I saw the new SM codex tonight at GW retail store.

For sure things......

First 50 pages are fluff....history of Ultramarines amongst other things

Codex is 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch thick....thick as dvd movie case, or so

Marines are still 15 pts.

Tactical squads base price is 90 pts, includes vet sgt, but he is not called vet sgt.

Marneus Calgar 250 pts

Tigerius 220 or 230 pts (sorry on this one) with 2 wounds and BS 4

New Land Speeder holds 5 scouts (scouts only)

Redeemer Land Raider carries 12 troops

Tank IC is 70 pts, increases tank to BS 5

Predator starts at 60 pts armed with autocannon. Add HB sponsons for 25 or LC for 60 pts

Tech Marine is 50 pts. Can have 4 servitors, only 2 can carry heavy weapons

Apothecary is auto in command squad and he gives squad FNP as long as he is alive.

Landspeeders are 50 pts, adding AC is 40 pts

Hunter Killer missiles are 10 pts

It has become foggy (my memory) I just glanced over it and drove 100 miles in rain storm after seeing it.

If this has been discussed already sorry in advance......

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Landspeeders are 50 pts, adding AC is 40 pts

This one I knew already, but it's no less funny.


A big 'hurray' for overbalancing!!!

BYE

Something is overpriced at 80? Quick, make it 90!

Tigerius 220 or 230 pts (sorry on this one) with 2 wounds and BS 4
and can cast 3 psychic powers a turn. Eldred is pissed, to be sure.

New Land Speeder holds 5 scouts (scouts only)
The LS is bought from Fast attack, but the scouts are troops, so I'd assume still scoring

Tank IC is 70 pts, increases tank to BS 5
and the tank can't be stunned or shaken

Shrike gives his army 'fleet', and the squad he's in 'infiltrate'
Vulcan gives Mastercrafter hammers, twin linked flamers and meltas.

If you take a bike mounted Captain, bikes are troops.

Master of the Forge has the Cbeamer, and lets you take dreads as heavies or elites.

Vanguard that deepstrike can assault if they don't shoot or run.

one honorguard squad per chaptermaster, up to 10 in the squad, come with power weapons and artificer armor, 2 attacks, banner that adds 1 attack, and can be given other weapons.

Chapter Masters can drop an orbital strike: large blast, AP1, str10.

what about costs for scouts(w/sniper rifles and/or camo cloaks)?
how much is the typhoon missile launcher for the land speeder?

mothman_451 wrote:what about costs for scouts(w/sniper rifles and/or camo cloaks)?
how much is the typhoon missile launcher for the land speeder?

Sorry didn't look at everything.....

what about storm shields on librarians
dreadnaughts with assault cannons and heavy flamers
combi weapons for anyone

Also, saw the new drop pod

Solid model. missile launcher or storm bolter is inside and spins. Very detailed. Doors open well, lay flat and close staying up when you let go. Almost too much detail inside pod.

I compare sturdiness of model to that of Land Raider.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Landspeeders are 50 pts, adding AC is 40 pts

This one I knew already, but it's no less funny.


A big 'hurray' for overbalancing!!!

BYE

The problem is that the old model landspeeders are old and don't run as well as they used to so they require a lot of points to be able to carry an AC.

Fortunately the new model scoutspeeders are new so they will be capable of carrying new rules and won't require nearly as many points to operate.

Don't worry though. In a couple of years it will be noticed that no one uses the old landspeeder anymore so a new model landspeeder will be released and because it's new it will go back to requiring less points and maybe have new rules.

Another new thing, haven't seen this anywhere: Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn. They pass automatically when accompanied by a techmarine/Master of the Forge. They can be bought as separate units though, and not as gear for the techmarine. Didn't check out unit size, costs, etc. unfortunately. Not optimal at all, but will be fun rules to use for some custom scenario battles.

Savnock wrote:Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn.

Can you tell they're not getting a new model kit?

BYE

Savnock wrote:Another new thing, haven't seen this anywhere: Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn. They pass automatically when accompanied by a techmarine/Master of the Forge. They can be bought as separate units though, and not as gear for the techmarine. Didn't check out unit size, costs, etc. unfortunately. Not optimal at all, but will be fun rules to use for some custom scenario battles.

Want to say servitor is 15 or 25 pts each with HB upgrade +10 pts. Don't hold that as stone cold truth, though.

Nicest thing I noticed (for me anyways) is that terminators can use the combat squad rule, so you can have six 5 man termies squads.

Not quite deathwing, but not bad.

Does the Terminator Sergeant have any options?

BYE

Nah, just the same old same old. Storm bolter, power weapon.

The entry is pretty generic as one might expect.

ATSKNF, Combat squads, Combat tactics

For every 5 men, you may have a heavy weapon. 5 man base @ 200 points, X points per termie thereafter. (Termies are the same price as they are now)

Cannot take a drop pod, but my take a landraider as a dedicated transport, which is really nice actually.

*looks at codex*
Cyclones and assault cannons are the same price. Assault cannon and Heavy flamer price hasn't changed.

why have they bothered saying the drop pod can carry 12/6 if you cant put termies in a drop pod (why cant they?)
what is the techmarine armed with to justify the points decrease(in comparison to BA/DA)i, did they get rid of anything(power wepaon, artificer armor, servo arm)

12 in a pod so you can add a character or two to the 10 man squad.

If I recall, techmarines still start with the servo arm and artificer, and then pay extra for the harness. Looked the same. Although they can fix a tank they are next to in the shooting phase, letting them move to a tank and fix it in the same turn.

mothman_451 wrote:why have they bothered saying the drop pod can carry 12/6 if you cant put termies in a drop pod (why cant they?)
what is the techmarine armed with to justify the points decrease(in comparison to BA/DA)i, did they get rid of anything(power wepaon, artificer armor, servo arm)

He must buy weapons from choices given. No power weapon to start, but he can get one.

mothman_451 wrote:why have they bothered saying the drop pod can carry 12/6 if you cant put termies in a drop pod (why cant they?)

I don't know.

I could see reasoning to allow 6 termies if the rules were transferred over to armies such as BT, etc... but since those codices are supposedly not getting a FAQ to upgrade the rules for consistency, it makes no darn sense.

i know about attaching the characters but it was not tnecessary to list 12/6 they could of just stated any ic can still join a drop pod squad even if they are already 10 man strong. im still wondering why termies cant have drop pods.
ok so the techmarine doesnt start with a power weapon now. which is fine because its not like he needed it and it would be cheaper just selecting it as normal now. maybe i'll include one in my army if they are only 50 points

@hellfury
exactly, so what was the point of them explaining it could fit 6 terminators, unless it will matter in the future
(if they redo DA/BA/BT, and when they put out Space Wolves and just want it consistent)

does anyone know points on scouts (base cost/snipers/camo cloaks/heavy bolters)?

That is actually really cool. 5 men with two Heavies, 5 men w/ a Character. Or just their Storm Bolters or whatever.

Good way to get Heavy Weapons into Elites (4 shots from Cyclones).

If it was proper Deathwing you could go shooty and close combat.

Wait, so Pred Destructors are only 85 points (10 points cheaper than C: DA and C: BA)? And Land Speeders with Assault Cannons are 90 (again 100 for DA)?

And I can take an entirely bike mounted army with a bike mounted captain?

Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Don't worry Ozzy, I'm sure GW will release and FAQ to update the Dark Ange... wait... oh that's right. They're not.

Never mind.

BYE

i know, my friends want me to start ravenwing(one is DA battle company, the other deathwing), but the rules for SM are just better for everything except an av14 speeder, which i can live without. hopefully people understand and wont mind if i use the new rules

I am still going to play my DA, no matter if they do or don't release a FAQ. My Techmarines dont take a Force Org slot, my termies are Fearless and can mix weapons in the squad.

The new codex is great and I know I will get a copy, but I play DA for the fluff and the fact I enjoy the army, not purely for the rules benefits.

*gives all the loyalist players a sullen emo-renegade marine stare. eyeliner included*

It's not fair!

mothman_451 wrote:
what was the point of them explaining it could fit 6 terminators, unless it will matter in the future

The other possibility is that they want to make the unit entries flexible for people who don't use the army list from the book for whatever reason (special scenarios and such).

mothman_451 wrote:
exactly, so what was the point of them explaining it could fit 6 terminators, unless it will matter in the future
(if they redo DA/BA/BT, and when they put out Space Wolves and just want it consistent)

The only reason I can see for this is for the Space Wolves. Under their current FAQ Space Wolves use the Codex: Space Marine rules for drop pods but use their list for eligible units and one of those eligible units happens to be terminators.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Marines are NOT 15 points.

A tac squad is 90 points for 5 incl sergeant, and then it's 16pts per model to grow it. which means 170 points for 10 which gets you 10 marines incl seargent as well as a free flamer and a free HB / ML.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Savnock wrote:Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn.

Can you tell they're not getting a new model kit?

Pretty slowed since nobody in their right minds used Servitors anyway, this is just some idiot rules writer edited for being NASTY - Iorek on the page..

Before, we were told "the new codex isn't overpowered, just wait when the points costs come out and you'll see". Now we've heard Marines are still 15 points each, despite being given everything under the Sun and the Moon. So, any of those appeasing voices care to pipe up now? How is this anything but a lame jerkaround and across-the-board boost?

See above post. THEY ARE NOT 15 POINTS.

For Chaos marines, a five man unit is 105 points, which makes them more expensive. Then, at ten men they get a free flamer and ML, which basically recoups the losses of being a point more.
Yay for being a chaos marine!

Is the sgt in the 10-man squad a vet sgt (or at least does he have the same stats as a vet from the current codex) ?

If so, the cost of this squad in the current codex is:

10x15 (marines)
+15 (vet sgt)
+6 (flamer)
+5 (heavy bolter) or +10 (missile launcher)
total 176 or 181 pts.

So marines are actually cheaper in the new version (170 pts vs 176 or 181)

If the sgt is a normal sgt without improved stats then marines are more expensive (170pts vs 161 or 166)

Do the Marines have BP/CCW and Bolters like the renegades?

Greets
Schepp himself

marines 16 points bdw have frag and krag

Schepp makes the excellent point that CSMs get more weapon options. Marines cannot have BP/CCW unless they are assault squads (which has had me drastically rethink which list I will use for my custom chapter since I used the Traits to give my Tacticals BP/CCWs...)

While I really like the things I have seen in the new Marine list, I still see benefits in the DA and BA lists. It's all about how you want your army to play.

Jeff

Damn, I hoped that they at least have the option for BP/CCW.

Can they have two special weapons if they are 10 en strong? Or is it the usual one heavy/one special weapon combination?

If not, my (far future) planed army would be hard to build.

Greets
Schepp himself

I'd forgotten about the grenades and BP's

Its official - tac marines are cheaper (for the same loadout) than they were before!

JHall wrote:Marines cannot have BP/CCW unless they are assault squads

Well theres you're cause. Its interesting to think that CSM's are more flexible than "Tactical" squads. Needless to say however, we don't get our cool toys like the whirlwind, Razorback etc..

