11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
Copied for Convenience:
Splinter Rifle: 12" S:2 AP:5 Rapid Fire, Poisoned (4+)
Splinter Pod: 18" S:3 AP:5 Assault 2, Poisoned (4+)
Splinter Cannon: 24" S:2 AP:5 Heavy 6, Poisoned (4+)
Still no solid word on schedule, but the smart money is now leaning toward a Dark Eldar unveiling at Games Day UK, with a full release in October on the heels of the Fantasy 8th boxed set.
Enjoy.
Edited by yakface:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine
1523
Post by: Saldiven
Hrm. Seems to match with some of the other ideas that have floated around. The low S keeps them from having the re-roll to wound very often, but the prevalence of 4+ poisoned weapons will make high toughness armies unhappy with death by saving throw.
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Post by: farseerphil
whatn exactly is poisoned? why is this Par for the Dark Eldar course?
1523
Post by: Saldiven
farseerphil wrote:whatn exactly is poisoned? why is this Par for the Dark Eldar course?
Poisoned weapons always wound on a given roll rather than on a comparison of strength to toughness.
It fits the DE fluff, as all the splinter weapons are described as firing crystallized poisons rather than slugs or explosive rounds.
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Post by: jbunny
Why have a 12" Rapid Fire weapon?
You can fire once at 12" or twice at 12" Something does not seem right with this.
I also really don't think they are going to give an entire army posioned weapons on the basic troopers.
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Post by: gregor_xenos
Hooray!! The days of crappy "to wound" rolls is almost over!
26728
Post by: Bavius
So... I looked up poison, and it's a close combat descriptor. Are these weapons poisoned, or does a special rule give them a similar rule?
Do normal DE weapons have poison at range? At this point I don't believe this rumor.
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Post by: whitedragon
jbunny wrote:Why have a 12" Rapid Fire weapon?
You can fire once at 12" or twice at 12" Something does not seem right with this.
I also really don't think they are going to give an entire army posioned weapons on the basic troopers.
It's short ranged, but you can't charge after firing, that's what they want to prevent it seems.
And Necrons have a whole army of glancing hit guns, so whats so different.
24207
Post by: jbunny
whitedragon wrote:jbunny wrote:Why have a 12" Rapid Fire weapon?
You can fire once at 12" or twice at 12" Something does not seem right with this.
I also really don't think they are going to give an entire army posioned weapons on the basic troopers.
It's short ranged, but you can't charge after firing, that's what they want to prevent it seems.
And Necrons have a whole army of glancing hit guns, so whats so different.
Do you honestly think Necrons will keep that ability with their next codex? I don't.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
low strength and short range make me cry
1523
Post by: Saldiven
Bavius wrote:So... I looked up poison, and it's a close combat descriptor. Are these weapons poisoned, or does a special rule give them a similar rule?
Do normal DE weapons have poison at range? At this point I don't believe this rumor.
There is precedent for ranged poisoned weapons. IG have a tank with a poisoned template weapon. I believe that Tyranids also have a poisoned shooting attack on their Gargoyles or some such. Automatically Appended Next Post: TyraelVladinhurst wrote:low strength and short range make me cry
Strength is kinda immaterial if you're always wounding on 4+, even against thinks like T8 Wraithlords and C'tan.
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Post by: hungryp
Saldiven wrote:
Strength is kinda immaterial if you're always wounding on 4+, even against thinks like T8 Wraithlords and C'tan.
A high strength poisoned attack can get a re-roll though (if you would already wound on the same roll as the poison - so S4 vs T4, for example).
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Post by: Saldiven
hungryp wrote:Saldiven wrote:
Strength is kinda immaterial if you're always wounding on 4+, even against thinks like T8 Wraithlords and C'tan.
A high strength poisoned attack can get a re-roll though (if you would already wound on the same roll as the poison - so S4 vs T4, for example).
Yes, but the low S only really matters when shooting at vehicles.
Effectively:
Against IG it's a lasgun.
Against MEq it's a bolter.
Against Plague Marines it's a heavy bolter.
Against most MC's it's a scatter laser.
Against C'tan it's a krak missile.
If the weapons had a higher strength, then it would get an added benefit in some certain situations. There is no detriment to having S2, except when shooting at vehicles.
I'm more concerned about 12" range rapid fire; no shooting then assaulting with them.
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Post by: Erasoketa
THe 12" rapid fire is quit odd. I think this needs a big amount of salt.
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
Maybe. But maybe this is a sign of the basic DE trooper to come?
Being able to take down any "T" creature/model with the power of numbers seems pretty cool to me - minus the fact they will probably stay just as squishy.
Seems Raider spam will still be the DE way.
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Post by: Skarboy
A gun with a 12" max range that's anti-infantry only is pretty useless, even with the cool poison effect. Make them Assault 2, basically poisoned SMGs, then you're talking something interesting.
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Post by: metallifan
The 12" range also made me go "Hmmm... Pass the salt please."
The power of the new weapons would explain a range drop, but I doubt it'll be -that- severe. I think whoever posted that on BOLS might have gotten a few numbers mixed up due to a late night post. Spayse Emprah knows, I've done myself when I'm really tired/drunk/both
1523
Post by: Saldiven
Honestly, at this point I'm not picky. I just wanna see a new codex in print. Haha...even if it sucks, being "new" might reinvigorate my desire to play this game.
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Post by: metallifan
Saldiven wrote:Honestly, at this point I'm not picky. I just wanna see a new codex in print. Haha...even if it sucks, being "new" might reinvigorate my desire to play this game.
Well the other side that's making me not entirely disregard this rumor is the idea that the shorter ranges mean we might be able to expect an extremely fast-moving army. Insane mobility and attack speed would certainly negate crummy weapon ranges, and would cetainly fit the DE fluff like a glove.
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Post by: CrazyThang
Something to remember: Eldar Guardians' weapons are range 12" assault 2.
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Post by: metallifan
Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.
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Post by: CrazyThang
I know. I was just sayin' is all.
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Post by: Shepherd23
jbunny wrote:whitedragon wrote:jbunny wrote:Why have a 12" Rapid Fire weapon?
You can fire once at 12" or twice at 12" Something does not seem right with this.
I also really don't think they are going to give an entire army posioned weapons on the basic troopers.
It's short ranged, but you can't charge after firing, that's what they want to prevent it seems.
And Necrons have a whole army of glancing hit guns, so whats so different.
Do you honestly think Necrons will keep that ability with their next codex? I don't.
Actually, I do believe Necron will keep the glance ability in the next codex. It is a staple of their fluff that Gauss weapons always have a chance to damage a vehicle. With the new Vehicle Glance/Pen charts i do not think that this would be something that would cause an extreme amount of difficulty for most armies considering it only Glances on a roll of 6.
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Post by: Brother SRM
You guys are really going crazy over a 12" range rapid fire weapon. Think about it, when are Dark Eldar not going to be moving? If they're not moving, they're good as dead anyway. Splinter rifles as is are rapid fire weapons, no? It's really not so strange.
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Post by: Fishboy
I think it gives us a choice, shoot once and charge or shoot twice and pray. In most cases with the poison weapons you will have more chance at wounding. Now I can concentrate all my CC wargear on my CC units.
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Post by: CrazyThang
Woah woah just 'cuz my name is Crazy doesn't mean I'm going crazy! I have no stake in this NONE!! >.>
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Post by: Absolutionis
Fishboy wrote:I think it gives us a choice, shoot once and charge or shoot twice and pray. In most cases with the poison weapons you will have more chance at wounding. Now I can concentrate all my CC wargear on my CC units.
Rapid Fire Weapons, regardless of what "mode" you fire them, disallow charges.
It's ironic that the Dark Eldar, the most "mobile" force in the game, gets rapid fire weapons on their basic troops whereas other "mobile" armies such as Eldar and Tyranids have assault weapons (or relentless) on pretty much everything in the army.
Giving Dark Eldar poisoned weapons as basic troop guns improves them significantly, and the range decrease brings Warriors in line with the Guardian 'nerf' they received long ago. At the very least, it differentiates Splinter Weapons from Shuriken weapons without one being strictly better than the other.
EDIT: Double Post
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Post by: Erasoketa
Brother SRM wrote:You guys are really going crazy over a 12" range rapid fire weapon. Think about it, when are Dark Eldar not going to be moving? If they're not moving, they're good as dead anyway. Splinter rifles as is are rapid fire weapons, no? It's really not so strange.
DE do not move when you make sniper squads of 10 warriors with 2 dark lances and 8 splinter rifles for 100 points. For this kind of units, the splinter rifle we have now is better (at least for the range). For the raider squads the new weapons, be them RF or assault 2, would be better.
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Post by: anumberone
I'd be more bummed about splinter cannons being heavy now, despite being poisoned and 6 shots instead of 4. Hoping this is not true.
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Post by: Archonate
Yeah I'm hoping some of this is not true. All DE infantry weaponry should be Assault. Splinter Cannons REALLY need to not be heavy. In their current fluff, the ammo is propelled magnetically and therefore generates zero recoil. (Same with Splinter Rifles if I'm not mistaken) Assault just makes more sense. GW finally got the poison right. (assuming that rumor is true.) What bothers me about DE now is the way their fluff goes on and on about how fast they are, when in the game they're really not much faster than any other mech army. This is GWs chance to get DE right... They better not screw this up.
I know earlier rumors said they would be 18", Assault 2 and I think this is perfect. Take the Splinter Pod, make it S2 and call it a Splinter Rifle... 'Splinter Pod' sounds gay, but it has the right stats.
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Post by: Nightwatch
Archonate wrote:
I know earlier rumors said they would be 18", Assault 2 and I think this is perfect. Take the Splinter Pod, make it S2 and call it a Splinter Rifle... 'Splinter Pod' sounds gay, but it has the right stats.
The first time I've heard of a weapon sounding "gay". Most of them go "BOOM!" in my experience, but the Dark Eldar have always been known for unnecessary extravagance. 
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Overall, Dark Eldars gun got nerfed:
- 12" guns are much worse than 24", and not scything down Guard? Lame.
- Heavy Splinter Cannons? Ouch, sorry Scourges.
October? Anytime after the 10th will be fine by me!
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Post by: shabbadoo
Other than for the splinter pod, those weapon stats suck arse. For one thing, whoever heard of a cannon version of anything being less damaging, regardless of an increase in the rate of fire. Then there's the range 12" rapid fire weapon. What garbage.
The only way to take the otherworldly glow off of Jes Goodwin's new miniature line for Dark Eldar would be to stick them with arse-tastic rules.
I'm thinking that these stats are mostly B.S. sewed to make the actual rules, when they leak out, seem all that much better for not being screwed up; even if they turn out to be not so much different than what the Dark Eldar have now. People will simply be overjoyed at Dark Eldar not having been given crappy weapons.
Oh, that clever GW.
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Post by: cygnnus
metallifan wrote:The 12" range also made me go "Hmmm... Pass the salt please."
The power of the new weapons would explain a range drop, but I doubt it'll be -that- severe. I think whoever posted that on BOLS might have gotten a few numbers mixed up due to a late night post. Spayse Emprah knows, I've done myself when I'm really tired/drunk/both
Isn't the Warp Spider Death Spinner a 12" Rapid Fire Weapon? Or at least I believe it was at one point.
So there's at least a precedence of one...
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: Defiler
cygnnus wrote:metallifan wrote:The 12" range also made me go "Hmmm... Pass the salt please."
The power of the new weapons would explain a range drop, but I doubt it'll be -that- severe. I think whoever posted that on BOLS might have gotten a few numbers mixed up due to a late night post. Spayse Emprah knows, I've done myself when I'm really tired/drunk/both
Isn't the Warp Spider Death Spinner a 12" Rapid Fire Weapon? Or at least I believe it was at one point.
