About my previous statement. I shall definately be using the coming white dwarf as toilet paper. What were they thinking, letting Matt ward write such idiotic fluff to get the C'tan viable for TT? Its like saying ohh the Emperors back but he had a massive war with the spirits of the fallen primarchs and space marines and hes only a shard of his former self and now is about as strong as a greater daemon with some NEW AND EXCITING SPEACIAL RULES, feth off. I sincerely hope this is the last codex he gets to ruin. THis is an abomination.
@Thatguy91 I don't like it either. But who knows, his Sister update had solid fluff, maybe Necrons will to. I won't say anything until I read new codex with my own eyes.
Should be ready for download in a day or 2...
English Assassin wrote:Rather than 'worse', I'd just say 'differently rubbish'.
He didn't say "worse" though. Worse did not appear in his post, which makes your comment appear moderately nonsensical in terms of being a response to him.
And nah, Necrons were awesome before. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
Well I think making the playable C'Tan to be just "shards" makes some sense game wise. Having the complete manifestation of a star god on the board always seemed a bit silly to me especially after killing one with a power klaw. The whole Necrontyr controlled dynasties (instead of C'Tan controlled) definitely does seem less cool and more deliberately like Tomb Kings in Space.
English Assassin wrote:Rather than 'worse', I'd just say 'differently rubbish'.
He didn't say "worse" though. Worse did not appear in his post, which makes your comment appear moderately nonsensical in terms of being a response to him.
And nah, Necrons were awesome before. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
yeah they were awesome BEFORE Matt ''The-destroyer-of-cool-things-in-40k'' Ward touched the codex, he's raping everythings he sees after that theire never the same
Sencho wrote:Well I think making the playable C'Tan to be just "shards" makes some sense game wise. Having the complete manifestation of a star god on the board always seemed a bit silly to me especially after killing one with a power klaw. The whole Necrontyr controlled dynasties (instead of C'Tan controlled) definitely does seem less cool and more deliberately like Tomb Kings in Space.
We have Orks in space, elves in space, demons in space, why not tomb kings?
Mr Nobody wrote:We have Orks in space, elves in space, demons in space, why not tomb kings?
Because for a company that apparently has claimed on multiple occasions they are trying to differentiate 40k and Fantasy to then turn the Necrons' similarities to the Tomb Kings up to 11 comes off as pretty lame. Apparently, don't play Fantasy so can't say how accurate the comparison is.
Though I personally like the ancient Egyptian aesthetic when it was much more subtle, and not so garish and gaudy.
Void__Dragon wrote:Though I personally like the ancient Egyptian aesthetic when it was much more subtle, and not so garish and gaudy.
On this point, we can agree. Ramping it up really does make it resemble the Tomb Kings, besides just being tacky when laid on that thick. The gold just clashes with the standard silver/green/black theme.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ilove40k wrote:yeah they were awesome BEFORE Matt ''The-destroyer-of-cool-things-in-40k'' Ward touched the codex, he's raping everythings he sees after that theire never the same
I would call this image awesome, if I thought I could do so without getting a bolt shell to the face.
They are Tomb kings in space just because most of the ancient worlds major civilizations had a similar "Layout" so to speak. Egypt is just the most famous of these and if you want something to be mysterious and ancient you do it in that fashion because thats what we know and thats what we know people are interested in. Hence tomb kings, hence everything remotely ancient is reffered to as egyptian looking. Or in this case tomb kings. We've been through this before.
And ohh my... Mat Ward is trying to be the new William Shatner? or is he just trying to ruin him aswell? Owait...
I just heard it, and they don't sound OP at all to me at all ( sarcasm ).
It would be great if they began making the Round Table videos again like for the Dark Eldar release, but of course that would be impossible with GW's silly new release policy...
Without having read it I can't criticise Ward... yet! However, the general gist is that he's done it again. W@nk£r.
Having read the shorts from the battle report in the WD release issue, they seem to have developed character. I always thought they were just stone cold (metal cold?) killing machines. Now it seems they have cosy chats with Ultramarines after gauss flaying a few battle brothers. Don't mind the idea of a few characters with "personality" but for the Emperors sake... they should still just be silver psychopaths.
I kind of like the c'tan shard idea, it helps explain why such powerful beings can be overcome on the table top but to change their stats seems to devalue even this. They should still be uber tough.
It's still early days, but hopefully they'll play okay even if the Wardinator has ruined their background.
I am with the majority here though (baaa) If he gets to keep raping the 40K fluff so blatantly will there be any grimness left in the dark?
Harriticus wrote: Now let us just pray the 6th Ed. Tyranid dex doesn't make them have a sense of honor and market economy....
Haha xD Now I have to imagine Tyranid warriors with top hats and monocles discussing Adam Smith x(
All in all the new models look pretty good and the new fluff doesn't seem to be all that bad. Imho it actually makes the Necron more interesting, but then again, I have only read about it on the forum... and I don't really care too much about Necrons anyway...
geordie09 wrote:
Having read the shorts from the battle report in the WD release issue, they seem to have developed character. I always thought they were just stone cold (metal cold?) killing machines. Now it seems they have cosy chats with Ultramarines after gauss flaying a few battle brothers. Don't mind the idea of a few characters with "personality" but for the Emperors sake... they should still just be silver psychopaths.
This is my biggest problem with the new fluff as well. I think the new models look good even if they are a little more tomb kingy. It's just that the menace of the Necrons has been taken away. With the previous fluff their whole point was that the C'Tan wanted to drink the life out of the universe. Now it's the unity, obedience, blah blah. Hey, we all just woke up and want our spot on the playground back please. We can even be friends if you are an honorable opponent and all. I don't want Taucrons for goodness sake! I want death centered Necrons as the name is supposed to imply.
Durza wrote:What's with Trazyn apparently acting the same as Alpharius on the battlefield by the way?
Maybe he is alpharius!
Seriously though, he's meant to be the character that uses tricks and subterfuge to beat the enemy, every codex is getting something like this lately.
Not the Space Marines. Though I don't see how someone can be completely logical, but get bored of his plans as Ward claims. And he really needs to stop hyperbole-ing his characters. 'The best strategist the galaxy has ever seen.' Does this mean he's a better strategist than Tzeentch or what?
geordie09 wrote:Having read the shorts from the battle report in the WD release issue, they seem to have developed character. I always thought they were just stone cold (metal cold?) killing machines. Now it seems they have cosy chats with Ultramarines after gauss flaying a few battle brothers. Don't mind the idea of a few characters with "personality" but for the Emperors sake... they should still just be silver psychopaths.
I am with the majority here though (baaa) If he gets to keep raping the 40K fluff so blatantly will there be any grimness left in the dark?
I think this speaks to why I take so much issue with the usual complaints against new canon, and against fan-made ideas; I don't like grimdark. I like metal, which is what attracted me to 40K in the first place, but it appears that most of that survived the grimdark only for a single edition following the original.
At first, I thought everyone else was being unreasonably stongarmed in their depictions of these various instances of characters simply not killing one another right off the bat as effete, tea-partyesque holidays where Space Marine and Necron frolic hand-in-hand through a field of posies. But then I realized, by 40K's so-called grimdark standard, simply not murdering someone on sight is, in fact, a proportionately nice thing to do, comparable in our world to having someone over for tea and scones.
Apparently, I have made the mistake of approaching the fiction using my own modern human preconceptions of what is or is not a friendly gesture, so naturally, to me, the Blood Angels and Necrons "teaming up" still looks a lot like a legitimate tactical decision based on desperate circumstances, requiring no sense of amity or even cooperation between the two forces.
And just in case it's not clear, I'm not actually being sarcastic; I genuinely find these individual differences in perception interesting.
Durza wrote:What's with Trazyn apparently acting the same as Alpharius on the battlefield by the way?
Maybe he is alpharius!
Seriously though, he's meant to be the character that uses tricks and subterfuge to beat the enemy, every codex is getting something like this lately.
Not the Space Marines. Though I don't see how someone can be completely logical, but get bored of his plans as Ward claims. And he really needs to stop hyperbole-ing his characters. 'The best strategist the galaxy has ever seen.' Does this mean he's a better strategist than Tzeentch or what?
But you do have characters like Lucas the trickster for space wolves, the deathleaper for tyranids and Tzeentche characters for demons. But no, space marines are an exception right now.
It seems most people who liked the old fluff miss the unending tide of life hating robots. However, I'm not seeing anywhere in the new fluff where this is invalidated. There's no reason you can't have a Necron Overlord go on an extermination spree like the good old days.
Also the Necrons were never really a cosmic horror in the Lovecraftian sense. I mean it's pretty simple: they kill everything and hate life, nothing unknowable there. The dark, mytserious, terrifying stuff is still intact, whether it's killing people on a mass scale, making crop circles, or abducting people to "probe" them.
My favorite part of the Necrons were how they had that real-world alien conspiracy slant to them. Like there was one story about a boy who had some organs and glands removed with immense surgical precision. It was like something you'd hear about alien grays on Coast to Coast. And all that can still exist, the fluff seems flexible.
