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Post by: gr1m_dan
I wonder what the financial figures will look like this time next year and if it really will impact GW.
They are obviously thinking
"Stop UK retailers selling our products cheaply to other countries and this will obviously make gamers buy from GW Stores at our crazy prices"
Don't think it's gonna work quite that easy.
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Post by: StarFyre
ok, so on the Rachkam forum, they had a couple moderators in the USA, who did bulk orders from Rackham (people had to prepay them first via paypal or cash in person) and then arranged to send stuff out to whomever ordered it.
Time to set something like that up.
I get stuff with a 20% discount off the USA price already so i think that ends up being the same as Maelstrom or better anyways.
Sanjay
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Post by: legoburner
The following ways around this seem possible:
1. Forwarding address - this is not ideal as you would still need UK payment details unless paypal will hide your address so that retailers are not forced to filter when they can detect it.
2. Ebay middlemen - these will be the real winners in all this - it only takes one person with a UK connection to be able to sell to the whole of a nation. Shipping will be a lot slower obviously, but it cannot be prevented and the UK retailers will not be able to detect it at all.
3. Forum collectives - I'm sure people will pop up as mail forwarders on behalf of other users in exchange for a small commission, trades, etc. I'm surprised one has not already popped up in the DCM forum already actually!
That's just off the top of my head. People ordering from overseas are already used to waiting thanks to shipping and customs, I dont see an extra week here or there making much of a difference once the supply lines get established.
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Post by: evilsponge
legoburner wrote:The following ways around this seem possible:
1. Forwarding address - this is not ideal as you would still need UK payment details unless paypal will hide your address so that retailers are not forced to filter when they can detect it.
2. Ebay middlemen - these will be the real winners in all this - it only takes one person with a UK connection to be able to sell to the whole of a nation. Shipping will be a lot slower obviously, but it cannot be prevented and the UK retailers will not be able to detect it at all.
3. Forum collectives - I'm sure people will pop up as mail forwarders on behalf of other users in exchange for a small commission, trades, etc. I'm surprised one has not already popped up in the DCM forum already actually!
That's just off the top of my head. People ordering from overseas are already used to waiting thanks to shipping and customs, I dont see an extra week here or there making much of a difference once the supply lines get established.
Is all that really worth the trouble, instead of just playing something else? I don't. And I don't think new players will either.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Its going to kick the "new player" market squarely in the face.
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Post by: Mithrax
Here is the letter that I will be mailing (constructive suggestions may be welcome)
To whom it may concern,
I am writing you this day to express my utter and complete disgust and frustration at the announced decision by Games Workshop to ban all Internet retailers in the United Kingdom from selling to countries outside of the European Union. As I am a Canadian customer, this directly affects me.
I have been playing Games Workshop games for over a decade now, and have been purchasing Citadel products for the same amount of time. I was introduced to the games through the efforts of your retail arm, specifically the Games Workshop store at Mapleview Mall in Burlington, Ontario (now closed). I had many enjoyable days learning the hobby and learning the game systems both with the employees there and the other customers.
A decade later, I was still playing the games, and introduced my wife and my son to the hobby as well, and it provided a good number of family game nights as their High Elves and Dwarfs would try to defeat my Orcs.
Because of work, I accepted a church position on a semi-remote part of the British Columbia coast. The nearest Independent Retailer is a forty minute ferry ride and two and a half hour drive through rugged mountainous terrain. As such, Internet retailers like Maelstrom Games and Wayland Games were vital to our continued enjoyment of the hobby. Primarily because of the low economic impact that they had upon us. Since moving out here, our food prices have increased by a third due to the remote location we live in, and due to the economic downturn money has been exceedingly tight. Citadel products were still affordable despite the annual, and seemingly inexplicable price increases because of Internet retailers from the United Kingdom. Retailers from Canada and the United States have good pricing value, but as a consumer with bills to pay and a family to feed I had to shop where my money got the most mileage, to use a colloquial expression.
Furthermore, I had hoped to offer a gaming club out here for local members of the communities that I serve, both youth and adult. Primarily, the communities I work with are Aboriginal, of the Kwakwaka'wakw peoples (specifically the Kwakiutl, 'Namgis, and
Musgamagw Tsawataineuk First Nations). Sadly, there are many challenges facing members of these communities, and while there are many opportunities for people to have hobbies, there are none like gaming clubs. Perhaps naively, I thought it would offer one more option for people to develop friendships and skills to avoid alternatives like drug and alcohol abuse. I was prepared to pay for most of these supplies out of my own pocket as disposable income for many people out here is almost non-existent
For the past year or three I have seen some quite inexplicable business decisions made by Games Workshop, not just limited to increasing price rises, a lack of a comprehensible marketing strategy, and perceived general contempt and lack of respect for customers as consumers. Since I as a customer do not feel respected and the value of goods for my money has reached its breaking point I shall share with you what I shall do:
1)I shall never at any point purchase a Games Workshop or Citadel product again.
2)I shall purchase the rulebooks for Warmachine by Privateer Press, and the Open Fire starter set from Battlefront Miniatures to learn the game system. I shall purchase them from Maelstrom Games and Wayland Games.
3)I shall write both the aforementioned game companies a letter with a project outline of my plan to introduce their hobbies to the communities I work in. Not as an attempt to solicit product but so that I may inform them of my intentions and attempts to offer hobby alternatives.
My memories of playing Games Workshop games are very fond, and for my wife and son's sake I shall continue to play the odd game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. But only for their sakes, and not for any other reason.
It is my hope that in the future the decision makers in Games Workshop corporate will get more in touch with their players rather than act in an oblivious and contemptuous manner.
Sincerely,
(Mithrax's Signature)
Edited to correct one or two errors I found already.
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Post by: evilsponge
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Its going to kick the "new player" market squarely in the face.
Heh, what new players? I haven't met any in my city in years.
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
Poor Maelstrom. They're getting pig roasted by GW and BF.
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Post by: Maelstrom Games
Nah. Don't feel sorry for us - we'll get over it, just like we got over:
1) GW's decision to stop us selling their products on eBay in 2009
2) Their reduction of trade sales prices by 10% the same year to internet retailers
3) Their decision to limit us to one order a week
4) Their further reduction of trade prices by 6% in 2010
5) Battlefront's decision not to sell to us
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
And, as many people have pointed out, there are many ways to get around this latest decision. Not that we can condone such a thing publicly.
Regardless, I'd like to say thank you to all those Rest of the World customers on Dakka who have supported us over the years - you will not be forgotten, and I apologise to you all that we cannot bring our service to you in the future.
Don't forget, too, that you can still buy everything else that's good in wargaming from us regardless of GW's decision.
Cheers
Rob Lane
MD, Maelstrom Games
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Post by: Ouze
Here's GWS office response: Pick up the can, citizen.
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Post by: insaniak
obsidianaura wrote:Not sure how this works out cheaper.
When buying from UK resellers a small amount at a time, then having to pay the shipping cost of having it sent to places like Australia and works out cheaper than buying it from local resellers who would be getting goods from the UK in bulk. (Maybe even cheaper if it's coming from a factory closer by.)
Resellers in Oz buy direct from GW OZ (well, those who aren't buying from overseas distributors because GW OZ won't give them a trade account or is too expensive). This thing is, GW OZ sets the wholesale prices... and they're not 50% of retail. Retail mark-up here is about 30%. But in most cases, the Oz wholesale price is around about equivalent to UK retail, due to the prices being set back when the Oz dollar was rubbish, and also in part due to Australians by and large having more free cash to spend on luxuries... so they charge what they think they can get away with.
So for stores like Maelstrom, that offer a discount plus free worldwide shipping, it's substantially cheaper to order from halfway around the world than to walk down the street and buy from a local store.
Which is nuts, but that's the way it is. Not everyone goes that route ( GW OZ still brings in a disproportionate amount of money compared to the much larger markets in the US and UK) but obviously either enough were doing it for it to start to become a problem, or the few remaining Australian games stores were complaining loudly enough for GW to decide they needed to do something about it.
It's a backwards solution, IMO, as it doesn't solve the underlying problem. Those people who already buy from Oz stores won't be affected in the slightest by this. Those buying from overseas will either stop buying, buy from alternate sources like eBay, or will not buy as much. So the local stores, who were already struggling at making a profit out of this stuff in a highly competitive and comparatively low-margin market, gain practically nothing.
A better solution, IMO, would have been a lowering of OZ retail (it doesn't have to be exactly on par with the rest of the world, just not ridiculously higher) and more effort put into improving Australian stores to make them places that gamers want to go to. Building an Oz casting plant (which has been discussed on and off since the early '90s, but has just never happened) would surely be a help as well, since it would remove the extra expense of shipping product from the US or UK and import tarifs and taxes. But no, regionalising sales and increasing prices seems to be the Codex-approved solution.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Noisy_Marine wrote:Poor Maelstrom. They're getting pig roasted by GW and BF.
Don't worry about Maelstrom.
They will more than make up in Infinity and Mantic sales what they lose in 40K.
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Post by: George Spiggott
I just read the Maelstrom email. Wow, just wow. Is this Maelstrom specific or everyone like the rumour suggested?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I am vindicated.
And I feel terrible for it.
'Outrage' isn't really the word that can be used to express what I feel right now. It's more a simultaneous feeling of being surprised, yet completely unsurprised. I will be writing to GW (physical letter) to both GWUK and GWOZ to express my dissatisfaction with this decision.
For now though I'll simply sum up my thoughts in the most vulgar way possible:
Games Workshop - GO F**K YOURSELVES!
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Post by: Izual
Uhmm, although i quit the GW hobby last year i've been lurkin dakka/WS for whatever news of new miniatures GW makes.
The sole reason i quit the GW hobby was because of their annual price rises, i started buying from GW ca Q1 2009, when 5th ed WH40K was still kinda young. I thought the prices for their products back then was manageable for my wallet, so i bought kinda large sums of mini's (atleast 1500+ SEK worth of minis each month). I continued to do so until their price rises started to happen, and for GW's "sorry for the 15-20% price increase but we have been doing bad this quarter, please, GO BUY MOAR MINIS SO WE CAN MAKE NEW ONES!" seemed to be their sole reason for their price hikes. So i began to shift down om my GW spending each month, down to 500~ SEK.
I continued to do so til i saw another one of those price hikes, what's the reason now i thought? "Oh, the british £ have gone down, so we gotta charge more for our minis! sorry ;_;". I the took the decision to quit solely because of their price hikes.
Seeing the rumours on the metal to resin shift just screams "sorry, because of the shift to resin, we will have to charge a little extra for the minis, molding equipment isn't cheap!" excuse.
Now, with the ban on shipping to other countries embargo, i think to myself "I got out in time."
I feel sorry for all the players who lives in the countries affected of this embargo.
tl;dr warning alas ;_;
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Post by: rich1231
I am trying not to post too much at the moment until we have our response prepared. I fully echo Rob's sentiments.
We both build solid, legal, well respected businesses whilst your main supplier actively plots your demise.
Ironically the supplier has an ethical trade policy.
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Post by: Worglock
Izual wrote:Uhmm, although i quit the GW hobby last year i've been lurkin dakka/WS for whatever news of new miniatures GW makes.
The sole reason i quit the GW hobby was because of their annual price rises, i started buying from GW ca Q1 2009, when 5th ed WH40K was still kinda young. I thought the prices for their products back then was manageable for my wallet, so i bought kinda large sums of mini's (atleast 1500+ SEK worth of minis each month). I continued to do so until their price rises started to happen, and for GW's "sorry for the 15-20% price increase but we have been doing bad this quarter, please, GO BUY MOAR MINIS SO WE CAN MAKE NEW ONES!" seemed to be their sole reason for their price hikes. So i began to shift down om my GW spending each month, down to 500~ SEK.
I continued to do so til i saw another one of those price hikes, what's the reason now i thought? "Oh, the british £ have gone down, so we gotta charge more for our minis! sorry ;_;". I the took the decision to quit solely because of their price hikes.
Seeing the rumours on the metal to resin shift just screams "sorry, because of the shift to resin, we will have to charge a little extra for the minis, molding equipment isn't cheap!" excuse.
Now, with the ban on shipping to other countries embargo, i think to myself "I got out in time."
I feel sorry for all the players who lives in the countries affected of this embargo.
tl;dr warning alas ;_;
That's nothing. I still have models from when a blister of 5 aspect warriors was $8.99 and a blister box of 7 Troopers + full command section was like $18. 30 Marines were $30 and you got 2 rhinos for $15.
And Greenskins looked like proper greenskins.
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Post by: BLACKHAND
I recently placed an order with Maelstrom for some infinity models for myself and a friend.
We spent 160 pounds for two 300 pt armies...more than enough for beginners to the game but the models were just two pretty. This purchase will allow us to play large scale games of Infinity and better yet we can split our armies and introduce others to the game.
We then downloaded the FREE rulebook from the Infinity website and used the FREE army builder that you can use online or download.
All in all we feel that by making the choice to try a different game we have stumbled into a different hobby altogether, one where the company that makes the game actually wants you to play and enjoy it.
I realize that GW is a business and needs to provide a return to their investors, but I share the bewilderment of many others on this thread as to the why they would do such a vindictive thing to their southern hemisphere customer base.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
George Spiggott wrote:I just read the Maelstrom email. Wow, just wow. Is this Maelstrom specific or everyone like the rumour suggested?
Everyone.
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Post by: derek
I'm guessing that the US online retailers didn't get hit because GW thinks they killed them in July, 2003?
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Post by: Worglock
derek wrote:I'm guessing that the US online retailers didn't get hit because GW thinks they killed them in July, 2003?
they killed enough of them that it's down to the "people that aren't paying full retail are the ones that aren't going to pay it under any circumstances."
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Boggles the mind that GW can hold management meetings, get through the whole thing without ever thinking "I wonder what consumer opinion will be?" Do the share-holders know about that, one wonders?
Maybe a bloc of Aussie gamers should start buying shares with the money they save by not buying the toys? Then GW might have to take more notice when they screw them over.
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Post by: penek
Anyone know - are its still possible do current DE pre-orders from Mael? (they become available ~4 June or so)
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Post by: Skartooth
Oh dear GW, I don't care if you are in it for the money this decision is just silly :(
1) GW's decision to stop us selling their products on eBay in 2009
2) Their reduction of trade sales prices by 10% the same year to internet retailers
3) Their decision to limit us to one order a week
4) Their further reduction of trade prices by 6% in 2010
5) Battlefront's decision not to sell to us
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. [Quote/]
Agreed 
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Post by: Frazzled
So they don't have online retailers in Australia, just GW?
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
I must admit I can't think of many other companies that try so very very hard to limit who can purchase their products or reduce their customer base.
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Post by: nuclealosaur
Typeline wrote:This is a fun game we get to play out now. How high can you raise your prices on your product until your customer just starts reproducing it on their own? Kneadite is cheap, recasting techniques are getting easier and cheaper as time goes a long. All you need is a few bits and you're in business.
Not that I'm advocating or take part in unscrupulous behavior I just like the idea of GW beheading themselves.
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Post by: Orock
I havent bought full retail from GW in years, as their prices are rediculous. They wonder why their profits go down quarter after quarter. Their business practices are a sham. White dwarf went from fun to adds for triple the price it was not long ago. And sadly im with HBMC on this that im suprisingly unsuprised at this move. Its kind of like letting a murderer off on early parole and you open up the paper a month later to find whops he killed again. The only thing im looking forward to anymore from GW is warhamemr 40k online. Although my expectations are no longer what they were. I guess thats good, its harder to be disapointed that way.
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Post by: derek
Orock wrote:The only thing im looking forward to anymore from GW is warhamemr 40k online. Although my expectations are no longer what they were. I guess thats good, its harder to be disapointed that way.
Is it because the entire MMO industry charges roughly $15 US a month for subscription fees, but you know that since it's GW it'll be $30-$45?
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Post by: A-P
Considering this and all the other recent...innovative decisions, I am genuinely puzzled.
Just how long can the GW management defend their positions for the shareholders?
There must be a limit to how long you can state "yes, we have made some improvements/cuts
and things should be markedly better by next year".
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Post by: kanelom
This goes out to all those who don't understand how STUPIDLY overpriced Oz GW is, our dollar is higher than the USD now.
10man SM Tac Squad AUD $62 USD $37.25
5 Man Termi Squad AUD $74 USD $50
1.00 AUD = 1.05624 USD
As someone originally from Oz, its gut wrenching trying to draw up a playable list and then actually buy it locally to support your LGS or resident GW. Especially when you know Maelstrom prices. There's no way anyone who has lurked the interwebs even a little would pay Oz prices. Whether on Maelstrom, Ebay or otherwise, the prices that others pay are just ridiculously lower.
Now as someone living in China, and not in one of the major coastal cities, buying from online independent retailers here is a nightmare. Language isn't an issue, terrible customer service is.
Our local gaming group just recently turned to Maelstrom, and what a breath of fresh air that was. Now though...
Now as a young father looking to head back this hobby, all joking aside, I may have to drop the hobby in order to support my family because i'm getting the feeling there won't be room for both in the budget.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Probably bears repeating: No need to quit "the hobby", just change games. Or even pay more for the rules and change figures.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Frazzled wrote:So they don't have online retailers in Australia, just GW?
I believe they have to buy at GW Oz prices, rather than GW UK prices (with the appropriate % retailer discount).
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Post by: Halderan
A few pages back, someone mentioned the online retail issue had 'gone quiet' in Australia. Well, that's because the government threw the issue to a Productivity Commission inquiry:
http://www.pc.gov.au/projects/inquiry/retail-industry
I encourage everyone to make a submission, they don't have to be long, just 1 page (try not to swear!) and just show the price difference we (used to) be able to get and point out the prices we have to face now that this choice is gone.
They might not be able to do anything for us (given it's EU/ UK jurisdiction, not Australia) but at least they can use the example to stop the Aust government do anything else silly re online retail and actually letting the consumer benefit. That, and it'd be bad press for GW.
oh and if you want to check the Commission's past view on this sort of thing, look for 'parallel imports of books'
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Post by: Kanluwen
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Probably bears repeating: No need to quit "the hobby", just change games. Or even pay more for the rules and change figures.
There's an important distinction. GW considers themselves the "Games Workshop Hobby". Nothing says arrogance like having your own name in the hobby you claim for yourself, right?
But the hobby of wargaming? No need to quit it just because GW's trying to make Australians and New Zealanders feel bad. There's plenty of games like West Wind's "Secrets of the Third Reich/Incursion", Corvus Belli's "Infinity", FFG's "Dust Tactics"(which is supposed to be getting a 'freestyle tabletop' game setup soon), or the everpopular Warmachine/Hordes from Privateer Press and Battlefront's "Flames of War"(although BF as a company is ehhhhh).
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Post by: zombie
derek wrote:I'm guessing that the US online retailers didn't get hit because GW thinks they killed them in July, 2003?
they will get hit when it is time for the contract to be renewed i'd expect.
Damn I did not expect GW contempt for their customers to be that great
I was considering returning since I did love the new dark eldar designs but I refuse to pay GWOZ extortion prices instead I will spend more on Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, and their upcoming Firestorm Invasion and restrict any GW products to second hand on ebay
Until GW equalizes the GWOZ prices to the rest of the world and at this point I dont care if they rise the rest of the world to match or drop OZ (& NZ, canada, and others) to either GW US or UK then GW management can go sit on my paintbrush and swivel.
Automatically Appended Next Post: derek wrote:Orock wrote:The only thing im looking forward to anymore from GW is warhamemr 40k online. Although my expectations are no longer what they were. I guess thats good, its harder to be disapointed that way.
Is it because the entire MMO industry charges roughly $15 US a month for subscription fees, but you know that since it's GW it'll be $30-$45?
and in OZ it will be $60 because it has to be a similar price to a tac squad because they can
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Post by: BrassScorpion
There's no surprise here, GW likes best whatever is closest to their HQ in Nottingham. It's always been that way. They treat the UK better than their other markets and they treat the northern hemisphere better than their other hemispheres. It's rampant geographic favoritism of the worst kind. It's just what you'd expect from "vacuous, toffee-nosed, malodorous, perverts!"  "And when we say there's not much cannibalism in the Royal Navy, we mean we have the problem relatively under control."
