It might be my imagination and the blurry photo but I'm not sure they don't have mandiblasters. I see, something, towards the bottom of some of their helms, around the neck line in the blown up version.
Also, I'm curious where these blurry photo's come from and why they are always so uniformly blurry. Camera phone stealth picturing?
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well not sure about your pricing but I thought that GW were supposed to be moving more into plastics.
So it is a tad surprising that they may be metal.
It's not so much that they're "moving more into plastics", but that they're moving away from hybrid metal/plastic kits. Metal kits are pretty much going to be staying, as they're the best way to do special characters and one-off units that you won't see too many of.
However:
They're moving more into plastics for Warhammer Fantasy by all accounts. Simply because of the size of units and the potential for huge ranked units.
Saldiven wrote:This might seem a little off topic, but I've been waiting for this release for a long time.
When the pre-order stuff is finally available, what is the quickest method of pre-ordering, as far as how long it takes to receive the product? Would that be ordering directly from the GW web site, or ordering through a local store? Does it make any real difference?
Sadly, it is from the GW site. I have read several stories over the years of pre-orders arriving 2 or 3 days early.
Would that be ordering directly from the GW web site, or ordering through a local store? Does it make any real difference?
Virtually every Advance Order I have done from the GW web store this year has arrived 2 days before release date and that's quite a few. That said, they aren't perfect and occasionally things arrive after release date, but in general they are quite reliable. Example, I had my Slaanesh Daemon Prince conversion built 2 days before most people even had the model.
Saldiven wrote:This might seem a little off topic, but I've been waiting for this release for a long time.
When the pre-order stuff is finally available, what is the quickest method of pre-ordering, as far as how long it takes to receive the product? Would that be ordering directly from the GW web site, or ordering through a local store? Does it make any real difference?
Sadly, it is from the GW site. I have read several stories over the years of pre-orders arriving 2 or 3 days early.
This.
It ends up being quicker pre-ordering from GW because they ship out preorders at the same time as they fill the orders that stores place.
Saldiven wrote:This might seem a little off topic, but I've been waiting for this release for a long time.
When the pre-order stuff is finally available, what is the quickest method of pre-ordering, as far as how long it takes to receive the product? Would that be ordering directly from the GW web site, or ordering through a local store? Does it make any real difference?
Sadly, it is from the GW site. I have read several stories over the years of pre-orders arriving 2 or 3 days early.
This.
It ends up being quicker pre-ordering from GW because they ship out preorders at the same time as they fill the orders that stores place.
Thanks.
I plan on throwing a good bit of money to my FLGS for the new models (my first major GW purchase since I built my C:CSM Alpha Legion about five years ago), but I'm really hot to get my hands on the new CodexE as soon as I can.
Warning. If you order only the codex from GW, they're likely to send it media mail, which is extra-slow. Did that with a release earlier this year and got my codex a few days after the release.
If you mix the codex in with some minis, it won't qualify for media mail and you should be good to go.
Personally, I'm not fond of the new Incubi Models. Something about the Helmets and Blades. Blades don't look bad, just don't fit my current mental conception of Incubi. The helmets look like they belong on Chaos Warriors or Chaos Storm Troopers, not Dark Eldar troops.
Thinking I might order Incubi from Maelstrom, but the problem there is I don't want to shell out $60 for 10 Models for a Codex I haven't even seen the rules for yet (plus, I still need to set aside money for my Orks too).
Red Corsair wrote:I love them, I liked the old ones for what they were but none of them were the right scale and their waists were super thin.... I think with clearer pics they will have a more samurai w/ Oni death mask feel then chaos feel. I am personally hoping for Ar-ha or however its spelled to be their only phoenix lord and founder of the incubi.
Scottywan82 wrote:Yeah, having Ahra, the Father of Scorpions as a special character would be sick. Incubi count as troops? Please please?
I'd settle for Incubi are scoring units.
If DE get Arhra, I'm gonna faint
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ShineBoss wrote:It might be my imagination and the blurry photo but I'm not sure they don't have mandiblasters. I see, something, towards the bottom of some of their helms, around the neck line in the blown up version.
That stands to reason, since Incubi are supposedly the children of Arhra, the Father of Scorpions, the Fallen Phoenix.
Hulksmash wrote:It looks like some of the swords have an open handgrip up the blade to make it almost like that damn klingon style weapon when they want to. I'm really excited about these models actually...very excited....
I noticed that too, although from what I can tell all the models have a grip higher up on the blade, it's just hard to tell from the pics. This actually makes more sense cause those blades would look a bit too long otherwise.
Overall, I love the models from what I can see. The armor looks great, the blades are cool, and a much better idea than halberds, IMO. While most people dislike the horns, I think they look good with the masks. Much better than the scorpion helm on the old models.
I'm so ready for Saturday and more pictures of these and pics the rest of the range. I said previously all I needed was one pic to give a clue of the design direction for me to be onboard. These however, have exceeded my expectations, and that's from a blurry pic, although after close examination you can make out a good deal more than some people seem to think/notice.
sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Gah why must you say such horrible things? Helmet pistols are dumb..
There is much humor here, when compared to all the other things one could apply this statement to in 40K.
sum1thtdiesalot wrote:What makes you think that the incubi will still have Tormentor Helms?
Depends on fluff, really. Right now, it looks like that's out the window with the old molds, so those might be going with it. One of the reasons it might be kept, however, is that it was part of the "iconic" wargear pieces of an Incubi, like a Storm Bolter and Chain Fist for a Terminator a few editions back.
Personally the only cool part about the tormentor helm was the bonus attack even with a two handed weapon since the splinter pistol was crap....WAS crap, now that it is poison i would welcome the pistols on their hats but they probably just gave them 2 base attacks and no gun so they wouldn't be broken..... but who knows...
ShineBoss wrote:
Also, I'm curious where these blurry photo's come from and why they are always so uniformly blurry. Camera phone stealth picturing?
Apparently the photos where taken and uploaded via an iphone, including the GPS date, so location is somewhere in france.
On the Topic. I really love them. The great swords/blades that would just rip people apart. My guess is they ignore everything, even the toughness. They just kill outright if you hit, that would be funny.
I have to say the horns bothert my a bit, but after reading some possible explanations and after looking back again at their f****** swords i totally am fine with them XD
After reading on some forums i have pict up, dont know where, that the wych succubus will have a mask, just as the warlocks of the pathetic eldar have, and that they will switch from drugs to psychic powers. can anyone confirm that?
Archonate wrote:My only fear is that this picture is actually in full focus, and the models are just very blurry by design.
Let's feed this into the rumour-generator telephone game and a few cycles later we'll hear someone announcing they heard from Archonate that all Incubi will get shadow fields!
ShineBoss wrote:
Also, I'm curious where these blurry photo's come from and why they are always so uniformly blurry. Camera phone stealth picturing?
Apparently the photos where taken and uploaded via an iphone, including the GPS date,
Me, I'm now wondering what GW's reaction will be to this blatant breach of their oh-so-super-secret policy. Will Jes and GW attempt to "punish" the players?
It's too late to yank this release, revise it or postpone it due to the leak. They've already launched their official marketing for it and the White Dwarf with the advert in it plus the following one with the actual preview are already printed given the lead times on that. The actual Dark Eldar products have already been produced and packaged and distribution planned as well. At this point, they pretty much have to endure the leaks and forge ahead with the marketing and release dates they've already planned, to do otherwise would entail significant losses.
Frankly, they've done quite well controlling leaks at this point. Other than the early rumors on the now fact the DE were coming this year, they've pretty much kept everything about it tightly out of sight until this one little blurry photo just weeks before actual release. Not bad for a company that just 3 years ago had their entire release schedule for a full year leaked out.
Surprisingly often, companies will "leak" their own "carefully guarded secrets" in order to build the hype about an up-and-coming product.
For all we know, GW were the ones who leaked that photo.
I say this because of the quality of the photo - I'd imagine anyone attempting to take an actual genuine photo with their iPhone would take a moment to actually let the lens focus, yeah?
The fact that it's only one page - not even, actually, only a portion of one page - also screams "intentional leak."
