The polymorphic plastic I got from a generic supplier as I've said before, as for the resin, I think I try and find the apoxy sculpt people have told me about.
I would like to throw my 2 cents in about using Apoxie Sculpt with Instant Mold. Apoxie was much easier to use than green stuff or milliputty, and the only real problem is the length of time it takes to cure. However since using it my projects have become much cleaner in appearance and detail. They cure hard as plastic, and as noted...a little heat can help warped parts go back.
I have a few questions about instant mold/other variants:
1. How many packets of instant mold did you buy?
2. Can you cast bases with it and how is the detail?
jmurph wrote:Are there any US Instant Mold suppliers other than CMON (as they seem to be sold out)?
I believe Battleroad Games has some, and can order more. He will also give a better price than CMON, and is one of our own so support! Kick Empchild off a PM and I'm sure he will be happy to help -
I got some Polymorph first and it's okay, but not as good as Instant Mold seems to be. Now I'm waiting for a pack of Oyumaru, which really seems to be the same stuff.
Pretty much
Have had no probs but a tutorial video I have seen and Mistress of Minis recommends using talc when using modelling clays etc. Which next time I intend to do.
Could anyone post a tutorial please? I've only been able to pick up scraps of info in this thread and it'll be really great if someone could post a full tutorial to help anyone that's new to instant mold and it's variants
There is another thread with a tutorial, will look for it in a moment
GS doesn't stick but best wait until it cures.
As mentioned use some talc and it won't.
I found the GS came out without talc but I think it will help
People have been talking about legos, and pressing it into boxes and such, and I appreciate the advice, but these descriptions don't make much sense to the person who's never casted before!
Are there any online tutorials with step-by-step pictures?
I'll try and get some pictures later, but I ran into a problem, I kind of ruined my mold as the milliput I used wouldn't come out! Damn stuff! :-) But that's the other reason I like this technique... I'll just melt the plastic and do it again! Simples!
I have tried using petrolium jelly as a release agent, but didnt both this time, really should have!
I think I will also try graphite powder, I have loads from when I was doing white metal casting, better then talc as finer, I'll let you know how that goes!
Like any new technique, it's trial and error, find what works for you!
I think milliput on its own is too brittle for small casts, so will go back to gs or gs/milliput mix.
Ok, check this series of shots out, should be self explainatory.
Also, if you check the posts time stamps, whole process, less then half hour... Love it!
Not actually going to cast from this, just something I had lying arround, a master I made some time ago for pewter buttons for my re-enactment group. My own work, so no copywrite issues!
Apoxie is reeeally expensive here, like 100 bucks for 4lbs, so i need to find an alternative.
is apoxie better or greenstuff?
if GS is ok, then i'd like to know where i could buy a large quantity for a cheap price.
Thanks
I am getting quite wonderful results with Oyumaru and Grey Stuff. Except for the combi-melta. That particular bit seems cursed to never come out right.
I finally got my Legos this week and I did a mold box and pressure bit and it worked great. I now have a square, durable and pretty much perfect mold I will be able to use for a very long time.
If you would like I could do a video tutorial about it and how I do it. Still waiting for the pro create to harden so I can see the results.
I have been having great results using InstantMold, I haven't tried Oyumaru or friendly Plastic but might order some just so I can make a comparison between them.
MadCowCrazy wrote:I have been having great results using InstantMold, I haven't tried Oyumaru or friendly Plastic but might order some just so I can make a comparison between them.
I am 100% certain that InstantMold is in fact Oyumaru that someone is re-branding and selling at an inflated price much like GW, GF9, etc... do with Kneadatite.
Polymorph is something else entirely and much worse for our needs, and Friendly Plastic is very likely rebranded Polymorph.
MadCowCrazy wrote:I have been having great results using InstantMold, I haven't tried Oyumaru or friendly Plastic but might order some just so I can make a comparison between them.
I am 100% certain that InstantMold is in fact Oyumaru that someone is re-branding and selling at an inflated price much like GW, GF9, etc... do with Kneadatite.
Polymorph is something else entirely and much worse for our needs, and Friendly Plastic is very likely rebranded Polymorph.
