I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

Because it's Grimdark.

The Eldar seek to purge man from their Mother Worlds, the Tau seek to beat everyone into submission in order to rule with as Silk(iron)fist, the DE kill or enslave anyone they can, Orks are Orks.. 'Nids are drivin by hunger. Every race has its own Xenocidical tendencies.

Because xenos are filthy corrupters of all humankind.

Because in a world where everything wants to kill you then its fairly safe to be prejudicial about well... everything

garret wrote:I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

It is sometimes difficult to give well founded rational reasons for extreme racism and genocide

Because said filth are xenos, enough said

The Imperium follows the philosophy that if something has the ability to kill you, better to kill it first. So if a xeno has the intelligence and technology to attack the Imperium they are to be exterminated. If they are mindless animals then they are ignored unless in the way, likely to be a threat in the future, or a resource.

Of course, being a threat doesn't mean they must be a big threat that should be responded to immediately. So they might not get several regiments of guardsmen and some marines flung at them on sight; rather, a moderate force to mop up when convenient. Although sometimes you have a situation like the Tau that managed to kick the backside of the guardsmen sent to mop them up at leisure... and the marines sent to supposedly bail the guard out.

Tau are a good example of why you need to exterminate all xenos on site. When they first met them they were still swinging clubs at each other. Imperium goes on a coffee break comes back and they got flying tanks with railguns! Imperium smacks itslef on the head and goes "D'oh!"

Kilkrazy wrote:Because it's Grimdark.

LOL. Despite what anyone says, this is the only valid answer.

candy.man wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Because it's Grimdark.

LOL. Despite what anyone says, this is the only valid answer.

That seems to be the answer for everything in 40k that has no proper answer.

The Imperium is an oppressive theocracy that tries to create a single overlapping culture across all of itself dedicated to the God Emperor of Mankind, who the Imperium remembers for his crusade that killed plenty of Xenos.

The reasons why the Imperium destroys Xenos are typically these.

1. They are afraid of the actually dangerous xenos. Those nids are pretty scary, hey, those other aliens must be pretty scary!
2. Fear of cultural integration. This is probably biggest against the Tau and peaceful xeno cultures; the Imperial faith objects to outside forces weakening it, especially when that faith is one of the things that keeps chaos away (In For the Emperor, Cain says at one point that he's worried that those who could be influenced by the Tau could also be open to influence from the ruinous powers).
3. Extreme prejudice. Consider that, in Nightbringer, Uriel is unwilling to think the Eldar might possibly have different conflicting groups, even with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, simply because they're all "filthy xenos." People are grown from the cradle indoctrinated by Imperial propaganda.
4. "The Emperor did it." Remember, a lot of the people in power happen to be fanatically devoted to the Emperor.

Is it a good idea to destroy all Xenos, even ones that actually do want to create peaceful trade relationships (AKA Not Eldar, Tau, Orks, Nids, Necrons)? On one hand, it can be quite beneficial to both groups (The use of Kroot mercenaries in some groups of Imperial Guard, for example). On the other, it might weaken the power of the Imperium as people recognize that the less oppressive alien cultures are a lot less scary-looking.

Because xenos tend to be any or all of the following: violent, manipulative, chaos-touched, warlike, want to eat you, and refuse to worship the Emperor.


By the way, the Imperium DOES have xeno protectorates, such as the Jokaero.

"NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!!! ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE!!!"

I rest my case, yet again..

In a more serious vein... Asking why the Empirum hates Xenos is like asking why Humans still have racial and tribal hates and fears.

Because Xenos are EIVIL .

Melissia wrote:Because xenos tend to be any or all of the following: violent, manipulative, chaos-touched, warlike, want to eat you, and refuse to worship the Emperor.


By the way, the Imperium DOES have xeno protectorates, such as the Jokaero.

The Imperium has a Jokaero protectorate? Crazy space-orangutangs

Yep. The Jokaero are under the protection of the Inquisition in specific and the Imperium in general because of their ability to produce such complex and insane technology as digital weapons.

Melissia wrote:Yep. The Jokaero are under the protection of the Inquisition in specific and the Imperium in general because of their ability to produce such complex and insane technology as digital weapons.

Does the Inquisition's hypocrisy know no bounds? I'm sure Jokaero have ships too....laden with monky bars.

It's not hypocrisy. The Inquisition protects the Imperium from threats within, threats without, and threats beyond-- the Jokaero are not a threat, but rather a boon. They aren't even sentient according to most definitions of the term.

garret wrote:I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

Why do humans hate/attack/oppress other cultures, religions,races then there own etc.?

Why did the colonials kill the "savages" of the places they subjugated?

etc., etc.

Humans are by nature xenophobic, violent and selfish.

Besides, some (rare) xeno races ARE under Imperial protection.

The answer to this is pretty simple. (At least I think it is.)

Most cultures seem to reach their zenith when they are at their most closed-minded and oppressive. (The British Empire, the Roman Empire, the list goes on.) As their culture goes into decline, they become more accepting and open minded towards new ideas, religions, cultural beliefs, etc. I'm not saying there is a cause and effect relationship here, but there is a definite trend towards this pattern.

The 40k universe just takes this idea to its logical extreme. The Imperium (at least the higher ups in charge of policy) understand this, and act accordingly. They know that the Imperium, as a whole, will suffer from exposure to alien cultures and ideas. They will experiment with mind-altering new forms of government, and threaten the stability of the Imperium. Instigated xenophobia is but one weapon they Imperium uses to preserve its existence. It also allows the administration to focus everyone on an external threat, which allows them to consolidate their own power base.

The policy makers within the Imperium don't want to see a fractured human society, with multiple different governments, independent stellar nations, and whatnot. Keeping everything under the umbrella protection of the Imperium ensures that the human race will not fall back into the Old Night again. It's part of the tragedy of the 40k universe: it isn't a good system, but there isn't any other option that's viable.

If you follow the fluff, the Imperium exists to promote the interests of humanity (not humans, humanity as a whole), and sees all xenos races as in conflict with humanity for the resources and space that both need to survive. Nuff said.