In game terms however, that extra attack can be very useful in CSM/SM combat, and given the mark of khorne makes them even more deadly, with 2/3 attacks, 4 on the charge!

I also noticed, however that their preds are a lot cheaper than ours. :(

Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so Pred Destructors are only 85 points (10 points cheaper than C: DA and C: BA)? And Land Speeders with Assault Cannons are 90 (again 100 for DA)?

And I can take an entirely bike mounted army with a bike mounted captain?

Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Because your bikes scout and outflank and terminators DW assault turn 1!

Stand tall young man. It'll be all right.

does this new dex over write all the spin off, such as Templars? coz i love their models and ba ckground was thinking of starting a small project on them with a competative list in mind.

fitzeh wrote:Marines are NOT 15 points.

A tac squad is 90 points for 5 incl sergeant, and then it's 16pts per model to grow it. which means 170 points for 10 which gets you 10 marines incl seargent as well as a free flamer and a free HB / ML.

Do some math. 10 tactical marines x 15 pts each = 150pts. 15 pts for vet sgt (already build in). So the 5 points are for the "psuedo-free" weapon upgrades.

The sgt has 2 base attacks and I believe 9 LD

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I saw the new SM codex tonight at GW retail store.

Marines are still 15 pts.

Tactical squads base price is 90 pts, includes vet sgt, but he is not called vet sgt.

marines are SIXTEEN points. a basic unit of ten is 170 before upgrades. (90 + 5x16)

Tech Marine is 50 pts. Can have 4 servitors, only 2 can carry heavy weapons

servitors cost 10 points each and come with servo arms. if they aren't with a techmarine, they can become mind-locked.

also, attack bikes are 40 points base w/heavy bolter

Did they drop the cost of Rhinos to 35? I had heard this was an option.. maybe to make em closer to Drop Pods?

If so, did Razorback price drop too?

I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

-Porkuslime

porkuslime wrote:Did they drop the cost of Rhinos to 35? I had heard this was an option.. maybe to make em closer to Drop Pods?

rhinos are 35. drop pods are ALSO 35.

If so, did Razorback price drop too?

yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

why not!? now you can get a speeder with JUST a heavy flamer on it.

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

typhoons are H2 S8 AP3, and so ar Cyclones (H2)

HarveyDent wrote:yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

Anyone know cost for the Razorback upgrades?

And for that matter, MM and HF Landspeeders?

Lowinor wrote:

HarveyDent wrote:yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

Anyone know cost for the Razorback upgrades?

And for that matter, MM and HF Landspeeders?

TL lascannons are +35. i don't recall the others. i THINK the HF speeder is a free upgrade from the HB, but don't quote me on that. MM is +10 (iirc).

What about Sternguard? After all the hype on them, what's their point cost?

I for one don´t know what to say about any of the new things in the codex...
I knew that they favored UltraSmurfs but this is a bit silly even for GW...


//Edge

Tazok wrote:What about Sternguard? After all the hype on them, what's their point cost?

iirc they are 25 each, but if you take Kantor they are scoring, so you can have an elite army.

their ammo options are really, really powerful (s4 ap3 24" rapid fire, gets hot - this is the best one), especially since you can choose which one you want to use before you fire. another really good one is the standard bolter round that ignores cover saves (dragonfire bolts).

OnTheEdge wrote:I for one don´t know what to say about any of the new things in the codex...
I knew that they favored UltraSmurfs but this is a bit silly even for GW...


//Edge

power gamers will hate this book. every overpowered unit in the book was either neutered, or went way up in cost - anyone who was planning on playing with a specific, powerful unit and use multiples of it is going to have to completely rethink their army.

marine casual players are going to be annoyed because some of their units will be completely changed... while non-marine players will say "hey, awesome, marines aren't that great anymore."

personally, i have about 8 marine armies that must now be completely redone. i'm ok with it i guess, but it's still annoying to have to find new homes for 3 of my now-unusable apothecaries.

@ Harvey:
What, i thought they were useful? FNP for all in a command squad? Or is it just that you don't have command squads, and you can only have them in command?

It is irritating to have to completely reformat your army, but that is the nature of the GW pendulum I guess.

porkuslime wrote:I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

Or magnetize em

blinky wrote:@ Harvey:
What, i thought they were useful? FNP for all in a command squad? Or is it just that you don't have command squads, and you can only have them in command?

It is irritating to have to completely reformat your army, but that is the nature of the GW pendulum I guess.

oh the apothecaries are still good (mainly because they now work in HtH instead of against shooting). but my army had five of them...

other than that, i have no problems with the re-format except that i have to do it with sooo many different SM armies. ahh, whatever. i'll get over it

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Well, Loyalists get that, weaker flexibility, an inability to take 2 assault weapon in a tactical squad, a lower Leadership attribute, and no second close combat weapon in melee.

HarveyDent wrote:TL lascannons are +35. i don't recall the others. i THINK the HF speeder is a free upgrade from the HB, but don't quote me on that. MM is +10 (iirc).

Thanks.

Cost on Power Fist, Thunder Hammer, and combi-weapons on sergeants? I think that's pretty much what I'm missing from finalizing my new army...

Right, as Derling mentioned, there are still lots of good options for CSMs. As someone who has almost 4K of Black Legion painted with almost 70 models of basic CSMs, I still think they pack quite the punch. I love the 2 CCWs and 2 Specials that Chaos can get. Granted, you have to have 10 man or bigger squads to get the 2 Specials, but they still can dish out some firepower.

I would love it for the Loyalists to be able to take 2 Specials. I find Heavy Weapons to be useless in Tactical squads for the most part. Especially now that you can't take a small 5 man squad with a missile launcher or lascannon to park on a hill somewhere.

Ozymandias wrote:Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Because Jervis is a genius and you love the Dark Angels codex with all of your body (including your peepee)?

JHall wrote:Right, as Derling mentioned, there are still lots of good options for CSMs. As someone who has almost 4K of Black Legion painted with almost 70 models of basic CSMs, I still think they pack quite the punch. I love the 2 CCWs and 2 Specials that Chaos can get. Granted, you have to have 10 man or bigger squads to get the 2 Specials, but they still can dish out some firepower.

Yeah, I watched a game a couple of days ago with CSM spam as the primary strategy of the Chaos player and it was surprisingly effective.

Of course, Rhinos are quite good in large quantities, and being able to fill them with reasonably priced, resilient troops happy shooting or in assault is great.

I would love it for the Loyalists to be able to take 2 Specials. I find Heavy Weapons to be useless in Tactical squads for the most part. Especially now that you can't take a small 5 man squad with a missile launcher or lascannon to park on a hill somewhere.

You can still do that with Combat Squads. With dirt cheap HB razorbacks, expect to see exactly that -- 5 marines, sergeant and special weapon in HB Razorback, 5 marines with Lascannon sitting back on a hill.

Schepp himself wrote:Damn, I hoped that they at least have the option for BP/CCW.

Can they have two special weapons if they are 10 en strong? Or is it the usual one heavy/one special weapon combination?

If not, my (far future) planed army would be hard to build.

Greets
Schepp himself

nu but a 5 man team ma take 1 special flamer an melta are free
and a 10 man ma take a extra heavy bolter rocket and multi melta are free

derling wrote:a lower Leadership attribute

Loyalists get a Ld9 srg standard.

JHall wrote:I find Heavy Weapons to be useless in Tactical squads for the most part. Especially now that you can't take a small 5 man squad with a missile launcher or lascannon to park on a hill somewhere.

You can if you split them into combat squads. And the missile launcher is free.

mothman_451 wrote:@hellfury
exactly, so what was the point of them explaining it could fit 6 terminators, unless it will matter in the future
...
...

Sometimes stuff is in codexes because they cut and pasted it from somewhere else without checking, or they wrote a rule during early development and changed it alter but forgot to take the old version of the rule out.

They probably will put Termies in pods though.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

derling wrote:a lower Leadership attribute

Loyalists get a Ld9 srg standard.

And CSM are Ld10 standard, are they not?

Shhh Lormax, you are spoiling people's Space-Marinez-bashing-without-having-seen-the-codex-themselves-ranting.

Jeez, I thought this thread said "facts" in the subject....

derling wrote:Well, Loyalists get that, weaker flexibility, an inability to take 2 assault weapon in a tactical squad, a lower Leadership attribute, and no second close combat weapon in melee.

I don't know about weaker flexibility - The ability to custom your squads via commanders and combat-squad rule vs. KP/Objective missions is huge - and the ability to split the heavy weapon and assault weapon into combat squads mitigates the weakness of taking both in the same unit. Weaker LD on paper maybe, but with auto-regroup, marine squads are good to the last drop.

Here's what erks me a bit about the new marine dex vs. the V4 dexes:

Space Marines:

Changes in force org depending on commander

Special Rules for army (non USR): Combat Tactics, ASTKNF. Arguably 2+ considering that force commander changes can alter combat tactics

Special Rules Exceptions: Many. (Vanguard Vets, Landspeeder Storm etc.)

BA/DA are arguably weaker in comparison, as they loose out on all the special rules, and none of the vehicle erratas appear to be transferring over. As mentioned elsewhere, this is assinine as it will only add confusion. On a fluff note, the vehicle non-similarities are problematic, as the Imperium (and Daemonhunters/Chaos) to an extent use the same STCs. BA/DA special characters are pretty much Gak compared to the new SM characters.

BT might have come out ok, but not many people play them around where I am, so I am unfamiliar with that codex.

Chaos

Single list. V4 removed all alternate force orgs. No force org changes possible

Special Rules for army (non USR): Daemon Summoning. V4 removed all army build specific bonuses

Special Rules Exceptions: Daemons don't use up slots

Chaos is a competitve book, but is extremely bland. Chaos has zero bonuses for fluffy builds and no options for non-standard force-org armies, nor is there any way to gain more utility out of the really Gak units by boosting them through force org changes. Their one special rule is kind of a Gak one and does not have any inherent advantages. Chaos vehicles will probably never be errataed to have (at least) the same troop capacity as the Marine vehicles. I guess they used the extra space to store skulls. Their special characters are all eclipsed in power by the new SM characters - in particular, Arhiman is now no better and more expensive than an upgraded Marine Librarian. Their dreadnoughts, spawn and posessed are hard to use. Bikes were majorly reduced in power from V3 as they lost their all important 2nd attack in CC and with daemons nerfed, they are no longer a used as a summoning platform either.

Eldar

Single list. V4 codex removed all alternate force orgs. No force org changes possible

Special Rules for army (non USR): V4 removed all army special rules. None!

Special Rules Exceptions: Holofields/runes etc.

Eldar is a competitve book, but again lacks from diverse successful builds. Due to their psychic powers, and holofields, they've got a lot of resilience in a few spots, but largely, they are a non-fearless, expensive T3 army. Marine Librarians are arguably stronger than their most potent psykers, possibly equalling Eldrad. Outside of vehicles, Marines can out-fight most of the list and in some cases, out shoot many Eldar units on a 1:1 basis for less points. For an army where the fluff states their troops spend a lifetime honing their abilities, their elite troops are only -equal- to a Marine, often for more points.

