I can't narrow my hatred to a single book. I despise everything written by c s goto so much that I refuse to properly puctuate or capitalize his name. His books are such trash it pains me to even credit him as a writer.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The "Planet Kill" book from BL.
I have never before regretted spending that small a sum of money.
Way to have stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the death of a planet in a book called planet kill.
I liked it. A planet does die in every story.
If you've ever wondered what its like in The Eye of Terror or actually even the Warp its covered in there in a very poetic way to I might add. Highly recomend to all Chaos fans.
Considering almost all these stories are actualy fan fiction I was super impressed.
Fulgrim was supposed to be a frickin Primarch for cryin out loud! I was to understand that the Primarchs were so far beyond mortal men as to be nearly incomprehensible. And yet all of them fall for ploys from Chaos that a child could have seen through.
Fulgrim's was the most disappointing though. What a waste of a read.
To be honest, the entire HH series has been a bit of a letdown for me thus far. Mostly for lesser infractions of the above mentioned complaint. When they hit the bookstores, I thought 'Hey, we will get to see some new background revealed! How awesome is this?' but so far there has been very little new material of any interest added.
The Blood Angels Codex. I sold my existing BA army, it was that bad.
Any books about Space Marines. Except perhaps the Crimson Fist one (Ryn's World?). IG books are generally decent enough.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The "Planet Kill" book from BL.
I have never before regretted spending that small a sum of money.
Way to have stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the death of a planet in a book called planet kill.
I liked it. A planet does die in every story.
If you've ever wondered what its like in The Eye of Terror or actually even the Warp its covered in there in a very poetic way to I might add. Highly recomend to all Chaos fans.
Considering almost all these stories are actualy fan fiction I was super impressed.
First one was interesting and the last one a good read. But WTF was with the middle one? I really had absolutely no idea what was going on AT ALL.
Spoiler:
Planet looking for it's master, crushes things/people/ships and gak, Inquistor freak battle at the end Dues Ex Machina, then...
It was without doubt THE most intelligble piece of writing I've ever seen, and I've been on the internet. Well, that and the Eldar Prophecy book, but that had some sort of storyline at least.
Emperors Faithful wrote:The Blood Angels Codex. I sold my existing BA army, it was that bad.
Any books about Space Marines. Except perhaps the Crimson Fist one (Ryn's World?). IG books are generally decent enough.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The "Planet Kill" book from BL.
I have never before regretted spending that small a sum of money.
Way to have stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the death of a planet in a book called planet kill.
I liked it. A planet does die in every story.
If you've ever wondered what its like in The Eye of Terror or actually even the Warp its covered in there in a very poetic way to I might add. Highly recomend to all Chaos fans.
Considering almost all these stories are actualy fan fiction I was super impressed.
First one was interesting and the last one a good read. But WTF was with the middle one? I really had absolutely no idea what was going on AT ALL.
Spoiler:
Planet looking for it's master, crushes things/people/ships and gak, Inquistor freak battle at the end Dues Ex Machina, then...
It was without doubt THE most intelligble piece of writing I've ever seen, and I've been on the internet. Well, that and the Eldar Prophecy book, but that had some sort of storyline at least.
Oh I agree. I treated the whole thing as an acid induced poem. I usually dispise poetry but poem about Eye of terror. Worked for me.
I guess basically BL books can end up being pigeon-holed as all the same: people being shot in the face. To that I say read Planetkill.
The fact(or rumor?) that the only reason the Kroot are capable of space-travel and perhaps other technological feats is because long ago, they incorporated the genetic material of Ork Mekboyz into their genome. It only serves to reinforce the notion that some writers have about Kroot, which is them being 'savages'.
[That one early HH novel]:
Spoiler:
The unmatched idiocy of that one SM who fell to Chaotic influence and decided to pilfer that one weapon from the Technocracy(?)'s armory. If you think about it, had that not occurred, none of the subsequent events could have occurred either. Essentially, that douchebag is the reason the future is grim-dark.
Hellforged:
Spoiler:
Seriously, after saving the day, what how many times in the previous books, and in this one, managing against all odds to defeat the Necrons, it's implied that they're taken captive by the Imperial Fists. What a pitiful end for that Chapter. Granted, they're renegades, and one can't expect any member of a decent tax-paying Chapter to just add any of them as Facebook friends, but the sheer amount of collective ass that was saved because of their actions has to count for SOMETHING, surely?