Melissia wrote:Because xenos tend to be any or all of the following: violent, manipulative, chaos-touched, warlike, want to eat you, And the Imperium doesn't want the competition.

Fixed it for you

@OP-It is a universe of war. The Imperium has Xenos and Ab-human allies, but only ones that are easily controlled or, if control slips, are easily destroyed.

Jimsolo wrote:Most cultures seem to reach their zenith when they are at their most closed-minded and oppressive. (The British Empire, the Roman Empire, the list goes on.) As their culture goes into decline, they become more accepting and open minded towards new ideas, religions, cultural beliefs, etc. I'm not saying there is a cause and effect relationship here, but there is a definite trend towards this pattern.

I noticed that too, kinda makes me not like where the U.S. is going.....


If I remember my fluff right, before the Great Crusade, many aliens had humans in slavery, which lead to resentment, and also because the alien technology was starting to replace human technology, and they don't want the people being corrupted to alien ways.

focusedfire wrote:Fixed it for you

Not really. As amusing as that sentence is, the Imperium is full of donkey-caves because you need to be one to survive in 40k.

OK, I confess.

That's right, I'M THE REASON why the Imperium Hates Xenos.

That's right, its my birthday, go focused go focused go focused go!


Seriously, 40K is a kill or be killed universe.



Edit spacing

The imperium hates xenos because they are human and therefore hate everything.

It's like how we are now. In the Uk, people (mostly those influenced by the papers) are always going 'moan moan, bitch, moan, dirty foreigners, bitch, moany moanington'

I am assuming it the same in the US, but with mexicans

S_P

Space_Potato wrote:The imperium hates xenos because they are human and therefore hate everything.

It's like how we are now. In the Uk, people (mostly those influenced by the papers) are always going 'moan moan, bitch, moan, dirty foreigners, bitch, moany moanington'

I am assuming it the same in the US, but with mexicans

S_P

We also Hate how much everyone else HATES us

Poor_Fething_Guardsman wrote:Because in a world where everything wants to kill you then its fairly safe to be prejudicial about well... everything

This is the best summary of the paranoid Imperium I've ever read...

I agree with the comparisons to our current situations. We kill the animals right now, so that we can expand our own empires. It's not really that they go out of their way to kill harmless xenos, it's probably more like they're in the way.
And yes, I'm aware we aren't as bad to animals and the environment as we used to be. We're still the worst race on Earth, everything else adapts to it's surroundings, whereas we force our surroundings to change for us.

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:I agree with the comparisons to our current situations. We kill the animals right now, so that we can expand our own empires. It's not really that they go out of their way to kill harmless xenos, it's probably more like they're in the way.
And yes, I'm aware we aren't as bad to animals and the environment as we used to be. We're still the worst race on Earth, everything else adapts to it's surroundings, whereas we force our surroundings to change for us.

Bit of a difference, though, between sentient xenos and animals.

And the xenos are hardly better (At least the stronger ones). There's either omnicidal robots, conquering fish, manipulative elves, insane and sadistic elves, violent greenies, or OMNOMNOMNOM.

Jimsolo wrote:The answer to this is pretty simple. (At least I think it is.)

Most cultures seem to reach their zenith when they are at their most closed-minded and oppressive. (The British Empire, the Roman Empire, the list goes on.) As their culture goes into decline, they become more accepting and open minded towards new ideas, religions, cultural beliefs, etc. I'm not saying there is a cause and effect relationship here, but there is a definite trend towards this pattern.

Not really; the fall of the Roman empire is associated with a culture that basically the same as the Imperiums': any thought of cultural and religious tolerance has been thrown out the window (and despite all the christian propaganda to the contrary, the Early Empire WAS a very religiously tolerant place, so long as you didnt cause trouble.) the Emperor became a divine figurehead (At one point the Emperor had been deified, but the 'Imperial cult' such as it was was never a replacement for the older established religions and cults; the Late Roman Empires interpretation was wrapped in a Christian context: that is, the Emperor was a vessel through which God himself acted, and the Emperors right to rule was bestowed by God himself over the world. It's this mind set that would lead to Popes in the West, and the same mentality continuing in the Eastern Empire for centuries.)

Romes might was built upon having it be advantageous to become a citizen, making it a relatively straightforward process to become a citizen, and having Roman culture be extremely adaptable to merging with locally conquered cultures to form a synthesis- This was helped by the fact that Romes most famous Romanization, that of the Celts was already the mostly closely related Ethnic and Linguistic group to the Ethnicties and languages native to the Italian peninsula. Despite that apparent culture differences, the Romans and Celts were more closely connected to each other then either was to the Greeks (who never 'Romanized' beyond adopting the name as a nationality), or the Germans (Who actually did Romanize quite well by the end of the Empire, and did so willingly - not because they had it forced down their throats.)

I'd say your thesis is way off- at least in regards to Rome. the British Empire is a different subject altogether - and trying to find commonalities between the two is actually rather hard.

40k = Australia of gaming. EVERYTHING can kill you.

Grimdark = rocks fall?

Forgive me, Carlo, I'm not a historian. I'm a lumberjack.

But any way you want to dress it up, the Romans did a fair bit of ass kicking. In point of fact, they did a fair bit of conquering. As did the Brits. And the Americans. And the...well, list any former or present dominant world power, and you will find a culture which A) stepped on their neighbors for their own gain, and B) were pretty darn unapologetic about it.

It's the way of the world. You wave a little white flag while wearing some love beads and trying to hand out flowers, and the militant jackbooted thug is going to gutterstomp you. The world in which we live is a world where real enemies exist, enemies that don't want peace with you. They want to tear down your civilization, take what resources you have, and put their own in place. The only way to protect yourself is to be stronger than them. And since tyrannical thugs aren't thoughtful enough to tattoo 'Tyrannical Thug' on their foreheads, you have to approach every new culture as if it were a potential threat. That doesn't mean you attack them religiously (and in 40k, the Imperium doesn't) but it does mean you assume they mean you harm until they prove otherwise.

