kenshin620 wrote:
Plus IIRCGW said at one point that all codexes will always exist for now on, no more squating.
So, if I understand you correctly, what you're telling me is that if I don't like the new CSM codex, I can use the CSM codex that currently exists? From now on?
kenshin620 wrote:
Plus IIRCGW said at one point that all codexes will always exist for now on, no more squating.
So, if I understand you correctly, what you're telling me is that if I don't like the new CSM codex, I can use the CSM codex that currently exists? From now on?
No, not at all. What he means is that GW have said they will never drop (discontinue all the models + rules) an army again, like how, back in the day, they wrote the Squats out of 40k entirely. You will still be required to use the most recent version of your army's rules (unless you pre-arrange a friendly game at home for example).
So basically, GW have said that all the codecies that exist now will continue to get updated/supported with new models and rules for the forseeable future (not necessarily very quickly though ). Unless GW changes their mind again of course.
The idea is to ENTICE someone to post some pictures if they had access, say, to the Chinese factory that produces them. However, my comment is generally meant to be tongue and cheek. I wouldn't want some factory worker making .35 an hour to lose his or her job because of my wants and needs.
Still, the ridiculous conversation sparked in the thread is good for a laugh... or two.
kenshin620 wrote:
Plus IIRCGW said at one point that all codexes will always exist for now on, no more squating.
So, if I understand you correctly, what you're telling me is that if I don't like the new CSM codex, I can use the CSM codex that currently exists? From now on?
No, not at all. What he means is that GW have said they will never drop (discontinue all the models + rules) an army again, like how, back in the day, they wrote the Squats out of 40k entirely. You will still be required to use the most recent version of your army's rules (unless you pre-arrange a friendly game at home for example).
So basically, GW have said that all the codecies that exist now will continue to get updated/supported with new models and rules for the forseeable future (not necessarily very quickly though ). Unless GW changes their mind again of course.
Squats still exist in 40k fluff. Go to page 405, second paragraph. They are listed under abhumans as Squats ( Homo sapiens rotundus ) If this has already been posted I apologize.
helium42 wrote:
...and secondly because I want to get my hands on the new chaos dread and cultists. AoBR and IoB were both fantastic values and I think that the new set will be as well.
Agreed. Both miniature sets were quite nice. Some folks will always whine about the figures not being multi-piece, etc etc (and when 4th ed. came out they did have a point). However, with the exception of 4th edition ( preceeded by 3rd which had standard multi-piece, stock-listable figs inside) each successive boxed set has been a massive improvement on what came before in terms of variety, and quality. AoBR was a great set with a load of poses, especially nice when compared to 2nd edition box sets.
We have no reason to think that the boxed set contents will be standard multipart models (though it would be nice) We have every reason to believe that these upcoming figures will be just as nice as AoBR and IoB. Mostly likely this means quality one-to-three part models with details roughly equivalent (though slightly less defined) to their non-box-set equivalents, and without too much duplication of sculpts.
helium42 wrote:
I may have missed it, as I skimmed through much of this thread, but is there a release date for the box set yet?
Surely the Dark Angels will be like the ones included in the new style paintsets? Very much like the AoBR ones were like the marines in the older paint set.
HairySticks wrote:Surely the Dark Angels will be like the ones included in the new style paintsets? Very much like the AoBR ones were like the marines in the older paint set.
That is an excellent point!
The marines above are not AOBR or Macraage marines, and they aren't the push-fits from the $10 for 3 marines box. Could these be some of the boxed set marines?
HairySticks wrote:Surely the Dark Angels will be like the ones included in the new style paintsets? Very much like the AoBR ones were like the marines in the older paint set.
The Ultramarines in the old paintsets were different from the ones in AoBR (Black Reach had no molded on Ultramarine iconography) and I'll assume the same holds true. I won't complain if there's DA iconography all over the starter set dudes, but I'd prefer they were generic enough to use for anybody.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The link is rather... well... impossible to read. Can someone post the pics for the Chinese-illiterate?
看起来现在你需要学习！
Looks like it's time to learn!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
angryboy2k wrote:
haroon wrote:I am not sure why this rumor is particularly credible? Baidu is a search engine not a forum. Did i miss something, who exactly "leaked" this?
This was released by the people in Shanghai that GW asked to translate the starter into Chinese. In previous years, the Taiwanese distro/shop was involved in the translation as well, but this year the rep told them that they were only giving the starter to their people in Shanghai "for reasons of secrecy" as they were afraid the Taiwanese guys would release the information on the web.
I think the guys in Shanghai have had the box for around a week.
HairySticks wrote:Surely the Dark Angels will be like the ones included in the new style paintsets? Very much like the AoBR ones were like the marines in the older paint set.
The Ultramarines in the old paintsets were different from the ones in AoBR (Black Reach had no molded on Ultramarine iconography) and I'll assume the same holds true. I won't complain if there's DA iconography all over the starter set dudes, but I'd prefer they were generic enough to use for anybody.
I'd be shocked if they were Dark Angels in anything other than name and the way they get painted on the box art.
These are incredibly unlikely to be emo-bathrobe wearing Marines. They'll probably be very similar to the AOBR set in that they are easy to assemble, generic Marines that they can sell a billion of to everyone who would possibly want to play any color of Space Marines. And hey, with them not being Ultramarines, people will stop crying about GW always using the Ultramarines, at least for a little while. That's always a bonus.
@ adamsouza; "I sense taint on this one.... but we shall soon get to the truth." I for one am looking forward to some new Dark Angel models. And the Chaos Cultists would go nicely with my Cypher model.
I seriously doubt that they would leave off all iconogrpahy. How are you supposed to do Ravenwing Bikes without the DA specific wings on the bikes? It's just not going to happen.
Still, I can't wait to pick up the bikes. I've been looking for some good fast attack stuff to add to my SM army.
I would like to see a little variety in the usual push-fit marines that we are used to. They all had pretty much the same pose and while chopping the head off and putting a normal one in its place worked well enough, more variety to begin with would be nice!
I would not mind if the DA were covered in symbols, sure it could be a pain to remove them but if it gives us a more detailed starter set I am all for it.
If this terrain rumour is true, I bet we would see something along the lines of the old chapel GW released about five years ago, I miss that thing!
The Alpha Legion used to be so cool before GW went overboard on the secret squirrel super spy nonsense. I liked them when they were just sneaky jerks who excelled at fomenting rebellions and training cultists.
Uhlan wrote:The idea is to ENTICE someone to post some pictures if they had access, say, to the Chinese factory that produces them. However, my comment is generally meant to be tongue and cheek. I wouldn't want some factory worker making .35 an hour to lose his or her job because of my wants and needs.
Still, the ridiculous conversation sparked in the thread is good for a laugh... or two.
i was under the impression that games workshop cast their models in the UK and the USA
spaceXjam wrote:
i was under the impression that games workshop cast their models in the UK and the USA
Some of their stuff is made in China, like the larger terrain kits and bags and junk. My Gamer's Edition bag, Servo Skull tape measure, and Temple of Skulls all say MADE IN CHINA on them.
Cerebrium wrote:Yeah, as I said, what would be the point of calling them Ravenwing and Deathwing if they're just bikers and terminators.
They'll have some kind of iconography on them, I guarantee it.
In the past GW supplied transfer sheets with the chapter specific icongraphy. What would be cheaper for them, molded chapter icons or a transfer sheet, will probably decide the question for GW.
Now, has anyone bought the new basic paint set with the DA marines? Do they have molded icons? As another poster pointed out earlier, those are probably the marines that will be in the new boxed set come September.
Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Now, has anyone bought the new basic paint set with the DA marines? Do they have molded icons? As another poster pointed out earlier, those are probably the marines that will be in the new boxed set come September.
They have them molded on. However as others point out, the starter painter set for 5th had Ultramarine Icons. Yet the AoBR do not
Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Now, has anyone bought the new basic paint set with the DA marines? Do they have molded icons? As another poster pointed out earlier, those are probably the marines that will be in the new boxed set come September.
They have them molded on. However as others point out, the starter painter set for 5th had Ultramarine Icons. Yet the AoBR do not
I don't see it as being "cheaper". If you have the models without the icons, then you'll sell more. It becomes a question of cost vs volume.
