Daemonswords, daemonweapons, and daemonhosts are all used by radical inquisitors. Radical inquisitors get executed if they're found out. The grand master of the grey knights shouldn't be such a hypocrite.

UberhAxTHC wrote:Daemonswords, daemonweapons, and daemonhosts are all used by radical inquisitors. Radical inquisitors get executed if they're found out. The grand master of the grey knights shouldn't be such a hypocrite.

Daemonswords, daemonweapons, and daemonhosts are not melted down into their components and then purified before being reforged into something else.

Draigo seemingly did that. Which, I guess, makes a kind of sense since it's not like he can get ready made sword blanks.

Dogface 76 wrote:I do not know why everyone is so "betrayed" by the new Dreadknight? Why cant GW move forward with any concepts.....Heretics INDEED! You all sound like the Inquisition. If you dont like the new GK then dont play them...just dont be surprised when a young kid spams three of them and smites your battle line.

Some people view it as a betrayal as the aesthetics of the Dreadknight are most definitely not Imperial aesthetics, so it doesn't seem to fit as well. Not to mention, we don't like it when an army is hands down 'better' than another. That's our biggest problem...it's a broken codex, and it's not going to be fun to have your army get torn apart by 12 nigh invincible models. Codex: Movie Marines was a joke for a reason.

Cerebrium wrote:

Well, Russ is still technically Primarch of the Space Wolves and we have no idea if he's still alive either.

Well a Primarch isn't the day to day boss of the Chapter, and he is still the Primarch even though he's gone because it's simply genetic. Your dad doesn't stop being your dad just cause he's not around, and such it is with primarchs.

Pilau Rice wrote:Draigos survived in the Immaterium without assistance.

Draigos' tears can cure cancer. Too bad he's never cried.

(I think my point there was that Draigos is as far above the rest of the GK's as the GK's are above the rank and file of the IG. Your average GKT won't be able to take on a greater demon singlehanded.)

UberhAxTHC wrote:There are no rules for Cypher.

Yes there is. Just not in a recent Codex.

was just in my FLGS and they have the codex arrived today on display. alot of awesome stuff in there

Kanluwen wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Daemonswords, daemonweapons, and daemonhosts are all used by radical inquisitors. Radical inquisitors get executed if they're found out. The grand master of the grey knights shouldn't be such a hypocrite.

Daemonswords, daemonweapons, and daemonhosts are not melted down into their components and then purified before being reforged into something else.

Draigo seemingly did that. Which, I guess, makes a kind of sense since it's not like he can get ready made sword blanks.

Yeah...and he did all that with the power of his mind alone.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:There are no rules for Cypher.

Yes there is. Just not in a recent Codex.

I remember even in the GW website that Cypher do have stats

anyway
we did some simulation(by rolling dices so no mathhammer here)
This Dreadknight (155 point, it has this sword thing) proceed to murder it's way through(battle redone everytime it is finished so one on one) Defiler, and a STOMPA and some super heavies, to be fair he was rolled by this particularly lucky player (who often roll 6 ), but then loses to the Avatar

then we manage to find so many sillyness in the rules
Draigo five man 500 point army (LEGAL)

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Draigos survived in the Immaterium without assistance.

Draigos' tears can cure cancer. Too bad he's never cried.

(I think my point there was that Draigos is as far above the rest of the GK's as the GK's are above the rank and file of the IG. Your average GKT won't be able to take on a greater demon singlehanded.)

Your bog standard brother Captain banished Angron back to the warp, if it's your run of the mill greater daemon than i'm sure a Grey Knights luggage handler could do it

If the Grey Knights are now so bad ass do they need this great big exo suit of dread to send Daemons back to the warp?

draigos also have str 10 ageinst deamons and psykers.

Alot of other stuff like champion with tat same ability that canis wolfborn has as a special atack wen he dies that just kills the other model that killed him.
Alot of different nemesis force weapons aswell.

Almost all units have the hammerhand phsycic power that gives 1+ str before weapon modifyers witch means str 10 deamonhammers and the like.

insaniak wrote:Organisations of all types would frequently be cut off from their far-flung parts. So having the head of the organisation, even a military one, being out of contact for extended times would mean nothing more than that someone else would be filling in to cover whatever needs doing while he's gone.

Less paperwork (and less embarrassing) that way than declaring him dead and having him show up on the doorstep a week later wondering why his key no longer works.

If the BOOM Comics are anything to go by, this is exactly what happened when Uriel Ventris had his little forced "vacation". One of the Sergeants filled in, but wasn't officially made Captain.

Pilau Rice wrote:Your bog standard brother Captain banished Angron back to the warp, if it's your run of the mill greater daemon than i'm sure a Grey Knights luggage handler could do it

Yeah, brain fart, I was thinking of Primarch level demons.

I love how everyone is going mad about Draigo surviving in the Warp.