People are already starting to Rage. On our Facebook page is a real fight because of Trazyn the Infinite. Because MAtt said that he in his collection have "a giant man clad in baroque power armour". Half of people are arguing that he have a Primarch in his possession, I don't believe that but knowing Matt I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.
Personally I do not love the new fluff... I think that Necrons are now simply mechanical Goa'uld (I hope this is the correct spelling) from Stargate SG-1...
I preferred much the "let the harvest begin" fluff... in particular I LOVED the halo of mistery shrouding necron tomb worlds and the strange connections between the C'tans and the adeptus mechanicus and the inquisition... It seems that everything is gone now... so sad...
punkow wrote:Personally I do not love the new fluff... I think that Necrons are now simply mechanical Goa'uld (I hope this is the correct spelling) from Stargate SG-1...
I preferred much the "let the harvest begin" fluff... in particular I LOVED the halo of mistery shrouding necron tomb worlds and the strange connections between the C'tans and the adeptus mechanicus and the inquisition... It seems that everything is gone now... so sad...
Why is any of that stuff gone now? A lot of people keep saying this but to me it seems the new fluff is flexible enough to allow old crons to exist with newcrons.
asimo77 wrote:It seems most people who liked the old fluff miss the unending tide of life hating robots. However, I'm not seeing anywhere in the new fluff where this is invalidated. There's no reason you can't have a Necron Overlord go on an extermination spree like the good old days.
Also the Necrons were never really a cosmic horror in the Lovecraftian sense. I mean it's pretty simple: they kill everything and hate life, nothing unknowable there. The dark, mytserious, terrifying stuff is still intact, whether it's killing people on a mass scale, making crop circles, or abducting people to "probe" them.
My favorite part of the Necrons were how they had that real-world alien conspiracy slant to them. Like there was one story about a boy who had some organs and glands removed with immense surgical precision. It was like something you'd hear about alien grays on Coast to Coast. And all that can still exist, the fluff seems flexible.
The Lovecraftian horror aspect was the C'tan. Now that they just fragments of themselves that are enslaved to their own machines that should have had loyalty programmed into them, the 40k setting has lost this horror. What will happen to the Void Dragon, the Outcast trapped in the Dyson Sphere, the pariah gene, the Nightbringer bestowing the fear of death in all of the Old Ones' races (besides the Orks), or the C'tan's plot to sever the Immaterium from the Materium entirely? Not only Necron players have lost all of this; the entire 40k setting has. It was completely possible to make the Necrons more 'interesting' to the people who didn't like them without completely crushing the C'tan.
Well... The old fluff is not totally invalidated but it lose most of its charme... You can still imagine a Lord acting in the old-fashioned way but it will be something limited to your lord... the official fluff is different... You can say what you want but the shroud of mistery that used to be one of the necron trademarks is gone... But I'll wait for the dex to make my final opinion
Brother Coa wrote:People are already starting to Rage. On our Facebook page is a real fight because of Trazyn the Infinite. Because MAtt said that he in his collection have "a giant man clad in baroque power armour". Half of people are arguing that he have a Primarch in his possession, I don't believe that but knowing Matt I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.
Once more, from WD shorts, he hints that he's after nicking Guilliman from Macragge too... so it's probably true.
asimo77 wrote:Why is any of that stuff gone now? A lot of people keep saying this but to me it seems the new fluff is flexible enough to allow old crons to exist with newcrons.
None of it is gone. I think-- and this has only been my personal impression, from here and other places I've been too-- most people are simply angry that something they consider to be a cheapening or "declawing" of their grimdark monsters is even a legitimate option. Before, something like these new Necrons as some green teenage player's fanmade idea on the other end of the table could be dismissed out of hand as a dumb kid not doing it right. Now, all of those things have been made true, part an official release and thus canonical.
It doesn't seem to matter if they can have the old stuff along with the new; the insult to their classic has already been levied. In all sincerity, maybe I simply don't take the setting seriously enough to be properly bothered about it. Maybe, in order to be a true fan of the game, I should be bothered. But I'm not, and it requires me to bend over backwards to rationalize everyone else's hate.
While I reserve any true hate until I have actually read the codex, I will say now that I am very nervous about this supposed ret con.
I for one, did like the Lovecraftian element to them, the horror and lack of humanity, and while I would have been ok with some changes (especially to the C'Tan) - I think Ward's taken it too far from reading the comments and rumors.
It appears to me as though he is almost trying to cookie cutter all the races into some kind of similarity, with all true "alien"ness taken away.
I will be modelling my Necrons the same as ever and will treat them the same as well - the C'Tan will be treated almost like "avatars" of sorts in my mind.
I want my old C'tan back already... I miss them... :(
When you look at, say, the Nightbringer... You are supposed to see a herald of death and darkness. He is supposed to look dark and majectic. He is supposed to rise above the battle field and darken the skies while he swings his massive scythe with inhuman ease, cutting in twain everything in its path. His is supposed to point at a inferior space marine chapter master and say "DESPAIR for I am the end of days!"
Now its kinda like the space marine jas a rebuttal... Well, you know what you're not all that great anymore, Im sure if I got some good hits in I could kill you, foul xeno!
So all indicators point towards Matt Ward having butchered another codex. Is anyone really surprised by this? I realize that the codex isn't even released yet, but experience shows us that Matt Ward writes worse fluff then my 11 year old sister could. As a former grey knights player, I wish all 'cron players good luck. Hopefully Ward wasn't given such free reign as to totally destroy why you liked them in the first place. Do you think he draws a silhouette of each codex he's killed on the side of his computer or something similar?
thank you for listening to another Matt Ward sucks rant
We know that it wasn't Matt Ward who wrote the entire codex. There were rumours that he asked for help with the Necron background, and the design team told us at Games Day that it isn't only one person writing the codex; others contribute a large portion, but the main developer is the only person credited as the author.
That may be so but judging from his previous works id say it is entirely possible that the entire retcon was his work with a few noters on the side on some bits that he couldnt quite make is mind up on.
On a slightly different note, while reading the new Necron background in the new Codex, I can't help but be struck by what seems to be Ward's biases exerting themselves. Does he have something against the Eldar (Alaitoc in particular?)? After the whole Avatar incident in the SM Codex, in the new Necron Codex, the Alaitoc Eldar seem to show up only to be defeated over and over again as the whipping boys for the Necrons. While all races suffer setbacks, it is also noticeable that the Space Marines seem to be the only faction that come off better (and we all know what group Ward favors). For example, the White Scar Khan is the one that impresses a Necron Lord so much that he is let go, dragging away an Eldar fellow escapee who serves merely as victim to be rescued. The Black Templars despite an earlier defeat, end up destroying the flagship of Imotekh (the all new seemingly unstoppably strategic Mary Sue Necron Lord).
Ward favors Necrons. It hasn't exactly been a secret either, as he and Jervis played through "the Fall of Damnos" when the new plastic Terminators released.
Spoiler:
Ultramarines won, and Jervis was playing them. Ward was playing with his own personal Necron army though
Considering how the latest WD battle report is used to make the Ultramarines look good, the Necrons look honorable and gracious even in defeat, and the Eldar look bad (and incidentally delivering up the Eldar Farseer mentioned in the Codex, Eldorath, to the Ultramarines), the claim Ward's favorites are Necrons is laughable. For those that don't know the report, in it, the Eldar and UM ally to defeat the Necrons, but then the Eldar have their Farseer captured by the Necrons and sent to the UM for betraying the UM. So in other words, when the Eldar win, they still lose and shown as backstabbing, when the UM win, they win and are honorable, and when the Necrons lose, they still end up being shown to be honorable and thus gain the consolation prize of a "moral victory".
Certainly at the least, he seems to have something against Eldar as it seems he makes a point of making them the whipping boys of what he writes. I am not even being a particular advocate of Eldar being all powerful or anything, but simply between the Avatar's Worf effect and the new Necron Codex showing the incompetent Eldar Farseer it is rather glaring that one faction seems to be taking the fall more often than others. Having 2 elder races fight it out while humanity is caught in the crossfire can work, but only if one side isn't shown as being incompetent.
I have no problems with the new fluff, i've read it, i've interpreted it and it looks to be a massive improvement. All they did to the fluff was make it accessible to a wider audience, now that each tomb world is bound under an overlord and as such has different styles of operating necrons can be moulded into any form a player wants. If you want mindless tin zombies, you can still have them, if you want an honourable, medieval type necron army then you can have them! Matthew Ward really didn't take anything away from the fluff, he just opened up new routes in what we already had. The amount of hate he's gotten is appauling really considering he did a GOOD JOB in balancing the requirements of older players and expectations of newer ones. Personally, I feel people made conclusions based on rumours that didn't give the full story and judged him on those rumours, he's done well and it was unfair for people to write him out as an 'idiot' before the codex even came out. Yeah, he messed up the Grey Knight codex, unfortunate, but that was in the past give people credit for the present.
