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Post by: sparkywtf
PhantomViper wrote:sparkywtf wrote:
To have something implemented in right away without any personal work, sure I will pay for it.
Define "work", please.
Is downloading a PDF = work to you?
Is getting a couple of stickers and putting them on top of your book = work?
sparkywtf wrote:
Army Builder charges (apparently) to have your software automatically update, where is your complaining about that? Oh wait it isn't GW so it must be okay. I am not saying they should charge for an FAQ, but if they want a buck to change my ibook instead of me having to open a PDF, it is worth the saved time to pay the dollar.
AFAIK, no, Army Builder doesn't charge you to update its sofware. AFAIK Army Builder only charged you when it went from version 2 to version 3, like every other software manufacturer in existence. Heck, like every other miniature game in existence charging you for a new version of their rules. Notice how I say AFAIK allot because I never actually got version 3 of AB since people still keep making the current 40K and Fantasy army lists for V2.2 so I never felt the need to pay for V3.x.
Charging you for a FAQ would be the same as a software company charging you for a patch that makes the software work...
And you would pay 1 dolar for a FAQ instead of downloading a PDF... Do you actually have a job or are you still in school? Don't mean to offend you but you seem to have a really poor understanding of the actual value of money, so you being in school and dependent of others for your income would explain that.
It isn't the work of downloading the PDF, it is referencing it while playing, which takes up enough time already just looking at the codex. And I can't put stickers on my ipad now can I?
As for Army Builder, I thought there was a yearly charge that does nothing up update datafiles for you or something, again no idea because I use battlescribe.
And I do have a job, one that pays me quiet well and I am in school. The actual value of say a dollar to update something essentially pays for itself. If it costs be a dollar and saves me an hour in the course of a year, well then it is pretty much a moot point. Everything has an opportunity cost, and sitting down with a codex or an ipad and making notes about changes is not one I want to do, as there is so many other better things I could be doing.
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Post by: biccat
Kroothawk wrote:I hope you are right. Wouldn't be surprised at all if GW makes iPads mandatory
They'll also release a Citadel iPad with a GW sticker on the front. Retails for 50% over the standard iPad, but it's available in GW stores!
sparkywtf wrote:Army Builder charges (apparently) to have your software automatically update, where is your complaining about that?
I think Army Builder is free to update if you buy the full version.
PhantomViper wrote:And you would pay 1 dolar for a FAQ instead of downloading a PDF... Do you actually have a job or are you still in school? Don't mean to offend you but you seem to have a really poor understanding of the actual value of money, so you being in school and dependent of others for your income would explain that.
That's pretty much the basis of the entire App market. Make an app and sell it on the online store for $1-2. Most people are willing to drop a buck or two on a program, since it's really not that much money.
The distribution cost is minimal, so a lot of that $1-2 goes directly to the publisher.
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Post by: Grot 6
If you buy this digital crack, I have some almost new CD's for GW's "Offichul" Army Builder programs i could throw at you for reference on how far this will last. 
Only dropped once.
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Post by: Kroothawk
biccat wrote:Kroothawk wrote:I hope you are right. Wouldn't be surprised at all if GW makes iPads mandatory
They'll also release a Citadel iPad with a GW sticker on the front. Retails for 50% over the standard iPad, but it's available in GW stores!
The CitadelPad has some imperfections in the screen, but you can fix that with a bottle of CitaFluid for only 10$ 
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Post by: PhantomViper
d-usa wrote:
What makes you think that they will drop support for their paper books just because they are also selling a digital version at the same time?
Never said that they would drop support. I was just trying to understand why sparkywtf was saying that he would prefer to pay for the privilege.
d-usa wrote:
Actually, Army Builder does charge you. You pay for a yearly license to get the automatic update. When that license expires you can either renew or update manually.
I stand corrected then, like I said I was using AFAIK allot because I never actually felt the need to stop using AB 2.2 (which doesn't have any of those yearly subscription shenanigans), so I never used AB 3.x. Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:And you would pay 1 dolar for a FAQ instead of downloading a PDF... Do you actually have a job or are you still in school? Don't mean to offend you but you seem to have a really poor understanding of the actual value of money, so you being in school and dependent of others for your income would explain that.
That's pretty much the basis of the entire App market. Make an app and sell it on the online store for $1-2. Most people are willing to drop a buck or two on a program, since it's really not that much money.
The distribution cost is minimal, so a lot of that $1-2 goes directly to the publisher.
A FAQ is not a program, its also not an App by any stretch of the imagination. The closest thing to a FAQ in the software world is a no-content, fix-only patch. And those are (almost) always free.
But hey, judging by the comments in this thread, allot of GW customers are happy to pay for things that other companies give for free, so there is another source of revenue for GW right there!
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Post by: Breotan
Army Builder has an annual subscription setup for automatic updates. If you're capable of doing all the work yourself, you can forgo this. I choose to subscribe as a way of supporting the people who worked on this product.
I'm interested in seeing how GW will handle the 6th Edition book. Depending on how well it is designed, the electronic version might well be better than the hardbound, even at the same price.
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Post by: d-usa
PhantomViper wrote:d-usa wrote:
What makes you think that they will drop support for their paper books just because they are also selling a digital version at the same time?
Never said that they would drop support. I was just trying to understand why sparkywtf was saying that he would prefer to pay for the privilege.
I assume he was talking about the price for the e-book. He doesn't mind paying that price if the e-book updates automatically.
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Post by: sparkywtf
PhantomViper wrote:d-usa wrote:
What makes you think that they will drop support for their paper books just because they are also selling a digital version at the same time?
Never said that they would drop support. I was just trying to understand why sparkywtf was saying that he would prefer to pay for the privilege.
I would prefer everything to be free and gum drops to rain from the sky.
But if there was a small fee to update the ibook, 1 or 2 dollars is exactly unreasonable for a one time cost. And it depends on what the addition is. If it is just to correct some spelling mistakes and some maybe a bad sentence, obviously it isn't worth it, but if it is a major change to a rule or addition of a unit, at least I don't have to buy a WD
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Post by: Ravenous D
After reading Yaks review the only thing that jumped out to me was "$9 more then the print version" and closed the window. What a bunch of  ing mother ers.
[Mod Edit - While that may be easier, it is also illegal. Please do not advocate this on Dakka Dakka.]
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Post by: d-usa
Ravenous D wrote:After reading Yaks review the only thing that jumped out to me was "$9 more then the print version" and closed the window. What a bunch of ing mother ers.
[Mod Edit - While that may be easier, it is also illegal. Please do not advocate this on Dakka Dakka.]
I think they are even in price now. GW price hike FTW
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Post by: PhantomViper
sparkywtf wrote:
I would prefer everything to be free and gum drops to rain from the sky.
But if there was a small fee to update the ibook, 1 or 2 dollars is exactly unreasonable for a one time cost. And it depends on what the addition is. If it is just to correct some spelling mistakes and some maybe a bad sentence, obviously it isn't worth it, but if it is a major change to a rule or addition of a unit, at least I don't have to buy a WD
Ah! Now we are talking about another thing entirely. New units aren't a FAQ, new units are actual new content and I reason most people wouldn't mind paying a small fee to have them automatically added to their codex (even though Infinity does it for free and PP plans on doing it for free in their new App as well ).
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Post by: spaceelf
Automatic updates would be one way for GW to kill old versions of their games. The ebook could be updated automatically and the old rules would disappear. I am sure that they would much rather charge you for a new book than simply update it. Maybe they will just replace the old book with a message that says buy the new one.
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Post by: Ravenous D
d-usa wrote:Ravenous D wrote:After reading Yaks review the only thing that jumped out to me was "$9 more then the print version" and closed the window. What a bunch of ing mother ers.
[Mod Edit - While that may be easier, it is also illegal. Please do not advocate this on Dakka Dakka.]