PROTIP: Look up Maugan Ra. He went into the warp TWICE, and on the second time, got an entire CRAFTWORLD out.

puma713 wrote:All I see when I look at the Dreadknight is:

LOL!!!!
I'm really excited about Halloween now. I was gonna dress my son up as a chestburster, but now...

LOL, again!

Cerebrium wrote:I love how everyone is going mad about Draigo surviving in the Warp.

PROTIP: Look up Maugan Ra. He went into the warp TWICE, and on the second time, got an entire CRAFTWORLD out.

Yeah the guy who stopped a splinter of Hive Fleet Leviathan all on his lonesome

Cerebrium wrote:I love how everyone is going mad about Draigo surviving in the Warp.

PROTIP: Look up Maugan Ra. He went into the warp TWICE, and on the second time, got an entire CRAFTWORLD out.

Ooooh, that brings up the question: Maugan Ra v.s Draigo! Its like the Bruce Lee V.S Chuck Norris of the Grim Dark Future!

Cerebrium wrote:I love how everyone is going mad about Draigo surviving in the Warp.

I think this is better:

Emperor and Malcador the Sigillite decided that the Imperium needs holy warriors just incase the Horus Heresy goes ill or all censored.gif gets messed up and needs fixing.
Malcador goes off and finds 12 dudes, 4 of which become the Inquisition and 8 of which are Space Marines, some from the traitor legions aka Garro + his dudes.
Malcador takes them to Titan and unveils Titan's SURPRISE! Fortress Monastery. It was shrouded by him all this time, no one knew..
He assigns the task for build the Grey Knights to Janus, the first Grand Master and gives him a hundred thousand initiates and then disappears.
Before he does, he shrouds the entire planet of Titan and Titan disappears from Saturn's orbit and takes a journey through the warp (ROFL)
Titan re-emerges during the 2nd founding with a thousand Grey Knights and starts kicking ass.

I vomited, regurgitated, ate it to do a double-take, confirmed what I read, and vomited again. Then I accidently flipped the book to Draigo's page and decided to leave.

How is that that bad? We accept Manhattan sized battleships travelling through the warp but not a moon? (not to mention that planets enter and exit the warp all the time through other means, unintentionally and, in some cases, intentionally. Chaos powers have pulled planets into the warp previously, I think in Gaunt's or Ragnar's series).

The Emperor can generate a psychic beacon that stretches across the universe, but Malcador can't shroud a planet?

Sigh. Keep hating.

I think part of the problem may be the show-offy pose. The model is plastic right? I bet a little fidgeting would make it look better.

I, for one, welcome our new terminator overlords.

Hell, Orks ATTACH ENGINES TO ASTEROIDS AND STEER THEM INTO THE WARP.

Seriously, the fluff isn't nearly that ridiculous. It's just because it's all NEW fluff, meaning people haven't had time to digest it.

Or rather, to summarise, haters gon' hate.

pretre wrote:How is that that bad? We accept Manhattan sized battleships travelling through the warp but not a moon? (not to mention that planets enter and exit the warp all the time through other means, unintentionally and, in some cases, intentionally. Chaos powers have pulled planets into the warp previously, I think in Gaunt's or Ragnar's series).

The Emperor can generate a psychic beacon that stretches across the universe, but Malcador can't shroud a planet?

Sigh. Keep hating.

You're a funny one. It's why we keep you around.

Think I'll try to build the dreadknight sans the harness, might look a bit less baby-carrier-ish.

Fully enclosed sans head (maybe) or fully exposed imo, the harness thing just looks silly.

So basically... I have no objection to what you said?

pretre wrote:So basically... I have no objection to what you said?

Of course not, it's your schtick: You have no objections to anything, no matter how ridiculous.

As a heads-up, a fair number of Inquisitor models went up today.

Including:

bhsman wrote:

pretre wrote:So basically... I have no objection to what you said?

Of course not, it's your schtick: You have no objections to anything, no matter how ridiculous.

Oooh, I have a shtick now.... And way to set me up:

I object to you and you're pretty ridiculous.




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Oh and Kan, that's an old model. Released with C: WH.


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and Kan, you'll be glad to know that I'm the new apologist apparently because I'm too agreeable.

I know it is.

But he was also a limited edition roadshow model.

He's now Direct Only, for $15.

Coteaz and the Witchhunter Inquisitor from the Witchhunter+retinue boxed set are also available singly.

$15 each.

pretre wrote:Oooh, I have a shtick now.... And way to set me up:

I object to you and you're pretty ridiculous.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Your dogged defense of this release against ANY criticism is pretty striking, though. I think you need to understand that Kan and I aren't the ones to usually get upset at every little thing GW does; maybe we have valid claims for criticism?

But hey, just call us haters. Doggies gonna dog.

bhsman wrote:Doggies gonna dog.

Huh?

He's being dogged in his defense. Bad joke on my part. :p

bhsman wrote:
Your dogged defense of this release against ANY criticism is pretty striking, though. I think you need to understand that Kan and I aren't the ones to usually get upset at every little thing GW does; maybe we have valid claims for criticism?

