The Khan attached to a command squad on bikes will be SICK!

Apothecary (FNP), Standard Bearer, Champion, etc.

It's the only way to have bikes and still have pistol/CCW, which can be upgraded to just about anything.

So you could have a 5 bike squad led by the Khan,... FNP, Furious Charge, they can all have 3+ Storm Shield, 1 Lightning Claw, and Plasma pistols!

Granted that is a bit extreme, but hey....

Oh, I think they are also the only squad where the unit members can still all take melta bombs. (I am really going to miss this from the assault squad!!! - Argh).

Ok, so the pricing on the new stuff is totally off too.. insanity prevails.

15 pts for 3+ invuln saves, now why does anyone use anything but invuln saves..

Jumpsquads for 20 a pop, with 2 attacks base and assult on DS turn, not to mention the horredous options. Every model can run around with whatever you want.

Bikes for 25 would be a bargin, but I guess they are a bit overpriced compared to the jumppackers...

Hellfury wrote:Nicest thing I noticed (for me anyways) is that terminators can use the combat squad rule, so you can have six 5 man termies squads.

Not quite deathwing, but not bad.

Now if only you could deep strike combat squad'd termies.

Stelek wrote:Now if only you could deep strike combat squad'd termies.

You can. Nowhere in the combat squad rules does it say you can't do this. In the terminator armour rules, it says "Any model wearing Terminator armour can be teleported onto the battlefield. They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played."

The only exception in the combat squad rules concerns drop pods. It says that a squad deployed via Drop Pod can still split into combat squads when it disembarks.

Kallbrand wrote:Ok, so the pricing on the new stuff is totally off too.. insanity prevails.

You ever seen those anti-smoking commercials, with the big neon sign 'Crazyland'?

I swear they are GW ad spots.

Lormax wrote:

Stelek wrote:Now if only you could deep strike combat squad'd termies.

You can. Nowhere in the combat squad rules does it say you can't do this. In the terminator armour rules, it says "Any model wearing Terminator armour can be teleported onto the battlefield. They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played."

The only exception in the combat squad rules concerns drop pods. It says that a squad deployed via Drop Pod can still split into combat squads when it disembarks.

Welcome to humorville.

It was a dig at the Dark Angels Codex.

Stelek wrote:

Lormax wrote:

Stelek wrote:Now if only you could deep strike combat squad'd termies.

You can. Nowhere in the combat squad rules does it say you can't do this. In the terminator armour rules, it says "Any model wearing Terminator armour can be teleported onto the battlefield. They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played."

The only exception in the combat squad rules concerns drop pods. It says that a squad deployed via Drop Pod can still split into combat squads when it disembarks.

Welcome to humorville.

It was a dig at the Dark Angels Codex.

Ahh, context missed by myself. I'll leave the info there for people that don't know about it

Hands off my DA codex :(

Winning with DA is going to become the new pimp...

"I owned you and my CMLs only shoot half as much as yours..."

Actually, I found the potential cover for the rumored updated Dark Angel codex. Pretty nifty.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002

Kallbrand wrote:Jumpsquads for 20 a pop, with 2 attacks base and assult on DS turn, not to mention the horredous options. Every model can run around with whatever you want.

Assault marines with jump packs, 1 base attack, and no special rules for assaulting on the turn the Deep Strike are 190 for 10, and that includes a sergeant (with no special weapons).

Assault marines who can assault after deep striking and have 2 base attacks are 325 for 10, including a sergeant (who still gets 2 base attacks) with a power sword. Note that while you can buy Vanguard for 225 for 10, that's without jump packs and the "assault after deep strike" rule requires them to pay 10 points each for jump packs.

Rated G wrote:Actually, I found the potential cover for the rumored updated Dark Angel codex. Pretty nifty.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002

Good one!

(And probably spot on...)

i only have one word....... so cheasey

Okay, since the "mr. pirate" pictures of the codex have been removed, would someone take a moment at tell me if Rhinos still come with a stormbolter by default and a second pintle mounted stormbolter as an upgrade?

They do and they do. In that order.

BYE

yes,....

Rhino, SB, Smoke, and Search Light all for just 35 pts!

AND Dozer blades work at any speed now. Also note that you can move at any speed through terrain and only have to roll once for dangerous terrain

Dammit! Vindies come with a stormbolter as well. Guess that means that I'll have to stick one onto my Spiky "Loyalist" marines. Can I chose not to have it, and get a point off or something?

Anyone know what a seige shield does? Its an upgrade for Vindicators, im guessing +1 to top armour?

Siege shield's make Vindi's immune to dangerous terrain tests

Arihiman wrote:i only have one word....... so cheasey

I was going to point out that what you wrote is actually two words, but then I realized that "cheasey" isn't a word so I guess you're right.

Lowinor wrote:Assault marines with jump packs, 1 base attack, and no special rules for assaulting on the turn the Deep Strike are 190 for 10, and that includes a sergeant (with no special weapons).

10 raptors with an aspiring champion cost 215 pts. Aside from an additional pt of Ld they have exactly the same stats. +25 pts for +1 Ld? Sounds fair to me.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Arihiman wrote:i only have one word....... so cheasey

I was going to point out that what you wrote is actually two words, but then I realized that "cheasey" isn't a word so I guess you're right.

That just made my morning

Cheasey is a word, it's a proper noun.

http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Cheasey-family-history-uk.ashx

Lormax wrote:Siege shield's make Vindi's immune to dangerous terrain tests

Its things like this that make really annoyed! Well, in a few years perhaps i'll see a shield like that for my Angels...


//Edge

Hmm... Vindicators with big shields, and only one of them has rules. Yeah, definately less confusing than a 1 page FAQ.

BYE

Kilkrazy wrote:Cheasey is a word, it's a proper noun.

http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Cheasey-family-history-uk.ashx

Well by that logic I could claim that "blarpholine" is a word - or at least it will be once I legally change my name to Mr. Blarpholine.

Not really. Cheasey has been around for hundreds of years and has heritage. That's different from a word you just decided to make up.

I dare you to go ahead and do it!!!11!

blinky wrote:Dammit! Vindies come with a stormbolter as well. Guess that means that I'll have to stick one onto my Spiky "Loyalist" marines. Can I chose not to have it, and get a point off or something?

Anyone know what a seige shield does? Its an upgrade for Vindicators, im guessing +1 to top armour?

It always has come with the stormbolter

Tactical squads are 90 pts and SM's are +16 pts each. Tigurius is 230 pts.

One thing that really pulled a 180 are dreadnoughts. They no longer come equipped with assault cannons as standard. They are 105 pts and are equiped with a Multi-Melta, close combat weapon w/ storm bolter, smoke, and searchlight. Assault cannon is a +10 pt upgrade.

Why did the termies loose their 5+ invul save?

Wait, what?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The new dex has only a 2+ armor save for termies. the 2+/5+ is gone.
Any invul save is also not included in any page with rules for termies or termie armor.

But termies get the special rule "weapon-experts" from the rulebook.

no its not, look under the terminator armor rules its right there termies get a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul sace
(its in the armor page, not the termie or points one)

Wow I nearly had a heart attack. Loyal termies lose their invul save? Hell that would make a Chaos unit better than their SM equivalent and we just can't have that! (Though it could be rationalized that the forges lost the technology to upkeep terminator force field or whatever makes the invulnerable save)

if anyone needs proof i can email them the exact page it is listed under

1hadhq wrote:Why did the termies loose their 5+ invul save?

It's not on the stat line, but I think it'll be specified somewhere else in the codex. If you look the Captain's wargear he come with an Iron Halo as standard equipment yet the invulnerable save is not listed. Additionally the invulnerable saves are in the stat lines of the reference sheets for both units.

5th Edition Codex wrote:A model wearing Terminator armour has a 2+ armour save, and a 5+ Invulnerable save.

It's in the Armour section of the Codex.

The Terminators did not lose their 5+ inv. save. The pics of the pages you may have seen only show the regular armor save. Invulnerable saves are not shown on the statline. The Terminator armor rules are on another page with the 4 different types of marine armor (powered, carapace (scout), articifer, terminator), and the Terminator rules also state that models equipped with it may deep strike and have their 5+ save.

-damned, I was real slow on that one.

