*prepares for the inevitable AT-AT vs Titan thread*

Brother Coa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Come on, everyone knows Tau Railguns are the best weapons ever created.

Angels of Death, Doomsday Monolith, Exterminatus bomb, Blackstone fortress, Bloodtide machine, Nova Cannon...
Should I continue?

Not necessary. But I think it's necessary you start reading entire posts before replying. Because in the very next sentence, I had the following.

-Loki- wrote:... The projectile moves so fast, it hits you before it leaves the barrel. And how is this possible by today laws of psysics? If I am 1000km away how can the projectile hit me before it exit the barrel? This doesen't make sense at all, like starting an engine before using keys...

They should totally make a special rule for it in the game where if you fire it on turn 6, you will actually hit the enemy on turn 3.[/b]

I leave it to you to figure out why reading the rest of that post would have an effect on the first sentence.

First of all - this question is regarding the fluff - not table rules.
Second off all Tau Railguns, aldo awesome guns, are not the BEST WEAPON EVER CREATED IN 40k UNIVERSE. They can't blow entire planet, they can't move at lightning speed, they can't tear down enemy to molecules etc...

AS you can see, I was implementing to fluff, not table. And even on table Railguns are not the ( again best weapon reference ), personal teleportes are.

For feths sake. Do you have a sarcastic bone in your body? It was fething oozing from my comment.

It is the same sort of idea.Massive walkers with impenatrable armour,advancing,while being harried by aircraft and foot soldiers.

There also several massive differences between the two situations.

I am not saying they are the same.It just reminds me of it.

If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles. So I imagine swarming the carapace with jump troops armed with every Fusion Blaster in the Tau Empire could take a Titan down. It would also look ridiculous.

it would look awesome.And be problematic for other Titans.Do they let the titan get over run,or blast it ourselves?

Let the anti-boarding parties and close in defenses handle it. Not that they're going to easily blast through a Titans armour with a Fusion Blaster.

iproxtaco wrote:He wasn't being serious, Coa. He was being sarcastic.

It's hard for me to see those things....you know, English not being my primary language...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:
For feths sake. Do you have a sarcastic bone in your body? It was fething oozing from my comment.

I apologize, I didn't know you were being sarcastic.

Deadshot wrote:it would look awesome.And be problematic for other Titans.Do they let the titan get over run,or blast it ourselves?

Walk through the next building and brush them off seem to be a course of action taken before.

Hahaha.Never thought of that.

My answer is, they wouldn’t have to. Tau don’t place much value on holding ground and therefor have little reason to engage Titans in combat. Tau Codex mentions Mantas exchanging fire with Titans of some type, which points towards the fact that a Manta is somewhere close to a Reaver in power, but much more common. Other than Mantas, Tau would use seeker missiles to overwhelm Void shields and attack weaker areas with massed railgun fire and more missiles. The Tau also use EMP warheads (fired by spacecraft), that could be used to disable Titans while ground forces move in for the kill.

Massive range of Titans is of no consequence, as Tau would attack from concealed emplacements, by dropping from space aboard Mantas or when Titans are being deployed to avoid their great range.

The Tau have no good counters for a Titan legion, but as mentioned, Tau would likely avoid engaging it in combat, and focus instead on destroying vulnerable fuel depots, auxiliary units or even simply engaging starships capable of transporting Titans to strand them on one planet. I think that Tau warp jumps are faster than Imperial equivalents on small, interplanetary scale due to Imperium needing to plot course by Astronomican, while Tau wouldn’t have to. Thus, Tau could still hold the system Imperium attacks, forcing Titans to be deployed separately so they can be taken down.

TL, DR: Tau would avoid direct battle with titans.

Which whilst sound tactically in one respect, is idiotic in another. Leaving a Titan Legion, let alone a single one to wreak havoc uncontested by any stern resistance isn't clever.

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles.

Well, realistically, you don't want to be doing that either. Unless you're fighting on the planet for pure survival (say, against a Tyranid swarm), then you really don't want to be indiscriminantly bombarding the planet you're trying to win. You want its land and resources for your own use. They touch on this in one of the Gaunts Ghosts novels - why not bombard the planet from orbit? Because they want the planet, not a smoking ruin.

Obviously some of the fluff is glossed over to emphasise giant ground battles. Tyranids, for example, have the ability to make spores that kill all life that isn't Tyranid. Simply covering the planet in this, then harvesting the goo left is preferable to ground war that costs them. Against a Necron Tomb World, it's not likely they're going to fight on the ground, as those worlds tend to be little more than a barren rock. But that does tend to limit the ability to make up scenarios and fluff concerning those races.

Hashbeth wrote:A round fired in a straight line at 12x the speed of sound is a waste of energy for a kinetic round. If anything, it shows that tau misuse technology, as a ballistic trajectory would do far more damage far easier.

At 12 x the speed of sound, air doesn't start wrapping around a projectile like a blanket. If anything it would be pressure expansion in the tank (caused by disturbing the atmosphere inside the vehicle) rather than pulling everything out of the tank.

You're forgetting the GW has absolutely no idea what a railgun does. According to them there is no explosion.

The other problem is with the space superiority tactic is that Tau ships are also not designed to hold ground in space. they are more adept at launching fighter craft and torpedos rather then engaging their enemy ship to ship. this isn't condusive to forcing naval control of the skies.

I also doubt the Tau have Space to Surface weapons other then torpedos. I have never had mention of them conducting orbital bombardments. Ion Cannons and Railguns don't strike me as ideal bombardment weapons.



@Kallimakus: Tau space travel is actually much slower then Warp Drives. In addition they can't make huge jumps. this means their ships must resupply often and they can't reach places much further then the Damocles gulf. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_and_the_Warp

Grey Templar wrote:The other problem is with the space superiority tactic is that Tau ships are also not designed to hold ground in space. they are more adept at launching fighter craft and torpedos rather then engaging their enemy ship to ship. this isn't condusive to forcing naval control of the skies.

I also doubt the Tau have Space to Surface weapons other then torpedos. I have never had mention of them conducting orbital bombardments. Ion Cannons and Railguns don't strike me as ideal bombardment weapons.



@Kallimakus: Tau space travel is actually much slower then Warp Drives. In addition they can't make huge jumps. this means their ships must resupply often and they can't reach places much further then the Damocles gulf. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_and_the_Warp

Which brings us back full circle to the fact they would be forced to engage in gorilla tactics, attack the suporting units and the machine will sucome to war of attrition, howcan it fire without ammo? "well then it'll just stomp around,duh!" well then it will run out of fuel.

Kallimakus wrote:The Tau have no good counters for a Titan legion, but as mentioned, Tau would likely avoid engaging it in combat, and focus instead on destroying vulnerable fuel depots, auxiliary units or even simply engaging starships capable of transporting Titans to strand them on one planet.

The titan(s) may give you a bloody nose but if your on an entire planet thats about all they can give you because they can't be everywhere at once, thats why guerrilla warfare is so effective.

Newabortion wrote:
Which brings us back full circle to the fact they would be forced to engage in gorilla tactics, attack the supporting units and the machine will sucome to war of attrition, how can it fire without ammo? "well then it'll just stomp around,duh!" well then it will run out of fuel.

Run for the hills!
They use gorilla tactics....

The machine is the impersonification of the omnissiah.
The omnissiah provides, so it can never run out of ammo nor fuel.

BTW, some weapons may use ammo, but some don't. Same with fuel. Giant flamers may use fuel, but the engine isn't running on gas...

Newabortion wrote:
The titan(s) may give you a bloody nose but if your on an entire planet thats about all they can give you because they can't be everywhere at once, thats why guerrilla warfare is so effective.

Guerilla warfare depends on the target interested in preserving installations and civilians.
The imperium may be willing to sacrifice both...
A slow but steady advance and levelling everything at sight isn't out of question.

1hadhq wrote:
The machine is the impersonification of the omnissiah.
The omnissiah provides, so it can never run out of ammo nor fuel.

BTW, some weapons may use ammo, but some don't. Same with fuel. Giant flamers may use fuel, but the engine isn't running on gas...

Well TBH I don't/didn't know they are omnipresent infinite resource machines of uberdeath/giveupnow, Sorry for my ignorance.

1hadhq wrote:Guerilla warfare depends on the target interested in preserving installations and civilians.
The imperium may be willing to sacrifice both...
A slow but steady advance and levelling everything at sight isn't out of question.

They could go for the latter but if the tau acomplised the task of forceing the Imperium to "police the grounds" from one end of a continent to another I would say they did a damn fine job of tieing up massive resources of the imperium and I would hope the tau empire could/would take advantage of this and counter-attack elsewhere in the system.

