So Games Workshop have sent an email around to all of their stores notifying them that;

".....there has been a higher number of the new Citadel Finecast miniatures due to be released that have a bubble in a vital point or have cast thinner than they should have done."

It goes on to say, especially in relation to Finecast models in boxes as opposed to Clampacks;

"Can you check these models with your customers as you sell them to ensure they are happy with their purchase and offer modelling tips for cleaning up flash/mould lines and filling bubbles.  If any of the products are not to the customers satisfaction, please give them a new one as usual."

So, in theory, if you are picking up any of the new Finecast models this weekend then the GW employee should ask you if you want to open the box/clampack before you pay to check for defects. Bit if they don't, make sure you tell them that you want to do this as a precaution!

To be fair, I've never had a problem with any GW's letting me check models before I buy them, or replacing them if it's a problem not picked up until later. But if you are ever buying Finecast, and this weekend in particular, make sure you open your boxes ASAP to inspect them as to not create disappointment.

My local GW actually tends to that whenever someone buys finecast at the store since there is constantly issues, but it's nice to see GW admitting something for once.

Doesn't sound like anything new.

"If your customers notice that the models are crap, give them a new one. If not, carry on."

Luckily I don't have to worry about inspecting my Finecast models, as I refuse to spend my hard-earned money on substandard materials. However, it is interesting to see them actually admit that something was wrong.

Now, if they could just do that for every release prior to this one. . .

I hope this also means they are looking into whatever was causing their quality issues. Some of the examples from the thread in the Dakka Discussions area were horrendous.

I've heard it's gotten so bad in certain places that GW workers are persuading customers not to buy online, because more than likely, they'll get a crappy cast (and come down to the store to complain, which I'm sure they don't need). This was common knowledge to just about any savvy customer from the very beginning though.

I'm not buying failca$t anymore. 2/2 models had flaws, 1 particularly bad. Plastic all the way I think......

My first finecast was perfect, my second and third had small issues that were either EASILY fixed or not visible unless looking at the tainted region. My fourth was also flawless. We'll see what happens on my 25th anniversay model. But cockatrice and Cato Siccurius were both perfect, Dante and Grimgore had tiny flaws. Dante and Grimgore just happen to be lacking in the child-causing area.

This implies that the molds coming down the line are worse than normal. Expect blisters to contain the wrong models.

^^I make sure to check every FC model that I buy. Mail order's right out, which kinda sux because no brick and mortar gives the discounts I usually get when I'm doing mail order. Ya know GW is pricey, so discounts are good. Usually the imperfections I run into aren't game breaking. But it does kind of suck to have to patch an air bubble on a 28mm minature. A 1/6, 1/7, 1/8 resin model is one thing (I'm used to garage kits from Japan), but a small model....I'd rather not.

We're coming on a year since FC first released, and just like with computer operating systems I usually wait until said release is out of its beta testing phase. We're sure to be getting out of that beta test timeframe soon here. GW does care about quality as they've shown with their other mediums (plastic, metal) I don't believe they've taken the stance "It's Finecast, feth Em" more like they're new to resin casting and don't what they're doing or have the manpower to do it correctly. They'll get there.

The word filter does not alleviate your responsibility not to swear while posting on this forum. Thanks ~manchu

So . .wait a minute. . they are saying that the ones being released this weekend are worse than normal?

I don't remember the LA Bunker ever not checking finecast for defects before sales.

ShumaGorath wrote:This implies that the molds coming down the line are worse than normal. Expect blisters to contain the wrong models.

What a spectacular fail. This is akin to someone marketing themselves as Mercedes coming out with a bunch of product with the same QC as a Yugo.

Can you check these models with your customers as you sell them to ensure they are happy with their purchase and offer modelling tips for cleaning up flash/mould lines and filling bubbles.

Yeah, couldn't have expected any different from the almighty GW. "If they're not happy with a model, tell them to fill all the holes, because there's nothing wrong with Finecast and clearly they're just inferior modelers."

feth you.

They need to do the right thing and do a freakin recall.

I had seen some of the new stuff today, 4 boxes before we found one that wasn't messed up to bad. So I will not getting my new stuff this weekend.

ShumaGorath wrote:This implies that the molds coming down the line are worse than normal. Expect blisters to contain the wrong models.

I've already had boxes containing wrong parts. I have a Skaven Doomwheel that had two of the same wheel side (there are supposed to be two different ones) and packs of Mandrakes that each lost a guy in the warp somehow. The Seattle Bunker does an awesome job of fixing problems as quickly as possible though, so at least that's something.

Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

Breotan wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:This implies that the molds coming down the line are worse than normal. Expect blisters to contain the wrong models.

I've already had boxes containing wrong parts. I have a Skaven Doomwheel that had two of the same wheel side (there are supposed to be two different ones) and packs of Mandrakes that each lost a guy in the warp somehow. The Seattle Bunker does an awesome job of fixing problems as quickly as possible though, so at least that's something.

I recently saw a tyranid tyrant guard blister with two sets of right legs on the same sprue. How the hell does that even happen?

Luckily for me, I don't plan on getting any of the Finecast Space Wolves until I've already gotten a Swarmlord, TWC and a couple Tyrannofex/Tervigons... Hopefully the issues are straightened out by then...

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

Spartan is one I've never seen problems with, and PP's tend (not always) to be simpler.

Both have chunkier/less ambitious resin minis than GW, which is partially GW being more ambitious, partially GW not having their system down when they release a new product.

FW has more detailed minis than GW, and I've never had a problem.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I've heard it's gotten so bad in certain places that GW workers are persuading customers not to buy online, because more than likely, they'll get a crappy cast (and come down to the store to complain, which I'm sure they don't need). This was common knowledge to just about any savvy customer from the very beginning though.

Maybe this is GW's latest attempt to shut down online retailers...

My local GW Battle Bunker already follows the "open it and check while you're here" protocol and has done so since the Finecast release last May 28. And clearly this latest release demonstrates that the issues with it continue to go unresolved.

I like the part that effectively says "If they don't like the condition of their model, first show them how to fix it with tools that you can also sell them" Only then if they are dissatisfied, give them a new one.

Nope. It's GW's job to ensure that a model matches the baseline for what I am buying, not mine.

If I were ever to buy Finecast, I'm not sure what to do, really. I only have independent retailers near me (who also aren't likely to let me open a box to check) so I'd guess I have buy blind and deal with CS. I'm in Michigan, and I think the nearest GW is on the other side of the state, nearly four hours away (one way), but I'm not sure. It's outside of the 100 mile radius circle on GW's site and that's as big as you can go with that utility.

Deathshead420 wrote:They need to do the right thing and do a freakin recall.

Can they even reuse this material? I thought that once it is cast, it is done or garbage because of the nature of the resin mixture.

puma713 wrote:I thought that once it is cast, it is done or garbage

More often the latter.

I strongly urge evryone to stop asking for replacement models and start asking for refunds.

If you allow GW to keep your money... They win, and they'll keep selling a garbage product.

Request refunds!

Stop asking for another model, the next will not be any better than the one you already have. More often then not they let you keep the model anyway because they would need to foot the bill to have it sent back.

I've got better advice: don't buy it at all.

Sidstyler wrote:I've got better advice: don't buy it at all.

+1. With this approach, I haven't gotten a single miscast yet!

So glad that I have given up buying GW

Sidstyler wrote:I've got better advice: don't buy it at all.

I think if the intent was to send a message to GW about the unaccepable quality of Finecast that it would be better to purchase normally and demand refunds if the quality was bad as Oni suggests. When you demand a refund you're literally saying that this is not good enough. Just not buying could be construed many different ways by GW. I wouldn't want to be burden on my FLGS but if there was a GW brick and mortar in the area I'd certainly do that. If I bought the item from an FLGS or mail order I'd probably just call the 1-800#.

Do your local FLGS's let you open clamshells to check quality? How are they about returning FCs that are bad?

I've made it no secret the past year that while I'm still a Warhammer hobbyist I'm definitely in a new mode of not going too crazy on the expenditures, especially since last May 28th and the new price structure that includes Finecast. As the styrene kits have gotten more expensive the Finecast models in some cases are truly exorbitant as well as fragile and I find myself avoiding most blisters and non-styrene GW models more than ever. Here are some thoughts for avoiding spending too much on the new Finecast models when you could be getting whole unit box sets for the same money:

1) Convert a Cyberwolf out of one of your plastic set Fenrisian Wolves. The cyber-bits from the Thunderwolf kit or Necron bits should be helpful along with some scratch converted parts from plastic rods if you're up to it. 5 Fenrisian Wolves are about $25, but the single Finecast Cyberwolf is also about $25. You can do the math, 5 for $25 is a better deal than 1 for $25.

2) Arjac Rockfist (pronounced Ar-yak just like Bjorn is said Bee-yorn or the word fjord is fee-yord, "j"s are like "y" in Nordic languages). He's not much different or any more spectacular than the regular Space Wolf Terminators, so buy yourself a whole box of 5 for only a bit more than the price of 1 Arjac and convert him yourself. Give him a cool custom converted hammer and or shield to have some fun with this one.

3) Space Wolf Lord On Thunderwolf. Again, this model is not all that much more special than the new multi-part Thunderwolf unit models, so buy a box or two of those and convert one to look "special" to be your Wolf Lord. There are enough cloaks and other cool bits in other GW kits both Space Wolf and otherwise to help with this one.

I started working on Ogre Kingdoms last fall and except for the Firebelly a friend got me for $25 at a flea market I converted my Tyrant and Butchers from plastic Bulls plus cool bits from other multi-part sets and some "Green Stuff". Since Ogre characters start at $38 each, it saved me a ton of money.

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

I've never had a problem with Spartan minis, neither my own or any my friends have bought. PP's minis are injection moulded plastic, just not the same as GW plastic.

George Spiggott wrote:

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

I've never had a problem with Spartan minis, neither my own or any my friends have bought. PP's minis are injection moulded plastic, just not the same as GW plastic.

What company have you been buying the spartan minis from then? I've never seen one that wasn't mismolded in some way. Maybe it's unique to firestorm armada though.

George Spiggott wrote:

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

I've never had a problem with Spartan minis, neither my own or any my friends have bought. PP's minis are injection moulded plastic, just not the same as GW plastic.

I recently bought a Throne of Everblight from them and there was only 1 major large bubble on the Throne's tongue. That's it. I've never had any miscast issues with PP.

I'd only ever bought one Finecast model before - a haemy that had an horrendous amount of flash on it but once cut free was OK.

Foolishly, I relaxed my guard and bought - without checking - a box of Wracks. Big mistake. Three of the sprues looked like they'd been designed by Salvador Dali.

'Dear customer services ... '

Sidstyler wrote:

Can you check these models with your customers as you sell them to ensure they are happy with their purchase and offer modelling tips for cleaning up flash/mould lines and filling bubbles.

Yeah, couldn't have expected any different from the almighty GW. "If they're not happy with a model, tell them to fill all the holes, because there's nothing wrong with Finecast and clearly they're just inferior modelers."

feth you.

A staff member once told me to stop complaining about them, as I had the skills and ability to remove any minor upsets.......I'm not entirely sure he was joking about it either. Grumpy sod, the models face was half metled, bad enough I had to pay a minor fortune for it.

Earthbeard wrote:
A staff member once told me to stop complaining about them, as I had the skills and ability to remove any minor upsets.......I'm not entirely sure he was joking about it either. Grumpy sod, the models face was half metled, bad enough I had to pay a minor fortune for it.

Remind the fethwit he works in retail and the customer pays his wage.

The GW miniatures are among the most expensive range around, they converted to a cheaper casting material and raised the price further into the bargin and the quality fell through the floor, seriously, how the hell does a GW retail employee get the bloody audacity to tell people off for complaining about that? ESPECIALLY when they've just bought the model (ie, paid his fething wages!!).

This company dwells in fething la-la land sometimes.

What a fething douchebag. But yeah, can you imagine what it would be like buying product anywhere else and getting that kind of treatment? lol, can you imagine some car dealer trying to sell you a car missing a fender and a rear bumper, covered in rust and dents, for the same price as a new car, and telling you not to complain because you can fix it?

Sidstyler wrote:What a fething douchebag. But yeah, can you imagine what it would be like buying product anywhere else and getting that kind of treatment? lol, can you imagine some car dealer trying to sell you a car missing a fender and a rear bumper, covered in rust and dents, for the same price as a new car, and telling you not to complain because you can fix it?

"Why yes, it does have corrosion in the chassis and bodywork, but Mercedes make the best cars in the world, so you should shush and buy our Mercedes metalwork filler and respray kit, it's all part of the 'Ownership Experience'. That's why we switched from metal to swiss cheese for our manufacturing and then raised our prices by 12%. Are you not entertained?"

