Just seen this on there website.

This month Games Workshop is launching a range of incredible digital products, exclusively available through the iBookstore with the iBooks app, for use with the iPad. These digital books are amazingly interactive: you're able to swipe through galleries, view models from different angles, navigate through a Codex or a scenario, and even store battlefield notes as you go along. What's more, you can take your entire library of digital books wherever you want to paint or fight your tabletop battles.

New Releases Every Month

Over the coming months we will be releasing Codexes and Army Books, comprehensive painting articles, official rules for Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, collecting guides and tactical guidance for making the most out of your miniatures collection on the painting table and the battlefield.Games Workshop's digital products are exclusively available from the iBookstore. To download them you will need an iPad with iOS 5 or later, an Apple ID and the iBooks 2 app, which you can download for free from the App Store.

How do I buy Digital Products?

If you have an iPad, check out what is available from the iBookstore by clicking here then going to the store and searching for Games Workshop. If you are looking at what is available from a PC or Mac click on the icon below. You can also find out what is available on the iBookstore by searching for Games Workshop or by the product you want to purchase e.g Codex: Space Marines. Make sure you keep checking the Games Workshop website and Facebook page regularly for information on new digital products - more will be released every month.



- Interact with our digital books in a totally new and tactile manner.

- Take your library of digital products everywhere you enjoy your hobby.

- Reorder your purchases on your bookshelf or browse them in a list sorted by title, game system or any category of your choosing, and organise them into personal collections.

- Find a word, character or phrase anywhere in your book with the in-built search feature.

- Quickly find a specific page using the page navigator at the bottom of every page.

- Highlight your favourite passages and add notes with the built-in bookmarking features.

- Read a free sample of any digital product on the iBookstore before making it a part of your collection.

[youtube]
http://youtu.be/eI-01ylQ-0k[/youtube]

Prices
Codex Space Marine £24.99
Each Scroll of binding - £0.49


Not gona lie after watching the video I want an iPad now. Is this prehaps a sign of GW scrapping the "wave releases" atleast for books since they can be updated whenever.

Either way Gw embracing modern tech is a good sign.

I would never had guessed that it would be GW that should trick me into buying an IPad.

And i have a Nook. :(

Only ibooks? Well at least I have one but yea sucks to be without one

I assume these are the same price as the normal ones?

If they pull the crud that a digital book costs the same as hard copy the fanrage will engulf the world in flames.

From what I can tell from looking at there video there using the Apple tool to authour the book for that interactivity ( apple released this when the new iPad came out) so I think that they may only be able to release it on the iBook store unfortunately .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:If they pull the crud that a digital book costs the same as hard copy the fanrage will engulf the world in flames.

Thats pretty much standard practice unfortunately. Though the digital copy may actually be worth the money for all the cool stuff. I never thought I'd defend Gw prices in my life

Wow, credit where credit is due... this is a good move by GW.

gilljoy wrote:Thats pretty much standard practice unfortunately. Though the digital copy may actually be worth the money for all the cool stuff. I never thought I'd defend Gw prices in my life

Not from what I've seen, as an owner of several kindles and nooks... comparable yes, but not equal in price.

It's nice that they're giving people the option. Still, limiting it to ios systems rules me out.

RiTides wrote:Wow, credit where credit is due... this is a good move by GW.

gilljoy wrote:Thats pretty much standard practice unfortunately. Though the digital copy may actually be worth the money for all the cool stuff. I never thought I'd defend Gw prices in my life

Not from what I've seen, as an owner of several kindles and nooks... comparable yes, but not equal in price.

Never Said they where equal but this has more features than a standard book which I personally think is cool.

Also updated the first post with prices.

£24.99 for a codex,
49p for a scroll of binding

New Digital Products for June

- Codex: Space Marines. Expanded, fully interactive and now totalling a staggering 324 pages. Comes with searchable glossaries, 360º miniatures galleries, and fully up-to-date rules including all the Space Marine weapons and wargear, such as the new Stormtalon Gunship.

- How to Paint Citadel Miniatures - Ultramarines. An in-depth painting guide from the Design Studio's professional army painters.

- Battlefield Challenge - Deathknell Watch. An exciting Warhammer scenario based around the eldritch Deathknell Watch tower. Accompanied by a comprehensive painting guide by the Design Studio's professional painters.

- Scrolls of Binding. Full rules for use in your Warhammer Storm of Magic battles. This month we present them for the Jabberslythe, Thundertusk, Stonehorn and Mournfang packs, as well as exclusive Scrolls of Binding for Terradons and the Great Cave Squig.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a&_requestid=930047
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSearch.woa/wa/search?entity=ebook&media=all&page=1&restrict=true&startIndex=0&term=games+workshop

Wait sorry say what!? 25 quid for a codex? Jeeeeesus that's hard to justify. Probably grab codex sm to try it but man that hurts the wallet.

Edit. Anyone seeing them on the store? Only able to see 1 scroll of binding myself...

Wait, I hope all codexes arent released this way now. If so im left in the dust.

I wonder if all the dakka posters who said GW would die without the digital age will post on this thread....

Scrolls of binding....


I am suddenly reminded of those small DLC weapon packs for video games

iPad exclusive can go frell itself

I'll never buy an ebook reader nor an apple product, so I'm not terribly excited by this.

FINALLY!!!

Now if they will make it available to all platforms, that will be good. Luckily, I have an ipod, which this will work on.

And just as I start to move to Warmahordes. Clever move GW.

It's almost like Infinity Wiki, pdf downloads and army builder! Without army builder! But expensive! And exclusive for one platform! Brilliant!

Edit: also, covering only one army...
Edit 2: also, without rulebook, and only available in English. The more I read the better it gets!

What are scrolls of binding on ipads?

As for the codex, I'm impressed with how interactive it is. Let's face it.. GW is not known for passing savings down to consumers so the codex was always going to be full price or close to it even as a digital product despite competing with "free" illegal downloads. The extra features that they put into this above and beyond just a searchable/zoomable pdf combined with some partial updates (with the talon) at least give people with the hard copy some other reasons to buy this over acquiring a less savory pirated PDF.

In the end, though, I don't know if I'd get one even if I had an ipad. With 6th edition right around the corner and the 3 edition tradition of vanilla marines getting a new codex soon after, buying a possibly months-away-from-obsolete digital product may not be the best idea unless it comes with free updates (unlikely). The rumors of what is actually coming next are quite conflicted once you get past possibly chaos so I'd always be thinking about that.

I was ready to be impressed - even at a development that was five years overdue.

I was even ready to spend some money...

And then, of course, I noticed that GW had to ruin it all by making digital codices iOS-exclusive.

This can only mean good things. So what it's on an iOS device, this is the first step to GW actually doing something smart.

Yeah, For a fraction of its customer base.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Yeah, For a fraction of its customer base.

I would rather them start small and avoid mistakes then start big and well....

Well aslong as there is future suppor for other products.

That's a common approach. I've been developing a few mobile/tablet apps at work, and we normally start with iOS. Biggest marketshare, yadda yadda. If things work out, we target the more fragmented platforms later.

they are only in the UK store it seems

Well folks, finally found and bought it.

At first glance there didn't seem to be any rules in it (like what atsknf did) on closer inspection, once you tap it you get the rules. Seems like a seriously worthwhile investment. And it makes my iPad more worthwhile. Double win! :-)

Now thats kind of awesome. Going to have to get one of those i think.

Too little to late if you ask me, I mean mac only? Warroom is going to be availible on andriod/Iphone.

Pretty awesome! If only i had an ipad.

At least its a step in the right direction GW!

- Codex: Space Marines. Expanded, fully interactive and now totalling a staggering 324 pages. Comes with searchable glossaries, 360º miniatures galleries, and fully up-to-date rules including all the Space Marine weapons and wargear, such as the new Stormtalon Gunship.

Uh, I don't seem to remember the original being this huge, what's in this thing?

Hey look!

Hell just froze over!




This is amazing, amazing news. And for those bemoaning it only being on the mac: GW loves money, so I'm sure if they've taken this step (which I never thought would happen) I'm sure they're looking into bringing it to other platforms as well.

Well for all the things GW has done over the last year or so that frustrated me, this is something that I must praise. Good job GW, now figure out how to fix finecast and you'll have me as a customer again.

The FB post announcing this is full of rage and demand.
If they didnt have a plan they probably do now.

So is GW actually trying to sell products to people over the age of 14? Unless you know a lot of teenagers who have ipads.

Making it iOS only sucks. I could stand it being Mac OS, but I don't have an ipad or iphone. I have a PC and like 4 macs.

Luckily PDF's of every codex are out on torrents in about a month after release. That will have to suffice for now... if only Model Masterclass 2 had a pdf!!!

Awesome, great move by GW. I look forward to seeing where they'll take this.

Holycrusader27 wrote:Too little to late if you ask me, I mean mac only? Warroom is going to be availible on andriod/Iphone.

What is this Warroom? I finally got an Android phone, should I be looking into this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For being on i phone only, would this be a test to see how it goes? For sales and how many illigal downloads it gets? I guess this is GW dipping their toes in the pond.

As for being SM codex, would this be an indication that SM (or Ulramarines) not being updated for a while to come? I mean 24 pounds, what is that, close to $45 Canadian?

I can't see paying that much for something that will become useless soon.

Aerethan wrote:So is GW actually trying to sell products to people over the age of 14? Unless you know a lot of teenagers who have ipads.

Making it iOS only sucks. I could stand it being Mac OS, but I don't have an ipad or iphone. I have a PC and like 4 macs.

Luckily PDF's of every codex are out on torrents in about a month after release. That will have to suffice for now... if only Model Masterclass 2 had a pdf!!!

I don't know a single child from age 10 to 17 who *DOESN'T* have an iPhone.

I do like that the pirates are ready to defraud and steal from GW the first chance they get which shows people never intended to buy the electronic versions in the first place. They just wanted GW to go electronic so they would have better pirated materials.

I think publishing via iBooks is a great way to provide electronic media to people while protecting the artist's right to profit from their media and not have it stolen.

I don't have an iPad but I think this is a great move. If it's successful I'm sure we'll see it on other platforms eventually. baby steps.

I am betting that by releasing the codecs on Apple products first is GW's way of testing the waters...if the eBooks sell well on Apple products, I am guessing that they will branch out to make them compatible with other devices.

~Tim?

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:I am betting that by releasing the codecs on Apple products first is GW's way of testing the waters...if the eBooks sell well on Apple products, I am guessing that they will branch out to make them compatible with other devices.

~Tim?

I agree, however one thing that has been pointed out is that these aren't just simple ebooks. They have been crafted using apple's book design program which allows them to be super interactive. You can see this in the video where they click on the name of a special rule and it brings the rule up in a pop-up window, etc.

This format is also not easy to simply pass around like ebook files are, which is probably another way they went down this route as opposed to the simple ebook approach.

So the more I think about it, the more it seems like that this might be the only format they release it on unless android comes out with some sort of similar system that makes it really difficult (or roughly impossible) to swap the files between users.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

- Codex: Space Marines. Expanded, fully interactive and now totalling a staggering 324 pages. Comes with searchable glossaries, 360º miniatures galleries, and fully up-to-date rules including all the Space Marine weapons and wargear, such as the new Stormtalon Gunship.

Uh, I don't seem to remember the original being this huge, what's in this thing?

From the video, it looks like alot of the regular single pages have been split up into multiples with a graphic that only takes a 3"x3" part of the print codex being zoomed in and occupying a whole page. If they're counting th images (which can take up the whole screen) as a separate page, that could explain the high number.

nkelsch wrote:

Aerethan wrote:So is GW actually trying to sell products to people over the age of 14? Unless you know a lot of teenagers who have ipads.

Making it iOS only sucks. I could stand it being Mac OS, but I don't have an ipad or iphone. I have a PC and like 4 macs.

Luckily PDF's of every codex are out on torrents in about a month after release. That will have to suffice for now... if only Model Masterclass 2 had a pdf!!!

I don't know a single child from age 10 to 17 who *DOESN'T* have an iPhone.

I do like that the pirates are ready to defraud and steal from GW the first chance they get which shows people never intended to buy the electronic versions in the first place. They just wanted GW to go electronic so they would have better pirated materials.

I think publishing via iBooks is a great way to provide electronic media to people while protecting the artist's right to profit from their media and not have it stolen.

1. I'm guessing you live in CA if 10 year olds have iphones.

2. If GW released proper PDF's at a reasonable price(the same price as a hard copy is not reasonable to me) then I'd gladly pay for them as I needed them. Especially Forge World books.

3. The only PDF I have that is crap quality is Blood in the Badlands, which was sold out before I had a chance to buy it. I'd buy it today if they sold it, but they don't. That was their decision, not mine.

4. I like having PDF's even of books that I own physical copies of because it is often easier to browse while I'm working on Army Builder and what not. Also I can zoom in on pics if the resolution is good enough.

This is a great thing and I hope it's a sign of many more great things to come. Well done GW.

Aerethan wrote:
1. I'm guessing you live in CA if 10 year olds have iphones.

2. If GW released proper PDF's at a reasonable price(the same price as a hard copy is not reasonable to me) then I'd gladly pay for them as I needed them. Especially Forge World books.