Tyranids

Single list. V4 removed all alternate force orgs. No force org changes possible

Special Rules for army (non USR): Synapse

Special Rules Exceptions: Synapse

Tyranids is a competive book... but lacks from diverse successful builds. Many options are never seen, due to their sub-par nature.

Orks
I consider Orks to be essentially a V5 book.

On its own, there are no problems with the new Marine dex, but looking at the 40k system as a whole, I think this reinforces the need for a "ravening hordes style reboot" at the start of a new edition.

missile lancher, heavy bloter and multi melta is free for heavy weapons

Hey, thanks for all the info. Some questions regarding the new dex if you don't mind;

Is the teleport home the scouts carry (Deep strike homer) something they carry...or they throw down on the field and is static?
If it is static (something they throw down), when do they do it?

I guess I'm trying to figure out if scout bikes could scout move before game, move turn 1, the move turn 2 with beacon...and enable the vets to DS/Assault pretty much anywhere you wanted on their side of the board.

Another Landspeeder question.. How much is the Scout Speeder, and Scouts?

I know they downgraded scouts (Waah) but what did the points go to?

Also, how is the Scout Speeder armed?

-Porkuslime

and if you are using more than one you can try and do it with tha flank march tingy sqouts have now

keezus wrote:

derling wrote:Well, Loyalists get that, weaker flexibility, an inability to take 2 assault weapon in a tactical squad, a lower Leadership attribute, and no second close combat weapon in melee.

I don't know about weaker flexibility - The ability to custom your squads via commanders and combat-squad rule vs. KP/Objective missions is huge - and the ability to split the heavy weapon and assault weapon into combat squads mitigates the weakness of taking both in the same unit. Weaker LD on paper maybe, but with auto-regroup, marine squads are good to the last drop.

I can understand what you're saying. The can custom their squads. Of course Chaos has 4 more troop types to choose from. Chaos also has the capacity to yeild little in the way of KP, as the abilty to field 20 man Troop squads can make for an army with few KPs to give.

I'm not saying that CSM are the best list ever, but those that do to just start whining how CSM get the shaft...it seems kind of lanky to me. (though I do think on a single model basis, the CSM may be the most flexible 15pts which can be spent in the game),

keezus wrote:Chaos is a competitve book, but is extremely bland. .

I think in comparison to the CA Cult marine chapters and 4th ed codex, I completely agree with a feeling of blandness and can sympathize with some of the culture shock. Eldar players dealt with an even more extreme selection of options for the duration of 3rd ed and most of 4th ed and complaints were cited there too.

I think the Chaos book is a touch bland in comparison to books like the rumored Marine book, but I think the sentiment expressed in this case is often overstated Given the mass of unit choices, the blandness/maleability comes from a lack of specific of special rules and not in the selection of the army. I think they were strapped down a bit more than it should

keezus wrote:/On its own, there are no problems with the new Marine dex, but looking at the 40k system as a whole, I think this reinforces the need for a "ravening hordes style reboot" at the start of a new edition.

I largely agree. The method of handling it is probably more tricky than just throwing out some FAQS, but I would have liked to see a Ravening Hordes style of correction.

I think it would be much more of a non-issue if BA/DA hadn't come out before this book so recently, as I feel that is really where most of the true trouble stems from.Outside of a touch of blandness and the need for some eventual Cult specific rules(in what ever form they come), I thin the Chaos Codex is a solid, competitive, and versitile list.

derling wrote:Chaos also has the capacity to yeild little in the way of KP, as the abilty to field 20 man Troop squads can make for an army with few KPs to give.

Sure they can bulk up to 20, but Chaos can't split that unit in an objective mission. This is huge in tournament play.

Kilkrazy wrote:

mothman_451 wrote:@hellfury
exactly, so what was the point of them explaining it could fit 6 terminators, unless it will matter in the future
...
...

Sometimes stuff is in codexes because they cut and pasted it from somewhere else without checking, or they wrote a rule during early development and changed it alter but forgot to take the old version of the rule out.

They probably will put Termies in pods though.

Or they forgot to include the DP entry as a transport option for termies in their entry.

Either is just as likely.

I can never get the quote function to work right :(

keezus wrote:
Sure they can bulk up to 20, but Chaos can't split that unit in an objective mission. This is huge in tournament play.

I htink with how scoring units retain scoring status until the last model is dead makes this largely a non-issue. 20 marines running at you in 1 squad or two takes or contests the objective either way as long as a single marine on one of those units is left. 20 marines bolstered by a cult icon benefit greatly

I'm not saying Combat squads isn'rt a great rule in it's own right, but it also has some holes. special models in combat squads get picked off somewhat easily in those squads now, so the lascannon trooper isn't as safe as he used to be.

Chaos marines also get access to their assault weapons as early as the initial purchase of 5 models.

We're really just going back and forth here and I think if we think hard enough about it, we see each other's side. I think it's largley a case of the grass being greener on the other side. I like both(enough so I am quickly converting my 13th Co over to a CSM renegades "counts as" army)

CSM dex overall is a great dex and I think will still allow more flexibility than the new marine dex. D-Princes for the points are a great option and still one of the best HQ choices in all of 5th.

From what I see, Termies do not get drop pods. It is not mentioned in either the Dedicated Transport page or on the Terminator or Assault Terminator entries. And only one squad of each type of Terminator squad in the army can have a dedicated Land Raider (any type though).

Marines are indeed 16 points (all math considered), but the sergeant does get 'Terminator Honors' in there, so that bonus Leadership and Attack cost 10 points.

Speaking of which, there is no longer Terminator Honors, so the only way to get a bonus attack for a IC or such is to buy Terminator armor - but you generally won't be getting any bonus for being armed with 2 CC weapons unless you have lightining claws.

Librarians cannot have Storm Shields (or combat shields, for that matter, which stink now) unless they are in Terminator armor.

Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so Pred Destructors are only 85 points (10 points cheaper than C: DA and C: BA)? And Land Speeders with Assault Cannons are 90 (again 100 for DA)?

And I can take an entirely bike mounted army with a bike mounted captain?

Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Clearly you're not supposed to. Grab a space marine codex and play. They aren't FAQing the previous books because the new one is open enough to create the mini codexes armies by itself.

Having read through it all (the actual book) i'd say the marine codex is pretty balanced

sure they have lots of toys- lots of VERY destructive stuff- but it all comes at a cost- just like the other codecies

I wouldn't say it was overpowered in any one aspect- as the marines are jack of all trades- but will get beaten in a particular aspect of the game by one of the other armies...

they ggot stuff to make em intristing for peaple go have bin playing along time.
I like the tech marine as hq I love tech marines.

Got a glance at the new codex yesterday. The most obvious thing to me is that they got more template options and several things that ignore cover saves. Also got a ton of flexibility with the elite unit that has 4 ammo types and the Thunder Cannon that has 3 ways to fire.

Nice how both the Typhon and Cyclone Missile Launchers are effectively 2 regular Missile Launchers.

One of the psy powers on a Librarian will ruin any Demon player's fun... Any enemy Inv save that is passed within 24" of him must reroll the save.

And Hellfire rounds are just sweet. Poison weapons needing a 2+ to wound anything.

Wildstorm wrote:And Hellfire rounds are just sweet. Poison weapons needing a 2+ to wound anything.

Ayup. Haven't seen as much discussion on those over the AP3 Gets Hot rounds, but wound on 2+ is impressively good. Not only is it better than the AP3 rounds against marines in cover, but those rounds rapid firing are better than a Lascannon against a C'tan. They've got tools to improve shooting against anything.

Question-Is the idiotic rule that if the squad starts off the board, it forgets how to combat squad still in the combat squad rule?

Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

You mean the squad that will cost near 300 points or more when fully tricked out?

porkuslime wrote:Another Landspeeder question.. How much is the Scout Speeder, and Scouts?

I can't remember how much the Scout Speeder is - think it's 50 pts, but Scouts are 12 pts each.

porkuslime wrote:Also, how is the Scout Speeder armed?

It's not. Well, it has the Cerberus Launcher - a three-barreled grenade-launcher that fires smoke, flash-bang, and concussion grenades. These do no damage, mind you, but scares the bejeezus out of the enemy so that when the Scouts assault from it, enemies are -2 Ld.

So... White Scars >> Ravenwing!

JohnHwangDD wrote:So... White Scars >> Ravenwing!

That's the way it should be

And better leadership, a close combat weapon as well as a pistol and a rifle, a second special weapon option, an icon both enhancing our ability to win rather than run away (+1A, +1I, +1T, 5+ Invulnerable, or re-roll Morale) and providing point-perfect deep strikes from which Daemons can run and then launch an assault, as well as the ability to upgrade the Champion to a Greater Daemon.

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

But they could drop pod in next to a unit and give whatever unit that is a really bad day. Then die, but it'll still be cool.

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

they are NOT deathwatch dey ARE tyranit hunters

Seeing that Deathwatch is under the branch of Ordo Xenos the comparison between the two is apt.

G

Alpharius wrote:You mean the squad that will cost near 300 points or more when fully tricked out?

heh. Fully kitted out, you're looking at over twice that much. Not that they are worth it. Neat stuff, but far too pricey to be used in normal games, IMO.

quietus86 wrote:

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

they are NOT deathwatch dey ARE tyranit hunters

And the 'counts as' fluff nazi has come out of the closet and reared its ugly head.
Seriously Quietus, pull the wool over your own eyes. Dictating to someone how they should imagine their army is rather uncouth.

the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

Jayden63 wrote:Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Did I miss the part about them getting a free Rhino/Drop Pod? At 25 (or 50, as in your exaggeration) points each they ARE on foot. If you want a transport you pay even more points. Why would you expect something else?

And I honestly cannot believe you are honestly trying to justify an argument saying that Sternguard should cost more than 50 points each. I know people tend to get irrationally filled with ire and outrage whenever any Space Marine news is released/leaked, but, come on, let's not go overboard.

Hey Thanks Hellfury, I couldn't have said it better myself. I guess someone forgot to read the whole "COUNT AS" part of my post. I guess the fluff Nazi's will be coming out, but if they are going to be TFG, then I wouldn't want to play them anyway.

Plus I think Sternguard would represent the Deathwatch quite well, especially seeing how well armed they are and how the various bolter rounds they can choose from would help in the hunting of the Xenos, The Daemon and the Psycher...

Hopefully someone will be kind enough to answer my previous questions as I won't be able to get to my LGS anytime soon.

Oh does someone have the point cost for Kantor?

Thanks,
Chappy P!

quietus86 wrote:the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

I wish babelfish could help me understand what you just typed. But alas, even bablefish has its limitations.

Hellfury wrote:

quietus86 wrote:the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

I wish babelfish could help me understand what you just typed. But alas, even bablefish has its limitations.

His signature;

"sorry for my spelling but I em deslectic"

Which, considering how badly the very explanation of his dyslexia is structured...that's either good satire or truth .

