Yes warhounds can. They are also much more vulnerable with two void shields only. A pack of flyers (whatever those skimmers are called) or AT-ATs would give warhounds fits.
The ones that would do the real damage and can take the concentrated hits-reaver/warlouds/and near mythical imper ators (if even in the fight) would not move quickly and would be subject to shooting from the heavies. Of course, those heavies are also subject to artillery park fire from manticores and basilisks, or waves of Lemans doing their own rooskie crossing the Fulda Gap with more tanks than god imitation.
It would. Any sort of toxin in that amount would make the air unbreathable. Not to mention the fact that if it didn't it would do to smaller creatures thus wiping out all off the food chain.
anyway orks would win by the whole you can't actually wipe them out and any left alive create more so would win in the end
Um, no, it wouldn't, a topical antifungal would not be lethal to humans or native flora, much less "make the air unbreathable". At most, if you were exposed to a whole bunch of it, you'd get a rash and maybe some headaches and diarrhea if you inhaled a bunch of it. Trust me, I know my medications, I'll kind of have a Doctor of Pharmacy degree in about 9 months.
Im sure the GE could create a toxin that is safe for humies, I mean they're not advance-a-phobic like IoM. Anyway, the title of this thread is Imperium of Man vs. Star Wars galactic Empire, orks are irrelevent.
An AT-AT would be smashed by even a reaver, a gatling blaster could take down shields and then a turbo-las could blow it all up. And a deathstrike or manti would destroy troop formations. Although, since the GE likes to improve there technology rather than keep it hidden and wait for it to be destroyed, they supposedly could create some missile defence system to shoot them down.
PS I would love to see a lightsaber attempt to deflect a turbo laser shot
Really? Because Orks are mentioned in the OP. Much like the Federation thread, it seems people just read the topic title and then went off half-cocked.
Frazzled wrote:2. Ork Empires vs. Galactic Empire.
GE-as above.
Orks-major waugh incursion into GE space.
GE scientists invent antifungal spray. Waagh ends with a whimper.
That would not be all that effective against greenskins, I think. I believe they have an animal DNA strand also, which would possibly give them great resistance to the effects of that antifungal spray. Not sure about that, though, so take it with a pinch of salt.
Terminus you are sort of talking about covering an entire planet in a fungaside that is designed to kill 6ft talking fungus that can rip you in half. It'd have to be strong and there'd have to be a lot. I do however agree with the statement about most just reading the title.
After this debate I want to see GE v crons or GE v nids
Make the thread Rowan. I'd think GE in its full glory including production sufficient to deal with numbers of droids cited in wookiepedia vs. Nids would be more interesting.
Or of course Zentraedi vs. the combined Hive Fleets (and/or fully awakened necrons) just to make it fair.
It would dissipate in short order, natural flora would be minimally affected, and any GE troops around are sporting vacuum-sealed armor. Worst case scenario, if the fungicides have to be made potent enough that they damage the planet's agricultural output or even kill all other life on the planet (say a super duper version of a dicarboximide), GE can afford to get play scorched earth with a single planet (hell, very similar to the solution the Imperium takes , except their method of blowing everything up just tosses the fungal spores into space).
And I think SW scientists they are more than technologically capable of creating something specific, as evidenced by their adaptation to Vong technology which is equally complicated. Hell, the Imperium's scientists were able to isolate the base creature that makes up all Tyranids, and if Necrons hadn't jacked the research, would have probably manufactured a toxin that would have annihilated several hive fleets before they adapted.
yeah but you can't really consider destroying the planet a win, at best it's a draw or a slight loose as although the enemy don't gain anything the GE loose a planet.
Lol. But still you guys forget they don't have access to thousands of this stuff. Only like a couple or more. But still you can't say oh look at this we have this incredibley rare item that we will waste. It is stuck where it is placed. Shot down by an imperial Interceptor. If the Imperium were back to its orginial setting it would be awesome. But its not. Plus it really matters which chapter is involved. If it was the Salamanders. Salamanders would pwn thanks to mobile Lasercannon. Try and deflect a damn planet killer Damn sith. and guys read this
"The All Terrain Armored Heavy Transport (AT-AHT) was a walker in service with Darth Krayt's Galactic Empire and the Empire-in-exile that opposed it. "
COULDN'T USE IT
The various Juggernaut-models were gradually phased out, and during the Galactic Civil War, they primarily served on battlefronts in the Outer Rim. Some fell into the hands of the Rebel Alliance. It appears that the Heavy Assault Vehicle Transport B5 Juggernaut served as its successor, even though its purpose was different. A6s were deployed in the Battle of Hoth.
Were put into the Outer rim. Some Were taken by rebels.
The v-150 Planet Defender anti-orbital ion cannon was a heavy ion cannon of the Clone Wars era, built by Kuat Drive Yards. It was designed by Can Lar, who originally attempted to sell the design to CoMar Weapons. Before the introduction of the v-150, anti-orbital ion cannons were considered to be an engineering impossibility. During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic came in possession of several v-150s, placing them at the most important of bases.
Engineering impossiblility. And it cannot move it only points upward. Only can take out Massive Ships. But the thing is that it cannot TARGET GROUND FORCES! Not only that but it was expensive and some of it were taken by the rebels. So don't give me this BS.
Asherian Command wrote:Lol. But still you guys forget they don't have access to thousands of this stuff. Only like a couple or more. But still you can't say oh look at this we have this incredibley rare item that we will waste. It is stuck where it is placed. Shot down by an imperial Interceptor. If the Imperium were back to its orginial setting it would be awesome. But its not. Plus it really matters which chapter is involved. If it was the Salamanders. Salamanders would pwn thanks to mobile Lasercannon. Try and deflect a damn planet killer Damn sith.
and guys read this
"The All Terrain Armored Heavy Transport (AT-AHT) was a walker in service with Darth Krayt's Galactic Empire and the Empire-in-exile that opposed it. "
COULDN'T USE IT
The various Juggernaut-models were gradually phased out, and during the Galactic Civil War, they primarily served on battlefronts in the Outer Rim. Some fell into the hands of the Rebel Alliance. It appears that the Heavy Assault Vehicle Transport B5 Juggernaut served as its successor, even though its purpose was different. A6s were deployed in the Battle of Hoth.
Were put into the Outer rim. Some Were taken by rebels.
The v-150 Planet Defender anti-orbital ion cannon was a heavy ion cannon of the Clone Wars era, built by Kuat Drive Yards. It was designed by Can Lar, who originally attempted to sell the design to CoMar Weapons. Before the introduction of the v-150, anti-orbital ion cannons were considered to be an engineering impossibility. During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic came in possession of several v-150s, placing them at the most important of bases.