3. The only PDF I have that is crap quality is Blood in the Badlands, which was sold out before I had a chance to buy it. I'd buy it today if they sold it, but they don't. That was their decision, not mine.

4. I like having PDF's even of books that I own physical copies of because it is often easier to browse while I'm working on Army Builder and what not. Also I can zoom in on pics if the resolution is good enough.

If it were just a PDF of the codex file I'd agree with you, but from the video it doesn't look to be anything like that.

The ability to click on the name of a special rule and have the rule text pop up without having to jump around pages to find that rule is fantastic.

Everything the video shows is that this digital version is far superior to the print version, so IMHO, it is worth as much as the print version to me.

Just when I thought I had spent all my money, now I want to buy an ipad.

At least I can wait until I see what codex is next and things like updates. Not saying I am against buying the codex again in the next edition, would be nice if there was some sort of... discount, which is wishlisting.

I cannot find it on any store on my ipad

All I see is the scroll of binding one,no others.
Is there a keyword I need to type in?

Having the option of updated codex app?, not bad but redundant, as i can find digitalized codexes since...Adobereader exists...for free, and usable with my Android Arnova pad...

Giving money for a GW product, yeah maybe..., giving money to Apple?, are you out of your freaking mind?!!!

Just gonna wait till someone makes a Android version of it...

Alright this is bugging me where the hell is it?

Hmmm... I have the New iPad, but I honestly like books better. I'm very curious, but I hate the idea of paying for an intangible object.

If you are like me with limited space it is a godsend.
My books tooks up 3 giant boxes,but I get what your saying
I hate paying for zeros and ones too.

I found the codex the GW facebook page has a link,it is going to take ibooks a day or two to get them all up there.

Which makes no f'ing sense if you have one up,have them all

Darn you GW, I am still mad at you for the price raise and then you pull this awesomeness.........

I'm currently downloading it.
I like the idea, now if, when the 6th ed codex comes out, they update this one, that'll be fantastic (unlikely, but we can hope.)
I think this is a great step.
I understand why they went for iOs, only having to account for one platform makes designing easy.
A good move by GW I think.
Hopefully all codecies (and rulebooks) will be coming out this way.

marv335 wrote:
I like the idea, now if, when the 6th ed codex comes out, they update this one, that'll be fantastic (unlikely, but we can hope.)

Yea, worst case scenario they do update it but the only thing that happens is a Text Box that says "This is an obsolete product, please buy the new one!"

The Space Marine book is $44.99 in australia. Thats $10 cheaper then buying a hardcopy version. Im really happy about this. I have an iPad, and this will save me carrying around 5+ books. Im also hoping White Dwarf gets a digital release as well, imagine just getting a monthly email with all the updates, news etc. That would be awesome

I've got it now.
It's good. It's very good.
For example, I've just been looking at the Storm Talon entry.
So I went to the Armoury.
Click on the entry, it comes up. Click on a rule and it comes up in a box. Same for weapons or anything else (click on the word "twin-linked" and the rules for twin-linked weapons appears)
There is also a link to take you to the entry in the army list.
This appears to have been done very well.
It's expensive, yes, but at this point I'm not sure it's not worth it.
If nothing else it's a positive step.

This is a terrific idea and I can't believe they actually developed it.

Now, allow me to construct an army list from the codex and bluetooth it to my opponent!

If your trying to find it, just search for 'codex' in iBooks on your iPad.

Great stuff. Very good to see.

For those of you asking about scrolls, this is from GW. "Scrolls of Binding. Full rules for use in your Warhammer Storm of Magic battles. This month we present them for the Jabberslythe, Thundertusk, Stonehorn and Mournfang packs, as well as exclusive Scrolls of Binding for Terradons and the Great Cave Squig"

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a

Boo! Storm of Magic! Give us WHFB books!

Either way, fantastic move. I'm in love. Knew this would happen.

And to all the miserly detractors: Relax. Pardon GW for not releasing every single book onto every single platform known to man, jerks.

A first step, and a great one at that.

I have this thing, called a Kindle Fire, and these other things, called PDFs, and I interact with them by reading them.

Only thing available in the US store is the Cave Squig. Looks like no other books are up yet.

It's a nice step in the right direction. Even if I had an iPad I'd probably be happier just to use a hard copy, but it's cool they're providing the option. Definitely one of the few genuine 21st century moves I've seen GW make.

This is a damn fine move, especially if they use the platform to maintain and update the codexs over the years... well done GW!

While this looks like an excellently developed iBooks product, I DO really wish that they would simply make available the PDF of their rulebooks. This could be done as well, rather than instead of, these applications. I am a certified (or certifiable) Mac fanboy, and own an iPad, an iPhone, and a Macbook, but quite often, I don't want all the bells and whistles. I want to read pages of text. I don't consistently need 360° spinarounds, or pop-ups of the rules (not that either of these is bad). I want to look at the pages of the book, and I'd like those pages presented electronically.

Really, when you get the Space Marine codex, you're going to spin around all the models, and look at all the color schemes, and interact with all this stuff, because, face it, it's cool. Over the next few years that you use that Codex (or with this one, over the next what, two months?), how many more times are you gonna go for a spinning view of a Land Speeder? If I need a 360° view, I'll go to GW's web site, honestly.

GW has an opportunity to have some value added to their print products, if they just wise up. While piracy is always an issue (not nearly as big as corporations make it out to be, but I digress), GW could do something clever like offer a PDF version of each codex for free when you buy a print codex. The other thing they could offer, especially if they sold PDF codices through a major vendor like Apple or something, was a 'update service' with a subscription to White Dwarf. If you are a registered purchaser of a digital codex, and an active White Dwarf subscriber, you could be allowed to download new versions of the codex as errata and faq are issued. I'm not talking about buying one edition of Codex Space Marine and getting the next edition for free, but simply always being able to download the most recent, most corrected edition of your own books for free, instead of monitoring and saving Errata documents when issued.

I say a lot of this because I'm a long-term subscriber to National Geographic (long term like 35 years), and now I get the iPad edition free with my print subscription. While the rotational views, and movies, and sounds, are cool, I find them distracting from my actual pleasure in READING National Geographic. In addition, the excess of navigation (swipe vertically to move through the text, swipe horizontally to move from text to image, swipe across some images to interact with them, etc.) to be distracting. Maybe I'm an old codger, and younger people will always feel comfortable navigating in a 'space' like this, but it seems to smack much more of 'showing off' the technology than actually creating more content.

Da Butcha wrote:While this looks like an excellently developed iBooks product, I DO really wish that they would simply make available the PDF of their rulebooks.

Hmm while having a PDF would be cheaper, GW wouldnt have much profit to make. From a business standpoint why would they?

One thing though, a point that benefits the customer is this. We get something at the same price or lower as the print codex, but we get many USEFUL features that work around some of the pains of print books (ie. searchable text, hot key words for rules that you can get the rule by touching it, bookmarking, linkable indexes etc etc). Right now the 360s may seem trivial but this is just the beginning. There are many practical improvements to simple books or pdfs.

What if in the rulebook, there was video that showed how a rule worked in an actual game instead of the crappy illustrations that feebly try to explain it. What if FAQs actually showed gameplay to make it , literally, as clear as possible to understand a rule by showing it in a game. For guides, what if it had a lot of video to show how painting techniques work.

There is some SERIOUS potential with these interactive books and as this new medium develops, the features will only grow and grow. PDFs will always be just... PDFs.

Wow, just downloaded the space marine codex and its great, i mean seriously, it was pricey, but worth it!

kbdrand wrote:Only thing available in the US store is the Cave Squig. Looks like no other books are up yet.

Click on the book and then go to the author page, it has all the WHFB stuff and only the space marine codex, no how to paint ultramarines or the mission...

The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

Take black library, on the first of every month, the torrent sites are full of the new releases in the original ebook format, 1 month before they are released in stores. All these people say that they would buy a pdf for $$, but when GW releases one, they'll download off a torrent site in 30 seconds.

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

And the first week after a book comes out, it'll get scanned and swapped on /tg/. Whats your point?

kenshin620 wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

And the first week after a book comes out, it'll get scanned and swapped on /tg/. Whats your point?

Because if GW releases a PDF, it will be available to use in stores without GW knowing if it was bought or pirated. By not releasing a PDF, they can govern who has bought a codex because you have to have the physical copy.

Hell, if they released codex on pdf's I would not buy a codex again and have everything on my tablet. Without any store owner knowing if it was pirated or bought.

Also a scanned copy is no where near the quality as a professional PDF that is searchable.

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

kbdrand wrote:Only thing available in the US store is the Cave Squig. Looks like no other books are up yet.

It's up. Plus, you can download a free sample to check out how it looks. Gotta say, I like it . I can see how useful this can be for new players, but it's not for me since I already have most of the rules memorized already.

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

Liquidice281 wrote:

Because if GW releases a PDF, it will be available to use in stores without GW knowing if it was bought or pirated. By not releasing a PDF, they can govern who has bought a codex because you have to have the physical copy.

Hell, if they released codex on pdf's I would not buy a codex again and have everything on my tablet. Without any store owner knowing if it was pirated or bought.

Also a scanned copy is no where near the quality as a professional PDF that is searchable.

You actually have to have the book with you to play?

Not saying I do this and I'm not saying I endorse piracy but I would think a smart pirate will use PDFs at home to learn the rules and build lists, and if at a store there is a rule dispute they could ask a store manager for the store open copy of the book to show their opponents. Assuming there is a open store copy of course

Cyporiean wrote:
If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

1. Its GW
2. Its an Ebook

If they ever get cheaper, then GW must have gotten some huge chain of command shift

AT wrote:That's a common approach. I've been developing a few mobile/tablet apps at work, and we normally start with iOS. Biggest marketshare, yadda yadda. If things work out, we target the more fragmented platforms later.

Yeah, you don't start out with something like this by trying to make it compatible across all OS. You pick the most common one and go with it, and maybe expand to the others later.

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

SOME people will. Others will never pay, no matter the price.

It like with music. If i were to be a criminal and pirate all of my music (:/) which im not saying i do , id still fork out for the awesome songs and id definitely pay for the higher wav quality instead of 320kps youtube rips.

All hypothetical obv....

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

I've seen our sales figures, and I am on /tg/ daily. Price can beat Piracy.


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kenshin620 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:
If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

1. Its GW
2. Its an Ebook

If they ever get cheaper, then GW must have gotten some huge chain of command shift

Yeah, I'm not saying that GW would ever be smart enough to do that, but it does work.

I will say this now, its a HELL of a lot easier just to buy something.

Saves on searching for the proper quality.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:I will say this now, its a HELL of a lot easier just to buy something.

Saves on searching for the proper quality.

Also, your much less likely to end up with Bunnies and Burrows

Vitruvian XVII wrote:I will say this now, its a HELL of a lot easier just to buy something.

Saves on searching for the proper quality.

Well the point is that if GW releases proper searchable high quality PDFs, any internet competent guy could download in less than 3 minutes by using the googles. The lower quality ones would not even be on the internets anymore if the HQ ones come out

This is true, i guess it entirely depends on the price point.

Id probably pay no more than $15.

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

I've seen our sales figures, and I am on /tg/ daily. Price can beat Piracy.

Price is not the only thing that beats Piracy, interacting with your customers, giving them extra stuff and basically rewarding them for buying stuff helps as well. A different mindsale helps as well because not every pirated copy = a lost sale.

I think you have the benefit of being small as well, so I think that helps you as well. It is easier to give money to a real person than a faceless corporation.

One of the guys on Dakka sells a book (the punishment of the dice gods one) and I am sure it would be easy enough to scan and trade it. But it looks like he adds a custom drawing to every one you buy. So that is added value and an incentive not to pirate. On-The-Lamb Games seems very interactive and responsive to your customers, and that is an added value as well and makes it more likely for people to spend actual money on the products.

And it seems that companies like Infinity realize that they are a minature model company first (an excuse that GW uses often for their loose rules). So it seems like the main purpose of the rules is to get people to buy their models, and as such they make their books cheap (or free) because even a pirated book still leads to sales of minis.

You don't get people to buy your product by making it imposible to pirate. You get people to buy your product by making them feel like they are getting something of value for their money.

I may have ranted a bit so the tl;dr version is this:

I think you guys are doing a great job realizing that piracy is not just a consumer problem, it is a provider problem and you give people something that they feel is worth their investment and their support.

I think you guys are doing a great job realizing that piracy is not just a consumer problem, it is a provider problem and you give people something that they feel is worth their investment and their support.

Great post. This is why i buy an Ebook version of almost every black library book and then buy the paper copies a month later, because it supports the amazing authors. But when GW has constantly turned it's back to it's customers, it loses any sympathy for the company.

To be honest, I love that GW has spent the time and money to develop the iPad version of books. However, charging $40 for an ebook will not sale well, and I'm confident they will not make enough profit to continue to release the rest of the codexs.

Kicking and screaming they enter the 21st Century. Amazing!

The interactivity on the file looks pretty awesome. I like the way you can scroll shoulder pad designs in the artwork sections, how you can highlight a rule to bring it up, even weapon profiles. The 3D spinny image is also really smooth. Shows real thought going into the design.

His Master's Voice wrote:Still, limiting it to ios systems rules me out.

Well it wouldn't be GW if they didn't do something wrong!!!