The fact that bolters have such low ammunition capacities. Understandably, Astartes can demonstrate superhuman accuracy, and it's logical to conclude that they make every shot count, not to mention the fact that SMs are assault/shock forces, but if there's one thing that can stop an offensive faster than a strong enemy defense, it's improper logistical support. Regardless of how effective the rounds are, it would be a show-stopper, imo, to have a bolt pistol carrying only around ten rounds.
Gaunt's Ghosts:
When you consider much crap they've had to go through, how many times they've saved the day, you would expect every single member of the regiment to be given Inquisitor-caliber augmentations and juvenat treatments, and have their great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-children absolutely financially secured for life, but instead they are continuously placed in these hellhole warfronts. Granted, if they "weren't", we wouldn't have such kick-ass novels to read, but still.
For me, most of The Battle For the Abyss, HH novel.
Spoiler:
Just the fact that every single Word Bearer aboard the SS Abyss seems to be a complete idiot. I mean, they create the most powerful ship ever and load it with fanatical twits. Lead by a twit.
The unmatched idiocy of that one Luna Wolf who fell to Chaotic influence and decided to pilfer that one weapon from the Technocracy(?)'s armory. If you think about it, had that not occurred, none of the subsequent events could have occurred either. Essentially, that douchebag is the reason the future is grim-dark.
You mean the Word Bearer Chaplain who stole the anatheme from the museum of the interex? And planted it on the moon of Davin, and later interceded with Horus on behalf of the Ruinous Powers? The one with the Book of Lorgar tattoo'd on his skull, the book that turns out to be an invocation to the Ruinous Powers? That Luna Wolf? You didn't need spoiler tags, you need misinformation tags.
I'll add that I don't like how Iacton "The Half-Heard" Qruze is a Terran veteran in "Horus Rising" but has transfigured himself into a Cthonian veteran by "Galaxy in Flames".
Eh, pretty much all of it is tripe to be honest, I don't think that I really like most of the new background. Some of it is kind of cool, like the Imperial Armor stuff, but a lot of it is just meh.
@ Shaman- Where did you get your avatar? Like could you link a bigger picture of it?
Commander Endova wrote:I'm surprised no one's mentioned C.S. Goto's Blood Raven books. Those seem pretty universally panned.
Although I personally agree with Gwar!.
Spoiler:
Blood Angels and Necrons! Super Secret Unicorn Pony Friends for Life!!!
And lets not forget the obvious contradiction
Spoiler:
where the Ad Mech hates the BA for not giving them the Baal Predator STC, but is all like "Hey guise, wanna fly my new super-awesome airplane?"
have you considered that..
Spoiler:
maybe it's not a contradiction, maybe there's a reason they either won't hand over the STC to the Ad Mech or have, perhaps, learnt something terrible about the Ad Mech that means they don't want to co operate with them....
Emperors Faithful wrote:The Blood Angels Codex. I sold my existing BA army, it was that bad.
Any books about Space Marines. Except perhaps the Crimson Fist one (Ryn's World?). IG books are generally decent enough.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The "Planet Kill" book from BL.
I have never before regretted spending that small a sum of money.
Way to have stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the death of a planet in a book called planet kill.
I liked it. A planet does die in every story.
If you've ever wondered what its like in The Eye of Terror or actually even the Warp its covered in there in a very poetic way to I might add. Highly recomend to all Chaos fans.
Considering almost all these stories are actualy fan fiction I was super impressed.
First one was interesting and the last one a good read. But WTF was with the middle one? I really had absolutely no idea what was going on AT ALL.
Spoiler:
Planet looking for it's master, crushes things/people/ships and gak, Inquistor freak battle at the end Dues Ex Machina, then...
It was without doubt THE most intelligble piece of writing I've ever seen, and I've been on the internet. Well, that and the Eldar Prophecy book, but that had some sort of storyline at least.
Oh I agree. I treated the whole thing as an acid induced poem. I usually dispise poetry but poem about Eye of terror. Worked for me.
I guess basically BL books can end up being pigeon-holed as all the same: people being shot in the face. To that I say read Planetkill.
