Brother Coa wrote:I hate you. You are the reason Tau are being hated.

Brother Coa wrote:And they call me a troll

Nuff said

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Pulse Rifle > Lasgun
Battlesuit > Space Marine
Fire Warrior > Guardsmen

Pulse Rifle simply has greater range. Both the PR and Lasgun are equally lethal.

Power Armor is equally strong to that of Battlesuit armor. Terminator and Artificer armor is superior. This is reflected in the TT stats.

Fire Warriors might have an edge on Guardsmen if the fight is fair numbers-wise. If the Guardsmen have numbers they're going to win. Likewise if the Guardsmen get into CC. Firewarriors must keep and press the advantage of ranged warfare.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Most people I talk to say that the numbers for the Imperium at Armageddon were ridiculously low.

They can say as they want, it doesn't change the age of that fluff , which had 2 still equal forces fighting over a map with just a few cities upon.
The take of GW on numbers isn't same nowadays. When armageddon was codified, there were less "billions" and "trillions" thrown around like there is no tomorrow.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
The Achilus Crusade number of 6 billion troops are actually very believable seeing as the Achilus Crusade is not for one planet but multiple solar systems and planets. The Achilus Crusade started with a billion troops, similar to the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, which due to the number of foes the crusade is facing was increased until it became 6 billion.

No doubt in the age of endless hordes of IG and the map of recrutement centres ( BRB p 138 ) showing tithes of 5 - 50.000.000 per anno,
this size isn't impossible. Any chance to post the size of the opposing forces?

The "achilus crusade" is a 3rd party production, yes?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Yes, so what?

Just interested in confirmation.

Let's dial it down a bit, folks. Thanks.

Personally, I love the idea of Chaos Tau. Not because I like Chaos, not because I like Tau, but because I LOVE the idea of CHAOS POPE! Seriously, that would be the best character ever.

Woops wrong thread. That's what I get for seeing the word "Tau" and making an assumption. Please see the "Chaos Tau" thread for this exact same comment.

All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

And you Tau fanboys dare to act like victims while spewing crap like this at the same time.

I didn't cry hard, I didn't cray at all, troll.

We don't know who won the IHC troll . I pray that the Tau lose just so I can gloat and drink in your delicious impotent tears .

Suffer Not The Tau To Live!!!!

No troll, its Tau<Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids and Chaos.

@1haq

I'll answer your post later. I don't have time right now.>

Oh those wacky tau. Getting everybody all mad and calling each other troll.

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing.

T'au are a lot more streamlined than the Imperium, and as has been pointed out before while there technology is not superior, they actually use their high technology in combat- whereas the imperial guard tech is primiary focused on cheapness of production. This gives T'au a local technological advantage against Imperial Guard forces. Of course it also means that a T'au force has more valuable equipment than a Guard force. Losing an entire company of las guns and infantry for the Guard is no big deal, its probably a big deal for the T'au.

Also as has been said earlier, the its about as likely that the Imperium will overcome administrative burdens and actually be able to devote as much of its beleagured forces as it would need to stomp out the tau-

As it is unlikey that T'au will develop the tech and more importantly the sheer numbers to take and hold the worlds upon worlds held by the Imperium. Even if they do pull that off, they still would be slowed by the rest of the obnoxious forces in the game. I'll bet the Imperium would gladly let the T'au hold the eye of terror if they thought the little blue guys could do it.

^T'au is a planet. Tau is the race. Just, for clarification.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

This is trolling beef. It doesn't serve the Greater Good to get into shouting matches. Please use reason and logic to support claims that can be substantiated. I appreciate your fervor for the Greater Good; however, it would be better served with a cool and reasonable discussion, instead of devolving into over emotional drivel.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

And you Tau fanboys dare to act like victims while spewing crap like this at the same time.

I didn't cry hard, I didn't cray at all, troll.

We don't know who won the IHC troll . I pray that the Tau lose just so I can gloat and drink in your delicious impotent tears .

Suffer Not The Tau To Live!!!!


No troll, its Tau<Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks and Chaos.

@1haq

I'll answer your post later. I don't have time right now.>

Dont forget 'nids

But yes it always ends up with a locked thread when BCS comes into the picture...........

You guys need to stop getting worked up. Beefcake is clearly trolling to get a rise out of you all.

Imperium and Forces of Chaos are probably the two most powerful forces in the Galaxy. Orks are a persistent threat. Think of them as mold or a virus. They'll never be completely wiped out. They deserve their own status apart from the traditional "power" other races hold.

Followed closely would be the Necrons and Tyranids. Lastly you have Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar. Tau have amazing momentum and technology but will not be considered a Galactic threat until they are able to utilize the warp somehow. Eldar are no longer a threat but rather a potent fighting force should another army have to cross their path. Same as Dark Eldar, they are all dying slowly, but they are incredibly lethal once confronted.

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

The persistent threats:
Orks
Necrons
Tyranids

The lethal "if encountered":
Tau
Eldar
Dark Eldar

IronSnake wrote:You guys need to stop getting worked up. Beefcake is clearly trolling to get a rise out of you all.

Imperium and Forces of Chaos are probably the two most powerful forces in the Galaxy. Orks are a persistent threat. Think of them as mold or a virus. They'll never be completely wiped out. They deserve their own status apart from the traditional "power" other races hold.

Followed closely would be the Necrons and Tyranids. Lastly you have Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar. Tau have amazing momentum and technology but will not be considered a Galactic threat until they are able to utilize the warp somehow. Eldar are no longer a threat but rather a potent fighting force should another army have to cross their path. Same as Dark Eldar, they are all dying slowly, but they are incredibly lethal once confronted.

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

The persistent threats:
Orks
Necrons
Tyranids

The lethal "if encountered":
Tau
Eldar
Dark Eldar

I would move Tyranid to the top of persistent threats, orks are fighting each other and Tyranid so are distracted from everyone else, necrons only bother you if you show up on their doorstep. Maybe even the third brute? Every race has had to deal with the Tyranid and are equally concerned with them. So maybe this;

Big Players:
IoM
Tyranid
Chaos (Chaos is currently stuck like the Tau.)

Persistant:
Orks
Eldar
Necrons

minor:
Tau
Dark Eldar

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

Tell me once that the tyranid adapted to the ammunition of any other race and were thereafter unaffected by it. Emperor save the tau if this happens with a major fleet and not just a splinter..... and we all know that he wont save them.

The Orks are galactic STDs.

I agree, Sir Monty. Tyranids have definitely been portrayed recently as a very BIG player in the larger galactic scheme. I didn't rank them in any particular order. Just wanted to segregate into 3 major categories.

1hadhq wrote:
They can say as they want, it doesn't change the age of that fluff , which had 2 still equal forces fighting over a map with just a few cities upon.
The take of GW on numbers isn't same nowadays. When armageddon was codified, there were less "billions" and "trillions" thrown around like there is no tomorrow.

Is their a problem with the 40k armies to field armies in the billions? The 40k factions outside of Eldar, Dark Eldar or Tau are galactic scale factions and thus billions are just chump change.

No doubt in the age of endless hordes of IG and the map of recrutement centres ( BRB p 138 ) showing tithes of 5 - 50.000.000 per anno,
this size isn't impossible. Any chance to post the size of the opposing forces?

The estimated population of the Imperium is in the quadrillions, 6 billion is chump change. The Imperium has the ship numbers to transport them as per this:


I don't have exact numbers of what the Imperium is facing but this is in-universe action not TT so no two armies having equal numbers. The Imperium's crusade is fighting against Chaos, Tyranids, Tau and Rebels.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
Dont forget 'nids

Sorry, I just forgot. I'll edit it.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
I would move Tyranid to the top of persistent threats, orks are fighting each other and Tyranid so are distracted from everyone else, necrons only bother you if you show up on their doorstep. Maybe even the third brute? Every race has had to deal with the Tyranid and are equally concerned with them. So maybe this;

Big Players:
IoM
Tyranid
Chaos (Chaos is currently stuck like the Tau.)

Persistant:
Orks
Eldar
Necrons

minor:
Tau
Dark Eldar

I agree on this ranking.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

IronSnake wrote:

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

Why brute? It should be Big players.

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

It is my understanding that Shadowsun and her forces were able to defeat the splinter fleet in space combat using their superior technology to take out tyranid ships at range, ultimately denying them a foothold on planets. This would be considered a rare event seeing as most conflicts result in ground warfare which are extremely messy. Doubly so for the Tau seeing as they lack CC skills.


Reznov: I consider them 'brutes' in the sense that they can impose their will on other forces... at will. More or less. And when they do, they typically win.