So there's at least a precedence of one...
Valete,
JohnS
I think you're referring to the 3rd edition version of their gun.
Weird stuff like 12 inches rapid fire doesn't happen anymore in 40k. The dev's (honestly) have a much better handle on the actual nuts and bolts of their game system now.
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I'm gonna go ahead and call bs on that whole rumor. No way that's true.
3806
Post by: Grot 6
Someone mistaking wish listing with rumor control.
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Post by: Whatever1
Might not make a whole lot of sense,fluff-wise,but if the Splinter Rifle/Splinter Cannon,were assault weapons,then Raider-spam would be pretty broken.
Move Raider 12"
Disembark Sqaud w/2 Splinter Cannons 2"
Dump 28 shots that wound on 4+ no matter what into target
Assault 6" to mop up what's left and/or deny the opponent the opportunity to charge.
Being able to give most every unit in your army a 20" charge move is already pretty strong for the cost of a Raider,and with the recent cuts to the costs of transports,the points cost on the Raider will probably go down,if anything. Letting them unload that kind of firepower before assaulting makes it a little too over the top,IMO. With the rules in this thread,the DE player is at least forced to make the decision whether to keep his unit in the Raider for protection and to utililze their ranged weapons or to assault to try and tie up units to prevent them from shooting/assaulting.
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Post by: Fateweaver
Hmm. Sounds good. Sure that loadout will only kill 3 MEQ's on average but that same loadout will make Tau and IG squads disappear off the board (assuming rifle is ap5).
It also fits the "alpha strike". If you can survive the first turn (ie 6 or 7 raiders plus assorted nasties (and most likely a few units not seen before)) than you can probably counter assault and have a chance.
Being able to kill 9 guardsman (assuming ap5) or 5 firewarriors and then attacking with 20+ attacks in the assault phase would mean only MEQ would stand a chance against DE. IG on foot (and with DL spam not hard to put a mounted IG army on foot), Orks and even Tyranids would be so very disadvantaged. Basically not much without 3+ save could hold up to that.
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Post by: Whatever1
Fateweaver wrote:Hmm. Sounds good. Sure that loadout will only kill 3 MEQ's on average but that same loadout will make Tau and IG squads disappear off the board (assuming rifle is ap5).
It also fits the "alpha strike". If you can survive the first turn (ie 6 or 7 raiders plus assorted nasties (and most likely a few units not seen before)) than you can probably counter assault and have a chance.
Being able to kill 9 guardsman (assuming ap5) or 5 firewarriors and then attacking with 20+ attacks in the assault phase would mean only MEQ would stand a chance against DE. IG on foot (and with DL spam not hard to put a mounted IG army on foot), Orks and even Tyranids would be so very disadvantaged. Basically not much without 3+ save could hold up to that.
The whole "Alpha Strike" motif for the DE is cool and all,but I think that with Assault weapons,it's just too over the top and not enough armies will be able to survive the first turn well enough to recover and challenge them. I think it will basically turn into DE essentially tearing the guts out of the oppossing army on turn 1,then mopping up whatever's left in the subsequent turns.
Raider-spam will be cheap as heck,from a points standpoint. You figure a DE Raider squad will stay 100-120 points depending on how they're equipped,maybe less since GW will likely undercost the Raider to sell more models,as they have done with many other new models in the past. So,you can throw out 6 10-man Raider Squads with a Dark Lance and 28 (4+)Poisoned shots for 700-800 points,then still have plenty of points left over in a 1500-2000 point army for Raider-mounted Wyches,etc. You can throw out 3 10-woman units of Wyches in Raiders for another 500 points,give or take.
It just seems like too much of a beatstick list. Mech armies are screwed because of DL spam. Horde armies are screwed because of mobility and weight of fire. MC armies are screwed because of poison. On top of it,it just really seems like a list that takes little to no tactics or playing skill to dominate with. "Uhm...ok...I move everything,disembark everything,unload everything,and then assault."
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Post by: Fateweaver
I didn't disagree. I too think Assault 2 (or even 1) would be too OTT against certain armies.
By making the rifle rapid fire it prevents the whole entire shoot, assault and the mop up that would result in that scenario.
Not to mention the guys the raiders will be allowed. It's like if that happens with the gun stats DE players will have to assault with wyches or other assaulty units and not warriors. OMG, combined arms tactics are so not cool!!!!!!!
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Post by: ShineBoss
Archonate wrote:Yeah I'm hoping some of this is not true. All DE infantry weaponry should be Assault. Splinter Cannons REALLY need to not be heavy. In their current fluff, the ammo is propelled magnetically and therefore generates zero recoil.
Is this GW fluff? The no recoil because of the magnetic propulsion? (rather than say, some kind of elf tech stabilizer) Sheesh GW... 
I could buy the splinter cannons being heavy, if scourges were relentless somehow (perhaps giving them jetpacks instead of jump packs)
12" rapid fire is just... no, just no.
Sounds fake.
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Post by: ArbitorIan
Sounds reasonable to me. First thing everyone should remember before they start complaining is that part of the reason FOR updates is to shake up the way you play the army.
I'd expect GW, after this long, to make massive changes to how DE play, starting with removing the Radier Spam and Multiple Dark Lance lists that everyone uses.
The idea of 12" weapons that are in many ways VERY powerful but put you dangerously in charge range if they fail kinda makes sense when you think about the risky way DE play. The poisoned thing is a huge advantage - allowing you to hurt units that every other sort of infantry wouldn't be able to touch - why shouldn't there be an equally big disadvantage?
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Post by: Thor665
Erasoketa wrote:Brother SRM wrote:You guys are really going crazy over a 12" range rapid fire weapon. Think about it, when are Dark Eldar not going to be moving? If they're not moving, they're good as dead anyway. Splinter rifles as is are rapid fire weapons, no? It's really not so strange.
DE do not move when you make sniper squads of 10 warriors with 2 dark lances and 8 splinter rifles for 100 points. For this kind of units, the splinter rifle we have now is better (at least for the range). For the raider squads the new weapons, be them RF or assault 2, would be better.
I actually agree with Brother SRM on that point - generally I'm either rapid firing my splinter rifles or not using them. The point about Lance squads is okay I guess...but really, if you have a Lance in the squad what are you firing at that the rifles are any help whatsoever with?
I will say I'd rather have it as Assault 12 then rapid fire 12 as I like the idea of assault oriented Warriors, but that seems a difficult dream most days.
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Post by: Archonate
Not at all a difficult dream. It's the direction armies are moving these days. My jaw dropped when I saw the kinds of rules and weapons they gave to SWs and BAs. Unbelievably powerful stuff. Poisonous Assault Splinter Rifles would merely be par for the 5th ed codex course. Every time we get a new 5th ed codex, people like Whatever1 pop up expressing sentiments about how such an army would be unbeatable, and it's rules and weapons are way too powerful. (I know I've been that voice in the past) But on the tabletop, they turn out to be fairly well-balanced. Plus we've seen rumors from reliable sources saying that all DE guns will be Assault, including their funky new lances.
And as for their range? Weapons with a 12" range are called Pistols. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that this rumor is utter bs.
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Post by: Nightwatch
Archonate wrote:
And as for their range? Weapons with a 12" range are called Pistols. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that this rumor is utter bs.
Aren't the gretchin guns 12" range?
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Post by: Erasoketa
Nightwatch wrote:Archonate wrote:
And as for their range? Weapons with a 12" range are called Pistols. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that this rumor is utter bs.
Aren't the gretchin guns 12" range?
And meltaguns.
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Post by: focusedfire
Erasoketa wrote:Nightwatch wrote:Archonate wrote:
And as for their range? Weapons with a 12" range are called Pistols. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that this rumor is utter bs.
Aren't the gretchin guns 12" range?
And meltaguns.
And Shuriken Catapults
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Post by: Archonate
focusedfire wrote:Erasoketa wrote:Nightwatch wrote:Archonate wrote:
And as for their range? Weapons with a 12" range are called Pistols. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that this rumor is utter bs.
Aren't the gretchin guns 12" range?
And meltaguns.
And Shuriken Catapults
Gretchin guns are pistols. Meltaguns are Special Weapons and Shuriken Catapults are Assault.
12" Rapid Fire is ridiculous. 24" Rapid Fire would make sense if they were gonna go the RF route.
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Post by: Erasoketa
I'm not defending the viability of the rumoured weapons. I like better assault weapons. Assault 12" Poisoned 4+? That would be cool. 12" RF is stupid, and splinter cannons being heavy is lame.
But there are more weapons ranged 12" that are not pistols. You said that 12" weapons are pistols. That's false. And by the way, meltaguns are assault. The Special Weapon type exists in the army lists, not in the weapons profiles.
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Post by: grizgrin
Sounds like the DE are going to be GW's response to mech. Not sure if they are going about it the right way.
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Post by: focusedfire
Archonate wrote:Gretchin guns are pistols. Meltaguns are Special Weapons and Shuriken Catapults are Assault.
12" Rapid Fire is ridiculous. 24" Rapid Fire would make sense if they were gonna go the RF route.
You said that 12" ranged guns were pistols and we were correcting you. Same as I'm about to do on the Meltas are special weapons. No where in my Tau Codex or 5th ed BRB does it say that the Meltas are Special Weapons.
As to weird ranges. IG storm troopers have an 18" Rapid fire weapon. From a balance pov it makes sense to limit them to rapid fire rather than give them assault.
Now personally, I think the ranges got transposed on the Splinter pod and the rifles.
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Post by: Anarchyman99
What you don't know is if the have pistols and CCWs in addition to the rifles or two CCWs.....so you could Alpha with one unit by driving up a raider and 2 shots at 12 with a unit with poison or say fleet and charge with base attacks +1 Charge, +1 for two CCW's....two types of Alphas....every one chill till the codex is in your flgs
and I don't even play DE.
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Post by: Kirasu
Ill never understand a rumored change is then compared to a rule currently in the current book.. Who cares if cannons are heavy.. scourges may have relentless :p
You never know.. I mean these rumors might not even be true and its even less useful to then assume the current stuff will stay the same. The book is only what, 9 years old now?
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Post by: Drummerboy
lol I don't see what's so bad either...most DE I've ever played never make it out of their Raider. Leave the assault to units that are made for it. It'll make players think a little more than they are use to, but every other army has gone through a similar experience with their new codexes. I think the poison is more than enough of a buff...you can drop MC's, Daemons, and gods (C'Tans) with a 4...not much to complain about there IMO.
And just to note: No matter how a gun is fired it will always have a recoil. Newton's laws have held up everywhere in this galaxy so far (to great accuracy I might add), I'm pretty sure the 3rd law will always exist...despite GW's ever so (attempted) scientific fluff.
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Post by: Anarchyman99
Kirasu wrote:Ill never understand a rumored change is then compared to a rule currently in the current book.. Who cares if cannons are heavy.. scourges may have relentless :p
You never know.. I mean these rumors might not even be true and its even less useful to then assume the current stuff will stay the same. The book is only what, 9 years old now?
Bingo we have a winner!
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Post by: AdeptSister
I was hoping for posion weapons. I am hoping that DE will be able to have a lot of posion as it is perfectly in line with their fluff.
With the way that Posion is available to the majority of Tyranid units, I also think that it makes sense.
I am hoping that most weapons will be assault though.
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Post by: Luthon1234
ArbitorIan wrote:Sounds reasonable to me. First thing everyone should remember before they start complaining is that part of the reason FOR updates is to shake up the way you play the army.
