Yes, we should just suck it up and shut up because thats the mature thing to do? Its not that bad you know, its just some holes.

"So.....

Why didn't you ask for a replacement/get a refund then?"

Well at the time I did'nt know about the bad quality of Finecast and just went home with it, opened it and well.. got disapointed. But never the less I was to lazy to go back and complain as I know in the end it wouldnt matter anyway as I would just get another crappy figure. Im just bying metalfigures from e-bay now instead.
And i can add that i never go into a GW stor anymore as I just get harrassed to death while I'm in there. Can't stand it. Internet is the place I'm shopping now.

NAVARRO wrote:Yes, we should just suck it up and shut up because thats the mature thing to do? Its not that bad you know, its just some holes.

Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

Gravity wrote:"So.....

Why didn't you ask for a replacement/get a refund then?"

Well at the time I did'nt know about the bad quality of Finecast and just went home with it, opened it and well.. got disapointed. But never the less I was to lazy to go back and complain as I know in the end it wouldnt matter anyway as I would just get another crappy figure. Im just bying metalfigures from e-bay now instead.
And i can add that i never go into a GW stor anymore as I just get harrassed to death while I'm in there. Can't stand it. Internet is the place I'm shopping now.

Sorry to hear that, but why do you get harrassed may I ask? If your going for online shopping alone yes it would be wise not to buy finecast because there you cannot really check if the mini is at least 50% ok on the blister.

The good thing about these posts is that more people are now aware of FC problems.

Past weeks I have been looking at friend's collection of minis from rogue trader era and they are still OK and quite collectable, I wonder if in 20 or more years from now there's even one finecast on the market... Fragility, melting, bendiness etc These will not last you long...

Forgot to mention that I also purchased Eldar Ranges in Please don't try and bypass the swearfilter, it's there for a reason. Thanks at the same time as the Avatar. All of the rifles are bent, alot, there are moldlines in the face on 3/5 Rangers, and the mold lines are huge. There are bubbles on all of the models and the worst of all is that on one of the models there is an area on the back that I don't know what is supposed to be there because its so messed up. Do I have to become a greenstuff master?

I will never buy Finecast again, and I hope everyone else stops to. because in the end its the customers that decide what's selling.

Breotan...

I think the point has been made so we can drop the macros now please. ta.

Macros? You mean the pictures? Sure.

Ouze wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:In a world where nothing is perfect or ever can be, this seems a little extreme.

Not to Mercedes. Not to Acura. not to Lexus. Not to STI, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Rolex, or a host of luxury branded products.
GW is charging luxury brand prices. I expect luxury brand product.

While I heartily agree with the thrust of your sentiment (that luxury products should have a higher level of quality) I also agree you took it a hair too far. I don't think it's possible to mass produce things with never have problems or that slip by QC (for example, of of the brands you cite, Mercedes, has 90 million hits for "Mercedes engine issues", and last year had to recall almost 140K cars because the cruise control doesn't shut off when you hit the brakes. Less than 3 months ago, another brand you used as an example, Acura, recalled 603k vehicles - more than half a million vehicles - because their airbags over-pressurized and exploded when triggered.

Kind of makes bubbles in plastic army mans seem less important, so let me segue back to the point - perfection is unattainable no matter the quality of the brand, and what defines them is how close they get to attaining it, and what they do when they fall short.

I still agree thoroughly with you that GWS is apparently not delivering the quality you'd expect from a luxury brand.

I'd like to add that those car companies are doing the right thing and recalling their bad product. Their not saying "nothing to see hear, move along".

Sorry for macros my fault really, just wanted to introduce a bit of humor

mwnciboo wrote:

In a world where nothing is perfect or ever can be, this seems a little extreme.

Prior to GW's release of finecast I was a customer of 20 years. They were pretty close to perfect then with metal and then plastic. I rarely had issues.

Now they are having folks open the box before you leave and asking if you can fix the problems yoruself. And you dont see a diference?

GW pretty much lost my business with finecast. I don't say that with angst... it's just turned out to be true.

I have had the funds to put toward models I want, and I just find myself not wanting models in finecast... add to that the fact that many of their best "special" sculpts are released only in that material, and it just drained any interest that I had.

I can justify spending a lot of money on metal, plastic, or good resin models... I just can't bring myself to do it with finecast.

I also say this having been open to the material at first, and having bought a few figures of it. Having to go through blisters to make sure I get the "best" one in-store... it's just something I never would have expected from GW, and I can't fathom why (other than corporate slowness) they haven't moved to change the material already.

