Hi,
everytime I try to post a new batch of Dark Eldar rumours, the previous Dark Eldar thread is already closed due to spamming. Let's try to keep this one alive until Games Day UK, when the official pics and informations will come. This post is just the already updated summary. You find the new batch of rumours in the third post of this thread to keep this post just the summary.(and to avoid it being automatically attached ).
Rumour Summary
Release in November (confirmed by GW). Preorder on 13th October.
First official presentation by Jes Goodwin on GDUK (26th September), models also on display at GD Germany (17th October).
GW wrote:Veteran miniatures designer Jes Goodwin will be talking about the forthcoming range of Dark Eldar miniatures and showing an exclusive preview of the new models.
First wave:
Codex (written by Phil Kelly)
3 metal blisters
3 metal boxes
6 plastic boxes
1 Special item.
5 of the 6 plastic boxes are, as confirmed by Harry:
Warriors (male and female, no top knots )
Wyches (male and female, include at least one head with a blank faceplate like the Shadowseer)
Raider (including crew hanging from its side adding to the offensive capability of the ship, modelled by Aly Morrison)
Ravager/Slaughterer (! new variant)
Hellions
Strongly expected to be the 6th box is the Reaver jetbike.
Metal Boxes seem to be Mandrakes, Incubi and maybe Talos (can also be plastic or later).
Metal Blisters may be new character, Archon and Wych Lord.
There will be a 1.5 and 2nd wave next year, maybe including a battleforce, maybe not. Avian heard a long time ago that these will be January and March, but this seems unlikely now.
Most miniatures done by Jes Goodwin over the last few years, but Juan Diaz, Seb Perbett and Aly Morrison also made a few. Aly Morrison made the warriors hanging from the Raider.
Here a first hand description by our Waaagh_Gonads :
After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Best start point is to use this pic as a reference.
The warriors are not striding forward and hunched over like they are about to tip over- legs are laid out in a wide stance and the models are much, much better proportioned than the old ones, so no more legs that go all the way up and tiny torsos.
Helmets and non helmeted heads included.
Non helmeted head has a high ponytail.
Ribs/shards of bone poke through loincloths and the ponytail.
The helmets are pretty much identical to the above pic, but with lumps/gems over the ears/temples.
From behind the helmets look exactly like eldar guardian ones.
There is a gem/soulstone on the left chest armour- not the shoulder armour piece as per the above pic.
This is where you have to use your imagination as the pic doesn't show it: On the back there is a backpack that looks like it started as an eldar backpack but does not stick out as far, has vestigal 'vanes' compared to the eldar one (so doesn't stick up above the shoulder) and most excellently down the centre of the backpack, it is recessed with scaled armour over the spine (triangular scales with points downwards)
A high collar that flanges out
Rifle is almost exactly the same as the pic for the base model, even down to the jagged bit that pokes up in front of the warriors abdomen in the pic. There is a variant with what looks to be crossbow arms sticking out laterally (ends up looking like a mini anchor)
Attachable Loincloths (variable designs) One has a skull, one a hook on them.
As per the pic, greaves over the lower legs, then knee pads and scales over the upper legs, with points upwards.
Knife scabbard, 2 'rods' and 2 small sachels on the 'utility belt' posteriorly
Blades of differing lengths and size on various armour parts, primarily lower legs and shoulder pads.
Curved knife HW available.
Attachable blades for the end of splinter rifle.
This pic leaked a few days ago. Harry said that this miniature was one of the first concept sculpts by Jes, on which the warrior art was based. Since then, the warrior sculpts evolved a bit and became more detailed, esp. the helmet.
Three more pieces of art:
(see the Hellion on the left in the background)
Concerning rules: Harlequins are in, Avatar not so much.
Talos will be bigger and have more variants, so probably will be a later plastic kit (<- rumour by Frgt/10 ).
Yakface wrote:I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.
The actual stats are as follows:
All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.
reds8n wrote:I did hear something odd t'other week about them having "special" poisoned weapons -- at least fluff wise -- which had a normal S score but then got a reroll to wound. Poisoned lite I guess ? *shrugs* Not terribly convinced by that, not least as Mr. Kelly -- bless him -- tends to stick more to existing USRs and the like.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:HBMC has pointed out many times before that GW is loathe to fine tune a list, make crappy units (or items) better and tone down the OTT ones.
Rather they seem hell bent of re-inventing the wheel for each codex and making a whole pile of new units lame, and others super +1 awesome for no particular reason other than they can.
The army as a whole often ends up fighing in a similar way, but with vastly different lists.
This army will still be High initiative, low toughness and fast, fast fast, fast with light vehicles.
But as this is almost a complete overhaul from scratch expect almost everything else to change.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:DE don't particularly like psykers, but they do like sucking the souls out of them...
Expect anti psycher wargear.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Apart from the names of units and wargear, pretty much every special rule and item stat has changed.
Concerning background:
Spoiler:
I've also heard the fluff and it was abit different to the rulebook. If i remember correctly basically before the fall Commoragghh was the scum shack of the empire where all the criminals went etc... redlight discrict watnot... anyway, when it survived the fall (not just because it was in the webway but i cant remember the other reasons), they realised that even though their bodies didn't age (as such) thier minds did (or something along those lines), and to stave off slaanesh they found a way to capture the suffering of other beings with their technology, therefore staving off the thirst abit longer, hence why they need constant slaves.
Veteran miniatures designer Jes Goodwin will be talking about the forthcoming range of Dark Eldar miniatures and showing an exclusive preview of the new models.
Then we wait until 13th october to pre-order?
(and finally a certain GD at 17th oct won't provide anything we don't know already)
Here is the latest batch of Dark Eldar rumours that I added to the existing set of rumours above. This batch comes from Prince Sliscus over at 40k Online:
The models are amazing and i have permission to post my pics as soon as uk gamesday arrives.
I've also heard the fluff and it was abit different to the rulebook.
Spoiler:
If i remember correctly basically before the fall Commoragghh was the scum shack of the empire where all the criminals went etc... redlight discrict watnot... anyway, when it survived the fall (not just because it was in the webway but i cant remember the other reasons), they realised that even though their bodies didn't age (as such) thier minds did (or something along those lines), and to stave off slaanesh they found a way to capture the suffering of other beings with their technology, therefore staving off the thirst abit longer, hence why they need constant slaves.
Now i would have posted this bit in the rumours forum but its not officially an announcment so if its in the wrong place feel free to edit or move this mods!
They will be up for october pre-order on the 13th.
Now i had 3 sources, one of which conflicted with the other 2 but this is taking into account what they all said...
The first wave consists of 6 plastic boxes for sure
The only thing that is abit sketchy here is that 2 told me talos is metal, one told me plastic but that was probably a simple mistake. And also one told me that the new reavers if not with 1st wave (apparently they were still deciding at the time) will come out with the new eldar jetbikes and super heavy plastic kit around xmas/january before the new kemri early next year. Scourges and warp beasts etc... are 2nd wave and i think the current heamy models are staying the same for a time.
I've been highly impressed with the work Jes did on the Dark Elves. The quality in the plastic kits has really increased, a range with almost no metals is definitely a plus.
The news of new jet bikes is the most exciting thing for me, they desperately needed an update and hopefully they include all the options for riders
The Dark Eldar Warrior in the rulebook always reminds me of a Cylon.
I have looked at that piece of artwork depicting the Raider assault many times, and I still can't work out what is going on with that sail. It doesn't look as though it is mounted in the centre of the Raider, but it may just be slightly botched perspective (on what is otherwise a great bit of art). It's a good reworking of the original Raider, but I hope they don't add all those random spikes on the final kit version. The excessive application of spikes that helped to make the most of the Dark Eldar look corny rather than scary. Hopefully too the final version is less ship-like than the Raiders in the second piece of artwork.
It's a good question whether Grotesques are in. They almost never appear in DE army lists, yet they have a lot of potential as a unit, and there's something very appropriate about a bunch of horrifically modified warriors.
I'm also hoping the Talos isn't re-done in metal, as an up-sized version in plastic would be a great model and, I think, a good 'hook' for getting people into the DE range. But then I've always liked the look of the Talos.
While the subject of hair styles matters little to me one way or the other in my opinion of how these models look, there's a whole lot of geek-emotion apparently tied up (pun intended) in whether or not they have top knots or not.
That being the case, I find the two clearly contradictory comments from different sources "Non helmeted head has a high ponytail" and "no top knots" quite amusing. As a great bard once said, "a rose by any other name..."
Hearing that the new Talos is still metal at least reassures me that I won't have to add to my backlog to replace my existing one, but some of the plastic sets might be tempting.
Kroothawk, great job pulling all this info together in one concise topic thread. Thanks!
Odd that they'd redo the Talos in metal. Then again, they only have a certain amount of frames they can do a year. Maybe they had other more pressing plans?