*looks in his brandnew dex*

*finds no invul save*

Which page did you find the invul save
in the CODEX not some photographed pages on the web!

page 102 about 3/4 of the way down

I'll hope someone has a printed original dex in english to confirm this.

Since my German dex missed this line.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Lowinor wrote:Assault marines with jump packs, 1 base attack, and no special rules for assaulting on the turn the Deep Strike are 190 for 10, and that includes a sergeant (with no special weapons).

10 raptors with an aspiring champion cost 215 pts. Aside from an additional pt of Ld they have exactly the same stats. +25 pts for +1 Ld? Sounds fair to me.

Don't forget ATSKNF and Combat Tactics

Chad Warden wrote:
Don't forget ATSKNF and Combat Tactics

You can't really compare units across Codexes. Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

mothman_451 wrote:if anyone needs proof i can email them the exact page it is listed under

I need proof that the entire Codex is even real! Send it to me please?

mothman_451 wrote:no its not, look under the terminator armor rules its right there termies get a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul sace
(its in the armor page, not the termie or points one)

Whew, thanks for dispelling that!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I'm almost sure I read somewhere else that the german version of the Codex had a typo regarding the Terminator save.

lord_blackfang wrote:You can't really compare units across Codexes.

Did you really just say this with a straight face? You can't compare units between Codices? Really? You can't?

You really just did say that, for real, no joke?

Really?

I'm... I'm at a loss for words at just how many types of wrong that statement is Blackfang.

BYE

Anyway, who cares if Termy Armour has a 5+(I) save or not? Assault Terminators are the new hotness in this 'Dex, and they get 3+(I) saves.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:You can't really compare units across Codexes.

Did you really just say this with a straight face? You can't compare units between Codices? Really? You can't?

You really just did say that, for real, no joke?

Really?

I'm... I'm at a loss for words at just how many types of wrong that statement is Blackfang.

BYE

You mean all the other choices in a particular army list has no bearing on the viability of a unit? As in all units exist in a vacuum?

Really?

Nothing in 40K exists in a vacuum except for people who complain all the time (like me). Why? 'Cause in a vacuum, no one can hear you whine.

BYE

But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

The idea was that GW was the vacuum... oh never mind. It obviously went over your head.

Anyway most people here find me amusing, as most people realise that I'm only half serious. Only those with me on ignore (all one of 'em) seem to have a problem with differing opinions.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

The idea was that GW was the vacuum... oh never mind. It obviously went over your head.

Anyway most people here find me amusing, as most people realise that I'm only half serious. Only those with me on ignore (all one of 'em) seem to have a problem with differing opinions.

BYE

The old adage rings true.

Sarcasm is lost on the internets.

Mahu wrote:Sarcasm is lost on the internets.

Was that sarcasm?





BYE

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

Wait, did he start a podcast? I can only see his "whine".

temprus wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

Wait, did he start a podcast? I can only see his "whine".

no the peaple that hear him whine get the the forum read out loude to dem

lord_blackfang wrote: Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

CSM lack dedicated assault troops outside of Raptors?!? It has to be sarcasm.

I thought that with Relic Blades being 2 handed it would prevent you using a Storm Shield, but the wording on them means you can use both at the same time.

Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

I will check this tomorrow, and post a simple yes or no.

Do Storm Shields still replace a weapon? For example Vanguard marines say you can replace X and/or Y for Z at A points. But may also have the following (storm shield) for B points. Does that mean the whole unit can run around with plasma pistols, power weapons and storm shields? Or is there something in the new storm shield text that prohibits this?

Vanguard:
Storm-shields replace boltpistol or chainsword.
This denys a plasmapistol + power weapon + stormshield.

Storm shields deny the second attack for 2x CCw.
But you can take 2x stormshield.

Chad Warden wrote:Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Does an Ironclad with a Chainfist serve a purpose? You'll be trading 2D6+10 for 2D6+10... when against vehicles it's AV10 anyway as you always attach rear, so you can't not penetrate.

So is there a point to either?

BYE

1hadhq wrote:Storm shields deny the second attack for 2x CCw.
But you can take 2x stormshield.

Best part of the new Codex:

Chapter Master w/Terminator Armour + 2 Thunder Hammers.

Someone has to model that, even if it is pointless.

BYE

Chad Warden wrote:I thought that with Relic Blades being 2 handed it would prevent you using a Storm Shield, but the wording on them means you can use both at the same time.

This would only apply to chapter master,Captain and vanguard sgt.
weapon options will prevent both choices at one model.
Take relic blade or stormshield

Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

He's not talking about a DCCW. He's talking about a Chainfist. An option for Ironclad Dreads is a Chainfist, not that I can see why you'd ever need one.

BYE

Chainfist is only in the unit entry.Maybe no one replaces the "hammer" of a ironclad (adds +1 at vehicle damage chart!)
with a chainfist?
Or is it the S 6 in the dread stats?
S6 (10) is no more in the dex.
found it.
Rulebook reference.

Dread CCW is a power weapon doubling strength.
Seismic hammer => S10 with damage roll +1 on chart.

Sorry, turns out my example was supposed to be for Command Squads. They can have p. pistol, p. wpn., and storm shield (plus FNP), but would they still get +1 for P/CC?

Smashotron wrote:Sorry, turns out my example was supposed to be for Command Squads. They can have p. pistol, p. wpn., and storm shield (plus FNP), but would they still get +1 for P/CC?

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.
WYSIWYG will stop you fielding 2 one-handed weapons and a stormshield.

Anyone with 3 arms is a heretic and will be burned and cannot use Codex SM.

Is a 5-man command squad with bikes and 5x special-weapon a good idea or bad?

good idea.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Chad Warden wrote:Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Does an Ironclad with a Chainfist serve a purpose? You'll be trading 2D6+10 for 2D6+10... when against vehicles it's AV10 anyway as you always attach rear, so you can't not penetrate.

So is there a point to either?

BYE

Unless I'm horribly mistaken, Dreads don't get the +1D6 armor penetration by default -- the Ironclad's normal bonus is +1 on the vehicle damage table.

The real cost for the upgrade, though, appears to be the ranged weapon attached to the hammer.

It seems people have stopped complaining about how good Tiggy is now we know that 230 pts gets you a t4 w2 sv3+ bullet magnet.

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.
WYSIWYG will stop you fielding 2 one-handed weapons and a stormshield.

Anyone with 3 arms is a heretic and will be burned and cannot use Codex SM.

Because no Space Marine ever uses holsters for their pistols or scabbards for their swords.

Justyn wrote:

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.

Because no Space Marine ever uses holsters for their pistols or scabbards for their swords.

You can wear holsters and scabbards until your marine is a pile of weapons.
It doesn't help.
Use a stormshield and you get only the attacks from the statline plus 1 for assaulting.

Wield 1 one-handed weapon + stormshield => invul save.
Wield 2 one-handed weapons => no invul save.

HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

lord_blackfang wrote:Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

So lemme get this straight. Your argument is that the FEWER options your codex has, the MORE you should pay for the ones you do get? In other words, the more your codex sucks, the more it should suck. Well I guess that sort of makes sense. No wait, it doesn't.

Assault Termies still go for 40 pts each, right? Do the +3 Shield cost extra? And does Furious Charge still costs 3 each?

And what's the actual cost of Vulkan?

Getting ready for next Las Vegas. Can't wait to start.

EdgarM wrote:Assault Termies still go for 40 pts each, right? Do the +3 Shield cost extra? And does Furious Charge still costs 3 each?

And what's the actual cost of Vulkan?

Getting ready for next Las Vegas. Can't wait to start.

weapon exchange is free for assault termies.Take pair LC or Thunderhammer+stormshield.

furious charge is gone.any other veteran skill is gone too.
termies got a special rule (from the rulebook): They can move and fire ALL weapons as stationary and can assault after that.

Vulkan He'stan = 190

Wehrkind wrote:HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

Hmm... brain fart in my case then. Where the hell did I get the 2D6 from? I really don't know.

In any case though, it's still redundant as you're only attacking AV10. So whether it's D6+10 or 2D6+10, you're still scoring over 10, so instant penetration. I just don't see the point.

BYE

There are these pesky Land Raider things that it would help against...