I'd expect GW, after this long, to make massive changes to how DE play, starting with removing the Radier Spam and Multiple Dark Lance lists that everyone uses.
So GW doesn't want 5th ed DE to be competitive in 5th ed? I guess 6th ed is a lot closer than I thought.
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Post by: Kurgash
Luthon1234 wrote:ArbitorIan wrote:Sounds reasonable to me. First thing everyone should remember before they start complaining is that part of the reason FOR updates is to shake up the way you play the army.
I'd expect GW, after this long, to make massive changes to how DE play, starting with removing the Radier Spam and Multiple Dark Lance lists that everyone uses.
So GW doesn't want 5th ed DE to be competitive in 5th ed? I guess 6th ed is a lot closer than I thought.
new weapons, new options, new toys that are the 'stupidly good' units of the book so they sell motif, change one method of army play, introduce 3 others at least.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Kurgash wrote:Luthon1234 wrote:ArbitorIan wrote:Sounds reasonable to me. First thing everyone should remember before they start complaining is that part of the reason FOR updates is to shake up the way you play the army.
I'd expect GW, after this long, to make massive changes to how DE play, starting with removing the Radier Spam and Multiple Dark Lance lists that everyone uses.
So GW doesn't want 5th ed DE to be competitive in 5th ed? I guess 6th ed is a lot closer than I thought.
new weapons, new options, new toys that are the 'stupidly good' units of the book so they sell motif, change one method of army play, introduce 3 others at least.
I 'm just saying mech is king now taking away raiders won't help at all unless DE warriors can deepstrike and have jump packs. They want more people to buy DE and if they ever get around to it raiders will still be one of the most bought unit, other than vets who don't want to buy new raiders/ravagers there still gonna be a lot of new people buying raiders in bulk.
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Post by: Erasoketa
Kirasu wrote:Ill never understand a rumored change is then compared to a rule currently in the current book.. Who cares if cannons are heavy.. scourges may have relentless :p
Scourges might have it, ok. But what about the troop units? The cool thing about DE is being able to use a lot of heavy weapons in their core units. Making DE assault might be too OTT, but making the Splinter Cannon heavy would harm a lot. Sourges would still need some more changes to be competitive, like a points cost drop. And a plastic kit would also make them more atractive.
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Post by: focusedfire
Erasoketa wrote:Scourges might have it, ok. But what about the troop units? The cool thing about DE is being able to use a lot of heavy weapons in their core units. Making DE assault might be too OTT, but making the Splinter Cannon heavy would harm a lot. Sourges would still need some more changes to be competitive, like a points cost drop. And a plastic kit would also make them more atractive.
You ask for to much. Scourges with Poisoned Splinter canns will be insane if they are made relentless.
Of course they could be dropping the Scourges.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Uh oh, my Bloodthirster is getting flashbacks to when he faced those skinks in Warhammer. He never thought he'd see that in 40K.
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Post by: Erasoketa
focusedfire wrote:Erasoketa wrote:Scourges might have it, ok. But what about the troop units? The cool thing about DE is being able to use a lot of heavy weapons in their core units. Making DE assault might be too OTT, but making the Splinter Cannon heavy would harm a lot. Sourges would still need some more changes to be competitive, like a points cost drop. And a plastic kit would also make them more atractive.
You ask for to much. Scourges with Poisoned Splinter canns will be insane if they are made relentless.
Of course they could be dropping the Scourges.
Well, I was thinking in the 4 boltgun shots that the splinter cannon does now, not in the 6 poisoned from OP.
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Post by: Turalon
The Heavy 6 for the splinter cannon is a little disconcerting for me. The best part of them was being able to move and fire.
But if everything is poisoned, that could be really cool. No more "I have nothing that can harm those 2 carneflexes in a 1000pts game" syndrome anymore.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If everything is S2 Poison (4+), seems like auto-loss vs Mech.
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Post by: George Spiggott
Because previously those Strength 3 Splinter Rifles and Strength 4 Splinter Cannons were the bane of armoured transports across the game.
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Post by: Rymafyr
Kirasu wrote:Ill never understand a rumored change is then compared to a rule currently in the current book.. Who cares if cannons are heavy.. scourges may have relentless :p
You never know.. I mean these rumors might not even be true and its even less useful to then assume the current stuff will stay the same. The book is only what, 9 years old now?
Or, maybe all DE warriors will be relentless...we'll just have to see. But honesly even if DE warriors were relentless what's to stop a mech army from keeping their troops embarked and never having to face such an adversary? Really, tactics will work themselves out once a finished codex is released and we have a chance to play around with it.
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Post by: Fateweaver
Or perhaps you don't disembark your warriors from their raiders and shoot rapid fire before assaulting since you can't. Perhaps you deploy, fire 10 pistols and asault. Or maybe you drop some wyches or a 2nd squad of warriors from a raider, shoot twice with each warrior at a squad of marines/bugs/orks/tau/whatever and THEN assault with a different warrior squad that elected NOT TO shoot this turn with it's "rapid fire" weapons.
I think what's happening is people who play DE currently are getting butt-hurt by RUMORS that MIGHT put the IWIN army list in check and require them to play the army as a combined arms force, not just "spam wyches in raiders with some warriors and ravagers and be on your board side on turn 1 asaulting you and win before you can even move". Of course that is the current codex's fault but I'm sure that is what GW is wanting to get away from. Making money aside, there would be no reason for GW to keep the army playing EXACTLY the same way it does now AND releasing a new army book for it.
Every army released in 5th so far does not play similiar to what it did in 4th (even vanilla marines can't do certain builds as well anymore) so why do DE players expect the same.
We know the stats for 3 guns. We don't know how blasters or dark lances will work, we don't know what new squads will be available or how wyches or incubi or talos' or scourges all the REST of the DE codex will work.
I mean, you don't see many marine players qq'ing because there tactical squads can't jump out of a 12" move rhino, shoot (even pistols or just assault weapons) and then assault. If marines want to shoot and then assault after leaving a moving vehicle they need to pay at least 250pts for said vehicle and with the exception of BT and BA they can't spam those (not that you can spam a lot of LR's anyway (even at 2500).
I'm sure Warriors aren't ruined. It appears that Warriors will have one role (if rumors are even close) and that is fire support and they'll do it well. Nurgle Daemon armies, Iyanden Eldar and Tyranids spamming Trygons/Tervigons will HATE facing off against an army where the majority of guns will hurt their big nasties on 4+. I wish my BA tacticals bolters could wound a GUO on a 4+.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I for one relish the idea that GW may be making foot DE completely unplayable, and that DE players will be required to buy and field Raiders for every single unit.
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Post by: Archonate
Good point. I think Mech was always the way they were meant to be played.
Way back when I was just beginning to learn DE, the first thing I learned was that footslogging DE (what most beginning DE players field) get annihilated by pretty much everything, whereas Mech DE are almost unstoppable.
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Post by: Brother SRM
JohnHwangDD wrote:I for one relish the idea that GW may be making foot DE completely unplayable, and that DE players will be required to buy and field Raiders for every single unit.
You mean they don't already?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Foot DE is pretty darn shooty, but the idea of GW forcing Mech on DE, like IG just amuses me to no end.
Is there anything GW won't do to make players buy more stuff?
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Post by: Archonate
JohnHwangDD wrote:Foot DE is pretty darn shooty,
Yeah, but they're also pretty darn slow and squishy, and arguably more vulnerable to failed Ld checks than any other army. I've tried it many ways, only to find success in mech. Is there anything GW won't do to make players buy more stuff?
No. I can picture 6th Edition turning 40k into Apocalypse-sized battles, utilizing the Spearhead vehicle bonuses and requiring the Planetstrike strongholds sold by GW.
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Post by: gregor_xenos
Archonate wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Foot DE is pretty darn shooty,
Yeah, but they're also pretty darn slow and squishy, and arguably more vulnerable to failed Ld checks than any other army. I've tried it many ways, only to find success in mech. Is there anything GW won't do to make players buy more stuff?
No. I can picture 6th Edition turning 40k into Apocalypse-sized battles, utilizing the Spearhead vehicle bonuses and requiring the Planetstrike strongholds sold by GW.
If so.... Warmachine will recieve my loyal attention and GW stuff WILL BE SOLD!! Ive spent too much time bringing three armies up to tourney size just to purchase more. (NEW minis is different tho)
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Post by: Oshova
Definitely, new models are a whole new kettle of fish. But it's when you have to re-buy your army because they just screwed over your current army that annoys me. Luckily not happened to me yet . . . just crossing my fingers that they don't ruin my Dark Eldar. I've been waiting too long for this codex for them to make me buy a whole new Dark Eldar army.
Just excited to see what they can do with new units though =D Hopefully some awesomely cool new models aswell. =D
Oshova
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Post by: ArbitorIan
Luthon1234 wrote:Kurgash wrote:Luthon1234 wrote:ArbitorIan wrote:Sounds reasonable to me. First thing everyone should remember before they start complaining is that part of the reason FOR updates is to shake up the way you play the army.
I'd expect GW, after this long, to make massive changes to how DE play, starting with removing the Radier Spam and Multiple Dark Lance lists that everyone uses.
So GW doesn't want 5th ed DE to be competitive in 5th ed? I guess 6th ed is a lot closer than I thought.
new weapons, new options, new toys that are the 'stupidly good' units of the book so they sell motif, change one method of army play, introduce 3 others at least.
I 'm just saying mech is king now taking away raiders won't help at all unless DE warriors can deepstrike and have jump packs. They want more people to buy DE and if they ever get around to it raiders will still be one of the most bought unit, other than vets who don't want to buy new raiders/ravagers there still gonna be a lot of new people buying raiders in bulk.
Or maybe they'll think of something ELSE. It would be kinda lazy to just say "since everything HAS to be mech now, we must continue this trend with DE".
The point is, DE are going to change a lot, as is to be expected with a 9-year update. I envisage a lot of these threads cropping up - just people complaining that they want a new codex, but they don't want ANY of the current options to change - just new ones added.
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Post by: Oshova
I'm happy to see changes, as long as I don't have to re-buy my army . . . and with 3000 points already, I don't see that having to happen. I would be happy to see some cool changes though. Something to make both me and my opponent think about what to do, as after all that is the point of wargaming. Not to just make an awesome power list that means an auto-win.
Once upon a time there where these things called tactics, but the gamers became bored with thinking, and so the powergamer was born. They read the internet forums, and chatted away to the small hours together. Through the use of mathhammer, and a little intelligence they came up with the way of powergaming. The aim being to have won the game before it even begins. Now the gamers have had to find a way to eradicate this ethos of play. Sadly their only hope is GW . . . so yeah, get ready for more powergaming =p
Oshova
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Post by: Saldiven
JohnHwangDD wrote:If everything is S2 Poison (4+), seems like auto-loss vs Mech.
You're forgetting the rumored S6 12" range melta lance gun.
Also, it's highly unlikely that dark lances will be gone. I'm sure that there will be more weapons available to the army than the three mentioned in the OP.
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Post by: timetowaste85
If the poison 4+ is a guaruntee, I KNOW that I'll have to run Fateweaver in my daemon army every game against DE...or watch my models crawl around on their bellies looking for every cover save they can find-amusing image of the day, bloodletters climbing off of their juggernauts to crawl in the dirt next to each other
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Post by: Snord
I don't think it's worth getting into a lather about these BoLS 'articles'. BoLS put these out to generate hype. They went mad in the run-up to the BA codex release, and then had multiple follow-up articles within days of its release (as if more than a handful of players had had time to do any more than read the codex). I don't think these rumoured stats have any special credibility.