MajorTom11 wrote: ... especially if they use the platform to maintain and update the codexs over the years...

Whoa! Whoa Tom! Baby steps, ok?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Kicking and screaming they enter the 21st Century. Amazing!

The interactivity on the file looks pretty awesome.

The interactivity is what's making me consider it if they ever release it for android tablets. The ability to add notes is awesome. I could actually add notes relating to FAQ updates so I don't need to carry the FAQ around as well.

d-usa wrote:

Price is not the only thing that beats Piracy, interacting with your customers, giving them extra stuff and basically rewarding them for buying stuff helps as well. A different mindsale helps as well because not every pirated copy = a lost sale.

This, there is a concerted effort by some parties to vastly exaggerate the econimic cost of piracy by pretending that all downloads equal a lost sale.

If GW were to release .pdfs for each codex/army book etc then the only noticable difference to pirated versions is that they will be better quality and availiable a few days earlier. In fact it would probably reduce piracy levels as a lot of people want electronic codices for ease of storage and use and currently have no legitimate way of obtaining them.

This is a good move by GW, although soured by the high price and limited availability. At least someone at GW appears to have noticed the digital economy at long last.

As per usual with GW, it's give with one hand, take with the other. It's good that they are starting recognise the digital world a bit more and it's good that they also recognise that said digital copies can add a bit more jazz to a text format. However, it's not so good that they think a digital copy should cost anything like as much as a hard copy. £25 for a digital codex is ridiculously expensive IMO.

this is good news for australia.. we will be paying 30 dollars for our codex now to match the GBP! seeing as the ap store is global instead of the rediculous 59 dollars they are in store

Why Apple? God damn it they suck ballz... I dont even know anyone with one... This sucks gives us an android or even PC PDF or something for gods sake!

Don't post things like this on Dakka.

Product itself looks good (I like the fact they've included things like the Stormtalon)

Relatively high cost, and the fact they've locked into Apple? irritating as all hell.

PDFs for me, thanks, they can sit alongside all those lovely FFG ones

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

If your premiss were true, then GW would already not be making any money off of their codex releases or black library books because 'everyone' simply pirates them. This simply isn't true. There will always be those who pirate books/music/video/etc. but they represent a small percentage of the overall users of the medium. How many people do you know that use pdfs instead of books where you play? Probably very few. I'm the only one I know that does it, and I have hard copies of every book I have a pdf for. So the idea that most people would pirate their codexes simply isn't true, or they already would be doing it.

Pretty awesome (and surprising) to see this. I don't own the devices that would make use of this, but think its a great step in the right direction, and one which I applaud.

Oh tihs is gak!!! I HATE! ios. I would rather have my ASUS Transformer over ANY ios POS there is out there!

This is an outrage.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer.

Great move by GW, if you ask me.

Sat reading this on my Motorola Xoom and thinking screw you apple, gw please pay attention and release on Google's play store, I'll even pay for it.
Until then I'll have to wait for a pirated cracked copy.

It's certainly making me glad I jumped ship from android to iOS.
iOs just works, so I'll be sticking to my iPad. Doubly so now

So I guess if I'm not going to have any sort of ebook reader in the next few years then I'm S.O.L? Or do people think a generic Windows/Mac OS/Linux digital release is going to happen?

Meh. No matter how great GW's new digital products are, if they're only available on platforms that I don't (and won't) have access to, then I guess they won't get my money.

Still, I'm tentatively excited that maybe this is a sign of better policies to come, though I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Excellent move and by all accounts, so far an excellent product.

I would never begrudge GW for releasing on iOS only. Why not? It's the largest market share by a feth ton and will reach a helluva lot more people than releasing on any other platform. As far as I reckon, they'll be testing the water with this and then expanding beyond onto other platforms.

helium42 wrote:If your premiss were true, then GW would already not be making any money off of their codex releases or black library books because 'everyone' simply pirates them. This simply isn't true. There will always be those who pirate books/music/video/etc. but they represent a small percentage of the overall users of the medium. How many people do you know that use pdfs instead of books where you play? Probably very few. I'm the only one I know that does it, and I have hard copies of every book I have a pdf for. So the idea that most people would pirate their codexes simply isn't true, or they already would be doing it.

Point being that there are no sanctioned GW PDFs. So no one could use them in GW stores. And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game. And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

If it was standard practice to refer to a PDF on a mobile device instead of a paper book, then the rate of piracy would be much higher.

So the good thing about this is you wont need the rule book when playing as your army particular rules will be on hand.

Also is it not possible to access ebooks through itunes on the PC so that PC users can still have access. and with the use of icloud i think you will be able to have it on your ipad and your PC.

spaceXjam wrote:this is good news for australia.. we will be paying 30 dollars for our codex now to match the GBP! seeing as the ap store is global instead of the rediculous 59 dollars they are in store

I'm sure they'll find a way to charge us shipping.


And I don't see piracy as an issue. I could download every 40K RPG book FFG makes - I know where to get them. It's not hard. I own every one in hard-cover though and better yet I like having the physical book. And I even own some of the ones I own in hard cover in PDF as well, bought from Drive-Thru RPG.

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

Kaldor wrote:And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure that's a made up problem, especially when you consider just how many companies are doing PDF rules these days.

Depends, remember there is currently that investigation concerning how we are over charged for digital media. Or has that finished in our favour?

Honestly it seems like a good move, not to be picky though but a more simplistic approach of releasing PDFs of the codices would be both cheaper and easier than producing something like this. But, it is a step in the right direction none the less.

Now lets see how they screw it up.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

Kaldor wrote:And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure that's a made up problem, especially when you consider just how many companies are doing PDF rules these days.

Computers are heavy.

This doesn't even show the 8" black and green screen the stats are shown on.

n0t_u wrote:Depends, remember there is currently that investigation concerning how we are over charged for digital media. Or has that finished in our favour?

Only just begun. The submission period ended June 1st.

Maybe I'm a pessimist. But I see this as a short lived product line.
GW never stays the course long enough to affect every army.

Any one else remember their Army List product? And how accurate and up-to-date it was kept?

I can see the Codex: SM being out of date as soon as 6th ed drops.
It may have a shelf life of a year before new C:SM comes out.
The book has already been out the length of 5th, how much longer will they give it?

And the price.... is this electronic one up there with the Hard back WHFB Army Books price?
A harbinger of the Codex prices for 6th ed?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure that's a made up problem, especially when you consider just how many companies are doing PDF rules these days.

Whatever, son.

Anyone notice the stormtalon in there? If these codices get updated regularly with the FAQ rulings and such... well then money well spent. I have an iPad, I will buy this, everyone else do what you will.

What's cool is that they are doing something new. Sorry to hear it rustles so many jimmies that its not on a wider platform, I'm just glad they got around to it. And I'll be happy to have a rulebook where I can search for rules and stats rather than fumbling around. Memorizing is great when its my codex, but now I can get copies of every codex if I choose to. More please.

So...let's see...

Locked into one set manufacturer, sodding the rest right off.

And releaseing 'digital only' gak?

That can sod right off. I want the Terradon scrolls of binding but I'm not buying a sodding iPad and then their sodding product just for one thing.

That actually looked pretty cool, considering I was expecting a basic pdf upload of the current codex.

Nice to see this. Interesting that it's ibook only but I'm not surprised as it stops people 'sharing' their e-copies. I can't see them ever doing a straight pdf copy. I'll be interested to see if 6th ed ships this way right out of the gate. I think exclusive scrolls are a daft idea, they should turn up in WD first then here. I also wonder how long before we can get WD on the Apple newstand app. I'd subscribe for that.

iOS, really?

Start somewhere, anywhere, but not there.

GW may be money grubbing, customer-unfriendly and blessed with an inflated sense of their own importance, but they're charitable, humble saints compared with Apple.

A nice move I suppose, but I prefer my codex not to require overnight charging.

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

That's true in some cases - a friend of mine pirated the 'pay what you want' Radiohead album, despite it being available for download officially for $0.01!

Great to see GW finally doing this, better late than never and all that!

But being a moaning git, I can always spot something to moan about, and in this case; the price. Seriously, why does going anywhere near GW always feel like I am having a groin thrust repeatedly in my face with someone saying "you, like that, huh? Say you like it you female dog!"

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

Ever heard of this little thing called Steam? It has proven beyond doubt that convenience coupled with a fair price will make honest men out of... I don't know how many people, exactly, but certainly enough to make it very profitable. I personally don't know anyone who still pirates games.Heck, we retroactively pay for games we finished years ago, with no intention of playing them again.

lord_blackfang wrote:Ever heard of this little thing called Steam? It has proven beyond doubt that convenience coupled with a fair price will make honest men out of... I don't know how many people, exactly, but certainly enough to make it very profitable. I personally don't know anyone who still pirates games.Heck, we retroactively pay for games we finished years ago, with no intention of playing them again.

Intersting analogy with Steam as they sometimes give pre-order exclusives or steam exclusives. I wonder how people would react if the eversion contained an extra IC or two from the Black Library novels. For example would people pay £4.99 for the stat blocks for Talos and his company from the Nightlords books? On pricing, how much is Apple's cut?

lord_blackfang wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

Ever heard of this little thing called Steam? It has proven beyond doubt that convenience coupled with a fair price will make honest men out of... I don't know how many people, exactly, but certainly enough to make it very profitable. I personally don't know anyone who still pirates games.Heck, we retroactively pay for games we finished years ago, with no intention of playing them again.

Interesting choice for comparison; Steam is pretty much the Marmite of digital distribution platforms, people either love it or loathe it and I know there are plenty of communities that pirate games just to avoid having to use Steam.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Liquidice281 wrote:The problem with releasing PDF's and ebook files is that the first minute it become available, it will be on the internet for everyone to pirate.

If its cheap enough, people will buy rather then pirate.

I do not believe that at all. Even if the codex cost $5, most people would spend 1 minute to pirate it for free. You have way to much faith in humanity. Why buy every codex pdf for $$ when you can download every pdf in one download for free?

Ever heard of this little thing called Steam? It has proven beyond doubt that convenience coupled with a fair price will make honest men out of... I don't know how many people, exactly, but certainly enough to make it very profitable. I personally don't know anyone who still pirates games.Heck, we retroactively pay for games we finished years ago, with no intention of playing them again.

Games are a separate issue though due to the compatibility and ease of use issues. Finding cracks and patches for old games that I've lost the activation keys for is a true nightmare. There's no such drama with music, PDFs and movies.

I'm going to assume, without researching it, that you can get these to work on a Windows PC/Laptop. Then I'm going to assume that the dex will be pirated within the next day or two.

EDIT: Quick little search shows how to remove Apple DRM. My little netbook just found a second wind!

Milisim wrote:Why Apple? God damn it they suck ballz... I dont even know anyone with one... This sucks gives us an android or even PC PDF or something for gods sake!

GW aspires to be like Apple. They are trying to keep their releases secret, and over charge for their products. If only they were under investigation by the government for collusion and price fixing then they would be a winner.

All of this being said, I think this releasing these files for the iOS is a better move than not selling any digital files.

Well, once again, it is not an iTunes only PDF. It's not a PDF at all. It's not a matter of Apple DRM really, it is a matter of being written in a format that relies on iOS to make it interactive and usable.

To use the digital media is one thing I welcome , to imagine the possibility of everything with a price tag not so much.
What happens to the codices on the shelf if they are available as i-book? Left behind?

kenshin620 wrote:Scrolls of binding....

I am suddenly reminded of those small DLC weapon packs for video games

Bloodwin wrote: I wonder how people would react if the eversion contained an extra IC or two from the Black Library novels. For example would people pay £4.99 for the stat blocks for Talos and his company from the Nightlords books?

Nooo

Please no DLC nonsense.

FAQ's and datasheets for free isn't perfect to keep the physical copies up to date , still preferrable against the choice of digital copies plus DLC just to be able to field something on the tabletop. As additional luxury product those i-books are worth it.

The first codex with the IoS treatment may be not in line for a 6th ed release, maybe?
Because there aren't rumors of codex SM at all, so this move to a new format could keep the codex updated without a new release for some time.

Who knows, this could also give GW a month to iron out the kinks and maybe release a 6th Ed digital rulebook.

Wow, it's a cold day in hell.

Much props to GWS for not only doing it, but doing it right. I have no quibble about it going IOS only (even though I have not a single apple device) because you know perfectly well it won't stay that way and it's super common for apps to start on IOS and then be ported to Android.

No book using iBooks2 features has yet been ported to Android, and they started coming out in january.

My thoughts:

- I think it's a great step forward, and opens up a lot of potential. I'm actually pleasantly impressed and surprised by GW for a change.

- I really hope they move to other formats as many (myself included) will not be trading in our nook/kindle/etc for an ipad anytime soon.

- It would be nice if they offered a cheaper version that didn't have all the fancy indexing and features. I use PDFs for all of the books that aren't for an army I own, hard copies for the stuff I do own and I'd be quite happy to pay hardcopy equivilent prices for an indexed codex/armybook/BRB with rule pop ups, etc.$10-15 for clean scans and a basic index for the stuff I don't.

EDIT:

- Also, I'm cool with the idea of DLC content, as long as it's available to those without access to the digital version (through White Dwarf for an example).