It's a harsh fact of life, but a true one. The 40k universe just takes this fact to its logical extreme.

I think the Imperium has a rule where if the xenos are a threat, the exterminate them. If they appear to be useful and do not mean harm, then that fits into the "not a threat" category. That's how I see it.

Wrong thread mate. But hey, look at that. The Imperium hates Xenos...

garret wrote:I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

They hate xenos for the obvious reason that xenos want to control empires just as much as humans. The great crusade had to liberate 1000s of worlds from alien control. When the galaxy is full of alien species who are willing to kill humans then you will hate them.

Extrapolate the real world: people are capable of killing and hating each other for any number of reasons, now take away any human trait from the person you hate, making them an alien with high tech weapons and no compasion for humans.

Excellent points, Bluntman. De-humanization of your enemies is never easier than when they aren't humans!

Holy thread necro. This thread is two years old.

Partly because having an external threat (and intenral) you can keep people focused on is a good way to unify them for a given purpose, whether its justified or not. IT's also partly because there are alien races out to get humanity (either competing for territory, because they llike to eat/kill/experiment on humans, or whatever various reasons seem to crop up.) Some of that humanity brought on itself, and some of it is just because some alien races are outright threats period. There's not really going to be one, single clear answer because there's no single alien race or the way they approach humanity (or in how humanity approaches them.) and it can also differe in various parts/regions of the Imperium and at varying levels (rogue traders aren't going to react to aliens the same way a religious zealot would.)

Because a Xeno once said something about the Emperor's mother. :p

Because when humanity was down during the age of strife aliens preyed upon humanity for food, slaves, or just the pleasure of killing, now humanity have the power so they like to kill xenos whenever possible, though 40k may seem grimdark it was nothing compared to the age of strife.

In my eyes it's a very simple reason why the Imperium hates Xenos. Nothing unites humans quicker than hostility & conflict - tell group A that group B intends to kill them, defile their women & take their children as slaves & they will unite to stop group B from doing this. This may then extend to pre-empting group Bs attack by doing to group B what group A have been told will happen to them if they don't 'stop' group B first. Group B, caught unawares, unite to do to Group A what Group A did to Group B. Then Group C shows up. Group A tell Group C what Group B have done & Groups A & C unite to fight Group B. Group C then decides to attack Group A to prevent Group A from dominating. New generations of these groups are born and are instilled in the hatred the various groups have built up for each other and thus it carries on for generation after generation.

...ok, it sounded better in my head, but still it's a -really- easy way to unite people & get them to do what you want. Want examples of this? Look at pretty much any war in our history prior to the advent of easily accessed global communication (internet, smart phones, satellite phones). There you will find prejudice & hatred being reasons why the common person fought - which is why you still have 'built-in' prejudice against certain nationalities. For example, a cracking example I think in Europe, France vs. England. France & England were at war, on and off, for hundreds of years and in both nationalities a hatred was forged against t'other. Ask an Englishman even now what he thinks of the French & there is still a good chance that it will be derogatory (common themes being 'frogs', 'toads' & 'snails'). I'm sure that French people answer in equal terms when asked about the English.

Thus it's quite obvious why, in a hostile universe with an Empire spanning a million planets, that hostility to outsiders is the common factor that unites the Imperium.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:In my eyes it's a very simple reason why the Imperium hates Xenos. Nothing unites humans quicker than hostility & conflict - tell group A that group B intends to kill them, defile their women & take their children as slaves & they will unite to stop group B from doing this. This may then extend to pre-empting group Bs attack by doing to group B what group A have been told will happen to them if they don't 'stop' group B first. Group B, caught unawares, unite to do to Group A what Group A did to Group B. Then Group C shows up. Group A tell Group C what Group B have done & Groups A & C unite to fight Group B. Group C then decides to attack Group A to prevent Group A from dominating. New generations of these groups are born and are instilled in the hatred the various groups have built up for each other and thus it carries on for generation after generation.

...ok, it sounded better in my head, but still it's a -really- easy way to unite people & get them to do what you want. Want examples of this? Look at pretty much any war in our history prior to the advent of easily accessed global communication (internet, smart phones, satellite phones). There you will find prejudice & hatred being reasons why the common person fought - which is why you still have 'built-in' prejudice against certain nationalities. For example, a cracking example I think in Europe, France vs. England. France & England were at war, on and off, for hundreds of years and in both nationalities a hatred was forged against t'other. Ask an Englishman even now what he thinks of the French & there is still a good chance that it will be derogatory (common themes being 'frogs', 'toads' & 'snails'). I'm sure that French people answer in equal terms when asked about the English.

Thus it's quite obvious why, in a hostile universe with an Empire spanning a million planets, that hostility to outsiders is the common factor that unites the Imperium.

I partially agree with your point. Yes their common foe unites them, but think about their foes. The Orks will feth up everything, and often slaughter the local populations. The Dark Eldar will make you wish you were dead. The Tau are kinda mixed, yes if you agree with them they will be nice to you. If not they still will slaughter you like everyone else. Nids will eat you. I'm not sure what the Necrons would do. Plus all of the minor xeno races which would kill you.

Not many of them seem too nice (the Tau being a partial exception )

That's rather secondary to the point that it's about uniting humanity to fight those gribbly nasty things. Without the unification, as far as that goes, of the Imperium then humanity would splinter and fall away, the shards of the Imperium easily gobbled up by the other dominant forces within the galaxy. Unifying people isn't a mere case of saying "Well, we're all in this together you know...". It's about playing on emotions & fears and there truly is no more powerful human emotion than hate. Through hate you can get humans to do almost anything so long as they feel they are venting that hatred, even if they actually are not.

(All in my opinion & interpretation of course)

At this point in the time-line, 10,000 years after the ascension of the God-Emperor, it is quite a common belief amongst the citizenry (and rather a common teaching of the Ecclesiarchy) that the God-Emperor of Mankind fashioned Man in His own image.