Ah, i see that i missed Reznov's initial question from where i have the crusade's numbers.
They can be seen at p.28. The report there mentions that the crusade started with 1 billion soldiers within the frontline regiments which represented a mere 20% of the crusade's
total commitment. The crusade's minimum size at it's start is then, of course, 5 billion people ( if i wrote 6 billion people then i must have had it mixed up with the later number ).
The argument that rebel activity helped to stall the initial crusade is quite right. Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

The same report at p.28 mentions that, after the rise of Dagon and the Stigmartus, there are now 6 billion imperial soldiers serving in frontline regiments, which once again represent 20% of
the crusade's strenght. The entire crusade therefore numbers at least 30 billion people.
While Ebongrave is currently expected to hold the imperial worlds within the Canis Salient he also fights a brutal war against the Tau Empire at the Greyhell front:
"The worlds of the Canis Salient largely pacified, Ebongravefocused all of his efforts on the worlds within the Greyhell Front,feeding regiment after regiment into the wars there in an effortto draw the Tau into a war of attrition they could not possibly win."p.102.
So far Ebongrave has been unsucessful. In fact: "Both sides continue to feedmassed armies into the Greyhell Front, whilst casting a waryeye towards the spinward voids, fearful of what horrors mayyet descend from the depths of interstellar space to consume allthat lies in its path." p.102

Regarding the old GW numbers, they were downright idiotic. The smallest Imperial Hiveworld i have found, Scintilla, still has 25 billion inhabitants. Scintilla, just like Armageddon, has only a few, densly populated cities. If we assume that at least 20% of the population can be mobilised ( roughly comparable to what nazi germany managed to mobilise ) then you will quickly notice that a few million orks are utterly insufficient to actualy conquer a Hiveworld.

IronSnake wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

It is my understanding that Shadowsun and her forces were able to defeat the splinter fleet in space combat using their superior technology to take out tyranid ships at range, ultimately denying them a foothold on planets. This would be considered a rare event seeing as most conflicts result in ground warfare which are extremely messy. Doubly so for the Tau seeing as they lack CC skills.

I have to say that the best way of beating Nids is by beating them is space but due to the Nids 'Shadow in the Warp', its not easy for the Imperium to concentrate the ships needed to destroy Nids ships.

Reznov: I consider them 'brutes' in the sense that they can impose their will on other forces... at will. More or less. And when they do, they typically win.

Okay, its just everyone tries to impose their will on other races and even n their own race so they're all brutes.

Tau are almost specialized to fight nids. They way there army is organized and the way there tech is gives then a very strong advantage when confronting nids.

Tau can mess up a nid fleet, but that same army can get messed up by a Imperal fleet. Then that imperial fleet can get messed up by that same nid fleet and the cycle starts a new.

Big players:

IoM
Necrons ( assuming unification )



Widespread temporary big players:

Chaos ( next ed? got nearly ignored in 5th )
Tyranid
Orks



Regional medium players:

Eldar
Tau
Dark Eldar

Jefffar wrote:

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

In space.
Necrons , Eldar and IN can destroy splinter fleets too.

We don't know the size of said splinter fleet, don't we? Tau don't get the size of the IoM nor the concept of chaos gods. A splinter fleet is maybe not as big as you think and all we have is a "armada" of Tau ships. "Armada" could hint on a noticable amount of vessels.
Its also character fluff and Shadowsun needed a boost.

nomotog wrote:Tau are almost specialized to fight nids. They way there army is organized and the way there tech is gives then a very strong advantage when confronting nids.

Tau can mess up a nid fleet, but that same army can get messed up by a Imperal fleet. Then that imperial fleet can get messed up by that same nid fleet and the cycle starts a new.

What?

Let me reiterate that the tyranid became IMMUNE to pulse rounds (or whatever they are called). I do not call that a specialty. Nor do I look at a flawless victory over a Tiny splinter making them Tyranid hunters. That title would most likely go to necrons. they dont give sustenance to the tyranid to create more of themselves, so every loss they suffer to necrons is just that, a loss. Not oh well we lost a trillion gaunts, well just remake them when we eat the planet. No the Tau do not specialize in combat with Tyranids, far from it.

Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

IronSnake wrote:Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

Except Necrons, unless that was retconned in the new 'dex. They get no biomass, and gauss weapons flay away their natural armour as if it wasn't there. Even if the Necrons are defeated, the Nids don't get any biomass, hence why they avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague.

I find it funny that the tau didnt think of this:
recruit psychic aliens with the navigator gene (thats main reason why they cant warp travel, no navigators, no way of safish navigated travel) and made them do the navigatory psychicness....
I could be an ethereal. I would be bawws at it (nooooooo)

Avatar 720 wrote:

IronSnake wrote:Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

Except Necrons, unless that was retconned in the new 'dex. They get no biomass, and gauss weapons flay away their natural armour as if it wasn't there. Even if the Necrons are defeated, the Nids don't get any biomass, hence why they avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague.

+1

Also +1 to the Clint Eastwood theme.

Also, in the end (specially imperium vs tau in this case) neither would win. Tau arent big enough to take them all on, and the imperium are too busy/lasy/poorly organised/ just no.

I mean, the only reason the Tau werent crushed in the Damcoles crusade was because the imperium left to fight somethin they viewed as more important (the nids first arrivals)

blood lance wrote:I find it funny that the tau didnt think of this:
recruit psychic aliens with the navigator gene (thats main reason why they cant warp travel, no navigators, no way of safish navigated travel) and made them do the navigatory psychicness....
I could be an ethereal. I would be bawws at it (nooooooo)

The navigator gene seems to be something that only a single breed of humans has. Since navigators seem to be generaly loyal to the Imperium of Man ( and why shouldn't they? navigators are basicaly treated like royalty ) there is little chance that the Tau will ever aquire sufficient numbers of them. For the moment they have to rely on their own drives. If they are lucky then they can improve then even further ( Merchant class cruisers reach 1/3 of normal warpspeed, it can be assume that even more modern ships have equaly powerful reactors ).

One other thing...I see the tau being treated the same way "noobs" are in an fps. They are relentlessly beaten up insulted and never given the oppurtunity/time of day/ general attention to actually do anything to make those haters shut up.
Haters gunan hate...but you know what else? Idiots gunna ignore.
Terrible bad pun thing I know.

Also: arent navigator genes found in more than just humans? the way that the fluuf writer goes a little out of their way to describe hwo the tau dont have this gene, they make it sound like everyone and their grandma (race wise) can have the gene.

KingDeath wrote:
The navigator gene seems to be something that only a single breed of humans has. Since navigators seem to be generaly loyal to the Imperium of Man ( and why shouldn't they? navigators are basicaly treated like royalty ) there is little chance that the Tau will ever aquire sufficient numbers of them. For the moment they have to rely on their own drives. If they are lucky then they can improve then even further ( Merchant class cruisers reach 1/3 of normal warpspeed, it can be assume that even more modern ships have equaly powerful reactors ).

Very true. Simply being psychic doesn't necessarily mean you can navigate the warp.

It's important to note that the 1/3 speed is for their fastest vessels. Normal or large vessels can achieve 1/5 speed.

Also, it is important to remember that the Tau warp drive only allows for short jumps whereas the Imperial drive can take you from one side of the galaxy to the other (Very dangerous if you exceed the Astronomican). The Tau can't stay 'in' warp speeds for extended periods. Rather, they have to make several jumps to go long distances.

KingDeath wrote:Ah, i see that i missed Reznov's initial question from where i have the crusade's numbers.
They can be seen at p.28. The report there mentions that the crusade started with 1 billion soldiers within the frontline regiments which represented a mere 20% of the crusade's
total commitment. The crusade's minimum size at it's start is then, of course, 5 billion people ( if i wrote 6 billion people then i must have had it mixed up with the later number ).
The argument that rebel activity helped to stall the initial crusade is quite right. Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

The same report at p.28 mentions that, after the rise of Dagon and the Stigmartus, there are now 6 billion imperial soldiers serving in frontline regiments, which once again represent 20% of
the crusade's strenght. The entire crusade therefore numbers at least 30 billion people.
While Ebongrave is currently expected to hold the imperial worlds within the Canis Salient he also fights a brutal war against the Tau Empire at the Greyhell front:
"The worlds of the Canis Salient largely pacified, Ebongravefocused all of his efforts on the worlds within the Greyhell Front,feeding regiment after regiment into the wars there in an effortto draw the Tau into a war of attrition they could not possibly win."p.102.
So far Ebongrave has been unsucessful. In fact: "Both sides continue to feedmassed armies into the Greyhell Front, whilst casting a waryeye towards the spinward voids, fearful of what horrors mayyet descend from the depths of interstellar space to consume allthat lies in its path." p.102

Okay thanks for the reply .I'll check out the math and my sources on this and will probably give you an answer on whether you're right or not by December 9.

Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

Funny you mention this . We do have humans who are also unhappy being under Tau rule and have actually formed terrorist groups to battle the Tau as mentioned in Deathwatch rpg: Rites of Battle or as mentioned in my thread a while back, human dissidents say that the Tau do 'bad things' . We also have the humans who, IIRC in the Achilus Assault, welcomed the Tau but when they realized that they were threatened by subjugation fought back against the Tau until they were conquered or that planet with whose humans are now slaves to the A.I who also fought against the Tau or that tribal world.



In the end, the humans of the Jericho Reach like neither the Tau or Imperium and would prefer to be independent from both. I truly find that hilarious .

1] From what I heard, the rebel groups that slow down the Imperium also fight each other cause we have Tau rebels vs Chaos rebels vs Genestealer rebels, is that right?

2] Again, from what I've heard. Most of the anti-tau and pro-Imperial feeling is due to Ebongrave's policies which are bad due to his insanity, right?

Regarding the old GW numbers, they were downright idiotic. The smallest Imperial Hiveworld i have found, Scintilla, still has 25 billion inhabitants. Scintilla, just like Armageddon, has only a few, densly populated cities. If we assume that at least 20% of the population can be mobilised ( roughly comparable to what nazi germany managed to mobilise ) then you will quickly notice that a few million orks are utterly insufficient to actualy conquer a Hiveworld.