Is there a way to confirm this email actually exists?
Or just a fan trying to make GW look more caring?

If it is this fan has failed greatly since it doesn't make them look any more "caring" than they were before, lol. The whole "Show these noobs how to fix their gak so they'll shut up" thing that I pointed out, because you know, that's obviously the reason why there are so many complaints, we just don't know how modeling works.

Sidstyler wrote:If it is this fan has failed greatly since it doesn't make them look any more "caring" than they were before, lol. The whole "Show these noobs how to fix their gak so they'll shut up" thing that I pointed out, because you know, that's obviously the reason why there are so many complaints, we just don't know how modeling works.

But they have a no quibbles exchange policy!

LunaHound wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:If it is this fan has failed greatly since it doesn't make them look any more "caring" than they were before, lol. The whole "Show these noobs how to fix their gak so they'll shut up" thing that I pointed out, because you know, that's obviously the reason why there are so many complaints, we just don't know how modeling works.

But they have a no quibbles exchange policy!

Right. . you exchange your money for their 'Finecast repair kit'.

Never thought I'd see the day where a hobby company sells you a repair kit for something you haven't even opened yet.

But the problems are easy to fix, and its part of hobby fun!

I really wish they'd get their stuff together on this. I love Finecast as a material, in theory - presupposing they can get their QC together. Which they can't, or won't, do ("Either? Pick one.")

PP's minis are injection moulded plastic, just not the same as GW plastic.

Hmm, that's something I didn't know. I haven't done much PP stuff since the very beginning (MK1), so I didn't really look into it. Injection molded would make me more confident in buying them, and want the new Warpwolf figure for my Confrontation PPP army. Thanks!

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, couldn't have expected any different from the almighty GW. "If they're not happy with a model, tell them to fill all the holes, because there's nothing wrong with Finecast and clearly they're just inferior modelers."

Except that's not what they said, is it. They said that faulty models should be replaced, as usual.

Sooo.... I havent bought a GW model in... oh about 26 months now.

Decided that put aside my haterade and throw a few bucks at the FLGS while I was there on some LotR stuff.

Its been almost a year since Failcost has been released and figured they HAD to have their ducks lined up in a row by now.

The model in question was Gulyvhar.

Its a boxed model so I was not able to open prior to purchase, but again assumed GW had their crap together by now.

Yeahhhhh... I have bought some pretty dreadful resin casts from FW, but this model put the stinky cherry on top of my rather not-so-hot business relationship with GW.

As a former fanboy wanting to be at least a peripheral returning customer in some small way, this was an incredibly poor showing. Not a great example of what to expect QC-wsie for the price paid. It wasnt worth 1/10th of the price.

Full refund requested.

Oh well, I'll check back in a few years.

Tailgunner wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, couldn't have expected any different from the almighty GW. "If they're not happy with a model, tell them to fill all the holes, because there's nothing wrong with Finecast and clearly they're just inferior modelers."

Except that's not what they said, is it. They said that faulty models should be replaced, as usual.

After telling the customer there's nothing wrong with his model and he can fix it himself.

Ok, for the experts out there see if you can help with this.....

I have problem with my purchase

- Its not finecast.
- Its majorly warped plastic
- I have hinted that I want a replacement.
- They responded that a new one will not guarantee to not have same flaw so no replacement
- They say I should just fix it, i made it clear I dont know how
- There were attempt to fix it, but its still warped like WTF IS THIS

Honestly, Im really agitated, I felt the model is expensive as it is, and now despite my frustration,
IT STILL LOOKS LIKE POO.

What do I do now?

You know what, i dont mind it... if i bick up a box of failcast and the local store, and its miscast, know what I do? I call up GW and get them to send me a new one. Then I go back and use the modeling skills that I have developed after years int he hobby to repair the damage to the initial product. Voila, two for the price of one, and you often cannot tell that there was an issue to begin with.

chaos0xomega wrote:You know what, i dont mind it... if i bick up a box of failcast and the local store, and its miscast, know what I do? I call up GW and get them to send me a new one. Then I go back and use the modeling skills that I have developed after years int he hobby to repair the damage to the initial product. Voila, two for the price of one, and you often cannot tell that there was an issue to begin with.

And they have no incentive to fix the issues, because you're still a paying customer that will settle. They don't care about sending you another one, as the cost to make both of them was probably cheaper to make than one of their metal counterparts.

LunaHound wrote:Ok, for the experts out there see if you can help with this.....

I have problem with my purchase

- Its not finecast.
- Its majorly warped plastic
- I have hinted that I want a replacement.
- They responded that a new one will not guarantee to not have same flaw so no replacement
- They say I should just fix it, i made it clear I dont know how
- There were attempt to fix it, but its still warped like WTF IS THIS

Honestly, Im really agitated, I felt the model is expensive as it is, and now despite my frustration,
IT STILL LOOKS LIKE POO.

What do I do now?

Plastic model from GW? Which one?

ShumaGorath wrote:What company have you been buying the spartan minis from then? I've never seen one that wasn't mismolded in some way. Maybe it's unique to firestorm armada though.

I don't own any Armada stuff it's all Uncharted Seas. I've only ever seen one starter set (I think it was a starter set) in the 'flesh' it was all moulded ok IIRC.

I bought some kublewagens from Forged in Battle (15mm WWII) that were mis-moulded. They sent me out some replacements by post. All the other stuff I got from them was OK.

chaos0xomega wrote:You know what, i dont mind it... if i bick up a box of failcast and the local store, and its miscast, know what I do? I call up GW and get them to send me a new one. Then I go back and use the modeling skills that I have developed after years int he hobby to repair the damage to the initial product. Voila, two for the price of one, and you often cannot tell that there was an issue to begin with.

!
That's what I did. Wooooooooo free stuff!

LunaHound wrote:Ok, for the experts out there see if you can help with this.....

I have problem with my purchase

- Its not finecast.
- Its majorly warped plastic
- I have hinted that I want a replacement.
- They responded that a new one will not guarantee to not have same flaw so no replacement
- They say I should just fix it, i made it clear I dont know how
- There were attempt to fix it, but its still warped like WTF IS THIS

Honestly, Im really agitated, I felt the model is expensive as it is, and now despite my frustration,
IT STILL LOOKS LIKE POO.

What do I do now?

Don't hint, tell them flat out that the product is defective and you want you want a replacement or a refund. The "we can't guarantee the replacement won't have the same flaw" argument is bizarre on it's face, this isn't a lottery. You paid for X and you want X or your money back and the fact they keep churning out flawed versions of X is their problem, not yours.

If you went to Mcdonalds and your burger had no bun, and upon taking it back they said they couldn't promise you the next one wouldn't also be missing a bun, would you shrug and eat it? Because, in both cases, you shouldn't be eating it.

Will the staff lose anything or be put in disadvantage if they give me a replacement?

I cant really think of any reason why they would go so far for me to try to fix it if they can do the easy way

No, they already made the sale in the first place. If a product is defective a company is required to replace it with a passable product.

LunaHound wrote:Ok, for the experts out there see if you can help with this.....

I have problem with my purchase

- Its not finecast.
- Its majorly warped plastic
- I have hinted that I want a replacement.
- They responded that a new one will not guarantee to not have same flaw so no replacement
- They say I should just fix it, i made it clear I dont know how
- There were attempt to fix it, but its still warped like WTF IS THIS

Honestly, Im really agitated, I felt the model is expensive as it is, and now despite my frustration,
IT STILL LOOKS LIKE POO.

What do I do now?

Necron Monolith? Depends on how badly its been warped, ive had success with rubberbands during assembly to hold the pieces tight to one another while the glue sets. If you're using CA and have a cure accelerator that will work as well.

Hm. While I initially despised Finecast, I've had good luck with it lately, which has softened my distaste for it. And the email is sincere and doesn't scream "evil corporation!" to me. So I'll head down to the local GW store and see what I can see tomorrow. Fingers crossed, maybe I'll find some good casts of Arjac and Lukas.

I definitely still prefer plastic, though.

TheSovereign wrote:I've had good luck with it lately,

That's actually still the problem with Finecast.
"Luck" should not be a factor. Buying Finecast should not be a gamble.

Try the new game from GW , Finecast . Just like Russian Roulette , 1 in 6 a winner .

Lork Skystompa wrote:Try the new game from GW , Finecast . Just like Russian Roulette , 1 in 6 a winner .

But for most people buying Finecast has been like playing Russian Roulette with a semi-automatic pistol

ShumaGorath wrote:

Breotan wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:This implies that the molds coming down the line are worse than normal. Expect blisters to contain the wrong models.

I've already had boxes containing wrong parts. I have a Skaven Doomwheel that had two of the same wheel side (there are supposed to be two different ones) and packs of Mandrakes that each lost a guy in the warp somehow. The Seattle Bunker does an awesome job of fixing problems as quickly as possible though, so at least that's something.

I recently saw a tyranid tyrant guard blister with two sets of right legs on the same sprue. How the hell does that even happen?

It's a new biomorph for the next codex. The unit gets a hgher movement rate.

The Decapitator wrote:So Games Workshop have sent an email around to all of their stores notifying them that;

".....there has been a higher number of the new Citadel Finecast miniatures due to be released that have a bubble in a vital point or have cast thinner than they should have done."

Wait what the heck!? Games workshop know their next shipment has issues, yet they wont check them, recall them or do anything, so instead ship them to the stores just for the Customer to do it for them.
What?

Clever plan though. Dont pay for quality control, and get the customer to do it for you. *Sarcastic applause*

Total internet scaremongery,without a screenshot of the email it never happened.

"Scaremongering"? What part of this supposed communique is supposed to be scary, exactly? If the email said that some boxes might be contaminated with arsenic, then sure, that'd be a scaremongering rumor to pass around without corroboration, but this? This is owl-downy nonsense at worst.

Changing someones action by causing fear or worry is scaremongery,by claiming an email exists without proof about the quality of a release could change peoples mind on the purchases because they worry about the quality.

Well, GW doesn't worry about their quality pushing people away. I think a fake email would do much damage there.

I have bought alot of stuff of the years and you know what? I have never, ever asked to have a TV removed from the Box to prove it's ok, or a washing machine, or a mobile Phone, or a Games console.

Neither has a sales representative asked me to open what I have bought to as-wage the fears of the company that sold me the product has given me an inferior product.

Furthermore if a sales representative (working for the company in question) is openly telling me the product he is selling has issues. I would without fail, ask for a refund and hand the product back. Part of the tacit agreement is that I pay the vendor legitimate, legal tender and the Vendor must supply legitimate, legal and goods of an acceptable quality. In the UK consumer rights are pretty good on this issue and the Office of Fair Trading is brilliant at jumping on sharp practices and poor customer service. QUALITY CONTROL is key to any Company's product image it is counterproductive to their sales if it is of dubious quality or worse variable quality.

OP is literally jaw droppingly bad, imagine if this was an iPAD or iPhone?

There are far more satisfied finecast customers than unsatisfied,the sheep nature of the forums means however people are unfairly convinced the medium is terrible. Resin has its limitations regardless of the manufacture but GW have to be dragged over the coals for everything they do while other companies enjoy the keys to the forum city

and yes if there was serious concern about quality gw would have all shops check the stock, as the above poster pointed out in his post they wouldnt wait for the customer to do it at the till if they were aware of the issue prior,also the boxes have batch number (legally) so if there is a fault they can pull a batch .the opening post is nonsense

I disagree, if the company is releasing Quality/ Return Policy guidance to retailers then the amount of returns must be well beyond the acceptable norm that all manufacturers factor into their production runs.

You can dissagree all day long but that would be the process for any quality issue of this scale

mwnciboo wrote:I disagree, if the company is releasing Quality/ Return Policy guidance to retailers then the amount of returns must be well beyond the acceptable norm that all manufacturers factor into their production runs.

Don't feed the troll (or white knight), mwnciboo - take a look at his posting history.

How is pointing out that the opening post maybe untrue trolling? Open your minds people the number of anti fine cast posts on forums is stupid and this one takes the biscuit.if gw has prior knowledge of an issue they would identify the batch and pull it or have a store open it before it was sold,they would also say which product it is in the email

Dysartes wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:I disagree, if the company is releasing Quality/ Return Policy guidance to retailers then the amount of returns must be well beyond the acceptable norm that all manufacturers factor into their production runs.

Don't feed the troll (or white knight), mwnciboo - take a look at his posting history.

I was working on typing up some valid counter arguments, but I think I am going to heed your advice as well.

