Hunterindarkness wrote:I have not read the novels you guys are talking about. ALl I have to go on is published game books, Both GW and FFG's books. Both mark them clearly as Nuns. The Novels seem to fly in the face of the common portrayal of the SoB and most likely the "In correct" version of them as it does a 360 to every other published material about them.

All in all classic GW not controlling the setting.

The BL novels show that sisters are not celibate, the GW canon does not contradict this. I would argue that it's pretty straightforward to show that

Kaldor wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:Face facts, completely unprotected sisters were resisting the effects of the Bloodtide.

IF that were the case, and I'm not conceding it is, it still changes nothing. The Bloodtide was dangerous, regardless of some Sisters proving resistant or simply being lucky.

If the only way to defend a piece of fluff is just 'We don't know' then it's not a very good piece of fluff.

If the piece of fluff went in depth and covered every reason why it had to happen like that, it would be a bad piece of fluff, although it would apparently make you happier. Any of your 'problems' can be answered with reasonable assumptions on the part of the reader, nothing is too 'out there' about it

You have a laughably low level of what constitutes a reasonable assumption.

I can see that you aren't offering up any other tangible argument beyond 'just go with it', so I'll probably just leave you and continue to discuss this with other posters.

Omegus wrote:
You made a claim that GK are immune to the effects of the Warp. You are wrong, there are multiple instances where Warp powers overwhelm their aegis.

You are assuming that their resistance is passive and requires no further input from them. You are wrong. Going as far back as the Dark Millennium sourcebook, their lives have been ones of ritual and precaution, and it's these precautions that have safeguarded them from succumbing to possession or the temptations of Chaos.

And your question is frankly irrelevant. No, it hasn't happened before. The closest thing we have to that is Alaric's brief stint as a berserker gladiator. And now we have the possible threat of that happening with the Bloodtide. But again, the reason it has never happened before, is because the Grey Knights always take every precaution. They carry a Cliff's Notes copy of the best tips and tricks from their daemon library for a reason.

Exactly so, either the Grey Knights would be immune to it's effects, or they would have taken every precaution. Therefore an ad hoc solution against a age old enemy makes no sense. Surely if the solution was so simple (and obvious to the Grey Knights) they would have had already prepared for it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry I've taken so long to get back to you, Hunterindarkness.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:
I said there isn't much evidence to suggest that they can be forcibly turned, as in forced to attack their fellows.

Here there is however evidence that it Could happen. Page .7, states that a strong enough warp entity could indeed overcome a Grey Knights mind.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Does the Codex really refer to those affected as Blood Ogres? If anyone has the GK codex on hand, I'd appreciate a quote. This definitely implies that the affected are so warped beyond recognition that it's a physical effect rather than a mental influence.

Ah no sorry, seems I misquoted that name..it said "Orgies of Gore" not Ogres. It does talk about Bloodletters and implies the Goreshed does the physical transforming, not the tide itself. As that is what the GK needed to wade though. To me the fact It pointed out the goreshed corrupted places and objects seems to be the big damning point about it being psychical in nature.

An interesting thought is, at what point is a body or mind so deteriorated that it is no longer protected by mental training? It is not covered in the book or anything, just a thought this has brought up.We have things now that totally corrupt the mind, taking away skills and memory and motor control. What if, just theory now the Goreshed shattered the victims minds and left them more or less wide open to either possession or mind control on top of psychical changes?

I guess there is a point where the mind is simply so broken that mental training and protection is broken along with it. I'm not sure whether the patently insane are anymore susceptible to the predations of the warp than the sane though.

I'm confused now, is it called the Bloodtide or the Goreshed? Is one a symptom or extension of the other?

well it does not say really the sisters resisted at all. Only a handful still lived. They were losing, they could be alive because they had not been "hit" yet. We simply do not know. also the Grey Knights were prepared, its just that perpetration called for "Innocent" blood. Its most likly like many things with chaos, that they need to see it and know what they had to deal with, they needed real details in order to bring the correct wards and rites to bare. The GK have libraries of occult lure, some even the vilest black stuff that normally would corrupt a soul for even reading it. It never says why it need there blood and why they had to die. It could have needed the last drops of a dying "Innocent"

All of which I would argue would be easily procured beforehand. There are other cases where Grey Knight weaponry has been blessed with the blood of innocents before battle. For the Grey Knights to be caught without any sort of adequate protection, especially when this protection has been utilised elsewhere in the Grey Knight arsenal and the nature of the enemy is known, doesn't really make all that much sense.