Kroothawk,maybe you should suggest this thread be stickied and/or locked until you get more rumours, otherwise I'm going to be putting money on this one going down the off-topic drain like the rest...
If grotesques are anything more than T4 w/ FNP, I'd be surprised. They have some potential in fluff and application, but I doubt they are a priority. Frankly, the only thing that's really disappointing about all this speculation is the utter lack of NEW stuff. Yes, the models will be new and radiating of Jes Good-ness, and yes the "familiar" units will all be redone rules-wise, but the unit concepts are not new. Where are the completely original new skimmers/flyers? Where are the new fast attack options? While after 12 years I appreciate an updated codex and cosmetic overhaul, I do hope they go full-tilt and add in some new, sexy, game-changing type units. I mean, hell, if the Blood Angels can have the Storm Raven, imagine what the actual "fast attack" army can bring to the table.
Anyway, I hope they are just keeping it under wraps and we'll get at least 3+ brand new unit types as well as overhauls of the rest of the dex.
I'd be very surprised if the Talos is metal, all of the 'dreadnought type' models are plastic now. I could see a 'named' Talos as being metal but even that would be stretching it.
The Avatar is still metal, the Talos might be more in that vein, we obviously don't know how it fits with the new codex.
If they don't expect any army to field more than one of them then...
all of the 'dreadnought type' models are plastic now
Almost, but not quite. Chaos Dreadnought, released 1996, metal model, still the current model for that range. If the Talos is still metal then it's not alone.
all of the 'dreadnought type' models are plastic now
Almost, but not quite. Chaos Dreadnought, released 1996, metal model, still the current model for that range.
All standing outside in the rain forlornly scratching at the window with it's terrible "spiked tent pole arm" while plastic Imperial Dreadnoughts dance and play inside.
You are not welcome here Chaos Dreadnought.
Ha ha ha! thats perfect... In all fairness though, chaos dreads are easy to convert from imperial ones, you cant whip up a Talos from the wraith lord kit.... at least not with as much ease.... I would be psyched if they over hauled the talos and gave it a new look, even if it becomes a walker.
I wouldn't be upset with a re-imagined Talos as I have no particular fondess for the scorpibot. But I doubt it will end up as a Dark Wraithlord. On the other hand, Eldar have just as strong a "floaty things" theme as their Dark kin but that doesn't prevent them having walkers.
There may very well be new units that just don't have kits coming out yet. Check out the Stormraven, for example. If there are new units, expect them to possibly be cross-compatible with the next Eldar codex as well, especially if they involve Harlequins.
Lorek wrote:There may very well be new units that just don't have kits coming out yet. Check out the Stormraven, for example. If there are new units, expect them to possibly be cross-compatible with the next Eldar codex as well, especially if they involve Harlequins.
Same could be said that there could be one of the boxes that is for a new unit we have never seen before in the first wave of releases.
I still dream of the redesigned jetbike kit that will serve both eldar and the dark ones.
I'm not advocating that they visually vanilla-ize the Eldar. But added customizability/interchangability would be good to see outside of the various Marine lines. Obviously, Marines make it the easiest on modellers.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Odd that they'd redo the Talos in metal. Then again, they only have a certain amount of frames they can do a year. Maybe they had other more pressing plans?
Is it 100% confirmed that the Talos is actually going to be kept in the Dark Eldar codex? Or could it have been renamed into the "Slaughterer" and the general unit idea repurposed?
I am quite certain that it will reappear, too many rumours about that one, not many established units have been dropped anyway, esp. not from a small Codex trying to get bigger.
I am however not certain about it being metal, plastic would make more sense, as Frgt/10 said, it will be bigger and have more variants.
@Kanluwen: Good question. We should expect some new things, right? There's been little thought (that I've seen) given to what might not make it to the new book.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Odd that they'd redo the Talos in metal. Then again, they only have a certain amount of frames they can do a year. Maybe they had other more pressing plans?
Is it 100% confirmed that the Talos is actually going to be kept in the Dark Eldar codex? Or could it have been renamed into the "Slaughterer" and the general unit idea repurposed?
The rumors I have seen tag the "Slaughterer" as being a variant of the Ravager.
The more trusted rumormongers on Warseer seem to indicate that the Talos will be retained, for what it's worth.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry if I missed something, but there is going to be a new book isn't there?
I am assuming that there will but ...
Kroothawk listed a codex as part of the initial wave. But, no, there's no official word on anything. For all we know Jes could be about to unveil some adorable plush Dark Eldar that he's been knitting for that last two years.
1Hadhq, there were murmurings about nothing available to order from the DE range iirc.
And? Is it possible to get DE from GW yet? If so maybe they remove them not months before they plan to release new models. Actual date + pre order date mentioned in OP + delivery = ? 4 weeks minimum maybe to grab new models?
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry. thought you were referring to old stock not the new models
Thougth that too.
Since this official statement of 'jes+sculpts/models at GDUK' hit the interwebz,
its possible to assume there are new models to look at.
But, the old stock won't vanish.
Why should GW empty their shelves of DE and have you all stare at ? models ? 4-5 weeks ?
But the DE aren't on the shelves, so no pulling is needed.
Whenever the "incoming" shows, I bet they suggest that those who like the classic models snatch them up quickly via the convenient button link they put in the email.
Grimstonefire wrote:Imo combining the two jetbike kits would make each of them worse than if they were done separately.
Throwing everything into one kit might not be too clever, but having a core jetbike sprue, the having one sprue with dark eldar details and another with craftworld would show a definite technological link between the races, while emphasising their ideological differences.
Think of how the Chimera base sprue is used in hellhounds/deathsrikes, etc, or the defiler and soul grinder kits.
Probably save a bit of money, too (for GW, not for you).
But if they sold that as one box then that means you would be buying a load of plastic you wouldn't actually use, meaning it would be more expensive for you.
I can see the Talos staying metal, unless it gets quite a substantial buff, and is a larger model. More defiler sized. Also they need to determine more whether it's an MC or a vehicle. Not have some kind of hybrid that doesn't do the job of either.
Grimstonefire wrote:Imo combining the two jetbike kits would make each of them worse than if they were done separately.
I agree with Leggy: A common sprue of 5 jetbike cores with a second army-specific sprue of riders, weapons, and fairings would be easily doable and save GW some tooling costs.
I hope the warriors have options to take the splinter carbine instead of the splinter rifle. I don't see the usefulness of a rapid fire weapon on a unit that will probably be assaulting. Aren't DE the assaulty Eldar after all?
Noisy_Marine wrote:I hope the warriors have options to take the splinter carbine instead of the splinter rifle. I don't see the usefulness of a rapid fire weapon on a unit that will probably be assaulting. Aren't DE the assaulty Eldar after all?
Well, that depends upon who's on the receiving end of the assualt. DE warriors will assault, say, guardsmen, other Eldar, or the last three members of a Marine squad and do fine. But full-strength Orks or Marines? Not a good idea. But a weapon with 3 shots all the time at 18" range? Hell yeah they would always take that, unless it's a very expensive upgrade. Carbines would be better for point-defense in lance-spam lists, better for drive-bys, etc.
Gotta say, as a vanilla Eldar player I'm both encouraged and jealous to see the DE weapons becoming more effective. The splinter carbine is a particularly nice addition, really suits their tactical role. But it sure makes the old Guardian shuriken catapult (and even the Avenger one, for that matter) look outdated.
So the weapons look great... but what's the pricetag? Any guesses what the points-cost of a Dildar (you heard it here first, folks!) warrior with carbine would be?
Acording to the rumours posted by Kroothawk @OP there will be about 3 waves of releases (November, 1.5 wave and 2nd wave). If that's true -and I guess it is, because it's very usual- I think that the old models will not be discontinued until a new equivalent is hitting the stores. For example, Scourges. We haven't heard much about them, so we can guess they will be released in the latter waves. I think GW is smart enough to do cool enough rules to make the unit worthy so they can publish the codex and still sell the old fugly models for some months (or a year or whenever the reinforcement waves take place).
So: I think that after UKGD, the only discontinued items will be those who will have a new version in November. And I can imagine the photos in the codex showing the first wave models sharing battlefield with some of the old models. As we have seen in many codex before. Since we have been told that the full range has been redesigned, I might be totally wrong. But... it's GW, anything can happen.
del'Vhar wrote:Is there any ideas on what the Slaughterer is? (ie: armaments, how it differs from the Ravager)
Maybe an anti-light-infantry version?
Question about grotesques- I never played DEldar but a good friend of mine did back in 3rd edition. He didn't seem to like the grotesques because they were too slow in his opinion. Is that the general opinion these days? Could grotesques be something that would not be missed if they didn't make the new version?
del'Vhar wrote:Is there any ideas on what the Slaughterer is? (ie: armaments, how it differs from the Ravager)
Maybe an anti-light-infantry version?
That's what I think, given the name.