I think they are even in price now. GW price hike FTW
 Awesome...
Regardless though it doesnt need to go to a printer, it doesnt need to be shipped or take up space, its just some dude and server and we have to pay more? that, Im just waiting for GW to initiate Primae Noctis as the next step of building their evil empire.
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Post by: d-usa
Ravenous D wrote:d-usa wrote:Ravenous D wrote:After reading Yaks review the only thing that jumped out to me was "$9 more then the print version" and closed the window. What a bunch of ing mother ers.
[Mod Edit - While that may be easier, it is also illegal. Please do not advocate this on Dakka Dakka.]
I think they are even in price now. GW price hike FTW
Awesome...
Regardless though it doesnt need to go to a printer, it doesnt need to be shipped or take up space, its just some dude and server and we have to pay more? that, Im just waiting for GW to initiate Primae Noctis as the next step of building their evil empire.
But Apple takes their cut, for all we know that evil empire (the apple one) charges just as much for letting you use their iPad to sell this book as the guy doing the printing Does and a guy renting them a store  . Automatic implementation of FAQs into the text would be nice and it would be a 'small' step towards justifying the price just a little. Heck, even just including the FAQs as an addendum in the back would be nice.
The iPad will probably last longer than a physical book though, they do like to fall apart alot. What is the quality of the hardcover books like? I haven't had one of those yet, so I don't know.
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Post by: Nevelon
sparkywtf wrote:PhantomViper wrote:d-usa wrote:
What makes you think that they will drop support for their paper books just because they are also selling a digital version at the same time?
Never said that they would drop support. I was just trying to understand why sparkywtf was saying that he would prefer to pay for the privilege.
I would prefer everything to be free and gum drops to rain from the sky.
But if there was a small fee to update the ibook, 1 or 2 dollars is exactly unreasonable for a one time cost. And it depends on what the addition is. If it is just to correct some spelling mistakes and some maybe a bad sentence, obviously it isn't worth it, but if it is a major change to a rule or addition of a unit, at least I don't have to buy a WD
If it's FAQs, typos, etc. fixing the old stuff, I expect it to be free updates. If they are adding content, I'm good with paying a fee depending on how much more is added.
New units/characters should be in the buck or two range. If they do a add-on minidex thing like back in 3rd edition, where you would buy the Blood Angels codex (requiring the main marine codex to use) I could see that being a $5-10 upgrade.
So much depends on where they are going with this. It could be cool, or not. Time will tell. I don't have enough faith in GW to be an early adopter.
I have an iPad, and use it primarily for gaming. It was a gift from The Wife; I wouldn't have spent the money for it myself. But since I have it, I use it a lot. The 4-6 hardcover books and wads of papers in my gaming bag have been replaced with a slim tablet. I'm not as young as I used to be, and my shoulder appreciates the change. There is Wi-FI everywhere I go, so the internet with all of it's rules updates and information is at my fingertips. Once you get used to it, looking up rules is just as fast, if not faster. While I'm a big fan of paper (and still do my army lists on a yellow pad) you shouldn't underestimate the connivence of a tablet. And while the world if very polarized with a love/hate for Apple, they do make a fine piece of gear in the iPad.
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Post by: Ravenous D
d-usa wrote:
But Apple takes their cut, for all we know that evil empire (the apple one) charges just as much for letting you use their iPad to sell this book as the guy doing the printing Does and a guy renting them a store . Automatic implementation of FAQs into the text would be nice and it would be a 'small' step towards justifying the price just a little. Heck, even just including the FAQs as an addendum in the back would be nice.
The iPad will probably last longer than a physical book though, they do like to fall apart alot. What is the quality of the hardcover books like? I haven't had one of those yet, so I don't know.
I cant imagine it being that big of a cut. It smells of "its new so it should be more expensive" much like finecast, 1/10th the cost of material, 20%+ increase in cost to consumer. The point is that they've cut out the middle man entirely so it costing more is insane, finecast at least has the (bad) excuse for "its new tech we need to pay off for the hundreds of molds".
Time will tell, currently free PDFs are better ('CAUSE ITS FREE) and requires very little effort to update. $40+ for something untangible that is clunking and MIGHT get updated is simply insulting.
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Post by: PhantomViper
d-usa wrote:
But Apple takes their cut, for all we know that evil empire (the apple one) charges just as much for letting you use their iPad to sell this book as the guy doing the printing Does and a guy renting them a store . Automatic implementation of FAQs into the text would be nice and it would be a 'small' step towards justifying the price just a little. Heck, even just including the FAQs as an addendum in the back would be nice.
The iPad will probably last longer than a physical book though, they do like to fall apart alot. What is the quality of the hardcover books like? I haven't had one of those yet, so I don't know.
Well, one could argue that GW should / could have released this in an Android friendly format and as such bypass the Apple fees and reach a potential much wider audience at the same time.
Not that I have either an iPad or an Android Pad, my "big toys budget" was spent in two separate motorbikes in the last two years, if I showed up at home with a tablet the wife would toss it and me along with it out the window!
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Post by: biccat
Kroothawk wrote:biccat wrote:Kroothawk wrote:I hope you are right. Wouldn't be surprised at all if GW makes iPads mandatory
They'll also release a Citadel iPad with a GW sticker on the front. Retails for 50% over the standard iPad, but it's available in GW stores!
The CitadelPad has some imperfections in the screen, but you can fix that with a bottle of CitaFluid for only 10$
Have you tried soaking it in warm water?
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Post by: d-usa
Ravenous D wrote:d-usa wrote:
But Apple takes their cut, for all we know that evil empire (the apple one) charges just as much for letting you use their iPad to sell this book as the guy doing the printing Does and a guy renting them a store . Automatic implementation of FAQs into the text would be nice and it would be a 'small' step towards justifying the price just a little. Heck, even just including the FAQs as an addendum in the back would be nice.
The iPad will probably last longer than a physical book though, they do like to fall apart alot. What is the quality of the hardcover books like? I haven't had one of those yet, so I don't know.
I cant imagine it being that big of a cut. It smells of "its new so it should be more expensive" much like finecast, 1/10th the cost of material, 20%+ increase in cost to consumer. The point is that they've cut out the middle man entirely so it costing more is insane, finecast at least has the (bad) excuse for "its new tech we need to pay off for the hundreds of molds".
Time will tell, currently free PDFs are better ('CAUSE ITS FREE) and requires very little effort to update. $40+ for something untangible that is clunking and MIGHT get updated is simply insulting.
I honestly don't know how much the cut for Apple is. It would seem that it should not be a lot, but then it is Apple. Aren't they currently being investigated for price fixing?
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Post by: shasolenzabi
you shouldn't underestimate the connivence of a tablet
I like that typo, looked like your sub-conscious mind let slip it's feelings.
Basically, I do not andmany others do not have 400-800bucks to spend on Apple's over priced, practically slave built devices. Then if I have to crap out that much for some sort of support device that has it's conveniences, but it's downsides too! I can accidentally step on a codex in paper copy and the worst is a crimped cover, I do that to the i-pad and it is destroyed. I don't have to worry if I powered it, or dragged the power cable to hook it to the wall, and the other issue is whether or not the store has wifi, and whether or not they will charge me for access to that!
Now the hardcopy and some rule books I avoid making too heavy when I got the minirules from the starter box, and taking just enough paper for the lists. I agree with others, simple Pdfs could be easier all around, even an e-book the much cheaper Kindles could get,,oh wait, colored pics riiiight.
So, now the two most expensive purveyors for what they make and sell have teamed up, this ploy will get more sales of the i-pad going and this in turn opens a new avenue for GW to take, but if they go the route of their army lists that Army builder beat them on, then I am sure the Apple fans will still be happy with their pads.