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Post by: carmachu
H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
Thats usually because they either own stock in GW or have their lips firmly planted on Kirby'S butt. Or both.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:Probably bears repeating: No need to quit "the hobby", just change games. Or even pay more for the rules and change figures.
There's an important distinction. GW considers themselves the "Games Workshop Hobby". Nothing says arrogance like having your own name in the hobby you claim for yourself, right?
But the hobby of wargaming? No need to quit it just because GW's trying to make Australians and New Zealanders feel bad. There's plenty of games like West Wind's "Secrets of the Third Reich/Incursion", Corvus Belli's "Infinity", FFG's "Dust Tactics"(which is supposed to be getting a 'freestyle tabletop' game setup soon), or the everpopular Warmachine/Hordes from Privateer Press and Battlefront's "Flames of War"(although BF as a company is ehhhhh).
Ebay the rulebooks and shop with Mantic (or whoever.)? Bf has its own "issues" about trying to be the Historical GW, but likewise 15mm WW2 is well-covered. Worrying though that because of their branding, GW try to stifle the whole hobby by claiming to BE the hobby. Wonder how many people actually believe that these days? T'internet is mighty.
On a related note..how much is that new GW Historical Kampfgruppe rulebook going to cost in Aus? £48 in the UK... Automatically Appended Next Post: carmachu wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
Thats usually because they either own stock in GW or have their lips firmly planted on Kirby'S butt. Or both.
I'd be pissed if I were a shareholder and I got told they'd just massacred their international sales.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:Probably bears repeating: No need to quit "the hobby", just change games. Or even pay more for the rules and change figures.
There's an important distinction. GW considers themselves the "Games Workshop Hobby". Nothing says arrogance like having your own name in the hobby you claim for yourself, right?
But the hobby of wargaming? No need to quit it just because GW's trying to make Australians and New Zealanders feel bad. There's plenty of games like West Wind's "Secrets of the Third Reich/Incursion", Corvus Belli's "Infinity", FFG's "Dust Tactics"(which is supposed to be getting a 'freestyle tabletop' game setup soon), or the everpopular Warmachine/Hordes from Privateer Press and Battlefront's "Flames of War"(although BF as a company is ehhhhh).
Ebay the rulebooks and shop with Mantic (or whoever.)?
Could work.
Bf has its own "issues" about trying to be the Historical GW, but likewise 15mm WW2 is well-covered.
Interestingly, BF was established by former GW execs. Same with Mantic.
Worrying though that because of their branding, GW try to stifle the whole hobby by claiming to BE the hobby. Wonder how many people actually believe that these days? T'internet is mighty.
I don't think many people seriously believe it. I know plenty of people have their issues with me, but I can say that I don't see Games Workshop or their games as the wargaming hobby.
The most visible aspect or popularized form of wargaming?
I don't know, but I think it's kind of up there. Like Dungeons and Dragons as the kind of 'most visible RPG' settings.
On a related note..how much is that new GW Historical Kampfgruppe rulebook going to cost in Aus? £48 in the UK...
Ouch. I dunno, I'd guess like 98 AUD?
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Post by: Orlanth
H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
Hey H' sorry GW feth you over. 
Come to think of it, I do understand the ploy and its probably not targeted at you and other Oz customers, you are merely the stick with which to beat the real target, cheap online sellers based in the UK. They can afford worldwide free shipping only because they get large orders from people like you. Postage in the Uk is expensive, and it took me a while to work out why companies like Maelstrom offer it when Uk postage let alone foreign will cut into the profit margins. The answer was simple, the cost of free shipping to me was a loss leader to buy GW stock at local trade prices and ship it in vast numbers to places like South Africa (which is having an even worse time of it than you are by all accounts) and Australia.
Do I agree with the policy, no, but I can see logic in the bean countery. It doesn't piss on UK sales, it doesnt piss on US sales, so the core market is preserved. It pisses on Maelstrom, and other free shippers who consequently will have to abandon free shipping and thus will lose the market share they are taking away from GW retail in Europe.
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Post by: carmachu
ArbeitsSchu wrote:
I'd be pissed if I were a shareholder and I got told they'd just massacred their international sales.
You would think so, but given some of the other GW decisions business wise, not sure they are. I dont think they'll recover nearly as well as when they removed all US internet carts. That had sales damages that lasted years.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Orlanth wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
Hey H' sorry GW feth you over.
Come to think of it, I do understand the ploy and its probably not targeted at you and other Oz customers, you are merely the stick with which to beat the real target, cheap online sellers based in the UK. They can afford worldwide free shipping only because they get large orders from people like you. Postage in the Uk is expensive, and it took me a while to work out why companies like Maelstrom offer it when Uk postage let alone foreign will cut into the profit margins. The answer was simple, the cost of free shipping to me was a loss leader to buy GW stock at local trade prices and ship it in vast numbers to places like South Africa (which is having an even worse time of it than you are by all accounts) and Australia.
Do I agree with the policy, no, but I can see logic in the bean countery. It doesn't piss on UK sales, it doesnt piss on US sales, so the core market is preserved. It pisses on Maelstrom, and other free shippers who consequently will have to abandon free shipping and thus will lose the market share they are taking away from GW retail in Europe.
UK sales includes indy retailers in the UK who obviously won't need the stock to sell overseas, and unless they address local prices there won't be a corresponding uptake in foreign sales. Reminds me of the mice with the chocolate biscuit factory in Bagpuss, pushing a biscuit in, to make a biscuit come out of the "factory". Only GW keep nibbling the biscuit.
39188
Post by: Bullockist
I have to say this move doesn't really surprise me. Gw Aus has insane prices and always has. After getting back into the hobby after a 15 year break i now have about 1000 points of orks, none of which i bought from GW. I also don't buy off Maelstrom because even with the discount the prices are still insane.
VIVA LE EBAY!
116
Post by: Waaagh_Gonads
All this makes the Krieg army I have planned even better value than Cadians.... which is sad.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Krieg have always been better value than Cadians.
14152
Post by: CT GAMER
Kroothawk wrote:Here the official statement by Maelstrom:
Hi there,
It's a sad day for us here at Maelstrom Games ( www.maelstromgames.co.uk) for we have the unpleasant task of informing all of our Rest of the World customers that Games Workshop will no longer allow us to sell their products to you - but here's an 18% off UK RRP voucher to soften the blow!
GW NO LONGER ALLOWING US TO SELL TO ROW CUSTOMERS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions, which come into force on the 31st of May 2011 restrict the sale - among other things - of all of their products to the European Union, although there are a couple of countries (such as Norway and Switzerland) that are geographically within Europe but not in the EU that we can still sell to.
The full list of countries that we can sell GW products to is as follows:
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom
Obviously this means that all of our faithful Games Workshop customers from the Anglosphere - Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States - as well as those from Brazil, Chile, Peru, Russia, Japan and South Korea (apologies for those countries I have missed out) will now miss out on our superb service and cheap prices, but I'm afraid the terms and conditions of our contract with Games Workshop mean that we have to say goodbye.
Goodbye 18% UK RRP Voucher
But it's a cracking goodbye! From today until midnight (GMT) on the 30th of May all our customers will be able to use a 18% off UK RRP discount voucher code on Games Workshop products only, so you stock up on all of those items you'll need for your Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 or Lord of the Rings armies - and of course all your paints and brushes!
(...)
Finecast
Onto other Games Workshop news. We'll shortly be stocking their superb Finecast range, which - if you didn't know already - is most of their deleted metal models, re-released in resin but somewhat more expensive than the original. Those will be on general sale on the 28th of May, for Games Workshop do not wish us to put them up for sale until then so they can keep up with demand.
Was I the only one that thought this sounded like someone suffering from "battered wife syndrome"?
Here is my translation:
Games Workshop just bent us over and shoved something large and painful into a place we can't mention, but hey we can't wait to stock and sell their smashing new line...
116
Post by: Waaagh_Gonads
Will GWUK and GWUS websites still mail out to 'Rest of the world'?
I cannot find anything in their mailing FAQs on the websites.
WOuld still be about 40% cheaper direct from them compared to retail GWOZ, even after shipping... which is still a bearable price to pay.
20887
Post by: xxvaderxx
Well to no ones suprice it happened. Its hard to consider that the only way GW is going to learn from this situation is by eroding their sales and player base, i dont give a crap about the company but they finally manage to put the last nail on the hobbys coffin down here. So its a loose loose situation for them and us.
34151
Post by: Bakerofish
CT GAMER wrote:Games Workshop just bent us over and shoved something large and painful into a place we can't mention, but hey we can't wait to stock and sell their smashing new line...
yep thats pretty much how I see it too. Thats the reason GW has the gall to pull something like this.
People will buy GW...no matter what
3989
Post by: Padre
As a longtime (18 years) Aussie hobbyist, I can only say...
FETH YOU, GAMES WORKSHOP.
Thank god for eBay, and paint stripper.
To Rob @ Maelstrom...you guys have been great to me over the years, and you will still get my business for all my non-GW hobby needs, like Vallejo products etc. I wish you all the best for the future.
Padre^.
778
Post by: penek
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Will GWUK and GWUS websites still mail out to 'Rest of the world'?
I cannot find anything in their mailing FAQs on the websites.
WOuld still be about 40% cheaper direct from them compared to retail GWOZ, even after shipping... which is still a bearable price to pay.
i tried make order to Russia from GWUK, its work till billing (i not finished order because i do not want order from GW) - shipping was 10GBP for 3 Venoms)
99
Post by: insaniak
Frazzled wrote:So they don't have online retailers in Australia, just GW?
Some of the games stores also run webstores. There are no online-only webstores (that I'm aware of) selling full GW product, as you have to have a B&M storefront before GW will give you a trade account. So the online stores are out thee, but they're either selling at full retail, or at best at the 10-20% discount that some of the B&M stores manage to sustain... which still leaves it considerably more expensive than buying from the UK.
9883
Post by: Cyporiean
Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:Probably bears repeating: No need to quit "the hobby", just change games. Or even pay more for the rules and change figures.
There's an important distinction. GW considers themselves the "Games Workshop Hobby". Nothing says arrogance like having your own name in the hobby you claim for yourself, right?
But the hobby of wargaming? No need to quit it just because GW's trying to make Australians and New Zealanders feel bad. There's plenty of games like West Wind's "Secrets of the Third Reich/Incursion", Corvus Belli's "Infinity", FFG's "Dust Tactics"(which is supposed to be getting a 'freestyle tabletop' game setup soon), or the everpopular Warmachine/Hordes from Privateer Press and Battlefront's "Flames of War"(although BF as a company is ehhhhh).
Just adding that we ship to a few Oz/NZ customers rather frequently, and are always happy to ship internationally. Kiwis will be out soonish...
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Hmm...
I’ve been thinking about this since I saw the news this morning and I think I have my final response.
For the longest time I’ve railed against GW’s ham-fisted fumbling, their insane business policies, their inability to make use of any sort of (effective) marketing strategy, their completely unnecessary insular behaviour and inane unwillingness to acknowledge that they are part of a larger hobby (rather than ‘the’ hobby), their puerile and nonsensical rules, the degradation and distillation of the fluff, and all the other blatantly stupid things they’ve done (like hiring Matt Ward). However, despite all this I have maintained that I still want GW to succeed. I mean, without them, the universe wouldn’t exist (buyouts from other companies notwithstanding), and it’s a universe I really enjoy. So even with the ‘blind leading the stupid’ methodology GW seems to take to running their business (into the ground...), I continued to state that despite what I said, I still want them to be a successful company.
No more.
I want them to FAIL!
I want them to CRASH AND BURN!
I want to see every new idea, every single idiotic new Codex, every Ward-esque fluff raping, every single bonkers business decision drive them closer and closer to COMPLETE AND UTTER RUIN!
I want them to cease operating in a commercial capacity due to complete and utter BANKRUPTCY (they’ve got moral bankruptcy, so commercial bankruptcy seems to be next, right?)!
I want to see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their apologists!!!
BYE
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Will GWUK and GWUS websites still mail out to 'Rest of the world'?
If they do it'll show just how much of a farce this all is.
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Matt Ward is spelt 'Mat' btw...
20880
Post by: loki old fart
I hope chapterhouse wins its law suit. And proves GW doesn’t own the IP it thinks it does.
It would be nice for companies to spring up all over the world, producing space marines etc.
99
Post by: insaniak
penek wrote:i tried make order to Russia from GWUK, its work till billing (i not finished order because i do not want order from GW) - shipping was 10GBP for 3 Venoms)
It wasn't effective immediately. You can still order from Maelstrom or Wayland right now as well.
778
Post by: penek
insaniak wrote:penek wrote:i tried make order to Russia from GWUK, its work till billing (i not finished order because i do not want order from GW) - shipping was 10GBP for 3 Venoms)
It wasn't effective immediately. You can still order from Maelstrom or Wayland right now as well.
then this question is meaningless until end of the month)
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
@HBMC.. bankruptcy suggests sale of assests.. including the IP. The Grimdark will live on.
292
Post by: Evilgnome
Hey GW! Will you now ban Forgeworld from selling their kits to the Southern Hemisphere?
It's now cheaper for me to buy the FW Warp Hunter, with the Fire Prism plastic kit included, than it is to buy a Fire Prism in Australia.
This is by a margin of $30AU. (about $31USD)
*seriously*
And you wonder why people were going to UK online retailers?
Thanks for treating your customers like cattle.
26818
Post by: Seriphis
Typical move from a monopolistic company... very very anti-competitive...
Unless all the pre-teens and teens suddenly stop going to games workshop stores in Australia, then there will be no real negative change, their profit margins will increase.
I would bet that GW OZ have been complaining to GW UK for the last couple of years that they've been losing their profit margins, and instead of recommending and allowing GW OZ to lower their wholesale buy price, they've decided to muscle out the competition in OZ.
GG GW, i've got family in the UK who can post out items to me at the same price as the shipping from the UK wholesalers... and i'm sure that some OZ and UK dakkites would be more than happy to get together and set up a procurement rink.
On another side,
For Maelstrom, will there be a prioritisation of orders to OZ for the time being?
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Cattle are treated quite humanely going to the slaughter. Research found that they are more calm and controllable if they can't see what is going to happen to them. GW are telling everyone quite clearly that they are all doomed.
1478
Post by: warboss
Evilgnome wrote:Hey GW! Will you now ban Forgeworld from selling their kits to the Southern Hemisphere?
It's now cheaper for me to buy the FW Warp Hunter, with the Fire Prism plastic kit included, than it is to buy a Fire Prism in Australia.
This is by a margin of $30AU. (about $31USD)
*seriously*
I think that right there shows best how absoletely boneheaded this particular move is.
20880
Post by: loki old fart
kanelom wrote:This goes out to all those who don't understand how STUPIDLY overpriced Oz GW is, our dollar is higher than the USD now.
10man SM Tac Squad AUD $62 USD $37.25
5 Man Termi Squad AUD $74 USD $50
1.00 AUD = 1.05624 USD
As someone originally from Oz, its gut wrenching trying to draw up a playable list and then actually buy it locally to support your LGS or resident GW. Especially when you know Maelstrom prices. There's no way anyone who has lurked the interwebs even a little would pay Oz prices. Whether on Maelstrom, Ebay or otherwise, the prices that others pay are just ridiculously lower.
Now as someone living in China, and not in one of the major coastal cities, buying from online independent retailers here is a nightmare. Language isn't an issue, terrible customer service is.
Our local gaming group just recently turned to Maelstrom, and what a breath of fresh air that was. Now though...
Now as a young father looking to head back this hobby, all joking aside, I may have to drop the hobby in order to support my family because i'm getting the feeling there won't be room for both in the budget.
If I lived in china. I'd cast my own 
722
Post by: Kanluwen
warboss wrote:Evilgnome wrote:Hey GW! Will you now ban Forgeworld from selling their kits to the Southern Hemisphere?
It's now cheaper for me to buy the FW Warp Hunter, with the Fire Prism plastic kit included, than it is to buy a Fire Prism in Australia.
This is by a margin of $30AU. (about $31USD)
*seriously*
I think that right there shows best how absolutely boneheaded this particular move is.
No, it shows how absurdly stupid the pricing structure is.
It also shows that people don't read before they post. GW is banning Maelstrom and other "independents" from selling outside of their respective 'regions'.
Forge World doesn't have production plants outside of the UK. They would effectively be selling to just the UK if GW were to apply this 'rule' to their own subcorporation.
I was wondering how long an accusation of "monopoly" would come. Good to know it wasn't that long.
But yeah. No matter what this one's going to bite them in the ass.
27987
Post by: Surtur
I cannot believe that they have the audacity to forbid online retailers to sell outside of Europe. Hell, they can't even sell to the US, a massive market no matter how you cut it. It's outrageous, it's greedy, it's vindictive, it's restrictive trade.
20880
Post by: loki old fart
Surtur wrote:I cannot believe that they have the audacity to forbid online retailers to sell outside of Europe. Hell, they can't even sell to the US, a massive market no matter how you cut it.
It's outrageous,
it's greedy,
it's vindictive,
it's restrictive trade.
It's GW 
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Kanluwen wrote:It also shows that people don't read before they post. GW is banning Maelstrom and other "independents" from selling outside of their respective 'regions'.
Forge World doesn't have production plants outside of the UK. They would effectively be selling to just the UK if GW were to apply this 'rule' to their own subcorporation.
Talking about reading properly: Maelstrom is allowed to sell to most of Europe, not just UK.
loki old fart wrote:Surtur wrote:I cannot believe that they have the audacity to forbid online retailers to sell outside of Europe. Hell, they can't even sell to the US, a massive market no matter how you cut it.
It's outrageous,
it's greedy,
it's vindictive,
it's restrictive trade.
It's GW
1
41664
Post by: ShatteredBlade
I really think this is going to come back and bite them on the rump.
26818
Post by: Seriphis
I was wondering how long an accusation of "monopoly" would come. Good to know it wasn't that long.
If its not a Monopoly its an Oligopoly... but their market practise suggests that internally they see themselves as a monopoly.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Kroothawk wrote:Kanluwen wrote:It also shows that people don't read before they post. GW is banning Maelstrom and other "independents" from selling outside of their respective 'regions'.
Forge World doesn't have production plants outside of the UK. They would effectively be selling to just the UK if GW were to apply this 'rule' to their own subcorporation.
Talking about reading properly: Maelstrom is allowed to sell to most of Europe, not just UK.
Talking about reading properly:
I never said they "weren't allowed to sell to most of Europe". You'll notice I said "region", not "the UK".
I was referring to Forge World in the second part, since y'know FW effectively is a just UK entity.
22749
Post by: Lycaeus Wrex
*Sigh* What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in one of their business meetings...Poor show GW. Really, really, REALLY poor show.
L. Wrex
14779
Post by: Inquisitor Earl
Does anyone know anything about pre orders? Maelstrom says their 18% voucher works on them but the new DE stuff doesn't arrive till after the cutoff date, does that mean I wont get them?
18614
Post by: The Plastic Surgeon
Run by monkeys.
See this money I planned on spending on 2 armies in the next 6 months? KISS IT BYE BYE
26
Post by: carmachu
H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they do it'll show just how much of a farce this all is.
We've already seen the farce in GW. Kill on online carts in the US, but left them elsewhere around the world. How is it any different?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
From this point forward, this is 40K to me. So is this. And this. And soon this as well.
I wash my hands of the reprehensible and unsustainable nightmare that is GW and fully embrace all that is Fantasy Flight Games.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:*Sigh* What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in one of their business meetings...Poor show GW. Really, really, REALLY poor show.
L. Wrex
"The operations in Australia are proceeding slower than normal, Lord Kirby."
"What? Why? Who DARES oppose us?"
"M'lord...it's...it's our own people."
" What?!"
"It's a company here in our own country! Maelstrom, sire. They're opposing us by letting the Australians counter us with discounts!"
"Those damnable wretches! Forbid them from selling to the Australians! We can't let them win! Damn the engines, full speed ahead!"