Just one point on the question of whether splinter rifles would be overpowered if they are Assault weapons - Ork shootas are Assault 2, and haven't unbalanced the game despite the fact that Orks can shoot and assault (and have Fast, open-topped transports).
And Grot blastas aren't pistols, they're Assault 1 guns.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Tailgunner wrote:I don't think it's worth getting into a lather about these BoLS 'articles'. BoLS put these out to generate hype. They went mad in the run-up to the BA codex release, and then had multiple follow-up articles within days of its release (as if more than a handful of players had had time to do any more than read the codex). I don't think these rumoured stats have any special credibility.
Just one point on the question of whether splinter rifles would be overpowered if they are Assault weapons - Ork shootas are Assault 2, and haven't unbalanced the game despite the fact that Orks can shoot and assault (and have Fast, open-topped transports).
And Grot blastas aren't pistols, they're Assault 1 guns.
Yea its hard to trust anything kind of rumor lately regardless of who posted what. Best we could do is just speculate on what information we've been given and be totally surprised when none of the rumors were true.
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Post by: Daggermaw
Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.
I could easily see them being rapid fire, with a DE character or psychic ability or something that makes them relentless.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Saldiven wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:If everything is S2 Poison (4+), seems like auto-loss vs Mech.
You're forgetting the rumored S6 12" range melta lance gun.
Also, it's highly unlikely that dark lances will be gone. I'm sure that there will be more weapons available to the army than the three mentioned in the OP.
You seem to forget that the lance melta gun was part of the April Fool's hoax on Warseer.
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Post by: schadenfreude
12" rapid fire is no loss for raider squads. The raider can still move 12", and because it's fast and open topped everybody inside can still rapid fire 12" away. The loss of a 24" static long range shot would hurt a foot army, but it's no loss for a mechanized raider army. As far as a mechanized army is concerned why pay points for something you never use like static 13-24" single shots.
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Post by: Surtur
Why does everyone here think they need relentless? If that were so, there would be no point in making it heavy. And having 6 shots then assaulting is a bit much don't you think?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Relentless?
Slow and Purposeful!
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Post by: yakface
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.
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Post by: Skarboy
yakface wrote:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
I have no word yet on whether the weapons have an actual Strength value or are just Strength 'X' (or if the listed AP values are wrong), but if I find out I'll let you know.
Now these I can live with, especially if the carbines are available to raider squads.
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Post by: yakface
Okay,
I've found out that the weapons are indeed all AP5 and count as having a Strength of X...so there is never a possibility of getting the poison re-roll with these weapons.
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Post by: number9dream
schadenfreude wrote: 12" rapid fire is no loss for raider squads. The raider can still move 12", and because it's fast and open topped everybody inside can still rapid fire 12" away. The loss of a 24" static long range shot would hurt a foot army, but it's no loss for a mechanized raider army. As far as a mechanized army is concerned why pay points for something you never use like static 13-24" single shots.
Unless I've seriously misunderstood the rules, fast/open topped vehicles still do not enable embarked units to shoot if it moved >6" Oo?
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Poisoned what? 5+? 4+?
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Post by: Saldiven
schadenfreude wrote: 12" rapid fire is no loss for raider squads. The raider can still move 12", and because it's fast and open topped everybody inside can still rapid fire 12" away. The loss of a 24" static long range shot would hurt a foot army, but it's no loss for a mechanized raider army. As far as a mechanized army is concerned why pay points for something you never use like static 13-24" single shots.
Unfortunately, you are mistaken. The rules for embarked units on vehicles state that they may fire from the vehicle if it has been stationary or moved under 6". Fast vehicles allow the vehicle itself to fire if the vehicle has moved 6-12". There is nothing in the rules that allow the unit embarked upon a fast vehicle to fire while still embarked if the vehicle moved 6-12". The unit could, of course, disembark and fire after a fast vehicle moved 12", but not stay embarked and fire from the same vehicle.
RB page 70 wrote:FAST VEHICLES FIRING
Fast vehicles may move and fire more effectively than other types of vehicles.
Fast vehicles that move at combat speed may fire all of their weapons, just like other types of vehicles that have remained stationary (including ordnance barrage weapons, which cannot usually be fired on the move).
Fast vehicles that move at cruising speed may fire a single weapon (plus all defensive weapons, just like other types of vehicle moving at combat speed).
Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons.
RB page 66 wrote: Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn.
There is nothing in the fast or open topped vehicle rules that give any greater allowance for the embarked unit to fire, unfortunately.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yakface wrote:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.
I actually really like these states for the splinter weaponry. If the carbines are allowed on Raider Squads, it could make for some serious drive-by action. The imagery is plenty interesting, too.
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Post by: Rymafyr
yakface wrote:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.
I can believe this, not because it comes from yakface (who is credible) but it's believable stats. STR X is what does it for me since STR is irrelevant for a poisoned weapon. I'm still curious as to what other special weapons Troops will have available to them.
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Post by: Erasoketa
yakface wrote:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.
This is quite better, but I would ask, as someone before me, Poisoned@what roll? And there is another thing I don't understand very much. The Splinter Cannon being Assault 4 Heavy 6. Does it mean that the player can choose, or just maybe that there are 2 contradicting rumours and it's not sure? Anyway, it's cool seeing their range improved. If that stats are true, they will be much more popular, as usually Dark Lances are favoured over Splinter Cannons.
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Post by: Saldiven
To use precedence for the splinter cannon, it would be determined by whether or not the models move.
If you're stationary, it fires as heavy 6; if you move, it fires as assault 4.
I believe there's a noise marine weapon that works the same way, correct?
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Post by: Rymafyr
Erasoketa wrote:
This is quite better, but I would ask, as someone before me, Poisoned@what roll? And there is another thing I don't understand very much. The Splinter Cannon being Assault 4 Heavy 6. Does it mean that the player can choose, or just maybe that there are 2 contradicting rumours and it's not sure? Anyway, it's cool seeing their range improved. If that stats are true, they will be much more popular, as usually Dark Lances are favoured over Splinter Cannons.
Unless it's changed, the rumor said poisoned on a 4+. I'm assuming the player has the choice of using the cannon as either Assault or Heavy. This is not unfamiliar to DE since the current Disintegrators for Raiders/Ravagers have a similiar option. Dark Lances are usually only taken in Warrior Sqds; for 100 pts you can get 2 DL's in a 10 man sqd. I usually take 2 squads like this just to provide cover fire and support while the Raiders zip across the field. Raider squads usually take the Cannon.
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Post by: Irdiumstern
Well, these stats look much more realistic. The Splinter Carbine seems quite a bit more powerful though, but I guess we will see what unit ends up carrying them.
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Post by: Erasoketa
Rymafyr wrote:Unless it's changed, the rumor said poisoned on a 4+. I'm assuming the player has the choice of using the cannon as either Assault or Heavy. This is not unfamiliar to DE since the current Disintegrators for Raiders/Ravagers have a similiar option. Dark Lances are usually only taken in Warrior Sqds; for 100 pts you can get 2 DL's in a 10 man sqd. I usually take 2 squads like this just to provide cover fire and support while the Raiders zip across the field. Raider squads usually take the Cannon.
Well, I usually take 1 Dark Lance in Raider squads xD Automatically Appended Next Post: Irdiumstern wrote:Well, these stats look much more realistic. The Splinter Carbine seems quite a bit more powerful though, but I guess we will see what unit ends up carrying them.
Yeah, I don't think the Carbine will be an option for all the minis in a squad. 30 poisoned shots and then an assault could be too much xDD
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Post by: Archonate
Thank you yakface for this glorious bit of actual news.
I'm kinda bummed that Splinter Rifles are still Rapid Fire. I wonder to what degree we'll be forced to use them... Seems like they could just get rid of the Carbine and make the Rifles Assault weapons. But again, I don't know how the weapon distribution will pan out.
I do, however, LOVE the extra 12" of range they gave to the Splinter Cannon, as well as the option for a higher rate of fire when stationary. It'll be nice to see that signature DE weapon become used once again.
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Post by: yakface
For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.
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Post by: Erasoketa
yakface wrote:
For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.
As we say in Spain: if it's a dog, it bites me xDDD
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Post by: Saldiven
Erasoketa wrote:yakface wrote:
For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.
As we say in Spain: if it's a dog, it bites me xDDD
Haha...around here, we say, "If it were a snake, it would have bit me." 
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Post by: Orion_44
Thank you all for much hilarity as I read the completely insane reactions to a rumor. I like the latest news with those revised stats, but yeah, I will wait and see!
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Post by: Oshova
Tbh some of the reactions were a bit OTT, but for the most part they were quite understandable. I'm still confused by an assault army having mainly rapid fire weapons . . . it just makes no sense . . . But then this is GW =p
Oshova
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Post by: Skarboy
Oshova wrote:Tbh some of the reactions were a bit OTT, but for the most part they were quite understandable. I'm still confused by an assault army having mainly rapid fire weapons . . . it just makes no sense . . . But then this is GW =p
Oshova
Well, remember, there might be more than one actual viable build this time around. Plus there's always the reliable foot warrior squad with Dark Lances and Splinter Rifles to park on objectives or snipe from cover. The main objection was over the ridiculous speculation of a rapid fire weapon with 12" max range, which would have been useless.
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Post by: Defiler
Saldiven wrote:To use precedence for the splinter cannon, it would be determined by whether or not the models move.
If you're stationary, it fires as heavy 6; if you move, it fires as assault 4.
I believe there's a noise marine weapon that works the same way, correct?
Correct.
The sonic blaster is assault 2 OR heavy 3 depending on the movement state of the unit.
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Post by: kanelom
now these new stats are what may have just tipped me into a DE buying frenzy on release. Please don't fudge the models GW. please?!
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
I don't think you have to worry about them being fudged. From the shots I've seen floating, looks like they will be pretty cool.
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Post by: Skarboy
As far as the models go, it'll be up to your personal preference only. With Jes Goodwin involved, you can guarantee they will be high quality sculpts; it really just matters if they appeal to YOU.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Uriels_Flame wrote:I don't think you have to worry about them being fudged. From the shots I've seen floating, looks like they will be pretty cool.
You know I really hate comments like these. Its like your dangling a carrot in front of me, if you've seen them post some damn pics or don't say anything!
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Post by: focusedfire
Look in the big rule book pg 174. The really cool dark eldar guardian concept on the page. Aside from the necron faced helm you might have a possible concept of the direction of the art.
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
It doesn't matter - as you will buy them when they come out.
And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...
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Post by: Luthon1234
Uriels_Flame wrote:It doesn't matter - as you will buy them when they come out.
And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...
Well yea I'm gonna buy them I'm a huge DE fan I just want some mast- I mean a background for my desktop yea.
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Post by: focusedfire
Uriels_Flame wrote:
And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...
GW sales are down more than what the current state of the economy would indicate. The boycott over price hikes is having an effect on sales, but that doesn't mean that it is working.
The Board of Directors would have to stop listening to the magnifcents of GW's own hype and start listening to the chorus of complaints from their customers before the boycot could be said to have worked.
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Post by: Oshova
Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p
Oshova
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Post by: Captain Avatar
Oshova-GW's sales are not just all hunky dory at this time. Their sales have taken a major hit and this is happening just as the company has invested heavily into restructuring. GW's sales tanking is really hitting the company hard.
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Post by: focusedfire
Oshova wrote:Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p
Oshova
Except that the older players are not bringng newer players in as much. Word of mouth still plays a huge roll in sales ans those in the hobby right bow are not recommending it as much as they used to. I feel that this is part why GW's sales are lagging.
Honestly, GW is showing a lot of the signs of a corporation that is getting itself in trouble.