JOHIRA wrote:Question about grotesques- I never played DEldar but a good friend of mine did back in 3rd edition. He didn't seem to like the grotesques because they were too slow in his opinion. Is that the general opinion these days? Could grotesques be something that would not be missed if they didn't make the new version?
In the "cons" side, they are slow because they need to be leaded by an independant character to be able to aquire a Raider, end the character must be with them to make them able to use the vehicle. They also have a "Stupidity" rule, don't know the name in English. Also can be expensive.
In the "pros" side, they have special rules for toughness (a FNP rule, not the same USR that we can see in the rulebook), and special rules for the combar resolution.
I like having Grotesques in the army (fluff-wise). Not because they are great, they aren't. But I've always seen the DE like a 3-sided factions. Tha Kabals, the Wych cults, and the Haemonculi and their experiments (Talos and Grotesques). I think it makes DE "tastier", being an army with very few fluff to add some flavour to them. So I would like definitely to have them in the army, with better rules (or point value).
Grotesques work great with Wyches on a NON-Fearless unit. Rack up the wounds, and then make them auto-fail their LD test. And this even works on Marneus Calgar's special rule. As the choice is taken away from you by the Grotesque special rule =D
Hopefully they will get some kind of cool change to the rules, but most likely they will just make them fearless, give them USRFnP, and then some special rule akin to the one they already have.
Oshova
Post edited to remove unneeded slur on people, don't do that on dakka.
HBMC has pointed out many times before that GW is loathe to fine tune a list, make crappy units (or items) better and tone down the OTT ones.
Rather they seem hell bent of re-inventing the wheel for each codex and making a whole pile of new units lame, and others super +1 awesome for no particular reason other than they can.
The army as a whole often ends up fighing in a similar way, but with vastly different lists.
This army will still be High initiative, low toughness and fast, fast fast, fast with light vehicles.
But as this is almost a complete overhaul from scratch expect almost everything else to change.
I'd say good given the codex model W_G just described. As long as existing and potential DE players get the general playstyle that they expect, the rest will work itself out.
Manchu wrote:I'd say good given the codex model W_G just described. As long as existing and potential DE players get the general playstyle that they expect, the rest will work itself out.
I don't mind it if the Dark Eldar 'dex is fully fleshed out (like Guard) I just hope that they don't go OTT (like IG), but maybe Phil Kelly can do it justice...
Just Dave wrote:I just hope that they don't go OTT (like IG), but maybe Phil Kelly can do it justice...
Phil Kelly wrong the Wolves Codex.
The Wolves Codex has Jaws.
Figure out the rest yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:HBMC has pointed out many times before that GW is loathe to fine tune a list, make crappy units (or items) better and tone down the OTT ones.
Rather they seem hell bent of re-inventing the wheel for each codex and making a whole pile of new units lame, and others super +1 awesome for no particular reason other than they can.
Which isn't a terrible method of game design if you aim is to keep the game fresh... I just wish they'd tone it down a little. I've said on numerous occasions how I really like the 5th Ed Marine Codex (about the only 5th-Ed related thing I actually like - Orks don't count, they were end of 4th), but I like it in spite of itself. I like it because it is such a celebration of pendulum game design (one need only look at Terminators vs Assault Terminators in 4th and 5th to see that sudden sweeping change), not because it is a clear revision of a previously flawed Codex. I like it because it is so blatant (ret-conning new units into the fluff, tons of special characters), and lacks any attempt at subtlety. The Marine Codex is a parody, essentially, of everything GW stands for when it writes a Codex, and I love it because of that.
Conversely, Arby's Guard Codex did much the same thing, but came out soooooooooooooo dull. I found that book so tediously boring and so uninspiring that, well, the Valks I bought when it came out remain in their shrink wrap even today. It just killed my interest in Guard.
I hope the DE Codex is more like the Marine one than the Guard one.
Yeah, but he also wrote the Ork Codex and the Eldar Codex and those two seem to be weathering 5th edition better than some of the 5th ed codexes (Nids). I personally can forgive JAWS seeing how like his previous codexes you can still run multiple armies from one book.
On-Topic: I would be more excited to buy DE if I knew more of what's actually coming out. Rumors are fine and all, but I'd kill for something more concrete like what video games do when they have a release, or maybe even Magic the Gathering.
UsdiThunder wrote:On-Topic: I would be more excited to buy DE if I knew more of what's actually coming out. Rumors are fine and all, but I'd kill for something more concrete . . .
Let's cross our fingers that in nine more days, we'll have a mess of pics. And then Whitedragon can change his avatar!
Here's an interesting thought. If Harlequins are in the DE Codex and are upgraded to 5th ed standards how does that work with the Eldar Codex version. They are supposed to be the same unit just in different books.
If Harlequins are in the DE Codex and are upgraded to 5th ed standards how does that work with the Eldar Codex version. They are supposed to be the same unit just in different books.
Similar or identical units or wargear having different rules in different books would be nothing new. Example: Dark Angel Terminators with Stormshields, Codex Space Marine Terminators with Stormshields.
Manchu wrote:What kinds of new characters are expected? I'm guessing no psyker . . .
I hope Kruellagh gets better rules. I really love her model. The Emasculators title, however, gives me the shivers.
Is there a reason behind that, btw? My brother and I were discussing what might be in the new codex and we were dicussing psykers. Is there a backstory as to why there are no dark farseers or locks?
Likening it to the prophecy that a male sorceror would destroy Malekith, so no male sorcerors are allowed, is there a story behind the lack of psykers for DE?
Back on topic - if they don't get psykers, we were thinking that they may have some nice psychic defense or psychic-muting abilities/wargear. But I guess we'll have to see.
UsdiThunder wrote:On-Topic: I would be more excited to buy DE if I knew more of what's actually coming out. Rumors are fine and all, but I'd kill for something more concrete . . .
Let's cross our fingers that in nine more days, we'll have a mess of pics. And then Whitedragon can change his avatar!
I hope so, but somehow I don't think we're going to get "the big reveal" at GDUK, just a limited reveal. That GW announcement didn't really promise a lot, and I tend to think the big reveal will be saved for when the minis go up on preorder like usual. That makes much more business sense IMO...you want to give customers that outlet to buy, buy, buy when that big wave of excitement hits. Note that I'm not saying GW shouldn't do a more structured "drip" campaign leading up to the preorder. They should.
gorgon wrote:I hope so, but somehow I don't think we're going to get "the big reveal" at GDUK, just a limited reveal.
Maybe they learnt something from the whole 'mystery box' debacle from last year and have decided that stringing your customer base along with the promise of an announcement (only to give them nothing and deliver it via E-mail the day after the event) is a bad idea, and that they will, for once, use their annual trade show to show off new minis.
I was personally hoping for dark avatar and some sort of farseer like psycher, I always thought the avatar was almost more fitting in the dark eldar dex considering a blood sacrifice of a youg prince is required and I never thought it seemed very appropriate for the good elves, haha. Maybe I will convert my own ans use him as a stand in for the Talos....
Red Corsair wrote:I was personally hoping for dark avatar and some sort of farseer like psycher, I always thought the avatar was almost more fitting in the dark eldar dex considering a blood sacrifice of a youg prince is required and I never thought it seemed very appropriate for the good elves, haha. Maybe I will convert my own ans use him as a stand in for the Talos....
del'Vhar wrote:Question about grotesques- I never played DEldar but a good friend of mine did back in 3rd edition. He didn't seem to like the grotesques because they were too slow in his opinion. Is that the general opinion these days? Could grotesques be something that would not be missed if they didn't make the new version?
It's not that grotesques are necessary, its just a matter of DE having a lot less options than newer dexes, i really can't imagine GW would live them just with what they have now.
A new codex would need new models to sell, after all.
gorgon wrote:I hope so, but somehow I don't think we're going to get "the big reveal" at GDUK, just a limited reveal.
Maybe they learnt something from the whole 'mystery box' debacle from last year and have decided that stringing your customer base along with the promise of an announcement (only to give them nothing and deliver it via E-mail the day after the event) is a bad idea, and that they will, for once, use their annual trade show to show off new minis.
Personally, I'd structure the release with GDUK in mind for maximum hype synergies.
Manchu wrote:What kinds of new characters are expected? I'm guessing no psyker . . .
I hope Kruellagh gets better rules. I really love her model. The Emasculators title, however, gives me the shivers.
Is there a reason behind that, btw? My brother and I were discussing what might be in the new codex and we were dicussing psykers. Is there a backstory as to why there are no dark farseers or locks?
Likening it to the prophecy that a male sorceror would destroy Malekith, so no male sorcerors are allowed, is there a story behind the lack of psykers for DE?
Back on topic - if they don't get psykers, we were thinking that they may have some nice psychic defense or psychic-muting abilities/wargear. But I guess we'll have to see.
Psykers draw the attention of the Chaos powers by using their abilities. The DE are trying to avoid Slaneesh's attention where possible, and appease him/her/it with the souls of captured slaves when they have to. A DE psyker would merely act as a beacon, especially since DE don't have (at least in the current fluff) access to all of the Eldar stuff that protects their psykers from Chaotic incursions into their minds.
