Nemesor Dave wrote:

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

You're flat out wrong, pure and simple. Please, for the love of your favorite deity, let this die. A roll is permitted to be rerolled, not an individual die (dice).

This thread is finished.

If only you could have come sooner with your opinion and final word, we could have saved the effort of making all of our well thought out arguments and rules lawyering. Unfortunately your argument is not RAW and is not supported by anything but your opinion.

What, the RAW that is 100% against your position, as it again ignores what "specific" means in the context of a rules system?

Youre wrong, and the last 10 pages just keep on confirming that you are still wrong.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

You're flat out wrong, pure and simple. Please, for the love of your favorite deity, let this die. A roll is permitted to be rerolled, not an individual die (dice).

This thread is finished.

If only you could have come sooner with your opinion and final word, we could have saved the effort of making all of our well thought out arguments and rules lawyering. Unfortunately your argument is not RAW and is not supported by anything but your opinion.

Dude!!

nos and I can't agree that red and green are different colors but we both can agree you're flat out wrong, have been proven wrong, and continue to show you just how wrong you are. Everyone has quoted RAW, including me, EXCEPT for you. To go on any further is trolling.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

You're flat out wrong, pure and simple. Please, for the love of your favorite deity, let this die. A roll is permitted to be rerolled, not an individual die (dice).

This thread is finished.

If only you could have come sooner with your opinion and final word, we could have saved the effort of making all of our well thought out arguments and rules lawyering. Unfortunately your argument is not RAW and is not supported by anything but your opinion.

What, the RAW that is 100% against your position, as it again ignores what "specific" means in the context of a rules system?

Youre wrong, and the last 10 pages just keep on confirming that you are still wrong.

The word "specific" does not mean what you're trying to force it to mean. Out of all of the arguments presented, this one is stretching the most and relies on a poor understanding of Sweeping Advance to draw an incorrect analogy.

"The word "specific" does not mean what you're trying to force it to mean. "

What, that when youre told you have to have specific permission to roll a component D6 *of a multiple D6* it just means you only have to have permission to reroll a D6 in general?

Lol

You dont understand specific vs general. Rerolling a D6 roll is a GENERAL permission to reroll a D6 roll. It is not the same as being able to reroll a component D6 of an XD6 roll, as you are specifically told you must have permission to do.

Give it up. You have no RAW backing - none at all. 11 pages now of you still being wrong, and counting.

Nemesor Dave wrote:
The word "specific" does not mean what you're trying to force it to mean.

Actually, problem is that you don't understand what specific means. "Specific" (adverb) means "explicit" (adverb). So it means exactly what everyone else but you have said it to mean.
And considering that "explicit" is the opposite of "implicit" and Chrono only gives implicit permission, there is no way that you can argue that Chrono gives explicit permission, which is what is required for Chrono to function as you want.

You're also forgetting that a d6 roll is different from a 2d6 roll. Both are singular nouns and are defined on pg 2 brb.
Anyway, it probably would be best if mods would just lock up this thread. Every argument Nemesor Dave has made have been shot down pages ago, and now he just keeps repeating them ad infinitum.

Luide wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:
The word "specific" does not mean what you're trying to force it to mean.

Actually, problem is that you don't understand what specific means. "Specific" (adverb) means "explicit" (adverb). So it means exactly what everyone else but you have said it to mean.
And considering that "explicit" is the opposite of "implicit" and Chrono only gives implicit permission, there is no way that you can argue that Chrono gives explicit permission, which is what is required for Chrono to function as you want.

Explicit permission to re-roll one D6 is specific.

Luide wrote:
You're also forgetting that a d6 roll is different from a 2d6 roll. Both are singular nouns and are defined on pg 2 brb.
Anyway, it probably would be best if mods would just lock up this thread. Every argument Nemesor Dave has made have been shot down pages ago, and now he just keeps repeating them ad infinitum.

