Beetween themselves and their armour?

Nothing, underpants, bodygloves?

Cannot recall this being in any official release or novel.

Hmm I think you have to go back to the RT days for that.

Feth and gakk are SM swear words
even I know that

in one bl books salamander has bodyglove under his armor

Purity seals of course! Sorta like a man-kini....only more zealous...

I doubt they wear anything other than their power armor. And in fact, their power armor is described as so difficult to get out of they rarely remove it anyway.

Mistress of minis wrote:Purity seals of course! Sorta like a man-kini....only more zealous...

...that is getting sigged XD

Melissia wrote:I doubt they wear anything other than their power armor. And in fact, their power armor is described as so difficult to get out of they rarely remove it anyway.

Hmm so they would sleep, eat, what about going to the restroom .

They.. remove the groin-piece thingy when going to the restroom? *shrug*

Nope, the suit collects waste and recycles it into a tasteless grey paste which they then eat.

Melissia wrote:Nope, the suit collects waste and recycles it into a tasteless grey paste which they then eat.

So, no Mr Coffee magic turning pee into water huh?

They would maybe wear robes, I know would but really it how the cpather works.

Wife beaters.

they wear a body glove for comfort.

when not wearing PA they normally go with robes or tunics.

a SM can wear his armour on a near permanant basis, but they do remove it when possable. they have to put on a special cream to prevent hair growth, it gets uncomfortable. (Brotherhood of the Snake IIRC)

Grey Templar wrote:they wear a body glove for comfort.

when not wearing PA they normally go with robes or tunics.

a SM can wear his armour on a near permanant basis, but they do remove it when possable. they have to put on a special cream to prevent hair growth, it gets uncomfortable. (Brotherhood of the Snake IIRC)

So that's why all the guys without helmets are bald!

In the HH series it talks about loken and torgadon wearing combat fatigues.

Grey Templar wrote:they wear a body glove for comfort.

when not wearing PA they normally go with robes or tunics.

a SM can wear his armour on a near permanant basis, but they do remove it when possable. they have to put on a special cream to prevent hair growth, it gets uncomfortable. (Brotherhood of the Snake IIRC)

Yup, thats what I read too. The DA Interrogator-Chaplain in one of the newer Novels runs around in a knid of burnusi while not on a mission and even rides around on a combat bike in that get up (probably leading to sights, man is not meant to experience...shudder).
A Squad of Chaos Marines in one of the newer Guard Novels even hang around oiled up and wearing just loinclothes most of the time... yeah, I know...shock and awe probably

I remeber reading that they wear robes of some sort.

except Space Wolfs.

they go commando

helgrenze wrote:Hmm I think you have to go back to the RT days for that.

Are we talking about Black Carapace? Or is this something totally different.

Okay, well this picture makes it seem like they just pretty much put the armor on and that's that.

Hah, so they wear leotards!

Melissia wrote:Hah, so they wear leotards!

That is what it sounds like. super human leotards!

I read that they wear bodygloves underneath their armor. I can't remember which novel though. I imagined it as a thin material like in templeorks avatar pic, but with a space marine under the clothes and not a, you know, a woman.

What do Space Marines wear in bed?

Tightey-whiteys.

Kilkrazy wrote:What do Space Marines wear in bed?

Please let it be super human feetie pajamas.

No no no no you're so wrong!! They wear pijamas with the Emprah! Everybody knows that

I didn't think Marines went to bed.

They do, just not in the man-and-woman, more like in the i-haven't-slept-been-fighting-for-the-last-5-weeks way...

Melissia wrote:I doubt they wear anything other than their power armor. And in fact, their power armor is described as so difficult to get out of they rarely remove it anyway.

Depends on the books, I'd suppose; The books for the Thousand Sons and Iron Snakes depict the marines as very often going without armor when in the comfort and safty of home base, and the Alpha legion book implies the same for purposes of espionage

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the question of the thread itself, the couple of books I've read describe body gloves.

Marines couldn't do proper espionage (IE, spying and infiltration of enemy organizations) even without power armor. They're too damn big and quite obviously not human.

Maybe they could hide and watch/listen, but there's only so much you can get from that.