But hey, just call us haters. Doggies gonna dog.

I said I didn't like the Mortarion heart carving and thought it was silly.

I'm sure you have valid claims; I just think that a lot of the criticism is due to people not reading actually reading the book / seeing the models in person and just reacting to rumors, speculation and one picture they saw on the internet. Is it so hard to wait until we've actually seen the thing before making a decision?

I also don't understand Kan's, and other folks, unquenchable hate for the DK. I get that you might not like it, or think it could have been better, but the constant OMG DK IS WORSE THAN ANYTHING EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND POTENTIALLY BEFORE and I WANT TO FACE HUMP MATT WARD FOR WHAT HE DID TO US is kinda old. You can not like stuff without it being a huge deal.

In general, I am a lot slower to anger or flip out over stuff than a lot of people I know. Maybe I'm just getting old.


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And do you guys count as Doggies for being Dogged in your Offense?

We could just change the Haters meme to Doggies. Get a cut dog pic. It'll be very simple.

The Mortarion thing was dumb but allowable, but if the dude's so pissed why doesn't he just kill Draigo in the Warp? And it's the Warp, not the Eye of Terror; even the Emperor wouldn't mess with that junk without building his own Webway portal. The man's deeds outstrip that of the Primarchs and Ward's justification makes the Rise of the Tau look like compelling writing by comparison.

And the Dreadnought is shoehorned in. There's no good justification for it.

The Eye of Terror is just an access to the Warp / Realms of Chaos. Draigo isn't the first guy hanging out in there. There's kind of a history of folks wandering in and hanging out for a while and then coming back out.

13th Company makes a living doing it.

My standing on Draigo is that he is a tragic hero, not a mary sue. He basically fell into his position by being in the right place at the right time. Keep in mind that he just struck the killing blow on the DP the first time and did not defeat it in single combat. With the exception of the mortarion thing (which I don't like and think maybe they keep Morts heart in the basement and D just snuck down and carved a name in it when the other GMs weren't looking), he didn't do anything cool as GM.

Then he decides that to defeat the DP he has to go off alone and starts this chain of hubris/self-sacrifice that leads to his expulsion to the warp.

There he gets to do all this cool stuff, but ultimately it is worthless. It is like the Chaos Gods are playing with him by allowing him to think he is all that, but as soon as he turns around reverting all the changes.

He is a metaphor for everything that the Grey Knights are, faithful, strong of arm and powerful, but ultimately doomed to be overwhelmed by the infinity of Chaos.


As for the DK thing, I think it makes sense to have exo-suits to fight big Daemons. You guys think it is silly. We agree to disagree.

The Warp =/= the Eye of Terror. The Warp is where literal thoughts become energy, there's no way to keep your body composition together, etc. Ward didn't just write up an implausible (for 40k) story about Draigo, he also re-wrote entire fluff about the nature of the Warp (NOT the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom). But hey, feel free to convince yourself otherwise.

Grey Knights exist to fight big daemons and it makes for a compelling narrative. Dreadknights shat all over that with its introduction.

Kanluwen wrote:As a heads-up, a fair number of Inquisitor models went up today.

Including:

So much love for this model...

pretre wrote:

As for the DK thing, I think it makes sense to have exo-suits to fight big Daemons. You guys think it is silly. We agree to disagree.

How was it they fought big Daemons before the Dreadknights?

I think it's silly because it feels, to me, like GW said, "We have an idea for a big model @ $53 a pop and we wanna sell it with the Grey Knights! Make it good, so it sells. And write up some fluff to go with it."

And Mat Ward crow-barred it into fluff. It all feels forced.

I love all the Inquisitor models. I'm using the one with the plasma pistol and power sword for my counts-as Coteaz. That greatcoat is too awesome to say no to.

I loved the storm raven, I love this and I love grey knights.

So haters can hate all ya want, the dreadknight is still gonna happen. XD

bhsman wrote:
Grey Knights exist to fight big daemons and it makes for a compelling narrative. Dreadknights shat all over that with its introduction.

I see your point on this and kinda agree.

Kinda makes the first war of Armageddon fluff seem a bit stupid really.

Unless they actually re write it and include a bunch of Dreadknights or there was an even bigger Daemon incursion where the Dreadknights were required. You can't get much bigger than a full Khornate assault with a Daemon Primarch on one of the most important planets though.

pretre wrote:The Eye of Terror is just an access to the Warp / Realms of Chaos. Draigo isn't the first guy hanging out in there. There's kind of a history of folks wandering in and hanging out for a while and then coming back out.

Nnnnnnnoo... The Eye of Terror and the Maelstrom are unstable alternate realities where the material world and the immaterium (or Warp) actually coincide. That's why you can actually maintain physicality within the Eye or Maelstrom, and why whole planetary systems exist there.