"A Farseer with runes
of witnessing must roll an extra dice when taking
Psychic tests and discards the highest result"

If you roll 2D6 + 1 extra dice. And 2D6 is a single roll then according to you this is played like this:
1) I roll 2D6 and lets say I roll 5 and a 4. My 2D6 "roll" is 9.
2) I roll an extra D6 and I roll a 1.

Now I discard the highest result: the 2D6 roll of 9 is discarded. Runes of witnessing will never fail because the lowest "result" will always be 6 or less.

Sorry, but 2D6 is called a "roll" (singular) purely because of English grammar rules, not because of any rulebook definition. 2D6 + 1D6 is three D6 rolls.

No. It's 3 rolls of a die of which one is ignored.
You're given explicit permission (see how that works?) to investigate the individual dice.

You have no, zero, nada permission to override the "must" on a multi-d6 set.

rigeld2 wrote:No. It's 3 rolls of a die of which one is ignored.
You're given explicit permission (see how that works?) to investigate the individual dice.

You have no, zero, nada permission to override the "must" on a multi-d6 set.

So you agree, 3D6 is the same as three D6 rolls.

The "must" is to roll an extra dice. There is nothing about "permission to override" or investigate. I have no idea where you got that one from.

rigeld2 wrote:No. It's 3 rolls of a die of which one is ignored.

Or, in the case that is being discussed here. It's 2 rolls of a die of which 1 is re-rolled.

I understand both sides of the argument, I just don't understand how permissions to roll one of your dice got confusing, except for the fact that GW use D6 and die interchangeably.

Nos, you said

What, that when youre told you have to have specific permission to roll a component D6 *of a multiple D6* it just means you only have to have permission to reroll a D6 in general?

However, I pointed out that the rule used to make this claim was misquoted. Thus this particular position is invaild. The misquoted rule on this topic said 'when rolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none' but the correct rule reads 'when RErolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none.'

Now, the chronometron is not rerolling a 2d6 roll. Thus, the restriction is not there. I agree, if using the incorrect quote, I would be on your side on this. But with the correct rule in mind, and your quoted position now shown to be incorrect, I think you should revist this.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:No. It's 3 rolls of a die of which one is ignored.
You're given explicit permission (see how that works?) to investigate the individual dice.

You have no, zero, nada permission to override the "must" on a multi-d6 set.

So you agree, 3D6 is the same as three D6 rolls.

No, it's 3 rolls of a die. Just like 2d6 is 2 rolls of a die. Noun vs verb.

The "must" is to roll an extra dice. There is nothing about "permission to override" or investigate. I have no idea where you got that one from.

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

rigeld2 wrote:

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

As DevianID said above, we're not re-rolling 2D6 or 3D6, we're only re-rolling 1D6 so this does not apply in any case.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

As DevianID said above, we're not re-rolling 2D6 or 3D6, we're only re-rolling 1D6 so this does not apply in any case.

You don't have permission to do that. You're trying to re-roll part of a set. You must re-roll the entire set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:Nos, you said

What, that when youre told you have to have specific permission to roll a component D6 *of a multiple D6* it just means you only have to have permission to reroll a D6 in general?

However, I pointed out that the rule used to make this claim was misquoted. Thus this particular position is invaild. The misquoted rule on this topic said 'when rolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none' but the correct rule reads 'when RErolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none.'

Now, the chronometron is not rerolling a 2d6 roll. Thus, the restriction is not there. I agree, if using the incorrect quote, I would be on your side on this. But with the correct rule in mind, and your quoted position now shown to be incorrect, I think you should revist this.

A single die out of a 2d6 roll is *still* not a d6 roll. It's a roll of a d6, but since a d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules, and a 2d6 roll is explicitly not 2 1d6 rolls, you can't re-roll part of the set.

We went over this 10 pages ago.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

As DevianID said above, we're not re-rolling 2D6 or 3D6, we're only re-rolling 1D6 so this does not apply in any case.

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll. Unless you have explicit permission. The Chrono does not grant that explicit permission.

McNinja wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

As DevianID said above, we're not re-rolling 2D6 or 3D6, we're only re-rolling 1D6 so this does not apply in any case.