It's pretty easy to remove (armour). All marine chapters I've read about wear a body suit. When off duty, they wear robes and tunics. They actually do this very frequently-even some of the traitor legions do this. They take off their armour in Thousand Sons (Graham Mcneill) Brothers of the Snake (Dan Abnett) Soul Hunter (Aaron Dembeski Bowden) Salamander (Nick Kyme) Storm of Iron (Graham Mcneill) Grey Knights (Ben counter) and Hammer Of Daemons (Ben counter) Horus rising (Abnett). The list could continue. Also, Marines are MUCH better at infiltrating in comparison to guard. Ill cite sources later- gotta go now

In the Guard omnibus the last story (cannot for the life of me remember the name) depicts a Marine out of armor wearing a tunic/robe of some sort. I'm thinking a toga!

SM TOGA SM TOGA, nice ring to it don't ya think?

Also, Marines are MUCH better at infiltrating in comparison to guard

No, they aren't. Eight foot genetically modified monstrosities do not fit in to an ordinary human population. Indeed, if humans saw a Marine out of their power armor I imagine they'd think they were mutants and react very poorly to them.

Think undercover cops-- they dress as they're supposed to dress in order to fit in to the organization they're infiltrating. Now imagine if that undercover cop was eight feet tall, with freakish musculature and blatant mutation along the spine. It ain't gonna work.

But they could bring a leafy stick to hide behind? No one would recognize a Space Marine without Power Armour hiding behind a nice, leafy stick!

This is a Space Marine dressed undercover to blend into the normal population.

No. Here is an marine out of armour:

Melissia wrote:

Also, Marines are MUCH better at infiltrating in comparison to guard

No, they aren't. Eight foot genetically modified monstrosities do not fit in to an ordinary human population. Indeed, if humans saw a Marine out of their power armor I imagine they'd think they were mutants and react very poorly to them.

Think undercover cops-- they dress as they're supposed to dress in order to fit in to the organization they're infiltrating. Now imagine if that undercover cop was eight feet tall, with freakish musculature and blatant mutation along the spine. It ain't gonna work.

Read Legion. The Alpha Legion to this day never even fights. All they do is Espionage.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Read Legion. The Alpha Legion to this day never even fights. All they do is Espionage.

No, because I do not like to read stupid.

A Marine has as much chance of fitting in with the day to day lives of common humans as an Ork does. I don't care what craptastic BL author of the month says otherwise, it is a biological impossibility for Marines to do such undercover work amongst ordinary humans-- they're too damn huge, they're too damn muscular, and they're too damn obviously mutated beyond human. Just the black carapace alone would show that, making Marines singularly unsuitable for, say, infiltrating cults and uncovering their connections That is why the Inquisition doesn't USE Marines for that purpose-- they SUCK at it.

Melissia wrote:No, because I do not like to read stupid.

A Marine has as much chance of fitting in with the day to day lives of common humans as an Ork does. I don't care what craptastic BL author of the month says otherwise, it is a biological impossibility for Marines to do such undercover work amongst ordinary humans-- they're too damn huge, they're too damn muscular, and they're too damn obviously mutated beyond human. Just the black carapace alone would show that, making Marines singularly unsuitable for, say, infiltrating cults and uncovering their connections That is why the Inquisition doesn't USE Marines for that purpose-- they SUCK at it.

No, the Inquisition doesn't use Marines for espionage because the Marines refuse to do espionage for the Inquisition.

The Alpha Legion is, once again, an entirely espionage based legion. Even now. In Legion, Alpha Marines stage an ambush, using human soldiers as bait, during which they masquerade as part of the enemy force. Granted, that disguise calls for them to wear robes which entirely conceal their features.

The average Space Marine is what, eight feet tall in their socks? And built like a brick wall. But in an Imperium of a million worlds, that kind of thing can be passed off. They certainly won't be average, but neither are they impossible. Anyone from a high-gravity world would be similarly built, though probably shorter. Anyone from a low gravity world would probably be just as tall or taller, though more slender.