1) Poor money management(Retail outlets in overpriced mall venues? Constant unexplained price hikes that do not correspond with production or shipping costs)
2) Over expansion(Houston getting 4 new stores in a year?)
3) Cutbacks that lead to a lack of customer service(Getting rid of Questions help lines/E-mailed Questions never get answered, and just an overall failure to support their product with updates to problems in a timely manner)
4) Inflexible/unresponsive business model that fails to modernize.(Failing to capitalize on the modern phenomona of social networking, instead relying upon their fan base to do this for them, near archaic release schedule)
I do agree with you that the boycot should maybe become more vocal  and these forums are a great way to det the word out. 
BTW, "If" GW does get itself in deep financial trouble, I hope that they hang around at least long enough to update all of the codices.
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Post by: frozenwastes
Oshova wrote:Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p
Actually GW's sales are not that hot right now. Go take a look at their financial reports over the last few years. GW has had to take a slash and burn policy when it comes to closing stores and laying off staff to get their costs down enough just to not be losing money.
The real issue is declining unit sales. If they take in 100 million pounds, hike the prices up 10% and then take in 100 million pounds, the number of actual sales of individual products has just dropped around 9%.
GW is currently (barely) profitable. They've come up with this new one-man micro hobby centre idea and are going to give that a try in places where their current model has failed. They're currently doing their best to get as much royalty income from video games and other licensing projects as they possibly can. I believe in their last couple of reporting periods GW was only profitable because of these royalties. They're actually failing to be profitable at their core business of selling miniatures.
GW is doing a very typical thing for companies that are failing at their core business. They first blame their expenses and slash jobs and close locations. Heck, they closed the central distribution centre for GW Canada and restructured it into GW US. Then they're trying to maximize revenue from new sources. There's no sign of any real change on how they go about their core business. And if the reliance on royalty revenue works, there won't be for quite some time. It's going to take real pain for GW to change their overall approach and as long as they can fire people to reduce expenses and bring in video game money to cover their losses, they'll avoid feeling that pain for as long as possible.
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Post by: Oshova
Just you wait until the Ultramarine Movie comes out. Kids will be flocking into GWS to buy these awesome looking superhumans! Just like with LoTR.
Oshova
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Post by: Brother SRM
Oshova wrote:Just you wait until the Ultramarine Movie comes out. Kids will be flocking into GWS to buy these awesome looking superhumans! Just like with LoTR.
Oshova
Except that the Ultramarines movie has considerably lower budget and distribution, what with it being straight-to-DVD and not a well publicized worldwide theatrical release.
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Post by: metallifan
Not to mention, Despite people insisting PG-13, we have no rating yet. It could very well be a movie for the older veteran fans that've been asking for it for close to a decade and a half.
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Post by: kanelom
off topic much?
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Post by: focusedfire
kanelom wrote:off topic much?
Yes and no.
While not necessarily on-topic the conversation s touching upon factors that could affect the DE release and how GW might handle such.
There are a lot of factors that could affect the DE release and if the DE perform poorly it will only serve to re-inforce a false business paradigm that GW has set up and currently operates under. GW's history, the current economy, and the boycot is cause for further concern. Here is how I see it:
Problem: It has taken GW an overly long time to update the DE.
GW's excuse: DE were an army that never sold well.
Problem: GW never gave the DE a proper model launch.
GW's excuse: They weren't SM's. SM's are GW's best sellers so SM"s get the lions share of the promotional buget.
Problem: GW's business model is an established path to failure. That by singling out a product that is already known and giving that product the lions share of promotional attention, GW has established a corporate culture that blatantly fails to promote or provide a proper launch window for their other armies.(*Cough, 'Nids codex not available for previewing,*Cough, *cough, bs, *cough)
GW's excuse: The current economy has affected peoples ability to have enough money to buy our product. Because of this, sales are down and because sales are down GW decides to:
a) reduce the promotional budget for non- SM/non-Imperium model lines
b) Fail to provide enough or, in some cases, any of the newer unit models
c) Stepped-up the release schedule in a manner that crowds the non- SM models into a shortened sales window between two obviously rushed SM codices
d) Raise prices by as much as 20%
Problem: The customer reaction to these decisions are:
a) Non- SM players say, WT(Heck)?, why don't we get a preview? Well at least we got a codex.(Existing gripes within the GW customer base turn into a pervasive low grumble.)
b) Both SM and Xenos players say, WTH!, How do you expect us to buy a product that you didn't make enough of* or not make at all?(Grumbling within customer base gets louder)
c) Both SM and non- SM players say, WTF! Why are they releasing another codex that has poorly written rules and is missing models?(More customers join in with the grubling)
d) Most Players/Customers say WTF!!! You raise prices at a time when we have no money? I'm sick of this, I think we should boycot (Turns to friends and asks, Could you teach me how to play War Machines?)
*Hint to GW-this means they sold better than expected, maybe you ought to make some of these non-sm models
GW's attitude towards these complaints:
a) Be happy you got a codex xenos scum
b) The lack of sales on the armies that we failed to make models for shows that we were right in not making all of the models.
c) At least you finally got your codex, be happy you got it at all. While GW has an excellent customer service department for their models, if you have a complaint about the quality of our rule books, tough.
d) Bad economy? Unhappy customer base? Recent unjustified price increase? No release budget? Sounds like its time to release the armies that we treat like a red headed step child.
Concern/complaint- This last attitude ( d)bad economy, unhappy customer base, ect, ect,....)Is cause for concern when contemplating a DE release and GW's history, or lack there of, with promoting this army.
The question is whether GW's current path of relying upon DoW royalties and pushing the developement SM-centric movies/ FPS video games will help or hurt the table top game/Hobby.
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Post by: focusedfire
Defiler wrote:focusedfire wrote:kanelom wrote:off topic much?
tl;dr
Lurk moar
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Post by: Newt-Of-Death
Still no idea's when the new codex is comming out then?
Best I heard was 'After the Fantasy rule book', and worst was February :(
I dont care about the stats, just make me some plastic talos!!!
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Post by: Fateweaver
Lifted from Warseer.
Originally Posted by Jared van Kell
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Released in the winter 2010/ Spring 2011
October/November this year.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Phill Kelly writing Codex/ Jess Goodwin doing models. This is a GREATcombo!!!
Yep, the reasons its taken so long is that GW wanted to ensure that the range would actually sell and attract enough attention to warrant their return. Jes Goodwin now freed from completing the Spacemarine, Chaos Spacemarine and Chaos Daemon ranges has focused his entire attention on this range. Phil Kelly personally requested this codex.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Harlequins and Avatars for Dark Eldar
Harlequins most definately yes, Avatar no, it remains the remit of their craftworld brethren.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Many Poison Weapons
The rumour is correct on this. Splinter weapons are S2 poisoned weapons. Some of the heavier splinter weapons cause pinning as well.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Talos getting armor value
Armour 13 Front. 11 Side and 10 Rear from my sources. It will be more akin to a dreadnought than a wraithlord now. It has S10 attacks and its Heavy Splinter Cannon can dish out an insane amount of firepower.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
up to 3 new skimmers
There is a lot of secrecy regarding these. They are still being worked on last I heard.
Originally Posted by ericismyname
New special characters
Two unit upgrades, one similar to pask for the skimmers. I've heard whispers about one used as a prisoner transport that is damaging to the morale of the enemy within 12".
Originally Posted by ericismyname
No word on anything getting dropped except Kruellagh.
According to fluff I've heard, Kruellagh is now dead.
On a side note the Mandrakes are extremely nasty apparently getting Infiltrate, Stealth, Move through cover and Poisoned attacks to represent their consumate skills as assassins/scouts and as to be expected they are rather nice in combat as well. They will have a unit upgrade in the form of the Decapitator who has the Instant Death USR and is a nightmare for enemy characters and squad leaders.
JvK
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Post by: Luthon1234
Not that I really cared or used kreullagh, but I hope they write some good fluff on how she died.
Hmm a pask like upgraded for skimmers... sounds interesting I wonder how they will pull it off.
Prisoner transport: YES YES YES! Now I have a reason to make a slave barge!
Nice that we are getting some more information on the talos. At first I didn't like the fact that it was going to be armored but now its kinda growing on me I hope it also gets a new model.
Sucks that we aren't getting an avatar I had a good conversion idea for one using the deciever and some other bits.
Why is it still winter 2010/spring 2011 when it says October/November? Are those most likely release dates and spring if they aren't released?
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Post by: Fateweaver
The non colored were speculations, the colored posts are confirmed (or as confirmed as rumors can get), ie they are most up to date.
Talos IS getting a new model. EVERYTHING in the range is, not one model, that will be included in the 'dex, will be untouched by Jes Goodwin.
So we basically have to forget the current DE range ever existed because in October/November every DE that will be in the new codex will have a new model. End of.
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Post by: kanelom
Yessss.
Slave barge = pure win IF it doesn't look like the current collectors slave models.
Have yet to hear about the jetbikes though, the whole aspect of a pure jetbike DE armour is too good of an idea.
And please oh please dont nerf combat drugs into abstractness.
That is all Santa
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Post by: TheOniTsuki
I imagine they did this one to make them fit more with the eldar. Another is if the range was 24 with poison and everyone in the unit had one that would be very powerful and would bring nids to there knees. This way they are a bit more balanced. I am sure they will have a few eapons up grades but imagine rolling up in a transport and then dropping 20 shots into a fex how brutal that is and how brutal that could be if it could be done across the board.
I can see them turning out the be beautifuly made glass cannons.
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Post by: Defiler
Well, 20 warrior poison +4 shots would be like 1-2 wounds after saves.
20 shots, BS 4 = 13 hits, 6.5 wounds versus a 3+ save is 2 wounds.
For 180 points + Transport, I don't think that's crazy. However, I think the rumors of rapid fire 12 are false.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
Fateweaver wrote:Lifted from Warseer.
Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?
Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.
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Post by: Erasoketa
Armour value for Talos is ok for me but: 13 front? we were told that the highest AV for DE army would be 11. Maybe it was just for the skimmers and regular vehicles?
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Post by: Samus666
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?
Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.
Because this is GW we're talking about.
White Dwarf and the GW website will probably give an official announcement of the DE release, and a sneak peek at the new minis, about a month after they're released.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Howard A Treesong wrote:Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?
Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.
Of course, DE would get Harlequins - that's a given. If GW are smart, they'll add Exodites and Crones as Elites, too. The metal Talos has aged poorly, and is horrible to build - plastic is a given. More Skimmers are needed, specifically Landspeeder / Vyper equivalents.
Is Christmas a hard date now? Published somewhere?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Most people now say October/November, with November currently more likely (October maybe Khemri or more High Elves).
And as it is a major release, GW will deny everything until the end so that as few potential customers as possible will buy it, the usual GW panic facing potential huge profits. 
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Post by: UltraPrime
Kroothawk wrote:And as it is a major release, GW will deny everything until the end so that as few potential customers as possible will buy it, the usual GW panic facing potential huge profits.
The more I hear this line of reasoning, the more I laugh. You people take it as a personal insult. I'm sure if GW were suffering, they would change the way they do things.
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Post by: Fateweaver
Nerd rage is pretty powerful.
The way some people act over GW not revealing everything 12 months out reminds me of a [completely inappropriate analogy! Please remember the rules of Dakka Dakka.]
It's nothing personal people. Gamesday MIGHT reveal a lot more, or maybe nothing but if they make an official announcement in their Incoming article about a release date than who cares what is coming out, what the army plays like. Plenty will buy it (including me).
I'm betting money on August being the official Incoming announcement. That's good enough for me. Knowing more than that is just icing on the cake.
