20243
Post by: Grey Templar
even if the assassing is commisioned by an inquisitor he will likely be taking somthing out that's systems away.
assassins are also known to go "rogue" working as Mercs.
8052
Post by: Terminus
I have never seen any piece of fluff that involved an assassin going rogue except that godawful LCB 4chan fanfic.
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
GK and Space Wolf omnibus's had assassins that were rogue or masterless.
8052
Post by: Terminus
Neat, I'm gonna have to check that out.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Grey Templar wrote:assassins are fine as is.
its the restriction that you HAVE to have an inquisitor to get one thats stupid.
The assassins are not fine. Considering how beloved the Inquisitors are in IG armies, it's not the prerequisite that's keeping them off the battlefield. (Hint: they suck so no one takes them).
A Word in Your Ear is funny so you can push that Land Raider into dangerous terrain, and turbo-boost round are hilarious for the sole reason that it makes Necron players froth at the mouth. That's pretty much it. They need to be looked at and re-evaluated into being useful beyond ridiculously niche roles that are worthless most of the time.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Given the general cheapening of troop choices and step up in capabilities and cost of elite choices, to leave them 100% unchanged seems unjustified. In the very least they need to be tweeked to compensate for the changed landscape of the game. While I think their minis are nice, it'd be nice to see an update.
Also, similar units in other armies are 1-3 models as a single unit. While fluff dictates that assassins generally opperate on their own, they have been mentioned as functioning in assassination teams from time to time; seems justifying enough.
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
fabulous idea.
a restriction that you can only take 1-3 as a single elites choice sounds great.
25360
Post by: ductvader
1-3 of the same assassin...or of mixed types?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I think it could be either way since they'd all run around separately. I think 1-3 assassins of a mixed or single type wouldn't be game breaking. It'd be nice to see a new assassin.
I said the assassins are tweak worthy... one of the tweaks I could see is the Vindcare's ammo being reworked. Maybe making the special ammo an upgrade, but where you could purchase multiple rounds of a given type. Or even do away with the single use of special ammo, adjust cost accordingly or make them have more of a trade off.
I brought up the idea before but we kinda moved off it fairly quickly...
Other than additional grandmasters, what type of special characters can we expect to see?
25360
Post by: ductvader
A T5 S8 Mandulis who buffs everyone 12" out?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some named Inquisitors as well...I hope.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
How about different "slayer" style grey knights who specialize towards killing different God specific daemons or daemon types?
I really think Inquisitors biggest presence in the book should come from special characters. That would give the Inquisition a bigger sense of character than the build your own squad thats currently done.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Indeed...the Avatar is a Daemon...maybe we make someone who hates him.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Brother Boniface "the Bane of Khaine"? (ha... cause it rhymes)
25360
Post by: ductvader
I really want Chaplain Durendin...because a Grey Knight Chaplain is going to rock.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Would he be armed with a Nemesis Force-crozius?
25360
Post by: ductvader
Nemesis Force Weapons come in all shapes...maces and hammers and halberds and swords...I wouldn't be surprised.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I was just being facetious over how powerful it sounds. I think its a good idea just sounds worse than it would be.
I think the image of a Chaplain in grey knight aegis armor with a two handed crozius, would be mighty impressive.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Mhmm...fluff says that Chaplains and Librarians are rare among the Grey Knights...but there's hardly a more powerful Psyker in the Imperium.
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
they don't have "librarians" like other chapters, at least not in the sense that other chapters have.
Chaplains are actually very common (and why not? since the GKs are the most pious chapter there is) and mentioned several times in the GK omnibus.
the equivilent of a battle field psyker should be represented by the addition of more(better) psychic powers for GKBCs and GKGMs. they need to be so awsome they will make other SCs look weak.
Psychic chaplains will be so awsome.
i like the 2 handed cruzius arcanum idea 
25360
Post by: ductvader
Anyone have any predictions for upgraded dreads?