I am glad you are 100% certain. However, until your proof involves more than your feelings, please try to let those of us enjoying the product do so without the injection of your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. As has been stated many times before in this thread, 'similar' does not mean 'same'. Tiny variations in chemical composition can change the properties and behaviors of otherwise similar products. I.e, childrens finger paint vs vallejo. Same thing right? Both acrylic paints? Clearly Vallejo is rebranded childrens finger paint.
It is quite possible you may be right, don't misunderstand me, and I'm sure if you or the other people who voiced similar opinions had any kind of facts to back themselves up, we would all be perfectly happy to listen. But until then, pleases don't come on here stating your opinion as fact in an attempt to stir the pot.
Hi there,
i tried the new mould material and have to say that it was too stifff after it hardened ! I was not able to get the model out.
Instead i tried "Vinamold" which stays quite soft after heating and pouring. It takes detail way better and can be reused up to ten times. I think it's the better alternative : )
Does anybody has similar experiences with "Vinamold" ???
I presumed it was understood that all posts are personal opinions by default. I believe that opening with "I am 100% certain" further reinforces that I am talking about my personal opinion. Otherwise I would have started with "It is 100% certain..."
MajorTom11 wrote:Tiny variations in chemical composition can change the properties and behaviors of otherwise similar products.
Yeah, maybe CMON spit in their Oyumaru
MajorTom11 wrote:I.e, childrens finger paint vs vallejo. Same thing right? Both acrylic paints? Clearly Vallejo is rebranded childrens finger paint.
That's a silly comparison, anyone can see how differently paints of different brands behave. If I may make an equally silly comparison in the other direction: would you demand a chemical analysis of two identical-looking cars before acknowledging they're from the same manufacturer?
We don't have any proof that GW's green stuff is Kneadatite either, and I have never seen anyone challenge that assumption. Is it that smaller companies get more of a break?
I suppose there is a small chance that whoever came up with InstantMold went to the manufacturer of Oyumaru and said "could you make us a batch with more XYZ chemical in it to make it behave more so-and-so" but from what I can see, there is no functional difference. So even if they are not 100%, there is no benefit to buying the more expensive one.
They still deserve major props for bringing this wonderful material to our attention, but it's a sad state of affairs that their first thought when they found it was "how can we use this to make money off our fellow hobbyists?"
The fact that InstantMold packaging has no company information, no copyright, trademark, patent info, ingredients, etc. apart from a link to CMON also points to it being a simple repackaging job.
The same conclusions were made on TGN, TMP, Warseer, and SomethingAwful at least, for what it's worth.
All of the above is my personal opinion, except the bit about the lack of information on the packaging.
lord_blackfang wrote:I presumed it was understood that all posts are personal opinions by default. I believe that opening with "I am 100% certain" further reinforces that I am talking about my personal opinion. Otherwise I would have started with "It is 100% certain..."
MajorTom11 wrote:Tiny variations in chemical composition can change the properties and behaviors of otherwise similar products.
Yeah, maybe CMON spit in their Oyumaru
MajorTom11 wrote:I.e, childrens finger paint vs vallejo. Same thing right? Both acrylic paints? Clearly Vallejo is rebranded childrens finger paint.
That's a silly comparison, anyone can see how differently paints of different brands behave. If I may make an equally silly comparison in the other direction: would you demand a chemical analysis of two identical-looking cars before acknowledging they're from the same manufacturer?
We don't have any proof that GW's green stuff is Kneadatite either, and I have never seen anyone challenge that assumption. Is it that smaller companies get more of a break?
I suppose there is a small chance that whoever came up with InstantMold went to the manufacturer of Oyumaru and said "could you make us a batch with more XYZ chemical in it to make it behave more so-and-so" but from what I can see, there is no functional difference. So even if they are not 100%, there is no benefit to buying the more expensive one.
They still deserve major props for bringing this wonderful material to our attention, but it's a sad state of affairs that their first thought when they found it was "how can we use this to make money off our fellow hobbyists?"
The fact that InstantMold packaging has no company information, no copyright, trademark, patent info, ingredients, etc. apart from a link to CMON also points to it being a simple repackaging job.