Some people adored the old fluff and it was the reason they started 'crons, I know I loved it too but the fact that not all necrons are now bound to act in this manner doesn't mean GW has killed the way necron players played their armies. Seriously, if people are genuinely angry that necrons aren't as one dimensional as they once were and have the option of being different then they can decide to play as one of the tomb worlds that still have no individualism and follow the C'tan but for those who wanted flavour, they've now got it. It's a win, win situation I really don't see why anyone shouldn't play by the new fluff. We take what we get, and we've gotten a whole lot to mess around with.
Also, yes, the 'Ultramarines' did win in the BATTLE REPORT. It was a consequence of the actual players meeting on the table top and certainly not of Ward's design. Had the necrons won the game the fluff would probably had resulted in the annihaltion of the marines and Eldar much to the delight of all of those who liked the zombie aspect of the necrons, but they didn't. As such, the fluff written with it was done to illustrate the possiblities that necron players now had abvaliable to them fluff wise. Never before would a necron player capture and return a farseer as an act of honour, but now, it's possible IF YOU WANT TO. That doesn't mean he favours Ultramarines and intends to show the Eldar as an evil race it's just the way things panned out considering the Necrons destroyed the old ones (with the help of the C'tan) and as such are sworn enemies of the Eldar who seek to abolish them for doing just that. So, whilst the necrons could have killed the farseer upon capture, the overlord of that particular tomb-world that had gone to war decided to hand him over because the lord himself was honourable. Again, that's just one of the hundreds of overlords and as a consequence hundreds of opporunities for unique fluff.
I'll give it a couple of months before everyone either forgets about the change in fluff or quits necrons entirely before setting up any of my own fluff for fear of an up-roar with how dis-similar it is from the previous dex's background story.
I'm amazed in the difference of opinion displayed here and in the N&R thread.
Here, people criticise the new fluff and Mat Ward.
There, people welcome the new fluff as a much needed and largely well-done change, whilst acknowledging that Mat Ward didn't write the Codex by himself and therefore much hatred directed at him is redundant. There's no way that one guy would or could change the back ground for an entire army; he would and did have help from the design team as a whole.
KsTracer wrote:who wanted flavour, they've now got it. It's a win, win situation I really don't see why anyone shouldn't play by the new fluff. We take what we get, and we've gotten a whole lot to mess around with.
Also, yes, the 'Ultramarines' did win in the BATTLE REPORT. It was a consequence of the actual players meeting on the table top and certainly not of Ward's design. Had the necrons won the game the fluff would probably had resulted in the annihaltion of the marines and Eldar much to the delight of all of those who liked the zombie aspect of the necrons, but they didn't. As such, the fluff written with it was done to illustrate the possiblities that necron players now had abvaliable to them fluff wise. Never before would a necron player capture and return a farseer as an act of honour, but now, it's possible IF YOU WANT TO. That doesn't mean he favours Ultramarines and intends to show the Eldar as an evil race it's just the way things panned out considering the Necrons destroyed the old ones (with the help of the C'tan) and as such are sworn enemies of the Eldar who seek to abolish them for doing just that. So, whilst the necrons could have killed the farseer upon capture, the overlord of that particular tomb-world that had gone to war decided to hand him over because the lord himself was honourable. Again, that's just one of the hundreds of overlords and as a consequence hundreds of opporunities for unique fluff.
Yes the UM did win and I have no problems with that or with the possibility of the Necrons exterminating the two allied forces if the Necrons had won. What is dubious is how despite the Eldar also being on the winning side, they are then written up to be a partial loss. If they win a battle, let them enjoy the spoils of victory instead of trying to dampen things by inflicting losses on them. It is like the old Eye of Terror campaign where Eldrad died and the Eldar failed to recover any Talismans of Vaul despite doing well as a faction in the campaign, and the Medusa V campaign where the Autarch is killed off despite the Eldar being in the top 3 factions and achieving their strategic objective. When one looks further at all the times Avatars have been bumped off (no Avatar has had a clear cut victory for literally several editions now), and it almost looks like GW can't seem to bear the thought of the Eldar actually winning something in a clear cut fashion for once.
The basic point is if a side wins, let them win. If they lose, then yes they take losses in background, but if they win let them enjoy victory.
Iracundus wrote:Considering how the latest WD battle report is used to make the Ultramarines look good, the Necrons look honorable and gracious even in defeat, and the Eldar look bad (and incidentally delivering up the Eldar Farseer mentioned in the Codex, Eldorath, to the Ultramarines), the claim Ward's favorites are Necrons is laughable. For those that don't know the report, in it, the Eldar and UM ally to defeat the Necrons, but then the Eldar have their Farseer captured by the Necrons and sent to the UM for betraying the UM. So in other words, when the Eldar win, they still lose and shown as backstabbing, when the UM win, they win and are honorable, and when the Necrons lose, they still end up being shown to be honorable and thus gain the consolation prize of a "moral victory".
Certainly at the least, he seems to have something against Eldar as it seems he makes a point of making them the whipping boys of what he writes. I am not even being a particular advocate of Eldar being all powerful or anything, but simply between the Avatar's Worf effect and the new Necron Codex showing the incompetent Eldar Farseer it is rather glaring that one faction seems to be taking the fall more often than others. Having 2 elder races fight it out while humanity is caught in the crossfire can work, but only if one side isn't shown as being incompetent.
The Eldar ARE backstabbing. They have been for a loooooooooooooong time. They care not for humanity or its trials and tribulations, they care only that they and their kin survive.
Wow it has been a lot of time waiting for this. I just finished the Codex: Necrons.
The background of the Necrons had three main sources: killing machines, Eldritch abominations and space mummies.
The new codex focuses on the last, no way to go around that, but it gives the player the option to play a “Severed World” (page 8), old style killing machines Necrons, “other Necrons … loath and fear their inhabitants in equal measure”. We have lots of dark stuff. Destroyers, destroyer lords and the humble necron warrior have gone darker. So Necs can be scary… if you want. Or mummies, if that is your thing.
Major retcons:
1) Pariahs. No longer mentioned. It looks like the Necrons are not anymore recruiting among the humans, and they didn´t have a part in humanity evolution. There is no more a terrible crop to harvest. They didn´t alter the Old Ones creations, and they have not a master plan against the warp. The next step in the ideal of the C´Tan? Forget it. However, they are not specifically denied.
2) Enslavers. The hottest xenos ever to be created by GW are still alive and kicking, but they are no longer a major player in the War in Heaven. It is specifically said that it was the Eldar, not the Enslavers, who made the Necrons retreat. I think it makes no sense. Why did not the Eldar take advantage of their superior power and speed to destroy the Necrons when they went to sleep? Enslavers died by starvation. It made sense.
3) There are (perhaps) many C´Tan. It is unclear what they are, but they taste of Chaos with a little bit of Lovecraft love and Eldritch abomination. Nice creatures. Most of them / all of them (not sure) are now mindless slaves and have been broken into pieces. The Deceiver is a main character, and the Nightbringer (not the Night Bringer) is mentioned twice. The Void Dragon and the Outsider are not mentioned. There are some new C´tan, such as Llandu´gor The Flayer (a really nice dude) and Iash´uddra The Endless Swarm, who may be or may be not the tyranid Great Devourer.
4) Necrons are no longer a major thread. They have petty empires, waging an endless civil war. It is specifically said so. They will be a threat if they unite (just like Orks of Chaos), but their program has been modified to give them free will. And they are using this free will to fight one another. Some Necrons are trying to get them united though.
5) They have emotions. They brag, laugh, hate, loath, despair, fear, do stupid things out of emo feelings, ask for help, consort with space marines and mwahahahaha! when it all goes just as planned. Again, page 8 and destroyer lords allow the player to ignore this abomination.
New Fluff:
1) We have a new Draigo, phaeron Imotekh (not related to Imoteph, doctor and chancellor in ancient Egypt, and the bad guy in The Mummy). He is the awesomest awesome space mummy out there, so he has page after page of 12-year-old background really painful to read, scattered across the codex. Mat Ward at his finest.
2) Most of the fluff for the special characters is ridiculous. Really.
3) The background for the Flayed Ones has changed from something really dark to other thing really dark too. I am slighyly confused about them.
4) Trolls and haters will be happy: pages 24 to 27 are dedicated to them. Expect lots of threads full of ward-love.
Overall: it is good, it allows almost all Necron players to find a niche. I enjoyed reading (most of) it. It is not as bad as expected. I liked it. I think it is apparent that it was written by many persons. Some pages are really well written, other are... .
I miss my pariahs and more enslavers-love though. And the background of the special characters is… hard to stomach.
Iracundus wrote:Considering how the latest WD battle report is used to make the Ultramarines look good, the Necrons look honorable and gracious even in defeat, and the Eldar look bad (and incidentally delivering up the Eldar Farseer mentioned in the Codex, Eldorath, to the Ultramarines), the claim Ward's favorites are Necrons is laughable. For those that don't know the report, in it, the Eldar and UM ally to defeat the Necrons, but then the Eldar have their Farseer captured by the Necrons and sent to the UM for betraying the UM. So in other words, when the Eldar win, they still lose and shown as backstabbing, when the UM win, they win and are honorable, and when the Necrons lose, they still end up being shown to be honorable and thus gain the consolation prize of a "moral victory".
