62226
Post by: Glocknall
MVBrandt wrote: AS an aside to an earlier question, the new weapon batteries ARE legal. Clarification - their emplaced weapons ARE targetable, at the usual stat line (T7/yadayada).
Well maybe I can still return mine. Veng batteries are pretty much useless then. T7 isnt what it used to be. Can you target the Heavy Bolters on a bastion? So page 96 has the "emplaced weapons" rule. The Veng batteries closely follow those rules. They are much more akin to a emplaced weapon than a "gun emplacement" ala Quad Gun or Icarus Lascannon. I don't know how you guys came up thinking it had a separate profile than the building its mounted on. Granted the whole "emplacement" thing is murky, but you're taking a leap unsupported by the model's actual rules.
8311
Post by: Target
Glocknall wrote:MVBrandt wrote:
AS an aside to an earlier question, the new weapon batteries ARE legal. Clarification - their emplaced weapons ARE targetable, at the usual stat line (T7/yadayada).
Well maybe I can still return mine. Veng batteries are pretty much useless then. T7 isnt what it used to be. Can you target the Heavy Bolters on a bastion?
So page 96 has the "emplaced weapons" rule. The Veng batteries closely follow those rules. They are much more akin to a emplaced weapon than a "gun emplacement" ala Quad Gun or Icarus Lascannon. I don't know how you guys came up thinking it had a separate profile than the building its mounted on. Granted the whole "emplacement" thing is murky, but you're taking a leap unsupported by the model's actual rules.
I agree they're useless now, who would pay 75 points for an AV14, LOS blocking, 3+ cover providing structure I get to place in my deployment zone with an emplaced punisher or battle cannon (+10) that I can take two of instead of the usual one. It would be way more fair if the gun was completely untargetable and allowed to blast away all game without any return fire. 
For 75 points, what you get is still a steal, so I wouldn't run back to your local GW quite yet. The fact of the matter is they state "one emplaced punisher gatling cannon" - which is easily interpreted EITHER way, as a gun emplacement or an emplaced weapon. For my money, the model itself resembles the Quad Gun/Icarus lascannon found on top of the bastion far more than it resembles one of the heavy bolters in the window, in form and function. I see both sides, but I think the way NOVA is ruling is more sensible, but there's always the other option of ruling "it needs a faq" and not allowing these news fortifications to save everyone an argument/headache on it.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
What target said, plus similar language and GW FAQ'ing about Icarus/Quadguns on Bastion, plus this from their own description:
"Keystones of any Imperial fortification, these defensive gun emplacements are capable of annihilating both tanks and infantry alike."
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
Rawr! Angry Rawr!
But back on topic can't wait. Still need to figure out what I'm playing with. I await the FAQ with glee as that might help my decision!
8311
Post by: Target
 Hulksmash wrote:Rawr! Angry Rawr!
But back on topic can't wait. Still need to figure out what I'm playing with. I await the FAQ with glee as that might help my decision!
Just set yourself at ease Brad, I'll beat you in the GT, you'll beat me in the Invitational, and we can hug it out realizing we've successfully griefed each other into nothing again. See? It doesn't even matter what you bring, it's just fate!
62226
Post by: Glocknall
MVBrandt wrote:What target said, plus similar language and GW FAQ'ing about Icarus/Quadguns on Bastion, plus this from their own description: "Keystones of any Imperial fortification, these defensive gun emplacements are capable of annihilating both tanks and infantry alike."
So like Gun Emplacements (Quad Guns, Icarus) you can fire it manually? If you read the System Defense rule it only mentions the building and never the gun itself. It even provides for being able to assault an unoccupied building. I see where your coming from but in this case I think its the wrong conclusion. The entire rules are murkey considering emplacement but if you look at the list entries for the Aegis and Bastion it actually refers to the Quad and Icarus as "gun emplacements". It does not do so for the Vengeance.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Well that would be the third year in a row  I'm just so torn. Do I paint up around another 70 models in the next few weeks (with me working or being out of state a fair amount) or do I just go with what I've been running so hard all year. Or do I go with something I don't have to paint a ton for but haven't played but maybe once..... Decisions make my head hurt.
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Post by: pretre
Glocknall wrote:So like Gun Emplacements (Quad Guns, Icarus) you can fire it manually?
Yeah, that would be crazy good and the opposite side of the coin for this ruling. If you are treating them as gun emplacements on top of a AV14 impassable building, I'll just take two punishers and a squad of retributors. 52 Rending S5 shots? Yes, thank you!
62226
Post by: Glocknall
Target wrote:
I agree they're useless now, who would pay 75 points for an AV14, LOS blocking, 3+ cover providing structure I get to place in my deployment zone with an emplaced punisher or battle cannon (+10) that I can take two of instead of the usual one. It would be way more fair if the gun was completely untargetable and allowed to blast away all game without any return fire.
For 75 points, what you get is still a steal, so I wouldn't run back to your local GW quite yet. The fact of the matter is they state "one emplaced punisher gatling cannon" - which is easily interpreted EITHER way, as a gun emplacement or an emplaced weapon. For my money, the model itself resembles the Quad Gun/Icarus lascannon found on top of the bastion far more than it resembles one of the heavy bolters in the window, in form and function. I see both sides, but I think the way NOVA is ruling is more sensible, but there's always the other option of ruling "it needs a faq" and not allowing these news fortifications to save everyone an argument/headache on it.
By making the gun and "emplacement" You make it vulnerable to S7, S8, Poison, Sniper and other assorted weapons that are taken in abundance. The gun also does not benefit from the cover save that is provided by an Aegis or Bastion. Automatically Appended Next Post:  pretre wrote:Glocknall wrote:So like Gun Emplacements (Quad Guns, Icarus) you can fire it manually?
Yeah, that would be crazy good and the opposite side of the coin for this ruling. If you are treating them as gun emplacements on top of a AV14 impassable building, I'll just take two punishers and a squad of retributors. 52 Rending S5 shots? Yes, thank you!
Heh Im thinking a BS 5 Nurgle DP or Fateweaver. LOLZ
20774
Post by: pretre
Glocknall wrote: pretre wrote:Glocknall wrote:So like Gun Emplacements (Quad Guns, Icarus) you can fire it manually?
Yeah, that would be crazy good and the opposite side of the coin for this ruling. If you are treating them as gun emplacements on top of a AV14 impassable building, I'll just take two punishers and a squad of retributors. 52 Rending S5 shots? Yes, thank you!
Heh Im thinking a BS 5 Nurgle DP or Fateweaver. LOLZ
Problem with that is he can only fire one. Retributors are dirt cheap for 10 of them and they can fire the whole shebang. And have a great chance of getting rending. That's a lot of pain.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Sorta irrelevant, since there's a unique rule that states it cannot be fired manually.
20774
Post by: pretre
MVBrandt wrote:Sorta irrelevant, since there's a unique rule that states it cannot be fired manually.
You're thinking of the Firestorm redoubt. The VWB has no such rule. So you would be giving players the ability to manual fire the punishers or battle cannons. Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, the rules for VWB say 'One Emplaced Punisher Gatling Cannon' compare that to the bastion: 'Four Emplaced Heavy Bolters' 'Gun Emplacement with Icarus Lascannon' So, just like a bastion, if you want to take out the guns on a Vengeance, you need to roll on the building table and hope for a result that returns a destroyed weapon. (4, 6 and 7.)
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Post by: Glocknall
Yeah and the Veng dose not have the targeting restrictions that the FR has. This is partially why I think in this case the ruling is incorrect.
20774
Post by: pretre
Glocknall wrote:Yeah and the Veng dose not have the targeting restrictions that the FR has. This is partially why I think in this case the ruling is incorrect.
Yeah, it's only targeting restrictions are if it auto-fires, in which case the rulebook kicks in and closest, etc.
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Post by: Target
And in order to fire it manually, you have to be able to get into BTB with the gun, the building has no access and is impassable...so...gl with that.
20774
Post by: pretre
Target wrote:And in order to fire it manually, you have to be able to get into BTB with the gun, the building has no access and is impassable...so... gl with that.
Yeah, good point!
Either way, the wording makes it pretty clear it is an emplaced weapon and not a gun emplacement. There's the link.
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Post by: Target
Thank ya, yea I mean I know the rules for it, I just don't think it's clear one way or another. I think it's a bit army wavy to declare you need to return your purchase because a model is played differently then you expected, but maybe that's just me.
20774
Post by: pretre
Target wrote:
Thank ya, yea I mean I know the rules for it, I just don't think it's clear one way or another. I think it's a bit army wavy to declare you need to return your purchase because a model is played differently then you expected, but maybe that's just me.
My only concern is the precedent effect of Nova rulings. I think (at least to me) the wording is clear that they are emplaced (using the exact same wording as Bastion/Fortress Heavy Bolters), but we'll see what happens.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
It's important to note that in the Rulebook, the Bastion's Icarus/Quadgun is referred to as an emplaced weapon in at least one location as well. The wishy washy way of these things being ruled requires FAQs, is generally the point here.
As Target points out, another alternative to either of the rulings, is to rule these things completely illegal, since you can't really check up on the rules or prepare for them unless you pirate or purchase a $50 model you may or may not want (different from going to the local GW to look up a codex, or purchasing a $30 ebook supplement). Most who wish to use them have responded very negatively to that option, however.
62226
Post by: Glocknall
Target wrote:
Thank ya, yea I mean I know the rules for it, I just don't think it's clear one way or another. I think it's a bit army wavy to declare you need to return your purchase because a model is played differently then you expected, but maybe that's just me.
I was a little dramatic there, it just shocked me a little because after reading the rules and playing a few games with it making it Quad or Icarus never occurred to my opponents or me. The rules are terribly vague but the Occam's Razor on this is to make it a emplaced weapon for the reasons listed above.
I do plan on taking them to NOVA so I obviously have a bias here. Either way it won't dampen my enthusiasm or enjoyment of NoVA in the slightest.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I would have though emplaced and so only the actual structure could be targetted. It's not like the gun doesn't blow up on like a 3+ if you pen the building (which you can target).
Either way is cool since I wasn't bringing one anyway
14126
Post by: morgendonner
I saw the new primers are up.
Are there any noticeable changes? I haven't found any yet.
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Hulksmash wrote:I would have though emplaced and so only the actual structure could be targetted. It's not like the gun doesn't blow up on like a 3+ if you pen the building (which you can target).
Either way is cool since I wasn't bringing one anyway
I am of the field that its an AV14 building that I need to pen to destroy the gun. At least for the VWB's. It is completely to my disadvantage to have it work that way because I am not even running them but it seems pretty clear that the intent was such. Vehicles have armor values that need pens to destroy their weapons. Here word for word mind you, "The Vengeance Weapons Battery contains two standalone emplacements whose turrets can be equipped with either battle cannons or punisher cannons." Personally I' de rather seem them banned over being house ruled and played incorrectly. Not directed at anyone or the event just my two cents.