And that was the meeting where Tom Kirby decided Maelstrom is a traitor to the Imperium and absconded with plans for the Secret GW Kangaroo Bears.
True story.
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Aye, FFG is where its at.. let us hope they bring us Warhammer Quest sooner rather than later. 
37247
Post by: Vanq
Inquisitor Earl wrote:Does anyone know anything about pre orders? Maelstrom says their 18% voucher works on them but the new DE stuff doesn't arrive till after the cutoff date, does that mean I wont get them?
I just sent this question to them as well, I'm interested in the response. I only got back into 40k because of the new DE models...I'm more than willing to just buy out the rest of what I want in my army (Pre-orders included) and call it a day.
I'm an Australian, and I'm not paying AUS prices 
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Kanluwen wrote:Talking about reading properly:
I never said they "weren't allowed to sell to most of Europe". You'll notice I said "region", not "the UK".
I was referring to Forge World in the second part, since y'know FW effectively is a just UK entity.
"The rule" allows the UK company Maelstrom to sell to most of Europe, so it would allow the UK company FW to sell to most of Europe, not just UK. Right?
1478
Post by: warboss
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wash my hands of the reprehensible and unsustainable nightmare that is GW and fully embrace all that is Fantasy Flight Games.
You realize the next logical step is to require their licensees to enforce the same restrictions...
11
Post by: ph34r
Kanluwen wrote:Lycaeus Wrex wrote:*Sigh* What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in one of their business meetings...Poor show GW. Really, really, REALLY poor show.
L. Wrex
"The operations in Australia are proceeding slower than normal, Lord Kirby."
"What? Why? Who DARES oppose us?"
"M'lord...it's...it's our own people."
" What?!"
"It's a company here in our own country! Maelstrom, sire. They're opposing us by letting the Australians counter us with discounts!"
"Those damnable wretches! Forbid them from selling to the Australians! We can't let them win! Damn the engines, full speed ahead!"
And that was the meeting where Tom Kirby decided Maelstrom is a traitor to the Imperium and absconded with plans for the Secret GW Kangaroo Bears.
True story.
GW's business meetings start with a hooded figure giving out cryptic orders, and ends with a great trade embargo:
827
Post by: Cruentus
Wow. I was already leaning toward historicals, as the Perrys, Victrix, Warlord, and others produce nice stuff, in plastic, at a much better value.
Then this, from Maelstrom's e-mail announcement:
Finecast
Onto other Games Workshop news. We'll shortly be stocking their superb Finecast range, which - if you didn't know already - is most of their deleted metal models, re-released in resin but somewhat more expensive than the original. Those will be on general sale on the 28th of May, for Games Workshop do not wish us to put them up for sale until then so they can keep up with demand.
So they're confirming that the now oop metals will be released as resin (well, most of them), and be "somewhat more expensive than the original." Considering some of the GK characters were around $22-24, how much can they be? Wait, don't answer that.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
warboss wrote:You realize the next logical step is to require their licensees to enforce the same restrictions...
Good luck with that.
Maelstrom et al. are all forms of distribution, buying stock from the publisher ( GW, in this instance). FFG are their own publishing house, with their own store selling their own products. They buy nothing outside of the licence from GW. When and where FFG products get sold will be entirely up to FFG. Woe betide GW if they attempt to get Maelstrom and other from selling FFG books outside of the UK ‘region’.
And may the Emperor have nothing but fury for their blackened souls if their next step is to go after 3rd Party bitz services and make them region specific.
3725
Post by: derek
H.B.M.C. wrote:
And may the Emperor have nothing but fury for their blackened souls if their next step is to go after 3rd Party bitz services and make them region specific.
This is my greatest fear to come out of this. I almost exclusively buy bits from UK based retailers and I'm suddenly worried they will be given the same mandate.
26204
Post by: candy.man
Forget straw breaking the camel’s back, this looks like a case of GW breaking the camel’s back with a sledgehammer. This is pretty much a permanent deal breaker for me.
I’ll probably still keep track on 40k on forums like Dakka but I’ll also start looking at other game companies. Black Crusade from FFG is coming out soon and looks pretty good so I might start looking into FFG products as well.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
H.B.M.C. wrote:And may the Emperor have nothing but fury for their blackened souls if their next step is to go after 3rd Party bitz services and make them region specific.
GW is currently hiring IP lawyers to concentrate on their core business, which is sueing their fan-base
Otherwise they would be hiring casters, sculptors and game developers
Just assume that the GW management wants to purge the earth of all GW IP, then all makes sense suddenly
99
Post by: insaniak
Surtur wrote:Hell, they can't even sell to the US, a massive market no matter how you cut it.
That's kind of the point, though... they want that 'massive market', along with the 'not as massive but still pretty darn big market' in Oz to be buying in their own regions.
For what it's worth, so far as accounting and supporting local business goes, this policy does make a certain amount of sense. But that doesn't make it any less aggravating when their worldwide pricing structure is so ridiculous.
1870
Post by: Red
OMG I'm so upset I worked for them for 7 years and it pisses me off so much that they are so retraded. I have family in England so Im starting my own underground railroad but I shouldn't have to
1478
Post by: warboss
H.B.M.C. wrote:warboss wrote:You realize the next logical step is to require their licensees to enforce the same restrictions...
Good luck with that.
Maelstrom et al. are all forms of distribution, buying stock from the publisher ( GW, in this instance). FFG are their own publishing house, with their own store selling their own products. They buy nothing outside of the licence from GW. When and where FFG products get sold will be entirely up to FFG. Woe betide GW if they attempt to get Maelstrom and other from selling FFG books outside of the UK ‘region’.
And may the Emperor have nothing but fury for their blackened souls if their next step is to go after 3rd Party bitz services and make them region specific.
All they need to do is include that restriction in their next contract with FFG and say its non-negotiable. They can't retroactively apply it obviously but it certainly seems like they're moving towards more control of their products even after they sell it to a middleman.
38573
Post by: Silvio
i am sad about this and how this mess with my hobby (painting collecting and gaming). I am from brazil, there´s no single hobby store selling GW in this country. We all depend on online retailers. Now Without Wayland and Maelstrom we are forced to buy from gw or other webstore from USA with expensive shipping.
in our community of gamers i am proposing to give some time toGW to think about it and stay away frombuying from them for the next 6months or so and during this tme try new games, new ranges (Mantic for exaple is my choice for an fantasy orc army).
I believe that staying away trying new stuff and not giving GW money will make them realize that their decision sucked.
My community is small, butif everybody did that I believe we will be at least a little pain in the neck.
GW, next 6 months, thanks to you, I will be looking for new games.
99
Post by: insaniak
Kroothawk wrote:GW is currently hiring IP lawyers to concentrate on their core business, which is sueing their fan-base
Otherwise they would be hiring casters, sculptors and game developers
GW Website careers section wrote:
Forecast Manager Vacancy
Illustrator Vacancy
IP Lawyer Vacancy
Junior Contracts Lawyer Vacancy
Trainee Figure Painter Vacancy
Trainee Miniatures Designer Vacancy
28857
Post by: Alastair78
I'm wondering if there are possible international trade laws being broken here? I mean I have the cash. I'l like to buy your product, but you won't allow a site to sell it too me (ie GW doesn't have any input into an independant company's price structure). At least I now have my last order into Maelstrom now.
17213
Post by: gendoikari87
filbert wrote:Surely even GW wouldn't countenance such a move...
wayland, malestrom and the others inside the EU can only sell to the EU now. or at least as of may 31st. feth you GW, feth you.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Have a sense of humour insaniak.
99
Post by: insaniak
I have a sense of humour. It's possible to take the one-eyed approach to an extreme where it stops being amusing, though.
116
Post by: Waaagh_Gonads
Will this also apply to US internet retailers?
They are comparable to UK independent prices, shipping was the only thing holding me back from the Warstore and others (Battleroad etc).
27987
Post by: Surtur
insaniak wrote:Surtur wrote:Hell, they can't even sell to the US, a massive market no matter how you cut it.
That's kind of the point, though... they want that 'massive market', along with the 'not as massive but still pretty darn big market' in Oz to be buying in their own regions.
For what it's worth, so far as accounting and supporting local business goes, this policy does make a certain amount of sense. But that doesn't make it any less aggravating when their worldwide pricing structure is so ridiculous.
Well economically speaking, it is in the consumer's best interest to pursue to best deal. As a US customer my best deal was Mantic. I could potentially save up to 15% if I bought a massive amount and free shipping even to the US. It would take 2-3 weeks to get here, but I saved some money. As a consumer I decided that it would be in my best interests to purchase from Mantic. If local businesses cannot compete with that, it is up to them to address the need. As for local businesses, GW is trying to be the only local business.
292
Post by: Evilgnome
Kanluwen wrote:warboss wrote:Evilgnome wrote:Hey GW! Will you now ban Forgeworld from selling their kits to the Southern Hemisphere?
It's now cheaper for me to buy the FW Warp Hunter, with the Fire Prism plastic kit included, than it is to buy a Fire Prism in Australia.
This is by a margin of $30AU. (about $31USD)
*seriously*
It also shows that people don't read before they post. GW is banning Maelstrom and other "independents" from selling outside of their respective 'regions'.
My original post was mocking GW's embargo and pricing, I don't really think they would stop FW trading outside the UK.
Mind you, if we point out the fact we can get cheaper plastic kits from FW I'm sure they'll introduce special pricing for orders from Australia.
36306
Post by: VenerableBrotherPelinore
As an Australian gamer, I died a little inside when I woke up and read this.
However, I don't really understand the logic for it. Not only are they cutting down sales from people buying from independant retailers, but they're not really likely to gain that much in home-grown sales....Forgeworld is a cheaper option than buying here in Australia.
(Comparison:
Standard Dreadnought: $74 AU
Forgeworld Dreadnought: $39.12 AU before postage.)
It ends up similar pricing to buy Forgeworlds Pre-Heresy range of Space Marines as it does a normal Space Marine Tactical Squad....
So, if I continue, which to be honest I likely will as nothing else really takes my fancy, and I don't just have relatives in the UK ship models to me, I'm still more likely to buy from Forgeworld than GW stores here.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Evilgnome wrote:Kanluwen wrote:warboss wrote:Evilgnome wrote:Hey GW! Will you now ban Forgeworld from selling their kits to the Southern Hemisphere?
It's now cheaper for me to buy the FW Warp Hunter, with the Fire Prism plastic kit included, than it is to buy a Fire Prism in Australia.
This is by a margin of $30AU. (about $31USD)
*seriously*
It also shows that people don't read before they post. GW is banning Maelstrom and other "independents" from selling outside of their respective 'regions'.
My original post was mocking GW's embargo and pricing, I don't really think they would stop FW trading outside the UK.
Mind you, if we point out the fact we can get cheaper plastic kits from FW I'm sure they'll introduce special pricing for orders from Australia.
Frankly...I don't think they'd care if you order from GW or FW.
And they already pimpslap everyone with shipping in many cases.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
I have contacted several US indie online companies and the embargo applies to them as well, they are banned from foreign export to those nations on the embargo list.
I looked hard and thought there is an opportunity for me to finish off my Chaos Army simply by shopping on EBay, there will now be a flood of angry former Warhammer players dumping their gear on Ebay to earn some folding to switch to Warmachine and Hordes.
So i'll hang in there afterall, and give it 6 months and see how it works out.
37242
Post by: Portaljacker
Achaylus72 wrote:I have contacted several US indie online companies and the embargo applies to them as well, they are banned from foreign export to those nations on the embargo list.
Does that include Canada as well? Of so then they fething hate us. The GW manager here has said him and the other Canadian managers have been fighting to get our prices closer to the US prices, he said it's hurting the store's sales quite a bit.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
This is just beyond battered wife syndrome.
We have now reached Stockholm syndrome.
Did some calculations , because how weak american dollars are atm , we are actually fine from ordering from warstore USA instead of maelstrom UK even at 18% off
21593
Post by: DiscoVader
Whelp.
This was kind of a crushing thing to see to after having literally just picked up the DE codex with the intent of eventually starting a small army.
There goes that plan.
42653
Post by: Wise Guy Sam
I have a feeling that GW will die in most areas of the world other then the UK and even then, may be hard for them to recover without a number of changes.
Its fun to say they havent thought this through at all but I'm sure they assume that the people who buy from online retailers will just by from GW now. I can't imagin many people will, knowing what price they/we used to get from such quality sites.
Also the zero marketing thing they have developed where no info on upcoming releases will be available till basicaly release day in WD!
And lets not forget the new citadel finecast. Same stuff, new weight, lower production cost, higher price! (unsuprised unamused).
Sure their are ways around the embargo but its still a kick in the teeth. It really shouldn't be so hard to play a tabletop wargame. Sounds like short of a Han Solo inspired figure to smuggle us cheap plastic the hobby will be out of reach.
The biggest issue is it doesnt just effect what I can buy but what my friends can buy which may cause them to lose intrest. Even if I am stoic with my hobby Its not worth it if they don't bother with it anymore.
Feeling pretty flat.
Wonder if my Dark Eldar advance order will arrive. 
6866
Post by: StarFyre
For people in canada (and maybe USA), i think this place has better prices than maelstrom:
http://stores.ebay.com/MARKS-COMICS-AND-COLLECTIBLES
i got my huge GK army from there.
6 boxes terms
6 boxes reg
2 dreadknights
draigo
crowe
codex
when i calculated it vs the price of buying this in a cdn store location (after taxes), it was like 40 - 45% discount from the cdn GW price.
(it's cause USA prices are cheaper, and this place offers 20% off on top of the USA price).
Sanjay
10345
Post by: LunaHound
StarFyre wrote:For people in canada (and maybe USA), i think this place has better prices than maelstrom:
http://stores.ebay.com/MARKS-COMICS-AND-COLLECTIBLES
i got my huge GK army from there.
6 boxes terms
6 boxes reg
2 dreadknights
draigo
crowe
codex
when i calculated it vs the price of buying this in a cdn store location (after taxes), it was like 40 - 45% discount from the cdn GW price.
(it's cause USA prices are cheaper, and this place offers 20% off on top of the USA price).
Sanjay
Alittle bit more expensive than warstore , doesnt come with box which could be good for Canadians if the seller declares it as used item lol xD
Though selection is really low , almost nothing to choose from?
For any Canadians that wants to save by taking the offer from Maestrom , i recomend bulking out the Troop / Core choices , as UK pricing is low for them , and quite abit higher ( no extra savings )
in comparison for every other units.
18614
Post by: The Plastic Surgeon
Oh missed the bit about resins.
Here! Have some cancer while we cut our costs dramatically and have a price rise too!
Battleroad have free shipping over a reasonable threshold even for international but not sure how much their discount is. Mini Market is 25% off but you pay post. Might work out to be the same as Maelstrom and Wayland for us aussies if the dollar maintains parity.
Mini Market
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
So on a somewhat related note, what's so bad about Battlefront?
9504
Post by: sonofruss
They pulled all there product from maelstrom because of a sale.
11275
Post by: NeoMaul
I live in Australia and if I was still playing 40k I'd would stop now. However I actually quit about 8 months ago and started playing warmachine/hordes.
I always thought I'd never leave 40k no matter how much of a dick GW were, the theme of 40k was just too attractive.
However after picking up warmachine I have realised that its actually just as cool as 40k and the rules are just as fun and much better written.
I'm also looking into malifaux and infinity which I never would of considered before because I was stuck in the mentality of 40k being the only game worth playing. I just have to say it feels really refreshing to be exploring a whole variety of war games.
14779
Post by: Inquisitor Earl
I'll repeat it as people are too busy repeating the same thing for it to get noticed.
Does anyone know what happens to pre-orders placed with either Wayland or Maelstrom for items such as the new Dark Eldar stuff?
If we have paid, does that mean we still get sent the product even though it's after the cutoff date?
I'm sure i'm not the only one in this situation.
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
Inquisitor Earl wrote:I'll repeat it as people are too busy repeating the same thing for it to get noticed.
Does anyone know what happens to pre-orders placed with either Wayland or Maelstrom for items such as the new Dark Eldar stuff?
If we have paid, does that mean we still get sent the product even though it's after the cutoff date?
I'm sure i'm not the only one in this situation.
*Shrug* Did you contact Maelstrom about it?
14779
Post by: Inquisitor Earl
That's the point, I dont want to ask the same question that others surely have emailed them about. They are busy at the best of times.
21593
Post by: DiscoVader
Inquisitor Earl wrote:That's the point, I dont want to ask the same question that others surely have emailed them about. They are busy at the best of times.
I'd just go ahead and e-mail them, dude. I totally feel the same about bothering folks when they're busy, but better to bother them and get a reply from the source then have to wring your hands and wait to hear from someone else.
40741
Post by: Worglock
I'm not familiar with laws in the empire as it were, but it seems wierd that GW could legally forbid someone from doing business with other places that are still counted as being vaguely "under the crown".
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Worglock wrote:I'm not familiar with laws in the empire as it were, but it seems wierd that GW could legally forbid someone from doing business with other places that are still counted as being vaguely "under the crown".
I don’t think there’s anything ‘legal’ about it (nor am I implying that there’s anything illegal about it either). In other words, I doubt there’s any law that could stop them from selling overseas just as there’s probably no law that gives GW the power force it. What there is is a trade agreement that basically says “ You can only sell our products here, or not sell our products at all.”
Unethical, sure. But going against any specific laws? I doubt it.
Of course someone more familiar with the laws of the United Kingdom is free to come in here and contradict me – I’d be happy to find out the real legalities of this (assuming there are any to begin with).
39195
Post by: Asuron
H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually what saddens me the most right now is that there are people here (and elsewhere) who will both defend and celebrate this action of GW's; people who will attempt to rationalise, explain a way and - dare I say it - apologise for GW.
Happened to me on BOLS
Some idiot actually tried to say that this is an entirely reasonable move for them to do and thats its all part of the free markets
In fact it also happened on Warsser, someone said its the premium we pay for the Hobby
You can't win H.B.M.C, you cant win
Not even when the company craps on their face
9934
Post by: Lork Skystompa
While I don't post here very often , this decision has really enraged me . I'll certainly be giving alot more time to the other game systems I play and seriously have to consider my purchases if any , from now on .
43327
Post by: j3r03n
Not sure if anyone had actually posted this already but:
Hi there,
It's a sad day for us here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) for we have the unpleasant task of informing all of our Rest of the World customers that Games Workshop will no longer allow us to sell their products to you - but here's an 18% off UK RRP voucher to soften the blow!
GW NO LONGER ALLOWING US TO SELL TO ROW CUSTOMERS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions, which come into force on the 31st of May 2011 restrict the sale - among other things - of all of their products to the European Union, although there are a couple of countries (such as Norway and Switzerland) that are geographically within Europe but not in the EU that we can still sell to.
The full list of countries that we can sell GW products to is as follows:
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom
Obviously this means that all of our faithful Games Workshop customers from the Anglosphere - Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States - as well as those from Brazil, Chile, Peru, Russia, Japan and South Korea (apologies for those countries I have missed out) will now miss out on our superb service and cheap prices, but I'm afraid the terms and conditions of our contract with Games Workshop mean that we have to say goodbye.
But it's a cracking goodbye! From today until midnight (GMT) on Monday the 30th of May all of our customers will be able to use a 18% off UK RRP discount voucher code on Games Workshop products only, so you stock up on all of those items you'll need for your Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 or Lord of the Rings armies - and of course all your paints and brushes!
YOUR GW-GOODBYE VOUCHER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note that this voucher will work on all the items within our webstore, but:
- not on any Games Workshop Direct items
- and additionally, not on anything within our eBay store.
Apart from the above, the voucher will work on pre-orders and, crucially, you'll still earn Moneyback - although tiered discounts are disabled when using a voucher of course.
Your voucher code is: GW-ROW
To use this voucher simply register on the webstore, www.maelstromgames.co.uk (if you haven't already), copy and paste the code into the appropriate field in your basket when you have selected the items you want, press 'REDEEM', and the webstore will do the rest. You are not limited to one purchase and, indeed, we would ask you to recommend us to your friends with this voucher!