Engineering impossiblility. And it cannot move it only points upward. Only can take out Massive Ships. But the thing is that it cannot TARGET GROUND FORCES!
Not only that but it was expensive and some of it were taken by the rebels.
So don't give me this BS.
Unrestricted access to titans and superheavies for the IoM though. Pot, the kettle's calling.
1. Imperium of Man vs. Galactic Empire (from Clone Wars to Jedi Returns for reference)
IM-Guard up to Legions with navy support (aircraft and landers). Marines on occasion.
GE-clone forces
This can be multiple planet or a single planet
How would they stack up?
2. Ork Empires vs. Galactic Empire.
GE-as above.
Orks-major waugh incursion into GE space.
It matters on production if it is techincally impossible and they have access to more of stuff. Then you can say that you can give us all conversion beamers. -.-
Well, as far as IoM vs. GE, you could argue that both are in decline. The technology shown in KOTOR-era is easily the match, if not outright superior to the stuff that the GE churns out. The two Empires even have a similar approach to training: churn out recruits as fast as possible, because it's cheaper to build another rickety TIE fighter and stick a barely competent goon in it than train elite pilots in top of the line expensive fighters.
Of course, the TIE Defender kind of is an exception, but that was mostly used by Shadowspawn.
Terminus wrote:Well, as far as IoM vs. GE, you could argue that both are in decline. The technology shown in KOTOR-era is easily the match, if not outright superior to the stuff that the GE churns out. The two Empires even have a similar approach to training: churn out recruits as fast as possible, because it's cheaper to build another rickety TIE fighter and stick a barely competent goon in it than train elite pilots in top of the line expensive fighters.
Of course, the TIE Defender kind of is an exception, but that was mostly used by Shadowspawn.
felixthecat345 wrote:In CC I think a power weapon would beat a lightsaber: Power weapons have energy fields that cut through anything, lightsabers are just blades of heat.
wrong, its the other way around, lightsabers can cut through almost anything, power weapons dont deal very well with thick armour (tanks) . IRL lightsabers would also ignore storm shields, but somehow you can stop lightsabers with anything they dont cut through.
felixthecat345 wrote:In CC I think a power weapon would beat a lightsaber: Power weapons have energy fields that cut through anything, lightsabers are just blades of heat.
wrong, its the other way around, lightsabers can cut through almost anything, power weapons dont deal very well with thick armour (tanks) . IRL lightsabers would also ignore storm shields, but somehow you can stop lightsabers with anything they dont cut through.
so 10 jedi/sith without using force powers against 10 TH/SS termis lets see... hit first, break right on thru the shields... boom in like 30 seconds the terminators are dead or dying.
You can't assume that. -.- STorm shields are massive shield generators. Plus If anyone has seen the totally Awesome Knights of the Old Republic I could say that if we are talking about the Old Republic they would win. But were not. But still Sith agianst termi's Adamantium is the hardest material known to the imperium and can take the heat of stars. I think it could resist a Lightsaber. ever since lightsabers are made from Plasma.
Asherian Command wrote:You can't assume that. -.- STorm shields are massive shield generators. Plus If anyone has seen the totally Awesome Knights of the Old Republic I could say that if we are talking about the Old Republic they would win. But were not. But still Sith agianst termi's Adamantium is the hardest material known to the imperium and can take the heat of stars. I think it could resist a Lightsaber. ever since lightsabers are made from Plasma.
Yet plasma guns/cannons or las cannons pierce Terminator armor with ease.
Don't forget a force user would be able to bypass the storm shield easily, simple backflip over the termie lightsaber blade through the eye slit... dead termie. Terminator would move way to slow to be much use vs a force user.
Termie vs troops, termies would win at first until mass fire is brought down on them, the GE under Palps would not care if the troops that were fighting were killed along them.
Single shot from a Ion cannon artillery piece would stop a termie cold as well. Hell enough Ion cannons would stop a marine assault as well. overloading the power armor circuits freezing the marines in place.
Asherian Command wrote:You can't assume that. -.- STorm shields are massive shield generators. Plus If anyone has seen the totally Awesome Knights of the Old Republic I could say that if we are talking about the Old Republic they would win. But were not. But still Sith agianst termi's Adamantium is the hardest material known to the imperium and can take the heat of stars. I think it could resist a Lightsaber. ever since lightsabers are made from Plasma.
Yet plasma guns/cannons or las cannons pierce Terminator armor with ease.
Don't forget a force user would be able to bypass the storm shield easily, simple backflip over the termie lightsaber blade through the eye slit... dead termie. Terminator would move way to slow to be much use vs a force user.
Termie vs troops, termies would win at first until mass fire is brought down on them, the GE under Palps would not care if the troops that were fighting were killed along them.
Single shot from a Ion cannon artillery piece would stop a termie cold as well. Hell enough Ion cannons would stop a marine assault as well. overloading the power armor circuits freezing the marines in place.
The v-150 Planet Defender anti-orbital ion cannon was a heavy ion cannon of the Clone Wars era, built by Kuat Drive Yards. It was designed by Can Lar, who originally attempted to sell the design to CoMar Weapons. Before the introduction of the v-150, anti-orbital ion cannons were considered to be an engineering impossibility. During the Galactic Civil War, the Alliance to Restore the Republic came in possession of several v-150s, placing them at the most important of bases.
Engineering impossiblility. And it cannot move it only points upward. Only can take out Massive Ships. But the thing is that it cannot TARGET GROUND FORCES!
Not only that but it was expensive and some of it were taken by the rebels.
So don't give me this BS.
Words in Red =key words that disprove your erronious statements(Highlighted in orange)
Words in yellow= Statements that have no proof or even reference from the quotes you posted
-.- Really? You guys didn't read that This thread is just a bunch of iduiotic people who are paranoid people that all are trying to target your thoughts -.-
Its just a thought not a ACTUAL POINT!
Plus i can work for Empire. I like both universes. I like Star Wars univerise because it's outside the box.
40k is great for people who just get bored.
But you still don't denial that you cna't have walkers that you showed. But they still cannot target walkers. Or else the Rebels would of won the battle of hoth.
Anyway the Old Republic trailer came out and I do have to say one thing it looks pretty darn humanly possible for people to do what a jedi can do. But you are comparing it to a super human that is pretty fast in 20 tons of armor or so.
But still have to say i WANT THIS GAME
but still we don't know how it would play out so i'll gather all my starwars mini's agianst my fully armed battle company too see what happens Anyway hope you like it I watched the trailer hope of the next trailer and it was awesome as hell.