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll. Unless you have explicit permission. The Chrono does not grant that explicit permission.

Refer to my post about Runes of Warding a few posts back. Unless you address that issue, 2D6 is two D6 rolls, therefore it doesn't need to. It only needs to re-roll a single D6 out of two D6.

Nemesor Dave wrote:Refer to my post about Runes of Warding a few posts back. Unless you address that issue, 2D6 is two D6 rolls, therefore it doesn't need to. It only needs to re-roll a single D6 out of two D6.

I addressed that issue. It's a roll of multiple dice. Because RoW allows you to, you examine and drop the highest one.

It's still not a d6 roll, which is what Chrono allows you to re-roll.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

BRB page 2 wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

Nowhere special. You still have not shown *explicit* *specific* permission.

Saying to re-roll 1d6 is not explicitly specifying that you can re-roll part of a 2+d6 set.

As DevianID said above, we're not re-rolling 2D6 or 3D6, we're only re-rolling 1D6 so this does not apply in any case.

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll. Unless you have explicit permission. The Chrono does not grant that explicit permission.

Refer to my post about Runes of Warding a few posts back. Unless you address that issue, 2D6 is two D6 rolls, therefore it doesn't need to. It only needs to re-roll a single D6 out of two D6.

Runes of Warding- Psychic Test + an additional d6 -> take out highest result. I think we all know that they mean take out the highest single d6 roll. Nemesor Dave, I would appreciate if you would read my entire thing here before responding to it That goes for anyone else as well.

To me, the difference between a single d6 roll and a 2d6/3d6 roll isn't the total you get from rolling them. It's the fact that you rolled 2 or 3 d6 at the same time.

Runes of Warding says take out the highest result out of the now-3d6 (or 2d6+1d6) roll. Your question is "shouldn't we be able to take out the 2d6 roll, since it will almost always be the higest result?" My answer is that you are correct in stating that Xd6 rolls are multiple d6 rolls (and so can be divided up by the rules, like in Psychic tests how you can fail on 2 1's or 2 6's), but they are all rolled together and the dice added together for a total (or in the Psychic Test case, referred to as doubles, but keep in mind it is still an Ld Test, so the total must be added and compared to the models Ld value. Ordnance weapons specify that you roll 2 separate d6 and pick the highest result). However, the BRB page 2 explicity states that in order to re-roll part of an Xd6 roll, you must have clear, explicit rules saying you can. The Chrono does not say you can. Therefore, you cannot.

Again, it's the fact that you're rolling more than 1d6 at a time that makes 2d6,3d6, and 4d6 (Turbo-Penetrator, anyone) rolls unique and separate from singly-rolled d6 rolls (to hit and to-wound rolls, for instance).

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll.

McNinja, see my above post. The rule you are refrencing is incorrect. The correct statement is that you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 REROLL. Chronometron is not performing a 2d6 reroll. Thus, the exception about not rerolling part of a 2d6 reroll does not apply. This rule was quoted incorrectly in the forum topic earlier, leading to the misunderstanding I believe.

DevianID wrote:

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll.

McNinja, see my above post. The rule you are refrencing is incorrect. The correct statement is that you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 REROLL. Chronometron is not performing a 2d6 reroll. Thus, the exception about not rerolling part of a 2d6 reroll does not apply. This rule was quoted incorrectly in the forum topic earlier, leading to the misunderstanding I believe.

A 2d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules. A d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules.

What is giving you permission to attempt to re-roll part of a 2d6 roll? The chrono does not mention 2d6 rolls - it only mentions d6 rolls.

rigeld2 wrote:
A single die out of a 2d6 roll is *still* not a d6 roll. It's a roll of a d6, but since a d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules, and a 2d6 roll is explicitly not 2 1d6 rolls, you can't re-roll part of the set.

We went over this 10 pages ago.

So a single die out of a 2d6 roll is a roll of a D6. Chronometron allows the bearer or bearer's unit to re-roll "one of his D6 rolls", then it can be re-rolled. The rule (pasted below) does not say re-roll a 1D6, it says "one of the unit's D6 rolls" which implies multiple D6s are rolled.