Remember though that this voucher will only work on Games Workshop products - specifically, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Warhammer 40,000, Lord of the Rings, Citadel Hobby and Black Library products.
Phew! That should, at least, soften the blow for you all - and, of course, no other company restricts sales geographically, so you can always grab your Hordes and Warmachine and, of course, BaneLegions products from us!
Happy Ordering!
UNSUBSCRIBE
----------------------------------------------------------
If you feel you have received this e-mail in error or do not wish to be a part of our mailing list, simply visit the Mailing List page at http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=mai and unsubscribe from there by entering your e-mail address. You will not be mailed again and we would like to apologise for any annoyance we have caused to you by sending this e-mail.
MAELSTROM GAMES
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many benefits to ordering with us, including:
- A very competitive 10-15% discount from RRP on most items
- The Moneyback loyalty scheme to reward return customers
- Our promise to match any other UK webstore prices
- FREE postage, unless you choose recorded or insured delivery
- Complete online order history
- Up to the minute news on wargaming products
- The ability to pre-order items
MAELSTROM GAMES LTD
contact@maelstromgames.co.uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matlock Mill, Hamilton Way, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. NG18 5BU. United Kingdom
For online customer service, telephone: (+44) 01623 238 919
For the physical store, telephone: (+44) 01623 629 425
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered in England and Wales as a Company
Company No.: 4724863
VAT Reg No.: 804 3874 30
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Office: 106 Carter Lane, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. NG18 3DH
Found that in my Inbox this morning, so we can rule out the rumour bit as far as I can tell.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
It's been posted at least 3-4 other times.
Including by Maelstrom themselves.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kanluwen wrote:It's been posted at least 3-4 other times.
Including by Maelstrom themselves.
Some people are probably still in shock Kan, so are posting it again not so much to tell other people, but just to convince themselves that it isn't some sort of elaborate hoax.
43327
Post by: j3r03n
That and I just rolled out of bed and am about to head for work, figured id drop in what little info I had as opposed to try and read 15 pages worth of posts.
But yes, this royally sucks.
43672
Post by: JMMelo
I know that I am in a rather confortable position to propose this, since there is no GW store anywhere near me (I live in the Argentinian interior, actually closer to Chile), but seeing that our Aussie coleages are much more directly affected than most of us, are a relatively large market for GW, and also have the dubious honor of being one of the only countries affected by this embargo that actually HAVE a native GW, how about a good, old-fashioned protest?
You dont need a lot... 3 or 4 guys, some lawn chairs and a few posters, with stuff like "Buying here you are paying 2X more for the same products" and "Why GW discriminate against Australia?", and sit out in front of your local GW...
Send a letter or email to your local newspaper and/or TV station... My wife was a TV producer and they are HUNGRY for stuff like that. If this generated some visibility, or, craziest thing ever, a lot of these started happening, generating more buzz, that MIGHT actually do some good. Hell, maybe even GW would notice.
Surely some dads would at least prevent their 12 and 13-year-olds from entering that weird looking store with the fat, unshaven guys sitting outside, and that would also cost GW new customers! (Sorry, I couldnt resist that last one... If it helps, I am also somewhat overweight and unshaven )
292
Post by: Evilgnome
Inquisitor Earl wrote:I'll repeat it as people are too busy repeating the same thing for it to get noticed.
Does anyone know what happens to pre-orders placed with either Wayland or Maelstrom for items such as the new Dark Eldar stuff?
If we have paid, does that mean we still get sent the product even though it's after the cutoff date?
Maelstrom says you can still pre-order stuff with their 'Bye GW discount', for delivery after the cut off date, so you're probably ok.
Still, check their site: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=new&ref=212
12313
Post by: Ouze
Guys, it's not his fault he hits us. We just make him so mad!
2648
Post by: Fenriswulf
Here is the new US/Canadian pricing.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=tIytonRUpm6fRkxpIjqcDzQ#gid=0
Wow. Resin versions of metal miniatures (which should be cheaper) are more expensive. And so is plastic. And so are codex's/army books.
So for the trifecta, we have GW stopping countries which pay 40-50% more on their product from obtaining it from a much more cost effective source, have removed metal miniatures completely and switched to plastic/resin whilst simultaneously increasing the price on them, and also now plastic and paper products also get a price hike.
It's like they don't want anyone to buy their stuff at all.
Also, epic combo-punch to the nuts on the Necron Battleforce set. $18 increase ($25 in Canada)! Woot!
41722
Post by: Solourus
Is there any one on this thread who lives in Adelaide, Australia and plays a non-gw "war game"?
If so could you introduce me to said game, maby some time this weekend or next week?
6987
Post by: Chimera_Calvin
Gutted does not even begin to describe my feelings this morning (and I'm not affected by this ridiculous embargo - I only live in Barnsley, 45 mins away from GW HQ in Nottingham).
The level of arrogance and contempt for their customers adopted by GW has reached epic proportions and the short-sightedness of their business model is impossible to fathom.
Do they actively want their company to fail? Is it policy to ensure that they alienate as many existing customers as possible whilst simultaneously making it harder each year to attract new ones? Do they really think that its good economic sense to be putting up prices and restricting trade for non-essential goods at a time when people's disposable income is shrinking due to the global downturn?
I will be writing a letter of complaint and strongly encourage all those in the hobby to do the same, whether this affects you directly or not. GW needs to realise that they are nothing without their customers and that sooner or later (and I find myself increasingly hoping that its sooner) the company will inevitably crash and burn unless they overhaul the way they do business.
Gamers all over the world are becoming increasingly aware of the non- GW options and those who are not being driven out of the hobby altogether by the simple need to pay for rent/food/bills are leaving in droves for GW's competitors - long may this trend continue.
It has been said many times that nothing will change with GW until their bottom line is affected. Given this decision on independant retailers and the planned price rises with the metal-to-resin switch (despite resin being a cheaper raw material) I wonder if this has not started to happen - GW hardly has the healthiest set of company accounts. What they need to be made to understand is why this is happening and that it will only get worse for them if they keep moving down this road.
My sympathies to all those who will lose out as a result of this assinine decision, and as for my money, its time to evaluate the gaming alternatives....
18614
Post by: The Plastic Surgeon
There's a general price hiike AS WELL?!?!
Can anyone confirm that this embargo affects US indies too?
12313
Post by: Ouze
Guys, don't write letters, don't organize boycotts, and don't send angry emails. Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff. That's all that will work, period.
As for me, when Necrons are released, I'll pick and choose the models I like, assuming they don't get Ward'd in the Codex. This won't make me quit, but I certainly won't be picking out the impulse purchases I used to, and am much less inclined to get anything that doesn't fit a significant void in an army; essentially, not "collecting" anymore.
30023
Post by: Darkjediben
I'm right there with you Ouze...I've committed to a Necron Army come the next update, already bought a battleforce and a generous friend gave me some destroyers and a monolith...but I will definitely not be buying willy nilly just to try stuff out like I did with my Marines, it'll pretty much be 'what can't I live without/proxy for the moment'. They're gonna see a pretty steep dropoff in sales to me, assuming I buy anything at all. I might just try and make do with a destroyer wing for the time being.
11914
Post by: Nephilem
I think my next purchase (and sadly final) purchase from Maelstrom may well be my last GW related purchase for a very long time. Of course, adding to the pile will just make me less inclined to build all of it.
So beyond being insane and trying to alienate their customers even more, has GW given any reason behind this sudden embargo?
27987
Post by: Surtur
Only GW would celebrate a medium change with a price hike and to celebrate the price hike instigate a trade restriction and to celebrate the trade restriction throw another price hike party.
9194
Post by: zombie
Nephilem wrote:I think my next purchase (and sadly final) purchase from Maelstrom may well be my last GW related purchase for a very long time. Of course, adding to the pile will just make me less inclined to build all of it.
So beyond being insane and trying to alienate their customers even more, has GW given any reason behind this sudden embargo?
they are all employed in secret by PP with the aim that once GW is destroyed PP will take over the gaming world
Well it makes as much sense as proactive stupidity GW management seem to be pursuing.
21425
Post by: Candroth
Glad I'm switching to buying bitz off of Ebay for what I need, these days. Yikes.
38358
Post by: Vimes
Nephilem wrote:So beyond being insane and trying to alienate their customers even more, has GW given any reason behind this sudden embargo?
Well, best guess would be the delusion that, once they have no access to the regular priced stuff from europe or the US, the people in the southern hemisphere (like our dear Australian and New Sealandian friends) will have no other choice but to pay the insane prizes they ask for over there.
And in all seriousness, I managed to defend quite some decisions by GW, but this?
I guess my times of collecting GW armies are done. Collecting as in "starting new armies or needlessly expanding existing armies".
I won´t stop buying GW models, or playing the game, but new models? Not as long as I have unpainted stuff. And certainly not from GW directly, or at full prize.
Considering I have a tremendous backlog of unpainted minis, and two Privateer Press armies in the works as well, it´ll be quite some time before I´m going to buy something but paints from GW again. Any instore "loyality" purchases in a GW store not to mention.
41268
Post by: Deepeyes
I'm not giving up on 40k as I just love the game too much but I am looking around for alternatives.
39444
Post by: gr1m_dan
Hi all,
I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread or another relating to it stating how mad I am but having slept on it...I am just sad BUT this has happened before in other industries.
I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front. Basically the online boom sent many shops out of business because they couldn't cope with the massive discounts online guys were doing. At one point an online music shop was making around £5 on a Shure SM58 mic whilst before physical shops were making a good healthy £30/40 on them. Shops simply couldn't compete and then the local music scene struggled. Things are turning around now though and it seems a lot of physical shops have eventually caught up with the internet and offering good deals themselves on their own websites.
I can see why GW have done it but I don't think they've thought it through. It seems a knee jerk reaction to bad sales.
38358
Post by: Vimes
gr1m_dan wrote:I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front.
The thing is: GW is allready doing this afaik. And has been doing it for quite some time now. And this not even close to the problem at hand.
The problem now is simple:
GW charges totally inappropiate prizes in countries like Australia and New Zealand, completely out of touch of any conversions rate. This results in the guys down under paying twice or so the price we pay.
This results in many people ordering from europe or the US. This leads to less sales down under. This leads to GW thinking "How can we stop this". THIS leads to this decision, which will most likely NOT be followed by adapting the prizes to the northern hemisphere.
40950
Post by: Paul
gr1m_dan wrote:Hi all,
I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread or another relating to it stating how mad I am but having slept on it...I am just sad BUT this has happened before in other industries.
I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front. Basically the online boom sent many shops out of business because they couldn't cope with the massive discounts online guys were doing. At one point an online music shop was making around £5 on a Shure SM58 mic whilst before physical shops were making a good healthy £30/40 on them. Shops simply couldn't compete and then the local music scene struggled. Things are turning around now though and it seems a lot of physical shops have eventually caught up with the internet and offering good deals themselves on their own websites.
I can see why GW have done it but I don't think they've thought it through. It seems a knee jerk reaction to bad sales.
You hit the nail on the head. The reason behind this will be that FLGS's are complaining to GW reps that they put the time and effot in to grow the hobby, advertise for free and run events and people go online to stores that undercut them because they don't put the money in to the support. From my experience working in another industry online stores probably don't even hold much in the way of stock, mostly they will use EDI to run so that when you place an order they will place an order with GW. This will then be shipped to them next day, and then on to you.
This is not GW being evil and nasty, they are trying to balance the demands of the industry and the players. Both us and the shops are there customers, and we both have diffrent demands. They may have got the balance right, they may not, only time will tell.
In reply to the questions about the law, no its not illigal. Free trade only applies to the EU for GW, but in that case companys get forced to sell on a level footing, but also governments are forced to do the same with tax. If they wanted they could have given in totaly and stopped selling to anyone who sells exclusivly online.
43167
Post by: Sam__theRelentless
Ouze wrote:Guys, don't write letters, don't organize boycotts, and don't send angry emails. Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff. That's all that will work, period.
As for me, when Necrons are released, I'll pick and choose the models I like, assuming they don't get Ward'd in the Codex. This won't make me quit, but I certainly won't be picking out the impulse purchases I used to, and am much less inclined to get anything that doesn't fit a significant void in an army; essentially, not "collecting" anymore.
Hit the nail on the head, these are my feelings exactly re the price hike. My local Battle Bunker sits across the suburb from me, so it's not that much of a problem with regards to suppliers, but if it means less people playing the hobby, especially us middle-classes without an excruciating amount of disposable income, it's a problem. 
I just don't understand who makes these kinds of management decisions.... 
In the meantime, my  army remains small... and unpainted... and in a general state of "I want to do more with this!"
9230
Post by: Trasvi
I think this just all comes back to GW not really caring about retaining customers. All they want is timmy to buy his 2000pts worth of models, then lock them in a cupboard forever when he gets bored of them. Anyone who notices any of the 3 announced changes today is NOT part of GW's target audience.
They already have their pound of flesh from you and couldn't care less if you keep offering them more. Their target audience, little timmy, doesn't know that the box of shiny models he is holding was 20% cheaper 2 days ago, nor does he know that people in another country pay 50% less than him.
18410
Post by: filbert
Trasvi wrote:I think this just all comes back to GW not really caring about retaining customers. All they want is timmy to buy his 2000pts worth of models, then lock them in a cupboard forever when he gets bored of them. Anyone who notices any of the 3 announced changes today is NOT part of GW's target audience.
They already have their pound of flesh from you and couldn't care less if you keep offering them more. Their target audience, little timmy, doesn't know that the box of shiny models he is holding was 20% cheaper 2 days ago, nor does he know that people in another country pay 50% less than him.
That's very true but it assumes that Timmy and his parents buy blind with no heed to equivalent products or services. GW does not exist in a vacuum; it has to compete with video games and stuff like that. GW prices do not have infinite elasticity - there will come a point, sooner rather than later, where Timmy's mother looks at GW stuff as opposed to other forms of entertainment or hobbies and simply says 'no'. And some would contend that it is already happening; without quoting verbatim, the last few profit reports from GW have shown a trend of falling sales - the only reason GW has managed to keep profits steady is by slashing costs and hiking prices. There is only so much of this you can do and doing it as a way to 'fudge' growth and profit statistics is not a viable long term business strategy.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Paul wrote:gr1m_dan wrote:Hi all,
I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread or another relating to it stating how mad I am but having slept on it...I am just sad BUT this has happened before in other industries.
I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front. Basically the online boom sent many shops out of business because they couldn't cope with the massive discounts online guys were doing. At one point an online music shop was making around £5 on a Shure SM58 mic whilst before physical shops were making a good healthy £30/40 on them. Shops simply couldn't compete and then the local music scene struggled. Things are turning around now though and it seems a lot of physical shops have eventually caught up with the internet and offering good deals themselves on their own websites.
I can see why GW have done it but I don't think they've thought it through. It seems a knee jerk reaction to bad sales.
You hit the nail on the head. The reason behind this will be that FLGS's are complaining to GW reps that they put the time and effot in to grow the hobby, advertise for free and run events and people go online to stores that undercut them because they don't put the money in to the support. From my experience working in another industry online stores probably don't even hold much in the way of stock, mostly they will use EDI to run so that when you place an order they will place an order with GW. This will then be shipped to them next day, and then on to you.
This is not GW being evil and nasty, they are trying to balance the demands of the industry and the players. Both us and the shops are there customers, and we both have diffrent demands. They may have got the balance right, they may not, only time will tell.
In reply to the questions about the law, no its not illigal. Free trade only applies to the EU for GW, but in that case companys get forced to sell on a level footing, but also governments are forced to do the same with tax. If they wanted they could have given in totaly and stopped selling to anyone who sells exclusivly online.
Doesn't fly as a concept. Its the same line that BF tried to use on Maesltrom "Your cheap cheap prices undermine the hobby because you don't have a real shop." comes in the email from the man who has BEEN to the site, and the Maelstrom chaps sit in their real shop with adjoined gaming area, look around and wonder if its all a dream, given how much they do to support the hobby. Not to mention that the ability to purchase hobby materials at a reasonable price IS supporting the hobby much more effectively than pricing half the planet out of the market.
The way to deal with the disparity between online retailers (which many of these shops exclusively AREN'T) is obvious. Internationally, more attention needs to be paid towards exchange rates and price setting, especially within this particular hobby. Within the system as a whole it would be sensible if the relevant economic bodies (governments, trade unions, whoever) address the reasons why online retail puts "real" shops out of business, and create POSITIVE parity that benefits the consumer. So that would be tax-breaks or reduced rental arrangements and so forth that make it easier for "shops" to compete..not arbitrary rubbish like this that makes it more expensive for online retailers and more importantly consumers...because at the end of the day its the consumers that are getting it in the neck.
24911
Post by: snowman40k
I think this just all comes back to GW not really caring about retaining customers. All they want is timmy to buy his 2000pts worth of models, then lock them in a cupboard forever when he gets bored of them. Anyone who notices any of the 3 announced changes today is NOT part of GW's target audience.
They already have their pound of flesh from you and couldn't care less if you keep offering them more. Their target audience, little timmy, doesn't know that the box of shiny models he is holding was 20% cheaper 2 days ago, nor does he know that people in another country pay 50% less than him.
That's true. Get in and get out... i wonder if they realise it's easier to sell to current loyal customers (well were loyal) instead of getting new ones?
Having said that, why not start focusing on how we can work around it?
For anyone interested, thought it may be worthwhile working on a solution. Let's see what we can come up with?
Check it here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369395.page
35132
Post by: Smitty0305
why would they do this?
10575
Post by: vonjankmon
I just have to wonder if Privateer, Mantic, BattleFront, and the other smaller gaming companies just got HUGE stiff ones and are already making plans to take advantage of this.
With some focused attention for a couple of years it seems entirely possible that they could basically turn the tables on GW in NZ and AUS making their games the big deal and GW games the kind of side game people play from time to time.
Doesn't seem like there would ever be a better time than now to get as many events going as possible, talk to the retail stores in those countries to get them to stock more of their products, etc.
Because in the end people aren't going to start buying a lot more GW at retail in those countries. They can just pop onto Ebay. I'll lay money that within less than a week you'll see ebayers selling at 10-15% discount to those countries. Because people in the UK or US can bulk buy from their local discounter at 20-25% off, shave 5-10% for basically doing nothing, and sell the products over to AUS and NZ. And it's totally legal and there's nothing GW can do about it.
9230
Post by: Trasvi
filbert wrote:Trasvi wrote:I think this just all comes back to GW not really caring about retaining customers. All they want is timmy to buy his 2000pts worth of models, then lock them in a cupboard forever when he gets bored of them. Anyone who notices any of the 3 announced changes today is NOT part of GW's target audience.
They already have their pound of flesh from you and couldn't care less if you keep offering them more. Their target audience, little timmy, doesn't know that the box of shiny models he is holding was 20% cheaper 2 days ago, nor does he know that people in another country pay 50% less than him.
That's very true but it assumes that Timmy and his parents buy blind with no heed to equivalent products or services. GW does not exist in a vacuum; it has to compete with video games and stuff like that. GW prices do not have infinite elasticity - there will come a point, sooner rather than later, where Timmy's mother looks at GW stuff as opposed to other forms of entertainment or hobbies and simply says 'no'. And some would contend that it is already happening; without quoting verbatim, the last few profit reports from GW have shown a trend of falling sales - the only reason GW has managed to keep profits steady is by slashing costs and hiking prices. There is only so much of this you can do and doing it as a way to 'fudge' growth and profit statistics is not a viable long term business strategy.
Agreed to every point except 'equivalent products'. There might be competing interests like video games, but in terms of widely available wargames in prominent shopping locations, not so much. At least where I live, there is only one independent store nearby, and it is quite literally in a basement out of sight, to the point where I sometimes walk past it on my way there, and it has no gaming facilities. Parents see GW products, assume thats just the norm for pricing - they would think that surely online prices would be only 10% cheaper at most, and any competition in the market would keep the price down. Ha. Its only when one begins to surf forums or go to a gaming club that you begin to hear whispers of 'Mantic' and 'Warmahordes' - and by that time, to paraphrase myself
Anyone who knows of GW's competitors or GW's pricing shenanigans is NOT part of GW's target audience.