It's going to cost them sales, certainly... you can tell someone something that's black is white up to a certain degree, but for me this just went beyond it. The fact that they're having to urge stores to open packages in-store just shows that this is actually the case... they're selling an inferior product/material at the moment, and losing sales because of it. If they want to continue with the medium, they need to talk to Forgeworld and figure out how to do it at least a little better.

wowsmash wrote:

Ouze wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:In a world where nothing is perfect or ever can be, this seems a little extreme.

Not to Mercedes. Not to Acura. not to Lexus. Not to STI, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Rolex, or a host of luxury branded products.
GW is charging luxury brand prices. I expect luxury brand product.

While I heartily agree with the thrust of your sentiment (that luxury products should have a higher level of quality) I also agree you took it a hair too far. I don't think it's possible to mass produce things with never have problems or that slip by QC (for example, of of the brands you cite, Mercedes, has 90 million hits for "Mercedes engine issues", and last year had to recall almost 140K cars because the cruise control doesn't shut off when you hit the brakes. Less than 3 months ago, another brand you used as an example, Acura, recalled 603k vehicles - more than half a million vehicles - because their airbags over-pressurized and exploded when triggered.

Kind of makes bubbles in plastic army mans seem less important, so let me segue back to the point - perfection is unattainable no matter the quality of the brand, and what defines them is how close they get to attaining it, and what they do when they fall short.

I still agree thoroughly with you that GWS is apparently not delivering the quality you'd expect from a luxury brand.

I'd like to add that those car companies are doing the right thing and recalling their bad product. Their not saying "nothing to see hear, move along".

You're also talking production of thousands of vehicles which, in turn, have thousands of moving parts...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I also say this having been open to the material at first, and having bought a few figures of it. Having to go through blisters to make sure I get the "best" one in-store... it's just something I never would have expected from GW, and I can't fathom why (other than corporate slowness) they haven't moved to change the material already.

Indeed, as was I. I was thinking at the time of a full SOB force as they could be converted more easily than the metal minis (n ew heads etc.). No freaking way. FOW has my dollars now.

There should be a partial refund to those who but this trashy product....Or a recall & get credit......Or the new "fixed" product should be $less$ money....

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

There's at least three of us.

n0t_u wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

There's at least three of us.

Four....

"I am Spartacus!"

n0t_u wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

There's at least three of us.

There's a Hell of a lot more than that.

BrassScorpion wrote:A friend of mine just bought a bunch of the Eldar Aspect Warriors in Finecast and they are pretty terrible. Tabards that aren't fully formed on Banshees, bent swords, bubbles and gaps on Firedragons. He is not pleased and I don't think he'll be buying more than what he's already got.

That really sucks. Banshees and Dragons....I was going to make that very same order next week. Metals from eBay now I guess.

wowsmash wrote:

I'd like to add that those car companies are doing the right thing and recalling their bad product. Their not saying "nothing to see hear, move along".

Exactly. The car companies are fixing their issues, they're not selling you the pieces to fix the faulty cruise control yourself.

RiTides wrote:GW pretty much lost my business with finecast. I don't say that with angst... it's just turned out to be true.

I have had the funds to put toward models I want, and I just find myself not wanting models in finecast... add to that the fact that many of their best "special" sculpts are released only in that material, and it just drained any interest that I had.

I can justify spending a lot of money on metal, plastic, or good resin models... I just can't bring myself to do it with finecast.

I also say this having been open to the material at first, and having bought a few figures of it. Having to go through blisters to make sure I get the "best" one in-store... it's just something I never would have expected from GW, and I can't fathom why (other than corporate slowness) they haven't moved to change the material already.

It's going to cost them sales, certainly... you can tell someone something that's black is white up to a certain degree, but for me this just went beyond it. The fact that they're having to urge stores to open packages in-store just shows that this is actually the case... they're selling an inferior product/material at the moment, and losing sales because of it. If they want to continue with the medium, they need to talk to Forgeworld and figure out how to do it at least a little better.

Exactly this! No rancor on my end, but I simply have no desire to buy anything in Finecast. Plastic and "real" resin? Sure. But Finecast leaves me completely uninterested and nothing GW's released, so far, has changed that feeling.

Valete,

JohnS

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

You mean 99%.

I can't think of any that aren't constantly complaining about GW.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

You mean 99%.

I can't think of any that aren't constantly complaining about GW.

*cough*

I take a bit of offense to this lol...

As to the material issue: I've just recently gotten forgeworld resin, before that my only experience with anything of that sort were my plastic warjacks. All of those materials are a pain in the butt to deal with, and GW plastic has been the best I've dealt with. I just kinda wish that GW would stop producing things in finecast till they fix a majority of the issues... I feel like they're just digging a hole :-/

Alfndrate wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

You mean 99%.

I can't think of any that aren't constantly complaining about GW.

*cough*

I take a bit of offense to this lol...