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
psycannon option.
maybe a nemisis force weapon. +2 to Str so it would be Str8 on a dred.
Psychic powers.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I think they will still have a standard dreadnought, which will have the psycannon/incinerator weapon options in addition to the more librarian dreadnought, which would fill in for the venerable.
Between GK dreadnought and Blood Angels Librarian, I wouldn't be surprised if its another kit, that GW intends the two to share.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
aka_mythos wrote:Other than additional grandmasters, what type of special characters can we expect to see?
Named Grand Master (Tencendur)
Named Grand Master (Anything)
Named Grand Master Dreadnought (Anything)
Named Brother-Captain (Stern)
Named Justicar (Genhain)
Named Assault Justicar (Anything)
Named Chaplain (Anything)
Named Jetbike Rider (Anything)
Named Battle Brother (Anything)
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
Whats the Justicar in the omnibus's name?
he could be an upgrade charector like Telion and Lucas.
Definitly Chaplains.
Chaplains with psychic powers, sweeeet in so many ways.
10064
Post by: Kungfuhustler
Vhalyar wrote:
The assassins are not fine. Considering how beloved the Inquisitors are in IG armies, it's not the prerequisite that's keeping them off the battlefield. (Hint: they suck so no one takes them).
Are you serious? Asassains are awesome. I took one to ard boyz last year and he earned his points EVERY game. I semi regularly field assassins in my IG force and am trying to find to points at the moment to get one into my current tournament build. They are wildly popular in my area because they are extremely potent weapons in the hands of skilled players. Just because you don't see them in your area, or you always hear about the latest nt list does not mean they aren't used or good.
23389
Post by: cosmic pixie
I would like a stormraven that is either totally troop transporting rather than dreads or that can pick up terminators and drop them on the other side of the board.
How about a long-range stormraven with a battle cannon and some lascannons like an upgraded aries/godhammer that can fly?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Well I think you paint an interesting picture. I'm inclined to believe that GW will keep it identical between the BA and GK, minus "BA weapons" insert "GK weapons". The stormraven already has a lascannon option, but I don't see GW turning it into the smaller thunderhawk you describe. My oppinion, for all that the Storm Raven can carry, its over-armed as it is, let alone if you gave it battle cannon and more las.
That said I do think it would be appropriate that it could carry terminators, given that it can carry Assault marines with jump packs, but I don't see this happening. I'm betting PA GK lose any teleporting option and this becomes the only fast way to move them. For BA, its a novelty, for GK I'm betting it will be a necessity.
25360
Post by: ductvader
A Teleport Homer shot from orbit would be cool for grey knight teleport attack troops...let them teleport around the board...makes sense to me.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I think a teleport homer for GK would have to be carried by a unit or a special drop pod. I proposed a unit like that in the proposed rule section a while ago. Back in the Eye of Terror campaign, their was a bit of fluff: what maintains the cadian gate, keeping the eye of terror in check are these mystical massive pillars on Cadia, that add instability to the Eye and chaos. One of the reasons Chaos decided to try to take Cadia. My idea was that it was a special drop pod, that didn't just carry a teleport homer but also a chunk of that same material... acting like the scrambler the LS Storm has while causing an instability to daemons within a distance of it. Some sort of each turn a daemonic unit takes 1d6 StrX hits.
25360
Post by: ductvader
DH causing Instability...I like it...kind of like a sanctuary being forced into their essence...and disrupting their existence
23389
Post by: cosmic pixie
I was joking about the battle cannon but the terminator thing should be avalable as even a mini thunderhawk could hold termies.
It would be good to have an option to either get the hurricane bolters OR be able to transport termies.
23389
Post by: cosmic pixie
I was joking about the battle cannon but the terminator thing should be avalable as even a mini thunderhawk could hold termies.