Which is quite sad, really. GW are targetting the newbie wargamer, and completely neglecting the person who may already be playing other wargames. Seems pretty silly to blank the person who is already interested in your product, but hey, thats GW.
18410
Post by: filbert
vonjankmon wrote:I just have to wonder if Privateer, Mantic, BattleFront, and the other smaller gaming companies just got HUGE stiff ones and are already making plans to take advantage of this.
Put it this way, I would be hugely surprised if they weren't. One of the advantages of being a small company over a relatively large corporate behemoth like GW is flexibility, speed of response and adaptability. I am sure the smaller mini producers in the market have been eyeing the situation for some time and have plans in place to take advantage of the situation.
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
Ouze wrote:...don't organize boycotts... Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff.
Make up your mind.
The important thing is that you and anyone else you can convince to boycott GW doesn't front-load their purchases, they stop, immediately, and they don't start again unless GW backs down.
9230
Post by: Trasvi
vonjankmon wrote:Because in the end people aren't going to start buying a lot more GW at retail in those countries. They can just pop onto Ebay. I'll lay money that within less than a week you'll see ebayers selling at 10-15% discount to those countries. Because people in the UK or US can bulk buy from their local discounter at 20-25% off, shave 5-10% for basically doing nothing, and sell the products over to AUS and NZ. And it's totally legal and there's nothing GW can do about it.
Maelstrom and co, I believe, have clauses in their agreements which basically say 'you cannot knowingly distribute to a third party retailer'. Tenuous, as Maelstrom doesn't know what you are doing, but GW could claim they should be able to work it out from volume of orders.
More likely, Aussies who are determined to get the best deal will do the same thing we do to get products from the US: http://www.myus.com/ (or similar package-forwarding service)
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Trasvi wrote:Agreed to every point except 'equivalent products'. There might be competing interests like video games, but in terms of widely available wargames in prominent shopping locations, not so much. At least where I live, there is only one independent store nearby, and it is quite literally in a basement out of sight, to the point where I sometimes walk past it on my way there, and it has no gaming facilities. Parents see GW products, assume thats just the norm for pricing - they would think that surely online prices would be only 10% cheaper at most, and any competition in the market would keep the price down. Ha. Its only when one begins to surf forums or go to a gaming club that you begin to hear whispers of 'Mantic' and 'Warmahordes' - and by that time, to paraphrase myself
Anyone who knows of GW's competitors or GW's pricing shenanigans is NOT part of GW's target audience.
Which is quite sad, really. GW are targetting the newbie wargamer, and completely neglecting the person who may already be playing other wargames. Seems pretty silly to blank the person who is already interested in your product, but hey, thats GW.
Hummmm I dont know about that but the global recession makes people in general and specially parents more "informed" about deals and options than ever before... Its not even a question of disposable income.
Sure that no other competitor, apart GW, has a dedicated store chain... but theres independent stores and there all products are exposed.
39444
Post by: gr1m_dan
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Paul wrote:gr1m_dan wrote:Hi all,
I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread or another relating to it stating how mad I am but having slept on it...I am just sad BUT this has happened before in other industries.
I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front. Basically the online boom sent many shops out of business because they couldn't cope with the massive discounts online guys were doing. At one point an online music shop was making around £5 on a Shure SM58 mic whilst before physical shops were making a good healthy £30/40 on them. Shops simply couldn't compete and then the local music scene struggled. Things are turning around now though and it seems a lot of physical shops have eventually caught up with the internet and offering good deals themselves on their own websites.
I can see why GW have done it but I don't think they've thought it through. It seems a knee jerk reaction to bad sales.
You hit the nail on the head. The reason behind this will be that FLGS's are complaining to GW reps that they put the time and effot in to grow the hobby, advertise for free and run events and people go online to stores that undercut them because they don't put the money in to the support. From my experience working in another industry online stores probably don't even hold much in the way of stock, mostly they will use EDI to run so that when you place an order they will place an order with GW. This will then be shipped to them next day, and then on to you.
This is not GW being evil and nasty, they are trying to balance the demands of the industry and the players. Both us and the shops are there customers, and we both have diffrent demands. They may have got the balance right, they may not, only time will tell.
In reply to the questions about the law, no its not illigal. Free trade only applies to the EU for GW, but in that case companys get forced to sell on a level footing, but also governments are forced to do the same with tax. If they wanted they could have given in totaly and stopped selling to anyone who sells exclusivly online.
Doesn't fly as a concept. Its the same line that BF tried to use on Maesltrom "Your cheap cheap prices undermine the hobby because you don't have a real shop." comes in the email from the man who has BEEN to the site, and the Maelstrom chaps sit in their real shop with adjoined gaming area, look around and wonder if its all a dream, given how much they do to support the hobby. Not to mention that the ability to purchase hobby materials at a reasonable price IS supporting the hobby much more effectively than pricing half the planet out of the market.
The way to deal with the disparity between online retailers (which many of these shops exclusively AREN'T) is obvious. Internationally, more attention needs to be paid towards exchange rates and price setting, especially within this particular hobby. Within the system as a whole it would be sensible if the relevant economic bodies (governments, trade unions, whoever) address the reasons why online retail puts "real" shops out of business, and create POSITIVE parity that benefits the consumer. So that would be tax-breaks or reduced rental arrangements and so forth that make it easier for "shops" to compete..not arbitrary rubbish like this that makes it more expensive for online retailers and more importantly consumers...because at the end of the day its the consumers that are getting it in the neck.
BF complained over the 4 times a year voucher offer Maelstrom do that I believe offers extra % off an already discounted price. Imagine how many companies/shops complained to Battlefront about this discount Maelstrom were offering and had to react somehow.
This happened in the music industry/business I'm in. "Real" shops complained to all the different makes of equipment/instruments and eventually most stopped selling to online only retailers and made you have at least a shop front which has improved the situation a lot, regarding the local music scenes and prices. I give credit to Maelstrom for doing this, at least they have a proper shop and a gaming hall. I wish BF and Maelstrom would just kiss and make up to be honest.
38789
Post by: Deathly Angel
What the GW??? I'm in high school and consider myself relatively new to the hobby (two or three years), am much slower than the average painter due to my obsession with everything being perfect and I've only just started ordering off discount sites because of Australia's pricing, and now Maelstrom at least is being proscribed from the southern hemisphere?? Please tell me this doesn't apply to Wayland as well PLEEAASE???
41670
Post by: Swordwind
Deathly Angel wrote:What the GW??? I'm in high school and consider myself relatively new to the hobby (two or three years), am much slower than the average painter due to my obsession with everything being perfect and I've only just started ordering off discount sites because of Australia's pricing, and now Maelstrom at least is being proscribed from the southern hemisphere?? Please tell me this doesn't apply to Wayland as well PLEEAASE???
Unfortunately it does mate. It applies to every discount store I believe. I share your pain, fellow south-hemispherer.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Ouze wrote:...don't organize boycotts... Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff.
Actually people are doing this for years: Watch the annual reports on declining sales and custmer numbers. Only the annual 10% price increase makes it to a slow decline. Problem is that GW management and shareholders are totally immune to economic signals.
38789
Post by: Deathly Angel
Would anyone know any good retailers outside the EU that would ship to the South Hemisphere such as an American company that we could use? If so is it reliable and does it offer similar prices to Wayland/Maelstrom?
14070
Post by: SagesStone
Probably the Warstore or something, I'm not sure.
Also instead of immune, maybe amazed, scared, oblivious, etc.
40950
Post by: Paul
gr1m_dan wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:Paul wrote:gr1m_dan wrote:Hi all,
I think I posted somewhere earlier in this thread or another relating to it stating how mad I am but having slept on it...I am just sad BUT this has happened before in other industries.
I am a semi-pro musician and have spent thousands of £ on gear as you can imagine. Now...I LOVE music shops and can't abide buying from the net even if it is cheaper and even music companies have stopped selling to online retailers UNLESS they have a shop front. Basically the online boom sent many shops out of business because they couldn't cope with the massive discounts online guys were doing. At one point an online music shop was making around £5 on a Shure SM58 mic whilst before physical shops were making a good healthy £30/40 on them. Shops simply couldn't compete and then the local music scene struggled. Things are turning around now though and it seems a lot of physical shops have eventually caught up with the internet and offering good deals themselves on their own websites.
I can see why GW have done it but I don't think they've thought it through. It seems a knee jerk reaction to bad sales.
You hit the nail on the head. The reason behind this will be that FLGS's are complaining to GW reps that they put the time and effot in to grow the hobby, advertise for free and run events and people go online to stores that undercut them because they don't put the money in to the support. From my experience working in another industry online stores probably don't even hold much in the way of stock, mostly they will use EDI to run so that when you place an order they will place an order with GW. This will then be shipped to them next day, and then on to you.
This is not GW being evil and nasty, they are trying to balance the demands of the industry and the players. Both us and the shops are there customers, and we both have diffrent demands. They may have got the balance right, they may not, only time will tell.
In reply to the questions about the law, no its not illigal. Free trade only applies to the EU for GW, but in that case companys get forced to sell on a level footing, but also governments are forced to do the same with tax. If they wanted they could have given in totaly and stopped selling to anyone who sells exclusivly online.
Doesn't fly as a concept. Its the same line that BF tried to use on Maesltrom "Your cheap cheap prices undermine the hobby because you don't have a real shop." comes in the email from the man who has BEEN to the site, and the Maelstrom chaps sit in their real shop with adjoined gaming area, look around and wonder if its all a dream, given how much they do to support the hobby. Not to mention that the ability to purchase hobby materials at a reasonable price IS supporting the hobby much more effectively than pricing half the planet out of the market.
The way to deal with the disparity between online retailers (which many of these shops exclusively AREN'T) is obvious. Internationally, more attention needs to be paid towards exchange rates and price setting, especially within this particular hobby. Within the system as a whole it would be sensible if the relevant economic bodies (governments, trade unions, whoever) address the reasons why online retail puts "real" shops out of business, and create POSITIVE parity that benefits the consumer. So that would be tax-breaks or reduced rental arrangements and so forth that make it easier for "shops" to compete..not arbitrary rubbish like this that makes it more expensive for online retailers and more importantly consumers...because at the end of the day its the consumers that are getting it in the neck.
BF complained over the 4 times a year voucher offer Maelstrom do that I believe offers extra % off an already discounted price. Imagine how many companies/shops complained to Battlefront about this discount Maelstrom were offering and had to react somehow.
This happened in the music industry/business I'm in. "Real" shops complained to all the different makes of equipment/instruments and eventually most stopped selling to online only retailers and made you have at least a shop front which has improved the situation a lot, regarding the local music scenes and prices. I give credit to Maelstrom for doing this, at least they have a proper shop and a gaming hall. I wish BF and Maelstrom would just kiss and make up to be honest.
Ah, now I see why we seem to have experiences on this. I work in music publishing and the shops made just the same complaints to us, and still do as we cannot cut off online retail (because of two big reasons that I'm sure you can guess).
Part of the problem is that online shops do have lower costs by not providing services that "real shops do. The other part of the problem is that too many "real" shop owners have huge persicution complexes. Its them you should point the finger at. For example they often complain that a well known online retailer gets unfair discounts, where as in reality they actualy get less discount than allot of the larger shops, BECAUSE the industry I am in recognises the vital part the knolage and help these people provide. We take a lower proffit knowing that in the long run having a sales person sell for you, and help people in to the hobby (music or wargames) increases sales in the long run, in a way that online sellers never will.
My view is that online shops give healthy competition, but I can see where they can distroy a market, but equaly since online book buying we seem to have seen an increase in indy shops, as people start to realise that what they offer.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
Well i have found a supplier and they are 30% cheaper than GW Australia, this includes the postage.
1478
Post by: warboss
Achaylus72 wrote:Well i have found a supplier and they are 30% cheaper than GW Australia, this includes the postage.
That same supplier may refuse to service your orders after May 28th. You may need to double check on the status after that date.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
^ well i am making hay while the sun shines, just purchased 5 Chaos Space Marine 10 x man Tactical Squads including postage for $136.94US
That is $129.35AU total, for the record GW Australian Shelf Price for the same is $310AU thus saving me a whopping $180.65AU that saves me a total of 52% off GW Australia shelf price.
11275
Post by: NeoMaul
A few posts in this thread have questioned whether it is legal for GW to do this. I am not an expert on this, but I have found some interesting information suggesting that it might not be legal.
GW and Maelstrom are in the UK and hence operate under the trade laws of the European Union. The general attitude of the European Union from what I can gather is that nothing should be allowed that will harm a members ability to trade freely within the EU and around the world.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/tackling-unfair-trade/trade-barriers/
This website here says:
"Businesses can use the TBR to ask the European Commission to investigate restrictions on their sales abroad, discriminatory treatment in foreign markets, difficulty obtaining patents or licenses or any other form of unfair barrier to their export of goods or services."
Article 34 seems possibly related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_movement_of_goods#Quantitative_restrictions_and_measures_having_equivalent_effect
Also it is interesting to me that wayland games hasn't made the announcement yet. Maybe they are investigating how legal it is.
Hopefully someone who has detailed understanding of these laws will come along and enlighten us.
18698
Post by: kronk
Ouze wrote:Guys, it's not his fault he hits us. We just make him so mad!
I can't remember the last time I actually LOL'ed at an internet post. This made me laugh.
To my friends and gamer pals in Australia and elsewhere, I'm very sorry that GW is treating you this way. This whole situation sucks balls.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
@NeoMaul
I see a potential problem as GW is well within their right to protect the Australian Market, as they have an established business established here in Aussie.
This would negate the TBR, if Australia did not have a GW corporation established here but a series of independents then the TBF would be used.
Sorry to say that GW is well within its rights to protect GW Australia.
40950
Post by: Paul
TheTBR relates mostly to governments and takeing action at the WTO. Market restriction is totaly legal and used by allot of companys.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Postal Services from UK to Australia
Prices are in GBP
Parcel Weight Airmail Surface Mail
500g 11.43 9.11
1000g 22.54 12.51
1500g 28.09 15.91
2000g (max) 33.64 19.31
Signed For Delivery costs £4.95 (included in the prices above).
Insurance for packets worth over £41 can be bought separately.
25200
Post by: Temujin
Without access to Maelstrom the cost of GW products more than doubles for me. I'm out. I'll consider buying again only when this restriction is ditched. I would encourage others to do likewise.
1795
Post by: keezus
Trasvi wrote:I think this just all comes back to GW not really caring about retaining customers. All they want is timmy to buy his 2000pts worth of models, then lock them in a cupboard forever when he gets bored of them. Anyone who notices any of the 3 announced changes today is NOT part of GW's target audience.
They already have their pound of flesh from you and couldn't care less if you keep offering them more. Their target audience, little timmy, doesn't know that the box of shiny models he is holding was 20% cheaper 2 days ago, nor does he know that people in another country pay 50% less than him.
That must be why sales volume is going up...
Oh wait. 
27023
Post by: Hollo
Temujin wrote:Without access to Maelstrom the cost of GW products more than doubles for me. I'm out. I'll consider buying again only when this restriction is ditched. I would encourage others to do likewise.
Oz resident and been doin this "hobby" for about 14 years. Over those 14 years I've watched the prices here steadily rise, and it was an exorbitant amount to begin with, by many standards.
I won't justify supporting a company that continues to act like this. Sadly, Gamesworkshop aren't alone, but at least in this instance it makes it alot easier to say goodbye.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
NeoMaul wrote:A few posts in this thread have questioned whether it is legal for GW to do this. I am not an expert on this, but I have found some interesting information suggesting that it might not be legal.
GW and Maelstrom are in the UK and hence operate under the trade laws of the European Union. The general attitude of the European Union from what I can gather is that nothing should be allowed that will harm a members ability to trade freely within the EU and around the world.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/tackling-unfair-trade/trade-barriers/
This website here says:
"Businesses can use the TBR to ask the European Commission to investigate restrictions on their sales abroad, discriminatory treatment in foreign markets, difficulty obtaining patents or licenses or any other form of unfair barrier to their export of goods or services."
Article 34 seems possibly related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_movement_of_goods#Quantitative_restrictions_and_measures_having_equivalent_effect
A lso it is interesting to me that wayland games hasn't made the announcement yet. Maybe they are investigating how legal it is.
Hopefully someone who has detailed understanding of these laws will come along and enlighten us.
According to their facebook status last night thats exactly what they are doing. It does seem that it should be covered by the section you quote though. Any bets as to whether GW just stepped on another legal land-mine that they didn't know was there? If that transpires to be the case then I have a suggestion for increasing next years profits.. bin your lawyers GW. Save yourself a fortune.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's another option. Maelstrom franchises itself to the Southern Hemisphere..sends its own stock down there, and sells that at a realistic price?
6987
Post by: Chimera_Calvin
If any indie retailer opened stores in aus to get round this restriction, GW would simply refuse to sell them anything (see the Maelstrom/BF farce)
Ultimately GW believes it can do what it wants, when it wants and only an unprecedented level of complaints (in all forms - written, phone calls, in person at stores or HQ, emails etc) coupled with simply not buying anything from GW will help. I believe ArbeitsSchu's sig bears repeating here:
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio
We need action as a collective - it won't happen this time just as it hasn't happened before. And that is the only reason GW gets away with this kind of gak.
6866
Post by: StarFyre
Lunahound - they have an actual store. email them and they have everything in their physical location. The ebay listing has less stuff.
Sanjay
778
Post by: penek
ok i got it... GW give GREEN signal to their "competitors" - like we have enough money now, its your turn )))
4760
Post by: lords2001
Achaylus72 wrote:^ well i am making hay while the sun shines, just purchased 5 Chaos Space Marine 10 x man Tactical Squads including postage for $136.94US
That is $129.35AU total, for the record GW Australian Shelf Price for the same is $310AU thus saving me a whopping $180.65AU that saves me a total of 52% off GW Australia shelf price.
Care to share the website?
42123
Post by: redeyed
"sighs" :(
I feel really sorry for you guys in Auz/elsewhere in the world
Give Warmachine/Hordes a go if you havent already. It's quite alot of fun (I recently got into it myself)
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
@ Chimera_Calvin: I knew that quote would become relevant sooner or later. It applies to so many situations. And indeed, just after that speech, Mario Savio and his fellow protesters retired to the university building they were occupying at the time, and partook of lessons, carrying on their education even when the institute they were part of would not. Thus it doubly applies here. Forget Games Workshop, there is a light and happy future beyond the evil empire, and it can still be grimdark if people want it to be.
20721
Post by: SDasher
redeyed wrote:"sighs" :(
I feel really sorry for you guys in Auz/elsewhere in the world
Give Warmachine/Hordes a go if you havent already. It's quite alot of fun (I recently got into it myself)
This. A million times this.
There are other companies. When you're unhappy with the one you go to most often, you defer to the one(s) next in line. I've picked up Hordes myself, and so far the rule system and prices have failed to disappoint me.
20075
Post by: Vermillion
Only way people will be able to protest this move and the coming price rises in a way GW will listen is to not buy GW stuff even from independant retailers.
To those people in the southern hemisphere I really do see that the prices are stupidly high and see why so many have already said they won't be buying GW stuff any more. Stick to your guns and hopefuly the US and UK customers will follow suit and stop GW making money enough to notice that they've lost cutom with these price rises.
I doubt many gamers actually will stop buying though esp in the UK/US :(
22038
Post by: 4M2A
It is happening, slowly, but people are moving away. GW picked a bad time to start raising the cost to ridiculous levels. People have little money already and many new wargaming companies have started to become real competition. GW's monopoly on the market is at its weakest.
4010
Post by: Delephont
Put it this way, I just went to Wayland games....with a virtual £20 in my "pocket".....I could have spent that money on increasing my DE army (which I'm now considering selling).....instead I bought the rules for Warmachine.....
I'm not affected by all this crap, cause I live in the U.K, but I can't support this direction....I can't.
I'm not bothered if GW does well, or collapses. I'm not going to send letters, or emails. I'm simply finished with them....full stop. I certainly won't be encouraging anyone else to use their products either, but I doubt that will harm them too much.