* Chronometron: A model with a chronometron can re-roll one of his D6 rolls each phase. If the bearer is in a unit, this ability can be used to instead re-roll one of the unit's D6 rolls each phase

When I started reading this thread I thought leadership, scatter, etc. could not be re-rolled. Then I read the arguments for and against and I read the rules again and found out I was mistaken.

I think part of the problem is a lot of people reading this thread, don't have the rules in front of them and they think they remember what they say. I posted a longer post before with the actual rules text (no editorializing), so I won't do that again. Refer back to my prior post or read the BRB and Necron Codex to get the specific rules.

Here is my summary of the "can't re-roll" position, as I understand it (and held prior to reading the 11+ pages of this thread)
1) A 2D6 roll is different from a 1D6 roll and is not 2 D6 rolls.
2) Whenever you re-roll a 2D6 (or 3D6), the rules say you must re-roll all of the dice, not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll says different.
3) Chronometron rule only allows the re-roll of a single D6.

The flaw is 1), according to the BRB, a xD6 roll is made by rolling x D6s and adding them together (In the case of a 2D6 roll, rolling 2 dice and adding them together). .

Here is my summary of the "can re-roll" positon, as I understand it.
1) According to the BRB, a D6 is synonymous with one six-sided dice (which Americans refer to as a die, not sure what word British people use).
2) A 2D6 roll is either done by rolling one D6 (dice, die) twice and add the 2 results together or roll 2 dice (D6) and add the results together.
3) Whenever you re-roll a 2D6 (or 3D6), the rules say you must re-roll all of the dice, not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll says different.
4) Chronometron allows you to re-roll a single D6 (six-sided dice/die) each phase.

Conclusion: If the Chronometron rule had specified a single 1D6 roll, that would prevent re-rolling one die of a 2D6 roll (since 1D6 is a specific type of roll not part of a 2D6). If the re-roll 2D6 rule said you must re-roll both or none, that would prevent re-rolling one D6 of the 2D6 roll (since the re-roll rule only allows you to re-roll a single D6). In this case, the rule granting the re-roll says re-roll a single dice, so you can pick one of the 2 dice you just rolled and re-roll it.

Anyone disagree?

Even with Runes of Warding, however, it is still not a D6 roll. A D6 roll is a 1d6 roll. Regardless of whether or not you interpret each die individually or not in a multi-die roll, unless otherwise specified (i.e. drop the highest/lowest) all the dice are part of the result, and unless it explicitly states you can re-roll part of a multi-die roll, you cannot.

Rigeld2, you made the same mistake.

What is giving you permission to attempt to re-roll part of a 2d6 roll

The restriction on rerolling part of the 2d6 is only when making a 2d6 reroll. Your statement, about 2d6 rolls, is not applicable. If your corrected statement was:
"What is giving you permission to attempt to re-roll part of a 2d6 REroll"
Then I would agree with you. But, we are not making a 2d6 reroll here.

Now, I am not claiming my position is right based on this keep in mind. I am instead trying to fix the faulty quote that was used earlier, that I believe started the opinion that rerolling a portion of a 2d6 roll in some way matters because of page 2. It does not. Page 2 was quoted incorrectly, it only applies when allowed a reroll of 2d6, the entire 2d6, and when you have a reroll of 2d6, both the two dice must be rerolled. A good rule to have, but not applicable to chronometron.

IMHO, the crux of the argument lies only within the wording of Chronometron. "You may reroll one of your d6 rolls." This is the only rule that is really debatable, in that were the designers specific that it was 1d6 rolls, or instead d6 rolls, including the d6 rolls that constitute part of a 2d6 roll.

I believe the chronometron is the former, as we have proof that a 2d6 roll is two 1d6 rolls, and before you sum them you step in with the chronometron, just like you step in with runes of warding. However, there is a case to be made that the designers intended something different. But such case, again, is not to be found in the section stating 'reroll all or none of a 2d6 REROLL.'