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Post by: Archonate
Nobody is angry or upset. It's just common sense that if you want to maximize your quantity of customers, you generate hype (via pictures, short videos, and tidbits of information) and give it sufficient time to spread throughout the fan base. It's not rocket science. And it's certainly nothing over which to get upset with people for pointing out.
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Post by: Fateweaver
It's also not something that armchair CEO's need to spew every 2 weeks in regards to GW's business model.
It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago. It might not make the most sense (then again the way people carry on about it leads me to believe they aren't happy with the 90-120 second movie trailers shown in theatres either).
With the exception of Space Hulk GW has been pretty good at dropping the bomb 90-120 days out. So 3 months out people KNOW what army or miniature is coming out next.
I'm sure August "Incoming" will make DE official. If it does than I don't see what the big deal is. You know they'll be coming and what month and maybe even know what 1 or 2 of the models will look like. GD in September will probably reveal as much as GW will allow (or should I say Jess? Afterall, he was irked because somebody who didn't give a gak about how he might feel leaked pics of his harlies prior to when HE wanted them revealed) so by September anyone wanting to start DE should know enough to know what to save up for, how it's going to operate within the context of the army (for those who's only goal in life is to min/max and WAAC).
I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked.
Good sources point to November meaning August will probably when GW makes it official. Even with the tight lips around GW these days I have a feeling by September a lot (or a good amount) of the codex will be leaked. As usual it'll all be rumors until the official release of the DE codex but really, do people really get that upset that they can't know what the next army in line for May of 2012 is or even for January of 2011.
4 months, IMO, is plenty of time to save up and plan an army. Impulse buys are what makes manufacturers money, NOT planned buys. There is a reason most grocers, in the states at least, make sure pop and candy are up near the checkouts. People don't normally plan to buy candy. They just see it there conveniently close to where they have to pay for their groceries and think "hmm, chocolate craving. I had better tide thee over."
So it's not rocket science to understand that GW probably relies more on impulse buys than people planning months out ahead. If impulse buys make them more money than any other method than their business plan works, as befits their attitude.
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Post by: Samus666
Fateweaver wrote:It's also not something that armchair CEO's need to spew every 2 weeks in regards to GW's business model.
It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago. It might not make the most sense (then again the way people carry on about it leads me to believe they aren't happy with the 90-120 second movie trailers shown in theatres either).
With the exception of Space Hulk GW has been pretty good at dropping the bomb 90-120 days out. So 3 months out people KNOW what army or miniature is coming out next...
I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked...
As usual it'll all be rumors until the official release of the DE codex but really, do people really get that upset that they can't know what the next army in line for May of 2012 is or even for January of 2011.
Gee, I think most of us were just taking the mickey, ya know? Having a laugh? The GW secrecy is pretty much a running joke by now. We make fun because it seems like a daft way to do business and so it's an easy subject to get laughs out of.
Anyhoo, back on topic, I'm really looking forward to Dark Eldar. They'll definitely be my next army.
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Post by: kanelom
I dno does anyone else have an idea of what they want, and then get the Incoming!, check the advance order section, and slowly slowly start wanting more and more the more you see the models and come back to check?
Maybe thats just me.. but that just cost me a Valk + Vindicare... (and they're OLD!) and provided DE Jetbikes are nasty in CC/well modelled it'll probably cost me a whole lot more.
Having people's 10 year wait dangled in front of them for three months in the advance order section is def going to rack up the Xmas list.
As for why no news yet, WFB new edition right? They've got to plug that first. Wait til after.
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Post by: FacelessMage
You all realise that because DE has a strong tentative release date the DE manufacturing plant is somehow going to explode and be destroyed in a fire. Then the poor DE players will ahve to wait another 10 years for new molds to be made starting the cycle again.
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Post by: JOHIRA
Fateweaver wrote:It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago.
That's a great accounting method. "This particular practice must work! Because our company is still going! And so logically because our company is still going now, we are guaranteed to still be going indefinitely in the future!" Think of how much investment you could secure with a sales pitch like that!
It's not like a company would ever try to hide their failed policies by just raising prices on the same-quality or sometimes even inferior products and blaming this increase in cost on fluctuations in the cost of tin. Nobody is crazy enough to try that!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Their secrecy is a running joke, and utterly unnecessary. It was exemplified in no greater fashion than the Mystery Box/Space Hulk debacle, a string of stupid attempts to hide the truth, including outright lying and threats against staff, to keep something coming out in September secret when we had known about it since February (as that's when the first reports started showing up). That said I don't think GW is being intentionally secretive about DE in any specific way. You want to show needless secrecy - previews of the new Warhammer that accomplish nothing, a failure to use their website as an effective tool to convey the changes within the rules, leaving thousands of players in the dark as to what's about to happen, limiting previews within GW stores (but that's more of a manager thing and less of a GW corporate thing, so you can't exactly blame GW for that), and the continued amateurish use of their web presence as a whole. Or telling us that Daemons are coming without showing them (why bother?) or that a new Fantasy Starter Box is coming without telling us what it is (why bother?). Are they keeping Dark Eldar a secret? No. They haven't got to the 'window' in their release schedule where they start telling us that they're keeping a secret. Fateweaver wrote:I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked.
Fanboi. What? You asked me to...
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Post by: Fateweaver
As I said, Jes might want GW to keep most or all of his minis a secret until he is ready to reveal them.
If it's a personal request people should respect that. I know he was miffed about the Harlequins being leaked weeks before he wanted them to be shown so it wouldn't surprise me if he expects the same from his colleagues and fans for DE.
If that is his wish (and we'll never know unless he makes an announcement himself regarding his wishes) people should respect that wish and not get all worked up if "OMG GW WON'T SHOW US WHAT ANY NEW MINIS LOOK LIKE BECAUSE THE DESIGNER IS BEING A TOOL".
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Post by: narceron
I expected all the metal models to get new plastic sets, with rules meant to sell....but the entire range is getting redone?
I am very excited. I had to sell off my Dark eldar after I kept breaking them every time I took them anywhere, I just hope the new models are a little more sturdy,
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Post by: Bhindi Bhaji
narceron wrote:I expected all the metal models to get new plastic sets
well they're all new at least but some are still metal
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Post by: Fateweaver
I'm guessing the SC will be metal, maybe even certain units but I'd have to believe 95% of the range is plastic.
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Post by: Whatever1
Archonate wrote:Nobody is angry or upset. It's just common sense that if you want to maximize your quantity of customers, you generate hype (via pictures, short videos, and tidbits of information) and give it sufficient time to spread throughout the fan base. It's not rocket science. And it's certainly nothing over which to get upset with people for pointing out.
The issue is that GW has 16 competing product lines(ie:armies) within one main product line( 40k). When you leak a release date for a new army line LONG ahead of time,then fans of that army will start saving money back for new mini's. While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies. Hype for one army by the nature of their buisness model drives down sales for all the other armies,and as such doesn't really make money as many people would like to think. It's not like the video game console wars,where your product's pre-launch hype is taking dollars away from your competitors. The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release. Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,then all of a sudden loses their job and has to use that money to pay bills and GW loses. Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC. Then you also have the issue of supply problems at launch when you've got people saving back mass amount of cash to blow on DE the second they drop.
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Post by: Fateweaver
Now now, that post makes too much sense and so therefore you will be called a fanboi because GW isn't revealing anything beyond 3 months out and you are defending them.
I, for one (and several many even though the vocal minority seem to think differently) think 3-4 months official notice is enough. Is it a bonus to see new minis 4 months out? Sure it is. Is it necessary to keep ME interested in buying? Nope. Once I've decided on an army that I know I want to buy I don't need to see pics of minis or know 90% of the rulebook to keep my interest in it. It's an army I'll buy, regardless of rules or minis.
It wouldn't matter if GW didn't make anything official until 24 hours before they put the new DE codex and minis up online. The army will still sell like mad, people will buy it and of course this being dakka people will bitch about X unit sucking hard even before they try said unit out in MORE THAN 1 game and GW will still keep making money.
Honestly, as soon as GW makes DE official in it's Incoming newsletter they don't HAVE to do anything more with them until launch day and they'll still be a huge success. It's only theory that months worth of hype will add to sales.
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Post by: Samus_aran115
metallifan wrote:Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.
They could very well have that special rule...what's it called? I forgot.
The one where you can fire rapid fire weapons and assault....Hmm.
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Post by: Neconilis
Samus_aran115 wrote:metallifan wrote:Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.
They could very well have that special rule...what's it called? I forgot.
The one where you can fire rapid fire weapons and assault....Hmm.
Relentless
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Post by: Fateweaver
Relentless.
Or perhaps Phil doesn't see NOT being able to assault after unleashing 20+ poisoned weapon shots that hit on 3's and always wound on 4's no matter what they shoot at as being that big of an issue.
Warriors are like guardians. They are there for fire support, not front line assault. If people want to assault out of a raider that is what wyches and anything else CC oriented would be for.
I don't see CE players whining because the Serpent isn't open topped therefore bladestorming DA's have to sit in the open for a turn after having unleashed 30+ shots at a unit. Oh noes. Guess that means DA's in Serpents are junk. Er wait, they aren't. Funny that.
Damn, the DE might no longer be a one trick pony. Boohoo.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Whatever1 wrote:While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies.
That's absurd and honestly cannot be a real concern of GW's. Not previewing upcoming models (and I'm not even talking about giving a firm release date) doesn't help drive sales in other lines.
Whatever1 wrote:The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release.
And, once again, previewing upcoming mini releases doesn't require a set date. It is quite easy to show off new models without setting exactly when they're going to be out. There's a reason the phrase " Coming soon..." exists. Marrying yourself to a release date only leads to problems when you cannot make that release date, which is why it's easier to preview the items in question without being specific about when exactly they're coming out. That way you can build excitement without immediate expectations.
GW does none of this though, instead taking the path of not letting us know anything until the last possible second. With a release as big (and risky) as Dark Eldar, this is a glaringly huge mistake.
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Post by: Whatever1
H.B.M.C. wrote:Whatever1 wrote:While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies.
That's absurd and honestly cannot be a real concern of GW's. Not previewing upcoming models (and I'm not even talking about giving a firm release date) doesn't help drive sales in other lines.
Whatever1 wrote:The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release.
And, once again, previewing upcoming mini releases doesn't require a set date. It is quite easy to show off new models without setting exactly when they're going to be out. There's a reason the phrase " Coming soon..." exists. Marrying yourself to a release date only leads to problems when you cannot make that release date, which is why it's easier to preview the items in question without being specific about when exactly they're coming out. That way you can build excitement without immediate expectations.
GW does none of this though, instead taking the path of not letting us know anything until the last possible second. With a release as big (and risky) as Dark Eldar, this is a glaringly huge mistake.
It doesn't drive sales of other lines up. Hype/previews drive the sales of other lines DOWN. For example,I play with a guy that was recently getting back into 40k. He decided he was going to do SW. Then,the new BA 'dex gets confirmed,he used to play BA,so he decides to just wait a few months for BA to come out instead of building SW and then turning around and doing BA. He was also planning to do 'nids as a second army,but with all the rumors circling around a new DE release,he's now waiting on them.
Previewing mini releases doesn't require a release date,but it IMPLIES strongly that those mini's will be coming soon. You get backlash when you preview a mini,but then 9 months later,it's not out yet. The other issue with previewing mini's without a release date is that your customer support gets inundated with questions regarding a release date.
A couple of months notice is last possible second? How much of a lead time do you honestly expect? Don't get me wrong,I would LOVE to have a detailed outline of everything that GW is putting out for the next 2 years,but it really isn't realistic. As for DE,at the rate GW is redoing armies,their redux basically buys them at LEAST another 5 year life cycle. The success/failure of their reboot isn't going to be determined in the first couple weeks of release. Besides,which, DE have had 10 years of internet hype/rumors to drum up interest.