I woudln't blame them for 'leaking' stuff. It keeps up their strong look, as they've kept it all under their hats for so long. And yet lets people go "Ooh the new Dark Eldar look interesting, I'm going to pay more attention to what's going on now."
Not that everyone wasn't paying attention anyway ofcourse =p
The only way to deal with this is by pre-ordering a the codex and a box of warriors. Then, no matter how many lists you write, swear not to buy another box until the first one is completely painted and assembled.
Yeah, this worked for me re: new SW. Poor little guys still have the shrink wrap on. But on the plus side, I haven't bought any more of them since. The FW vendread sorely tempts me to . . . NO! NO! The power of the Emperor compells you! Just breathe, just breathe . . .
Right, well, my point is that you have to exercise a little self control by excerising a little self-indulgence.
Plus, there's always the possibility that the line will be fugly.
On Warseer they're white knighting Jes to a ridiculous extent on this. They've actually tracked the guy's iPhone to somewhere in France and want to call the police on him.
"Officer, this guy took pictures of tiny plastic spacemen! Arrest him!"
On Warseer they're white knighting Jes to a ridiculous extent on this. They've actually tracked the guy's iPhone to somewhere in France and want to call the police on him.
"Officer, this guy took pictures of tiny plastic spacemen! Arrest him!"
altough it's funny, let's stay on topic here. don't want this thread to be closed too.
Brother SRM wrote:On Warseer they're white knighting Jes to a ridiculous extent on this. They've actually tracked the guy's iPhone to somewhere in France and want to call the police on him.
"Officer, this guy took pictures of tiny plastic spacemen! Arrest him!"
Call the police and have him charged with... what exactly?
Unless he stole the codex, he didn't break any laws.
If he's employed by GW, he probably signed a nondisclosure agreement of some sort, and may lose his job, but certainly won't be arrested for it.
Brother SRM wrote:On Warseer they're white knighting Jes to a ridiculous extent on this. They've actually tracked the guy's iPhone to somewhere in France and want to call the police on him.
"Officer, this guy took pictures of tiny plastic spacemen! Arrest him!"
Call the police and have him charged with... what exactly?
Unless he stole the codex, he didn't break any laws.
If he's employed by GW, he probably signed a nondisclosure agreement of some sort, and may lose his job, but certainly won't be arrested for it.
Given that he got a photo of the French codex(apparently), it's more likely that he's employed by a translation agency.
In which case, aside from breaking a nondisclosure agreement, he also published copywritten material without permission.
So yeah. Depending on where, it's possible he'll be arrested.
Kanluwen wrote:Given that he got a photo of the French codex(apparently), it's more likely that he's employed by a translation agency.
In which case, aside from breaking a nondisclosure agreement, he also published copywritten material without permission.
So yeah. Depending on where, it's possible he'll be arrested.
I honestly have no idea how French copyright laws work, but I do know that different countries' copyright laws interacting often causes legal snarls so ridiculous that no one is ever prosecuted.
Kanluwen wrote:Given that he got a photo of the French codex(apparently), it's more likely that he's employed by a translation agency.
In which case, aside from breaking a nondisclosure agreement, he also published copywritten material without permission.
So yeah. Depending on where, it's possible he'll be arrested.
I honestly have no idea how French copyright laws work, but I do know that different countries' copyright laws interacting often causes legal snarls so ridiculous that no one is ever prosecuted.
From what I have been able to research online, very few countries have copyright laws so stringent that merely posting a single picture from a single page of a document like White Dwarf Magazine would be sufficient for criminal action including arrest and jail time. It might quite well qualify for civil action, though, including fines and/or damages.
It won't affect (not effect) the release and I already stated why. As for Jes Goodwin being angry, maybe so, but he's not the marketing department and they've already determined the release schedule, printed the promotions and the White Dwarf, etc. Again, it's too late for an all out change to this release. If the Codex is due out in November it's been printed already too. Warhammer stories, models and rules play out a fantasy, selling models and books is a business and it doesn't run on magic, hand gestures or whimsical last minute changes.
Someone on warseer e-stalked the guy who took the phone picture of the incubi with the intent of getting him arrested, and you guys start talking about copyright law. I think your missing the point.......
Scottywan82 wrote:I think I'm confused. Why do we care who took the picture?
Of course we care Scotty! We have to care!!! That man took a picture and you... you... you can't take pictures because... umm... because you just can't, ok???
Yeah it is the e-stalker we should be really worried about. Hunting down those that want to pre-empt games workshops media machine. We don't need that. Just makes all those on BOLS look like GW homies.
As for Jes Goodwin being angry, it is only one very blury pic, don't think he can be too unhappy about that.
ceorron wrote:Yeah it is the e-stalker we should be really worried about. Hunting down those that want to pre-empt games workshops media machine. We don't need that. Just makes all those on BOLS look like GW homies.
As for Jes Goodwin being angry, it is only one very blury pic, don't think he can be too unhappy about that.
Actually, that's what made him angry as hell about the Harlequins.
He didn't want the stuff leaked, especially if it's going to be some half-arsed blurry cameraphone pic.
Doesn't anyone else find this farcical?
The cameraman was Brian Rix who will step out of a wardrobe, sporting spotty boxers shorts, trousers around his ankles.
Look at the frothing response from the starved masses just ONE blurry picture has created. Do they need any other proof that DE have a very good shot at doing well? If this pic is any indication of the overall quality of the line, and the codex is competitive/borderline broken, they will do just fine.
BrassScorpion wrote:It won't affect (not effect) the release and I already stated why.
Sigh. Edited my post.
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Skarboy wrote:Look at the frothing response from the starved masses just ONE blurry picture has created. Do they need any other proof that DE have a very good shot at doing well?
If we're honest with ourselves, we should note that the contributors here have been the same people throughout not only most of this thread but most of all of the threads on this topic. I do think DE will do well but it's no Marines release.
Kanluwen wrote:
Given that he got a photo of the French codex(apparently), it's more likely that he's employed by a translation agency.
That's the French Codex? I guess his phone could be in black/white mode, but I don't remember the last time I saw models in a Codex in black and white.
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Kanluwen wrote:
He didn't want the stuff leaked, especially if it's going to be some half-arsed blurry cameraphone pic.
Skarboy wrote:Look at the frothing response from the starved masses just ONE blurry picture has created. Do they need any other proof that DE have a very good shot at doing well?
If we're honest with ourselves, we should note that the contributors here have been the same people throughout not only most of this thread but most of all of the threads on this topic. I do think DE will do well but it's no Marines release.
Contributors doesn't necessarily mean they're going to actually buy anything, does it?
puma713 wrote:That's the French Codex? I guess his phone could be in black/white mode, but I don't remember the last time I saw models in a Codex in black and white.
You are aware that it could have been an early mock-up, or just a placeholder page before the color photos arrived to be put into the finalized Codex, or any number of things yeah?
Yeah, internet promises don't mean a lot.
Baring Jes subcontracting Morley to sculpt all his faces, or really terrible rules, I'd expect them to be a solid seller for GW.
I'm not sure how the 40k armies rank sales-wise though, I'd assume something like Marines by a mile followed by IG, then everything else pretty close with maybe Tau and definitely Necrons bringing up the rear.
It looks like it's ringbound, so it's probably a proof of some kind.
Tau have been a consistent good seller since their last revision. Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales. Space Marines, the regular kind, account for roughly 50% of all 40K model sales.
puma713 wrote:That's the French Codex? I guess his phone could be in black/white mode, but I don't remember the last time I saw models in a Codex in black and white.
You are aware that it could have been an early mock-up, or just a placeholder page before the color photos arrived to be put into the finalized Codex, or any number of things yeah?
Exactly. That was the point of the post. You said that it was the French Codex (apparently) - meaning it is apparent that it was the French codex when there is nothing to support that rationale whatsoever. If it had been a color picture, then there would have been some support.
And to quote you:
"You are aware that it could have been. . . .any number of things yeah?"
For what it's worth, I will be putting any current project on hold to start a DE army. One, because it's been in the planning stages for the last six months, and two, because all I've been waiting for is a new model range (which would be a product of a new codex).