Certainly at the least, he seems to have something against Eldar as it seems he makes a point of making them the whipping boys of what he writes. I am not even being a particular advocate of Eldar being all powerful or anything, but simply between the Avatar's Worf effect and the new Necron Codex showing the incompetent Eldar Farseer it is rather glaring that one faction seems to be taking the fall more often than others. Having 2 elder races fight it out while humanity is caught in the crossfire can work, but only if one side isn't shown as being incompetent.
The Eldar ARE backstabbing. They have been for a loooooooooooooong time. They care not for humanity or its trials and tribulations, they care only that they and their kin survive.
And that Eldar backstab has not been the issue at all. Good job of not addressing the main point. The point was that the Eldar end up still being punished in terms of background despite being among the victors, while the UM get to bask in winning. The original point is how Ward's writing seems to consistently portray the Eldar as incompetent and losing, and in this case losing even when they win, seemingly showing a double standard. Now if they later show the Eldar using the Stars of Khaine in somewhat useful fashion or showing Eldorath is not a bumbling fool then I withdraw my objection, but thus far Eldorath has lost twice to the Necrons, lost a hand to Imotekh, and gotten his sorry self captured even when he ostensibly wins. That is a long series of failures to make up for.
They could have just as easily written it as the UM celebrating victory then finding out they were backstabbed after the Eldar had left, and then shaking their fists and vowing revenge. Alternatively, the defeated Necrons could have sent a message or shown them that the Eldar had done so, accomplishing the same yet letting the victors be victors and the losers be losers in that battle report, and perhaps showing Necrons sowing discord among the other factions.
So you're using the Eye of Terror as an example of this despite the fact that Ward was just an intern at that point?
Andy Chambers wrote the fluff for that. He was a pretty big Eldar fan.
Secretly, I guess he must think Guilleman is his spiritual liege as well huh?
I haven't gotten to read the actual fluff in the Newcron book yet, but rate it for me on a scale of Pete Haines(fluff is there to justify outrageous rules) to Thorpe(terrible rules justify terrible fluff)?
Iracundus wrote: The original point is how Ward's writing seems to consistently portray the Eldar as incompetent and losing, and in this case losing even when they win, seemingly showing a double standard.
But then again, Eldar made the Necrons retreat at the end of the War in Heaven (page 7: "the Great Sleep"). This is something completely new. Eldar were supposed to be near extinction due to the Enslavers invasion. Now, thanks to Ward, Eldar were the most powerful faction. Stronger than Necs, C´tan, Enslavers, Old Ones (and sons)... they were victorious.
Sisters of Battle, on the other hand, get a beating any time Ward writes something.
Kanluwen wrote:
I haven't gotten to read the actual fluff in the Newcron book yet, but rate it for me on a scale of Pete Haines(fluff is there to justify outrageous rules) to Thorpe(terrible rules justify terrible fluff)?
At first sight, good rules (some issues in the Troops section: few units, few choices).
Fluff: overall acceptable. Some stuff here and there infuriating / poorly written / ignoring previous fluff / troll food / making no sense.
Mat Ward level.
Kanluwen wrote:So you're using the Eye of Terror as an example of this despite the fact that Ward was just an intern at that point?
Andy Chambers wrote the fluff for that. He was a pretty big Eldar fan.
Secretly, I guess he must think Guilleman is his spiritual liege as well huh?
I haven't gotten to read the actual fluff in the Newcron book yet, but rate it for me on a scale of Pete Haines(fluff is there to justify outrageous rules) to Thorpe(terrible rules justify terrible fluff)?
No, I compared it to the Eye of Terror campaign. You seem to have mistaken comparison with claiming it is an example. Certainly though at GW there seems to be such an undercurrent of such a practice whether it is intentional or unintentional. If one goes through all the Avatar mentions, it hasn't had a clear cut victory since about 2nd edition and has had one previous victory re-written into a defeat (Iyanden vs Tyranids).
The background has certain gaping holes in consistency and logic that could have and should have been spotted. Leaving aside for the moment whether one likes or dislikes the concept of Tomb Kings in space, since that is a subjective preference, there are retcons to the Necron FTL method that strain disbelief (claiming they have no FTL system and rely on "hacking" the Webway) and upend existing background (BFG for example). There are also parts that strain credibility such as all the hype over Quantum Shielding. So much "super science" to achieve a conditional AV13, when slapping on some heavier armor plating like the Imperium could give you AV13 or better all year round. Unstated too is why the Necrons felt the need to slumber in the face of the Eldar (since all the mentions of the War in Heaven don't seem to show the Eldar as such a huge threat), or why the Eldar didn't end up destroying more Tombs instead of simply sitting in vigil over them. Other small details raise eyebrows such as Immortals having voices, so that they can issue reports to superiors and orders to Warriors. Surely they would not need to use such crude methods of communication with each other as speaking? In the section on Triarch Praetorians, who have been awake for 60 million years, it mentions sponsoring of Necron-like cultures in other races, only for these to then be destroyed by for example, outriders from Alaitoc Craftworld (which has only existed since just before the Fall, i.e. 10,000 years ago).
In summary, some parts have potential but are spoiled by lack of attention to detail or strange retcons that strain disbelief. The overall retcon of Necrons and C'tan is also clumsy and IMO would have been better handled if the Necron rebellion had occurred after the War in Heaven, after the Necrons found the C'tan weaker than ever upon awakening. That way old Necron players could still be C'tan loyalists and have C'tan shards manipulating the galaxy, trying to complete the Great Work of warding off the warp, and trying to reassemble themselves, while those that prefer Tomb Kings in space can be the rebellious Necrons.
Yeah the fluff of the new codex doesn't sound too bad in concept. I want to read it though, and judge for myself. I haven't read a new codex since...ummm...Tyranids I think it was, though.
Kanluwen wrote:The C'Tan were crappy fluff to begin with.
Why is that?
Now at least they make sense to be fielded, just like Avatars and Greater Daemons.
While the actual, genuine C'tan should of indeed never been fieldable, shattering them into tiny pieces (You know, like what was done with Khaine) didn't need to be done to make fielding them sensable. Especially since Dawn of War successfully justified fielding them without nerfing them from a narrative perspective, making their essence possess Necron Lords as avatars. Much easier to swallow than "They got broken into pieces and are slaves now" IMO.
Kanluwen wrote:The C'Tan were crappy fluff to begin with.
Why is that?
"How can we make 'Not Warp Gods'?"
"I know, let's say they're beings made of pure energy which devour suns!"
"BRILLIANT!"
"Guys--shouldn't we describe it a bit more than that...? Or at least tone them down?"
"Go sit in the corner, we're geniusing!"
Now at least they make sense to be fielded, just like Avatars and Greater Daemons.
While the actual, genuine C'tan should of indeed never been fieldable, shattering them into tiny pieces (You know, like what was done with Khaine) didn't need to be done to make fielding them sensable. Especially since Dawn of War successfully justified fielding them without nerfing them from a narrative perspective, making their essence possess Necron Lords as avatars. Much easier to swallow than "They got broken into pieces and are slaves now" IMO.
Except what you described from Dawn of War was stupid too. C'Tan are not Daemons, they cannot interact with the physical world without a physical body or manifesting one themselves. That makes possessing an organic or even an inorganic thing impossible.
Within the new description, it makes sense at least. The Necrodermis shells that the C'Tan originally possessed were destroyed. The Necrontyr then built smaller ones which could only contain so much of the C'Tan's essences.
Think of it like this. Say you have a big pitcher of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being. That big pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being then decides to start devouring your city.
You think "Well, if its power comes from it being all together...why not separate it?".
Et voila. You no longer have a pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being--but rather multiple small cups which can still do miraculous things but can't do the things it used to because of its power being diffused.
It seems to me, that the fluff made the C'tan even stronger.
I mean, it says they were blowing up suns, and creating black holes on their own. They are still the most powerful beings to Manifest in the Physical realm of the galaxy, thus far.
New Fluff is good. I'm glad I can add a lot of personality to my Army.
The fluff makes them stronger, but I can't see the Nightbringer getting sharded without a few dead solar systems. The Deciever could very well have planned it in the hopes of acting in many places at once.
Durza wrote:The fluff makes them stronger, but I can't see the Nightbringer getting sharded without a few dead solar systems. The Deciever could very well have planned it in the hopes of acting in many places at once.
Wow, that's a really fantasic Idea! I like your thinking there!
Yeah, it said that the Necrons were reduced from Trillions, to billions. So I could see a few Solar Systems getting knocked out.
You could have fielded weakened C'tan without destroying everything they were and turning them into slaves in an utterly nonsensical fashion.
And this new WD battle report about the Necrons helping the Ultramarines out of their sense of honor would have shocked me just a month ago, but here we are....
Sasori wrote:It seems to me, that the fluff made the C'tan even stronger.