1) The Decapitator has been a member on this forum for some time. He has posted other rumours in this section before, as well as general discussion, and from my experience he has been a conscientious and sensible poster. A previous rumour, remarking that the Necrons had been removed from the display cabinets in WHW prior to the new codex being released, turned out to be correct.

2) You haven't been a member of this forum for a long time and therefore have no way of knowing whether the Decapitator (or any other forum member for that matter) is lying or not. Generally speaking, making a slur on someone's credibility (essentially coming in and firing from the hip, machine gun in both hands) generally won't endear you to many members on here.

3) The OP content is not exactly controversial. Mark Wells himself, the CEO of GW, commented that they were having some teething troubles early into the Finecast release. If the OP was going to lie, then why not make it something like 'GW staff member slapped me when I asked for refund' or 'Finecast killed my baby!' You know, something more dramatic?

I'm sorry that you feel there are too many anti-Finecast threads on this forum. Unfortunately, conscientious consumers often feel it is their right to complain, rather than just shrugging their shoulders and continuing to hand over their money for a below-standard product. Ultimately this will be for the benefit of every person who buys GW miniatures, if GW can get their QC sorted out, and by extension the kids who are buying miscast product and not replacing it because they don't know any better.

Whether you think they are all false or not, I ask you this: How many pictures of miscast GW miniatures used to appear, before the release of Finecast? I'm struggling to think of a single example. I think this comparison tells you everything you need to know about the validity of the OP.

hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

My disagreement is that a certain degree of error/returns and replacements is the acceptable norm in manufacturing. Companies do it all the time, they do not however send out revised Quality/ Return Policy guidance to retailers on a whim. If this was the case, all manufacturers would constantly and needlessly contact retailers everytime Joe Bloggs returned a single item. The fact GW has, IMHO indicates that the returns are beyond the normal acceptable level. Grabbing figures from thin air, i am guessing most people are happy with finecast, but what is most? 90%, 51%, 66% thats some fairly big numbers? 99% still gives 1 in a 100 unhappy. From ancedotal and a personal standpoint I have seen Finecast Necrons in Firestormgames and 5 models of the Necron Lord with the Resurrection Orb were appalling.

For the record, I believe Swordwind99 is not a troll. A discussion forum is for active discussion and debate, naming anyone that doesn't believe what you believe a Troll really means you probably don't understand the value of true debate.

I have in some encounters, conceeded defeated to articulate persons that have won me round to their way of thinking if their reasoning was sound / mine was not. It's about the personal confidence and self objectivity to actually say, well what I originally thought was wrong, strength of Character comes from this, not sticking to a losing point because you are to proud to say "Mea Culpa".

Lots of people have different opinions than me, and I don't consider them a Troll no matter how much I argue with them.

There is a certain tone of voice and attitude that earns somebody a Troll label.

Length of forum membership does not mean hes automatically right or that i am wrong,if your happy just to follow like sheep thats sad. Either way if tbe problem existed it eouldnt be handelled in the way described in opening post,it isnt the correct GW proceedure


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d-usa wrote:Lots of people have different opinions than me, and I don't consider them a Troll no matter how much I argue with them.

There is a certain tone of voice and attitude that earns somebody a Troll label.

stay in topic buddy,my preferance for bridges isnt the topic of discussion

Tone of Voice? On something you write?

I know what you mean! Reaching early for the insult button and then abusing someone for not agreeing is counter productive. Condescension and patronizing is a little annoying but not illegal, the truth of it is we are all very passionate about our hobby and that leads to hot-headiness.

mwnciboo wrote:Tone of Voice? On something you write?

I know what you mean! Reaching early for the insult button and then abusing someone for not agreeing is counter productive. Condescension and patronizing is a little annoying but not illegal, the truth of it is we are all very passionate about our hobby and that leads to hot-headiness.

But if two people are standing at opposite corners of the street spreading the same message, and one of them is calm and collected and the other is insulting people and rambling along, then there will be two very different oppinions about them.

As an example:

"Guys, this could be a rumor, we know that Finecast has had problems but we need to be reasonable"

vs.

"Sheeple! This is pure fearmongering and you finecast haters are all patting yourself on your GW hating backs!!!!"

Also, see post above yours

Agreed.

mwnciboo wrote:hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

No, of course it doesn't invalidate their opinion. But, it can affect the premise of their argument, in this case that The Decapitator is trying to be scurrilous with the OP to court popular opinion. Had Swordwind99 been a member for longer, and seen the Decapitator's previous posts, I don't think he would have made that comment.

I don't think Swordwind99 is a troll either. I understand the point he is trying to make - no doubt it is partly correct, people of similar opinion do tend to congregate for mutual back-slapping. That being said, there is no smoke without fire, and the large amount of evidence - not only on this forum, but from retailers refusing to sell FC (Wayland), and comments from around every part of the interweb, shows that it is not at all baseless. As is often the case, the 'truth' is probably somewhere between the two extremes.

Sadly we do get the occasional poster who has previously been held peacefully and lovingly by GW, only for a needle to be applied to edge of the bubble. Each new release was a moment of joy, the shop a shining light on the high-street, and each article in White Dwarf committed to memory (even Jervis' column). Then, they come to the dark and seedy under-belly of the hobby (here ), where terrible secrets are laid bare, and that bubble begins to burst. The instinctive result is to lash out "You're all lying!", and return to the loving and warm arms of GW (even though those arms have started to look a little more hairy, you can see a tattoo, and the hands look bruising), although Swordwind99 has made his argument it in a somewhat better manner than most.

And at least he hasn't disappeared after a temper tantrum and moderator warning like some other previous posters have.

The thing is, as much as I understand people's opinions, I quite clearly don't have an issue with GW, especially to result in 'Scaremongering'.

I quite clearly state that in my experience I've never had a problem with GW exchanging/refunding Finecast models that I've had a problem with.

I'm simply passing on information and asking people to be especially vigilant with anything they purchase this weekend. Nothing more, nothing less.

I thought about posting the original email, buy you know what, it's not worth it. If people want to listen then that's cool, if not then that's also cool! Just getting the relevant info out there, whether people take it on board is another thing entirely!

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

I have 4 armies + terrain pieces from Spartan and had a few pieces that were slightly miscast/damaged in delivery (6 parts in total). Contacted Spartan and they posted out the replacement parts without a issue.

I have no hesitation about buying Spartan stuff online

zombie wrote:

Relapse wrote:Does Spartan or Privateer have these kind of issues? I ask because I've seen some of their resins and they look really good.
I would imagine they must have some problems, just not to the degree GW has, since I've not seen any real complaint threads for them.

I have 4 armies + terrain pieces from Spartan and had a few pieces that were slightly miscast/damaged in delivery (6 parts in total). Contacted Spartan and they posted out the replacement parts without a issue.

I have no hesitation about buying Spartan stuff online

Never bought Spartan, but I purchased a metal box of Temple Flame Guard (PP) and it was short one model. I used their website to report it and within a week I had two replacement models.

Went to the GW at Rundle Mall, Adelaide, the staff insisted that finecast was a non issue hyped up by the internet and only two people total had either come in to get a replacement from the internet or needed a replacement on the spot since it came out. Apparently, Wayland Games refusing to stock Finecast (citation needed on that) is an "unreliable and biased source", purely because it's on the internet. I'm... kind of over this crap. I wonder if they'll admit this policy exists if I go in there next week?

Sorry if I will come across aggressive but I don't give a rats ass if GW admits or not its biggest failure and I also don't care if one, two or a million persons like finecast because this is my hobby and my money and if IMO and experience they produce overpriced miscasts I will simply not buy!

As for the trolling yeah kind of predictable and to be honest its sad t see the lengths people go to try to justify the unjustifiable...

swordwind99 wrote:Changing someones action by causing fear or worry is scaremongery,by claiming an email exists without proof about the quality of a release could change peoples mind on the purchases because they worry about the quality.

This is in no way "causing fear". Spreading news of a bomb on the Underground, that's "causing fear". This rumor, at its worst, only amounts to spreading misinformation that might affect a few people's hobby spending habits in the immediate future. Your words are willfully escalating the situation by claiming effects far in excess of what is in evidence.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Avakael wrote:Went to the GW at Rundle Mall, Adelaide, the staff insisted that finecast was a non issue hyped up by the internet and only two people total had either come in to get a replacement from the internet or needed a replacement on the spot since it came out. Apparently, Wayland Games refusing to stock Finecast (citation needed on that) is an "unreliable and biased source", purely because it's on the internet. I'm... kind of over this crap. I wonder if they'll admit this policy exists if I go in there next week?

They appear to be stocking Finecast now, though with an amusing disclaimer:

Wayland Games wrote:Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase.

However, they refused to stock the initial batch, posting this:

Wayland Games wrote:We regret that we are not presently retailing the Citadel Finecast range.

Unfortunately, a randomly sampled assessment revealed what we feel to be an excessive level of actual and potential flaws that, if reflected across our entire stock of Finecast, could have resulted in unacceptable inconvenience to our customers. Although we will be returning our present stockholding to the manufacturer, please be assured that we remain committed to carrying the Finecast line and will be restocking in due course.

For your information, we sampled and then assessed 60 sealed blisters with 30 taken at random from each of two deliveries of stock. Failures were 17 (57%) of 30 and 16 (53%) of 30, making 33 (55%) of 60 in total. While failure doesn’t necessarily denote the blister content as being of less than merchantable quality, for our purposes it does categorise it as having a visible flaw that might be of sufficient concern to a customer such that the item might be returned. Details and images were provided to the manufacturer, with redacted copies of the images appearing below.

Please note, the blisters remain sealed and so images were taken through the product packaging.

One of the failures was due to some form of hair being included in the blister, as I recall - if you do a search of News & Rumours for Wayland Games and Finecast, you should find the post on here with the details (and pictures) in.

Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).


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Agamemnon2 wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:Changing someones action by causing fear or worry is scaremongery,by claiming an email exists without proof about the quality of a release could change peoples mind on the purchases because they worry about the quality.

This is in no way "causing fear". Spreading news of a bomb on the Underground, that's "causing fear". This rumor, at its worst, only amounts to spreading misinformation that might affect a few people's hobby spending habits in the immediate future. Your words are willfully escalating the situation by claiming effects far in excess of what is in evidence.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Topic is finecast not the definition of english words,if it helps i was using artistic licence or over exagerating to make a point,but its the point that is important not what you think scaremongery means

swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

Yes yes we know internet is bad and Online retailers freeloaders we have heard that BS before sir...

Promoted to the ignore list in only 27 posts, most impressive.

swordwind99 wrote:There are far more satisfied finecast customers than unsatisfied,the sheep nature of the forums means however people are unfairly convinced the medium is terrible. Resin has its limitations regardless of the manufacture but GW have to be dragged over the coals for everything they do while other companies enjoy the keys to the forum city

I'd watch out with language like that kid, especially on this forum, you might as well have said you approve of gay marriage in the Deep South of America. What you said may be true, but until FC gets its act together, the people who dislike it will vastly outnumber those who just accept an inferior model and fix it. Me? I've only bought one, Inquisitor Corteaz, and he's all kinds of perfect, but my brother bought a Lord Commissar and it looked like it's been dropped in a vat of acid. That's a 50/50 win ratio for my family, now, by no means is that representative of all FC purchases, but it's still pretty terrible for 'the best models evarrrrr'.

People need to learn what a 'troll' actually is. It's someone who posts things just to rile up/get a reaction from other people. It's like a form of malicious devil's advocate in a lot of ways.

So unless we can prove that swordwind99 is saying what he is saying out of a desire to cause trouble, then we cannot call him a troll. Thusly, lacking said evidence to prove such a claim, all we can do is call him clueless or, at best, ignorant to the very real and very well documented problems with Finecost, problems that no amount of ad hominems, white knighting and wishful thinking will suddenly make disappear overnight.

Just look at the fething pictures people have been posting of the Ltd. Ed. 25th Marine. It's awful!!!

A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I've bought a total of 11 FC models all but one online and all of them were totally fine. It's very nice to see all the detail that gets left behind by metal casting.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online

Please, tell another!


He went through ten alone: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

But you're right, everyone else is getting perfect models. These people are just wanting to incite riots!


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SlaveToDorkness wrote:
all of them were totally fine.

They were "fine", or they were the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this.?

I've bought Finecast models that were fine but don't kid yourself about the flaws being exaggerated. By far the majority of my Finecast purchases needed to have parts (in some cases the whole thing) replaced for some reason or another. I swear GW stores have a metric ton of Finecast that are stop-lossed as customer replacements. Also, almost half of the 25th Anniversary figures I purchased have some bit or another that I need to ship back to GW for replacement. That is NOT "totally fine".