Rebellion had LIMITED resources. They had a single gun and were overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
In that case you use the weapon to clear a path for the evacuation.(And yes, I've seen the Family Guy episode making fun of this contrived plot point. Funny as heck.)
focusedfire wrote:I really like them. If only episodes 1-3 had been that good. Don't know what Lucas was thinking with those movies.
Well, the be completely honest, the only truly good Star Wars movie was not directed by Lucas. A New Hope and to a lesser extent RoTJ are good by association with the awesome Empire Strikes Back (this is the movie that actually gave depth to the characters and set a more mature tone than just "yay, unlikely heroes in spess!").
Episodes 1-3 are an abortion, not for the story they tell, but mostly the awful pacing and editing. Look how fast Anakin fell in the third movie. In literally about 2 minutes, he went from "I will be an honorable and just Jedi and stop the Sith!" to hacking up children. Oh, I'm sorry, I meant younglings, so the emotional impact of what he did doesn't register with young viewers and they still buy his merchandise. It's like Lucas spent the first two movies and half of the third one jacking it to his special effects (which are frankly far from revolutionary these days), then remembered he was actually trying to tell the story of the rise of Vader, and tried to quickly knock it out in about 45 minutes.
And despite his defense that the movie is "for children" (which is kind of bogus, look at the footage of the lines for ESB and ROTJ original theatrical release, the vast majority were all in their late teens or early 20s), even he realizes his movie sucks. If you watch the documentary of how they made the film, if you watch the faces of Lucas and the crew after the credits rolled on Phantom Menace, they knew, to the very depths of their cold and soulless hearts, that they made an enormous stinker. And is anyone else amused by the fact that the people that work for Lucas Arts are never excited to meet Lucas but rather treat his visits with apprehension and palpable fear?
focusedfire wrote:I really like them. If only episodes 1-3 had been that good. Don't know what Lucas was thinking with those movies.
Well, the be completely honest, the only truly good Star Wars movie was not directed by Lucas. A New Hope and to a lesser extent RoTJ are good by association with the awesome Empire Strikes Back (this is the movie that actually gave depth to the characters and set a more mature tone than just "yay, unlikely heroes in spess!").
Episodes 1-3 are an abortion, not for the story they tell, but mostly the awful pacing and editing. Look how fast Anakin fell in the third movie. In literally about 2 minutes, he went from "I will be an honorable and just Jedi and stop the Sith!" to hacking up children. Oh, I'm sorry, I meant younglings, so the emotional impact of what he did doesn't register with young viewers and they still buy his merchandise. It's like Lucas spent the first two movies and half of the third one jacking it to his special effects (which are frankly far from revolutionary these days), then remembered he was actually trying to tell the story of the rise of Vader, and tried to quickly knock it out in about 45 minutes.
And despite his defense that the movie is "for children" (which is kind of bogus, look at the footage of the lines for ESB and ROTJ original theatrical release, the vast majority were all in their late teens or early 20s), even he realizes his movie sucks. If you watch the documentary of how they made the film, if you watch the faces of Lucas and the crew after the credits rolled on Phantom Menace, they knew, to the very depths of their cold and soulless hearts, that they made an enormous stinker. And is anyone else amused by the fact that the people that work for Lucas Arts are never excited to meet Lucas but rather treat his visits with apprehension and palpable fear?
so by that reasoning lucas is palpatine then to them
So I find myself in a state of fever, reading through this interesting thread, quietly chuckling to myself when suddenly a few points assail me with their undeniable message and I am forced to speak
-firstly; in a strict ground war (which this thread is about) the Imperium would crush the Empire, due to a great number of points already brought up, worth mentioning though is that if you live in a more or less constant state of war for around ten thousand years, you are bound to learn a thing or two, even if innovation and free thinking is outlawed as heresy... and ofc the titan legions, I mean, the Empire simply dosent have anything readily avialable to even come close to matching them in terms of ground warfare yes... Hurr, "Unleash the fury of mankinds lost technological might..." durr, always loved that line
(concerning space warfare (which this thread does not concern) though, the tables are switched and the Empire clearly has the upper hand instead, since Hyperspeed is FAR more reliable, safer and faster than the inferior Warptravel, and since the majority of the Astartes would be left twiddling their gigantic thumbs save for the odd boarding action)
-secondly; I cannot resist any longer
Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Bah who you kidding, the Sith would find a way to infiltrate and take over. The sith can yell "for the emperor" just as easy...
that is why the ordo hereticus exists.
-lastly; both me and my friend in the bunny suit, here, frank, thank you for a wonderful thread on this most feverish of days
Straightjacket wrote:
-secondly; I cannot resist any longer
Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Bah who you kidding, the Sith would find a way to infiltrate and take over. The sith can yell "for the emperor" just as easy...
that is why the ordo hereticus exists.
everyone forgets about the poor old ordo hereticus
Ordo hereticious really doesn't do anything for this debate, The Ordos are for after the conquest not during... granted SoB might be of an asset, but the INQ would be slaughtered.
Yeah that was my initial thought. If a commander can do that what would a marine be able to do and what would a grey knight be able to do. And if a commander can take lightning to the face from what is supposedly a moderately powerful force user imagine what the more advanced marine armour would put up against it
Asherian Command wrote:Huh? What? did see the trailer. a Commando took out 5 sith just by running past them.
Need to realize this was a cinematic and was like that for dramatic effect. Also the rule of 2 was not in place and like many other expanded universe dark force user armies most of them are either clones, quickly recruited, and extremley rushed in training.
The comparative power of the weapons technology could be a factor. After all if a simple pistol can drill a hole right through a stormtrooper and light his chest on fire, I have no idea if it was really a matter of weak armor, or extremely hard hitting bolts of blast whatever. Factor the Ewoks out with their rocks and sticks for kiddies sakes and the GE is pretty menacing. For all we know the standard blaster is S6 ap2 or something, explaining why the stormtroopers drop so easy.
With unlimited reinforcements neither side would be able to win. Regardless of who had superior tech or not if there at that many soldiers from both sides it would simply turn into a stalemate. If however there was no way to bring in reinforcements due to no space ships that would be a diff story as it would require different tactics than simply there is the enemy throw yourselves at them, which both sides seem to employ.
A fairer situation would be along the lines of a single IG army vs a single Clone army.
I dont know what the structure of IG armies are but using a SW Systems army consisting of 2 Sector Armies (294,912 troops) led by a High Jedi General.