There are exactly three vehicles in the game with rear AV's over 10 (not including Super-Heavies). For these, you need you might need something more than 10, but for everything else, there's Master Card... I mean standard rules, making Meltabombs and the like redundant.

BYE

Chain Fist works good against Walkers with AV12 or 13.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

Hmm... brain fart in my case then. Where the hell did I get the 2D6 from? I really don't know.

In any case though, it's still redundant as you're only attacking AV10. So whether it's D6+10 or 2D6+10, you're still scoring over 10, so instant penetration. I just don't see the point.

BYE

Dread vs Dread is against front armors. Dread vs monolith and Landraiders. Those are the only places where you wont auto pen. 2d6 will help better than 1D6.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:In other words, the more your codex sucks, the more it should suck. Well I guess that sort of makes sense. No wait, it doesn't.

Well this is Chaos we're talking about. We need more Hurr, or else we'll keep on getting kicked in the dirt.

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

Oh, what a 'oh damn' moment. We always played Dread CCWS went last...hah..oops.

lord_blackfang (like MDG) is just a warseer fanboy that's only here because he got banned, logic doesn't work on him

If the points were the other way around he'd be coming up with reasons why Assault Marines should cost more than Raptors

And I think while it's true you can't always compare units in a vaccum, I think it's reasonably fair to compare units in different marine armies given how similar they are.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

Oh, what a 'oh damn' moment. We always played Dread CCWS went last...hah..oops.

You got chainfists on your dreads before

Chad Warden wrote:lord_blackfang (like MDG) is just a warseer fanboy that's only here because he got banned, logic doesn't work on him

If the points were the other way around he'd be coming up with reasons why Assault Marines should cost more than Raptors

And I think while it's true you can't always compare units in a vaccum, I think it's reasonably fair to compare units in different marine armies given how similar they are.

*shrug*. I think it's an issue of codex age (which unfortunately means Raptors are going to be inferior pretty much until 6e) -- Assault Marines have received a non-scoring unit discount bigger than the one Raptors theoretically got.

In 5th Ed. they created the "Barrage" type for weapons to replace the "guess" type weapon rules.

To anyone who's seen the codex have you noticed they made the demolisher cannon a "barrage" weapon in the new codex?

aka_mythos wrote:In 5th Ed. they created the "Barrage" type for weapons to replace the "guess" type weapon rules.

To anyone who's seen the codex have you noticed they made the demolisher cannon a "barrage" weapon in the new codex?

Barrage??
No . Demolisher is ordnance.
The Earthshaker is the only imperial gun that is a barrage weapon.

Don't forget the mighty mortar ;-) There is also the whirlwind.

1hadhq wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:In 5th Ed. they created the "Barrage" type for weapons to replace the "guess" type weapon rules.

To anyone who's seen the codex have you noticed they made the demolisher cannon a "barrage" weapon in the new codex?

Barrage??
No . Demolisher is ordnance.
The Earthshaker is the only imperial gun that is a barrage weapon.

In the new Space Marine Codex, the Demolisher is a Barrage Weapon. However, in the current Imperial Guard Codex, it is not.

Somnicide wrote:Don't forget the mighty mortar ;-) There is also the whirlwind.

Your mighty mortar has returned to IG??

Seems like a Whirlwind is a missile launcher. :S
But there was a Land Raider conversion with a earthshaker.......

MinMax wrote:
In the new Space Marine Codex, the Demolisher is a Barrage Weapon. However, in the current Imperial Guard Codex, it is not.

wouldn't it be weird ? A barrage weapon with 24"
Barrage: fires direct or indirect. So I could have a demolisher hurling a big explosive over a small terrain piece?

Codex Sm (german) : demolisher = ordnance 1

abadabado!! - You're right about logic for chaos. I do think it implied if your codex sucks you shold pay more (as it needs to suck more!)

1hadhq wrote:

MinMax wrote:
In the new Space Marine Codex, the Demolisher is a Barrage Weapon. However, in the current Imperial Guard Codex, it is not.

wouldn't it be weird ? A barrage weapon with 24"
Barrage: fires direct or indirect. So I could have a demolisher hurling a big explosive over a small terrain piece?

Codex Sm (german) : demolisher = ordnance 1

Yup. Consider that Tau have a barrage weapon with even shorter range. The Airbursting Fragmentation Projector only has 18" range.

Now this will be a interesting question:

who quotes a dex that is in his possession?

I have a codex on my desk.

No copy.
No website.

just a original new Codex Space Marines.

The problem with that is one thing, GW's cross language support and translation has never been 100%. Your codex may say one thing, but the original English one may be completely different.

InquisitorFabius wrote:The problem with that is one thing, GW's cross language support and translation has never been 100%. Your codex may say one thing, but the original English one may be completely different.

therefore I'm asking for quotes from a non-german dex.


copys from alpha-versions might be changed.

Chad Warden wrote:lord_blackfang (like MDG) is just a warseer fanboy that's only here because he got banned, logic doesn't work on him

If the points were the other way around he'd be coming up with reasons why Assault Marines should cost more than Raptors

Of course, anyone who doesn't throw a tantrum whenever the development of a game of toy soldiers doesn't go his way is a fanboy, while those who cry and whine and moan and threaten to leave the hobby and make fun of the games devs' children are level-headed individuals with balanced opinions.

That said, I really don't know how some of you can be so thick that you swallow "CSM have less assault troops than SM" without all the sarcasm bells going off. Isn't this the kind of thing Dakka is famous for?

I really have to try to not launch into an Anti-Warseer rant, so I'll just do this:

Warseer wrote:
USE TACTICS!!!!!!!

... and walk away...

BYE

EDIT:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I really have to try to not launch into an Anti-Warseer rant, so I'll just do this:

Warseer wrote:
USE TACTICS!!!!!!!

... and walk away...

BYE

Fine Viperion


QFT

PistolWraithCaine wrote:QFT

You know you have to QUOTE SOMETHING before it's "Quoted for truth", right?



I think everyone needs to take a day off this thread, there hasn't been a nice (let alone on-topic) post for some time now...

Viperion

I noticed that the demolisher is infact barrage. Thats groovy for 2 reasons. First its barrage with no minimum range, unlike the bassy. Second if you choose to use it that way you can remove the option cover saves when shooting at stuff that is getting saves from models in front of it. S10 and AP2 means lots of dead stuff. That's awesome. Its probably why I'm taking 3 in my SW army.

When you think about it, the demolisher is constantly referred to in the fluff as a siege weapon and a barrage weapon is definitely more suited for a siege than a direct ordinance.

Quick note, the Ironclad (sp) dread can get a chain fist, but nothing changes the attack I of the chain fist to 4 instead of the rules stated 1.

Does GW play test anything? Or do they just ask fluff masters if it makes sense to them, and then it passes?

GW: What about this?
FM: Wow, looks "siege-like" cool.
GW: mmmm overpower the rules they sell tons....$50 a model...sure add it.

*opens door and looks*

Nope, most people still seem unable to keep on topic.

The thread was specifically about "facts". Two posts in, it turn into a combination wishlist/whinethread. Amazing.
Anyway anybody with an ounce of internet savvy will have the codex by now.

*closes door*

Fact: hunter-killer missile price drop from 15 to 10.

Should we use more H-K M now?

InquisitorFabius wrote:Quick note, the Ironclad (sp) dread can get a chain fist, but nothing changes the attack I of the chain fist to 4 instead of the rules stated 1.

...With the possible exception that models with Chainfists (and Powerfists) strike at Initiative 1.

I wonder if the barrage bit in the Marine Dex is a mistake they will never own up to..... And that was how all demolisher cannon ended up barage weapons in 5th ed.

Come now, you should know better than to trust the summary page. There is no "Barrage" in the main Vindicator entry.

1hadhq wrote:Fact: hunter-killer missile price drop from 15 to 10.

Should we use more H-K M now?

thats becose of apoc rangles is realy hard for apoc.
whit 5 edion made to be played more in apoc ( they saw how many there were played on my lokal gw we have 1 evry saterday.

quietus86 wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Fact: hunter-killer missile price drop from 15 to 10.

