Perhaps I could have said HQ's but that would shortchange the army a fair bit.

Want an entirely outflanking army? You need codex space marines.

Want an entirely infiltrating army? (or did shrike give scout? can't remember off the top of my head) codex space marines

twin linked flamers, melta weapons and thunder hammers? Not in BA.

Scoring stubborn sternguard, not in BA.


The HQ's really open up different tactics in the vanilla dex that go beyond mere unit composition.

Yes, but you could list many differences made with blood angels HQ's as well.

Also you can have TH/SS Termies just like vanilla. That isn't removed from BA

I love the Dakka posting rules !

Shrike gives everything with CT Fleet, and allows one unit to Outflank [RAW] or Infiltrate [INAT / other rules changes]

BA are a fun army that isnt broken or overpowered, as they pay for everything - and have some gorgeous models. They're a one trick-ish pony, marines running at you, but whats wrong with that?

BA have a play style that's unlike any other chapter, but:

* LOTS of people are jumping on their bandwagon right now, and
* They don't outclass vanilla marines at all.

Red's a nice colour though.

Orky-Kowboy wrote:BA have a play style that's unlike any other chapter, but:

* LOTS of people are jumping on their bandwagon right now, and
* They don't outclass vanilla marines at all.

Red's a nice colour though.

No reason not to play them, then. Just because lots of people want to use them, no reason not to.

And, please, quit the homosexual jokes. It's not funny, not clever, and only embarasses you.

UltraPrime wrote:

And, please, quit the homosexual jokes. It's not funny, not clever, and only embarasses you.

Very well timed and quite correct.

UltraPrime wrote: And, please, quit the homosexual jokes. It's not funny, not clever, and only embarasses you.

I wasn't making a 'homosexual joke'. Red IS a nice colour. It looks attractive on the tabletop.

Orky-Kowboy wrote:

UltraPrime wrote: And, please, quit the homosexual jokes. It's not funny, not clever, and only embarasses you.

I wasn't making a 'homosexual joke'. Red IS a nice colour. It looks attractive on the tabletop. What the f*** is your problem?

Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you. Was aimed at a now-deleted post. I can see how the misunderstanding was made, so no hard feelings?

Oh, sorry, saw the poster you were refering to. Sorry, overreacted there.

CT GAMER wrote:
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

You do that quite a lot. You should probably go see a doctor.

The reason to not play BA is because Tyranids are so much better than BA and SW according to everyone that does not play Tyranids.

Vepr wrote:The reason to not play BA is because Tyranids are so much better than BA and SW according to everyone that does not play Tyranids.

I think that pretty much nails it

Vepr wrote:The reason to not play BA is because Tyranids are so much better than BA and SW according to everyone that does not play Tyranids.

wut

Is that some nid players complaining that their imbalanced netbuild got screwed? Lots of sympathy there. The nid codex is strong, it just requires some more thought to play than it did previously - it is the same idea as eldar, just flipped on its head.

There are few reasons not to play BA, as long as you l ike what they are - an in your face marine army, an all out attack force as opposed to the more steady paced blue marine army.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Is that some nid players complaining that their imbalanced netbuild got screwed? Lots of sympathy there. The nid codex is strong, it just requires some more thought to play than it did previously - it is the same idea as eldar, just flipped on its head.

There are few reasons not to play BA, as long as you l ike what they are - an in your face marine army, an all out attack force as opposed to the more steady paced blue marine army.

Exactly the reason to not play BA. Nids are more powerful by far and easier to play. If you are looking for a challenge play SW or IG.

I've been a blood angels guy since I got the 2nd edition boxed set. Not like these new kids. Why can't GW "update" somebody else and leave us alone?

And if I was in charge there wouldn't be any bad fluff, or nipples in any way, shape or form.

Here's a reason to play BA. . .You actually do something! Tadaaaaa! As opposed to the countless games that are decided from across the map, hiding in cover and shooting around rocks and hills. Lame. My BA never stop moving. I'm constantly using guerrilla tactics, moving in and breaking something and then running away when something bigger tries to eat me. I'd rather be deep striking and outflanking all game then coming onto the board just to sit and fire for 3 1/2 hours. My army has dakka, smasha, and blasta and I loves it

So, stop hating and get over it.