GW should have gone a more universally applicable route for this concept, Only Apple users will have access to this product.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
PhantomViper wrote:d-usa wrote: But Apple takes their cut, for all we know that evil empire (the apple one) charges just as much for letting you use their iPad to sell this book as the guy doing the printing Does and a guy renting them a store . Automatic implementation of FAQs into the text would be nice and it would be a 'small' step towards justifying the price just a little. Heck, even just including the FAQs as an addendum in the back would be nice. The iPad will probably last longer than a physical book though, they do like to fall apart alot. What is the quality of the hardcover books like? I haven't had one of those yet, so I don't know.
Well, one could argue that GW should / could have released this in an Android friendly format and as such bypass the Apple fees and reach a potential much wider audience at the same time. Not that I have either an iPad or an Android Pad, my "big toys budget" was spent in two separate motorbikes in the last two years, if I showed up at home with a tablet the wife would toss it and me along with it out the window!
 What wider audience? Given OS fragmentation and even worse then that, hardware fragmentation I think they made the right choice. The Ebook format is hit or miss depending on device and to author a book for the entirety of a possible audience involves dumbing down features to make it accessible to the low end of the hardware spectrum. It's just not worth it considering Apples product is so ludicrously dominant that it basically is the tablet market. I take issue with their price, but the delivered product appears superior to the PDFs I have and I dislike having to bring hardcopy books with me everywhere.
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Post by: marv335
As I understand it, Apples cut is 30%.
I used to own an Android tablet.
Frankly the Android Market (Now Google Play) was so bad, and so awkward to use I only used free apps, and sold it to buy an iPad.
If a comparable program to iBooks2 (with similar security) comes out on Android, and Android sorts out the multi-os problem (some Apps will not work on all versions, Apple developers don't really need to worry about that) Then I can see GW going ahead with multi-platform.
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Post by: PhantomViper
ShumaGorath wrote:
What wider audience? Given OS fragmentation and even worse then that, hardware fragmentation I think they made the right choice. The Ebook format is hit or miss depending on device and to author a book for the entirety of a possible audience involves dumbing down features to make it accessible to the low end of the hardware spectrum. It's just not worth it considering Apples product is so ludicrously dominant that it basically is the tablet market. I take issue with their price, but the delivered product appears superior to the PDFs I have and I dislike having to bring hardcopy books with me everywhere.
Most Android apps are also compatible with the PC, meaning that it would be available to other consumers other than just tablet owners (or in this case, available only to iPad owners)...
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Post by: d-usa
One thing about the iPad is that every iPad is exactly the same dimensions as every other iPad.
Android devices have a screen size that could be anything. So it makes it harder to design something like an interactive eBook for that system.
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Post by: kirsanth
The other thing to keep in mind is "Android" does not require updates or consistency. Then there is the hardware variability, which can be even stranger.
Developing for iOS means you only have to deal a single OS version.
Android, preference aside, is a much more variable platform; even if the OS is the same, the capabilities may not be. This is both good and bad.
In cases like a first attempt at software it is bad for development. It is necessarily more complex to require compatibility with more than a single setup, especially when there is not a real standard for what hardware utilizes it.
If they do not do it eventually, it is a horrid mistake; but starting with Android (or worse, Android + iOS) could have been much worse and would have definitively been more costly - both in time and money.
editing to add:
d-usa succinctly ninja'd me!
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Post by: ShumaGorath
PhantomViper wrote:ShumaGorath wrote: What wider audience? Given OS fragmentation and even worse then that, hardware fragmentation I think they made the right choice. The Ebook format is hit or miss depending on device and to author a book for the entirety of a possible audience involves dumbing down features to make it accessible to the low end of the hardware spectrum. It's just not worth it considering Apples product is so ludicrously dominant that it basically is the tablet market. I take issue with their price, but the delivered product appears superior to the PDFs I have and I dislike having to bring hardcopy books with me everywhere.
Most Android apps are also compatible with the PC, meaning that it would be available to other consumers other than just tablet owners (or in this case, available only to iPad owners)...
The number of people who: 1. Own an android device 2. Are aware of that 3. Are actually capable of acting on that awareness 4. And use GW products Can probably be counted on my fingers and toes. Also, since when were the majority of android apps PC compatible without a developers kit or licence? Are you talking about the google play store? Having done mobile App development I can guarantee you that the majority of android apps developed with touch controls in mind are not particularly friendly to a mouse driven interface.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
-Loki- wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:kirsanth wrote:Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail
Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .
It IS GW after all.
Odds of them importing stuff to other platforms? Heh.
When's the last time you saw an Army Builder update that wasn't fan-made?
So Games Workshop are now being demonised over a completely separate companies product, Army Builder?
Only on Dakka. Some of you guys are pure class.
A company they pushed and promoted for god knows how long and then proceeded to ignore and neglect. Remember the Combat Card game they had a few years back? You know, the one that disappeared into the ether....hey, what about things like Epic and Blood Bowl? Oops.
GW has this fantastic pattern of releasing or licensing things out, pushing them like they're the bestest thing EVER for several months and then forgetting it ever existed. All the way down to their specialist games. Hell, they've even done it with their core games.
Anyone remember the Thorkinson's Isle campaign they ran? Basically ended a month early, telling you to come back next month for the finale....and never published it.
In about 10 years.
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Post by: Leth
I love how the counter argument seems to be " Why buy it when I can steal it?"
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Post by: ShumaGorath
DarkStarSabre wrote:-Loki- wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:kirsanth wrote:Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail
Not if you know anything about mobile development. Unless GW stops there. . . .
It IS GW after all. Odds of them importing stuff to other platforms? Heh. When's the last time you saw an Army Builder update that wasn't fan-made?
So Games Workshop are now being demonised over a completely separate companies product, Army Builder? Only on Dakka. Some of you guys are pure class.
A company they pushed and promoted for god knows how long and then proceeded to ignore and neglect. Remember the Combat Card game they had a few years back? You know, the one that disappeared into the ether....hey, what about things like Epic and Blood Bowl? Oops. GW has this fantastic pattern of releasing or licensing things out, pushing them like they're the bestest thing EVER for several months and then forgetting it ever existed. All the way down to their specialist games. Hell, they've even done it with their core games. Anyone remember the Thorkinson's Isle campaign they ran? Basically ended a month early, telling you to come back next month for the finale....and never published it. In about 10 years.
I'd be more a fan of army builder as a company if in over a decade their software received any improvements at all. It's ugly, it's buggy,it's overly expensive. It's basically just a trussed up excel spreadsheet maker and it always has been. The cost of getting even a vaguely competent interface designer in there shouldn't be so dramatic that they'd hire someone whose entire career experience is making 90's geocities websites to put gradients on everything instead. Hell, I'd do it. They charge full product prices for a piece of garage software that their community provides content for. Automatically Appended Next Post: Leth wrote:I love how the counter argument seems to be " Why buy it when I can steal it?"
It's a legitimate counter argument and it's one that GW was probably aware of. The 40k playing and iPad owning community probably has a reasonable excess of spending cash to justify something like this though. At the very least that's likely what GW was thinking.
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Post by: 12thRonin
d-usa wrote:
Actually, Army Builder does charge you. You pay for a yearly license to get the automatic update. When that license expires you can either renew or update manually.
Until they release a breaking change that causes datafiles not to be backward compatible with prior versions (3.2 to 3.1/3.0) and then you have to pony up for a year or some amount to cover years of support you didn't pay for because there was no support.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
12thRonin wrote:d-usa wrote:
Actually, Army Builder does charge you. You pay for a yearly license to get the automatic update. When that license expires you can either renew or update manually.
Until they release a breaking change that causes datafiles not to be backward compatible with prior versions (3.2 to 3.1/3.0) and then you have to pony up for a year or some amount to cover years of support you didn't pay for because there was no support.
I've had to buy the program three times in my lifetime and after my mac died I need it now for a fourth. I'm never buying it again.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
hotsauceman1 wrote:Wait, I hope all codexes arent released this way now. If so im left in the dust.
