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Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/20 13:00:23


Post by: IvanTih


Emperors Faithful wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Kogwar wrote:But it is in a galaxy far away with humanity and other humanoids developing and coming to power long before us but at the same rate.


Since Tyranids are believed to be from outside our own galaxy, perhaps somewhere between "long long ago" and "the dark future of the 41st Millenium" the Tyranids came along and simply Ate star wars?



A nice pedophile terminator picture!


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 07:46:38


Post by: xXSir MontyXx


I cant help but realize that this thread was not even supposed to be a debate, just a refference search for the person actually having the debate.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 09:11:07


Post by: ChrisWWII


Eh, these kinds of threads always devolve into that kind of debate very quickly. It's practically a law of a web forum....any thread with the title 'Universe A vs. Universe B' will turn into a massive debate/flame war between fans of both.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 17:01:41


Post by: IvanTih


ChrisWWII wrote:Eh, these kinds of threads always devolve into that kind of debate very quickly. It's practically a law of a web forum....any thread with the title 'Universe A vs. Universe B' will turn into a massive debate/flame war between fans of both.

To be honest if you really want to debate go to http://forums.spacebattles.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 19:33:33


Post by: nosferatu1001


BoS - except SW is not limited to Fusion, neither is ST. ST *explicitly* states it uses AM/M reactions, using dilithium to *technobabble* warp space. Which is also possible (but requires something like 1 galaxy energy output, so maybe dilithium does something incredible there...)

They even have figures for the amount of M/AM used per second.

Whereas 40k uses a matter based fuel source in "plasma" reactors. The MOST energy a Fuel based source can produce is using Fusion reactions. ANd it is mentioned, IN CANON, that it is fusion.

You cant say "its only once" and handwave it away. Well., not without undermining every single calculation you perform based on single events.

BTW the OoM depends on which fuel cycle you use. D and T are much more efficient...


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 20:44:37


Post by: blazinpsycho&typhooni


nosferatu1001 wrote:BTW the OoM depends on which fuel cycle you use. D and T are much more efficient...


what's OoM and D and T?

I just figured out what M/AM was...


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/21 22:40:08


Post by: AndrewC


BearersOfSalvation wrote:They're referred to as plasma rectors except for what, one offhand comment from a non-technical character in one book? Fusion power doesn't provide enough energy to move warships from most SF (including all of the ones under discussion) without invoking an outside-of-physics drive, much less operate weapons and shields. Attempting to use it as a limit is just absurd.


So why do people throw the same limit against any other franchise, but not their own?

I'm positing in this thread, not the previous thread. You're apparently trying to continue an argument that you had with other people in another thread with me here, which is just silly.


Strange, better report that someone was using your login in the last thread then.....

Fusion can't produce enough energy to give ships the accelerations shown in SW/ST/40k, much less the weapons and shields. If you limit energy levels to fusion plant outputs, you can't get across a solar system in hours or days, it takes weeks or months, and you can't move in an arbitrary direction the way the ships are shown to, you have to follow planned orbits.


And what's wrong with that?

Then you can't even move ships like the Iom, Star Wars, or Star Trek have without going completely outisde of known physics for your drive, so you're throwing out all of the space travel described in any of the universes, which seems to make any conversation about it pointless. When you're limiting ships to the point that they can't even move like they're shown to do, you're not setting a reasonable upper bound at all.


But then the pro 40K side aren't setting reasonable bounds either.

And 40k ships don't use fusion reactors anyway.


Cheers

Andrew


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 08:45:16


Post by: nosferatu1001


Blazing - Order of Magnitude, deuterium and tritium. DIfferent fusion reactions involving heavy and very heavy hydrogen.

The "naive" reaction is H+H->He+energy, but it doesnt work very well.

One reason to go to the moon properly - thedark side should have plentry of hydrogen isotopes, continual bombardment by the solar wind should ensure that.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 08:51:15


Post by: blazinpsycho&typhooni


What's the fuel cycle you were talking about?


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 08:53:22


Post by: nosferatu1001


Hydrogen Fusion. There are a few different mixes of fuels you can use, some of which look to be more efficient.

Of course this is all "efficient" given we still then want to use fusion to heat water to generate steam to move turbines...id hope 40k was sligghtly more adept at getting energy a bit more directly!


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 08:55:20


Post by: blazinpsycho&typhooni


Does 40k even use electricity?

Just thinking of an alternative to electricity makes my head hurt...


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 09:12:44


Post by: ChrisWWII


They probably do use electricity. Electricity just WORKS....there's no reason to drop it unless something radically different comes along.

That's why I have problems with some series going out of their way to say they're 'futuristic' by saying they don't use electricity, when it's clearly the better option.

*cough* star trek and its plasma powered bridge panels, which is why they blow up all the time.. *cough*


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 10:43:54


Post by: nosferatu1001


Electricity "just works" but plasma allows for bigger explosions / better suicides

I suppose its an issue of energy transfer per second. Even with room temp superconductors you have an upper limit when shuffling electrons....


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 12:44:10


Post by: Frazzled


ChrisWWII wrote:Eh, these kinds of threads always devolve into that kind of debate very quickly. It's practically a law of a web forum....any thread with the title 'Universe A vs. Universe B' will turn into a massive debate/flame war between fans of both.