It's still suffused with raw chaos, and anything unshielded becomes horribly mutated, but you still get to exist in the Material plane and have a body and walk on dirt (or blood, or goo) and such.

Technically, Draigo isn't in the Warp, he is in the 'Realms of Chaos'. As far as I have seen in the past, the Realm of Chaos is a somewhat stable 'island' in the sea that is the Immaterrium.

And I didn't write that the Eye was = the Warp, I wrote that it was access to. It is where the Warp bleeds into realspace (one spot at least) and creates something new.

Where did he rewrite the nature of the Warp?




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Pilau Rice wrote:

bhsman wrote:
Grey Knights exist to fight big daemons and it makes for a compelling narrative. Dreadknights shat all over that with its introduction.

I see your point on this and kinda agree.

Kinda makes the first war of Armageddon fluff seem a bit stupid really.

Unless they actually re write it and include a bunch of Dreadknights or there was an even bigger Daemon incursion where the Dreadknights were required. You can't get much bigger than a full Khornate assault with a Daemon Primarch on one of the most important planets though.

How about instead of sending 100 guys next time, we send 3 Dreadknights and a few battle brothers? The idea is that the GKs are spread thin in a universe filled with Daemonic incursions. Anything they can do to be more efficient and better combat Chaos, they will do.

So you're making stuff up that supports your argument?

The Warp isn't a location.

EDIT: Grey Knights were less spread thin before they were arbitrarily rewritten to only have one thousand by Ward.

bhsman wrote:So you're making stuff up that supports your argument?

The Warp isn't a location.

EDIT: Grey Knights were less spread thin before they were arbitrarily rewritten to only have one thousand by Ward.

The warp is most certainly a location.

The Warp is a psychic dimension parallel to real space. It is known by many names: Warpspace, the Immaterium, the Empyrean, the Ether, the Sea of Souls, and also as the Realm of Chaos.

And there have been multiple references in the past to 'stable' areas in the warp where the Chaos Gods and their minions live. It isn't just formless chaos. (See tons of Codex : Chaos Daemons)

When were the number of the GK ever published previously? Except for the SW and BT, who specifically mention their exception, I have always assumed that they followed the post heresy 1000.

Pilau Rice wrote:

bhsman wrote:
Grey Knights exist to fight big daemons and it makes for a compelling narrative. Dreadknights shat all over that with its introduction.

I see your point on this and kinda agree.

Kinda makes the first war of Armageddon fluff seem a bit stupid really.

Unless they actually re write it and include a bunch of Dreadknights or there was an even bigger Daemon incursion where the Dreadknights were required. You can't get much bigger than a full Khornate assault with a Daemon Primarch on one of the most important planets though.

Or they realized that it kinda sucks to lose so many terminators everytime gak hits the fan and decided to build something to avoid similar events in the future?

pretre wrote:
How about instead of sending 100 guys next time, we send 3 Dreadknights and a few battle brothers? The idea is that the GKs are spread thin in a universe filled with Daemonic incursions. Anything they can do to be more efficient and better combat Chaos, they will do.

So sending Dreadknights wouldnt've been a good idea

Maybe I missed your point ...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Or they realized that it kinda sucks to lose so many terminators everytime gak hits the fan and decided to build something to avoid similar events in the future?

Yeah, but that would depend on when the Dreadknight was invented. If it was before Armageddon then fool them for not using them in the first place

I'm sorry, every time I look at this mini I have this urge to say: 'One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall.'

Does it turn into a stormraven?

I can feel my fandom withering just looking at it. Fortunately, no one around here is playing GK.

Pilau Rice wrote:

pretre wrote:
How about instead of sending 100 guys next time, we send 3 Dreadknights and a few battle brothers? The idea is that the GKs are spread thin in a universe filled with Daemonic incursions. Anything they can do to be more efficient and better combat Chaos, they will do.

So sending Dreadknights wouldnt've been a good idea

Maybe I missed your point ...

Instead of sending 100 guys, we send 3 DK and 20 guys. Conservation of effort. Applying more power through technology? A GK in a DK suit is worth more than 1 Terminator against Greater Daemons, is my contention.


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Picture of the Realms of Chaos from C: CD:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/4/48/Realm_of_Chaos.jpg

Looks like a place to me.

pretre wrote:
Instead of sending 100 guys, we send 3 DK and 20 guys. Conservation of effort. Applying more power through technology? A GK in a DK suit is worth more than 1 Terminator against Greater Daemons, is my contention.

I see, so you were saying what they should do if they re wrote Armageddon.

On the same page now

Pilau Rice wrote:

pretre wrote:
Instead of sending 100 guys, we send 3 DK and 20 guys. Conservation of effort. Applying more power through technology? A GK in a DK suit is worth more than 1 Terminator against Greater Daemons, is my contention.

I see, so you were saying what they should do if they re wrote Armageddon.