The Xenos are, at best, pale mockeries or corruptions of the purity of the human form, and must thusly be destroyed for this blasphemy.

Because they are all wishing to exploit, kill and steal form humanity.
Get them before they can get us.

Yori wrote:Because they are all wishing to exploit, kill and steal form humanity.
Get them before they can get us.

That's pretty much it. And never forget the Age of Strife, and the 10,000 year history post-Heresy of xenos species preying on humanity. With that kind of history, it's no wonder the Imperium has a dead-set 'no xenos tolerance' policy galaxy-wide. And you dont even have to think about the war-like orks, mindless Tyranids, perfidious Eldar or expansionist Tau. There's plenty of other xenos species that has been mentioned in the fluff that are aggressive and seek to harm the Imperium, such as the barghesi, and the Slaugth. Of course, most of those species have already been wiped out either during the Great Crusade, or through various campaigns and purges.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:For example, a cracking example I think in Europe, France vs. England. France & England were at war, on and off, for hundreds of years and in both nationalities a hatred was forged against t'other. Ask an Englishman even now what he thinks of the French & there is still a good chance that it will be derogatory (common themes being 'frogs', 'toads' & 'snails'). I'm sure that French people answer in equal terms when asked about the English.

Except not really, because the relationship between France and England constantly changed over the last millennium, the last time we fought against them was almost two hundred years ago, and they've been nothing but allies for the last century. If you want a better example, try Catholics vs Protestants & the English in Northern Ireland.

garret wrote:I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

In-universe, the explanation is that the Imperial Creed states that it is mankind's destiny to rule the galaxy, and mankind's alone.

Out-of-universe, because grimdark, to invite comparisons with the worst excesses of imperialists throughout human history, and to make the setting distinct from things like Star Trek where everybody gets on, and even Klingons have feelings, etc.

Let's try this from another angle.

Your average Imperial citizen living upon a world that hasn't been attacked by xenos, or even seen a xenos, for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. They know nothing about the Heresy except for myths & the stories they were told by their parents to make sure they behaved. The Age of Strife is something they have no idea about, happenings in the galaxy in the past millennia are something they are completely ignorant of, but they might know a little about the bit of the planet they live on and its history. So where are they getting this instinctual hatred for something they don't know about, don't know the names of & don't feel threatened by*?

Creating hate amongst people is all about making them fear what 'it' can do to them, how 'it' can do it to them, what 'it' would do to them. If your only source of information is an Ecclesiarchy priest, as in c13 Europe, telling you that what is out there will kill you, destroy your home, defile your women & enslave your children and you've been told that every day of your life as your parents were and their parents were and their parents were and their parents... you're not going to have much doubt about what you're being told are you? It's indoctrination, creating fear of a threat, that in the case of 40k is damned true because a lot of the xenos out there will obliterate humans, but your average Imperial citizen doesn't know that. That mixture of fear & hatred brings people together & keeps the Imperium intact, running & ready to face threats. What the xenos will & will not do is beside the point, both the hostile & peaceful xenos, it's about the indoctrination of humanity in fear & hatred so that they will violently resist if xenos do ever invade their home.

*Well if a xenos hasn't been seen for hundreds of years you wouldn't feel threatened by them would you? S'not going to happen in your life if it didn't happen in your parents & grandparents, so why worry?

Sturmtruppen wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:For example, a cracking example I think in Europe, France vs. England. France & England were at war, on and off, for hundreds of years and in both nationalities a hatred was forged against t'other. Ask an Englishman even now what he thinks of the French & there is still a good chance that it will be derogatory (common themes being 'frogs', 'toads' & 'snails'). I'm sure that French people answer in equal terms when asked about the English.

Except not really, because the relationship between France and England constantly changed over the last millennium, the last time we fought against them was almost two hundred years ago, and they've been nothing but allies for the last century. If you want a better example, try Catholics vs Protestants & the English in Northern Ireland.

I'd hardly say fighting from c11-c19 doesn't count - 800 years of various conflicts, in my mind, certainly counts. That's a damned long time you know. It's ingrained, even if it is not so serious now as it used to be, that we make derogatory jokes about the French because they're the French & we've always fought them. What about the jokes about "One French rifle for sale. Never fired, only dropped once"? or French tanks only having reverse gears? Yes we have the same jokes for the Italians (unfairly in the case of their navy but that's a different case), but it's instinctive to tell them about the French.
There are, across the world, hundreds of examples of this, of hatreds deeply ingrained through centuries of conflict over various things that no matter where you live in the world there will be examples you can look at. African tribes who waged war on each other continually because it was the other tribe & that's what they always did. As you said, Catholics vs Protestants, two religions with similar beliefs beating the hells out of each other to prove whose religion was right (30 Years War, for example).

Because Xenos are lesser races, and deserves notting more than death and extermination by any means necesary

Well its really for 3 reasons

1. Most Xenos attack the Imps

2. The Imps are racist

3. Because they think everyone except for humans are unworthy to live (Kind of like the Hitler-Hate-Jews stuff)

There's also two other perspectives from which you can answer this question:

First, given that the 40K universe is designed for a particular goal (i.e., a wargame), the writers of that background need to construct a narrative where war is a constant presence. You can't have the background needed for the game to function unless violent, armed conflicts between forces are the norm, rather than an exception. From this perspective, asking why the Imperium hates xenos races is rather like asking "How did Luke survive his childhood on Tattooine?" It's a given of the narrative.

The writers just need to supply you with enough information so that it's not terribly implausible to accept.



Sadly, another reason why the Imperium is so xenophobic is based in actual human psychology. To a greater or lesser extent, we all identify more with those who resemble us, or are in close proximity to us, and less with those who look different or live farther away. I'm not claiming that "everyone is a closet racist" or anything, but psychological biases towards "in-group" selection are pretty well established. Given that we, as a species, react differently to a drought, famine, or natural disaster in a different country than in our own backyard, it's not too implausible that humans would react rather differently to other intelligent species with which we share no evolutionary history.