I mean, it says they were blowing up suns, and creating black holes on their own. They are still the most powerful beings to Manifest in the Physical realm of the galaxy, thus far.
New Fluff is good. I'm glad I can add a lot of personality to my Army.
Only gained some glimpses of the fluff in a first read.
IMO it lost some existant story arcs.
Spoiler:
Dragon? Not mentioned at all.
The HH is, the apostasy is, solar macharius is, etc but the Dragon at Mars?
Deleted??
Outsider? Does it still exist?
Any minion of the old ones who isn't an Eldar, forgotten? (KR)ork for example?
OtoH it has some ties to the inquisition codex, the book of the knights who are grey and its inhabitants.
Spoiler:
- Inq Valeria, tesseract labyrinths.
- Ulumeathi.
And the usual 'kick the TAu ' event:
Spoiler:
Ka'mais.
The change which i dislike most is the presentation of the Necrons stellar travel capabilities:
Spoiler:
"As a race bereft of Psykers, the Necrons are incapable of warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow voyaging stasis ships, dooming them to isolation."
Excuse me?
Weren't their fleets one of the best?
There was a lot of monarchy in spase added. Why has it to be this way everywhere? Couldn't one come up with something different?
But there is also the treatment of the image of the Necrons as it were:
Spoiler:
Programmed loyality, programmed soulless automatons..... welcome to skynet titan.
I miss the silence we had. The chilling , unnerving silence.
Don't want my undead in spase turned into Data.
May I field that settra model as Pharaoh....sorry... Phaeron ?
Because. It has to be done. When a company lacks the creativity to use the rich history and myths of the dirtball we call home and goes for the same plundered theme of egypt in spase , you either give up or dive in.
Good fluff needs more than a few ties to other 5th ed fluff.The new Codex Necrons is at best 'acceptable' .
Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.
So nobody who actually enjoyed the old Necron fluff should be allowed to voice their displeasure, yet everybody who enjoys it can sing their praises to the heavens if they want?
lolwut?
Not to mention, this fluff IS garbage, for example, now they are capable of completely destroying the Imperium of Man in an instant if they wanted to.
The lack of mention of Void Dragon/Outsider is not a surprise at all. The C'tan are gone, enslaved weapons with no fluff relevance. Dragon/Outsider are too threatening to the Galaxy, the Necrons are petty empires which war with one another now.
Wasting precious space of dakka with nothing to contribute?
FinalAnswer wrote:So nobody who actually enjoyed the old Necron fluff should be allowed to voice their displeasure, yet everybody who enjoys it can sing their praises to the heavens if they want?
lolwut?
First off, I didn't say that people who enjoyed it previously can't voice their displeasure.
The brutal truth is that people are simply whining that it's no longer the old fluff, which mostly was disregarded seemingly due to the fact that people thought that Necrons were an entire race of robots.
While it sucks for those who liked the old fluff--it also sucks for those of us who are going to be reading these threads which consist of no actual, substantive critiques beyond individuals like Iracundus and instead we get Brother Coa styled posts.
Not to mention, this fluff IS garbage, for example, now they are capable of completely destroying the Imperium of Man in an instant if they wanted to.
The fun fact is that they very likely could have done it previously.
Harriticus wrote:The lack of mention of Void Dragon/Outsider is not a surprise at all. The C'tan are gone, enslaved weapons with no fluff relevance.
You mean outside of being the shattered remnants of godlike beings who elevated the Necrontyr from a fourth rate, mustache twirling Star Trek-esque bad guy dressed up in silly costumes to a race which was able to cause the toppling of the Old Ones?
Yeah. Totally no fluff relevance.
Dragon/Outsider are too threatening to the Galaxy, the Necrons are petty empires which war with one another now.
The Dragon was a joke anyways. All he's really accomplished is a dogmatic schism within the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.
The Necrons at war is fine. Previously, Necrons were the only race which had very few hooks for having wars between each other outside of "The C'Tan did it".
That's not a good thing.
Kanluwen wrote:"How can we make 'Not Warp Gods'?"
"I know, let's say they're beings made of pure energy which devour suns!"
"BRILLIANT!"
"Guys--shouldn't we describe it a bit more than that...? Or at least tone them down?"
"Go sit in the corner, we're geniusing!"
I was being serious when I asked you that. It's a shame you can't be equally serious in response to my question.
They were alien entities formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe, and then had their essence compressed into necrodermis shells. They feed on energy, be it the matter and energy emanating from life, or the energies of a sun (Which they fed on because nothing smaller could even catch their attention). This is all explained pretty well. Try harder.
Except what you described from Dawn of War was stupid too. C'Tan are not Daemons, they cannot interact with the physical world without a physical body or manifesting one themselves. That makes possessing an organic or even an inorganic thing impossible.
Within the new description, it makes sense at least. The Necrodermis shells that the C'Tan originally possessed were destroyed. The Necrontyr then built smaller ones which could only contain so much of the C'Tan's essences.
Think of it like this. Say you have a big pitcher of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being. That big pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being then decides to start devouring your city.
You think "Well, if its power comes from it being all together...why not separate it?".
Et voila. You no longer have a pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being--but rather multiple small cups which can still do miraculous things but can't do the things it used to because of its power being diffused.
You are aware that what happened in Dawn of War and what you just described/what is in the new codex are basically the same thing right?
They could project a small portion of their consciousness, their power, into a smaller, less "capable" shell and their servants make use of them to wage war, rather than use the entire essence of a C'tan. That's not so different is it? And it was done without the Deceiver suddenly becoming a moron by handing the Silent King the controls to the Necron legions (Yes I am reading the codex right now).
Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.
Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.
It's difficult to take you seriously when you spew your own opinion as a fact while discounting others without contributing anything.
Also, deus ex machina? Now they could, with the press of a button, annihilate Terra on a whim. Lol.
Kanluwen wrote:"How can we make 'Not Warp Gods'?"
"I know, let's say they're beings made of pure energy which devour suns!"
"BRILLIANT!"
"Guys--shouldn't we describe it a bit more than that...? Or at least tone them down?"
"Go sit in the corner, we're geniusing!"
I was being serious when I asked you that. It's a shame you can't be equally serious in response to my question.
They were alien entities formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe, and then had their essence compressed into necrodermis shells. They feed on energy, be it the matter and energy emanating from life, or the energies of a sun (Which they fed on because nothing smaller could even catch their attention). This is all explained pretty well. Try harder.
I'm aware of what they are.
What you're also not mentioning is that they were "formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe" and somehow were the antithesis of the Old Ones who were creating and seeding said universe.
They also weren't "compressed". They were trapped by the Necrontyr.
It's also bizarre that for some reason they went from "feeding upon stars" to "feeding upon organic lifeforms".
Except what you described from Dawn of War was stupid too. C'Tan are not Daemons, they cannot interact with the physical world without a physical body or manifesting one themselves. That makes possessing an organic or even an inorganic thing impossible.
Within the new description, it makes sense at least. The Necrodermis shells that the C'Tan originally possessed were destroyed. The Necrontyr then built smaller ones which could only contain so much of the C'Tan's essences.
Think of it like this. Say you have a big pitcher of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being. That big pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being then decides to start devouring your city.
You think "Well, if its power comes from it being all together...why not separate it?".
Et voila. You no longer have a pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being--but rather multiple small cups which can still do miraculous things but can't do the things it used to because of its power being diffused.
You are aware that what happened in Dawn of War and what you just described/what is in the new codex are basically the same thing right?
They could project a small portion of their consciousness, their power, into a smaller, less "capable" shell and their servants make use of them to wage war, rather than use the entire essence of a C'tan. That's not so different is it? And it was done without the Deceiver suddenly becoming a moron by handing the Silent King the controls to the Necron legions (Yes I am reading the codex right now).
There's a very, very big difference actually.
The one that happened in Dawn of War was a C'Tan "possessing" a Necron Lord.
The description for now about the C'Tan "Shards" is more akin to the Eldar Avatar or a Wraithlord--an inanimate, inorganic structure which is built specifically to contain the essence of a certain being.
In the C'Tan case, does it say whether it's permanent or not?
Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.
Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.
It's difficult to take you seriously when you spew your own opinion as a fact while discounting others without contributing anything.
It's also difficult to take people seriously when they continually try to use the fact that X author wrote X Codex as an example of why it's "bad fluff".
This isn't a novel. There is not one person writing it.
Also, deus ex machina? Now they could, with the press of a button, annihilate Terra on a whim. Lol.
You mean like they couldn't before, what with them landing a ship on Mars?
New slow ships. Well it seems that the necrons have lost a lot of there teeth. It's not really a bad thing. Though I guess it opens the door for all kinds of arguments now that necrons don't seem to have there necrons win button anymore.
The codex mentions Ka'mais? I wonder how that story would change under the new fluff.
Please people, everytime a codex comes out you whine like babies. OMG THEY NERFED THE NECRONS!
Before they were slumbering and raiding. Now they have empires and vast armies. The army had no personality before.
BUT THE 4 C´tan of witch only two had barly fluff got personality.