Newabortion wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
The machine is the impersonification of the omnissiah.
The omnissiah provides, so it can never run out of ammo nor fuel.

BTW, some weapons may use ammo, but some don't. Same with fuel. Giant flamers may use fuel, but the engine isn't running on gas...

Well TBH I don't/didn't know they are omnipresent infinite resource machines of uberdeath/giveupnow, Sorry for my ignorance.

A lot of the titans weapons draw power from the reactor. And they arent using promethium to power a titan, they have their own on board reactor. Which TECHNICALLY should allow them to run effectively forever, but I dont know about coolant restraints and the like. Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing. Of course, megabolters and the like will have ammo reserves that can be depleted. But if the ammo is depleted, think how much damage its already done. At that point, killing the titan is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory.

Grey Templar wrote:The other problem is with the space superiority tactic is that Tau ships are also not designed to hold ground in space. they are more adept at launching fighter craft and torpedos rather then engaging their enemy ship to ship. this isn't condusive to forcing naval control of the skies.

I also doubt the Tau have Space to Surface weapons other then torpedos. I have never had mention of them conducting orbital bombardments. Ion Cannons and Railguns don't strike me as ideal bombardment weapons.



@Kallimakus: Tau space travel is actually much slower then Warp Drives. In addition they can't make huge jumps. this means their ships must resupply often and they can't reach places much further then the Damocles gulf. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_and_the_Warp

Actually, railguns ARE good for bombardment, and ship-mounted RGs are lance counts-as in BFG.

-
Ion cannons would also be fairly ideal.

Newabortion wrote:Which brings us back full circle to the fact they would be forced to engage in gorilla tactics, attack the suporting units and the machine will sucome to war of attrition,

Guerilla warfare only works when the civilian population will support and feed you. If the civilian population is Tau, they will be exterminated by the Imperium and cannot offer support. If the civilian population are is Human, there's a good chance they support the mighty God-Emperor of Mankind over the Great Good of the Tau. Even if they do support the Tau, the Imperium will come down hard on them. Without support from local population, the Tau will not be able to find food and such. Not to mention that that would require the Imperium to not defend its supply lines, and leave any command centres of the Tau vulnerable to being wiped out.

howcan it fire without ammo? "well then it'll just stomp around,duh!" well then it will run out of fuel.

As said, many of its weaponsd raw power from the reactor. Which, by the way, will not run out of fuel (or at least, not any time soon).

Randomonioum wrote: Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing.

I would assume that they return for maintanence (if they've been in battle, or simply to check) and also to refill any solid ammunition. I'm not sure if the crew need sleep, or how much they would need if they do.

Also, according to an old White Dwarf magazine Imperator Titans are powered by a "minature sun" and are capable of "dealing death to whole armies at a time". I love the hyperbole of Games Workshop. Interestingly, it also says that Emperor Titans are only 25 to 40 metres tall.

Of course, megabolters and the like will have ammo reserves that can be depleted. But if the ammo is depleted, think how much damage its already done. At that point, killing the titan is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory.

Which aren't their most powerful weapons, unfortunately for the Tau.

1hadhq wrote:
Guerilla warfare depends on the target interested in preserving installations and civilians.
The imperium may be willing to sacrifice both...
A slow but steady advance and levelling everything at sight isn't out of question.

With a Titan legion (so around 30-50 titans) it would take centuries. A planet of a few billion would be almost impossible to eradicate by advancing slowly, since they would retreat faster while slowly chipping away at the invasion force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles.

Well, realistically, you don't want to be doing that either. Unless you're fighting on the planet for pure survival (say, against a Tyranid swarm), then you really don't want to be indiscriminantly bombarding the planet you're trying to win.

Except you don't have to bombard indiscriminately to kill a handful of targets. A single nuke or lance barrage while they're manouvering between cities and it's problem solved-a few miles of already unused land off the map isn't a bad price to pay for destroying multiple, near irreplaceable god machines.

TrollPie wrote:
With a Titan legion (so around 60-80 titans) it would take centuries. A planet of a few billion would be almost impossible to eradicate by advancing slowly, since they would retreat faster while slowly chipping away at the invasion force.

Centuries?
A city is levelled in minutes.
Imperial positions may take some time, because their fortified but still centuries is far off.
A lonely group of regiments from krieg bombed a renegade hive into oblivion and beyond in 10 years,( one who died in 8 and 2 years were spent to make sure...)
Titans simply outrange a lot of things, so they can take their time and clear the path before the masses of skitarii swarm in.

The issue is:
- would the titan legio just kill everything on sight?
- if so, guerilla tactics don't work as there be nothing to hide.

And TrollPie statement involves another question: How would Tau deal with ~50 Titans in the same time?
They only faced max 4 in a battle so far ( not sure about numbers in Damocles but 4 were on Taros ).

And by the Emperor please don't post " they would use 50 gazillion Railguns there" answer...

1hadhq wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
With a Titan legion (so around 60-80 titans) it would take centuries. A planet of a few billion would be almost impossible to eradicate by advancing slowly, since they would retreat faster while slowly chipping away at the invasion force.

Centuries?
A city is levelled in minutes.
Imperial positions may take some time, because their fortified but still centuries is far off.
A lonely group of regiments from krieg bombed a renegade hive into oblivion and beyond in 10 years,( one who died in 8 and 2 years were spent to make sure...)
Titans simply outrange a lot of things, so they can take their time and clear the path before the masses of skitarii swarm in.

Combat potential is simply the end result of well thought out logistics. The logistics involved in transporting 50 massive Titans to every single population centre on an entire planet-as in, hundreds of millions of square miles of land-would make your head explode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:And TrollPie statement involves another question: How would Tau deal with ~50 Titans in the same time?
They only faced max 4 in a battle so far ( not sure about numbers in Damocles but 4 were on Taros ).

And by the Emperor please don't post " they would use 50 gazillion Railguns there" answer...

They wouldn't deal with them at the same time. Seperate them, drain their resources, outmanouvre them and hit them when they can't respond are the easiest ways of dealing with big targets.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Randomonioum wrote: Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing.

I would assume that they return for maintanence (if they've been in battle, or simply to check) and also to refill any solid ammunition. I'm not sure if the crew need sleep, or how much they would need if they do.

Also, according to an old White Dwarf magazine Imperator Titans are powered by a "minature sun" and are capable of "dealing death to whole armies at a time". I love the hyperbole of Games Workshop. Interestingly, it also says that Emperor Titans are only 25 to 40 metres tall.

Sounds to me like a fusion reaction by any other name. Which by all sci-fi standards would be enough to power a titan. Maintenance of it would be an issue, while servitors and self repair systems can keep it functional for extended periods of time, they are going to run out of materials and/or fuel/coolant to keep it operational. Although for the most part, we can assume its going to last the battle. I also seem to remember somewhere that the plasma weapons draw their material directly from the reactor. Sort of relevant, also cool.

On the guerilla warfare front, do you really expect the legio to walk their titans into an area without scouting first? At the very least, they will walk in warhounds ahead of the group, to auspex and keep an eye on likely areas on attack, and possibly deal some damage ahead of the pack. More likely the supporting skitarii or guardsmen are going to advance ahead of the column some, and either spring the ambushes or be able to support directly when they are sprung. Hit and run attacks are pretty much out of the question too. Either they have to sneak up, and get detected by the support groups, or they go in hard and fast, get detected at long range by the titans powerful scanning gear (They ARE using some of the best auspex equipment available to the IoM, and thats saying something) and picked off before they reach visible range.

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles. So I imagine swarming the carapace with jump troops armed with every Fusion Blaster in the Tau Empire could take a Titan down. It would also look ridiculous.

Kind of a non-answer, anyway. If anyone can get a completely secure position in orbit, any WH40K ship could just bombard whatever the hell they felt like for as long as they want. If you don't have any space resistance, and if you don't mind reducing the planet to a smouldering heap, and if you have nothing else to do with three kilometers of death on a plasma engine, then yeah, go nuts, but it doesn't favor any one faction over the others.

TrollPie wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:And TrollPie statement involves another question: How would Tau deal with ~50 Titans in the same time?
They only faced max 4 in a battle so far ( not sure about numbers in Damocles but 4 were on Taros ).

And by the Emperor please don't post " they would use 50 gazillion Railguns there" answer...

They wouldn't deal with them at the same time. Seperate them, drain their resources, outmanouvre them and hit them when they can't respond are the easiest ways of dealing with big targets.

Hm, true. But Titans are very hard to separate when they operate in these numbers. And they always have Guard and Mechanicus support.
Tau just luck recourse to deal with that kind of battle force.