It would be good to have an option to either get the hurricane bolters OR be able to transport termies.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Hurricane Bolters for sure...Terminators...ah...we have LRs...fitting 6 Terminators in one is good for sure but I don't see it happening.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Power Armour Grey Knights? Forget those, it seems like they'll no longer exist.
Instead, they are getting replaced with... Artificer Armour Grey Knights
Talk about an awesome start on making those 25 point troops and 50 point justicars feel more justified. Depending on how things like Aegis armour and the Shrouding are handled, they could (and I sure hope so) climb up to 30 points. Now that's an army composed of the cream of the crop.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Low model count for the win.
20901
Post by: Luke_Prowler
ductvader wrote:Low model count for the win.
Forget low model count. That is "where's the rest of your army?" model count. That's "But I have to play 1000 pts to fit the FOC" model count.
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
thats fine, since the game pretty much breaks down below 1000 points.
at least from a units and FOC point of view.
Artificer armor would be a great substitute for the rules that no longer apply.
25 or 30 points for a NFW, WS5, Stormbolter, artificer armor, shrouding, and aegis on a marine is totally a fair price.
25360
Post by: ductvader
We should just be able to take squads as small as 3 men...like our purgation squads.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Luke_Prowler wrote:ductvader wrote:Low model count for the win.
Forget low model count. That is "where's the rest of your army?" model count. That's "But I have to play 1000 pts to fit the FOC" model count.
It's not really that bad 
Let's go with 30 point a pop. 8 battle brothers + 1 justicar in the unit.
That's 30 x 8, or 240 points. Add in a justicar at 60 and that's 300 points.
So you can nearly get two squads at maximum size for 600 points. There's your mandatory troops.
Well, assuming that BB are at 30 points and Justicars only go up by 10.
Then you can toss in, let's say, 200 points for your HQ.
So 800 points for the mandatory slots (at near maximum size). Alright, so it's not 1000 points but it's close...
25360
Post by: ductvader
You aren't going to need full squads with these kinds of saves...leaves room for a storm raven.
20901
Post by: Luke_Prowler
well, if you include the Psycannons for each squad, that's an additional 100 pts
8052
Post by: Terminus
Vhalyar wrote:Power Armour Grey Knights? Forget those, it seems like they'll no longer exist.
Instead, they are getting replaced with... Artificer Armour Grey Knights
Talk about an awesome start on making those 25 point troops and 50 point justicars feel more justified. Depending on how things like Aegis armour and the Shrouding are handled, they could (and I sure hope so) climb up to 30 points. Now that's an army composed of the cream of the crop.
As it should be! Then get rid of the true grit ability entirely and give them 2 base attacks. Then they'll be worth 25 points. Give each unit's Justicar a psychic power, and then he's worth 50.
Every day without a GK release is pure agony! 
25360
Post by: ductvader
Base 3 for the justicar?
4 WS5 S6 power weapon attacks on the charge?
dang
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
sounds good
The good news is when they do come out and are frakkin awsome we, the players who started when they were "lame", can't be accused of 
and we will have metal GKs to prove it
8052
Post by: Terminus
I don't mind them being very expensive as long as they are proportionally uber to compensate. These guys should be the elite among the elite among the elite.
And 4 WS5 S6 power weapon attacks aren't that bad. Hell, we have dreadnoughts with 5 WS6 S7 lightning claws I5 attacks, with an extra attack for every kill .
25360
Post by: ductvader
Now what's going to happen to GK Terminators if the Trrops are this buff?
8052
Post by: Terminus
I don't think there needs to be a terrible distinction. The Terminator gains the invulnerable save, a power weapon and a relentless storm-bolter. Beyond that, I see no reason why their stat-lines should be much different.
Terminators and regular GK should both be troop choices, with the option to take deep-striking terminators as elites, and deep-striking PAGK as fast attack. Add some Stormravens and dedicated Raiders, and viola.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Okay...but at then we at least need a usable storm shield
25360
Post by: ductvader
Okay...but at then we at least need a useable storm shield
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then we at least need a worthwhile Stormshield...that doesn't just work in close combat and only against one enemy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also don't know if anyone has realized our thunderhammers cause a crew stunned result as long as they hit...they don't even have to glance to do it.