EDIT: Happyjew,

and unless it explicitly states you can re-roll part of a multi-die roll, you cant

Again incorrect, as above. You cant reroll part of a multi-die REROLL. This is quite different from what you said. As above, the rule was misquoted earlier, but it must be a multi-die reroll. Chronometron is not a multidie reroll, thus no restriction.

Tye_Informer wrote:So a single die out of a 2d6 roll is a roll of a D6.

No, it's not. It's part of a 2d6 roll.
A d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules.
A 2d6 roll is a specific thing in the rules.
A 2d6 roll is *not* 2 d6 rolls.

Chronometron allows the bearer or bearer's unit to re-roll "one of his D6 rolls", then it can be re-rolled. The rule (pasted below) does not say re-roll a 1D6, it says "one of the unit's D6 rolls" which implies multiple D6s are rolled.

Yes - as in when shooting, there are multiple d6 rolls. Taking wounds, there are multiple d6 rolls. Difficult Terrain tests, there are multiple d6 rolls. Dangerous Terrain tests, there are multiple d6 rolls.

The flaw is 1), according to the BRB, a xD6 roll is made by rolling x D6s and adding them together (In the case of a 2D6 roll, rolling 2 dice and adding them together). .

That is not what the BRB says. It says "Roll the indicated number of dice and add the scores together, so a 2D6 roll is two dice rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12" It does not say "Make 2 d6 rolls and add them together."

Conclusion: If the Chronometron rule had specified a single 1D6 roll, that would prevent re-rolling one die of a 2D6 roll (since 1D6 is a specific type of roll not part of a 2D6). If the re-roll 2D6 rule said you must re-roll both or none, that would prevent re-rolling one D6 of the 2D6 roll (since the re-roll rule only allows you to re-roll a single D6). In this case, the rule granting the re-roll says re-roll a single dice, so you can pick one of the 2 dice you just rolled and re-roll it.

1d6 and d6 are synonymous in the rules, so this position makes no sense.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:Rigeld2, you made the same mistake.

What is giving you permission to attempt to re-roll part of a 2d6 roll

The restriction on rerolling part of the 2d6 is only when making a 2d6 reroll. Your statement, about 2d6 rolls, is not applicable. If your corrected statement was:
"What is giving you permission to attempt to re-roll part of a 2d6 REroll"
Then I would agree with you. But, we are not making a 2d6 reroll here.

You're misanalyzing my statement.

You have a 2d6 roll. You have permission to re-roll a d6 roll. What is giving you permission to re-roll part of a 2d6 roll?

Rigeld, Dice and d6 are synonymous in the rules. I didnt see your part about d6=1d6, but I am not looking at the rules currently, so Ill go with it. Thus, per your quoted rule.

"Roll the indicated number of 1d6 and add the scores together, so a 2d6 roll is two 1d6 rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12"

What is giving you permission to re-roll part of a 2d6 roll

Edit:Because there is no restriction on rerolling part of a 2d6 roll (note I did not say a 2d6 reroll), and because a 2d6 roll is two rolls of 1d6, and the chronometron allows a reroll of a d6 rolled. So in this case, the chronometron would interupt the summation of the two d6 rolled as part of a 2d6 roll.

DevianID wrote:Nos, you said

What, that when youre told you have to have specific permission to roll a component D6 *of a multiple D6* it just means you only have to have permission to reroll a D6 in general?

However, I pointed out that the rule used to make this claim was misquoted. Thus this particular position is invaild. The misquoted rule on this topic said 'when rolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none' but the correct rule reads 'when RErolling a 2d6 roll, reroll all or none.'

DevianId, your problem is that you're still thinking that verb is a noun. They're not same, and it's easy to see where you go wrong because of that.

All quotations with following emphasis: ROLL is denoted for roll (noun) and roll for roll (verb). These are here so that people don't mistake nouns for verbs, and thus make wrong interpretations about what the sentence actually means.
Definition of 2D6 etc

pg 2 brb wrote:You may also be told to roll a number of dice in one go, which is written as 2D6, 3D6, and so on. Roll the indicated number of dice and add the scores together, so a 2D6 ROLL is two dice rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12.