I dunno what the numbers of the IG would be but this would at least provide a decent comparison instead of 2 unlimited numbers armies.
Another interesting situation would be a SM Legion vs a SW Systems army.
The SM, say the Ultramarines including primarch Roboute Guillaume would be a tough call.
Dan the Crusader wrote:With unlimited reinforcements neither side would be able to win. Regardless of who had superior tech or not if there at that many soldiers from both sides it would simply turn into a stalemate. If however there was no way to bring in reinforcements due to no space ships that would be a diff story as it would require different tactics than simply there is the enemy throw yourselves at them, which both sides seem to employ.
Agreed, although Palps would just destroy the planet, hell he tricked the bothans into committing genocide on the Camas, just becuase they disagreed with him. He is that brutal.
Dan the Crusader wrote:A fairer situation would be along the lines of a single IG army vs a single Clone army.
I dont know what the structure of IG armies are but using a SW Systems army consisting of 2 Sector Armies (294,912 troops) led by a High Jedi General.
I dunno what the numbers of the IG would be but this would at least provide a decent comparison instead of 2 unlimited numbers armies.
True this would be a fairer assessment. Although it would not be just one Jedi master, but multiple Jedi assigned to that army, masters, knight and padawans.
Dan the Crusader wrote:Another interesting situation would be a SM Legion vs a SW Systems army.
The SM, say the Ultramarines including primarch Roboute Guillaume would be a tough call.
This would be more interesting, true. Although a SM Chapter would lose. I seriously doubt that 1000 Marines are equal to 294,000 Clone troopers, with all their equipment, and accompanying Jedi.
Jedi / Sith are an entirely different matter. And I wonder how Jedi / Sith would really fare in the 40k universe where they had to contend with the Warp instead of hte Force.
Even better, I wonder how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they had the relatively benign Force to deal with instead of the maliciousness of the Warp. Battle Meditation is an advanced, rarely learned power amongst Jedis, but the equivalent in the Imperium is a fairly standard application of psychic power.
Just thinking about how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they did not have to fear daemonic possession or the other side effects of using the energy of the Warp? One properly trained Battle Psyker could take on hundreds, if not thousands of clones by him/herself. They could and probably would be the equal or superior to the Jedi / Sith.
And if the Jedi had to deal with the Warp instead of the Force, I'm fairly certain it'd be a perfect recipe for another Jedi civil war. Chaos is far more subversive than the Dark Side of the Force.
It becomes bleaker for the Empire assuming there's only the two Sith Lords at the head of the Empire and no others (after all, they're going after and killing force sensitives they find). They are powerful and skilled, yes, but against the Imperium backed by unhindered psychic power? They're no match.
Klawz wrote:There are no Jedi. There is no spoon. This is the Galactic Empire.
Uhhh... can you pay attention to the thread? Please.
Clone army from the clone wars time period is perfectly acceptable.
Hence lots of Jedi and no Sith.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Jedi / Sith are an entirely different matter. And I wonder how Jedi / Sith would really fare in the 40k universe where they had to contend with the Warp instead of hte Force.
Even better, I wonder how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they had the relatively benign Force to deal with instead of the maliciousness of the Warp. Battle Meditation is an advanced, rarely learned power amongst Jedis, but the equivalent in the Imperium is a fairly standard application of psychic power.
There is no equivalent of Battle Meditation in the Imperium. If a psyker even tried something similiar they would be killed immediately. Unless you don't understand what BM actually is.
Melissia wrote:Just thinking about how powerful Imperial Psykers could be if they did not have to fear daemonic possession or the other side effects of using the energy of the Warp? One properly trained Battle Psyker could take on hundreds, if not thousands of clones by him/herself. They could and probably would be the equal or superior to the Jedi / Sith.
They would be no more powerful then any other force user. Taking on 100s if not 1000s is laughable.
i seriously doubt that a psyker in the GE would even be close to a jedi or sith.
Melissia wrote:And if the Jedi had to deal with the Warp instead of the Force, I'm fairly certain it'd be a perfect recipe for another Jedi civil war. Chaos is far more subversive than the Dark Side of the Force.
Incorrect. The dark side is something you have to watch out for all the time... not so with Chaos.
Melissia wrote:It becomes bleaker for the Empire assuming there's only the two Sith Lords at the head of the Empire and no others (after all, they're going after and killing force sensitives they find). They are powerful and skilled, yes, but against the Imperium backed by unhindered psychic power? They're no match.
Exactly. -.- Havoc you may bring great points up but you cannot say those if you have no evidence and no one else to completely back you up.
AND I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE CLONE VS Space Marine Chapter.
OK!
Aurora Chapter vs Clones. Aurora Chapter wins thanks to thousands of heavy weaponry. OK 1,000 space marines is a lot look at the Astral Knights they pwned the Necrons. millions of them. If we are talking game terms then yes. But fluff wise NO.
See space marines are no push overs. Not only that but space marines have a lot of scouts there are not just 100 of them. That is complete BS. lots of them are in training. Except for blood ravens they are just stupid.
1 Space marine can take on hundreds of orcs by himself. READ THE Fing fluff before you make that assumption.
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
Completely true. Just look at a most heretics most of them are psykers because one moment their will gave in. And Demons took their soul. See the Dark Side you can be forgiven for. Hersey and killing innocents for personnel and just for fun is not forgiveable. All humans have their flaws. Except Space Marines. Because they are not human.
The only ones that were human were the legions.
That's not really a good argument, as Dark Jedi and Sith (not the same thing) have done some pretty horrible things. Like wiping out all life on planets just because they were annoyed that the one person they were chasing got away.
Asherian Command wrote:Completely true. Just look at a most heretics most of them are psykers because one moment their will gave in. And Demons took their soul. See the Dark Side you can be forgiven for. Hersey and killing innocents for personnel and just for fun is not forgiveable. All humans have their flaws. Except Space Marines. Because they are not human.
The only ones that were human were the legions.
Sorry most heretics are not psykers or the Imperium would be in HUGE trouble. Most heretics are simply people or guardsmen who have been corrupted by the allure of Chaos. Demon possession rarely ends well for the (psyker) host and they almost always act as a portal for more Demons before/while dying a grisly death. SMs do in fact have flaws, just look at Dark Angels, the inner darkness/untrustworthyness from our primarch is just one example.
Its hard to compare psykers to jedi or sith because they ase different sources for their power.