Planet kill wasn't half bad. Worst bit of fluff has to be Sons of Dorn. C.S Goto isn't half bad imo
Emperors Faithful wrote:In regard to Gaunt's Ghosts, that's the life of a Guardsmen for you. Fantastic feats of heroism demonstrated daily, meager recognition.
Exactly. The best you can ask for after heroic actions is not to be executed for being witness to a deamon/alien/something you weren't supposed to know about.
Okay, I haven't read that much of CS Goto's work. Is it really all that bad? The only thing I have read by him, actually, is the short story The Tower from Let the Galaxy Burn.
But it seems like everyone is heaping a big pile of 'I hate Goto' up here. Are there any specific reasons?
The unmatched idiocy of that one Luna Wolf who fell to Chaotic influence and decided to pilfer that one weapon from the Technocracy(?)'s armory. If you think about it, had that not occurred, none of the subsequent events could have occurred either. Essentially, that douchebag is the reason the future is grim-dark.
You mean the Word Bearer Chaplain who stole the anatheme from the museum of the interex? And planted it on the moon of Davin, and later interceded with Horus on behalf of the Ruinous Powers? The one with the Book of Lorgar tattoo'd on his skull, the book that turns out to be an invocation to the Ruinous Powers? That Luna Wolf? You didn't need spoiler tags, you need misinformation tags.
I'll add that I don't like how Iacton "The Half-Heard" Qruze is a Terran veteran in "Horus Rising" but has transfigured himself into a Cthonian veteran by "Galaxy in Flames".
The massive hate-on that the Black Library in general has for the Sisters of Battle.
On the plus side, there's been two short stories (one good, very good, in fact), one novel (quite poor) and one comic which was unfinished and might actually be mythical anyway - few claim to have ever seen it, though many have searched.
This is the sum-total of BLs output about the Sisters.
Wherever else they appear in BL products they are generally portrayed very badly.
It varies of course - in the Grey Knight serries the sisters are portrayed as a bit pointless, but more or less competant. Other series (I'm looking at you, Mitchel) make them out to be brainless psychos genuinely too unintelligent to wear helmets. Not to mention subject to exactly the sort of psyker powers that do not work in their presence.
Vladsimpaler wrote:Eh, pretty much all of it is tripe to be honest, I don't think that I really like most of the new background. Some of it is kind of cool, like the Imperial Armor stuff, but a lot of it is just meh.
@ Shaman- Where did you get your avatar? Like could you link a bigger picture of it?
Gwar! wrote: 5 words for me: Codex: Golden Nipple Twilight Marines
They used to be cool too.
Slightly modified to fit my extensive hatred, Humanities arguably 2nd most xenophobic (inquisition ranks #1) forces (SMs in general) teaming up with a force designed to have no soul or emotion programmed to harvest life for the C'Tan? THEN simply patting each other on the butt & saying good-game after the battle & heading their separate ways? Excuse me I'm calling B.S.
Oh, this is my kind of thread! It no particular order;
Dawn of War by CS Goto
It's the only CS Goto book I've read, and apparently it's one of his better books. It has a Blood Raven surfing down a river of blood on a Razorback. Also some CSM eat some Eldar, then complain about the taste. A single guardsmen kills several CSM by jumping on their shoulders and shooting them in the head with a hellgun. I'm trying to remember more, but there's a lot of cauterised scar tissue around the part of my brain that remembers stuff CS Goto wrote.
Every single thing Matt Ward has ever written.
Mary Calgar catching a wailing doom in his fist. Necrons and Blood Angles deciding to give peace a chance. To start.
Flight of the Eisenstein
Super Mary Sue marine away! Watch him fight and beat a Plaguemarine! In a fistfight! On the surface of the moon! Without a helmet! Also his ship gets caught in the warp without it's Gellar field, but it's okay because he kills all of the daemons. I resent language itself for physically being capable of forming the words that make up this book.
Brotherhood of the Snake
I haven't actually read this book, so this is possibly unfair. I have read a fairly comprehensive synopsis though. It involved a squad of Space Marines killing 5000 Dark Eldar Warriors without taking a single casualty. Space Marines who, after they run out of ammunition, go on to kill Orks in close-combat by fighting in a phalanx formation. Yeah.