However, I would agree with you that Space Marines are not the ones you turn to when you want an insider in a cult. What they CAN be very good at is avoiding notice entirely. Those Space Marines that specialize in stealth get very, very good at it. They will still stick out in a crowd, though, so I would imagine that Alpha Legion operatives basically avoid any notice as much as they can, masquerade as loyal Space Marines when they must, and otherwise act through cultists and other human operatives as much as possible.

BeRzErKeR wrote:No, the Inquisition doesn't use Marines for espionage because the Marines refuse to do espionage for the Inquisition.

The Marines don't "refuse" to do it, because they aren't ASKED to. They are not the ideal candidates for it. When the Inqusitiion wants Marines, they don't want them for infiltration. They want them for killing gak dead, because that's what Marines are good at. Not infiltration and investigation.

Melissia wrote:Marines couldn't do proper espionage (IE, spying and infiltration of enemy organizations) even without power armor. They're too damn big and quite obviously not human.

Maybe they could hide and watch/listen, but there's only so much you can get from that.

The way its depicted is that they are usually (at least within the Book 'Legion' , which i actually found more entertaining then your average book by Michale Crichton - but since he went loopy near the end, perhaps he's no longer a valid author to compare too ) with an entourage of normal humans, and they themselves are more or less what they are - abnormally large humans. I mean, its not like in our own time we dont have the occasional human who is just HUGE (take Shaq, for example) - and when with a few normal sized people, and shown to be interacting with them just fine...

...sometimes it can help make a disguise in plain sight. Particularly in the era of the great crusade, when most of the populations who might be on the wrong end of the various sights of Imperium owned weapons would never have known about the concept of a space marine to begin with.

And regardless of how well a Space marine may or may not conduct espionage, there is certainly validity to Space Marines not wearing thier armor all the time. (I also think you take the term 'Black carapace' too literally- I had always been under the impression it was a series of implants under the skin, not over the skin, and connecting into the nervous system, amongst any other claims of what it dose)

*Points at the Space Marine scouts*

Pajamas... or maybe a loin cloth.

SM scouts are also not yet full Astartes, and furthermore, they can hide and sneak, but it could hardly be argued that they can do investigative or undercover work.

That's what the Arbites and the Inquisition are for.

*shrugs* Well, I don't know then. I've never had the feeling that Space Marines in general cared much for finding out exactly what they shoot at as long as some guy/gal of authority asks them to shoot.

I haven't read any novells, I have never held a Space Marine codex (and I'm proud of it!) so what they wear under their power armour is beyond me... I'd guess, though, that the Ultramarines at least wear either pink underwear, or some white ones with red hearts on.

I don't care so much either, because I'm not so keen on thinking about what any man wears under whatever I see him wearing..

Don't mind me. I just tend to react poorly to Marine fanboys saying "my faction can do everything better than everyone else". No, they can't

Arbites spend their entire lives investigating and rooting out criminals and cultists, it's their job. They aren't warriors per se, though they can certain put up a damned good fight as far as humans go; rather, what they are is a combination of the FBI, CSI, and Judge Dredd. Which is probably part of the reason why I like them, as Judge Dredd is awesome (Despite the movie's attempt at ruining him).

Marines spend their entire time training for battle, or actually in battle. In the arena of battle, with their quick decapitating strikes, it can be argued that they have very few peers. Though I would argue that the Guard is much better at a stand up fight, if only because they don't care about casualties, whereas the loss of ten Marines is a pretty big loss to the chapter in comparison to the loss of a few thousand Guardsmen.

The smart authors know this and depict Marines doing what they do best, dropping in on an important location, killing everything that moves, and then leaving for the next objective before a reprisal can be launched. The gakky ones depict them doing other things which they want to claim is heroic, but doesn't really make sense, like half a squad trying to hold the line against a few thousand Orks. Which really should end up with a lot of dead Orks, this is true, but no surviving Marines. Orks are not pushovers.

Okay, sorry. Done ranting.

Melissia wrote:Hah, so they wear leotards!

That wasn't a leotard. The Marine in the picture is Mentor Legion. The body of the armour is dark green.