As to the material issue: I've just recently gotten forgeworld resin, before that my only experience with anything of that sort were my plastic warjacks. All of those materials are a pain in the butt to deal with, and GW plastic has been the best I've dealt with. I just kinda wish that GW would stop producing things in finecast till they fix a majority of the issues... I feel like they're just digging a hole :-/

Oh there digging a hole, a money pit.

I hope the door hits GW's ass on their way out.

I think the fact that the problems aren't being addressed is more possible evidence to the rumour that Finecast is just a stop gap until they go all-plastic.

MightyGodzilla wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:A friend of mine just bought a bunch of the Eldar Aspect Warriors in Finecast and they are pretty terrible. Tabards that aren't fully formed on Banshees, bent swords, bubbles and gaps on Firedragons. He is not pleased and I don't think he'll be buying more than what he's already got.

That really sucks. Banshees and Dragons....I was going to make that very same order next week. Metals from eBay now I guess.

I purchased 6 boxes of Wracks and they have been terrible. The wrack with 2 heads in most of the boxes has been completely unusable. The feet on most are so bad I plan on covering them with static grass, and the weapons snap off so easily during painting that I cant see these ever making past a few months on a playing table or tournament. I complained to GW and they sent me a free box of models. These 5 were worse than the other boxes.....These are my last fine cast purchases outside individual models. It is easy to say I can fix one model but when you have 40 in front of you and most are well below anyones standard (especially considering what they cost) it gets frustrating.

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think the fact that the problems aren't being addressed is more possible evidence to the rumour that Finecast is just a stop gap until they go all-plastic.

Nope.

If that rumour had any little bit of truth to it, then newer models would be made in plastic and Failcrap would be used exclusively to replace the existing metal models.

Since newer models are still being released in Failcrap we can assume that Failcrap is here to stay and that the problems with it aren't being addressed because either GW doesn't give a crap or because they simply can't find a solution to address them using the technology that they have (and don't give enough of a crap to spend more money and switch to more reliable casting methods).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fishboy wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:A friend of mine just bought a bunch of the Eldar Aspect Warriors in Finecast and they are pretty terrible. Tabards that aren't fully formed on Banshees, bent swords, bubbles and gaps on Firedragons. He is not pleased and I don't think he'll be buying more than what he's already got.

That really sucks. Banshees and Dragons....I was going to make that very same order next week. Metals from eBay now I guess.

I purchased 6 boxes of Wracks and they have been terrible. The wrack with 2 heads in most of the boxes has been completely unusable. The feet on most are so bad I plan on covering them with static grass, and the weapons snap off so easily during painting that I cant see these ever making past a few months on a playing table or tournament. I complained to GW and they sent me a free box of models. These 5 were worse than the other boxes.....These are my last fine cast purchases outside individual models. It is easy to say I can fix one model but when you have 40 in front of you and most are well below anyones standard (especially considering what they cost) it gets frustrating.

And yet you still took their substandard product and handed them your money AND are stating that you will happily do so again in the future... that frustration mustn't be running very high me thinks...

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

This is bs.

mwnciboo wrote:

loki old fart wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

A lot of people don't ask for refunds. they just never ever buy anything from that vendor again. Many people view "great customer service" not as what happens when you get a bad product, but insuring you don't get bad product in the first place.

Wise words

In a world where nothing is perfect or ever can be, this seems a little extreme.

@mwnciboo: Unfortunately, it happens all of the time. It's not the customers that complain that you should worry about. They're just the tip of the iceberg. It's the ones that just up and take their business elsewhere without bothering to tell you that really hurt in the end.

wowsmash wrote:
I'd like to add that those car companies are doing the right thing and recalling their bad product. Their not saying "nothing to see hear, move along".

Exactly. Make a darn recall when your products are this flawed. Admit on your website and/or through emails that you're struggling with product quality, and then FIX it.

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think the fact that the problems aren't being addressed is more possible evidence to the rumour that Finecast is just a stop gap until they go all-plastic.

I haven't seen any evidence or rumors that the existing Finecast and/or metal products will be switched to plastic. Do you have a source? I'd love to hear it because I am NOT a fan of Finecast. I am also not a fan of using the terms Failcost, Finecost, and the like as it's rather lame and was never funny. Just get to the issue and leave comedy to people that are good at it, ok?

Slinky wrote:

Surtur wrote:

Slinky wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Careful Nagashek! With that kind of attitude someone might just accuse you of ‘band wagoning’.

Or of not being suitably mature and laid back about your hobby?

Mature people just don't give a damn?