On topic:
A while back, I had heard a rumor of either a new weapon or a modification of the blaster with the following stats:
Assault 1, S6, Range 6", Melta, Lance
This would make it death on vehicles if you could get within 3", but the short range would provide some balance to that. Has anyone else heard that rumor or know where it might have come from?
Kanluwen wrote:Maybe it's on the rumored Slaughterer?
Makes a kind of sense, put it on a skimmer variant with light armor to offset the melta/lance bit?
I honestly don't know if it exists at all. It was a rumor I read quite a while ago, but I've never seen it repeated by anyone I consider reputable. Considering the crazy short range, I think it more likely to be an infantry weapon designed to go on an assault oriented squad; pop the vehicle and assault what comes out.
You mean to say it'll contain a rule or item or ability that in theory seems powerful but in practice is not that bad, but people still freak out over it?
Red Corsair wrote:I was personally hoping for dark avatar and some sort of farseer like psycher, I always thought the avatar was almost more fitting in the dark eldar dex considering a blood sacrifice of a youg prince is required and I never thought it seemed very appropriate for the good elves, haha. Maybe I will convert my own ans use him as a stand in for the Talos....
The Eldar are not 'good', per se.
Exactly. A lot of the Avatar lore seems to fit in with the ancient solstice legends of various cultures that would ceremonially sacrifice someone (possibly after giving them a promotion to 'king' for a day) to bring back the sun and warm weather fromt he depths of winter. Very appropriate for the Eldar, as many of these stories are from celtic roots.
I don't like that DE are now getting the same pointy hats that Eldar are known for. A step in the wrong direction in my book. Their current helmets are clumpy and too tall, but they had some potential that minor tweaks could have done wonders for...
I hope Goodwin got the new heads right... To me they look too Eldaresque, but I only have that one pic to base my opinion on.
I dont mean to split hairs here, but offering up the blood of a young prince to awaken a bloody handed god of war seems a bit "dark." I didnt say they should pull it from the craftworld eldar dex, but that it is definitely right up the ally for their dark kin. Have you all seen the dark elf blood altar....the totem of kain on the altar of blood looks just like a certain avatar from 40k...
As far as celtic lore and pagonistic sacrifice is concerned, just because GW decided to draw inspiration and make parallels to this doesn't mean they should limit themselves to it.
Uh, Corsair, it IS the same god. Khaine. He's the god of slaughter and murder in both mythologies. Isha, Kurnuous and Eldanesh are also in both settings.
I do hope that the DE are somehow connected to the traditional Eldar mythology as well. A bit more rootedness would be good for them- they are in fact closer to the condition of most pre-fall Eldar society. The craftworld types were the social deviants- puritans who took to the stars. It'll be great if we get a few more glimpses of pre-Fall Eldar society via the new DE fluff.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:DE don't particularly like psykers, but they do like sucking the souls out of them...
Expect anti psycher wargear.
Let's hope so! The whole dynamic of DE thinking that psykers are irresistibly fun to torture has been grossly underused. I hope they keep that bit of DE fluff... And expand on it!
i realy cant wait to seee the new dark eldar rules and models. i dont play Dark eldar, but if it follows old codexs it would be nice to see how it goes and to see how people play it. i would love to see mad players spamming Dark eldar just to have some new armies on the tabletop!
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:DE don't particularly like psykers, but they do like sucking the souls out of them...
Let's hope so! The whole dynamic of DE thinking that psykers are irresistibly fun to torture has been grossly underused. I hope they keep that bit of DE fluff... And expand on it!
Yeah, it's all fun and games until an Alpha-level Psyker loses control and gets possessed by a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh...
He mentions the short comings of the marine codex, that he likes it out of the humor of how blatant GW is at time in pushing models. He's obviously speaking in relativistic terms with a load of sarcasm, than to imply wanting them to be specifically like either. I'd like them to be more like Marines though; you know a thicker book with more fluff. Or maybe an army that is fully represented with models.
aka_mythos wrote:*sigh* Are you just here to try and annoy people?
This.
There's nothing wrong with the Marine Codex because it's flaws make it a better Codex, IMO. As I said, it is so blatant and so unsubtle that it can't be anything but good. It's the Codex equivalent of a movie that's so bad it's good.
Updated the (rules) summary with Waaagh_Gonads information.
Some tidbit by Harry on the warriors hanging from the Raider:
There seems to be an assumption that these 'hangers on' are transported troops. When I heard about them I assumed they were crew .... Raving lunatics that 'hang off' the side with knives in their teeth slashing at anything within range and hurling themselves at passing landspeeder storms in piratical boarding actions. Generally adding to the offensive capability of the ship rather than the ship being just a transporter.
Savnock wrote:Uh, Corsair, it IS the same god. Khaine. He's the god of slaughter and murder in both mythologies. Isha, Kurnuous and Eldanesh are also in both settings.
I do hope that the DE are somehow connected to the traditional Eldar mythology as well. A bit more rootedness would be good for them- they are in fact closer to the condition of most pre-fall Eldar society. The craftworld types were the social deviants- puritans who took to the stars. It'll be great if we get a few more glimpses of pre-Fall Eldar society via the new DE fluff.
Savnock wrote:Uh, Corsair, it IS the same god. Khaine. He's the god of slaughter and murder in both mythologies. Isha, Kurnuous and Eldanesh are also in both settings.
I do hope that the DE are somehow connected to the traditional Eldar mythology as well. A bit more rootedness would be good for them- they are in fact closer to the condition of most pre-fall Eldar society. The craftworld types were the social deviants- puritans who took to the stars. It'll be great if we get a few more glimpses of pre-Fall Eldar society via the new DE fluff.
Eldanesh is in fantasy? Where?
Probably in some obscure paragraph in an obscure novel or something
Nah I have no idea anyone beyond Khaine was mentioned
I hope the DE Codex is more like the Marine one than the Guard one.
Over-powered with a side order of redonkulous special characters?
Maybe make them Blood Angels with a side order of Montrous Creatures?
You know, back before GW re-did the Codex: CSM, I didn't have a problem with that Codex, even though I had not started playing Chaos yet. I loved how interesting and flexible the possible armies were. I didn't want that Codex nerfed; I wanted all the other Codices brought up to a comparable level of power and flavor.
So, I wouldn't have a problem with the DE Codex being equivalent in "cheese" to the recent Marine variant codices, not one problem at all.
Kroothawk wrote:Updated the (rules) summary with Waaagh_Gonads information.
Some tidbit by Harry on the warriors hanging from the Raider:
There seems to be an assumption that these 'hangers on' are transported troops. When I heard about them I assumed they were crew .... Raving lunatics that 'hang off' the side with knives in their teeth slashing at anything within range and hurling themselves at passing landspeeder storms in piratical boarding actions. Generally adding to the offensive capability of the ship rather than the ship being just a transporter.
Oh man that would be so funny! A unit assaults a ravager, DE player laughs *SURPRISE PIRATE BUTT SECKS!!!* and a bunch of warriors jump off counter charge the unit and the ravager runs off to safety. That would be really, really kool.
Kroothawk wrote:Updated the (rules) summary with Waaagh_Gonads information.
Some tidbit by Harry on the warriors hanging from the Raider:
There seems to be an assumption that these 'hangers on' are transported troops. When I heard about them I assumed they were crew .... Raving lunatics that 'hang off' the side with knives in their teeth slashing at anything within range and hurling themselves at passing landspeeder storms in piratical boarding actions. Generally adding to the offensive capability of the ship rather than the ship being just a transporter.
Oh man that would be so funny! A unit assaults a ravager, DE player laughs *SURPRISE PIRATE BUTT SECKS!!!* and a bunch of warriors jump off counter charge the unit and the ravager runs off to safety. That would be really, really kool.
No it would not.
It would make games needlessly frustrating.
Khaine is a firm supporter of Amnesty International. He approves of the Dark Eldar's murdering policies but can not be associated with their torturing policies so he just stays out of the whole thing.
It's a Morally Dubious Eldar God election year after all.
InventionThirteen wrote:I can't see why there wouldn't be an Avatar of Khaine, murder is his thang...
Dark Eldar love to torture and murder...
Is not actually true.
In both WHFB+40k, Khaine is the god of bloodshed, destruction, war, and murder.
It's why he's called "The Bloody Handed" and has the 'Khaela Mensha' in front of his name.
In FB, Khaine's worshiped by the Dark Elves in his guise of the patron of murder(but is also worshiped by human assassins, footpads, etc etc in that same guise). High Elves and Wood Elves both venerate/acknowledge Khaine as the deity of war.