You dont understand Puma they were only FINE not CASTed... and I agree! The miniatures are FINE for the most part... just not well casted

NAVARRO wrote:You dont understand Puma they were only FINE not CASTed... and I agree! The miniatures are FINE for the most part... just not well casted

Well, they may not be "well" casted, but they're quite certainly casted. So long as they're fine, the name fits in the most cynical way.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

swordwind99 wrote:Topic is finecast not the definition of english words,if it helps i was using artistic licence or over exagerating to make a point,but its the point that is important not what you think scaremongery means

Artistic license can scarcely be considered apply on a forum that's supposed to be about real, factual information. Unless the concept of the truth has no bearing on your posts at all, good sir.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I'd like to see these pictures of perfect casts as well. Not that I don't believe you, so much as I haven't and I'm curious.

You say that the vast majority of players haven't had issues. Unless you've got someone sitting outside ever single GWS in the world polling people as they leave, you have absolutely no idea if that's true. You appear to have mostly gotten good products, and that's good, but it's anecdotal evidence. I've gotten 2 finecast models + 1 replacement, and all had some significant issues (one was utterly unusable). I guess I could use my own anecdotal evidence to say that 100% of finecast models are messed up, but that would be a foolish extrapolation to make.

Since we don't have the previously mentioned polling going, all we have are a collection of forum-goers with their own anecdotal evidence, and how trustworthy those specific people are. If you filter out the extreme opinions - both the people who clearly dislike GWS and slam them at every opportunity, and their counterparts who defend GWS no matter the situation - we still have a rather decent sized consensus of players with long posting histories here, good reputations, no real agenda, who both praise and penalize GWS depending, who have posted they are getting unusable models.

The email seems real, and atop that, reasonable - there may be some bad models going out, so check them, and take care of your customers. Doesn't that seem... not quite hyperbolic enough for a fake email? Wouldn't a fake include some juicy flamebait material to really stoke the drama, along the lines of "limiting returns", or store credit only, or some such?

The bottom line is that the stores are directed to make sure their customers are happy, and to try and fix what is easily fixable if the customer is amenable to it. A reasonable message from a respected poster. I don't see this either as fake, or really a big deal. If anything, it's a good thing stores are aware that some models may have QC issues and encourage customers to check them before they do.

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

swordwind99 wrote:

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DI6Ckm_0u_Do&v=I6Ckm_0u_Do&gl=GB

Sweet! Siberian Huskies!

swordwind99 wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DI6Ckm_0u_Do&v=I6Ckm_0u_Do&gl=GB

Did you even look at what you linked?

Vijay Kumar: Robots that fly ... and cooperate

Bruno - Number One

Movies In Minutes - Chronicle

Prometheus - Peter Weyland TED 2023 [OFFICIAL CLIP] - HD -


SO far you have nothing. YOU SAID you saw pictures on other forums. What forums? Where? Dont be going to youtube. Back your opinion up.

That link is not working for me, it's bringing up 4 random videos.

This is funny in a wrong messed up way

He should send his Youtube link back to Youtube for a replacement.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

A few?

'callin BS on that my now ignored friend.

Even GW has admited their are problems and you continue to defend them?

Sir, I believe you are a troll.

Ouze wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I'd like to see these pictures of perfect casts as well. Not that I don't believe you, so much as I haven't and I'm curious.

You say that the vast majority of players haven't had issues. Unless you've got someone sitting outside ever single GWS in the world polling people as they leave, you have absolutely no idea if that's true. You appear to have mostly gotten good products, and that's good, but it's anecdotal evidence. I've gotten 2 finecast models + 1 replacement, and all had some significant issues (one was utterly unusable). I guess I could use my own anecdotal evidence to say that 100% of finecast models are messed up, but that would be a foolish extrapolation to make.

Since we don't have the previously mentioned polling going, all we have are a collection of forum-goers with their own anecdotal evidence, and how trustworthy those specific people are. If you filter out the extreme opinions - both the people who clearly dislike GWS and slam them at every opportunity, and their counterparts who defend GWS no matter the situation - we still have a rather decent sized consensus of players with long posting histories here, good reputations, no real agenda, who both praise and penalize GWS depending, who have posted they are getting unusable models.

The email seems real, and atop that, reasonable - there may be some bad models going out, so check them, and take care of your customers. Doesn't that seem... not quite hyperbolic enough for a fake email? Wouldn't a fake include some juicy flamebait material to really stoke the drama, along the lines of "limiting returns", or store credit only, or some such?

The bottom line is that the stores are directed to make sure their customers are happy, and to try and fix what is easily fixable if the customer is amenable to it. A reasonable message from a respected poster. I don't see this either as fake, or really a big deal. If anything, it's a good thing stores are aware that some models may have QC issues and encourage customers to check them before they do.

This.....

+1

swordwind99 wrote:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

Yeah. . take a look at that Power Fist! Flawless!





And the belt buckle. . and the grenade. . .and the banner. Actually, these pictures don't help your case much at all.

Possibly a silly question, but - should we be able to see the table surface through the power fist?

swordwind99 wrote:

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

Only had a quick glance at that video but already spotted mould slip on the back of the right leg greave and a casting void in the back of the left shoulder pad.

Well, I bought Draigo at GW Hamburg I recently. The redshirt opened the blister and looked at it thoroughly to see if it had a flaw. No flaw there.

Dysartes wrote:Possibly a silly question, but - should we be able to see the table surface through the power fist?

Truly the mark of a flawless model.

wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please

Really? I'm hard to please by wanting a model that doesn't have gaping holes that I have to sculpt, pockmarks that I have to fill in and areas that I can see through? Not only that, but I want those things at a premium price? How dare I!

Don't come into this forum calling everyone else sheep when you're the one that is blindly following GW, spending your money (or your parent's money?) on their poorly-casted products, then preaching that everyone else is wrong when all the evidence points to the contrary.

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

When I pay 35 quid, I expect my model to not be full of holes and gaps, misshapen parts and broken parts.

I expect it to be of excellent quality.

Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

Welcome to Dakkadaka Swordwind...

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

Well, if you want to play that card, I do have two painting contest wins to my name, for my diorama work.

Wow calm down. You cant get annoyed when you defend your flimsy case with the pictures of a "Flawless" Model. People Will. Call your bluff on that, and if they find it different, will declare bs on it. Dont get annoyed because you had a poor argument.

swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

OK, this is the point at which your argument loses credibility. Somewhere in this sentence, in amongst the car-wreckage of grammar and spelling, you are trying to imply that Wayland would stop selling it's most popular lines because it harboured a grudge? I feel a good dose of common sense is needed at this point.

Unfortunately, such a statement destroys the credibility of any other arguments you may care to make. Please go on, continuing to shout from the rooftops. I will answer each point you make with the word "fish". Because, such senseless arguments deserve no better a reply.

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

Not winning any friends here running verbal diarrhoea like that buddy. I'm guessing you're saying I should get on my knees and be thankful for those extra holes and gaps in my models, meaning less resin spent on this model and one more resin model for someone else? I should also be grateful for the bent parts, which have been "pre-converted" by GW to make it easier for me to do my own stuff?

When I pay a feth-load of money for a model that is advertised as the best, I expect the best, not this hubris. It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for. Get with the program lamb.

2 Golden Demons and a case full of Best Armies


No Finecast issues.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:2 Golden Demons

Wow, Keith you have 2 Golden Daemons? Didn't know that. Awesome

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

The statement is entirely subjective. I think I got a good deal when I get ten space marines off ebay for three quid, my missus thinks I got ripped off.

Your "right" as a customer is that of choice. You either buy something or you don't, that's your decision.

I personally wont buy any Finecast models at the moment because an unusually high percentage of their models are flawed, thats my decision. Three days ago I ordered a Scibor mini for my TDA libby instead of the finecast one due to me using Wayland Games and I'm too lazy to send it back and mess around if it happens to arrive heavily flawed, but it has cost me £5.17 more (17.50 instead of the GW Librarian at 12.33)

If I got a well made FC TDA librarian model for my money, I personally would be very happy with it.

blood reaper wrote:
Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it,

Primer and paint dont fill in holes.

No people arent hard to please. We just think that if we're going to pay porche prices, we should get a porche product, not a used car,

are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything

Some might be, Not me. Its not 10 times the size, but nice try.

, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

People are fairly easy going here. Except when it comes to liars and trolls who make unsupported claims, and then cant back them up.

SO again, what forums did you see those flawless anniversary models? Whats the link?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:2 Golden Demons and a case full of Best Armies


No Finecast issues.

Lucky. As I said, If I was guaranteed a good model I would have prefered the GW Librarian to the Scibor one cos It was a fiver cheaper. But I'm too lazy to mess around in case I get a shagged one.


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carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it,

No people arent hard to please. We just think that if we're going to pay porche prices, we should get a porche product, not a used car,

Awful analogy. The GW model I was going to buy was £5.17 cheaper than the Scibor one Ive ended up buying.

Are Scibor products Rolls Royce prices?

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

That model costs $33 and it's a limited edition. Personally I don't think anyone complaining about it is "hard to please" and is instead expecting to get what they fething paid for.

I got a close up look at the 25th Anniversary Space Marine and damn was that a sweet model.

Not a bubble on it as I could tell.

/anecdotal evidence.

Matty, the scibor stuff is in no way as detailed as the GW stuff. I'm continually amazed at the prices he charges.

mattyrm wrote:

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

The statement is entirely subjective. I think I got a good deal when I get ten space marines off ebay for three quid, my missus thinks I got ripped off.

Your "right" as a customer is that of choice. You either buy something or you don't, that's your decision.

I personally wont buy any Finecast models at the moment because an unusually high percentage of their models are flawed, thats my decision. Three days ago I ordered a Scibor mini for my TDA libby instead of the finecast one due to me using Wayland Games and I'm too lazy to send it back and mess around if it happens to arrive heavily flawed, but it has cost me £5.17 more (17.50 instead of the GW Librarian at 12.33)

If I got a well made FC TDA librarian model for my money, I personally would be very happy with it.

blood reaper wrote:
Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

When a majority has proved his statements to be almost completley wrong and in the edge of trolling, I think his argument has been shot down.

mattyrm wrote:

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

So, if someone says, "Here is a sandwich with bacon, lettuce and tomato." and you open it up and it is hamburger, cheese and onions, you don't think you have a "right" as a paying customer to expect to receive exactly what you're sold?

I disagree. "Buyer beware" is a true enough warning, but there has to be some corporate responsibility, otherwise you get the issues that we're getting with Finecast. People are buying it, with the flaws and asking for replacements. Then, they go do the same thing again, so why should GW change? Because they owe their customers what they told them they would give them.

If you bought an Xbox game and brought it home and it had a PS2 game in it, you would take it back. If it happened 10 more times, you'd start to wonder about their responsibility to you to provide you with an Xbox game rather than a PS2 game.

mattyrm wrote:Awful analogy. The GW model I was going to buy was £5.17 cheaper than the Scibor one Ive ended up buying.

Are Scibor products Rolls Royce prices?

I'm not sure what your point is. GW have compared themselves to companies like Porsche, comparing their product to theirs in quality, and aren't delivering. That you can find another product of higher quality that costs more than what GW's selling is pretty pointless in my opinion. I'm sure there are other automobile manufacturers that sell cars for even higher prices than Porsche (I don't know much about this since not being a millionaire I've never seriously looked into it), but that doesn't mean that we can suddenly excuse Porsche for selling a product that isn't up to their usual standards, does it?

Or maybe it does, if the concept of getting what you pay for is "nonsense" to you.

mattyrm wrote:
His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

Really? He clearly stated that he saw some LD model pictures on other forums. When asked, he linked to some screwed up youtube items that had no bearing.

His arguement was shot down. And somehow I dont think your remotely impartial.

Call me crazy but I got the same feeling. We're all apparently "overreacting", and despite the fact that he himself has stated multiple times he won't buy it because he's not satisfied with the quality, apparently those of us who ARE buying it and also aren't satisfied are expecting too much, acting entitled, and whatever other bs GW white knights spew out to make the point that we're all whiny, crying children for expecting a ridiculously expensive product to have some kind of quality control to ensure you get something that doesn't belong in the fething garbage.

Sidstyler wrote:[ excuse Porsche for selling a product that isn't up to their usual standards, does it?

It goes deeper than that, way deeper, for the most part all resin, plastic and metal casters in this industry DO NOT consistently sell miscasts.

carmachu wrote:

His arguement was shot down. And somehow I dont think your remotely impartial.

I havent bought a single finecast model and I wont as long as the current issues remain.

Explain to me then why I'm not impartial?