It was a reference to some ignore-list worthy ranting on a different thread

Oh sorry, I missed the sarcasm.

kronk wrote:I haven't seen any evidence or rumors that the existing Finecast and/or metal products will be switched to plastic. Do you have a source? I'd love to hear it because I am NOT a fan of Finecast. I am also not a fan of using the terms Failcost, Finecost, and the like as it's rather lame and was never funny. Just get to the issue and leave comedy to people that are good at it, ok?

I've seen it suggested on the forums though I heard it elsewhere some time back.

Anyway, I don't see that the fact they make entirely new figures in Finecast undermines the point; Finecast will be around for a while yet, it's not a *very* temporary measure but I think it seems reasonable that it has a limited shelf life. They are currently doing single plastic figures after all. It's just my impression that if they don't appear to be investing in improving Finecast after a year of problems... maybe it's because they don't see it worth the long term investment. That's just the thought that came to mind, I hadn't really considered it before.

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think the fact that the problems aren't being addressed is more possible evidence to the rumour that Finecast is just a stop gap until they go all-plastic.

I'd love to believe that, and I sincerely hope that it's true, but they keep releasing new models (some of them quite large) in Finecost.

krazynadechukr wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

There's at least three of us.

Four....

"I am Spartacus!"

No I am Spartacus!

Frazzled wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im like the only 1% of the DCM that doesnt defend GW ....

There's at least three of us.

Four....

"I am Spartacus!"

No I am Spartacus!

No I'm Spartacus!!

Ouze wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:In a world where nothing is perfect or ever can be, this seems a little extreme.

Not to Mercedes. Not to Acura. not to Lexus. Not to STI, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Rolex, or a host of luxury branded products.
GW is charging luxury brand prices. I expect luxury brand product.

While I heartily agree with the thrust of your sentiment (that luxury products should have a higher level of quality) I also agree you took it a hair too far. I don't think it's possible to mass produce things with never have problems or that slip by QC (for example, of of the brands you cite, Mercedes, has 90 million hits for "Mercedes engine issues", and last year had to recall almost 140K cars because the cruise control doesn't shut off when you hit the brakes. Less than 3 months ago, another brand you used as an example, Acura, recalled 603k vehicles - more than half a million vehicles - because their airbags over-pressurized and exploded when triggered.

Kind of makes bubbles in plastic army mans seem less important, so let me segue back to the point - perfection is unattainable no matter the quality of the brand, and what defines them is how close they get to attaining it, and what they do when they fall short.

I still agree thoroughly with you that GWS is apparently not delivering the quality you'd expect from a luxury brand.

And I agree that a 100% success rate is not a reasonable request. However a better than 75% fail rate (speaking only from my own empirical observation) is not a reasonable burden for the consumer to bear. Maybe we got unlucky. Super, super, crazy unlucky. I mean sure, I've seen my dice rolls go that badly before. But even when they had to make a fix to something fresh off the line because they couldn't find a perfect version, there has to be something really wrong with the situation above and beyond simple luck. That's like a tournament judge checking into why the dice rolls are so bad in my game, discovering that the 4, 5, and 6's had been left off my dice, painted them on, and allowed the game to proceed from the half way point.

Let me preface by saying I am neither a GW Supporter or a GW Detractor. I have introduced people to GW products likewise I have told them other companies that supply models as well. All depending on what the price point/quality/purpose of said model is.

I have purchased GW "Finecast" I have yet to have an issue but I follow certain rules. The biggest is the one thing I will support until I stop gaming,

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BRICK AND MORTAR STORE!

Sure I could save about another 5-10% by buying online. But on a $20 blister that is at most $2. By supporting my FLGS I can look at the blisters and give them a shake before purchasing. If the model is a poor casting (which I have seen plenty of) I leave it on the shelf, if it is a good casting I look at it a little closer trying to pick it apart before I even take it to the counter and with out opening the package. That being said other than bent swords (which I had to deal with on metal) I haven't had any issue with my "Finecast" models.

As for stuff that does not come in blisters, I will not buy it in "Finecast" right now. I pick up stuff from other companies or I look at our FLGS's "Swap table." Right now as it stands my personal policy on "Finecast" is if I can't see the resin in the package, I am not comfortable with it. If I can't spend 1 minutes shaking a package, I am not comfortable with it.

All things will pass in time... I am sure this will be the case with "Finecast."

The problem is, sometimes even looking in the blister you can't see the flaws (the small bubbles / pitting became a lot more obvious when I primed). Or, if you don't know detail should be in a location, how can you know it's missing? Or it's on the back side of the model...

Some of these are alleviated by opening the blister, but then you have to go through the hassle of getting refunded if they don't have another in stock, maybe you paid for it on a credit card... etc etc.

Just a bummer, and something that's not worth doing and takes the joy out of buying a model for me... and thus makes me not buy GW's models, since a lot of the ones I'd have liked are finecast.