Cryonicleech wrote:Boo! Storm of Magic! Give us WHFB books!

Either way, fantastic move. I'm in love. Knew this would happen.

And to all the miserly detractors: Relax. Pardon GW for not releasing every single book onto every single platform known to man, jerks.

A first step, and a great one at that.

Oh. So people who is not impressed by these release are miserly and jerks. But you, calling people names, are doing the things right. Especially when I justified my answer, and you didn't, you just said it's cool. Yeah, tell me more ^^

AHAHAHAHA! £25 for the codex in digital format? Looks like GW are trying to mug people off again.

MetalOxide wrote:AHAHAHAHA! £25 for the codex in digital format? Looks like GW are trying to mug people off again.

To be fair, the app is more than just the codex. Not much more, but something more.

Erasoketa wrote:

MetalOxide wrote:AHAHAHAHA! £25 for the codex in digital format? Looks like GW are trying to mug people off again.

To be fair, the app is more than just the codex. Not much more, but something more.

Is there some sort of army builder functionality incorporated? If not, I'm afraid the price is still too high.

It's £25 for the same codex but with some 360 interactive photos of models after looking at the video of it. Rip off either way, it should cost £10 maximum as there are no huge printing or shipping costs involved.

Breotan wrote:Is there some sort of army builder functionality incorporated? If not, I'm afraid the price is still too high.

AFAIK no, there isn't. But I haven't downloaded it and I'm not going to. Probably by the same reason than you. It's 25 pounds for an editing work in material that we already have in the rulebook, in the codex, and in the website.

In some respects, it is quite a bold move for GW (and very unlike them in that respect as they don't often take risks as a corporate entity) because the move into digital formats is not the no-brainer that people make it out to be. Your average novels are cheap enough that people will have no qualms about buying both a physical copy and a digital copy to read on the plane or what have you. A 40K codex is a different beast entirely; GW have to be certain that both the time and money that they invest into both the infrastructure and resources required to produce these digital copies is paid off by people buying them. The key question to be asked is will having a digital codex available drive more sales? I'm not so sure; at the price it is listed at, I can see people choosing either a hard copy or a digital copy but very few will buy both. So are GW going to be increasing their sales or are they going to be simply shifting a portion of their sales from hard copy to digital? Time will tell I guess. Personally speaking, I wouldn't buy a digital copy but that's because I much prefer hard copies. I certainly wouldn't buy both either but again, that's my preference - other people might see it as a worthwhile investment.

Well, but GW is not a newcomer to the digital world, actually. Black Library has been selling e-books and mp3 downloads for - two years, maybe? And the pricing of that material is lower than this app.

I would start investing in these solely from now on.... if it were on android. Imagine if everything was updated with erratas and faqs. any faq that pertained to that rule was built in? Or everything that is going to change with 6th all built in to your tablet? hell yea

I'm still surprised that people are surprised about the price. Its not like people have been complaining about ebook prices for what, years now?

Charax wrote:No book using iBooks2 features has yet been ported to Android, and they started coming out in january.

Excellent point on this being on ibooks so far. Ebooks are a bit more complicated when it comes to these type of books compared to just blocks of text

Sadly,I cant see the iBookstore page.
May be region based restriction?

Good move.

iOS is an easy start. Now get to real work.

25 gbp for a codex? Why not buy the original: pay less and avoid DRM.

A good idea, but poor in the execution.

<insert Finecast joke here>

biccat wrote:25 gbp for a codex? Why not buy the original: pay less and avoid DRM.

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not an iphone type of guy, but is DRM ever an issue for ipad stuff?

kenshin620 wrote:

biccat wrote:25 gbp for a codex? Why not buy the original: pay less and avoid DRM.

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not an iphone type of guy, but is DRM ever an issue for ipad stuff?

Only if you don't want to use it on an iPad.

I just checked the iTunes store.....it's $50 for me in Canada.

Sorry but it would be hysterically stupid for me to buy an ebook for that much.

Can anyone post the price for the Codex: Space Marines from the US iTunes Store. I don't currently have access to iTunes and my iPhone is claiming it can't read books. Sigh.

Also, not to be an apologist, but add the price of the physcial codex to the price of the Stormtalon rules White Dwarf and it's not like most of us haven't already paid "more" for the physical codex anyways.

If I had a PDF copy of a codex I owned I think I would rather just add my own indexes and stick it on my kindle...

People comparing it simply to a PDF really should watch the video.

If all you want is a PDf to flick through, you'll obviously balk at the price tag. But a lot of effort went into this. Watching him open the colour section of the fluff, go to the Ultramarine page, then flick through just different shoulder pads and helmet artwork, then go to the full colour model area, and bring up a 360 view of the Storm Talon, was pretty awesome. There's a huge amount of interactivity in these.

I'm not happy about them being iPad only. I'm likely getting a Galaxy tab. But if they did these on android, I'd take one over a physical book any day. And this is from someone who prefers books due to massive headaches from reading on a screen. It was a really impressive demonstration.

Kriswall wrote:Can anyone post the price for the Codex: Space Marines from the US iTunes Store. I don't currently have access to iTunes and my iPhone is claiming it can't read books. Sigh.

Also, not to be an apologist, but add the price of the physcial codex to the price of the Stormtalon rules White Dwarf and it's not like most of us haven't already paid "more" for the physical codex anyways.

$41.99

Lies! GW would never do anything as practical as this!

Talk about mixed emotions... My initial thought was like many of you, "holy crap, hell froze over!" I was giving GW kudos for turning a page and finding themselves in the 21st century. The product looks awesome, it has updates included. I can get behind this...

Then I saw the price, $41.99 USD. Wait, didn't I pay like $22 for my copy at discount from an online supplier? So this is almost twice the practical price, no discount available (Apple takes 30% off the top if the Appstore model applies to iBooks also). Factoring in everything, this is a lot cheaper to produce (even factoring in the additional work to migrate the content to the apple publishing tool).

So, will I pay $42 for this book? Not unless I get a guarantee that the product will get free updates for a period of at least the next 6-8 years.

A good idea from GW, why I never?!

Though it's a mix bag, as while Nerds are A.) Tech-savy, they also seem to be B.) Anti-apple

Does this mean their's expected to be a decent amount of life in Codex: Space Marines after 6th hits?

-Loki- wrote:People comparing it simply to a PDF really should watch the video.

Bring up a 360 view of the Storm Talon, was pretty awesome. It was a really impressive demonstration.

Yeah, it's not like I can go to the GW website for free on any device and see a 360 view of the Storm Talon and other models. Oh, wait... I can.

Kaldor wrote:

helium42 wrote:If your premiss were true, then GW would already not be making any money off of their codex releases or black library books because 'everyone' simply pirates them. This simply isn't true. There will always be those who pirate books/music/video/etc. but they represent a small percentage of the overall users of the medium. How many people do you know that use pdfs instead of books where you play? Probably very few. I'm the only one I know that does it, and I have hard copies of every book I have a pdf for. So the idea that most people would pirate their codexes simply isn't true, or they already would be doing it.

Point being that there are no sanctioned GW PDFs. So no one could use them in GW stores. And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game. And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

Only a fraction of the player base plays in GW stores. At my FLGS RPGers have used digital media for years now, basically since Paizo released Pathfinder and made it digital copy friendly. I don't see any others bringing ebook codexes in beside myself but I'm sure that this will change in the near future, especially if GW expands the platforms they offer their ebooks on and continues supporting them (unlike their army builder software that they released and never updated).

If it was standard practice to refer to a PDF on a mobile device instead of a paper book, then the rate of piracy would be much higher.

I disagree here as well. My example will be the iPod, or any other mp3 player. The iPod, and iTunes, arrived on the scene during the height of digital theft of music (remember Napster?). Think about all of the people you know and how many have an iPod or other mp3 player. The mp3 player is pretty much the standard way to listen to music. You take it with you everywhere you go, plug it into a speaker system at home, plug it into your car stereo on the road, and use headphones with it anywhere else. Music sales have skyrocketed because most people purchase their mp3s legally at the iTunes store or other digital music stores.

There will always be a certain number of people who pirate music/videos/games/books, but if the music industry is any indication, the vast majority will legally purchase their ebooks from an ebook store.

And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Does your laptop weigh more or take up more space than a backpack full of books?

I also wanted to touch on the argument that people are afraid that other will alter the text of their PDFs in order to gain an advantage. This sounds like a load of gak. If you are playing in an FLGS, you'll have a hardcopy of the books on hand to reference if you think something funny is going on. And who is going to risk getting called out as a cheater and likely not be welcome within their gaming group for doing such a thing?

-Loki- wrote:People comparing it simply to a PDF really should watch the video.

If all you want is a PDf to flick through, you'll obviously balk at the price tag. But a lot of effort went into this. Watching him open the colour section of the fluff, go to the Ultramarine page, then flick through just different shoulder pads and helmet artwork, then go to the full colour model area, and bring up a 360 view of the Storm Talon, was pretty awesome. There's a huge amount of interactivity in these.

I'm not happy about them being iPad only. I'm likely getting a Galaxy tab. But if they did these on android, I'd take one over a physical book any day. And this is from someone who prefers books due to massive headaches from reading on a screen. It was a really impressive demonstration.

No arguments about what's included, but I do have to ask what it adds?
What extra value is there having spinning pictures of models in with your rules?
And interactive galleries? The current codex is interactive, I can turn the pages; and I don't have to worry about smudges or fingerprints obscuring my view, or having to re-charge it overnight.
The links to the rules from one section to another are nice, but hardly worth the extra cost.
If it had a price tag of £10, was a new codex rather than one I have already and was available on something other than Apple, I might be tempted.

I looked at the free sample, and it was pretty cool. The price is a bit steep though. I understand the e-books are not free. Even though you aren't paying for the printer, you are still paying for the writers/editors/etc. And for something like this over a PDF, I'm guessing a good number of computer guys to bring it to life. I've been known to thumb through my old codexes looking at the pictures for ideas, so I think there is value in all the 360s and such. The linking of rules to glossaries is a VERY nice feature, considering how scattered rules and stats are. I was a little disappointed that (in the sample at least) the link for Independent Character just popped up a page ref in the main book.

Besides the price, the other make-or-break issue is support. If every time they publish FAQs or new units in White Dwarf the e-book gets updated it would be worth it. I'm not a huge fan of buying WD for half a page of rules, and then having to drag that around, or having printouts crammed in the back of my codex. With the price of WD these days, it wouldn't take many new units or extras to justify the price of the e-book.

The other big support question is how it works with 6th ed when it releases. If it auto-magicaly updates with all the new rules tweaks, that goes a long way to justifying it's cost. But at this point I'm not dropping cash on a rulebook that might be obsolete in a month.

I think this is great! Looks nice, on a nice platform and all... will never spend that kind of money on a ebook.

I thought that this was the price the paper versions of all the codexes were going to anyway... I've also noticed that rules like ATSKNF is not just a copy and paste from the codex, its updated and specifically says you get the 3" move in addition to moving normally.

I do agree that if it doesn't update with new FAQs that it wouldn't be all that worth it. But if it does (and this is the new price of the paper codex) then I find it VERY worth it.

Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

It is getting reamed in the reviews on iTunes, mainly over the cost. Right now it is sitting on 76 reviews and an average of 1.5 stars out of 5.

You pay VAT on ebooks, with that currently sitting at 20% that makes the base price £20.83.

Nagashek wrote:Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

There are six pages talking about how they cost $42.

helium42 wrote:It is getting reamed in the reviews on iTunes, mainly over the cost. Right now it is sitting on 76 reviews and an average of 1.5 stars out of 5.

I can see GW now...

"Egad, the reviews are appalling! We cant let this happen! Shut it all down!"

Cyporiean wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

There are six pages talking about how they cost $42.

Which I now see. I wasn't aware that they were all the same cost, or what books were available, how I would get them, etc, etc, etc. All things that I can't find out if I am a consumer attempting to get more info from GW, if GW is my only source of knowledge. :shrugs: Sorry, I wanted more info and I actually decided to not take internet information at face value for once.

And now I do a search on google and it tells me that without the app, I'm not allowed to know what's available, so that explains that.

I hear that it includes an army builder app anyone know if it does?

choasdwarflord wrote:I hear that it includes an army builder app anyone know if it does?

In the video, they show the user selecting a Dread, adding options and calling it Unit 1. Starting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eI-01ylQ-0k#t=66s

The reason this is on iOS is that Apple made a free authoring tool that is pretty easy to use and does multimedia. Why we do not have readers for Windows/Mac/Linux is a question you have to ask Apple.

This actually sounds and looks quite good.

Ipad only? fail

Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail

Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

Price lowered on a GW product?



That was an excellently executed joke sir.

OT If the book updates when FAQ are put out it will be worth it. Otherwise I see little benefit to this other than it is 1 less book to carry around. If they fail to effectively take advantage of the technology they are now using then what would be the point? I hope they get this one right.

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

Adobe Acrobat X Pro allows you to search a pdf document for certain words just like any website...

Wow, this is a fantastic idea and a great decision. I haven't looked at the preview yet, but if people are correct with the amount of features then GW is making a very smart and very forward thinking move.