From here, it's plain that 2d6 ROLL is a single instance.

pg 2 brb wrote:If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 ROLL, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-ROLL explicitly specifies otherwise.

Here, we also see that 2d6 or 3d6 ROLL is a single instance. And without specific, explicit rule, you're not allowed to re-roll only part of the ROLL (in this case, single D6).

Now, Chronometron rules:

pg 85 C:Necrons wrote:A model with a chronometron can re-roll one of his D6 ROLLS each phase.

So first we start with the question: Is the ROLL we want to re-roll a D6 (singular) ROLL. In case of a D6 ROLL (a ROLL, where you roll single six-sided die), answer is yes. In case of a 2D6 ROLL, answer is no. Simple reason is that D6 ROLL (single instance) gives total between 1-6 (roll a single die) and 2D6 ROLL (single instance) gives total between 2-12 (two dice rolled and added together), and those are obviously not same.

pg 2 brb wrote:D6+2 means roll a dice and add 2 to the score, giving a total of between 3 and 8

The argument about Chronometron allowing to re-roll only 1 die (a D6) from 2D6 ROLL has been proven wrong time and a time again, as it doesn't have the explicit permission required to do so.

Okey, now I think I've made it about as clear as it can be made. If you have any arguments, please quote the relevant rules.

Edit: looks like quite few posts made while writing this. Reason why Chronometron says one of his D6 ROLLS (multiple) is because it is assumed that Chronometron (or his unit) can make more than one D6 ROLL per phase. For example, 20 man warrior squad with Cryptek can easily make 40 separate (to hit) D6 ROLLS in shooting phase. Note that each of those ROLLS is separate, even though normally one would pick up a bunch of dice and throw them together.

DevianID wrote:Rigeld, Dice and d6 are synonymous in the rules. I didnt see your part about d6=1d6, but I am not looking at the rules currently, so Ill go with it. Thus, per your quoted rule.

"Roll the indicated number of 1d6 and add the scores together, so a 2d6 roll is two 1d6 rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12"

A d6 roll is synonymous with a 1d6 roll, and neither is synonymous with "dice". Dice is the same thing as a six sided die...

Using your interpretation is "Roll the indicated number of 1d6 rolls and add the scores together, so a 2d6 roll is two 1d6s rolls rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12."

A [d6 roll] is a specific thing. It is not part of a [2d6 roll]. A [2d6 roll] is made up of 2 rolled dice.

so a 2D6 ROLL 'is' two dice rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12.

'is' is the verb here, right, and 'two dice rolled' is the modifing term? Adverb is it called? Been a while since classes, but how does this change your position?

neither is synonymous with "dice".

hmm, thought for sure on page 2 dice were synonymous with d6. Rigeld, where did you find the bit about 1d6=d6?

DevianID wrote:

so a 2D6 ROLL 'is' two dice rolled and added together for a score of between 2-12.

'is' is the verb here, right, and 'two dice rolled' is the modifing term? Adverb is it called? Been a while since classes, but how does this change your position?

neither is synonymous with "dice".

hmm, thought for sure on page 2 dice were synonymous with d6. Rigeld, where did you find the bit about 1d6=d6?

page2 wrote:Almost all of the dice rolls in
Warhammer 40,000 use standard six-sided dice (usually
referred to as ‘D6’).

That does not say that "dice" is synonymous with a [d6 roll].

I'm putting brackets around [d6 roll] because it seems like you're focusing on them as separate words. You shouldn't. They're one term.

edit: I didn't actually find it - Nemesor Dave did:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:If I didn't have a 2 year old passed out in my lap with my brb in the other room I'd demonstrate.

p.8 roll a D6 for a characteristic test. Probably countless other places. I'd agree 1D6 = D6.

So Rigeld, dice are referred to as d6, reinforced by your quote. I thought we agreed on that. Where did you get the bit about dice being d6 rolls? That was not in my position.