Arturius wrote:

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles. So I imagine swarming the carapace with jump troops armed with every Fusion Blaster in the Tau Empire could take a Titan down. It would also look ridiculous.

If you don't have any space resistance, and if you don't mind reducing the planet to a smouldering heap, and if you have nothing else to do with three kilometers of death on a plasma engine, then yeah, go nuts, but it doesn't favor any one faction over the others.

-Loki- said a similair thing earlier on. Here:

TrollPie wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles.

Well, realistically, you don't want to be doing that either. Unless you're fighting on the planet for pure survival (say, against a Tyranid swarm), then you really don't want to be indiscriminantly bombarding the planet you're trying to win.

Except you don't have to bombard indiscriminately to kill a handful of targets. A single nuke or lance barrage while they're manouvering between cities and it's problem solved-a few miles of already unused land off the map isn't a bad price to pay for destroying multiple, near irreplaceable god machines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:And TrollPie statement involves another question: How would Tau deal with ~50 Titans in the same time?
They only faced max 4 in a battle so far ( not sure about numbers in Damocles but 4 were on Taros ).

And by the Emperor please don't post " they would use 50 gazillion Railguns there" answer...

They wouldn't deal with them at the same time. Seperate them, drain their resources, outmanouvre them and hit them when they can't respond are the easiest ways of dealing with big targets.

Hm, true. But Titans are very hard to separate when they operate in these numbers. And they always have Guard and Mechanicus support.
Tau just luck recourse to deal with that kind of battle force.

Without seperating it would take decades to sieze a planet. Millions of square miles of land can't be taken in a Guardsman's lifespan by a single blob.

TrollPie wrote:
Combat potential is simply the end result of well thought out logistics. The logistics involved in transporting 50 massive Titans to every single population centre on an entire planet-as in, hundreds of millions of square miles of land-would make your head explode.

This is 40k where GW draws the maps. Have you seen them? 3-4 cities are all that is on some GW drawings...
Plus, the munitorum keeps billions of guard regiments supplied, the mechnicum surely has no trouble to keep a few machines walking.

1hadhq wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
Combat potential is simply the end result of well thought out logistics. The logistics involved in transporting 50 massive Titans to every single population centre on an entire planet-as in, hundreds of millions of square miles of land-would make your head explode.

This is 40k where GW draws the maps. Have you seen them? 3-4 cities are all that is on some GW drawings...
Plus, the munitorum keeps billions of guard regiments supplied, the mechnicum surely has no trouble to keep a few machines walking.

They can create the supplies, but transporting them through the unreliable Warp across light-years of space with no idea when they'll arrive or even if they will is yet another logistical nightmare.

TrollPie wrote:

Arturius wrote:

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles. So I imagine swarming the carapace with jump troops armed with every Fusion Blaster in the Tau Empire could take a Titan down. It would also look ridiculous.

If you don't have any space resistance, and if you don't mind reducing the planet to a smouldering heap, and if you have nothing else to do with three kilometers of death on a plasma engine, then yeah, go nuts, but it doesn't favor any one faction over the others.

-Loki- said a similair thing earlier on. Here:

TrollPie wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles.

Well, realistically, you don't want to be doing that either. Unless you're fighting on the planet for pure survival (say, against a Tyranid swarm), then you really don't want to be indiscriminantly bombarding the planet you're trying to win.

Except you don't have to bombard indiscriminately to kill a handful of targets. A single nuke or lance barrage while they're manouvering between cities and it's problem solved-a few miles of already unused land off the map isn't a bad price to pay for destroying multiple, near irreplaceable god machines.

First off, you pretty much do. Titans are really, really big, sure, but you're still talking about killing a fly on the wall by lobbing tennis balls from across a gymnasium. To actually destroy a Titan, you're going to need to throw a whole lot of firepower trying to hit one little dot on the planet's surface.

Second, again, this isn't a strategy that favors the Tau over the Imperium. It still requires complete space superiority in space, so it could just as easily be the Imperium's way of wiping out the Tau airfields that could be used to attack the Titans.

TrollPie wrote:
They can create the supplies, but transporting them through the unreliable Warp across light-years of space with no idea when they'll arrive or even if they will is yet another logistical nightmare.

not really.

Daily work of the uncounted souls keeping the military running.
In game - you never run out of supplies.
In fluff, supplies are never low if contact to the suppliers is secured. Only isolated units had problems and as I ve pointed out with the krieg artillery, years of fighting are not depleting the units of ressources as bad as you make it sound.

Arturius wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Arturius wrote:

TrollPie wrote:If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles. So I imagine swarming the carapace with jump troops armed with every Fusion Blaster in the Tau Empire could take a Titan down. It would also look ridiculous.

If you don't have any space resistance, and if you don't mind reducing the planet to a smouldering heap, and if you have nothing else to do with three kilometers of death on a plasma engine, then yeah, go nuts, but it doesn't favor any one faction over the others.

-Loki- said a similair thing earlier on. Here:

TrollPie wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
If this was a real life battle, the logical thing to do would be to focus all effort into gaining superiority in space then blasting the Titans from orbit. But that wouldn't make for an epic ground battle, and 40k is all about epic ground battles.

Well, realistically, you don't want to be doing that either. Unless you're fighting on the planet for pure survival (say, against a Tyranid swarm), then you really don't want to be indiscriminantly bombarding the planet you're trying to win.

Except you don't have to bombard indiscriminately to kill a handful of targets. A single nuke or lance barrage while they're manouvering between cities and it's problem solved-a few miles of already unused land off the map isn't a bad price to pay for destroying multiple, near irreplaceable god machines.

First off, you pretty much do. Titans are really, really big, sure, but you're still talking about killing a fly on the wall by lobbing tennis balls from across a gymnasium. To actually destroy a Titan, you're going to need to throw a whole lot of firepower trying to hit one little dot on the planet's surface.

Second, again, this isn't a strategy that favors the Tau over the Imperium. It still requires complete space superiority in space, so it could just as easily be the Imperium's way of wiping out the Tau airfields that could be used to attack the Titans.

A modern supercomputer can already use mathematics to predict exactly where an object sent in to space will travel to. A Nuke or a weapon of similair power, guided by something that makes them look like a toaster in comparison will have no trouble hitting the right place at the right time-and even if it misses by a mile or two the target is still as good as dead, or at least badly damaged enough to become a drain on resources. Send in a second for good measure and it's job done.

This approach does give the Tau one crucial advantage- the Imperium is wasting resources putting things on the ground. And battle for a planet will be, realistically, decided in space-whoever controls it has the power to wipe out any target he likes at the push of a button while the enemy will be unable to respond with suitable firepower. But, obviously, 40k is about ground battles and mighty heroes, so the obvious strategies will be ignored in favour of the one that creates the most epic clash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:
In fluff, supplies are never low if contact to the suppliers is secured. Only isolated units had problems and as I ve pointed out with the krieg artillery, years of fighting are not depleting the units of ressources as bad as you make it sound.

That's my point-contact to the suppliers is never secured thanks to the Imperium's Warp reliance.
The Krieg artillery is only described vaguely so we have no idea of how constant and heavy the bombardment was. The Kriegians also had total control of the planet and so had a constant supply of resources.

TrollPie wrote:A modern supercomputer can already use mathematics to predict exactly where an object sent in to space will travel to. A Nuke or a weapon of similair power, guided by something that makes them look like a toaster in comparison will have no trouble hitting the right place at the right time-and even if it misses by a mile or two the target is still as good as dead, or at least badly damaged enough to become a drain on resources. Send in a second for good measure and it's job done.

If it was that easy, BFG ships wouldn't miss nearly as often as they do.

In any case, orbital strikes aren't that amazing as Titan-killers. After going through the entire atmosphere, they're given Strength scores between 8 and 10, with a good bit of time between firing. They're more than Ordinance 1, but even so, they're going to have a hard time keeping up a good enough rate of fire to take down the Titan's void shields faster than they're recharging, never mind actually killing one.

Tau can launch icefire missiles fairly accurately. I believe they work like battlesuits. (Actually well are at it, do battlesuits deepstrike form orbit?)

TrollPie wrote:

That's my point-contact to the suppliers is never secured thanks to the Imperium's Warp reliance.
The Krieg artillery is only described vaguely so we have no idea of how constant and heavy the bombardment was. The Kriegians also had total control of the planet and so had a constant supply of resources.

How about an example of units runninng low on fuel / ammo?
See, if you find one, its an event when the unit is cut off.
Thus its not the standard.
Krieg was sent as a backup to secure compliance and had most likely no support from the planet.
The rebels were shelled until they were dust. And then some more.
As funny as it is, your point of "!no supplies constantly!" when I point at the masses who produce and transport all the neccessary material followed up by "!but the had control over the planet and thus constant supplies!" reveals the flaw in your argument.
Can't have it both ways.