Jimsolo wrote:Okay, I haven't read that much of CS Goto's work. Is it really all that bad? The only thing I have read by him, actually, is the short story The Tower from Let the Galaxy Burn.
But it seems like everyone is heaping a big pile of 'I hate Goto' up here. Are there any specific reasons?
He makes errors on the most basic things.
I have one of his books. Wasn't a bad read if you ignore lots of the stupid stuff.
Jimsolo wrote:Okay, I haven't read that much of CS Goto's work. Is it really all that bad? The only thing I have read by him, actually, is the short story The Tower from Let the Galaxy Burn.
But it seems like everyone is heaping a big pile of 'I hate Goto' up here. Are there any specific reasons?
The entirety of Sons of Malice fluff. It's even worse than the Sanctuary 101 fluff, as at least in the latter it was KINDA justified because they were caught completely off-guard and it was probably not even mostly full Battle Sisters, given the name of the shrine. The former, however, had a large force of Celestians wiped out and sacrificed to the Chaos gods without doing any notable damage, when the Celestians were the ones attacking.
For reference, that's like having an SM force made entirelly out of sternguard veterans and vanguard veterans be wiped out by the enemy they were attacking, without doing any real damage to them. Veterans of countless wars, the best fighters in an order/chapter, equipped with special/heavy weapons-- and yet it's as if their attack didn't take place at all. It's a trashy piece of fanwank for the writer's favorite renegades faction, and yet somehow it made its way into index astartes. GW dropped the ball, then kicked it into a sewer drainage pipe and let it sit there for a few weeks fermenting.
Hey whoever mentioned the general fate of Eldar Avatars don't forget in the Tyranid Codex a mighty ELDAR AVATAR appears to defend some craftworld and is described as being ripped apart by some random Carnifex in a few seconds.
Exor wrote:Pretty much every incident involving an eldar avatar has resulted in it dying in ridiculous ways.
Fulgrim and Codex: Space Marines i'm looking at you!
Well, in all fairness Fulgrim was a primarch wielding a weapon containing a daemon of such power that it had apparently succeeded in enslaving an entire alien race through nothing save sheer force of will.
The BA codex was fine as a PDF, it just needed the wargear updated. Now it is garbage. Mephiston is a Daemon Prince, he just doesn't know it yet??? How does that match any of the Black Library's fluff so far? While we're on that, James Swallow has forever perverted Blood Angels with his books. Did he ever READ their original fluff? And what is with Bile?
I offer you the Deus Sanguinius series by James Swallow. How this drek ever made it out is beyond me. In 2 books, Swallow kills 2/3rds of the BA chapter, destroys a battlebarge, tries to rebirth sanguinius and as the biggest blasphemy, allows a Blood Angel to overcome the Black Rage aka Mephiston.
I'll agree that Battle for the Abyss was absolute drek as was Fulgrim in the HH but I think the book that takes the cake is Daemon World. This book made no sense and was like watching a train wreck take place.
The Iron Snake book I will stand up for though and say it was an excellent book. Whoever told you that they kill 5000 DE is way off. It is one marine against like 6 or 7 of them.
Maybe they were referring to the part where the DE were fleeing the city they rigged to explode? The squad killed around 1kish or something without taking casualties. But regardless it brothers of the snake was a good book,he'lll it was abnett after all. I'll even let the phalanx formation bs orks slide cause the fight sequence itself was well written IMHO.
Melissia wrote:The entirety of Sons of Malice fluff. It's even worse than the Sanctuary 101 fluff, as at least in the latter it was KINDA justified because they were caught completely off-guard and it was probably not even mostly full Battle Sisters, given the name of the shrine. The former, however, had a large force of Celestians wiped out and sacrificed to the Chaos gods without doing any notable damage, when the Celestians were the ones attacking.
For reference, that's like having an SM force made entirelly out of sternguard veterans and vanguard veterans be wiped out by the enemy they were attacking, without doing any real damage to them. Veterans of countless wars, the best fighters in an order/chapter, equipped with special/heavy weapons-- and yet it's as if their attack didn't take place at all. It's a trashy piece of fanwank for the writer's favorite renegades faction, and yet somehow it made its way into index astartes. GW dropped the ball, then kicked it into a sewer drainage pipe and let it sit there for a few weeks fermenting.