For those of you all hating simply because it's iOS, it only makes sense. First off, love or hate Apple, they're the most recognizable and largest media outlook for this format, and consider the user base and functionality... granted I'm not familiar with Android, but with the file for Apple I can: open on my phone, my computer, or my ipad. I don't have an apple computer, but the fact that I have the functionality to browse the media at my leisure, and can potentially go to a store with a codex, rule book, army book, etc... all on one source easily? Yes I'll take that, thank you.

Does the price stink? Yes, but if you look at ibooks (or any digital book for that matter) it's always comparable to the cheapest price the book came out at. Meaning if it's only a hardback, it's going to be more expensive than if it was ever released in paperback. It's the reality of the media.

For those of you who are concerned about buying an intangible product... if you ever spend money online, your entire transaction is intangible, including your money and the receipt. Video game downloads are the same way, DLC content is, as far as I can tell, only released through online sources, etc. It's not a new concept, but one people seem to not realize happens quite often and don't even think twice on the matter.

looks awsome.... hopefully they release other codex and big rule book.


hey.....maybe 6th will come with, or have a digital version???? i already use my ipad for PDF of the codex and rules....getting a real interactive set in stead of scans would just kick serious arse.

I would like to report that there are no flying pigs in my area, yet.

The iBook sample version of the codex is quite nice looking, but it's definitely priced at "Oh my God, they want how much?!?!" GW price levels.

DarthSpader wrote:looks awsome.... hopefully they release other codex and big rule book.


hey.....maybe 6th will come with, or have a digital version???? i already use my ipad for PDF of the codex and rules....getting a real interactive set in stead of scans would just kick serious arse.

So your proving my point that if GW released full high quality searchable PDFs, you would use them instead of buying a hardcopy. Bet when a corporation allows PDFs to be used in stores, it becomes easy for any person to walk in with every codex and rule book illegally downloaded and say that they bought them. This would drastically decrease sales of books. Why would a kid with an allowance spend $40 on a codex when they could download a .pdf from the internet and use the money to buy models, and use the pdf in game stores.

The point is that games workshop cannot police illegally downloaded material if they sell and allow PDFs. Also, any game store that allows players to use pirated versions of rule books and codexs should not be allowed to sell GW product in my opinion. It sets a bad example for younger players, is unethical, and is bad for business.


Also, you cannot compare downloading pdfs to downloading video games via steam. PDFs,movies,books, and tv shows are easily searchable and downloadable on the internet. Computer games on the other hand are hard to pirate, and you lose the ability to download content and play online. With the advent of steam, even the simple use of playing a single player game requires an internet connection to check it's validity.

Its not a PDF though. A straight PDF version would not be color, it would not feature a stormtalon, it wouldn't allow you to click rules to go straight to the entry you would normally flip to. It's paying for convenience and quality. If you disagree don't buy it, I haven't and I love the concept - I will most certainly buy the 6th Edition version when that comes out.

I do love the complaints about 'finger print smudges'... Those are real problems and smartphones will never succeed due to smudges. Almost as bad as when I can't hear the TV over the sound of the crunching the cheetos I am eating while on the couch. Life is hard.

I can only assume this has been in the works for a while, before android took the top spot in smart phones.
Android tablets are doing well and making gains as well.
And with windows 8 tablets due in oct/nov it doesn't seem like they really gave this much thought in the long term.
The windows platform still has the largest install base world wide and would give them access to the largest customer base.
I would bet that ibooks offers some kind of additional copy protection that isn't available on other platforms. Or at least thats what GW were convinced of when making the decision to use this format.
In the end i hope it sells well, If not we are unlikely to see it ported to other platforms, it will be 20 years before GW try's anything "digital" again.
I'm not looking forward to purchasing all my books again @ 40 bucks a pop = 400$ minimum....
Although if they are updated with new errata it might be worth it
In the end ill take my windows tablet and load army builder on it and some pdf's for much less money.

If only they had released an ork one....when they do I am gonna grab it

Sounded pretty cool. Then I saw the price.

Also, just do PDF. That way people can get it on any platform.

I was pretty excited when I saw this. I was definitely looking forward to an iPad version, especially one that could be updated with rules changes. Then I saw the price. The only reason to justify such a high price, 9 bucks higher than a physical version, is that they really want people to still buy the paper versions of the codexes. Digital downloads mean no money for local stores and we already know how concerned GW is about those stores staying open.

the only reason this is fail to me is that i must spend £3-400 just for the happy benefit of now paying £23-4 for the codex too, make it useable for laptop use on itunes and im happy

My God, what a bunch of whiners here. I have to carry all those books, wwwaaaaaaa

Is it really that hard? Oh wait, I guess you rode a bus or got mommy and daddy to drive you to school so you didn't have to walk.

Man in my day I had to cary my school books, walk to school 20 minutes on way.

Oh yeah and in the winter I had snow up to my waist and had to walk uphill both ways. Geeze and you think you have it tough by carrying a small rule book and a codex.

My god some of you people will complain about anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also about piracy, doesn't GW say they are a miniture company not a rules company?

So how do people pirate minis?

Davor wrote:My God, what a bunch of whiners here. I have to carry all those books, wwwaaaaaaa

Is it really that hard? Oh wait, I guess you rode a bus or got mommy and daddy to drive you to school so you didn't have to walk.

Man in my day I had to cary my school books, walk to school 20 minutes on way.

Oh yeah and in the winter I had snow up to my waist and had to walk uphill both ways. Geeze and you think you have it tough by carrying a small rule book and a codex.

My god some of you people will complain about anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also about piracy, doesn't GW say they are a miniture company not a rules company?

So how do people pirate minis?

Re-cast them from bought minis

Just read the GW article and saw the video, it just looks like a WD. A very expensive that we have to purchase advertisment.

I think it's a great idea ONLY IF IT GETS UPDATED when FAQs do, otherwise you will still be carrying pieces of paper to go along with your ipad.

Also did you see the pic of the 2 guys playing on the table? Where is he going to put his ipad after he is done with it? Doesn't look like there is any room on that table so hopefully it will not fall and drop.

JakeSpacey wrote:I was pretty excited when I saw this. I was definitely looking forward to an iPad version, especially one that could be updated with rules changes. Then I saw the price. The only reason to justify such a high price, 9 bucks higher than a physical version, is that they really want people to still buy the paper versions of the codexes. Digital downloads mean no money for local stores and we already know how concerned GW is about those stores staying open.

Surely that was sarcasm.

Davor wrote:Just read the GW article and saw the video, it just looks like a WD. A very expensive that we have to purchase advertisment.

I think it's a great idea ONLY IF IT GETS UPDATED when FAQs do, otherwise you will still be carrying pieces of paper to go along with your ipad.

Also did you see the pic of the 2 guys playing on the table? Where is he going to put his ipad after he is done with it? Doesn't look like there is any room on that table so hopefully it will not fall and drop.

While I agree that it is only worth it if the FAQ/Errata updates apply themselves to the codices on the ipad I disagree that you'll be carrying around paper with your iPad if it does not. I have all the 40k FAQs and the INAT in PDF form on my iPad now. Last year I went to the BAO with a huge stack of printed material (FAQs) this year, since my work bought me an iPad2, I put them all in my iPad library. 1 Codex, 1 iPad, done. Not only lighter to carry around but more importantly more manageable. Still, I agree with your sentiments.

The true hobbyist will of course have a different ipad for every ipad codex, styled appropriately to reflect the character of the army codex that is stored on it.

Logistics are no excuse.

Shouldn't someone tell GW we have had acess if we wanted to choose to do it to digital editions of their codexes for a while? Or will we let them figure it out?

kenshin620 wrote:

helium42 wrote:It is getting reamed in the reviews on iTunes, mainly over the cost. Right now it is sitting on 76 reviews and an average of 1.5 stars out of 5.

I can see GW now...

"Egad, the reviews are appalling! We cant let this happen! Shut it all down!"

Sadly I see this happening. People whine how GW needs to go digital and once they do, they whine how they went digital. Can you only leave a review if you bought the product or are reviews open to everyone on the iReader Store? Listening to an interview with Rick Priestley and he was asked why they stopped the annual Chapter Approved/Warhammer Annual books. He said too many people complained about being asked to buy one every year. New rules, army lists, errata's, and FAQs in one nice place. Thought it was great and felt that was really the peak of 40k/FB. Fun lists and new rules coming out of GW on a regular basis. Yes there was some stupidass broken stuff in there, but was sad to see those stopped.

I'm not happy that it is only on the iPad right now (Kindle user) but understand that if you want to launch a digital book, your best bet is to launch it on the system that has the most users. The interactive features in the SM Codex sound great and minimize flipping around. The SoM scrolls are minor, but glad to see they are now available outside an old WD. Surprised no Sister's codex is on the side. Hopefully there will be one showing up soon. While I don't see these being documents that get updated one a new book comes out, hope they are living documents that are updated when a new FAQ comes out and changes an unit or rule.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

JakeSpacey wrote:I was pretty excited when I saw this. I was definitely looking forward to an iPad version, especially one that could be updated with rules changes. Then I saw the price. The only reason to justify such a high price, 9 bucks higher than a physical version, is that they really want people to still buy the paper versions of the codexes. Digital downloads mean no money for local stores and we already know how concerned GW is about those stores staying open.

Surely that was sarcasm.

Davor wrote:Just read the GW article and saw the video, it just looks like a WD. A very expensive that we have to purchase advertisment.

I think it's a great idea ONLY IF IT GETS UPDATED when FAQs do, otherwise you will still be carrying pieces of paper to go along with your ipad.

Also did you see the pic of the 2 guys playing on the table? Where is he going to put his ipad after he is done with it? Doesn't look like there is any room on that table so hopefully it will not fall and drop.

While I agree that it is only worth it if the FAQ/Errata updates apply themselves to the codices on the ipad I disagree that you'll be carrying around paper with your iPad if it does not. I have all the 40k FAQs and the INAT in PDF form on my iPad now. Last year I went to the BAO with a huge stack of printed material (FAQs) this year, since my work bought me an iPad2, I put them all in my iPad library. 1 Codex, 1 iPad, done. Not only lighter to carry around but more importantly more manageable. Still, I agree with your sentiments.

Well partly sarcasm. While you may disagree with GW, in their minds (or their stated reasoning) was no outside Internet sales was a way to make sure you either pay them retail plus shipping or retail at a GW store or less at most local retailers. Of course there are ways around this (eBay, phone orders). I'm not saying its the truth, but I can see them using the same argument for the price of this codex. Some people will pay this price. But how it can be more expensive than a physical copy, which has printing and paper costs, and contains material that has already been written is beyond me. The added features aren't that mind blowing. Considering you can buy most iPad apps for 10 bucks or less with much more original content and Black Library eBooks for less than their physical counterparts, I don't see how they can justify the price.

Will I probably eventually lay out the dough? Yeah, cause I'm a sucker for 40k anyway

sorry i havent read all 6 pages, but the impresion im getting isnt that we are complaining that GW went digital, we are complaining about the format, had they released it in PDF form for say... widows or something, then more people would have acess to it, as oposed to the few who are willing to spend £3-400 on an Ipad.

I think this is a legitimate worry, as if it stays Ipad only, only the lucky few will be able to afford it.

Formosa wrote:sorry i havent read all 6 pages, but the impresion im getting isnt that we are complaining that GW went digital, we are complaining about the format, had they released it in PDF form for say... widows or something, then more people would have acess to it, as oposed to the few who are willing to spend £3-400 on an Ipad.

I think this is a legitimate worry, as if it stays Ipad only, only the lucky few will be able to afford it.

Well someone here thinks if GW went PDF then everyone would pirate everything

This is a crazy price. I have an iPad but theses no way I'd pay that

kenshin620 wrote:

Formosa wrote:sorry i havent read all 6 pages, but the impresion im getting isnt that we are complaining that GW went digital, we are complaining about the format, had they released it in PDF form for say... widows or something, then more people would have acess to it, as oposed to the few who are willing to spend £3-400 on an Ipad.

I think this is a legitimate worry, as if it stays Ipad only, only the lucky few will be able to afford it.

Well someone here thinks if GW went PDF then everyone would pirate everything

As opposed to now? Where pretty much everything is already available on .pdf?

It's a neat idea - and it looks cool. But ebook pricing pisses me off in general. GW + Apple is a match made in overcharging heaven. Plus it really pisses me off how I can't even look at the site because I don't have Itunes installed. That's so Apple.

Schmapdi wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

Formosa wrote:sorry i havent read all 6 pages, but the impresion im getting isnt that we are complaining that GW went digital, we are complaining about the format, had they released it in PDF form for say... widows or something, then more people would have acess to it, as oposed to the few who are willing to spend £3-400 on an Ipad.

I think this is a legitimate worry, as if it stays Ipad only, only the lucky few will be able to afford it.

Well someone here thinks if GW went PDF then everyone would pirate everything

As opposed to now? Where pretty much everything is already available on .pdf?

It's a neat idea - and it looks cool. But ebook pricing pisses me off in general. GW + Apple is a match made in overcharging heaven. Plus it really pisses me off how I can't even look at the site because I don't have Itunes installed. That's so Apple.

Qouted for truth bro

The reason why the price is quite high for you guys in America and the UK is because they have to set the one set price for all of iBooks internationally. So if they set the price $10us lower then the paperback codex, then us Australians would be saving like $30-$40 on our overpriced paperback. Which they wouldn't like.