On the same page now

Nonononononono

They shouldn't rewrite Armageddon. If the GK run into a similar invasion in the future, they will be able to send a more efficient force.
Does the US wish it had F-16s, blackhawks and apaches in WWII? Heck yeah. Would we have won without those things? Sure. Would it have been a lot easier if we had those? Yeah, probably.

bhsman wrote:The Warp =/= the Eye of Terror. The Warp is where literal thoughts become energy, there's no way to keep your body composition together, etc. Ward didn't just write up an implausible (for 40k) story about Draigo, he also re-wrote entire fluff about the nature of the Warp (NOT the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom). But hey, feel free to convince yourself otherwise.

Grey Knights exist to fight big daemons and it makes for a compelling narrative. Dreadknights shat all over that with its introduction.

I coulda swore a certain Dark Elf Witch King survived a good long time in the warp...

Exactly, it isn't like people haven't survived in the warp for extended periods before.

pretre wrote:Nonononononono

They shouldn't rewrite Armageddon. If the GK run into a similar invasion in the future, they will be able to send a more efficient force.

Right, well I was talking about Armageddon and if they re wrote it. Ifs and buts

And if what you are saying here is true

pretre wrote:The idea is that the GKs are spread thin in a universe filled with Daemonic incursions. Anything they can do to be more efficient and better combat Chaos, they will do.

They obviously deemed Armageddon worthy of sending a whole company of Grey knights

pretre wrote:to be more efficient and better combat Chaos

pretre wrote:Does the US wish it had F-16s, blackhawks and apaches in WWII? Heck yeah. Would we have won without those things? Sure. Would it have been a lot easier if we had those? Yeah, probably.

Or just a Dread knight

1 Exosuit versus Nazi Germany? Woot, we win!

pretre wrote:1 Exosuit versus Nazi Germany? Woot, we win!

Yee haa!!!

There was an ork waagh that rampaged from the Cadian Gate into the warp. They didn't evaporate when they entered. They rampaged all over the place until the last few were killed by the Blood Prince, with the Warlord emasculating him as he went..

Nearly all spacecraft travel through the warp, and they stay solid just fine (most times ). The Warp is an alternate dimension, rather than a location, where physics takes on some very odd subclauses. Certain places in the warp are known locations, and are more stable than others.

Wandering it on your own forever without being killed or lost in time.. That's a bit more of a stretch...

Well, to be fair, he is lost in time. That's clearly stated in the fluff.

That actually makes it even more horrifying.

Now Draigo can rampage through the canon retroactively, like some sort of mad C.S. Goto-inspired Carmen Sandiego.

BE AMAZED as Kaldor Draigo halts the WAAAUGH!

BE STUNNED as Kaldor Draigo protects Terra!

BEHOLD as Kaldor Draigo saves Roboute Guilliman!

pretre wrote:

bhsman wrote:it's your schtick:...s.

Oooh, I have a shtick now....

I have a shctick too, I ushe it to beatsh people who like thish new dreadnightmare

Pilau Rice wrote:
Yeah, but that would depend on when the Dreadknight was invented.

According to the fluff, GK's won't reveal the secret as to the origins of the Dreadknight (convenient). Paraphrased: "Is it a from the Dark Age of Technology and the times since, or are its origins more alien? Either way, the Grey Knights aren't saying."

puma713 wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
Yeah, but that would depend on when the Dreadknight was invented.

According to the fluff, GK's won't reveal the secret as to the origins of the Dreadknight (convenient). Paraphrased: "Is it a from the Dark Age of Technology and the times since, or are its origins more alien? Either way, the Grey Knights aren't saying."

Convenient indeed

Draigo brought ti back thru time. It was developed by the 5th c'tan: Skynet

Ascalam wrote:Draigo brought ti back thru time. It was developed by the 5th c'tan: Skynet

LOL and his xeno assistant, Optimus Prime.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Draigo brought ti back thru time. It was developed by the 5th c'tan: Skynet

LOL and his xeno assistant, Optimus Prime.

With his Baby Bjorn, holding Daniel Witwicky.

I find it awesome how I looked on page 1 and saw one post about Draigo, and 13 pages later i still see posts on him. Im not even gonna bother going through any of the posts.

I still think the new GK look good. The walker is a bit meh, but to be honest, I would love to field one. I mean seriously, you'd definately have a centerpiece, a 20 foot tall machine running through the field smashing things into paste with it's hammer. As long as Smackus maximus has been applied, I don't care what delivers it.

purplefood wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Draigo turned a Bloodthirster's axe into his sword...and he's using it to this day, and nobody is calling heretic on him...probably because they're too scared...

Logan Grimnar's Axe and Marneus Calgar's Gauntlets were both taken from dead Chaos champions.
I'm sure he appreciates the irony of the fact he has killed people for simply holding a daemon weapon whereas he actively took one and is using it, but i think he has a few other problems.

taken from chaos champions and taken from a bloodthirster are two different things.

a bloodthirsters axe itself is a daemon. Killing with it makes the daemon inside stronger. Slaves to Darkness

blaktoof wrote:

purplefood wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Draigo turned a Bloodthirster's axe into his sword...and he's using it to this day, and nobody is calling heretic on him...probably because they're too scared...