Well no one ever has a "who's lamer Jar Jar Binks or Barclay" that might be more interesting.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 13:19:08


Post by: nosferatu1001


Barclay is slightly more bearable in voyager. Something that cant be said for Jar Jar....


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 13:47:21


Post by: Connor McKane


blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Does 40k even use electricity?

Just thinking of an alternative to electricity makes my head hurt...


Yes, they use electricity... in the sense that all electricity is is current. Everything has a small nuclear reactor built into it then.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 13:57:04


Post by: ClosetRoller


It's people like you lot that give nerdy activities a bad name. I mean come on...what does it matter?


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 14:00:51


Post by: Frazzled


nosferatu1001 wrote:Barclay is slightly more bearable in voyager. Something that cant be said for Jar Jar....

Yea, you're right.

River Tam vs. 7 of 9?


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 15:15:31


Post by: Grey Templar


ClosetRoller wrote:It's people like you lot that give nerdy activities a bad name. I mean come on...what does it matter?


Because it does and we have nothing better to do

Probably because we all need Girlfriends or Boyfriends(don't want to leave the girls out)


any girls are welcome to shout out their avaliability


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 15:50:30


Post by: IvanTih


Found this quote on this forum. http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=168511&page=12
At 23:57 Cadian standard, the plasma grid was overloaded, causing exactly the effect Adept Gaul predicted it would, though to imagine it and to watch the pict-captures are two entirely different prospects. The grid's meltdown caused the world's mantle to erupt as a volcano, the tectonic plates splitting as their mass shifted. Within hours, an ocean of magma was visible from space, centred upon the former site of the main penal colony. Hours later, the world's crust was no more, having been swallowed whole by the seas of lava and vaporised by self-sustaining plasma storms. Soon the world was convulsing, great gobbets of plasma and magma arcing into space before freezing in the cold of vacuum and crashing back down to earth. These impacts stirred the ruins of the world still further, and Saint Josmane's Hope literally disintegrated as our troop ships fled for safety.
- The 13th Black Crusade, pg. 37

From what I know fusion reactors wouldn't behave like that,same thing happens in Exectuion Hour or Shadow Point.



Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 16:08:55


Post by: ChrisWWII


ClosetRoller wrote:It's people like you lot that give nerdy activities a bad name. I mean come on...what does it matter?

I don't go around arguing with people in public. I enjoy debate, and I enjoy scifi...why not have fun with a cross over debate?

And yeah, Nos, you're right...I mean there is an upper limit (and it looks cool ) but I can't imagine any activities on the bridge that in and of themselves require that much energy. The actual engines/FTL drive/ weapons themselves? Probably. The panels that display information about them? Not so much.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 17:08:33


Post by: nosferatu1001


It probably means they can reroute warp power through the bridge consoles for even more fun explosions!

River Tam. Eve I think shes hot! She's also completely nuts in a could-kill-you-way. BUt wash was hotter...especially as Alpha....

GT - and the guys who like guys, and the girls who like girls. And everything in between


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/22 17:27:05


Post by: ChrisWWII


Oh my....maybe if we did that, we'd finally blast through the character shield!

But yeah....River Tam. Definitely. 7 of 9 is good to look at, but beyond that...uh-uh. I mean seriously. "You wish to copulate? Remove your clothes." O.O Not. Attractive.

And besides...I find that kind of insanity extrremely endearing/adorable.


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/23 06:12:50


Post by: blazinpsycho&typhooni


IvanTih wrote:Found this quote on this forum. http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=168511&page=12
At 23:57 Cadian standard, the plasma grid was overloaded, causing exactly the effect Adept Gaul predicted it would, though to imagine it and to watch the pict-captures are two entirely different prospects. The grid's meltdown caused the world's mantle to erupt as a volcano, the tectonic plates splitting as their mass shifted. Within hours, an ocean of magma was visible from space, centred upon the former site of the main penal colony. Hours later, the world's crust was no more, having been swallowed whole by the seas of lava and vaporised by self-sustaining plasma storms. Soon the world was convulsing, great gobbets of plasma and magma arcing into space before freezing in the cold of vacuum and crashing back down to earth. These impacts stirred the ruins of the world still further, and Saint Josmane's Hope literally disintegrated as our troop ships fled for safety.
- The 13th Black Crusade, pg. 37

From what I know fusion reactors wouldn't behave like that,same thing happens in Exectuion Hour or Shadow Point.



So a plasma grid can be compared to a power grid in a sense, except much more powerful. Though I can't understand how a power grid could cause such massive amounts of damage.

How could I forget who river tam was...
forget facepalm


keyboard face roll....

swdr tjnh7u klohy7utfrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrvynhj7u pl.;/'[=]='[-;pkiyugfmbg


Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate @ 2010/11/23 09:30:32


Post by: nosferatu1001


Pumping vast amounts of superhot plasma arround and havnig it rupture would certainly be bad.

Remember nothing states that the plasma *grid* was the plasma *reactant* - i.e. the plasma could be, like in ST, simply the energy tranfer medium.

River Tam: so hot even gay guys fancy her. I mean, I wouldnt know what to DO with her in the highly unlikely scenario, but the conversation would be interesting thats for sure....