I completely and utterly agree.

blood lance wrote:One other thing...I see the tau being treated the same way "noobs" are in an fps. They are relentlessly beaten up insulted and never given the oppurtunity/time of day/ general attention to actually do anything to make those haters shut up.
Haters gunan hate...but you know what else? Idiots gunna ignore.
Terrible bad pun thing I know.

I would keep quite if Tau fans didn't spank to the Tau by inflating Tau abilities or troll Imperial or hell any other faction with their ignorance.

Also: arent navigator genes found in more than just humans? the way that the fluuf writer goes a little out of their way to describe hwo the tau dont have this gene, they make it sound like everyone and their grandma (race wise) can have the gene.

Humanity developed the Navigator gene, probably by genetic manipulation.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
In the end, the humans of the Jericho Reach like neither the Tau or Imperium and would prefer to be independent from both. I truly find that hilarious .

1] From what I heard, the rebel groups that slow down the Imperium also fight each other cause we have Tau rebels vs Chaos rebels vs Genestealer rebels, is that right?

2] Again, from what I've heard. Most of the anti-tau and pro-Imperial feeling is due to Ebongrave's policies which are bad due to his insanity, right?

Well, the desire to stay independent appears to be quite understandable. After all many worlds faired pretty well without the Imperium or the Tau to bother them.
Of course, with a huge and extremely powerful Chaos cult on the rise and a large Splinterfleet invading the sector such neutrality is suicidal.

1. On some worlds this appears to be the case, yes. There are definately reports of Genesteeler cults within imperial and tau worlds. There is also a Slaaneshi cult active on the world of Carmyn, which is
used by several high ranking officers of the crusade to relax...


2. Ebongrave isn't realy insane ( ok, perhaps he is. But tbh, sanity is for the weak ), just paranoid. The problem is that his paranoia is justified. The Imperium bleeds the newly conquered worlds dry in order to maintain the ongoing crusade.
The Tau are quick to capitalise on this situation and lay the seeds of rebellion wherever they can. Ebongrave has to crack down on any signs of sedition if he wants to keep his new domain intact.
Of course this makes Imperial rule even more burdensome to those who never quite welcomed it.
Ebongrave's ( in my opinion ) only true failing is that he is utterly oposed to any kind of peace between the Sept and the Imperial Forces within the Jericho Reach. This would enable the crusade
to divert more manpower to the other two salients, where the imperium fights enemies that cannot be negotiated with.

Well some people dont just want to work then die

Again with the Tau improving their warp technology? Not gonna happen since the Ethereals forbade further warp research since the Fall of Medusa V. And no, the Tau aren't greater than the Imperium, otherwise they'd have conquered the galaxy already, which isn't going to happen, anymore than a Guardsman can defeat a Terminator. And if your tired of Imperium vs. Tau, then let's go with Eldar vs. Tau. If the Tau ever colonize a maiden world, the Swordwind will cut your vaunted Fire Warriors to pieces.

KingDeath wrote:
Well, the desire to stay independent appears to be quite understandable. After all many worlds faired pretty well without the Imperium or the Tau to bother them.
Of course, with a huge and extremely powerful Chaos cult on the rise and a large Splinterfleet invading the sector such neutrality is suicidal.

Agreed. Although I was hoping for you to comment on my little rant about humans being unhappy with the Tau .

1. On some worlds this appears to be the case, yes. There are definately reports of Genesteeler cults within imperial and tau worlds. There is also a Slaaneshi cult active on the world of Carmyn, which is
used by several high ranking officers of the crusade to relax...

Emperor protect us all!

2. Ebongrave isn't realy insane ( ok, perhaps he is. But tbh, sanity is for the weak ), just paranoid. The problem is that his paranoia is justified. The Imperium bleeds the newly conquered worlds dry in order to maintain the ongoing crusade.

To be fair to the Imperium, its sounds like the reason worlds are being drained is due to the rise of Chaos and the Nids and the resources the Imperium needs to maintain its battle against them. Thus while the worlds rebelling against the Imperium in this situation for being drained are understandable, their acts weaken the Crusade which weakens the current line of defense against the Nids and Chaos

Is my analysis right?

The Tau are quick to capitalise on this situation and lay the seeds of rebellion wherever they can. Ebongrave has to crack down on any signs of sedition if he wants to keep his new domain intact.
Of course this makes Imperial rule even more burdensome to those who never quite welcomed it.

Due to wanting to be independent. Yeah, pretty understandable.

Ebongrave's ( in my opinion ) only true failing is that he is utterly oposed to any kind of peace between the Sept and the Imperial Forces within the Jericho Reach. This would enable the crusade
to divert more manpower to the other two salients, where the imperium fights enemies that cannot be negotiated with.

Well, he does have the mandate along with his fellow commanders to conquer the Jericho Reach which means taking Tauy territory as well. So any alliance is temporary at best and thus not worth the effort in his opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Well some people dont just want to work then die

What? We in real life do the same thing of work and die. So what are you saying?

Read the words; work and die, an imperial citizen on a hive world was just born and has already worked themselves to death by the time you finished saying it.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Read the words; work and die, an imperial citizen on a hive world was just born and has already worked themselves to death by the time you finished saying it.

You're just exaggerating.

I know, but you understand what I mean now. Here me and you work l, and can at least change jobs or pursue a political or religious life and educate ourselves. Can the same be said for a hiver? Sure they're educated, but just to be productive. Not to better themselves as humans

@ xXSir MontyXx : off topic but I read a few pages back you just joined the military, was wondering what branch and unit, me I am freezing my butt off in the 4/25 and am 13F, E-6, one military guy to another

Haha man I'm air force, freezing up in Minot, North Dakota. B-52 PHASE. Crew chief.

Air force..thats kinda military , but hey nice to know ya, take good care of the bombers flown by our grand dads...

stay safe battle.

++++++resume hate fest+++++++++

I will, and they will return the favor to you later one day.

Stay safe as well.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Air force..thats kinda military , but hey nice to know ya, take good care of the bombers flown by our grand dads...

stay safe battle.

++++++resume hate fest+++++++++

Suddenly the pic makes a ton more sense, Staff Sgt.

USMCR E-3, 0451. (or 92R if I remember the army mos code correctly)

Military ftw HUAH!

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I know, but you understand what I mean now. Here me and you work l, and can at least change jobs or pursue a political or religious life and educate ourselves. Can the same be said for a hiver? Sure they're educated, but just to be productive. Not to better themselves as humans

Productive so they can take care of themselves. Not everything the citizens of the Imperium does is to feed the war effort you know. There are those who work for the private guilds or corporations and do work to get salaries etc.

Yes like with agricultural worlds as well I'm sure they have some breathing room to get things like that done as well.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Yes like with agricultural worlds as well I'm sure they have some breathing room to get things like that done as well.

For example, in a Dark Heresy adventure, there is are two siblings, a brother and sister, the brother is unlucky enough to be illiterate and out of a job due to the company he worked for getting destroyed by the Inquisition although officially it simply disbanded . Anyway, his sister, who is literate, managed to find a job in the upper hive and is planning to start moving up and live there.

This is why I like the FFG stuff. It gives a picture of 40k thats not on a battlefield, all the time.

I know, "in the future, there is only," blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of war, mostly, but there is still plenty of room for all the other aspects of society that GW hasn't developed.

CpatTom wrote:This is why I like the FFG stuff. It gives a picture of 40k thats not on a battlefield, all the time.

I know, "in the future, there is only," blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of war, mostly, but there is still plenty of room for all the other aspects of society that GW hasn't developed.

+1 I like to read about the normal lives of citizens as well. To know the inter workings of the 40k unoverse

The Tau don't have what it takes, anyway they spend all of their tine 'grazing'. If any army has what it takes its the Tyranids or
the imperium. But only time will tell!

The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

The only thing keeping the Tau from becoming a galactic power is warp travel. The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

A huge threat? No. But they may end up turning into the little engine that could. Slow start, but once it gets moving and builds momentum.... watch out.

IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

I'd expect we will see them paired up against the IG/Ultras next codex.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

Tau are not a minor Empire. Otherwise they would not have their own TT army. They are considered by GW to be a major player. They just aren't a major power on a galactic scale... yet.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

I'd expect we will see them paired up against the IG/Ultras next codex.

I'd expect them ruined by chaos. You know, they don't care where the skullz and blood comes from...just want the galaxy to burn.
Seriously, stop altering the background to your liking. We already know you like them soooo much.

Corrected version:

I like the Tau. I had a 1200 point Tau army years ago.

That being said, some of you guys (especially beef) need to recognize their current place in the grand scheme of things. This is just common sense and has been spelled out by GW so far:
Tau are not a galactic threat/power. Yet.

There's no insult in that. It's just the way it is right now. They'll keep building on their fluff and before you know it they're gonna get FTL travel and be a serious power. Until then, they aren't.

Agreed, however most of their notable victories so far have been over shadowed by nativity in my opinion. with the only real victory being the tiny Tyranid splinter they killed with no casualties.
Where I disagree though is that they developed tech crazy fast. They have not moved forward very much is.center their arrival in the galaxy, when they caught Gorgon they were just exploiting tech they already had. Humans do that now in real life. There is nothing extraordinary about that.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

So have other alien empires. The only real difference is that the Tau have a tendency to integrate the races they conquer. The splinter fleet I assume was a rather small one, since they apparently haven't repeated such a feat (I'm amazed Shadowsun isn't called a mary-sue by this forum. Calgar is, and yet he takes heavy losses in his encounters with his foes. Shadowsun can do it without losing a single soldier, and is apparently astounding in both naval and planetary tractics).