We got our advance copy here in the store yesterday, I'm sure it will be a very popular item for tonight's Apoc Game and Black Reach Release Party.

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Did I miss the part about them getting a free Rhino/Drop Pod? At 25 (or 50, as in your exaggeration) points each they ARE on foot. If you want a transport you pay even more points. Why would you expect something else?

And I honestly cannot believe you are honestly trying to justify an argument saying that Sternguard should cost more than 50 points each. I know people tend to get irrationally filled with ire and outrage whenever any Space Marine news is released/leaked, but, come on, let's not go overboard.

We must be getting some wires crossed. I'm not actually saying that they should cost 50 points. "A bargain at twice the price" is just a saying that represents that something is too cheep. I personally think that 30 points is about right for something with that much versility and firepower output. Even at 25 point you will see a Sternguard unit in any game over 1000 points. They are just too good to not take, and present no risk at all to the rest of your army composition. Just because they can get a bunch of fancy toys and get stupidly over expensive, doesn't mean people will take all of the upgrades. Their bolter rounds alone are worth the price upgrade, and a unit with no specials will still own whatever part of the battlefield they are protecting.

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

You've got to be kidding!

MARINES, overpowered every single edition?

Er, no.

I can't wait until 6 months or so after this Codex is released.

We won't be hearing a peep about 'overpowered Marines' I'd bet...

All the razorback upgrades are the same except for the t-l heavy flamer: +35. The basic razorback is a steal.

The Mortis pattern dreads (two t-l autocannons or two misslelauchers) are available. Ironclads are sick with additonal attack, a "seismic hammer", AV13, and the option for two heavy flamers.

It looks really good. It just makes no sense to me that a CAPTAIN has an Iron Halo and WS 6?

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

A lot of toys and overpowered is not the same thing. I'm sure that there will be plenty of cost vs benefit analysis of the new codex in the coming days that will allay any fears you have.

Jayden63 wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

We do not know whether or not they DO get the option for taking a pod. That is pure speculation they can take a transport, so why dont we wait for some confirmation.

As for them being "ubserd!", I see where they could have their uses, but they are still just marines with bolters. They have limited range, and have this problem with high strength, ap killing weapons like the regular marines. Treat them like you would a monolith, avoid them and stick to cover and you are golden.

As a BA player Im a bit peeved, not getting combat tactics will be a kick in the junk, and not getting a redeemer will be a tragic loss. But with OCE, and a highly mobile force in an edition that is made or broken by being quick to exploit an opening, I would rather take my furioso DC ven dread in a pod dropping behind your sternguard, flaming their ass and then blowing the hell out of them in CC.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

IIRC, they start out at 5 men and you can get more. They do not get heavy and special weapons for free. As many have mentioned previously, any Sternguard with a bolter can be upgraded to a combi-bolter. Two Sternguard can be given special weapons - plasma, melta, or flamer. I can't remember what the points costs were (I'm thinking it was something along the lines of like 12, 10, 5, but I could be off - I wasn't paying much attention to their points.) And unfortunately, I can't remember what their heavy options were - my bad.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

Sternguard do have a Sgt - he can get pretty much most of the standard Sgt stuff - combi-weapons, power weapons, power fist, meltabombs, typical stuff. Again, can't remember the points costs - sorry.

You also asked about the points cost for Kantor - he was definitely under 200...I'm thinking he was on the range of 125, but I'm not positive about that.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

You also asked about the points cost for Kantor - he was definitely under 200...I'm thinking he was on the range of 125, but I'm not positive about that.

This makes my day.

if kantor is 125 or even as little as 150, for what he is mentioned to have, that is ridiculious.

Thanks DBM, I appreciate your help! (by the way how's your tanith army coming along?)

Lormax wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

derling wrote:a lower Leadership attribute

Loyalists get a Ld9 srg standard.

And CSM are Ld10 standard, are they not?

No, in fact. Ld9. You'd have to pay an additional 15 points to upgrade one of them to a Champion to get Ld10, and you still won't have ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, free weapons for taking 10 men, or the ability to split into two separate squads.

But, as people have stated, at least CSMs still get Bolter + BP + CCW.

Nurglitch wrote:an icon both enhancing our ability to win rather than run away (+1A, +1I, +1T, 5+ Invulnerable, or re-roll Morale)

Which will run you an additional 10 to 50 points, depending on the icon, and can be shot right out of the squad like any other upgrade model, losing you any benefits it gave. Apparently, if they don't keep waving it around, the Chaos Gods forget who they were favouring.

Nurglitch wrote:and providing point-perfect deep strikes from which Daemons can run and then launch an assault

Unless you're unfortunate enough to make your required reserve rolls for those daemons to come in earlier than you want them to, in which case, they're just point-perfect targets for your opponent.

mothman_451 wrote:if kantor is 125 or even as little as 150, for what he is mentioned to have, that is ridiculious.

GW webstore has him up now: Crimson Fists Pedro Kantor

He's got the same statline as a normal Chapter Master. He has some great rules, sure, but I think he's fairly priced at 125-175. I'm a bit biased though.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Because Jervis is a genius and you love the Dark Angels codex with all of your body (including your peepee)?

There wasnt much justification to use it to begin with?

What are the options for the dreads?
They seem to have more stuff to arm them with...

Greets
Schepp himself

Looking at the pic..

One on arm
Twin linked Heavy Flamer
Twin linked Heavy Bolter
Twin linked Autocannon
Twin linked Lascannon
Plasma or Assault Cannon

Replace Dread CC wpn with
Twin-Linked Autocannon or Missle Launcher

Replace Storm Bolter with
Heavy Flamer

Digital Weapons?

Ha!

Yeah, that humongous list of options in the unit entry is so much nicer than an Armory List...

And hopefully seeing the points cost on all this stuff can enable some people to calm the down now.

I wrote it, then looked at the opened tab...my bad, didn't expect to find the codex there.

Looks nice!

Greets
Schepp himself

Whoa, thanks for that.

EDIT: Holy crap, bikes are 25 pts. That is stupid broken. And I say that as a White Scars player.

OMG..

that answers all my up-front questions..

Lormax.. you have either been very bad.. or very good.

-P

Sicarius looks to be the best special...200 pts gets you

Inflitrate/Scout/Tank Hunters for a Tac Squad
Rites of Battle
Reroll sieze the Ini (Not great but hey)
2+ save with feel no pain
Can cause ID if he chooses


The only other one that catches my eye is Chronus in a Crusader or the White Scars special with flanking Crusader/Terminators.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing .

<<<Waits until Yak comes in to put the fear of god in Lormax>>>

With regards to White Scars, won't that mean that you can have basically an entire army of dirt cheap bikes that can all outflank and are all scoring? That seems insanely broken.

Danny Internets wrote:With regards to White Scars, won't that mean that you can have basically an entire army of dirt cheap bikes that can all outflank and are all scoring? That seems insanely broken.

Yeah, so much for the "wait until you see the points costs before you scream broken" crowd.

Good luck fielding (and affording!) and winning all the time with that army!

Still, certainly seems like one for the "OMG!!11!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!111!!!" crowd!

HarveyDent wrote:

porkuslime wrote:If so, did Razorback price drop too?

yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

Thanks for confirming this, I'd not seen the upgrade list anywhere since one of the early Warseer threads. Thank god the rending rules only work on 'to wound' now, or the TL donkey cannon spam would have been horrendous.

The stuff looks fantastic. I really think it will allow a lot of varied Marine builds that will actually play differently.

Very cool stuff.

I was suprised to see there are three distinct Dreadnoughts: Regular, Venerable and Ironclad. A bit bummed I can't upgrade an Ironclad to become Venerable.

All in all, I think many players will be very pleased and excited to either update their armies or start all new ones.

wow, space marines are now officially bad ass. And 25 points for a bike? Big deal, they still aren't that good. I think the points are correct now for what they do.

There are SO many ways to play marines now, this codex in my opinion is a major two thumbs up big time win. There are combos within combos here, that is fantastic.

now, if only they redo CSM and Dark Angels to fall inline with this, 5th will be the best edition of the game yet. Well, it already appears to be so.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Well, it has the Cerberus Launcher - a three-barreled grenade-launcher that fires smoke, flash-bang, and concussion grenades. These do no damage, mind you, but scares the bejeezus out of the enemy so that when the Scouts assault from it, enemies are -2 Ld.

I can already hear the cries of terror from the grizzled renegades and enemies of the Imperium: "Oh noes, boy scouts! Run for the hills!"

Tribune wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Well, it has the Cerberus Launcher - a three-barreled grenade-launcher that fires smoke, flash-bang, and concussion grenades. These do no damage, mind you, but scares the bejeezus out of the enemy so that when the Scouts assault from it, enemies are -2 Ld.

I can already hear the cries of terror from the grizzled renegades and enemies of the Imperium: "Oh noes, boy scouts! Run for the hills!"

That is not the only Land Speeder Storm weaponry, the Storm Speeder has a Heavy Bolter AND the Cerebrus Launcher and a Jamming Beacon and the HB is upgradable.


Plus Deep Strike and Carries 5 Scouts.. yeah.. I want this model..

-Porkuslime

porkuslime wrote:OMG..

that answers all my up-front questions..

Lormax.. you have either been very bad.. or very good.

-P

Hahaha thank you

Lurker wrote:<<<Waits until Yak comes in to put the fear of god in Lormax>>>

Considering they're already doing the same thing over on another site named after a weapon combo that SM Sergeants come with, and that I was given the go-ahead to take the pics by employees in the store, I don't see an issue personally.

And you can upgrade it to carry an assault cannon for less than a 'regular' Land Speeder, I think.

I agree with Reecius - this Codex is going to be a lot of fun to play with and against.

We should see a lot of different lists coming out of it too, though with lots of 'counts as' special characters, I'd imagine.

*Quickly saves everything*

Lormax, you are freaking awesome. Why, if you weren't a man I'd kiss you...

Ah, what the hell...

*Kisses Lormax on the mouth*

So what exactly are the digital weapons? The same as tycho's old extra str4 hit in cc wargear?

It is pretty much official, by not streamlining wargear, C:SM blows BA/DA Dex's out of the water

One thing to note: Scouts receive the sniper rifle upgrade for free.

Tribune wrote:One thing to note: Scouts receive the sniper rifle upgrade for free.

Also they recieve the scouts USR

Hmmmmmmm....looks like the option for a terminator armored command squad is gone the way of the dodo...can you attach a Chapter master to a termy squad like you could in the old days. do termy's still get deep strike like they used to?

Quickly perusing.. I don't see an entry for Assault Squads..

Lormax.. was it there.. or were there just the Vanguard Vet with optional Jump Packs?

I also forsee a future for lots of extra Dread arms.. hoping they put out some plastics to cover all these options.

-Porkuslime

CapNCaveman! wrote:Hmmmmmmm....looks like the option for a terminator armored command squad is gone the way of the dodo...can you attach a Chapter master to a termy squad like you could in the old days. do termy's still get deep strike like they used to?