Even given the hints of common creation in the Xenology book, we share more genetic similarities, biological history, and cultural history with CABBAGE than we do with Orks or Tau. We literally have more in common with MOSQUITOES than any alien species. Despite any high-minded ideals or rhetoric about understanding, it's not too hard to imagine that we would have strongly negative, prejudicial feelings towards aliens. I'd like to believe that we would overcome those tendencies, but I think that would be unlikely at best.

Da Butcha wrote:we share more genetic similarities, biological history, and cultural history with CABBAGE than we do with Orks or Tau.

And be proud of it son, VENERATE THY CABBAGE!!! It is His holy will.

Why kill the Xeno?
It is better to ask "why not"?

in real life , the only empire that folled other path ( "like other people" staff) is the Great Alexander. he mixed his people whith forein. after his dead all the Empire splited.
a wise reason why not follow that if you want to build an Empire

Anshal wrote:Because said filth are xenos, enough said

This...now PURGE THEM.

Sentient Xenos have a presence in the warp. The Emperor who Protects knew this during his Great Reconquest. Whilst stifling Humanities presence in the Warp, with the Imperial Truth, the Emperor sought to stop the energy that feeds the denizens of the Warp. With a calm Warp Humanity would truly be in a position to become a race of great science and scholarship, living up to the potential it possesses.
Due to the forces that shall not be named, his vision has been corrupted by the very forces he sought to destroy.
The Imperium, knowing of the Emperors Teachings, but not his meaning, continue to extinguish the psychic flame that is Xenos.

Many of the fundamental concepts of the grimdark gothic background of 40K are lifted straight out of a 2000AD comic called Nemesis the Warlock.

It featured an extremely xenophobic terran culture as the antagonists, ruled by an immortal emperor that relied on an arcane machine to keep him 'alive', convoluted gothic architecture and techno-arcana, hive worlds, warriors called terminators that shout things like "Cleanse and Purify" while scouring the galaxy of aliens, walking bipedal multi-story war machines, inquisitors, space travel, it goes on and on and on.

One of the greatest travesties in the history of gaming is that no-one associated with GW has admitted Nemesis the Warlock was a primary source- at least to my knowledge. Even though we know with 100% certainly they were serious fans of the 2000AD mag. Seriously, read the series. It's astonishing and the parallels are mind-blowing.

In short, the Imperium in 40K is xenophobic because the culture it is modeled after (the humans of Termight, i.e. Earth) is xenophobic.

From my understanding of it the empra said to get rid of them all intending to later clarify which ones where bad since most of the crusade was freeing humans from xenos. Then he got stuck in the throne and never said otherwise. Just like landraiders.

Because pretty much all xenos met are donkey-caves, chaos worshipers, cannot coexist with humans, or would make useless allies. Eldar and Dark Eldar are donkey-caves, Necrons are donkey-caves, the Laer worshiped Slaanesh, the Hrud cause people to age faster, and the Tau are too naive to be useful.

Because they arn't humans....

The key phrase is "There is only War" not "There is mostly war with friendly relations with aliens who may or may not betray you"

Again its safer for the Imperium (In their view) to only ally with Xenos like Tau or Eldar if absolutely necessary

Because that nice gentlmen with a bolt gun and a hat told me to kill them.

and that xeno over there said something about my mother... plus its fun to kill them.

Nothing unites a populace like a common enemy.

Mankind wants to rule the galaxy. The Xenos don't want them to.

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, that's reason enough to try to kill everyone.

 garret wrote:
I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

I believe the Imperium hates Xenos because of a massive stereotype that all xeno seek the destruction or enslavement of mankind. The Great Crusade freed countless worlds from Xeno races who ruled the human populace, so began the image of vile aliens that treated humans liked cattle and used them as so. Another event was when the Eldar Farseer Ulthran foresaw the Horus Heresy and tried to warn the Emperor. The Emperor sent Fulgrim as an envoy after Ulthran called for a meeting. But Fulgrim was already under the influence of Chaos and attacked Ulthran, later claiming the Eldar were trying to draw the Emperor out and kill him, but did not expect Fulgrim so they tried to kill him instead. So the Eldar were labeled sneaky, lying,schemers( which they are). Humanity encountered far more hostile Xenos races than peaceful ones during the Great Crusade, so they are always met with caution. Caution turned into hatred after the Imperial Cult popped up, which was originally founded on (snicker) hope,peace and forgiveness by the first Imperial Saint, Euhrati Keeler, but got twisted and promoted a sort of Manifest destiny within the Cult, where it promoted mankinds divinity and that it was Humankinds destiny to rule the stars. Over time, multiple conflicts with the xenos bred a fear and hatred of anything non human.

The Imperium hates the Tau, because they have been portrayed as the Xeno Overlords of the Old night, before the Great Crusade. Living as chained hounds. The Eldar, I already explained but for those imperial citizens that know about xeno's, most dont know the difference between them and the Dark Eldar, so horror stories of the Dark Eldar take image in most peoples minds. Orks and nids are obvious. Ditto for Necrons. Taking Xenophobia to a whole nother level.

In simplest terms, the Emperor was a raging human supremacist who believed aliens were inferior life forms unworthy of existence.

The imperium literally hunts down peaceful harmless Xenos like this: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Diasporex without mercy.

In this case a co-existing human and Xenos space faring mining civilization.

I would love to see the human racist supremacist trolls on this forum defending the imperium on why the Imperium needs to exterminate races like this instead of just ignoring them since they pose little to no threat.

Because I mean what happened to that Xenos-Human race is literally like the extermination of the Jews and the definition of evil.

Something interesting I have noticed is that even as far back as the great crusades, the Eldar have sometimes gotten a pass, not always, but the conflict has usually been of the Eldar's making, because they are protecting a webway portal, a warp portal, some extremely dangerous, chaos in origin artefact. Maiden worlds seem to be the main instance when it is the Imperium initiate the conflict, and that is only if the Eldar are there, if not, the Eldar initiate by attacking the Imperial forces there.