The source of their ower may be the reason why one is stronger and the other weaker. And the drawbacks balance out the strngths, it may be true that psykers are stronger but if they didnt have to worry about demonic possesion then they wouldnt be using the warp and then that would make them weaker that is the point of their warp powers. The force draws energy from all living things but doesnt have the drawback of demonic possesion but it appears to be weaker. If force users were drawing power from the warp then they would be stronger and would just be like psykers and would have the same problems.
If Jedi were in the war then they would be using their power differently than the sith, the Jedi would be healing and doing things that help their troops, whilst the sith would be focusing on destroying everything and gaining more power. Its likely that sith would try and control the warp to become stronger but would inevitably fall to the forces of chaos due to their thirst for power.
I wasnt saying a single chapter of marines but a legion 10,000. And the Ultramarines were just an example it could be Imperial fists or someone else who may or may not be better than them. Even a Fallen Legion would pose an interesting hypothetical due to them not really being concered with the warp and their psykers being more powerful.
So it would be like 10,000 marines with all their equiptment against 294,00 clones and their equiptment. I think that would be very close to call.
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
i don't believe that for a moment. the imperium is stagnant at best while the galactic empire is ever moving forward with new tech, new weapons, new armor, and new strategies in order to deal with new threats
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
Whatever.
Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
Whatever.
Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.
except we are talking about a bloody ground war, not a space war. ground war both sides are about even and it really depends on who struck first. space war on the other hand.... empire beats imperium with a 2000 meter pole
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
Whatever.
Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.
Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.
Read something besides the over the top black library works.
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
Whatever.
Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.
Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.
Read something besides the over the top black library works.
I believe he is agreeing with you by listing some things others have said in support of SW and aserting that you are not reading what the other SW posters are posting.
Read something besides the over the top expanded universe books?
1: I do. And actually there is. Dark Heresy even describes it as something that Imperial Psykers commonly do, though the power of most Psykers is not so great that they can effect entire armies-- but then, the power of most Jedi isn't that great either, now is it? Battle Meditation is a very rare skill. Generally rarely more than one Jedi in a generation.
2: To be a psyker is to break the laws of reality with the strength of one's will. Jedi can't create fire so hot it burns the soul as well as the body-- damaging the very essence of daemons, who would normally shrug off such fires. Jedi can't create a field of stopped time through which nothing can pass. Jedi can't boil a person's blood with a mere thought. Jedi can't literally roll back time. All of these, and more, Psykers can do. And these are just some of the less subtle ones, and not even the least subtle ones.
3: Then you know nothing of the forces and powers of Chaos. Indeed, Psykers are in far more danger than Jedi ever are, even in the places where the Dark Side flows strongest. To lose oneself to the Dark Side is simply to be corrupted. But to be posseessed by a daemon of Chaos is far, far worse than mere corruption...
It is funny how the IoM as you state are so incredibly over the top powerful... and nothing the GE bring to the table is comparable...
This thread has gotten to be pointless, much like the other threads that are similiar. The IoM is the bestest empire... the biggest guns... best armor... best psykers... Nothing will ever compare, Right?
Whatever.
Gravity wells!!! FTL travel!!! 690 Gtons Torpedos!!! We can blast you away with destructive missiles!!!
Read what your fellow arguers are posting.
Nice, You can't come up with a legitimate response so you write a childish response.
Read something besides the over the top black library works.
I believe he is agreeing with you by listing some things others have said in support of SW and aserting that you are not reading what the other SW posters are posting.
Read something besides the over the top expajavascript:emoticon ended universe books?
Can you guys actually post legitimite information. its kinda stupid if you guys don't have support for your information for both sides. This is suppose to be a well rounded disscussion. Meaning that we need to be a little more Considerate of other posters. In that I mean stop reading the first quotes. I can't support either one. I love star wars and 40k. But if they teamed up they would pwn everything .
But still the possiblities of them fighting each other are higher than teaming up with each other. The Ground war is the ONLY ELEMENT OF THIS DISCUSSION NOT THE SPACE WAR.
If you want to make a thread of the Space war make it. But everyone is getting quite touchy at this subject.
Also The Empire has alot of great machines only thing is that they would be fighting legions of Guardsmen.
Also if it was the Old Republic i would say that they would be fighting each other for a long time. And is it just me or is it that the Star Wars races have had the same weaponry for a long time?
Asherian Command wrote:Well I really don't care who wins. And I don't get offended by posting its the internet its already offensive to everyone.
Nor do I, but we need to take a technological/strategic/manpower stance on these issues when debating who would win. Biases should be left at home, which is why I am not going to post who I want to win, but rather who would win with their given technology. Speaking in a strictly ground war I would have to say IoM would get a minor victory. I don't really want to rehash what has already been said, but I agree with a great deal of it (on both sides, it's a tough choice in the end).
Yeah I would agree. The imperium has many regiments. That they can throw at them. not only that but we are talking about the imperium having titans, space marines, steel legions, and guardsmen. That means that they have all the weaponry they need to bring down the Empire. Not only that but we are talking frontal assualts and all out war. No Stealthy Jedi has will escape a thousand lasguns, no matter how good they are, EXCEPT IF IT IS STAR KILLER! Not only that but considering that the Empire is pumping men out a fast rate it takes time for them to deploy reinforcements. Not only that but The Imperium has batteries that have been known to take out battle barges. So the Reinforcements for the Empire would be swiftly taken out by anti-air forces. Not only that but the air war would be pretty devastating to both sides. We can not forget the Thunderbolts and their very fast movements. They are quick. And we can't forget Cobras of the Imperium. Which are almost as fast as a Eldar Vampire. So give or take the imperium has more powerful and shielded air vehicles.
DO NOT FORGET THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT!
But the empire on the other hand could beable to bring the imperium to its knees thanks to pure numbers. But facing a titian they would have trouble. But not that 45 AT-AT's won't solve!
The empire has Tie Fighters which they can build large amounts. And ever since they can fight in the atmosphere and can put up a pretty good fight and also be able to outmaneuver an Imperial Pilot. But only problem is that the Empire can't shot very well. I know they did that for Blockbuster hits but ok!
Anyway the Empire also has an advantage of pure numbers in which they all have a light focused weapon which is sorta like a lasgun. But I can't forget Dark Troopers.
Dark Troopers are not the equalivites of a Space Marine Not only that but the Imperium has better elite units that are rapidly deployed. I'm also talking about the Space Marines in fluff terms. In which they can take on hundreds of people by themselves.
The Empire has superior production in that they can build faster. True. But they have not improved on their Technology in the past 230,000 years. Not since the Old Republic. They are more Stylish compared to the Imperium. But Relatively speaking they are almost exactly the same.