The master can still take termy armor and take the honorguard. They all have the same regular save (2+) it is just the invuln that they dont have. They get option to take relic blades (str6) and auxiliary grenade launchers. The launchers have a 12 inch range, but are assault 1 and function just like a grenade launcher (str6 ap4).

porkuslime wrote:Quickly perusing.. I don't see an entry for Assault Squads..

Lormax.. was it there.. or were there just the Vanguard Vet with optional Jump Packs?

I also forsee a future for lots of extra Dread arms.. hoping they put out some plastics to cover all these options.

-Porkuslime

No assault squads in fast attack, only in elites. To top that off marine bike squads (not scout bike, but marine bikes) are elite choices

moosifer wrote:

Tribune wrote:One thing to note: Scouts receive the sniper rifle upgrade for free.

Also they recieve the scouts USR

And I don't remember them having Move Through Cover before, either.

did they take deep strike away from terminator squads?!?!

I'll ask again...Do squads that start off the board still some how forget how to use the combat squad rule?

moosifer wrote:

porkuslime wrote:Quickly perusing.. I don't see an entry for Assault Squads..

Lormax.. was it there.. or were there just the Vanguard Vet with optional Jump Packs?

I also forsee a future for lots of extra Dread arms.. hoping they put out some plastics to cover all these options.

-Porkuslime

No assault squads in fast attack, only in elites. To top that off marine bike squads (not scout bike, but marine bikes) are elite choices

Both SM Bikers and Assault Squads (not veterans) are Fast Attack.

skyth wrote:I'll ask again...Do squads that start off the board still some how forget how to use the combat squad rule?

If they deploy form a Pod, they can split. Dunno if a 10 man Termie squad can do it when the arrive or prior to that.

Awesome stuff...

moosifer wrote:

Tribune wrote:One thing to note: Scouts receive the sniper rifle upgrade for free.

Also they recieve the scouts USR

And Scout Bikes get Infiltrate.

another thing of note is that speeders can now take 2 heavy flamers or multi-melta's. Sallies speeders with 2 twin linked melta's sounds fun

I'm not in the knee jerk camp wrt this codex, there are things about it I don't like, but I also see something of a similar approach to when the new Eldar dex came out. They took a list where the de facto tank busting type firepower was to be found largely in the number of bright lances fielded, and made those more expensive and less available. At the same time, they offered up some new close ranged anti-tank options like shining spears and haywire-armed Hawks.

With C:SM, the lasplas obsessives now have other options to deliver their tankbusting needs (multi meltas everywhere, for one thing) and still plenty of ways to gain ROF on something other than just a tactical marine with heavy weapon. And on that last point, it's clear the designers want us using ROF rather than relying on low AP to beat infantry armour.

oh wow, i didnt realize scout bikers got scouts and infiltrate, holy crap, that makes them so sick with a deepstriking army.

Take a scout bike squad, deepstrike half your pods onto them first turn pretty much anywhere on the board you want with no deviation (doubly awesome if you know you are going first), then with locators on the pods and Tigerius as your HQ, 75% of everything else you has comes on turn 2 with no deviation, including termies and assault squads or land speeders? Good god.

That is rediculous. My pod army is gong to be waylaying some people. it was good before but now with all of these other gizmos you can knock peoples lights out with a pod army.

My mind is going in loops looking at all of the rediculous combos in here.

With shrike, you can give assault terminators fleet of foot making them worth while now, combined with a 3 up invul with storm shields and you have a bad ass assault unit. I didnt see any restirctions in the termie entry that would stop you from doing that unless i missed something. Three landraider crusaders with full loads of assault squads, termie or otherwise, with shrike as the HQ, everyone goes 12 inches forward in a seriously tough tank, disembarks 2 inches, fleets D6, charges 6? Damn, that could be some serious hurting. Plus marines and termies are tough enough to survive a turn of shotting to charge again, unlike Harlies with super falcons.

since Shrikes entry says all units get fleet, could you give it to Dreads as well? That makes them look really nasty, espcially the ironclads with two close combat weapons and a heavy flamer and melta gun. wow.

This codex is going to make marines an army to be recokoned with, which they should be. People will still come up with ways to beat them as they are suh a popular army, but i think this is a really good step.

hopefull every codex from here forward has as much flexibility and depth.

Why would you use a normal chaplain over cassius?
25 Points for feel no pan combined with T6 and his flaming bolter thrown in for good measure... I hate when they do that.

Greets
Schepp himself

Reecius wrote:oh wow, i didnt realize scout bikers got scouts and infiltrate, holy crap, that makes them so sick with a deepstriking army.

Take a scout bike squad, deepstrike half your pods onto them first turn pretty much anywhere on the board you want with no deviation (doubly awesome if you know you are going first), then with locators on the pods and Tigerius as your HQ, 75% of everything else you has comes on turn 2 with no deviation, including termies and assault squads or land speeders? Good god.

That is rediculous. My pod army is gong to be waylaying some people. it was good before but now with all of these other gizmos you can knock peoples lights out with a pod army.

My mind is going in loops looking at all of the rediculous combos in here.

With shrike, you can give assault terminators fleet of foot making them worth while now, combined with a 3 up invul with storm shields and you have a bad ass assault unit. I didnt see any restirctions in the termie entry that would stop you from doing that unless i missed something. Three landraider crusaders with full loads of assault squads, termie or otherwise, with shrike as the HQ, everyone goes 12 inches forward in a seriously tough tank, disembarks 2 inches, fleets D6, charges 6? Damn, that could be some serious hurting. Plus marines and termies are tough enough to survive a turn of shotting to charge again, unlike Harlies with super falcons.

since Shrikes entry says all units get fleet, could you give it to Dreads as well? That makes them look really nasty, espcially the ironclads with two close combat weapons and a heavy flamer and melta gun. wow.

This codex is going to make marines an army to be recokoned with, which they should be. People will still come up with ways to beat them as they are suh a popular army, but i think this is a really good step.

hopefull every codex from here forward has as much flexibility and depth.

Shrike only give fleet to the units that have Combat tatics... So dreads do not have Combat Tatics, therefore no fleet. Thank God....

This codex does give the Marines the ability to fight Chaos and Eldar and Demeons.. but to the army I play tau empire, this codex makes Tau not able to be taken to tournments

Asta, you keep popping in with these portents of doom about your Tau, it's not very objective to be honest. Get on the table against the new list and I'm sure you'll soon find some solid tactics to employ against it.

Here's a fact about the new Marine codex....

After looking at it and then going home and seeing my Dark Angel codex....it angers me.

Tribune wrote:Asta, you keep popping in with these portents of doom about your Tau, it's not very objective to be honest. Get on the table against the new list and I'm sure you'll soon find some solid tactics to employ against it.

Care to name a couple? Read some battle reports, 5th seems to have done a number on the Tau (nerfed skimmer firepower, very hard to hide suits from LOS, running to allow closing on our gunlines faster, much closer starting postitions) taking away a lot that they relied on and boosting other armies as well. Add in new and improved marines and I think it might just mean the death of the Tau in a super competitive environment.

Lormax wrote:This fell into my lap

http://themacabre.dkpsystem.com/gallery.php?id=3

I have to say the formating on that site is terrible and printing the pages a true hassle. I really expect better service from my pirate sites.

Tribune... Just so you know.. I have played 9 games so far in 5th addition... I have lost all of them except for 1

Lost to:

Space Marines Assault Army x4
Space Marine Drop Pod Assault x1
Imperial Guard Tank Rush x1 (Got to love Flame tanks and Fifth Addition Flame Rules)
Necrons x1
Chaos Space Marine x1

Won:
Space Marine Assault x1


Thank you Jayden for your support. I am not truly angry about this. I am just bieng honest. The new marine codex is wonderfull if you play vanilla marines or one of the special character chapters.

Explain to any tau player that a 12-18 inch assaulting Terminator with 2+, 3+ save, fleet. and also 18-24 inch assault marines with fleet playing in a mission game where one sets up the other gets to set up 24 inches away and then also gets drop pod assault so you get atleast one squad of marines droping in on the fire line and assault on turn one. (Vanguard) How can tau survive.. ? Even our beloved Suits don't get power weapons?


Please, if anyone can tell us tau players how to even get a fighting chance against this.. I would love to know.. !

Astalado

Well I'll be honest and say that I have seen you post much the same several times - it's more appropriate to take your question to the tactics section than sideline Marine codex discussions with declarations of the end of the Tau etc., that's all.

Your last post suggests it's not so much to do with the marine dex, so much as how you are getting on with 5e in general..

Armour of Antilochus? Where have I heard the name Antilochus before...

Does Rites of Battle act like it did in the last Codex?

No Lightning Claw Chaplains.

No Thunder Hammer Chaplains.

Love to know what planet the designers were from thinking that a TL-Heavy Flamer is worth 25 points more than a TL-Heavy Bolter, or that a TL-Assault Cannon is somehow worth as much as a TL-Lascannon in the current rules.

Heh. Locator Beacons on Drop Pods. That's just mean.

Terminators are still 10 points too expensive. If they're going to be worth over twice a Marine they need to be W2 at the very least.

Terminator Sergeant still has the 'Removed me as a casualty first' sign hung around his neck. 'Spose he can take a cheapest Chainfist in the squad (ie. swapping a power weapon rather than a power fist for one).

Heavy Flamer for Sternguard? Hmm...

Heh. You can have a BS5 Venerable Dread with two Twin-Linked Autocannons.

Chainfist on the Ironclad Dread? Why? It's already rolling 2D6+10 and that's already redundant in 5th Ed because you can't roll less than a 10 and you always attack the AV10 rears of vehicles in HTH combat (and there are only 3 vehicles with a rear AV higher than that).

Gift of Presience on Tiggy? I can feel the Eldar player nerd rage rising.

Nearly 400-year-old Chaplain with loads of Bionics > 10,000 year old Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour who has been dedicated to Nurgle for all that time.

Can a Techmarine with a Servo-Harness ride a bike?

Why is the first Servitor worth 10 points, but each one after that worth 15? Why, at WS3 BS3 S3 I3 T3 Sv4+ are they worth 1 point less than a Marine? Wait, I know - They're not getting a new model kit!. Of course...

Part of me wishes they'd made a formatting error and not capatalised the 'D' on the LotD squad. Then it would have been "The damned Sergeant can take this..." or "One damed Legionnaire can upgrade his bolter to this...".

And how come the damned Legionnaires don't get free special/heavy weapons?

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

I've brought this up before, but 40 Point Assault cannons on speeders! LOL! It's almost like GW willfully tries to write bad rules...

Bikes are still overpriced, but than again bikes always have been and they're not getting a new model in this cycle, so GW doesn't really care what rules they have. Interestingly though, when fully upgraded the squad does number 10 Marines (9 models/10 wounds) - and they can use Combat Squads!!!

240 points for the Redeemer? F*#k me dead that's expensive. Until Land Raiders can move full distance, fire everything, and ignore Shaken/Stunned they will never be worth more than 180 points. Never.