One day I'm going to have to challange you, Melissia, on text-wall-building.. *grin*

Of course everyone thinks their guys are the best at everything.. But let's just all face it, the Night Lords are better! (Couldn't resist, don't kill me!)

If I were to hire a spy, the Space Marines wouldn't be the first to pop up in my mind..

insaniak wrote:

Melissia wrote:Hah, so they wear leotards!

That wasn't a leotard. The Marine in the picture is Mentor Legion. The body of the armour is dark green.

Really? Hrm. That's an... interesting... scheme...

Espionage doesn't mean hiding in plain sight.


marines have senses bordering on Animalistic. if they can find a place they won't be visable then they can do it.

they can hear very well, they could eavesdrop on a conversation and be accross the street.

Not all Subtrafuge missions will be in populated areas. they will scout things out if there arn't any scout squads avaliable.


there are Humans in some portions of the Galaxy that do reach Astasrtes size. in the Ravenor omnibus there are people who are from a certain planet who reach the same height as a Space Marine, and thats just the women.

Edit: Yeah that.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Read Legion. The Alpha Legion to this day never even fights. All they do is Espionage.

No, because I do not like to read stupid.

A Marine has as much chance of fitting in with the day to day lives of common humans as an Ork does. I don't care what craptastic BL author of the month says otherwise, it is a biological impossibility for Marines to do such undercover work amongst ordinary humans-- they're too damn huge, they're too damn muscular, and they're too damn obviously mutated beyond human. Just the black carapace alone would show that, making Marines singularly unsuitable for, say, infiltrating cults and uncovering their connections That is why the Inquisition doesn't USE Marines for that purpose-- they SUCK at it.

Maybe they are just very kunning? Like da Orcses?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Feth and gakk are SM swear words
even I know that

I thought Feth was Tanith and Gakk was Verghastite

They are.

In Storm of Iron a squad of Iron Warriors infiltrate the base of a fort. Iron Warriors mechanical leg locks up though and one of them gets hit by a mortar
In The Chapters Due a squad of raven guard infiltrate a fortress, including auspexes and all that other stuff.
Captain Eshara of the Imperial Fists infiltrated a renegade camp and raped all the artillery and sleeping guys there.
'Scout squads are the vanguard of a Space Marine army. Infiltrating behind enemy lines they sow disruption and secure vital strongpoints. Only once a Scout has proven his courage and skill at arms in a Chapter's Scout Company is he elevated to the rank of battle brother, and inducted into one of the Chapter's Battle Companies.'-They're the same size as a standard marine.
In And They Shall Know No Fear a squad of Black Templars infiltrate a fort. May be back with more later
The Alpha Legion infiltrate in full armour. Easily (I'll get examples if you want me too. Loads.)
Zso Sahaal infiltrates and imperial world whilst an Inquisitor is trying to scope him out (Lord of Night)
Night Lords also infiltrate in full armour. Easily (I'll get examples if you want me too. Loads.)

It likely depends on the chapter, but no, for most chapters, scouts are not as large as Astartes. Remember, that scouts start off at, what, eleven years of age?

the only difference between a scout and a Space marine, physically, is the Black Carapace.

they will have the same body mass and be their adult size.

No, not all implants are added in at the same time. Here's the rough implant schedule for a codex chapter:

The Secondary Heart, Ossmodula, and Biscopia are introduced at roughly the same time between 10 and 14 years of age.

The Haemastamen and Larraman's Organ are introduced at the same time, at a different stage then the previous, leaning towards 12-14.

The Catalepsean Node (and the beginning of hypnotherapy) is added in between 14 and 17 years of age.

The Preomnor, Omophagea, and multi-lung must be introduced at the same time, at roughly 14-16 years of age. The Occulobe, Lyman's Ear, Sus-an Membrane, and Melanochrome are inserted in roughly the same time.

The Oolitic Kidney and Neuroglottis are introduced at the same time, around the age of sixteen.

The Mucranoid, Betcher's Gland, Progenoids, and Black Carapace are added in between sixteen and eighteen.