What made AOBR popular was the fact that all of its models were suitable for just about any Space Marine faction you chose to play (they'd look a little plain in a Space Wolves army I guess). I can't imagine for a second that Games Workshop screws with that formula. Actually, what suprised me is that they didn't even package up an AOBR lite that omitted the rules and such, lol. I guess it tells you how cheap the other bits in that box were if they figured they wouldn't make more money by omitting them and offering a slightly lower price point.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:I don't see it as being "cheaper". If you have the models without the icons, then you'll sell more. It becomes a question of cost vs volume.
What made AOBR popular was the fact that all of its models were suitable for just about any Space Marine faction you chose to play (they'd look a little plain in a Space Wolves army I guess). I can't imagine for a second that Games Workshop screws with that formula. Actually, what suprised me is that they didn't even package up an AOBR lite that omitted the rules and such, lol. I guess it tells you how cheap the other bits in that box were if they figured they wouldn't make more money by omitting them and offering a slightly lower price point.
The funny part, the only leagal Army you could build from AOBR is a Space Wolf List
The Terminator Sarge Becomes Logan
The 4 other Terminators become Wolf Guard [Troops Becouse of Logan]
9x Grey Hunters
Dred
The Cap and the Misille Launcher become Long Fangs
Veteran Sergeant wrote:I don't see it as being "cheaper". If you have the models without the icons, then you'll sell more. It becomes a question of cost vs volume.
What made AOBR popular was the fact that all of its models were suitable for just about any Space Marine faction you chose to play (they'd look a little plain in a Space Wolves army I guess). I can't imagine for a second that Games Workshop screws with that formula. Actually, what suprised me is that they didn't even package up an AOBR lite that omitted the rules and such, lol. I guess it tells you how cheap the other bits in that box were if they figured they wouldn't make more money by omitting them and offering a slightly lower price point.
The funny part, the only leagal Army you could build from AOBR is a Space Wolf List
The Terminator Sarge Becomes Logan
The 4 other Terminators become Wolf Guard [Troops Becouse of Logan]
9x Grey Hunters
Dred
The Cap and the Misille Launcher become Long Fangs
Which follows in the fine tradition of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition boxed sets not being able to make a legal 40k army for vanilla marines and/or the chapter pictured on the box. I can't comment on the 2nd edition box as it predates my 40k gaming though.
Idk if I like the idea of cultists. It gives GW a reason to give CSM the same guys with high points cost or draw backs, with the excuse hey you could always field a boat load of cultists.
warboss wrote:
Which follows in the fine tradition of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition boxed sets not being able to make a legal 40k army for vanilla marines and/or the chapter pictured on the box. I can't comment on the 2nd edition box as it predates my 40k gaming though.
2nd edition was the same in that it also did not include a legal army for either side.
It came with:
-2 Marine Tactical Squads (Sgt, Flamer, Missile and 7 grunts)
20 orks (bolter and axe)
40 Gretchin, aka grots (autogun)
1 Cardboard standup of an Ork Dreadnaught. I've got four of these I want to put on the table someday just to mess with my opponent.
In fairness, 5th edition was pretty close to a complete legal army. You only need one more unit, right?
protonhunter wrote:Idk if I like the idea of cultists. It gives GW a reason to give CSM the same guys with high points cost or draw backs, with the excuse hey you could always field a boat load of cultists.
Yeah. Cause chaos is a top tier army and all.
Chaos has some of the highest point basic troops in the game. As an extremely elite army we would get clobbered by hordes, and any loss of a troop really hurt us since we literally didnt have a cheap unit we could use to tarpit the enemy with. Chaos needed cultists both from a game balance perspective and from a fluff perspective.
just my .o2$
Veteran Sergeant wrote:I don't see it as being "cheaper". If you have the models without the icons, then you'll sell more. It becomes a question of cost vs volume.
What made AOBR popular was the fact that all of its models were suitable for just about any Space Marine faction you chose to play (they'd look a little plain in a Space Wolves army I guess). I can't imagine for a second that Games Workshop screws with that formula. Actually, what suprised me is that they didn't even package up an AOBR lite that omitted the rules and such, lol. I guess it tells you how cheap the other bits in that box were if they figured they wouldn't make more money by omitting them and offering a slightly lower price point.
The funny part, the only leagal Army you could build from AOBR is a Space Wolf List
The Terminator Sarge Becomes Logan
The 4 other Terminators become Wolf Guard [Troops Becouse of Logan]
9x Grey Hunters
Dred
The Cap and the Misille Launcher become Long Fangs
Which follows in the fine tradition of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition boxed sets not being able to make a legal 40k army for vanilla marines and/or the chapter pictured on the box. I can't comment on the 2nd edition box as it predates my 40k gaming though.
It's almost as if they want you to buy more miniatures or something!?1!?111
spaceXjam wrote:
i was under the impression that games workshop cast their models in the UK and the USA
Some of their stuff is made in China, like the larger terrain kits and bags and junk. My Gamer's Edition bag, Servo Skull tape measure, and Temple of Skulls all say MADE IN CHINA on them.
sennacherib wrote:
Chaos has some of the highest point basic troops in the game. As an extremely elite army we would get clobbered by hordes, and any loss of a troop really hurt us since we literally didnt have a cheap unit we could use to tarpit the enemy with. Chaos needed cultists both from a game balance perspective and from a fluff perspective.
just my .o2$
I completely agree! The closest thing CSM have to a speedbump/chaff unit now is lesser daemons, which are too pricey to rely on for that purpose. Space Marines have scouts, CSM need something along similar lines.
Which means, make products in China, finish the packing in UK, still brand them as made in UK
Not actually true.
Items packed in UK = items packed in UK. It's not legal to claim that they are made in the UK unless the product undergoes a specific complex final process in the UK that can't be performed in the country that the rest of the manufacturing process was performed in.
spiralingcadaver wrote:IIRC, Marines were short an HQ for a legal army, as were Orks. Basically, a ton of marines, Boyz, Grots, and a paper Dread (standee) and scenery.
HQ's weren't required for Orks or Marines in 2nd edition. Both 2nd ed Starter armies were legal... just small and fairly boring.
spiralingcadaver wrote:IIRC, Marines were short an HQ for a legal army, as were Orks. Basically, a ton of marines, Boyz, Grots, and a paper Dread (standee) and scenery.
HQ's weren't required for Orks or Marines in 2nd edition. Both 2nd ed Starter armies were legal... just small and fairly boring.
My mistake.
You're absolutely right! I forgot that force org charts (except for IG) started with 3rd ed. Back in 2nd edition you just had to have a certain percentage of troops and you were limited to a certain percentage of characters, allies, etc...
LunaHound wrote:
There is something GW doesn't like their customers to know.
Items packed in UK = made in UK.
Which means, make products in China, finish the packing in UK, still brand them as made in UK
It's the same thing here in Canada with food. Broccoli came from the U.S., but in a bag in Canada and now it is made in Canada.
Ok, I cannot have a Chaos Space Brocoli army but I know I will pay more than 150$ for the starter set.
hellpato wrote:It's the same thing here in Canada with food. Broccoli came from the U.S., but in a bag in Canada and now it is made in Canada.
Also not true.
Canadian Food Inspection Agency wrote:"*A product is "wholly manufactured in a country other than Canada..." when it has not undergone any processing in Canada and its nature remains the same. For example, repackaging and labelling a product does not change the nature of the product.
Examples:
Frozen carrots are imported from Belgium and repackaged in Canada; the packaging operation does not change the nature of the product. Therefore, the label must read: "Product of Belgium"
Olives are imported from Spain and repackaged in Canada in their original brine; they remain a "Product of Spain"
My mistake Insaniak, what I remembered was a long time ago but it was label product of canada when it was pack in canada... must check information before wrting.....
ps sorry for my bad spelling, french canadian trying to write in english
There are all sorts of variations in the specific wording. The common one down here in Oz (and the one GW are now using locally on a lot of their product) is 'Packaged in Australia', for product manufactured (or grown/produced/whatever) in other countries and put in a box here in Oz.
sennacherib wrote:
Chaos has some of the highest point basic troops in the game. As an extremely elite army we would get clobbered by hordes, and any loss of a troop really hurt us since we literally didnt have a cheap unit we could use to tarpit the enemy with. Chaos needed cultists both from a game balance perspective and from a fluff perspective.
just my .o2$
sennacherib wrote:And when is the rumored box set rumored to be due out?