The Predator. Get a sneaking suspicion it's not getting a new kit either? 60 point Sponson Lascannons! WOW!! GW really must hate people who've already bought the models and don't want to get new ones. Yes I know the dorky Dark Angles and bland Blood Angels already have the 60 point sponsons, but it doesn't change the fact that that's a 20 point overpriced upgrade.

Love to know what a Siege Shield is. Also love to know why they haven't made the Vindicator AV12 on the sides.

"I am Lysander! Fear the mythical might of my monstrous Bolter Drill, as I smite down my foes with me... oh wait I have a Thunder Hammer..." Seriously, why would you join this guy to anything other than an Assault Terminator Squad?

Shadow Captain Shrike? What's worse. Shadow Captain or the Redeemer's 'Flamestorm' cannon?

Thunderfire Cannon is still a bit of a waste. S5 AP6 or S6 AP5. Wow. So impressive.

Appears Rites of Battle does act the same. Christ I hate that rule...

Oh yeah. Tiggy's gonna make Eldar players really angry...

'Spose that explains why Cassius is on pre-order - they're bringing back the model with the Combi-Flamer. So even old models are new again - and he has better rules. Seeing a pattern yet?

One wonders if killing Chronus inside his tank yeilds two Kill Points? If it does not, then wouldn't you want him to die, rather than bailing out, so that he can't be worth a KP if killed later?

Vulkan He'stan? By the power Grey Skull, this guy is amazing! There's going to be a lot of Ultramander armies out there soon. And he's only 190! Wow.

How come the White Scar guy doesn't automatically come with a Bike? I see he makes Bikes Troops.

Sweet! Daemonhunters can cut Legion of the Damned to ribbons!!!

Chapter Masters can have Terminator Armour and two Thunder Hammers! OMG!!!! Totally wasteful, but how cool would that look!!!

You may include one Honour Guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army. Wait... what? You can have more than one Chapter Master? *checks* Oh WTF...

They ain't cheap either. 35 points? Ouch...

Oh look! Marines can do Ravenwing without the need to bring a special character to every battle. I weep for you Dark Angel players. I really do.

Hmm... it appears that a Chapter Master and a Captain can carry odd weapon combos, such as:

Two Boltguns.

Two Storm Bolters.

Two Combi-Weapons.

Two Storm Shields.

Two Relic Blades.

If the above aren't possible, than a Captain/Chapter Master cannot have 2 Lightning Claws except in Terminator Armour.

Ooof! 40 point Storm Shield. I guess Librarians will need it though, with only 2 wounds and no Invul save option other than the Storm Shield.

Space Marine Librarian w/2 Powers - 100 Points.
Chaos Sorcerer w/2 Powers - 165 (minimum).

Even with the Epistolary upgrade the Marine Librarian is 15 points cheaper than the cheapest possible Chaos Sorcerer, and the Epistolary comes with a Psychic Hood (not to be confused with a Psychic Hood from the Dark Angel Codex or a Psychic Hood from the Blood Angel Codex, which are completely different yet have the same names, because that's less confusing than an update FAQ).

Seriously, 10,000 year old Sorcerer dedicated to the God of Magic is less powerful than a Librarian, costs more points, and can't cast two powers a turn. Great work there GW. Tzeentch gets Tzcrewed again!!



This Codex looks like a lot of fun, but boy did DA's, BA's and Chaos get left in the cold with this one.

BYE

Schepp himself wrote:Why would you use a normal chaplain over cassius?

Cassius - About to have a re-released model w/Combi-Flamer.
Chaplain - No new model kit.

Does that answer your question?

BYE

Actually Assault Termies now have a 21"-26" assault range coming out of a Landraider. Thats right, on the first turn you are seriously and utterly fisked. (Damn thats better than what the deathwing get.

Anyways when I read that codex, I laughed histarily, then I cried for my poor boys in green...

HBMC

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

He already paid for a power weapon...........

You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

DA have more to gripe about than BA.

BA might pay a little bit more for somethings, but other units are cheaper (VAS vs Vanguard).

The sad thing is that marines, other than a full jumpack army, are essentially much cheaper..... and thus 'better'.

Nice, you can get 5 Land raiders in a single FOC. Of course you have to have at least 2 terminator squads. Excessive, but fun.

Lurker wrote:He already paid for a power weapon...........

Ah yes... Forgot about that.

Lurker wrote:You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

Lascannons are pathetic in 5th. An AV14 vehicle sitting in 4+ cover is so diffuclt to destroy with a Lascannon it's basically not worth the effort. Meltaguns are the new way forward. This guy helps Meltaguns. By the same token, Flamers come into their own in 5th, with all the cover saves floating about, and this guy makes flamers better.

The Thunderhammer thing is a bonus.

Lurker wrote:I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

Something nice for all the Crimson Fist players who've been stuck with 2 FA, 2 Elite and 2 HS slots for the past 5-6 years. Not mandatory, but certainly nice.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Armour of Antilochus? Where have I heard the name Antilochus before...

Could be Autolochus who was the dreadnought in "Brothers of the Snake" that you're thinking of?

Lormax, thank you so much for putting this up here. You are the greatest. Now I can throw away my fears of starting up my space marine army only to have to make significant changes once the new codex comes out. I've had to postpone for about a week and was afraid I'd have to wait until october, but now progress can continue.

Thank you!

Lucas

Yeah, the formatting sux. I'll rename the files to get the order a bit better.

There's an assault squad entry in Fast Attack. Oopsie on leaving it out, I'll fix that (not somewhere that I can fix it at the moment)

I heard the link made it to 4chan before noon. Yay for my 15 minutes of internet fame?

Just checking some stuff out, can a space marine captain take a relic blade and a storm shield to use at the same time even though I believe relic blades are 2-handed weapons. Also, do storm shields still negate the extra attack bonus for CC weapons. If so, then aren't single lightning claws always a better option over the power sword for the same price if taking a storm shield?

Lurker wrote:HBMC

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

He already paid for a power weapon...........

You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

Th/ss termies are great now right. He makes em a little better. Thats good. Land speeders can get 2 multi-melta's on a signle speeder. He makes em better.

Also take into account he has a 2+/3+, master crafted s6 power wep, and a twin linked heavy flamer. Throw him in a LR with a termie or vanguard squad. Stick him in a rhino with some a tac squad with a flamer and a sarge with a combi flamer. he has many uses. How many of those characters with the exception of shrike and khan have mobility?

I personally think sternguard are nuts. With the right combi weps taken they can pretty much take on just about anything. I'm looking at 4 combi-meltas for my sallies. So we have 4 meltas for tanks/MC's, always wound on 2+ or ignore cover bolters for everything else. Was that a C'tan? Avatar? Hellfire rounds are nuts.

you may replace bp and/ or ccw with:
-boltgun
-storm bolter
-combi weapon
-storm shield
-power sword
-lightning claw
-plasma pistol
-power fist
-relic blade
-thunder hammer

so you can take any combination of the two regardless of weapon type(1 vs. 2 handed)

if you are taking a storm shield yes there is no point in a regular power weapon, because for the same points you can reroll with the claw

Lormax wrote:Yeah, the formatting sux. I'll rename the files to get the order a bit better.

There's an assault squad entry in Fast Attack. Oopsie on leaving it out, I'll fix that (not somewhere that I can fix it at the moment)

I heard the link made it to forchan before noon. Yay for my 15 minutes of internet fame?

We really need the pages in order and a way to scroll from page to page.

Snap to it!

Scrolling from page to page won't happen. I unfortunately don't control the features that the site provides :(

I can get the pages in order and already know how I'll rename them to do it.

OR

I can just put up the URL links to em. Clicking on them would bring up only that pic. I didn't do this at first since I thought the gallery style would make it more convenient for people to view.

Save em, re name em and put em in a slideshow. Easy peasy. Thanks again for the link Lormax. Got the gears whirling on how to retool my Salamanders.

Was someone saying locator beacons IN a squad that gets out of a drop pod? Not possible, from what I read. only scout biker sergeants have the locator beacon. Marine and scout sergeants can have Teleport homers again tho, so that's good.

GrimTeef wrote:Was someone saying locator beacons IN a squad that gets out of a drop pod? Not possible, from what I read. only scout biker sergeants have the locator beacon. Marine and scout sergeants can have Teleport homers again tho, so that's good.

No, someone was saying locator beacons bolted onto the drop pod itself.

With the need for meltaguns for tank hunting, are small squads of attack bikes now the way to go?

Also, we need the rules pages scanned!

Right now, the codex seems rather nice, you can make a lot of different armies with it without one being terribly underpowered (Eldar codex style) which is good!

Sad thing is that they brought the "special" characters back into the game but not as specials, as mandatory. Oh, and on top of that they change your army composition which I don't like at all. My quasi-Salamander chapter doesn't want to be lead by this vulkan guy in every battle...

Greets
Schepp himself

EDIT: Oh, and imo, the "new model = awesome rules" is becoming too much with this codex (Sternguard, Scout Land speeder, special characters...)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why is the first Servitor worth 10 points, but each one after that worth 15? Why, at WS3 BS3 S3 I3 T3 Sv4+ are they worth 1 point less than a Marine? Wait, I know - They're not getting a new model kit!. Of course...

They have servo harnesses. Essentially walking, 15 point power fists.

Deadshane1 wrote:Here's a fact about the new Marine codex....

After looking at it and then going home and seeing my Dark Angel codex....it angers me.

I for one agree with you. Looking at my BA codex really makes me wonder how (if) they are thinking. BAs don't even have a history and fluff section... If you don't count the first two pages.
Seriously disappointed...


//Edge

Jayden63 wrote:Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS.

I think it would be even more fun if they randomly roll for their ammo type at the beginning of the game (after deployment).

AdeptSister wrote:It just makes no sense to me that a CAPTAIN has an Iron Halo and WS 6?

It's just not fluffy for a space marine captain to have a worse statline than a Chaos lord.

The Mortis pattern dreads (two t-l autocannons or two misslelauchers) are available.

Suck it DA!

H.B.M.C. wrote: or that a TL-Assault Cannon is somehow worth as much as a TL-Lascannon in the current rules.

Most of what you said is right on the money, but an assault cannon is still better at popping AV 14 than a lascannon is, plus it's better against infantry.

I hear many people complain about the cost of a thing, in all walks of life. Then they eventually decide to buy it anyway, because they decide they 'need' it.

Cigarettes, alcohol, car tax, subscription TV, assault cannons, powerfists - it's all much the same.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS.

I think it would be even more fun if they randomly roll for their 6?

You've got to be kidding. Do you know how much everyone hates the random skill for Possessed? Stop crying like a little baby and suck it up.

G

GBF's sarcasm detector has obviously failed

i like the ammo change, why would you shoot a frag missile at a fex?
you wouldnt, you would fire a krak.
that gets to change ammo to suit its desired target.
i think its a good idea.

Modern artillery has different kinds of ammo, so does grenade launchers and even shotguns.

Of course there's a limit on the amount of ammo variety a unit can carry, and the speed it can change from one type to another.