The idea that scouts grow in less than a year from prepubescent child to monstrous killing machine is ludicrous and unfluffy. It takes eight years minimum for carapace to be put in, all the while they're growing into becoming a Space Marine.

i never said the implants were added at the same time.



a Initiate is trained for years and once he has recieved all the implants except the Black Carapace he is put into the scout company to prove his worth.


after proving his worth he recieves the Black Carapace and becomes a Battle Brother.

Source? My knowledge of Marine biology is hardly perfect, and the info I quoted is probably outdated.

Lexicanum.


it say marines become a Brother between the ages of 16-18 and further down the page it says they recieve the 16th-19th implants at this time. the Black Carapace is one of them.

Forget carapace forget body gloves its all about...

THONGS WITH THE EMPORERS FACE ON!!!!!

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Read Legion. The Alpha Legion to this day never even fights. All they do is Espionage.

No, because I do not like to read stupid.

A Marine has as much chance of fitting in with the day to day lives of common humans as an Ork does. I don't care what craptastic BL author of the month says otherwise, it is a biological impossibility for Marines to do such undercover work amongst ordinary humans-- they're too damn huge, they're too damn muscular, and they're too damn obviously mutated beyond human. Just the black carapace alone would show that, making Marines singularly unsuitable for, say, infiltrating cults and uncovering their connections That is why the Inquisition doesn't USE Marines for that purpose-- they SUCK at it.

That book was written by Dan Abnett who shapes most of their fluff. And the Alpha Legion has always used regular humans to do most of their fighting. That's what they're known for. This has been written repeatedly in the codexes. Also SM scouts are known for being very good, guess what?, scouts. One day Melissia you'll have to admit that a Space Marine can can be a capable soldier and may have a few abilities that can at least match a Guardsmen.

And one day you might be able to read my posts and see that I never said they weren't capable soldiers

Grey Templar wrote:Lexicanum.

No really, source?

lexicanum cites White Dwarf 98.

happy now?

Melissia wrote:And one day you might be able to read my posts and see that I never said they weren't capable soldiers

Grey Templar wrote:Lexicanum.

No really, source?

how about instead you check your 1200 posts and find me one that says something along the lines of "Space Marines did ok here I guess".

It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:how about instead you check your 1200 posts and find me one that says something along the lines of "Space Marines did ok here I guess".

I'm not the one throwing accusations around, so I don't need to back them up.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

Yep. And the Black Carapace is a very obvious mutation / genetic implant / whatever you want to call it.

Melissia wrote: Yep. And the Black Carapace is a very obvious mutation / genetic implant / whatever you want to call it.

Not that obvious, since aside from the armour interface, it's under the skin.

Yes, under the skin-- but how far? Skin isn't perfectly opaque, and the Black Carapace is quite differently colored.

well, its obvious when a marine isn't wearing his armour.


Black Carapace is the very last implant, given when a scout has beed deemed worthy of it.

Melissia wrote:Yes, under the skin-- but how far? Skin isn't perfectly opaque, and the Black Carapace is quite differently colored.

So? You have a largish guy (not unnaturally so, since current fluff seems to suggest that even unmodified humans are commonly over 7 foot tall) with dark skin. Given that the majority of the galaxy's residents have never even seen a Space Marine with his armour on, how many are going to recognise him as anything out of the ordinary with it off?

Not really, Cain is described as roughly two meters tall (roughly seven feet), and almost invariably the tallest person in any given room.

Marines would be a foot taller than he is, at least, and a helluvalot muscular.

marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

especially when BL books do mention that there are people who reach that height without modification.

I know a legion that wears nothing under their Power Armour... The Thousand Sons! *grin* No one in it to wear anything! .. Well, except the power armour.. *shrug*

Grey Templar wrote:marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

Try eight feet minimum. Catachan, whom are at least seven feet on average, are dwarfed by Astartes.

Lexicanum actually says 6 ft, i was increasing it to 7 ft because its source was old.

Chatachans may be "dwarfed" by a Marine, but the actual size is probably not abnormal, not common, but not unheard of.

Size difference is likely to be in the Chest and abdominal regions and not height. another 6-8 inches would be enough to create an aura of mass, but wouldn't stick out if a marine was in an area populated or frequented by larger human specimens.