The Sons of Malice are badass. And Celestians aren't as powerful of Sternguard or Vanguard. Though I agree it was fanwanked. On the note of surprise, the sisters of battle teleported right in the middle of them in a huge ritual, and if you've read The Labryinth it's reasonable to assume that this was a ritual for the chaos power Malice, as they also om nom nom for him in that tale. So it would be reasonable to assume that they had some psychic support from him?
somecallmeJack wrote:I thought Mechanicum was quite weak aswell. Dalia & that guy whos name I cant even remember falling in love was so sickly & contrived.
I actually liked Mechanicum, though I'll freely admit the poorly developed romance subplot kind of came out of nowhere and didn't go much of anywhere.
Vladsimpaler wrote:@ Shaman- Where did you get your avatar? Like could you link a bigger picture of it?
Never mind that, I've been wanting to ask templeorks about his for a while now!
One of the Gaunt's Ghosts books spoke well of the SoBs, though admittedly it was only in a vision or two.
The best I can do is that I didn't like the way the last Inquisition War (old, I know) book, Chaos Child just kinda fizzled out into pointlessness towards the end. Plus the ending was just ... well, the author just kinda put it down and walked away from it. I guess I haven't read enough of anything to get a full-on hatred of someone's work or a particularly bad story/plot element. But thanks to you guys, I know some things to avoid!
Melissia wrote:GW dropped the ball, then kicked it into a sewer drainage pipe and let it sit there for a few weeks fermenting.
I know I'm taking the above quote out-of-context but it is exactly how I feel about my beloved Mantis Warriors. Been playing 'em 20+ years with nothing but a picture and a couple of paragraphs to go on. Now they finally get some pseudo-official treatment and it's Goto. Frelling Goto... And if Goto get's the boot, then any hope of seeing my chapter get some kind of official treatment get's the boot as well. Kind of a lose-lose situation. Frell!
Kami While I do nto agree with you I respect your opinionand will nto get in this argument that i have been in for the past 3 months but you have to admit there is a slight possibility i mean look at what happend to Cassius.
The fact that the Space Cajuns in Flesh and Iron come from a planet whose capitol is called Norleans (or Norlens, who cares) is just lazy. It's not even borderline clever like later in the book where a character is mentioned as using a "Mosgant" shotgun.
On the plus side as far as naming references go, Cain's Last Stand gets full marks for having Rytepat Spaceport (Wright-Patterson or Wright-Patt is a major USAF base in Dayton, Ohio).
One of the most disappointing books has to be Courage and Honor. I like Graham McNeill's work a lot but the sub-plot about
Spoiler:
an Adeptus Arbites Judge feeling sorry that prisoners (including Xenos) are getting tortured goes against literally everything that an Imperial law enforcement official stands for in every other piece of fluff ever written... ever.
It just read like a very clumsy attempt to inject a "real world" political issue into a 40K novel, particularly an incident in Iraq a few years ago. I don't think it made sense or fit the story and it broke up the rhythm of what was otherwise a pretty decent plot.
Like everyone else, the recent BA codex was a disappointment. Why does everyone hate the Space Wolf novels, though? For the most part they were quite good, by BL standards. Why all the hate?
The entire Horus Heresy series was an awful idea, poorly executed.
The Heresy era works very well as background fluff for the setting. In the codexes it's presented as a vague story of a time in the distant past, with larger-than-life heroes and villains and unbelievable events, surely quite distorted by the millennia of retelling and filtering through an increasingly dogmatic state religion. Perfect for establishing the futuristic dark age feel of the Imperium in the 40k universe.
But it does not hold up to close scrutiny; the story of the Primarchs, the founding of the Imperium and the Heresy is incredibly stupid if we're to take it literally. It only works because it's kept so far in the background and so much is left open to reader interpretation. The more it's fleshed out, the harder it becomes to take seriously. The Heresy era as a setting is just too "high powered" (for lack of a better term) and absurd for me as a reader to relate to.
It doesn't help that the novels themselves were nearly unreadable messes. Even if the basic premise of the series had been a good one (it wasn't), the consistently awful writing would have brought it down.
SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
Codex Tyranids, the new ''Oh Yeah?'' Codex.
Robin ''My Codex Is Better'' Cruddace destroys the biggest Iron Warriors stronghold outside
the Eye in ''less than a week''??!