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Post by: narceron
Wait, does this mean DE will get new dark eldar warriors? What about the millions of 3rd edition starter DE that are in everyone's bitz box. I can't open up a container of 40k stuff without 10 falling out.
I hate to be the minority, but I love the dark eldar warrior models, they are neat and I think fit the character of the army, I hope the new sculpts don't stray too far from that.
And HBMC, I don't think Whatever1's opinion was absurd..GW loves money in the now, not in the future, just like everyone else. If you consider the recent recession caused a lot of consumers to put off big purchases, the wait and see mentality has some validity to it. I can see your point, that while I'm saving, I wont' be starving GW, because like most of us, I'll still buy my smack...lol.
Honestly, with all the GW hate going around, its hilarious so many people still buy their stuff year after year. GW makes me crazy with their codex escalation, but I like the hobby more than the game, luckily. The hobby will be increased by new models, new rules, new opportunities, I'm not sure the game will benefit from DE's new codex.
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Post by: Fateweaver
Nothing will be the same or recycled narceron so your warriors will be very "unique" (read: outdated) come november.
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Post by: Defiler
narceron wrote:
I hate to be the minority, but I love the dark eldar warrior models, they are neat and I think fit the character of the army, I hope the new sculpts don't stray too far from that.
Well I like them as well, I mean I have thousands of dollars of Dark eldar and I've grown attached to my warriors and my converted corsair/warriors.
But I think everyone needs change at this point. Even the old farts who will cling onto their nostalgic DE models will eventually come around to the new ones, even if it's after much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I'm looking forward to replacing my Raiders, warriors, Wyches, and adding to my Reavers and I've already sunk a lot of money into the army.
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Post by: Railguns
I think the older warrior models were a good concept, but the execution was lacking. DBZ hair guy is the worst offender of the bunch, but the heads were large-to-comical and the spike sprue was a touch silly as well. Posing could have been improved. If the new warriors resemble the more recent art they should keep enough of the classic look that DE vets won't have any real complaints to make while updating the range for the current scale and relative detail level.
And I don't see how preventing DE warriors from charging into assault after firing for a turn is going to turn the game on its head. Once in combat they're going to hit like pissed off guardsmen at worst. One big turn of shooting and an assault to hopefully finish off survivors should be a fine risk vs reward tactic. Get stuck in to try to stack on more damage, or keep your mobility but hope you aren't blasted off the board with counterfire?
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Post by: megatrons2nd
Whatever1 wrote:
The issue is that GW has 16 competing product lines(ie:armies) within one main product line(40k). When you leak a release date for a new army line LONG ahead of time,then fans of that army will start saving money back for new mini's. While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies. Hype for one army by the nature of their buisness model drives down sales for all the other armies,and as such doesn't really make money as many people would like to think. It's not like the video game console wars,where your product's pre-launch hype is taking dollars away from your competitors.
The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release. Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,then all of a sudden loses their job and has to use that money to pay bills and GW loses. Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC. Then you also have the issue of supply problems at launch when you've got people saving back mass amount of cash to blow on DE the second they drop.
Fateweaver wrote:Now now, that post makes too much sense and so therefore you will be called a fanboi because GW isn't revealing anything beyond 3 months out and you are defending them.
I, for one (and several many even though the vocal minority seem to think differently) think 3-4 months official notice is enough. Is it a bonus to see new minis 4 months out? Sure it is. Is it necessary to keep ME interested in buying? Nope. Once I've decided on an army that I know I want to buy I don't need to see pics of minis or know 90% of the rulebook to keep my interest in it. It's an army I'll buy, regardless of rules or minis.
It wouldn't matter if GW didn't make anything official until 24 hours before they put the new DE codex and minis up online. The army will still sell like mad, people will buy it and of course this being dakka people will bitch about X unit sucking hard even before they try said unit out in MORE THAN 1 game and GW will still keep making money.
Honestly, as soon as GW makes DE official in it's Incoming newsletter they don't HAVE to do anything more with them until launch day and they'll still be a huge success. It's only theory that months worth of hype will add to sales.
Then there is people like me who have to save to cover my addiction. I only get so much to spend on gaming in a year, so not knowing has me spending my cash on Battletech rather than 40K. I only have bought 3 armies and sold off 2 of them, my second army(Eldar) has been entirely built with traded materials. Meaning GW gets no income from me nor others like me, and with this economy I bet it is a rather large portion of their players.
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Post by: JOHIRA
Whatever1 wrote:It doesn't drive sales of other lines up. Hype/previews drive the sales of other lines DOWN. For example,I play with a guy that was recently getting back into 40k. He decided he was going to do SW. Then,the new BA 'dex gets confirmed,he used to play BA,so he decides to just wait a few months for BA to come out instead of building SW and then turning around and doing BA. He was also planning to do 'nids as a second army,but with all the rumors circling around a new DE release,he's now waiting on them.
Only Games Workshop could build their entire company PR strategy around the notion that giving players sufficient information to buy the models they will be happiest with is bad for the bottom line.
Incidentally, the first boxed army I ever bought was the first Tau army when they were first released, about the time that must have been the high point of GW's rumour window. We must have been getting rumours about the Tau for over a year before they were released. And while the scaling back of the release window did not fully cause me to scale back my purchasing, it is not entirely coincidental that since the release window got shortened I have never bought a boxed army, regiment, or any other multi-set and have drastically slashed my GW spending.
Whatever1 wrote:Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,... Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC.
I know you didn't mean it this way, but it's kind of scary that we're now at the point that buying a GW army is something you have to dedicate a committed savings plan for half a year but video game consoles, TVs, and PCs are impulse buys by comparison.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
When a candy bar company comes out with a new candy bar flavor, do they leak it from the start of development?
Even if it's a variant on an existing bar?
or do they splash release it when the product is ready?
Right.
40k is an impulse buy.
It's not a car.
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Post by: JOHIRA
JohnHwangDD wrote:When a candy bar company comes out with a new candy bar flavor, do they leak it from the start of development?
Even if it's a variant on an existing bar?
or do they splash release it when the product is ready?
Right.
40k is an impulse buy.
It's not a car.
That's a pretty ridiculous comparison. I can buy a new candy bar without needing to dedicate 6 months to a saving plan in preparation. I don't spend weeks or months looking at Hershey's website to see high resolution images of their next candy bar (or Mars's website, where they let you see their new candy bars in 360 degree rotation) just to decide which candy bar is right for me. I don't expect the candy bar I buy to provide me with entertainment for years afterwards, through all of Hershey's future advertising campaigns. And most importantly, eating candy bars is not (at least for me) a social phenomenon. I don't need to get 6 of my mates on board to buy candy bars as well (making sure we all buy compatible candy bars, of course) to really enjoy it.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
No, it's not.
The problem for you, is that you're poor.
GW's *real* customers walk in, see something they like, and just buy it. It's an impulse buy out of pocket money.
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Post by: The Dreadnote
So by that logic why advertise at all?
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Post by: JOHIRA
JohnHwangDD wrote:No, it's not.
The problem for you, is that you're poor.
GW's *real* customers walk in, see something they like, and just buy it. It's an impulse buy out of pocket money.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?
So that players impulse-buy a Skaven army or two when they pop out for crisps and a carton of milk from the corner shop?
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Post by: lixulana
personally i'm guessing if those stats are correct here is what your going to see on a warrior squad
size 10-20
type infantry
wargear
plasma grenades
splinter rifle
mesh armor (5+)
upgrades
sybarite +5 or 10 points
up to one warrior can replace splinter rifles with (if the squad numbers 20 two warriors can do this)
blaster +10
splinter carbine +5
up to one warrior can replace their splinter rifles with ( if the squad numbers 20 two warriors can do this)
splinter cannon +10
dark lance +15
if the squad numbers 10 models they can take a raider dedicated transport for +45 points.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?
Outside of The GW Hobby, does GW advertise at all?
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Post by: Hokiecow
I've seen LORs advertisements from GW when the movie was big... Other then that.. just via 3rd party, such as PC games and such.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Luthon1234 wrote:Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.
That doesn't even make sense. You can do whatever you want with your regular eldar, these are DARK eldar, something entirely different. There can be no "influence" on pirating, they embody pirating. They inhabit the webway, not craftworlds.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote:The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?
Outside of The GW Hobby, does GW advertise at all?
No, which is why they have no excuse not to be a better company.Although it usual works the opposite way. Just look at starbucks. I've never seen an advertisement for starbucks, which means they save A LOT of money on advertisements, so why don't they make their product cheaper? Because they don't have to! GW is the same way. It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
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Post by: Hokiecow
He might just be new to Dark Eldar and Eldar in general and confused by the rumours.
Originally the Eldar fluff had them as pirates before they became the Craft World Eldar we know today. Dark Eldar was a poor attempt to bring them back to their pirating roots.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Samus_aran115 wrote:Luthon1234 wrote:Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.
Hey guys, I've been thinking this guy is a troll trying to stir up a flame-fest.
That doesn't even make sense. You can do whatever you want with your regular eldar, these are DARK eldar, something entirely different. There can be no "influence" on pirating, they embody pirating. They inhabit the webway, not craftworlds.
Here is some links from warseer I saw posted on 40konline.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791429&postcount=510
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791495&postcount=513
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791535&postcount=518
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4792299&postcount=543
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4793359&postcount=564
I kinda figured I would have started seeing these in this site about now. I didn't find these I don't know how valid they are that's why I asked I'm hoping they are false rumors like the April fools ones.
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Post by: Hokiecow
He didn't say they were not going to be called Dark Eldar, just that the codex was not going to be called that.
I would look at it as Codex: Tau became Codex: Tau Empire.
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Post by: Luthon1234
Yea I guess I dunno I'm just hoping that all this is just BS that someone posted.
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Post by: kanelom
Im banking on a whole lot of BS. Sowing seeds of doubt! Not cool..
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Hokiecow wrote:He didn't say they were not going to be called Dark Eldar, just that the codex was not going to be called that.
I would look at it as Codex: Tau became Codex: Tau Empire.
So perhaps they can go back to the obvious:
Codex: Chaos Eldar
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Oh,okay, sorry. I took off that first part because I realized what you were saying, sorry if that was mean..
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Post by: Skarboy
Codex: Eldar Pirates, Codex: Chaos Eldar, Codex: Dark Eldar... who gives a **** what the book is called? I fully expect the fluff to be restructured and retrofitted to current 40k standards, so whatever they end up calling the race I will soon be playing will be wholly secondary to them JUST GETTING THE DAMN MODELS AND BOOK OUT ALREADY.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Two things are old rumours: That the revised Dark Eldar focus on the Corsair aspect and that the new jetbike will be modular, seving both Eldar and Dark Eldar (just add spikes ).
To be frank, Dark Eldar have not much background apart from the "arrrrrrgh .... must get more slaaaaves to tooorture .... arrrrgh" thing. Less than 4 pages in the Codex and a short story. Even the BL novels just didn't know how to portray them apart from the "arrrrrrgh ...." thing (only C.S.Goto, who turned all Dark Eldar into Slaanesh worshippers, like Eldrad himself and the Ulthwé council leader  ). So giving them a more reasonable background is necessary to fill the Codex with the today's standard of background material. And Corsairs are the obvious choice ( FW uses the words Corsairs and Dark Eldar synonymous for a while). And everyone likes pirates So the new batch of rumours sound about right.
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Post by: Oshova
Fateweaver wrote:As I said, Jes might want GW to keep most or all of his minis a secret until he is ready to reveal them.