BrassScorpion wrote: Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales.
Really? That's interesting, especially with the amount of Chaos armies I face. Guess because people have had their Chaos armies for forever and have had nothing really new to buy from the range (save the terminator lord/sorceror).
Exactly. That was the point of the post. You said that it was the French Codex (apparently) - meaning it is apparent that it was the French codex when there is nothing to support that rationale whatsoever.
Other than it being...in french you mean? Obviously it might not be the codex, it could be a translation proof for white dwarf, or a catalogue.
puma713 wrote:That's the French Codex? I guess his phone could be in black/white mode, but I don't remember the last time I saw models in a Codex in black and white.
You are aware that it could have been an early mock-up, or just a placeholder page before the color photos arrived to be put into the finalized Codex, or any number of things yeah?
Exactly. That was the point of the post. You said that it was the French Codex (apparently) - meaning it is apparent that it was the French codex when there is nothing to support that rationale whatsoever. If it had been a color picture, then there would have been some support.
And to quote you:
"You are aware that it could have been. . . .any number of things yeah?"
You do know that the translators don't actually create the pictures for the Codices, right?
There's no reason for them to get full color photos, just to make a translated copy to publish.
Also:
The borders on the page corners isn't something you'll see in White Dwarf. There would be a "Warhammer 40,000" in the middle of the bar on the top border.
Codices are pretty much the only time they do unique borders on pages.
Gentlemen, "please, let's not bicker and argue over who killed whom" (yes, it's a Monty Python quote), it matters not a Space Wolf's whisker where the photos came from, nor is arguing endlessly over the possible sources providing anyone with any useful information.
Now wasn't the topic the Dark Eldar release, not the source of the blurry photo?
If this is a picture from the codex, it is not the original.
It is GBC bound on the left hand side, which would be correct, but the design at the top is going the wrong way. the only way for this to happen is if they:
a. Cut the spine off the book, and gbc bound it backwards...
or
B. Printed it single sided from a pdf or similar document, and bound it on the right hand side. 1/2 the pages would be bound on the opposite side of which they were intended if this is the case.
Seeing as how it is black/white, along with the fact it is bound either incorrectly or single sided, it sure looks like a PDF copy of the codex.
Edit- sorry, posted before people asked not to post on this...
Seriously....people beg for leaked photos....get leaked photos....complain that said photos were released.... I find this so damn funny!
Personally I am tired of the whole cloak and dagger when it comes to a JG release, me thinks his ego grew three sizes two big in recent years, the guy is good don't get me wrong, but he isn't that good considering he had twelve years to work on this project, he better have rethought how minis work
Manchu wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we should note that the contributors here have been the same people throughout not only most of this thread but most of all of the threads on this topic. I do think DE will do well but it's no Marines release.
Certainly. Grain of salt taken and NOTHING matches the Space Marine releases. They are the flagship of the entire company; nothing comes close. But for 40K to thrive, for GW to thrive, you need to have successful contemporaries for the Space Marines. That means successful offshoot branches (Space Wolves, Blood Angels, etc.) and it also means making the Xenos groups competitive, both in aesthetic and gameplay. What creates more demand than an escalating arms race? For the DE, you want a line that will pull in FotM players as well as draw back the DE players who feel abandoned, draw in the DE players to replace their old models, draw in those who always wanted DE but hated the models and/or rules, draw in the Dark Elf players into 40K, and so forth. The Dark Eldar goal is not to surpass Space Marines (maybe temporarily for the pre-order rush of sales), but to surpass Orks, Tyranids, Craftworld Eldar, Imperial Guard, etc. as the non-Marine army of choice. Can they get there? I doubt it, but that doesn't mean they can't be very competitive, both sales-wise and codex-wise, enough to justify the effort put into their re-release. Frankly, their success will, in some part, help dictate the level of effort put into Necrons, Tau, Chaos, Sisters of Battle, etc. in the future, so we should all be hoping they do well and bring those other non-SM armies with them.
Skarboy wrote:
Frankly, their success will, in some part, help dictate the level of effort put into Necrons, Tau, Chaos, Sisters of Battle, etc. in the future, so we should all be hoping they do well and bring those other non-SM armies with them.
I agree with this in some part, but wouldn't you agree that even codices outside of Marines have a heirarchy within their market? To say that the Dark Eldar release will affect a future Chaos release I think is a bit exaggerated. Chaos, Orks, Eldar - these races have always been a part of the 40K universe, even since the early times. A Chaos release (one of the basic pillars of the 40K universe) shouldn't be affected by a niche army release. Just like you wouldn't expect a Blood Angel release to be directly influenced with how well Tau do. If the Dark Eldar line doesn't do as well as they hope, I just don't think it will influence whether or not they move forward with certain Chaos ideas. They may decide to keep some in metal and not move to plastic, but other than that, I don't think they'll lose any fervor for those core, fundamental races of 40K.
I know where you're coming from and I think you're right about Tau, Necrons, Sisters and GK, but I'm not sure much more can be gleaned from the success of the DE launch than the success of the DE.
puma713 wrote:I agree with this in some part, but wouldn't you agree that even codices outside of Marines have a heirarchy within their market? To say that the Dark Eldar release will affect a future Chaos release I think is a bit exaggerated. Chaos, Orks, Eldar - these races have always been a part of the 40K universe, even since the early times. A Chaos release (one of the basic pillars of the 40K universe) shouldn't be affected by a niche army release. Just like you wouldn't expect a Blood Angel release to be directly influenced with how well Tau do. If the Dark Eldar line doesn't do as well as they hope, I just don't think it will influence whether or not they move forward with certain Chaos ideas. They may decide to keep some in metal and not move to plastic, but other than that, I don't think they'll lose any fervor for those core, fundamental races of 40K.
I know where you're coming from and I think you're right about Tau, Necrons, Sisters and GK, but I'm not sure much more can be gleaned from the success of the DE launch than the success of the DE.
Sure, there's a hierarchy (and for the record, I consider all Marine chapters to be lumped together because sales go up for all Marine stuff when Space Wolves, Blood Angels, etc. get released). IMHO, IG/CSM are probably at the top; Orks, Eldar, and Tyranids in the middle; and the rest in a lump (DE, Necrons, Tau, Chaos Daemons, Daemon Hunters, Sisters/Witch Hunters). They fluxuate slightly with codex and model releases. Those armies in the top 5 are pretty much immune to too much influence, but conversely, they might have peaked in popularity. It's highly doubtful that any of them could be stripped and redone as drastically as the DE (though it could be said that the 3rd edition remake of the orks has turned them from a relatively unpopular army into a relatively popular one, similar to what the DE might be able to accomplish). But the other armies in that group COULD. That's where the success/failure of the DE will determine (somewhat) the level of effort put into the other armies. If the DE can make the shift from the bottom/niche tier and into that upper tier of consistent non-Marine armies, that perhaps opens the door for Necrons, Tau, and others to follow, or at least alerts GW to the possibility of such movement.
I know where you're coming from and I think you're right about Tau, Necrons, Sisters and GK, but I'm not sure much more can be gleaned from the success of the DE launch than the success of the DE.
Sure, there's a hierarchy (and for the record, I consider all Marine chapters to be lumped together because sales go up for all Marine stuff when Space Wolves, Blood Angels, etc. get released). IMHO, IG/CSM are probably at the top; Orks, Eldar, and Tyranids in the middle; and the rest in a lump (DE, Necrons, Tau, Chaos Daemons, Daemon Hunters, Sisters/Witch Hunters). They fluxuate slightly with codex and model releases. Those armies in the top 5 are pretty much immune to too much influence, but conversely, they might have peaked in popularity. It's highly doubtful that any of them could be stripped and redone as drastically as the DE (though it could be said that the 3rd edition remake of the orks has turned them from a relatively unpopular army into a relatively popular one, similar to what the DE might be able to accomplish). But the other armies in that group COULD. That's where the success/failure of the DE will determine (somewhat) the level of effort put into the other armies. If the DE can make the shift from the bottom/niche tier and into that upper tier of consistent non-Marine armies, that perhaps opens the door for Necrons, Tau, and others to follow, or at least alerts GW to the possibility of such movement.