The same conclusions were made on TGN, TMP, Warseer, and SomethingAwful at least, for what it's worth.
All of the above is my personal opinion, except the bit about the lack of information on the packaging.
Your points are pretty valid, honestly. Please note the below is not about me proving I'm right and you are wrong, simply that there is no way to tell at this time with the information at hand.
Bearing this in mind, neither of us have no proof, as stated. So although I know Dakka is a den of negativity in certain threads, lets just leave it be no? The comparative products and assertions of sameness have been brought up at least 6 separate times in this thread already, and have been addressed. At the end of the day, you havent added anything new here but to begin another argument cycle, when the people interested here are looking to talk about Instamold, whether it works, and where we can get it.
Saying Oyumaru is available and cheaper is value added to the conversation, some may make the effort to find it and order it instead.
Saying it is a rip-off and CMON is price gauging is nothing but speculation on your part, and adds nothing to the goal people have of finding good pressmolding product, yelling at CMON and pressmolding being 2 separate issues.
Finally, the Vallejo/Finger Paint comparison inst silly, it's perfectly on point. What do you think the difference is between the two? They are both acrylics, do you think they are so vastly different looking at their chemical makeup? They aren't. And neither would any polythermal plastic either. But, slight differences in formula refinement can make huge differences in performance and use. This isnt me farting out my opinion, that's just fact. Do I know Instamold and Oyumaru plastic are different? Of course not! But, based on the above, looking the same and even acting similarly does not = the same, and I choose not to introduce negativity into the discussion. My opinion that it is different has as much technical merit as yours does that they are the same. Neither of us can be proven right, so, bearing that in mind, the discussion is in fact pointless til someone actually goes to a lab with both lol, that's just the way it is. My wife has a masters in Chemistry, I asked her about it. Even a few % difference in this substance (which is very common in multiple applications I might add) is enough to change it's temperature tolerances and rigidity when cool. That could make a big difference, esp to mini peeps like us trying to get the originals back out of the mold right?
Anyhow, I don't mean any offense to you, it's just territory that has already been covered and I for one would just like to see the thread stick to people's opinions and experiences as related to the topic at hand, OR, at the very least if comparisons are going to be made, at least have both products on hand and do side by side comparisons based on the facts in front of us. I am not attached to the Instamold brand, beyond that it has served me well thus far. If you have a better/cheaper alternative, by all means bring it to the table, but please bring it with more than just 'feelings'.
Anyhoo, thank you for taking the time to read my post, and also I respect your arguments and insights, esp the lack of packaging info (VERY good point). Just want to keep things moving forward and not have it turn into a Chapterhouse thread you know?
Fair enough.
I originally brought it up here because I was replying to someone who has InstantMold and was thinking of getting Oyumaru as well.
Maybe you could put links to all the materials mentioned in this thread in the first post, with whatever disclaimers you deem appropriate, so any newcomers don't have to wade through all this?
Good call! I really appreciate you being so reasonable and cool about this, you are an example to Dakka sir. No sarcasm just to be sure it's clear lol!
1st post appended with discussed alternatives and links, please let me know If I missed anything!
Back OT:
I have had great success with one part molds, while 2 parters are a bit iffy. I think this is more to do with my lack of experience in gauging how much GS to put in, and how to spread it.
I am wondering If making a lego mold box may help in assuring precision and even spread...
on that note, barring stealing from infants and toys'r'us, what is the best way to get your hands on legos these days, and, what is a good list of usefule logo bits to have? i.e, are there any big flat smooth pieces good to use as a stamp to push down on the molds, etc -
I got my IM in and have been trying it out on various different things. I have been using Kneaditite/GS and it appears to be working well in two part molds. I know it can do a one-sided press mold so I have not even been worrying about trying that yet.
GS does seem to be a little hard when trying to do a two part mold. It just doesn't go into the little details, or the details furthest from the center of the mold. But, what I have been doing to fix it is, after I do the mold, I let it dry, and then I put in a thin layer of GS over the parts that didn't fill in all the way and press it together again. This appears to be working to fill in the tiny details that are getting missed with the original IM casting.