Because you're giving nothing but gak to people who have and weren't satisfied, going as far as suggesting that we aren't entitled to the basic consumer rights that we're supposed to have. Expecting a product to live up to the industry standards or hell, the standard that a company themselves managed to achieve years prior, is "nonsense".

My experience with finecast is basically ok, but what bugs me is the idea that tiny flaws (i.e. the small bubbles you see in any finecast model) are acceptable.

Also, unbending swords, staffs etc, so they stay unbent is a major pain in the bum and I've yet to achieve it to my satisfaction. Even with the hot water / hair dryer approach, they also bend back to the starting position after a few hours.

For these two reasons, I've given up with finecast. I have never encountered a major miscast though...

mattyrm wrote:

I havent bought a single finecast model and I wont as long as the current issues remain.

Explain to me then why I'm not impartial?

The facts of the matter dont bear you out. So what that you dont buy any. Your excusing swordwind, when the facts in the matter dont bear out on the matter. He didnt show what he claimed. Yet you claimed the facts where there if one was impartial on the matter.

Shows your not, not that the other person was.

Sidstyler wrote:Call me crazy but I got the same feeling. We're all apparently "overreacting", and despite the fact that he himself has stated multiple times he won't buy it because he's not satisfied with the quality, apparently those of us who ARE buying it and also aren't satisfied are expecting too much, acting entitled, and whatever other bs GW white knights spew out to make the point that we're all whiny, crying children for expecting a ridiculously expensive product to have some kind of quality control to ensure you get something that doesn't belong in the fething garbage.

The above post illustrates the point I am making. Whats with all the rage? Is it because you take your hobby far too seriously and your filled with hate because the leader in the field charges alot for their models and this upsets you?

I merely have a passing interest in the hobby, I play maybe once or twice every few months and paint 2 or 3 hours a week. I'm firmly in the middle ground.

As a result I care little for GW as a corporate entity, and at the same time, I find grown men raging because "boo hoo GW are expensive and I cant afford to buy 8 landraiders" laughable to the extreme as well. The point I was clearly making was that if a model has a few tiny flaws, its a normal model. And people at the other end of the spectrum to "white knights" (not a term I heard before dakka) are being ridiculously fussy and mocking people who say "my model is decent it only has two tiny holes in so Im keeping it". And this mockery is unfair, laughable and childish.

All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic. You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models. If you wouldn't spew hate and demand to change your plastic AOBR dread or AOW beserkers thanks to two minuscule holes, then why are you doing so with Finecast?

Not that the three or four detractors of mine are reading any of my posts fully. Your basically doing the old "slippery slope" argument that I see so often in the OT forum.

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger and decides he wants to keep it and fix the issue himself. That is his business.

Seriously, ill give you lads some news. Most people see things my way because most people don't fall into the category of polar opposites you have created with regards to Games Workshop. I have a healthy relationship with the hobby, and so do the majority of people. Dakka has some ridiculous "white knights" that think GW are like their benevolent all loving parents who can never do any wrong, and it also has plenty of "dark detractors" that seem to have a bizarre irrational hatred for the product.

Here I have earned the ire of several of the latter, and I'm more happy to debate the point with you, because im not a GW fanboy, and If you bothered to read my posts all the way through you would see I am also ignoring finecast! I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered modelling fanatics with bad attitudes.






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carmachu wrote:

The facts of the matter dont bear you out.

Some FC models are proper fethed, some aren't. What facts don't bear me out?

Actually if you read this topic carefully it's the exact opposite, those same Little fellas you are referring to are the ones making all kinds of accusations... in fact you also seem very fast on calling people childish more than a few times in different threads... not that I care much just saying if it disturbs you so much the verbal abuse maybe just maybe you should look at it from all perspectives

NAVARRO wrote:Actually if you read this topic carefully it's the exact opposite, those same Little fellas you are referring to are the ones making all kinds of accusations... in fact you also seem very fast on calling people childish more than a few times in different threads... not that I care much just saying if it disturbs you so much the verbal abuse maybe just maybe you should look at it from all perspectives

Yes, and if you read my initial quote I'm simply saying that it appears that people are holding FC stuff to a higher standard than everything else. Thats it.

The conversation has rapidly escalated from its humble beginnings.

Honestly, the haters are all over me like a rash.. I try to play devils advocate for a second and you lot think I've got one hand on my keyboard and the other on Matt Wards ball bag.

I hold Finecast to the same standard as GW plastics and the metals they replaced, and the standard that other, smaller companies than them with less money have managed to achieve with their own resins. GW fails on all accounts.

And this somehow makes me an overreacting rager with a hatedick for GW who takes the hobby way too seriously blah blah what the feth ever.

mattyrm wrote:
All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic.

I have yet to find these sorts of flaws in the plastic models that I get. They don't have pieces missing off of their bodes, holes where fingers should be or misshapen heads. If they did, I would be complaining about them too.

mattrym wrote: You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models.

Apparently you haven't read about Finecast:

"Our Citadel Finecast models are the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this."

What does that say to you? Does that indicate that Finecast should be held at a higher standard than all the other models? The price sure suggest so.

mattrym wrote:

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

It was about getting what you pay for. What you consider "nonsense." Of course, you didn't answer the analogy. You simply dodged it.

mattrym wrote:Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger

These sorts of statements are what's getting you put into the "white knight" category. This is hyperbolic. You know damn well that this is more than "a mildly warped finger". Obviously, you haven't been keeping up with the state of a lot of these models. Here's another Golden Daemon winner that maybe you should read up on: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

mattyrm wrote:. I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered

Aww, that's sweet of you. Unfortunately, none of the "little guys" have been berated because they are happy with their purchases. If you could quote someone that said, "I like Finecast." and then someone detracting them, then I'd like to see it. swordwind did not do that, however. He started spouting about how great Finecast was, how Finecast was perfect and that all the internet rage is overblown hype meant to bring GW down. Then, he goes on to show an example of his "perfect model" and it is anything but. Someone like that will get berated, and doesn't need anyone sticking up for them.


For the record, SlavetoDorkness, Breotan and wuestenfux all commented on how they are happy or "fine" with their purchases and none of them drew any ire.

@Mattrym Well I would be happy if fine cast was just on the same level as anything else! Unfortunately its many levels bellow to the point of being out of my hobby. I'm not a hater or a lover and don't be fooled in thinking I have any grudge towards you or any company, but if someone new to the forum enters saying we are sheep or forum community blind etc well its going to raise some comments.

And thats the thing isn't it? I mean if you just want a miniature to paint from GW you either buy plastic or hunt for metal on ebay... because fine cast is not an option anymore and with so many new release and FINE models being exclusively released just in finecast you can understand some of us are not happy... oh and if you have a incomplete army and decided NOT to get FC then its all new deal of frustration...

Again means nothing to me if GW identifies the fiasco if it doesn't do anything about it.

puma713 wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic.

I have yet to find these sorts of flaws in the plastic models that I get. They don't have pieces missing off of their bodes, holes where fingers should be or misshapen heads. If they did, I would be complaining about them too.

mattrym wrote: You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models.

Apparently you haven't read about Finecast:

"Our Citadel Finecast models are the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this."

What does that say to you? Does that indicate that Finecast should be held at a higher standard than all the other models? The price sure suggest so.

mattrym wrote:

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

It was about getting what you pay for. What you consider "nonsense." Of course, you didn't answer the analogy. You simply dodged it.

mattrym wrote:Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger

These sorts of statements are what's getting you put into the "white knight" category. This is hyperbolic. You know damn well that this is more than "a mildly warped finger". Obviously, you haven't been keeping up with the state of a lot of these models. Here's another Golden Daemon winner that maybe you should read up on: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

mattyrm wrote:. I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered

Aww, that's sweet of you. Unfortunately, none of the "little guys" have been berated because they are happy with their purchases. If you could quote someone that said, "I like Finecast." and then someone detracting them, then I'd like to see it. swordwind did not do that, however. He started spouting about how great Finecast was, how Finecast was perfect and that all the internet rage is overblown hype meant to bring GW down. Then, he goes on to show an example of his "perfect model" and it is anything but. Someone like that will get berated, and doesn't need anyone sticking up for them.

Alright Alright, Ill hold my hands up, Stormwind does clearly seem to be a bit of a "white knight" and I was simply sticking up for him after you jumped off the wrong end of my first comment and utterly overreacted to my initial post whereby I simply stated that I believed people were asking for more from their FC models than all of their other ones, and I agree with much of what you say.

As I said, there needs to be a healthy balance between being a ridiculous fan boy and a ridiculous hater.

Anyway.....

sidstyler wrote:And this somehow makes me an overreacting rager with a hatedick for GW who takes the hobby way too seriously blah blah what the feth ever.

Ok so I'm thinking this is getting seriously OT and people resorting to arguing and skirting on personal insults really isn't on.

I posted the original post as a way of informing the community of a potential issue with this weekends Finecast releases, so that we could be in the know and be extra vigilant as to not be disappointed.

If nobody has anything else constructive to add and insist on partaking in round the houses arguments in which nobody will actually agree then I vote that the thread is locked.

Anything else right now is pointless!

mattyrm wrote:

Alright Alright, Ill hold my hands up, Stormwind does clearly seem to be a bit of a "white knight" and I was simply sticking up for him after you jumped off the wrong end of my first comment and utterly overreacted to my initial post whereby I simply stated that I believed people were asking for more from their FC models than all of their other ones, and I agree with much of what you say.

As I said, there needs to be a healthy balance between being a ridiculous fan boy and a ridiculous hater.

Anyway.....

Fair enough.

The Decapitator wrote:Ok so I'm thinking this is getting seriously OT and people resorting to arguing and skirting on personal insults really isn't on.

I posted the original post as a way of informing the community of a potential issue with this weekends Finecast releases, so that we could be in the know and be extra vigilant as to not be disappointed.

If nobody has anything else constructive to add and insist on partaking in round the houses arguments in which nobody will actually agree then I vote that the thread is locked.

Anything else right now is pointless!

Sorry mate, that's me being confrontational.

I think we can all agree that Finecast is indeed pretty shoddy at the moment, there is a higher than acceptable chance that you will get a gakky model, and its about time GW announced that they are aware of the fact.


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puma713 wrote:

Misquote ^

Hah! Sorry about that mate..

mattyrm wrote:

Sorry mate, that's me being confrontational.

I think we can all agree that Finecast is indeed pretty shoddy at the moment, there is a higher than acceptable chance that you will get a gakky model, and its about time GW announced that they are aware of the fact.

Now he's just being agreeable! Get him! *waves pitchfork*

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

I hate to say it my friend but primer and paint expose flaws, they don't hide them. The only way to minimize flaws in a model is to do prep-work like filling in air holes in resin models, maybe giving metal models a miliput wash, removing excessive mold lines with a file or emery board.

I am 100% bias against metal models. I love them I am a ironworker by trade and I like working with metal. I like the feel, the tools I have to use I just like the whole process.

I also like resin a lot because of the amount of detailing you can get with a model. The KD stuff looks amazing especially the Flower Knight. FW stuff looks good also. Scibor and other guys do good work in resin. Even PP is having success with their resin-plastic hybrid.

Why can't GW the company that ' Produces the finest toy solders in the world' get it right? IF they can't get it right why do they pretend that nothing is wrong and ALL Finecast is awsome and amazing and a joy to work with? I believe that's what is pissing most people off more so then the poor quality.

Finecast as the potential to be a good medium for producing toy solders with. Right now it's got major problems IMHO. I also believe the 'Annual GW price adjustment' that hit right before FC came out did not do them any favors.

swordwind99 just trolled you guys for the last 4 pages -.-


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swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

See at first I thought you were trolling, till I read that.
Then I realized you have zero concept on how business works.

Reminds me of...

mattyrm wrote:

Some FC models are proper fethed, some aren't. What facts don't bear me out?

And your still doing it. Your still ignoring the facts in the thread, in regards to swordwind or whoever he is. Your playing the "what facts? I dont see any?" ignorgance.

That is a perfect example of why it should be illegal to upload your own video to the internet.

mattyrm wrote:
Yes, and if you read my initial quote I'm simply saying that it appears that people are holding FC stuff to a higher standard than everything else. Thats it.

No their not. Your full of crap in that sentence. I expect finecast to equal the metal and plastic models that GW has previously released. I've had very very very FEW miscasts in the metal models I owned, dating back to 1990. HAve I gotten them? Sure. But Its so few and far between that Its easily dealt with.

NEVER has any manufacturer, much less GW in years prior, said "hey have them open them at the counter to make sure they have no problems,

Folks expect that same qaulity they have had before. You arent getting it in finecast as you were in metal. ESPECIALLY at the higher GW hype and higher GW price their charging for models that use to be metal.

carmachu wrote:DIE, PRONOUNS...DIE!