Logan Grimnar's Axe and Marneus Calgar's Gauntlets were both taken from dead Chaos champions.
I'm sure he appreciates the irony of the fact he has killed people for simply holding a daemon weapon whereas he actively took one and is using it, but i think he has a few other problems.

taken from chaos champions and taken from a bloodthirster are two different things.

a bloodthirsters axe itself is a daemon. Killing with it makes the daemon inside stronger. Slaves to Darkness

Which is why he broke the axe and then purified the metal it was made from.

He's not running around wielding a Bloodthirster's Axe.

Unless it is purified first.


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Aww, ninja'd by Kan.

The dreadknight was obviously made bey necrons and passed on through a necron cult to the ad mech on mars.

Obviously the c'tan created and nurtured the grey knights to battle warp entities because the warp is anathema to the c'tan.

the blood angels codex completely supports this where the blood angels and necrons fistbump each other like long time brohams, obviously the bloodangels psyker dreadnaught was engineered by the c'tan to battle warp entities.


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Kanluwen wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

purplefood wrote:

UberhAxTHC wrote:Draigo turned a Bloodthirster's axe into his sword...and he's using it to this day, and nobody is calling heretic on him...probably because they're too scared...

Logan Grimnar's Axe and Marneus Calgar's Gauntlets were both taken from dead Chaos champions.
I'm sure he appreciates the irony of the fact he has killed people for simply holding a daemon weapon whereas he actively took one and is using it, but i think he has a few other problems.

taken from chaos champions and taken from a bloodthirster are two different things.

a bloodthirsters axe itself is a daemon. Killing with it makes the daemon inside stronger. Slaves to Darkness

Which is why he broke the axe and then purified the metal it was made from.

He's not running around wielding a Bloodthirster's Axe.

so that did what to the daemon inside of it?

I'm going to go with Purified the daemon.

I.e. It is just metal now.

blaktoof wrote:
so that did what to the daemon inside of it?

Gee, let's see...

Grey Knight, one of the few members of the Imperium who is able to banish Daemons and completely destroy them, shatters an axe made to bind a daemon's Warp essence...

What do you think happened?

There's a reason they use the term "purified" in his fluff, and not just "he remade it".

Wonder twin powers activate! Form of smack down.

pretre wrote:
I.e. It is just metal now.

No way. Not Draigo. Nothing he has is 'just metal', other than the Stryper cassette he is listening too on his strolls throug the Warp.

Wow, you know puma, we had some disagreements, but that's just ... low.

Stryper?

pretre wrote:Wow, you know puma, we had some disagreements, but that's just ... low.

Stryper?

Yep.

Am I too late for the meme photoshooping?



501st post

@puma: That's pretty damn cruel.

Yay, more DK photoshops. These are original and not overdone by now.

Some people view it as a betrayal as the aesthetics of the Dreadknight are most definitely not Imperial aesthetics, so it doesn't seem to fit as well. Not to mention, we don't like it when an army is hands down 'better' than another. That's our biggest problem...it's a broken codex, and it's not going to be fun to have your army get torn apart by 12 nigh invincible models. Codex: Movie Marines was a joke for a reason.

Did you play with Codex: Daemonhunters? That was a broken codex. An uphill struggle against even the most balanced of new codexes.

As for asthetics...how does it not fit Imperial Standards? Yeah, its a mech, but so are Titans. Its armour is highly-similar to Grey Knight armour; but in a more mechanical form...so it doesnt seem that out of line.

Kanluwen wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
so that did what to the daemon inside of it?

Gee, let's see...

Grey Knight, one of the few members of the Imperium who is able to banish Daemons and completely destroy them, shatters an axe made to bind a daemon's Warp essence...

What do you think happened?

There's a reason they use the term "purified" in his fluff, and not just "he remade it".

was just curious because he cant really banish something to a place hes from when hes in that place. and a bloodthirsters daemon axe is also a bloodthirster, and I would think purifying it if there was such a thing, which there isnt, would just make it a flowerplanter or huglover or something. is matt ward the guy that gives space marines multilasers?

Here we go again. Check this thread, or the Dreadknight thread or the locked rumor thread. Or just click on Kan's profile and check his recent posts.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Did you play with Codex: Daemonhunters? That was a broken codex. An uphill struggle against even the most balanced of new codexes.

As for asthetics...how does it not fit Imperial Standards? Yeah, its a mech, but so are Titans. Its armour is highly-similar to Grey Knight armour; but in a more mechanical form...so it doesnt seem that out of line.

Just cause it was a bad codex does not give them a carte blanche to make the new codex overpowered. You do not correct previously being underpowered, by making the new codex overpowered.