So I'm guessing they had to try and keep the prices "even" which ment your price for the ibook is higher then the paper back, and ours is lower then it.

Liquidice281 wrote:So your proving my point that if GW released full high quality searchable PDFs, you would use them instead of buying a hardcopy. Bet when a corporation allows PDFs to be used in stores, it becomes easy for any person to walk in with every codex and rule book illegally downloaded and say that they bought them. This would drastically decrease sales of books. Why would a kid with an allowance spend $40 on a codex when they could download a .pdf from the internet and use the money to buy models, and use the pdf in game stores.

The point is that games workshop cannot police illegally downloaded material if they sell and allow PDFs. Also, any game store that allows players to use pirated versions of rule books and codexs should not be allowed to sell GW product in my opinion. It sets a bad example for younger players, is unethical, and is bad for business.

Actually, it's not terribly difficult to curb those illegally downloaded pdfs in stores if you really want to. If you get a pdf from wargames vault for instance, the pdf will have a small watermark at the bottom of every page with your name and order # so they can trace it back to you if you upload a torrent of it. It doesn't show if you print a hard copy, but the pdf does not allow you to "print" or export it as another pdf or digital file, at least not with the few programs I've tried it with. I'm sure it's not foolproof and somebody is bound to crack it if they really care to, but if GW were truly concerned they could just include a similar DRM when you download it and look at watermarks in-store and at official tourneys as the judges walk around.

As far as pirating in general, I'm not convinced it's such a huge problem as the media makes it out to be. Just look at music and movies, it makes big news when people get hit with these huge lawsuits after getting caught and yet itunes is so successful that it has not only changed the music industry, but the movie industry as well. Netflix has the problems that it does because itunes is so dominating in digital music that the studios are extremely afraid to give netflix the same level power over tv/movies. And yet DvDs and BluRays still sell. CDs still sell (albeit to a far lesser degree). People still buy digital copies of music and movies for a few dollars even though it's usually not terribly hard to find a pirated copy of it. People still go and see movies in theaters even if they get torrented early. Avengers is a great example of that, made over a billion dollars in theaters despite a pirated copy hitting the internet a week before release. You will always have the people that want it for free because they "deserve" it or can't/won't afford it, but you will also always have the people willing to do the moral thing and many more that will do the convenient thing. Hell, that's the key to itunes: paying a dollar in an easilly searchable and easily downloadable format is usually much more convenient than trying to find a pirated copy of the song and find a way to get it without getting caught or infected with viruses. And other people just like having a physical copy of stuff. People like having a disc, people like having an actual book to flip through. Ereaders are extremely popular, audiobooks are becoming more and more and more popular, but people still buy books.

Besides, I've looked at a lot of those warhammer pdfs, and they're generally crap. Some are printers copies with the formatting bars, and those are generally nice quality, but many are badly lined up scans with text bleeding through the images from the reverse side of the page or worse somebody holding the book open and photographing the page. A lot of people would gladly pay real money for a quality pdf file, or pay a little extra for a hard copy with a digital copy included. Pirated stuff is generally just not as good as somehting you buy since almost by definition it's an ameteur that put it together

It's a great move, but not enough to get me back.

If I was back in the work force I'd be happy to buy eBooks of codicies at full price if they're properly designed, hyper-linked, and indexed. And I would buy them (at least for the armies I play, and this would of course all be contingent on GW releasing an affordable, high-quality model set for those armies with nothing in Finecast) over pirated PDFs.

But I don't have an iPad. I will never buy an Apple product.

So I'm out. To be fair to GW, this seems to be a rare case where the bungling can't be blamed on them- Android as far as I know has nothing equivalent to the iBook platform.

So overall it's a good move on GW's part, and as much as I think the company routinely screws up in this case I think they've gotten everything right that it is possible to get right.

Once in a while I'll try to think of you guys when I play Infinity with better models using free PDF rules.

Johira just said exactly what I was thinking about the product itself. Looks absolutely fantastic, but I don't like Apple, don't intend to buy an Ipad and don't intend to get back into warhammer. There's plenty of better written games with models just as good that cost far, far less and most of them are putting out free rules and also high quality printed rulebooks. Infinity does this best, the book is fantastic and totally worth the $40 or whatever I paid for it, even though I have all the pdfs with the free rules and army lists.

£25 is pretty steep, I have an iPhone and iPad and think the idea is great but costing as much as a physical copy...... Nahhhhh.

As 4 all the android users, I'm sure it will come but Joe average has a apple product. I don't like apple as a company but let's be honest it is the best around at what it does: being massively user friendly and having all the best apps.

So the real question will this book auto update when the new edition of the game comes out next month. And will they release a digital copy of the rule book the same day the physical book comes out. As for the scroll of binding, maybe it should be a free code in the box when you buy the mini.

I don't know why people complain about the price,

this digital codex seems to hold as much info and fluff as 2 codices together, and many other features that had to be programmed and worked upon a book can never offer. It seems to offer so much stuff, it's more than worth the 25£ IMHO

that being said, I like this, alot, if only, I had an Ipod (and that's a rhyme so it's true!)

I think the true success or failure will be known until a new book comes out. This is not a "in addition to the book" kind of product and everybody who wants C:SM already has it.

When a new book comes out (I am thinking 6th Ed) this will show how sustainable it is, since at that point it will be an option to actually buy a new book in either format.

Although being stuck in the Apple platform could explain the "Project Prisoner" code name...

RutgerMan wrote:I don't know why people complain about the price,

this digital codex seems to hold as much info and fluff as 2 codices together, and many other features that had to be programmed and worked upon a book can never offer. It seems to offer so much stuff, it's more than worth the 25£ IMHO

that being said, I like this, alot, if only, I had an Ipod (and that's a rhyme so it's true!)

I agree, its the same exact price as a printed codex now (remember, the SM codex went from $33 to $41?) and you get more options than the printed codex. The searchable text and popup rules links alone make it superior to the print version to me. Compared to DnD and various other games rulebooks, GW's organization of the rules in their books is atrocious and rules search/popup option is a godsend that helps solve this. 360s and potentially video are nice bonus too.

While it would be great if this could come to Android too, I can see why it isn't. Google hasn't really developed an easy to use ebook/interactive textbook creator... yet. Right now if GW wanted to do something comparable on Android they would have to hire a lot of programmers (prolly C+?) to make proprietary app-like codexes to create something comparable. Here's hoping Google gets with it and develops something comparable to the iBooks creator so GW can open it up to Android fans too.

Right now I already have an iPad, and i have pdfs of pretty much all the codexes. But when the codexes come out for the armies I own, I plan on buying them through iBooks too... i was pretty impressed with what these can do.

RutgerMan wrote:this digital codex seems to hold as much info and fluff as 2 codices together

It is not 324 "pages" it is 324 "screens" (most regular codex pages now span two "screens"), other than the Stormtalon, it is the existing codex with pop-ups/animations (which have some usefulness). Okay, it has a few corrections too.

So what i get is GW has crappy layout so you rewrard and pay extra for the ability to find things easier wich should have been done in the first place.

JOHIRA wrote:
But I don't have an iPad. I will never buy an Apple product.

Amen brother!!

As much as I am all about personal principles, why is it GWs fault that you won't ever buy an Apple product?

If they want to release a product that is made for tablets, and decide to focus on the biggest platform, then they can. Just don't blame GW for your personal decisions.

Because all they know how to do is complain about how horrible GW is and how they hate customers.

I am sure they could decide that every customer gets a free real life pony in every box and they would complain and talk about how awesome mules are.

sparkywtf wrote:Because all they know how to do is complain about how horrible GW is and how they hate customers.

I am sure they could decide that every customer gets a free real life pony in every box and they would complain and talk about how awesome mules are.

Don't be silly, we both know that the only reason for the free pony is that you are only allowed to feed it FineHay, so GW is forcing you to spend money later.

I haz iPad, but I will WAIT before embracing the digital editions idea. Previous posters are entirely correct... if the iBook codexes are auto-updated with errata and FAQ and rule changes, then I will embrace them. If not, I'll buy the old fashioned rulebooks instead. All up to you, GW.

If you pay 42 for this then you are a rube

I love this idea. I have checked out the sample of the SM codex, and it works perfectly - far better than using a PDF on either an iPad or computer, IMHO.

To address some of the main complaints in this thread:
1. That it's iOS-only. It is a shame, and I hope GW makes something equivalent for Android (it would be awesome on my SGS2), but I can see why GW focused on iOS first: mainly the larger audience, and the Apple iBooks creation toolkit. Yes, you need to have a product that costs a couple of hundred dollars to use this book, but no one is forcing you to use this GW product. It's a handy tool for players who own an iPad, nothing more. Complaining about this is like complaining about having to buy a house before you could purchase a pool.

2. The advantages of this over a regular PDF. The iBook is conveniently indexed, has a very handy glossary of rules (and these are complete rules, not just "refer to page X" lines). Tap on any rule name in the book and it will have a pop-up that explains the full rule, nullifying the biggest complaint people had with the 4th edition codex layout style (ie flipping between pages for rules and points costs). Needless to say, this is significantly better than trying to use a PDF file.

3. The cost. It's pretty pricey for an eBook, that's very true. But here in Australia, it's actually $10 cheaper than the physical book (and, IMHO, it's actually a very reasonable price difference between here and the US). And if it comes with automatic updates with FAQs and errata, then that is an incredibly convenient timesaver for me. Of course, I don't even know if this is definitely the case; I'm going to be waiting for next month to see whether GW will update the SM codex for 6th edition before making a final judgement on this one.

4. Needing a platform that requires recharging and is susceptible to fingerprints, etc. The iPad has a battery life of around 9-10 hours, depending on your usage. That should easily get through any tournament day, given that the device will be in standby for most of it. As for fingerprints, just buy an anti-glare screen protector (they're cheap as chips on eBay) and most of the problem smudges cause will be gone.

About the only thing I don't like is the price, but all GW books are pretty grossly overpriced. Compared to that, the eBook version is actually pretty reasonable, IMHO. I'll definitely be getting the Chaos codex and 6th edition when they come out.

Edit: I also wonder what will happen when new edition codices are released? Will they release a new version that you have to buy, or will you be able to update your existing eBook? I'd expect there to be some kind of fee if it was the latter, but that would make this a very worthwhile investment. I doubt it'll happen, of course, but we'll see.

Seriously $42 for a digital codex? My 2 year GW embargo will continue...

I'm very excited about this new product! I can't wait until they release one for a new codex.

actually i use the pdfs, because its much easier then carrying around 14 diffirent books. i have purchased, and will continue to purchase codex and army books as they come out, since i perfer to know what an army can do, and the army book / codex is the best way. i then scan it myself, create a pdf and use it. i do not upload or share the pdf on file sharing.

GW releasing an actual ap/ digital codex makes this process more streamlined, and i would happily pay for said. possibly instead of buying the hardcover book, as now all they tend to do is collect dust once ive scanned them. as for the price tag... well its a fully interactive codex / army builder ap, and as such should cost near about what the codex would.

this is why im speculating on a digital version of 6th... perhaps this is a preview of things to come.

Hmmm an interesting development, once again proving the "dammed if they do; dammed if the don't" adage.

So it now appears that I may be at last buying an iPad in the near future (for commuting on the train, this may be a bonus!). Price differances are large between the different models and I would prefer to get an older cheaper iPad since the chance of damage is high in the crush.

Do all iPad models meet the spec necessary to run the GW programes or is it a case that they will all download and run The iBook2 app?

I purchased the Space Marine codex and after messing around with it for a while I've posted a detailed review of the new format.

If you're interested to see what works and doesn't work so well with this new release and if it is worth the money, check it out here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface_Reviews_the_Digital_Ultramarines_Codex


Don't forget to leave me comments too, I'd love to hear what you think about my review.

kirsanth wrote:

Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail

Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .

It IS GW after all.

Odds of them importing stuff to other platforms? Heh.
When's the last time you saw an Army Builder update that wasn't fan-made?

DarkStarSabre wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail

Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .

It IS GW after all.

Odds of them importing stuff to other platforms? Heh.
When's the last time you saw an Army Builder update that wasn't fan-made?

So Games Workshop are now being demonised over a completely separate companies product, Army Builder?

Only on Dakka. Some of you guys are pure class.

notprop wrote:Hmmm an interesting development, once again proving the "dammed if they do; dammed if the don't" adage.

So it now appears that I may be at last buying an iPad in the near future (for commuting on the train, this may be a bonus!). Price differances are large between the different models and I would prefer to get an older cheaper iPad since the chance of damage is high in the crush.

Do all iPad models meet the spec necessary to run the GW programes or is it a case that they will all download and run The iBook2 app?

I believe you need an iPad 2 or 3 with any specs to run iBooks 2. Which allows you to buy the digital codex. It might work on an iPad 1, but it could be very laggy.

Source: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1311254


The space marine codex works great on my iPad 2.

notprop wrote:Hmmm an interesting development, once again proving the "dammed if they do; dammed if the don't" adage.

So it now appears that I may be at last buying an iPad in the near future (for commuting on the train, this may be a bonus!). Price differances are large between the different models and I would prefer to get an older cheaper iPad since the chance of damage is high in the crush.