I think I am going to try putting a filler in center of the mold. An airsoft BB, and see how that works, see if the GS works better when it has a hard piece in the middle to press against.
Oh, FYI i have been casting pieces off the Gamesday 2003? Ltd ed chaos champion. The one with the elf. I made a good caste of his left bracer/gauntlet, and I have made two casts of the head. Had to redo the mold because I cut it originally down around the nose, which made cleaing mold lines a pain in the butt.
I hope any of this helps someone.
And to answer some questions, GS does not stick to IM and one package of IM should be able to do 2-3 28mm complete models, depending on pose and number of pieces. Before you have to reuse any of it. I have only been using one stick out of the 6 from the package and used it like 5-6 times of reheating.
GS does seem to be a little hard when trying to do a two part mold. It just doesn't go into the little details, or the details furthest from the center of the mold. But, what I have been doing to fix it is, after I do the mold, I let it dry, and then I put in a thin layer of GS over the parts that didn't fill in all the way and press it together again. This appears to be working to fill in the tiny details that are getting missed with the original IM casting.
I hope any of this helps someone.
Awesome idea I'm going to try that!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
samwellfrm wrote:Being a lego enthusiast, I can say that there are smoth flat pieces that you can use.
Maybe their website can help you out?
I would offer to mail you some but they are a couple hundred miles away from me.
That's super kind bud, I will check out their site, just wondering if there was a 'Great for mini casting' shopping list floating around there somewhere!
For two part molds, the way I do it is like in the video - envelop the whole piece and then cut all around it. Not too difficult since the mold is transparent.
For casting, I use P3 Modelling Putty (which is probably re-branded ProCreate, if we want to go back to that )
I wet one half of the mold (the "shallower" half if applicable) and stuff the other with a lot of putty. Press the wet half on top, then remove it again. Because it's wet, it'll slide off without distorting the cast much. Cut all the flash off with a wet blade, then press the wet half back on. Repeat as necessary until you get rid of just about all the flash, then leave to set.
lord_blackfang wrote:For two part molds, the way I do it is like in the video - envelop the whole piece and then cut all around it. Not too difficult since the mold is transparent.
For casting, I use P3 Modelling Putty (which is probably re-branded ProCreate, if we want to go back to that )
I wet one half of the mold (the "shallower" half if applicable) and stuff the other with a lot of putty. Press the wet half on top, then remove it again. Because it's wet, it'll slide off without distorting the cast much. Cut all the flash off with a wet blade, then press the wet half back on. Repeat as necessary until you get rid of just about all the flash, then leave to set.
That sounds good too, is it even neccesary to wet it? I havent had much trouble with putty sticking to it - still, can't hurt!
It doesn't stick much either way, but if you don't wet one half, it'll stick to both equally and it'll be harder to keep the cast firmly in one half when you pry them apart.
You certainly want to wet the blade, or it'll pull at the putty. Oiling it would be even better, but I'm afraid of contaminating the mold. I tried that with Polymorph and it soaked up the oil and got all nasty and green.
You guys are doing 2 part molds different than I learned how. The Lego housing is fine you will need some clay to make a base for the 2nd part of the mold using the clay smooth it up to the original mold line then put in the keys in. Place the mold substance in and press down to make the first part let cool remove the frame. Then pull off the clay replace the frame around the mold with the first part of the mold on the bottom press in the second half of the mold let cool remove the original. Place your green stuff or what you are using to replicate the original and press down again to fill the mold.
Far Seer wrote:Apoxie is reeeally expensive here, like 100 bucks for 4lbs, so i need to find an alternative.
is apoxie better or greenstuff? if GS is ok, then i'd like to know where i could buy a large quantity for a cheap price.Thanks
Apoxie Sculpt is better for large areas, Green Stuff (Kneadatite) is better for smaller areas and sculpts.
Ouze wrote:I hope my instant mold arrives today. I'm eager to experiment with it.
How are you guys getting legos on the cheap?
There is a lego store in the mall near my home. They sell individual lego pieces by the container. I think I spent about $10 on legos and one of those flat, green lego "fields" to serve as the base.