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Post by: pretre
Why would they be banned? Lack of availability of rules?
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Post by: Lansirill
Had a quick counts-as question for the narrative. Would some double-ML dreadnoughts be reasonable alternative models for tau crisis and broadside suits? I'm trying to figure out a way to add a Tau detachment without having to mix Tau models in with my Dark Angels... just don't think it would look right. (Of course, I can see a pretty darn reasonable argument for it being confusing so I'm not quite at the 'BUY ALL THE THINGS' stage just yet.)
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Post by: Grimwulfe
 Lansirill wrote:Had a quick counts-as question for the narrative. Would some double- ML dreadnoughts be reasonable alternative models for tau crisis and broadside suits? I'm trying to figure out a way to add a Tau detachment without having to mix Tau models in with my Dark Angels... just don't think it would look right. (Of course, I can see a pretty darn reasonable argument for it being confusing so I'm not quite at the 'BUY ALL THE THINGS' stage just yet.)
My opinion Allies who are a different codex should never be count as with models from the main codex. Makes thinbgs way to muddled and confusing.
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Post by: MVBrandt
Creatively modeling and converting so your allies look like a cohesive part of the overall force can be awesome. That said, @ the full blown con level, we also have to discourage simple proxy modeling.
So if you want to convert them up, give them character, and make it readily apparent they aren't simply stand-in proxies, awesome. If you just want to put previously completed dreads down counting as suits, can't say yes due to precedent / Yada Yada. (Which is always hard for me to say!)
I do appreciate the desire to not just plunk some tau down next to angels. Werner Born's striking necron/tau are a good example of a way around this, with the tau all converted tomb kings and such ... clearly distinct from the cron models for gameplay identification, but seamlessly blended into the army aesthetic.
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Post by: Tomb King
Kind of a big ruling. Scatter lasers do not twin link serpent shield shots?
"The Serpent Shield does benefit from twin-linking due to Laser Lock"
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
The Serpent shield does benefit ... that's what it rules. Scatter lasers DO twin-linked the serpent shield.
Also - Gornall and others, I believe the head judge is amending the ruling so that the Vengeance Weapons Battery's weapons are Emplaced, and not Gun Emplacements.
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Post by: Tomb King
MVBrandt wrote:The Serpent shield does benefit ... that's what it rules. Scatter lasers DO twin-linked the serpent shield.
Stand by....  ! Been a hectic week. Leaving for 10 days of fun tomorrow so been running around planning and checking my gear. Ill sit in the corner until nova now. 
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Post by: Glocknall
Sorry bout the butthurt earlier and thanks for taking the time to get it right.
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Post by: magodedisco
A couple extra questions that I'm sure will come up for my games:
1. Can Grand Master Mordrak use Grand Strategy on himself if he is accompanied with zero Ghost Knights? -"Grand Master Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights" is explicitly disallowed. However, there is no unit of Ghost Knights to speak of in this case.
2. What EXACTLY happens when Dark Excommunication is cast upon a unit that includes a unit benefited by the Grimoire of True Names? (with and without the bearer of that item in the targeted unit)
Any help would be appreciated!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
1. Far as the RAW seems to me, you can use Grand Strategy on Mordrak, as he is not an Independent Character, and doesn't fit any of the other restrictions; he of course cannot join units.
2. Dark Excommunication only causes Daemonic Gifts possessed by models to cease to work. The Gimoire neither need be on the table to function, nor its bearer even alive, nor does it work on its bearer.
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Post by: magodedisco
Thanks for the response, man! I'm getting pretty pumped about this event.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
So are we, thanks for the question!
Registrations have taken that sudden urgent final spike, and the hotel rooms are running out.
We have spots left in most events, but not many in most!
Blog post due on BOLS, I think Larry's going to kill me.
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
@MVBrandt.
Good luck with your tournament as I hope you have great success this year.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Thanks ALW!
40k GT is now running out of tickets.
Fantasy has 3 spots left.
We're way past a banner year at this point; everyone's pretty excited.
For those wondering still what to do w/ their evenings ... sneak peak at a tiny part of the DC Narrative in the Missions ...
http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/Narrative-Final-Missions.pdf
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Post by: extrenm(54)
I am looking forward to the NOVA open, but I have one question. Is it possible to play with an unpainted army?
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
It is strongly, strongly recommended that you at least meet the basic minimums by applying primer and some basic drybrush/etc. You'll be playing with some of the best looking armies around, and 3 color minimum is technically required.
Doesn't mean we'll kick you to the curb, but please do get the minimums in.
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Post by: extrenm(54)
Just checking. Thank you for your response.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Sure! It's always hard to answer, b/c I don't want to sound discouraging if that leaves you with a bit of painting required.
We're getting fever pitch excited about NOVA over here  Automatically Appended Next Post: ALL 40k players, and Invitational players.
A pair of distinct newsletters will be going out shortly to just you guys. Make sure you are not on spam lists / etc., make sure to check your Gmail Promotions tabs.
These newsletters will be mail merged to give each attendee their personal User ID to "take over" their Torrent of Fire account, and enable player lifetime record keeping, Mobile Self Scoring, live score updates, etc.
For the viewing / non-attending audience at large, you'll be able to follow along with live results and all table pairings as they occur via
app.torrentoffire.com
Once they're public, just click the Invitational or GT to get live status on any and all players and how they're doing, the army of who they're playing, etc. etc.
Players - even if you aren't someone with a tablet or smart phone, you'll want to snag your Torrent of Fire account and register w/ them. List your CLUBS also, and make sure your friends in the same clubs list theirs. The software will automatically avoid pairing club mates and state-mates for the first couple rounds, and that's true at ANY EVENT IN THE FUTURE that uses Torrent of Fire ... I already know at least 11th Co GT, BFS, FoB, the Redstone Rumble, and others are in talks w/ them. They tweak their scoring software to suit the tournament / format.
If you list your club and register correctly, any time you attend a tournament - whether an RTT or GT or whatever - that uses Torrent of Fire, they'll automatically know who you are and who not to pair you with, etc., plus it'll have your personal stats records and other things on file.
So, watch for the e-mails, follow the instructions, get yourself registered, and make your NOVA experience even more radical.
SIDE NOTE - In case it isn't clear, we still manually score just like any other event - if you don't own a smart phone / tablet, you're not going to be negatively impacted * AT ALL*
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Additional update to the above about Torrent,
40k GT is down to only about 20 spots ... been a flurry of activity lately. Numerous other events are nearly gone.
We've had a MUCH larger jump in hotel room night reservations and in general registrations than the previous two years, despite the previous two having substantial increases from their prior. Not entirely sure how crazy this year's gonna be, but it's gonna rock!
37020
Post by: DarkCorsair
Just curious, how do the Magic registration numbers look so far?
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Greetings Ladies and Gents! I will be coming into town next saturday. Is there a hobby store nearby to purchase painting supplies and to possibly get a game in? What day will the convention gaming area actually be set up and open? Also will you all need help?
25839
Post by: Kolath
 Tomb King wrote:Greetings Ladies and Gents! I will be coming into town next saturday. Is there a hobby store nearby to purchase painting supplies and to possibly get a game in? What day will the convention gaming area actually be set up and open? Also will you all need help?
There are a bunch of hobby stores nearby if you have access to a car/taxi/bus:
GW in Springfield
Eagle and Empire in Alexandria
Victory Comics and Compleat Strategist in Falls Church
Hobby Works in Fairfax
Registration and check-in opens at 1:30pm Thursday August 29th. Gaming tables will open for business soon after (MVB, do you know the exact time?)
We will never turn down help with load-in! If you or anyone else is in town and interested in helping set up the convention, we will be at the Hyatt pretty much all day on Wednesday August 28th. Please shoot an email over to novastaffwrangler@gmail.com and we will let you know specifics.
See y'all soon!
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Torrent of Fire will not allow me to join the open and the invitational?? Disregard it entered me in both!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kolath wrote: Tomb King wrote:Greetings Ladies and Gents! I will be coming into town next saturday. Is there a hobby store nearby to purchase painting supplies and to possibly get a game in? What day will the convention gaming area actually be set up and open? Also will you all need help?
There are a bunch of hobby stores nearby if you have access to a car/taxi/bus:
GW in Springfield
Eagle and Empire in Alexandria
Victory Comics and Compleat Strategist in Falls Church
Hobby Works in Fairfax
Registration and check-in opens at 1:30pm Thursday August 29th. Gaming tables will open for business soon after (MVB, do you know the exact time?)
We will never turn down help with load-in! If you or anyone else is in town and interested in helping set up the convention, we will be at the Hyatt pretty much all day on Wednesday August 28th. Please shoot an email over to novastaffwrangler@gmail.com and we will let you know specifics.
See y'all soon!
Thanks and WillCo!
52309
Post by: Breng77
Just a note unless it moved location the Gw in Springfield closed a year or so ago. My wife's family lives around the corner from the old location and when we went to stop by last year it was no longer there.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
It is now in a bit smaller shop right around the corner, almost literally. Walking distance from the old storefront.
15824
Post by: DX3
NOVA Open time is always a great time of year!
I'm bummed that I won't be able to attend this year (especially since Eldar finally received a new codex)!
Looking forward to all the updates and stories to come! Good Luck to everyone!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Hey all,
We've got some radical dice for the NOVA this year; they can be purchased for a few bucks at the NOVA Open Store during the Con.
These suckers double as Scatter Dice (all cred and perms to/from AdeptiCon for the idea! Thanks Hank!), and are gorgeous to boot!
Pick some up when you're there - supplies are limited (only 75 sets available).
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Post by: ComTrav
Couldn't find this on the website--will most vendors be set up to take credit/debit, or will it mostly be cash only?
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
My experience to date is most are set up to take credit/debit. It would still probably behoove you to bring cash along with you as you're able.
The NOVA store itself is fully prepped for credit, if you care to sign up for any seminars, paint competitions, or purchase NOVA swag on site.
25839
Post by: Kolath
In past years the ATM has run out by the end of the con (much like at other major events) so you should hit it up sooner rather than later or bring cash. That said, last year I'm pretty sure warstore and most of the vendors took credit card on-site.
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Post by: Tomb King
Some events have a time for bartering and/or auctions etc... will there be any of that at the nova?
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Not this year;' we've been hearing requests for it a lot, so possibly next.
That said, you can barter with whoever whenever you want.
Also, all vendors are offering additional discounts on Thursday night.
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Post by: chrisamichaels
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the Open! Just an FYI, but PoweredPlay Gaming will be giving 15% discount on all products on Thursday night (not to be combined with the VIG discount). We'll also be demoing lighting techniques for your mini's throughout the weekend and in our Seminar on Sunday (with giveaways).
Get your tickets or swing by the booth!