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models. They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with. There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

Ok, I was at GW today and checked a few Finecast models from the people in the store and the new Clamshells. I didn't see any miscasts on any of the models - granted, it was a small sample size (3 or 4 Arjac Rockfists - who is actually much more awesome looking than the picture would suggest! ) and a couple TWC Wolf Lords. Just sayin' since the thread will probably be filled with Failcast reports soon enough...

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with.

True. But then again they will last alot longer, less chance of you screwing up when your working with metal. Fine cast is so soft you have to be real careful, more so oevr plastic, you dont cut something you shouldnt.

But then again I cut my teeth on metal, so its easy for me.

There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

Not yet its not. Not in the long run yet. Its still not better then metal as of yet in terms of quality. Further I know how my metal models have stood the test of time- I have some that are 22 years old still in great shape. What will your finecast models be in 22 years? Do you know?

Further, NO there hasnt been a sacrifice between mass production and better models- GW has gotten better at mass production, you cant tell me the models arent better now then they were in rogue trader or 2nd ed. So thats just false.

My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Kroothawk wrote:My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Well clearly that just makes you a hyperbolic crybaby GW hater.

Right?

Unfortunately the most recent FC I bought was the last straw. After 11 models, sampled from those only released in FC or rereleased from metal, from the day of their initial release until now, I have had to take every model back at least once. The seer council I bought had to be returned 3 times and then I just gave up. I had more fun putting together a metal obliterator complete with 14 pins than with a single DA master which had to have his star-shaped badge completely reworked with greenstuff because half the pointers were missing, along with the skull in the centre being clogged with rubber from the mould along with other frustrating faults.

Couldn't even return a present given to me (paymaster maneater with multiple faults) to a GW store for replacement parts without a printed receipt from the person who bought it (and I'm a regular). I don't get to keep the faulty pieces, what the hell is this all coming to?

carmachu wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with.

True. But then again they will last alot longer, less chance of you screwing up when your working with metal. Fine cast is so soft you have to be real careful, more so oevr plastic, you dont cut something you shouldnt.

But then again I cut my teeth on metal, so its easy for me.

You have to be careful with FW models (any other resin for that matter) as well. FC models at least have some give to them. FW models break a lot easier. Also resin is lighter so is less prone to breakage if dropped. I've dropped my Huron model twice and it just bounced. Metal would have broken all over the place.

There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

Not yet its not. Not in the long run yet. Its still not better then metal as of yet in terms of quality. Further I know how my metal models have stood the test of time- I have some that are 22 years old still in great shape. What will your finecast models be in 22 years? Do you know?

I meant the production of them improves over time, not the life of the models themselves. I know mine will be in my case safe and sound.

Further, NO there hasnt been a sacrifice between mass production and better models- GW has gotten better at mass production, you cant tell me the models arent better now then they were in rogue trader or 2nd ed. So thats just false.

That's not what I said. Please try and read my posts. There is a sacrifice between mass produced models and higher quality models. Like Forgeworld models. More expensive, more work, more delicate but more detail. Like with historicals. There are a ton of aftermarket add-on parts you can put on a standard kit to make it more realistic. Most of these are harder to work with and require more care than the typical straight out of the box mass-produced kit.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

carmachu wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

Let's test that:

I'll bite. Left fine cast, right metal. Right has some scrud on the storm bolter barrel that looks like nothing I've seen on resin from forge world but have seen on metal. Axe head on left looks like it had a slot in it that looks very clean, like resin. I have no experience with fine cast, no local stores carry it in my area. It is starting to trickle into a store a couple hours away, but nothing I have needed has been in finecast yet. My friends have had some FC fails, but somewhere I have an old Blacktemplar champion with a messed up bolter clip in metal. Course I am crazy, I like single piece minis for troops. If a tallarn falls off the table it's just "back in line trooper". Not true for the missle launcher though, it's off to the med bay for glue. That is why I feel sorry for the tau. Always standing those broadsides on the table edges.....

I could be alone here, or just lucky- but I've bought five finecast products, a wood elf high born, two terminator librarians. tau sniper team, and I think an Emperor's Champion- all perfectly fine with a little bit of clean up.

The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas. Whether the right is finecast or metal, it's definitely the sharper cast.

timetowaste85 wrote:The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas.

I spotted that. But then the Cruxes on the left one, both the shoulder and shin, look sharper than on the right. As does the elbow ribbing on the right arm. From looking at the darker shadowing on the wolf pelt on the right hand model, I suspect that the sharper appearance on the face and torso is just because it has a slightly thinner coat of paint. Over all, and accounting for lighting (as they're not quite facing the exact same direction) I don't see any appreciable difference.

I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Well clearly that just makes you a hyperbolic crybaby GW hater.

Right?

Yeah, exactly. feth you and your consumer rights, you whiny little bitch!

*Does a quick Google image search for a crying child to humiliate my opponent and to prove to everyone that I'm totally more mature and laid back about my hobby than they are.*

infinite_array wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

carmachu wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

Let's test that:

Spoiler:

Look at both models. One is metal, the other is Finecast. Tell me which one is Finecast, and the reasoning behind your answer.

lol, now that's what I'm fething talking about. I can't really tell a difference between them. At first it seems like maybe the right model has sharper detail, but as Insaniak pointed out the lighting is slightly different because they aren't facing the same way, so I honestly can't tell. Personally my gut tells me the left one is probably Finecast since one of the feet looks kinda messy. The mold lines on the axe head might kinda give it away, too, since the one on the right looks more like a metal model to me for some reason. Without any gigantic holes or obvious miscasts it's way too hard to tell if you ask me, so I'm saying there's no real difference and "Finecast has more detail" is just a myth.

Thing is, resin casting can provide better detail than metal. With Finecast you are still limited by the quality sculpt of the master, the quality of the resin (much doubt here) and the quality of the mold. Forge World has shown with their character models that they can exceed the metals GW has put out. New sculpts in Finecast seem to hold incredibly crisp details. I've no way to gage models that were once metal and are now finecast because they haven't revisited the sculpts. In fact, all the flaws in the original metals are present in the Finecast, too. Take King Liquor's gryphon for example.

insaniak wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas.

I spotted that. But then the Cruxes on the left one, both the shoulder and shin, look sharper than on the right. As does the elbow ribbing on the right arm. From looking at the darker shadowing on the wolf pelt on the right hand model, I suspect that the sharper appearance on the face and torso is just because it has a slightly thinner coat of paint. Over all, and accounting for lighting (as they're not quite facing the exact same direction) I don't see any appreciable difference.

Look at the direction of the shadow.
Look at the direction of face on left.

Left face = getting hit with light straight on, no where to cast shadow.

We call that "asianized" photo ( basically hit with bright light and it looks airbrushed lol )

How else would you see his mustache ribbons?


The left is the finecast one I think. Look at the feet and the axe.

Left side = FC Right Side = Metal

I would guess left one FC?
Just looking at the texture at the bottom of his feet.

Here you go, tell me im wrong

'Cause, it'll be amusing if it turns out the one on the right is Finecost.

Either way, the fact that you can't really tell the difference shows how the 'they have more detail!' line of thinking is a load of nonsense.

I'll bet it against a failcost fan, if they win, they get the failcost wolf guy
if I win, they give me the failcost wolf guy

(aww sounds like I lose even if I win T-T )

Also I was like the first person on the internet to tell everyone how the unprimed metal reflects light hence
why it tricks the eye to think its less detailed.

Hmph HBMC ignoring my PM...

Sidstyler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Well clearly that just makes you a hyperbolic crybaby GW hater.

Right?

Yeah, exactly. feth you and your consumer rights, you whiny little bitch!

*Does a quick Google image search for a crying child to humiliate my opponent and to prove to everyone that I'm totally more mature and laid back about my hobby than they are.*

My "opponent"?! What is this internet mortal combat?

I wrote this

The statement is entirely subjective. I think I got a good deal when I get ten space marines off ebay for three quid, my missus thinks I got ripped off.

Your "right" as a customer is that of choice. You either buy something or you don't, that's your decision.

I personally wont buy any Finecast models at the moment because an unusually high percentage of their models are flawed, thats my decision. Three days ago I ordered a Scibor mini for my TDA libby instead of the finecast one due to me using Wayland Games and I'm too lazy to send it back and mess around if it happens to arrive heavily flawed, but it has cost me £5.17 more (17.50 instead of the GW Librarian at 12.33)

If I got a well made FC TDA librarian model for my money, I personally would be very happy with it.

And then you went ape gak and for some bizarre reason got personally offended..

We're all apparently "overreacting", and despite the fact that he himself has stated multiple times he won't buy it because he's not satisfied with the quality, apparently those of us who ARE buying it and also aren't satisfied are expecting too much, acting entitled, and whatever other bs GW white knights spew out to make the point that we're all whiny, crying children for expecting a ridiculously expensive product to have some kind of quality control to ensure you get something that doesn't belong in the fething garbage.

Even though I just said I wasnt buying any finecast?!

Simply because I pointed out the obvious fact, that some people do feel that they have got what they paid for, and some people don't- which is an absolute 100% verifiable fact, because not every finecast model is a fethed one, and thousands of people have bought and kept models, and even some people (in this thread as well) have said how happy they are with them.

The reason I then engaged in a bit of gentle ribbing was because I find your overreaction and fury amusing. I clearly stated my point, that your feeling of satisfaction or lack of is subjective, a model that is more than reasonable to one person is worthy of return to another. I clearly stated I personally think FC has issues and I refuse to buy any, but you went off the deep-end and decided I was a a white knight "spewing bs"

The fact is your analogy's are ridiculous, its a 28mm model, its not "omg! Imagine buying a car with no engine!" or "Omg! Imagine buying a bed but instead of a mattress it has a giant hessian sack filled with gravel and smashed glass!" Its a fething plastic toy soldier, and a great many of them have at least something that needs doing to them, even if its just ten seconds slicing a bit of flash off a joint.

But lets not derail the thread again eh? I told Puma I was just yanking some chains, and I am in full agreement with many of the things you and the other GWs detractors have said, evidenced by my initial statement, that I didn't buy a finecast model and paid for a slightly more expensive Scibor one due to the current issues with finecast! So lets just leave it at that eh?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Here you go, tell me im wrong

I'll bet it against a failcost fan, if they win, they get the failcost wolf guy
if I win, they give me the failcost wolf guy

(aww sounds like I lose even if I win T-T )

Also I was like the first person on the internet to tell everyone how the unprimed metal reflects light hence
why it tricks the eye to think its less detailed.

You know how I was saying that people are avoiding the middle ground on this issue?

Isnt it enough to simply say that you can barely tell the difference at all between the models?

I mean, you really cant. Clearly the "enhanced detail" line is nonsense.

But some of the comments on that pic are ridiculous as well, I mean.. "looks like a sandwich"?!

mattyrm wrote:But some of the comments on that pic are ridiculous as well, I mean.. "looks like a sandwich"?!

That might be an important detail in GW's marketing to hungry gamers.

mattyrm wrote: You know how I was saying that people are avoiding the middle ground on this issue?

Isnt it enough to simply say that you can barely tell the difference at all between the models?

I mean, you really cant. Clearly the "enhanced detail" line is nonsense.

But some of the comments on that pic are ridiculous as well, I mean.. "looks like a sandwich"?!

I am me, I dont avoid things. Why should I say " i can barely tell the difference" when you are the one that cant tell the difference?
I sure can tell the difference, I even went through the trouble to photoshop the analysis.

Yes it looks like a sandwhich, maybe my red arrow blocked it, but if you compare it to the original pic, you'll see what im talking about.

My eyes are sharp, and I trust it.

Doesn't look like a very tasty sandwich.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Doesn't look like a very tasty sandwich.

OH FFS HBMC!!!!!!!

the sandwich is the part between his gauntlet and his storm bolter!!!!
the metal one has a nice smooth edge, the left one looks like wobbly layers of 4 stacked together
hence I call it sandwhich!!!!

Certainly you can also see the rest of the analysis? other than the sandwhich?

LunaHound wrote:

mattyrm wrote: You know how I was saying that people are avoiding the middle ground on this issue?

Isnt it enough to simply say that you can barely tell the difference at all between the models?

I mean, you really cant. Clearly the "enhanced detail" line is nonsense.

But some of the comments on that pic are ridiculous as well, I mean.. "looks like a sandwich"?!

I am me, I dont avoid things. Why should I say " i can barely tell the difference" when you are the one that cant tell the difference?
I sure can tell the difference, I even went through the trouble to photoshop the analysis.