But this is just a thought So don't tear at me for just showing points that are supported by films and books. And I have read all the New Republic Books! And the 40k books. I'm better at 40k lore more than star wars lore.
But the empire on the other hand could beable to bring the imperium to its knees thanks to pure numbers.
The other way around, actually.
Tell me, how many stormtroopers are there in the Empire?
Billions of Guardsmen are drafted every year from single hive planets just as a way of those planets paying their taxes. And there are quite a few of these hive planets.
I told you i'm rusty on Star Wars Lore. I'm from the Warhammer side of the family. The other side know everything about star wars. Except the one brainic that does is in Germany. -.-
Anyway thanks for the heads up. in my mind the Empire could quickly bring in forces. Compared to the imperium.
The fluff has described 250 million Guardsmen bbeing deployed as part of a planetary assault. As just a single wave in a somewhat unimportant subsector.
Melissia wrote:But the Imperium would bring in MORE forces.
The fluff has described 250 million Guardsmen bbeing deployed as part of a planetary assault. As just a single wave in a somewhat unimportant subsector.
Thats alot of lasguns...and meat for the meat grinder!
Anyway can anyone provide me with sources showing the SW are actually improving in terms of tech? it seems from the old republic trailers their weapons and building (no defense value whatsoever) remained the same after thousands of years...Plus Coruscant being the seat of the galaxy was so easily attacked by the sith empire en masse with no problem...and in the star wars revenge of the sith it looks so easy attacking it again after thousands of years since the old republic (no improvement after being attacked so many times?)...i dont see any advances in terms of defence against ships or armies intending to invade a SW planet
Asherian Command wrote:Yeah I have to agree. They just look shinier. But work exactly the same.
Actually, in many ways the new stuff is worse, because the design methodology under the Empire shifts from "super advanced badass stuff" to "easily mass produced and replaceable". I.e. WWII German vs. USSR.
Alpha plus psykers are on a completely different level than Jedi, even ones like Skywalker. Jedi can briefly mind-trick a handful of people. From Eisenhorn, we know psykers can mind-control entire city blocks of people into a murdering mob. A Sith can throw some lightning around, a psyker can open rifts in reality.
I'm a fan of the Jedi, but they are a precision smart-bomb to the alpha psyker's hydrogen bomb. I would say only Palpatine and Starkiller approach that level of sheer power (one with his force storm, the other with his force gripping a star destroyer into the ground), but that's about it.
Mn, I wasn't thinking of an alpha plus psyker. Most of those are nutjobs who cannot control their power. Alpha level, however, is still plenty powerful. Think about the Ork special character Weirdboy, who once turned an entire army into squigs. He's probably alpha level-- what's special about him is mostly that his head doesn't bang in a large enough waaagh!, but any weirdboy with that kind of durability would also be just as powerful.
Imagine, then, an army of stormtrooper-armored squigs, looking around confused at the squig in jedi robes.
Melissia wrote:Mn, I wasn't thinking of an alpha plus psyker. Most of those are nutjobs who cannot control their power. Alpha level, however, is still plenty powerful. Think about the Ork special character Weirdboy, who once turned an entire army into squigs. He's probably alpha level-- what's special about him is mostly that his head doesn't bang in a large enough waaagh!, but any weirdboy with that kind of durability would also be just as powerful.
Imagine, then, an army of stormtrooper-armored squigs, looking around confused at the squig in jedi robes.
Haha, whoops, I didn't mean to insert the plus.
An Alpha Plus, however, is a being of grotesque power. They are described in the 4th edition Rulebook as being able to "turn a man inside-out with a glance", "snap a Battle Titan in half with a flick of the wrist", and "a muttered syllable can turn an army upon itself in a frenzy of bloodlust". They are capable of destroying entire worlds - sometimes unintentionally.[.quote]
Melissia wrote:Mn, I wasn't thinking of an alpha plus psyker. Most of those are nutjobs who cannot control their power. Alpha level, however, is still plenty powerful. Think about the Ork special character Weirdboy, who once turned an entire army into squigs. He's probably alpha level-- what's special about him is mostly that his head doesn't bang in a large enough waaagh!, but any weirdboy with that kind of durability would also be just as powerful.
Imagine, then, an army of stormtrooper-armored squigs, looking around confused at the squig in jedi robes.
That would be pretty funny to see...the jedi will be like " Didn't see that coming "...can provide the source for the weirdboy turning an army into squigs, first time hearing this...
Well starkiller in the vid is shown to be a clone and clones can be made for mass production...now lets see starkiller strength is his almost perfect light saber mastery, agile movement combine with the force, his control of the force e.g repulse, lightning...now imagine that Darth Vader unleashed thousands of starkillers clones unto an imperial world...that would be a sight to behold...no need for mass invasion of clones and ships just this few thousand as one of them is an army in their own right, being able to bring down ships, destroy factories single handed, take on armies many times more and still look cool...
I know the IoM will win in the end with countless pyskers to counter...but imagine the carnage of the fighting that would occur...even space marines will know fear...and im just stating this for the cool factor of imagination...
The Hammer wrote:Well starkiller in the vid is shown to be a clone and clones can be made for mass production...now lets see starkiller strength is his almost perfect light saber mastery, agile movement combine with the force, his control of the force e.g repulse, lightning...now imagine that Darth Vader unleashed thousands of starkillers clones unto an imperial world...that would be a sight to behold...no need for mass invasion of clones and ships just this few thousand as one of them is an army in their own right, being able to bring down ships, destroy factories single handed, take on armies many times more and still look cool...
I know the IoM will win in the end with countless pyskers to counter...but imagine the carnage of the fighting that would occur...even space marines will know fear...and im just stating this for the cool factor of imagination...
Eh, I'm not buying this quite yet until the game is out and I've played through it. You can't clone a skill-set (just the level of force sensitivity), which is why all the clone troopers go through very rigorous training once they finish incubating.
The Hammer wrote:Well starkiller in the vid is shown to be a clone and clones can be made for mass production...now lets see starkiller strength is his almost perfect light saber mastery, agile movement combine with the force, his control of the force e.g repulse, lightning...now imagine that Darth Vader unleashed thousands of starkillers clones unto an imperial world...that would be a sight to behold...no need for mass invasion of clones and ships just this few thousand as one of them is an army in their own right, being able to bring down ships, destroy factories single handed, take on armies many times more and still look cool...
I know the IoM will win in the end with countless pyskers to counter...but imagine the carnage of the fighting that would occur...even space marines will know fear...and im just stating this for the cool factor of imagination...