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Post by: Mannahnin
Has the FAQ been finalized yet? I'm just finding this:
http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-NOVA-Open-Short-Return-Draft-FAQ.pdf
Is there also going to be (or included in the FAQ) a listing of legal units/rules from outside the regular codices? Such as the new fortifications, and maybe the locations where their rules can be referenced?
963
Post by: Mannahnin
Cool!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Ragnar,
Updated FAQ doc: http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/40k-FAQ-v2.pdf
Farsight, Iyanden, vengeance weapons, firestorm, sky shield, aegis, bastion all legal Yada Yada. Opponents are required explicitly to have copies of all rules relevant to their armies. If they do not, or the veracity of their copies are in question, contact a judge.
33968
Post by: Tomb King
MVBrandt wrote:Ragnar,
Updated FAQ doc: http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/40k-FAQ-v2.pdf
Farsight, Iyanden, vengeance weapons, firestorm, sky shield, aegis, bastion all legal Yada Yada. Opponents are required explicitly to have copies of all rules relevant to their armies. If they do not, or the veracity of their copies are in question, contact a judge.
Not seeing anywhere stating that my two baneblades are not allowed for the nova invitational. Gonna have some fun. 
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
PERMISSIVE FAQ PERMISSIVE FAQ noooooo
76921
Post by: Torrent of Ire
Mike--not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes.
Does the extra Victory Point for killing an Ethereal reward the player with an additional Mission Point or 50 Victory Points towards the tie breaker (or something else)? I don't see anything about it in the FAQ and there seems to be precedent for going in either direction.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
 Torrent of Ire wrote:Mike--not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes.
Does the extra Victory Point for killing an Ethereal reward the player with an additional Mission Point or 50 Victory Points towards the tie breaker (or something else)? I don't see anything about it in the FAQ and there seems to be precedent for going in either direction.
Should be treated exactly as the Warlord Traits that award additional points. Bonus 50 toward Tiebreaker. Good question ... we've got a few crib notes for the Mic on one or two rounds; we'll add that to the kick-off.
The only real big one we've had / heard is on Round 1- Purge the Alien; for determining BP allocations, you determine how much you win the MISSION by, not how many points you're ahead by total. So, since you have to be ahead by 3 to avoid going to tiebreaker, being ahead by 3 constitutes winning Round 1 by 1 MIssion Point. Could have been more clear there; most of the rest of the missions should be pretty easy to translate.
Again, good Q on the Ethereals.
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Post by: yeezymozart
Hey is there anywhere that I could see the list of all people in the invitational?
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Very, very tough crowd this year ...
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2013/08/final-nova-invitational-2013-roster.html?m=0
Daniel Bunker
Tony Kopach
Alexander Fennell
Nick Nanavati
Jens Gertsen
Ragnar Arnesson
Matt DeFranza
Alex Bessinger
Ben Mohlie
Andrew Gonyo
James Watkins
Jesse Newton
Allan Hernandez
Alan Bajramovic
Brad Nichols
Brett Perkins
Brad Townsend
Eric Hoerger
Jeremy Veysseire
Bob Roda
Vaden Ball
Robert Fortin
Aaron Aleong
Alex Harrison
Werner Born
Neil Gilstrap
Robert Tilly
Matt Schuchman
Adam Tricola
Nick Rose
Kurt Clauss
Mark Aksel
47327
Post by: whigwam
That is a very frightening list of names to be on. I think you only forgot to list Batman, Dracula, and God Himself.
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Post by: Blackmoor
There is a local RTT this weekend that I was going to skip to finish painting. Now after seeing those names I have to go to get more practice with my list.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
My ironically favorite thing about the Invitational is ... with a list of names like that, at its nastiest yet in terms of difficulty ... all but one of those people are guaranteed to lose at least one game.
One of them is guaranteed to lose EVERY game.
(of 5, for the Invitational ... I suspect ALL will win at least a few in the GT)
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Post by: Darkwynn
I have a feeling I am going to be playing Ben at least once this week.
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Pretty stoked about the invitational. Just got released for the day so will be signing out and flying out in the morning for Arlington. Anyone else gonna be there this early? Bringing the old lady so sight seeing is forced for the first few days. However, I would like to get some practice in some time. Haven't played since.... yea.
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
Edit:heehaw first time nova attendance is starting to look really good! Hopefully it all works out as now I'm super looking forward to it.
62226
Post by: Glocknall
PM sent.
1406
Post by: Janthkin
Anyone want to wager on the over/under for Eldar/Tau combinations in the main event? I'm setting it at 30%.
44083
Post by: quiestdeus
Percentage of all combinations (Eldar, Tau, Eldar/Tau, and Tau/Eldar)? Way over 30%
Just Eldar primary with Tau allies? I'd take the under.
23077
Post by: Widowsbane
Janthkin,
Kevin Schack here...Final table of Poker game at Adepticon this year(4th place)...The other Kevin sitting at the table...anyways...if that is Tau/Eldar and Eldar/Tau...I will take the under...u decide the wager...I am staking claim to 24% of the field...I think GK make a comeback this year and expect loads of GK/Crons and Crons/GK...and lotsa peeps will just bring all their wave serpents that they have been sitting on since, well, the advent of the Serpent Shield without the Tau...Although I do expect a lot of cherry picking of the Tau Commander for the Reaper combo...
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
You'll know on app.torrentoffire.com as soon as we finish check-in; in fact, everyone "out here" will be able to see what armies are present, who is playing what, and how each is doing statistically (in all categories, including objectives capped, points destroyed, etc.) against both the field, and against other army combos, to your heart's content.
All live, too.
33968
Post by: Tomb King
I am officially checked in and at the hyatt currently. I might need to pick up sone glue and such because bringing my armies in a regular bag might have taken a toll.
My two armies are:
Ig/sw
Eldar/tau
Haven't decided which will be in open and which the invitational. Most likely ig/sw in open though.
23077
Post by: Widowsbane
Tomb,
Welcome to your first NOVA open......enjoy DC for a couple of days the rest of us will be arriving shortly......I will be rolling in with a homie early Thursday morning...see ya around the hotel or at the mixer...good luck to ya...
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
Next weekend can't come soon enough. I'm 100% going to be in attendance barring catastrophic car failure or life failure ;p. I'd take the over on 30% eldar/tau. I'm bringing the old hat OP necrons/GK haha so I am not complaining ;p.
Can't wait to meet everyone and I'll apologize ahead of time. If I meet you Friday and seem down its because I drove 8-10 hours and got 3 hours sleep!
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Widowsbane wrote:Tomb,
Welcome to your first NOVA open......enjoy DC for a couple of days the rest of us will be arriving shortly......I will be rolling in with a homie early Thursday morning...see ya around the hotel or at the mixer...good luck to ya...
Thanks! I look forward to it. I also got the wife with me this time. So if you see me getting yelled at by a woman and I have a depressed look on my face, come and run interference.
1943
Post by: labmouse42
 Janthkin wrote:Anyone want to wager on the over/under for Eldar/Tau combinations in the main event? I'm setting it at 30%.
I know I'm taking Eldar/Deldar
65953
Post by: KillswitchUK
Just done my shopping for clothes ready for the week in Yank town!
Still got plenty to build and paint, wrote a new list so no practice for me but meh, who need practice these days !
14698
Post by: Lansirill
Good luck with the move in Mike. Wish I could be there to help out, but I have to attend my mandatory ethics training this morning. (Nevermind that I'm posting on Dakka right now... that isn't covered by the ethics rules.)
So friggen excited for tomorrow.
1943
Post by: labmouse42
Safe travels for all those heading there today.
I will see you all tomorrow!!!
6979
Post by: Nicorex
Well I am here in DC at the Hyatt. Gona try to be first in line for check in tomorrow and then off to the vendor room for early bird specials!
Not real happy that the room didn't come with a fridge and I have to pay extra for it. But since I signed up for Hyatt vip gold super card I'm getting free internet so hopefully it balances out.
I will see you boys in the lists!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Come down to gaming area for social time if y'all aren't asleep.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
I'll be there around 11am tomorrow morning. So I'll see you guys there sometime after that
29152
Post by: Clauss
See you soon brad. You can start dodging me as soon as possible to avoid embarrassment . just like last year
8049
Post by: ArbitorIan
Bright yellow Tau army went through security without a hitch, display board in the luggage, sitting in the lounge at London Heathrow with a cup of tea awaiting my flights to geek central.
It's going to be a fun weekend - see you all in a few hours...
32834
Post by: haizelhoff
Dear Mr. Brandt,
Will the streamed matches be stored so that we can watch them afterwards? The first game of the Invi starts 0.45 Finnish time and I have to wake up for work at 6.15 .
P.S. good luck Killswitch! Make Europe proud!
P.S.S. My butt still hurts from Novi Sad, luckily we have free healthcare in Finland.
74775
Post by: StyleXHobby
I really wish I could go to this. Unfortunately I'll be elsewhere! Next trip is to Blue Table Painting in Utah, though.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
The live stream games will indeed be recorded!
62226
Post by: Glocknall
Well just like a noob missed my flight to DC. How have to sit at the airport bar and drink until the next flight.
195
Post by: Blackmoor
This is the first time my army was pulled out for "additional screening".
14698
Post by: Lansirill
 Blackmoor wrote:This is the first time my army was pulled out for "additional screening".
Nova has decided to get serious about comp this year by enlisting the aid of the TSA.
74176
Post by: ComTrav
Blackmoor wrote:This is the first time my army was pulled out for "additional screening".
Clearly, you were going to use your army of plastic toy soldiers to seize control of the plane.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Where can we see updates on the Invitational round-by-round results / etc, once it kicks off? Or at least, I hope there is somewhere for this
Go Mannahnin! Dakka mods ftw
62226
Post by: Glocknall
ComTrav wrote: Blackmoor wrote:This is the first time my army was pulled out for "additional screening".
Clearly, you were going to use your army of plastic toy soldiers to seize control of the plane.
Even the TSA know eldar are way OP.
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
App.torrentoffire.com is where you should be able to find everything.
77551
Post by: Rickels
Mannahnin is at Nova!? Who am I going to chat with on Ustream now?
9594
Post by: RiTides
Yep, he's "Ragnar A." in the list for the Invitational
77551
Post by: Rickels
I know who he is, he is just usually my buddy on ustream for this. This year might be a bit more boring without him...
9594
Post by: RiTides
Ah okay . I realized that might be the case after I made the post, but left it in case other Dakkanauts weren't sure who we should all be rooting for... 