TrollPie wrote:
A modern supercomputer can already use mathematics to predict exactly where an object sent in to space will travel to.

This also assumes that the Tau have such orbital superiority that they can maintain orbit for long enough to hit a small moving target.

even if it misses by a mile or two the target is still as good as dead, or at least badly damaged enough to become a drain on resources.

Sadly, in 40K this does not appear to be the case. Unless its planet killing weaponry, which I don't think the Tau are said to have and almost certainly won't use. There doesn't really seem to be many weapons capable of doing such a large amount of damage over such a large area.

This approach does give the Tau one crucial advantage- the Imperium is wasting resources putting things on the ground.

As you pointed out, this is 40K and so is not an advantage since the Tau will be doing the exact same thing. Otherwise the Titans wouldn't even be deployed.

Again, this is not a question whether tau kill titans, its a question of how. And the how question is too vague to be properly answered.

If the tau have air-superiority (i.e. control of space) then they can probably use spaced-based weaponry to deal with it.

If the tau control the ground, they can probably use mass fire to deal with it

If the tau are being fiesty, they can try rigging up a weapon (though this would assume a stalemate or lull in the fighting)

If they have the ability, they could also attempt sabotage. All of these methods can work, given other factors.

Perhaps the better question to ask is: how successful are tau against a titan's retinue/the imperial navy? How often are they in a position to use any of these tactics?

1hadhq wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

That's my point-contact to the suppliers is never secured thanks to the Imperium's Warp reliance.
The Krieg artillery is only described vaguely so we have no idea of how constant and heavy the bombardment was. The Kriegians also had total control of the planet and so had a constant supply of resources.

How about an example of units runninng low on fuel / ammo?
See, if you find one, its an event when the unit is cut off.
Thus its not the standard.
Krieg was sent as a backup to secure compliance and had most likely no support from the planet.
The rebels were shelled until they were dust. And then some more.
As funny as it is, your point of "!no supplies constantly!" when I point at the masses who produce and transport all the neccessary material followed up by "!but the had control over the planet and thus constant supplies!" reveals the flaw in your argument.
Can't have it both ways.

Kreig is a seige based army, an army litterily bred for attrition warfare. Kreig armys also take years to deploy and that's at an uncontested landing zone, ia4(?) I belive. Krieg armys would be deployed with a surplus of suplys from the getgo due to the nature of their doctorin, fething terrible example of a "logistics arn't a problem for the imperium."

Against the Navy, the Tau are at a bit of a disadvantage. Ship for ship, class to class, hull to hull, the Imperium has the edge in Naval warfare. Tau vessels tend cheaper, which means most BFG matches will have more Tau ships than Imperial, but that's a matter of deployment and application, rather than total ships. The Tau armada is a tiny fraction of the ships in the Imperial Navy, but also worrying about a tiny fraction of the space.

Again, though, the usual issue is that it's not as easy as some people make it seem to get the sort of total space superiority you'd need to just bombard the planet's surface at will. More often, at least in the fiction, a fleet will move to drop off their invasion force, and then move out to avoid being blown out of the sky, or to drop another invasion force somewhere else, or to deal with the other guy's navy somewhere else.

Who is to say you need to have space superiority to deliver a MAC round or two on a planetside target and bug out? I'm sure the tau fleet (if the ground situation was bad enough.) Would break off a taskforce to distract&detain while a speciaised ship delived its rounds down range. Concerning accuracy, the Tau have markerlights for their rifles, why wouldn't they have a combat air controler(space in this example)with equipment to target interatmosphere targets?

Newabortion wrote:Who is to say you need to have space superiority to deliver a MAC round or two on a planetside target and bug out? I'm sure the tau fleet (if the ground situation was bad enough.) Would break off a taskforce to distract&detain while a speciaised ship delived its rounds down range. Concerning accuracy, the Tau have markerlights for their rifles, why wouldn't they have a combat air controler(space in this example)with equipment to target interatmosphere targets?

I think you need to demonstrate something that suggests the Tau do have better planetary bombardment capabilities than anybody else, rather than the reverse. As is, literally every faction in the 40K galaxy has the ability to shoot at planets from low orbit. Saying the Tau would use it on Imperial forces is no more of an argument than the opposite.

Unless I missed something I wasn't saying they do have better planetary bombardments, from what I read it seems the arguement was if it could be done. I was just sugesting that they would not need complete space supremacy to deliver rounds down range at an inner atmosphere target. The more I look at past posts I guess I really am missing your point? I'm not trying to be a dick or sarcastic but could you elaborate?

Alright... basically? People have been saying that the answer to "how would Tau deal with a titan legion" is "orbital bombardment."

My response is that, in WH40K, anyone can deal with anything via orbital bombardment. It's a non-answer. If they're in a position to sit in orbit and bombard the hell out of a planet, it doesn't matter which faction you're talking about or what the target is. 40K spaceships carry apocalyptic levels of firepower as a rule. It makes these sorts of questions meaningless, because any "how would faction X deal with situation Y" could be answered with "mass orbital bombardment."

However, what I'm getting from the books and the games suggests that quick, single shots from orbital bombardment isn't even very good for taking out titan-level threats. It can be a useful assist for your ground forces, but even if you can hit anything from orbit (and there's always a pretty good chance of scatter), the rules for an orbital bombardment hit seem hugely unlikely to take out even a warhound-scale titan.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Newabortion wrote:Which brings us back full circle to the fact they would be forced to engage in gorilla tactics, attack the suporting units and the machine will sucome to war of attrition,

Guerilla warfare only works when the civilian population will support and feed you. If the civilian population is Tau, they will be exterminated by the Imperium and cannot offer support. If the civilian population are is Human, there's a good chance they support the mighty God-Emperor of Mankind over the Great Good of the Tau. Even if they do support the Tau, the Imperium will come down hard on them. Without support from local population, the Tau will not be able to find food and such. Not to mention that that would require the Imperium to not defend its supply lines, and leave any command centres of the Tau vulnerable to being wiped out.

howcan it fire without ammo? "well then it'll just stomp around,duh!" well then it will run out of fuel.

As said, many of its weaponsd raw power from the reactor. Which, by the way, will not run out of fuel (or at least, not any time soon).

Randomonioum wrote: Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing.

I would assume that they return for maintanence (if they've been in battle, or simply to check) and also to refill any solid ammunition. I'm not sure if the crew need sleep, or how much they would need if they do.

Also, according to an old White Dwarf magazine Imperator Titans are powered by a "minature sun" and are capable of "dealing death to whole armies at a time". I love the hyperbole of Games Workshop. Interestingly, it also says that Emperor Titans are only 25 to 40 metres tall.

Of course, megabolters and the like will have ammo reserves that can be depleted. But if the ammo is depleted, think how much damage its already done. At that point, killing the titan is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory.

Which aren't their most powerful weapons, unfortunately for the Tau.

They aren't "25 to 40 meters tall"

40m is the approximate height of a reaver.

Warhound 25

Reaver 40

Warlord 60

Imperator too much variance to peg a number. The lowest I have heard (before your post) was 85, the highest I have heard (seems improbable) is 150m.

Either way, NOT 25m tall.

BTW, has anyone else noticed how GW has completely forgotten that Warmongers exist? And knights (9m)?


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Arturius wrote:Alright... basically? People have been saying that the answer to "how would Tau deal with a titan legion" is "orbital bombardment."

My response is that, in WH40K, anyone can deal with anything via orbital bombardment. It's a non-answer. If they're in a position to sit in orbit and bombard the hell out of a planet, it doesn't matter which faction you're talking about or what the target is. 40K spaceships carry apocalyptic levels of firepower as a rule. It makes these sorts of questions meaningless, because any "how would faction X deal with situation Y" could be answered with "mass orbital bombardment."

However, what I'm getting from the books and the games suggests that quick, single shots from orbital bombardment isn't even very good for taking out titan-level threats. It can be a useful assist for your ground forces, but even if you can hit anything from orbit (and there's always a pretty good chance of scatter), the rules for an orbital bombardment hit seem hugely unlikely to take out even a warhound-scale titan.

Heavy weapons kill titans. Fact. Railguns are heavy weapons /convo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Newabortion wrote:Who is to say you need to have space superiority to deliver a MAC round or two on a planetside target and bug out? I'm sure the tau fleet (if the ground situation was bad enough.) Would break off a taskforce to distract&detain while a speciaised ship delived its rounds down range. Concerning accuracy, the Tau have markerlights for their rifles, why wouldn't they have a combat air controler(space in this example)with equipment to target intratmospheric targets?