Do all iPad models meet the spec necessary to run the GW programes or is it a case that they will all download and run The iBook2 app?

My recommendation as someone that owns both an Ipad 2 and the "new" Ipad aka the Ipad 3. If your primary purpose in getting an Ipad is to read ebooks or pdf documents. Spend the extra scratch and get the "new" Ipad. The retina screen is really a big upgrade for reading text.

The reviews thus far have no mention of an army builder. So it seems that it is just a codex with some pop-up hyperlinks and photo rotations from their website.

Looks like something that could be on the website for free.

-Loki- wrote:If all you want is a PDf to flick through, you'll obviously balk at the price tag. But a lot of effort went into this.

Does it add anything to the game that I'm not getting out of a current rulebook? No.

Looking at a 360 view of the storm talon is kinda cool...once or twice. But I really don't think I need it in the middle of a game.

silent25 wrote:Sadly I see this happening. People whine how GW needs to go digital and once they do, they whine how they went digital.

Because when GW goes digital they suck at it. Remember the GW "forums"? Those were particularly awful.

People wanted an e-book. GW provided an e-book and raised the price above retail books. This shouldn't be a surprise, really.

Excellent article yakface this is just great. Really informative.

Really the final footnote is that the ball is truly in the court of GW as to the likely success or failure of this format of codex/rulebook going forward.

Jesus.. Whine whine whine... Must you lot insist with this incessant dripping!?

Buy it, don't buy it...whatever, I'm not getting it. Each to their own.

But there's no need to act like you just caught Jervis plugging your grandmother.

-Loki- wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail

Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .

It IS GW after all.

Odds of them importing stuff to other platforms? Heh.
When's the last time you saw an Army Builder update that wasn't fan-made?

So Games Workshop are now being demonised over a completely separate companies product, Army Builder?

Only on Dakka. Some of you guys are pure class.

I think he meant that the only army builder program is fan made, and it's something that should be officially made by GW.

biccat wrote:Does it add anything to the game that I'm not getting out of a current rulebook? No.

Looking at a 360 view of the storm talon is kinda cool...once or twice. But I really don't think I need it in the middle of a game.

That's true, but you know what I need in the middle of a game? Some obscure fething rule that I can't remember what page it's on. This has a clever search tool. For example, I'm always forgetting where the Tyranid psychic powers are, because the codex layout is atrocious. If I type in 'Catalyst', I can quickly find that page.

I mean, I'm not saying that this thing is gods gift. It's overpriced, amd the normal book will do the same thing.

I was simply saying this isn't just the indesign pages thrown into an ebook as people are comparing it to (I can just go download the PDFs off my favorite pirate site! WAAAH!). A lot of work went into this. From the smart indexing and search features to having the colour pages have interactive sections with more art than the physical codex and more. It's far more than just the indesign files that people pirate. It's not going to appeal to everyone - it didn't for me until I saw the video preview, and still doesn't considering my lack of an iPad. But it's actually a very well put together product, with more effort than people are giving credit for.

It's still priced a bit high for Americans. For Australians? It's $10 cheaper than the physical book.

This is actually notably cheaper that the codices being sold locally - which are going at the equivalent of at least about £30 or $46.

So... I'm happy! I think?

I love this. If they do this for all codices + the BRB I will have a reason to invest in an iPad. No more hauling around 7, 8 or 9 books + FAQs to seperate events. This is a winner, and if they release regular updates or even 'DLC packs' for new units it'll still be worthwhile.

Kudos GW, this looks mighty impressive indeed.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I love this. If they do this for all codices + the BRB I will have a reason to invest in an iPad. No more hauling around 7, 8 or 9 books + FAQs to seperate events. This is a winner, and if they release regular updates or even 'DLC packs' for new units it'll still be worthwhile.

Kudos GW, this looks mighty impressive indeed.

L. Wrex

The scrolls of binding are what appeal to me. It would be amazing to be able to buy rules for units À la carte instead of having to buy an 80$ book for one unit. I think it is interesting how they packaged the rules for the cave squig in a tiny iBook. I would see huge value in selling datasheets for IA and WD add-ons per unit for people who want it.

I think the interesting thing will be is if these will be updated and all inclusive. If a new unit appears, will the unit show up in the iBook? That adds value as well if it happens.

I don't need a space marine codex at this time, but I support the concept.

You all realize its REALLY easy to port ibooks to other media right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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For example...

I think GW has a real opportunity to add value to their products by maintaining the i-codex in a meaningful way. The problem I see though, is how do they then maintain/satisfy the owners of hard copies in the same/ meaningful way? I'm still sore over the interactive army lists so I'll let you young bucks take this product by the horns. I hope GW is successful with this and I hope the customers are happy with their purchases.

mattyrm wrote:Jesus.. Whine whine whine... Must you lot insist with this incessant dripping!?

Buy it, don't buy it...whatever, I'm not getting it. Each to their own.

But there's no need to act like you just caught Jervis plugging your grandmother.

Matty, you forget that it's rule #1 of being a gamer, you have to act personally offended whenever a company comes out with something you don't like.
Though the amount of complaining and whining in this thread is pretty hilarious.

Personally I think that the ebook Codex is a great idea, it looks really great. None of my friends place Codex Marines but I'm sure that when they come out with more codices I can see myself getting one. Lots of nifty stuff!

Though my favorite is the small scrolls of binding. Small rules for a dollar or two have a lot of potential. A new Space Marine strike squad, an Imperial Guard formation, a new alien race for the Dark Eldar. Don't even need to have models, just the rules.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

sfshilo wrote:You all realize its REALLY easy to port ibooks to other media right?

Research more. It's IBooks2 only, using a proprietary format that has NO port so far

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Though my favorite is the small scrolls of binding. Small rules for a dollar or two have a lot of potential. A new Space Marine strike squad, an Imperial Guard formation, a new alien race for the Dark Eldar. Don't even need to have models, just the rules.

Also fit's GWs new model of no longer releasing rules without models. GW can now hold back rules for specific units until the model is released to prevent being scooped on thier own designed. Now they can release the rules piecemeal should they want to release a model. (and now we don't need to go buy a 9$ White Dwarf for one datasheet)

Lots of magazines are going electronic now. I wonder if WD will go electronic?

If it gets updated.

I wonder with all the people who praise and bought this will say if it doesn't get updated.

I just find it very funny I believe everyone who bought this already has the SM codex. So why buy it twice?

I mean you guys already complain they cost too much so now you spent over $80 now for a SM codex. One on paper the other electronic version.

All I can say it for your guys and gals sake it better be upgraded for free. I can't see why people would want to pay more to have it upgraded when it should have been done properly the first time.

Also what is this talk about Apple being the biggest share? Who cares? The GW hobby is a niech hobby so for all those people on apple will not be buying it anyways. So the few people who are already are in the hobby they are eliminating a bunch of the already few.

Unless this is GW dipping their toes into the water and I can see why they are 10 years behind. Still 10 years too late and they still look foolish no matter what they do.

Is it true that the e-codex has an army builder function? If so, that would be amazing foresight on GW's part.

I don't think it does. It would have been said by now if it did.

It would have been one of the first things said for the people who already have one.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I love this. If they do this for all codices + the BRB I will have a reason to invest in an iPad. No more hauling around 7, 8 or 9 books + FAQs to seperate events. This is a winner, and if they release regular updates or even 'DLC packs' for new units it'll still be worthwhile.

Kudos GW, this looks mighty impressive indeed.

L. Wrex

Really? Wow theres couple hundred bucks down the crapper on e-books right there, assuming they stick with the same price point. Hope you get your moneys worth

I very rarely ever post on news/rumors but..i feel i need to say a single simple thing. GW is raising the price of Codex up to 41$ soon. So.. if ALL codex's will be on this type of format for the ipod( or whatever format they/might expand to).. i 100% would rather buy it there with all the addons, then a book, that falls apart after about a years worth of good use.(And i LOVE books) To each their own is what i say. I Looked through the store on the ipad for their books.I found all sorts of novels i cannot find in actual paperback..Do i like paying the same price for a real book? no i do not..but i plan on buying it anyhow as i enjoy the stories so much.

This might explain why a certain someone has noticed that online copies of thier codexes have gone amiss, with scribd, and other pdf cites they are certainly harder to find.
Now Diet time for the wallets, time to lose weight.

To concur with "CHEEXSTA" I'm hoping as I buy each codex it will Auto update like "ARMY BUILDER" to stay current with the game and will reduce codex lag. Therefore the higher initial out lay/purchase price will support this software maintainance, or will it be part of a current WHITE DWARF subscription (Digital)

I believe this is the way of the future for the game, this codex lag sucks.

Zuul wrote:I'll never buy an ebook reader nor an apple product, so I'm not terribly excited by this.

+1. The nifty neat options are cool, but I'm a fan of dead trees.

Just to add to the why Apple?
The iPad makes up 68% of the tablet market. Kindle, 4%.
Source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/apple-grabs-tablet-market-share-while-market-falls-off-a-cliff-for-first-quarter/

It's just the old computer games on Mac vs PC. Most companies didn't release it on the Mac because it wasn't worth the extra effort for a system that only had 10% of the market. Oh the irony of it all...

What ^ said.

It makes total sense to release this on ios first as they currently dominate the tablet market. Not releasing it on ios first would actually be the dumb idea in this case.

No matter how you slice it, this is a good move by GW. Is it too expensive? Maybe, but if it is to you then don't buy it. But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Not bothered with the Codex, but did by the painting guide to see how it was. Works absolutely fine on my ancient first-gen iPad.

pongo50 wrote:To concur with "CHEEXSTA" I'm hoping as I buy each codex it will Auto update like "ARMY BUILDER" to stay current...

Not to derail, but didn't/don't you have to pay Army Builder every couple of years to keep a subscription (otherwise updates used to stop updating as I recall).

If that's still the case, I can see GW adopting a subscription codex model. They already kind of have it since to stay current with many/most groups, you have to buy the latest codex.

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Just because a hobby takes up space does not mean that somebody cannot be mindful of how much space he takes up.

There is also the fact of carrying these books to the store when you play.

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I already play Malifaux and don't get nearly enough time in playing that game. Trying to get a game started that no one in my area plays is more energy than I have at the moment.

Hrm.. where to start. I suppose I'll start w/ this - this is actually a GOOD idea. It shows the customer base (us) that they are actively trying to stay in the curve when it comes to things tech-y, and it also shows that they're willing look in other directions with their books. Also, doing the trial (hopefully) run on the iOS is the logical thing to do, however, the reasons being that it has the highest marketshare for this type of thing are of secondary concern. The reason they're doing this on iOS, is because Apple has a beautiful programming language that makes this stuff incredibly easy to do. Sure, the iPad has the most marketshare, but lets be honest - the % of people in this hobby w/ an iPad is MAYBE 1% of total actual users. When was the last time you were @ your FLGS & somebody showed up w/ a tablet of any kind...?

Realistically, this is a solution to a set of problems that I - and the rest of you, tbh - DON'T have. "I have so much stuff to carry, the BRB, the codecies for all my armies & all their FAQ's, etc., etc." Solution - don't carry all that stuff. There's absolutely no reason that if you have multiple armies (most of us do obviously) that you have to take ALL of them & their required materials w/ you when you go play. But, when you do, be prepared to take that stuff w/ you. You can buy a decent backpack from Wal-Mart (or regional equivilent) for ~$15. If you're taking 5 - 7 books w/ you as I have seen people mention, then that means that you're probably carrying @ least that many armies too, so the backpack full of books is the last of your concerns. "I need to have a searchable interface for my rules." WHY? Do you not KNOW your relevent codex? Have you not sat on the toilet for hours on end (hopefully not consecutively ) and read your codex over & over & over & over..? If you have to look up a rule EVERY SINGLE TIME you play (someone mentioned a 'nid psychic power he could never find when he used it), than you have more problems than a digital copy of your codex will solve. Now, I understand someone may want to look @ a particular rule from time to time, or you may be using a new character/unit than you're used to & you might need to verify you have it right. Solution - tabs. Get some stick on tabs from the stationery section of your local all-in-one store & label your codex so these things can be easily found. And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

This idea, like I said, is great, but it needs MUCH refinement before it's of any real practical use to anyone here. For those of us who don't have a tablet (I'm guessing @ least 75% of the users here), I have serious doubts that this is going to make them run out & purchase one (I know I wont) and if GW is going to a digital only format, they're going to loose LOTS of business. Realistically, until tablets (of any variety) become the norm, this is all just grandstanding, to make them feel like they're 'doing us a favor' & moving into the digital age.

~Vryce

Vryce wrote:Hrm.. where to start. I suppose I'll start w/ this - this is actually a GOOD idea. It shows the customer base (us) that they are actively trying to stay in the curve when it comes to things tech-y, and it also shows that they're willing look in other directions with their books. Also, doing the trial (hopefully) run on the iOS is the logical thing to do, however, the reasons being that it has the highest marketshare for this type of thing are of secondary concern. The reason they're doing this on iOS, is because Apple has a beautiful programming language that makes this stuff incredibly easy to do. Sure, the iPad has the most marketshare, but lets be honest - the % of people in this hobby w/ an iPad is MAYBE 1% of total actual users. When was the last time you were @ your FLGS & somebody showed up w/ a tablet of any kind...?