(Kidding, of course- although I am hoping a Dakkanaut takes the invitational! We've got Hulksmash and a number of others in there, too  )
20774
Post by: pretre
Game Day - Round 1: In Progress
# Player 1 Player 2
1 Brett Perkins vs Alexander Fennell
2 James Watkins vs Adam Tricola
3 Nick Nanavati vs Brad Nichols
4 Robert Fortin vs Aaron Aleong
5 Daniel Bunker vs Bill Souza
6 Robert Tilly vs Alan Bajramovic
7 Werner Born vs Tony Kopach
8 Alex Harrison vs Matt DeFranza
9 Jesse Newton vs Matt Schuchman
10 Jens Gertsen vs Andrew Gonyo
11 Neil Gilstrap vs Ben Mohlie
12 Allan Hernandez vs Brad Townsend
13 Ragnar Arnesson vs Jeremy Veysseire
14 Nick Rose vs Mark Aksel
15 Eric Hoerger vs Bob Roda
16 Kurt Clauss vs Vaden Ball
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh, Ragnar's playing one of the guys I play from Portland.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
As each game finishes, you will all see the scores update on Torrent, so feel free to track all weekend long, for the GT and Invitational.
20774
Post by: pretre
Yeah Torrent looks awesome!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Invitational round results are in and up-to-date / QC'ed (9:07PM)
Tough first round for a tough field.
Narrative and Trios ongoing for a fun time.
15718
Post by: JGrand
Checking in bright and early tomorrow morning. Getting pumped for my 3rd NOVA. It is such a great event, and I am very appreciative to all of those who make it happen 
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Invitational wise, and then there were eight.
20774
Post by: pretre
Rnd 1 # Player 1 Player 2 1 Brett Perkins 20-0 Alexander Fennell 2 James Watkins 0-20 Adam Tricola 3 Nick Nanavati 20-0 Brad Nichols 4 Robert Fortin 3-17 Aaron Aleong 5 Daniel Bunker 17-3 Alex Bessinger 6 Robert Tilly 0-20 Alan Bajramovic 7 Werner Born 7-13 Tony Kopach 8 Alex Harrison 17-3 Matt DeFranza 9 Jesse Newton 12-2 Matt Schuchman 10 Jens Gertsen 0-20 Andrew Gonyo 11 Neil Gilstrap 0-20 Ben Mohlie 12 Allan Hernandez 0-20 Brad Townsend 13 Ragnar Arnesson 0-20 Jeremy Veysseire 14 Nick Rose 20-0 Mark Aksel 15 Eric Hoerger 20-0 Bob Roda 16 Kurt Clauss 7-13 Vaden Ball Rnd 2 # Player 1 Player 2 1 Aaron Aleong 20-0 Nick Rose 2 Brett Perkins 17-3 Eric Hoerger 3 Brad Townsend 3-17 Adam Tricola 4 Nick Nanavati 20-0 Vaden Ball 5 Alan Bajramovic 10-10 Tony Kopach 6 Jeremy Veysseire 7-13 Daniel Bunker 7 Andrew Gonyo 7-13 Alex Harrison 8 Jesse Newton 17-3 Ben Mohlie 9 Kurt Clauss 17-0 Ragnar Arnesson 10 Matt DeFranza 17-0 Allan Hernandez 11 Bob Roda 3-17 Werner Born 12 Brad Nichols 20-0 Robert Fortin 13 James Watkins 3-17 Alex Bessinger 14 Neil Gilstrap 7-13 Matt Schuchman 15 Robert Tilly 13-7 Alexander Fennell 16 Jens Gertsen 7-13 Mark Aksel Automatically Appended Next Post: Mannahnin is getting savaged. Ouch.
18896
Post by: Norbu the Destroyer
Anyone know the 8??? I saw Aaron A. win, I heard Nick N. is undefeated, thats it. Must be some sort of illiteration boost. If anyone knows the other 6 and they post them it would be most appreciated.
20774
Post by: pretre
Nick is still going strong though! Automatically Appended Next Post: Norbu the Destroyer wrote:Anyone know the 8??? I saw Aaron A. win, I heard Nick N. is undefeated, thats it. Must be some sort of illiteration boost. If anyone knows the other 6 and they post them it would be most appreciated.
Totally ninja'd you.
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
Eldar vs eldar 3 rounds in a row on the ustream :(
20774
Post by: pretre
Yeah, I'd love to have Torrent list the army that the person brought.
25839
Post by: Kolath
Everyone, you can see the live results of each of the 40k events as they are reported over on Torrent of Fire. Here's the link for the GT:
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/gameday
20774
Post by: pretre
Round 1 of the Open: I love that Arbitorian got his handle on there instead of his name.
52309
Post by: Breng77
Just for info of those on Dakka, the player on the live stream (bottom of the screen) is Labmouse from Dakka.
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
Cool didn't know he made the invitational. Thought I recognized the serpents. Looks like he's doing alright.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Invitational is not what's going on, GT is.
20774
Post by: pretre
I like how you have it all spread out over the days. @hyv3mynd: there's a schedule on the Nova site so you can see what's up at any given time. http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/NOVA-OPEN-2013-SCHEDULE.pdf
33968
Post by: Tomb King
That live stream kind of drains you. Some how I am still alive after three total rounds. Take noteI hate wraithknights.
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
Ahh didn't realize first game today was invitational while second was GT.
52309
Post by: Breng77
Yup,
Next 2 games on the stream are also GT games
8049
Post by: ArbitorIan
pretre wrote: I love that Arbitorian got his handle on there instead of his name.
It was a bug but.... I'm KEEPING it.
9594
Post by: RiTides
I don't really know how to access the torrent (on phone / tablet) could someone update with Invitational / GT standings?
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
Some new names up on top which is cool. Hulks going strong still. Good old Tony never let's us down too.
Great job to all. Nick vs Ben was a good game except for some seriously long pauses to think over moves.
20774
Post by: pretre
Jeremy almost took the open last year and beat kopach this year. I'm pulling for him.
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
I'd pick Brad at this point just because he's not on the eldar/tau bandwagon.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Thanks for the update guys
33968
Post by: Tomb King
Last two games of invitational start at 1315 eastern time.
23113
Post by: jy2
Where is the site (or link to the site) again? Thanks.
23113
Post by: jy2
Thanks. I found it.
18153
Post by: tree667
anyone have any photos of Nova from day 3 or the trios?
57930
Post by: hippesthippo
So dual force org Tau is pretty good, huh? Who would've thought.
With GW shoving dual foc down our throats with those slowed supplements, we might as well just accept it and play 2k games where everybody has access to it.
38800
Post by: DaddyWarcrimes
I have to admit, I am amazed that GW randomly decided to start letting codecies ally with themselves. It's as good as we all thought it would be, too.
801
Post by: buddha
What was the winning list?
9594
Post by: RiTides
Who won Invitational, GT? Results link? Cheers
57930
Post by: hippesthippo
The link to the torrent of fire page has been posted multiple times..
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/leaderboard
Looks like Justin Cook won both W/L and BP with Tau/Tau.
Assuming no errors, congrats to Justin on a hard fought victory, fighting through a sea of Tau and Eldar players. The list of players he defeated reads like a who's who lineup of former GT winners. Downright scary.
801
Post by: buddha
Anywhere have the actual lists played and not just the armies?
3894
Post by: nickthewise
Congrats to the winners - it was fun to follow along with the 11th Company UStream and Torrent of Fire.
782
Post by: DarthDiggler
Kenny Boucher won the whole thing. He went 6-2 with pure Blood Angels. Factor in the handicap, like in golf, and he won going away.
9594
Post by: RiTides
I see a lot of "F's" (for forfeit?) on there. I guess that makes sense with so many rounds. Is there a different link for Invitational results, I don't see it on there?
782
Post by: DarthDiggler
The army breakdown of the top finishers is remarkable. Mike will have all the data from the past, but has there been another time when the top 9 finishers all had the last two codex releases? The 10th place finisher is the first guy without either Tau or Eldar in his list.
I would have to agree that being able to ally with yourself is pretty good. Being able to ally with yourself while almost no one else can is even better.
59251
Post by: Dozer Blades
Chaos can do it well.
24892
Post by: Byte
DarthDiggler wrote:The army breakdown of the top finishers is remarkable. Mike will have all the data from the past, but has there been another time when the top 9 finishers all had the last two codex releases? The 10th place finisher is the first guy without either Tau or Eldar in his list.
I would have to agree that being able to ally with yourself is pretty good. Being able to ally with yourself while almost no one else can is even better.
This post is gold.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Do you just know the armies used, or is it on the torrent somewhere?
44083
Post by: quiestdeus
We discussed it a bit here in person, but the stats on army win percentage across the entire event (not just the top bracket) is incredibly interesting.
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/stats/armies
Armies that included either Tau (primary or allies) won 66% of the time. Eldar has a similar figure.
Eldar allied to Tau? 76% win rate.
Take into account the sheer volume of both tau and eldar in attendance, and the number of tau vs tau or eldar vs eldar games that occurred keeping those rates down, and man...
It really makes you think. 
I am very excited to see what else we can mine as more and more data is gathered from ToF.
3828
Post by: General Hobbs
quiestdeus wrote:We discussed it a bit here in person, but the stats on army win percentage across the entire event (not just the top bracket) is incredibly interesting.
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/stats/armies
Armies that included either Tau (primary or allies) won 66% of the time. Eldar has a similar figure.
Eldar allied to Tau? 76% win rate.
Take into account the sheer volume of both tau and eldar in attendance, and the number of tau vs tau or eldar vs eldar games that occurred keeping those rates down, and man...
It really makes you think.
I am very excited to see what else we can mine as more and more data is gathered from ToF.
I haven't been playing nor have I read either codex. In a nutshell, what makes these armies do so well besides good players? Do they have enough anti-necron in them to push them out of the top spots?
20774
Post by: pretre
As Jeremy V said after the open... C:SM came five weeks too late.
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
My newest list is Eldar and Tau and it is easily my best after 10 years of playing. My only hope is 2,3 or even 4 of SM, Nids, IG and Orks have the goods too. Since Tau breaks the rules of shooting and they have completely removed assaulting from reserves my hopes aren't high for equal levels of power but maybe the units will get good rules and points adjustments like the aspect warriors.
62238
Post by: MarkyMark
Well done to Alex Harrison for coming 8th in the invitional and 2nd in the open!. Very good showing and representing the english ETC team I think!.
38067
Post by: spaceelf
General Hobbs wrote:quiestdeus wrote:We discussed it a bit here in person, but the stats on army win percentage across the entire event (not just the top bracket) is incredibly interesting.
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/stats/armies
Armies that included either Tau (primary or allies) won 66% of the time. Eldar has a similar figure.
Eldar allied to Tau? 76% win rate.
Take into account the sheer volume of both tau and eldar in attendance, and the number of tau vs tau or eldar vs eldar games that occurred keeping those rates down, and man...
It really makes you think.
I am very excited to see what else we can mine as more and more data is gathered from ToF.
I haven't been playing nor have I read either codex. In a nutshell, what makes these armies do so well besides good players? Do they have enough anti-necron in them to push them out of the top spots?