WRONG. They were just Khorne and Tzeentch fooling around.
What you're also not mentioning is that they were "formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe" and somehow were the antithesis of the Old Ones who were creating and seeding said universe.
Er, what?
I'm not sure what you are really saying. You seem to be under the impression that the Old Ones were creating the universe...? The C'tan predate the Old Ones by millenia, the Old Ones were merely one of if not the first space-faring race in the galaxy. They dabbled extensively in genetic engineering that allowed them to control the paths evolution could take and effectively create life. I'm not really sure what your complaint is here.
They also weren't "compressed". They were trapped by the Necrontyr.
Compressed is the exact term used, in the old codex. The new codex also sees them clad in necrodermis, far before they were enslaved. Once more, not sure what you are saying.
It's also bizarre that for some reason they went from "feeding upon stars" to "feeding upon organic lifeforms".
Stars provided more energy, yes, but the organic lifeforms were more flavourful, finding sustenance in the myriad emotions they could taste as they fed.
There's a very, very big difference actually.
The one that happened in Dawn of War was a C'Tan "possessing" a Necron Lord.
Right. Aka a smaller shell of necrodermis.
The description for now about the C'Tan "Shards" is more akin to the Eldar Avatar or a Wraithlord--an inanimate, inorganic structure which is built specifically to contain the essence of a certain being.
If you take issue with the Lord being the shell provided, they could easily make smaller shells to house a measure of the power of them, to use in the field.
In the C'Tan case, does it say whether it's permanent or not?
I'm not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?
It's also difficult to take people seriously when they continually try to use the fact that X author wrote X Codex as an example of why it's "bad fluff".
This isn't a novel. There is not one person writing it.
Fair enough, I posted before I saw your post indicating you were referring to Coa. I'd agree with you then. Sorry about that.
You mean like they couldn't before, what with them landing a ship on Mars?
A ship that got promptly blown to bits.
Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.
Void__Dragon wrote:Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.
Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(
Space Crusader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g&list=FLCklzMUO72gX11xlRFe4O7Q&index=4&feature=plpp_video
Please people, everytime a codex comes out you whine like babies. OMG THEY NERFED THE NECRONS!
Before they were slumbering and raiding. Now they have empires and vast armies. The army had no personality before.
BUT THE 4 C´tan of witch only two had barly fluff got personality.
WRONG. They were just Khorne and Tzeentch fooling around.
The codex didn't emphasize the uniqueness among differing Lords like it should of, but that doesn't justify a purge of what came before.
The Nightbringer isn't anything like Khorne. Khorne desires killing, Nightbringer advocates suffering, which Khorne heavily frowns upon, since it prolongs what could be a good kill.
The Deceiver is as similar to Tzeentch as Cegorach is. Which is to say superficially.
Void__Dragon wrote:Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.
Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(
Given that almost everything in the 40K universe seems to operate on a millennial scale, that would actually be a pretty big threat, and also more or less guarantees that the Imperium is doomed to be destroyed-- but that seems to be what all the fans want, so what do I know?
Mr Morden wrote:Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(
One could interpret it like that.
The Celestial Orrery is stated simply to make a star go supernova millenia before it would naturally, bringing "fiery oblivion to all nearby worlds."
I personally read it to believe that it destroys it instantly, since it goes on to speak of the consequences and how only further manipulation of the Celestial Orrery can re-align the cosmos, admittedly over a time period of thousands of years of micromanagement. I'm not exactly sure what this thing is supposed to be use for, upon further reading.
At the very least, it admits that the Necrons who tend it do so with restraint. But others are not so respectful of that restraint, and are attempting to usurp the Necrons there to use it as a weapon. Specifically the Oruscar Dynasty (Words can't express how much I hate that term).
Hi, new to the forum, lurked the place for a good few months now. Just thought I'd register to query something I just spotted in the thread that I'd never heard before.
Kanluwen wrote:The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.
Where has this ever been mentioned? I'm not sure what exactly The Outsider's motive would be for this but I'd be interested in hearing what other people have speculated and where any evidence has been hinted at since I've never heard that theory before.
The brutal truth is that people are simply whining that it's no longer the old fluff, which mostly was disregarded seemingly due to the fact that people thought that Necrons were an entire race of robots.
While it sucks for those who liked the old fluff--it also sucks for those of us who are going to be reading these threads which consist of no actual, substantive critiques beyond individuals like Iracundus and instead we get Brother Coa styled posts.
The Dragon was a joke anyways. All he's really accomplished is a dogmatic schism within the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Poor Kan. Someone holds a gun to his head so he has to read "these" threads.
Could you imagine its possible to use actual substance of the actual codex to reply in such thread?
The non lethal truth is, Necrons never were robots.
Dropping the story arc from codices and the HH series makes no sense at all.
Mr Morden wrote:Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(
One could interpret it like that.
The Celestial Orrery is stated simply to make a star go supernova millenia before it would naturally, bringing "fiery oblivion to all nearby worlds."
I personally read it to believe that it destroys it instantly, since it goes on to speak of the consequences and how only further manipulation of the Celestial Orrery can re-align the cosmos, admittedly over a time period of thousands of years of micromanagement. I'm not exactly sure what this thing is supposed to be use for, upon further reading.
At the very least, it admits that the Necrons who tend it do so with restraint. But others are not so respectful of that restraint, and are attempting to usurp the Necrons there to use it as a weapon. Specifically the Oruscar Dynasty (Words can't express how much I hate that term).
From what I have read, the Oruscar Dynasty is seeking to prevent this from happening, and therefore protect the Orrery.
To be fair, "unmentioned" does not necessarily mean "dropped" especially in the Void Dragon's case. He was barely mentioned as it was, excepting Gav Thorpe's Mechanicum book and a few vague references elsewhere.
And 1hadhq: that was exactly the point I was making. There are people complaining that Necrons are "no longer mindless robots". Their entire race never has been--just the Warriors.
We've had Immortals fleshed out now, no longer are they simply the "favored of the C'Tan"--they now are the actual soldiery of the Necrontyr, placed in bodies designed for them to keep going with what they did in life. Flayed Ones, Destroyers, et al have all been fleshed out more.
Things being fleshed out is not necessarily a bad way to go.
Kanluwen wrote:To be fair, "unmentioned" does not necessarily mean "dropped" especially in the Void Dragon's case. He was barely mentioned as it was, excepting Gav Thorpe's Mechanicum book and a few vague references elsewhere.
I would like to believe he'd at least get a mention considering the radical changes to the fluff of the C'tan. Like "Oh but this Dragon dude is whole and still sleeps" or confirmation it's been shattered, whatever.
We've had Immortals fleshed out now, no longer are they simply the "favored of the C'Tan"--they now are the actual soldiery of the Necrontyr, placed in bodies designed for them to keep going with what they did in life. Flayed Ones, Destroyers, et al have all been fleshed out more.
Things being fleshed out is not necessarily a bad way to go.
While I don't condone the mindless tossing about of the word "nihilism" concerning Destroyers, I have no issue with some of the fleshing out of Immortals, Flayed Ones (Although I preferred Fall of Damnos' supposed fluff on it), or Destroyers. For the most part, fleshing them out has been fairly solidly done, IMO.
Kanluwen wrote:The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.
Can you point to this wink and nod? Because all I ever found was Necron players trying to make the Outsider relevant. The theory doesn't work at its most basic level - the Hive Mind is a psychic 'entity' that manifests at least part of itself in the Warp. The C'tan are not only not psychic, but the Warp is, you know, pretty harmful to them.
Blood_Raven wrote:6th edition Tyranids will state they just want hugs but their claws end up ripping things to shreds by accident. They love you really.
Kanluwen wrote:The "Fall of Damnos" fluff for the Flayed Ones' "disease" is seemingly written with the fluff from the Newcron book in mind.
Heck, there's even what amounts to the fluff about Praetorians creating "cults" devoted to the C'Tan in "Dead Men Walking".
Admittedly I haven't gotten around to reading the book, so I may of been misinformed, but I was under the impression that it was more that they missed their fleshy bodies supar badly and as such wear the skin of enemies. Now that the underlying goal of all Necrons (Sans Destroyers) seems to be to, you know, get bodies, and the Flayed Ones' disease seems to be being cursed to have the same insane hunger of the C'tan, and being unable to satiate it.
Haven't read Dead Men Walking either. I can't even find it on scribd, like I did Fall of Damnos, for some annoying reason.
Also, I never bought into the "theory" that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, it makes no sense, for all the reasons Loki said and more.
If you don't buy into the theory that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, you don't buy into the C'Tan and Necrontyr creating the Pariah Gene in humanity.
Just sayin'. Pariahs are/were psychically charged beings, even if they do damage the Warp entities near them.
And quite frankly..."Dead Men Walking" was kind of a surprise good read for me. The author is one I'm not usually a fan of, but he did a good job emphasizing the fact that the humans were actually more terrified of the Death Korps than the Necrons.
Why? They assumed the Necrons were simple machines.
They knew the Death Korps were humans underneath the masks. Many of them were teenagers, no less marching completely and utterly unresisting to their deaths.