Yes it looks like a sandwhich, maybe my red arrow blocked it, but if you compare it to the original pic, you'll see what im talking about.

My eyes are sharp, and I trust it.

Oh come on Luna, my eyes are sharp as well.. I could blow the Gonads off a mosquito from 500 yards!

The models look as near enough for it to matter, identical. Thus, I am on your side of this argument!

Clearly Finecast is no more detailed than metal. But some of the things you have pointed to just look the same to the naked eye, which is all you need models to be good for! If they are on a tabletop you cant magnify the model to x8 magnification with your mk1 eyeballs so it makes no difference right? What do you mean by lack of pressure as well by the way? I dont see any difference between the end of the Stormbolter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:
the sandwich is the part between his gauntlet and his storm bolter!!!!
the metal one has a nice smooth edge, the left one looks like wobbly layers of 4 stacked together
hence I call it sandwhich!!!!

Certainly you can also see the rest of the analysis? other than the sandwhich?

Oh ok.. makes a bit more sense now.

As I said though. The point that they look totally identical anyway is enough right?

mattyrm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

mattyrm wrote: You know how I was saying that people are avoiding the middle ground on this issue?

Isnt it enough to simply say that you can barely tell the difference at all between the models?

I mean, you really cant. Clearly the "enhanced detail" line is nonsense.

But some of the comments on that pic are ridiculous as well, I mean.. "looks like a sandwich"?!

I am me, I dont avoid things. Why should I say " i can barely tell the difference" when you are the one that cant tell the difference?
I sure can tell the difference, I even went through the trouble to photoshop the analysis.

Yes it looks like a sandwhich, maybe my red arrow blocked it, but if you compare it to the original pic, you'll see what im talking about.

My eyes are sharp, and I trust it.

Oh come on Luna, my eyes are sharp as well.. I could blow the Gonads off a mosquito from 500 yards!

The models look as near enough for it to matter, identical. Thus, I am on your side of this argument!

Clearly Finecast is no more detailed than metal. But some of the things you have pointed to just look the same to the naked eye, which is all you need models to be good for! If they are on a tabletop you cant magnify the model to x8 magnification with your mk1 eyeballs so it makes no difference right? What do you mean by lack of pressure as well by the way? I dont see any difference between the end of the Stormbolter.

What on earth? You REALLY REALLY REALLY couldnt tell the difference between the 2?

Is there something wrong with everyone's monitor or something?
You say there is no difference, yet what is the difference I pointed out?
There is "no side" to my "argument" atm I have no interest in sides, I only have interest in pointing out the difference.

So its the difference that shows metal and FC are different.
And its the difference that shows why metal is better ( well atleast even in this picture )

LunaHound wrote:
Is there something wrong with everyone's monitor or something?
You say there is no difference, yet what is the difference I pointed out?
There is "no side" to my "argument" atm I have no interest in sides, I only have interest in pointing out the difference.

So its the difference that shows metal and FC are different.
And its the difference that shows why metal is better ( well atleast even in this picture )

Hey, my point was simply that I think they are close enough to make it of no consequence at all, but if you genuinelly can see large differences then we shall agree to disagree, I don't have your eyeballs.

I must be getting old...

mattyrm wrote:

I must be getting old...

-_- dont say that..... Im going to paint more on it, just make sure when i upload it , you magnify it atleast 200% ( so atleast we are seeing the samething )

Also, you really should have the original picture also at 200% as a reference, so you can see it without my distraction arrows as well

I love how we argued over whether part of a model looked like a sandwich. Truly we have evolved as a people.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love how we argued over whether part of a model looked like a sandwich. Truly we have evolved as a people.

gak, since I started using this website I have arrived at the startling realisation that we can argue about almost anything.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love how we argued over whether part of a model looked like a sandwich. Truly we have evolved as a people.

Are you making fun of me??!

anyways, have both my version + original version side by side, both at 200%.... ( PS there is a chance dakka resize it, right click view image for full size )
cant miss the details now
Also, there is no point saying which is better according to this pic, for all we know I could be wrong about which side is what material.
The only thing that is not wrong is the difference been pointed out.

It looks like you should be wearing 3D glasses to view it.

On a sandwich related note, because some red crosses the green above the axe, I thought it said ..

"SALAD TO THE VERY EDGE"

mattyrm wrote: "SALAD TO THE VERY EDGE"

I bet GW are going to rename "Blood Red" to "Tomato Red" now... I dread to think about the problems this will cause when armies of people who pronounce tomato differently to one another get online...

F your salad you two....

you guys are so mean letting my efforts ( and talent ) go to waste....

It's not that hard to read if you can focus on specific colours.

I like how the right is leaning forward as if charging, but the left looks undecided but his legs want to anyway.

I...I...I see the sandwich!

Also I agree with n0t_u, but whether it was fail posed like that intentionally for this comparison, I do not know.

I can't see any real difference between those models.

Finecast warning, to finecast hate, to whiteknight bashing, to sandwich bashng...
This thread really has gone OT.

Luna wins +1 internetz for comedy captions (but now I want both a banana and a sammich).

I don't think there's *enough* difference between the two that I really care about either one having a finer level of detail.

But, I do care about having to return models (my nearest GW store is a half-hour drive + £2 parking fee -- not enormously far, but I don't fancy having to do that three or four times to get a decent sculpt). And I certainly care about time taken to fix faults. I don't really enjoy pinning metal models. I REALLY don't enjoy fixing a problem on any models (i.e. Finecast). I do quite enjoy sculpting. So, on balance, my preferences for new GW character figures are:

1) Convert existing plastic pieces, using Green Stuff if need be to add more, personalised detail.

2) Buy second-hand metal on eBay.

3) There is no (3). Why take the time fixing someone else's poor work (FC) when I could be creating my own for the same amount of effort? Not gonna happen.

Its also easier to strip paint off metal than resin.

The value for used model just depreciated for FC.
so smart GW!

Sort of is actually in a way. I mean the less times you can resell it the less they lose out on those resales.


*Goes jumps in a fire*

n0t_u wrote:Sort of is actually in a way. I mean the less times you can resell it the less they lose out on those resales.


*Goes jumps in a fire*

*meow, hops along

Luna, why didn't you point out any of the miscast problems on his legs or the gap where the axehead was placed? The finecast one has poor edges and textures on the legs and feet.

Holy hell. I walk away for a night, and look what happens in this thread!

Luna, +100 internets to you for the picture. -200 internets, however, since I had to clean coffee out of my laptop's keyboard.

Anyway, as to the original picture - to those of who you said that the Finecast was on the left, congratulations! You're correct!

On that note, I find it hilarious that the reason why people could pick out the FC model by, basically, its flaws.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

Given some of the tests here on dakka, not really.

You have to be careful with FW models (any other resin for that matter) as well. FC models at least have some give to them. FW models break a lot easier. Also resin is lighter so is less prone to breakage if dropped. I've dropped my Huron model twice and it just bounced. Metal would have broken all over the place.

Depends on the glue you use. I've used zzap gap and sometimes no they dont break at all. If your using that crappy GW glue its not going to hold.

I also dont have to worry about warpage from pressure, as shown around here as you can with fincast.

I meant the production of them improves over time, not the life of the models themselves. I know mine will be in my case safe and sound.

Unless they deteriorate. No one knows in 10-20 years what will happen as they do metal.

They have had a year, with new models. No improvement as of yet. How much more time do they need?

That's not what I said. Please try and read my posts. There is a sacrifice between mass produced models and higher quality models. Like Forgeworld models. More expensive, more work, more delicate but more detail. Like with historicals. There are a ton of aftermarket add-on parts you can put on a standard kit to make it more realistic. Most of these are harder to work with and require more care than the typical straight out of the box mass-produced kit.

No there isnt. Look at the plastic range. You cant possibly be saying because of mass production you dont get a good high quality.

Fine cast is NOT higher quality as of yet. IF and thats a big if, you can get a perfect model like you could in metal its good. But they cant or wont do so as of yet.

mattyrm wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love how we argued over whether part of a model looked like a sandwich. Truly we have evolved as a people.

gak, since I started using this website I have arrived at the startling realisation that we can argue about almost anything.

No we can't! STFU!

I don't have an issue with either space wolf being shown here. They look very similar. The only thing that would take any time to fix is the sole of his right show (Stage Left). And that would be hidden by the sand flocking I use, anyway.

However, I have seen some very crappy Finecast in person and with my friends models. I really hope this "phantom email" the original poster is talking about is true and it leads to improved QC.

LunaHound wrote:

I am me,......

You had me at "I am me".

I think MATTRYM has been unfairly railed against for being objective, I have put this up in a previous thread, so can everyone drop the partisan polar, "you are an idiot because it's called failcast for a reason" type responses.

LunaHound, I applaud your use of side by side pictures, but 2-D image can never give a good enough representation of the miniature without looking at them "In the flesh". I can see some points, others are inconsequential like the Concave inside Fist of the Stormbolter.

Deathshead420 wrote:They need to do the right thing and do a freakin recall.

Finally some one said it. If GW doesn't itself see improvements then we may just see that happen. Or they do an about turn and change the whole process. This has been really poorly done but well handled.
As all polically minded people GW knows how to tip toe around the problem. That is impressive but not what we want to see, we want to see action to rectify finecast.

mwnciboo wrote:hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

So people who disagree with what GW does are terrorists now?

I assume that no e-mail or letter has actually surfaced. This is not surprising, as such a document could be incredibly damaging. From my understanding it could be used to prosecute GW for fraud.

It is my belief that GW is indeed acting fraudulently in regard to selling Finecast. They know that an unacceptably high percentage of Finecast minis are defective and yet still continue to sell them.

I have a question for the lawyers on the forum. Does GW offering a replacement or refund protect GW from a suit involving the sale of Finecast? I would think that it would not, as they are still trying to sell defective merchandise.

It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please? I applaud GW for sticking with a product through some issues but I do believe they know the problem exists and will fix it shortly or go back to pewter.

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Ouze wrote:

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Mwnciboo called people who disagree with GW terrorists.

Tresson wrote:

Ouze wrote:

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Mwnciboo called people who disagree with GW terrorists.

No, actually he did not. You took his statement and twisted it.

mwnciboo wrote:hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

His statement likened the dissenters to "certain fundamentalist terrorist groups".

YOU made the leap to "People who disagree with GW are terrorists".
Arguments and debates commonly use a technique called "comparisons". When you compare X and Y, it does not necessarily mean that X is equal to Y.

I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Kanluwen wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Citation on this please and if so to what customer base are you referring too? GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless. Do you have the numbers of actual sells that you have stated and of so please share. Very curious on this.

Kanluwen wrote:In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Sure - they may sell some kits (after all they are one of the world's largest/most visible tabletop game manufacturers) but it doesn't mean they can completely ignore QC/etc, etc... I'm looking forward to seeing their next financial statement to see if/just how down their sales are on last year.

I don't know about you, but I'd be ashamed if some of the stuff people have posted pictures of was leaving my factory at all, let alone in quantities of anything approaching what we have seen. Hell, I would be kicking ass and taking names to ensure that my production processes were not churning out such huge quantities of substantially below standard product (and I think that we can all agree that if you are marketing your stuff as "the best product since women were invented" you should actually be producing some pretty damn high quality stuff) and until the process was fixed, I'd have every spare man on the pumps ensuring that every single sprue that was coming off the end of the line was checked and anything unacceptable was pulled.

Kanluwen wrote:In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

And not a single one of those kits was Finecast.

Adam LongWalker wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Citation on this please and if so to what customer base are you referring too? GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless. Do you have the numbers of actual sells that you have stated and of so please share. Very curious on this.

Since when do we cite sources here on Dakka?

By the way, you pretty much made my point for me with "GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless".
The "hardcore" are the ones who also come online and loudly shout for all to hear that they are "boycotting GW!". Nobody else actually cares what they do or don't do.

SilverMk2 wrote:
Sure - they may sell some kits (after all they are one of the world's largest/most visible tabletop game manufacturers) but it doesn't mean they can completely ignore QC/etc, etc... I'm looking forward to seeing their next financial statement to see if/just how down their sales are on last year.

I don't know about you, but I'd be ashamed if some of the stuff people have posted pictures of was leaving my factory at all, let alone in quantities of anything approaching what we have seen. Hell, I would be kicking ass and taking names to ensure that my production processes were not churning out such huge quantities of substantially below standard product (and I think that we can all agree that if you are marketing your stuff as "the best product since women were invented" you should actually be producing some pretty damn high quality stuff) and until the process was fixed, I'd have every spare man on the pumps ensuring that every single sprue that was coming off the end of the line was checked and anything unacceptable was pulled.