Tau have markerlights and riptides. The new ML rules let them increase BS against flyers. They can still reduce cover saves. The riptides have a strength 8 ap2 large blast weapon. Without cover those blast weapons wipe armies off of the table.
Eldar have wave serpents with 3+ cover, and wraithguard with ap2 flamers amongst other things.
Being able to ally with the supplement codicies allows people to take lots of the good elite stuff. There is a reason that force organization exists. Allying with yourself avoids most of the limitations of force org. I saw a tau guy playing 5 riptides yesterday. (It is not an optimal list, but it is still brutal.)
9594
Post by: RiTides
MarkyMark wrote:Well done to Alex Harrison for coming 8th in the invitional and 2nd in the open!. Very good showing and representing the english ETC team I think!.
That is impressive!
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
Just wanted to stop in and say to everyone I met and played against. Thanks for making this a bucket of fun!
To MVBrandt thanks again to you and your team for putting on an awesome event! I'm looking forward to attending again next year.
6931
Post by: frgsinwntr
 spaceelf wrote:General Hobbs wrote:quiestdeus wrote:We discussed it a bit here in person, but the stats on army win percentage across the entire event (not just the top bracket) is incredibly interesting.
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/stats/armies
Armies that included either Tau (primary or allies) won 66% of the time. Eldar has a similar figure.
Eldar allied to Tau? 76% win rate.
Take into account the sheer volume of both tau and eldar in attendance, and the number of tau vs tau or eldar vs eldar games that occurred keeping those rates down, and man...
It really makes you think.
I am very excited to see what else we can mine as more and more data is gathered from ToF.
I haven't been playing nor have I read either codex. In a nutshell, what makes these armies do so well besides good players? Do they have enough anti-necron in them to push them out of the top spots?
Tau have markerlights and riptides. The new ML rules let them increase BS against flyers. They can still reduce cover saves. The riptides have a strength 8 ap2 large blast weapon. Without cover those blast weapons wipe armies off of the table.
Eldar have wave serpents with 3+ cover, and wraithguard with ap2 flamers amongst other things.
Being able to ally with the supplement codicies allows people to take lots of the good elite stuff. There is a reason that force organization exists. Allying with yourself avoids most of the limitations of force org. I saw a tau guy playing 5 riptides yesterday. (It is not an optimal list, but it is still brutal.)
Not Optimal? you mean Justin cook? the guy that won the whole thing?
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
I thought Justin had 4? Is 5 even possible?
8630
Post by: Marcus Scipio
frgsinwntr wrote: spaceelf wrote:
Tau have markerlights and riptides. The new ML rules let them increase BS against flyers. They can still reduce cover saves. The riptides have a strength 8 ap2 large blast weapon. Without cover those blast weapons wipe armies off of the table.
Eldar have wave serpents with 3+ cover, and wraithguard with ap2 flamers amongst other things.
Being able to ally with the supplement codicies allows people to take lots of the good elite stuff. There is a reason that force organization exists. Allying with yourself avoids most of the limitations of force org. I saw a tau guy playing 5 riptides yesterday. (It is not an optimal list, but it is still brutal.)
Not Optimal? you mean Justin cook? the guy that won the whole thing?
Amazing to me as well the armchair quarterbacks that pass judgements on lists...
Chancetragedy wrote:I thought Justin had 4? Is 5 even possible?
Yes, if you take the SC Riptide, along with the three base and one ally.
6949
Post by: zedsdead
he was running only 4
7937
Post by: bogalubov
I'm glad that he restrained himself
53317
Post by: Trix
The invite and the open were both great events and I am happy to have had the opportunity to play in both. A shout out to Mike Brandt and staff that made this GT a great experience.
1943
Post by: labmouse42
What makes the riptide over the top is when you can add the IC to hit to start providing things like "Ignore Cover", Twin-Linking, or Tank Hunter.
Without those the riptides are good. With that IC providing those perks they are over the top. I hope GW FAQs it soon so ICs cannot join a riptide.
On an unrelated note, the overall event was fantastic. I highly suggest anyone who can go next year, do so.
38067
Post by: spaceelf
Marcus Scipio wrote:frgsinwntr wrote: spaceelf wrote:
Tau have markerlights and riptides. The new ML rules let them increase BS against flyers. They can still reduce cover saves. The riptides have a strength 8 ap2 large blast weapon. Without cover those blast weapons wipe armies off of the table.
Eldar have wave serpents with 3+ cover, and wraithguard with ap2 flamers amongst other things.
Being able to ally with the supplement codicies allows people to take lots of the good elite stuff. There is a reason that force organization exists. Allying with yourself avoids most of the limitations of force org. I saw a tau guy playing 5 riptides yesterday. (It is not an optimal list, but it is still brutal.)
Not Optimal? you mean Justin cook? the guy that won the whole thing?
Amazing to me as well the armchair quarterbacks that pass judgements on lists...
Chancetragedy wrote:I thought Justin had 4? Is 5 even possible?
Yes, if you take the SC Riptide, along with the three base and one ally.
I was not commenting on the nova, as I was not there and know nothing about the lists that were used. A local guy was running the ripe 5 list. It is just my opinion that 5 riptides in 1850 puts too many points in riptides hence my comment about it not being optimal.
8049
Post by: ArbitorIan
Again, many thanks to Mike and the team for creating this event. I did better than I expected, played a ton of games (reports at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/549198.page ), met a lot of nice people, and now I'm Warhammered out and off to NYC.
Thanks again, it was a great weekend!
59251
Post by: Dozer Blades
This seems like the best year yet for the NOVA Open. Well done. : )
49922
Post by: furbyballer
Anyone know where I can find the fantasy NOVA results?
28641
Post by: magodedisco
Back home safely!
All in all, it was the best Nova experience yet. Having said that, I have a few gripes to get off my chest (focusing on the GT, which is, without a doubt, the main event):
1. The five-hour delay between the last 40k GT round and the awards ceremony is a little ridiculous. I understand that the invitational is finishing up at this point, but having nothing to do for that period of time and having to drive/fly home afterward makes this a killer. You could argue that there were seminars/vendors to check out at during that period. However, there wasn't nearly enough to justify...
2. The price. It costs $100 to attend the Nova 40k GT, with $40 of that covering the fee to attend the convention. For a $40 convention, the offerings are... unimpressive. For only $30 more, one could attend an incredible four-day event like Gen Con or Dragoncon. I understand that this is a specialized event. With that being the case, maybe it shouldn't be called a convention. There were only roughly five or six vendors set up, and the (few) seminars were all mostly focused on painting (and self-defense for whatever interesting reason). I'm not really sure if there is a solution here. However, the block rate for the hotel is GREAT and makes up for the entry fee somewhat.
Barring a few other minor problems (the incredibly self-indulgent Torrent of Fire flyer, 35 minute round delay as a result of ToF, the award ceremony covering ALL the events, the few unfinished eye-blight armies) I had an awesome time. I met some cool people, played some thoroughly enjoyable games, learned a little about life, and a lot about love.
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Post by: MVBrandt
Glad you mostly had a great time! Will pass along feedback about award ceremony and timing during our debrief. Will continue doing what we can about rates, but they're in part oriented around "let's not lose any money out of organizer bank accounts," and yes ... we do fight tooth and nail w/ the hotel to get all the rates as low as we possibly can ($85/night in DC is ... well, not a lot of teeth and nails left).
If I could charge less readily, I would; the staff calls me "Santa Claus."
Will also pass along Torrent of Fire chatter to the TOF guys ... or, sort of; one of them trolls Dakka pretty heavily, so I imagine he'll see it. TOF helped the event run pretty well.
28 seminars, 7 vendors is up from 14 and about 4-5 last year; we're working on it! Promise!
In seriousness, feedback is super welcome ... positive and negative; there'll be a survey that goes out soon that gives you an opportunity to zero in on these and anything else you liked/disliked. It would be an awesome help for the future if you shared again!
Thanks for coming, and thanks for sharing.
8520
Post by: Leth
I have to say as a person who couldnt attend this year it was really awesome to see the TOF stuff online. I hope to start attending tournaments more often starting this year, so if you guys can get that system up and running that would be fantastic. Even add in a Army List section where they can be uploaded for after the event. Maybe even make it available to smaller local tournaments? Even though the statistics probably would not be as interesting to you guys it would be cool to see how national breakdowns occur across all spectrums of the hobby.
Still it looked like a great event. I had a lot of fun watching the top tables......I know the lists were posted in the chatbox but any chance we could see them like in a armylist format for easier reading? I spent most of the time trying to figureout what was what and the overhead was a little far to see details.
I hope to be able to attend next year, keep up the good work!!!!
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
I am passing copies of the army lists to Torrent of Fire for upload. That functionality is actually already present in their system.
I think they plan to enable player self-upload in the future.
28641
Post by: magodedisco
MVBrandt wrote:Glad you mostly had a great time! Will pass along feedback about award ceremony and timing during our debrief. Will continue doing what we can about rates, but they're in part oriented around "let's not lose any money out of organizer bank accounts," and yes ... we do fight tooth and nail w/ the hotel to get all the rates as low as we possibly can ($85/night in DC is ... well, not a lot of teeth and nails left).
If I could charge less readily, I would; the staff calls me "Santa Claus."
Will also pass along Torrent of Fire chatter to the TOF guys ... or, sort of; one of them trolls Dakka pretty heavily, so I imagine he'll see it. TOF helped the event run pretty well.
28 seminars, 7 vendors is up from 14 and about 4-5 last year; we're working on it! Promise!
In seriousness, feedback is super welcome ... positive and negative; there'll be a survey that goes out soon that gives you an opportunity to zero in on these and anything else you liked/disliked. It would be an awesome help for the future if you shared again!
Thanks for coming, and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the reply man! Like I said, overall it was the best Nova yet. Great job!
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Post by: Leth
Yea, self-upload that maybe doesnt show up till after the tournament. Or having the ability for the TO's to look at the list in advance but not be made public.
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Post by: ArbitorIan
MVBrandt wrote:In seriousness, feedback is super welcome ... positive and negative; there'll be a survey that goes out soon that gives you an opportunity to zero in on these and anything else you liked/disliked. It would be an awesome help for the future if you shared again!
Thanks for coming, and thanks for sharing.
Feedback is all in my BR (but it's almost all good!) at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/549198.page
I didn't really have a problem with the 7.30 start, though i did wonder why, if all the other Invitational events started at 7.30, Sunday couldn't too?? But not a biggie - you're in the same hotel as the event, and it's not like everyone is getting up at 6am to travel... Automatically Appended Next Post:  Leth wrote:Yea, self-upload that maybe doesnt show up till after the tournament. Or having the ability for the TO's to look at the list in advance but not be made public.
TBH, why not make the list public from the start of the event? It's not like anyone can change it anyway, and if all lists are public everyone has the same advantage. It would certainly up the rates of interweb discussion.