As for the Flayed One bit--the skin part is part of the curse that they were subjected to from what I can tell.
Kanluwen wrote:If you don't buy into the theory that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, you don't buy into the C'Tan and Necrontyr creating the Pariah Gene in humanity.
Just sayin'. Pariahs are/were psychically charged beings, even if they do damage the Warp entities near them.
Why is that?
Since you are the first person to say Pariahs were psychically charged beings, that I have heard.
As for the Flayed One bit--the skin part is part of the curse that they were subjected to from what I can tell.
Kanluwen wrote:Pariahs, whilst registering negatively within the Warp...still register within the Warp.
Same with the Pylons that we see on Cadia, which are reputedly of Necrontyr make.
Again, what are you basing this on?
"Untouchables are individuals who have no warp signature."
This is from the Dark Heresy core rulebook.
No other Pariah/Blank source I can recall says they register in the Warp, or have a Warp signature. Rather, they negatively affect the Warp's attempts to encroach into the Materium, be it through psykers or daemons, whatever.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm going off the fact that Pariahs != Untouchables, for the most part.
Pariahs do register within the Warp, but not so much as you think. They register as a 'Blank' where the Warp cannot exist.
Hence why they're more popularly called "Blanks".
Yet peculiarly, in every source I have seen, Blanks/Untouchables are referred to as having the Pariah Gene. Such as for instance Eisenhorn, or Prospero Burns.
Not to mention, in the Necron codex, Pariahs are explicitly noted to be capable of "blotting out psychic emanations". Like a Blank.
They are also completely soulless, which means you don't have a Warp presence.
What is your source for suggesting that Pariahs don't have a Warp presence?
Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm going off the fact that Pariahs != Untouchables, for the most part.
Pariahs do register within the Warp, but not so much as you think. They register as a 'Blank' where the Warp cannot exist.
Hence why they're more popularly called "Blanks".
Yet peculiarly, in every source I have seen, Blanks/Untouchables are referred to as having the Pariah Gene. Such as for instance Eisenhorn, or Prospero Burns.
Not to mention, in the Necron codex, Pariahs are explicitly noted to be capable of "blotting out psychic emanations". Like a Blank.
They are also completely soulless, which means you don't have a Warp presence.
What is your source for suggesting that Pariahs don't have a Warp presence?
You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
StormForged wrote:Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
Kanluwen wrote:You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
I'm not getting your logic.
They can feth up Warp-related beings, we know that. That doesn't mean they have a Warp presence, or were created through psychic means. The notion that the completely immaterial can interact and harm the material, but the completely material can't do the opposite, comes off as ridiculous to me. As such, I can easily believe that a C'tan could create something which can dampen or harm the Immaterium, while also not believing something explicitly described as a massively powerful psychic presence and a being that is inherently anti-psychic are the same thing.
I'd agree they aren't "the same," in that Pariahs as a rule seem to be more powerful.
Though to be honest, this is an aspect of 40k fluff I'm not entirely sure on myself, since I can't recall a source that details the difference between a Blank or a Pariah.
StormForged wrote:Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's one of the small stories in the Necron Codex. It even has the part where the Marshal is screaming in fury as he tumbles off the cliff.
nomotog wrote:Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's some of the fluff concerning Imotekh, who is the "main" Necron Overlord in the codex (Which I have finished). He's renowned as being possibly the greatest strategist the galaxy has ever seen, and bested Helbrecht in martial combat, but spared his life.
Kanluwen wrote:You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
I'm not getting your logic.
They can feth up Warp-related beings, we know that. That doesn't mean they have a Warp presence, or were created through psychic means. The notion that the completely immaterial can interact and harm the material, but the completely material can't do the opposite, comes off as ridiculous to me. As such, I can easily believe that a C'tan could create something which can dampen or harm the Immaterium, while also not believing something explicitly described as a massively powerful psychic presence and a being that is inherently anti-psychic are the same thing.
I'd agree they aren't "the same," in that Pariahs as a rule seem to be more powerful.
Though to be honest, this is an aspect of 40k fluff I'm not entirely sure on myself, since I can't recall a source that details the difference between a Blank or a Pariah.
Basically: Blanks have a lesser effect upon psykers than Pariahs do.
And the reason I used the Pariah example in regards to the Hive Mind/Outsider bit is a simple one. While you might think it's a tad strange...think about it like this.
What better way to feth up the Immaterium than to use something like the Tyranid Hive Fleets, which generate a 'Shadow' disrupting the Immaterium.
The whole fleet thing... I'm ignoring Matt Ward and Co.'s slaughter of that. Necrons have FTL travel and the ability to teleport across the galaxy and if you say else wise then, "LALALALALALALALALALALA!!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
Maybe if we all group together and agree that Necron webway travel doesn't exist and that they only use FTL travel and other awesome non warp based modes of travel....
Also I'm hoping that the Void Dragon is an uber shard stuck on Mars.
As for the Outsider, I could see him now being a collection of shards merging into one new uber C'tan bent on revenge and the decimation/complete and utter serivtude of the Galaxy to him. Galaxy watch out!
And let the Deceiver shards continue to make everyone to have a bad day
Sounds like this could really put the kaibosh on Relic's plans for Dawn of War III, since Taldeer's knowledge of the Necron tomb worlds seemed to play into a larger plot (I think fan consensus was that the canon ending of Retribution would be an amalgamation of the Space Marine, Imperial Guard, and Eldar storylines).
looking back over the first Necron Codex, it looks like the 'Crons didn't have anything approaching FTL until after they made deals with the C'tan. If the FTL is provided by the C'Tan there might be reasons why they avoid using it much (the same reasons they are leery of employing the SHards in general and prefer to have them stuffed in pocket dimensions.)
There could be any number of problems as well with normal necron FTL that the webway access wouldn't have - it might not be as fast, it might require line of sight or a point to point connection, it might require specific conditions to work, etc.
It's not as if webway travel is perfectly safe either. That's kinda the problem, theres far more we dont know and not much we do. at least pre 5th edition.
I was reading over the fluff and after the first 10 pages or so, I just had to stop. I couldn't stand the over use of the words "millions" and "billions", I mean how many Necrons were there to begin with? From what the codex says there has to be at least a trillion or so of them, with lines like "they are losing millions of Necrons to malfunctioning Tomb Worlds, stars going super nova, and collapsing planets."
I just can't stand when writers just start over using words like that. And along those lines, why did the Silent King choose to sleep for "60 million years?" Isn't that just a tad over kill? Did he know something no one else knew? Or did he just pull up a random number generator and went with it?
I don't know, I'm still iffy on the fluff. I just have to try and get past the insane exaggerations.
Well its not inconceivable that there are trillions of necrons to begin with.
Our planet has what, 7 billion people on it? Hive worlds of the imperium have upwards of 20-30 billion people on it... if necron capital worlds had the same number of people as imperial hive worlds, then sure, its not hard to imagine a couple dozen capital worlds + other planets might hold a trillion necrons between them.
And yea, it seems odd to sleep for 60 million years... but the necrons are deathless. He probably imagined that the necrons would pass from an enemy race of the eldar, into a legend forgotten by almost everyone, until they can rise again and slowly retake their empire in secrecy.
You also can't know that 60 million years isn't a nice, round, even measurement of time in a necron calendar. Perhaps its the equivalent of 1 "eon" or some other strange necron measurement of time.
So, Mat Ward managed to not only wreck Pariahs and C'tan but also the Necron ships in Battlefleet Gothic.... Good that GW doesn't update them anymore, otherwise they would lose their speed boost. I'm just going to ignore that. Do Necrons still teleport back home when they are destroyed? Or are they just programs that can be uploaded into a new body? Otherwise they would be doomed worse than the Eldar after completely losing the ability to procreate....
Ok, I have read new Necron codex and I will now present my personal opinion on it.
WARNING, the following text contains HUGE spoiler so if anyone didn't read new Necron fluff yet do not read it.
Spoiler:
Things that rock:
-Necrons are bad ass now. They are no more brain-dead zombie robots ( at least not all of them ). They have society, hierarchy, emotions and individuality. Not that only they have all that they also wiped out the Old Ones and then the C'Tan when they realised what the C'Tan did to them. Badass.
-Silent King, the most badass of them all. The one who said "Yes" to the C'Tan proposal and who was the only sentient Necron in War in the Haven. The one who, after they defeated the Old Ones, told the C'Tan to feth themselves and turn ENTIRE Necron race against them and destroyed them in thousands of tiny peaces. But, the main reason why I like him is because when he saw the last of the Tomb world go into hibernation he destroyed the device that was gicen to him to control entire Necron race, thus returning them their individuality and personality. Badass
-Tomb World of Sarkon - The Borg of the 41'st millennium. Because of the radiation storms for over 60 million years all individuality and personality in Necron bodies dissapeared, thus living entire tomb world full of brain-dead robotic bodies. In the show then comes Tomb Complex master program not only took control of their bodies, he went to the neares Tomb world, erase all personality and individualism from those bodies to and took them under control. Now, the master control is even capturing living creatures and taking them under his control by using mindshackle scarabs. "We are the Sarkon, all you technological and biological marvel will belong to us. Resistance is futile". Badass Borgs.