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

Maybe they will, but a few hundred worlds still isn't a great deal. They may have influence on the Eastern Fringes, but further into the Imperium I doubt they'll achieve a great deal.

IronSnake wrote:Tau are not a minor Empire. Otherwise they would not have their own TT army. They are considered by GW to be a major player. They just aren't a major power on a galactic scale... yet.

How are they a major player if they are stuck on the Eastern Fringes with no influence beyond their very limited sphere? I wouldn't say that the Space Wolves or Blood Angels are major powers by themselves, and yet they both have their own Codex. The Mechanicus is more powerful than any of these, but don't.

Because they have a foothold in their area of the galaxy. Because they have superior technology. Because they have their own TT army as according to GW. And because should they find a way to use FTL travel... they're gonna start shaking things up.

Nothing will happen unless GW advance the timeline. Which frankly I think they never will.

GW might not be advancing the overall timeline but they are expanding on the fluff with each new codex. It's possible Tau can get a boost in the next one.

Yeah, they have a habit of retconning the present instead of advancing the timeline.

IronSnake wrote:Because they have a foothold in their area of the galaxy. Because they have superior technology. Because they have their own TT army as according to GW. And because should they find a way to use FTL travel... they're gonna start shaking things up.

So do many alien empires, including numerous Ork empires, but people seldom seem to suggest that they'll go on a galaxy threatening Waaagh! and that's about as likely as the Tau threatening the Imperium. Debatable. Personally I really don't think that that's the case (at the least, the Imperium still has superior naval assets). So what if they have a table-top army? You didn't answer how that meanas that they are a major player (or at least, any more so than individual Astartes Chapters). They do have faster-than-light travel, and I doubt they would suddenly start shaking things up since they're not only stuck where they are because of relatively slow Warp travel; it's also because they don't have the manpower to expand as rapidly as they move, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

If an army has a TT presence, they are a major force to be reckoned with. I think common sense would tell you that they are a major player.

IronSnake wrote:Because they have a foothold in their area of the galaxy. Because they have superior technology. Because they have their own TT army as according to GW. And because should they find a way to use FTL travel... they're gonna start shaking things up.

They won't. No matter what Tau fans think, GW's primary cash source in 40k is and always will be the Imperium. So GW won't do anything stupid like replace the Imperium with the Tau, which would completely ruin the game's grimdark feel. Not to mention the small Tau population compared to other major races like Humans and Orks. And while the Tau might be relatively invulnerable to the effects of Chaos, their subject races are not, so it's only going to be a matter of time before Chaos infects the Tau Empire.

It's all a matter of speculation anyway. Suffice it to say that Tau could, in theory, receive a boost to their fluff. It doesn't have anyting to do with sales or the fact that the Imperium is the #1 force in the galaxy.

Tadashi wrote:

IronSnake wrote:Because they have a foothold in their area of the galaxy. Because they have superior technology. Because they have their own TT army as according to GW. And because should they find a way to use FTL travel... they're gonna start shaking things up.

They won't. No matter what Tau fans think, GW's primary cash source in 40k is and always will be the Imperium. So GW won't do anything stupid like replace the Imperium with the Tau, which would completely ruin the game's grimdark feel. Not to mention the small Tau population compared to other major races like Humans and Orks. And while the Tau might be relatively invulnerable to the effects of Chaos, their subject races are not, so it's only going to be a matter of time before Chaos infects the Tau Empire.

I wish you would stop leaping to conclusions. No where in his post did he say 'Replace the Imperium with the Tau'. There still are people who do not like the Imperium and wish their Xenos armies get some attention ONCE in a while. And as long as the Imperium is still operating, Chaos will largely ignore Tau and its collectives for the more tantalizing treats via Humanity and Eldar.

IronSnake wrote:It's all a matter of speculation anyway. Suffice it to say that Tau could, in theory, receive a boost to their fluff. It doesn't have anyting to do with sales or the fact that the Imperium is the #1 force in the galaxy.

Tau are recieving more fluff. It is inevitable just by looking at the layouts of the latest Codicies. Whether or not GW will give Tau the fluff to travel around the Ultima Segmentum is debatable, but likely, to reinforce the TT likelyhood of other TT armies running into the Tau.

I could win the lottery, buy a controlling share of GW stock, and create Female Grey Knights who fell to Chaos and orchestrated the downfall of the IoM before being convinced the Greater Good is what is best for the galaxy, and installing the Tau as the Supreme overlords of the MIlkyway, who often invite the Nids over for tea.

Hows that for a future of 40k?

CpatTom wrote:I could win the lottery, buy a controlling share of GW stock, and create Female Grey Knights who fell to Chaos and orchestrated the downfall of the IoM before being convinced the Greater Good is what is best for the galaxy, and installing the Tau as the Supreme overlords of the MIlkyway, who often invite the Nids over for tea.

Hows that for a future of 40k?

No please.

I like my Tau as the under-estimated, overlooked, new empire on the block with a fresh angle on the 40k universe, a little fluff buff, and some new toys and I will be a happy Shas'O.

I actually will prefer just a mild step forward for them, but a estensive flesh out of the dynamics of this most dynamic of empires.

CpatTom wrote:I could win the lottery, buy a controlling share of GW stock.

You need to win 3 lotteries to do this. Seriously, that would be like trying to buy Star Wars from George Lucas, not gonna happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CpatTom wrote:
Hows that for a future of 40k?

Not gonna happened.

Obviously, nids don't drink tea.

Eldar are still better than the Tau though. Doesn't really matter if the galaxy's in its current state thanks to their Fall, but out of all xenos, they're probably the closest to Humans, which is one reason I like them better than the Tau. Swordwind of Biel-Tan > Fire Caste.

KplKeegan wrote:
Tau are recieving more fluff. It is inevitable just by looking at the layouts of the latest Codicies. Whether or not GW will give Tau the fluff to travel around the Ultima Segmentum is debatable, but likely, to reinforce the TT likelyhood of other TT armies running into the Tau.

GW already placed a warp rift, they don't need to mobilize the TAU.
Just redirect chaos crusade n° 14 into the eastern fringe..

some factions are operating Galaxy wide:
- Orks
- Tyranids
- Eldar
- Necrons
- Humans
- chaos

You don't have to move the Tau out, its easier to move the rest in.

What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

CpatTom wrote:Hows that for a future of 40k?

No future at all?
40k killed as a game system in minutes.

1hadhq wrote:
What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

This. I would like to see Tau Empire against Farsight Enclaves. This is about to happened in the near future for sure.

Brother Coa wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

This. I would like to see Tau Empire against Farsight Enclaves. This is about to happened in the near future for sure.

Yeah, that would be great. The Imperium wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of the turmoil in the Tau Empire to restore and fortify its frontier, while the Orks would be drawn to the area for a good fight. Not to mention the Dark Eldar who would see it a great chance to acquire fresh slaves and 'food'. Or the Tyranids for that matter. While the Tau are busy with themselves and others, genestealers in the empire can take advantage of the turmoil to grow influential enough to draw the Hive Fleets in.

Brother Coa wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

This. I would like to see Tau Empire against Farsight Enclaves. This is about to happened in the near future for sure.

I think it will happen. Surprised they haven't had any battles yet.

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:I could win the lottery, buy a controlling share of GW stock.

You need to win 3 lotteries to do this. Seriously, that would be like trying to buy Star Wars from George Lucas, not gonna happened.

Current estimates from site below have GW's market cap at roughly 138 million pounds. Thats some odd 216 million dollars, well underneath the largest jackpot in Mega Millions ( one of the multi-state lottery here in ga, that was 365 million). So, In actuality, one win could own the company.
http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=GAW

Not gonna happened.

It would be a terrible direction. I will admit that (I just used the example to refute the: it won't/can't happen, as obviously there is a future where it is possible).


I really hope for some Enclave vs Empire action. It is a magnificent distinction, and it rolls off the tongue so well.

Enclave vs Empire, yeah.

All right, sorry. I meant you will never buy Games Workshop because people won't sell it.
Same thing as Lucas won't sell Star Wars

Brother Coa wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

This. I would like to see Tau Empire against Farsight Enclaves. This is about to happened in the near future for sure.

This would also help justify those awkward Tau vs. Tau table top matches.

1hadhq wrote:What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

Each Tau hater his own favorite Tau genocide fantasy.
Even if it contradicts current fluff.

IMHO, I think that the Tau are never going to conquer in the scale the IoM or the Orks have. Sure they can expand their empire, but it will be difficult and slow since they do not have Warp-capable ships.

About the dangers facing their Empire, there are the Tyranids. Their Empire is too small to hold out for long against a major fleet. They had enough trouble with a splinter fleet, which they somehow managed to destroy. They cannot win a war of attrition, specially not in the scale of a Tyranid invasion.

And there are signs of insurrection among the race, such as the case of commander Farsight. Orks and Dark Eldar raiders will also be a serious problem. I doubt they can stand an Ork Waaagh on the scale of Armageddon. The expanding Necron empires can also do serious harm to them.

They beat the splinter fleet because if the imperium. They also destroyed another fleet with no casualties. However that was on space and was very small.
but yes, you have several valid points.

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:What if they expand on the likelyhood of Tau vs Tau ?

Each Tau hater his own favorite Tau genocide fantasy.
Even if it contradicts current fluff.