DevianID wrote:

Unless Superboy Prime punched reality again, you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 roll.

McNinja, see my above post. The rule you are refrencing is incorrect. The correct statement is that you still can't re-roll part of a 2d6 REROLL. Chronometron is not performing a 2d6 reroll. Thus, the exception about not rerolling part of a 2d6 reroll does not apply. This rule was quoted incorrectly in the forum topic earlier, leading to the misunderstanding I believe.

I'm not entirely sure what you just said. You can't re-roll a re-roll. The rue is about re-rolling a 2d6 or 3d6 roll.

DevianID wrote:So Rigeld, dice are referred to as d6, reinforced by your quote. I thought we agreed on that. Where did you get the bit about dice being d6 rolls? That was not in my position.

That's my point.

Chrono allows you to re-roll a d6 roll. A d6 roll is not part of a 2d6 roll (it's made up of 2 rolled dice). You cannot re-roll part of the 2d6 roll.

Rigeld, the 2 rolled dice are d6. Each is a d6 roll that gets summed with the other.

False. A d6 roll is something in its own right - its not a part of a 2d6 roll.

To roll 2d6 you first roll two 1d6, then you sum them together.

DevianID wrote:To roll 2d6 you first roll two 1d6, then you sum them together.

Yes. (technically it's roll two dice and add them together, but dice and d6 are synonymous).

Now you just need to understand that a 1d6 roll (which is what a Chrono allows you to re-roll) is NOT the same as the 1d6 that you roll to add into a 2d6 roll.

There's your misunderstanding. You're equating the two with no basis in the rules.

1d6 roll != 1d6

The "roll" means it's the end result - the whole enchilada - what determines your fate. And that's what the Chrono allows you to re-roll.

I'm not sure how else to word this - but I've been saying the same thing for 10 pages.

DevianID wrote:To roll 2d6 you first roll two 1d6, then you sum them together.

And that is the crux of the issue you're equating a d6 roll with an individual die and that's not what the rules state: a xd6 roll is defined as rolling x number of dice and summing the results of the dice rolled (page 2 of the BRB). Thus a d6 roll is one die rolled and the summed result is the result of the die. A 2d6 roll is two dice rolled summing the results of the two dice. A 3d6 roll is three dice rolled summing the results of the three dice.

A xd6 roll is NOT the summing or x number of d6 rolls. All though a d6 roll only uses one die it is not a substitution for a die itself. Thus, a 2d6 roll is NOT composed of two d6 rolls summing the result of the two rolls it's the summing of two dice rolled together. Page two is clear on this.

Chronom allows the reroll of a d6 roll not an individual d6 (dice).





* edited for spelling

never mind

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

DevianID wrote:To roll 2d6 you first roll two 1d6, then you sum them together.

And that is the crux of the issue you're equating a d6 roll with an individual die and that's not what the rules state: a xd6 roll is defined as rolling x number of dice and summing the results of the dice rolled (page 2 of the BRB). Thus a d6 roll is one die rolled and the summed result is the result of the die. A 2d6 roll is two dice rolled summing the results of the two dice. A 3d6 roll is three dice rolled summing the results of the three dice.

A xd6 roll is NOT the summing or x number of d6 rolls. All though a d6 roll only uses one die it is not a substitution for a die itself. Thus, a 2d6 roll is NOT composed of two d6 rolls summing the result of the two rolls it's the summing of two dice rolled together. Page two is clear on this.

Chronom allows the reroll of a d6 roll not an individual d6 (dice).





* edited for spelling

Very interesting argument that was never FAQ. Has Dakka FAQ on here not clarified it? Unable to load it on my phone, but from what I remember historically gw was the European version of dnd. There are randomization rolls and d3 rolls. I believe when they said 2d6 it is actually supposed to say d12 on 2d6 is not considered 2 dice but a combination of 2 dice rolled. This is coming from a fellow necron player, and since 3rd edition it has always been worded 2d6 iirc.