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Post by: spaguatyrine
Amazing event again Mike! 1st class all the way. For all of you who don't know there has to be an award ceremony for all the prize support that is donated from the sponsors. Much improved from last year on timing.
Mike Summerville did a great job as head judge even calling players on trying to game the clock. AMAZING!
Torrent of Fire was great (albeit a small delay). Many can learn from this experience. Had a great time in the GT and invitational! Looking to come back next year!
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Post by: thanatos67
Nova was so good this year...and to think I almost called the trip off! Overall incredibly well run. You can really tell that the Nova crew is dedicated to bringing the best event to the community and for a long time tournament player that is invaluable. Thanks guys!
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Post by: ComTrav
Had a great time--I want to appreciate the NOVA staff for all their hard work.
I was especially blown away by all the terrain, particularly the various Infinity tables.
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Post by: RiTides
Great to hear it went well!
A few things as someone who couldn't make it this year :-/
1. What the heck IS "torrent of fire", people keep saying it like it's a household name and I really have no idea what it is other than that I can see some Nova results on it! Apparently they are a "they"... I just don't know what's going on here!
2. Vendors and the like. Nova definitely should be thought of, in it's current state, as an amaaaaaazing 40k tournament with some other great events (notably warmachine), but not really a traditional convention. It sounds like this got a bit better this year and will continue to improve, but if you're wanting to enjoy your time at this, you need to register for one of the main events... there just won't be much to do / see otherwise.
I am totally going to play in the main event next year . I seem to say that every year, but I really cannot justify missing it again with this in my very backyard! Looking forward to hearing more thoughts on the GT and Invitational when folks arrive home who would normally be sharing their thoughts here
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Post by: CKO
Does anyone have the list of the top tables?
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Post by: zedsdead
 CKO wrote:Does anyone have the list of the top tables?
That would be 1 through 8 "wink"
RiTides
Torrent of fire is a new Tournament Management system that NOVA used this year to track players in the Invitational and GT tournaments. Right now its still in the testing stages having the NOVA 2013 being its first big GT to be run in asside from some small local RTT's. Having seen it in use i find it to be a pretty useful tool to help TOs run there tournaments more efficiently and allows gamers to track in "real time" how players are progressing in a Tournament. I found the scheduling and table assignment functions to be awsome. Waking up on saturday morning to have my table assignment already on my phone was really cool. I plan on using it at this years Battle for Salvation Tournament in October.
Once again Mike and all of the NOVA staff were amazing. An impeccibly run event that from the outside seem to run with barely a hiccup. This event just gets better every year i attend. Plus the competition...wow ! the invite was basically a whos-who in 40k competition gaming. Every game i played in the GT was a pleasure and the armies were just amazing.
This year i was able to spend a few days prior to the event touring around the DC area and had a great time with the wife and son. DC is a wonderfull city and i highly recommend anyone who hasnt seen it to try to get some extra time next year before the tournament and check it out. The hotel rate was great for that area and having stayed there for 7 days it cost less then $700 for the room for a full week... thats just great. And within a 5 min walk there is a ton of places to eat.
Next year i hope to spend my 50th birthday at my 5th NOVA OPEN
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Post by: Magc8Ball
Since my local group asked about it, I plugged the numbers from the army results to figure out %played and %won. This is just based on # of games, so the %played is probably off, and it doesn't account for the allies, but it should give at least a vague picture that others can work from:
army / %played / win%
(Army / % of armies / Win%)
Tau: 16%/66%
Eldar: 15%/65%
Daemons: 16%/58%
Necrons: 10%/49%
Chaos Marines: 7%/40%
GK: 5%/48%
IG: 5%/45%
DA: 6%/34%
SW: 3%/46%
BA: 3%/43%
Nids: 2%/48%
Dark Eldar: 2%/36%
SM: 2%/50%
Orks: 2%/38%
Sisters: 1%/54%
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Post by: Leth
They have a function for that in torrent of fire!
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Post by: D6Damager
I would like to see this too. Quick search produced nothing but previous years results.
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Post by: Bat Manuel
One thing that I heard quite a bit of grumbling over was the final rounds of the invitational were after the GT. The invitational only concerns 16 people(and at that point maybe like 4) but all 200+ GT attendees have to wait around for it to finish up before the award ceremony. It might be beneficial to switch those time slots and let the majority of people sleep in for the GT on Sunday and have a smoother transition to the awards. 
On another note- Thanks to Games & Stuff for having a 50% off Warmachine/Hordes sale. I finally picked up the big beastie I've been eyeing for a year
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Post by: pretre
From MVB on his site:
I'm exhausted still! This was by FAR the best NOVA yet. I have to collect a bunch of photos, do a bunch of data mining, and a whole lot of other things to write a proper post-event, but I wanted to get ahead of a couple quick things.
1) NOVA intentionally designed a drop round after 6 if people felt like relaxing on the third day. 36 people chose to. Their opponents for the next day all received games as desired. Nobody got jipped out of games 7/8. So EVERYBODY, it's COOL! There was some initial chatter about mad drops/quits, and it's not true. Even given the option, only 36/227 chose to willingly drop. The subsequent round LOOKED like a lot of drops, but was simply reflective of players watching final games, hitting seminars, playing people they've wanted to once all were out of competition, etc. Rounds 7/8 results from said drops had no impact on final standings.
2) Torrent of Fire does not accurately display NOVA Open standings. I've seen some people starting to say things like "CSM didn't finish higher than 54th" or "The guy who finished 2nd got a bye," and there's no actual final standings published yet. You're just sorting by various metrics in torrent.
3) I've never experienced the enormous level of excitement that I experienced from attendees this year. I was absolutely touched and blown away by h ow much fun people seemed to have, and how appreciative many people were in finding me and thanking me. I hope they thanked ALL the staff just as whole heartedly. If you had a great time, also, share about it! We dig around for all the kudos, and put them together for the staff Thank You party on September 21.
4) Look for the survey, and fill it out even if you didn't have a great time! It's the way by which we best improve the event year to year.
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Post by: Carnage43
 Magc8Ball wrote:Since my local group asked about it, I plugged the numbers from the army results to figure out %played and %won. This is just based on # of games, so the %played is probably off, and it doesn't account for the allies, but it should give at least a vague picture that others can work from:
army / %played / win%
(Army / % of armies / Win%)
Tau: 16%/66%
Eldar: 15%/65%
Daemons: 16%/58%
Necrons: 10%/49%
Chaos Marines: 7%/40%
GK: 5%/48%
IG: 5%/45%
DA: 6%/34%
SW: 3%/46%
BA: 3%/43%
Nids: 2%/48%
Dark Eldar: 2%/36%
SM: 2%/50%
Orks: 2%/38%
Sisters: 1%/54%
I'd be interested if we could figure out the Tau and Eldar win percentage if we could factor out mirror matches.
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Post by: MVBrandt
You can.
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/stats/armies
You'll have to register w/ torrent to view stats.
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Post by: morgendonner
GT & Invitational were both a blast again this year.
Props to the guys from Stomping Grounds for really making a heck of a showing.
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Post by: carlosthecraven
Hi
From way off in the frozen North, it looks like you had an excellent event (again).
Random thoughts:
I want to echo Spag - nice call by the head ref in the final round of the invitational to call for turn 5 with nearly 30 minutes left in the round.
Torrent of Fire - this is delightfully (perversely?) fun both to see match-ups on the fly and to mine through post-event. I love it.
11th company video - thanks guys! I liked the effort to ensure that it wasn't all Eldar-Tau all weekend.
Hopefully, I will be able to make the trip down again in 2014. 2012 was a blast, but it just wasn't going to work out financially this year (hooray for bad tenants and a wife going back to school!)... anyway, watching the matches while painting got the 40K itch going...
Cheers,
Nate
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Post by: Blackmoor
Great tournament and I had a lot of fun last weekend.
One quick question though, what was the % of games that ended on a dice roll. and those that didn't?
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Post by: MVBrandt
We did an initial run through and it looked like 85-90% finished due to random game length. That said, I'm not sure how valid that is ... many people looked to write random game length if their game finished on 5 or higher, even if that also coincided with time being called. I thought "random game length" was a sufficient response (as opposed to "completed naturally," which isn't necessarily the same), but I'm not so sure.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I had one game that ended due to time but we rolled and it wouldn't have gone on. All other games were called due to time (so 10/11). This was consistent with many of the people I talked to. I'd say over the weekend time was my biggest issue (and bear in mind I'd only not finished 3 games out of 6 GT's this year using this army before Nova).
And god help me, Tau, Eldar, and Daemons (or some combination) were everywhere.
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Post by: JGrand
We did an initial run through and it looked like 85-90% finished due to random game length. That said, I'm not sure how valid that is ... many people looked to write random game length if their game finished on 5 or higher, even if that also coincided with time being called. I thought "random game length" was a sufficient response (as opposed to "completed naturally," which isn't necessarily the same), but I'm not so sure.
The choices were a bit too binary to account for the possibilities. I suppose "random turn length", "made it through 5 turns", "didn't end on time" may be more appropriate.That being said, I was lucky enough to have 7/8 games finish comfortably before the time limit (one went through turn 4, which isn't terrible).
I'll also echo the positive comments on here. This is my third NOVA, and I've had a great time in every one. I can't recommend it enough to people--even newer players. One of the best parts of the weekend is that no matter what the skill level of the player is, there are ways to have fun. Torrent of Fire is awesome, and the event ran smoother than ever.
A big thanks to Mike and everyone else involved for all their hard work. There is definitely good reason why NOVA has become one of the 40k heavyweights so quickly.
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Post by: RiTides
Hulksmash wrote:I had one game that ended due to time but we rolled and it wouldn't have gone on. All other games were called due to time (so 10/11). This was consistent with many of the people I talked to. I'd say over the weekend time was my biggest issue (and bear in mind I'd only not finished 3 games out of 6 GT's this year using this army before Nova).
And god help me, Tau, Eldar, and Daemons (or some combination) were everywhere.
Were rounds significantly shorter for this tourney than other GTs you played this year, Hulk?
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Post by: Orock
I wonder how many GT type events vanilla space marines, orks, sisters of battle and imperial guard have won over the last year or two. I would imagine at least one each.
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Post by: pretre
Orock wrote:I wonder how many GT type events vanilla space marines, orks, sisters of battle and imperial guard have won over the last year or two. I would imagine at least one each.
According to Torrent, SOB were 4th best army by win rating (54%).
Orks were 3rd from the bottom (38%), SM were 5th (50%). IG were middle of the road (45%)
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Post by: Torrent of Ire
pretre wrote:Orock wrote:I wonder how many GT type events vanilla space marines, orks, sisters of battle and imperial guard have won over the last year or two. I would imagine at least one each.
According to Torrent, SOB were 4th best army by win rating (54%).