Congratulation! You are the fivehundredths Dakka member to ask this question
What!!!
only the fivehundredths Dakka member to ask this? Thats IT. i QUIT . Dakka must be slipping if i am only that many people have asked this question.
Yes. Which is why they were Blood Angels and 2nd Ed and Black Templars in 3rd Ed.
So far only 50% of the starter boxes have been Ultramarine, so let's dial back the Ultrahate.
You forgot:Crimson Fists in 1st edition, that my post was meant as humorous, and that the 2nd and 3rd edition marines were Chapter Free models, and not actually chapter specific at all.
sennacherib wrote:
Chaos has some of the highest point basic troops in the game. As an extremely elite army we would get clobbered by hordes, and any loss of a troop really hurt us since we literally didnt have a cheap unit we could use to tarpit the enemy with. Chaos needed cultists both from a game balance perspective and from a fluff perspective.
just my .o2$
Commander Cain wrote:I can see it now, the chaos marines will be the exact same as the normal marines but come with clip-on spikes!
Many loyalist players would rejoice in that
Heck, maybe the cultists look more like redemptions with clip on spikes!
I'm going to run away now
I would welcome a less fanatical cultist- simply because it would emphasize the moral ambiguity and easy straying that is supposed to lead to cults arising. Now the leaders should be flamboyant enough to make Slaanesh itself blush, but the rank and file could be very similar to Imperium citizenry as far as I'm concerned.
sennacherib wrote:
Chaos has some of the highest point basic troops in the game. As an extremely elite army we would get clobbered by hordes, and any loss of a troop really hurt us since we literally didnt have a cheap unit we could use to tarpit the enemy with. Chaos needed cultists both from a game balance perspective and from a fluff perspective.
just my .o2$
Agreed.
Yea...CSM's are 15 points a piece. SHOCK, HORROR!
Typical, no-frills CSM costs 15 points a piece. He's basically a walking, T4 3+ bolter.
Loyalist SM costs 16 points a piece. As well as having everything the CSM has going for him, they also get ATSKNF, combat squads and Combat tactics. For ONE point more.
Then let's bring it up to a squad level:
10-man tactical squad with sergeant, flamer and missile launcher. Pretty standard, jack-of-all-trades unit, 170 points.
10-man CSM squad with champ, flamer and missile launcher. Again, jack-of-all-trades unit. 180 points.
Doesn't seem like much of a difference? Again, ATSKNF, combat squads and combat tactics is the kicker. That SM squad can split the special weapon and heavy weapon into two squads, so both can be used effectively at the same time. CSM have to basically choose between "Get into range for the flamer" or "stand still and use the ML". Then, if they get into combat, they can voluntarily fall back for another round of shooting. And WHEN they're falling back, they automatically regroup, so there's not even any risk involved.
CSM are WOEFULLY overpriced for their capabilities.
Gitzbitah wrote:
I would welcome a less fanatical cultist- simply because it would emphasize the moral ambiguity and easy straying that is supposed to lead to cults arising. Now the leaders should be flamboyant enough to make Slaanesh itself blush, but the rank and file could be very similar to Imperium citizenry as far as I'm concerned.
Unfortunately GW's obsession with GRIMDARK all but ensures that they will be covered in skulls and spikey bits. My own traitor guard are standard Cadians with headswaps (using a variety of fantasy human heads) with no spikey bits to be seen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So has this "rumor" thread devolved into a discussion on the price of marines?
We are 2 months away from release, we are unlikely to get any more info for at least a month, what did you expect would happen?
Cerebrium wrote:Well, considering even C:SM players argue that tactical squads are pretty crap, I'm going to go with my hypothesis
In your analysis you left out that CSM have two CC weapons standard while C:SMTac Marines don't get that option. That certainly makes up for a bit of it. You also left out the leadership options that CSM have, rerollable tests, etc.
Cerebrium wrote:Well, considering even C:SM players argue that tactical squads are pretty crap, I'm going to go with my hypothesis
In your analysis you left out that CSM have two CC weapons standard while C:SMTac Marines don't get that option. That certainly makes up for a bit of it. You also left out the leadership options that CSM have, rerollable tests, etc.
Yes, the extra attack is nice, but I wouldn't count Icon of Chaos Glory, as I was going barebones, and IoCG is 10 points extra.
Point for point, including their fancy special rules, tactical marines are simply BETTER than CSM.
quilava1 wrote:2 HQs in the DA, No Reg. Marines in the Chaos, Bikes in a Starter Set!!! Either this is fabrication or GWs smoking something :(
or maybe they are trying to do a legitimately good job of introducing new players to the game?
librarian to teach psyker rules.
the other 2 hq's to show the warlord stuff.
deffkopta's are fine but bikes are unfathomable?
chaos is supposed to be getting an update soon.
there hasn't been regular marines on both sides for a while now, why do it? it sends a mixed message by making it look like all the "regular" infantry have a 3+ save...
*insert deity here* forbid that GW actually try to do a good job with this.
quilava1 wrote:2 HQs in the DA, No Reg. Marines in the Chaos, Bikes in a Starter Set!!! Either this is fabrication or GWs smoking something :(
or maybe they are trying to do a legitimately good job of introducing new players to the game?
librarian to teach psyker rules.
the other 2 hq's to show the warlord stuff.
deffkopta's are fine but bikes are unfathomable?
chaos is supposed to be getting an update soon.
there hasn't been regular marines on both sides for a while now, why do it? it sends a mixed message by making it look like all the "regular" infantry have a 3+ save...
*insert deity here* forbid that GW actually try to do a good job with this.
As someone pointed out, the set covers every main grouping of models.
Cultists: Light, disposable infantry.
Tactical Marines: Middle-of-the-line generic space marines.
Chosen: Elite, veteran infantry.
Terminators: Heavy 2+ infantry.
Lord: CC, beatstick character.
Librarian: Support character.
Bikes
Dread
Cerebrium wrote:Well, considering even C:SM players argue that tactical squads are pretty crap, I'm going to go with my hypothesis
In your analysis you left out that CSM have two CC weapons standard while C:SMTac Marines don't get that option. That certainly makes up for a bit of it. You also left out the leadership options that CSM have, rerollable tests, etc.
+1 Ld is nothing compared to ATSSNF. I would take Ld 4 and ATSSNF over Ld 10.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
I think that would ax extremely cool thing so see a starter set with Imperial Guard as the "good guys" option, but plain and simple, Space Marines sell.
At first I didn't buy into GW issuing a Space Marines vs Chaos Marines set simply for power armor overload. But if it truly has cultists in it it's both A: more understandable, and B: pretty awesome. Chaos Cults are one of the principle elements of the fluff, and they've been absent from the game for way, way too long.
So the bikes will have
Sgt with chainsword
And a rider with a plasma and a bolt pistol. Which means they can be easily convertable.
I cant wait to get my hands on bikes for 18$ for 3.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
I think that would ax extremely cool thing so see a starter set with Imperial Guard as the "good guys" option, but plain and simple, Space Marines sell.
At first I didn't buy into GW issuing a Space Marines vs Chaos Marines set simply for power armor overload. But if it truly has cultists in it it's both A: more understandable, and B: pretty awesome. Chaos Cults are one of the principle elements of the fluff, and they've been absent from the game for way, way too long.
Now, bring back the Genestealer Cults!
Funny, Games Work shop cant keep up with their fluff! They could do a real cool job on Genestealer Cults, too.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
Problem there is that Guard are known as much for their tanks as for their mass of grunts. Tanks wouldn't really be a feasible starter item I don't think, and when you take those away it would take a TON of grunts to make up the difference in points.
hotsauceman1 wrote:So the bikes will have
Sgt with chainsword
And a rider with a plasma and a bolt pistol. Which means they can be easily convertable.
I cant wait to get my hands on bikes for 18$ for 3.
I'm really looking forward to both new bike models and affordable ones at that. $15 for a model old enough to vote (it may have been recut but the core model problems remain the same) isn't exactly conducive to biker armies! I figure that no matter how simplified the starter set bikes are, they'll be an improvement as well.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
Problem there is that Guard are known as much for their tanks as for their mass of grunts. Tanks wouldn't really be a feasible starter item I don't think, and when you take those away it would take a TON of grunts to make up the difference in points.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
Problem there is that Guard are known as much for their tanks as for their mass of grunts. Tanks wouldn't really be a feasible starter item I don't think, and when you take those away it would take a TON of grunts to make up the difference in points.