But I wonder if that's even possible? I mean, is it possible for Tau, DE, Necrons, etc. to dethrone or even edge their way into that lumping? I really don't think so, no matter how good the codex is. I don't think they'll ever be a "mainstream" or top market army, no matter how they're presented.
Tau are pretty main stream though. They are one of the most consistant selling xenos armies from what I have heard from friends still in the GW Management business. Probably the second highest grossing xenos army behind orks. Never underestimate the power of Battletech/Anime.
I think some people here are pulling popularity rankings out of thin air, or imagining that their particular group of friends is indicative of all gamers.
I think it's bizarre to assume that GW won't be guided in some way by how well a complete over haul works on a pre-existing army. There really hasn't been something comparable to this since 3rd edition Orks.
BrassScorpion wrote:Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales.
Really? Hmm... I wonder why...
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plastictrees wrote:There really hasn't been something comparable to this since 3rd edition Orks.
I'd say this is bigger than even that. Orks were already a staple of 40K. DE... aren't. No matter how long they've been around for, they're the army that was sort of always there, but no one ever really played them and their model range completely sucked. Orks were at least fun before their large transformation.
This will be bigger, and I do hope it works for the sake of 40K as a whole.
How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.
As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.
I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...
When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?
InventionThirteen wrote:I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...
When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?
Your old stuff will look way too different next to the upcoming stuff, but provided the weapons, etc don't change too much you shouldn't have to redo anything unless you just want better looking models.
InventionThirteen wrote:I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...
When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?
Your old stuff will look way too different next to the upcoming stuff, but provided the weapons, etc don't change too much you shouldn't have to redo anything unless you just want better looking models.
This is okay, my hopes are that they are still usable with the new codex, if not, I'll simply use the "count as" house rule
Pael wrote:This will be an auspicious release for the Dark Eldar, everyone should all out buy, buy, buy or kiss the DE bye, bye, bye.
Yes... for the people who like playing "evil" armies anyway (in quotes because yes, I know grimdark blah blah blah). I wonder how many people who like the models can commit to buying them in this economy though?
I think Dark Eldar will sell well enough. I think from GW's side they will see moderate sales drawn out over a longer than normal length of time. People will still buy but that they won't buy as much in one go.
DE will be hot for several months due to the new release and new models. The question will be if they can mainain a good level of sales well after the new release.
whitedragon wrote:Because the current codex sucks for Chaos, that's why.
it doesn't suck. it's got a nice art section, decent fluff, and a few power builds that still win. the problem is that its 4th edition bland in its most pure form (along with DA) with very little variety compared with the previous overpowered codex.
BrassScorpion wrote:How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.
As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.
Rubbish I'm afraid.
Used to work for them, and whilst the system is indeed very clever, any 'evidence' you'd have gathered would likely be anecdotal at best. Some stores shift lots of Fantasy, other are predominantly 40k. But in my experience (which is first hand) Chaos sell pretty damned well. Certainly more than Necrons, Tau, and even Eldar.
Fishboy wrote:DE will be hot for several months due to the new release and new models. The question will be if they can mainain a good level of sales well after the new release.
Well, when IG were released, they were ridiculously overpowered. Space Wolves managed to top out the ridiculousness of IG in terms of power level.
If GW wants DE to explode in sales, then they will make the codex the rock to the Space Wolf and IG scissors, and it will beat the crap out of them. Then everyone and their mother will go play DE because they're the best army available.
I think Chaos Space Marines do poorly mostly because all the effort that should have gone into improving their models and rules, instead went to Chaos Daemons. New models drive sales, since most everyone who wanted these models has them. Halfassed effort begets halfassed sales. What was released was on par with the second wave other armies have had. This obviously isn't what's happening with DE.
The art for DE look awesome and the first picture looks awesome. It will take something really stupid to ruin them.
I do love how people make their statements online.
Define 'good level of sales'. Do you compare to Space Marines, or to Battle Fleet Gothic? What is this mystical benchmark of good level of sales?
You are aware that a successful launch goes way beyond just the army getting the spit and polish yes? Other players might want to alter their list, getting say, a new unit of Terminators, or going for large mobs or broods of stuff to shoot them up?
It's an Arms Race man. Someone gets new toys and new strengths, forcing their opponents to adapt.
SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.
I think DE will sell well continuously as long as they do 3 things:
1) Great models (probably done)
2) Parts fit regular Eldar (hopefully done)
3) Variety of builds that work in 5th edition (phil kelly is known for this)
Reasons being that great models obviously draw people in. Duality on the parts increases sales for conversion and such and will actually help boost Eldar sales as well. And lastly it's the people that like to try new things and still be competitive so that they wind up building a larger and larger army over time. If all of these things happen look to see them holding strong as a xenos seller.
@Mr. Mystery
He was talking about US sales. Not British. And they do share that information with their managers here. And from what I've heard Brass Scorpion is pretty close to right in regards to 40k.
BrassScorpion wrote:How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.
As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.
Rubbish I'm afraid.
Used to work for them, and whilst the system is indeed very clever, any 'evidence' you'd have gathered would likely be anecdotal at best. Some stores shift lots of Fantasy, other are predominantly 40k. But in my experience (which is first hand) Chaos sell pretty damned well. Certainly more than Necrons, Tau, and even Eldar.
Not wanting to be 'that guy' but you do know after the Necron hoax you've lost all credibility as an information source of any sort now.
Hulksmash wrote:SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.
I think DE will sell well continuously as long as they do 3 things:
1) Great models (probably done)
2) Parts fit regular Eldar (hopefully done)
3) Variety of builds that work in 5th edition (phil kelly is known for this)
Reasons being that great models obviously draw people in. Duality on the parts increases sales for conversion and such and will actually help boost Eldar sales as well. And lastly it's the people that like to try new things and still be competitive so that they wind up building a larger and larger army over time. If all of these things happen look to see them holding strong as a xenos seller.
I don't agree necessarily on JoWW making Nids a bad codex, I feel they are just as solid as IG and the Marine variants, but I agree with everything else.
Never said there were a bad codex. Just that didn't stand up perfectly with the others due to that single power. Since that power negatively affects 2 of the better bugs in the list quite nastily and a 3rd who most people don't use (the carnie). I still think they are a solid codex and just finished up my list which I think will do quite well in the next few monts of RTT's
Hulksmash wrote:SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.
QFT.
If someone thinks SW are bad now, they either didn't play 2nd edition or don't remember it, LOL. I'm looking at you, 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with Assault Cannons. And even 2nd ed SW were topped in ridiculousness by 2nd ed. Eldar.
I think 5th edition is in a very good place overall. And (getting this back on topic) with DE almost here, DH/GK coming soon and WH apparently on the agenda, it's looking like GW will actually meet its promise to update all the remaining 3rd ed. codices before 6th ed arrives. The game certainly has its flaws, but I feel like we're in a kind of a Silver Age for 40K and hope the game's only tweaked for 6th instead of overhauled. Jervis's admission that major overhauls sell more stuff has me nervous, though.
Probably best to live in the moment and enjoy these releases and games while they last.
Kurgash wrote: Not wanting to be 'that guy' but you do know after the Necron hoax you've lost all credibility as an information source of any sort now.
Credibility is one of those things that can wane at one moment, and then wax a few days later.
From what we've seen major overhauls seems to happen every 2 editions. 1st and 2nd, major overhaul to third and 4th, major overhaul to 5th so fingers crossed they just tweak it for 6th as I think they really got it mostly right for 5th edition.
I can't wait for DE. Another fully updated xenos army to add to my collection. I've got my DIY marines for any marine list I wanna do and then orks, daemons, and nids. DE would make a great addition to it
Mr Mystery wrote:Define 'good level of sales'. Do you compare to Space Marines, or to Battle Fleet Gothic? What is this mystical benchmark of good level of sales?
I'd say if Dark Eldar can get 1/5th the sales of Space Marines with 1/5th the number of plastic kits, that would be a very good level of sales.