Vepr wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Is that some nid players complaining that their imbalanced netbuild got screwed? Lots of sympathy there. The nid codex is strong, it just requires some more thought to play than it did previously - it is the same idea as eldar, just flipped on its head.

There are few reasons not to play BA, as long as you l ike what they are - an in your face marine army, an all out attack force as opposed to the more steady paced blue marine army.

Exactly the reason to not play BA. Nids are more powerful by far and easier to play. If you are looking for a challenge play SW or IG.

Your impotent nerd-rage is reaching new heights of idiocy. No one ever said Tyranids were better than Space Wolves or Imperial Guard, they just disagree when someone loses 2 or 3 games with their 4th edition netlist, and then decry the codex as inflexible, weak and generally useless.

One more reason to play vanilla...you can still take artificer armour as an upgrade

Volkov wrote:One more reason to play vanilla...you can still take artificer armour as an upgrade

Or just enjoy it on every unit without extra cost with BA (many choices have this)

Terminus wrote:

Vepr wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Is that some nid players complaining that their imbalanced netbuild got screwed? Lots of sympathy there. The nid codex is strong, it just requires some more thought to play than it did previously - it is the same idea as eldar, just flipped on its head.

There are few reasons not to play BA, as long as you l ike what they are - an in your face marine army, an all out attack force as opposed to the more steady paced blue marine army.

Exactly the reason to not play BA. Nids are more powerful by far and easier to play. If you are looking for a challenge play SW or IG.

Your impotent nerd-rage is reaching new heights of idiocy. No one ever said Tyranids were better than Space Wolves or Imperial Guard, they just disagree when someone loses 2 or 3 games with their 4th edition netlist, and then decry the codex as inflexible, weak and generally useless.

What? I am just agreeing with you guys! All the Tyranid players presenting their concerns and problems with the codex are just wrong no matter what their level of experience. Anyone that has issues with the new nid dex was either a nidzilla player or they are a noob that just does not understand the proper use of words like tactics, intricacies, and "synergy". I am going to have to agree with the less fortunate followers of IG and SW when they say stfu and learn to play.

Back on topic BA seem like a really fun army to play and they can be fun to play against. There are some really interesting builds and some crazy stuff to try for fun like very heavy dread lists etc. Other than Meph being a bit of a pain I have had fun playing against BA armies so far.

At least my slowed troll post was found amusing by one person.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

kaptaink wrote:A. Blood Angels fluff is terrible

A. I disagree.

Then you haven't read it. Seriously, while I'm all for people making their own decisions about fluff, in this case you're certifiably, undeniably wrong. Maybe in the past their fluff was mostly awesome with just a dash of lame (the whole Pretty Marines thing they have going on):




But now that Matt Ward has dipped his, erm, let's say pen, to paper and added his brand of embellishment, they are even worse than the Ultramarines (who were also pretty awesome before he arrived). Awful, just awful.

I like the fluff, part of the reason I want to play the army. As I said though, I was a vampire counts player, and now their is finally something comparable lore wise to play.

I have to admit after the fluff in the SW codex with Canis WolfWolf riding his wolf Wolfie and Tyranids getting a usb downloaded super tyrant that helps them win a few battles before they lose every war fricking war and Blood Angels using blood fists which is... a bloody blood fist... or something and Mephiston lord of Gouda... whoops I meant BLOOD Gouda... I am little bit afraid of what we are going to see in the next codex.

I am the fluff master at my FLGS, and I have to say that the fluff in the BA Codex is horrendous...

Theres to many spezz marines already.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Compared to the new fluff that all Chaos gods get along just fine and just LOVE eachother (Khorne and Tzeentch are best buds now!), the BA fluff is fine.

AS for the nerd rage over Nids - the codex CAN be strong, it just requires playing in a very different way to 4th ed. No more anvil-hammers, you have glass-hammers and buff / debuff units. Use them well, they do you good.

Vepr wrote:I have to admit after the fluff in the SW codex with Canis WolfWolf riding his wolf Wolfie and Tyranids getting a usb downloaded super tyrant that helps them win a few battles before they lose every war fricking war and Blood Angels using blood fists which is... a bloody blood fist... or something and Mephiston lord of Gouda... whoops I meant BLOOD Gouda... I am little bit afraid of what we are going to see in the next codex.

Greymesis force weapons and greynoughts with knight fists?