Same here. Down own the equipment, dont plan to. Also, there is no way I would pay that price for a digital copy.
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Post by: shasolenzabi
I like this:
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Post by: Alpharius
Leth wrote:I love how the counter argument seems to be " Why buy it when I can steal it?"
No kidding.
Anyone who is advocating piracy, please STOP - OK?
Thanks!
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Post by: Vryce
d-usa wrote:Vryce wrote:Hrm.. where to start. I suppose I'll start w/ this - this is actually a GOOD idea. It shows the customer base (us) that they are actively trying to stay in the curve when it comes to things tech-y, and it also shows that they're willing look in other directions with their books. Also, doing the trial (hopefully) run on the iOS is the logical thing to do, however, the reasons being that it has the highest marketshare for this type of thing are of secondary concern. The reason they're doing this on iOS, is because Apple has a beautiful programming language that makes this stuff incredibly easy to do. Sure, the iPad has the most marketshare, but lets be honest - the % of people in this hobby w/ an iPad is MAYBE 1% of total actual users. When was the last time you were @ your FLGS & somebody showed up w/ a tablet of any kind...?
I am a tablet user, but I never take it to my FLGS. My tabled has movies and music on it, why would I take it to my FLGS when I am there to play games? So the lack of iPads at your FLGS is not a very accurate indicator for tabled use by gamers IMO.
Vryce wrote:Realistically, this is a solution to a set of problems that I - and the rest of you, tbh - DON'T have. "I have so much stuff to carry, the BRB, the codecies for all my armies & all their FAQ's, etc., etc." Solution - don't carry all that stuff. There's absolutely no reason that if you have multiple armies (most of us do obviously) that you have to take ALL of them & their required materials w/ you when you go play. But, when you do, be prepared to take that stuff w/ you. You can buy a decent backpack from Wal-Mart (or regional equivilent) for ~$15. If you're taking 5 - 7 books w/ you as I have seen people mention, then that means that you're probably carrying @ least that many armies too, so the backpack full of books is the last of your concerns.
So what you are saying is "You already carry lots of stuff, who cares if you carry more?" Many people have books for armies that they don't own, maybe they want to look at the rules and units that an opponent is using or for pickup games. I was at a family reunion this weekend and it turns out one of my brothers that I hardly see plays 40K now. I didn't have my books with me, but I did have a PDF of my C: SM book on my laptop. Between that and Army Builder I was able to use a part of his C: CSM force as a proxy to play a pickup game.
Vryce wrote:"I need to have a searchable interface for my rules." WHY? Do you not KNOW your relevent codex?  Have you not sat on the toilet for hours on end (hopefully not consecutively ) and read your codex over & over & over & over..? If you have to look up a rule EVERY SINGLE TIME you play (someone mentioned a 'nid psychic power he could never find when he used it), than you have more problems than a digital copy of your codex will solve. Now, I understand someone may want to look @ a particular rule from time to time, or you may be using a new character/unit than you're used to & you might need to verify you have it right. Solution - tabs. Get some stick on tabs from the stationery section of your local all-in-one store & label your codex so these things can be easily found. And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."
Stick-on tabs don't solve the problem of people not wanting to carry every book out there.
As far as "don't you know your codex" goes: have you been so lucky that you never played anybody that doesn't know your codex and said "you are making that up, show me the rule"? The majority of my having to find a rule is for my opponent.
Vryce wrote:And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."
An earlier point that I made is that I don't think we will see how viable this product is until the first new rulebook or new codex. It is not a supplement to a hard copy, not in the format it is sold. I think during the next release, when people will decide "Do I want this as a hard copy OR do I want it digital", we will see how readily it is accepted.
Vryce wrote:This idea, like I said, is great, but it needs MUCH refinement before it's of any real practical use to anyone here. For those of us who don't have a tablet (I'm guessing @ least 75% of the users here), I have serious doubts that this is going to make them run out & purchase one (I know I wont) and if GW is going to a digital only format, they're going to loose LOTS of business. Realistically, until tablets (of any variety) become the norm, this is all just grandstanding, to make them feel like they're 'doing us a favor' & moving into the digital age.
~Vryce
I'm pretty sure you didn't actually read my post @ all. For one thing, you essentially proved my point by saying you have a tablet, but don't use it for gaming or take it to the store. Notice, you didn't say what kind of tablet you use, just that you have one. If you don't have an iPad, your point here is basically moot. Also, I never said "You already carry lots of heavy stuff, why not carry more." I said that the people taking 5 - 7 books to the store @ a time did so of their own volition - there's never a necessity to bring that many books. You also cite the people who have codex's for army's they don't play. So do I - but I'm not taking my 3.5 ed Chaos codex w/ me when I go to my FLGS, nor am I taking my current edition DA or Eldar books either. THEN you go on to say that you have PDF's on your laptop & used that to play a PUG w/ your brother - PDF's were never really the issue on discussion.
And if stick on tabs 'don't solve the problem of people not wanting to carry every book out there' then my response to that (and still is) DON'T. Take the codex you're playing for the day & leave the rest @ home. Tabs also make it great for the other person wanting to know the rule you're refering to in your book - you know, the 'unlucky' people that don't know their opponents codex's - simply open to the page that you TABBED & show them the rule.
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Post by: oni
It's comical to me that with today's price increase the paper codex is now priced identically to the digital codex. It's quite obvious to me that the digital version isn't meant for those who already own the paper book. Ultimately, $42 USD is an outrageous price for either of them.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Alpharius wrote:Leth wrote:I love how the counter argument seems to be " Why buy it when I can steal it?"
No kidding.
Anyone who is advocating piracy, please STOP - OK?
Thanks!
It's a realistic concern in the marketing of a digital product. Advocation on this website isn't ok, but it's important to the discussion of the viability of this product.
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Post by: gorgon
12thRonin wrote:d-usa wrote:
Actually, Army Builder does charge you. You pay for a yearly license to get the automatic update. When that license expires you can either renew or update manually.
Until they release a breaking change that causes datafiles not to be backward compatible with prior versions (3.2 to 3.1/3.0) and then you have to pony up for a year or some amount to cover years of support you didn't pay for because there was no support.
I used to be an AB fan until they did that. If the invalidating release had been 4.0 with a bunch of new features, fine, I fully understand having to pony up again. But that was just a jerk move, and they lost this customer over it.
Regarding iPad codicies, one of the reasons I like this move is because it's aimed at a more veteran audience. Sure, the kiddies have iPads and are savvy users of said tablets. But I just think these will be downloaded more by Vinny Veteran than by Billy Beginner, and it might be a good sign about the direction of 6th edition.
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Post by: Kroothawk
stickmonkey wrote:The release schedule is a little wonky time wise, but my info tells me we should see roughly 1-3 codexes released a month, but not all are being converted...right now. Pace may be sporadic. In addition, there will be roughly 4-5 other supplements per month. (fantasy should see the same.)
Up next are BA, Necrons, GK, and DE.
I expect these by sept. as well as 6th Ed, and the new CSM book.
Painting guides for specific armies should roughly coincide with releases for those armies.
Later this year should see IG, Tyranids, and SoB.
Notably absent...you can figure that out
(for fantasy players existing army books for 8th are all to be released by dec)
Cheers.
BramGaunt wrote:Afaik, digital versions will be available a little later than printed ones, because GW hopes to get iPad users to buy both. Which they probably will.
Darnok wrote:Not only do I have copies of several more iBook codexes, I have beta versions of the Android equivalents too (it is not 100% certain they will go ahead with this, but I expect they will). I cannot tell you more for reasons I cannot go into, but rest assured that I will tell you all about them immediately after they are released to the general public.