Do we know why the Eldar seem to get this free pass, yet others (like the Tau) don't?

icn1982 wrote:
Something interesting I have noticed is that even as far back as the great crusades, the Eldar have sometimes gotten a pass, not always, but the conflict has usually been of the Eldar's making, because they are protecting a webway portal, a warp portal, some extremely dangerous, chaos in origin artefact. Maiden worlds seem to be the main instance when it is the Imperium initiate the conflict, and that is only if the Eldar are there, if not, the Eldar initiate by attacking the Imperial forces there.

Do we know why the Eldar seem to get this free pass, yet others (like the Tau) don't?

Eldar are both more useful alive and more difficult to kill.

pm713 wrote:

icn1982 wrote:
Something interesting I have noticed is that even as far back as the great crusades, the Eldar have sometimes gotten a pass, not always, but the conflict has usually been of the Eldar's making, because they are protecting a webway portal, a warp portal, some extremely dangerous, chaos in origin artefact. Maiden worlds seem to be the main instance when it is the Imperium initiate the conflict, and that is only if the Eldar are there, if not, the Eldar initiate by attacking the Imperial forces there.

Do we know why the Eldar seem to get this free pass, yet others (like the Tau) don't?

Eldar are both more useful alive and more difficult to kill.

I'd mostly agree with the 'too difficult to kill' side of things. It's why the Tau aren't the subject of a crusade at the moment: the Imperium has bigger fish to fry. They were much smaller when the Imperium made first contact, but proved themselves to be more trouble than they were worth given that there were Tyranids munching their way through Ultramar during the crusade.

Not sure about the more useful alive thing. I think that the times you hear about Eldar assisting the Imperium are the exception rather than the rule. The majority of Eldar interaction with the Imperium is through subtle manipulation of the strands of fate to benefit their own kind. That's where the seemingly capricious nature of the Eldar comes from. The same craftworld will simultaneously assist the Imperium in one sector, and annihilate a helpless colony in another, all because the chain of events they put into motion will benefit them in the future.

"Trust not in their appearance, for the Eldar are as alien to good, honest men as the vile Tyranids and savage Orks. There is no understanding them for there is nothing to understand - they are a random force in the universe." - Imperial Commander Abriel Hume, Codex Eldar 4th ed.

I feel that particular quote sums up the opinion of the majority of Imperial Brass. It's only really people with access to a lot more information about the Great Enemy, like Inquisitors, that see the Eldar as 'on their side'. Even then, the Eldar are only really on their own side, it just so happens that in this particular conflict their goals are mutually beneficial.

The brutality and ignorance of mankind appalls the Eldar, whilst the aloof arrogance of the Eldar race has never fostered the trust of the Adeptus of Earth.

p. 5, 2nd edition Eldar Codex

That sums up relations and why there is not more open communication and trust. The Eldar don't trust humans to handle the truth (and they are at times right) while the behavior of the Eldar is seen as arrogant and self-serving. The history of their interactions colors any future interactions between them.

The admittedly cliche plot of the Dawn of War game is a stereotypical example of what happens when the Eldar trying being truthful and direct with humans in 40K:

Space Marine stop the Eldar from carrying out their plans.

Eldar: Don't mess with this thing. It's dangerous.

Space Marine: How dare you tell us not to mess with this! Arrogant alien! Well I'll show him... *messes with the artifact and a daemon gets released* Deceitful Eldar! You tricked me!

Facepalming Eldar: Oh FFS!

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

pm713 wrote:

icn1982 wrote:
Something interesting I have noticed is that even as far back as the great crusades, the Eldar have sometimes gotten a pass, not always, but the conflict has usually been of the Eldar's making, because they are protecting a webway portal, a warp portal, some extremely dangerous, chaos in origin artefact. Maiden worlds seem to be the main instance when it is the Imperium initiate the conflict, and that is only if the Eldar are there, if not, the Eldar initiate by attacking the Imperial forces there.

Do we know why the Eldar seem to get this free pass, yet others (like the Tau) don't?

Eldar are both more useful alive and more difficult to kill.

I'd mostly agree with the 'too difficult to kill' side of things. It's why the Tau aren't the subject of a crusade at the moment: the Imperium has bigger fish to fry. They were much smaller when the Imperium made first contact, but proved themselves to be more trouble than they were worth given that there were Tyranids munching their way through Ultramar during the crusade.

Not sure about the more useful alive thing. I think that the times you hear about Eldar assisting the Imperium are the exception rather than the rule. The majority of Eldar interaction with the Imperium is through subtle manipulation of the strands of fate to benefit their own kind. That's where the seemingly capricious nature of the Eldar comes from. The same craftworld will simultaneously assist the Imperium in one sector, and annihilate a helpless colony in another, all because the chain of events they put into motion will benefit them in the future.

"Trust not in their appearance, for the Eldar are as alien to good, honest men as the vile Tyranids and savage Orks. There is no understanding them for there is nothing to understand - they are a random force in the universe." - Imperial Commander Abriel Hume, Codex Eldar 4th ed.

I feel that particular quote sums up the opinion of the majority of Imperial Brass. It's only really people with access to a lot more information about the Great Enemy, like Inquisitors, that see the Eldar as 'on their side'. Even then, the Eldar are only really on their own side, it just so happens that in this particular conflict their goals are mutually beneficial.

Being useful once in a while particularly against big Chaos invasions is still way better than what Tau do.

pm713 wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

pm713 wrote:

icn1982 wrote:
Something interesting I have noticed is that even as far back as the great crusades, the Eldar have sometimes gotten a pass, not always, but the conflict has usually been of the Eldar's making, because they are protecting a webway portal, a warp portal, some extremely dangerous, chaos in origin artefact. Maiden worlds seem to be the main instance when it is the Imperium initiate the conflict, and that is only if the Eldar are there, if not, the Eldar initiate by attacking the Imperial forces there.

Do we know why the Eldar seem to get this free pass, yet others (like the Tau) don't?

Eldar are both more useful alive and more difficult to kill.