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Probably no one wanted to admit even a passing familiarity with the subject.

Terminus wrote:

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Probably no one wanted to admit even a passing familiarity with the subject.

Ahem. What subject is this? >.>

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Because reds8n deleted my original post, quoted somewhere.

I cant see a reason to play BA for competitive gaming. Or to put it better no reason why BA are your only option. If you really like the fluff or playstyle thats good and all. But if you are looking for an easy win net list army then you are taking the easy way out, and are only hurting yourself in the long run.

It works one of two ways
1-you are a hobbyist player, and as such should paint and play the army you love. You want to tell a story, to put on a good show. Then use whatever looks prettiest, winning shouldnt be a concern for you. Its about relaxation.

2-you are a competitive player, which breaks down into 2 types.
A-you want to grow a bigger E-peen. Rethink your life and quit playing 40k, you are the kind of player that is killing the game.

B-you enjoy competition, you like the thought that goes into competitive gaming, you love to drive 150 miles one way to play games against people you never met before. If you enjoy competition whats the point in bringing a net list. Its not competitive, it turns the game into a rock-paper-scissors match up fest. And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard. They are supposed to be auto win, which is why I have no sympathy for people bringing them to ard boyz this year. I do feel sorry for people who bring stuff like dark eldar and are collateral damage though. But whats the point of competing with a list you didnt write.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Compared to the new fluff that all Chaos gods get along just fine and just LOVE eachother (Khorne and Tzeentch are best buds now!), the BA fluff is fine.

Khorne and Tzeentch never had a problem with eachother (other than Khorne thought that Tzeentch was a coward for using magic), Khorne hates Slaanesh, Tzeentch hates Nurgle.

As to OP, play the army you want to play, not the one that people can give you reasons why you shouldnt. If you like how the BA play, play them, and stick with them after the bandwagon goes elsewere.

From a non-competative point of view:

- They're Imperial scum.
- They're Space Marines.
- Their fluff sucks.
- Their leader is a blonde Edward Cullen in space.

To me, that's reason enough not to play them.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

Well besides the huge lack of originallity, and the complete bandwagon jumping that goes along with playing BA

Fluff is absolute fething slowed

also its hard to take advantage of BA specialties when your playing 100 other BA players

Terminus wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

very true...when facing a netlist you almost always feel the prestige of the list...but then you can quickly come to realize how poorly someone is at playing someone else's list

The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Nightsbane wrote:the twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood.

Of course, not many vampires pre-Cullen were sparkly.

And then came the Sanguinary Guard...

(I kid, I kid. It's just that they DO look a bit ridiculous, although the same could be said of a unit in practically any army.)

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

Kind of a waste of time, since you could have just said HQs, but I think you just wanted to have a bigger list.

I am going to go with blood angels, regardless of current forum hate (which will pass when the next codex comes out) because I like the look and flavor of them the best. I also have enough points and units to play either blood angels or vanilla on the same paint scheme. The only thing I am selling is calgar, which is fine since it was a worthless purchase anyway. Other than that I will still have all of the same things, and just a couple more boxes of blood angels stuff.

Perhaps I could have said HQ's but that would shortchange the army a fair bit.

Want an entirely outflanking army? You need codex space marines.

Want an entirely infiltrating army? (or did shrike give scout? can't remember off the top of my head) codex space marines

twin linked flamers, melta weapons and thunder hammers? Not in BA.

Scoring stubborn sternguard, not in BA.


The HQ's really open up different tactics in the vanilla dex that go beyond mere unit composition.

Yes, but you could list many differences made with blood angels HQ's as well.

Also you can have TH/SS Termies just like vanilla. That isn't removed from BA

The point wasn't to list the differences between the codex.

The op wanted a reason NOT to play BA and instead play Vanilla marines.

So I was simply listing all the things that can be done with a vanilla marine army that CANNOT be done with a BA army. I wasn't listing what BA CAN do.

Can BA have an all outflanking army? No. Would you like an all outflanking army? Yes. There you go, a reason to play vanilla marines.

Also check your reading comprehension, I specified CHEAPER TH/SS termies in the nilla codex than the BA. I'm well aware BA can have them too.

People mention good ol' Edward because some of the BA models are all golden and pretty. I'm no vampire expert but most vampire movies, games, books, etc. I've seen don't really have long blond haired dudes wearing golden armor flying on massive angel wings into combat.

Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Space Wolves needed an update first because it was old, and Blood Angels needed an update second because their codex was released in an awful format.

Seems like a coincidence to me.

Necroman wrote:

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Space Wolves needed an update first because it was old, and Blood Angels needed an update second because their codex was released in an awful format.

Seems like a coincidence to me.

You would say that.

Almost as if they just started updating all the old codecies...hm...no...if that were true we'd be seeing Grey Knights and Dark Eldar soon...

To each his own, the sanguinary guard and sanguinor were two models that made me start thinking blood angels in the first place. They look so roman/grecian and dangerous in a faceless/construct way. I like it quite a bit. As I said, to each his own though...

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Hey, if more girls start to play the game in my area solely because of Edward Cullen, I wouldn't complain..... Of course, I'm 18 and single, so that might have something to do with that

@OP:

You need a reason not to play BA?

1. Friends don't let friends play MEQ armies. Marines as a whole are underwhelming and average; good at everything, exceptional at nothing. Space Wolves might break the mold, but BA do not.

2. Some 50% and more of 40k players fall into this category. You don't want to be a mindless drone.

3. So many other armies have better fluff, more creative armies, and can beat the crap out of BA as easily as they can out of other marine armies.

Dashofpepper wrote:1. Friends don't let friends play MEQ armies. Marines as a whole are underwhelming and average; good at everything, exceptional at nothing. Space Wolves might break the mold, but BA do not.

2. Some 50% and more of 40k players fall into this category. You don't want to be a mindless drone.

3. So many other armies have better fluff, more creative armies, and can beat the crap out of BA as easily as they can out of other marine armies.

Chaos Space Marines don't exactly fall into these categories, as MEQ. I mean, Yeah most of their units can beat the crap out of you both in shooting and CC, but still, they are definatly very easy to be creative with the army.......


Right?

Nightsbane wrote:The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Are you a troll?

ductvader wrote:

Terminus wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

very true...when facing a netlist you almost always feel the prestige of the list...but then you can quickly come to realize how poorly someone is at playing someone else's list

Perhaps I should have clarified. Netlists are very effective armies that one person had success with. But a lot of people start them up expecting the same, and then put no more thought into it. I have a friend who plays chaos, and he subs them in as wolves on occasion. He said he turns almost all thinking off when playing the wolves, as he just expects them to auto win games for him. I find this is the impression of a lot of netlist kiddies that I get. I play this guard army list that I read about in a blog, or this wolf army I read about in another blog, or this BA army I read about in a forum. And so and so on the internet said it kicks ass, so I will beat everyone with it. Hell I started out this way with my mechdar back in 4th. Generic clown car netlist, won most games against beginners, but when I ran into someone who knew how to bring the pain I lost, as I wasnt used to thinking to play.

So thats what I meant. Lists that people think will win the game for them.


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terribletrygon wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Are you a troll?

Sounds like you are angry someone wrote a better series of young adult novels than "Harry Potter".

Shoggoth is correct.

Net lists are "perfect" for the person who built them, has a tactical strategy for that list.

the problem is that, while the lists may be effective, its really how the builder used it when playing it and that is something that doesn't come accross on the internet, blog, or whereever you found it.






the reason one wouldn't play BA's is if the play style isn't for you.

BA's are an assaulty, short ranged fire power army. if you don't like that then play something else.

The codex is pretty well balanced, but fails in the fluff department. if you like the basic fluff then; Great you have found a fun army for yourself and its decently powerful too.


Codex and army is Good(but not OP), fluff in codex itself is terrible, but if you ignore that then its a good army.

I chose space marines because I find their fluff the most interesting. Necrons is having an entire drone force led by a couple interesting units ( and robot spiders....come on...) Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys. Orks are mindless, and simply not interesting. Nids are overplayed and also the hive mind is boring. Other than that there is chaos, and I don't really favor any of the daemon models. That pretty much sums up the entire game, half the choices are a part of the Imperium in some way. The rest are listed above. These are my opinions, and are not in any way fact.