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Post by: ash1986
Still guys It's GW trying to make more cash from something unnecessary, and outdated. The Space Marine codex is renewed near every edition. Why didn't they do say Grey Knights? or even Necrons? Its because they are trying to milk as much from their poster boys as possible until they give them a new book which all marine players will folk out £25 or even £30 which they will charge what is essentially a set of rules in a binding which they probably make 400% profit on as the codex is the almost catalog for kids to buy new stuff.
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Post by: Davor
ash1986 wrote:Still guys It's GW trying to make more cash from something unnecessary, and outdated. The Space Marine codex is renewed near every edition. Why didn't they do say Grey Knights? or even Necrons? Its because they are trying to milk as much from their poster boys as possible until they give them a new book which all marine players will folk out £25 or even £30 which they will charge what is essentially a set of rules in a binding which they probably make 400% profit on as the codex is the almost catalog for kids to buy new stuff.
Right now, it's a sucker is born every minute. Doesn't matter if people have the money to afford it or not. The thing is, people paid about $80 for the SM codex. Doesn't matter if it's an electronic version or not, YOU STILL PAID twice for something you are using once.
Then again we are paying $50 for something that costs 50 cents to make so I guess we are all suckers in the end. Doesn't matter if you buy on ebay or not you still are over paying. Just not as much.
That being said, why SM though? Does this mean that SM will not be update in a while? Is it because GW thinks since 1/2 if not more, or what ever it is % of people who play SM will get it?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Davor wrote:That being said, why SM though? Does this mean that SM will not be update in a while?
1.) SM seem to be quite popular
2.) They indeed get no new Codex in the near future.
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Post by: nkelsch
Kroothawk wrote:Davor wrote:That being said, why SM though? Does this mean that SM will not be update in a while?
1.) SM seem to be quite popular
2.) They indeed get no new Codex in the near future.
All I can think of is SM are the posterchildren. Disney would release a Micky Mouse item first and not lead with a Daisy Duck product first.
If they are going to do errata for 6th edition, maybe this is one of the ways they plan to do it is via the e-book and then release clumsy paper erratas for the paper codexes.
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Post by: Lightcavalier
Interesting note in response to an email I sent to GW in regards to the one platform issue with this digital codex:
Thanks for writing in to us, although I don’t have great news for you. While the Digital books will no doubt get an updates other platforms at some point in the future, at this time we don’t know when this will be. However, please keep the faith that they haven’t been forgotten about them and their time will come one day!
Sorry we couldn’t be any more help than this.
Antonio Cumba
Customer Services Manager
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Post by: helium42
Leth wrote:I think that once it goes to android then it will be a good deal for them. However I feel that the limited market might be a bad thing. I look forward to trying to buy all the new books as they come out for it(once it is on android) However I will not be buying the old books as I already have most of them.
iPads make up 68% of the tablet market. So implying that they released this to a 'limited' market is somewhat misleading. They released it to the largest market. If it is successful, I'm sure we'll see it expanded to other markets.
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Post by: Rayvon
WEll i have not got an Ibook nor do i want one, and i would not buy this anyway even if i did.
This is a step in the right direction though, thats for sure, i never thought i would see the day !!
Cyporiean wrote:Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.
If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.
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Post by: jwhitehead333
ash1986 wrote:Still guys It's GW trying to make more cash from something unnecessary, and outdated. The Space Marine codex is renewed near every edition. Why didn't they do say Grey Knights? or even Necrons? Its because they are trying to milk as much from their poster boys as possible until they give them a new book which all marine players will folk out £25 or even £30 which they will charge what is essentially a set of rules in a binding which they probably make 400% profit on as the codex is the almost catalog for kids to buy new stuff.
Sure its GW, they are trying to make money by releasing the SM codex, which will most likely get updated in 6th ed. But SM is also the most popular army, which is a good reason to start the digital codex 'revolution' with them first.
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Post by: d-usa
Kroothawk wrote:stickmonkey wrote:
Painting guides for specific armies should roughly coincide with releases for those armies.
There is something that I could see this be a very good use for. (Hopefully) cheap painting guides for different marines, with an ability to zoom in and 360 during the different steps, switch with different markings, etc...
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Post by: Scipio Africanus
d-usa wrote:Scipio Africanus wrote:
Also, I very much doubt they will update these books. they never have before, why would they start now?
How would they have updated the books before, considering there are no prior ebooks?
I meant, they have not in my experience offered updates for any material outside of FAQ which you have to spend time finding. (I also strongly believe they should have the FAQ as a 'related link' for the codex in question.)
Of course, I might be wrong. If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, good for me.
yakface wrote:Scipio Africanus wrote:For the record, the book is annoying for rules useage. I hope no one else wastes their money on this.
I've found the book to be superior to the print version when it comes to rules usage (the reasons why are in my review). What precisely do you find annoying?
I can see why touching the name of the rule anywhere in the book and having it pop up is useful and I will use it as such.
Then again, I also was expecting to be able to highlight key parts of rules, which I can't because they come up as a popup.
At least for the important rules (the one's found in the codex) it would be lovely to be able to highlight the part where the rule says ' SM who regroup using AtSKNF can move a further 6" or cound as not moving'.
In the FNP part, I wanna highlight the parts where it tells me that the rule can't be used for x reason.
that's what I was expecting, and I was disapointed.
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Post by: Leth
helium42 wrote:Leth wrote:I think that once it goes to android then it will be a good deal for them. However I feel that the limited market might be a bad thing. I look forward to trying to buy all the new books as they come out for it(once it is on android) However I will not be buying the old books as I already have most of them.
iPads make up 68% of the tablet market. So implying that they released this to a 'limited' market is somewhat misleading. They released it to the largest market. If it is successful, I'm sure we'll see it expanded to other markets.
Now what is the Ipad market compared to the Windows market, the android market, and any other computer equivalent?
I was not limiting it to tablets. I cant use it on a laptop or desktop either
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Leth wrote:helium42 wrote:Leth wrote:I think that once it goes to android then it will be a good deal for them. However I feel that the limited market might be a bad thing. I look forward to trying to buy all the new books as they come out for it(once it is on android) However I will not be buying the old books as I already have most of them.
iPads make up 68% of the tablet market. So implying that they released this to a 'limited' market is somewhat misleading. They released it to the largest market. If it is successful, I'm sure we'll see it expanded to other markets.
Now what is the Ipad market compared to the Windows market, the android market, and any other computer equivalent? I was not limiting it to tablets. I cant use it on a laptop or desktop either
Comparing it to the active ebook reading market of those platforms? Titanic. No one uses Ebooks on desktops, the vast vast majority of people wouldn't even know how. It's not a natively supported format on PCs in the first place and touch driven interfaces are trash when used on a mouse and keyboard. Certainly no one is going to pay that much for non mobile content designed for a different interface so that they can read a book they probably already own.
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Post by: yakface
Leth wrote:
Now what is the Ipad market compared to the Windows market, the android market, and any other computer equivalent?
I was not limiting it to tablets. I cant use it on a laptop or desktop either
The problem here is what the 'market' actually is in these cases. Because if we're talking about a PDF, which could be used by anything then GW would basically have to be giving it away for free, because regardless of what price they charge for it, it would get passed around so quickly it might as well be free.
So yes, the market for a PDF is huge, but is it as profitable as making it only for a closed platform, where people essentially cannot trade or pirate the file?
GW have shown no interest in going after the business model of providing their rules for free as an attempt to draw customers in. You can argue whether this is a smart or stupid strategy all day long, but the fact is, that isn't their strategy, and this new digital version is not an attempt to change that policy, merely a different way to consume what they already offer in print form.
So within that business model mindset, GW choosing to go with the majority market-share leader of an incredibly fast-growing segment (the tablet) is piratically a no-brainer. The real question will be can and will they convert the file to some sort of android version at some point. Ultimately I think that will depend on whether or not they can suitably protect the android version from being passed around, because I think that definitely has to be one of the things that really drew GW to the ibooks 2.0 format (how 'closed' it is and therefore how much they can get compensated for the product).