Eh, I'm not buying this quite yet until the game is out and I've played through it. You can't clone a skill-set (just the level of force sensitivity), which is why all the clone troopers go through very rigorous training once they finish incubating.
You can also force that skill-set into someone brain. Force them to learn it. The Space Marines do it to their initiates to teach them history and tactics, etc.
The only step after that is actually training your muscle memory into implementing the things you learned.
You can't really force someone to learn something that way . Sure, it might make teaching EASIER somehow, but you can't really replicate personal experience.
The Hammer wrote:Well starkiller in the vid is shown to be a clone and clones can be made for mass production...now lets see starkiller strength is his almost perfect light saber mastery, agile movement combine with the force, his control of the force e.g repulse, lightning...now imagine that Darth Vader unleashed thousands of starkillers clones unto an imperial world...that would be a sight to behold...no need for mass invasion of clones and ships just this few thousand as one of them is an army in their own right, being able to bring down ships, destroy factories single handed, take on armies many times more and still look cool...
I know the IoM will win in the end with countless pyskers to counter...but imagine the carnage of the fighting that would occur...even space marines will know fear...and im just stating this for the cool factor of imagination...
Eh, I'm not buying this quite yet until the game is out and I've played through it. You can't clone a skill-set (just the level of force sensitivity), which is why all the clone troopers go through very rigorous training once they finish incubating.
Incorrect, flash learning without the training was prevalent only the Kamino clones had the rigorous training.
It seems a major problem is erupting here. You all seem to think that force powers=warp powers. They do not.
Psykers rely on the ever shifting waves of the immaterial realm also known as the Great Ocean to unleash enormously powerful "spells" (like lightning, and fire, and boiling blood and disassembling peoples molecules, or exploding things,among others). These powers are seemingly easy to counter, as the sisters of silence's presence can easily disable them. The Ordo ereticus in general has several ways to counter psykers.
The Force is a much more potent weapon. Users rely on their own personal will-power to unleash spectacular shows of arial movement,blah-blah-blah. You all know what the force does. The force cannot be countered(to my knowledge).
I don't think that either side would anticipate the other's "psychic powers", and they would both suffer lots of casualties. However, due to the warp's chaotic nature, a psyker could easily fail to "make his psykic test" and several daemons would spew forth from the warp,whih would be awesome!
That's why they have warding. Primaris Psykers are powerful, skilled in controlling their powers, AND protected from the perils of the warp. Indeed, the process of becoming a Primaris Psyker involves surgery where they open the psyker's head up and inscribe protective wards on the inside of his skull, and then he (or she really) wears protective robes and garments as well.
Melissia wrote:That's why they have warding. Primaris Psykers are powerful, skilled in controlling their powers, AND protected from the perils of the warp. Indeed, the process of becoming a Primaris Psyker involves surgery where they open the psyker's head up and inscribe protective wards on the inside of his skull, and then he (or she really) wears protective robes and garments as well.
Melissia wrote:That's why they have warding. Primaris Psykers are powerful, skilled in controlling their powers, AND protected from the perils of the warp. Indeed, the process of becoming a Primaris Psyker involves surgery where they open the psyker's head up and inscribe protective wards on the inside of his skull, and then he (or she really) wears protective robes and garments as well.
Win. Counter measure one shot. Also Psykers would be more powerful. They can destroy anything. Read all the books about the space marines. We forgot them. They have psykers and they are incredibly strong.
If GE had even one starkiller, they could win any war he enters. Just make the transport ships crash into eachother then fire force repulse into a block of a million guardsmen. Alternatively, run around zip-zipping everyone with a lightsaber.
Without enough powerful force users, it would be a close call.
Yeah, psyker powers aren' as limited as what's in the codexes. They can really do anything their imaginations can fathom.
"hey, that's an ugly picture of me in the yearbook, lemme just burn that out...*burns*. Awesome."
warhammer for sure, as said above, even if a psyker messes up, daemons will appear, and who would win then?
(Muahahahahahaha!)
anyways.. I would have to think that jedi could not stop massed fire power, and or multiple psychic assaults, which the imperium would do if they figured out it works.
And yes, starkiller can bring down a starship, but alpha level psykers can turn armies inside out with a single mutter (or was it glance? 4th edition core rule book)
Yeah, psyker powers aren' as limited as what's in the codexes. They can really do anything their imaginations can fathom.
"hey, that's an ugly picture of me in the yearbook, lemme just burn that out...*burns*. Awesome."
Probably the limits of space marine imagination.
I don't think Space Marines are very imaginative outside of battle. Even in battle many of them aren't (follow the codex astartes!).
Also, the overwhelming majority of psykers in the Imperium are human, not astartes.
Yeah, psyker powers aren' as limited as what's in the codexes. They can really do anything their imaginations can fathom.
"hey, that's an ugly picture of me in the yearbook, lemme just burn that out...*burns*. Awesome."
Probably the limits of space marine imagination.
Really? "Anything your imagination can fathom" and you stop at yearbook pictures?
Melissia wrote:Dude, I lost all faith in Star Wars the moment I first saw Jar-Jar Binks first open his mouth.
lol... it's all his fault the empire came into being as he is the one who passed the approal of the clone's threw then senate
Hahahaha! I forgot about that!
you, Jar Jar Binks!!! YOU!!!!!!!!
But anyways, back on topic. I believe that if the Imperium was Pre-Heresy, there would be no question of victory for them. Pre-Heresy, the Imperium was completely united, had much more technology that is now lost, all twenty legions of Space Marines instead of just nine being broken into little Chapters, all the Primarchs (HUGE advantage right there), and the Emperor not being a rotting corpse on the Golden Toilet (I mean Throne ). They also had no lost Titan Legions, no lost Imperial Army regiments, many more worlds (which equals more people, more in their armouries, and more soldiers), and more.
However, post-Heresy, I would probably say the fight would be about equal.
But if it WASN'T the Galactic Empire, instead it being..... I don't know, the Sith Empire instead or even the Old Republic (with clone army of course), I would probably say them. Sith Empire because they had hundreds (maybe thousands) of Sith and Dark Jedi (Yes, they are different. PM me if you want to debate about that), better soldiers (seriously, Sith soldiers vs. Storm Troopers..... not even a fair fight. Sith ftw), better technology, and (if you want to include KOTOR storyline) the Star Forge. Old Republic because of all the Jedi, the Fett-clones were pretty much Mandalorians at heart and they were all born soldiers (combine that, you have the ultimate soldier), technology was focused more on quality than quantity, and they were able to take out armies three times their size (but then again, they really only fought droids so.... who knows how they would do against Guardsmen or Astartes).