I'd mostly agree with the 'too difficult to kill' side of things. It's why the Tau aren't the subject of a crusade at the moment: the Imperium has bigger fish to fry. They were much smaller when the Imperium made first contact, but proved themselves to be more trouble than they were worth given that there were Tyranids munching their way through Ultramar during the crusade.

Not sure about the more useful alive thing. I think that the times you hear about Eldar assisting the Imperium are the exception rather than the rule. The majority of Eldar interaction with the Imperium is through subtle manipulation of the strands of fate to benefit their own kind. That's where the seemingly capricious nature of the Eldar comes from. The same craftworld will simultaneously assist the Imperium in one sector, and annihilate a helpless colony in another, all because the chain of events they put into motion will benefit them in the future.

"Trust not in their appearance, for the Eldar are as alien to good, honest men as the vile Tyranids and savage Orks. There is no understanding them for there is nothing to understand - they are a random force in the universe." - Imperial Commander Abriel Hume, Codex Eldar 4th ed.

I feel that particular quote sums up the opinion of the majority of Imperial Brass. It's only really people with access to a lot more information about the Great Enemy, like Inquisitors, that see the Eldar as 'on their side'. Even then, the Eldar are only really on their own side, it just so happens that in this particular conflict their goals are mutually beneficial.

Being useful once in a while particularly against big Chaos invasions is still way better than what Tau do.

Hey! The Tau are doing a sterling job being a meatshield against Hive Fleet Kraken

In all honesty, I would do the same in such a man-eating universe. Everything's out to kill you, and there's not really anyone (other than other humans) who will care about you. They're enemies and have been for thousands of years, some of them, and true, some xeno races aren't too awful, but.... The Russians and Americans are basically just different countries who seek to look after themselves, yet they hate each other. Why? Different views, pretty much, and "being the best is everything". It's the same in W40k, where EVERYONE wants to be the best... and EVERYONE is very, very different and has different views, especially because they're completely different races and everything's different about them.

Plus it's kinda bred into humans that aliens are evil and bad, especially since they've gone through millennia of war with them it kinda reinforces that belief.

Its a general theme in a lot of classical Sifi novels such as The Mote in God's Eye.

The issue isn't just xenos species, grox are ok remember. It is xenos species with expansion habits or at leas a habit of defending their planets.
If the IoM did not eradicate those xenos species they would soon be locked in and unable to expand, speeding up the collapse of the empire.

Like someone said earlier, the Tau are the perfect example of why all Xenos should be purged at the earliest opportunity. Give them a chance to live past the throwing rocks level and you have Riptides and Ta'Unar all up in your face and helpless humans being enslaved to their wicked philosophies.

 blood ravens addiction wrote:
In all honesty, I would do the same in such a man-eating universe. Everything's out to kill you, and there's not really anyone (other than other humans) who will care about you. They're enemies and have been for thousands of years, some of them, and true, some xeno races aren't too awful, but.... The Russians and Americans are basically just different countries who seek to look after themselves, yet they hate each other. Why? Different views, pretty much, and "being the best is everything". It's the same in W40k, where EVERYONE wants to be the best... and EVERYONE is very, very different and has different views, especially because they're completely different races and everything's different about them.

Plus it's kinda bred into humans that aliens are evil and bad, especially since they've gone through millennia of war with them it kinda reinforces that belief.

Find some Aussies, Africans and South Americans to agree that everything that might kill you needs to be eliminated and you'd really have a case with this.

Fascism doesn't work without some random group of people you blame for everything evil and use as excuse to keep your dictatorship as ruthless as it is. With the imperium it's a bit more complicated as it doesn't want people to know about the real enemy (Chaos). Everywhere in the imperium there's some alien close by that you can use as justification for oppression.

F4LL3NWarrior, this thread is very old. Any thread more than a few months old is considered too old to dig up from the grave, and the moderators dislike when you do so. Start a new thread if you feel you still wish to discuss the subject.

 Dr Mathias wrote:
Many of the fundamental concepts of the grimdark gothic background of 40K are lifted straight out of a 2000AD comic called Nemesis the Warlock.

It featured an extremely xenophobic terran culture as the antagonists, ruled by an immortal emperor that relied on an arcane machine to keep him 'alive', convoluted gothic architecture and techno-arcana, hive worlds, warriors called terminators that shout things like "Cleanse and Purify" while scouring the galaxy of aliens, walking bipedal multi-story war machines, inquisitors, space travel, it goes on and on and on.

One of the greatest travesties in the history of gaming is that no-one associated with GW has admitted Nemesis the Warlock was a primary source- at least to my knowledge. Even though we know with 100% certainly they were serious fans of the 2000AD mag. Seriously, read the series. It's astonishing and the parallels are mind-blowing.

In short, the Imperium in 40K is xenophobic because the culture it is modeled after (the humans of Termight, i.e. Earth) is xenophobic.

I agree, Anyone who has read 2000AD will see the obvious homages that GW took from it ...
Since GW DID have licenses to do 2000AD stuff back in the day (Dredd, Rogue Trooper, etc).

But it's only ONE of the sources they ripped stuff from. There's equal parts Dune and Foundation in the human imperium.

 chromedog wrote:


But it's only ONE of the sources they ripped stuff from. There's equal parts Dune and Foundation in the human imperium.

You're correct, Dune was another massive influence. I'll have to check out Foundation- what is that?

DorianGray wrote:
The imperium literally hunts down peaceful harmless Xenos like this: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Diasporex without mercy.

In this case a co-existing human and Xenos space faring mining civilization.

I would love to see the human racist supremacist trolls on this forum defending the imperium on why the Imperium needs to exterminate races like this instead of just ignoring them since they pose little to no threat.

Because I mean what happened to that Xenos-Human race is literally like the extermination of the Jews and the definition of evil.

Well, I mean, my fanfiction army is made up of xenos and humans who ended up having no problem with these particular xenos. So when they learned what the Imperium was, they, uh, like, left. In space ships. And they went beyond the reach of the Astronomican, and kept going quite a ways. Then they settled down and rebuilt their civilization somewhere the Imperium couldn't reach them. Because the sane thing to do when you have a spacefaring civilization that is neighbours with xenophobes. You move away from them. Like, don't even think about beating them, just, like, go live somewhere else. You can travel to other star systems, you can just go anywhere that you're willing to spend the time traveling to.