Mr Mystery wrote:Define 'good level of sales'. Do you compare to Space Marines, or to Battle Fleet Gothic? What is this mystical benchmark of good level of sales?
I'd say if Dark Eldar can get 1/5th the sales of Space Marines with 1/5th the number of plastic kits, that would be a very good level of sales.
Yeah, you probably wouldn't compare their sales to a completely different game that GW no longer supports. I can't imagine it would be very difficult for GW to get a good sense of how well DE sell compare to their other ranges. I'm pretty sure it's not a mystical process.
The DE pose an interesting issue and I'll curious to see how they are designed and how they ultimately play out. They have been described as an alpha strike, finesse army. Those types demand a higher level of skill. Will that be appealing to Joe Blow 40K that gets befuddled by any tactics other than "push all models forward into assault" or "sit in gunline rolling dice"? My hope is that DE are an excellent maneuver-based army, one that is extremely mobile and adaptive, with lots of subtle force multipliers rather than one that is loaded with uber, "obviously better than everything else in the codex" units that win games on their own. What's the challenge in that?
"Space marines" are collectivey ~40% of all the armies but generate ~50% of sales. 6 out of 15 armies are space marines, meaning the remaining 9 armies split the other 50% of 40k sales. So when Dark Eldar come out they'd be expected to make up about 5% of the total sales to be on par with the other armies. If they exceed that then they're more succesful than the average non marine army.
Well, if the rest of the range looks that good, I'll be doing my part to support the DE. Hell, I might even pre-order... which I have NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER done under any circumstances for a GW product... in fact, I haven't bought anything new in god knows how long...
And people need to stop bitching about JotWW. It ain't bad, I survived 6 turns of that BS power with an all nurgle daemon army. Didn't lose a single model, and thats saying something when the majority of my units were I2 (I3 for the bigger gribblies).
plastictrees wrote:Look, were not talking about hot womenz or middle eastern politics, I think this qualifies as the most successful DE rumours thread to date.
This might be because we actually know the DE are going to be released, unlike all the half ass threads wishlisting with no actual proof.
Counting as I4 vs I2 is a huge difference dude. And It's nid focal units that are I1 (I2 against JotWW) not 15pt troops. Dying 2/3 vs. 1/3 is a pretty significant difference. But like I said. It's only that one power and it's only against Nids. Using a Daemon example as to why JotWW isn't powerful against Nids is pointless. Nids still are an excellent codex it just means that they don't stand up as well against all 5th codexes. Just against all but 1
@On-Topic
I'll be pre-ordering if I can get the damn webstore to take my GW gift card.....If not then I'll be waiting till it shows up in store since it won't matter anyway. But I'm already committed to supported them to the tune of $250 minimum on opening weekend
Counting as I4 vs I2 is a huge difference dude. And It's nid focal units that are I1 (I2 against JotWW) not 15pt troops. Dying 2/3 vs. 1/3 is a pretty significant difference. But like I said. It's only that one power and it's only against Nids. Using a Daemon example as to why JotWW isn't powerful against Nids is pointless. Nids still are an excellent codex it just means that they don't stand up as well against all 5th codexes. Just against all but 1
They count as I3 because they are I2 base and have +1 for monstrous. No I4 at all. And nids are really not that bad off. If all you have are monstrous creatures with I1, and you don't have nay of the other units from that book with I3/4 or higher... then you did something wrong.
As for preordering, Well I have just shy of 1 grand left over from my student loans... the temptation is overwhelming
You missed the point. For nids they are Focal units. For Daemons they aren't. Most nids have a ton of higher I but their focal units (HG, Tervigons, and Tyrano's) are basically I2. Those are much more painful to lose. Nuff of that though, it's way OT.
aka_mythos wrote:"Space marines" are collectivey ~40% of all the armies but generate ~50% of sales. 6 out of 15 armies are space marines, meaning the remaining 9 armies split the other 50% of 40k sales. So when Dark Eldar come out they'd be expected to make up about 5% of the total sales to be on par with the other armies. If they exceed that then they're more succesful than the average non marine army.
I was under the impression that space marines accounted for about 50% of sales across ALL ranges/game systems/products, not just 40k. Is that not right anymore?
aka_mythos wrote:"Space marines" are collectivey ~40% of all the armies but generate ~50% of sales. 6 out of 15 armies are space marines, meaning the remaining 9 armies split the other 50% of 40k sales. So when Dark Eldar come out they'd be expected to make up about 5% of the total sales to be on par with the other armies. If they exceed that then they're more succesful than the average non marine army.
I was under the impression that space marines accounted for about 50% of sales across ALL ranges/game systems/products, not just 40k. Is that not right anymore?
No that's right. From what I've heard, Space Marines outsell ALL of Fantasy, for starters.
Leggy wrote:I was under the impression that space marines accounted for about 50% of sales across ALL ranges/game systems/products, not just 40k. Is that not right anymore?
Hardly ever was, WHFB is very popular and i can't imagine Spazz mahreenz outselling a whole of 24 armies (across WHFB and 40k combined) plus whatever few models LotR sells.
I have always heard that SM account for 1/3 of all GW sales (and that they do outsell fantasy, although after 8th this might have changed).
Hulksmash - In a nurgle daemon army, the monstrous critters are the focal units as well. Moreso than in a tyranid army in fact. Plaguebearers offer nothing in the way of ranged combat capability, and very little in offensive cc capability. Their only advantage is their refusal to die. Thus they form a very solid anvil, which you need the monstrous creature hammer to smash against if you want to succeed.
Contrast this to Tyranids who can build fairly capable armies without a single MC.
You know maybe people are going the wrong way with this....
Perhaps we can use this upcomeing release to lash back at those drug dealers that call themselves GW and boycott the release. All the fuel they are putting on the fire to jumpstart a new race. If no one buys then they will be ruined! Kinda putting all thier eggs into one basket persay. For all the thousands of dollars Ive spent on GW, they reward me with price hikes, rapidly declining fluff, and a huge pool of powergamers or 12 year olds. NOW is our chance to strike BACK!
No but seriously... ill prolly spend half my paycheck come nov on DE stuff... fml I hate you GW Meth would be easier to say no too.
Lots of rejoicing is good. I am happy to see this long overdue army getting redone but I am skeptical of the manner than the d.e. are being released. It seems that g.w. is going to give us everything that is needed for the 1500 point range with no battleforce. It seems that this will deter many from buying this army.
A buddy of mine said that the new stuff is beautiful so it has been a worthwhile wait but those are the perks of living 10th minutes from h.q.
I'm gonna be done arguing with you. If you think that the great unclean one is a focal equal to that of a Tervigon then I don't think we can have a discussion on it. Especially since your DP's are I5 to start....
@Kirsanth
I'm gonna agree with the being stoked on another Xenos army not being 10 years out of date with ya. The more current codexes the better. I've personally already noticed a lower number of Marine players in total lately at tournaments than ever before.
Leggy wrote:I was under the impression that space marines accounted for about 50% of sales across ALL ranges/game systems/products, not just 40k. Is that not right anymore?
Hardly ever was, WHFB is very popular and i can't imagine Spazz mahreenz outselling a whole of 24 armies (across WHFB and 40k combined) plus whatever few models LotR sells.
I think this is wishful thinking from the WFB side. SMs have been widely reported to outsell all Fantasy combined for quite some time. WFB being popular relative to discontinued SGs and smaller lines like WM/H doesn't mean it's the juggernaut that 40k is, with SMs leading the way.
aka_mythos wrote:"Space marines" are collectivey ~40% of all the armies but generate ~50% of sales. 6 out of 15 armies are space marines, meaning the remaining 9 armies split the other 50% of 40k sales. So when Dark Eldar come out they'd be expected to make up about 5% of the total sales to be on par with the other armies. If they exceed that then they're more succesful than the average non marine army.
Is this true? Does anyone actually have real numbers for this? Just asking because I have seen a lot of different numbers thrown around about this and wanted to see what was really going on.
Back on topic though, with Jes Goodwin doing the entire range it seems likely the models will be good looking so to me that would lead to increased sales just by itself. Then add in that the army hasn't been redone in like 30 years and I think you pretty much have a recipe for good initial sales at the very least. Hopefully they sell well and they decide to redo squats too.