So youre saying if GW lets slip the control of the etherals and Tau harm other Tau AGAIN, this contradicts current fluff?
Somehow, parts of the codices GW releases don't survive the selective reading methods of our Dakkanauts with a Tau genocide paranoia.

Civil war happend once. The likelyhood of it isn't zero just because currently we have no information how those in the empire and the followers of Farsight get along. In the case of Farsight and Shadowsun, 2 schools of thought may collide and the followship of both could resort to violence.
The fire caste isn't called fire caste for their calmness..

1hadhq wrote:So youre saying if GW lets slip the control of the etherals and Tau harm other Tau AGAIN, this contradicts current fluff?
Somehow, parts of the codices GW releases don't survive the selective reading methods of our Dakkanauts with a Tau genocide paranoia.

Civil war happend once. The likelyhood of it isn't zero just because currently we have no information how those in the empire and the followers of Farsight get along. In the case of Farsight and Shadowsun, 2 schools of thought may collide and the followship of both could resort to violence.
The fire caste isn't called fire caste for their calmness..

At this point a Tau directly disobeying an Etheral in his presence would be a contradiction of the fluff. Farsight is more like a kid who ran away from home, than an actual rebel at this point. Sure they let him set up his nice little treefort down the street, but if they really needed some Close Range trained Tau warriors, they could send Space Pope to bring him back in the fold (HOVER-POPE!).

Hopefully, with the new Codex, the Enclave will do something like, pick up their own defector Etheral, thus insuring their faith in the Tau and only Tau outlook all the IoM players love ( , With Human's replacing Tau of course). Of course the Enclave could be "immune" to Etheral control somehow, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything besides the Enclave Etheral explanation that doesn't suck as to why they are immune (And Enclave Etheral is kinda a sketchy idea as is, but ya know, whatever,somebody else come up with something more plausible)

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:IMHO, I think that the Tau are never going to conquer in the scale the IoM or the Orks have. Sure they can expand their empire, but it will be difficult and slow since they do not have Warp-capable ships.

About the dangers facing their Empire, there are the Tyranids. Their Empire is too small to hold out for long against a major fleet. They had enough trouble with a splinter fleet, which they somehow managed to destroy. They cannot win a war of attrition, specially not in the scale of a Tyranid invasion.

And there are signs of insurrection among the race, such as the case of commander Farsight. Orks and Dark Eldar raiders will also be a serious problem. I doubt they can stand an Ork Waaagh on the scale of Armageddon. The expanding Necron empires can also do serious harm to them.

They might be able to stand up against a full Hive Fleet, but they would end up like Iyanden, broken and in dire straits. And IMO, Farsight is probably possessed or controlled like Fulgrim by a daemon in that Dawn Blade of his, or that could be a C'tan artifact, although I lean towards the daemon weapon hypothesis. Even if they lack psychic aptitude, they're not immune to psychic influence, and certainly not to daemonic possession. Either way, I doubt even with an Ethereal nearby Farsight would rejoin the Empire.

Farsight had an existing grudge against the powers that be in the Empire (not providing him adequate reinforcements, censure of one of his followers) as well as some policy concerns. So his beef with the Empire was founded in reality.

If the Imperium is right in that the Ethereals do exert some sort of mind control through presence, the lack of a presence of Ethereals combined with his existing grudge is all that is eeded to explain his breakaway status.

No need to make it more complicated than it already is.

Not the one making it complicated. The Tau codexes were the ones which mentioned Farsight being under malign influences, which causes concern not just to the Ordo Xenos, but to the entire Inquisition. And the Tau aren't under mind control, apparently its some sort of pheromone.

Tadashi wrote:Not the one making it complicated. The Tau codexes were the ones which mentioned Farsight being under malign influences, which causes concern not just to the Ordo Xenos, but to the entire Inquisition. And the Tau aren't under mind control, apparently its some sort of pheromone.

I'm going to need a page number for that one as I can't find a reference to anything else influencing Farsight in my copy of Codex: Tau Empire.

Also, mind control, mind altering chemical, same effect, different terminology. It's still only an Imperium theory at this point (the Tau Codex does acknowledge the theory though).

Sorry, don't have a page number since I don't have a copy of Codex: Tau Empire, only Space Marines, CSM, and Eldar. I've always assumed the references on Lexicanum's pages about the Tau were accurate.

So you mean what is in the section titled Speculation?

That is not in the 4th edition codex at all. I have been trying but I have no luck confirming it is mentioned in the 3rd edition. The current codex ascribes his motives to personal profit and or a grudge against the powers that be. It also indicates he defeated the forces on Athras Moloch, not made a deal with them.

I will point out that in the current big rule book it does provide indications that Farsight's extended life span (part of the grounds of the speculation) is not unusual in the Tau. While the average life span is only 4 decades, apparently some Tau have essentially lived for as long as there was purpose for them to. Aun'va and Commander Puretide may be examples of such long-lived Tau.

So right now, the evidence in game books I have access to does not point towards a third party being necessary or involved in Farsight's behaviour.

But they don't exactly contradict it either. In the end, whether your a Tau fan or not, the final answer is: We don't know.

CpatTom wrote:

At this point a Tau directly disobeying an Etheral in his presence would be a contradiction of the fluff. Farsight is more like a kid who ran away from home, than an actual rebel at this point. Sure they let him set up his nice little treefort down the street, but if they really needed some Close Range trained Tau warriors, they could send Space Pope to bring him back in the fold (HOVER-POPE!).

A kid?
Hover pope won't be able to bring him back into the fold that easy, because if he was able to he didn't have to destroy Farsights status as a hero of the fire caste and install Shadowsun INSTEAD.
OtoH, a failed attempt to "educate" Farsight is a chance to get rid of hover pope and give Tau a useful leader of the etherals.
Aun'Va already got a temple, they can venerate his memory there...

Jefffar wrote:Farsight had an existing grudge against the powers that be in the Empire (not providing him adequate reinforcements, censure of one of his followers) as well as some policy concerns. So his beef with the Empire was founded in reality.

If the Imperium is right in that the Ethereals do exert some sort of mind control through presence, the lack of a presence of Ethereals combined with his existing grudge is all that is needed to explain his breakaway status.

IF the Imperium is right?
Why question the wisdom of the IoM?

Seriously, the etherals had this hint on a form of control back in the day of their introduction in WD, kept over 2 codices and used in multiple BL publications when etherals showed up.

Farsight got from start a background where he went to a artfifact world and claimed a weapon of unknown origin.
Both combined with his loss of the accompanying etherals and the fact the region he and his expedition have settled was forbidden to Tau of the empire should generate more than a "angry kid" story.

The world he got his weapon from was cleansed by a chapter of marines once and nobody sends the astartes just to care for a minor threat.
Farsight lost his etherals to an unknown foe, maybe the cleansing wasn't perfect and someting remained or worse returned to that world.
Looking at the form of his personal gear, I'd guess Necrons.... maybe he is one of the vassals of the dynasties now?
The crons would be able to block out psychic effects too and keep him "alive" for some time...

Jefffar wrote: It's still only an Imperium theory at this point (the Tau Codex does acknowledge the theory though).

Its a piece of fluff created from start, kept and used today.
The etherals are the restraint of the fire caste without a doubt.

Jefffar wrote:
So right now, the evidence in game books I have access to does not point towards a third party being necessary or involved in Farsight's behaviour.

Third party ended his etherals. Third party created his weapon.
No third party involved in his behaviour?

Interesting point. That this party could either be chaos influenced or the C'tan could potentially prove disastrous for the Tau Empire. And since the Tau lack psychic abilities, Farsight probably doesn't realize that a daemon or the C'tan is influencing his thoughts from the sword.

I would love to see him over throw the ethereals! It would make the Tau SO much more interesting!

1hadhq wrote:The etherals are the restraint of the fire caste without a doubt.

Only if you define a bloody civil war ending the Tau race as progress for the Tau race.

1hadhq wrote:Hover pope won't be able to bring him back into the fold that easy, because if he was able to he didn't have to destroy Farsights status as a hero of the fire caste and install Shadowsun INSTEAD.

Farsight is a war criminal and massacre happy. If he is brought back, then not as military leader. And Farsight knows that.

Farsight was created so that the usual "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids also have an option to play in the Codex. The Tau race was created, so that all others also have an option to play in 40k. That's why most "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids think, Tau should be killed on sight

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:The etherals are the restraint of the fire caste without a doubt.

Only if you define a bloody civil war ending the Tau race as progress for the Tau race.

1hadhq wrote:Hover pope won't be able to bring him back into the fold that easy, because if he was able to he didn't have to destroy Farsights status as a hero of the fire caste and install Shadowsun INSTEAD.

Farsight is a war criminal and massacre happy. If he is brought back, then not as military leader. And Farsight knows that.

Farsight was created so that the usual "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids also have an option to play in the Codex. The Tau race was created, so that all others also have an option to play in 40k. That's why most "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids think, Tau should be killed on sight

No far from the truth. I think this way because Tau fluff is uniteresting IMO except for farsight who adds flavor to the bland eastern fringe. IMO not trolling, just saying what I think.

So far, only Farsight has the grimdark flavor among the Tau. It would be nice for him to come back and overthrow the Ethereal Caste and become the sole ruler of the Tau Empire. I mean, it would give the Imperium a real reason to fortify the frontier, and add some interest to the largely quiet area of Ultima Segmentum.