Shapelock and Instamorph are both "comparable products" that I have used before that are missing from your list. though they typically come in beads and not bars. They have all the same physical properties described in this thread.
I just got my Insta Mold in the mail today. I have made molds in the past from RTV (room temp Vulcanizing) rubber, as well as rubber molds that have to be vulcanized in the oven. And I have equipment to cast in white metal as well as resins. This is a game changer for us modelers.
This is one of the best hobby materials I have seen in ages. With in 30 mins of opening the box I have cast a high quality replica of an OOP part.
TalonZahn wrote:I've never done anything ... I think I'll ... try to mold something complicated like an Assault Cannon arm.
Which is a recipe for failure and frustration.
The #1 benefit of this stuff is that it's reusable, so there's no loss (other than a little time) in starting out with something simple.
Take it step by step. Try and mould just the ammo box first. If that works, then great, you move on. If not, then you figure out why without the complication of the fact that you tried to run before you could walk.
Not trying to sound like a dick here, just common sense.
This stuff looks great, getting excited with the possiblilties, never cast anything before but always wanted to give it a go. The thought of mass producing parts you have made yourself pleases me for some reason haha. Would be good if someone put a tutorial up on the site, best product, differences between puttys etc for the less experienced like me cheers
Hey I bought some instant mold and some ProCreate STICK Putty recently.
The putty works great but it smells like so bad that I temporarily forgot the forum rules and decided that I needed to try to get around the swear filter with a silly-looking jumble of things that aren't even all letters in order to convey my disgust! No really it smells so bad that I can't even use it without a painting mask over my face.
The instant mold is awesome - I'm going to clone sections of a Rhino to build a destroyed Rhino terrain piece.
Seriously - don't try to circumvent the swear filter. If you want to describe something, use actual words. - The Mod Team
Just got mine in the mail... amazing. Did a demo with a scalding hot cup of work at water and a bit that just came in (yay for mailing to work to hide from the wife) and the results were astounding.
Now obviously it's a tad hard to take a good pic of something translucent, but here was a test and ignore that didn't cut a correct 50/50 since all I had on me was scissors lol.
Images removed. DO NOT post images of casting GW parts
Now since I'm at work I don't have any kneadinite or milliput on me, but simply eyeballing this 5 sec demo it has more detail then anything I have ever used.
Oh on the mixture I tend to use just a hair more milliput in my mix. I've found that even 70/30 GS/MP keeps the greenstuff's attribute of not crack/breaking.
Has anyone tried Alumilte resin with this product? and for that matter has anyone used both alumilites "regular" resin and "amazing casting" I have used the regular resin for years now and like it, just wanting a real world comparison between the two.
Alumilite is exothermic when curing but i cures so quickly that i dont know if it would matter when casting.
A little late, but here's my thoughts on the product. I think it's great for base making but as for weapons (Seriously, stop it. Or there will be suspensions) it's kinda meh. Maybe it's just me not doing it right but this is as close as I could get.
grey one is GF9 greystuff white one is milliput silver grey - haven't cut the flash yet
Milliput seems to stick to this thing, but once dried should be quite easy to remove.
I also tried filler cement (permafilla) and had a horrible experience. Had to run to the sink to wash the mold. Horrible.
lord_blackfang wrote:I got some Polymorph first and it's okay, but not as good as Instant Mold seems to be. Now I'm waiting for a pack of Oyumaru, which really seems to be the same stuff.
I purchased a pack of clear Oyumaru from here - even just looking through the stuff at the relief of what I have moulded from you can see it captures a lot of detail.
Currently using DAS clay to make some copies of various things. Just waiting for it to dry out, but it seems to have filled out pretty much everywhere except a couple of really deep pockets that I did not press enough material into (using a simple single sided press mould).
Also - though it doesn't look like you get a lot in a box (I opened up the packed and was really disappointed with how much I got) it actually smooshes out to quite a large area, so its looks are deceiving.
Will report back when the DAS has dried as to how good it is to use with Oyumaru. Will perhaps try a double sided mould if the DAS gets good details.