MAC? THIS ISN'T HALO! IT IS A RAILGUN AND HAS LITTLE/NO SIMILARITIES TO A MASS DRIVER. DO YO WANT THIs CONVO TO START AGAIN?

Otherwise I agree with your post


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nomotog wrote:Tau can launch icefire missiles fairly accurately. I believe they work like battlesuits. (Actually well are at it, do battlesuits deepstrike form orbit?)

They deepstrike from mantas/orcas. They may also go from low orbit, but I haven't seen a referrence yet.


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Arturius wrote:

TrollPie wrote:A modern supercomputer can already use mathematics to predict exactly where an object sent in to space will travel to. A Nuke or a weapon of similair power, guided by something that makes them look like a toaster in comparison will have no trouble hitting the right place at the right time-and even if it misses by a mile or two the target is still as good as dead, or at least badly damaged enough to become a drain on resources. Send in a second for good measure and it's job done.

If it was that easy, BFG ships wouldn't miss nearly as often as they do.

In any case, orbital strikes aren't that amazing as Titan-killers. After going through the entire atmosphere, they're given Strength scores between 8 and 10, with a good bit of time between firing. They're more than Ordinance 1, but even so, they're going to have a hard time keeping up a good enough rate of fire to take down the Titan's void shields faster than they're recharging, never mind actually killing one.

Maybe on the TT, but in fluff they would be obliterated. In Nemesis, it mentioned the Space Marine ship's conventional, non-planet killer weaponry being able to flatten continents.

Spaceship weaponry aiming at moving targets smaller than about a kilometer is damnably difficult, by the rules and by the fluff. Of course, titan movement really doesn't qualify as 'moving' by the space-level distinctions... but it barely qualifies as 'target,' either. Long-range weaponry is designed for ship-to-ship actions, not hitting particular points on a planet's surface.

Yes, heavy weaponry will bring down a titan, but it needs to be focused and continuous. You need to hit a titan with enough firepower to bring its shields down before you can even start to smash the structure, and you need to keep making direct hits, constantly, or the shields power back up and you're right back where you started.

Tau ships would have a better chance to hit a moveing target on a planet because unlike logic would dictate, they put there rail guns in turret battery. rather then fixed main guns. So they can rotate all around with out turning the ship and they fire a lot of shots.

Arturius wrote:Spaceship weaponry aiming at moving targets smaller than about a kilometer is damnably difficult, by the rules and by the fluff. Of course, titan movement really doesn't qualify as 'moving' by the space-level distinctions... but it barely qualifies as 'target,' either. Long-range weaponry is designed for ship-to-ship actions, not hitting particular points on a planet's surface.

Yes, heavy weaponry will bring down a titan, but it needs to be focused and continuous. You need to hit a titan with enough firepower to bring its shields down before you can even start to smash the structure, and you need to keep making direct hits, constantly, or the shields power back up and you're right back where you started.

The Titans would be fairly easy to lock on to...and energy signature that big...


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nomotog wrote:Tau ships would have a better chance to hit a moveing target on a planet because unlike logic would dictate, they put there rail guns in turret battery. rather then fixed main guns. So they can rotate all around with out turning the ship and they fire a lot of shots.

Railguns are main guns, and count as lance, but they can swivel, so they are better than lances.

im2randomghgh wrote:BTW, has anyone else noticed how GW has completely forgotten that Warmongers exist? And knights (9m)?

Since GW is doing the main range of 40k and no Specialist games anymore, it's small wonder. They barely get the chance to write about Titans, so the variants like Warmongers, while probably not forgotten, are left aside.

As to Knights, I wouldn't be surprised if GW dropped them from the fluff, but for now they're just not mentioning them. I'd be super happy if Forgeworld took the idea into Imperial Armour though.

A smart tau commander would sabotage a titan, as it is the cheapest way to kill that asset. Stealth suits, I'd think, should be able to do it.

Another smart commander would fire rail batteries from many miles away, at ballistic trajectories, to overload the shields and hopefully penetrate the titan.

A tau commander could also fight a massive ground campaign against the titans retinue, allowing all artillery to perform massive bombardment against the titan.

And a tau ship firing a rail volley from space, or even just dropping something big from space onto the titan should work. yes, if it's moving, it'll be tough, but if the bombardment hits surrounding area, then you hit the titans retinue, and it is easier to destroy as it is not as guarded.

-Loki- wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:BTW, has anyone else noticed how GW has completely forgotten that Warmongers exist? And knights (9m)?

Since GW is doing the main range of 40k and no Specialist games anymore, it's small wonder. They barely get the chance to write about Titans, so the variants like Warmongers, while probably not forgotten, are left aside.

As to Knights, I wouldn't be surprised if GW dropped them from the fluff, but for now they're just not mentioning them. I'd be super happy if Forgeworld took the idea into Imperial Armour though.

IKR? Knights would be sick. They are small enough that they could even be implemented into non-apoc games of around 2000 pts.

And Warmongers are my favourite titans. Just saying.

im2randomghgh wrote:
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nomotog wrote:Tau ships would have a better chance to hit a moveing target on a planet because unlike logic would dictate, they put there rail guns in turret battery. rather then fixed main guns. So they can rotate all around with out turning the ship and they fire a lot of shots.

Railguns are main guns, and count as lance, but they can swivel, so they are better than lances.

No, railguns are Weapons Batteries. Ion cannons are Lances.


Imperial ships have both fixed guns and turrets as their ship weapons batteries. its just that the size of the ship usually limits their aiming in directions other then the sides. Lances are almost always turret mounted.

1hadhq wrote:
Centuries?
A city is levelled in minutes.
Imperial positions may take some time, because their fortified but still centuries is far off.
A lonely group of regiments from krieg bombed a renegade hive into oblivion and beyond in 10 years,( one who died in 8 and 2 years were spent to make sure...)
Titans simply outrange a lot of things, so they can take their time and clear the path before the masses of skitarii swarm in.

Ok, so this rules out Static defence against Titans.

Randomonioum wrote:

Newabortion wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
The machine is the impersonification of the omnissiah.
The omnissiah provides, so it can never run out of ammo nor fuel.

BTW, some weapons may use ammo, but some don't. Same with fuel. Giant flamers may use fuel, but the engine isn't running on gas...

Well TBH I don't/didn't know they are omnipresent infinite resource machines of uberdeath/giveupnow, Sorry for my ignorance.

A lot of the titans weapons draw power from the reactor. And they arent using promethium to power a titan, they have their own on board reactor. Which TECHNICALLY should allow them to run effectively forever, but I dont know about coolant restraints and the like. Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing. Of course, megabolters and the like will have ammo reserves that can be depleted. But if the ammo is depleted, think how much damage its already done. At that point, killing the titan is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory.

Ok, at the polor opposite which is guerrilla warfare has been smacked down as a possible solution.

Grey Templar wrote:the general method of Titan operations is fairly fluid.


Main Battle Titans like Reavers and Warlords will form the main line and will pound enemy positions from dozens of kilometers away, warlords can even engage from over the horizon with their ballistic weaponry like Vortex Missiles.

Warhounds form the advance force. They are grouped in pairs that are given an enormous amount of personal libery in their prosection of the enemy. they never remain still for long and their rapidly moving forms will be difficult for Tau stealth teams to sabotage by climbing on, much less track down in the first place.


Warhounds are small enough to take advantage of actual cover, 45 feet high at rest. Buildings and Trees can provide large amounts of concelment.

Ok, so now any possibility of any kind of stand up fight has now been debunked as unwinable, so if the tau can't defeat the titan on the ground they must resort to attacking with something that cant be retalilated against, or if it can then you must make your attack count. So lets bomb the fether from space.

Arturius wrote:Alright... basically? People have been saying that the answer to "how would Tau deal with a titan legion" is "orbital bombardment."

My response is that, in WH40K, anyone can deal with anything via orbital bombardment. It's a non-answer. If they're in a position to sit in orbit and bombard the hell out of a planet, it doesn't matter which faction you're talking about or what the target is. 40K spaceships carry apocalyptic levels of firepower as a rule. It makes these sorts of questions meaningless, because any "how would faction X deal with situation Y" could be answered with "mass orbital bombardment."

However, what I'm getting from the books and the games suggests that quick, single shots from orbital bombardment isn't even very good for taking out titan-level threats. It can be a useful assist for your ground forces, but even if you can hit anything from orbit (and there's always a pretty good chance of scatter), the rules for an orbital bombardment hit seem hugely unlikely to take out even a warhound-scale titan.