He also kills the Mortifactors chapter, destroys the Forgeworld of Gryphonne IV and lets
Hive Fleet Leviathan enter the Segmentum Solar. Nothing enters the Segmentum Solar. Ever. That's like a weeks travel from Terra.
Also, don't forget the awful fluff from the ''Parasite of Morthrex''. How a Flying Warrior manages to kill
so many Guardsmen that the entire Guard stronghold is buried beneath a wave of parasites is beyond me.
If a Hive Fleet manages to do all this gak, then why aren't they the rulers of the galaxy?
Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.
Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.
Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die (needs period) it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.
Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.
5 mistakes. Mabye more, if I bothered with Proper nouns. You made one mistake.
Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.
Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.
I believe his quote to be entirely legible and despite the fact that he may have made spelling and grammar mistakes it did not in any way detract from his argument. Also just because people are well-read that does not automatically mean that they themselves will write in an award winning and well edited style. If you wish to disagree with his opinion that is you prerogative but please have a relevant point and keep it OT don't just belittle his writing style.
Ed_Bodger wrote:
I believe his quote to be entirely legible and despite the fact that he may have made spelling and grammar mistakes it did not in any way detract from his argument. Also just because people are well-read that does not automatically mean that they themselves will write in an award winning and well edited style. If you wish to disagree with his opinion that is you prerogative but please have a relevant point and keep it OT don't just belittle his writing style.
Hello.
You believe it didn't detract from his argument; I believe it did. Apologies for the heavy-handedness of my statement, but I believe the point itself was helpful, so it stands.
Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake
(One novel of the fourteen in the Heresy series, Graham McNeill's A Thousand Sons, made it onto the New York Times bestseller list - in the 22nd spot, for a single week - I'm not sure I would characterize that as being "on the top". I'm not aware of any meaningful awards that went to any novel in series, but I admit to only doing a cursory search so maybe I missed something there.)
Something selling a lot of copies is not really an indication of quality. To take a single example, ~53 million people paid money to see Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen in theatres last year; I don't think anyone would (seriously) argue that Michael Bay's films are high art. Or good. At least, I hope not.
Kogwar wrote:i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
In the sense that the protagonists take turns holding the idiot ball in order to advance the plot, yes, the Heresy series is kind of like Greek tragedy. That's actually another strike against them in my book.
But you're entitled to your opinion.
I guess someone's gotta be buying the stuff that Black Library's current crop of authors are putting out, since they keep letting them publishing more.
I wasn't a big fan on Sons of Dorn, I wish scouts could be that awesome, but I mean really? those of you who've read this will know what I'm talking about. Oh and the author's penchant for constantly refering to the title, as if the reader didn't already know who they were reading about....THE SONS OF DORN! omg no way!
Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.
Would be interested to see a source on that, I wasn't able to find anything about it through Google. Even if it is the case, though, I would refer to the statement I followed my first one with - a lot of people paying money for something doesn't make it good.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.
Would be interested to see a source on that, I wasn't able to find anything about it through Google. Even if it is the case, though, I would refer to the statement I followed my first one with - a lot of people paying money for something doesn't make it good.
Like Ed Hardy clothes, Affliction shirts and anything Twilight?
Sheesh, I'm still rather new to the game and it's fluff, but after reading all of this I WANT to read the novels just to see what crazy stuff I can pull out of the books.
After reading some BL books you will be able to transform razorbacks into land raiders and back again, perform numerous backflips over the enemy and shoot multilazors out of your eyes. Or so they say.
The overall story is kinda ok, the basis is fine, but it drags on with unecessary chat with little action.
Spoiler:
Cain is tasked with defending a Shadowfield (or something like that), which is an alien artefact with unknown powers (surprise surprise ). Little action actually takes place, and the ending is so bad I had to read it twice to fully make sense of it: Essentially, with all the action going on between the Renegades and Cain, the Necrons appear out of nowhere (they hadn't been mentioned before anywhere in the book) and within the space of 1-2 pages, the Necrons have killed everyone and taken the artefact before buggering off.
The ending really let it down, as it reeks of "we're running out of paper so make up something to end it in a couple of sentences!"
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Horus Rising would have placed number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list and most of the HH books would placed too but due to some technical reason BL aren't counted.