Dashofpepper wrote:Well, when IG were released, they were ridiculously overpowered. Space Wolves managed to top out the ridiculousness of IG in terms of power level.
Yeah, except no. IG are powerful, but not overpowered. Most people just didn't know how to adapt their tactics and builds to facing IG.
Same with Space Wolves to an extent. And probably DE, too when they come out.
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brettz123 wrote:Is this true? Does anyone actually have real numbers for this?
No, they don't. People just like to pull numbers out of the cargo bays of this ship
*mutters something about the edit function being weird just now...*
Yeah, except no. There's no denying IG and SW are top tier armies. (Overpowered, maybe, maybe not, but still two armies that always perform well....) Yes; you can beat them, but it's no surprise to seeing them always competitive at tourney's.
As for DE, I hope they are the alpha strike master's. It should be their forte. - If you survive their onslaught with half your army, then, you would be doing well. At least that's how I always figured them... Swathes of early casualties, but if you put up a fight, they could just melt away into the background, waiting for another opportunity.
Sounds about right to me. A very expensive special character, a wych, a haemonculus, and one other (incubi phoenix lord?), along with maybe a vehicle upgrade char, and an upgrade char for those surfer dudes.
Decapitator,Drazhar, Urien Rakarth, Lelith, Kruellagh & Asdrubael. So yeah 6 atm, it will be an easy 8+ In the nex dex if the focus is on SC changing how the army attacks... weeeee~!
Samus_aran115 wrote:Hey, take it easy there. Nice to see it..But......You're rude. Jes would be angry that something was revealed 2 days early.
Eh, I'm half a planet away from gamesday, I have trouble being too concerned (particularly when his real gripe is with the GW marketing plan not the internet). Its not as if it wasn't gonna get tossed up by somebody once it hit warseer.
Samus_aran115 wrote:Hey, take it easy there. Nice to see it..But......You're rude. Jes would be angry that something was revealed 2 days early.
Eh, I'm half a planet away from gamesday, I have trouble being too concerned (particularly when his real gripe is with the GW marketing plan not the internet). Its not as if it wasn't gonna get tossed up by somebody once it hit warseer.
Jack
I'm kidding. Thanks for the pic. I hate DE, but I might pick some up now.
I like that it actually has an Eldar feel, something that was really lost on the Generation 1 DE. However, the update has obvious carryover from G1DE as well. Primarily on the rifle. I don't think having these along side some of the old ones will detract much at all, though the sculpt is definately nice. I can feel confident about taking my time updating my DE and not having to jump whole hog into replacing every warrior I have.
The model looks hastily put together, mould line middle of the helmet, and as we all know the generic troops have the most generic poses.
Wow, not bad at all! Must say it'll look better with a bit of de-spiking (like cutting the big blade/bayonet thing off), but the proportions are good, the stance is good, and the hands/head aren't goofy. Particularly loving the faceplate. Nice work, Jes.
Rinkydink wrote:
As for DE, I hope they are the alpha strike master's. It should be their forte. - If you survive their onslaught with half your army, then, you would be doing well. At least that's how I always figured them... Swathes of early casualties, but if you put up a fight, they could just melt away into the background, waiting for another opportunity.
Given how recently there were comments published in WD or on the website (can't recall where) from a member of the design team about how designing an army reliant on an "alpha strike" concept was considered to be poor game design and not fun for either player, I highly doubt DE will be an alpha strike force.
Jackmojo wrote:Shamelessly...borrowed from Warseer:
Can I salt it?.... Plllllease Thou the bayonet looks like it rises infront of the barrel means all our guns will fire two shots right? And I like the Incubi style face plate~!
ChrisCP wrote:Can I salt it?.... Plllllease Thou the bayonet looks like it rises infront of the barrel means all our guns will fire two shots right? And I like the Incubi style face plate~!
Yeah, that's pretty sexy. Exactly the sort of helmet I was hoping they'd go for as well.
I wonder if those shoulder pads are separate bitz?
Looks like Orks are going on the back burner for me.
It might be double barreled with the blade between them. Evil stabby space shotgun.
It actually looks evil. Not too many spikes, though the nipple spike is kind of odd. I'm not really a fan of the giant bayonet, but it looks like a glue-on accessory and not some thing molded on to it, which is good.. Jes Goodwin, how do you do it, you magnificent son of a
I agree with the comment about the bayonet. But regardless it took aspects from my 2 favorite armies (eldar, Dark eldar) and put them together into one awesoome ball!!!
Munch Munch! wrote:It actually looks evil. Not too many spikes, though the nipple spike is kind of odd. I'm not really a fan of the giant bayonet, but it looks like a glue-on accessory and not some thing molded on to it, which is good.. Jes Goodwin, how do you do it, you magnificent son of a
I assumed the "nipple spike" was some kind of Dark Eldar middle finger to soulstones.
I like it, though now i wish I had just gone ahead and ebay'd that lot of CWE guardians I saw for cheap and just used my warriors to convert them.... The similarity is almost concerning....
12 years for a tweak on the current guardian.... the more I see this the more disappointed I am, I need to see more though.
Am I a bad person for wanting to put old DE warrior heads on these new models? It's really appealing. I like the old heads, these are too plain. I hope there's some haired options.
I actually agree with you, I am troubled that the NEW look all ready has me wanting to kit bash it..... I give Jes a lot of respect but he really could have done a bit more here IMHO.
Yes it looks good, but it really doesn't look THAT different to the originals . . . Yes they have more detail on them, and the helmets and guns are a different shape . . . but they're not too different. I'm NOT saying that's bad, I'm just saying that after 12 years you would expect them to be a bit more different. I don't think I will be buying more than one box, but atleast I now know that they will fit nicely into my army. As they're not too different that they will look out of place. (See the generations of SM for an example of big changes over time)
I'd wait for more pictures of the other options on the sprue before making judgements about how boring the unit'll be. Of course, you'd have to think the new model is boring in the first place.
I agree, I am glad too see i am not the only one that thought 12 years would have birthed more creativity... I am also a bit relieved that my 70 current warriors won't be sore thumbs next to the new guys but that reasoning seems a bit slefish at the same time....
I personally wanted to feel like I needed all new models because of the design... Also is it just me or is that the biggest musket like rifle ever!
muskets were actually pretty big in real life... so no...
Really I dont know what ya'll are complaining about, but I'm sure we can put the entire model range and the codex back into development for another 12 years, right?
Used to work for them, and whilst the system is indeed very clever, any 'evidence' you'd have gathered would likely be anecdotal at best. Some stores shift lots of Fantasy, other are predominantly 40k. But in my experience (which is first hand) Chaos sell pretty damned well. Certainly more than Necrons, Tau, and even Eldar.
Chaos Marines are not one of the best selling lines now. When you worked there I'm sure it was a different story, there have been times when they were a top seller, 2010 has not been one of them. Your anecdotal story from years ago is hardly relevant or applicable now, but I'll refrain from being rude and calling it "rubbish".
I like the arms as those are very different from the old models. The legs however seem very similar to the old models. The chest looks like the dire avenger chests so it looks a lot like a kitbash to me, however I like it. I am still waiting for a wych pic leak hehe. I have been waiting sooo long for this it is driving me crazy hehe.
I thought the legs were the only strong part of the old models. I think there was no chance that we weren't going to see more compatibility with the Eldar plastics.
I've been out of the loop for a bit, are the CWG still the same models as 9+ years ago? The two part leg kits?
I have to say, I like it a LOT more than the old Warriors. The old ridiculous tall hairy helmets were one of the many reasons I was waiting for a new model line. And in my opinion, the old warriors were much too "busy." Simpler model for line troops, more elaborate model for commanders - the old DE sort of reversed this.
I'm a big fan of the new sculpt. Definitely going to have to put my planned expansion of my Orks and Tau on hold for these guys!
So, considering that it's been said a million times that the Warriors would look like the art in the 5th ed book, like Guardians with some darker aesthetics, and we've only seen one image of one of many possible configurations, people here are already disappointed and acting surprised. For those of you wanting something "different' what would you suggest? Make the model busy as hell so it looks like something out of a Joe Madureira nightmare?