Should we use more H-K M now?

thats becose of apoc rangles is realy hard for apoc.
whit 5 edion made to be played more in apoc ( they saw how many there were played on my lokal gw we have 1 evry saterday.

1 hunter-killer missile (UNLIMITED RANGE) per transport or tank / 2 per ironclad dread => Missile rain in APOC
First turn apoc: 10-20 HK missiles against any light vehicle/transport at full range.

it les over powert when its 15 pnts than when it was 10 pnts in apoc one thing thet got more resenabal.
and the codex isent that overpowert it has some sweet units but they don't realy score.

They are also blisteringly expensive.

and how many time's have you seen them hit home

your home was hit by hunter-killer missile?


3+ = 66% to hit

Plastic Parody wrote:I wonder if the barrage bit in the Marine Dex is a mistake they will never own up to..... And that was how all demolisher cannon ended up barage weapons in 5th ed.

Well not all demolishers really, BA and DA dont have barrage on theirs. Pitty...


//Edge

i just skimmed through the codex but could not find the entry that lets dreds be taken as elites and heavy, could someone gimme the page number or entry where i can find that? i was hoping to base an army around 6 dreds. i assumed it was in the MoTF section but maybe im blind.

thanks

studderingdave wrote:i just skimmed through the codex but could not find the entry that lets dreds be taken as elites and heavy, could someone gimme the page number or entry where i can find that? i was hoping to base an army around 6 dreds. i assumed it was in the MoTF section but maybe im blind.

thanks

page 133

ah, there it is, THANKS! my urge to do the 6 dred army has been rekindled.

1hadhq wrote:your home was hit by hunter-killer missile?


3+ = 66% to hit

wear I play we only se 20% of the missiles hit home.
its de role of only having to take 1 save you are goeing to fail that save.

quietus86 wrote:
wear I play we only se 20% of the missiles hit home.
its de role of only having to take 1 save you are goeing to fail that save.

Its called MISS-ile then?

jip somting like that the peaple that call dem rockets hit more often than the peaple go call dem missiles.
don't ask me wy bit thats what I have seen in the batels at my local gw

I was able to see the new Space Marines Codex at my local store, and from what I can see, Shadow Captain Shrike can only take a command squad as a body guard, by they cannot have jump packs. Does anyone know if you will be able to give jump pack characters some for of guard?

anduril_93 wrote:I was able to see the new Space Marines Codex at my local store, and from what I can see, Shadow Captain Shrike can only take a command squad as a body guard, by they cannot have jump packs. Does anyone know if you will be able to give jump pack characters some for of guard?

Command squads can't utilize jump packs. They can use bikes though. Vanguard veterans may be something you can run with Shrike as an alternative.

Do command squads work like BA honor guard now, ie they dont have to be attached to a character?

I could see cheap sallies command squads with 4 flamers/melta's in razorbacks/drop pods being fun. Kinda like the IG command section but much more survivable.

Also does terminator armor give +1 attack when you take it?

Khornatedemon wrote:Do command squads work like BA honor guard now, ie they dont have to be attached to a character?

NO. you need a captain to get a command-squad. Sicarius,Lysander,shrike and kor'sarro will count as cpt for this.
Get a cpt or a SC with the rank of a cpt. attach squad (squad needs no FOC slot.).

I could see cheap sallies command squads with 4 flamers/melta's in razorbacks/drop pods being fun. Kinda like the IG command section but much more survivable.

For multi flama/melta fun i suppose the sternguard. take 2 special weapons plus combibolter/ flamer or meltagun for every marine.
Or the full way with 2x heavy flamer.Go sallie

I think he was refferring to how you don't actually have to put the Blood Angels characters with their commmand squads, they operate independantly of each other.

Pretty much what ratbarf said. I know you need the captain toget the commamd squad, but there's nothign saying he has to accompany the squad.

Sternguard are good for that purpose as well but the command squad is cheaper and more survivable with FNP.

blinky wrote:

JHall wrote:Marines cannot have BP/CCW unless they are assault squads

Well theres you're cause. Its interesting to think that CSM's are more flexible than "Tactical" squads. Needless to say however, we don't get our cool toys like the whirlwind, Razorback etc..

In game terms however, that extra attack can be very useful in CSM/SM combat, and given the mark of khorne makes them even more deadly, with 2/3 attacks, 4 on the charge!

I also noticed, however that their preds are a lot cheaper than ours. :(

That's what you get for leaving the Imperium and turning on the Emperor while Tech Support was still generating new weaponry.

Did we ever hear how close the actual stats and equipment of the Salamanders guy is to what was rumored?

Aduro wrote:Did we ever hear how close the actual stats and equipment of the Salamanders guy is to what was rumored?

pretty spot on. He has a 2+/3++, a master crafted relic blade with digital lasers (re-roll one to wound roll), and a heavy flamer. He has chapter master stats.

No Thunder Hammer? Boo!!

Khornatedemon wrote:

Aduro wrote:Did we ever hear how close the actual stats and equipment of the Salamanders guy is to what was rumored?

pretty spot on. He has a 2+/3++, a master crafted relic blade with digital lasers (re-roll one to wound roll), and a heavy flamer. He has chapter master stats.

Doesn't have Eternal Warrior though. That was rumored if I recall correctly. Only Calgar and Lysander ended up with it.

And don't forget probably more than 9 times out of 10 that Heavy Flamer will be twin linked.

Hmmm, I was all psyched up about burning so many heathens, but if he's not got a Thunder Hammer (which i would have represented with a nicely large/ornate power fist), it really kind of kills my army's theme...

What about the Crimson Fist guy then? I've heard some say he makes Sternguard into Troops, and others say he just makes them Scoring.

Aduro wrote:Hmmm, I was all psyched up about burning so many heathens, but if he's not got a Thunder Hammer (which i would have represented with a nicely large/ornate power fist), it really kind of kills my army's theme...

What about the Crimson Fist guy then? I've heard some say he makes Sternguard into Troops, and others say he just makes them Scoring.

Just scoring. He does grant +1 attacks to all friendly units within 12" though, which is potentially pretty amazing.

Alright, that's the version I was assuming was correct. May use him instead. Thanks for the info.

Does anyone know if the Heavy Flamer in the new Codex an Assault Weapon?

I'm pretty sure that Power Armored troops can take one now, so I certainly hope it is!

Alpharius wrote:Does anyone know if the Heavy Flamer in the new Codex an Assault Weapon?

I'm pretty sure that Power Armored troops can take one now, so I certainly hope it is!

The Heavy Flamer is indeed an Assault weapon.

Tac squads can't take Heavy Flamers, but Sternguard Veterans can.

It brings the Heavy Flamethrower profile into line with the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Chaos Space Marines. Nothing surprising.

Nurglitch wrote:It brings the Heavy Flamethrower profile into line with the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Chaos Space Marines. Nothing surprising.

Huh? The Heavy Flamer stats are exactly the same as they were in the 4th edition Space Marine codex.

Nurglitch wrote:It brings the Heavy Flamethrower profile into line with the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Chaos Space Marines. Nothing surprising.

Does anyone else find that as deliciously ironic as I do?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:It brings the Heavy Flamethrower profile into line with the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Chaos Space Marines. Nothing surprising.

Does anyone else find that as deliciously ironic as I do?

BYE

The Heavy Flamer has never been a heavy weapon. It's assault 1 in the original 3rd ed. marine codex even.

Yah its been a heavy weapon for an entire edition. Where have you been.

2 questions:

Can you arm a captain miniature with, say a powerfist and a power weapon (or relic blade, etc)?

Is that an option, or not?

Also, not asking for stats, but what is the wargear on Pedro Kantor? Does his wargear have any special rules (outside of dorns arrow, the assault 4 Stormbolter)?

Thanks!

-Red__Thirst-

Red__Thirst wrote:2 questions:

Can you arm a captain miniature with, say a powerfist and a power weapon (or relic blade, etc)?

Is that an option, or not?

Also, not asking for stats, but what is the wargear on Pedro Kantor? Does his wargear have any special rules (outside of dorns arrow, the assault 4 Stormbolter)?

Thanks!

-Red__Thirst-

Yep you can give him two weapons of pretty much any variety you like.