My only advice to people directly (or indirectly) affected, don't bulk buy, don't make hay while the sun shines, just stop and walk away....leave their fine cast crap on the shelf to rot, where it belongs. Instead, talk about Warmachine, Hordes, MERCS, Infinity.....promote other games and companies, organise clubs where there are none! ACT, take back YOUR hobby, take back your self respect as paying consumers...don't be dictated to by dicks that wouldn't driss on you if you were on fire.
In your own small way, each person can contribute to the downfall of the Evil Empire that is GW. They've turned your hobby into nothing more than a dagger in your wallet, that goes beyond business and into the realms of greed.
35005
Post by: Juvieus Kaine
Or, ya'know, sell everything cheap and just find something else to do. Heck collecting Lego kits would work out cheaper in the long run... somehow.
26818
Post by: Seriphis
Maelstrom franchises itself to the Southern Hemisphere
I'd be in on that!
29408
Post by: Melissia
Delephont wrote:My only advice to people directly (or indirectly) affected, don't bulk buy, don't make hay while the sun shines, just stop and walk away....leave their fine cast crap on the shelf to rot, where it belongs. Instead, talk about Warmachine, Hordes, MERCS, Infinity.....promote other games and companies, organise clubs where there are none! ACT, take back YOUR hobby, take back your self respect as paying consumers...don't be dictated to by dicks that wouldn't driss on you if you were on fire.
Meh, I'm too in love with the lore of 40k. So I'll instead just support FFG because they actually care about the lore.
11141
Post by: perplexiti
Well this decision has finally given me the reason I need to start up flames of war. Or maybe look into Warmachine. And that makes me quite sad, as I've been playing 40k for 17+ yrs and Fantasy for around 10ish. I love the background, the stories and armies of both systems.
I already pretty much bought everything from Maelstrom because of NZ's ridiculous prices, now I won't even buy paint off them instore.
I just don't get why they don't want to hold onto customers and nurture the hobby, it seems very shortsighted to me.
41268
Post by: Deepeyes
From what I have read from other peoples post GW has always been losing customers and they are trying over the years to off set this by raising prices. I have no idea if this is true but if it is; it is a bubble that is going to burst.
Funnily enough I was reading a paper describing how management types score highly on the psychopath check list.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
Well GW have officially announced that,
1, an international embargo.
2, announcements on new products a week before availability
3, confirmation of resin replacing metal
4, a massive price rise in June.
What i have been told the level of price rise in Australia could be massive up to 25% to 30% this is was told to me in confidence so i won't name my source.
But GW are to squeeze as much money out of Aussie consumers as they can, this is due to the strong Aussie dollar.
So what does that mean well in September 2008 i could pick up an Assault on Black Reach starter kit at GW for $95Au.
Now in May 2011 it is $150Au that is an overall price rise of 58% in three years.
Now add what i have been told of a worse case scenario of a 30% rise that makes Assault on Black Reach $195Au, a massive 105% price rise within 3 years.
That is why they brought in the embargo, not to protect GW Australia, it was brought in so that they can rip off Australians as hard as they can.
GW is morally bankrupt
28857
Post by: Alastair78
NeoMaul wrote:A few posts in this thread have questioned whether it is legal for GW to do this. I am not an expert on this, but I have found some interesting information suggesting that it might not be legal.
GW and Maelstrom are in the UK and hence operate under the trade laws of the European Union. The general attitude of the European Union from what I can gather is that nothing should be allowed that will harm a members ability to trade freely within the EU and around the world.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/tackling-unfair-trade/trade-barriers/
This website here says:
"Businesses can use the TBR to ask the European Commission to investigate restrictions on their sales abroad, discriminatory treatment in foreign markets, difficulty obtaining patents or licenses or any other form of unfair barrier to their export of goods or services."
Article 34 seems possibly related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_movement_of_goods#Quantitative_restrictions_and_measures_having_equivalent_effect
Also it is interesting to me that wayland games hasn't made the announcement yet. Maybe they are investigating how legal it is.
Hopefully someone who has detailed understanding of these laws will come along and enlighten us.
Is there something we can do on the Australian end as well, Maybe the ACCC can investigate GW Aus for non-competitive selling practices (Just like the big 4 banks and coles/woolies)?
26204
Post by: candy.man
Achaylus72 wrote:Well GW have officially announced that,
1, an international embargo.
2, announcements on new products a week before availability
3, confirmation of resin replacing metal
4, a massive price rise in June.
What i have been told the level of price rise in Australia could be massive up to 25% to 30% this is was told to me in confidence so i won't name my source.
But GW are to squeeze as much money out of Aussie consumers as they can, this is due to the strong Aussie dollar.
So what does that mean well in September 2008 i could pick up an Assault on Black Reach starter kit at GW for $95Au.
Now in May 2011 it is $150Au that is an overall price rise of 58% in three years.
Now add what i have been told of a worse case scenario of a 30% rise that makes Assault on Black Reach $195Au, a massive 105% price rise within 3 years.
That is why they brought in the embargo, not to protect GW Australia, it was brought in so that they can rip off Australians as hard as they can.
GW is morally bankrupt
Great post. You've hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, the embargo is not about protecting bricks and mortar stores and local clubs, it’s about maximising their profitability. Restricting cheaper online sales allows them to greater increase their revenue from regional markups.
14062
Post by: darkkt
I really dont see why everyone is surprised at this. Its unfortunate, but hardly shocking. Its also more common than you think.
Australians will remember the recent 'anti-online shopping' marketing by local australian retailers (like Harvey Norman), who were complaining that they could not compete with internet sales (due to strong aussie dollars, and rip off Aussie prices - thats right, GW is not the only company to screw the Australian market). Basically these companies were pleading for Government intervention to ensure Australians pay more.
Well, whilst Harvey Norman failed, GW is in a much stronger position to actually influence what happens, as they have the ability to restrict who they sell to.
And this isnt the only time this stuff happens. E-books are a classic example. In many instances e-books are not available through Australian i-tunes or amazon due to very similar 'territorial based' sales restrictions. These are often completely bizzare - My mother-in-law found she could buy the second and third e-books in a series, but the first book was blocked in OZ.
Ultimately, I can see this resulting in a secondary e-bay market, where clever Northern Hemisphere individuals buy stuff new from stores, and then sell to their ripped off Aussie friends. Indeed, clever individuals may be able to 'pre-sell' items - sell an item on ebay, get paid for it, then go and buy it and post it down.
It may be an option for clever dakkites looking to supplement their incomes...
12313
Post by: Ouze
AlexHolker wrote:Ouze wrote:...don't organize boycotts... Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff.
Make up your mind.
The important thing is that you and anyone else you can convince to boycott GW doesn't front-load their purchases, they stop, immediately, and they don't start again unless GW backs down.
Which part of that was unclear to you? Lets pretend you didn't intentionally cut out a small section of a much larger sentence ( "Guys, don't write letters, don't organize boycotts, and don't send angry emails. Vote with your dollars, and stop buying their stuff.") and take it as you quoted it. Even presently as dishonestly as it was, there is no disconnect between those two thoughts.
Don't organize boycotts, vote with your dollars and stop buying their stuff. Emphasis was on the organizing. My point was all the nerdraging, internet petitions, angry posts, and such are irrelevant. They have shown before they they are immune to public sentiment, so simply stop buying their stuff. No need to even tell anyone.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
I'm kind of lucky that I never ordered online. My friends and I have only ever bought locally, so we aren't getting this 100% price increase that some people feel like they're getting.
664
Post by: Grimtuff
-Loki- wrote:I'm kind of lucky that I never ordered online. My friends and I have only ever bought locally, so we aren't getting this 100% price increase that some people feel like they're getting.
Or, conversly you never saw how much of a massive saving Maelstrom could give you....
37431
Post by: Aspiring Champion
I've been mulling this news for a few days. I've been tempted to do a big final buy using Maelstrom's generous sale, but I had a change of heart. Today I went to my local GW and ordered what will likely be my final GW purchase for a very long time - Hack Enslash, the BB star player, and the SM multagun pack for a squad of Chosen I have underway. I'll always have a soft spot for CSM and Daemons, but I'm not going to be treated like a lamb at the slaughterhouse, either.
I've been looking for a reason to buy minis from other companies without feeling guilty about not using the money to fill out my CSM army. This move to cut us off from Maelstrom and Wayland stinks, but it's also liberating. I think I might get some Dr Who minis, some zombie pirates, some westerns, and a bunch of 2000AD characters. The mini world is my oyster!
24150
Post by: ChocolateGork
Aspiring Champion wrote:I've been mulling this news for a few days. I've been tempted to do a big final buy using Maelstrom's generous sale, but I had a change of heart. Today I went to my local GW and ordered what will likely be my final GW purchase for a very long time - Hack Enslash, the BB star player, and the SM multagun pack for a squad of Chosen I have underway. I'll always have a soft spot for CSM and Daemons, but I'm not going to be treated like a lamb at the slaughterhouse, either.
I've been looking for a reason to buy minis from other companies without feeling guilty about not using the money to fill out my CSM army. This move to cut us off from Maelstrom and Wayland stinks, but it's also liberating. I think I might get some Dr Who minis, some zombie pirates, some westerns, and a bunch of 2000AD characters. The mini world is my oyster!
I also was going to do a big buy. But then i thought, F*#K that. Instead ill put the money into starting up kings of war and/or battlefront and/or 40k roleplay.
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
-Loki- wrote:I'm kind of lucky that I never ordered online. My friends and I have only ever bought locally, so we aren't getting this 100% price increase that some people feel like they're getting.
Then you have never enjoyed the experience of buying 5 boxes of Chaos Space Marine 10 man Tactical Squads (including postage) online for $129.65Aus, where as you prefer to pay $310Aus for the same product, so you see i'd like to save $180.35 for the same product..
These were bought from EBay.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
You've yet to say where...
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
Alastair78 wrote:NeoMaul wrote:A few posts in this thread have questioned whether it is legal for GW to do this. I am not an expert on this, but I have found some interesting information suggesting that it might not be legal.
GW and Maelstrom are in the UK and hence operate under the trade laws of the European Union. The general attitude of the European Union from what I can gather is that nothing should be allowed that will harm a members ability to trade freely within the EU and around the world.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/tackling-unfair-trade/trade-barriers/
This website here says:
"Businesses can use the TBR to ask the European Commission to investigate restrictions on their sales abroad, discriminatory treatment in foreign markets, difficulty obtaining patents or licenses or any other form of unfair barrier to their export of goods or services."
Article 34 seems possibly related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_movement_of_goods#Quantitative_restrictions_and_measures_having_equivalent_effect
Also it is interesting to me that wayland games hasn't made the announcement yet. Maybe they are investigating how legal it is.
Hopefully someone who has detailed understanding of these laws will come along and enlighten us.
Is there something we can do on the Australian end as well, Maybe the ACCC can investigate GW Aus for non-competitive selling practices (Just like the big 4 banks and coles/woolies)?
And do what, what can the ACCC do, honestly, i know for a fact they can do diddly squat, SFA. How can they order a British Based business to begin to supplying British Indies and have them undercut GW Australia with cheap imports.
GW Australia is not guilty of non-competetitive selling practices, it would be guilty if they forced local indies to sell at one price and undercut them with cheaper local prices at GW Australian stores or their GW Australian online services, this would certainly gett the attention of the ACCC but they don't do that, this is a foreign matter and the ACCC has no power. Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:You've yet to say where...
Go onto EBay and have a look, i can't do all the work.
19719
Post by: Loricatus Aurora
I was toying with the idea of starting another 40k army'
Have a good CSM one and a great SM one, have a few final bits and pieces I still want for my SM which will pretty much get me to just about any force I want
However now I think it will be stopping with those two armies
Yeah its boring to always turn up to tournaments with the same armies
Get used to it
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Achaylus72 wrote:Go onto EBay and have a look, i can't do all the work.
Is it an eBay Store? Was it some random seller? Surely you can look at your confirmation E-mails and find the guy's name...
28522
Post by: ShasO Ben
Not being able to buy from Malestrom hurts... Games Workshop prices are just far too high already and with the price rise coming I fear I'll have to just go back to computer games instead...
41268
Post by: Deepeyes
I only got into 40k because I found Malestrom/wayland. I have walked into my FLGS (they where also a comic book store) a hundred times and always wanted to pick up and start 40k but I could never justify the expense.
1165
Post by: boreas
Well, had a great game last night with my friends. 2x1500pts of GK vs 1500pts of daemons and 1500pts of IG. Ended a draw.
But the sad thing is, all of us came to the same conclusion. GW, as a hobby, is pretty time consuming. We invest time in building, painting and playing the models. Of course, they're great models. I think we were all on the brink of saying: "you know what, let's keep our armies as they are and keep playing with that".
Now, with what's coming, they just might have pushed us over. One of us hates working with resin. One's always a bit in-between jobs, so a few hundred dollars is a lot to him. I'm tired of waiting years for codices or FAQs.
Now, I know a lot of people say it's the younger kids that bring in the money to GW. Is there that much 14-24 years old with the means to buy 500-600$ worth of plastic soldiers (plus some paints and stuff. Let's assumed they torrent the rules)? Those same kids who already pay through the nose for the fancy cell phones and PS3 games and what not?
Oh well, maybe GW knows best after 25+ years of experience... As others have said, I've never bought so much from a company I hate so deeply.
Phil
20880
Post by: loki old fart
I think prices on ebay will rise, as more people bid for the same bits/kits.
One of the knock on effects of GW polices
42746
Post by: Yotebeth
Remember:
The ONLY way to get your point across to GW is to NOT buy their stuff. If you want them to pay attention you CANNOT GIVE THEM MONEY.
Things you can't do:
-You can't say, "I'll only buy when I'm in X place."
-You can't 'finish up this army.'
-"Only buy what I really need now.'
Any money given to GW tells them that its okay to do this.
I know it's hard, and I know it sucks. But sadly that's the only way.
They don't care about rants, letters, petitions, the ONLY thing they care about is the monies.
Things you CAN do:
-Stay in the hobby! Don't quit, the Hobby needs you!
-Try new systems! This is a great time to support the 'little guys.'
-Look for alternatives to your minis.
-eBay!
And I'll be honest, I quit GW years ago when they did that whole 'split a command blister and charge the same for both sets' thing they were on to. However, I still bought their paints, some scenery, and a mini or two that I just had to paint.
But we've gotta stop this if we want to show them that this isn't okay.
-Ravyn
4010
Post by: Delephont
Well, if any of you Australians want to purchase a N.I.B Dark Eldar army, let me know....
My gaming group has put a hold (read stop) to all GW interaction. We can see what's on the horizon and we've all decided to get out.....another friend (non Dakkite) will be selling his W.I.P Tau, and yet another is dumping his CSM
To new horizons cheers
37247
Post by: Vanq
Inquisitor Earl wrote:That's the point, I dont want to ask the same question that others surely have emailed them about. They are busy at the best of times.
Hey mate, I'm yet to receive a response regarding this Don't know if anyone else has heard anything about Maelstrom honouring pre-orders made in this period?
26603
Post by: InventionThirteen
Well I'm happy my new army is finished. Sadly because I am at home here in New Zealand I and many others will be turning to other companies and games.
Games Workshop have had the monopoly for a long time and have decided to commit commercial suicide out our ways and that's fine by me. I have just read the new terms and conditions as posted on BOLS and it is ludicrous. Many independent companies are going to take a hit from this rubbish.
For a few years now I have been buying from an independent retailer in Auckland, off their website and enjoying a 'reasonable price' and I use that term loosely. The game is well written and directed but the commercial and corporate aspects have killed the joy. Privateer Press will be rubbing their hands with glee, and I don't blame them.
21593
Post by: DiscoVader
Just sent off two letters, one to GW HQ in Memphis and one to their Nottingham HQ, to voice my displeasure with their practices. Until something changes, I'm afraid I'm not going to buy anything from here on out unless it's from a trade with someone. I've got the majority of my Ork Army built with a few units here and there left to do, but I've got all the bits I need, and I'll be fine playing 500 point Fantasy games with the small Lizardmen force I've had built and painted since January.
43935
Post by: varag
I contacted Maelstrom about preorders and got this reply
Hi,
Shipping is irrelevant, end of the month is cut off for you guys placing orders not us sending/fulfilling them, that can be done at any time so preorders and out of stock orders are all absolutely fine.
So good news for those of us outside the EU who wish to make one last large order before being cutoff from sane prices.
37247
Post by: Vanq
Cheers varag, Earl got the same response. Regards of the calls for boycott, I want to complete my DE army, and the order to do so has been placed.
Fun while it lasted :(
41010
Post by: taylor048
Wow this is the first time ive noticed this thread, what the Feth!
34242
Post by: -Loki-
Grimtuff wrote:-Loki- wrote:I'm kind of lucky that I never ordered online. My friends and I have only ever bought locally, so we aren't getting this 100% price increase that some people feel like they're getting.
Or, conversly you never saw how much of a massive saving Maelstrom could give you....
I never have the money to drop much in one go anyway. The most I've bought at once is, I think, two boxes.
I was considering buying the bulk of a 1500 point Vampire Counts army from Wayland Games, which would have cost me about $220au rather than $500au. I might still be able to if I can get the money together before the end of the month. Will I be annoyed if I can't? Sure. It won't stop me getting the army, I'll just do it a fair bit slower.
The thing is, my group of friends and myself only ever liked 40k. We tried branching out into other games for 20 years and it never happened, simply because 40k is what we enjoy. It's a miracle we've branched into Warhammer Fantasy, even if it is still GW. We've always bought locally, and the price hikes never really bothered us.
28522
Post by: ShasO Ben
varag wrote:I contacted Maelstrom about preorders and got this reply
Hi,
Shipping is irrelevant, end of the month is cut off for you guys placing orders not us sending/fulfilling them, that can be done at any time so preorders and out of stock orders are all absolutely fine.
So good news for those of us outside the EU who wish to make one last large order before being cutoff from sane prices.
So this means I can go to Maelstrom games now and get myself the other half of my Space Wolves army at a price I can afford? That's... great! There is still hope for me in continuing this hobby if that's the case, thank you very much for posting that. ^^
43167
Post by: Sam__theRelentless
It's chilled for the guys have have armies ready and painted... The veterans of the hobby will stay in it because what they love about it is what gets people to play in the first place: the stories and battles on otherworldly universe, and the fun you have across the tabletop.
Unfortunately, guys like me who are relatively just starting are going to suffer... it's not like I'm going to be satisfied with a 1000 pt army when I know there's potential to do more. It's like Loki said: all the price hikes do for us is slow the collecting progress... 
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Sam__theRelentless wrote:Unfortunately, guys like me who are relatively just starting are going to suffer... it's not like I'm going to be satisfied with a 1000 pt army when I know there's potential to do more. It's like Loki said: all the price hikes do for us is slow the collecting progress...
And when collecting is so slow-going it's very easy to lose interest in the endeavor altogether...
28590
Post by: DarkSphere
As a UK based independent webstore we do a large amount of our business to Australia and that will all have to cease when the new terms and condition come in to effect (we will still be able to send other products such as Warmachine, Malifaux, etc).
Not only will Independents such as ourselves be restricted to just Europe but from the 1st June we won't be able to get releases in foreign languages until 3-8 weeks after they are officially released thanks to GW's new policy...
We will of course still have our shop in central London so if any of you guys are ever near the London Eye then pop in, say 'hi' and save some money!
43791
Post by: Achaylus72
DarkSphere wrote:As a UK based independent webstore we do a large amount of our business to Australia and that will all have to cease when the new terms and condition come in to effect (we will still be able to send other products such as Warmachine, Malifaux, etc).
Not only will Independents such as ourselves be restricted to just Europe but from the 1st June we won't be able to get releases in foreign languages until 3-8 weeks after they are officially released thanks to GW's new policy...
We will of course still have our shop in central London so if any of you guys are ever near the London Eye then pop in, say 'hi' and save some money!