Would be interested to see a source on that, I wasn't able to find anything about it through Google. Even if it is the case, though, I would refer to the statement I followed my first one with - a lot of people paying money for something doesn't make it good.
Agreed. Lot crappy books get number one on the bestseller list. Pretty much whatever came out that week. Ditto on Movies.
Kogwar wrote:SO you are saying that a book that was on the top of the new york times best seller charts was awful and the fact that it won awards was a mistake i for one am a wide read person and find the books quit delightful and think the author do a good job relating you to the characters so that you care when they die it ties themes from many types of literatures such as epics and Greek tragedies. While it is not the best in the world I think the series is the best they have done to date and please do not think i am trying to stop on your opinion but i strongly disagree.
Dude...for a "wide read" person, you don't seem to know much about punctuation. I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but this is an English language forum, with rules regarding such things; and you can't and shouldn't expect anyone to read your opinion unless you express it in a way that doesn't make people's eyes hurt.
Personally, my least favourite piece of fluff is the fact that the most awesome Primarch, Night Haunter, is dead.
Sry sometimes when i go on a rant my punctuation goes to hell, though i did run that through word.
Though i can agree on the nighthaunter part I hated that to and also what happened to Alpharus and his bro.
Brother Heinrich wrote:I wasn't a big fan on Sons of Dorn, I wish scouts could be that awesome, but I mean really? those of you who've read this will know what I'm talking about. Oh and the author's penchant for constantly refering to the title, as if the reader didn't already know who they were reading about....THE SONS OF DORN! omg no way!
Yeah i know i wish my marines could use a overloading plasma gun as a grenade.
I think all and all it is good we have bl to write these storys as opossed to games like Warmachine or hoards that are good but have no support in the fluff dipartment at all. At least that was the case last time i checked.
darkangels_rule wrote:The chaos codex ( yes the whole book ) i retired my whole chaos army to its case and vowed that till it is fixed, they will not see the light of day
You are not the only one.
Lucky for me my FLGS still allows the old codex to be played if your opponent gives the ok. And since everyone around here knows that chaos got shafted pretty hard.... nobody says no.
the worst ever book released by the whole GW franchise was 'Mark of Chaos', a spin off from a video game (!). Sure, its FB, but still... In this tragic abomination a fiarly major supporting character (an elf) is killed twice by different people! Now, I know what you're thinking. Maybe a wizzerd dunnit? No - just plain old poor editing. As a SF writer meself this kind of garbage really steams my proverbial tortellini (that's not quite a dirty euphemism). Would any of the publishing houses I get rejection letters from put up with a plot hole so large that it's navigible by merchant shipping? Heck no!
Just to reiterate, a fairly major named character clearly dies TWICE in battle with two different warriors. Ouch.
As for bad 40k - I just hated the credibility gap between 'Eisenhorn' and 'Ravenor'. There's a downhill slope there too steep for bobsledding. Oh, and the new chaos codex. Cue the comic book guy...
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS - I'd use the spoiler thingy but I'm trying to save you 2 bucks fiddy on buying this sad waste of tree pulp
Sandy Mitchel hates Sororitas? He's only written that one "Chaos pwn sisters" piece. Give him a chance will ya. To be fair at least he mentioned them at all and felt that they were worthy enough to even write in a piece of fluff. Most writers don't even take that step.
Some people seem not to understand why a pragmatic light-hearted coward like Ciaphas Cain is not a friend of over-zealous fanatics like Sororitas and why the author celebrates this conflict in his humourous novel.
Okay - 'hate' is a strong word. Mitchel probably doesn't hate Sororitas - but he certainly doesn't like them - or more accurately, I think he just doesn't get them.
I understand why Cain doesn't like Sororitas, but whenever they're mentioned there's a strong subtext that he's right about them. Mitchel appears to agree with Cain that they are frothy-mouthed loonies too stupid to wear helmets and too unreliable to protect a temple full of civilians.
It's unfortunate because, Sororitas apart, Mitchel seems to be unique amongst the BL stable in portraying all the armies as cool. He's about the only one that still treats Necrons as terrifying unknown horrors from beyond time - he really sells the fascinating inhumanness of the Eldar and the almighty technology of the Tau. He maintains the flavour of Orks without making them jokes. But somehow, he just does not seem to respect the Sisters of Battle...