Hive dwellers will tend to be shorter in height. a combonation of lower nutrition and poor living conditions.

those who live on Agri or Feral worlds are likely much bigger then those in the Industrial sections.


Worlds that are big commercial centers would have all manner of peoples. some would reach Astartes height.

*shrug* I've always read it as eight feet. I have no source for this, but I laugh at the idea of them being six feet. Catachan are larger than that.

Melissia wrote:I doubt they wear anything other than their power armor. And in fact, their power armor is described as so difficult to get out of they rarely remove it anyway.

I disagree. Ahriman hardly ever wears power armor in a thousand sons. He is frequently wearing robes and lounge wear. Even when he has to do important stuff, he still wears whatever he wants.

Space Marines wear a Chest Harness (to protect vital organs), a "Body Glove" (made out of some sort of bulletproof material,IIRC) and some sort of Ceramite Cod-piece (for obvious reasons,lol).

"power armor" is a combination of a variety of integrated battle systems. Not just a metal suit with lights and sunglasses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

Try eight feet minimum. Catachan, whom are at least seven feet on average, are dwarfed by Astartes.

You are correct. Catachans are completely dwarfed by the hulking musculature of astartes. Astartes are about 8 feet tall, maybe 9 feet with power armor. Cadians are probably around 6 feet tall,while catachans are probably around 6.75 feet tall. Astartes are not only tall,but incredibly wide and built.

An astartes might be able to look an ogryn right in the eyes.

However, all this aside, I have read more than a few bits of chaos fluff, where the Marine and the Armor have begun to merge, and removing the armor can be painful or kill. Chaos Marines don't take of armor, and Thousand Sons, as mentioned above are basically possessed power armor suits... very Haunted Mansion.. sppppoooookkyyyy IIRC.

thegrav wrote:However, all this aside, I have read more than a few bits of chaos fluff, where the Marine and the Armor have begun to merge, and removing the armor can be painful or kill. Chaos Marines don't take of armor, and Thousand Sons, as mentioned above are basically possessed power armor suits... very Haunted Mansion.. sppppoooookkyyyy IIRC.

No,I'm referring to the book, a thousand sons. The Chaos Thousand Sons are forever trapped in their armor, turned to dust by the rubric.

Some marines,like the imperial fists,have prosthetic limbs that work with their power armor. I can't imagine they could take their armor off without losing a limb,haha

@ thegrav

SMs are smaller then Ogryns. the minies are, even taking into account non-real comparative sizes, different sizes.


in the SW: Omnibus the ogryns are several Feet taller and wider. the models and their stats reflect this.

Grey Templar wrote:@ thegrav

SMs are smaller then Ogryns. the minies are, even taking into account non-real comparative sizes, different sizes.


in the SW: Omnibus the ogryns are several Feet taller and wider. the models and their stats reflect this.

Okay,yeah. That makes sense. They ARE mutants.

@ me ? I am so confused..

i meant Samus. the little scroll chart at the bottom of the post writing screen is tough to navigate.

Hehe no worries.

Well, I play SWs so I assume they just weave something out of their own body hair.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

True much Space marines (if they concentrate enough) can actually pick up the black carapace from underneath skins of a marine. And lots of Junctions and sockets come out, which interact with their armour. Talos (Night Lord Prophet) gets irritated because one of them is itchy

And while I'm here, I'd just like to say Corax can turn himself invisble. That's just too cool

Melissia, I'm working on a novel for BL at the moment, and I popped Graham McNeil an email to ask some fluff questions in regards to Space Marine recruitment, training, and the final 'raising' to Brother status.

You are correct, recruits are picked up young (10-11) and the stages of their implants continue during the course of their trainings. They are not inducted into Scouts (or as Black Templar neophytes) however until their training and all implants are complete. The reason for this is a lot of the organs are dependant on the function of others and require the body to grow and mature enough for them to be purposeful.