Bex wrote: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BRICK AND MORTAR STORE!

My local brick and mortar store is a GW. So no.

And I don't save an extra 5%-10% by going online. I save an extra 40%-50%.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bex wrote: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BRICK AND MORTAR STORE!

My local brick and mortar store is a GW. So no.

And I don't save an extra 5%-10% by going online. I save an extra 40%-50%.

exactly this. Sure if I'm buying anything less than $20 total I'll just buy it in store so there's no shipping or what have you. But when I'm ordering $800 worth of models in one go, 25% off is a big margin.

The ONLY reasons I've spent a dime in my local GW is because it's the only store within 30 minutes that has gaming space, and the one man manager is a cool guy who isn't some mindless retail drone.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Bex wrote: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BRICK AND MORTAR STORE!

My local brick and mortar store is a GW. So no.

And I don't save an extra 5%-10% by going online. I save an extra 40%-50%.

Ya but your aussies have been getting the short end of the stick from GW for years.

I live in Canada so we get the 'screw you canada' tax also. I used to buy used stuff as I didn't want to support GW directly anymore. Now I just look at the prices and go wow sucks to be you guys supporting GW. =o]

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think the fact that the problems aren't being addressed is more possible evidence to the rumour that Finecast is just a stop gap until they go all-plastic.

The problem with that is that metal is a better stopgap material than Finecast is.

I just don't understand why they think they need a special material to make HQ units. It's a virtual pricing issue in my eyes. They make HQs out of a "special" material so they can charge more. I would pay the same for a very well done plastic version of the same model if they threw in a couple of alternate arms or faces or whatever. Especially if the quality was the same as all of the plastic models I've bought. I have had no issues with many sprues of necrons, which are very frail models, but they can't make one small sprue of an HQ chaos character in finecast without it being garbage? GW is AWESOME at plastics, and they need to just embrace it instead of trying to replace the old metals. A good sculpt is a good sculpt, and GW plastics are worthy.

These are my experiences, and thoughts on Finecast.

The first model I bought was Lelith Hesperax. I'd seen her on the website, all through November 2011, and was there thinking "This looks like a really cool model." So, when it came to payday that month, I ended up buying the model when I was at the Next Town, which is where the nearest GW store is. I was really pleased, and glued her together. I also got at the same time the Lhamean figure, because she looked interesting.

I spent weeks looking at them - especially Lelith - thinking "it doesn't look quite right." I was comparing the model to the figure, and was seeing this rather worrying trend to lurch forwards. Maybe she'd been down the pub all afternoon to prepare for a raid on a planet. All I know is that I noticed that the nose wasn't moulded perfectly, the spikes on the legs were a mess, and the right foot had problems. I was deeply irritated, because I didn;t know by that time where the receipt had gone, so couldn't do much.

Except I spent days on Google, looking at pictures of her, and saw people had done conversions. So, I looked at them, and got the perfect answer. I saw one conversion, and played with it.

So I slapped her on a Helliarch board, and used two sets of grenade launchers, one as launchers, the other pair as rocket boosters. (Hey, she's Lelith... she'll want to get to the slaughtering as fast as possible.) I also slapped on a pair of Heat Lances from Reaver sets. I put on the grip chain to her waist from the Helliarch set (safety first folks...)and built custom weapons for her out of Raider poles/ Kabalite Warrior extra bits, and Green Stuff. Oh, and I shaved off the spikes on her legs, because the bubbles had messed them up. In their place are two sheathed knives.

Oh, and this is the first time I've done anything like this, because I'm new to all of this. But ambition (or steadfast refusal to throw the model away)has made something interesting,and was a wonderful teaching session on conversions.

But I shouldn't have had to do it in the first place.

As a result, I've had a personal policy to avoid Finecast. I abandoned it for the 25th Anniversary model, and I also got an Archon. I also wanted to get a Succubus a few days later, but couldn't, because had only one, and one frame was messed up. I was more than happy to have it, and have replacement parts for it, because i wanted to play around and do conversions to it anyway.. Sadly, I wasn't allowed to buy it.

The Archon had some small bubbles in cloak, and a bubble at the bottom of his foot. Nothing to be upset about, the bubbles ere liquid GS'd out, and the foot isn't visible at all. the 25th Anniversary model... I had a heart attack when i saw it. I keep looking at it. It is unbelievable.

We are talking about a model with four tiny, hard to spot bubbles, and a human hair in it. How the human hair is in the mix is beyond me. But the fact it came out so well is astounding. I won't have to to any real prepwork other than bits of flash and the hair to be removed. I look at the detail level, and I can't wait to put it together, and make into a painted display piece.

Why can't all of them come out like that?