Pedro just has a Power Fist, Dorn's Arrow, an Iron Halo, and frag and krak. Other than Dorn's Arrow his gear is standard, its worth noting that the arrow is AP4 though. Also, he is a chapter master so he has orbital bombardment.

Thanks Rosicrucian, I appreciate the information

I remember that the arrow was AP:4, definitely pretty cool. Too bad his PF doesn't get a nifty 'strike at higher initiative once per game' sort of rule, but he does have orbital bombardment, and is a nice army-booster as well.

Thanks again!

-RT-

How does the Marine Orbital Bombardment work anyway?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:How does the Marine Orbital Bombardment work anyway?

BYE

It's a once per game S10 AP1 Ordnance blast. It's always resolved like a barrage with unlimited range but the CM must remain stationary during that movement phase. It also counts as firing a ranged weapon for the CM.

Ratbarf wrote:Yah its been a heavy weapon for an entire edition. Where have you been.

Which codex do you have that counts it as a Heavy weapon? I looked in all of my 3rd to 5th codexes, all have it as Assault 1. 2nd Ed does not list it as "Move or Fire", which is the precursor to "Heavy X" of later Editions. It WAS a "Heavy" with a 2" penalty when it was added in the Rogue Trader era though.

I borrowed a copy of the new codex from the internet nad have played a game with it. All of the stuff that looks over powered is very cost-prohibitive. Sternguard vets must be deployed on the table to make their points back, but being able to choose which ammo they shoot every round is a big help. Their intended purpose is to be used as a firebase.

I have also reread the rules. The terminator entry does only state that they can take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. The only reason I can think of that they buffed the Drop Pod carrying capacity is so you can attach a character in Terminator Armour to a full sized squad. However, you can pay 10 pts. to attach a homing beacon to the drop pod so your terminators don't scatter when they teleport. The rule on the homing beacon is quite nice since it states that it works for anything arriving via deepstrike. This means that even a Vanguard vet squad using Heroic Intervention can drop in on it and assault if it's in range of a unit.

I think this army actually forces you to write a balanced marine list. If you only buy two 5 man squads and park them on an objective so you can buy all the other cool toys, you will lose.

Drop Pod assault also got a lot meaner with deploying half of your pods on first turn. There's an interesting tactic here with Sternguard Vets. Drop in and ruin someone's day with Get's Hot! bolters.

I plan on playing another game with the codex tomorrow, so I'll post my list and let you know how the game went.

Edit: Updated since I returned from classes.

If the Heavy Flamer has always been an Assault Weapon, that's news to me!

Previously only being available to troops or vehicles where it didn't matter what it was has apparently prevented me from remembering this...

Thanks for the update!

Alpharius wrote:Previously only being available to troops or vehicles where it didn't matter what it was has apparently prevented me from remembering this...

Because Sisters are Slow & Purposeful?

OK, I also should have added in "Previously only being available to troops or vehicles IN ARMIES I OWN/PLAY where it didn't matter what it was has apparently prevented me from remembering this..."

Happy?

I should probably also note at this time that I also have never actually played against a Sisters or Witch Hunters force.

In case that matters too.

In the copy I saw online (and haven't popped back into my FLGS to check the actual copy yet) Marneus was able to take up to three Honor Guard squads. Is that still in? That would tend to lend credence to IC's not having to accompany their Command Squads anymore, as I find it difficult for him to lead all three at once. However that does open up interesting opportunities for another IC to lead one of the other Honor Guard Squads.

Edit: And Kudos for them making his alternate armor option not suck immensely this time. Trading Artificer and Iron Halo for Terminator and bupkiss wasn't a trade I was looking to make very often.

Breton wrote:In the copy I saw online (and haven't popped back into my FLGS to check the actual copy yet) Marneus was able to take up to three Honor Guard squads. Is that still in? That would tend to lend credence to IC's not having to accompany their Command Squads anymore, as I find it difficult for him to lead all three at once. However that does open up interesting opportunities for another IC to lead one of the other Honor Guard Squads.

Edit: And Kudos for them making his alternate armor option not suck immensely this time. Trading Artificer and Iron Halo for Terminator and bupkiss wasn't a trade I was looking to make very often.

It's still in there as being able to take three.

Breton wrote:In the copy I saw online (and haven't popped back into my FLGS to check the actual copy yet) Marneus was able to take up to three Honor Guard squads. Is that still in? That would tend to lend credence to IC's not having to accompany their Command Squads anymore, as I find it difficult for him to lead all three at once. However that does open up interesting opportunities for another IC to lead one of the other Honor Guard Squads.

Edit: And Kudos for them making his alternate armor option not suck immensely this time. Trading Artificer and Iron Halo for Terminator and bupkiss wasn't a trade I was looking to make very often.

Yup, Honor Guards and Command Squads are no longer retinues.

I just got my copy along with the spearhead box set.

All i can say is OMG its all beautiful. Im so excited by the drop pod and scout bikers, great models but i need a lot more!

I borrowed a copy of the new codex from the internet nad have played a game with it. All of the stuff that looks over powered is very cost-prohibitive. Sternguard vets must be deployed on the table to make their points back, but being able to choose which ammo they shoot every round is a big help. Their intended purpose is to be used as a firebase.

Making points back is a 4th edition mindset that does not carry over to 5th (and many argue it was a bad way of assessing viability in the first place). There are no more victory points and you cannot assign a value to a unit which contests and objective that your enemy would have otherwise captured.

Furthermore, 24" range doesn't make for a great firebase. I think they are far more effective when transported. Personally, I plan on using them in a Drop Pod so I can be virtually guaranteed to show up within rapid fire range of my target and lay down some serious hurt (2x combimelta, 2x heavy flamer as salamanders).

Grandmaster wrote:I just got my copy along with the spearhead box set.

All i can say is OMG its all beautiful. Im so excited by the drop pod and scout bikers, great models but i need a lot more!

I thought the Spearhead wasn't due out until the 20th?

You can get it now from independent retailers. My local GW should get 5 in today.

Breton wrote:

I thought the Spearhead wasn't due out until the 20th?

Pre-ordered spearhead boxes were out in:

Germany 11 september
UK 15 september
Canada 17 september

I think 20th was meant to be "officially" in stores.

I had a offer to bye it and take it home last week.
but have to many thinks alradie en pre ordert the spesifics I wanted.

Has anyone tried 9 Flamer/Melta Speeders with Vulcan He'stan? Not for a light terrain board but fun like hell.

pakman wrote:I borrowed a copy of the new codex from the internet nad have played a game with it. All of the stuff that looks over powered is very cost-prohibitive. Sternguard vets must be deployed on the table to make their points back, but being able to choose which ammo they shoot every round is a big help. Their intended purpose is to be used as a firebase.

I have also reread the rules. The terminator entry does only state that they can take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. The only reason I can think of that they buffed the Drop Pod carrying capacity is so you can attach a character in Terminator Armour to a full sized squad. However, you can pay 10 pts. to attach a homing beacon to the drop pod so your terminators don't scatter when they teleport. The rule on the homing beacon is quite nice since it states that it works for anything arriving via deepstrike. This means that even a Vanguard vet squad using Heroic Intervention can drop in on it and assault if it's in range of a unit.

I think this army actually forces you to write a balanced marine list. If you only buy two 5 man squads and park them on an objective so you can buy all the other cool toys, you will lose.

Drop Pod assault also got a lot meaner with deploying half of your pods on first turn. There's an interesting tactic here with Sternguard Vets. Drop in and ruin someone's day with Get's Hot! bolters.

I plan on playing another game with the codex tomorrow, so I'll post my list and let you know how the game went.

Edit: Updated since I returned from classes.

I don't think Teleport Homers work on the pods they are attached to, IE they must already be on the table at the start of the turn not on the specific unit/vehicle/doohickey as it is deep-striking in.

Anyways, I looked at those Psychic powers for the Librarian and holy shnikies! Plus, they get 2 FREE powers from the 8 available. Good Lord.

Looks like banners in Honor Guard and Command Squads will be a bitch in Assaults unless you have a large unit balls deep in an assault. I'm not as worried now after seeing all the points cost of the units.

Can assault squads still have flamers?? 2?

yeah, i think you can have 1 plasma pistol or 1 flamer per five marines in the squad.

migsula wrote:Can assault squads still have flamers?? 2?

yup

Rosicrucian wrote:

migsula wrote:Can assault squads still have flamers?? 2?

yup

Having starting to play with list building...