The problem is that the Avatar is formed by a combination of the essence of Khaine and wraithbone contained within an eldar craftworld. The Dark Eldar do not use wraithbone... which is the first problem. The second problem is that the prince needed to summon the avatar is always an exarch... a practitioner of the art of warfare. The Dark Eldar have no equivalent as they do not dedicate themselves to warfare but to torture, which as far as I know is not as aspect of khaine, thus there is a shortage of people who are devoted to him (and thus a shortage of people who can raise the avatar).
I'd also chime in that Khaine is likely not too well-disposed towards the Dark Eldar.
When the Fall occurred, Khaine fought Slaanesh to the bitter end, letting She Who Thirsts shatter him into thousands of pieces rather than surrender.
The Dark Eldar, on the other hand, have decided on a firm policy of appeasement towards Slaanesh. They offer her souls to protect their own, and they essentially devalue Khaine's sacrifices for their race.
bhsman wrote:All of that would be true if we knew for sure anything about the fluff in a codex that's taken 12 years to be redone.
Reading the timeline will be funny
Dont they have less population than the tau? I cant see them doing too much in galactic affairs besides raiding worlds and killing people which is what everyone else does. Unless they pull some sort of Farsight on us and some DE found awesome technology or something
Initially, they only lived in Commorragh. However, recent fluff has referenced 'vast new cities' in the webway, meaning DE could now be the type to start fielding larger forces.
Ketara wrote:Initially, they only lived in Commorragh. However, recent fluff has referenced 'vast new cities' in the webway, meaning DE could now be the type to start fielding larger forces.
Great, so new DE cities will become the killing grounds instead of the Eldar Craftworlds just made up for a certain occasion, like Malantai and their Doom.
Ketara wrote:Initially, they only lived in Commorragh. However, recent fluff has referenced 'vast new cities' in the webway, meaning DE could now be the type to start fielding larger forces.
Great, so new DE cities will become the killing grounds instead of the Eldar Craftworlds just made up for a certain occasion, like Malantai and their Doom.
I can imagine we'll have SC from certain cities now.
Ketara wrote:Initially, they only lived in Commorragh. However, recent fluff has referenced 'vast new cities' in the webway, meaning DE could now be the type to start fielding larger forces.
The anthology "Fear the Alien" has a pretty good short story about the Dark Eldar and was probably written with the new DE 'dex in mind.
It is also interesting to note that they had grenade launchers on their Raiders.
Fateweaver wrote:A week when JG talks more about DE and shows off some of his sculpts. Trust me, Dakka and Seer will crash that day (and all other 40k forums).
Melissia wrote:Lol, I should warn BigRed to make sure BoLS doesn't crash that day.
This looks interesting. I can't wait to burn them to a crisp and melta all their vehicles.
Ha. Raiders are really losing their edge with all the melta floating around these days. It's what..A 4+ to Pen with a plasma gun? Even a heavy bolter can take down a raider...
Scottywan82 wrote:I'd also chime in that Khaine is likely not too well-disposed towards the Dark Eldar.
When the Fall occurred, Khaine fought Slaanesh to the bitter end, letting She Who Thirsts shatter him into thousands of pieces rather than surrender.
The Dark Eldar, on the other hand, have decided on a firm policy of appeasement towards Slaanesh. They offer her souls to protect their own, and they essentially devalue Khaine's sacrifices for their race.
There was that line in Battle Missions about the Dark Eldar worshipping Khaine. Again, this isn't a codex with repeatedly established fluff, it's Dark Eldar. I'd say a 'Dark Avatar' is still possible at this point.
Melissia wrote:Lol, I should warn BigRed to make sure BoLS doesn't crash that day.
This looks interesting. I can't wait to burn them to a crisp and melta all their vehicles.
Ha. Raiders are really losing their edge with all the melta floating around these days. It's what..A 4+ to Pen with a plasma gun? Even a heavy bolter can take down a raider...
But that's why you take nightshields on everything!!!!! Then everything your enemy fires at you has 6 inches less for range, this makes melta guns pretty useless and the melta pistol things the Sang Guard have completely useless! I really hope that the new DE have something to actually show that they have nightshields
bhsman wrote:I'd say a 'Dark Avatar' is still possible at this point.
The currently existing rumours say "not so much". So are you saying it's still possible in a theoretical way or have you heard something?
The big problem with an Avatar is that it's stuck walking from the deployment zone. While nearly everything else in the DEldar army is mobile. Back when I played CrEldar I didn't like using the Avatar because it was so difficult to keep him caught up with the rest of my army- I can't imagine how much more of a pain it would be with the even faster Dark Eldar.
Fluffwise, I have real trouble imagining the Dark Eldar leaders would sacrifice themselves to awaken it for just one battle. I think if you're really dead-set on a Dark Avatar, you'd be better off converting a Talos to fit the part. Perhaps you could say the Dark Eldar captured bits of an avatar from some destroyed craftworld and filled in the gaps with bits from some destroyed wraithlords or something. And forced a bonesinger to make wings so it can hover (and look scary demonic). The difference between Avatar and Talos stat lines could be explained by the Dark Eldar sacrificing unwilling captured slaves to it rather than volunteer exarchs.
I dont really like the idea of a Dark Avatar but maybe they can do it a lot faster so they could do it mid battle? Much like a Greater Daemon possession?
Talked to my local store guy this weekend and he informs me that this upcomeing DE release will actually just be a "preview" for next years actual release. He has always been very reliable with rumors, and gets alot of the models and codexes in weeks before they are released.
Im no troll, nor am I trying to blow smoke up anyones a$$, but I really believe that GW is just going to give us a taste of whats to come in Nov and not an actual release. There attempt at building a big buyer base before what equates to releasing a whole new race really with how long they have left poor DE dead on the table. Smart move and still exciting if you ask me.
But anyway take it or leave it, idc if you believe it or not.
Did he say where he heard that from? Or at least what such a conjecture is based upon?
If that's true then what is November's real release? Cause a 'preview' of a release doesn't really count as a release... In fact it's right up on the GW website that the preview for DE will be at GDUK, in a week... So is this source of yours implying that November is going to be some sort of 'second wave preview'?
Not trying to troll or anything, but this sounds like some pretty dubious hearsay.
Ill get all the details tomorrow when I go to the shop. I live 10min from my local store . But it sounds like he heard it from his suppliers at GW. When he asked if he would be getting any of the stuff for his black box display on the new DE release in Nov thats what they told him. Hes not the kind of man to jerk anyones chain either, very professional. But I'll get more details tomorrow. Just rumors take with salt of course he could be wrong and those clowns at GW are just messing with them. ing with there consumers seems to be GWs buisness strategy lately .
I went into a GW on the weekend, and answered the customary "So what do you play" question with "Marines until Dark Eldar come out"
The redshirt excitedly said something about them coming in november, though I have no idea if he had heard that from a "source" or just from reading forums etc.
Laughing God wrote:Talked to my local store guy this weekend and he informs me that this upcomeing DE release will actually just be a "preview" for next years actual release.
I am quite happy with a small test release of 6 plastic kits, 3 metal kits, three blisters, a special item and the Codex. We need more test releases like that Does anyone really believe that next Saturday, Jes will preview miniatures of the next year? Believe me, it's a November release with more following next year.
I thought '3 metal kits' was corrected to '2 metal kits'.
My prediction is that Jes will reveal them on Games Day and 'eavy metal/official pics will appear on the official website on Monday. Just a guess, but I don't think GW will want blurry camera phone shots floating around for more than few days.
JohnHwangDD wrote:It's entirely possible that November is LotR, and DE is Jan or Feb 2011.
It's also possible they'll just say "whoops, sorry, just kidding, here's another Marine codex instead." But I think the November DE, January GK timeline is more probable.
Melissia wrote:It's also possible they'll just say "whoops, sorry, just kidding, here's another Marine codex instead."
Yeah didn't you hear that the DE are actually one of the two founding chapters that have been expunged from record. They are now coming back to reclaim their birthright.
But seriously I am really excited that a new codex is finally coming out, I thought the DE were down and out for the count.
All these rumors threads can finally be forgotten.
JohnHwangDD wrote:It's entirely possible that November is LotR, and DE is Jan or Feb 2011.
It's also possible they'll just say "whoops, sorry, just kidding, here's another Marine codex instead." But I think the November DE, January GK timeline is more probable.
I'm pretty sure it's actually BT, DA, BA, C:SM, then DE and GK =p
Dark Eldar
1. Lifting the veil on the Dark Eldar project with Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly.
2. 'Eavy Metal painted miniatures, artwork, concept drawings, 3UPs, plastic frames all on display.
3. Dark Eldar video presentation
grak wrote:I thought '3 metal kits' was corrected to '2 metal kits'.
My prediction is that Jes will reveal them on Games Day and 'eavy metal/official pics will appear on the official website on Monday. Just a guess, but I don't think GW will want blurry camera phone shots floating around for more than few days.
The Heavy Metal team will have surely finished painting, the varnish dried, and brushes washed and ready for the next project. The cameraman will ahve done his bit and the post production stuff likewise.