Now my theory is this whole fluff is not that bad, however it had one thought on the writers part but has been happened by GW's "No Sex Talk" stance. I think it required Virgin blood and was more then likely a dark rite or based off such a thing. Evil dark gods tend to like female virgin blood rites. Its just a rule, they are seen as more "Pure" then male virgins, symbols of purity and symbols are powerful things for craft work. I simply thing GW got squeamish and they left it very,very vague.

Well, as I've already said Sisters do not necessarily have to remain virgins. And female virgins in any case wouldn't exactly be hard to find elsewhere. If virgin blood was all that was required the necessity of turning on the sisters in this was the case is...well frankly unjustifiable rather than just shaky or poorly thought out.

Hazardous Harry wrote:I can see that you aren't offering up any other tangible argument beyond 'just go with it', so I'll probably just leave you and continue to discuss this with other posters.

Is this how you handle all your losing arguments?

Kaldor wrote:
Is this how you handle all your losing arguments?

Please, don't pretend your arguments are even half as convincing as these others.

The problem is that you keep calling everything irrelevant, rather than actually addressing the argument. Why should I continue to waste my time on you?

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:So... I heard about the myth that Matt Ward supposedly created Gray Knights that worship Khorne, and I tried to find the place in the codex where they were described, because I had been told that it was in the current codex. I could not find it, and after reading through almost all of it, gave up. Eventually, on 1d4chan, (I confirmed it from the codex) I came across an article about it; it was about a story that I had already read, but had not interpreted to mean that Gray Knights had been corrupted by Khorne.

What actually happens is that Gray Knights kill a temple full of uncorrupted Sisters of Battle to use their blood to shield them from corruption. Gray Knights have never been corrupted. Sisters of Battle have occasionally been corrupted. If the SoB were not corrupted, than the Gray Knights would definitely able to resist being able to be corrupted. Somewhere, someone interpreted this problem to mean that the Gray Knights had therefore been corrupted by Khorne. Now, the number of people who have actually told me and been telling other people that there are Gray Knights that worship Khorne in the 40k canon is ridiculous. I'm not nerd raging over it, but trying to debunk the myth that has led to it.

Please make sure that all replies are civilized.

Grey*
Grey*
Grey*
A thousand times Grey*!

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Kaldor wrote:
Is this how you handle all your losing arguments?

Please, don't pretend your arguments are even half as convincing as these others.

The problem is that you keep calling everything irrelevant, rather than actually addressing the argument. Why should I continue to waste my time on you?

No, the problem is your failure to grasp what the actual argument is.

You obsess over irrelevant details, and fail to understand why your own arguments, based on those details, simply don't stack up.

Maybe the Grey Knights needed fresh blood. Can you say they didn't? Can you say that needing fresh blood would be somehow unfitting for the setting? That it would be logically or internally inconsistent? Maybe they needed the blood of victims that had been exposed to, and resisted the bloodtide? Would that be unfitting, illogical or internally inconsistent?

No. And yet you continue to sit astride your high horse and demand citations for irrelevant details that, in your mind, would substantiate the story.

Any number of reasonable assumptions, assumptions that are logical, fitting for the setting and characters involved, assumptions that are logical and internally consistent, any number of assumptions can be made but you, now that you've drawn your line in the sand and are too proud to admit you were wrong, you deliberately choose illogical and poorly fitting assumptions. And then you take those preposterous assumptions and hold them up as examples of the texts failings. Assumptions like "They should be protected" or "They'd never need the blood in the first place" or "they should carry that specific ingredient with them at all times".

But, I thought you were bowing out of the discussion? No? Feel like you need the final say?