It has occurred to me, that people have talked about the price going up when they went from metal to the brittle grey stuff they make the Citadel Finecast with. I think that they took a look at what was churning out, and they adjusted the price in accordance to having to send out replacement models. They can't be losing money from having to constantly sending out replacements. There is already a very healthy profit margin worked into the prices, so I can see that are still making a profit. I also see me carrying on with plastic for quite a while to come, wit the exception of a Succubus (I really want to convert the poop out of that model...) and another Lelith (I want to convert a model to represent my Lands of Legend RPG character, Mellisandre De Luna.)


Have you noticed a theme with me and Finecast? I only go for it if I want to do mental levels of conversions. If I can get away with not having it, I don't have it. I c an create quite a lot of interesting models with the various plastic kits, so why go Finecast? With imagination, people have come up with plastic alternatives. And I am someone who is into the model and painting side of it .

The thing that worries me is not me buying a piece of crap model, because I have a salary, £10 or so isn't going to devastate me if it is a bum product. But how many ten year olds play this game, and have this hobby? for them, £10 on a model is a massive investment. Are they going to know if they have a defective model? And if they find out they have a model that they carefully put together and painted to the highest standards they can produce, the model they have put all that time and energy into, that it is in fact a badly casted in the first place, thus looks laughable.... how would they react? If GW is intent on the customer on correcting defective products, then what does that say about the company? They are quite greedy and callous, because there is an assumption that all people who buy their products have the skill, or confidence, to deal with the problem. Not to mention that spending a couple of hours to have top go through a model, and re-sculpt parts of it, that is a couple of hours wasted to do other things. How much painting and model building can you do in a couple of hours? That is the true cost of a bad model right there.Wasted money, and wasted time sorting out the problem.

Then there is the fact that the company is saying the following at time of release of this product:

Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast.

Wow, that's quite a statement isn't it? Nonetheless, it is very true. On the 28th of May we launch Citadel Finecast, miniatures of such exquisite detail that they are the closest representation of the sculptors' original that we have ever been able to make. Until you hold one in your hand and see it for yourself, it's hard to describe just how detailed they are.

So, what are Citadel Finecast miniatures and why are we making the change? Quite simply, Citadel Finecast is the next step in the evolution in tabletop miniatures wargaming. From the start, Games Workshop has always innovated and sought to increase the quality of our models - Citadel Finecast is the next step in that process. There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

The Citadel Finecast miniatures are all made from a unique resin formula. For us as hobbyists, this is great news. The resin is easy to work with and quick to cut off the sprue, making assembling a miniature easier than it has ever been. Not only that, but it's incredibly light too, which means pinning wings and other heavy components will be a thing of the past. So, quick and durable, that's a good start. But of course, one of the main reasons for this change to resin was quality. One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.

This Saturday is going to be a landmark day in Games Workshop's history. No matter which country you live in, when the doors of your local Hobby Centre open for business on Saturday morning, you'll find over 100 new clampacks and boxed sets of Citadel Finecast miniatures. This is your chance to come and have a look and make up your own mind about the bold claims I've made above. You won't be disappointed.

You should also make sure you pick up June's White Dwarf. In it I'll be discussing the new kits even further, and talking to such luminaries as 'Eavy Metal's Joe Tomaszewski about what it's like paint Citadel Finecast, as well as veteran miniatures designer Aly Morrison regarding what the future holds when sculpting for the new medium. To quote Aly: "In a way it will push us to try things we could never realise before; to add even more dynamism to the models." Being a hobbyist first and foremost, that's a very exciting thing for me to hear.

So, what next? Every day this week we'll be adding more images of upcoming Citadel Finecast models to the website leading up to the launch on Saturday. All you need to do is make sure you're at your local Games Workshop Hobby Centre this Saturday for the grand unveiling.

Let us look at this carefully, because it then is quite revealing, and quite galling. This is a trade description, and while parts of it are true - I don't want to do pinnig of models or anything like that, due to confidence - They are in clear breacy of the trading description of the producty range they are promoting. There is a noticable difference to Finecast over metal. You can tell them apart. But only because Finecast has the ability to turn gauntlets into sandwiches, and so forth. A person who has some knowledge can spot Finecast next to metal, because of numerous small defects that build up into a shoddy model. We have had the chance to look for ourselves, and make up our own minds about the bold claims, and bold they may be, but they are as solid as mist in my hand.

There is also the claim that it will allow the models to be more dynamic in thje future. How? My Lelith could barely syay on her flagpole! the connection to the two halves, the feet and the pole, were not good enough for the moulding medium. Over time, they would have snapped apart.