-Thaszar the Invincible - He got exiled and when his Tomb World was in hibernation he returned and erased his out casting from memory of all the Necrons and planted them idea that he is thei leader and King. Profit.
-Nepthk - he trolled the Orks who were just seconds from smashing his Tomb World by offering him several doomsday cannon in exchange for Orks letting them alone. When the Orks attacked new world Eden Prime ( Mass Effect revelation anyone? ) the Warboss activated doomsday weapon which overloaded and blow the Orks and a planet into tiny little bits of matter. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO.......
-The siege of Somonor and escape from Cano'var - Necrons shows their honor here and let and Eldar Farseer, Eldar Pathfinder and White Scars Space Marine Khan to leave the Tomb World unharmed and well.
-Fall of Hypnoth - Necrons were able to defeat not 1 but 2 Space Marine chapters here, showing their ferocity in battle.
-Lychguard, they have shield that makes them not only being able to survive powerful shot, but also to point out energy of that shot to nearest enemy unit.
-C'Tan shard special ability "Lord of Fire" - All flameers and melta guns explode on 1 ( just like Plasma Weapons ), SoB players will LOVE this...
-Trazyn the infinite - not only that he is collecting history, he is also an gentlemen. Once a Lady Inquisitor raided his museum, without success. She then send 3 Catachan Regiments to destroy him. He reply to her by thanking her for sending those Guardsman because he needed to fill out an exhibit and in return he send to her a Necron artifact as a gift. Isn't taht nice?
-Eldar are awesome, Necrons are scared of them more than anything else. They even fight in such valor that even the Space Marines would honor them.
-Tyranids are awesome, being able to worry even the Silent King.
-Black Tempalrs are epic-uber awesome. Helbrecht get owned by Imotekh who sever his right hand to "let him remind it of this battle" and toss him in the bottomless pit. 55 years later Helbrecht and his Black Tempalrs find Imotekh and his capital ship and kick his ass so hard that Imotekh run like little girl by teleporting on one of the escort vessels and run like hell. Even if Marshal Helbrecht was in rigteous rage and fury he finished his revenge by slaming Imotekh capital ship "Inevitable Conqueror" into the star and blowing upo any Necron ship that was to slow to escape Black Templar fleet. UBER -MEGA BADASS!!!
-Orikan the Diviner - he can see future ( wow ). He once seen that Imperial Navy dockworld of Helios VI had to fall to the Orks so that his NEcron Dynasty could expand. He then return to the past and attack Silver Sculls 4'th company who helped in the original world defense. He nearly wiped them out there and as a result the world fell to the Orks witch was later exterminated by Orikan Necrons. But as law of physic said: "every action has it's opposite reaction" as Silver Skulls return to that sector with some buddies ( Death Specters, Howling Griffons and 3 other Space Marine Chapters ) and totally destroyed his Tomb World in Lazar system. Great FAIL for a Necron who can see the future.
Things that sucked: ( note that this is in my opinion so every debate is welcome )
-Necrons defeated the C'Tan and still have billions of solders alive and well + captured C'Tan shards but then they became afraid of the Eldar and went to sleep to avoid their wrath. Now the Eldar are the greatest of their foes? Nice turnout but for a race that is on a brink of extinction to much...
-Thanatos and the Celestial Orrery - Necrons are because of this the most powerful race in the galaxy. Inside this planet is a device that represent map of Milky Way galaxy with all stars in it. The stars are represented as a glowing light, when you "snuff" one of this light that star in real world will go supernova and wreck everything in it's path. Necrons can now easily stop an entire Tyranid race by blowing up stars in systems that Hive Fleets are present. They can also destroy Imperium, Tau empire and every other major galactic race by blowing up stars in their major Star systems. Totaly stupid and OP.
-Tyranids are much, much stronger according to Silent King who is afraid of younger races feeding them to a point were even the Necrons at their full power couldn't defeat them. The fact that Tyranids strike fear into Silent King, the ma... Necron who destroyed the C'Tan is a.... never mind.
-C'Tan are not gods, not really. They are now super-advanced race who is using life force of a star and living beings to feed their technology and bodies. They have enormous ships that can create black holes and that can transform entire race into legion of unstoppable robots. Yet, they were defeated by the Old Ones who only had webway for their advantage and later Necrons who are their sevants.Massive fail for the C'Tan.
-Necrons do not have their massive, uber powerful, "in a blink on the other side of the galaxy" shps. They use their old ships from a time when they first colonise stars, ships that are in fact stasis and who need a LOT of years to reach nearby planet. Looks like the Tau got a friend in FTL tech here
-Imperial Fist are again massacred, this time 3 entire companies ( 300 marines ) get slaughtered at Uttu Prime by Necrons.
-The incident in Blood Angel codex is now known as "Alliance at Devil's Crag", witch means that Necrons DID ally with Blood Angels to defeat Tyranids. ( thus proving some people here wrong )
-Imotech, even if he is great tactician and leader is doomed to fall in the future because his dynasty have come to attention of Ultramarines ( notable Marneus Calgar ), Ilyanden Eldar, Tyranid Hive Fleet and Tau Empire. His dynasty will come in contact with all of them in short time and then he will have war with several factions at the same time.
-The fact that Tryzan have a giant man clad in baroque power armor that many people hinted as one of the missing Primarchs of the Emperor.
Note again that this is in my humble opinion and every debate on my points is open, so try not to insult or start a fight.
Brother Coa, I don't know if it's a Tranlsation diffrence between our books, but mine never says anything about super advanced shipts for the C'tan.
It says "called into being by the reality warping powers of the C'tan" for all the Black holes and what not. They really are still Gods, and the fact is Trillions of Necrons were destroyed, Just to shatter the C'tan. I think they are Gods in every sense of the Word. The C'tan are still the most powerful beings to step foot in the Galaxy.
Their ships are mentioned on the original Necrontyr worlds, the C'Tan used them to transfer Necrons in what they are now. My assumption is that they also use that ships to deliver Necrons to other worlds faster and to make this "black holes". But that is just my assumption now, I could be wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And one more thing, I am disappointed how they use a lot of old pictures instead of drawing new ones.
Brother Coa wrote:Their ships are mentioned on the original Necrontyr worlds, the C'Tan used them to transfer Necrons in what they are now. My assumption is that they also use that ships to deliver Necrons to other worlds faster and to make this "black holes". But that is just my assumption now, I could be wrong.
My Book says nothing about Ships, transforming the Necrontyr into what they are. Mine just says they used "Bio-Furances" to do the transfer. In addition, I just provided you with the quote from my book, about the black holes. I'll the entire quote.
"Planets were razed, suns extinguished and whole systems devoured by black holes called into being by the reality warping powers of the Star Gods" There is nothing about this being caused by Ships, but instead by the Godly powers of the C'tan.
Necrons are pathetic.
Before, they were some of the coolest races in the game- soulless metal skeletons, commanded by the C'tan to harvest all life for them. They were scary, unrelenting and absolutely awesome.
Now?
Weak BA-friends..
And now, necrons have strong personalities, and shattered the C'tan. This is my reaction.
nomotog wrote:Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's some of the fluff concerning Imotekh, who is the "main" Necron Overlord in the codex (Which I have finished). He's renowned as being possibly the greatest strategist the galaxy has ever seen, and bested Helbrecht in martial combat, but spared his life.
Breathing new life into the Necron codex was very much needed. Game mechanics aside, there was just too much mystery and unknown for a race that was eleventy trillion years old. They needed to be more then just T-100 killing life.
I grade the execution as a F-.
I think Ward drinks while he writes. Every time things start out good and as he gets drunk, the fluff turns to crap by leaps and bounds. Just too many times when an idea is presented it could be great as it stands, but then it doubles, triples, quaddruples into crap. The star map crap, reminiscent of the GK little black box.
Ward doesn't takes things one step too far, he takes things a running leap off of a giant cliff. Explaining the nobility lines and such of the Necrons. Good. Spiraling into pages and pages of the crap from the top to the lowly bottom, both with the units but also the tomb worlds and blah and blah, and BLAH!
Seriously, the guy needs to learn when to put down the pen.
I think it's a little silly to say that attention to detail is a terrible thing. And really the codex didn't go that in depth into Necron hierarchy, I mean we don't really know all the different titles and and their ranks, though the codex did say sometimes titles and ranks are just created on the whim and fancy of the Lords.
I mean compare it to SM and other factions, we know all about the 100 extra organs SM's have, the exact compisition of different companies, how Warp travel works, the components to a Titan's weaponry, and so on. All sci-fi universes have their version of the "Star Trek Technical Manual" because attention to all the little things is what fans of the genre want.
Also emphasis on the Necron higher ups is a good thing because that's where all the sentience and personality exists so it should be focussed on.
necrons are now gayrons!
thank you for listening to another Matt Ward sucks 
rant 
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