Kaldor wrote:
Maybe the Grey Knights needed fresh blood. Can you say they didn't? Can you say that needing fresh blood would be somehow unfitting for the setting? That it would be logically or internally inconsistent? Maybe they needed the blood of victims that had been exposed to, and resisted the bloodtide? Would that be unfitting, illogical or internally inconsistent?

Except that tech like stasis fields exists in 40k, so 'fresh' blood might actually be thousands of years old, and still fresh.

Of course, maybe they had to spill it themselves. But then, this leads to the unfortunate implication you are arguing against. Since that would mean that the blood had to flow, and the power involved might not care beyond that it did...

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kaldor wrote:
Maybe the Grey Knights needed fresh blood. Can you say they didn't? Can you say that needing fresh blood would be somehow unfitting for the setting? That it would be logically or internally inconsistent? Maybe they needed the blood of victims that had been exposed to, and resisted the bloodtide? Would that be unfitting, illogical or internally inconsistent?

Except that tech like stasis fields exists in 40k, so 'fresh' blood might actually be thousands of years old, and still fresh.

Of course, maybe they had to spill it themselves. But then, this leads to the unfortunate implication you are arguing against. Since that would mean that the blood had to flow, and the power involved might not care beyond that it did...

Using stasis fields for that seems like a real hassle when there are plenty of meat puppets walking around that you could just take it from. And what is this "unfortunate implication" you speak of? That GK used a dark rite which would normally be the purview of sorcerers and occultists? Okay, they did. So what?

Hazardous Harry wrote:

The BL novels show that sisters are not celibate, the GW canon does not contradict this. I would argue that it's pretty straightforward to show that

I have a question. Are they all written by the same guy? Or part of the same series or the same character? To me it contradicts implied fluff pretty heavily. bOth the written GW game fluff and the FFG fluff.

Hazardous Harry wrote:


I guess there is a point where the mind is simply so broken that mental training and protection is broken along with it. I'm not sure whether the patently insane are anymore susceptible to the predations of the warp than the sane though.

I'm confused now, is it called the Bloodtide or the Goreshed? Is one a symptom or extension of the other?

I would say the insane are far more susceptible as they have no true willpower. And without will power one is nothing but a puppet to the warp. From what we have it is the "Blood tide" but it seems the Goreshed is the physical "Wave" and a real object that Psychically corrupts whatever it touches.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
All of which I would argue would be easily procured beforehand. There are other cases where Grey Knight weaponry has been blessed with the blood of innocents before battle. For the Grey Knights to be caught without any sort of adequate protection, especially when this protection has been utilised elsewhere in the Grey Knight arsenal and the nature of the enemy is known, doesn't really make all that much sense.

I would diagree, you simply can not take everything you think you might ever need with you. And killing folks then and there because of a dire need is not the same as killing folks for a "I might need this in 50 years or something". They did not know what they were dealing with, they show up see what it is comb though the tombs of dark knowledge they have or from memory and go " Oh we need some virgin blood" and look around and say hey, the SoB are still alive.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Well, as I've already said Sisters do not necessarily have to remain virgins. And female virgins in any case wouldn't exactly be hard to find elsewhere. If virgin blood was all that was required the necessity of turning on the sisters in this was the case is...well frankly unjustifiable rather than just shaky or poorly thought out.

You have said this before, except outside of some BL books every other writer at GW acts as if they are virgins. They treat them as Space Nuns. The BL stuff honestly is the odd man out

The only BL novels that show Sisters getting into some hanky-panky are the Caiphus Cain novels, which are basically 40k satire. They are not the strongest source.

Omegus wrote:The only BL novels that show Sisters getting into some hanky-panky are the Caiphus Cain novels, which are basically 40k satire. They are not the strongest source.

so pretty much one series from one guy type of deal?

Edit: I look it u, they are by the same person, seem to be satire and more or less does a 360 on EVERTHING else I can find published about the sisters. Yep Gonna hold that ones as the odd man out and the one that does not fit.

Hazardous Harry wrote:


I guess there is a point where the mind is simply so broken that mental training and protection is broken along with it. I'm not sure whether the patently insane are anymore susceptible to the predations of the warp than the sane though.