The difference is that I jumped into this without any board knowledge, tournament knowledge of meta-gaming knowledge. Our group of 20 or so players around here play for the hobby and for the fun. Each person chose their forces and what they bought based on personal choice, and a netlist has never appeared at one of our tables. So forgive me if I don't buy the "cool kids don't play space marines" bunk. In my group there are three of us now that do, and two months ago there were none. People should play what they find interesting, and not pay attention to meta-gaming or wanting the other dakka posters to let them be a cool kid. I made this topic because I was initially confused as to what the point was of the BA codex, since it seemed on the surface to mainly be a space marines+ . I have learned the changes and decided to switch to them. I did this because I LIKE the fluff, and also I like having strengths instead of being stuck in units of mediocrity with the space marines (great range and choice, but I am not a fan of "jack of all trades, master of none" play).

The twilight comments above were made because the jokes are old, and just keep popping up because people have codex envy. Twilight isn't even that terrible of a series truth be told. It's not something I would have on my shelf, and sparkling vamps is super stupid, but it's better than most female target market film.

Anyway I think this topic is settled now. No need to keep making dumb nipple jokes or crying about the amount of space marine players that won't play your pwetty wittle wace.


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Grey Templar wrote:Shoggoth is correct.

Net lists are "perfect" for the person who built them, has a tactical strategy for that list.

the problem is that, while the lists may be effective, its really how the builder used it when playing it and that is something that doesn't come accross on the internet, blog, or whereever you found it.






the reason one wouldn't play BA's is if the play style isn't for you.

BA's are an assaulty, short ranged fire power army. if you don't like that then play something else.

The codex is pretty well balanced, but fails in the fluff department. if you like the basic fluff then; Great you have found a fun army for yourself and its decently powerful too.


Codex and army is Good(but not OP), fluff in codex itself is terrible, but if you ignore that then its a good army.

thanks, I appreciate that your posts across topics is always so constructive and helpful.

Nightsbane wrote:
The twilight comments above were made because the jokes are old, and just keep popping up because people have codex envy. Twilight isn't even that terrible of a series truth be told. It's not something I would have on my shelf, and sparkling vamps is super stupid, but it's better than most female target market film.

Anyway I think this topic is settled now. No need to keep making dumb nipple jokes or crying about the amount of space marine players that won't play your pwetty wittle wace.

You were taking tongue-in-cheek comments really seriously, so I thought you were being sarcastic or encouraging 'responses'. Sorry if you were really being serious about it.

My personal reasons for not playing Blood Angels:

1. I haven't figured out a decent conversion for the Sanguinator. I mean, it would be dramatic to show the figure when the daemon prince inside finally hatches out of its golden shell and comes out, but that's really hard to model.

2. If I played Blood Angels, I wouldn't be able to sleep over the sound of the Land Raiders deep striking. I fear I would be woken up each night by the soft screams of their engines as the plummet to the ground.

3. I just finally put together some test figures for my Space Werewolves units. It'll take months to figure out what to do for a Vampire and undead themed marine army.

WOW

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/92321-.html

No one can question Blood Angel sexuality anywhere

Nightsbane wrote:Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys.

*enter Inquisitor*

How do you know how much Eldar sex toys cost?

*drags you off in chains to be tortured and executed for the twin crimes of heresy and colluding with the Xenos*

let me go paint a rainbow sangiunor.

maybe i can model big penises on some orks and then claim orks are gay.

besides, eldar are omnisexual

@OP: I play vanilla mostly but will probably play a lot of BA in the future too. I'm not very much attached to the fluff of any particular chapter so I think up my own and play with whichever codex looks to be fun.

the vindicator for the Blood Angels does not pie-plate

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:let me go paint a rainbow sangiunor.

maybe i can model big penises on some orks and then claim orks are gay.

besides, eldar are omnisexual

Make sure that they are all big though, some might under-perform based on inadequacy.

im da biggest, so im da boss!

Terminus wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys.

*enter Inquisitor*

How do you know how much Eldar sex toys cost?

*drags you off in chains to be tortured and executed for the twin crimes of heresy and colluding with the Xenos*

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Nightsbane wrote:Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys.

I thought this is Any reason NOT to play blood angels? thread, not All the great reasons to play Eldar

Macok wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys.

I thought this is Any reason NOT to play blood angels? thread, not All the great reasons to play Eldar

Sure, Eldar are great if this inspired your army:

http://static.open.salon.com/files/coneheads1245765854.jpg

Who doesn't love the coneheads?!