If they don't want blurry pics floating around there is a very simple solution...
Dark Eldar
1. Lifting the veil on the Dark Eldar project with Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly.
2. 'Eavy Metal painted miniatures, artwork, concept drawings, 3UPs, plastic frames all on display.
3. Dark Eldar video presentation
Wow, nice. Actually more than I expected. Didn't think we'd see much of #2 beyond artwork and drawings.
And it's amusing the degree to which some of you guys twist yourselves into knots trying to make the release something other than November.
Dark Eldar
1. Lifting the veil on the Dark Eldar project with Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly.
2. 'Eavy Metal painted miniatures, artwork, concept drawings, 3UPs, plastic frames all on display.
3. Dark Eldar video presentation
Wow, nice. Actually more than I expected. Didn't think we'd see much of #2 beyond artwork and drawings.
And it's amusing the degree to which some of you guys twist yourselves into knots trying to make the release something other than November.
Although I agree with you, gorgon, I also think it's amusing the degree of certainty that anyone has regarding something that has been on the backburner for so long when all they have to go on is, "some new dark eldar miniatures" and a few rumors.
JohnHwangDD wrote:It's entirely possible that November is LotR, and DE is Jan or Feb 2011.
It's also possible they'll just say "whoops, sorry, just kidding, here's another Marine codex instead." But I think the November DE, January GK timeline is more probable.
What's that? New Black Templars Codex with recut sprues?
So, who wants to predict that the Dark Eldar model prices are going to finally match the rest of their 40K peers (See: Jack up everything's price by $5-$15 USD)? Come on, we can't have a $30-ish box of 10 Metal Models, that'd be crazy. Here comes boxes of five wyches for $25 USD.
Just how many of the special characters do people think will remain? I imagine the Incubi one and Asrubael Vect are pretty much givens for staying in, as is Lillith (what with being in pretty much half of all the books that involve Dark Eldar). Urien and the Executioner also seem pretty sure-thing, Urien as a named Haemonculi and the Executioner as a unit-upgrade for a single Mandrake unit. Kruellagh (sp) is the only one I can think of being swapped out or removed.
Bloodwin wrote:I'd be very surprised if the Talos is metal, all of the 'dreadnought type' models are plastic now. I could see a 'named' Talos as being metal but even that would be stretching it.
Minsc wrote: Kruellagh (sp) is the only one I can think of being swapped out or removed.
I am just as excited to see some new faces as anyone else but I really hope K stays in. For one thing, the model is great. I think it's one of the best female figs GW has produced, maybe the best in 40k. I also like her fluff. I admit, of course, that her rules need some development as she is one of the most uniformly derided characters of the current dex.
H.B.M.C. wrote:This is a big deal for GW. They have to make DE work for them as a viable force (from a sales perspective). It's actually a huge risk.
I'm inclined to agree but only because GW is so risk-averse. Even if the DE release is truly of the scope we're expecting and it goes well, as it almost definitely will as long as the models aren't outright gak, I wouldn't expect to see GW taking more "big risks" along these lines. Hence an upcoming GK book while there are naught but shadows of rumors regarding Sisters.
In other news, I just read the new DE story in Fear the Alien that Kanluwen mentioned earlier. It doesn't contain anything earth shattering so, if BL authors are told anything about new releases, I wouldn't bank on DE vets having to change that much up regarding their current builds and strats.
Manchu wrote: Even if the DE release is truly of the scope we're expecting and it goes well .... I wouldn't expect to see GW taking more "big risks" along these lines.
It's more of a test. If this goes well then they know that they can put more effort into the fringe armies if they make a big deal about them when they come out. If it doesn't, we'll see a shift in the release schedule that brings Marines and Eldar up, but shifts Necrons back and Sisters into oblivion (Tau stay where they are as they're generally seen as a 'risk free' release). If it works, expect more effort to be put into the Necron re-release than would have otherwise happened.
Minsc wrote: Kruellagh (sp) is the only one I can think of being swapped out or removed.
I am just as excited to see some new faces as anyone else but I really hope K stays in. For one thing, the model is great. I think it's one of the best female figs GW has produced, maybe the best in 40k.
Are you mixing Kruellagh with Lylith?
IIRC Krue looks like some creepy Gary Morely sculpted harpy, whereas Lylith is a lithe Wyche with a cool trident.
Minsc wrote: Kruellagh (sp) is the only one I can think of being swapped out or removed.
I am just as excited to see some new faces as anyone else but I really hope K stays in. For one thing, the model is great. I think it's one of the best female figs GW has produced, maybe the best in 40k.
Are you mixing Kruellagh with Lylith?
IIRC Krue looks like some creepy Gary Morely sculpted harpy, whereas Lylith is a lithe Wyche with a cool trident.
Lilith is huge, tho. She's just about the biggest Elfgirl GW sells.
puma713 wrote:Although I agree with you, gorgon, I also think it's amusing the degree of certainty that anyone has regarding something that has been on the backburner for so long when all they have to go on is, "some new dark eldar miniatures" and a few rumors.
I hear you, but enough rumormongers I trust say it's November and a normal army release, not some machination to trick the customers. To paraphrase Freud, "sometimes a Space Hulk is just a Space Hulk."
I hate the expression "where there's smoke, there's fire", because that just lends credence to ANYTHING said. However, in this environment that GW has created, when reliable people share a little something I take that to mean they probably know a little bit more that they aren't sharing. I think we could know a little more than we do, but people are playing by the rules these days and trying not to get sources in trouble.
Back more properly on DE, it'd be really interesting to be at GDUK to hear what Jes (and maybe Phil?) has to say about them, provided they're able to talk semi-freely.
I think Lelith could definitely use a new sculpt. She might have been awesome 12 years ago but in 2010, she'd look better in the cartoonish PP galleries (Cryx, anyone?) than among a more serious, scary DE line.
Are there any whispers about which ICs we'll see? There was so much talk about the SW ones but I've yet to read a thing about who will make the DE book. A sign that there will be little change in the line up perhaps?
Manchu wrote:I think Lelith could definitely use a new sculpt. She might have been awesome 12 years ago but in 2010, she'd look better in the cartoonish PP galleries (Cryx, anyone?)
Hmm... Yeah, that'd work. PP is 30mm, so, she'd be a good match to convert up as an alternate Deneghra.
I'm hoping someone leaks the codex soon. Hey, I don't want to encourage piracy, but I'm dying to know units, points values, special rules, etc. to start making sense of all this. While I'll expect skimmer fleets to still be a viable primary tactic, I want to know what tricks they have and plan my preorder.
Same thing is now going to happen with Eldar and the Dark Eldar codex. Again, full disclaimer here, I have not seen a copy of the codex proper, don’t have, want, and never will have the .PDF or a bootleg version. What I have seen are confirmed stat lines and rules for certain models, and my mind is already in motion with ideas.
I called it before other news 40K sites posted it- harlequins are and will be in the Dark Eldar codex, and they are. Far from “broken” they are at least now updated for 5th and blow the Eldar ‘quins out of the water. Why play the older stuff, when I can play the newer stuff? Why can’t I proxy a farseer or phoenix lord as a DEHQ? Why can’t I use my rangers as warriors? Wraithlords as a telos, vypers as ravagers, and well jetbikes as jetbikes? Fritz playing a count as army?
I’ve got enough Eldar junk to do it, but if I was starting back over, I’d be writing and building a list to work with both codexes- Eldar and Dark Eldar. Period...
The next question is will harlequins “work” in the DE codex? By this I mean as an army on their own as in max out the total number of clowns and come up with a delivery system for them to crush other 5th edition armies. I’ve done this in the current Eldar codex, it works, and I’ll still be running this variant, and the good news here is that the Eldar ‘dex isn’t changing any time soon. As for DE clowns, not enough info yet there so I don't know if it is totally viable- I still need to see certain units, and how their psychic powers stack up. DE psychic powers? Yes, they said no to drugs and are apparently master psykers now also. Eldrad cries another tear, and Tyranids get smacked around a bit more- hey your raider is open topped- I can SEE you, you can fire, flame, punk me, but I can’t use my hive mind mojo on you…
No idea if it's valid, but it should provide for some good discussion. Case in point: Dark Eldar - master psykers. You may begin.
Dark Eldar Psykers? Although this interests me as a psyker lover, it depresses me as a Dark Eldar player. Tehy've always appeared to me to have shyed away from their psyker cousins, and turned more towards brute force, and torture.
So I'm hoping only the Harleys are psychic, and the Dark Eldar themselves are more anti-psychic. Maybe they could become the "New Sisters of Battle"?
Eh, I'd have preferred they be the consummate anti-psykers, but it's not surprising, to say the least. Good to hear Harlequins are updated to not be overcosted and nerfed by the Rending rule change. Hopefully they serve a distinct role separate from the wyches.
Well that's depressing, from what you posted were losing drugs and suddenly becoming just as good as craftworld eldar. Hopefully the rest of the codex will be good enough to ignore that.