My new videos are uploading to youtube now, should explain the basics on how creating good molds using InstantMold.
I rant a bit as usual and run out of battery but you should get some good ideas after watching it.
I've been wanting to start a fortress project for a while, was thinking of press molding plasticard/green stuff wall details (flat backed) in bulk. It would be easier (I think) just to pour resin into the mold than to squeeze green stuff/ kneadite/ whatever else we have in.
It works but there are fumes and mixing and sticky pourings and airbubbles...
...but probably a good idea. I made three moulds for some architectural detailing but the stuff starts to go off quickly and sometimes only poured two out of the three.
I finally broke out the InstaMold and cast my very first 2 part mold tonight.
I decided to try this stuff from Lowe's called SteelStik that's used for sealing pipes/leaks and such. It's very pliable and easy to work with. Has a work time of 3-5 minutes and starts to harden shortly after. Takes about an hour to set solid.
I followed all the instructions from MadCowCrazy and his videos. What I produced, I will gladly put on my minis. The level of detail is insane.
My one glaring mistake was too much of the putty. The item is slightly thicker than the original and had a good amount of flash. It won't show on the mini though as the extra thickness is to the back of the item.
For those Canadians who are planning on buying this, or Oyumaru, be very very careful. Just got hit by a $60 COD charge by UPS because the shipper didn't bother to use the shipping money to actually... you know... properly ship my package.
Shouldn't disclose the store right now as I'm just beginning the dispute, but I wanted those who would be affected to be aware.
is it actually a shipping charge or the customs and brockerage fee that UPS is (in)famous for charging? i ONCE shipped a bunch of books to canada using UPS because it was cheaper to ship but the buyer then got stuck with a 20% or so "brokerage" fee.
Where can you buy instant mold from ? every link I seem to find links to a coolminiornot page that no longer exists.
Edit: Also for people who have used this (or similar products) to great extent, would you recommend using it for cloning Killa Kan arms ? (suppling 1 of each arm in the kit should be a damn crime!)
It would be tricky but not impossible to clone something similar to a killakan arm. Silicone molds and resin would likely be a wiser choice though for quick consistent results.
I use Oyumaru and have been able to make moulds of quite complex shapes with good results.
There are tutorials on making 2 part moulds around, however basically you do the following:
Making the mould 1) Heat up a bar (or however much is required) of Oyumaru until it is properly pliable.
2) Place Oyumaru on a flat, non-stick, clean surface.
3) Press object down into Oyumaru until it is about 50% submerged - use metal/silicone/etc tool to help get the Oyumaru flush with the edges of the object to be cast.
4) Allow to cool.
5) I personally trim the set Oyumaru to make it easier to work with and also give me more Oyumaru to use for other things
6) Heat another block of Oyumaru (or however much will be required).
7) Mould over original Oyumaru mould with object in place, working from one end to help minimise air bubbles. Press firmly in place. Try to get some overlap with the edges of the original Oyumaru mould to act as a guide when casting.
8) Allow to cool and trim as required.
Casting 1) Mix your GS/epoxy of choice/etc.
2) Firmly press a lump of GS/etc into the bottom part of the mould so that it fills in all the details and comes up level with the top of the bottom mould.
3) Repeat (2) with the top mould.
4) Carefully but firmly press the 2 moulds together, with the bottom mould on the table (as it has a flat base). Apply even pressure over the cast to help prevent deformation.
Just got four tubs of Oyumura from Art Clay World, USA. Great service from the store... such a crappy UPS experience. Serisously, google UPS Richmond, Vancouver and see what the 52 reviews say.
Far Seer wrote:Oyumaru is from Japan right? And with the nuclear disaster...would oyumaru be dangerous?
It turns out exposing Oyumaru to radiation leads to mutations that eventually develop life and sentience. This new polymorphic life form is part of the reason they struggled so hard to get the Fukushima reactor under control- they keep creeping into the systems and gumming things up. Giving them the vote may be the only way Kan stays in office.
Had a bit of a chuckle just then, looking at ur reactions. I was wondering wat people would say, the post above is particularly amusing. Just trying to keep this thread alive folks, nothing new was happening