White knighting plastic spacemen ITT I know, but seriously. I think this guy looks pretty boss for some rank and file infantry.
It's amazing to finally see them, though it's a shame I opted for a 500 point Ork army to fight my IG before they came out. Oh well, I might still have to pick one up to paint for kicks, or make some interesting kill-team scenario using them (they are raiders after all)
I wasn't saying that he new look was bad.... just that with 12 years of possible development that it was sadly similar to the current guardian configuration... but again i digress as I have to see what other options come with the kit.... At least it is all in proportion and less S&M...
Red Corsair wrote:I wasn't saying that he new look was bad.... just that with 12 years of possible development that it was sadly similar to the current guardian configuration... but again i digress as I have to see what other options come with the kit.... At least it is all in proportion and less S&M...
Those are actually ass-less pants he's wearing.
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chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah... internet vocab phail...
lets take the opportunity to name the action "plastic treeing"...
I think Task may have defined that as something much ruder, but that was a long time ago.
It will be really interesting to see the different head types and all the different weapon options.....I doubt rules wise you will have the 10 man 2 Dark Lance spam unit anymore. Hopefully they have lot's of assault weapon options...and the splinter rifles arent rapid fire. = (
-Wardancer- wrote:It will be really interesting to see the different head types and all the different weapon options.....I doubt rules wise you will have the 10 man 2 Dark Lance spam unit anymore. Hopefully they have lot's of assault weapon options...and the splinter rifles arent rapid fire. = (
Just hope that they don't get the Guardian Treatment and end up being armed with 12" Assault weapons.
anyone else see that the "power plant" thingie is the same on the Eldar rifles? i cant spell that sorry but it has the jewel things on it
terribly simular.... was that on purpous?
Quite like the helm and overall is a good looking model.
I am not disappointed with the pose either.
Even if it is static, it looks purposeful (of evil intent!)
The only thing that bugs me is the ergonomics of the weapon. If it could be raised and aimed from the shoulder the stock would not be very comfy
It looks Eldarish which is what it should imho
Very much looking forward to seeing more
(sorry correction, seeing MOAR!)
I'm very glad to see that the chest on the model is more broad than the art depicts. DE have looked skinny for too long. Other than that, the similarity between model and art is uncanny. I'm not sure what everybody was expecting, we're getting exactly what the 5th ed rulebook showed us. This model looks great. Completely different from the old Warriors, yet still immediately identifiable as Eldar, only with a dark twist. Every time we get 'new' SM models, I have to wonder 'in what way is this new?' But this... This is definitely new, different and better.
The way I see it, this Dark Eldar warrior is very good, but has some flaws. The good thing is it has all the right flaws.
By that I mean it looks like this is a bare minimum assembly from the sprue to show what is possible if you put in the bare minimum effort- and it looks quite good. But there's room to make slight modifications to the pose/gun/bayonet/details to make it a truly unique and great-looking model. And depending on what extra bits are on the sprue, I bet there's potential to make some really fantastic dark Eldar here.
What I really dig about this model is the clean, sharp lines. It will be soooo easy to slice him up and repose as you see fit with the minimum amount of resculpting needed. Which means my conversion plans just doubled....
I really liked the art of the Dark Eldar in the 5th edition rulebook from the start. And now i like the very similiar DE warrior as well.
Cant wait to paint some of those.
Harry over at Warseer posted (got this from a friend who reads Warseer, which i dont):
That is NOT a final warrior ... although some elements remain very similar they evolved a good bit.
Not least in the helmet department.
Generally speaking they have more detail.
Iron Angel wrote:Harry over at Warseer posted (got this from a friend who reads Warseer, which i dont):
That is NOT a final warrior ... although some elements remain very similar they evolved a good bit.
Not least in the helmet department.
Generally speaking they have more detail.
Nice.
It's also amusing how defensive people can be about visiting Warseer...
Yup. That is the model we had the description of.
I didn't say it wasn't a Warrior. I said it was not a final version of a Warrior.
I said it was just one of the very early test (Concept) sculpts that Jes did.
I'm pretty sure that is a resin cast not plastic.
That is one of the sculpts that David Gallhager based the Warrior art on.
That is NOT a final warrior ... although some elements remain very similar they evolved a good bit.
Not least in the helmet department.
Generally speaking they have more detail.(...)
Yup.
This was just Jes's first swing at them.
If you look at it closely, it does appear to be a resin prototype, rather than something assembled from plastic components: The surface isn't as smooth as GW's current plastic minis, and the detail is a little 'soft', especially around the weapon - contrast this with the high degree of precision on the latest plastic kits, such as the Blood Angels. The proportions also seem a bit off, although Goodwin often does that (presumably deliberately). I suspect the actual Warriors will be more refined than this, and probably more ornate.
Actually, I think with the spikes cut off it would make a great guardian. And I'm ok with that. An even narrower torso would be OK as well - GW elves are a bit too chunky IMHO. I hope the loincloth is a detachable piece, as I like the Dire avenger ones better.
Generated a side-by-side of the Eldar Jetbike Helmet next to the prototype Dark Eldar Helmet. To me, this really looks like a throw back to the 2nd ed/RT Guardians.
SaintHazard wrote:It would be. Same reason you don't see Chaos Marines in Mk 8 "Errant" armor, you won't see Dark Eldar in the newest Eldar armor variants.
A shout out to 2nd-edition Eldar makes sense to me.
Yet but a lot of chaos helmets look more like the Mk7
There are no Mk6 or less helmets besides some funky ones such as iron warriors or bezerkers
SaintHazard wrote:It would be. Same reason you don't see Chaos Marines in Mk 8 "Errant" armor, you won't see Dark Eldar in the newest Eldar armor variants.
A shout out to 2nd-edition Eldar makes sense to me.
Yet a lot of chaos helmets look more like the Mk7
There are no Mk6 or less helmets besides some funky ones such as iron warriors or bezerkers
Which I could never understand I guess they assume people don't want to paint them
Don't DE have ways to make their own armour? Why wouldn't they have the newest stuff..?
Armorsmiths? That doesn't sound terribly diabolical. Besides, since everyone on Comorragh is trying to kill you, you can only trust looted armor, and weapons you steal from other dead DE. Everything else is likely booby trapped, posioned, horribly flawed in one particular place, or all of the above.
Also, don't trust things you take from people that are easy to kill- they may have been deliberately armed and armored with trapped gear, since your enemy knows you'd easily kill them and would trust the gear from their bodies.
Really, it is a miracle that anyone on Comorragh is still alive.
Samus_aran115 wrote:Which I could never understand I guess they assume people don't want to paint them
Don't DE have ways to make their own armour? Why wouldn't they have the newest stuff..?
Because they're not Eldar.
Their craftsmen will make the most recent DE stuff. However, since they don't exactly jump on Skype for a chat session with the nearest Craftworld every week, their craftsmen will not be making the most recent Eldar stuff.
If you've got 2nd edition Eldar armor that splits off into DE and Eldar armor, Eldar armor will evolve into 5th-edition Eldar armor, but DE armor will NOT evolve into 5th-edition Eldar armor. It'll be something quite different.
Gitzbitah wrote:Armorsmiths? That doesn't sound terribly diabolical.
LOWL
I need to read up on DE fluff. I've read some of the codex stuff, but I've always kind of 'ignored' it, since it could be declared 'non-canon' at any time.
SaintHazard wrote:It would be. Same reason you don't see Chaos Marines in Mk 8 "Errant" armor, you won't see Dark Eldar in the newest Eldar armor variants.
A shout out to 2nd-edition Eldar makes sense to me.
Yet but a lot of chaos helmets look more like the Mk7
There are no Mk6 or less helmets besides some funky ones such as iron warriors or bezerkers
I don't think its so much to say Dark Eldar are using older armor as it is that GW is divorcing more and more of the notion of Eldar pirates from the Craftworld Eldar and characterizing the Dark Eldar retroactively as those eldar, who in past were and continue to be pirates and raiders. So then its drawing the aesthetic parallel between the older models which represented Eldar as pirates and the Dark Eldar who now are.