Blood Angels are Marines geared towards assault.
They have jump packs and fast moving transports to reach the enemy front ranks very quickly.
The bad news is that when the reached the enemy front ranks,
they will eventually die.
In fact, there are units out there in the 40k universe that are better in cc than BA. Hands down!
Moreover, BA armies tend to be very low in numbers
and so eventually get outnumbers.
Finally, I believe that games are won by more than just assault.
Depolyment, movement, maneuvering, and shooting are all important.

wuestenfux wrote:
Finally, I believe that games are won by more than just assault.
Deployment, movement, maneuvering, and shooting are all important.

The BA have access too all of those things as well. They are more than just assault. They have access to most of the same shooty units C:SM get. They too have sternguard and Dev squads, and unlike Other SM armies their Rhino based chases are fast vehicles, meaning that they can move and fire better than other SM. The Idea that the BA are a one-trick pony is a falsehood, they are in my opinion better able to adapt much better than other marine armies.

More than a one-trick pony.
However, the lists I've seen so far could consider BA as a 'one-trick pony' army.

Right now people are playing to their new strengths, but since only HQ's and one or two choices are gone (such as thunderfire cannon) people will come up with shooty lists and other variations. The priests alone can cause a massive boost to tac marine survivability. This means you could have basic tactical marines zooming in twice as fast with jump priests behind them ready to FNP them. It comepletely redefines and buffs the rhino rush.

The new BA codex allows to implement a variant of Rhino rush that is more capable of that of the vanilla Marines.

The Rhinos zoom down at full speed with Assault Marines and Priests behind.
Rhino wall or leap frogging depends on the number of Rhinos.
Now FNP gives a new component to this kind of rush, since
the Marines rushing forward are tougher than vanilla Marines.

I like the new BA codex. I had a large BA army from way back before the PDF codex and I'm happy to have the new options and models. I think the gold armour looks great (if nipples and six pack are good enough for the classics like Romans who am I to complain?). I also like the angel wings (bit awkward to pack but then so are my Valkyries). I LOVE the librarian Dred, even if my magna grapple has failed to hit anything yet and he dies on turn 1 as soon as he steps out of his drop pod. Astorath and the Sanguinator are so cool to look at and paint it doesn't matter that I can't afford the points to play them. Last but not least, 10 DC in a LR with Chaplain and a thunder hammer is awesome! Drive up to the nearest enemy CC unit and watch them charge out with 40 attacks, rerolling to hit AND to wound. Ogryn, Termies, Bah.. or should that be BA!


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Did I forget to mention the Stormraven assault transport, which if rumours are correct will be released this summer alongside new Grey Knights models and codex? : )

I'm going to build a DoA list.

No vehicles of any kind whatsoever. Everything that can have access to a jump pack will.

Dollar wise it'll be fairly cheap to collect compared to buying crap ton of vehicles.

$60 for a 275pt LR or $35 for a 250+ pt. Sanguinary Guard squad? Hmmm.

It might not be the most effective list but the model count will be low (I'm estimating about 70 infantry at 2500), easy to transport (can get the cheaper battlefoam infantry trays, and it some ways it'd play similiar to daemons or dw (in that I would always DS the entire army in).

I've also come to love SHP's. Even in tac squads it makes the squads a tactical nightmare to deal with


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General Mayhem wrote:I like the new BA codex. I had a large BA army from way back before the PDF codex and I'm happy to have the new options and models. I think the gold armour looks great (if nipples and six pack are good enough for the classics like Romans who am I to complain?). I also like the angel wings (bit awkward to pack but then so are my Valkyries). I LOVE the librarian Dred, even if my magna grapple has failed to hit anything yet and he dies on turn 1 as soon as he steps out of his drop pod. Astorath and the Sanguinator are so cool to look at and paint it doesn't matter that I can't afford the points to play them. Last but not least, 10 DC in a LR with Chaplain and a thunder hammer is awesome! Drive up to the nearest enemy CC unit and watch them charge out with 40 attacks, rerolling to hit AND to wound. Ogryn, Termies, Bah.. or should that be BA!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did I forget to mention the Stormraven assault transport, which if rumours are correct will be released this summer alongside new Grey Knights models and codex? : )

I've heard Jan 2011 for GK's so don't count your eggs just yet.