I thank you explaining, I finally got what you when while I was takeing a shower. Basicly if it was so easy to orbital bombard someone/something it would be done all the time.
I have to disagree with you, you can't always deal with a tactial problem via barbardments, why the feck would you destroy the land your trying to aquire, so by the arguement that "It can't be that easy/simple because if it was everyone would be doing it

It makes these sorts of questions meaningless, because any "how would faction X deal with situation Y" could be answered with "mass orbital bombardment."

all races could and do have the ability to bombard or presision bombard but they don't do it because it pretty much destroys the land or objective you are trying to gain. They don't do it because it wouldn't acomplish their objective for them and would be horrible over kill.

Now the objective of the Tau trying to take down a Machine that "Can't be hurt due to shields, run out of ammo, run out of gas, and can FIRE WEAPONS FROM ACROSS THE HORIZON WTF. I would say the Tau would find it pretty reasonable to employ a bombardment from space to kill it.

Newabortion wrote:
Kreig is a seige based army, an army litterily bred for attrition warfare. Kreig armys also take years to deploy and that's at an uncontested landing zone, ia4(?) I belive. Krieg armys would be deployed with a surplus of suplys from the getgo due to the nature of their doctorin, fething terrible example of a "logistics arn't a problem for the imperium."

1)
Krieg not kreig
2)
imperial armor does not invalidate 40k codices. Its the other way round.
nothing suggests armies take years to deploy after arrival.
3)
The setting prefers the combatants in the spotlight, but this does not mean the other guys do nothing.
If logistics wouldn't work usually, armies would be lost on such scale that no recrutement level could counter the losses.
Its a challenge to keep them all fed and armed, but its not impossible.
4)
A clever commander would handle a legio like the maginot line. Instead of opposing it, keep it distracted.
To give up a world and leave would be fluffy for Tau if you count their 4th ed background.
The issue here is too many want to "win" by killing the machines. Something that makes them a real target.
But there are different ways to victory and the thread does not provide a location or a description of the opponents.
5)
IoM,Chaos, Eldar, orks and nids have their own "titans", necron are unknown yet and Tau got a different theme.
Maybe the Tau are designed to evade that fight?

[quote=im2randomghghBTW, has anyone else noticed how GW has completely forgotten that Warmongers exist?

im2randomghgh wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Newabortion wrote:Which brings us back full circle to the fact they would be forced to engage in gorilla tactics, attack the suporting units and the machine will sucome to war of attrition,

Guerilla warfare only works when the civilian population will support and feed you. If the civilian population is Tau, they will be exterminated by the Imperium and cannot offer support. If the civilian population are is Human, there's a good chance they support the mighty God-Emperor of Mankind over the Great Good of the Tau. Even if they do support the Tau, the Imperium will come down hard on them. Without support from local population, the Tau will not be able to find food and such. Not to mention that that would require the Imperium to not defend its supply lines, and leave any command centres of the Tau vulnerable to being wiped out.

howcan it fire without ammo? "well then it'll just stomp around,duh!" well then it will run out of fuel.

As said, many of its weaponsd raw power from the reactor. Which, by the way, will not run out of fuel (or at least, not any time soon).

Randomonioum wrote: Its been said that they have to return to 'refuel', or some such, I forget the actual phrasing.

I would assume that they return for maintanence (if they've been in battle, or simply to check) and also to refill any solid ammunition. I'm not sure if the crew need sleep, or how much they would need if they do.

Also, according to an old White Dwarf magazine Imperator Titans are powered by a "minature sun" and are capable of "dealing death to whole armies at a time". I love the hyperbole of Games Workshop. Interestingly, it also says that Emperor Titans are only 25 to 40 metres tall.

Of course, megabolters and the like will have ammo reserves that can be depleted. But if the ammo is depleted, think how much damage its already done. At that point, killing the titan is almost certainly a pyrrhic victory.

Which aren't their most powerful weapons, unfortunately for the Tau.

They aren't "25 to 40 meters tall"

40m is the approximate height of a reaver.

Warhound 25

Reaver 40

Warlord 60

Imperator too much variance to peg a number. The lowest I have heard (before your post) was 85, the highest I have heard (seems improbable) is 150m.

Either way, NOT 25m tall.

Your sizes are off. From the apoc datasheets we can easily calculate that the Warhound is at max 15 metres, the Reaver around 25, the Warlord around 35 and the Emperor at max 55 metres ( including the cathedral on it's back ).

Those datasheets aren't accurate.

im2randomghgh wrote:
They aren't "25 to 40 meters tall"

40m is the approximate height of a reaver.

Warhound 25

Reaver 40

Warlord 60

Imperator too much variance to peg a number. The lowest I have heard (before your post) was 85, the highest I have heard (seems improbable) is 150m.

Either way, NOT 25m tall.

"Warhound model, 250mm tall, would stand around 15 meters (45 feet) in real life."
Reaver = 22.3m ( Imperial Armory, Reaver Titan Specifications )
"A Warlord Titan is approximately 33m (100ft) tall according to the scale diagram in the Apocalypse Rulebook"
"Other accounts have stated it to be in the region of 200 meters (656 feet)" - this is from BL novel. And we all know that in a mtters of fluff Codex and Rulebooks > BL Novels.
"According to the scale diagram from the Imperator's Apocalypse datasheet, Imperator Titan stands approximately 39" tall on tabletop, equivalent to 55.5 meters (166ft) in real life."
"Dies Irae, the famous Chaos Imperator Titan that laid siege to the Imperial Palace, was stated as being 43m (130ft) tall"

You need to check your numbers again...

The Reaver is roughly 50% larger than the warhound,the Warlord is 50% larger than the raever and the Emperor is roughly twice as large as the Warlord.

Deadshot wrote:Those datasheets aren't accurate.

The datasheets are supported by the numbers we have in IA V to IA VII.

Btw, Coa, i think you made a mistake with the quoting

KingDeath wrote:
Btw, Coa, i think you made a mistake with the quoting

Were?

Previous page. It wasn't me but im2randomghgh who stated the somewhat oversized heights for imperial titans, i merely replied to it

KingDeath wrote:Previous page. It wasn't me but im2randomghgh who stated the somewhat oversized heights for imperial titans, i merely replied to it

I can't believe it , fixed for you.

Tau use Mantas to destroy the big stuff, especially since they'll most likely have air superioty. As far as the data sheet is concerned for the Manta you don't want it's guns on you...

In BFG, one of the unique things about the Tau ships is drone-guided torpedos. Would torpedos, fired from space, be able to reach ground forces? That might be one answer; ships wouldn't necessarily need total space/air superiority if the projectile is fire and forget and finds its own target.

Just a thought.

1hadhq wrote:

Newabortion wrote:
Kreig is a seige based army, an army litterily bred for attrition warfare. Kreig armys also take years to deploy and that's at an uncontested landing zone, ia4(?) I belive. Krieg armys would be deployed with a surplus of suplys from the getgo due to the nature of their doctorin, fething terrible example of a "logistics arn't a problem for the imperium."

1)
Krieg not kreig
2)
imperial armor does not invalidate 40k codices. Its the other way round.
nothing suggests armies take years to deploy after arrival.
3)
The setting prefers the combatants in the spotlight, but this does not mean the other guys do nothing.
If logistics wouldn't work usually, armies would be lost on such scale that no recrutement level could counter the losses.
Its a challenge to keep them all fed and armed, but its not impossible.
4)
A clever commander would handle a legio like the maginot line. Instead of opposing it, keep it distracted.
To give up a world and leave would be fluffy for Tau if you count their 4th ed background.
The issue here is too many want to "win" by killing the machines. Something that makes them a real target.
But there are different ways to victory and the thread does not provide a location or a description of the opponents.
5)
IoM,Chaos, Eldar, orks and nids have their own "titans", necron are unknown yet and Tau got a different theme.
Maybe the Tau are designed to evade that fight?

GW Gave tau mantas with the specific goal of giving them a non-walker titan equivalent. Flying Reavers for the win!


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Brother Coa wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
They aren't "25 to 40 meters tall"

40m is the approximate height of a reaver.

Warhound 25

Reaver 40

Warlord 60

Imperator too much variance to peg a number. The lowest I have heard (before your post) was 85, the highest I have heard (seems improbable) is 150m.

Either way, NOT 25m tall.

"Warhound model, 250mm tall, would stand around 15 meters (45 feet) in real life."
Reaver = 22.3m ( Imperial Armory, Reaver Titan Specifications )
"A Warlord Titan is approximately 33m (100ft) tall according to the scale diagram in the Apocalypse Rulebook"
"Other accounts have stated it to be in the region of 200 meters (656 feet)" - this is from BL novel. And we all know that in a mtters of fluff Codex and Rulebooks > BL Novels.
"According to the scale diagram from the Imperator's Apocalypse datasheet, Imperator Titan stands approximately 39" tall on tabletop, equivalent to 55.5 meters (166ft) in real life."
"Dies Irae, the famous Chaos Imperator Titan that laid siege to the Imperial Palace, was stated as being 43m (130ft) tall"

You need to check your numbers again...