CpatTom wrote:I could win the lottery, buy a controlling share of GW stock, and create Female Grey Knights who fell to Chaos and orchestrated the downfall of the IoM before being convinced the Greater Good is what is best for the galaxy, and installing the Tau as the Supreme overlords of the MIlkyway, who often invite the Nids over for tea.

Hows that for a future of 40k?

As long as you bring back the Squats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:The etherals are the restraint of the fire caste without a doubt.

Only if you define a bloody civil war ending the Tau race as progress for the Tau race.

1hadhq wrote:Hover pope won't be able to bring him back into the fold that easy, because if he was able to he didn't have to destroy Farsights status as a hero of the fire caste and install Shadowsun INSTEAD.

Farsight is a war criminal and massacre happy. If he is brought back, then not as military leader. And Farsight knows that.

Farsight was created so that the usual "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids also have an option to play in the Codex. The Tau race was created, so that all others also have an option to play in 40k. That's why most "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids think, Tau should be killed on sight

No far from the truth. I think this way because Tau fluff is uniteresting IMO except for farsight who adds flavor to the bland eastern fringe. IMO not trolling, just saying what I think.

That's fair comment. The point of the Tau is to be different to everyone else.

As long as there are nine other Grimdark factions in the game there is plenty for everyone.

Kroothawk wrote:.
Only if you define a bloody civil war ending the Tau race as progress for the Tau race.

Progress would be:
- to reveal the creators of the etherals
- to sort out their timeline
- to admit the dark side of every living creature does not exclude the Tau
- to move them off of their course of counteracting against the general war effort to keep nids , orks and chaos in check
- to expand upon the coalition without the whining of the lack of focus on Tau
- to blunt their fanatism with reality, setting the path to multiple facets instead of this "all hail the greatar goood"

oh wait, I forgot to undo them per buying the company and retcon them out of existence...sorry I failed to met your expectations.

Kroothawk wrote:.
Farsight is a war criminal and massacre happy. If he is brought back, then not as military leader. And Farsight knows that.

Farsight was created so that the usual "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids also have an option to play in the Codex. The Tau race was created, so that all others also have an option to play in 40k. That's why most "arrrrgh must kill everything in sight" kids think, Tau should be killed on sight

Tau killed on sight "kids"..
So whoever disagrees with you is a kid?
I shouldn't ask this, but out of curiosity: is 40k as a wargame not too violent for you? Seems you want a background filled with love, peace and flower picking..

Its pointless to ask...Tau fans believe that the Tau being the only non-grimdark race in 40k are their reason of playing the Tau, just like how we like the Imperium, Chaos, etc., because its grimdark...

CpatTom wrote:
At this point a Tau directly disobeying an Etheral in his presence would be a contradiction of the fluff.

For the Tau, pheromones. For non-Tau, 're-education'.

Tadashi wrote:So far, only Farsight has the grimdark flavor among the Tau. It would be nice for him to come back and overthrow the Ethereal Caste and become the sole ruler of the Tau Empire. I mean, it would give the Imperium a real reason to fortify the frontier, and add some interest to the largely quiet area of Ultima Segmentum.

No it wouldn't. Farsight as a renegade is somewhat interesting but Farsight as some kind of grimdark miniature Emperor is actualy rather boring. After all, 40k has plenty of them.

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:So far, only Farsight has the grimdark flavor among the Tau. It would be nice for him to come back and overthrow the Ethereal Caste and become the sole ruler of the Tau Empire. I mean, it would give the Imperium a real reason to fortify the frontier, and add some interest to the largely quiet area of Ultima Segmentum.

No it wouldn't. Farsight as a renegade is somewhat interesting but Farsight as some kind of grimdark miniature Emperor is actualy rather boring. After all, 40k has plenty of them.

This.

Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

Tadashi wrote:Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

For one, Daemons aren't drawn to Tau like they are to Humans and Eldar and two, C'tan don't do that anymore. Please stop slobbering your Imperial desires all over our floor, the Drones just cleaned it.

Tadashi wrote:Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

Are you Mat Ward?

In the Firewarrior novels didn't the demon indicate it was virtually impossible for them to corrupt a Tau? Only about 1 in a million Tau are even susceptible to ther influence normally.

Add to that the presence of the Ethereals, the meditation techniques the Tau are apparently taught and the general indoctrination they grew up with . . .

If one buys the theory that the Ethereals were created by the Eldar (or a faction thereof) to what end? Why would the Eldar want another armed faction in the universe?

Well the answer that comes to my mind first is as a counter to something else.

But what?

Why promote a race devoid of psychic powers that wishes the universe to get along in a peaceful, orderly fashion and is willing to force this idea on others? What sort of enemy would that weaken?

The answer I come up with is Chaos.

The Eldar (if they did create the Ethereals) created the Ethereals as the ultimate agents of Order to cleanse the galaxy of the suffering and pain and independent thought which fuels the forces of Chaos.

Think about it? It's the pain and suffering within the IoM which gives Chaos the most of it's power. If you could replace the IoM with a body which treated it's subjects decently (by 40K standards) and quickly and quietly re-educates any with any sort of deviant thought pattern, Chaos would find themselves without most of their food supply.

If this is the plan (a sort of fall back after the failure of the Horus Hersey plan) then chosing a race that is devoid of psykers and highly resistant to Chaos manipulation also makes sense.

That's my grimdark take on the Tau's origins. The Greater Good is not about Good, it's about Order and Control. It is the Anti-Chaos.

Tadashi wrote:Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

You can just say that is how it works now. We don't know where the ethereals come from. They could very well be C'tan already.

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

For one, Daemons aren't drawn to Tau like they are to Humans and Eldar and two, C'tan don't do that anymore. Please stop slobbering your Imperial desires all over our floor, the Drones just cleaned it.

Isn't farsights sword possessed? No reason to jump down his throat. This was mentioned a couple of posts ago after all lol. Btw I hope drones like cleaning up Tau blood off the floor. That is before the rippers are done with said floor.

Nowhere is it confirmed, just whispered.

nomotog wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Who said he'd be the ACTUAL ruler of the Tau Empire. A daemon or the C'tan would rule the Empire from the shadows once Farsight takes the throne over the Ethereals' corpses.

You can just say that is how it works now. We don't know where the ethereals come from. They could very well be C'tan already.

That could have worked, but now the C'tan are all broken fragments enslaved by the Necrons, like a more pathetic version of the shards of Khaine. While it would have, prior to the new necron codex, been feasible to even go so far as to assume the Tau were related to the pre-Necron Necrontyr, and were created by the Deceiver, Ward kind of broke all that.

I don't understand why GW continues to let War write fluff. Of he has such a wide spread hatred among people.

No kidding. Ward ruined the Grey Knights and I'm not sure I like the new Necron Codex 'tomb kings in space'. Its like he's trying to turn 40k into 'Warhammer in space', something GW tried to change from 2nd Edition onwards. And the Dawn Blade is still suspicious. Even if it isn't a C'tan artifact or a daemon weapon, I'm not giving up that Farsight is under or part of a third party working against the Ethereals.

Farsight is a skilled commander (which has nothing to do with Ethereal influence) why isn't it possible for him to lead his own Enclave?

Jefffar wrote:Farsight is a skilled commander (which has nothing to do with Ethereal influence) why isn't it possible for him to lead his own Enclave?

Because the rest of the Tau are still brainwashed zombies. And not the cool kind, the hippie kind....

Tadashi wrote: And the Dawn Blade is still suspicious. Even if it isn't a C'tan artifact or a daemon weapon, I'm not giving up that Farsight is under or part of a third party working against the Ethereals.

Or it could be a Space Marine Chapter Relic since its a Shrine World for the Scythes of the Emperor...


Source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arthas_Moloch

Then how can it affect Farsight's mind? Maybe it was something in psychic quarantine...

There is no proof it is affecting his mind any more than the effects on his mind from no longer having Ethereals present.

Tadashi wrote:Then how can it affect Farsight's mind? Maybe it was something in psychic quarantine...

Why should it affect Farsight's mind at all? Why is it so difficult to believe that Farsight simply went renegade?
The Deathwatch rpg ( or to be more accurate, Mark of the Xenos ) fluff actualy describes pretty well what happens when a cardre of Tau Firewarriors loses their Etheral.
They more or less become overwhelmed by their barbaric instincts. They are agressive, prone to infighting and undisciplined.

The tau commander, Flamewing in this case, managed to overcome this state of mind but who says that Farsight was able to do the same?

KingDeath wrote: Why is it so difficult to believe that Farsight simply went renegade?

Tau fans claim that is impossible for Tau.

Not just the fans...even fluff says that Tau lose coherence and sense of purpose without guidance from an Ethereal. Let's say Farsight managed to avoid becoming 'overwhelmed'. If he's still in his right mind, first thing he would do would be to request a new Ethereal. But he didn't. He led his troops and civilian followers and dug themselves in and shut the Ethereals out. He doesn't even try to contact T'au at all. Something's up with him...

Brother Coa wrote:Tau fans claim that is impossible for Tau.

All your lies about tau fans get annoying. Can't you troll someone else for a change?

Tadashi wrote:Not just the fans...even fluff says that Tau lose coherence and sense of purpose without guidance from an Ethereal. Let's say Farsight managed to avoid becoming 'overwhelmed'. If he's still in his right mind, first thing he would do would be to request a new Ethereal. But he didn't. He led his troops and civilian followers and dug themselves in and shut the Ethereals out. He doesn't even try to contact T'au at all. Something's up with him...