Are you entitled to any compensation from lost revenue, i would suggest that you and all other Indies that are effected like this consider getting legal advice over compensation and if you are entitled to it then a class action law suit would be the order of the day, maybe in the best case scenario a several million pound law suit might wake up those ivory tower hack at GW.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
maybe in the best case scenario a several million pound law suit might wake up those ivory tower hack at GW.
If it did it would be too late because said lawsuit would likely be the final nail in GW's coffin.
17189
Post by: black-rabbit
I don't know if this has already been asked, but I don't fancy scrolling through 18 pages to find out.
Where do Australians stand in terms of ordering from the official US GW site? It's still a lot cheaper than buying local, but does anyone know if they will ship to Australia?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
We won't know until we try after June 1st.
And I wouldn't order from the US website anyway, not with the high shipping costs they have. The UK website ain't much better, but it is better.
958
Post by: mikhaila
Achaylus72 wrote:
Are you entitled to any compensation from lost revenue, i would suggest that you and all other Indies that are effected like this consider getting legal advice over compensation and if you are entitled to it then a class action law suit would be the order of the day, maybe in the best case scenario a several million pound law suit might wake up those ivory tower hack at GW.
What GW is doing is legal, so they can't be sued for it. Paying a lawyer to tell you that just makes the lawyer richer.
10973
Post by: Sirius42
We here in the Uk could always foreward maelstrom orders at the cost of the extra shipping only, sounds like itd still be cheaper than ordering from gw
2648
Post by: Fenriswulf
-Loki- wrote:I never have the money to drop much in one go anyway. The most I've bought at once is, I think, two boxes.
I was considering buying the bulk of a 1500 point Vampire Counts army from Wayland Games, which would have cost me about $220au rather than $500au. I might still be able to if I can get the money together before the end of the month. Will I be annoyed if I can't? Sure. It won't stop me getting the army, I'll just do it a fair bit slower.
The thing is, my group of friends and myself only ever liked 40k. We tried branching out into other games for 20 years and it never happened, simply because 40k is what we enjoy. It's a miracle we've branched into Warhammer Fantasy, even if it is still GW. We've always bought locally, and the price hikes never really bothered us.
I've got a better idea in which you can get a fantastic 1500pt VC army very very cheap, and with better looking models. Buy Mantic and Gamezone from one of the online retailers.
Mantic Undead are brilliant, and a lot better looking than GW's VC stuff. They have all the units you need available, and if you buy one of their boxed deals you can get even more miniatures for cheap.
All main regiments are covered by them - Zombies & Ghouls (both way better than GW's and also interchangeable between each other for different poses), Skeletons, Revenants (can be used as Grave Guard), Black Knights (their Cavalry dudes) as well as wraiths, Necromancers, and even a Vamp on winged Nightmare (which some like and some don't).
Gamezone makes possibly the best looking Blood Knights available, and still a lot cheaper than GW's. They also make great plague carts, dire wolves, and if you branch into the Dark Elf line, you can also get Harpies to use as fell bats (flying vampire chicks? Hell yeah!). Bat swarms can come from Reaper Minis, or even better, the ones from Masquerade Mini's if you can afford the postage.
Avatars of War also makes a fantastic Vampire Female on foot, which I have ordered, as well as "The Old Death" from Enigma Miniatures, which I am determined to shoe horn in somewhere.
Essentially, you no longer need GW at all. Definitely not for a VC army. And they'll look a hell of a lot better too while also coming in cheaper to buy than GW's stuff (which looks dated and just bloody ugly now. Ugh, those zombies).
You want GW to rue this decision? Stop buying from them.
20880
Post by: loki old fart
Fenriswulf wrote:-Loki- wrote:I never have the money to drop much in one go anyway. The most I've bought at once is, I think, two boxes.
I was considering buying the bulk of a 1500 point Vampire Counts army from Wayland Games, which would have cost me about $220au rather than $500au. I might still be able to if I can get the money together before the end of the month. Will I be annoyed if I can't? Sure. It won't stop me getting the army, I'll just do it a fair bit slower.
The thing is, my group of friends and myself only ever liked 40k. We tried branching out into other games for 20 years and it never happened, simply because 40k is what we enjoy. It's a miracle we've branched into Warhammer Fantasy, even if it is still GW. We've always bought locally, and the price hikes never really bothered us.
I've got a better idea in which you can get a fantastic 1500pt VC army very very cheap, and with better looking models. Buy Mantic and Gamezone from one of the online retailers.
Mantic Undead are brilliant, and a lot better looking than GW's VC stuff. They have all the units you need available, and if you buy one of their boxed deals you can get even more miniatures for cheap.
All main regiments are covered by them - Zombies & Ghouls (both way better than GW's and also interchangeable between each other for different poses), Skeletons, Revenants (can be used as Grave Guard), Black Knights (their Cavalry dudes) as well as wraiths, Necromancers, and even a Vamp on winged Nightmare (which some like and some don't).
Gamezone makes possibly the best looking Blood Knights available, and still a lot cheaper than GW's. They also make great plague carts, dire wolves, and if you branch into the Dark Elf line, you can also get Harpies to use as fell bats (flying vampire chicks? Hell yeah!). Bat swarms can come from Reaper Minis, or even better, the ones from Masquerade Mini's if you can afford the postage.
Avatars of War also makes a fantastic Vampire Female on foot, which I have ordered, as well as "The Old Death" from Enigma Miniatures, which I am determined to shoe horn in somewhere.
Essentially, you no longer need GW at all. Definitely not for a VC army. And they'll look a hell of a lot better too while also coming in cheaper to buy than GW's stuff (which looks dated and just bloody ugly now. Ugh, those zombies).
You want GW to rue this decision? Stop buying from them.
And thats the way to do it. Play the game you love but dont give GW your money
42123
Post by: redeyed
problem for people in UK forwarding orders to Auz is the royal mail cut off point.
anything over 2kg has to go via parcelforce which costs a fortune.
I dont know about other couriers, but there must be a cheaper/decent one about!
37431
Post by: Aspiring Champion
People suggesting using freight forwarders probably don't understand the full picture. What makes buying from the UK so cheap for us is because the items are being sent overseas, we don't pay VAT. Maelstrom and Wayland convert the VAT into paying the shipping. That lets us buy at the same price UK folks do. If goods were sent to forwarders, we pay the full UK price (including VAT), and then have to pay the shipping on top. That international freight charge is a killer.
8737
Post by: rich1231
Aspiring Champion is spot on
6866
Post by: StarFyre
Time for us all to just go play StarCraft 2....we'll enjoy it more
Sanjay
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Activision is a company even less deserving of my money, so I'd rather not.
More interested in Diablo 3 anyway...
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
Blizzard == Activision. So dont get Diablo 3 if you dont like Activision
As pointed out above: the EU allows trademark holders, of which GW certanly is, to control the export and import of their goods around the EEA. Normaly used to control *imports*, but the same principle applies to exports
See Lev i Jeans vs Tesco
If they say you cannot export, you cannot export. You could try to sue for lost earnings, however this would be an ambitious move to make, given this is a totally lega, well settled area of law. It was a little caveat emptor, essentially.
BTW - not saying I agree with the above, but it seemed almost inevitable.
37242
Post by: Portaljacker
More specifically the company is called Activision Blizzard now. There is no Activision, there is no Blizzard, they are one and the same. Though Blizzard acts like a company within Activision Blizzard.
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Post by: oni
Hey Australia... Show GW your own embargo by making Games Day Australia 2011 the worst Games Day in history.
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Post by: SickSix
EBay.
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Post by: loki old fart
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Post by: StarFyre
OMG..Fenris - those Mantic skeletons. they look very good. Are they a bit taller? ie. proper humanoid scale as well?
and for 8 pounds instead of..whatever GW charges for 10?
To round out more undead for D&D, i'm just gonna get those.
Sanjay
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Post by: insaniak
Aspiring Champion wrote:People suggesting using freight forwarders probably don't understand the full picture. What makes buying from the UK so cheap for us is because the items are being sent overseas, we don't pay VAT. Maelstrom and Wayland convert the VAT into paying the shipping. That lets us buy at the same price UK folks do. If goods were sent to forwarders, we pay the full UK price (including VAT), and then have to pay the shipping on top. That international freight charge is a killer.
Except that the huge disparity in pricing means that even with all this, it's still going to be cheaper than GW OZ RRP, unless the forwarders are taking a massive cut. The purchases that I've made directly from GW UK in the past have worked out to save around 30 off the Oz price, even after shipping.
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Post by: Sidstyler
nosferatu1001 wrote:Blizzard == Activision. So dont get Diablo 3 if you dont like Activision
HOLY GAK I HAD NO IDEA actually yeah I knew that already. Notice in my post I didn't say I would buy Diablo 3, only that I was more interested in it than Starcraft 2.
Don't know how "more interested in Diablo 3" means that I'm so god-damned stupid I have no idea that it's made by the same company, and that I'm going to buy three copies, but whatever.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Vote with your wallets.
That is all.
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Post by: Quintinus
Have they also shut down the option for eBay stores to ship to Australia? You could get around the blockade by doing that.
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Post by: The Plastic Surgeon
Aspiring Champion wrote:People suggesting using freight forwarders probably don't understand the full picture. What makes buying from the UK so cheap for us is because the items are being sent overseas, we don't pay VAT. Maelstrom and Wayland convert the VAT into paying the shipping. That lets us buy at the same price UK folks do. If goods were sent to forwarders, we pay the full UK price (including VAT), and then have to pay the shipping on top. That international freight charge is a killer.
100%
Thats why you need to be creative. Get a group order going at the highest discounting indie during a sale which is once a month or every other month, plenty of time to get a group going, you can even make it a regular thing so people in the group can budget. I suggest Wayland as they give you a shipping weight estimate as wekk. Have them ship to a buddy in the UK. Ask him to debox everything and chuck into one big box instead as well as verifying the contents. Shout him a happy hour beer or 5 via paypal. Then use these folks
http://www.transglobal.org.uk/australia/index.asp
15kg at 62 quid airfreight to Aus tracked.... Split that evenly within a group.
Go the plastic railroad! I'm in the process of organising mine.
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Post by: Lord Castellan Mik
it's incredible when you look at simple examples
Black Library (GW publishing arm) is selling eBooks online to the world
From Australia we even pay more for electronic stock
The new story "Midnight on the street of knives" is GBP1.50, but we pay AU$5.99... even though the exchange rate for the last 2 years has been in the vicinity of AU$2.28
Other eBook offerings are
GBP2.50 AU$6.99 exchange rate AU$3.81
GBP6.50 AU$13.99 exchange rate AU$9.90
GBP8.50 AU$19.00 exchange rate AU$12.94
how can they do this
Oh yeah... coz we keep paying it
Mik
Where is their justification for that
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Post by: SilverMK2
Just so you know GW's facebook page just posted a reply to the change in shipping terms: GW facebook page wrote:Our CEO Mark Wells has written a letter in response to people who have contacted him to express their concerns over our decision to restrict European trade accounts from selling outside the EU. We asked him nicely if we could also post it here for all of you who have been letting us know how you feel on Facebook and so here you have his personal reply.
Sincerely,
The Web Team
Dear Hobbyists,
Thanks for contacting Games Workshop about the change in our trading terms for European accounts. I know this has frustrated you and for that I am truly sorry. As a long standing customer, you deserve to know why we made this decision.
As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.
Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.
In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centres and trade accounts.
It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas.
While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.
The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centres, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do.
That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe.
While I understand that you may still be unhappy with our decision, it was taken to ensure we can continue to support the Games Workshop hobby communities around the world through our Games Workshop Hobby Centres and local trade accounts. And to ensure we continue to invest in developing the best possible new product releases every month. I hope therefore that over time you will see the benefits of this decision for you and your hobby.
Yours sincerely,
Mark Wells
Chief Executive
18 May 2011
SilverMK2's reply wrote:As others have mentioned you are "treating" the symptom, not the cause. If you brought local prices to parity with UK/EU prices local stores would see much more business. Thinking you can cut off supply to "reasonably" priced models (ie models priced at UK/EU levels) and expect people to simply switch to paying more than double locally is laughable.
Already other manufacturers are making huge inroads to the ROW market - and that was with EU internet retailers supplying product at "reasonable" prices. LGS's and LGWS's will not see much of an upturn in sales if any (and I expect their sales to absolutely bomb for GW products) - people will simply move on to other, much more reasonably priced games.
I expect Canada will be the next market to collapse for GW, as their strengthening currency means they are already paying in the region of 25% more than the USA for the same products.
Regards the other issues oh-so-deftly avoided in this "announcement" - I really do despair for GW. One hopes that their nonsensical business practices will drive them into the ground so someone competent can buy up their IP and do things properly.
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Post by: ChrisWWII
Well, I can understand why they're doing it, they're not trying to kill themselves clearly....I may not like it, but hey, welcome to capitalism.
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Post by: Just Dave
Well, it's good to actually have some acknowledgement and response from the guy(s) in suits and I can understand WHY they're doing it, but they're going about it in a very bad way IMHO.
Basically, I second everything Silver said in his reply.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Lord Castellan Mik wrote:it's incredible when you look at simple examples
Black Library (GW publishing arm) is selling eBooks online to the world
From Australia we even pay more for electronic stock
The new story "Midnight on the street of knives" is GBP1.50, but we pay AU$5.99... even though the exchange rate for the last 2 years has been in the vicinity of AU$2.28
Other eBook offerings are
GBP2.50 AU$6.99 exchange rate AU$3.81
GBP6.50 AU$13.99 exchange rate AU$9.90
GBP8.50 AU$19.00 exchange rate AU$12.94
how can they do this
Oh yeah... coz we keep paying it
Mik
Where is their justification for that
Actually, many online sellers do this. Book Depository does this.
Simply set up a proxy for your Internet browser to appear in a UK IP and you will receive the lower prices, simply set you PayPal address or Shipping address to your AUS location.
Viola!
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Post by: zombie
At first when I heard the news I was going to get a few of the kits I wanted but after thinking of it I see GW would look at the surge of sales after the notice and only see it as support for their actions. So now I am thinking I would rather spend my money on Dystopian Wars or Firestorm Armada instead. GW with their actions has just simply burned out my love for 40k and left the embers of apathy in its place. I will just use the minis for other gaming systems.
There are only two ways I will buy GW in OZ now either
a) There is a massive price change downwards to match uk prices or
b) the content of the boxes increase to give a better perceived value for money
Neither of these will happen under the current management of GW and if it takes the collapse of GW for the management to learn then so be it. I have other gaming systems that I play and like in which I feel that I get value for money in the pricing of the units
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Post by: ph34r
Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.
As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS
and
Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK
All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?
I just don't get it.
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Post by: AvatarForm
ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.
As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS
and
Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK
All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else. Boo hoo.
I just don't get it.
Had you read the entire thread and learned all the facts you would notice that AUS RRP is double USA and UK comparative in AUD.
With the appreciation in the AUD, our prices should decrease, yet they havent. Hence, we buy from Wayland and Maelstrom.
Now, GW in their infinite wisdom have seen that UK and USA retailers cannot sell GW product to us, forcing us to buy AUS RRP. As you would know by now, these prices are already set higher than the USA and UK counterparts.
What is not to understand or "get"?
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Post by: zombie
ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.
As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS
and
Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK
All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?
I just don't get it.
Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.
Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70
So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers
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Post by: Kilkrazy
ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.
As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS
and
Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK
All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?
I just don't get it.
Why should they care what other people have to pay? The point of having a strong currency is to make imports cheap. The USA has traded on that basis since the Bretton Woods agreement.
If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more. Automatically Appended Next Post: Weight of a Trygon kit = 330g.
Weight of a Gargoyles kit = 185g.
Even allowing for packing you can get a lot of those into a 15 Kg parcel.
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Post by: ph34r
zombie wrote:Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.
Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70
So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers
The exchange rate has no effect on how much an Australian pays in AUD as long as he is being paid in AUD. If an Australian was paid in USD, your argument would be more correct. As is, no matter what the exchange rate is, the GW product still costs the same to you, because you are paid in AUD, and pay in AUD. Just because importing a product from oversees becomes cheaper than before, does not mean that you are paying more than before. You are paying the same. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote:If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more.
Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is: "Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!" instead of the correct situation: "Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
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Post by: AlexHolker
ph34r wrote:Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is:
"Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!"
instead of the correct situation:
"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
Oh really? If this really puts us even with everyone else, I assume you'd have no problem paying Australian prices instead of US prices? Or are you just hypocrite?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
ph34r wrote:zombie wrote:Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.
Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70
So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers
The exchange rate has no effect on how much an Australian pays in AUD as long as he is being paid in AUD. If an Australian was paid in USD, your argument would be more correct. As is, no matter what the exchange rate is, the GW product still costs the same to you, because you are paid in AUD, and pay in AUD. Just because importing a product from oversees becomes cheaper than before, does not mean that you are paying more than before. You are paying the same. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote:If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more.
Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is: "Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!" instead of the correct situation: "Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
You seem to have misunderstood the factual basis of the complaint. If the AUD was worth £1, making the cost of a Trygon 30AUD, and then the AUD became worth £2, making the cost of a Trygon 15AUD, why should the Australians pay 30AUD for it? Those aren't the correct figures, however they illustrate the point.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?
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Post by: Cerebrium
Ph34r, you seem to have one glaring flaw in your argument.
Australians DID have to import to get equal prices. Hell, most of the time they STILL paid a premium, thanks to long-distance shipping. They weren't doing it to get a leg up on Europe and the US. They still ended up paying more than we do to import, it was just cutting their losses.
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Post by: ph34r
H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?
Because you get paid roughly double.
The average wage in Australia is, in AUD, ~50% more than it is in the US (in USD) (ex: $67,000 AUD vs $41,000 USD)
Coincidentally, Warhammer 40k prices in Australia are also about 50% higher (ex: GKT, $74 AUD, $50 USD)
It's almost like you have been getting the exact same treatment this entire time, and now you feel entitled and angry that your massive 40k exchange rate discount card got taken away.
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Post by: Grimstonefire
I did a quick bit of number crunching.
Bear in mind that some of this the years are not totally comparable (but all within about 3 years of each other).
If you convert the median disposable income for US and AUS into £, then express the cost of a dwarf warriors regiment as a % of this:
UK: 0.141%
AUS: 0.139%
US: 0.101%
So Australians paying full australian retail prices are actually paying a fair rate compared to the UK, based on the median disposable income. Proportionally prices are higher in the UK than US or AUS (for this one thing).
The controversial bit...
I know these figures are probable incorrect, and anyone really bothered should work it out for themselves, but in order to match the UK retail rate as a % of median disposable income, the Dwarf warrior regiment would need to be:
Increased by 1% in Australia
Increased bty 38% in US...
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Post by: ph34r
AlexHolker wrote:Oh really? If this really puts us even with everyone else, I assume you'd have no problem paying Australian prices instead of US prices? Or are you just hypocrite?
If you give me the same average wage increase that Australians have over Americans, and pay me in AUD, I will gladly pay Australian prices. Good attempt at a false dichotomy though. At least you are trying hard. Automatically Appended Next Post: Cerebrium wrote:Ph34r, you seem to have one glaring flaw in your argument.
Australians DID have to import to get equal prices. Hell, most of the time they STILL paid a premium, thanks to long-distance shipping. They weren't doing it to get a leg up on Europe and the US. They still ended up paying more than we do to import, it was just cutting their losses.
Nope. See above. Remember during this time that Australians are paid in AUD, at a proportionally higher rate than, say, US workers are paid USD. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote:You seem to have misunderstood the factual basis of the complaint.
If the AUD was worth £1, making the cost of a Trygon 30AUD, and then the AUD became worth £2, making the cost of a Trygon 15AUD, why should the Australians pay 30AUD for it? Those aren't the correct figures, however they illustrate the point.
Right. No sane Australian would pay more than they could get away with, hence buying from oversees. However, the GW embargo does not put Australia at some huge disadvantage. Rather, it puts them on the same level as the rest of the world. Australia got its free "Massive Internet Discount" card taken away. A power that nobody else in the world had. My counterargument is against Australians that cry oppression and unfairness instead of recognizing that hey, welcome to the club, now you pay the same as everyone else. With respect to the money that you earn.