I am a tablet user, but I never take it to my FLGS. My tabled has movies and music on it, why would I take it to my FLGS when I am there to play games? So the lack of iPads at your FLGS is not a very accurate indicator for tabled use by gamers IMO.

Vryce wrote:Realistically, this is a solution to a set of problems that I - and the rest of you, tbh - DON'T have. "I have so much stuff to carry, the BRB, the codecies for all my armies & all their FAQ's, etc., etc." Solution - don't carry all that stuff. There's absolutely no reason that if you have multiple armies (most of us do obviously) that you have to take ALL of them & their required materials w/ you when you go play. But, when you do, be prepared to take that stuff w/ you. You can buy a decent backpack from Wal-Mart (or regional equivilent) for ~$15. If you're taking 5 - 7 books w/ you as I have seen people mention, then that means that you're probably carrying @ least that many armies too, so the backpack full of books is the last of your concerns.

So what you are saying is "You already carry lots of stuff, who cares if you carry more?" Many people have books for armies that they don't own, maybe they want to look at the rules and units that an opponent is using or for pickup games. I was at a family reunion this weekend and it turns out one of my brothers that I hardly see plays 40K now. I didn't have my books with me, but I did have a PDF of my C:SM book on my laptop. Between that and Army Builder I was able to use a part of his C:CSM force as a proxy to play a pickup game.

Vryce wrote:"I need to have a searchable interface for my rules." WHY? Do you not KNOW your relevent codex? Have you not sat on the toilet for hours on end (hopefully not consecutively ) and read your codex over & over & over & over..? If you have to look up a rule EVERY SINGLE TIME you play (someone mentioned a 'nid psychic power he could never find when he used it), than you have more problems than a digital copy of your codex will solve. Now, I understand someone may want to look @ a particular rule from time to time, or you may be using a new character/unit than you're used to & you might need to verify you have it right. Solution - tabs. Get some stick on tabs from the stationery section of your local all-in-one store & label your codex so these things can be easily found. And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

Stick-on tabs don't solve the problem of people not wanting to carry every book out there.

As far as "don't you know your codex" goes: have you been so lucky that you never played anybody that doesn't know your codex and said "you are making that up, show me the rule"? The majority of my having to find a rule is for my opponent.

Vryce wrote:And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

An earlier point that I made is that I don't think we will see how viable this product is until the first new rulebook or new codex. It is not a supplement to a hard copy, not in the format it is sold. I think during the next release, when people will decide "Do I want this as a hard copy OR do I want it digital", we will see how readily it is accepted.

Vryce wrote:This idea, like I said, is great, but it needs MUCH refinement before it's of any real practical use to anyone here. For those of us who don't have a tablet (I'm guessing @ least 75% of the users here), I have serious doubts that this is going to make them run out & purchase one (I know I wont) and if GW is going to a digital only format, they're going to loose LOTS of business. Realistically, until tablets (of any variety) become the norm, this is all just grandstanding, to make them feel like they're 'doing us a favor' & moving into the digital age.
~Vryce

Ozymandias wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I already play Malifaux and don't get nearly enough time in playing that game. Trying to get a game started that no one in my area plays is more energy than I have at the moment.

I know what you mean, it does seem like a lot of replies on the forum have subtle advertising placed in them.

And speaking of reactions, did you know in Infinity you can 'react' to another model's actions during their turn? It's really an elegant mechanic as it....

Just joking, I don't play Infinity .



I'll have to see their future electronic endeavors before I can make an adequate judgement. However, it doesn't appear you can build a roster (or bluetooth it) which is a real shame.

I'm in love with this idea. I just added Quartermaster to my iPad last week and now, assuming the 6th edition rulebook and the right codexes are released soon, I will only be bringing my iPad with me to games from now on.

My biggest hope is that this will solve the 5-7 year drought between models for some armies. Usually models are released only when they can get new rules. As shown by the Storm Talon, they can now push out new rules to players who have the books whenever they want to. No need to wait until the next version of the army book. That's marvelous.

BTW - when I downloaded it on the weekend, it was the 31st most popular book in iBooks Canada!

EDIT - One further thought. Anyone who thinks GW isn't raising the price of books for 6th edition and making them hardcover is not paying attention. I'm sure the hardcovers are going to be the same price as the digital.

I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I know what you mean, it does seem like a lot of replies on the forum have subtle advertising placed in them.

And speaking of reactions, did you know in Infinity you can 'react' to another model's actions during their turn? It's really an elegant mechanic as it....

Just joking, I don't play Infinity .

Hohoho

But it is an amazing game. Those of us who have played it and 'seen the light' feel the need to proselytise to others..

Anyway, on topic definitely a great move by GW! I'm more than a little pleasantly surprised.

Davor wrote:I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

I imagine it isn't as simple as altering a PDF. If you are that worried about someone cheating like that, I wouldn't play against them.

But I would assume there is some protection from editing it. Heck, anytime you connect your ipad to charge it, it probably syncs up and updates it if it has been changed back to GW's version

For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

Davor wrote:I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

Anything digital can be messed with given enough skill, but this is a pretty closed format. And besides, the fact that a print version does exist makes it a worthless idea for someone to take the energy to try to make some cracked version, as it is going to be quickly identified.

You know it's a big deal when Yakface shows up to discuss it. He's like Uatu the Watcher of the Dakka universe.

(good review btw)

Thanks for the review, yakface. That's a pretty big bummer regarding the lack of an army building function.

So you can not build armies with this thing? That's pretty useless really. Is that maybe that's something they're working on in the future?

Seeing as how they (GW) have dipped their collective toes into iOs now, I wouldn't be surprised to see an army builder app appearing.
I would expect in-app purchases of new codecies too
This digital media move is a good thing for me.
I can see me going all interactive for rules and codecies now.

Why would anyone even possibly think that it would be a way to make lists?

iBooks and all other e-book formats are not office productivity suites and this is not an 'application'. Having links, embedded media and mouseovers is worlds apart from having an interactive editing program which does math. It is not an excel workbook.

GW can't win... it is either "GW sucks because they made something too advanced for basic PDFs" or "GW sucks because they didn't make the iBook advanced enough to be a full-fledge application."

yakface wrote:
For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

So you can not make a unit selection as they do in the sample video when he selects a dread, adds some options, and calls it Unit 1?

EDIT: In the video, it says "Army List" is Chapter 12.

This is a great move by GW, dipping their toes into the digital. age. I'll be watching what they do with it and definitely take the plunge at some point.

For the complainers, wow. Give someone a dollar, they complain it's not ten dollars. How many people have been blasting GW because they've taken so long to get on the digital bandwagon? They finally try it, and now you've just shifted gears. I am by no means a GW fanboy, but come on.

nkelsch wrote:Why would anyone even possibly think that it would be a way to make lists?
GW can't win... it is either "GW sucks because they made something too advanced for basic PDFs" or "GW sucks because they didn't make the iBook advanced enough to be a full-fledge application."

Holy snap, Sir Lancelot, relax. Most of us still like the digital direction GW is going; the comments about the lack of army builder are just questions and observations about a new product with which we're not yet totally familiar.

And the reason "GW can't win" has nothing to do with e-codices. They can't win because their prices are hilariously astronomical, their product line still has huge flaws (Finecast), and they're completely tone-deaf to their customer base.

The real question is, would you buy the iBook version of 6th edition or get the B?B when it comes out?

Breotan wrote:The real question is, would you buy the iBook version of 6th edition or get the B?B when it comes out?

Sadly, for some of us, the answer is both. Though, I lack anything that can use or purchase an iBook version, so I guess I can't do both (yet).

temprus wrote:

yakface wrote:
For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

So you can not make a unit selection as they do in the sample video when he selects a dread, adds some options, and calls it Unit 1?

EDIT: In the video, it says "Army List" is Chapter 12.

Nope. He's just adding a note to the text.

You could try to ad-hoc an army list together this way (because notes do all show up in a summary page together), but it would be terrible...it would just be like writing a list by hand, only on a tablet. And plus, you'd only have one list available.

In short: no list building capability is in this ebook.

If they offered the BRB in a format without all the fluff and more like the AOBR rulebook, I would buy it in a heart beat.

If it is a huge book with tons of fluff... depends on how much I like the actual BRB. If it is easy to find rules, I will stick with that probably.

For the record, the book is annoying for rules useage. I hope no one else wastes their money on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I very much doubt they will update these books. they never have before, why would they start now?

Watched Youtube video promoting it.
Looked it up on my Pad.
Liked how it looked.
Saw the price was the same as the fething paper copy.
Turned off Pad.

yakface wrote:

temprus wrote:

yakface wrote:
For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

So you can not make a unit selection as they do in the sample video when he selects a dread, adds some options, and calls it Unit 1?

EDIT: In the video, it says "Army List" is Chapter 12.

Nope. He's just adding a note to the text.

You could try to ad-hoc an army list together this way (because notes do all show up in a summary page together), but it would be terrible...it would just be like writing a list by hand, only on a tablet. And plus, you'd only have one list available.

In short: no list building capability is in this ebook.

Great review, Yakface! Thank you very much! One thing though, the GW site has FINALLY updated the new prices and the print version and the digital versions are now both $41.25 (in the US). Looking forward to getting the codexes I have armies for and test driving myself.

As far as an army builder function in the digital version, we as customers should keep mentioning this to GW and maybe it will become a feature. I don't think there is any technical reason that this can't be possible...

They'll be too busy counting piles and piles of money to listen.

Scipio Africanus wrote:
Also, I very much doubt they will update these books. they never have before, why would they start now?

How would they have updated the books before, considering there are no prior ebooks?

d-usa wrote:

Scipio Africanus wrote:Also, I very much doubt they will update these books. they never have before, why would they start now?

How would they have updated the books before, considering there are no prior ebooks?

They put out a WD "cut & paste" update for 3rd edition SM & DE codex back in the day. They even made an updated edition with all those changes and started shipping the updated books out in place of the originals. They abandoned the practice after only those two books.

So, to have the digital codex updates and all, for about 40bucks, I also would have to shell out another 3-400bucks for an Apple product ?

Scipio Africanus wrote:For the record, the book is annoying for rules useage. I hope no one else wastes their money on this.

I've found the book to be superior to the print version when it comes to rules usage (the reasons why are in my review). What precisely do you find annoying?

So, I just pricede i-Pads at Wal-E-World(Wal-Mart) 399 and up to 729 for the things,,,Made by low paid workers in China for cryin' out loud! Just so I can download a 41dollar version of a book that is 30bucks in hard copy?

shasolenzabi wrote:So, I just pricede i-Pads at Wal-E-World(Wal-Mart) 399 and up to 729 for the things,,,Made by low paid workers in China for cryin' out loud! Just so I can download a 41dollar version of a book that is 30bucks in hard copy?

You do get an iPad with the purchase of an iPad.

I am allergic to Apple prices!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That and a hard copy codex does not need to be plugged into the wall socket or cause worry about batteries.

shasolenzabi wrote:I am allergic to Apple prices!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That and a hard copy codex does not need to be plugged into the wall socket or cause worry about batteries.

Nobody is going to stop you from using a print codex, so if it works best for you, then godspeed!

yakface wrote:Nobody is going to stop you from using a print codex, so if it works best for you, then godspeed!

I hope you are right. Wouldn't be surprised at all if GW makes iPads mandatory:
"If it doubles the costs for your first game, we do it"

Nice review, Yak.

I purchased it as soon as it was up on itunes after watching the youtube promo just for kicks and was pleasantly suprised. Its well done and can't wait for more (Orks in Particular).

I appreciated how they added a few more Chapters and brief descriptions of their lore, in addition to FAQ'd rules(although missed some, as Yaks review points out) and entirely new rules (Storm Talon). This leads me to believe they will update the codex when needed, as they already did when making the product.

I'm ever the optimist.

Lol, how fickle we are. We spend our days attacking games workshop, then they make something bright and shiny and we are suddenly back in love with them.

Yes its nice, but is it really worth it. GW is going digital finally,
thats good
..0

I hope they do, because we all saw how well that turned out for Ex Illis.

NELS1031 wrote:Nice review, Yak.

I purchased it as soon as it was up on itunes after watching the youtube promo just for kicks and was pleasantly suprised. Its well done and can't wait for more (Orks in Particular).

I appreciated how they added a few more Chapters and brief descriptions of their lore, in addition to FAQ'd rules(although missed some, as Yaks review points out) and entirely new rules (Storm Talon). This leads me to believe they will update the codex when needed, as they already did when making the product.

I'm ever the optimist.

Yeah that's the real kicker or kick in the nuts issue for me.

GW don't offer any recompense for buying a new codex with each new revision, you have to buy the new codex. I just can't see GW changing that so you effectively buy this digital ed and it will update to a new edition of the rules. Since i assume C:SM is almost certainly going to be updated first you might find yourself having to buy a new digital C:SM in say 12 months.

£25 isn't allot but I'm no fan of wasting money on a short lived product if it ultimately means spending another £25 next year.

Not only that but a lot of us can remember that GW already has form when it comes to 'forgetting' about their digital offerings. The Interactive Army list situation springs to mind - they very quickly and quietly dropped support for that; I only hope that the digital codex plan doesn't go the same way.