Commander Farsight is one of the most aggressive Shas'o's ever tutored by Commander Pure Tide and passes the aggressiveness onto his basic troops, encouraging close ranged combat with marauding Orks as the Tau expanded. This left him embittered as he believed the other Shasos and even Ethereals didn't support him as well as they should have, and those underneath him felt the same.

When Farsight lost the Ethereals accompanying him, his aggressiveness intensified and he chased off after more Marauding Orks instead of overseeing the re-colonization process. Farsight established his Enclave to keep fighting the Orks, refusing from coming back to Tau because his aggression prevents him from doing so.

Tau Ethereals help curb the more prominent characteristics in the Tau. They helped Farsight control his overall aggression. When they died, Farsights aggression overwhelmed him and thus, Tau thinks he's not for the Greater Good but for his own Personal Gain.

He's not possessed. He's not harboring some Necron Tech. He's considered a Renegade by Tau and its Ethereals.

Kroothawk wrote:
All your lies about tau fans get annoying. Can't you troll someone else for a change?

My "lies":

- Tau Empire is smaller then the Imperium of Mankind. ( ~100 vs. ~1.000.000 ).
- Tau military, even highly advanced and well trained can't stand against full scales of all race's attacks ( Tyranids, Orks, Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons... ). While they can defeat smaller incursions on their own territory and closest systems.
- Tau are using the "Grater Good" to unify the galaxy. Often they are saying that they will "make you" embrace the Grater Good if you don't want to embrace it.
- There are hints that Etherials are using mind control ( Tau Codex 4'th edition ), but that's a rumor and until next codex I will leave it be. ( same as for sterilization in Ordo Xenos report ).
- Farsight indeed brake of the Tau Empire and established his own little empire in Democles Gulf. Is that first free Tau or is he under some influence - we won't know until next codex.

And I do believe that you have proven my lies yourself:

Kroothawk wrote:
"The Imperium of Man is much greater with a much bigger army. If, in theory, they could gather all their forces to crush Tau"
"Tau are a big fish in a small pont"

And seriously: your defense by naming everyone trolls, fanboys and every Tau related thread "genocidal" is becoming not boring but UBER-boring. Start answering normally or don't answer at all, thus it is you who are trolling us who are having normal discussion.

Then why's the Inquisition so concerned? It's not just the Ordo Xenos, it's the whole Inquisition.

Brother Coa wrote:Tau fans claim that is impossible for Tau.

Can you point to an example where Tau go renegade with an Etheral?

CpatTom wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Tau fans claim that is impossible for Tau.

Can you point to an example where Tau go renegade with an Etheral?

Only Farsight. Noone else has ever became one, because they are to loyal to Etherials.
Am I wroing?

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Tau fans claim that is impossible for Tau.

Can you point to an example where Tau go renegade with an Etheral?

Only Farsight. Noone else has ever became one, because they are to loyal to Etherials.
Am I wroing?

Farsight lost his Aun before he went rouge.

No. All Tau go to pieces when an Ethereal dies. Both the fluff and the tabletop rules support this.

Brother Coa wrote:Only Farsight. Noone else has ever became one, because they are to loyal to Etherials.

No, you can't because it hasn't happened yet. Farsight didnt have Etherals, his died. Maybe in the future codex we will be given an opportunity to better understand the obedience to Etheral control (and even a disobedient faction), but as of right now, people say it is "impossible" (it is not "impossible", and that is misconstruing what has been said: It is that none has done it so far and) until they alter the fluff there is no evidence to support that it will occur.

An example: It is also not "impossible" for a Grey Knight to fall to Chaos; however, it is never going to happen, unless they alter the fluff in the future.

Tadashi wrote:No. All Tau go to pieces when an Ethereal dies. Both the fluff and the tabletop rules support this.

Not always. The taros campaign had there aun assassinated, but they didn't fall apart.

Tadashi wrote:No. All Tau go to pieces when an Ethereal dies. Both the fluff and the tabletop rules support this.

Farsight disagrees.

CpatTom wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Only Farsight. Noone else has ever became one, because they are to loyal to Etherials.

No, you can't because it hasn't happened yet. Farsight didnt have Etherals, his died. Maybe in the future codex we will be given an opportunity to better understand the obedience to Etheral control (and even a disobedient faction), but as of right now, people say it is "impossible" (it is not "impossible", and that is misconstruing what has been said: It is that none has done it so far and) until they alter the fluff there is no evidence to support that it will occur.

An example: It is also not "impossible" for a Grey Knight to fall to Chaos; however, it is never going to happen, unless they alter the fluff in the future.

You have just proven my point. Now tell that to the Tau fans.

Coa, there's no such thing as a normal discussion with you.

You think Lasguns are good.

They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

And please Beef, we all know how "normal" you discussion are.

The Tau for now are still relatively small in the grand scheme of things. Their empire is growing, but not big enough to truely matter yet. At this stage, if the imperium bothered to truely send its entire military might against the Tau, it would be crushed utterly. But the imperium is too busy with tons of other things, so the Tau can still strive.

How would they fare if they had to fight a full fledged Tyranid hive fleet? No one knows. How would they fare if they had to face a full necron dynasty, no one knows either. They have only a few sectors and maybe close to one hundred planets. Its really small compared to the imperium.

Then again, look at Eldar. Eldar has been a "dying" race for tens of thousands of years, and their craftworlds are still drifting along. It seems we never run out of those things! hee.

CpatTom wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No. All Tau go to pieces when an Ethereal dies. Both the fluff and the tabletop rules support this.

Farsight disagrees.

All the more reason that he's being controlled or part of a third party.

Tadashi wrote:Then why's the Inquisition so concerned? It's not just the Ordo Xenos, it's the whole Inquisition.

Because Farsight is the shining example that killing Ethereals don't work. That even if the Imperium was to assassinate an Ethereal on the battlefield, the Tau aren't completely defenseless. And, to their horror, Tau fight harder when the recover from losing their Ethereal. THAT is what scares the Inquisition.

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

Not to my knowledge.

Eldenfirefly wrote:The Tau for now are still relatively small in the grand scheme of things. Their empire is growing, but not big enough to truely matter yet. At this stage, if the imperium bothered to truely send its entire military might against the Tau, it would be crushed utterly. But the imperium is too busy with tons of other things, so the Tau can still strive.

How would they fare if they had to fight a full fledged Tyranid hive fleet? No one knows. How would they fare if they had to face a full necron dynasty, no one knows either. They have only a few sectors and maybe close to one hundred planets. Its really small compared to the imperium.

Then again, look at Eldar. Eldar has been a "dying" race for tens of thousands of years, and their craftworlds are still drifting along. It seems we never run out of those things! hee.

If a full Hive Fleet (Behemoth, etc.) attacked the Tau they'd end up like Craftworld Iyanden. And the Necrons (at least based on the new Codex) have no reason to attack the Tau. And the Tau will reach the limit of their warp drive very soon. It takes them a week to traverse their Empire, a distance the Imperium could do in days (usually) or hours (rarely), and the Eldar in an instant. And Aspect Warriors = Space Marines, Aspect Warriors > Fire Caste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Then why's the Inquisition so concerned? It's not just the Ordo Xenos, it's the whole Inquisition.

Because Farsight is the shining example that killing Ethereals don't work. That even if the Imperium was to assassinate an Ethereal on the battlefield, the Tau aren't completely defenseless. And, to their horror, Tau fight harder when the recover from losing their Ethereal. THAT is what scares the Inquisition.

Then why is the Ordo Malleus also concerned? Those guys go after daemons and chaos worshippers, not aliens, remember?

KplKeegan wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

Not to my knowledge.

Tau shoot down 2'nd wave of troops, that wave also had heavy equipment that was also shot down. So it is logical that most of Elysians had Lascarbines and that they possessed few heavy weapons ( but that is also in question since they had nothing to counteract Hammerheads ). But IA say that Tau suffered great casualties in both Battlesuits and Fire Warriors before they were able to defeat them. ( They had to use Manta in the end to defeat them )

I think Necrons have lots of reason to attack the Tau. If Imotehk expand his empire far enough, and finds that some of the Tau planets are coreworlds or tomb worlds, then he will surely attack them. I doubt if Necrons care at all about the Greater Good!

Obviously. The new Necrons might tolerate other races, as long as they swear loyalty to the Necrons. One of the reasons the Silent King came back and woke the Necrons up was to restore Necrontyr dominance (apart from stopping the Tyranids).

I frankly doubt if the Tau would be willing to swear loyalty to the necrons though.

Tadashi wrote:Then why is the Ordo Malleus also concerned? Those guys go after daemons and chaos worshippers, not aliens, remember?

Where Farsight built his Enclave. It is a place the Tau consider 'forbidden' and gives them great concern that there's something buried around those worlds Daemon related. They're afraid of the Tau releasing something and having that something make a bee-line straight for Imperial Space, which is likely because Humans are a better food source than Tau.

Brother Coa wrote:So it is logical that most of Elysians had Lascarbines and that they possessed few heavy weapons ( but that is also in question since they had nothing to counteract Hammerheads ). But IA say that Tau suffered great casualties in both Battlesuits and Fire Warriors before they were able to defeat them. ( They had to use Manta in the end to defeat them )

They also had Valkyries. But because Battlesuits may have fallen does not mean they were all caused by carbines. I mean, you shoot a hundred rifles at a barn and something should hit it. And no, they didn't use a Manta to defeat them. They used the Manta to deliver the Shas'o to collect his prisoners.