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Post by: ShumaGorath
yakface wrote:Leth wrote:
Now what is the Ipad market compared to the Windows market, the android market, and any other computer equivalent?
I was not limiting it to tablets. I cant use it on a laptop or desktop either
The problem here is what the 'market' actually is in these cases. Because if we're talking about a PDF, which could be used by anything then GW would basically have to be giving it away for free, because regardless of what price they charge for it, it would get passed around so quickly it might as well be free.
So yes, the market for a PDF is huge, but is it as profitable as making it only for a closed platform, where people essentially cannot trade or pirate the file?
GW have shown no interest in going after the business model of providing their rules for free as an attempt to draw customers in. You can argue whether this is a smart or stupid strategy all day long, but the fact is, that isn't their strategy, and this new digital version is not an attempt to change that policy, merely a different way to consume what they already offer in print form.
So within that business model mindset, GW choosing to go with the majority market-share leader of an incredibly fast-growing segment (the tablet) is piratically a no-brainer. The real question will be can and will they convert the file to some sort of android version at some point. Ultimately I think that will depend on whether or not they can suitably protect the android version from being passed around, because I think that definitely has to be one of the things that really drew GW to the ibooks 2.0 format (how 'closed' it is and therefore how much they can get compensated for the product).
What do you think the release of this product (and the stormtalon) says about the market viability of a C: SM release early in the lifespan of sixth? I know that popular wisdom is that new 40k game versions are followed by a bluemarine book, but I have seen no signs of that in this cycle, and this new format release so close to the coming edition would imply that they're putting financial interests into maintaining the status quo of the games signature army for quite some time.
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Post by: d-usa
I think rumors and general game play seem to indicate that C:SM is still fairly strong and not due for an update soon. I don't think we have had any whispers of a new Vanilla Marine codex at all.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
d-usa wrote:I think rumors and general game play seem to indicate that C:SM is still fairly strong and not due for an update soon. I don't think we have had any whispers of a new Vanilla Marine codex at all.
The vanilla marine book is one of the games weakest. It's not 3rd ed Necron or current tau bad, but it's easily the weakest of the power armor books (for fifth edition, a meta change that is less reliant on assault or overwhelming firepower could change that) and those comprise most of the game. GW has shown through third, fourth, and fifth that C: SM is released either first or very close to first with every new edition, but I agree that there seems to be no indication that the trend will continue into sixth. Despite that, many in the rumormill circles usually put an asterisk next to rumors implying that a new C: SM is somewhat expected. I somewhat suspect that the stormtalon and this ebook put a nail in that ideas coffin.
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Post by: d-usa
ShumaGorath wrote:d-usa wrote:I think rumors and general game play seem to indicate that C:SM is still fairly strong and not due for an update soon. I don't think we have had any whispers of a new Vanilla Marine codex at all.
The vanilla marine book is one of the games weakest. It's not 3rd ed Necron or current tau bad, but it's easily the weakest of the power armor books (for fifth edition, a meta change that is less reliant on assault or overwhelming firepower could change that) and those comprise most of the game. GW has shown through third, fourth, and fifth that C: SM is released either first or very close to first with every new edition, but I agree that there seems to be no indication that the trend will continue into sixth. Despite that, many in the rumormill circles usually put an asterisk next to rumors implying that a new C: SM is somewhat expected. I somewhat suspect that the stormtalon and this ebook put a nail in that ideas coffin.
One big unknown is of course the mechanics of 6th edition. It could be that the rule changes themselves might give C: SM a bump on the competitive scale.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Plus, isn't the big marine dex of early 6th Ed going to be green marines?
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Post by: ShumaGorath
d-usa wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:d-usa wrote:I think rumors and general game play seem to indicate that C:SM is still fairly strong and not due for an update soon. I don't think we have had any whispers of a new Vanilla Marine codex at all.
The vanilla marine book is one of the games weakest. It's not 3rd ed Necron or current tau bad, but it's easily the weakest of the power armor books (for fifth edition, a meta change that is less reliant on assault or overwhelming firepower could change that) and those comprise most of the game. GW has shown through third, fourth, and fifth that C: SM is released either first or very close to first with every new edition, but I agree that there seems to be no indication that the trend will continue into sixth. Despite that, many in the rumormill circles usually put an asterisk next to rumors implying that a new C: SM is somewhat expected. I somewhat suspect that the stormtalon and this ebook put a nail in that ideas coffin.
One big unknown is of course the mechanics of 6th edition. It could be that the rule changes themselves might give C: SM a bump on the competitive scale.
Certainly true, they're low on the scale due to wacky costing in heavy weapon squads, their inability to really mech up very well, and their lack of close combat capability in their troops slot. The AP weapon change looks to make generic terminators (the games cheapest) much better and non troop scoring mixed with scoring that is persistent turn by turn rather than relying on late game assault grabs could bring the book back a bit. It's going to be hard for it ever to compete with books like wolves or BAs though, especially BAs which have mostly identical choices with the exception that they're all cheaper, have access to more cheaper equipment, and have plentiful access to FNP. No rules change is really going to shore up fundamentally bad costing. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ozymandias wrote:Plus, isn't the big marine dex of early 6th Ed going to be green marines?
Their recent release schedule implies a codex marine book every other release, so a vanilla codex could slide in after that and still be fairly early in the cycle. Too early for products like the iBook to really be marketable though.
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Post by: yakface
I honestly don't think the 'power-level' of a codex has any bearing whatsoever on GW's decision on whether to update a codex a not. So personally I'm not reading into the decision to release the SM Codex as the first digital offering at all. I'd guess that vanilla SM armies are still the most common worldwide when you're not just focused on tournament armies, and besides SMs are GW's flagship product so it makes sense that they'd want to introduce the SM book as the first offering even if it is a bit underwhelming 'power-wise' when compared to the other SM chapter books.
I guess this digital release does make me feel that its unlikely that the generic SM book will be redone soon after 6th edition, but again I don't think GW would bat an eye about putting out a digital version of their book and then putting out the new edition of the SM Codex like a year later.
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Post by: Chrysis
yakface wrote:
GW have shown no interest in going after the business model of providing their rules for free as an attempt to draw customers in. You can argue whether this is a smart or stupid strategy all day long, but the fact is, that isn't their strategy, and this new digital version is not an attempt to change that policy, merely a different way to consume what they already offer in print form.
That's not entirely true, they are more than willing to provide the rules (or at least the codexes) as free PDFs if they think it's in the best interest of the particular market. Case in point is Japan, where all the current codexes are available as PDFs off the GW website. They don't have the market presence in Japan, so codexes are available for free and they make the money off the Australian level model prices.
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Post by: Lormax
Wow, time to learn Japanese
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Post by: yakface
Lormax wrote:Wow, time to learn Japanese
Heh. That's a time = money commitment far greater than buying an iPad!
But yeah, it is true that GW has released PDFs in some markets and in some cases, however it is clear from the price point of this digital format release that they're not trying to grab a huge digital marketshare, but rather they're looking for another revenue stream from those willing to buy.
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Post by: Cheex
I know I'm only dreaming here, but I wonder - assuming that these digital codices are going to be updated with errata as they come out - I wonder if GW will be able to link relevant FAQ entries on specific pages of the digital codex?
I mean, say you're digitally flipping through the Space Marine codex and you're unsure how a rule works. Tap the FAQ button on the screen, and it will load any FAQ entries that are relevant to that page. That would be a nifty feature.
Heck, it's entirely possible GW already has plans for doing this, and that they're just waiting until 6th edition before applying it to the SM codex. It would also explain quite neatly why GW released an existing (and popular) codex a month before the new edition.
But again, I'm just dreaming. I haven't yet bought the Digidex (you heard the term first here, folks), but I'm waiting to see what kind of support they'll be giving it; I think the 6th edition release will give us a fair idea of what GW is planning, at least.