Maybe some Sentinels?
I suppose, then, the only way it could work is with Sentinels and fighting another weak infantry army such as Eldar Guardians.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
Problem there is that Guard are known as much for their tanks as for their mass of grunts. Tanks wouldn't really be a feasible starter item I don't think, and when you take those away it would take a TON of grunts to make up the difference in points.
Maybe some Sentinels?
I think GW tries to make the Starterboxes different then the Battleforces. If it would be only infantry and some Sentinels it would be pretty much the same.
Gitzbitah wrote:
I would welcome a less fanatical cultist- simply because it would emphasize the moral ambiguity and easy straying that is supposed to lead to cults arising. Now the leaders should be flamboyant enough to make Slaanesh itself blush, but the rank and file could be very similar to Imperium citizenry as far as I'm concerned.
Unfortunately GW's obsession with GRIMDARK all but ensures that they will be covered in skulls and spikey bits. My own traitor guard are standard Cadians with headswaps (using a variety of fantasy human heads) with no spikey bits to be seen.
I agree with the general consensus that there is too much SPIKEY SKULLLZZ going on with Chaos Space Marines. I plan to make a little Allied detachment (for my Necron main army) out of the Chaos portion of the starter set. With that in mind, I've been trying to think up a more creative way to represent Daemon-worshiping super-humans and their fanatical cult cannon fodder that isn't standard issue Spike+Skull+ +Eye (of Horus?) if you're lucky.
I'm thinking of going with more death imagery, like a really fanatical death cult. Not worshiping any of the 4 Chaos gods of GW, but rather being devoted to death (I've always thought it was silly the way they divided it into these 4 specific Daemon-gods/characteristics). I'd dial back the amount of SKULLZ and the cartoonishness of them, but perhaps add in more actual skulls, bones, spattered blood, sacrificial victims, etc. Make them genuinely creepy rather than some silly caricature-esque Heavy Metal fantasy.
-This made for a very interesting, lengthy read.
I am excited, especially if i could add the DA to my ranks of SM, as for the chaos, i have no idea probably sell onto a buddy, and as for the possibility of scenery, YES YES YES!
Cjc1223 wrote:Not sure if anybody has said this yet, but I just noticed the cover of my rulebook has DA fighting chaos on it.
Aaaaand the last horse crosses the finishing line. (Just kidding )
There has been a lot of build up to this including dark angels on white dwarf spines dark angels in the paint set dark angels in this dark angels in this. There have been many a sign to it.
inigo_montoya112 wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some Imperial Guard in a starter set instead of Space Marines. But Dark Angels deserve this one.
Problem there is that Guard are known as much for their tanks as for their mass of grunts. Tanks wouldn't really be a feasible starter item I don't think, and when you take those away it would take a TON of grunts to make up the difference in points.
If Guard appeared in the starter set then we would see some elites, my guess would be ogryns making an apperence somewhere to "bulk out" the IG side
and on the chaos stuff do you think chaos cultists are going to be similar to the last ones that go produced, long black robes laspistols and clubs etc or will the look more like the blood pact or sons of sekh? described in fluff?
hopefully the chaos stuff is not going to be too badly embossed with the Horus Eye. or at least easy to carve out or scrape off. myself i still cant decide which chaos warband to collect but thats for a different thread i think
I don't know if anyone's said this, but I get the feeling that Cultists are going to be just like the Eldar Guardians, minus weapon platforms. Cheap, 3's for stats.
Maybe chaos will get a Chimera in the new dex.
kenzosan wrote:I don't know if anyone's said this, but I get the feeling that Cultists are going to be just like the Eldar Guardians, minus weapon platforms. Cheap, 3's for stats.
Maybe chaos will get a Chimera in the new dex.
I think they used to just be Imprial Guard stat line with a lower leadership. Probably with option for low tech special/heavy weapons like Heavy Stubbers and Flamers.
I agree with the general consensus that there is too much SPIKEY SKULLLZZ going on with Chaos Space Marines. I plan to make a little Allied detachment (for my Necron main army) out of the Chaos portion of the starter set. With that in mind, I've been trying to think up a more creative way to represent Daemon-worshiping super-humans and their fanatical cult cannon fodder that isn't standard issue Spike+Skull+ +Eye (of Horus?) if you're lucky.
... Make them genuinely creepy rather than some silly caricature-esque Heavy Metal fantasy.
I assume you've seen the movie "Ghosts of Mars"?
A couple of stills I found.
They'd make great chaos cultists, who knows maybe the red dust in the film were lots of tiny demons.
I dearly hope that the Cultists get an option for at least some form of transport in the new 'dex. Even if its something like the Ork Trukk, I at least want my cultists to be able to keep up with a mechanised CSM force.
I agree with the general consensus that there is too much SPIKEY SKULLLZZ going on with Chaos Space Marines. I plan to make a little Allied detachment (for my Necron main army) out of the Chaos portion of the starter set. With that in mind, I've been trying to think up a more creative way to represent Daemon-worshiping super-humans and their fanatical cult cannon fodder that isn't standard issue Spike+Skull+ +Eye (of Horus?) if you're lucky.
... Make them genuinely creepy rather than some silly caricature-esque Heavy Metal fantasy.
I assume you've seen the movie "Ghosts of Mars"?
A couple of stills I found.
They'd make great chaos cultists, who knows maybe the red dust in the film were lots of tiny demons.
That movie was soooooo bad. I own it since we got give a bunch of $10 movies for Christmas. They are all bad. But yes, they do make good cultists, since thats pretty much what they are. Khorne cultists.
Ledabot wrote:I think that they will be wanting other things first. I expect a razorback before a chimera.
Who knows. The point was more on shoving a ton of cultists in a can.
adamsouza wrote:
kenzosan wrote:I don't know if anyone's said this, but I get the feeling that Cultists are going to be just like the Eldar Guardians, minus weapon platforms. Cheap, 3's for stats.
Maybe chaos will get a Chimera in the new dex.
I think they used to just be Imprial Guard stat line with a lower leadership. Probably with option for low tech special/heavy weapons like Heavy Stubbers and Flamers.
Guardians and IG are the same stat line. I choose Eldar simply because that's what I play. And who knows what options they'll have. They're most likely going to be cheap and that's the point.
I agree with the general consensus that there is too much SPIKEY SKULLLZZ going on with Chaos Space Marines. I plan to make a little Allied detachment (for my Necron main army) out of the Chaos portion of the starter set. With that in mind, I've been trying to think up a more creative way to represent Daemon-worshiping super-humans and their fanatical cult cannon fodder that isn't standard issue Spike+Skull+ +Eye (of Horus?) if you're lucky.
... Make them genuinely creepy rather than some silly caricature-esque Heavy Metal fantasy.
I assume you've seen the movie "Ghosts of Mars"?
...
They'd make great chaos cultists, who knows maybe the red dust in the film were lots of tiny demons.
I haven't seen that one, but maybe I should check it out, if only for the costume/production design (if it really is as bad as the other posters said it is).
Once the set hits, Chaos Cultist Conversions here I come!
Ktulhut wrote:As wishlisty as it is, a chimaera would be coolfun. 12 man chaos units with a taxi? Yes please.
Knowing GW, if they did allow chaos chimeras, they would probably limit it to only be able to transport cultists/non power armour people.
Fluffwise it's a bit of a squeeze to fit space marines in the back of a chimera. (If need be I can quote a novel)
I haven't seen that one, but maybe I should check it out, if only for the costume/production design (if it really is as bad as the other posters said it is).
Ktulhut wrote:As wishlisty as it is, a chimaera would be coolfun. 12 man chaos units with a taxi? Yes please.
Knowing GW, if they did allow chaos chimeras, they would probably limit it to only be able to transport cultists/non power armour people.
Fluffwise it's a bit of a squeeze to fit space marines in the back of a chimera. (If need be I can quote a novel)
Please don't!
Next thing you now, we'll be hearing about Marines surfing on Rhinos and even worse, we'll be hearing about...multilasers.
kenzosan wrote:I don't know if anyone's said this, but I get the feeling that Cultists are going to be just like the Eldar Guardians, minus weapon platforms. Cheap, 3's for stats.
Maybe chaos will get a Chimera in the new dex.
Cultists have standard IG stats except that they have a 6+ save, supposedly at least. I would imagine that cultists will only get a couple of unit entries in the new chaos dex, possibly little more than a single troop choice.