But the Tau can't sense psychic auras. So why would they consider it forbidden, apart from being too close to the Imperial border? Something's up with Farsight, something that concerns not just the Holy Inquisition, but even the Tau Empire.

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

And please Beef, we all know how "normal" you discussion are.

TT rules: a str 3 lascarbine (lasgun) vs. a T 4 battlesuit needs 5+ to wound, then the suits 3+ sav is inacted, and requires 2 succesful wounds..

So yes they can and likely did kill/disable battlesuits, just the odds would not be great for it, and require a substantial number of shots, or two very lucky ones.

And yes TT does not always reflect fluff but Forgeworld /IA seems to strive to have its match up.

And although the Tau are not a player on the galactic stage, they are a regional power in their neck of the woods, we are all aware of that, so IoM fans (since thats the going term for people it seems now in this thread) can rest in their galactic size and grandure and leave off the incessent sabre rattling.

And yes the fluff supports the loss of a ethereal does not cripple the Tau permanetly just for a span of greif and consolidation, and then its bussiness as usual , but without the potential so much of diplomacy.

The Tau specifically considered it forbidden because of the Imperial border. The Ethereals wanted a primarily diplomatic expansion in that area, not a military one because the Water Caste has proven very effective at splitting off Imperial worlds and they didn't want to trigger a massive Imperium response.


In regards to the Tau without an Ethereal, Codex: Tau Empire is quite clear on the reasons for and the results of the death of an Ethereal on the Tau.

To the Tau Ethereals are their saviours from a period of time in which their people were beset by self-destructive civil war. This period, which the Tau refer to as the Time of Terror, still leaves scars on the psyche of modern Tau. Many modern Tau believe that without the Ethereals kindness, they will descend into barbarism.

In the case of the Fire Caste, there are to main forms of reaction to the death of an Ethereal. The first features the Fire Caste warriors giving into their despair and fleeing the field in confusion. Such an incident is outlined in Codex: Imperial Guard. The second has the Fire Caste respond aggressively, pouring fire into the enemy as they move forward. Shas'o R'myr's reaction on Taros is of the latter category.

On the table top the difference between which reaction occurs is a Leadership Test.


When we come to the case of Farsight, we have two factors to remember. First he is a highly aggressive commander, so he already has aggressive tendencies. Second, he was at odds with the Ethereals over a number of policy decisions that resulted in a large number of his troops dying needlessly and the censuring of one of his favoured students. So Farsight, at the time his Ethereals died, was already an aggressive, independently minded Tau who probably thought he was better off without Etherels around. A very unique situation and one that could easily explain him turnign his back on the Empire.

But hey, if you want to get to the tabletop about it. He has a Leardership of 10 and is so driven that he makes his entire army Bonded by default. He simply made his check and got on with his life.

KplKeegan wrote:
They also had Valkyries. But because Battlesuits may have fallen does not mean they were all caused by carbines. I mean, you shoot a hundred rifles at a barn and something should hit it. And no, they didn't use a Manta to defeat them. They used the Manta to deliver the Shas'o to collect his prisoners.

The text clearly states that Tau Manta fire all it's weapons at refinery. After the volley the Tau stormed the compound. That counts as "using Manta to defeat somebody". And I am referring to losses that Tau suffered while fighting in the compound. Elysians didn't use airstrikes there, there were only Guardsman vs. Battlesuits and Fire Warriors and still they manage to inflict heavy losses to Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

And please Beef, we all know how "normal" you discussion are.

TT rules: a str 3 lascarbine (lasgun) vs. a T 4 battlesuit needs 5+ to wound, then the suits 3+ sav is inacted, and requires 2 succesful wounds..

So yes they can and likely did kill/disable battlesuits, just the odds would not be great for it, and require a substantial number of shots, or two very lucky ones.

And yes TT does not always reflect fluff but Forgeworld /IA seems to strive to have its match up.

IA and TT rules are the same thing, except fluff.
Please don't use TT rules to show how something should work in fluff ( because all those rules exist to BALANCE the things, completely different then fluff ). If we all compare TT rules and fluff then Space Marine would worth 3 Guardsman, not 100.
This also show's how much Tau fans know about Imperial fluff.

Brother Coa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
They also had Valkyries. But because Battlesuits may have fallen does not mean they were all caused by carbines. I mean, you shoot a hundred rifles at a barn and something should hit it. And no, they didn't use a Manta to defeat them. They used the Manta to deliver the Shas'o to collect his prisoners.

The text clearly states that Tau Manta fire all it's weapons at refinery. After the volley the Tau stormed the compound. That counts as "using Manta to defeat somebody". And I am referring to losses that Tau suffered while fighting in the compound. Elysians didn't use airstrikes there, there were only Guardsman vs. Battlesuits and Fire Warriors and still they manage to inflict heavy losses to Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

And please Beef, we all know how "normal" you discussion are.

TT rules: a str 3 lascarbine (lasgun) vs. a T 4 battlesuit needs 5+ to wound, then the suits 3+ sav is inacted, and requires 2 succesful wounds..

So yes they can and likely did kill/disable battlesuits, just the odds would not be great for it, and require a substantial number of shots, or two very lucky ones.

And yes TT does not always reflect fluff but Forgeworld /IA seems to strive to have its match up.

IA and TT rules are the same thing, except fluff.
Please don't use TT rules to show how something should work in fluff ( because all those rules exist to BALANCE the things, completely different then fluff ). If we all compare TT rules and fluff then Space Marine would worth 3 Guardsman, not 100.
This also show's how much Tau fans know about Imperial fluff.

Did you even READ my post.. oh wait you again cherry pick I see.

The fluff is for the table top, and not vis versa, and the IA guys do seem to try to make the two match, even if the other authors, and BL guys do not, so where possible I will always use TT as a example.
And I am firmly and completely aware of Imperial fluff seeing as I was playing this game from RT days, you exhibit a complete ignorance of anything that does not fit your world view.

Hell, I even agreed with your claim as to lascarbines.

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Did you even READ my post.

I did, I was just confirming the last part you written down in it. The one that said that "TT does not always reflect fluff "

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Then why are you discussing those things again?

Brother Coa wrote:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Did you even READ my post.

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Then why are you discussing those things again?

Because I always feel people deserve a second chance, and I read a statement that could be confirmed in the rules.

But you being you, could not even take a comment from a Tau advocate that supported your statement.

And your need to argue is clearly evident, your dismissal of TT reflecting fluff is due to your ignorance of TT, play the damn game, the tabletop one , and alot of these things will be more balanced for you, and who knows you may even enjoy it.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Because I always feel people deserve a second chance, and I read a statement that could be confirmed in the rules.

Good for you.

But you being you, could not even take a comment from a Tau advocate that supported your statement.

See again.

And your need to argue is clearly evident, your dismissal of TT reflecting fluff is due to your ignorance of TT, play the damn game, the tabletop one , and alot of these things will be more balanced for you, and who knows you may even enjoy it.

Played a couple of game actually. It was hilarious how cruel the dice god can be. And it is not like you said, still managed to kill FIre Warriors in melee with few Guardsman. My opponent even missed the entire Guard squad he was targeting.
In the second game I played as Space Marine, My tactical squad with Heavy Bolter and Melta missed SINGLE Fire Warrior, they all target him and they all missed him. ( he was in the open )
So when it comes to fluff I completely disregard TT rules. SAme I do with DoW gameplay when compared to the fluff.

KplKeegan wrote:

Where Farsight built his Enclave. It is a place the Tau consider 'forbidden' and gives them great concern that there's something buried around those worlds Daemon related. They're afraid of the Tau releasing something and having that something make a bee-line straight for Imperial Space, which is likely because Humans are a better food source than Tau.

Jefffar wrote:The Tau specifically considered it forbidden because of the Imperial border. The Ethereals wanted a primarily diplomatic expansion in that area, not a military one because the Water Caste has proven very effective at splitting off Imperial worlds and they didn't want to trigger a massive Imperium response.

forbidden because of buried demons or forbidden because of a border close to it?
i can't find anything stating it was quarantined because of demons and I doubt they care if anything they disturb runs off to hit their neighbours.

<quote of now-deleted text redacted --Janthkin>

KplKeegan wrote:

Or it could be a Space Marine Chapter Relic since its a Shrine World for the Scythes of the Emperor...


Source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arthas_Moloch

Its really not a chapter relic as it was found in pre-human ruins on a dead arftifact world where Farsight was attacked by unknown opponents who killed his etherals. The shrine world part was true maybe bevor the marines cleansed it.

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Not just the fans...even fluff says that Tau lose coherence and sense of purpose without guidance from an Ethereal. Let's say Farsight managed to avoid becoming 'overwhelmed'. If he's still in his right mind, first thing he would do would be to request a new Ethereal. But he didn't. He led his troops and civilian followers and dug themselves in and shut the Ethereals out. He doesn't even try to contact T'au at all. Something's up with him...

KplKeegan wrote:He's not possessed. He's not harboring some Necron Tech. He's considered a Renegade by Tau and its Ethereals.

Looks at weapon. fits old cron style , check.

KplKeegan wrote:

Whee Farsight built his Enclave. It is a place the Tau consider 'forbidden' and gives them great concern that there's something buried around those worlds Daemon related. They're afraid of the Tau releasing something and having that something make a bee-line straight for Imperial Space, which is likely because Humans are a better food source than Tau.