Sternguard are outstanding. I'm having trouble working up enthusiasm for Vanguard.

"Bare Naked" sternguard without upgrades seem better period, let alone better point for point than Vanguard. Obviously, situationally Vanguard have their uses but comparing Sternguard to a tac squad, and Vanguard to an Assault squad.. I don't think Vanguard are better enough to justify the huge point costs compared to the upgrade from Tac to Sternguard. Cant understand ever giving a Sternguard Vet a Stormbolter.

The Mole Mor.... I mean the Thunderfire Cannon is growing on me. Heavy4, Blast is making me feel less irritated at them for robbing from themselves. Especially if sticking a gun servitor squad in front of the thing to provide a cover save.

Marneus is finally nice again. He was nice in 2nd, and boned in 3rd and 4th.

Tigurius is still nice.

Cassius got a major major boost.

Sicarius isn't bad but feels destined to odd-man-out status to me.

Lysander- Nice, but lost his Deathwing Assault mimicry which seems like a minor downgrade from where he was. (if ignoring the stat changes that were pretty standard)

Shrike. Nice, but also feels a little less nice compared to what he was.

Kantor. Dorn's Arrow and Hold The Line! stand out.

Kor'sarro Khan. Being almost completely ignored, but some hefty trickery and tactics available.

Telion. Brutal- Being able to allocate his rending wounds yourself... ouch.

Chronus. Also Brutal... BS 5 MultiMelta on the LRC, two BS5 Hurricane Bolters, PoTM the TL AC. The LRC is mean now.

The Redeemer... PoTM + opposite sponson Flame Cannon. Yum!

General stat line changes:

Scouts took a hit, and got some love at the same time that seems to more or less cancel out.. I lean towards less, but not enough to make me stop taking them.

There seems to be a definite push to make the Commander archtype the close combat monster in the SM list. Masters and Captains got major love, Chaplains and Librarians took a fairly large hit on their stat-lines. Librarians got some amazing powers though.

I definitely feel like GW decided to play Nun-With-A-Ruler and smacked us, collectively, on the back of the hand for the 6 man las/plas. They not only made them impossible, they rewarded taking more "fluffy" unit choices via free upgrades.

New Toys that haven't gotten much Press:

Aux Grenade Launchers. Oof-Dah! Rapid Fire and/or Melta/Pistol/etc shooting + a 12" Assault 1 frag or Krak Grenade? Available to Honor Guard, DIY Captains/Masters, and maybe some others.

Hellfire Rounds. Like the Shells, only for boltguns. Also works on SM Bike TL Bolters... entertaining to say the least.

I wasn't entirely impressed with what they did to Librarians. Sure the new powers are cool and such, but they are no longer the combat gods they used to be. I took a Librarian in termi armor with a storm bolter and soon realized what a mistake that was. He only gets his two base attacks in combat, that's it. The better way to kit out your librarians now is with a storm shield and a force weapon. The 3+ invul all the time is better than termi armor will ever be since he is the only vanilla marine HW that comes without an invul. Sure you still only get your two base attacks, but you have a better chance at surviving. I miss being able to grant him termi honors for that extra PW swing.

Edit: I just reread the codex and it states that you can only give him the storm shield if you give him terminator armor. Oh well.

Not sure if anyone else has flagged this up, but Landspeeders have got a wider range of weapon options.

Like, I dunno, 2 Assault Cannons.....or 2 Multimeltas. Or even 2 Heavy Flamers. Bitching huh?

Power of the Machine Spirit lost its BS2 drawback.. thus your extra weapon fires at BS4 or BS 5 with Chronus

Rosicrucian wrote:

Breton wrote:In the copy I saw online (and haven't popped back into my FLGS to check the actual copy yet) Marneus was able to take up to three Honor Guard squads. Is that still in? That would tend to lend credence to IC's not having to accompany their Command Squads anymore, as I find it difficult for him to lead all three at once. However that does open up interesting opportunities for another IC to lead one of the other Honor Guard Squads.

Edit: And Kudos for them making his alternate armor option not suck immensely this time. Trading Artificer and Iron Halo for Terminator and bupkiss wasn't a trade I was looking to make very often.

Yup, Honor Guards and Command Squads are no longer retinues.

Since when? Marneus Calgar is the exception for retinue squads, not the rule...

most of my questions where answered but here's my new ones.

can you upgrade the scout speeders to carry multi melta's?

I'm doing a templar hospitlar army, and all my scouts are going to be converted from other models to be 'nurse core' I plan on making their transport from the OOP pewter speeders but before I make molds and put all this time into them can I even do it?


and please don't start the mold fight with me I'm more concerned with the use of penny's under bases as weights legal issues.

moosifer wrote:

Rosicrucian wrote:

Breton wrote:In the copy I saw online (and haven't popped back into my FLGS to check the actual copy yet) Marneus was able to take up to three Honor Guard squads. Is that still in? That would tend to lend credence to IC's not having to accompany their Command Squads anymore, as I find it difficult for him to lead all three at once. However that does open up interesting opportunities for another IC to lead one of the other Honor Guard Squads.

Edit: And Kudos for them making his alternate armor option not suck immensely this time. Trading Artificer and Iron Halo for Terminator and bupkiss wasn't a trade I was looking to make very often.

Yup, Honor Guards and Command Squads are no longer retinues.

Since when? Marneus Calgar is the exception for retinue squads, not the rule...

The way they're written and presented in the codex, it appears as if they function as they do in Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

wash-away wrote:can you upgrade the scout speeders to carry multi melta's?

Yes. It's slightly more expensive than it is for the standard landspeeder. Also, the scout landspeeders only get one heavy weapon mount, not the two possible on the standard landspeeders. I guess the cerebus launcher is tying up the other hardpoint.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Not sure if anyone else has flagged this up, but Landspeeders have got a wider range of weapon options.

Like, I dunno, 2 Assault Cannons.....or 2 Multimeltas. Or even 2 Heavy Flamers. Bitching huh?

Keep in mind the 5E changes to defensive weapon strength. If you move the speeder, you're only going to firing one of those weapons. In my mind, it almost makes the speeder the rare case where taking weapons with different purposes (i.e. HB and MM) makes sense. If you can only fire one weapon after moving, you might as well have an anti-troop option as well as an anti-tank option. Alternately, taking more speeders with only one weapon on them becomes an economical choice, especially with a HB+AC speeder costing 90% of the price of two HB speeders -- especially when you consider that, if moving, the HB+AC speeder will only get 3 or 4 shots, while the 2 HB speeders will still get all 6, and the source of those 6 shots takes twice as much killing to get rid of.

To make it three landspeeder-related posts in a row, anyone else notice that it's cheaper to replace the speeder's HB with a MM, and then give it a HB under the Tornado-pattern options than it is to keep the issued HB and then give the speeder a Tornado-pattern MM?

Forgive me if this was noted earlier, I skipped the middle 10 or so pages of this thread due to general snarkiness and wishlisting.

It wasn't noted, because it's not true.
10+10 = 0+20

lord_blackfang wrote:It wasn't noted, because it's not true.
10+10 = 0+20

You know...you're right. That's what I get for trying to do simple math at 4AM.

Can someone let me know what the size (min and max) and options are for bike squads?

What can they take? How much?

Can the sergeant take anything different?

Thanks!

Alpharius wrote:Can someone let me know what the size (min and max) and options are for bike squads?

3 +5 +1 trike

What can they take? How much?

2x of these: flamer/meltagun/plasmagun

Can the sergeant take anything different?

yes.
plasmapistol/combi-bolter/powerweapon/powerfist/meltabomb

Awesome!

And thanks for the fast response!

I do like that they've upped the max size for bike squads this go round. I haven't used bikes in a long time(since White Scars had an actual list and rules), I hated the 5 man limit on squads.

Since we're playing Q and A... What kind of wargear/weapon options are there for Terminator Sergeants? Please tell me they're not suck with measly power weapons while the rest of their squad totes Power Fists.

Aduro wrote:Since we're playing Q and A... What kind of wargear/weapon options are there for Terminator Sergeants? Please tell me they're not suck with measly power weapons while the rest of their squad totes Power Fists.