The greater majority of this fluff can be found on the Lexicanum page on recruitment of marines. For your convenience, here is a link:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

As the Black Carapace is often the final step introduced before a Neophyte is a ready Space Marine, it stands to reason that Scouts, who prove themselves worthy of the Carapace in combat, already have the remainder of their procedures complete. As such, they will already be tall enough. Depending on how well he proves himself, some scouts could be scouts for a few years (I would assume at the mimimum 5-6 so their Progenoid gland is sufficiently matured) and if say it is a strict Astartes chapter, some Scouts could be waiting for a full Brother spot for many decades. It's a tough roster in the big leagues!

A scout will not be 5-6 foot one day and suddenly be 8 foot the next day when he is promoted and prepped for surgery. There are no magic knee implants in the 41st Millennium


Also, I should stress that 'infiltrate' does not necessarily mean in plain sight. The feral nature of a Marine would mean he could probably lay waiting much like a Vindicare Assassin. His control over his body functions would easily facilitate him to regulate his breathing and body temperature so as not to appear too distinct on scanners or to the ear. Undoubtedly there will still be things that are just not going to be fooled by a Space Marine, but I don't blame their 'size' so much as their species.

Additionally, muscles do not make noise. Control of the distortion you generate is determined by your agility, the way you walk, etc. If taught to prowl correctly, I'm sure most marines could out do the most resourceful of ninjas. Having that coiled muscle strength ready though just means when it comes time to make that secret deadly strike, they will do it fast and hard, be it knife or chokehold or whatever.

zegna wrote:
Also, I should stress that 'infiltrate' does not necessarily mean in plain sight. The feral nature of a Marine would mean he could probably lay waiting much like a Vindicare Assassin. His control over his body functions would easily facilitate him to regulate his breathing and body temperature so as not to appear too distinct on scanners or to the ear.

Like in Soul Hunter. A callidus assasin is chilling out. Then talos smashes through the wall, and attempts to colloquially, 'Murk her'. Or in Dark Apostle. They (Word Bearer Terminators) turn their bodily functions pretty much off. They then ambush an Imperial guard column-led by an Emperor Titan. That made me LOL

karimabuseer wrote:

zegna wrote:
Also, I should stress that 'infiltrate' does not necessarily mean in plain sight. The feral nature of a Marine would mean he could probably lay waiting much like a Vindicare Assassin. His control over his body functions would easily facilitate him to regulate his breathing and body temperature so as not to appear too distinct on scanners or to the ear.

Like in Soul Hunter. A callidus assasin is chilling out. Then talos smashes through the wall, and attempts to colloquially, 'Murk her'. Or in Dark Apostle. They (Word Bearer Terminators) turn their bodily functions pretty much off. They then ambush an Imperial guard column-led by an Emperor Titan. That made me LOL

Now i really gotta go read Dark Apostle.

From the way I interpreted the space wolf first omnibus the wolves wear these tight tunics that keep your body the right temprature.

HA. Dark apostle is great! I'm reading it right now. It's good.

Why are people saying all extremely buff? Where's the source for that? In the Guard Ominbus, the final few pages details a Death Spector Space Marine and an extremely tall thin (lanky?) but well toned guy in a toga.
Where does it say they look like Arnie in the 80s?


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The Odessey wrote:Why are people saying all extremely buff? Where's the source for that? In the Guard Ominbus, the final few pages details a Death Spector Space Marine and an extremely tall thin (lanky?) but well toned guy in a toga.
Where does it say they look like Arnie in the 80s?


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Most traditional material shows SM's to be fairly big bulk wise. Try Warhammer Monthly; I think the comic is well out of publication now, but back in the late 90s/early 00s they ran a comic called Bloodquest - about a Blood Angels Captain on a quest to find a sword. Most of the Marines portrayed on that, if not Arnold level, were quite built.

I do agree though that you would need a trade-off somewhere. Bulk is definitely not indicative of strength, and if anything, it would deter agility. If you were to introduce a sense of realism to it, it would be possible that most SMs would be recommended to keep a degree of belly, as the fatty tissue would prevent your guts spilling out should you take a wound (Roman gladiators were famous for this), though perhaps the presence of their armour sufficiently offsets this.

zegna wrote:

The Odessey wrote:Why are people saying all extremely buff? Where's the source for that? In the Guard Ominbus, the final few pages details a Death Spector Space Marine and an extremely tall thin (lanky?) but well toned guy in a toga.
Where does it say they look like Arnie in the 80s?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit * as an

Most traditional material shows SM's to be fairly big bulk wise. Try Warhammer Monthly; I think the comic is well out of publication now, but back in the late 90s/early 00s they ran a comic called Bloodquest - about a Blood Angels Captain on a quest to find a sword. Most of the Marines portrayed on that, if not Arnold level, were quite built.