Have fun.
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
the new SS rules are a given.
i belive vanilla THs do that as well.
Terminators as troops? that would be awsome.
so would say then there would be no reason to take normal GKs, but the inevitable lack of bodies from going all termies would make them valuable
25360
Post by: ductvader
Vanill TH only do it in addition to other damage...ours do it if it even hits
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Terminus wrote:I don't think there needs to be a terrible distinction. The Terminator gains the invulnerable save, a power weapon and a relentless storm-bolter. Beyond that, I see no reason why their stat-lines should be much different.
Terminators and regular GK should both be troop choices, with the option to take deep-striking terminators as elites, and deep-striking PAGK as fast attack. Add some Stormravens and dedicated Raiders, and viola.
You're forgetting that Terminators get a psychic power whereas PAGK don't. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that they'll either get a selection of powers, or a more useful one.
As for Terminators in the troop FOC, that doesn't strike me as very likely or useful. PAGK already cost a tiny fortune to field and you get a low headcount, which is problematic in objective missions. On the other hand, imagine if GK Terminators could hold objectives like troops! Now that would a great way to help GK when capturing/holding objectives is involved.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Work like troops...I feel that you would need a special Brother captain terminator leader to make this happen.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Terminus wrote:I don't think there needs to be a terrible distinction. The Terminator gains the invulnerable save, a power weapon and a relentless storm-bolter. Beyond that, I see no reason why their stat-lines should be much different.
Stormbolters are assault weapons, so being relentless is a moot point.
27309
Post by: Lewa2321
Brother SRM wrote:Terminus wrote:I don't think there needs to be a terrible distinction. The Terminator gains the invulnerable save, a power weapon and a relentless storm-bolter. Beyond that, I see no reason why their stat-lines should be much different.
Stormbolters are assault weapons, so being relentless is a moot point.
Relentless Psycannons, on the other hand, are all flavors of awesome.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Lewa2321 wrote:Brother SRM wrote:Terminus wrote:I don't think there needs to be a terrible distinction. The Terminator gains the invulnerable save, a power weapon and a relentless storm-bolter. Beyond that, I see no reason why their stat-lines should be much different.
Stormbolters are assault weapons, so being relentless is a moot point.
Relentless Psycannons, on the other hand, are all flavors of awesome.
Why have I not realized this? (+1 INT)
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
CoolKidRoc over at Warseer posted this rumour/confirmation on the GK and DE release. Being cautious, I'd rather post it here than starting another Grey Knight thread 
CoolKidRoc wrote:So while I was up at my local GW I was talking with a Red Shirt and Black Shirt. I purchasing a Inquisitor and the guy asked if I new the Plastics for the GKs were coming out soon. I asked if that was now confirmed and he said Yes. I asked when, and he told me that they had beat out DE for release, but that DE was also confirmed as arriving by Christmas.
Evidently the information comes from a conference out in Las Vegas.
The facts I know from the conversation.
1. Inquisitor Dex will arrive before DE
2. DE by Christmas
3. Inquisitor Dex will be after 8th Ed Fantasy
4. One Codex to contain all Ordo's, Malleous, Xeno, and Heriric
5. Sisters will not be present in the Dex, but will have there own Codex at a later time.
6. Deathwatch/Alien Hunters will be present
Other info based on them not actually getting to see the Codex but talking with the people, sounds like you'll still be able to build a pure GK army, and sounds like it will be more useful. Points Drop on PAGKs, TGKs to stay about the same point cost but be better.
That's about all I know for now, more info to come as I get it.
25360
Post by: ductvader
*crickets*
Sorry, it all sounds so nice and neat...but there's been so many rumors lately that I am sure any real GK player out there right now doesn't believe in specifics yet.
|
|