I'm confused now, is it called the Bloodtide or the Goreshed? Is one a symptom or extension of the other?

I would say the insane are far more susceptible as they have no true willpower. And without will power one is nothing but a puppet to the warp.

Well there would be two ways about that. You might have the sanity of a broken wreck, which would go with what you're saying. Or you could have the insanity of a Penal Legionnaire, which is of a different (and far more mentally unbreakable) sort of crazy.
I'm guessing by this you mean the Goreshed went the broken wreck path.

From what we have it is the "Blood tide" but it seems the Goreshed is the physical "Wave" and a real object that Psychically corrupts whatever it touches.

Does it mention whether it corrupted everything, and the surviving sisters hadn't been touched yet? Or had it touched everything but those sisters were for some reason resisting?

Hazardous Harry wrote:
All of which I would argue would be easily procured beforehand. There are other cases where Grey Knight weaponry has been blessed with the blood of innocents before battle. For the Grey Knights to be caught without any sort of adequate protection, especially when this protection has been utilised elsewhere in the Grey Knight arsenal and the nature of the enemy is known, doesn't really make all that much sense.

I would diagree, you simply can not take everything you think you might ever need with you. And killing folks then and there because of a dire need is not the same as killing folks for a "I might need this in 50 years or something". They did not know what they were dealing with, they show up see what it is comb though the tombs of dark knowledge they have or from memory and go " Oh we need some virgin blood" and look around and say hey, the SoB are still alive.

But that's exactly what the Grey Knights do in other cases. That's exactly what some of their weapons are annointed with, in order to combat certain threats. If this is standard practice, why was their approach with the Bloodtide so different and 'on-the-go'.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Well, as I've already said Sisters do not necessarily have to remain virgins. And female virgins in any case wouldn't exactly be hard to find elsewhere. If virgin blood was all that was required the necessity of turning on the sisters in this was the case is...well frankly unjustifiable rather than just shaky or poorly thought out.

You have said this before, except outside of some BL books every other writer at GW acts as if they are virgins. They treat them as Space Nuns. The BL stuff honestly is the odd man out

You can't equivocate Sisters of Battle and 12th century Catholic nuns. There are a lot of similarities, but there are also many, many differences. I'd also point out that not every convent had celibacy as a strict requirement, much like some priests were allowed to marry. Nowhere in BL that feature SoB (Faith and Fire being the most obvious) is the matter of celibacy or virginity even mentioned. You can't claim then that they treat every Sister of Battle as if they are virgin.

To state that the SoB are just like nuns would be to say that the Space Marines are all like monks. Yes, there are a lot of similarities, but the similarities only go so far.

Omegus wrote:The only BL novels that show Sisters getting into some hanky-panky are the Caiphus Cain novels, which are basically 40k satire. They are not the strongest source.

It is the only source that comments one way or another on whether sisters are celibate or not. If there was actual GW fluff that disagreed, then I would agree that it would take precedence over the Caiphas Cain novel. But since this is not the case I see no reason why it should be discarded.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Does it mention whether it corrupted everything, and the surviving sisters hadn't been touched yet? Or had it touched everything but those sisters were for some reason resisting?

It never once says the sisters resisted. It did say it corrupted every person and object it touched. It goes on to say that most of the sisters were corrupted. Those small amount that have held out till the GK showed up got Knifed. so yes it states the goreshed corrupted both people and object by touch.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
But that's exactly what the Grey Knights do in other cases. That's exactly what some of their weapons are annointed with, in order to combat certain threats. If this is standard practice, why was their approach with the Bloodtide so different and 'on-the-go'.

Because the blood tide was not something one encounters all the time. It was something foul, deadly and corrupted by mere touch. Without knowing just what the rite called for we have no way to really know, however if they could have used what they had, there would have been no need for the sisters death. They however felth the deaths were needed, so...ya know.