Ktulhut wrote:As wishlisty as it is, a chimaera would be coolfun. 12 man chaos units with a taxi? Yes please.
Knowing GW, if they did allow chaos chimeras, they would probably limit it to only be able to transport cultists/non power armour people.
Fluffwise it's a bit of a squeeze to fit space marines in the back of a chimera. (If need be I can quote a novel)
Please don't!
Next thing you now, we'll be hearing about Marines surfing on Rhinos and even worse, we'll be hearing about...multilasers.
And Terminators doing back flips.
And children downing a Falcon with rocks.
You get the picture...
Sounds like the best FanDex ever, or the worst Black Library Book ever. Were these your 12' tall Terminators, or only 9'?
Gorechild wrote:
No, not at all. What he means is that GW have said they will never drop (discontinue all the models + rules) an army again, like how, back in the day, they wrote the Squats out of 40k entirely. You will still be required to use the most recent version of your army's rules (unless you pre-arrange a friendly game at home for example).
So basically, GW have said that all the codecies that exist now will continue to get updated/supported with new models and rules for the forseeable future (not necessarily very quickly though ). Unless GW changes their mind again of course.
I could just imagine GW breaking into my house and beating me down for not using current-edition rules in my friendly games of 40k. Trashing the place up, breaking my stuff, assaulting my friends, you know, the stuff I stay away from the stores to avoid
Back OT; I've been lusting after some Cultists for a while. I know a lot of people are against the idea, but Chaos are much more limited in Marines than the Imperium, and I've always felt they should be in smaller squads only buffed up a bit. These are guys who have survived eons in the Warp; use the Cultists for the Anvil, use the limited Marines for the Hammer. (Now, I'm not advocating making them 'Elites' or something crazy like that, but let them live up to their Veteran status!)
LordofRust wrote:
I could just imagine GW breaking into my house and beating me down for not using current-edition rules in my friendly games of 40k. Trashing the place up, breaking my stuff, assaulting my friends, you know, the stuff I stay away from the stores to avoid
That actually happened to me, back in 3rd edition. Let me tell you this: GW got rid of Andy Chambers because he enjoyed the brutality too much, not because of "creative differences". The man still owes me for 3 teeth.
LordofRust wrote:
I could just imagine GW breaking into my house and beating me down for not using current-edition rules in my friendly games of 40k. Trashing the place up, breaking my stuff, assaulting my friends, you know, the stuff I stay away from the stores to avoid
That actually happened to me, back in 3rd edition. Let me tell you this: GW got rid of Andy Chambers because he enjoyed the brutality too much, not because of "creative differences". The man still owes me for 3 teeth.
Nice! I just got "The Look" at work for laughing for 'no apparent reason while about my soulless corporate tasks' - thanks!
Hopefully the design team have taken the opportunity to finally flesh out the most prominent and prolific enemy the Imperium has - renegade and cult humans!. About time! just don't make them crappy copies of guardsmen.
Just because they are outside of the Imperium doesn't make them spiky/skull lovers; they should think more wildlings/free men.
Chaos doesn't always mean the loss of any semblance of military structure/society, it's just the rejection of the "order" of the machine of the Imperium. I think at times that dark dystopian side of of humanity is forgotten on the Chaos side of things.
If things work out and they get a fully formed idea in the book to allow you to field cult armies, it will to me be the biggest change in the tabletop envisioning of the background for a long time
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofRust wrote:
Gorechild wrote:
Back OT; I've been lusting after some Cultists for a while. I know a lot of people are against the idea, but Chaos are much more limited in Marines than the Imperium, and I've always felt they should be in smaller squads only buffed up a bit. These are guys who have survived eons in the Warp; use the Cultists for the Anvil, use the limited Marines for the Hammer. (Now, I'm not advocating making them 'Elites' or something crazy like that, but let them live up to their Veteran status!)
This. I always thought 40K marines are poor echos of the glorious marines of 30K, perhaps chaos marines should be better then imperial marines, but in limited number?
Wardragoon wrote:A Librarian doesnt quite sound feasible IMO, a little complex for people completely new to 40k
Fantasy's Starter Set is quite fine with a wizard, and their stuff is even more complex
Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
Wardragoon wrote:A Librarian doesnt quite sound feasible IMO, a little complex for people completely new to 40k
Fantasy's Starter Set is quite fine with a wizard, and their stuff is even more complex
Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
Well, we might get 'I love my bolter and my robes.', you never know...
kenzosan wrote:I don't know if anyone's said this, but I get the feeling that Cultists are going to be just like the Eldar Guardians, minus weapon platforms. Cheap, 3's for stats.
Maybe chaos will get a Chimera in the new dex.
Cultists have standard IG stats except that they have a 6+ save, supposedly at least. I would imagine that cultists will only get a couple of unit entries in the new chaos dex, possibly little more than a single troop choice.
Given how generic they are (i.e. representing potentially a lot of things), I'd guess either being able to use the squad as a couple things, or rules for upgrades (like IG vets) so a single entry can represent multiple types. Pure speculation, though, other than GW's recent trend towards most plastics getting them a return on investment by being multiple entries (many vehicles, a bunch of the Necron plastics, just about every Grey Knight kit, etc).
Personally I'm hoping for cultists that look exactly like the ones in DoW2 but I might be alone in that.
As long as they're not a throwback to the era of shirtless dudes in skirts wearing 3E WHFB dark elf hats, we should be fine...
Brother SRM wrote:Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
Yeah, the starter sets improve in leaps and bounds and IoB is gorgeous. I suspect we'll still get a heap of marines in the old Epic pose, but at least they'll be super detailed!
Brother SRM wrote:
...Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
The 'I love my bolter' marines are already available in the 40k starter paint set. that's why those models have moulded DA insignia.
Brother SRM wrote:
...Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
The 'I love my bolter' marines are already available in the 40k starter paint set. that's why those models have moulded DA insignia.
The insignia on those models doesn't necessarily mean it will be present on the ones in the starter set. The old paint set had Ultramarine markings while the models in AoBR did not. The Marines in the paint set are also redecos of the AoBR Marines - the Black Reach iconography (the starburst with a skull) is gone, but the other detailing (helmet types, straps and scopes on bolters, etc) is identical. I'm hoping and assuming the Marines in the new starter will be new sculpts altogether, even if they are still in that pose.
Brother SRM wrote:
...Speaking of the Fantasy starter set, I'm really excited to see how good these figures will look! Each starter set has improved on the last, with Black Reach being a big improvement from Battle for Macragge and Isle of Blood being a step up from AoBR. It's probably too optimistic to expect Marines in another pose from "I love my bolter" but we can only hope things have gotten that much better!
The 'I love my bolter' marines are already available in the 40k starter paint set. that's why those models have moulded DA insignia.
The insignia on those models doesn't necessarily mean it will be present on the ones in the starter set. The old paint set had Ultramarine markings while the models in AoBR did not. The Marines in the paint set are also redecos of the AoBR Marines - the Black Reach iconography (the starburst with a skull) is gone, but the other detailing (helmet types, straps and scopes on bolters, etc) is identical. I'm hoping and assuming the Marines in the new starter will be new sculpts altogether, even if they are still in that pose.
Well I hope one would at least have a mark IV helmet on
i just got an email from a friend up in one of the GW north american warehouses. he told me the starter box has necrons, not chaos. he emailed me some pics, and a roster list, but im at work and unable to open them. in any case he indicated we would be seeing something along the lines of:
sm character
sm dread
a bunch of marines
termies
aegis line (no gun)
some craters
a necron character
bunch of warriors
a few "bulkier warriors" (immortals?)
aprox 3 tombblades
a bunch of scarabs (he figured at least 10 bases)
plus the standard dice, measureing sticks, templates and small book.
no idea if this is acurate or not, and obvisouly once i get home and ahold of pics ill post em, so take with a large grain of cinnamon (because salt is cliche)
kenshin620 wrote:Necrons? Thats...kinda "out there" as of right now
Well didn't AoBR feature the last army to be given a codex in 4e, if so that would make sense (weren't the Necrons the last army codex in 5e)
But the last 4th codex was Chaos Daemons (written to the tone of 5th though)
My comment though was just that so far all rumors point to chaos. If it isnt them then thats a whole lot of mislead people (I'm sure we dont want a summer of fliers 2.0!)
kenshin620 wrote:Necrons? Thats...kinda "out there" as of right now
Well didn't AoBR feature the last army to be given a codex in 4e, if so that would make sense (weren't the Necrons the last army codex in 5e)
But the last 4th codex was Chaos Daemons (written to the tone of 5th though)
My comment though was just that so far all rumors point to chaos. If it isnt them then thats a whole lot of mislead people (I'm sure we dont want a summer of fliers 2.0!)