LD test to change ammo types?

I used to like the 1e rule that troops had communicators, but they only worked on a 5-6 on D6. There's some fun to be had enforcing 'standing orders' into a game of 40k, and not simply allowing them to react to situations as if some towering giant was stood over the battlefield with a birds eye view...

Standing orders requires some form of record keeping, such as written orders or order chits.

Which is HERESY!

heresy rules!

heresy rules!

ooomies kan keep der heresey
Mes wiv ghazghkull n he will stomp ya!

Holy Hero Hammer Batman!

POW! WHACK! WAAAAAAM!

yamato wrote:Holy Hero Hammer Batman!

POW! WHACK! WAAAAAAM!

If you think the current round of SM characters constitute Herohammer, you've never played the old Chaos codex.

Sure they're good and resilient, but they almost all walk and have good but not ungodly assault output. Calgar is the only one with ranged that really approaches a single plasma gun.

I mean, they're mostly A3 and can't get a bonus attack from two weapons. Calgar is the strongest of them, and an old school Glaive or Siren prince would clean his clock without breaking a sweat.

Schepp himself wrote:EDIT: Oh, and imo, the "new model = awesome rules" is becoming too much with this codex (Sternguard, Scout Land speeder, special characters...)

Eh, dunno about that. Pods get a nice boost with the introduction of the model, and Redeemers are seriously good, but otherwise, the new stuff is mostly overpriced toys. Assault squads got one of the nicest buffs and don't get any new kits. Vulkan and Ironclads don't have models yet, and I'm probably going to be fielding both.

Not that Sternguard are bad, but hell, I'm going to be converting mine and I'd expect a lot of folks to do that anyway.

Can the Sternguard special ammo be used with a combi-bolter?

Maybe I'm missing something but when I looked at the terminator entry and the transport entries:

1. Terminators don't deep strike anymore and can't buy drop pods.

2. Landraiders no longer state (and the terminator entry no longer states) that terminators count as two models.

3. The Rhino and Razorback entry no longer state that they can't transport terminators. Sooooo... I buy a rhino for my Tac. squad and then jump my squad of ten terminators into it that don't deep strike anymore?

Am I missing something?

Lowinor wrote: Assault squads got one of the nicest buffs and don't get any new kits.

What buff did assault squads get? That page seems to be missing.

I think they went down in price.

A buff of sorts, yes?

tomguycot wrote:Maybe I'm missing something but when I looked at the terminator entry and the transport entries:

1. Terminators don't deep strike anymore and can't buy drop pods.

2. Landraiders no longer state (and the terminator entry no longer states) that terminators count as two models.

3. The Rhino and Razorback entry no longer state that they can't transport terminators. Sooooo... I buy a rhino for my Tac. squad and then jump my squad of ten terminators into it that don't deep strike anymore?

Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing all of the information from the Terminator section in the codex. This is just the summary section with points values and options. I'd bet that the detail section will include all the answers to your questions (same with the details for the transports, teleport assault, etc.)

Yeah, the new units are cool, but i doubt you will see an army with more than one or two of them at a time, marine armies will still look similar to how they did before. The new units are too expensive to field tons of them, they are cool to change things up a bit though.

shirou wrote:

Lowinor wrote: Assault squads got one of the nicest buffs and don't get any new kits.

What buff did assault squads get? That page seems to be missing.

A squad of ten including sergeant (again, all sergeants now are "veteran sergeants" from the old 'dex) is 190 points. Assault squads are now cheaper than Tac squads in Rhinos.

This is kinda to be expected (and I'm sure future codices will have very similar point drops on FA choices) due to them no longer scoring and requiring more effort to be killy than HS choices.

I think power armor will be around 70% of the tournament scene. Oh and Jervis is writing some really cool rules for Apoc.

G

agreed GBF, and with all luck ill have my wave of green by that time
given up on the nids and need something new.

Damn, White Scars are really tempting. They even have a yellow successor chapter. Scout bikes seem like a lot of fun.

Assault Squad pic is up now, sorry about that. I mistakenly uploaded the same pic twice.

I also changed the formatting of them so that they are in order now, hope the changes are for the better.

Anyone notice the Demolisher Cannon is now a Barrage weapon? As in, I don't have to see you to hit you. As in, I determine cover from the center of the Blast marker.

kadun wrote:Anyone notice the Demolisher Cannon is now a Barrage weapon? As in, I don't have to see you to hit you. As in, I determine cover from the center of the Blast marker.

Only if you want to have a full 2D6 scatter as well. But yeah, handy option.

Neat, the Assault Sergeant can keep his bolt pistol when he buys a pair of lightning claws.

Lormax wrote:Assault Squad pic is up now

Much appreciated. Now I can finalize my initial list and get it packed for paint.

Is it just me or did the price of the Space Marine codex on the U.S. advanced orders page go up $5 from $25.00 to $30.00?

Lowinor wrote:

shirou wrote:

Lowinor wrote: Assault squads got one of the nicest buffs and don't get any new kits.

What buff did assault squads get? That page seems to be missing.

A squad of ten including sergeant (again, all sergeants now are "veteran sergeants" from the old 'dex) is 190 points. Assault squads are now cheaper than Tac squads in Rhinos.

This is kinda to be expected (and I'm sure future codices will have very similar point drops on FA choices) due to them no longer scoring and requiring more effort to be killy than HS choices.

My 22pt Seraphim are crying...

derek wrote:Is it just me or did the price of the Space Marine codex on the U.S. advanced orders page go up $5 from $25.00 to $30.00?

nope not just you, I noticed the same thing...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

not a huge deal, but... yeah.

[Insert conspiracy theory here]

[Insert Generic Insult agianst GW here]

[Insert pithy comment]

[Insert standard ending note]

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Is it just me or did the price of the Space Marine codex on the U.S. advanced orders page go up $5 from $25.00 to $30.00?

nope not just you, I noticed the same thing...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

not a huge deal, but... yeah.

having just looked at it I will say it is huge in comparison to a standard codex

H.B.M.C. wrote:[Insert conspiracy theory here]

[Insert Generic Insult agianst GW here]

[Insert pithy comment]

[Insert standard ending note]

[Insert Ping Pong Joke] The price has ping ponged from $25 to $30 and back in a very random fashion since last weekend. All of the other prices raises for the new SM stuff has been stable since then.

fullheadofhair wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Is it just me or did the price of the Space Marine codex on the U.S. advanced orders page go up $5 from $25.00 to $30.00?

nope not just you, I noticed the same thing...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

not a huge deal, but... yeah.

having just looked at it I will say it is huge in comparison to a standard codex

True. I am not complaining, perse, but it is jumping back and forth a lot. Just pointing that out.

Man, this may just put me in the hate Jervis Camp... Give other chapters our Dread pattern will you?! WILL YOU?!?!

WAAAGH!!!!!!



(Oh crap... wrong boys in green)

Hellfury wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

derek wrote:Is it just me or did the price of the Space Marine codex on the U.S. advanced orders page go up $5 from $25.00 to $30.00?

nope not just you, I noticed the same thing...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020048&prodId=prod1550002&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

not a huge deal, but... yeah.

having just looked at it I will say it is huge in comparison to a standard codex

True. I am not complaining, perse, but it is jumping back and forth a lot. Just pointing that out.

Agreed, wondering if it is just the US price, or if the UK one is jumping around too.

Lormax wrote:
I heard the link made it to 4chan before noon. Yay for my 15 minutes of internet fame?

It's official: Lormax has joined the minions of the Warp.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Love to know what planet the designers were from thinking that a TL-Heavy Flamer is worth 25 points more than a TL-Heavy Bolter

The high point cost obviously represents the effort the Space Marines had to exert beating up a squad of Sisters of Battle to steal their Immolator. However, since Space Marines have never had one before, they have no idea how to work it properly, which is why even though Sisters pay the same 65 points for it, their training and experience allows them to move 12" and still fire the twin-linked Heavy Flamer.

At least Space Marines are worse at something.

Lormax - Can I make a request for the dreadnought rules page? I'd like to know what the upgrades do for the ironclad.

Sure thing. Someone else asked for some of the special rules pages as well

Unlike other character's Chapter Tactics, Vulcan He'stan's does not "exchange" Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics. Units with Combat Tactics simply lose that ability and all Flamers, Heavy Flamers, Meltaguns, and Multi-meltas in the army are twin-linked. That means allied Divine Guided Battle Sister squads with Heavy Flamer, Flamer loadout are going to be awesome. I don't play Space Marines, but I do play Sisters, I might just have to start a minimal Space Marine army just to field this combination.

AND possessed marines that are overpriced and undependable.

AND chaos spawn that don't take up fast attack slots (but who asked for them)

AND blastmasters that used to cost like an autocannon but now are pricier than a lascannon in a havoc squad or a rhino.

Who ever in their right mind would want chaos demons in their chaos marine army anyways.

Oh that's right you can play chaos daemon armies that can teleport next to a marine squad look nasty and get shot up before they can charge in or play tzeench demons and fall over dead if guardsmen get you into hand to hand.

Hey, why did I start a chaos army ever? Can someone please tell me?

DAaddict wrote:
Hey, why did I start a chaos army ever? Can someone please tell me?

Because if your like me you started your chaos army in the previous codex. You know, the one that doesn't seem so overly strong now does it?

DAaddict wrote:AND possessed marines that are overpriced and undependable.

AND chaos spawn that don't take up fast attack slots (but who asked for them)

AND blastmasters that used to cost like an autocannon but now are pricier than a lascannon in a havoc squad or a rhino.

Who ever in their right mind would want chaos demons in their chaos marine army anyways.

Oh that's right you can play chaos daemon armies that can teleport next to a marine squad look nasty and get shot up before they can charge in or play tzeench demons and fall over dead if guardsmen get you into hand to hand.

Hey, why did I start a chaos army ever? Can someone please tell me?

Because you want to run 9 oblits and 2 lash princes. Because that is the only viable build. Ever. x1000.

Lormax wrote:This fell into my lap

http://themacabre.dkpsystem.com/gallery.php?id=3

all of that info just fell onto my harddrive....

Added some of the missing info. I'll go through the older pics and brighten them up and crop them as well

Edit: Updated all the older ones. For anyone checking out the updated pics, do you prefer the cropped/brightened versions, or the old versions?

Lormax, get to work faster, and I want full rights to the pics due to my fingers showing in one.

DAaddict wrote:AND blastmasters that used to cost like an autocannon but now are pricier than a lascannon in a havoc squad or a rhino.

Who ever in their right mind would want chaos demons in their chaos marine army anyways.

Blastmasters can be taken by Troops units as small as 5 models. No other 5th Edition Troop choice will have Heavy Weapons of that power level at such a low total points cost.

Chaos Daemons are fine for what they are - inexpensive Scoring Troops that can fight and don't get shot up on the way in.

Why is everyone praising this Lormax clown? I wasn't aware that Dakka had become a pirate site.

I had already seen pics posted on B&C before popping mine up.