Mk8 is a purely post Heresy armor, so if its floating around chaos it'd be very rare and most likely come off a more modern marine gone renegade as opposed to coming from one of the original 9 legions.
The previous versions of chaos marines had helmets that were more distinctly meant to represent older marks of armor. When Jes Goodwyn did the original cult marines for chaos he did concept art that specifically labeled deathguard, bezerkers, and emperor's children as having combinations of older marks of armor. Older Deathguard were largely Mk2 and Mk3, Older Emperor's Children were mostly Mk6, and Bezerkers MkV. Iron Warriors are generally suppose to be MkIII. This by no means is to say they use one type exclusively. Modern interpretations have phased out some of those visual distinctions. Part of why its difficult to recognize is because chaos doesn't just use those armor's components they use chaos stylized versions and a Mk5 stylized helmet, such as those on Niightlords, Bezerkers, and in the basic box just end up looking like Mk7.
I don't know if he did "3rd edition." CSM. He just did alot of the conceptualizing as well as the first cult chaos marine models.
He's single handedly done mostl the design work that has made each factions aesthetic distinctive of each other. To anyone who doesn't have it. I highly recommend The Gothic and the Eldritch a now out of print compilation of his concept art put out by black library (I still can't believe he want dreadnoughts to have twinlinked assault cannons).
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Even if it is static, it looks purposeful (of evil intent!) . . . It looks Eldarish which is what it should imho
100% agree on both counts.
I'm a little troubled, however, to see how the model looks exactly like the art. I thought the word was that there had been significant redesign since that painting/drawing was done.
Nevermind:
Kroothawk wrote:Here the full quote:
Yup. That is the model we had the description of. I didn't say it wasn't a Warrior. I said it was not a final version of a Warrior. I said it was just one of the very early test (Concept) sculpts that Jes did. I'm pretty sure that is a resin cast not plastic. That is one of the sculpts that David Gallhager based the Warrior art on.
That is NOT a final warrior ... although some elements remain very similar they evolved a good bit. Not least in the helmet department. Generally speaking they have more detail.(...) Yup. This was just Jes's first swing at them.
I think that for a basic troops model, this is perfectly awesome. I expect when the new characters come out they wil be vastly more detailed and sinister looking, just like they are with every other line. The warrior looks great in my opinion, hats off to Mr Goodwin.
Last night, I had a dream that I went down to the FLGS to see the new Codex: DE, only to discover that the new codex was not Dark Eldar at all, but something totally different.
chaos0xomega wrote:Instead it was... ANOTHER SPACE MARINE CODEX!!! AHHHHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH OH NO AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aka_mythos wrote:I don't know if he did "3rd edition." CSM. He just did alot of the conceptualizing as well as the first cult chaos marine models.
He's single handedly done mostl the design work that has made each factions aesthetic distinctive of each other. To anyone who doesn't have it. I highly recommend The Gothic and the Eldritch a now out of print compilation of his concept art put out by black library (I still can't believe he want dreadnoughts to have twinlinked assault cannons).
Coincidentally, these are being re-released! I can't believe how good these look for being so long ago. Much more style and flair than the current ones. I might actuallly pick up 2 or three sets of those new sets.
Gitzbitah wrote:Really, it is a miracle that anyone on Comorragh is still alive.
That's why they form gangs -- kults, kabals, etc. Mess with one, you mess with all. Once equilibrium sets in, you'd have a functioning society...of sorts.
Back on topic, the test model is a great start. If the design was further refined as rumored, I imagine they're going to be very, very nice.
If I could postulate a suggestion: close this thread the day of Gamesday and make a new one, so we have all of the newest information in the OP and can add to it as the day progresses and stuff gets revealed. I think this thread has served its purpose and we should start fresh.
bhsman wrote:If I could postulate a suggestion: close this thread the day of Gamesday and make a new one, so we have all of the newest information in the OP and can add to it as the day progresses and stuff gets revealed. I think this thread has served its purpose and we should start fresh.
Wow. Just... Wow. I love these models, the warrior and the Incubi. Really, I wanna have their babies lol.
Gonna buy tons of these. I really don't think the warrior is too similar to current Warriors or Guardians. It's bulkier and much more detailed than current Warriors - no more skinny legs in smooth leggings lol thank goodness (or badness). And although the basic shape is very Guardian, there's plenty of Dark Eldar detail - I especially like the armour plates. It's quite surprising how this model looks almost identical to the 5th edition art, yet just the pose and the build make it look more dynamic and threatening.
Warriors could have looked more sadistic I guess, but it's clear that this isn't the final version of them, and the plastic box is bound to have loads of extra bitz.
I'm already considering the kitbashing opportunities. Not because these models are lacking, but because there are one or two nice bitz in the current Dark Eldar line (a couple of the helmets and chestplates were interesting) and I love the Dark Elf models, and I think there's loads of potential for creating really beautiful and unique conversions. I may also mix in some bitz from current Eldar and Rogue Trader Eldar to make corsairs and mercenaries.
Well thats my choice for a thrid army gone it was close with guard and deamons but this just looks awesome (as well as the blury incubi)
so i can't wait till sunday as i going to gamesday this year.
It's similar to the Imperium throwing planets at Tyranid hive fleets to slow them down. Which the Imperium doesn't actually do, but you have to admit it'd be awesome.
SaintHazard wrote:It's similar to the Imperium throwing planets at Tyranid hive fleets to slow them down. Which the Imperium doesn't actually do, but you have to admit it'd be awesome.
Isn't that how Kryptman borrowed time to develop means to combat Leviathan? Fight the Nids as much as possible then burn the planet before consumption to use up bio-mass?
SaintHazard wrote:No no, I mean literally tooling up some Ad Mech fleets to throw entire planets at hive swarms.
AH! Well the imperium could take a page from the Ork book on mechanical ingenuity and strap as many rockets as possible to the back of the planet, ignite and GO!
SaintHazard wrote:No no, I mean literally tooling up some Ad Mech fleets to throw entire planets at hive swarms.
AH! Well the imperium could take a page from the Ork book on mechanical ingenuity and strap as many rockets as possible to the back of the planet, ignite and GO!
lol, didn't they do something like that on futurama?
Looking it over again, I think the Warrior's eyes aren't quite as narrow as they should be to give it a properly evil face. Makes it look a tad too Craftworldy.
Archonate wrote:Looking it over again, I think the Warrior's eyes aren't quite as narrow as they should be to give it a properly evil face. Makes it look a tad too Craftworldy.
I hope the helmet revisions fix that...
Sometimes peripheral vision must trump even evil. Even in the girmdark of the far, far, future, OSHA demands a certain field of vision on all Space Elf safety gear.
So now I'm tempted to start new Dark Eldar, along with my 40K Orks (I really need to buy some more for them, but I don't want to shell out the $200+ USD for finishing my 1500pt list and don't like that Storm Boyz are almost the same price per-model (actually, slightly more) than metal Incubi).
So far, Old!Incubi with New!Warriors, and then see how everything else looks. If I get Incubi, I'll need to get them soon though: Doubt the 22 I could get now (10 Ebay, 12 Maelstrom, leaves me 20 basic and 2 Special Weapons) will last long if the DEldar codex is announced and looks good.
For one thing I was banned by a certain *::censored by the Inquisition for excessive vulgarity::* mod for absolutely no reason at all. In fact, I was basically banned because some other *::censored by the Inquisition for excessive vulgarity::* user decided to flame me... Now thats justice...
Anyway, how much longer do we have to wait until stuff happens?
Dang it! It's already Sunday in the UK Hurry up and put up pictures
On a side not I was told today that pre-orders start on October 13th...It's a newer redshirt and I didn't have time to follow up with the manager but just a little news.
Let's lay off the Warseer bashing. If you don't like the forum, don't go there, but don't trash it here. That's just bad form (and against the Dakka rules).
Feel free to trash talk the undead, though. I hate those bastards.
E as soon as I can.
But on the plus side, I haven't bought any more of them since. The 
No wishlisting! Squats are extinct! 