They also state that that one of the main reasons they made the change is for quality reasons. They are saying that there is an extra level of crispness that wasn't there before. This thread has proven otherwise, with the Finecast Sandwich Marine. Therefore, not only are these claims a pile of steaming horse manure, but are a breach of trade descriptions. They mention the woed "quality" four times. Where is it? Maybe it is hiding, scared, under the sofa... They mention the word "detail" a good five or six times, too. Yes, the models are detailed. When there are not lumps , holes or parts missing to the model. I had to carve off bits off Lelith's right arm, because there were mould lumps at the bicep joion at the next peice.

In the end, the term "Failcast" for this product line is quite accurate, on many levels. It is a failure to get the process right before sending it out en masse, a failure to care about what they are making, a failure to care about the customers, a failure to listen to the comments and complaints, and a failure toi bring this to at least some sort of resolution by now. Only bad companies obsess over money. The best companies worry about the product and the customer, because when you do that, the money comes rolling in anyway.

Right, time to come off the methinks...

Well I just like to say that the clampacks in GW Belfast are always in mint condition. I check.

Ive only bought a few finecast models, all online (not instore) and had no problems so far - 6-7 models now if I include brothers ones.

I have had more issues with forgeworld stuff tbh, thin areas sometimes with holes in (rhino plates, for instance)

Never bought any finecast things, never will. I used to buy the metal plague marines but now I convert them myself because finecast is just terrible

Finecast, as a concept, is great-easier to work with, it's a converter's dream. However, it's still having bugs (my only real complaint was 25th anniversary model) and is too high a cost for what we're currently getting. I like it. I want to love it, and I know I will, once the kinks are worked out. I just hope they don't take too long. My anniversary model was unforgivable, but the others have been fine.

Deadshot wrote:Well I just like to say that the clampacks in GW Belfast are always in mint condition. I check.

You can't possibly check for quality while the model is still inside those clampacks. I went through the entire stock of crypteks, overlords, and Imotehks at my FLGS to find ones that looked suitable through packaging. I ended up purchasing two crypteks, an overlord, and an Imotehk and each of them had some major problems I noticed upon opening up for further inspection. Shame on me for thinking I could get away with finding the golden ticket, in a sea of miscast product.

Andy Hall via Cameron Baum wrote:The resin is easy to work with and quick to cut off the sprue, making assembling a miniature easier than it has ever been. Not only that, but it's incredibly light too, which means pinning wings and other heavy components will be a thing of the past. So, quick and durable, that's a good start. But of course, one of the main reasons for this change to resin was quality. One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.

So easy to asssemble that GW had to release a whole new product, liquid green stuff, to aleviate the problems with assembly that are unique to the Finecast material (unique in that they were never an issue with GW plastic or metal models).

Hillarious.

George Spiggott wrote:

Andy Hall via Cameron Baum wrote:The resin is easy to work with and quick to cut off the sprue, making assembling a miniature easier than it has ever been. Not only that, but it's incredibly light too, which means pinning wings and other heavy components will be a thing of the past. So, quick and durable, that's a good start. But of course, one of the main reasons for this change to resin was quality. One thing you'll notice immediately when you pick them up is the exceptionally sharp detail on the model, which can only be described as staggering. For dedicated painters (which we all are to some extent) this is a dream come true.

So easy to asssemble that GW had to release a whole new product, liquid green stuff, to aleviate the problems with assembly that are unique to the Finecast material (unique in that they were never an issue with GW plastic or metal models).

Hillarious.

Remember, they've also told us that all of this is a dream come true for us. Well, if this a dream, I worry about their definition of a nightmare... Maybe that would be all items made in this brittle stuff? And a price hike to cover replacements?

I get why they'd want to get out of making metal models, and that is the price of metal these days. As big a sacrilege it is, look at your model collection. How much metal does it contain? If a pound in pennies is worth three pounds in scrap value, then how much could those models be in scrap value? However, they went away from making everything in plastic, and instead go and make models in the resin formula they cooked up for this disaster. They tell us it is a unique formula, which means that no-one else is making models in this resin formula.

Sobering thought....

helium42 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Well I just like to say that the clampacks in GW Belfast are always in mint condition. I check.

You can't possibly check for quality while the model is still inside those clampacks.

Indeed. Given that GW seem incapable of making such checks before the models are stuffed into their packaging, I find this claim highly dubious.

Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

Unless it is all on the other side, and is hidden from view.

And even checking carefully, you can't spot everything. And products with that many flaws and problems should not be sent out in the first place. All of this is cited to be the next logical step in modelling evolution, so going retrograde with the move isn't evolution at all.

I see in 5-10 years time, GW will be in a very shaky position, with a massive reduction of sales. And Finecast will be a big corner of that decline. The customer isn't a free QC filter process. It is the source of their income. We should be be having to scrutinise the product before purchase, because it should be already fine to start with.