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Post by: notprop
Yeah I don't see any reason for GW not to include errata and FAQs free of charge. It would open an interesting legal question if they didn't I'm sure.
I guess I'm still bothered by the idea of buying a 5th edition codex with the imminent arrival of 6th but do really like he idea of the digital format and its features. I think that I will hold off until newly released codecies are released and start from there with the assuming that they will only last one edition. Codeci are too important to the structure of 40k sales to warrant updating through rulebook editions.
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Post by: Dark
Well, while I think moving onto digital it's a good idea, I do want to see a legal PDF market. And no one tell me it cannot be done, DriveThruRPG does it, with a name and order number on every page that also appears when you print it (that's how I have my Vampire: the Masquerade clanbooks, and I've printed 'em all and look great)
Of course, my wish has totally nothing to do with importations being closed, specially on books and me still wanting to go legal... 9.9 (Hel, I'm actually buying e-books a want/need, printing them and binding 'em, hard cover and all)
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Post by: solkan
Lormax wrote:Wow, time to learn Japanese
But that changed several months ago. New books such as the Necron codex are no longer being released as free PDF's by GW Japan. Codex: Necron's 4500 yen for the print edition.
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Post by: MetalOxide
I have seen a few posts saying that IPads last longer than the books. All I can say is that its absolute nonsense, my Chaos Space Marine Book has lasted me since 2007 and still in good condition.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
MetalOxide wrote:I have seen a few posts saying that IPads last longer than the books. All I can say is that its absolute nonsense, my Chaos Space Marine Book has lasted me since 2007 and still in good condition.
My Space Marine codex has been losing pages from day one.
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Post by: DIDM
yep, it is official
GW is run by a bunch of middle aged children who all own Apple products
cool idea, TERRIBLE ATTEMPT
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Post by: The Crippler
It's funny, if you read comics, and follow along in the world of comics media, you've heard almost all of these arguments, or a variation of them, many times over the past couple of years.
*Stupid Marvel prices all their digital books at the same price point as their physical copies"
etc.
The noise has generally died down now. Day and date comics exist. People that want them can buy them without leaving their couch. They are a different reading experience then what you get from holding a floppy in your hands. Some, would say a superior experience. (including me) The point is, you can read what you want without having an iPad. You don't need to purchase them in this format. Physical books will work just fine. I, however, plan on taking full advantage of living in the year 2012.
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Post by: MetalOxide
ShumaGorath wrote:MetalOxide wrote:I have seen a few posts saying that IPads last longer than the books. All I can say is that its absolute nonsense, my Chaos Space Marine Book has lasted me since 2007 and still in good condition.
My Space Marine codex has been losing pages from day one.
Maybe GW should of changed the binding to make the booksmore durable then. I would of prefered to have hardback books at a slightly higher price than an ebook personally.
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Post by: Davor
The Crippler wrote: I, however, plan on taking full advantage of living in the year 2012.
Just curious, what were you doing in 2011 then? Living in the Dark Ages?
Thing is, not sure how to take this. Are you nocking down people because they are not living up to date? So how come it's ok then for GW to take so long to be living in the 21st century then? It's one of the reasons why people are nocking of GW. Too little to late maybe?
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Post by: vitki
I think it is great and has needed doing. If this does not follow the army builder program GW released then never updated, I will buy them all. But I'm waiting until I see a FAQ or 6th edition update applied.
Once they have shown me that they will keep these up to date, I will be all in.
I own an iPad and will most likely be getting a Windows 8 tablet for work once they are out. Hopefully, these will start coming out on other platforms once they get a bit of steam going on Apple.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
DIDM wrote:yep, it is official
GW is run by a bunch of middle aged children who all own Apple products
cool idea, TERRIBLE ATTEMPT
Going after the only financially meaningful market in tablets isn't the move of an obsessed fanboy. Pretending that android tablets have a thriving business model behind their app markets is.
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Post by: Dark
One thing for sure is, lads from here (like me) will be more alienated by GW.
Getting a codex was hard (and, awful truth is, most FLGS allow bad prints/photocopies of the codex and lead recasts here).
Apple stuff costs an eye and a kidney here, and since importations are closed, I'd have to nab from the net the upcoming 6th Ed book :/
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
My work PC isn't displaying the flag correctly - where are you from and why are imports banned?
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Post by: Dark
Argentina, and so the foreign currency (namely USD) is positive so the government can keep it's inner populist ways that are always so healthy for a country in the long run...
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Post by: Breotan
Just drive to Uruguay and grab your stuff there.
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Post by: The Infinite
MetalOxide wrote:I have seen a few posts saying that IPads last longer than the books. All I can say is that its absolute nonsense, my Chaos Space Marine Book has lasted me since 2007 and still in good condition.
Yeah, it's laughable that people think their tablet is going to last more than 3 years.
All electronic goods produced since 1990 have been specifically engineered to last 3 years and no longer, it means you have to buy the new version (at the new, higher, price) regularly.
You got more than 3 years from your ipod? Good for you, you're bucking the trend.
You've had your 55" plasma screen telly for 6 years with no problems? Again, good for you, you're also bucking the trend (and are statistically responsible for mine failing early, I'll remember, don't worry  ).
Most phones begin to fail as the 24 month contract they came on ends, most appliances fail at the point the extended warranty runs out (3-5 years, stupid washing machine...), Cars don't last much beyond 5 years (unless you buy a Kia and then you get 7); see if you can find lifetime warranty electronic goods any more.
The rate at which we're throwing away broken electronic goods has skyrocketed in the last 2 decades, and has led to a whole host of issues regarding the toxic materials in said electronic goods leeching into the environment.
(don't even get started on the European directive to get rid of 100W tungsten filament light bulbs yet offer as the only replacement a product containing mercury, with no recycling route... seriously, why does anyone listen to Brussels at all?)
So yeah, ipads lasting longer than books, even GW's crappy-binding-job variety?
'fraid not.
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Post by: d-usa
But I don't think anybody is advocating purchasing iPads for the sole purpose of buying a GW eCodex.
People who have iPads are going to replace them anyway, so the service live is not exactly an added cost of eCodex ownership.
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Post by: Dark
Breotan wrote:Just drive to Uruguay and grab your stuff there.
Uh, $134 USD added just in gas, assuming the government allowed me to exchange my money into foreigh currency (you go to the exchange places or banks, then they call the AFIP -local economical organization- with your data and how much of X foreigh money you want to buy and they say "yes" or "no". You can only try 2 ammounts per day). I guess it's too much to ask to have dem books at stores or being able to order ir and have to go look for it at the main Post Office building.
Theinfinite wrote: see if you can find lifetime warranty electronic goods any more.
Kingston's RAM :p
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Post by: The Infinite
Dark wrote:Breotan wrote:Just drive to Uruguay and grab your stuff there.
Uh, $134 USD added just in gas, assuming the government allowed me to exchange my money into foreigh currency (you go to the exchange places or banks, then they call the AFIP -local economical organization- with your data and how much of X foreigh money you want to buy and they say "yes" or "no". You can only try 2 ammounts per day). I guess it's too much to ask to have dem books at stores or being able to order ir and have to go look for it at the main Post Office building. Theinfinite wrote: see if you can find lifetime warranty electronic goods any more.
Kingston's RAM :p
Nice  But easily explained due to the speed with which people replace RAM anyway; by the time 3 years is up, your 8Gb stick has been superseded with four 256Gb sticks for the same cost. And still a long way from my Grandmother's Vacuum Cleaner; 5 years older than me yet still gives our brand new Miele a run for it's money.
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Post by: Void_walker
Off topic (like some have seemed to strayed) - it depends on how you actually treat/look after things to whether it lasts of not. I've got a couple of WHF books from 1992 still in brilliant condition, paper is going a little yellow as it does in age, my car is 10 years old - 90% of the parts are still the orginial ones that was on it when it rolled out the factory (and no it's not a Kia)....