Oh , I was alwayss told the Orks were the last codex in 4e XD, so I guess nevermind then lol.
It's INCREDIBLY unlikely that it'll be Necrons. I'm interested to see what the pictures he sent are, but every credible rumour source are all saying Dark Angels/Chaos.
DarthSpader wrote:i just got an email from a friend up in one of the GW north american warehouses. he told me the starter box has necrons, not chaos. he emailed me some pics, and a roster list, but im at work and unable to open them.
DarthSpader wrote:i just got an email from a friend up in one of the GW north american warehouses. he told me the starter box has necrons, not chaos. he emailed me some pics, and a roster list, but im at work and unable to open them.
If you open the pic, be prepared to either have your anti-virus program running or listen to Rick Astley.
DarthSpader wrote:i just got an email from a friend up in one of the GW north american warehouses. he told me the starter box has necrons, not chaos. he emailed me some pics, and a roster list, but im at work and unable to open them. in any case he indicated we would be seeing something along the lines of:
sm character
sm dread
a bunch of marines
termies
aegis line (no gun)
some craters
a necron character
bunch of warriors
a few "bulkier warriors" (immortals?)
aprox 3 tombblades
a bunch of scarabs (he figured at least 10 bases)
plus the standard dice, measureing sticks, templates and small book.
no idea if this is acurate or not, and obvisouly once i get home and ahold of pics ill post em, so take with a large grain of cinnamon (because salt is cliche)
I look foreword to these pics, since this is really out of left field....
Yea the pics failed :( just some shot f the side of a generic pallet. The "roster" was also just a PDF. But probally void have been made by anyone.
However this guy does not even play the game and he's been pretty right on other stuff. (no fliers last year for summer of fliers, the new fliers coming out, and 6th)
So I'm kinda inclined to believe him, but without credible proof I suppose that's a faith thing. Personally I don't think GW would do a double power army starter box, such as chaos, or even crons.... But it would be a good way to sell necrons.
Either way, the grain of cinnamon is still probally the proper thing here.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:You can still post the PDF can't you?
It just says the contents of the starter box as he already posted I imagine; if it could have been made by anyone, it probably wouldn't have pictures of sprues and models and junk.
d-usa wrote:Unless it looks like a pretty reasonable invoice/inventory type PDF it would seem strange that a warehouse has a PDF with content floating around.
That's my issue right their. It makes no sence for them to have something like that.
O.o
I'm sure DarthSpader means well, but I'm starting to get a feeling that this friend of his is Yanking his chain. No offence to you and your friend DarthSpader of course. That's just the impression I'm getting ATM.
This. I'm shocked that there's no pictures at all. Totally. I'm amazed there are no functional pictures to counter the info we're getting from other, fairly reputable sources.
This. I'm shocked that there's no pictures at all. Totally. I'm amazed there are no functional pictures to counter the info we're getting from other, fairly reputable sources.
DarthSpader, your friend is trolling you.
Have we seen any pictures of the supposed Chaos or Dark Angels? No? Then these other sources are just as much hearsay as DarthSpaders friend, with no actual evidence to back them up.
People are assuming the rumours to be accurate because they have been repeated a lot over quite a long time frame.
And because harry (and i believe hastings as well) have confirmed them. Don't get me wrong, I'd love cheap immortals but I'm rather sceptical as to the veracity of these rumours.
Sure, he means well but I have a little more faith in rumourmongers with a confirmed reputation for accuracy spanning several years.
Again, I'd like this to be true but, well...
There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
Gitzbitah wrote:There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
Yes, but last I checked there weren't any Necron units with 3s across the board and a 6+ save, which were obviously the Chaos cultists.
Gitzbitah wrote:An excellent point! So there is pictoral evidence of the chaos vs DA set. Your move, anonymous warehouse guy.
So the actual evidence for the DA vs Chaos set is a photo of a page of units and their stats in a language which most of us here cannot read? How is that any different to, or more reliable than, the PDF which DarthSpaders source saw?
If one could have been made by anybody then the other could also.
A Town Called Malus wrote:So the actual evidence for the DA vs Chaos set is a photo of a page of units and their stats in a language which most of us here cannot read? How is that any different to, or more reliable than, the PDF which DarthSpaders source saw?
If one could have been made by anybody then the other could also.
I am all for playing the devil's advocate but aren't you just being willfully obtuse at this point?
Blue Corner:
-Multiple respected "Rumour Mongers" agreeing that DA vs Chaos would be in the cards.
-Possible Leaked Army Lists with reasonable builds.
Red Corner:
-Some guy who got an unseen PDF from a friend.
While both are possible, my money is on the Blue corner.
A Town Called Malus wrote:So the actual evidence for the DA vs Chaos set is a photo of a page of units and their stats in a language which most of us here cannot read? How is that any different to, or more reliable than, the PDF which DarthSpaders source saw?
If one could have been made by anybody then the other could also.
I am all for playing the devil's advocate but aren't you just being willfully obtuse at this point?
Blue Corner:
-Multiple respected "Rumour Mongers" agreeing that DA vs Chaos would be in the cards.
-Possible Leaked Army Lists with reasonable builds.
Red Corner:
-Some guy who got an unseen PDF from a friend.
While both are possible, my money is on the Blue corner.
Not being obtuse, I'm saying that you should apply the same standards to a rumour no matter who it is from. Just because someone was right before does not mean they are right now.
Harry and Hastings have delivered consistent ACCURATE rumours for years.
Some friend of DarthSpader's who we don't even know about until now?
Well, it's kind of like trusting the 1 rumour that goes against the other 10.
Please note that the rulebook cover has DA vs. Chaos on it.
2nd ed. had BA vs. Orks (box was Orks and SM - painted by GW as BA)
3rd ed. had BT on the cover. (box was SM painted by GW as BT and DE)
This is the first book in a while to have actual art on the cover. And the Cover has Faction X vs. Faction Y - going by past history we can assume X and Y is what we will get.
Going for Faction W is pretty far out in the field.
DarkStarSabre wrote:Mate, we are applying standards.
Harry and Hastings have delivered consistent ACCURATE rumours for years.
Some friend of DarthSpader's who we don't even know about until now?
Well, it's kind of like trusting the 1 rumour that goes against the other 10.
Please note that the rulebook cover has DA vs. Chaos on it.
2nd ed. had BA vs. Orks (box was Orks and SM - painted by GW as BA)
3rd ed. had BT on the cover. (box was SM painted by GW as BT and DE)
This is the first book in a while to have actual art on the cover. And the Cover has Faction X vs. Faction Y - going by past history we can assume X and Y is what we will get.
Going for Faction W is pretty far out in the field.
Re-read my post. You are applying different standards to different people, based entirely on their history rather than the actual evidence they present in their rumours. One of these "respected" rumour mongers says it will be X, without any actual evidence to prove it and you accept that.
An unknown says it will be Y and puts forth some attempt at evidence and you just disregard it due to the fact that it disagrees with the previous rumour and you haven't heard of the person before.
Both rumours should be considered equal until more evidence surfaces to disprove one or the other.
The thing is though? Their history is what people will trust.
Someone with 90/100 rumours correct will have a bit more clout than someone with 1/10 or someone who's just reporting a rumour from nowhere.
The fact that several of the older and more accurate rumour folks as well as a number of the middle range ones have all said 'DA vs. Chaos' puts a lot of weight behind that.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Re-read my post. You are applying different standards to different people, based entirely on their history rather than the actual evidence they present in their rumours. One of these "respected" rumour mongers says it will be X, without any actual evidence to prove it and you accept that.
No, the standard is the same and it goes like this: "Has this person posted accurate information in the past? If yes, believe him."
An unknown says it will be Y and puts forth some attempt at evidence and you just disregard it due to the fact that it disagrees with the previous rumour and you haven't heard of the person before.
No evidence has been put forth. Claiming to have evidence is not evidence.
Both rumours should be considered equal until more evidence surfaces to disprove one or the other.