It really all depends on timeline for each universe, how the war is being fought, who is leading them, etc.
Also, I have been reading a lot about how 40k Titans seem to be able to never be defeated by the Empire. The OP said there was no space battles in this, only ground. If that were the case, then I believe the Titans would not be stopped. However, if you throw in space battles as well, all it would take to rip apart that Titan is one orbital bombardment by an Imperial Star Destroyer with its turbolasers. Also, if the Empire has air superiority, they could just do strafing runs with TIE bombers and take it down (probably a little slowly, but eventually it would fall).
Once again, it all depends on the circumstances. Pre- or Post- Heresy? Which government is in charge of the Star Wars Galaxy at the time? How is the war being fought? Who is fighting? Who is leading? Does either army have superiority on one of the fronts or is it equal? Who's attacking and who's defending? The list goes on and on.
I say, however you want the battle to end is how it will end. Just use your imagination.
Semi- off topic: I don't know when, but I will be eventually posting a story on here of this very idea. A war between the Imperium of Man and the Galactic Empire. It will take place in the star wars galaxy, Imperium is pre-heresy, but there is no Rebellion so the Empire is at its strongest. yes, I'm going against...... I'll say all the fluff of both storylines. But I think it could be fun. So look out for my story (if you want) in the Dakka Fiction forum.
also everyone who keeps saying the imperium could just do exterminus on the planet i say this: The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force.
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:also everyone who keeps saying the imperium could just do exterminus on the planet i say this: The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force.
Can you please explain the logic behind that statement?
Alright its freaking 2am here because I had to stay up and read the entire damn thread lol I think theres just one clenching argument to be hammered home:
Any way you look at it, it all comes down to numbers. Even if the GE has better technology (which is still debatable- lasguns v blasters, titans v AT ATs, thick armor v shields, etc), you can't compete with the IoMs numbers.
TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of guardsmen, with BILLIONS recruited from single planets every year, are out defending the imperium, ready to be called upon to throw themselves at the xenos threat.
I point to real life battles such as stalingrad and the entire eastern front of WW2. Germany had FAR superior machine guns, tanks, aircraft, and even just better trained soldiers. One on one the russians were no match for them- but they adapted to their strengths and literally just threw comrades into the german lines until they broke.
Technology is NEVER a substitute for a good old fashioned horde.
Despite their cloning (which seems to even be debatable in its legality) the GE wouldn't be able to catch up to the Imperiums wartime stock of men and would simply be overwhelmed, plain and simple.
Yeah, psyker powers aren' as limited as what's in the codexes. They can really do anything their imaginations can fathom.
"hey, that's an ugly picture of me in the yearbook, lemme just burn that out...*burns*. Awesome."
Probably the limits of space marine imagination.
Really? "Anything your imagination can fathom" and you stop at yearbook pictures?
well, yeah, or fix fake ray-ban sunglasses.
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Cantus wrote:Alright its freaking 2am here because I had to stay up and read the entire damn thread lol I think theres just one clenching argument to be hammered home:
Any way you look at it, it all comes down to numbers. Even if the GE has better technology (which is still debatable- lasguns v blasters, titans v AT ATs, thick armor v shields, etc), you can't compete with the IoMs numbers.
TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of guardsmen, with BILLIONS recruited from single planets every year, are out defending the imperium, ready to be called upon to throw themselves at the xenos threat.
I point to real life battles such as stalingrad and the entire eastern front of WW2. Germany had FAR superior machine guns, tanks, aircraft, and even just better trained soldiers. One on one the russians were no match for them- but they adapted to their strengths and literally just threw comrades into the german lines until they broke.
Technology is NEVER a substitute for a good old fashioned horde.
Despite their cloning (which seems to even be debatable in its legality) the GE wouldn't be able to catch up to the Imperiums wartime stock of men and would simply be overwhelmed, plain and simple.
Eh, this is false. They have less than 100 billion guardsmen. Not to mention they never use more than a couple million in battles. But still, I see your point and I agree wholeheartedly.
ALSO: I've watched that video at least Ive times in the last minute. I have no idea why.
One point that seems to have been completely ignored is that the Imperium has far more than the Space Marines, IG, Fleet and Adeptus Mecanicus at its disposal. Consider, for example, the Death Cult Assassins, who's agility is likely similar to that of a Jedi/Sith/Emperor's Hand etc. Given the equipment they have, I think that roughly three or four of them would be able to take down most individual force-users.
I think a number of arguments here could be settled by a simple comparison of abilities. I think to start that Stormtroopers should have the same profile as Imperial Guardsmen but with an armor save of 4+ rather than 5+ . Their weapons, however, would be different (all have tac-knives, which count as an extra close combat weapon). A typical pistol (wielded by imperial officers) would have a profile like this:
Range 12" S-4 AP-5 Pistol
For a blaster:
Range 24" S-4 AP-5 Assault 1
a blaster rifle (basically a blaster with an expanded magazine and stock):
Range "30 S-4 AP-5 Assault 2. "Jams" (does not fire) for both shots on a roll of a 1 for either
A Lightsaber would probably be a power weapon with the rending special rule, with a typical wielder having this profile:
WSBS S T I A W Ld. Sv.
Force User: 5 3 3 3 5 3 1 9 5+ (invulnerable)
Special Rules: Immune to Instant Death, "Force"
May Take Any of the Following Force Powers Based on Alignment (I'll just post the dark side for now):
Dark Side Powers
Force Choke (shooting): Always wounds on a 4+, Ignores Armor Saves
Force Lighting (shooting, template): S-3, AP-5
Force Jump (shooting/assault): Allows the Unit to assault up to 3" after running
Force Push (shooting, blast, range 6 inches, no scatter): All units hit are pushed back D3 and go to ground on a 4+ (no armor/invulnerable saves allowed against this attack; does not affect monsters)
Now for Imperial Officers:
WS: 3 BS: 4 S: 3 T:3 I:3 A: 1 Ld: 9 Sv: 4+
Equipment: Blaster Pistol, Tac-Knife
Special Rules: Begin attached to a squad, but act as independent characters if the rest of the squad is destroyed.
I hope these profiles help to offer some concrete comparisons.
This thread should've been nipped in the bud early on and locked. Based on the movies, anyone can roll over the ground forces of the Galactic Empire. Even if you toss in the EU crap and the Mary Sue Jedi, you can't change the fact that the focus of Star Wars IS NOT realistic, organized, or remotely competent ground forces.
, except their method of blowing everything up just tosses the fungal spores into space).
. 
Don't know what Lucas was thinking with those movies.
of a fight to see