It's not that it's a mech, it's just...it doesn't feel right. If I saw it without context, I would not place it as an Imperial construct. I mean, even Titans maintain that big, blocky lumbering aesthetic. Even things like Thunderhawks and Lightning fighters still seem a bit blocky with harsh lines.

That begs the question: How do you make Daemonhunters playable without making them broken?

Wait 3 months and ask that question again. I have a feeling people will feel they are less broken once they've had a chance to play with and against them.

This happens every time a codex comes out.

Yeah, Blood Angels or Space Wolves don't seem that bad any more.

But OMG Stormravens and TWC!!!

Don't forget OMG Tyranids! Although the FAQ really killed that one more than time.

Kanluwen wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
so that did what to the daemon inside of it?

Gee, let's see...

Grey Knight, one of the few members of the Imperium who is able to banish Daemons and completely destroy them, shatters an axe made to bind a daemon's Warp essence...

What do you think happened?

There's a reason they use the term "purified" in his fluff, and not just "he remade it".

Kan, maybe I missed out on something, but a bloodthirster's axe is made of the raw stuff of the warp, rather then actual metal, per se, much the same as bloodletter's swords. So if you 'purified' it, wouldn't there be nothing left?

Codex CD wrote: GD of Khorne carry great axes, forged in the heat of the rage of the Lord of War and imbued with the essence of caged Greater Daemons.

Metal that is imbued with GD.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Kan, maybe I missed out on something, but a bloodthirster's axe is made of the raw stuff of the warp, rather then actual metal, per se, much the same as bloodletter's swords. So if you 'purified' it, wouldn't there be nothing left?

Warp stuff actually follows some laws of physics and science that resemble the real world. That's why daemons have guts and decapitation kills them, for example; they're not just made out of warplasticene.

DarknessEternal wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Kan, maybe I missed out on something, but a bloodthirster's axe is made of the raw stuff of the warp, rather then actual metal, per se, much the same as bloodletter's swords. So if you 'purified' it, wouldn't there be nothing left?

Warp stuff actually follows some laws of physics and science that resemble the real world. That's why daemons have guts and decapitation kills them, for example; they're not just made out of warplasticene.

Yeah, but the point is that when they 'die' that stuff dissipates, such as when you kill bloodletters. All their metal bits etc just evaporate according to fluff. It's specifically mentioned that the only way to get soemthing like that and keep it whole after killing the daemon is to use a stasis field in the exact instant that the daemon is slain, which would preclude altering the weapon afterward.

That's in realspace. The reason it leaves with the bloodletter is that it is returning to the warp. When the BT was killed in the warp, where would it return to?

pretre wrote:That's in realspace. The reason it leaves with the bloodletter is that it is returning to the warp. When the BT was killed in the warp, where would it return to?

Apparently not - haven't you seen the new GK models with plaguebearer heads and daemonette heads? Maybe the GK have just found a way to stabliize them in realspace for. . .boosted morale?

I got the impression they were supposed to be trophies they'd picked up fighting daemons, and had not yet had time to dissipate.

ChrisWWII wrote: I mean, even Titans maintain that big, blocky lumbering aesthetic.

O'rly?





Lucius Pattern Titans do NOT equate to all Titan patterns, you know.

I like the old patterns from Epic better.

I used an old Reaver titan to make my GK dread, back a few years.

Thanks for the blast from the way better looking past

Let me get it out of the way now that I HATE the Armour Cast Titans. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. ESPECIALLY the Warhound. =Twitches at seeing it=

I know the Lucius pattern isn't the only one, but even the Mars pattern maintains that Imperial aesthetic despite being curvier. It's not so much being all hard right angles, and straight lines. You can still have the Imperial Aesthetic with curves and softer angles. Hell, like with the LIghtning you can even have a SLEEK Imperial aesthetic.

The new Dreadknight just doesn't do it for me as much. I don't hate the model (at least not as much as I hate the Armourcast Warhound), but it's definitely a less Imperial Aesthetic. It reminds me less of the grim darkness of the far future, and more of a gritty diesel punk setting. Close, but no cigar.

A brick with a gun is only scary when surrounded by other bricks with guns-Motto of the armoured regiment.

puma713 wrote:

pretre wrote:

As for the DK thing, I think it makes sense to have exo-suits to fight big Daemons. You guys think it is silly. We agree to disagree.

How was it they fought big Daemons before the Dreadknights?

I think it's silly because it feels, to me, like GW said, "We have an idea for a big model @ $53 a pop and we wanna sell it with the Grey Knights! Make it good, so it sells. And write up some fluff to go with it."

And Mat Ward crow-barred it into fluff. It all feels forced.

That would never happen!

ChrisWWII wrote:Let me get it out of the way now that I HATE the Armour Cast Titans. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. ESPECIALLY the Warhound. =Twitches at seeing it=

HERESY!

The original Epic designs were the best Warhound design!