I respect your opinions, but as with all matters of GW fluff, there is too much contradiction to peg a number definitely.

I just found out that Titans are actually pretty easy to take down. The Castigator (said to be larger than an Imperator) was destroyed by a single Grey Knight Justicar (source: Dark Adeptus). Damn you Ben Counter!

TrollPie wrote:I just found out that Titans are actually pretty easy to take down. The Castigator (said to be larger than an Imperator) was destroyed by a single Grey Knight Justicar (source: Dark Adeptus). Damn you Ben Counter!

Once you are on the inside they really aren't anywhere near as hard to take down.

But a castigator would be nearly impossible to board, the only exception being mary sue armed with plot armour.

im2randomghgh wrote:

TrollPie wrote:I just found out that Titans are actually pretty easy to take down. The Castigator (said to be larger than an Imperator) was destroyed by a single Grey Knight Justicar (source: Dark Adeptus). Damn you Ben Counter!

Once you are on the inside they really aren't anywhere near as hard to take down.

But a castigator would be nearly impossible to board, the only exception being mary sue armed with plot armour.

Alaric is hardly a mary sue...

Taking down an apparent superior class of Titan single handed is pretty mary-sue esque.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

TrollPie wrote:I just found out that Titans are actually pretty easy to take down. The Castigator (said to be larger than an Imperator) was destroyed by a single Grey Knight Justicar (source: Dark Adeptus). Damn you Ben Counter!

Once you are on the inside they really aren't anywhere near as hard to take down.

But a castigator would be nearly impossible to board, the only exception being mary sue armed with plot armour.

Alaric is hardly a mary sue...

Plus he kind of pwn'd a daemon world alone.

And pwn'd a daemon prince.

And may have become an inquisitor at the end of the series.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:Taking down an apparent superior class of Titan single handed is pretty mary-sue esque.

AND it was an STC, AND it was augmented by Chaos

He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

TrollPie wrote:I just found out that Titans are actually pretty easy to take down. The Castigator (said to be larger than an Imperator) was destroyed by a single Grey Knight Justicar (source: Dark Adeptus). Damn you Ben Counter!

Do you know why Grey Knights are my son?
They call orbital bombardment on themselves and survive, not to mention going trough the warp and wreaking havoc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:
I respect your opinions, but as with all matters of GW fluff, there is too much contradiction to peg a number definitely.

Likewise, this is the best I could find in Codex, Rulebooks and Imperial Armories...
Titans are actually much smaller then we imagine them. But then again, Tiger Tank was pretty large to ordinary solders in WW2...

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

the Titan wasn't really a big deal. It was posessed by a daemon. He killed it, and the STC was destroyed as a result. not a huge stretch.

and he basically incited a huge fight over the world and it self-destructed.

Grey Templar wrote:the Titan wasn't really a big deal. It was posessed by a daemon. He killed it, and the STC was destroyed as a result. not a huge stretch.

and he basically incited a huge fight over the world and it self-destructed.

Not a big deal? It has been said that an Imperator is big enough to defend a world, and this titan was supposedly worth quite a few Imperators, PLUS it was bolster by a powerful daemon, PLUS it had a gun that shot daemons.

MASSIVE STRETCH.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

There weren't that many daemon on the daemon world come to think of it...
All the mortals were fighting anyone and everyone but the daemons seemed to be absent entirely...

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

There weren't that many daemon on the daemon world come to think of it...
All the mortals were fighting anyone and everyone but the daemons seemed to be absent entirely...

Pay closer attention. 2/3 of the population was JUST daemons.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

There weren't that many daemon on the daemon world come to think of it...
All the mortals were fighting anyone and everyone but the daemons seemed to be absent entirely...

Pay closer attention. 2/3 of the population was JUST daemons.

Really? It's been a while but i was partially sure it was mostly mortals... ah well maybe they were fighting each other as well then?

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

There weren't that many daemon on the daemon world come to think of it...
All the mortals were fighting anyone and everyone but the daemons seemed to be absent entirely...

Pay closer attention. 2/3 of the population was JUST daemons.

Really? It's been a while but i was partially sure it was mostly mortals... ah well maybe they were fighting each other as well then?

I doubt the Daemons would fight each other seeing as they're directly controlled by Khorne.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:He didn't exactly kill it in the traditional way.
Not sure what you mean by pwning a daemon world and a daemon prince.

In the Omnibus, the first story was daemon-prince pwnage

the second was wtfhuge titan pwnage

The third was daemon world pwnage.

He didn't kill the Daemon Prince in the first on.
I'll admit he did for the titan in the second one but he didn't exactly kill it in the traditional method.
The third one isn't exactly hard considering the state of affairs of the planet he was on.

Well he DID banish the DP, and politics isn't enough to make a single Astartes own a DAEMON WORLD.

@Brother Coa, doesn't matter that they're GK, Custodes are even better than GK, but you don't see them attacking entire daemon worlds.

Clearly politics was enough. The entire world was about to descend into anarchy Alaric just made sure there would be no winners...

The fact that he survived it is what makes no sense. If you no longer had to obey the commands of the planetary ruler who ordered you not to kill one of your greatest, most prestigious enemies, you would attack. x billions of bloodletters. And probably a Bloodthirster or two.

There weren't that many daemon on the daemon world come to think of it...
All the mortals were fighting anyone and everyone but the daemons seemed to be absent entirely...

Pay closer attention. 2/3 of the population was JUST daemons.

Really? It's been a while but i was partially sure it was mostly mortals... ah well maybe they were fighting each other as well then?

I doubt the Daemons would fight each other seeing as they're directly controlled by Khorne.

Not directly but even if they were what does he care? Killing 1 GK is nothing compared to the amount of other people he could far more easily kill.

Dakka really needs to fix the way it manages quoting other posts.

Harriticus wrote:Dakka really needs to fix the way it manages quoting other posts.

Or we stop quoting other quotes so much...
Quote pyramids look awesome after a while anyway...

im2randomghgh wrote:I doubt the Daemons would fight each other seeing as they're directly controlled by Khorne.

Endless pointless internecine slaughter is pretty much what the Daemons of Khorne do, though, when they're not bound by a sorcerer or teaming up to kill someone else instead. A bit like orks in that respect.

Arturius wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I doubt the Daemons would fight each other seeing as they're directly controlled by Khorne.

Endless pointless internecine slaughter is pretty much what the Daemons of Khorne do, though, when they're not bound by a sorcerer or teaming up to kill someone else instead. A bit like orks in that respect.

Um...no

Khorne + sorcerer in same sentence. GTFO.

Call it what you want, but when a dude summons and binds a daemon of anything, I'm gonna call it 'sorcery' and feel comfortable doing so,

Arturius wrote:Call it what you want, but when a dude summons and binds a daemon of anything, I'm gonna call it 'sorcery' and feel comfortable doing so,

...except for khorne.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the Titan wasn't really a big deal. It was posessed by a daemon. He killed it, and the STC was destroyed as a result. not a huge stretch.

and he basically incited a huge fight over the world and it self-destructed.

Not a big deal? It has been said that an Imperator is big enough to defend a world, and this titan was supposedly worth quite a few Imperators, PLUS it was bolster by a powerful daemon, PLUS it had a gun that shot daemons.

MASSIVE STRETCH.

the Titan was distracted by the Magos in control of the warhound titan, allowing Alaric to get inside the Titan to the control center.


it was a heroic and ultimate BAMF thing to do, but he's a GK. its in the job description.

Grey Templar wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the Titan wasn't really a big deal. It was posessed by a daemon. He killed it, and the STC was destroyed as a result. not a huge stretch.

and he basically incited a huge fight over the world and it self-destructed.

Not a big deal? It has been said that an Imperator is big enough to defend a world, and this titan was supposedly worth quite a few Imperators, PLUS it was bolster by a powerful daemon, PLUS it had a gun that shot daemons.

MASSIVE STRETCH.

the Titan was distracted by the Magos in control of the warhound titan, allowing Alaric to get inside the Titan to the control center.


it was a heroic and ultimate BAMF thing to do, but he's a GK. its in the job description.

Still a stretch. they have auspex, and daemons. And TWO weapons, one which can obliterate a warhound with contemptuous ease, but the other one would be COMPLETELY incapable of eraticating PA, right?

GK armor is to daemons like salt is to slugs. ever seen a salted slug?

shooting daemons at a GK isn't going to do much.