Hazardous Harry wrote:


You can't equivocate Sisters of Battle and 12th century Catholic nuns. There are a lot of similarities, but there are also many, many differences. I'd also point out that not every convent had celibacy as a strict requirement, much like some priests were allowed to marry. Nowhere in BL that feature SoB (Faith and Fire being the most obvious) is the matter of celibacy or virginity even mentioned. You can't claim then that they treat every Sister of Battle as if they are virgin.

To state that the SoB are just like nuns would be to say that the Space Marines are all like monks. Yes, there are a lot of similarities, but the similarities only go so far.

Every single GW and FFG books treats them as chaste Nuns, the only place I have ever seen that does not would be those novels. As they use Nun names, use Convert, tend to act like nuns..its a safe bet they are in fact Nuns. GW went a long way toward making them come off as nuns.

Sorry Main I count BL stuff only after and if it does not contradict other data ( which means almost never). BL is a joke for setting canon. Bl often contradict other BL books, do not use GW canon at canon and more or every set of books is a brand new setting with that writers take upon the setting, often on very vaguely like anything GW has published. Those books make every single thing ever published about SoB be flat out false. They are the thing that does not fit, not every other thing published. One should never use BL to back anything they say up unless it backs up Game material that has been published.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:
But that's exactly what the Grey Knights do in other cases. That's exactly what some of their weapons are annointed with, in order to combat certain threats. If this is standard practice, why was their approach with the Bloodtide so different and 'on-the-go'.

Because the blood tide was not something one encounters all the time. It was something foul, deadly and corrupted by mere touch. Without knowing just what the rite called for we have no way to really know, however if they could have used what they had, there would have been no need for the sisters death. They however felth the deaths were needed, so...ya know.

Then how did they know that killing the sisters was the solution if the had no knowledge of the Bloodtide from beforehand?

Hazardous Harry wrote:


You can't equivocate Sisters of Battle and 12th century Catholic nuns. There are a lot of similarities, but there are also many, many differences. I'd also point out that not every convent had celibacy as a strict requirement, much like some priests were allowed to marry. Nowhere in BL that feature SoB (Faith and Fire being the most obvious) is the matter of celibacy or virginity even mentioned. You can't claim then that they treat every Sister of Battle as if they are virgin.

To state that the SoB are just like nuns would be to say that the Space Marines are all like monks. Yes, there are a lot of similarities, but the similarities only go so far.

Every single GW and FFG books treats them as chaste Nuns, the only place I have ever seen that does not would be those novels. As they use Nun names, use Convert, tend to act like nuns..its a safe bet they are in fact Nuns. GW went a long way toward making them come off as nuns.

Incorrect, there is no source that ever says that they are chaste. There is no source that implies it, becuase even if the Adepta Sororitas were equivocated to Nuns (And again they are only as similar to nuns as Astartes are to monks) vows of chasity were not universally applied in convents. Hell, nuns and priests could live together and raise families in convents and we see no evidence of that in the Adepta Sororitas.

So even if it's a safe bet to say that they're just like nuns (which I would say it's not) then you still can't really say that they are chaste with any sort of authority.

Sorry Main I count BL stuff only after and if it does not contradict other data ( which means almost never). BL is a joke for setting canon. Bl often contradict other BL books, do not use GW canon at canon and more or every set of books is a brand new setting with that writers take upon the setting, often on very vaguely like anything GW has published. Those books make every single thing ever published about SoB be flat out false. They are the thing that does not fit, not every other thing published. One should never use BL to back anything they say up unless it backs up Game material that has been published.

My argument isn't that BL fluff should trake precedence over GW authority in case of a conflict, it's that there is no conflict.

Then how did they know that killing the sisters was the solution if the had no knowledge of the Bloodtide from beforehand?

Hunterindarkness wrote:

That and the guy who wrote the GK entry seemed to think they were "innocent"

... He also has Necrons allying with Blood Angels and SM everywhere bowing down before the Ultramarines, and cursing their inadequacies for not having been Ultramarines themselves, except deviants like the Black Templars and wretched mutants like the Space Wolves, all doomed to extinction in the near future, for having turned their backs on the true SM ideal.

Can't tell what chapter he plays, huh?

Hunterindarkness wrote:
All we know for fact was the GK felt it was called for and did it.