Negative he has no options (although a more liberal reading might allow you to give him one of the heavy weapons). The assault Terminator Seargeant is identical to his fellow in every respect (both equipment and statline) and therefore can swap his claws for TH/SS jsut as they can.

Jack

Boourns!

Next question. If you were to take the Salamanders guy, Vulkan I believe, as well as Kantor of the Crimson Fists, do you get Vulkan's flamers plus Kantor's scoring Sternguard?

@ aduro -- nope, sternguard scoring (as well as stubborn) is part of Kantor' chapter tactics, so you'll have to choose which ones from game to game. Kantor's Inspiring presence is not tied to chapter tactics though.

derek wrote:I do like that they've upped the max size for bike squads this go round. I haven't used bikes in a long time(since White Scars had an actual list and rules), I hated the 5 man limit on squads.

Wait!

I took that as MIN 3 and MAX 5 with 1 attack bike optional.

So, is it really MIN 3 and MAX 8 plus 1 attack bike optional?

Alpharius wrote:

derek wrote:I do like that they've upped the max size for bike squads this go round. I haven't used bikes in a long time(since White Scars had an actual list and rules), I hated the 5 man limit on squads.

Wait!

I took that as MIN 3 and MAX 5 with 1 attack bike optional.

So, is it really MIN 3 and MAX 8 plus 1 attack bike optional?

3-8 Bikes per squad, plus 0-1 Attack Bike.

They Combat Squad into 5 Bikes / 3 Bikes + 1 Attack Bike (5 wounds per squad).

winterman wrote:@ aduro -- nope, sternguard scoring (as well as stubborn) is part of Kantor' chapter tactics, so you'll have to choose which ones from game to game. Kantor's Inspiring presence is not tied to chapter tactics though.

Correct, Kantor's Chapter Tactics is identical to Lysander's (they both grant Stubborn) but with the odd addition of invoking a second special rule "Hold the Line" which is the rule which grants Sternguard scoring status (I foresee this causing some confusion at times as "Hold the Line" itself only says that it makes sterngaurd scoring, not that it is a component of Chapter Tactics).

Jack

Without having read the codex (obviously) it's kind of a toss up for me on if I want to use a "counts as" Kantor or Vulkan.

On the one hand, I've been a Salamanders player since they got their rules in the Armageddon book. I'm a fan of the flames, and have all my squads made up with either twin flamers or twin meltas. The new codex taking that option away is a real thorn to me.

On the other hand, I'm also heavily themed around Power Fists, so to have the leader of the army, Vulkan, not have one of my iconic red Power Fists is a real turn off. This immediately attracts me to Kantor, because he has a Power Fist. The scoring Strenguard is nice as well, as my marines have tended to be a small elite type force, and I've been real interested in the extra eliteness of the Sternguard.

It's a tough pull between the opposing sides of Burning heathen scum vs smashing their face in.

Aduro wrote:On the one hand, I've been a Salamanders player since they got their rules in the Armageddon book. I'm a fan of the flames, and have all my squads made up with either twin flamers or twin meltas. The new codex taking that option away is a real thorn to me.

That's a pain, but as compensation you get free Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas. That's quite nice, especially given you don't have to pay for it, except the price of the Special Character.

All us Word Bearer players got were Generic Daemons.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Aduro wrote:On the one hand, I've been a Salamanders player since they got their rules in the Armageddon book. I'm a fan of the flames, and have all my squads made up with either twin flamers or twin meltas. The new codex taking that option away is a real thorn to me.

That's a pain, but as compensation you get free Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas. That's quite nice, especially given you don't have to pay for it, except the price of the Special Character.

All us Word Bearer players got were Generic Daemons.

BYE

You forgot the free loss of identity.

So, is it really MIN 3 and MAX 8 plus 1 attack bike optional?

This is correct. It almost makes me want to try to put my bike army back together, and paint white...

derek wrote:You forgot the free loss of identity.

You still have a special character that lets you play Salamanders. Every Chaos army is 'Counts As' now, just the way JohnHwangDD likes it.

BYE

i have a question of the artilary gun i think its called Thunderfire or something like that.
my friend says that for each shot you fire you place four ordenace tamplates.
now this scares the green out of my ork horde, so is it true??


p.s sorry for bad gramma

No. The Thunderfire places 4 Small Blast templates, not the Large (Ordnance) Template.

It should still scare you, just not as much.l

Jackmojo wrote:

winterman wrote:@ aduro -- nope, sternguard scoring (as well as stubborn) is part of Kantor' chapter tactics, so you'll have to choose which ones from game to game. Kantor's Inspiring presence is not tied to chapter tactics though.

Correct, Kantor's Chapter Tactics is identical to Lysander's (they both grant Stubborn) but with the odd addition of invoking a second special rule "Hold the Line" which is the rule which grants Sternguard scoring status (I foresee this causing some confusion at times as "Hold the Line" itself only says that it makes sterngaurd scoring, not that it is a component of Chapter Tactics).

Jack

Hold the Line is only granted by Kantor's Chapter Tactics entry, he does not have it listed separately under his Army list entry.

Breton wrote:Hellfire Rounds. Like the Shells, only for boltguns. Also works on SM Bike TL Bolters... entertaining to say the least.

Is it even possible get Hellfire Rounds and Bike on the same model?

MinMax wrote:They Combat Squad into 5 Bikes / 3 Bikes + 1 Attack Bike (5 wounds per squad).

Do they? Doesn't the Combat Squad rule require the squad to number 10 models (not wounds) in order to use?

Yes, DIY Masters and Captains can take both the bolts, and the bike. I thought I remembered Command Squad being able to, but no.

However imagine your Master and his Honor Guard all with auxilliary grenade launchers... fire your bolt pistols, and one S6 AP4 grenade a piece, then charge into close combat swinging power weapons. The auxilliary grenade launcher fires in addition to any other weapons you want to fire, and is 12" Assault1.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Breton wrote:Hellfire Rounds. Like the Shells, only for boltguns. Also works on SM Bike TL Bolters... entertaining to say the least.

Is it even possible get Hellfire Rounds and Bike on the same model?

MinMax wrote:They Combat Squad into 5 Bikes / 3 Bikes + 1 Attack Bike (5 wounds per squad).

Do they? Doesn't the Combat Squad rule require the squad to number 10 models (not wounds) in order to use?

Hellfire shells are only available to HQs from what I see (Other than Scout Hvy Bolters). It does state specifically if a model carries hellfire shells, it then replaces their bolter rounds (including bike). So you could take an Captain/Chapter Master on bike and arm them with hellfire for a small cost.

The bike entry specifically states that a full bike squad (8 bikes + 1 attack bike) can be split. In this case, 5 normal bikes and 3 + Attack bike. The bike entry is the only exception to combat squad = 10.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

derek wrote:You forgot the free loss of identity.

You still have a special character that lets you play Salamanders. Every Chaos army is 'Counts As' now, just the way JohnHwangDD likes it.

BYE

C'mon HBMC, you know you can use the new Space Marine book with allied Inquisition and Guard units to "Count As" word bearers.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Hellfire shells are only available to HQs from what I see (Other than Scout Hvy Bolters).

Shells and rounds are different. Shells are fired by heavy bolters as a blast AP- ... rounds are rapid fired, no blast AP5

temprus wrote:

Jackmojo wrote:

winterman wrote:@ aduro -- nope, sternguard scoring (as well as stubborn) is part of Kantor' chapter tactics, so you'll have to choose which ones from game to game. Kantor's Inspiring presence is not tied to chapter tactics though.

Correct, Kantor's Chapter Tactics is identical to Lysander's (they both grant Stubborn) but with the odd addition of invoking a second special rule "Hold the Line" which is the rule which grants Sternguard scoring status (I foresee this causing some confusion at times as "Hold the Line" itself only says that it makes sterngaurd scoring, not that it is a component of Chapter Tactics).

Jack

Hold the Line is only granted by Kantor's Chapter Tactics entry, he does not have it listed separately under his Army list entry.

True, I was thinking about how his description page is laid out, rather then his army list entry.

Jack

Breton wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Hellfire shells are only available to HQs from what I see (Other than Scout Hvy Bolters).