Orks were 3rd from the bottom (38%), SM were 5th (50%). IG were middle of the road (45%)
It's important to recognize the huge influence that army selection has on these stats. Many top players recognized that Tau and Eldar are the new top tier and switched to these armies accordingly, so there's likely to be abnormally large concentration of skilled players using lists from these codices. Win percentages alone don't tell the whole story.
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Post by: Hulksmash
 RiTides wrote: Hulksmash wrote:I had one game that ended due to time but we rolled and it wouldn't have gone on. All other games were called due to time (so 10/11). This was consistent with many of the people I talked to. I'd say over the weekend time was my biggest issue (and bear in mind I'd only not finished 3 games out of 6 GT's this year using this army before Nova).
And god help me, Tau, Eldar, and Daemons (or some combination) were everywhere.
Were rounds significantly shorter for this tourney than other GTs you played this year, Hulk?
No, they were also 2.5 hours. That's why it was so strange. Outside of the time issue on games it was an excellent event. Though some restructuring of the schedule might be in order.
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Post by: pretre
Torrent of Ire wrote:It's important to recognize the huge influence that army selection has on these stats. Many top players recognized that Tau and Eldar are the new top tier and switched to these armies accordingly, so there's likely to be abnormally large concentration of skilled players using lists from these codices. Win percentages alone don't tell the whole story.
Absolutely. I think we saw similar things happen with GK and Necrons for previous Novas. We just didn't have Torrent to instantly sort it.
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Post by: Breng77
The other thing to remember when looking at the torrent of fire stuff. Sisters appear as the 4 highest finishing army as far as win percentage, however you are only talking about 3 sisters players...not really the same as other armies with more players.
IF you consider the winning percentage of the top 3 players with each book it will paint quite a different picture. Say you take Tau over 3 players I think you look at something like 22-2. Eldar is probably similar.
Sisters going 12-10 over 3 players is far different from say Tau going 163-76 or Eldar going 121-66.
One player being successful out of 3 (say they went 6-2, that means the remaining players averaged out at 3-4) or one person doing poorly would have the opposite effect.
For armies with more players it is probably better to look at the average finish among all players as a metric, rather than the win loss for the whole army.
Also saying that top players chose to play those armies, while it enhances the win percentage, it also means there is a good likely hood that those armies are very powerful.
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Post by: dlight
This is actually a really big turn off. Everyone was holding out hope that the balance in 6th would remain on par.
In order to have a shot at winning, you have to play 1 (or both) of the 2 latest codexes.
Pretty lame honestly. It is also surprising that so many players are willing to play into this game. You can't tell me the
majority of them were Tau and\or Eldar veterans.
GW is trying to turn the 40K business model into something similar to MTG. At each "cycle" or what have you, you need to buy
a new army to compete.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I was second in the Invitational for Renman with DA/IG and third in the Open with the same army. You don't have to be playing newest codexes to compete.
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Post by: dlight
No. The top 9 tables were all some flavor of Tau\Eldar. http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2013/leaderboard
You got 12th place. Commendable, but you couldn't have won the whole thing and you know it.
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Post by: pretre
Ren Man. The big prize is what he was talking about. MVBrandt wrote:
2) Torrent of Fire does not accurately display NOVA Open standings. I've seen some people starting to say things like "CSM didn't finish higher than 54th" or "The guy who finished 2nd got a bye," and there's no actual final standings published yet. You're just sorting by various metrics in torrent.
Also, read the post from MVB that I quoted above.
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Post by: Blackmoor
I did not have any game go to turn #6. One game we wrote finished on turn even though we rushed through turn #5 and we knew that is was going to end then. At the end of the game we rolled a dice and it would have ended and wrote that it ended normally (which is not the same as rushing through the turn and knowing it will end then).
A common thread talking to the players was that time for the games was a major issue.
I also had one game end on turn #3. He was rolling his saves one dice at a time and slow playing. He only had a couple of models left (and I did not lose a kill point) but the call came out to not start another turn at his bottom of turn #3. I lost because I was only in one table quarter at this point not expecting the game to end on turn 3. My feedback is the same that they gave to Adepticon a few years ago...do not say not more turns! Adepticon now tells players to not start another turn if you can't finish it which is very different. I could have done 2 turns in 5 minutes with the amount of models that he had left, but we had to stop.
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Post by: dlight
pretre wrote:Ren Man. The big prize is what he was talking about.
MVBrandt wrote:
2) Torrent of Fire does not accurately display NOVA Open standings. I've seen some people starting to say things like "CSM didn't finish higher than 54th" or "The guy who finished 2nd got a bye," and there's no actual final standings published yet. You're just sorting by various metrics in torrent.
Also, read the post from MVB that I quoted above.
Okay, that makes sense. With that in mind, does anyone know what the correct top 5 tables were by army breakdown?
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Post by: Breng77
Blackmoor, the issue with that response is that both players need to agree that they can finish the turns. Which if someone is slowplaying they won't
IF we play each other, and there is 15 min left and we are part way through turn 3, and I will win if we don't play another turn there is little incentive for me to say, sure I can finish another turn.
In general what solves this is making sure players are aware of the time, and penalties for slow playing.
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Post by: RiTides
Hulksmash wrote:I was second in the Invitational for Renman with DA/ IG and third in the Open with the same army. You don't have to be playing newest codexes to compete.
That's pretty impressive! Any chance you could have snagged the top award in the Open if you had played the last 2 matches, or are those not factored in?
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Post by: Breng77
If you look at torrent of fire in the open the first number is the bracket number. So those would be the top 16 players going into day 2. Or the top 8 tables.
SO at the very least you had in that group (could be others not sure)
Hulk - IG/ DA
Ben Mohlie- Necrons/Orks
Tony Kopach - Ig/Wolves
Nick Nanivati - Daemons/ CSM
Werner Born- Neconrs/Tau
Bob Roda - Daemons
So 6/16 that were not just Tau and eldar (though one of those has Tau allies)
As for Top tables
Ben Mohlie was on the Top table in the last round Automatically Appended Next Post: RiTides wrote: Hulksmash wrote:I was second in the Invitational for Renman with DA/ IG and third in the Open with the same army. You don't have to be playing newest codexes to compete.
That's pretty impressive! Any chance you could have snagged the top award in the Open if you had played the last 2 matches, or are those not factored in?
They were not factored in, which is why rounds 7-8 were optional.
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Post by: RiTides
Breng77 wrote:They were not factored in, which is why rounds 7-8 were optional.
Really... for none of the awards? So they were basically "for fun" games on the last day, other than for determining top general in the top bracket (or top general for every bracket)?
I can see why folks opted not to play them if they were out of the running for the top overall / bracket spot, then...
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Post by: Breng77
Correct they were only factored in for Top general in each bracket.
Which is one reason why some guys skipped to go do other things, (or rest for some of the top invite players.). Because they are for fun if you are not in the running.
Essentially there are drops the last day every year, when you play 8+ games it happens. Local guys don't come back, guys that are driving home leave early, or people go sight seeing. IT is better that they know that people are going to drop, then need to scramble at the last minute to reseed.
I like that this year there was an option (though I did not make it this year) to play though, last year, it kind of sucked losing saturday night and knowing you were done.
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Post by: MVBrandt
Players have repeatedly asked for two things over the years:
1) Not to HAVE to play every round
2) Not to be DISALLOWED from playing every round
So we gave them that.
RiTides, the final comment about "I can see why" is a pointless one, because there are dramatically, and I do mean dramatically, more awards and prizes to play for at NOVA over the last 2 rounds that in literally any other format. Not only are you still eligible for pretty big lemonade raffle prizes, but there are up to 16 bracket champ awards up for grabs, plus the pride of where you ultimately finish within each bracket. This gives even people who got shellacked 0-4 in their first four games something meaningful and substantial to play for. We've heard suggestions already of also doing bracket ren men ... and sure, why not add that next year? I'm not opposed to taking the GT from 24 awards to 40. But ... did you really just suggest we're somehow dropping the ball on giving people stuff to play for?
In other words, it doesn't hold water that people dropped because of what they had to still play for, b/c if that's true you'd have had less drops than any other event. The NUMBER of prizes there are to play for has nothing to do with an event's quality or drop rates (IMO). (So, my above comment about formats is not a critique on any other or a praise of our own ... it's just a datapoint to abolish a half-brush comment about why drops happened).
Truth is when you give some people the opportunity to play in a shorter, more laid back 6-round GT format ... many of them (in this case, 36 of 227) will choose to take it, and neither they nor the format should be judged for that. It's generally called giving people what they want ... it cost no one games, it didn't screw up all the standings, and it allowed players to choose their own GT adventure without having to pay for a format that was in some way not quite what they wanted (i.e., too many games, not enough, etc.).
PS - Said in short, the drops at NOVA ... which were not an insane amount anyway, were by design. We responded to participant survey and gave less energetic players an opportunity to have a more relaxed event. It didn't hurt anyone in the standings, didn't take anything away from anyone, still left 180-some players rocking it Sunday morning in Round 7, and yada yada.
There's a little bit of an undertone of "DROPS HAPPENED WHAT WENT WRONG?!" For us, by literal design, drops happened ... things went right. We WANTED people to drop ... if they WANTED to drop. Instead of feeling pressured to play once they were out of the running for whatever prize path they wanted ... or once they wanted to take seminars on Sunday ... or see DC ... or drive home ... or shop vendors .. or watch top table games.
And yes, I'm a little sensitive here. The drops were actually a sign of format success. It's like an artist went out and said "I'm going to paint the Mona Lisa," and then got carped on for painting an excellent Mona Lisa.
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Post by: Breng77
Other things to consider
There are 32 Invitational players who can play 13 games.
People also play the Narative, and Trios events on top of the open.
So when there is other stuff going on....and you are out of the running, have the choice to relax is a nice one, as is having the choice to play on if that is what you want.
It really is the best solution. In most GTs there are many players that have "nothing to play for" after round 2 for instance...other than just to play. Which with say 5 games is no big deal (though I have seen players drop after one day of a GT numerous times), but with 8 games+ over 3 days...People just get tired, and rather than force themselves through some more games...they drop and the tourny is reseeded.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Essentially what MVbrandt said. I'm hoping to make it back to NOVA next year, the system is great, and I hope it keeps improving as it has.
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Post by: Blackmoor
Drops were a great option.
There are a lot of rounds, and if you are out of it why keep playing? You have already played in at least 6 games, you need more?
Also there are a lot of people with long drives (5+ hours) and this gives them a head start (unlike last year when they were leaving after 6pm).
Sleeping in, and packing up and checking out can be done at a relaxed pace instead of rushing between rounds.
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Post by: spaguatyrine
The format is fine. I agree that maybe pairings a few minutes earlier and the ability to do everything up to beginning of turn 1 helps (What I did at the Indy Open- Round starts at 1:30, pairings will be up at 1:15 and you can do all pregame mechanics). But everything else was great.