I shall instantly retract these claims if his prequel turns out to be fair. I like his writing. I wish he'd write a Necron book - that is something he could do with aplomb.
If I loved the Romans, I wouldn't read Asterix comics. They are not treated with due respect there. Guess it's the format of the Cain novels that urges Mitchell to make Sororitas look like a good victim for jokes.
Kroothawk wrote:Some people seem not to understand why a pragmatic light-hearted coward like Ciaphas Cain is not a friend of over-zealous fanatics like Sororitas and why the author celebrates this conflict in his humourous novel.
How do I read this spoiler stuff? Highlight what how?
OK, check that. I figured it out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: "I hated that to and also what happened to Alpharus and his bro."
What have you read that I have not?
One of the things that bugged me as an Alpha Legion player reading Legion
Spoiler:
was the sudden revelation of Alpharius being a twin Where else in any bit of cannon was that ever suggested and this author just thought it would be cool? When the primarchs were scattered across the galaxy did they have a two seat incubator or what? how did they stay together? It's just not consistent
I don't know what the exact sources are, but pretty much everything about Alpharius and Omegon make my brain hurt in ways I did not think possible. Seriously, I cannot make heads or tails of any of their fluff (That I have read thus far)
If the non-aggression between the Necrons and the Blood Angels in that instance counts as friendship, then I made friends with my second steak last night. Me and my steak, we have friendship rings and everything. It's awesome.
I understand the idea of a Nid fleet getting cuaght in the middle of the fighting, so that both sides had no option but to face this new threat. But the BA codex portrays it as if they fought together side by side and then they left on good terms, becuase the BA weren't keen to fight thier previous bestest buddies.
Emperors Faithful wrote:I understand the idea of a Nid fleet getting cuaght in the middle of the fighting, so that both sides had no option but to face this new threat. But the BA codex portrays it as if they fought together side by side and then they left on good terms, becuase the BA weren't keen to fight thier previous bestest buddies.
Just wait until the Necron Codex comes out and it's retconned to the Blood Angels angrily attempted to assault the necrons while frothing bat-nipple-foam from their mouths and were handily dealt with by one Necron Warrior.
Nurglitch wrote:If the non-aggression between the Necrons and the Blood Angels in that instance counts as friendship, then I made friends with my second steak last night. Me and my steak, we have friendship rings and everything. It's awesome.
Yes, but they just made the history of the Emo Angels even crappier. Did anyone really need that?
TheCyben wrote:the worst ever book released by the whole GW franchise was 'Mark of Chaos', a spin off from a video game (!). Sure, its FB, but still... In this tragic abomination a fiarly major supporting character (an elf) is killed twice by different people! Now, I know what you're thinking. Maybe a wizzerd dunnit? No - just plain old poor editing. As a SF writer meself this kind of garbage really steams my proverbial tortellini (that's not quite a dirty euphemism). Would any of the publishing houses I get rejection letters from put up with a plot hole so large that it's navigible by merchant shipping? Heck no!
Just to reiterate, a fairly major named character clearly dies TWICE in battle with two different warriors. Ouch.
I was going to toss some stuff up about how the orks always take a dive in any major fight outside of their own Codex (they basically exist to be worfed), and the entire HH series was an abomination, but yeah. This takes the cake. Ignoring absolutely everything about fluff, characters, everything else, that's just an intense level of stupidity.
skrulnik wrote:Not everything is black and white. Lots of shades of grey in between.
The thing is, if you want a deep shades of grey relationship between two parties, you don't write one as "has a fanatical religious hate of anything not human" and the other as "desires nothing more than the complete extermination of all life in the universe".
Imperial Guard and Tau or Eldar temporarily working together towards a common goal, and parting amicably when they succeed? Sure, I can see that. Necrons and Space Marines? No.
Imperial Guard and Tau or Eldar temporarily working together towards a common goal, and parting amicably when they succeed? Sure, I can see that. Necrons and Space Marines? No.
). Little action actually takes place, and the ending is so bad I had to read it twice to fully make sense of it: Essentially, with all the action going on between the Renegades and Cain, the Necrons appear out of nowhere (they hadn't been mentioned before anywhere in the book) and within the space of 1-2 pages, the Necrons have killed everyone and taken the artefact before buggering off.