ChrisWWII wrote:Let me get it out of the way now that I HATE the Armour Cast Titans. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. ESPECIALLY the Warhound. =Twitches at seeing it=

The Armorcast Titans were just scaled-up versions of the original Epic models, though. So the design aesthetic wasn't Armorcasts. That was what titans looked like at that point in time.

Those are mockups. I forgot about that. Although I'm pretty sure there are instances of daemon remains hanging out previously, but still kind of silly.

insaniak wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Let me get it out of the way now that I HATE the Armour Cast Titans. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. ESPECIALLY the Warhound. =Twitches at seeing it=

The Armorcast Titans were just scaled-up versions of the original Epic models, though. So the design aesthetic wasn't Armorcasts. That was what titans looked like at that point in time.

Ah...so I hate hate hate the original Epic design for the Titans. It really does not work for me. I like the Forge World ones a lot more....the best explanation is that the old epic Warhound just seems a little...too organic for my tastes. Ah well.

pretre wrote:That's in realspace. The reason it leaves with the bloodletter is that it is returning to the warp. When the BT was killed in the warp, where would it return to?

I dunno. They also dissipate when killed on daemon worlds and on ships whose Gellar fields have failed, which are also in the warp, so...

puma713 wrote:
Apparently not - haven't you seen the new GK models with plaguebearer heads and daemonette heads? Maybe the GK have just found a way to stabliize them in realspace for. . .boosted morale?

Well, yes, as I pointed out earlier, if you us a stasis field of some sort on it in the moment that it's slain, you can preserve parts of dead daemons. Though one thing that's always bugged me about stasis fields is why they don't then go flying off into the sky, but that aside: it's not impossible to preserve daemon bits, it's just impossible to take a daemon's weapon and reforge it after having killed the daemon.

Step 1: Tau Ethereals use their alleged mind control enslavement powers possess GK engineers
Step 2: Direct them to built Dreadknights
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit... for the greater good.

I'm not sure where or if this has even been argued about or talked about but, Where in the fluff of 40k and or Grey Knights do Space monkeys who if i understand correctly are walking gun platforms come from? I myself see it as ridiculous. And please before i am bashed or looked upon as a band wagon hater, i rarely if ever join in on these conversations i normally hate everything lol, but all seriousness I have only been in this Universe(40k) for 3 and half 4 years now, and only reading the novels and attempting to learn all the Fluff the past 2. I..i just cannot see the Bad assness of Grey knights, ripping through daemon filled worlds, destroying almost everything in thier way, eventually running out of ammo , camera zooms into the Sergent's face as he gets his Clint Eastwood voice and says.. Right turn Clyde (( prays someone gets the joke)) So someone out there in Dakka land please..please..help me understand this.

Arrathon wrote:I'm not sure where or if this has even been argued about or talked about but, Where in the fluff of 40k and or Grey Knights do Space monkeys who if i understand correctly are walking gun platforms come from? I myself see it as ridiculous. And please before i am bashed or looked upon as a band wagon hater, i rarely if ever join in on these conversations i normally hate everything lol, but all seriousness I have only been in this Universe(40k) for 3 and half 4 years now, and only reading the novels and attempting to learn all the Fluff the past 2. I..i just cannot see the Bad assness of Grey knights, ripping through daemon filled worlds, destroying almost everything in thier way, eventually running out of ammo , camera zooms into the Sergent's face as he gets his Clint Eastwood voice and says.. Right turn Clyde (( prays someone gets the joke)) So someone out there in Dakka land please..please..help me understand this.

The Jokaero has been in the fluff since Rogue Trader, so they're really, REALLY not something they just made up to make this Codex sell...

Cottonjaw wrote:Step 1: Tau Ethereals use their alleged mind control enslavement powers possess GK engineers
Step 2: Direct them to built Dreadknights
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit... for the greater good.

Well at least the tau would have some real battlesuits then, they used to be monsterous creatures in playtesting after all.

Ty much, but could you tell me where..or i suppose i could just Google it. yea, I'll just Google it.

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but am I the only one who finds it funny that 'Titan' is written on the Dreadknight's crotch?

Cottonjaw wrote:Step 1: Tau Ethereals use their alleged mind control enslavement powers possess GK engineers
Step 2: Direct them to built Dreadknights
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit... for the greater good.

Ethereals can mind control people who are genetically inclined to be mind controlled. It's a pheremone thing.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Sorry to go a bit off topic, but am I the only one who finds it funny that 'Titan' is written on the Dreadknight's crotch?

WINNAR!

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Sorry to go a bit off topic, but am I the only one who finds it funny that 'Titan' is written on the Dreadknight's crotch?

This has the potential to revolutionize the 'do Marines have genitalia?' debates!

Titan... lol. If I played GK I would replace the exposed terminator with a dreadnought casket, or the whole front of a normal dreadnought. The whole exposed "shoot me" idea of the dread-knight seems silly.