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

show us this 1 dimension product you are looking at.
Because in the real world, 1 dimension isnt possible for us to see

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Well I am stumped there.


Allow me to correct myself.


From what I can see the Finecast Clampacks at GW Belfast are in mint condition.



If fact, the very worst case of Finecrap I have ever heard of from that place was my own Draigo. I didn't even know untill today. And in fact it wasn't even bought from there. I ordered it in tgat store.

Deadshot wrote:Well I am stumped there.


Allow me to correct myself.


From what I can see the Finecast Clampacks at GW Belfast are in mint condition.



If fact, the very worst case of Finecrap I have ever heard of from that place was my own Draigo. I didn't even know untill today. And in fact it wasn't even bought from there. I ordered it in tgat store.

Why does "where" you buy GW stuff matter?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Working hard to evolve that ability as we speak... or type... whatever... ;@)

Cameron Baum wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Working hard to evolve that ability as we speak... or type... whatever... ;@)

I think its safe to say if we do have xray vision we wouldnt bother with toy soldiers anymore xD

LunaHound wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Well I am stumped there.


Allow me to correct myself.


From what I can see the Finecast Clampacks at GW Belfast are in mint condition.



If fact, the very worst case of Finecrap I have ever heard of from that place was my own Draigo. I didn't even know untill today. And in fact it wasn't even bought from there. I ordered it in tgat store.

Why does "where" you buy GW stuff matter?

Because Belfast clearly get special treatment... ;@)

Well seeing as we get special blue shirts and are the only GW stor in NI it should.

Cameron Baum wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Working hard to evolve that ability as we speak... or type... whatever... ;@)

It's a gift us colonials kept for ourselves.

LunaHound wrote:

Cameron Baum wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Working hard to evolve that ability as we speak... or type... whatever... ;@)

I think its safe to say if we do have xray vision we wouldnt bother with toy soldiers anymore xD

Well, part of my plan is to use the x-ray ability for lots of other possibilities. Can't thin k of any off the top of my head, but there is bound to be a few... like checking FC to see it is up to "Belfast Standard..."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:Well seeing as we get special blue shirts and are the only GW stor in NI it should.

Blue Shirts? Is this an Irish take on Kirk's Redshits?

Cameron Baum wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Cameron Baum wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

You don't have X-ray vision to check for bubbles on the backside of the model before you purchase FC ? humm I though everyone did. odd.

Working hard to evolve that ability as we speak... or type... whatever... ;@)

I think its safe to say if we do have xray vision we wouldnt bother with toy soldiers anymore xD

Well, part of my plan is to use the x-ray ability for lots of other possibilities. Can't thin k of any off the top of my head, but there is bound to be a few... like checking FC to see it is up to "Belfast Standard..."

Wasnt there a game in Casinos called Black Jack? where you can say hit me or something.
Xray vision would mean you'll win alot!

Check the Belfast Store's Facebook page to see the actual "Belfast standard"...


http://m.facebook.com/home.php?__user=100001699887650#~!/photo.php?fbid=282736948417515&id=197177686973442&set=a.282736485084228.75655.197177686973442&__user=100001699887650

Deadshot wrote:Check the Belfast Store's Facebook page to see the actual "Belfast standard"...


http://m.facebook.com/home.php?__user=100001699887650#~!/photo.php?fbid=282736948417515&id=197177686973442&set=a.282736485084228.75655.197177686973442&__user=100001699887650

... which put my PC to a version of Facebook that is for MOBILE PHONES. I've spent minutes trying to get it to work...

And they've not put up any pictures, or any posts for that matter. Belfast Standard, indeed...

No need to get annoyed. All I was saying was I have had a great expieriance with FC and it looks great from there.

ph34r wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Just look through the clear plastic. It ain't hard.

What if the defect is.... oh I don't know, on the back?

Or what if all the obvious ones are on the front and the back is facing the window?

I see what you guys did there >.>

Somebody must have got a good one.

Can't he/she recast it for everyone else

loki old fart wrote:Somebody must have got a good one.

Can't he/she recast it for everyone else

Pretty soon

LunaHound wrote:

loki old fart wrote:Somebody must have got a good one.

Can't he/she recast it for everyone else

Pretty soon

So I take it there was 1 good one then

thought maybe it would be team effort.
People casting the good bit they got and trading to make good model

loki old fart wrote:Somebody must have got a good one.

Can't he/she recast it for everyone else

Perhaps we should have all the parts that came out flawlessly, and we generate moulds from them. Then create decent plastic versions or something...

We can call it Castle SuccessCast or something...

Meanwhile, I think this topic has well and truly moved past being news, and since there's still another thread active in Discussions, it's time to put this one to bed.