Losing drugs sounds totally unrealistic. Maybe they work differently but I seriously doubt that the Dark Eldar aren't going to have drugs, especially after just reading that new DE story. Also, DE psykers? Really, think about that guys. That implies that just about everything we know about DE (which isn't much) is going to be retconned.
I would find it very surprising to see drugs taken from the DE. Maybe its the new wave of making everything similar but drrugs were a really cool thing that made the DE different. Plus, I would miss the chance of ODing on drugs - its sucks when it happens but it is also pretty funny.
Manchu wrote:Losing drugs sounds totally unrealistic. Maybe they work differently but I seriously doubt that the Dark Eldar aren't going to have drugs, especially after just reading that new DE story. Also, DE psykers? Really, think about that guys. That implies that just about everything we know about DE (which isn't much) is going to be retconned.
Where are those salt macros?
Counterpoint: You shouldn't always believe everything that comes from the Black Library? As you admit, there isn't a whole lot for them to redo, they might as well approach this from a new angle while keeping some stuff (Commoragh, raiding aspect, etc.) the same, while changing others (no psykers, drug use/combat drugs). We won't know until someone outside of GW gets a hold of the codex.
^ yes, the fluff needs to be more elaborate. The old codex is just to thin for my liking. A big part of fluff will make me like the codex more. (Fluff is important to me.)
There is a lot of color in the old dex. That's one thing that I've noticed that has not gotten better with the new books. In preparation for this release, I went out and bought the current DE dex in large part to have the color scheme and conversion references. I am excited to see what if any new schemes are presented in the new dex but doubt it will have the same amount of variety.
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bhsman wrote:Counterpoint: You shouldn't always believe everything that comes from the Black Library?
That's a good point. A 40k Marine and a BL Marine are two very different animals, just to give the most glaring example. But the same team keeps an eye on the IP development across the board. I can't see BL putting out a short story full of references to DE using combat drugs on the eve of publsihing a dex where they are retconned into oblivion.
Those models are great. Loving the wicked take on back-fins, the specialized headgear that is sort of reminiscent of Aspect Warriors, and the weaponry. The poses are great too, decent dynamicism despite the planted feet.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, 'cause you can really get a good feel for the detail in such a terrible picture Athera.
Are you always so acerbic?
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
I'm not sure if I like them or not, kind of hard to tell. From what I can see, they seem to have a good design and actually look evil, instead of having the appearance of saturday morning villians.
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
I rather like how they look.
I think I might like how they look painted up as Slaanesh Chaos Warriors. But for a sci-fi unit? Not off of that picture.
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
I rather like how they look.
I think I might like how they look painted up as Slaanesh Chaos Warriors. But for a sci-fi unit? Not off of that picture.
As opposed to all the other units running around with medieval weapons in plate armor? I think you may be playing the wrong game. Flames of war is back a few pages.
I'll bite and admit that from what I can see in the pic, I'm in love and will buy a lot. Seems to be that incubi visually invoke daemons to scare the pants off people (I assume). I really like the aesthetic. Reminds me of a fusion of eldar, chaos and the most recent Predator flick. Cool beans!
If those minis look as good as I think they do, and the rest of the range can hold a candle to them... Slap some bondage gear on me and call me "dark". I'm in.
Yeah, these are pretty sexy. Incubi were probably the best models in the old line and these destroy them.
They just clearly have a coherent design concept behind them as opposed to "Well...it's a halberd but in space...a space halberd".
Can't wait to see if they carry the mask idea through other models.
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
I rather like how they look.
I think I might like how they look painted up as Slaanesh Chaos Warriors. But for a sci-fi unit? Not off of that picture.
As opposed to all the other units running around with medieval weapons in plate armor? I think you may be playing the wrong game. Flames of war is back a few pages.
Rate a troll says 1/10. Now run along. The current topic is the models HBMC posted a pic off.
Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
I rather like how they look.
I think I might like how they look painted up as Slaanesh Chaos Warriors. But for a sci-fi unit? Not off of that picture.
As opposed to all the other units running around with medieval weapons in plate armor? I think you may be playing the wrong game. Flames of war is back a few pages.
Rate a troll says 1/10. Now run along. The current topic is the models HBMC posted a pic off.
Yes, we know. They are rather nice models which signal a good new direction for the model line!
Skipping over the irony of HBMC getting upset because he's had a negative reaction to posting something interesting for a change...
Those Incubi look very promising. The photo may not be very good, but you still get a pretty clear idea of what they look like. I see they've gone for Uruk-Hai swords, which look pretty brutal - interesting choice. Will the new DE be Eldar that have gone Orky? The only thing that's unclear is the backpiece, which seems a bit over-elaborate. I'm also unsure about whether the devil horns work. Seems a rather literal interpretation of 'Incubis'.
Wow. Those totally fit in with the way I imagine Dark Eldar should be, at least from what little I can tell. Props to GW for trying out something more than "spikes=evil, done". They're just intimidating and brutal. Screw Eldar, I think Dark Eldar are going to be my brand of Space Elf.
Love love love. From what I can make out, the leg armor is like that of eldar but much more broken by thin, peaked segments, making them look evil.
The back fins are not only noticeable now, but actually add a lot to the model!
The torso armor is very similar to that of current Eldar, which subtly accentuates the the relation.
The sword manages to look sci-fi with an amazing mix of elegance and brutality. I'm loving the slight curve in the middle of the blade.
The face plate reminds me of the Harlequin Death Jester only more exaggerated and intimidating.
I'm not a fan of the horns, as they add some Chaos flavor, but they also succeed in marking the Incubi as royal bodyguards, so I forgive them.
Oh my sweet god FINALLY!!! Even though the pictures are really blurry you can see amazing work there. The only reason I check 40k rumor forums anymore are for the hopes that Dark Eldar would get redone with amazing models like this and drag me kicking and screaming back into the game. Jes Goodwin....I Love/Hate you!! I just know they are finally going to be a viable army....only took G-dub 12 years!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I lobve the fact they have the same shaped Eldar Guardian heads we all love so much! Fricking awsome looking mini's! Those have to be Jess or Juan's work.
I like the torso armour. I like the spike on the knee armour. I like the back fins, and they're a fantastic improvement over the old Incubi "fists on poles for some reason". I LOVE the swords. Without taking the army as a whole into account, I preferred the old halbered as weapons. There's something regal and stately-looking about bodyguards with halberds. But then Dark Eldar aren't supposed to look regal and stately-looking, are they? So the new swords are absolutely perfect for them, and that hooked end is such a great touch I'm surprised we haven't seen it before. I wonder if that motif will carry through to other Dark Eldar weapons.
I like the head in profile (as much as I can see of it anyway), but I hate the horns. I probably won't play Dark Eldar but if I did, I'd cut those off.
Personally I'm not sure what to make of them. I like the longswords, but I'm not so hot on the horns. Then again, they are blurry (as I said), and we don't really know what the new aesthetic of the Dark Eldar line will be (assuming it has changed at all), so judging them in a vacuum is essentially pointless. All I can say is I like the swords, and the stalks on their backs remind me of Guardians.
Are they 'Eldar-y' enough? Dunno. Guess we'll see on the weekend when Jes gives us some real pictures.
Swords are cool though...
Athera wrote:Excuse me for not fawning over it like you were expecting. But, really? You're going to post a not very good picture that makes the models look terrible and then you get offended when someone points out that the models might look terrible? Really?
High-larious. You really are. You're a piceless new addition to the milieu that is Dakka.
No, I didn't epect you to fawn over them, or even like them. What I was epecting was a little more... how shall I put this... careful or perhaps even reserved judgement, especially given the (lack of) quality in the picks. I'd be just as hard as someone fawning over them as I would on anyone dismissing them out of hand.
The simple fact is we don't have enough information to come to an educated conclusion, so declaring them 'terrible' is about useful now as declaring them 'good' or 'chocolate' or 'parakeet'. We simply don't know enough, and can't see enough.
Although now I see that you are the type of person Jes Goodwin was talking about when he got annoyed at his Harli pics leaking online - the type of person who unilaterally declares something to be 'horrible' based upon terrible photographs and without actually seeing the product completely.
Athera wrote:And yes, I'm the "Pat Sajak of Fat Paystacks" when it comes to being acerbic.
Neither know nor care what that is, so I'll just take it as a yes.
Tailgunner wrote:Skipping over the irony of HBMC getting upset because he's had a negative reaction to posting something interesting for a change...
I agree. The Incubi weren't great but they were ceratinly a cut above most of the models in the DE range. I liked the idea of 'Dark Scorpions' as well, almost like the order could have been founded by Ahara (or however you spell his name).
But this comes back to how much (and how little) we know about the new DE. We only have the tiniest amount of information on what they reworked fluff is, and how different (or similar) it might be to the current DW fluff. I mean, a page ago we were told that they now have psykers, so making any firm judgements or statements at this point is essentially impossible until we have more information.