I do agree though that you would need a trade-off somewhere. Bulk is definitely not indicative of strength, and if anything, it would deter agility. If you were to introduce a sense of realism to it, it would be possible that most SMs would be recommended to keep a degree of belly, as the fatty tissue would prevent your guts spilling out should you take a wound (Roman gladiators were famous for this), though perhaps the presence of their armour sufficiently offsets this.

Also there is the question of the extreme cybernetic augmentation, including muscle grafts, bone reinforcements subdermal armor and the black carapace...that stuff must go somewhere, so even a lean and wiry guy would end up a lot more bulky then he would normally be.

zegna wrote:
A scout will not be 5-6 foot one day and suddenly be 8 foot the next day when he is promoted and prepped for surgery. There are no magic knee implants in the 41st Millennium

You mean 40k is not GATACA!!! No!?! (sarcasm.)

Also, I should stress that 'infiltrate' does not necessarily mean in plain sight.

I think the true meaning of the word espionage is lost on most people now days, there is a very interesting thread talking about SMs and espionage... and how it could never happen, because a marine is "Too Big" to sell military secrets, steal military secrets, paint a target with a laser from concealment, take pictures from a plane, etc. (If I have to mark it again.. Sarcasm.. )

zegna wrote:

The Odessey wrote:Why are people saying all extremely buff? Where's the source for that? In the Guard Ominbus, the final few pages details a Death Spector Space Marine and an extremely tall thin (lanky?) but well toned guy in a toga.
Where does it say they look like Arnie in the 80s?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit * as an

Most traditional material shows SM's to be fairly big bulk wise. Try Warhammer Monthly; I think the comic is well out of publication now, but back in the late 90s/early 00s they ran a comic called Bloodquest - about a Blood Angels Captain on a quest to find a sword. Most of the Marines portrayed on that, if not Arnold level, were quite built.

I remember that. First warhammer fluff I ever read. It was bloody legendary. I'm actually hoping to find a copy of that somewhere :/
And Marines look different depending on...the marines. I.e in Salamander, Tsu'gan is bigger than Iagon who they describe as 'Slight' (might have Iagons name wrong).

I had a haunting image of a space marine in a pair of Y fronts...

They don't wear Y fronts because they don't need to.

In the Graham McNeill Ultramarines books, it describes the character as wearing a loose, blue chiton of some sort

I think I've definately read about Loken wearing a body glove under the armour in HH series. Even to a point where the scrap with the Interex is going off and Lokens Body glove reacts on a molecular level to make the PA more responsive? A friend is reading my HH books so cannot confirm. Please dont beat on me if I'm wrong!!!

karimabuseer wrote:

zegna wrote:

The Odessey wrote:Why are people saying all extremely buff? Where's the source for that? In the Guard Ominbus, the final few pages details a Death Spector Space Marine and an extremely tall thin (lanky?) but well toned guy in a toga.
Where does it say they look like Arnie in the 80s?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit * as an

Most traditional material shows SM's to be fairly big bulk wise. Try Warhammer Monthly; I think the comic is well out of publication now, but back in the late 90s/early 00s they ran a comic called Bloodquest - about a Blood Angels Captain on a quest to find a sword. Most of the Marines portrayed on that, if not Arnold level, were quite built.

I remember that. First warhammer fluff I ever read. It was bloody legendary. I'm actually hoping to find a copy of that somewhere :/
And Marines look different depending on...the marines. I.e in Salamander, Tsu'gan is bigger than Iagon who they describe as 'Slight' (might have Iagons name wrong).

Interesting, I shall have to find one of these.........

i've read mostly of body gloves and, as said above, combat fatigues. i think one book also mentions a simple loincloth being worn, perhaps by a csm.