Absolutely ridiculous. Okay, here's a new rumour for you. The starter box will contain 3 and a half dead kittens. I have put forth exactly the same amount of evidence as the other guys and past history doesn't matter, so you should consider my rumour every bit as valid as the rest.
Just going to point out. If a were house got a PFD invoice for the starter set, wouldn't it just read:
"x Starter Sets on pallet y"?
Or at best a part list of what comes in a starter box?
-Packaging/Box.
-Starter set sprue 1
-Starter set sprue 2
-Dice baggy
-Whippy sticks
-mini Rule Book
ect, ect, ect.
Why would the invoice list what snap fit models are on the starer set sprue? Thows modles aren't even individual components that COULD be listed in a invoice at best. They are literately just 2 large plastic sprues after all.
This has nothing to do with who's telling the rumour. It's the fact that the story of how this friend got the info doesn't seem to follow any logical sense. =/
A Town Called Malus wrote: Re-read my post. You are applying different standards to different people, based entirely on their history rather than the actual evidence they present in their rumours. One of these "respected" rumour mongers says it will be X, without any actual evidence to prove it and you accept that.
No, the standard is the same and it goes like this: "Has this person posted accurate information in the past? If yes, believe him."
Whether someone was right in the past has no impact on whether they are right now. The two rumours are separate events which have no impact on the outcome of the other. It'd be like rolling a dice 6 times, the first 5 times you get 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 so you assume that the last one must be 6 when in reality each time you roll the dice the previous outcomes have no relation to what the outcome of this roll will be.
An unknown says it will be Y and puts forth some attempt at evidence and you just disregard it due to the fact that it disagrees with the previous rumour and you haven't heard of the person before.
No evidence has been put forth. Claiming to have evidence is not evidence.
They claimed to have a PDF listing the units. DarthSpader has seen this PDF. It would be nice if he could share it with the rest of us.
Both rumours should be considered equal until more evidence surfaces to disprove one or the other.
Absolutely ridiculous. Okay, here's a new rumour for you. The starter box will contain 3 and a half dead kittens. I have put forth exactly the same amount of evidence as the other guys and past history doesn't matter, so you should consider my rumour every bit as valid as the rest.
Your rumour is just as valid if it weren't for the fact that the transportation and sale of dead kittens is likely to be a biological hazard and therefore illegal. Unless they were stuffed in which case I don't think they'd fit in the box unless they were very tiny kittens.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Whether someone was right in the past has no impact on whether they are right now. The two rumours are separate events which have no impact on the outcome of the other. It'd be like rolling a dice 6 times, the first 5 times you get 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 so you assume that the last one must be 6 when in reality each time you roll the dice the previous outcomes have no relation to what the outcome of this roll will be.
People aren't dice and rumour accuracy isn't random unless the person is guessing.
When a rumour monger consistently posts accurate information it likely means that he has some way of getting real info and that future information is likely to be equally accurate. I'm going to put you on my Ignore list now since there's no point in trying to reason with you. Ta ta.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Whether someone was right in the past has no impact on whether they are right now. The two rumours are separate events which have no impact on the outcome of the other. It'd be like rolling a dice 6 times, the first 5 times you get 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 so you assume that the last one must be 6 when in reality each time you roll the dice the previous outcomes have no relation to what the outcome of this roll will be.
People aren't dice and rumour accuracy isn't random unless the person is guessing.
When a rumour monger consistently posts accurate information it likely means that he has some way of getting real info and that future information is likely to be equally accurate. I'm going to put you on my Ignore list now since there's no point in trying to reason with you. Ta ta.
You do not know that they are getting their information from the same sources every time, since they do not list their sources.
*Sigh* Try to get people to approach something from a purely objective and evidence based viewpoint and not instantly dismiss a new possibility because it is not what has been presented before and get put on the ignore list. Your whole argument is "He was right before so he's right this time", mine is "There's no overwhelming evidence for either side so both should be considered a possibility." That isn't an unreasonable standpoint.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
*Sigh* Try to get people to approach something from a purely objective and evidence based viewpoint and not instantly dismiss a new possibility because it is not what has been presented before and get put on the ignore list. Your whole argument is "He was right before so he's right this time", mine is "There's no overwhelming evidence for either side so both should be considered a possibility." That isn't an unreasonable standpoint.
Problem is your not approaching the subject from a "purely objective and evidence based viewpoint".
What we know:
-Claims Friend works in were house.
-Friend has a alleged PDF that lists what comes in the starter boxes.
Question: Why would a were house need a list of what models the box set can make? All they would need is "What's on the pallet and how much?" to do their job. Agien, even a part list wouldn't really say what's in the box.
The story does not add up. Their for the rumour is in doubt. That discrepancy alone should be red flags...
Also rumours aren't in a Vacuum. Track records are good indicators of how reliable someone's source is.
lord_blackfang wrote:
Absolutely ridiculous. Okay, here's a new rumour for you. The starter box will contain 3 and a half dead kittens. I have put forth exactly the same amount of evidence as the other guys and past history doesn't matter, so you should consider my rumour every bit as valid as the rest.
That's actually more reliable. A friend of mine who works in a warehouse took some pictures that won't load, and has a pdf that I can't show you. They say that there will be kittens in the starter box.
Malus, the chain presented for the Necron rumor is more tenuous than the Chaos one. I'm sure there are many reasons, but I will present 3 objective ones-
Many rumor spreaders have claimed it will be Chaos. One has claimed it will be Necron.
There is a pdf visible of a starter set- although it is in Chinese, the statline is consistent with the Chaos rumors. There is no visual evidence for the Necron rumor.
Well known individuals with a history of correct rumors say it will be Chaos. As far as I know, this is the first rumor this guy has leaked.
I will always trust someone who has shown accuracy in the past over someone with no track record.
I will always believe a rumor with scans over a conflicting rumor without scans.
If I hear it from 3 sources, I will always consider it more reliable than something that is conflicting that I heard from 1 source.
no im pretty sure the guy is either confused about what a "starter set" is, or otherwise inept. especially since his email was "check out new starter box - pics inc!"
the pics turned out to be useless garbage, and i told him as much. - i also posted again indicating such. i never claimed to have "inside info". just that i heard something diffirent then whats been said.
i also generally dont do the rumor thing. i dislike hearsay almost as much as i dislike politics... only reason i posted it, was it seemed like interesting news.
that said, i will also point out that while the necron rumor is probally my being trolled, there is nothing other then "guessing and wishlisting" for chaos. and the fact a guy whgo dosent play the game is telling me game specfic stuff (even though his idea of "pics" is lacking) a single foreign document could have been shopped, or made by anyone, and there have been "credible" rumor leakers in the past who have admitted to making stuff up or just guessing.
- my advise: wait untill sept-oct when the starter box is / should be released before assuming or betting on anything. GW may mix things up entirley and give us a IG/DA alliance vrs a cron/chaos alliance. or it could be tau vrs sisters... who the heck knows?
The only issue I have with Chaos vs. DA is that both Codice's are two editions behind, but I will wait till the next codex comes out next month to believe or disbelieve the rumor
hey i dont want to get bashed like the other guy that last posted "what he saw" but i can sort of "re confirm" that the starter set will be dark angles and chaos.
i studied chinese in high school and i lived there for a while too when i finished school and some of the words on the image posted prevously says t hings that translate to demons and worship and suffering pain blah blah all sounds like chaos to me.
both teams have marine in some of their unit title entry to so its either space marines vs space marines or choas space marine vs chaos space marines
Gitzbitah wrote:There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
Has there ALWAYS been a mini rule book in the starter?
I am really hoping there will be in this one, but don't have the experience to know.
That started in 4th edition I think.
Yeah, 4th and 5th edition 40k had them, as did 7th and 8th edition Fantasy. Can't speak on previous Fantasy sets, but 3rd ed 40k and 2nd ed 40k had full size rulebooks in them as opposed to mini ones. I don't see why this one would be different at all; you can't play the game without rules.
Gitzbitah wrote:There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
there is only one chinese written language.
Technically, there are two; Chinese Traditional (Taiwan and Hong Kong) and Chinese Simplified (mainland China).
Gitzbitah wrote:There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
there is only one chinese written language.
Except for the one they use in Hong Kong. Good luck reading a newspaper there if you only speak Mandarin - even if you know traditional characters.