Shells and rounds are different. Shells are fired by heavy bolters as a blast AP- ... rounds are rapid fired, no blast AP5

Yeah, just typed the wrong word

H.B.M.C. wrote:

derek wrote:You forgot the free loss of identity.

You still have a special character that lets you play Salamanders. Every Chaos army is 'Counts As' now, just the way JohnHwangDD likes it.

BYE

You misunderstood, I was talking about Word Bearers.

Edit2-double click deletions are bad.

whitedragon wrote:C'mon HBMC, you know you can use the new Space Marine book with allied Inquisition and Guard units to "Count As" word bearers.

And Alpha Legion.

And then I can use the new Marine Codex to do Night Lords and Iron Warriors as well. Counts As is awesome! I wish I'd come over to DD's line of thinking a long time ago.

BYE

Don't forget the World Eaters. I'm sick to death of having to proxy World Eaters Devastators with Havocs and an Icon of Khorne!

Why would World Eaters have Havocs? Arne't they the in your face chapter? I always assumed they would deal with armour the same way orcs do. Dudes on bikes with fists.

Khorne should represent martial prowess in all its forms, including gunplay. It's just unfortunate that the Chaos Gods have been distilled into pale shadows of their former selves. Now all Khorne does is "RAAAR! KILL! MAIM! CUT HEADS OFF! GRRR! ANGRY!" which is disturbingly dull.

I want the old rivalries to come back the way they were meant to be:

Khorne - Power through Focus vs Slaanesh - Power through Excess

Nurgle - Power through Stagnation vs Tzeentch - Power through Change

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Khorne should represent martial prowess in all its forms, including gunplay. It's just unfortunate that the Chaos Gods have been distilled into pale shadows of their former selves. Now all Khorne does is "RAAAR! KILL! MAIM! CUT HEADS OFF! GRRR! ANGRY!" which is disturbingly dull.

I want the old rivalries to come back the way they were meant to be:

Khorne - Power through Focus vs Slaanesh - Power through Excess

Nurgle - Power through Stagnation vs Tzeentch - Power through Change

BYE

That reminds me of my 20,000 + Chaos army I am in the progress of building. I call it, "You can do it in Apocalypse". Best part, I can toss in demons and a couple Soul Grinders without messing around with their stupid HQ options. I have already started.



I am going to have to remember that one. Maybe I will convert slutty knife chicks out of the plastic range and use metal demonettes.

note: The washers are 50mm for Warmachine and Hordes, if you are wondering. The bitz come from the Warstore. Got some cool stuff. Ogres and Beastmen with Imperial weaponry. Not to go off topic.

Ratbarf wrote:Why would World Eaters have Havocs? Arne't they the in your face chapter?

World Eaters have always had Havocs - Khorne doesn't care if the skulls are from a chainsword or a heavy bolter. Of course, World Eaters were dumbed down and their so-called, once-vaunted martial prowess was reduced to being a mindless wind-up... That was a lot of fun to watch.

In this respect, the 5E Codex is much preferred having Berzerkers as Troops, along with many MoK options gets things very close. The only missing element are the high-detail Daemons.

i have Q about the thunderfire gun if you kill the techmarine is the gun removed/unable to fire or do i need to take them both out ?

Brightdarkness wrote:i have Q about the thunderfire gun if you kill the techmarine is the gun removed/unable to fire or do i need to take them both out ?

Artillery guns are removed from play if the crew is wiped out.

Can anyone confirm the following:
1. Space Marines are mammals
2. Space Marines fight ALL the time
3. The purpose of a Space Marine is to flip out and kill people

4. Sarcasm to that degree on page 18 of a thread that was played out long ago AND for a Codex that is released this weekend? Not priceless.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:Why would World Eaters have Havocs? Arne't they the in your face chapter?

World Eaters have always had Havocs - Khorne doesn't care if the skulls are from a chainsword or a heavy bolter. Of course, World Eaters were dumbed down and their so-called, once-vaunted martial prowess was reduced to being a mindless wind-up... That was a lot of fun to watch.

In this respect, the 5E Codex is much preferred having Berzerkers as Troops, along with many MoK options gets things very close. The only missing element are the high-detail Daemons.

With the advent of the latest Codex, it would appear that the 4 Legions are paragons of their God's way. Ergo, all World Eaters are indeed Bezerkers (especially with the mental enhancement to really make them loonies) but not all Bezerkers are World Eaters.

Thus, a Khornate Army could well have Havocs marked by Khorne, but World Eaters are unlikely to. Hell, they preferred HTH anyways.

scouts if i remember right are now WS & BS 3. Im happy for that because my brother used ALOT of scouts because they were cheaper marines with a 4+ save. so he would usually over run my renegades with bolter fire. that makes me happy because now they are basically glorified IG lmao

Scouts are not glorified IG. A power weapon hits at I 4. A fist hits at strenght 8 not 6. they have infiltrate which makes all the difference in the world. They can ride in a landspeeder. No IG can do any of those things.

Bodichi wrote:Scouts are not glorified IG. A power weapon hits at I 4. A fist hits at strenght 8 not 6. they have infiltrate which makes all the difference in the world. They can ride in a landspeeder. No IG can do any of those things.

Plenty of Guard can Infiltrate. And, come to think of it, plenty of Guard have Power Weapons hitting at I 4.

But who's taking Power Weapons in a Guard army???

BYE

Savnock wrote:Another new thing, haven't seen this anywhere: Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn. They pass automatically when accompanied by a techmarine/Master of the Forge. They can be bought as separate units though, and not as gear for the techmarine. Didn't check out unit size, costs, etc. unfortunately. Not optimal at all, but will be fun rules to use for some custom scenario battles.

Anyone have any info on servitor squads minus the techmarine?

They're a unit that has no new models, therefore they got crappy rules.

End of story.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're a unit that has no new models, therefore they got crappy rules.

End of story.

BYE

Yes, but how im needing info on the unit itself. Unit size, options, that sort of thing. I dont care about point costs.

Oh and rules are for chumps. I solely choose units based on how they look, or fluff reasons. That said, I also never win a game.

redstarone wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're a unit that has no new models, therefore they got crappy rules.

End of story.

BYE

Yes, but how im needing info on the unit itself. Unit size, options, that sort of thing. I dont care about point costs.

Oh and rules are for chumps. I solely choose units based on how they look, or fluff reasons. That said, I also never win a game.

Can have one unit per techmarine or master of the forge. Squad size is one to five, two can have hb, melta, or plasma.

Given the abundance of 4+ cover they might work, and two Plasmas or HBs can't be a bad thing.

Sadly their points are off, with the first one costing 10, and then the others cost 15 each!?!?!?!?!

5 of them plus a Techmarine and 2 HBs is 160 points.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Given the abundance of 4+ cover they might work, and two Plasmas or HBs can't be a bad thing.

Sadly their points are off, with the first one costing 10, and then the others cost 15 each!?!?!?!?!

5 of them plus a Techmarine and 2 HBs is 160 points.

BYE

Which is why in comparison to an allied inquisitor it's not a good buy, unless you REALLY want that techmarine, or two plasma cannons. Elite Inquisitor with psycannon, and 3 servitors with heavy bolters is 125, and can be upgraded with useful things like mystics.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Khorne should represent martial prowess in all its forms, including gunplay. It's just unfortunate that the Chaos Gods have been distilled into pale shadows of their former selves. Now all Khorne does is "RAAAR! KILL! MAIM! CUT HEADS OFF! GRRR! ANGRY!" which is disturbingly dull.

I want the old rivalries to come back the way they were meant to be:

Khorne - Power through Focus vs Slaanesh - Power through Excess

Nurgle - Power through Stagnation vs Tzeentch - Power through Change

BYE

The Legions have evolved though.

A majority of Chaos Marines are basically Pirates, allying together to perform an attack, and then going their seperate ways.

And now, the Legions stand for the glorious extremes of their Gods. Those so inclined will join those Legions, and the former Legionnaires who did not feel their Gods calling so strongly left to form their own force. The forces of Chaos, in their organisation, are simply nowhere near as rigidly drawn as the Imperiums. At least, not until you dedicate yourself utterly to the Legion of a specific God.