Which might be enough for you to swallow that particular piece of fluff easily enough, I'm just a fair bit more critical with things that don't fit into their Modus Operandi.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Incorrect, there is no source that ever says that they are chaste. There is no source that implies it, becuase even if the Adepta Sororitas were equivocated to Nuns.

Yes Older fluff strongly implies this very thing and new fluff goes along with that. Sure its FFG fluff but it does indeed match the older stuff unlike the book you keep bringing up. That books simply does not match anything else I can find about SoB.

Where? Where does the older fluff imply this? I've read the old editions of the SoB codex, nothing that implies they have vows of chastity.

That and the guy who wrote the GK entry seemed to think they were "innocent"

So wait, just becuase you're a virgin you're innocent?

Please, read Faith and Fire. And the Witch Hunter Codex. They burn towns to the ground, men, women and children, to be 'on the safe side'. I hardly think bedroom antics make a difference when you're looking at how the Sisters normally operate.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
My argument isn't that BL fluff should trake precedence over GW authority in case of a conflict, it's that there is no conflict.

nah a total 360 on everything else ever written about soB isn't a conflict at all, na not a bit, no sir.

Except it doesn't.

You're going to have to provide these sources which strongly imply that all sisters take vows of celibacy, becuase I certainly haven't seen anything like that.

It comes down to this man. I will not use that set of novels as the athorutiy on sisters while ignoring everything else. You seem to use it as the bible and not the oddity it is. It simply puts a life to everything anyone else seems to have ever written about SoB. Making it useless as authority upon them.

I'm not using it as the gospel truth. I've already said that if there was any contradiction then the GW official fluff would take precedence. But since the GW fluff doesn't comment on this either way, the BL source is the only one that we really have anything concrete to go on.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

That and the guy who wrote the GK entry seemed to think they were "innocent"

... He also has Necrons allying with Blood Angels and SM everywhere bowing down before the Ultramarines, and cursing their inadequacies for not having been Ultramarines themselves, except deviants like the Black Templars and wretched mutants like the Space Wolves, all doomed to extinction in the near future, for having turned their backs on the true SM ideal.

Can't tell what chapter he plays, huh?

Ok lets cover this

Sm and Xenos allying is a pretty damned common. He also In charge of the Necron reboot and that pretty much fits in with both them and the DA as a whole.
Eh he toned down the UM from what i can tell, every Marine being and wishing to be an UM seems to have been around sense day 1.

I have not read those codexs but the Um fanboisum can't be laid at his feet.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

That and the guy who wrote the GK entry seemed to think they were "innocent"

... He also has Necrons allying with Blood Angels and SM everywhere bowing down before the Ultramarines, and cursing their inadequacies for not having been Ultramarines themselves, except deviants like the Black Templars and wretched mutants like the Space Wolves, all doomed to extinction in the near future, for having turned their backs on the true SM ideal.

Can't tell what chapter he plays, huh?

Necrons can ally with the Space Marines by their new codex. Since he wrote both of those entries, one can only assume he planned it. It's not all that horrible.

He started playing with Necrons by the way. And they only bow before Calgar.


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Hunterindarkness wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

That and the guy who wrote the GK entry seemed to think they were "innocent"

... He also has Necrons allying with Blood Angels and SM everywhere bowing down before the Ultramarines, and cursing their inadequacies for not having been Ultramarines themselves, except deviants like the Black Templars and wretched mutants like the Space Wolves, all doomed to extinction in the near future, for having turned their backs on the true SM ideal.

Can't tell what chapter he plays, huh?

Ok lets cover this

Sm and Xenos allying is a pretty damned common. He also In charge of the Necron reboot and that pretty much fits in with both them and the DA as a whole.
Eh he toned down the UM from what i can tell, every Marine being and wishing to be an UM seems to have been around sense day 1.

I have not read those codexs but the Um fanboisum can't be laid at his feet.

Yes it can actually. Read the interview he gave about the codex. The general consensus before him was that everyone did their own thing, but UM were probably the best. Now it's 'everyone exept the crazies do what the UMs do'.