No, you're absolutely right that this is unacceptable. But the fact is...people are still buying it.

GW's going to see it as a win either way. Never mind that there's no metal alternatives readily available at the moment, but still...logic isn't their strong suit.
By the way:
Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

As an interesting aside I wonder if the hive tyrant kit sold well due to the extra goodies in it or because it was plastic as opposed to the previous finecast effort and people had put of buying it when it was finecast.

Kanluwen wrote:Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

Satirical paraphrasing of the GW release statements.

For example:

GW Finecast pre-release article wrote:There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

From here.

Emphasis mine - and it is probably because most other companies have some form of QC and robust production techniques

SilverMK2 wrote:

GW Finecast pre-release article wrote:There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

To be fair this statement is correct.

There are no other miniatures produced so badly, in such a unique material and on a grand scale, like finecast is.. I'm sure 'proud' and 'excited' are typos for 'ashamed' and 'nervous'.

Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

But like I said...it's unacceptable either way.

Kanluwen wrote:Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

Really? I'm sure that there are quite a lot of resin aircraft/tank/boat/spaceship models out there, often with tens of or even hundreds of parts in each kit. They may not all come from the same manufacturer but there are certainly a few companies out there that turn out great numbers of these products each year without too much of a problem when it comes to their kits being flawed.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

Really? I'm sure that there are quite a lot of resin aircraft/tank/boat/spaceship models out there, often with tens of or even hundreds of parts in each kit. They may not all come from the same manufacturer but there are certainly a few companies out there that turn out great numbers of these products each year without too much of a problem when it comes to their kits being flawed.

I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

I'm not going to argue as I don't have the facts and figures on kits, production numbers, sales, etc. But I'd say that being a "world leader" in production numbers for resin kits doesn't exactly reduce the onus on GW to stop releasing gak models, in fact I would suggest they should get themselves together and stop making excuses.

Ford is a world leader in car manufacturing, but if they release a car which arrived in the showrooms with holes through the bodywork and with half the internal parts misaligned and/or missing you sure as hell would not hear people going "Hey, you know what guys? They release a lot of cars so lets cut them some slack and maybe pay them some more money so we can buy replacement parts to fix the car we just bought from them!"...

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

I'm not going to argue as I don't have the facts and figures on kits, production numbers, sales, etc. But I'd say that being a "world leader" in production numbers for resin kits doesn't exactly reduce the onus on GW to stop releasing gak models, in fact I would suggest they should get themselves together and stop making excuses.

The difference is that GW is--for all intents and purposes--"new" to the game for resin casting. They tried to bull their way through, and failed miserably at it.

Ford is a world leader in car manufacturing, but if they release a car which arrived in the showrooms with holes through the bodywork and with half the internal parts misaligned and/or missing you sure as hell would not hear people going "Hey, you know what guys? They release a lot of cars so lets cut them some slack and maybe pay them some more money so we can buy replacement parts to fix the car we just bought from them!"...

The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Kanluwen wrote:The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Ok then, LG bring out a new TV which doesn't work half the time, can only get the "living" channel and has dead pixels taking up most of the screen. No one is going to die from a TV - happy now?

Whatever the product, in whatever the field, no company should be turning out product that either doesn't work, isn't up to standard, or doesn't perform as advertised.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Nothing fallacious about it - GW are turning out gak and charging as if each one was hand sculpted by Leonardo Da Vinci out of gold and blessed by the pope. In any other industry, with any other product they would have been royally torn a new one if they had put out such a poor quality product. Hell, in any other industry they probably would have taken one look at the first production runs and taken it back to the drawing board until they had something that gave them an acceptable product because it possibly would have finished them as a business.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Ok then, LG bring out a new TV which doesn't work half the time, can only get the "living" channel and has dead pixels taking up most of the screen. No one is going to die from a TV - happy now?

Yes, I am.

Whatever the product, in whatever the field, no company should be turning out product that either doesn't work, isn't up to standard, or doesn't perform as advertised.

No real argument with you on that.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Nothing fallacious about it - GW are turning out gak and charging as if each one was hand sculpted by Leonardo Da Vinci out of gold and blessed by the pope. In any other industry, with any other product they would have been royally torn a new one if they had put out such a poor quality product. Hell, in any other industry they probably would have taken one look at the first production runs and taken it back to the drawing board until they had something that gave them an acceptable product because it possibly would have finished them as a business.

You overestimate "any other industry".

Companies have been--and will continue--to do this kind of garbage until they're called to answer for it or until it becomes financially untenable.

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

Alpharius wrote:

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

And come with an optional gold-plated version, mayhaps?

Surtur wrote:Luna, why didn't you point out any of the miscast problems on his legs or the gap where the axehead was placed? The finecast one has poor edges and textures on the legs and feet.

I did, I put "lol" on that because it doesnt need me to point that out :3

^^ awww you 2 so cute!

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

And come with an optional gold-plated version, mayhaps?

Still wish I had my GP Eldar Avatar =o[

oh ya OT umm, FC still sucks. I do hope this sinks the GW ship, lord knows they deserve it.

Since when do we cite sources here on Dakka?
Kanluwen wrote:

By the way, you pretty much made my point for me with "GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless".
The "hardcore" are the ones who also come online and loudly shout for all to hear that they are "boycotting GW!". Nobody else actually cares what they do or don't do.

Seems like this is the ordinary thing to do when making comments that seemed to be unable to back up. Talk the big talk if you can but back it up with actual data. Many of us do make at least the attempt to providing data for discussion to back up what has been stated.

Something like a Url to a site or information or marketing data of some sort will help you in your comment.

If not then eh it seems that those people whom are against you are right. All talk. No facts.


Back to Finecast.
Finecast. It is something that I believe that GW is still trying to get their formula right. Until then it is going to be miscasts and GW will replace them.

Either way the company profits from it.

Adam LongWalker wrote:

Since when do we cite sources here on Dakka?
Kanluwen wrote:

By the way, you pretty much made my point for me with "GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless".
The "hardcore" are the ones who also come online and loudly shout for all to hear that they are "boycotting GW!". Nobody else actually cares what they do or don't do.

Seems like this is the ordinary thing to do when making comments that seemed to be unable to back up. Talk the big talk if you can but back it up with actual data. Many of us do make at least the attempt to providing data for discussion to back up what has been stated.

I'm calling bull on this statement.

The only time we really see individuals "cite their source" is when they have the site already pulled up or have seen someone else do all the work for them and they have a handy-dandy bookmark of it.

Something like a Url to a site or information or marketing data of some sort will help you in your comment.

And quite often, those URLs have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

If not then eh it seems that those people whom are against you are right. All talk. No facts.

Yes, clearly--despite them proving no evidence either?

I think you are mistaking Dakka with an academic paper.

Kanluwen wrote:The only time we really see individuals "cite their source" is when they have the site already pulled up or have seen someone else do all the work for them and they have a handy-dandy bookmark of it...... And quite often, those URLs have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Heeeey! You asked me for a source earlier and I went and searched for one that was relevant to the topic

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The only time we really see individuals "cite their source" is when they have the site already pulled up or have seen someone else do all the work for them and they have a handy-dandy bookmark of it...... And quite often, those URLs have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Heeeey! You asked me for a source earlier and I went and searched for one that was relevant to the topic

Yeah, but you did that to make me look ridiculous Silver. You don't count.

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but you did that to make me look ridiculous Silver. You don't count.

And I suppose making you look ridiculous is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel... with a nuke...

Yeah, well at least I don't crash tanks into buildings Silver!

Moving back to the topic though...
I wonder how long it will take for them to get their house in order?

That's a good question. Personally I think if GW wanted to truly fix the issues, they would have done so by now. Given Finecast was initially developed as a cost cutting measure, GW are probably looking for a fix to the finecast issues that has minimal financial impact. I’m basing this given that GW’s existing actions have all been consumer side, low financial impact measures:

• Lowered company standards of ‘acceptable’ casts.
• Creation of liquid greenstuff/finecast repair kits (alongside a push to get consumer to fix miscasts)
• Implementation of unboxing/checking finecast store policy.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

Satirical paraphrasing of the GW release statements.

For example:

GW Finecast pre-release article wrote:There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

From here.

Emphasis mine - and it is probably because most other companies have some form of QC and robust production techniques

And that statement is quite true. No body turns out rubbish like that in 28 mil heroic scale.

I think this is more miss leading "Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen. - Citadel Finecast.

By the way anyone notice the wolf heads look like sheep heads?.

loki old fart wrote: I think this is more miss leading "Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen. - Citadel Finecast.

Those miniatures are among the finest quality the world has ever seen. It's the resin copies up for sale that are having all the problems.

Breotan wrote:

loki old fart wrote: I think this is more miss leading "Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen. - Citadel Finecast.

Those miniatures are among the finest quality the world has ever seen. It's the resin copies up for sale that are having all the problems.

I find it really sad when the knock-off's are higher quality then the origional product. =o[

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I find it really sad when the knock-off's are higher quality then the origional product. =o[

I wonder how many times those Chinese recasters had to return their product in order to get a workable-enough model to replicate.

Absolutionis wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I find it really sad when the knock-off's are higher quality then the origional product. =o[

I wonder how many times those Chinese recasters had to return their product in order to get a workable-enough model to replicate.

=o] words for the word god

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:I find it really sad when the knock-off's are higher quality then the origional product. =o[

It just means that the re-casters are more interested in making a good quality copy than GW is at making a good quality original.

Bought an Eldar Avatar in Finecast... one foot was missing and I had to convert the whole sword because it was messed up beyond repair.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

It just means that the re-casters are more interested in making a good quality copy than GW is at making a good quality original.

Ha! That thought entertains me. Soon the only way to tell if a model is hooky is if it is of higher quality than the official stuff.

Absolutionis wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I find it really sad when the knock-off's are higher quality then the origional product. =o[

I wonder how many times those Chinese recasters had to return their product in order to get a workable-enough model to replicate.

Bad Absolutionis! BAD! You are not supposed to actually make me burst out laughing in the middle of my open space office! Now people are looking at me funny!

Kanluwen wrote:By the way:
Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

Edit: Doh. I must remember to read to the end of the thread before replying..

http://lyris.games-workshop.com/t/80298/7209755/4545/0/

Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast.

Wow, that's quite a statement isn't it? Nonetheless, it is very true. On the 28th of May we launch Citadel Finecast, miniatures of such exquisite detail that they are the closest representation of the sculptors' original that we have ever been able to make. Until you hold one in your hand and see it for yourself, it's hard to describe just how detailed they are.

Aspiring Champion wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:By the way:
Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

Edit: Doh. I must remember to read to the end of the thread before replying..

http://lyris.games-workshop.com/t/80298/7209755/4545/0/

Andy Hall: Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast.

Wow, that's quite a statement isn't it? Nonetheless, it is very true. On the 28th of May we launch Citadel Finecast, miniatures of such exquisite detail that they are the closest representation of the sculptors' original that we have ever been able to make. Until you hold one in your hand and see it for yourself, it's hard to describe just how detailed they are.

But just a few lines below, this is written:

Citadel Finecast is the next step in that process. There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world

I think they mean scale as in volume, not 28 mm, so that particular statement could very well be correct.

Inanimate wrote:
But just a few lines below, this is written:

Citadel Finecast is the next step in that process. There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world

I think they mean scale as in volume, not 28 mm, so that particular statement could very well be correct.

Except that its not because as it has been proven in this very thread, Failcrap detail level and their previous metal minis detail level are so similar that for all intents and purposes they are undistinguishable...

A friend of mine just bought a bunch of the Eldar Aspect Warriors in Finecast and they are pretty terrible. Tabards that aren't fully formed on Banshees, bent swords, bubbles and gaps on Firedragons. He is not pleased and I don't think he'll be buying more than what he's already got.

Seeing the problems that Finecrap has had, I will never purchase a figure made from this substandard material. Fortunantly I play Necrons and can make what I need from the plastic kits available, using the Lychguard box set for my Royal Courts. If, however, there are models in the second wave that are in Finecrap (those being the IC's), I will be making them out of the plastic kits or not using them at all.

Zathras wrote:Seeing the problems that Finecrap has had, I will never purchase...

Everything after this point in your post got tossed into the tl/dr pile. But please, don't let that stop you from hopping on the bandwagon.

Zathras wrote:I will never purchase a figure made from this substandard material.

Technically most of the problems aren't from the material itself, it's how the models are being cast that's causing all these problems.

Breotan wrote:But please, don't let that stop you from hopping on the bandwagon.

Is it possible to not like Finecast and decide you're not going to buy it without "hopping on the bandwagon"? Somehow I don't think it is...