And Classical Chinese, which is technically another language altogether.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote:Technically, there are two; Chinese Traditional (Taiwan and Hong Kong) and Chinese Simplified (mainland China).
Yeah, in 2nd and 3rd edition we got full sized rule books in box set.
Personally, I like the 2 edition approach. The mini rule book is easier to carry around and faster to search through. The Full sized edition has all the fluff and extra stuff.
I made it through 4th and 5th edition on the mini rule books alone. The 6th edition is too sexy to pass up in hardcover.
Gitzbitah wrote:There were pictures of the unit list in Chinese early in this thread. Although I must admit that they could have been anything- I'm not fluent in any of the Chinese languages.
there is only one chinese written language.
Except for the one they use in Hong Kong. Good luck reading a newspaper there if you only speak Mandarin - even if you know traditional characters.
And Classical Chinese, which is technically another language altogether.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote:Technically, there are two; Chinese Traditional (Taiwan and Hong Kong) and Chinese Simplified (mainland China).
Technically those are scripts, not languages.
haha what... cantonese and mandarin are only different scripts? not langauges? :S you live in taiwan and you think they are the same langauge?
spaceXjam wrote: haha what... cantonese and mandarin are only different scripts? not langauges? :S you live in taiwan and you think they are the same langauge?
I have the feeling you're not fluent in Chinese (I am). Also, you completely misunderstood what I wrote - I don't believe I said that Cantonese and Mandarin were scripts. In the interests of general knowledge for the readers of this thread (and also to clear up this particular poster's misconceptions), I'd like to post this somewhat off-topic message. I hope that the readers of Dakka will cut me a little slack since it was me who translated those unit composition PDFs over on Warseer.
Traditional characters and simplified characters are just different scripts. If you can read and write one of them, you can pretty much read the other - with a little practice you can read the other very quickly (writing it is a different matter). Taiwan uses traditional characters, while mainland China uses simplified characters. In both countries however, with some lexical differences, the standard written language is Standard Mandarin. The lexical situation is similar to how the UK and US both use English but with some differences like boot/trunk, pavement/sidewalk etc.
Cantonese in Hong Kong is written using traditional characters. It includes many characters that do not exist in standard written Mandarin, some of which are pulled from the corpus of Classical Chinese characters, while others are more recent inventions prior to the computer age. Newspapers in Hong Kong that are written in Cantonese are not easily understandable to speakers of Mandarin without additional instruction.
GW's current translations of Warhammer are written in simplified characters. The books are easily understandable to Taiwan's Mandarin-speaking population. The pdf sheets that I translated earlier were written in simplified characters and came from China. I can read (but not generally write - or write well) in simplified characters.
I cannot read a Hong Kong newspaper, nor can I easily understand the subtitles of Hong Kong-subtitled movies. This is despite the fact that they use the same script (traditional characters) as Mandarin uses in Taiwan.
I hope that clears the issue up, and I apologize to all for the off-topic posting. I hope that nonetheless it was interesting and educational, and should anyone wish to continue the topic with me, please let's take it to PM.
Wardragoon wrote:The only issue I have with Chaos vs. DA is that both Codice's are two editions behind, but I will wait till the next codex comes out next month to believe or disbelieve the rumor
Considering that Chaos has new units in the box and Dark Angels apparently have different stats than in their current codex I am venturing that both will be getting an update really quickly. So this shouldn't be an issue for long.
angryboy2k wrote:Snip
Thanks for that, the only additional languages I ever learned were programming languages and Chinese is always one of those language groups that remained mysterious to me. That clears up a lot.
angryboy2k wrote:
I have the feeling you're not fluent in Chinese (I am). Also, you completely misunderstood what I wrote - I don't believe I said that Cantonese and Mandarin were scripts. In the interests of general knowledge for the readers of this thread (and also to clear up this particular poster's misconceptions), I'd like to post this somewhat off-topic message. I hope that the readers of Dakka will cut me a little slack since it was me who translated those unit composition PDFs over on Warseer.
Spoiler:
Traditional characters and simplified characters are just different scripts. If you can read and write one of them, you can pretty much read the other - with a little practice you can read the other very quickly (writing it is a different matter). Taiwan uses traditional characters, while mainland China uses simplified characters. In both countries however, with some lexical differences, the standard written language is Standard Mandarin. The lexical situation is similar to how the UK and US both use English but with some differences like boot/trunk, pavement/sidewalk etc.
Cantonese in Hong Kong is written using traditional characters. It includes many characters that do not exist in standard written Mandarin, some of which are pulled from the corpus of Classical Chinese characters, while others are more recent inventions prior to the computer age. Newspapers in Hong Kong that are written in Cantonese are not easily understandable to speakers of Mandarin without additional instruction.
GW's current translations of Warhammer are written in simplified characters. The books are easily understandable to Taiwan's Mandarin-speaking population. The pdf sheets that I translated earlier were written in simplified characters and came from China. I can read (but not generally write - or write well) in simplified characters.
I cannot read a Hong Kong newspaper, nor can I easily understand the subtitles of Hong Kong-subtitled movies. This is despite the fact that they use the same script (traditional characters) as Mandarin uses in Taiwan.
I hope that clears the issue up, and I apologize to all for the off-topic posting. I hope that nonetheless it was interesting and educational, and should anyone wish to continue the topic with me, please let's take it to PM.
I don't know about anyone else, but I find that kind of information about languages really interesting. Thanks also for taking the time to translate the sheet from Mandarin to English. Much Appreciated!
spaceXjam wrote:
haha what... cantonese and mandarin are only different scripts? not langauges? :S you live in taiwan and you think they are the same langauge?
I have the feeling you're not fluent in Chinese (I am). Also, you completely misunderstood what I wrote - I don't believe I said that Cantonese and Mandarin were scripts. In the interests of general knowledge for the readers of this thread (and also to clear up this particular poster's misconceptions), I'd like to post this somewhat off-topic message. I hope that the readers of Dakka will cut me a little slack since it was me who translated those unit composition PDFs over on Warseer.
Traditional characters and simplified characters are just different scripts. If you can read and write one of them, you can pretty much read the other - with a little practice you can read the other very quickly (writing it is a different matter). Taiwan uses traditional characters, while mainland China uses simplified characters. In both countries however, with some lexical differences, the standard written language is Standard Mandarin. The lexical situation is similar to how the UK and US both use English but with some differences like boot/trunk, pavement/sidewalk etc.
Cantonese in Hong Kong is written using traditional characters. It includes many characters that do not exist in standard written Mandarin, some of which are pulled from the corpus of Classical Chinese characters, while others are more recent inventions prior to the computer age. Newspapers in Hong Kong that are written in Cantonese are not easily understandable to speakers of Mandarin without additional instruction.
GW's current translations of Warhammer are written in simplified characters. The books are easily understandable to Taiwan's Mandarin-speaking population. The pdf sheets that I translated earlier were written in simplified characters and came from China. I can read (but not generally write - or write well) in simplified characters.
I cannot read a Hong Kong newspaper, nor can I easily understand the subtitles of Hong Kong-subtitled movies. This is despite the fact that they use the same script (traditional characters) as Mandarin uses in Taiwan.
I hope that clears the issue up, and I apologize to all for the off-topic posting. I hope that nonetheless it was interesting and educational, and should anyone wish to continue the topic with me, please let's take it to PM.
haha wow that is very intresting. not how i thought it worked.
i lived in china for 8 months or so and i picked up a bit of langauge but never any reading/writing skills only the speech side to it haha
Since the DA vrs Chaos starter segues well with all the rumors for chaos getting a new dex next month. And the cover of the new rule book has DA, i would give NO creedence to any of the little necron rumor that are drifting around.
Whenever someone passes hearsay that turns out to be false, i just use the ignore button. It limits the delivery of false content.
I think the Necron rumor was just someone's wishful thinking at best or a desperate cry for attention at worst.
Good guys in power armor verses evil dudes in power armor seems like the perfect dumbed down idea for a starter set.
The rumored contents cover powered armored troops, cannon fodder troops, heavily armored troops, bikes, dreadnaughts, Elites, HQ's and maybe even Psychers. That would give new players a little bit of everything to dabble with.
The only thing it needs to be perfect is for the Dark Angels Iconography to be easy to remove.
). Unless 
+Eye (of Horus?) if you're lucky.
, I was alwayss told the Orks were the last codex in 4e XD, so I guess nevermind then