Just 4 more days people. We waited 12 years, we can wait another 4 days.
Athera wrote: The current topic is the models HBMC posted a pic off.
Indeed.
So..
A. Ta for the picture, very cool. B. Let's not be rude to each other, I appreciate the incharacter roleplay aspect of this happening in every DE thread, but let's do better here please. ta.
A million thanks for the pic! The first really new minis that we see since the 2nd wave of DE releases in... 1999? 2000?
They look very promising, still a bit spiky, but in a more "insectoid" way. It has a mix of roots that seem to look good together. I'm eager to see a better pic with all the details. The horns are a bit odd. I can't see in the pic if that helmet still has it's splinter pistol attached. And that blades look painful
Anyway, I basically agreed with Shuma that they looked very samurai and that I liked them, despite being blurry as all hell. Really looking forward to that big reveal on Sunday. Or Friday. Or whenever the hell it is.
Rymafyr wrote:The text at the bottom of the pic seems to be French...Not that I know a lot...
"Les Incubis sort ......... du ......... ........" Obviously just a description and weapon name.
You had it right, it's just a basic desciption in french, probably for next WD.
After seeing the full picture posted above I can decrypt it. Not sure of the last word, terribly blurry, but its lenght and blobby shape seems to match.
Les incubes sont équipés de redoutables épées.
So :
The incubi are equipped with fearsome swords.
The overall look seems good and dynamic. Too much blur to have an actuall opinion. But if there will be a consistent announcement in GDUK, we may have a blast.
Well, I feel sorry for Jes and will post the pics in the summary only after the presentation on GDUK out of respect of Jes and Phil.
The miniatures look good, in the expected style. And if it is a sign that I can use Dark Eldar kits to convert alternatives for my Dark Elf Warriors, I welcome that. BTW horns have been seen before on Drazhar.
I think they look cool, but ultimately its not just about their detail, it comes down to how they fit the new feel and look of the army. If you only compare them to the old look, you're comparing them to something over a decade old.
Yeah, I guess I feel sorry for him, too. I can kinda see why he'd be pissed, if he's been working on these things for years and kept it a big surprise all that time...
It hasn't affected me at all, though. If anything I'm even more excited than I was, having actually seen something. Nonetheless, Sorry Jes.
I like 'em overall. The armor appears more "eldar" than spiky, and the horned helmets could work. Although I like back fins, I'm not sure I like those. I might have liked slimmer swords better, but I do like the "Uruk-hai" style.
The impact of the image, I must say, is impressive. Looks to be an ungodly amount of detail possible. I believe I heard these were to still be metal?
Proportionately way better than the old Incubi. The old ones had ridiculously skinny waists; even space elf's would have found the armor tight.
I'm ok with 'punishers', or whatever they will now be called, being freaking huge executioner type great swords. I actually like the horns as they are not grossly disproportionate with the head of the model unlike CSM.
AlexHolker wrote:They look like Dark Eldar bodyguards that succeeded in looking intimidating, rather than trying to look intimidating and failing utterly.
I'm just happy to see that their look is intimidating while not too "Beefy". It makes me wonder what they are going to do for Wyches. Mayhaps they will make them a *little* less Feral?
Ya know, the actual spikyness of these new Incubi being actual spikes instead of curved blades is OK w/ me. The armor is definately layered, which adds to the edges looking very spiky also. I also don't have a problem thinking these will still retain their +3 armor save.
As for no 'mandibles' etc. I think everyone needs to drop what they currently know about the DE fluff. While we know some certainties we may all be surprised at the retconning that will take place. I'm looking forward to seeing what's changed, good or bad.
I'm going to side with the comment on reserving judgment till we have better than one blurry photo to go by.
I'm also going to side with the MOD comment not to post a wish list for rules or models, a list of what I plan to buy, a pile of stale jokes about GW trying to deceive us, a bunch of random speculation about what's coming based on the one blurry photo and handful of rumors or something else completely unrelated altogether.
Finally, here's a thought that is related. GW has NOT made any significant changes to the availability of the current Dark Eldar product line. It is still readily available including the same Battleforce that's been out since 1998. So the timing on switching from the current range to the new one will be fairly slim and it may be a case where many of the existing models are available in the "collectors" section of the store for that army for some time to come.
is definately layered
It's "definitely", a form of "finite", not "definately". I don't know what the hell that is or from whence it came, but I see it an awful lot on game forums. There's no "a" in definite, definitely, infinite or finite.
The Incubi look like they could be really cool. There is some details to them that look almost chaos though...makes me wonder what is the new story exactly.
I may just throw one snippet into the ring .... just to give us something else to talk about.
I did hear that Jes had got involved with writting the book. I think he might have had something to do with writing the background section along with Phil. If that is right then I think (and I could be wrong about this) that this may be the first time he has done that since he wrote the original Skaven background.
That's a good thing. I think this revamped Dark Eldar line really is Jes' 'baby' (so to speak), even moreso than when he wrested control of the Eldar and Tyranid model lines and 'fixed' the mistakes that 3rd Ed made with a number of the models (Tyrants, Carnifexes, Aspect Warriors).
So why shouldn't he have his say in not only what they look like but who they are as a people?
I like the general shape of those Incubi. Eldar enough without making them Scorpion clones and grimdark enough to open up some nice conversion possibilities, Executioners and/or Slaneeshi Chosen being the most obvious.
Henners91 wrote:The biggest retcon they're going to do is that if an Eldar gets wet, more Eldar spring off of him.
And if those Eldar eat after midnight... they become Dark Eldar.
that only works if the current eldar line is fuzzy... i guess that only applies to banshees then.
i like the new look. yeah, it's a chaosy space elf uruk hai look but i think it works at least initially. since the whole line is getting a redo, i'd have to reserve final judgement for when the entire line is available for viewing to see if the aesthitic works on a 1500pt and up scale.
I like the design approach a lot. It keeps some spikyness but with a more subdued, almost cactusy organic approach. It's a far more pleasing look, IMO.
It looks like some of the swords have an open handgrip up the blade to make it almost like that damn klingon style weapon when they want to. I'm really excited about these models actually...very excited....
I'm not surprised Jes wants in on the book, if I'd been working on a project like this for so long, I would want to get my fingers in all the pies to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if Jes and Phil sat up to the small hours talking about how the fluff will work, and the models will look etc.
I love them, I liked the old ones for what they were but none of them were the right scale and their waists were super thin.... I think with clearer pics they will have a more samurai w/ Oni death mask feel then chaos feel. I am personally hoping for Ar-ha or however its spelled to be their only phoenix lord and founder of the incubi.
Obviously my response is preliminary due to the blurryness of the pic. However I think I see enough to say that I personally don't like the KISS look. The back pack spikes are too big, the boots are too 80's metal looking. I was hoping for a more toned down "subtle" approach. Like the pictures of the guys jumping off the raiders in that white dwarf picture.
I kind of like the horns and the stretch cleaver/sword.
Scottywan82 wrote:Yeah, having Ahra, the Father of Scorpions as a special character would be sick. Incubi count as troops? Please please?
I'd settle for Incubi are scoring units.
Betting these are metals, though, I'm also gonna bet they're going to be expensive! While it'd be nice to have them count as troops or scoring troops, more than a unit or two are going to be pricy.
generalgrog wrote: I was hoping for a more toned down "subtle" approach. Like the pictures of the guys jumping off the raiders in that white dwarf picture.
hey guys, I heard Some dark eldar will 'power up' and get some kind of special abilties as they kill enemies. This can be the result of some updated combat drugs rules.
generalgrog wrote:Obviously my response is preliminary due to the blurryness of the pic. However I think I see enough to say that I personally don't like the KISS look. The back pack spikes are too big, the boots are too 80's metal looking. I was hoping for a more toned down "subtle" approach. Like the pictures of the guys jumping off the raiders in that white dwarf picture.
I'd expect a more toned down look on the rank and file of the army. Elites are usually where the craziness of an army's models shine. Take the blinged up Sternguard veterans for example.
Well not sure about your pricing but I thought that GW were supposed to be moving more into plastics.
So it is a tad surprising that they may be metal.
Scrazza wrote:hey guys, I heard Some dark eldar will 'power up' and get some kind of special abilties as they kill enemies. This can be the result of some updated combat drugs rules.
Wasn't this part of that huge Warseer troll where they "leaked" a fake DE codex back in April? Or it's just a reference to how they work in Soulstorm.
neither of them, I heard it from someone from my local Games Workshop. I know, I know...I may be spreading false rumors here so...sorry if I am. I am just sharing that what I have been told.
This might seem a little off topic, but I've been waiting for this release for a long time.
When the pre-order stuff is finally available, what is the quickest method of pre-ordering, as far as how long it takes to receive the product? Would that be ordering directly from the GW web site, or ordering through a local store? Does it make any real difference?
).
ing with there consumers seems to be 
.
(went to UVA)