Hazardous Harry wrote: I'm just a fair bit more critical with things that don't fit into their Modus Operandi.

Except it does. Like it or not that is pretty much right on target with both there and the Inquisitions MO.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Where? Where does the older fluff imply this? I've read the old editions of the SoB codex, nothing that implies they have vows of chastity.

I'll track down page numbers but as older fluff avoids words that even hinted at sex, nothing will fit your definition of "implication" no matter how much it fits.

Hazardous Harry wrote:
So wait, just becuase you're a virgin you're innocent?

if you do not know that definition, you both failed to comprehend the fluff and will never understand the argument. Yes "Innocent" means virgin, unspoiled,,untouched. The SoB only fit "innocent" in one and only one way.


Look man we are going in circles here. You will never except that the SoB might be chaste nuns. I will never Except they are the free wheeling swinging good time girls you think they are based off one set of BL novels.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:

Yes it can actually. Read the interview he gave about the codex. The general consensus before him was that everyone did their own thing, but UM were probably the best. Now it's 'everyone exept the crazies do what the UMs do'.

I'll take your word for it as I have zero plan to buy a codex I will never use. However from what I have read it seems more of the same. UM love has always been around, and if it is an UM book, it might be written from thier own point of view. Now if other SM Codex he writes state the same thing, then i say you are correct.

I just get a Bit tired of the Matt Ward hate, its often over blown and uncalled for and often shy on things like facts.

Durza wrote:And they only bow before Calgar.

Come to Me, Sons of Terra! KNEEL BEFORE CALGAR!
(I'd like to thank GW for casting Terrance Stamp as an Ultramarine in that movie and making this joke possible.)

Why does he have such a tiny head?

He doesn't have a tiny head, he's got BIG pauldrons

No, he has a really, really, really Tiny head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcephaly Its no laughing matter guys

Edit: Realized you guys can't see me chuckling as I post this

Hunterindarkness wrote:No, he has a really, really, really Tiny head.

No, it' just his armor keeps getting bigger. Eventually he's going to be walking around in a dreadknight.

The bottom is his PA version.

Terminator armor is an upgrade for Papa Smurf.

I was making fun of the bad pic. The Minis looks much better, but the pic, while it could be cool is ruined by the undersized head.

They are not bred for thinking, that's why truescale Space Marines have a brain the size of their thumb

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Look man we are going in circles here. You will never except that the SoB might be chaste nuns. I will never Except they are the free wheeling swinging good time girls you think they are based off one set of BL novels.

i'm not saying that they're a randy bunch of sorority members, odds are sex and anything that would distract from the proper worship of the Emperor is frowned upon. I just don't see any evidence that it's forbidden.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Look man we are going in circles here. You will never except that the SoB might be chaste nuns. I will never Except they are the free wheeling swinging good time girls you think they are based off one set of BL novels.

i'm not saying that they're a randy bunch of sorority members, odds are sex and anything that would distract from the proper worship of the Emperor is frowned upon. I just don't see any evidence that it's forbidden.

Save your breath, you are not arguing with the fluff as written, you're both arguing with preconceptions. It's not a fight you can win. It's like arguing about God.

Yeah I am walking away from the chaste sister thing, He reads the fluff one way, I another.

I agree...


...to disagree.

Omegus wrote:The only BL novels that show Sisters getting into some hanky-panky are the Caiphus Cain novels, which are basically 40k satire. They are not the strongest source.

They may be lighthearted in terms of 40k novels, but they're pretty solid about fluff. Certainly moreso than some more "serious" works. That said, I remember it being explained either by Cain of Vail- there is sometimes a preception that they are chaste, but that is due to the constraints of a lifetime of dedicated service. They just don't have time for relationships and romance. The incident of romance occuring was with an older sororitas sent to train recruits. And it was with a fellow staff member, and clergyman. (Showing that celibacy doesn't extend to either gender.)

I think that's a pretty good middle-ground myself.

I looked up the 'chatelaines' thing and it is, sadly, NOT an FFG thing. It dates back to Codex: Sisters of Battle from 2nd ed. So this isn't an editorial gaff on FFG's part.