If it's a personal request people should respect that. I know he was miffed about the Harlequins being leaked weeks before he wanted them to be shown so it wouldn't surprise me if he expects the same from his colleagues and fans for DE.
If that is his wish (and we'll never know unless he makes an announcement himself regarding his wishes) people should respect that wish and not get all worked up if "OMG GW WON'T SHOW US WHAT ANY NEW MINIS LOOK LIKE BECAUSE THE DESIGNER IS BEING A TOOL".
Now before I say what I'm about to say, please ignore the fact that this is about the Twilight (ducks from thrown objects) Series of books. Stephanie Meyer (the author) planned to do all 4 books from the vampire's point of view, but when the Vampire version of Twilight was half written, it was released onto the internet and spread quickly. Stephanie was appalled that people let this happen well before the book was even finished, so she stopped writing, and has completely stepped away from that stroy line. And I saw, credit to her for showing up people that can't wait to read something, even before it's finished being written.
Now I'm just as ready as the next person crazy enough to play Dark Eldar for the new stuff to come out. But I've been waiting 10 years For the Sake Of Pete! I think I can wait a few more months to know what's going on. But in the case of the harlequin release, what would we all have done if Jes had turned round and said he was going to stop all ongoing Eldar projects, leaving a load of stuff undone? Let people do things in their own sweet time, because everything is better the longer you wait for it to come out. Anticipation could make anything good, if their's enough of it.
Oshova
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Oshova wrote: But in the case of the harlequin release, what would we all have done if Jes had turned round and said he was going to stop all ongoing Eldar projects, leaving a load of stuff undone?
Codex: Dark Eldar (v2) languishing on for another year?
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Post by: Oshova
Exactly, I mean obviously there's only so much Jes would be able to do in his fury, as GW has obviously put a lot of time and money into the project so far, that they want to start making money off it. And ultimately all the work their employees does belongs to GW. But he could sure as Hell mess up their entire schedule by dropping tools, and going on strike, maybe taking a few other studio members with him. Then this would only make GW clamp down further on what info gets out of the studio before release date . . . until eventually only Studio employees will actually be able to play the games, and everyone else will only be able to speculate on . . . well . . . anything lol
Oshova
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Post by: lord marcus
Well this is interesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well this is interesting.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Oshova wrote:Exactly, I mean obviously there's only so much Jes would be able to do in his fury, as GW has obviously put a lot of time and money into the project so far, that they want to start making money off it. And ultimately all the work their employees does belongs to GW. But he could sure as Hell mess up their entire schedule by dropping tools, and going on strike, maybe taking a few other studio members with him. Then this would only make GW clamp down further on what info gets out of the studio before release date . . . until eventually only Studio employees will actually be able to play the games, and everyone else will only be able to speculate on . . . well . . . anything lol
... or drop moulds
Actually, the designers WANT to tell us about their new products, only the shampoo managers forbid it, threatening the designers with harsh measures. Up to now, the managers win and can continue the downward path in sales, customers and revenue.
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Post by: Rymafyr
While there is some great conversation going on here, can we at least steer this thread back on track to DE rumours? I really don't feel like reading 10 more posts on what everyone thinks would be the best business model for GW.
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Post by: Oshova
Kroothawk wrote:Oshova wrote:Exactly, I mean obviously there's only so much Jes would be able to do in his fury, as GW has obviously put a lot of time and money into the project so far, that they want to start making money off it. And ultimately all the work their employees does belongs to GW. But he could sure as Hell mess up their entire schedule by dropping tools, and going on strike, maybe taking a few other studio members with him. Then this would only make GW clamp down further on what info gets out of the studio before release date . . . until eventually only Studio employees will actually be able to play the games, and everyone else will only be able to speculate on . . . well . . . anything lol
... or drop moulds
Actually, the designers WANT to tell us about their new products, only the shampoo managers forbid it, threatening the designers with harsh measures. Up to now, the managers win and can continue the downward path in sales, customers and revenue.
Ah fair enough. I understood it was both parties trying to not get info out.
And yeah, any more news on new models, rules, dates . . . anything?
Oshova
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Post by: Kroothawk
Well, Jes was angry when the Harlequin pics leaked the day he wanted to present them on GD, so each designer wants to have a say when it is made public. But the current restrictions are crippling the fun for designers AND customers.
In about a week we get the "incoming October" article, but Dark Eldar fans will perhaps wait another month. No pics yet.
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Post by: Hokiecow
If they did an incoming this Sunday or next, I expect it to be pretty lacking. Similar to the last two incoming, just a few short sentences that talk about the DE but not specifically calling them out.
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Post by: JOHIRA
Rymafyr wrote:While there is some great conversation going on here, can we at least steer this thread back on track to DE rumours?
That's what would naturally happen if there were any other rumours.
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Post by: Rymafyr
L JOHIRA wrote:Rymafyr wrote:While there is some great conversation going on here, can we at least steer this thread back on track to DE rumours?
That's what would naturally happen if there were any other rumours.
Then the thread needs to be closed imo.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Rymafyr wrote:Then the thread needs to be closed imo.
Well, it's par for any DE thread...
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Moving thread to 40K General Discussions.
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Post by: Melissia
Another post by Eldargal, with some stuff from The Dude, Harry, and others.
Here is a summary of what I consider to be reliable Dark Eldar rumours. I'm not saying they are true, or that any other rumours are false, just that this is what I trust at the moment.
Feel free to discuss these and any other rumours to your hearts content, but keep it civil, don't spam, keep background discussions in the background forum, and please, if you want to complain about something, feel free, but do it once, and move on
Previous discussion can be found here.
Release Date
Much conjecture surrounds the release date, however the following “solid” information exists:
Harry gave us his best guess that Dark Eldar will appear in October / November 2010
At the start of April, Harry told us:
Originally Posted by Harry
Dark Eldar are coming.
Phil Kelly has completed the book.
The whole range is NOT done yet but the first wave IS done.
pricetb recently told us the following:
Originally Posted by pricetb
Since I'm not a frequent take this as you will. I friend of mine is a retail salesman for GW and was invited up to the nearest Battle Bunker to meet with his rep and such. Being part of the shop we went and got the usual speil. Isn't this model great blah, blah, blah. Now here's the interesting part, we were taken to the production floor for a look see at what the are producing? Dark Eldar. Couldn't get a great look but it was definately. Feel free to make fun of me now!
To which Harry replied:
Originally Posted by Harry
Six months out for production and global distribution .... Soooo sounds about right for November.
And for the lazy and hard of hearing (reading?), Harry again stated:
Originally Posted by Harry
They are set for release in the Autumn. (October/November) this year.
I imagine Novembers White Dwarf to be back to back Dark Eldar.
The Book is done.
First Wave plastics and metals are all done.
In May, Avian told us:
Originally Posted by Avian
I believe November is Dark Eldar for 40K.
So all up, I think it’s safe to say we’ll see Dark Eldar in November.
Rules
Harry has said here that he expects Dark Eldar to be “nasty but especially nasty for that first strike”
In mid June, Vineas reported that Yakface over at Dakka Dakka posted the following:
Originally Posted by Yakface
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
reds8n added some weight to this, saying:
Originally Posted by reds8n
Actually I'm very inclined to believe these and mr. Yakface.
There has been some scattered talk about a “Pain Chart” which bestows effects based on the number of kills the army has done, much like Epidemius’ Tally Man rule. This has not been supported by anyone reliable as yet.
Miniatures
At the end of April, Rewison reported the following post from Waaagh_Gonads over at Dakka Dakka
Originally Posted by Waaagh_Gonads
After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Best start point is to use this pic as a reference.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...5501389758.jpg
The warriors are not striding forward and hunched over like they are about to tip over- legs are laid out in a wide stance and the models are much, much better proportioned than the old ones, so no more legs that go all the way up and tiny torsos.
Helmets and non helmeted heads included.
Non helmeted head has a high ponytail.
Ribs/shards of bone poke through loincloths and the ponytail.
The helmets are pretty much identical to the above pic, but with lumps/gems over the ears/temples.
From behind the helmets look exactly like eldar guardian ones.
There is a gem/soulstone on the left chest armour- not the shoulder armour piece as per the above pic.
This is where you have to use your imagination as the pic doesn't show it: On the back there is a backpack that looks like it started as an eldar backpack but does not stick out as far, has vestigal 'vanes' compared to the eldar one (so doesn't stick up above the shoulder) and most excellently down the centre of the backpack, it is recessed with scaled armour over the spine (triangular scales with points downwards)
A high collar that flanges out
Rifle is almost exactly the same as the pic for the base model, even down to the jagged bit that pokes up in front of the warriors abdomen in the pic. There is a variant with what looks to be crossbow arms sticking out laterally (ends up looking like a mini anchor)
Attachable Loincloths (variable designs) One has a skull, one a hook on them.
As per the pic, greaves over the lower legs, then knee pads and scales over the upper legs, with points upwards.
Knife scabbard, 2 'rods' and 2 small sachels on the 'utility belt' posteriorly
Blades of differing lengths and size on various armour parts, primarily lower legs and shoulder pads.
Curved knife HW available.
Attachable blades for the end of splinter rifle.
Referring to the same Artwork, Harry said:
Originally Posted by Harry
They don't look exactly like that.
That artwork was based on a sculpt done at the start of the project.
They have that 'look' ... but they evolved a bit.
And this:
Originally Posted by Harry
Dave Gallagher painted it ages ago based on some of Jes's first concept sculpts for the project.
Harry also implies here that Wyches will be plastic (which was pretty much assumed), but doesn't tell us which wave they may appear in.
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Post by: Oshova
Mmm plastic wyches =p That's what I've been waiting for all this time =D
Oshova
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Post by: kanelom
nice summary, too late for getting shunted to general discussions though
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Post by: kanelom
heres some hope shattering news. Thanks for the Incoming DE..
NOT
high elves..
Rumour providers... WRONG!
Heart.... BROKEN!!!
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Post by: Kroothawk
Harry on Warseer said: DE more than 3 months away but less than 5, so November sounds right (as most rumours pointed at for several months).
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Post by: kanelom
good to know, thinking November too as its the last one before Xmas that doesnt have a guaranteed product lined up.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
FacelessMage wrote:You all realise that because DE has a strong tentative release date
the DE manufacturing plant is somehow going to explode and be destroyed in a fire. Then the poor DE players will ahve to wait another 10 years for new molds to be made starting the cycle again.
A "strong release date" would be news to me - where is this published? If it's not published, it's still just rumor.
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
I would like to see DE get some new types of units, but since GW doesn't really have anything to pull from as far as Rogue Trader Dark Eldar, it doesn't seem likely. I'm digging the poison thing and that will add a new way to play them as a whole. But I've always like Reaver jetbike armies. Maybe they'll get a IC that will let them take the jetbikes as troops?
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Post by: Melissia
DE are likely to get just as many units as any other fifth edition list. Which means 25+ units not including special characters...
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Post by: Hokiecow
Scryer in the Darkness wrote:*pfft* I don't bother with such piffle.
...
Right, well my eyes are now rolling with code like The Matrix, but here's the result barring any last minute additions/subtractions:
Codex
3 metal blisters
3 metal boxes
6 plastic boxes
Harry wrote:It is a MONSTER first wave.
BRING IT ON!
The 2nd wave is well on the way too ... and a 1.5 Wave is done.
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Post by: Lexx
Shiny shiny stats. I look forward to rebuilding my Dark Eldar with new models. Sold my old army a few years back. That poisoned splinter based weapons is delish!
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Post by: Hokiecow
When asked when 1.5 and 2.0 release will come out.
Avian wrote:January and March, I am told.
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