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Post by: LunaHound
ph34r wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"
How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?
Because you get paid roughly double.
The average wage in Australia is, in AUD, ~50% more than it is in the US (in USD) (ex: $67,000 AUD vs $41,000 USD)
Coincidentally, Warhammer 40k prices in Australia are also about 50% higher (ex: GKT, $74 AUD, $50 USD)
It's almost like you have been getting the exact same treatment this entire time, and now you feel entitled and angry that your massive 40k exchange rate discount card got taken away.
How much Australians get their minimum wage reflects the strength of their government. Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much an item should be sold at.
Let me ask you this , say you pay $2 for mcdonald burger. Someone that makes 100x more money than you, should they be legally forced to pay $200 for burger?
Nope!
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Post by: ph34r
LunaHound wrote:How much Australians get their minimum wage reflects the strength of their government. Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much an item should be sold at.
Let me ask you this , say you pay $2 for mcdonald burger. Someone that makes 100x more money than you, should they be legally forced to pay $200 for burger?
Nope!
Not analogous.
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Post by: Lord Castellan Mik
I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda.
As you can see, the Government figures are based upon statistics without a thought for reality. While the reality is that most workers are well below advertised averages unless they work well above average overtime, or are management or highly paid executives… hence the blowout of the statistical average wage for the non-average worker.
The Governmental advertising hype for potential immigrants:
Average full-time earnings in Australia were $64,641 per annum in 2010. (According to the Bureau of Statistics.)
If overtime and bonuses are included, earnings were $67,116 per annum.
The average male wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $69,233 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $69,997.
The average female wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $56,950 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $57,704.
Australia's best-paid workers are miners, whose ordinary earnings average $103,111 a year.
Next come professional, scientific and technical services workers who average $77,761 per annum.
Retail workers average $48,703.
The poorest wages are found in the accommodation and restaurant sector where full-time workers earn $46,306 on average.
The reality according to Australian Industry Awards: Most workers are at Level 2
INDUSTRY.....................MINIMUM WAGE (Weekly / Hourly) IN AU$
Food and Beverage.......Level 1 - L6.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 684.50 / 18.01
Hair and Beauty............ Level 1 - L6.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 721.00 / 18.97
Gardener / Landscaper.. Intro Level – L5.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 684.50 / 18.01
General Manufacturing.. Level 1 - L14.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 897.50 / 23.62
Textile Manufacturing... General Hand.. 569.90 / 14.98
..Operator G3 – G1... 586.50 / 15.43 - 631.10 / 16.61
..Storeworker L1 – L4... 609.00 / 16.02 - 667.10 / 17.56
Motor Vehicle Production.. Level 1 – L5.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 645.40 / 16.98
..Forklift Driver............. 629.82 / 16.57
Security Officer................. Level 1 – L5.... 640.40 / 16.85 - 703.05 / 18.50
Restaurant / Hospitality.... Intro Level – L6.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 724.20 / 19.06
General Retail / Sales Assistant.. Level 1 - L6.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 701.00 / 18.45
Fast Food Retail............... Level 1 - L3.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 674.00 / 17.74
General Office Clerk......... Level 1 - L3.... 606.00 / 15.95 - 701.00 / 18.45
Cleaner............................. Level 1 - L3.... 608.80 / 16.03 - 663.60 / 17.47
These are weekly / hourly gross wage, before tax is taken out....
Australian tax rates is another story... currently at 33% for most workers
Mik
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Post by: Sidstyler
$41,000 is the average wage? I'm working full time and I barely make half that.
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Post by: ph34r
Lord Castellan Mik wrote:I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda.
I too have read that information. Does that lead you to conclude, by reading your government's data, with authority over that of your governments stated average wage, that there is in fact a different average wage that should be used for purpose of argument? You seemed to trail off into statistics. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sidstyler wrote:$41,000 is the average wage? I'm working full time and I barely make half that.
Welp, that's why they call that minimum wage.
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Post by: Grimstonefire
That's why I tried to use the disposable median salary.
It is much more accurate as a comparison than the average (before the cost of living/tax/benefits).
9667
Post by: Lord Castellan Mik
Government statistical averages, particularly wages, are blown out of reality especially dependent upon stable population numbers.
In Australia, we have a 25 mil population with a same as rest of the world type of government management system and higher corporations executive management system, however, we do not have the population percentages of workers to make any statistical figure reasonable or average at all.
Mik
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Post by: ph34r
Lord Castellan Mik wrote:Government statistical averages, particularly wages, are blown out of reality especially dependent upon stable population numbers.
In Australia, we have a 25 mil population with a same as rest of the world type of government management system and higher corporations executive management system, however, we do not have the population percentages of workers to make any statistical figure reasonable or average at all.
Mik
We can agree, though, that Australian workers are payed a larger numerical amount of their AUD, and pay also a larger numerical amount of their AUD, than American workers are payed and pay for products. Yeah?
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Post by: LunaHound
ph34r wrote:Lord Castellan Mik wrote:Government statistical averages, particularly wages, are blown out of reality especially dependent upon stable population numbers.
In Australia, we have a 25 mil population with a same as rest of the world type of government management system and higher corporations executive management system, however, we do not have the population percentages of workers to make any statistical figure reasonable or average at all.
Mik
We can agree, though, that Australian workers are payed a larger numerical amount of their AUD, and pay also a larger numerical amount of their AUD, than American workers are payed and pay for products. Yeah?
But how does this make charging AU extras , fair? Other than "because GW can", charge more on a "richer" target.
41722
Post by: Solourus
ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.
All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?
If GW makes 100% or more profit on models sold in Australia (Im fairly sure we dont tax the import of plastic soldiers, so no VAT equivilent) when compared to their margins on UK/US sales, then how have we been getting a massive Discount compared to Americans?
According to the statistics Australians are just richer on average than Americans (Although as others have mentioned this is mostly due to a small % of people working in the mining industry), It dosent mean we cant fell miffed if they start charging us twice as much as what is avaliable to the UK and US.
ph34r wrote:
We can agree, though, that Australian workers are payed a larger numerical amount of their AUD, and pay also a larger numerical amount of their AUD, than American workers are payed and pay for products. Yeah?
Not entirely true, things like TV's, Computer parts, Bikes and other items that are imported tend to be closer to the exchange rate. Basicaly if there is room for competition then the prices drop.
However the exceptions are when there is a virtual monopoly on the market (Apple, GW, Computer games, Paper books etc.) and of course things that are tied to population wealth like food and housing.
Actualy housing is an issue at the moment because in alot of places (perth any one?) only people involved in the mining industry can afford the sky high prices.
Now Im not saying that there shouldent be a markup, but the only thing GW realy needs to pay is AUS wages to the staff at the stores. Everything else is made produced and shiped from places with lower average wages and costs. So at most a 30% increase is justifed, not a 100% one.
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Post by: Sidstyler
ph34r wrote:\ Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sidstyler wrote:$41,000 is the average wage? I'm working full time and I barely make half that.
Welp, that's why they call that minimum wage.
I make a little over $14 an hour, that's twice the minimum wage here in Missouri IIRC. Not that it matters since it's still feth all compared to $ 40k a year but...
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Post by: CadianCommander
Yuh-huh, Perth here, hello. You get paid more in Perth for doing the same equivalent job than other cities in Australia.
....because living cost here is so high. Sorry, rent or mortgage comes before miniatures. So when prices get hiked and you can't buy them cheaper from overseas, the miniatures lose out for that roof over your head.
And after living in other Australian cities, try paying a small fortune for fresh food of terrible, terrible quality. Paint and brushes or food...sorry, new project gets put on hold again.
Mining, yes. If your family can hack the fly in fly out, if you can hack the fly in fly out, as long as you don't make any mistakes on minesite (screw up once, and you're out) then yeah, you can afford it. The rest of us....not so much.
I love this "you earn more than us so you can afford it" tripe. Most my friends playing 40k are struggling to keep the hobby up because of low paying jobs/students/mortgage/young families. Another nail in the coffin.
Or as someone said to me today: "Don't GW want us to play 40k anymore?"
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Post by: AvatarForm
ph34r wrote:Lord Castellan Mik wrote:Government statistical averages, particularly wages, are blown out of reality especially dependent upon stable population numbers.
In Australia, we have a 25 mil population with a same as rest of the world type of government management system and higher corporations executive management system, however, we do not have the population percentages of workers to make any statistical figure reasonable or average at all.
Mik
We can agree, though, that Australian workers are payed a larger numerical amount of their AUD, and pay also a larger numerical amount of their AUD, than American workers are payed and pay for products. Yeah?
At first I was of the belief that you lacked basic economic understanding, but now I am to believe that you have a personal issue with Aussies living and working in a more fair IR environment?
is this correct or are you simply trolling the thread with obtuse responses?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
How much does the average house or apartment cost in the US?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
It may well be true that today an average Australian salary is worth double an average US salary right now. That is because of the decline of the USD and strength of the AUD. It wasn't true five years ago.
The relative movement of currencies makes GBP denominated goods especially cheap for Australians at the moment. That's nothing to do with ideas about fair wages and costs within a national market.
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Post by: rich1231
Hi everyone, just to let you know we have responded via our facebook page http://www.facebook.com/waylandgamesltd
Thanks
Wayland
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Post by: Kroothawk
Can you repost it here?
Not everyone wants to be part of the private data ripping website Facebook.
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Post by: Warboss Gutrip
I don't have facebook/won't get facebook... What's the news?
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Post by: Just Dave
Hi Everyone,
Before we start, if you'd allow me to present a little background about Wayland before we get into the meat of the issue I'd be grateful.
We laid out our little web store back in August 2008, our beginnings were humble, with my brother and I packing orders in a spare room. It wasn't ideal but it was what we had to start with and we grew and grew through the continued business of our loyal customers through four warehouses to our current location. In thirty three months we have gone from a spare room in Essex, UK with my brother and I packing boxes to a global operation with fourteen full time staff which is now positioned as one of the largest if not the largest independent hobby retailer in the world. We run our business today as we always have done, in a professional and ethical manner both within the letter and the spirit of the law. Almost all suppliers like us, customers enjoy our openness and service-oriented outlook and whilst we're realistic enough to know we're not by any means perfect we will always strive to improve to ensure our central tenet of great prices and better service.
Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found at: http://www.facebook.com/notes/games-workshop/our-changes-to-european-trading-terms/227996923881812
Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers (and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.
I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).
In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.
Over the next few weeks we'll be providing updates as to how the process of implementing these changes is coming along, the chances are we'll use Facebook to disseminate this information as it is a great platform for customers to interact with us and each other.
We look forward to continue to serve you and we always will.
Keep on Wargaming.
Richard.
Wayland Games
I wonder if they should stop stocking GW products altogether?! Obviously it would significantly cut into their profits and customer base etc. and is probably a bad move business-wise, but Games Workshop doesn't seem to have done anything to acknowledge the service they provide and instead repeatedly kick them in the nads, it seems.
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Post by: CadianCommander
Well done, Wayland Games.
The online suppliers that aren't GW do much for promoting the hobby. How many times have you been looking for one thing on the net, to see at the online store that there's something shiny and interesting you hadn't previously noticed? If it's not available in your country, you ignore it.
I felt sorry for a GW staffer that was around my place today. Young lad putting up with the rest of us talking about this situation - essentially bagging out the company that pays his bills. But the look on his face when he found out our non-GW LFGS sold GW products cheaper than GW..... it's noone's fault but GW that other suppliers sell their own product cheaper than they do.
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Post by: Asuron
Sad to hear, hope it turns out its not legal and you can keep sending stuff to us( no doubt GW would want to cancel your contract if it did though, thats the backwards way they seem to operate)
Out of curiosity what was the rough percentage that Australians made to your sales
Just hope the embargo doesn't cost you tons of money if it was a big percentage
It was such a shame to, I had just discovered you guys and enjoyed your excellent services.
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Post by: Warboss Gutrip
I trust that wayland will still honour any orders made pre-embargo? I may need to make some serious last-minute orders... *crosses fingers and prays*
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Post by: rich1231
Warboss, you have no concerns.
Asuron, can't divulge those figures. We are generally a European retailer but have lots of customers around the world that we intend to keep serving.
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Post by: adamantium|wang
Cross-posting this, it seems to be more relevant to the discussion in this thread.
adamantium|wang wrote:Incomechat.
There was a bit of manufactured furore here recently when the Government decided to restrict the growth of welfare payments to people earning over $150,000/year. The Opposition took up the cry of "class warfare!" which was duly repeated via the usual shock jocks and news sources. It lasted for all of 3 days after people realised they don't make anywhere near that much. In fact, only 1.5% of taxpayers earn this amount or higher.
I bring this up because it has led to a nice piece of analysis of just how much people in this country actually earn.
We have a very obvious two-speed economy in Australia right now. Up the top end is the mining industry, who (while they do have a considerable rate of turnover these days) are busy digging up as much as they can and shovelling it into the insatiable furnace that is China. We are in the midst of a resources boom that has helped prop up the national economy and contributed hugely to growth. Also in the top end are tradesmen, who are working through a 10 year long housing bubble and a huge skills shortage, and the usual line up of CEOs.
Towards the bottom end is everyone else. The rest of the economy was slugged hard by the GFC and while Federal stimulus spending and lending guarantees staved off the worst, it's not all pretty. Retail in particular has had a hard time, even with stimulus handouts, and a spate of natural disasters has piled on even more bad news.
Because of this skewed economy using the average wage is a poor indicator of what people are actually earning. The top end of town artificially inflates the number as more and more people see their wages slump into lower, already accounted for brackets.
The blog that I linked shows the average weekly ordinary time earnings for full time adults to be just north of $66,000/year, but this mean figure is skewed by our two tier economy. Looking at tax statistics from 2010, he concludes that the median figure for full time workers is just under $55,000/year. This however excludes part time workers and the ever growing number of casual and underemployed workers. Once these people are included, the figure drops to just over $44,000/year. This means half of the Australian workforce earns under $44,000/year, which at current exchange rates is just under 29,000 pounds a year. A far cry from the $66,000 average.
Just something to think on.
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Post by: Asuron
rich1231 wrote:Warboss, you have no concerns.
Asuron, can't divulge those figures. We are generally a European retailer but have lots of customers around the world that we intend to keep serving.
Not an issue=)
Figured you couldn't tell me but, but I figured I might as well ask to see if I could get an answer
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Post by: Sam__theRelentless
Well, one thing I can say is that at least GW has given us some explanation, however slight or unreasonable it may seem to some, and I think that's no longer the issue.
What I don't understand, however, is how it's possible for indies and the like to actually sell the miniatures at lower prices. This is probably a n00b thing to say, but I really don't get it... Don't they pay the same prices as we do on GW.com?
Because, as Scott Pilgrim said, if there's a key element in the backstory that helps us solve this issue, then we need to know. I think once we've established how this AUS/USD/ UK discrepancy came about in the first place, then we can talk solution/justification... Sorry if I've got something majorly wrong here
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Post by: agnosto
Just read the GW letter. Does this mean that prices will be going down in the US because the dollar is much weaker than its "traditional value"?
Nope.
Lame excuse. Next!
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Post by: AlexHolker
Sam__theRelentless wrote:What I don't understand, however, is how it's possible for indies and the like to actually sell the miniatures at lower prices. This is probably a n00b thing to say, but I really don't get it... Don't they pay the same prices as we do on GW.com?
No. A manufacturer sells the product to its trade accounts for a price below market price. So if GWUK makes an item for $5 with an RRP of $20, they might sell it to you directly for $20, or they will sell it to Maelstrom for $12, who then sell it to you for $18.
But that's beside the point. The reason Maelstrom and Wayland games are so popular in Australia isn't because they're $2 below the UK RRP, it's because GWAU adds an extra 60%+ surcharge to everything they sell. The choice isn't between buying it for $18 from Maelstrom or $20 from GW, it's a choice between buying it for $18 from Maelstrom or $35 from GW.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Great explanation there by AlexHolker. Bang on the money.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Well GW has now screwed themselves more over than 14 year old discovering their opinion doesn't matter
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Post by: Sam__theRelentless
@AlexHolker: thanks, I understand it now. So there's no actual reasonable basis (not including GW's official excuse which many may deem unreasonable) for them to do this!! Damn!
Back to the "income/price" debate, I guess...
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Post by: Kalidane
New Zealand _median_ hourly rate for full time wage/salary earner = $21.58
After tax = $18.275
UK _median_ annual £25,879
After tax = £19,960 or £9.596 hourly
NZ Space Wolves Battleforce = $170.70 or 9.34 hours
UK Space Wolves Battleforce = £51.25 or 5.34 hours
In the UK 15-20% discounts are easily found further reducing the work-hours required to make a purchase. Not so much in NZ.
Oz data will look pretty similar to this I'm guessing. IIRC the UK price goes to £60 in June.
Me buying from the UK saved around 45% off the local price. Which brings me to pretty much the same work-hours cost as a person in the UK. That was fair and equitable. The new plan does price out people. Many either cannot or will not pay silly prices. Game over man, game over.
Edit for speeling. It's hard.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
The "reasonable' basis is: you price your products to what each market will bear.
It's why cars are cheaper in some countries than others, and so on.
43167
Post by: Sam__theRelentless
Yeah, some countries do have better economies etc. But cars are cheaper in some countries than others based (I think ) more on actual costs incurred in terms of shipping and taxes, and less on actual market things...
Keep in mind a single car (we're talking Aston Martin here) is about 100 000 pounds, which automatically brings with it all sorts of random import taxes etc. That is approximately 58 823 plastic space marines, and so it's just not comparable. Plus, it weighs about 2-3 tons, and a space marine box of 3 is what, 50g? It's just not comparable in terms of what the consumer is actually paying for! Transporting a car is one thing, markup for pure profit is another.
Still, economic motives are a difficult thing, and I'm no expert... I trust that the GW people know a lot more about market forces than I and most of Dakka probably do, but that doesn't automatically justify their decisions...
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Post by: Kilkrazy
nosferatu1001 wrote:The "reasonable' basis is: you price your products to what each market will bear.
It's why cars are cheaper in some countries than others, and so on.
Let's see if the antipodean market will bear the new prices.
16689
Post by: notprop
Just Dave wrote:Hi Everyone,
Before we start, if you'd allow me to present a little background about Wayland before we get into the meat of the issue I'd be grateful.
We laid out our little web store back in August 2008, our beginnings were humble, with my brother and I packing orders in a spare room. It wasn't ideal but it was what we had to start with and we grew and grew through the continued business of our loyal customers through four warehouses to our current location. In thirty three months we have gone from a spare room in Essex, UK with my brother and I packing boxes to a global operation with fourteen full time staff which is now positioned as one of the largest if not the largest independent hobby retailer in the world. We run our business today as we always have done, in a professional and ethical manner both within the letter and the spirit of the law. Almost all suppliers like us, customers enjoy our openness and service-oriented outlook and whilst we're realistic enough to know we're not by any means perfect we will always strive to improve to ensure our central tenet of great prices and better service.
...............snip................................
Over the next few weeks we'll be providing updates as to how the process of implementing these changes is coming along, the chances are we'll use Facebook to disseminate this information as it is a great platform for customers to interact with us and each other.
We look forward to continue to serve you and we always will.
Keep on Wargaming.
Richard.
Wayland Games
I wonder if they should stop stocking GW products altogether?! Obviously it would significantly cut into their profits and customer base etc. and is probably a bad move business-wise, but Games Workshop doesn't seem to have done anything to acknowledge the service they provide and instead repeatedly kick them in the nads, it seems.
They might have to. The tail as they say does not wag the dog!
While I commend Wayland's stand, it was poking the hornets nest like this that saw Maelstrom fall out with Battlefront.
GW's Aus based retail partners will shift more stock to the Aus market than Wayland. It is they that GW will keep happy in this situation and not Wayland.
I really would suggest that Rich, however impassioned he feels, not go running to the GWs perceived betters until such time as he has exhausted correspondence directly. In my experience (of being in GWs shoes), you really do come down hard on anyone pulling this sort of thing.
I like Wayland (being my local gaming store) and I would hate to see community minded action this backfire on them.
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