Grey Templar wrote:GK armor is to daemons like salt is to slugs. ever seen a salted slug?

shooting daemons at a GK isn't going to do much.

They have power weapons /conversation. And with a continuous stream they could even just use impact of the daemons to kill.

Whatever happens, there are many ways to kill a titan, and many of them are available to tau.

How they use them, of course, and what would be the best way to use them, is up to debate.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Arturius wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I doubt the Daemons would fight each other seeing as they're directly controlled by Khorne.

Endless pointless internecine slaughter is pretty much what the Daemons of Khorne do, though, when they're not bound by a sorcerer or teaming up to kill someone else instead. A bit like orks in that respect.

Um...no

Khorne + sorcerer in same sentence. GTFO.

Why? The Khorne hates magic, no exceptions, stuff is mainly found in Warhammer Fantasy. In fact we have several Khorne cults which utilise psykers and sorcery ( Blood Pact and the Sanctified for example ).

Topic=derailed.

So all the Tau need to kill a titan is to convert this uber grey knight over to the greater good. Not sure how the daemon world fits in within the topic.

Topic?

hit with the usual de-rail-guns .

Since we are at chaos engines now, how about them?

- posessed machines, so maybe its crew a bit harder to kill?
- may repair themselves with sorcery?
- chaotic tactics...
- possible help from other factions opposed to chaos?

1hadhq wrote:Topic?

hit with the usual de-rail-guns .

Since we are at chaos engines now, how about them?

- posessed machines, so maybe its crew a bit harder to kill?
- may repair themselves with sorcery?
- chaotic tactics...
- possible help from other factions opposed to chaos?

@ the last part of the list, I could definitely see Eldar+Tau v.s Chaos.

If you destroy the machine, it's going to be finished. Tau railguns/orbital fire should still effect it.

It may mean that the chaos engine is harder to sabotage (feeling the hits, etc.) which might cause Tau commanders to adopt a more linear strategy of large-scale bombardment.

They also have to deal with the forces of chaos, who are an interesting retinue for the titan as, depending on the faction (Khorne, for instance) the retinue might not stay with the titan. Using hit and run tactics coupled with long range artillery bombardment (lined by spotters or via regular bombardment) the tau could probably take out the Titan.

Really it's a question of how best to hit it with a lot of things. Because no matter how possessed you are, rail-rounds landing inside you and blasting you apart with massive amounts of kinetic energy will 'kill' said machine.

They would have to get closer but a squadron of hammerheads with fusion cannons (forgeworld rules) wouldn't be terrible but they would take a pounding to get within range (disruption pods helpful to some extent).

agnosto wrote:They would have to get closer but a squadron of hammerheads with fusion cannons (forgeworld rules) wouldn't be terrible but they would take a pounding to get within range (disruption pods helpful to some extent).

Or they could get Kaldor Draigo to help them, he seems to have a psychic power called "Mary Sue" that's good against chaos.

im2randomghgh wrote:

agnosto wrote:They would have to get closer but a squadron of hammerheads with fusion cannons (forgeworld rules) wouldn't be terrible but they would take a pounding to get within range (disruption pods helpful to some extent).

Or they could get Kaldor Draigo to help them, he seems to have a psychic power called "Mary Sue" that's good against chaos.

Dude, let it go. It's no different than the firewarrior in the game depopulating a marine chapter, IG regiment and Chaos war force and then killing a greater daemon at the end with a spork.

agnosto wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

agnosto wrote:They would have to get closer but a squadron of hammerheads with fusion cannons (forgeworld rules) wouldn't be terrible but they would take a pounding to get within range (disruption pods helpful to some extent).

Or they could get Kaldor Draigo to help them, he seems to have a psychic power called "Mary Sue" that's good against chaos.

Dude, let it go. It's no different than the firewarrior in the game depopulating a marine chapter, IG regiment and Chaos war force and then killing a greater daemon at the end with a spork.

He was aided by Khorne. That is unfortunately canonical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. love sporks

I need to hear the story behind this great tau-khorne-berserker

Retribution wrote:I need to hear the story behind this great tau-khorne-berserker

No one is saying it's a good story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNyr_nc6R8

Need some help here, i can remember a story where a large Tau Hunter Cadre fought a corrupted Warlord Titan ( of Khorne i think ) and, after a costly battle, brought it down.
Can anyone remember where i might have read it?

KingDeath wrote:Need some help here, i can remember a story where a large Tau Hunter Cadre fought a corrupted Warlord Titan ( of Khorne i think ) and, after a costly battle, brought it down.
Can anyone remember where i might have read it?

familiar to me too, but no, I don't remember where.

well in savage scars they hit them with missles ALOT of missles and they dropped a warhound WITHOUT railguns so Titians are not unstoppable

Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

Deadshot wrote:Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

Gameplay is never a good indicator of fluff. And no, they aren't "fairly easy" to destroy. They pose significant problems to any enemy, hence why the Tau had to retrofit a Tiger Shark to take one out.

iproxtaco wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

Gameplay is never a good indicator of fluff. And no, they aren't "fairly easy" to destroy. They pose significant problems to any enemy, hence why the Tau had to retrofit a Tiger Shark to take one out.

That still doesn't change the fact that Warhounds are not "Battle Titans" by any stretch of the imagination.

Kanluwen wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

Gameplay is never a good indicator of fluff. And no, they aren't "fairly easy" to destroy. They pose significant problems to any enemy, hence why the Tau had to retrofit a Tiger Shark to take one out.

That still doesn't change the fact that Warhounds are not "Battle Titans" by any stretch of the imagination.

No, it doesn't, I agreed with him, hence why I didn't contend the point.

No,they are fairly easy to destroy,compared with other Super heavies.AV 14,13 12,3SP,2 voids.Not as durable as a Monlith,and that isn't even superheavy.

Game stats =/= Fluff.

Reacers,in stats and fluff,are twice as durable as Warhounds.Warlords are roughly 50% tougher than reavers

coolyo294 wrote:Game stats =/= Fluff.

+1

Void shields aren't overcome in the game like you had to in the background.

Deadshot wrote:Reacers,in stats and fluff,are twice as durable as Warhounds.Warlords are roughly 50% tougher than reavers

As said before gameplay=/=stats or otherwise the power balance in games would be oh so very different.

Deadshot wrote:Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

How was a titan in a non-apocalypse battle?

It suffered a normal explosion,not an Apocalyptic Explosion,luckily,because my entire nid army was about 4-10 inches away,and they would have suffered a Destroyer hit.Baically they all suffer an auto ID wound,no armour or cover.Only the Doom of Malan'tai had a chance to survive.

Again, whatever happened to your Warhound that probably wasn't supposed to be in the game, game rules =/= fluff, meaning its not relevant.

What you mean it wasn't suppossed to be in the game?

BTW,that stuff about Reavers being 2X as durable as warhounds,is fluff,and game rules.So,being fluff,it is relevant.

Honestly I think the Tau would mainly just avoid Titans. In one of the Codexes it mentions the Tau dont fight to occup land. And Titans are slow. They'd probably just lure the titans out and then attack the supply base.

Deadshot wrote:What you mean it wasn't suppossed to be in the game?

BTW,that stuff about Reavers being 2X as durable as warhounds,is fluff,and game rules.So,being fluff,it is relevant.

Not 100% certain on this but I recollect that Titans are only to be used in Apocalypse games. Yours wasn't, apparently.
Its still not relevant though. The game, how is plays, its mechanics, the stats, do not equal what happens in the fluff. Reavers are more than just twice as durable, they have many other advantages, hence why this game was not in any way evidence to suggest what happens in the fluff.

It's not like fluff and game is separated by a wall of razor sharp tigers. Fluff informs the game and the game also informs the fluff.

If we can see a fluffy comparison of the specs, that would be nice though.

iproxtaco wrote:Titans are only to be used in Apocalypse games. Yours wasn't, apparently.

Where did you get that from?

Deadshot wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Titans are only to be used in Apocalypse games. Yours wasn't, apparently.

Where did you get that from?

Good job cutting out the part where I said I wasn't 100% certain. The fact that their rules are in the Apocalypse book makes me suspect this.

No,they are Apoc only.What did you mean that mine wasn't an Apoc game?

You said it wasn't an Apoc game.

Deadshot wrote:Warhounds are NOT battle tiatns,and are fairly easy to destroy.Today I personally saw one blow up(normal,not Apocalyptic) via Manticore battery.

OH


I meant it wasn't an Apocalyptic explosion!.Sorry about that!It was an Apoc game!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also use a Super heavy vehicle in Spearhead,or a Gargantuan Creature.

"Watson, I do believe I've solved the mystery."

Ratius wrote:*prepares for the inevitable AT-AT vs Titan thread*

Sig'd lol