You can count only your own species. Even in Star Trek Kirk says in season 2: "Give me your hand. Your hand. (she does) Now feel that. Human flesh against human flesh. We're the same. We share the same history, the same heritage, the same lives. We're tied together beyond any untying. Man or woman, it makes no difference. We're human. We couldn't escape from each other even if we wanted to. That's how you do it, Lieutenant. By remembering who and what you are. A bit of flesh and blood afloat in a universe without end. The only thing that's truly yours is the rest of humanity. That's where our duty lies. Do you understand me?"

Very true although that sounds like Kirk trying to pick someone up tbh

Fairly certain all the OG Trek scripts were written by one of Kirk's mates...

 Pouncey wrote:


Well, I mean, my fanfiction army is made up of xenos and humans who ended up having no problem with these particular xenos. So when they learned what the Imperium was, they, uh, like, left. In space ships. And they went beyond the reach of the Astronomican, and kept going quite a ways. Then they settled down and rebuilt their civilization somewhere the Imperium couldn't reach them. Because the sane thing to do when you have a spacefaring civilization that is neighbours with xenophobes. You move away from them. Like, don't even think about beating them, just, like, go live somewhere else. You can travel to other star systems, you can just go anywhere that you're willing to spend the time traveling to.

One doesn't always have the luxury of that choice. The Diasporex, for example, were forced to remain within certain bounds because they depended on reactors around stars in that area to power their life-necessary systems. To attempt to leave would have seen them all die.

They desired to be left alone, in peace, because they posed no threat to anyone. The Imperium killed all of them. You can't always just pick up and go. The fact is that, in 40k, no-one is in a worse position than minor Xenos factions. They are all doomed to die the moment the Orks, Imperium, Tyranids or Dark Eldar (eternal torment in this case) find them. Any minor Xenos' factions statistical best chance of survival is encountering the Farsight enclaves, Craftworld Eldar (if not on a Maiden World or somehow useful to the Eldar dead) or the Tau Empire (in that order). Any other option is at best slavery (Some Necron) or worse (Every other faction).

In 40k the Imperium controls most of the galaxy and has already rendered extinct dozens, if not hundreds, of alien species for not being human. Simply fleeing clearly isn't an option in many cases, which considering the nature of space travel within the setting isn't a surprise. A culture lacking Warp travel is too slow to escape the Imperium. The original answer 'cause its Grimdark' is still the only one which really I'd agree with, although I become more and more disheartened with time that something I considered satirically and purposefully portrayed as negative is being embraced as positive inspiration for real life motivation.

 Anemone wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


Well, I mean, my fanfiction army is made up of xenos and humans who ended up having no problem with these particular xenos. So when they learned what the Imperium was, they, uh, like, left. In space ships. And they went beyond the reach of the Astronomican, and kept going quite a ways. Then they settled down and rebuilt their civilization somewhere the Imperium couldn't reach them. Because the sane thing to do when you have a spacefaring civilization that is neighbours with xenophobes. You move away from them. Like, don't even think about beating them, just, like, go live somewhere else. You can travel to other star systems, you can just go anywhere that you're willing to spend the time traveling to.

One doesn't always have the luxury of that choice. The Diasporex, for example, were forced to remain within certain bounds because they depended on reactors around stars in that area to power their life-necessary systems. To attempt to leave would have seen them all die.

They desired to be left alone, in peace, because they posed no threat to anyone. The Imperium killed all of them. You can't always just pick up and go. The fact is that, in 40k, no-one is in a worse position than minor Xenos factions. They are all doomed to die the moment the Orks, Imperium, Tyranids or Dark Eldar (eternal torment in this case) find them. Any minor Xenos' factions statistical best chance of survival is encountering the Farsight enclaves, Craftworld Eldar (if not on a Maiden World or somehow useful to the Eldar dead) or the Tau Empire (in that order). Any other option is at best slavery (Some Necron) or worse (Every other faction).

In 40k the Imperium controls most of the galaxy and has already rendered extinct dozens, if not hundreds, of alien species for not being human. Simply fleeing clearly isn't an option in many cases, which considering the nature of space travel within the setting isn't a surprise. A culture lacking Warp travel is too slow to escape the Imperium. The original answer 'cause its Grimdark' is still the only one which really I'd agree with, although I become more and more disheartened with time that something I considered satirically and purposefully portrayed as negative is being embraced as positive inspiration for real life motivation.

I wish I could put longer text into sigs...

Even the more positive options (Eldar and Tau) are probably pretty ropey at best. With the Tau there's a significant chance you'll end up enslaved anyway (Vespid), or forcibly coerced into joining 'The Greater Good'. With the Eldar, even if you're not on a Maiden World they'll probably just ignore you (not that bad comparatively).

Perhaps the only reason the Farsight Enclaves are any good is probably because they're a 'minor xenos' faction themselves, and could do with the extra muscle to protect themselves.

I suppose the other way to survive is to be bloody scary yourselves (see Bhargesi)...

 garret wrote:
I can understand chaos and tyranids and any army trying to kill ya. But why kill xenos who have nothing. Do they kill only sentient xenos or are animals killed as well.

During the height on Mankind's power during the last half of the Dark Age of Technology, the threat of xenos was considered "trivial" and kept in check. But when Man's ancient Federation came crashing down with the advent of the Age of Strife, it was open season on Humanity's now isolated worlds. Even the Sol System suffered from xenos adventurism. This little fact didn't escape the Emperor's notice. Hence, the "better safe than sorry" policy of the Imperium. Mankind had a manifest destiny of sorts, and no xenos could be allowed to threaten that destiny to rule the stars. That attitude still exist in the 41st Millennium, with an extra helping of Human supremacy heaped on for good measure.


In short, xenos can't be trusted and are fit only for the business end of a lasgun.