Though really, the difference between this and me typing out everything I saw while I was at the store?

Not promoting piracy, more about squashing rumors and making questions easier to answer. I've also pre-ordered the codex as well. Can't go to the tourney without a codex, and a book of printed out pages isn't a codex.

I really doubt anyone will print these out just so he doesn't have to buy the Codex.

Agreed. They are all pretty much awful pics with a camera held by hand. No fluff, no pics and there's still missing info.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Blastmasters can be taken by Troops units as small as 5 models. No other 5th Edition Troop choice will have Heavy Weapons of that power level at such a low total points cost.

Chaos Daemons are fine for what they are - inexpensive Scoring Troops that can fight and don't get shot up on the way in.

Always the apologist, hey Jonny?

BYE

the previous CSM codex was all sorts of broken, but thats not the issue.

all in all the new SM dex looks pretty balanced. it is definately a power increase on the previous one, but i think it needed it. (most of) the units and upgrades seem to be fairly costed. there is a lot of cool stuff in there, but like all new codex releases, it will only take a couple of weeks for people to figure out a counter to it.

the extra stuff above and beyond the BA, DA and CSM codecies is a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially considering that GW will not be releasing any FAQs on them. some one at GW needs to be given a servere talking to on the issues of game balance.

Oh sure, it looks balanced on the surface but then you notice stuff like 1st turn charges with infiltrating scouting scout bikes.

Everybody fears the WS3, Str4 charge

Who needs a Necron Lord with Veil of Darkness when you've got The Gate of Infinity. Sure it's only 24 inches, but damn!

The funniest thing is this line though:

"You may include one Honour Guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army."

Lormax wrote:Everybody fears the WS3, Str4 charge

Anybody sitting in a stationary vehicle does

I am really not happy about the razorbacks getting twin linked assault cannons.

Looks like i need to wait for 6th ed to play blood angels again.

(yes, i understand that is overly dramatic)

Whats wrong with it? They aren't fast vehicles, something that the Baal has over a LOT of tanks out there.

Ultimately a Predator with 2 assault cannons each has got plenty going for it.

The baal does get OCE and AR 13 for 25 pnts.. That isn't too bad but the RB gets to carry troops.

blood angel wrote:I am really not happy about the razorbacks getting twin linked assault cannons.

Looks like i need to wait for 6th ed to play blood angels again.

(yes, i understand that is overly dramatic)

As an IG and Eldar player, I'm not really happy about how cheap the Rhinos, Razorbacks, & Drop Pods have gotten. OTOH, when Chimeras get down to 45 pts (including weapons), and Wave Serpents are 75 pts, I guess I'll be OK with it.

Actually, I'm not sure that I prefer C: SM over C: BA. BA has Scoring 5-man Assault Marines with 2 Plasma; SM has non-Scoring 10-man Assault Marines for 2 Plasma (or Flamers). And compare Tactical Squads w/ Las & Plas:

10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

where did the link go?
was it taken down?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

any information about the link(of the website where the codex is), i cant seem to find it anymore in this thread. if anyone still has it can they repost it
or is it not suppose to be up
any answers regarding this would be much appreciated(i would really like to know the specifics of the librarians powers)

Lemartes wrote:CSM dex overall is a great dex and I think will still allow more flexibility than the new marine dex. D-Princes for the points are a great option and still one of the best HQ choices in all of 5th.

You should be dragged out into the street and shot. The CSM codex is not great.

That is all.

Bignutter wrote:Having read through it all (the actual book) i'd say the marine codex is pretty balanced

sure they have lots of toys- lots of VERY destructive stuff- but it all comes at a cost- just like the other codecies

I wouldn't say it was overpowered in any one aspect- as the marines are jack of all trades- but will get beaten in a particular aspect of the game by one of the other armies...

I agree with Big. Having looked at the codex, I don't think anything's super unbalanced. It does annoy me a little bit that some of the interesting features of Chaos 4th that got taken away in Chaos 5th haven been given to the Loyalists.

Had to pull the pics, sorry guys and gals. Heard there's a version of them floating around, though I didn't make it.

On the other hand, I guess I can answer pretty definitively just about any question there is about the codex. After all that, I've practically memorized the book.

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

I almost cried when I read that. Maybe someday they'll release a Traitor Legions codex. Heh. Sure. About the same time my beloved Dark Eldar get an update that doesn't blow.

Asmodeus wrote:

Lemartes wrote:CSM dex overall is a great dex and I think will still allow more flexibility than the new marine dex. D-Princes for the points are a great option and still one of the best HQ choices in all of 5th.

You should be dragged out into the street and shot. The CSM codex is not great.

That is all.

Ultimately an army with 2 Fzorgle Princes each has got plenty going for it.

mothman_451 wrote:where did the link go?
was it taken down?

Of *course* it got taken down... :S

derek wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

Looking at "bare" squads is pointless, as nobody takes either without Las / Plas, and even GW knows it, which is why they're pushing so hard for 10-man squads with "free" equipment.

The DC Marine can be costed a few different ways, but yeah, he's fairly worth at least 30 pts, and could be argued at 35 pts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

derek wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
10 BA = 190 + 15 + 20 = 225 pts and a "FREE" DC Marine...
10 SM = 170 + 10 + 10 = 190 pts.

It's only when you factor in Transport that the SM come out ahead, due to the discounts.

They come out ahead before then, because when you're looking at 225 - 190 = 35. 35 points for a "free" model you'd pay 30 points for. If the points cost for weapons was the same it you'd be looking at only a 20 point cost for your "free" Death Company, which seems to be what they intended when a bare BA Tactical Squad is 20 points more than a Space Marine one.

Looking at "bare" squads is pointless, as nobody takes either without Las / Plas, and even GW knows it, which is why they're pushing so hard for 10-man squads with "free" equipment.

The DC Marine can be costed a few different ways, but yeah, he's fairly worth at least 30 pts, and could be argued at 35 pts.

You missed the point, we weren't looking at the cost of a bare squad, only using it as a reference of cost for their "free" Death Company marine. I doubt that the price of a Plasma Gun and Lascannon was used in their thought process to price Death Company, especially when Dark Angels spend the same ammount of points for those weapons without the benefit of a Death Company.

on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Regwon wrote:on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

shame they didn't give dreadnaughts cyclone missle launchers. four krak missle a turn would have been fun.

skkipper wrote:shame they didn't give dreadnaughts cyclone missle launchers. four krak missle a turn would have been fun.

Tell that to the marines who's cyclone's only spit out one missile.

Danny Internets wrote:

Regwon wrote:on the issue of razor backs: if you want to spend 75pts on a tank thats AV11 go right ahead. if you have anywhere near the amount of anti-tank that you should do, these will go pop on turn 1. free kill points for me. assault cannon arent what they used to be, they will do longer kill your terminators and your landraiders with ease (both of which should be in cover anyway). if you try RB spam, the likelyhood is you will lose.

Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

Not to mention they get these crazy cover saves nowadays...

Danny Internets wrote:Your army can reliably pop 6 Razorbacks a turn? What exactly are you running?

45 Lootas maybe? That will do it barring cover saves.

45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

I just took 12 AV 11 vehicles to the LVGT - and they did remarkably well. Oddly enough, even though my army had 23 potential Kill Points, my biggest wins were both of the KP missions.

stjohn70 wrote:45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

Ahh, fair enough. That said they can very reliably kill those razorbacks by turn 2. Or kill 3 even with cover.

double post

stjohn70 wrote:45 Lootas can shoot at 3 tanks a turn, doesn't matter how well they roll.

I just took 12 AV 11 vehicles to the LVGT - and they did remarkably well. Oddly enough, even though my army had 23 potential Kill Points, my biggest wins were both of the KP missions.

Is your list posted somewhere?

I'd like to see it, please!

My Army List

Essentially that is what I took. Except that I dropped all the Extra Armour off the vehicles and grabbed a 5 man Inq StormTrooper squad with 2 flamers to add to it for a 3rd scoring unit.

Redundant.

Too slow... by three seconds

stjohn70 wrote:Too slow... by three seconds

The story of my life.

dnt know if this has been said...dont feel like lookin thru 10 pages, but lysander gives his army (maybe just the termies?) some special rules, he has a strength 10 thunder hammer, and storm shields will now confer a 3+ invulnerable (possibly so people will star using more termy combat squads and not just insane amounts of assault cannons)

Wow you really should at least read the first page before posting stuff we've known for weeks.

Thanks Lormax for all the pics while they were there!
Can I get one more thing from you?
How does the Marine commander/chapter master Orbital bombardment work?

I'd love to contribute to the Q&A but for some reason my work didn't receive the advance copy of the marine dex last week.

H.B.M.C. wrote:How come the White Scar guy doesn't automatically come with a Bike? I see he makes Bikes Troops.

He makes Bikes troops if you choose to have him ride Moondrakkan, same as a regular Captain does when equipped with a Bike. I guess it's just in case you want him to join with a foot squad? Oddly considerate. At least they didn't drop the ball and forget to give him the option of riding one... like how Captain Shrike (and regular Captains with Jump Packs) let you take a Command Squad, but the Command Squad has no option to take Jump Packs. Did they just really want you to give your HQs Bikes, since they did remember to give Command Squads a Bike option? Of course, nothing says you have to attach any of your HQs to the Command Squad at all, strangely enough, but... isn't that the point of a Command Squad?

bejustorbedead wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:How come the White Scar guy doesn't automatically come with a Bike? I see he makes Bikes Troops.

He makes Bikes troops if you choose to have him ride Moondrakkan, same as a regular Captain does when equipped with a Bike. I guess it's just in case you want him to join with a foot squad? Oddly considerate. At least they didn't drop the ball and forget to give him the option of riding one... like how Captain Shrike (and regular Captains with Jump Packs) let you take a Command Squad, but the Command Squad has no option to take Jump Packs. Did they just really want you to give your HQs Bikes, since they did remember to give Command Squads a Bike option? Of course, nothing says you have to attach any of your HQs to the Command Squad at all, strangely enough, but... isn't that the point of a Command Squad?

Does placing a Master on a Bike confer the same FOC bonus, or just the Captain?

Jive Professor wrote:Does placing a Master on a Bike confer the same FOC bonus, or just the Captain?

Chapter Master doesn't have the Mounted Assault special rule listed for him, so it's just the Captain, unfortunately. You'd think it would be the other way around, or even both, but no.

Also, Stan Bush's "The Touch" is now stuck in my head. Arg.

Apparently there are no all-biker Chapters, but some Chapters have all-biker Companies.

I'm sure there are all-Biker Chapters out there, somewhere. The White Scars aren't one of 'em - as they use some different forces - all of them mobile, but not all of them bikes.

This new Codex allows you to do a very nice White Scar or Ravenwing army, in the same way the Chaos Codex allows you to make a nice Night Lord or... oh wait no the Chaos Codex doesn't do that at all...

I look forward, actually, to seeing the Legions return when the Marine Codex comes out. We can do far better Legion armies with this Codex than we can with the CSM one.

BYE