I've seen people go through phones/cars/computers at an unbelievable rate cause they treat it like crap. So i disagree with the "evil companies breaking it so you buy more"
On topic - i bought the battlefield challenge deathknell watch and I liked it. Price point was a bit on the high side. But like everything no one is putting a gun to your head to buy it so it's to the indiviual to buy it or not. So when the other companies do it are we going to see a "cheese and wine" about that or is it because it's GW.....oh yeah it's GW
my 50 cents (no change)
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Post by: Adept Vai
I really like this but for the price I'm old-fashioned and actually prefer a real book. I don't know how they plan on continuing this but any updates/errata could be easily "patched" through ITunes but if you need to buy each and every update for full price again this will fail however cool it is. I already fear bringing my models to my GW store with all the kids and their greasy fingers let alone my IPad 2!
It has its advantages and disadvantages really and in the end it is down to personal choice but as high-tech as I think I am I will stick to paper for now.
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Post by: StraightSilver
Well I was lucky enough to get to use the Space Marine Digital Codex this weekend and I have to say I was actually very impressed.
It is more than just a PDF copy of the Codex, it is fully interactive, and most importantly has a search function which during a game will be very useful indeed.
It also has the Storm Talon in the Codex, and has interactive artwork, 360 pics etc.
However is it worth £5 more than the paper Codex? I don't think so, but I think they were bang on with the actual product itself.
It would have been so nice to have an army builder function in there though, and I am a bit puzzled they didn't include it.
I must admit that if they were to do this for the 6th Edition mini rulebook it would be very handy indeed.
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Post by: Wolfstan
I've work with InDesign and had looked at producing emags but never gotten around to it, but can anybody back up the claim that the cost is justified? From my understanding they will already have the Codexes in a digital format, so that's most of the work done. They then need to export and tweak to work on an iPad, is it that much work? Won't InDesign do a lot of it for you or don't they have a plugin for it yet?
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Post by: Dark
Wolfstan wrote:I've work with InDesign and had looked at producing emags but never gotten around to it, but can anybody back up the claim that the cost is justified? From my understanding they will already have the Codexes in a digital format, so that's most of the work done. They then need to export and tweak to work on an iPad, is it that much work? Won't InDesign do a lot of it for you or don't they have a plugin for it yet?
Well, yes. We use InDesign to make the Army 'zines and books here, so yes, Codices are already digitalized, just not sure about making those (let's call them) raw files into interactive stuff.
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Post by: spaceelf
Now that GW has raised the price of the paper codex to match the ebook, the price differential is no longer an argument. However, the new higher price is outrageous. It is the same as the cost of a moderately priced video game, and that takes a lot more art work, play testing, and programming.
It is my understanding that the new interactive stuff is basically canned stuff from Apple. Nice page turns, and popup links to definitions. All GW has to do is supply the pages, and links to the definitions.
GW can say very little to justify the high price of an e-book, as we all know that GW devotes very little resources to proof reading, play testing, etc. Before they said you were paying for nice glossy paper and color pages. Now we are paying for typos, and photos that are already on their site for free.
For the price they are charging for an ecodex, you should in the very least get the entire 40k rulebook, army books, and an army builder. That would make it much more comparable to video games. It should also be noted that the video game industry is trending towards MUCH less expensive games such as the ones on cell phones.
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Post by: Dark
Reminds me of the movie theatres logic.
"People pirates movies and won't come here... raise all prices to make it up wih the ones that still come"
Later...
"Now less people comes... raise all prices again!"
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Post by: labmouse42
The price is about $12 to high. For $30 I would have bought it. At $42 its a bit of a stretch.
Its a great quality product, and if there is a new Codex coming out that I want -- I will consider buying it. In regards to replacing an existing codex I own, there is no way I would pay that premium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Infinite wrote: Cars don't last much beyond 5 years (unless you buy a Kia and then you get 7)
While I agree with you on the phones, I disagree here.
If you bought a good car and take good care of it, you can get a lot more than 5-7 years out of it. I got 10 years out of my Saturn before I sold it, and it was still running well.
Unlike an ipad, you can replace parts as they break.
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Post by: reps0l
spaceelf wrote:Now that GW has raised the price of the paper codex to match the ebook, the price differential is no longer an argument. However, the new higher price is outrageous. It is the same as the cost of a moderately priced video game, and that takes a lot more art work, play testing, and programming.
And it's practically the same price of the hardcover Fantasy Army books. This is crazy.
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Post by: Mister Chaos
I do have an iPad 2, but if I search in the iBooks store for 'games workshop', 'gw', 'codex', or 'space marines', it seems like it doesn't exist... Am I doing something wrong? Are the books not (yet) available in the Belgian iBooks store? Has anyone got the same issue? Help me out, please.
By the way, I don't intend to buy their eStuff (for now), because the prices are too high in my opinion, but I'd like to download a free sample.
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Post by: The Infinite
labmouse42 wrote:The price is about $12 to high. For $30 I would have bought it. At $42 its a bit of a stretch.
Its a great quality product, and if there is a new Codex coming out that I want -- I will consider buying it. In regards to replacing an existing codex I own, there is no way I would pay that premium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Infinite wrote: Cars don't last much beyond 5 years (unless you buy a Kia and then you get 7)
While I agree with you on the phones, I disagree here.
If you bought a good car and take good care of it, you can get a lot more than 5-7 years out of it. I got 10 years out of my Saturn before I sold it, and it was still running well.
Unlike an ipad, you can replace parts as they break.
I realise this is really off topic, but replacing parts is where most car companies make money (and why warranties are as long as they are, the parts generally all last the warranty then begin to fail afterwards). Ford made a loss of $50 per car sold in 2010 (I don't have 2011 data to hand), General Motors lost $200 per car sold; they made up for it in parts (amongst other things). Toyota made a profit of $2000 per car (Mass Production vs Lean Production), but they are big advocates of replacing your car every 5 years, the head of Toyota said a couple of years ago he wanted a world where no car on the road was older than 5 years old!
Naturally, if you take care of something it'll last longer. But all electrical components have a lifetime rating, a switch will only switch a certain number of times, LCDs have an active display lifetime etc. Companies have a lot of research on what people will spend, they factor that into the production costs and don't waste money on more expensive components that last longer because they expect you to upgrade every 3 years, ideally sooner.
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Post by: cortez
I've got the same problem.
It seems the digital GW stuff is not yet available for us poor Belgians 
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Post by: Cheex
Mister Chaos wrote:I do have an iPad 2, but if I search in the iBooks store for 'games workshop', 'gw', 'codex', or 'space marines', it seems like it doesn't exist... Am I doing something wrong? Are the books not (yet) available in the Belgian iBooks store? Has anyone got the same issue? Help me out, please.
By the way, I don't intend to buy their eStuff (for now), because the prices are too high in my opinion, but I'd like to download a free sample.
If you go to the news page of the GW website and click the "Available on the iBookstore" then it should open up the right page for your country. If that doesn't work, then yeah, it might not be on the Belgian store.
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Post by: TheContortionist
the price is outrageous. and it's only for space marines. and only for people with ipads? i feel like they might loose money on this. and at that price, they should. ridiculous.
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Post by: Timmon
Price is not in fact too bad.
The iBook has production values well beyond a simple hard copy book. But, and this is a big BUT, for that price (having bought it already) I do expect that they will update it if and when a need arises, be it due to a new FAQ, spotted typo or functional error (like the dead links it already has) and especially IF the main wh40k rules get updated before a new marine dex. I will accept that when they do publish a genuinely new marine dex, Ill have to pay again full (or nearly full) price. But then the ibook has to be kept up to date.
But let's see how this ends up. And hope for an android one too.
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