I dropped round 8 for a specific reason! To watch a 4 riptide list (justin cook) play against a necron list (ben Mohlie) in case I had to play the other 4 riptide list which was almost the same in the final 2 rounds of the invitational.
Turns out I did and watching the list gave me ideas. The 8th game would have done me nothing as I wasn't in the running for battle master. Some could say its the only reason I beat the list ......Not really but it gave me crucial information to make tactical decisions!
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Post by: RiTides
MVBrandt, I really can't see where you got your response from my quote:
RiTides wrote:I can see why folks opted not to play them if they were out of the running for the top overall / bracket spot, then...
From what I can tell, you wanted people to drop if they weren't really interested in playing the last day, and my saying "I can see why" wasn't some mask for an undercurrent of "Why don't you have more prizes!?" Your whole response to me seems centered on prizes... when honestly, I don't care much about prizes at a GT. It was a very pleasant surprise winning a theme one at AdeptiCon, but actually at Blobs Park the prizes for "top general of each army" and the etc got a bit tiring. So, by no means was I suggesting that you should add a "best overall" award for each bracket. I really think you're displacing onto my comment here!
Basically, if the last day does not count towards one's overall score, I can see why people chose not to play. As in Hulksmash's case, he was in the running for best overall, and didn't get penalized for not playing the last day, so it makes sense not to play the last day... since I assume he was all 40k'ed out!
For myself, being local, I'd probably skip playing the last day in this case, too.
So, "I can see why folks opted not to play" or saying "It makes sense that folks opted not to play" shouldn't be offensive and really shouldn't draw the response from you that it did.
Regarding scheduling, having the prizes after these optional games seems like a bit of a scheduling issue for folks who could otherwise benefit from not playing them (i.e. if they need to get started driving early)... I'm not sure what the solution to that is, if you didn't want to give out all the prizes that were already determined (i.e. not top general) first.
But to sum it all up, you're either open to feedback or not, and going off on a rather innocent comment like that isn't really giving off a strong "open to feedback" vibe! I have no problem with your making the last day's games optional, and given my schedule in general I would likely opt out of those games, too (unless I was in the running for best general, of course). That's why I said "I can see why" people opted not to play them. No offense intended, and honestly, none should be taken by a comment like that . It is a very fair statement, and heck, maybe other GTs will follow suit...
------------
Edit: I'd also just like to add that when I said "Really?" in my post, it was genuine surprise. I had been puzzling over how Hulk was listed with two F's for his final games but could have placed so high in the overall standings (third overall!). It's hard to convey tone over the internet... but believe me when I say, I don't think my intended tone was anywhere in the ballpark of what you read it as . I'm a fan of you, and this event, and this was the first I'd heard of optional games on the final day of a GT. It's interesting, and I was asking about it genuinely... nothing more!
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Post by: Chancetragedy
As someone who dropped round 7/8 I gotta say I LOVED the choice. I went 3-1 into the 3rd bracket then get shellacked in my first 2 games. So instead of getting up early and getting my face beat in for 2 more rounds potentially leaving a sour taste, I dropped and enjoyed my morning socializing and watching games then left for my almost 10 hour drive.
With the time for games exception, which only came into play in 1 of my games. And the 1 torrent of fire delay. I thought the nova ran amazingly smooth. everyone for the most part was incredible. And things ran really smooth. This was a tournament experience I will be raving about and am already looking forward to returning to next year.
Kudos MVBrandt and the NOVA crew for putting on an amazing event!
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Post by: RiTides
Chancetragedy wrote:As someone who dropped round 7/8 I gotta say I LOVED the choice. I went 3-1 into the 3rd bracket then get shellacked in my first 2 games. So instead of getting up early and getting my face beat in for 2 more rounds potentially leaving a sour taste, I dropped and enjoyed my morning socializing and watching games then left for my almost 10 hour drive.
Nice and I can see the benefit of it! But in this case, would it have made sense to have the non-best-general awards earlier in the event, if possible? Just curious since I can see a lot of folks wanting to get started on a drive, but then they're missing the awards ceremony / including some they had a shot at!
Great to hear such positive reviews from everyone this year, too . I think it has always been positive but people seem particularly stoked post-event this time around!
55803
Post by: Chancetragedy
Yah it would have been nice to have the awards ceremony earlier for sure. I'd have probably been annoyed if I went 4-0 in my bracket only to have to wait for the invitational to finish up for the awards ceremony. But idk I think no matter what's done some people aren't going to be happy about something. I think the way the tournament was setup as a whole was a solid A.
I'm gonna have to think about things like that for the questionnaire because I'm not totally sure what i think could be changed without either A. Leaving some people out or B. being all inclusive but annoying those that are only eligible for raffle lemonade prizes.
1406
Post by: Janthkin
Blackmoor wrote:A common thread talking to the players was that time for the games was a major issue. My feedback is the same that they gave to Adepticon a few years ago...do not say not more turns! Adepticon now tells players to not start another turn if you can't finish it which is very different. I could have done 2 turns in 5 minutes with the amount of models that he had left, but we had to stop.
This impacted me in non-trivial ways. I think I had 2 games end naturally, another 2 that made it to turn 5 (without time to roll for a turn 6), and the other 4 ended on turn 4. And that's with me using every "play quickly" trick I know from years of tournament Tyranid play.* I'm fairly certain that none of my opponents were trying for it, but in a few of the games, the "15 minutes - don't start another turn!" call came during their turn, at the bottom of the game turn. When one player knows that the game will end, and can now move accordingly, but the other player didn't...it makes for imbalanced outcomes. *With the exception of my dice tray. I don't know why these are outright forbidden by the rules, but it honestly cost us at least 5 minutes in every game, because EVERY large dice roll has at least one or two cocked dice on terrain/models, plus sorting out misses takes longer on the larger spread that occurs on the table surface, collecting them up again, etc. And when 75% of your opponents are playing Tau or Eldar, you end up with a lot of large dice rolls. This was my first NOVA, and I'm glad I went. I enjoyed hanging out with people I usually only see once a year at Adepticon. Mike & crew do a great job of organizing the event, keeping it running smoothly, and generally riding herd on a couple hundred wild gamers. That said, I don't think I'll return. Couple factors: --First, basic philosophical difference, I think - I like the random factors that they have very carefully removed from the game, i.e. different terrain on different tables, plus player-placed objectives. Every game started feeling very much the same after a while; that was aided, no doubt, by the fact that I played 6/8 of my games on only 2 different tables (3 each on tables 24 & 17). (Because terrain setup is similar on each table, I know that's an acceptable scenario under the NOVA setup, but it got a little monotonous. And while terrain is similar, it's not to be confused for identical - the center piece, in particular, varied significantly - an essentially impassable 4" square tower piece on table 17, vs. a 10" wide LoS-blocking wall/ruin on table 25.) --Second, it's more difficult to get to the NOVA for me than Adepticon or Wargamescon, without being more fun than either of those. It's about as difficult to get to as the ATC this year, but the ATC offers some really unique game theory, given the team nature of the event. Basically, it's a distance handicap - this would be a "can't miss" event if I lived east of the Mississippi.
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Post by: zedsdead
ill echo blackmoors sentiments.
Having a 7 hour trip home it was great being able to drop my last game to get an early start on the ride home. i had played 10 games up to that point plus 2 open gaming ones and frankly i was wiped out.
so as much as it bummed me out to miss the end.. it was great having the option to get started home early
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Post by: extrenm(54)
NOVA Open 2013 was first NOVA experience. I played in the GT as well as the trios tournament.
About the GT: Overall I really enjoyed this event. It was well organized and I got to play 8 great games. That being said there were a few things I did not like:
1. 2.5 hour rounds. In all of my games this simply was not enough time. I think that three hour rounds would really help.
2. For the most part, I found the missions to be overly complicated and very time consuming to score.
3. In general I liked the terrain set up, but during the standard terrain setup many of the line of sight blocking pieces of terrain in the center of the tables were U shaped, which made it impossible to shoot at a unit hiding in this terrain unless you were directly behind it. In my opinion choosing the side of the table that had access to the U shaped terrain gave an advantage to that player.
Again, I really enjoyed the GT and plan to attend again next year, I just wanted to give some feedback.
About the trios tournament:
This was a fun event, the problem for me was the timing. I know it is my own fault for signing up for it, but the 7:30PM end time of the GT and the 8:30PM start time of the trios meant that I did not really have time to relax and eat dinner, something that was a bigger deal than I thought it would be. I would have much preferred if the trios event had been on its own day. If it continues to be on the same days as the GT, I do not plan on attending again.
I look forward to next year.
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Post by: Tomb King
The problem with having the open award ceremony early is a lot of the invitational players are in the open as well and more times then not an invitational player places in the open.
The same criticism could be flipped if the invitational played first then waited for the open to finish for the results. They had to be at different times. So not much can be done about the award ceremony imo. Unless they give awards while people are still playing and just hold the prizes for people still participating. Which kind of defeats the point of an award ceremony.
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Post by: RiTides
Or take a break and have no one playing during the award ceremony, say at lunch on Sunday, for all but the yet-to-be-decided awards.
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Post by: Janthkin
Tomb King wrote:The problem with having the open award ceremony early is a lot of the invitational players are in the open as well and more times then not an invitational player places in the open.
The same criticism could be flipped if the invitational played first then waited for the open to finish for the results. They had to be at different times. So not much can be done about the award ceremony imo. Unless they give awards while people are still playing and just hold the prizes for people still participating. Which kind of defeats the point of an award ceremony.
The difference is that delaying the awards for the Invitational inconveniences almost no one, as those people are still active in the GT.
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Post by: MVBrandt
I think some schedule tweaking here is perfectly reasonable.
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Post by: frgsinwntr
I, as well as a few other competitive GT players, who happen to be teachers would love a competitive event on labor day weekend that is LATE Friday for 1 game (if you make this game you can skip game 1 on Saturday morning which would be super early), followed by Saturday and Sunday of games. With Monday a huge holiday... would be great to have that day to drive home.
The first round results could wait to be entered until the second wave of people finished their game.... Since the first round is random pairing, i see no reason it would mess up the results all that much...
With the event needing us to be there Friday, which is often one of the first days of school which we can't take off... it makes it impossible for us to get there.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Not sure where the anger is coming from but I don't know that I couldn't have won the whole thing. My list held strong all weekend as was evident from my showing. Bear in mind I was top 5-8 based on win track. I was 5-0 and lost game 6. That means there were only 4 players that were guaranteed ahead of me on that track. That's based on the win path column. And Kopach (another person not using Eldar, Tau, or Daemons) was in there with me. Automatically Appended Next Post:  frgsinwntr wrote:I, as well as a few other competitive GT players, who happen to be teachers would love a competitive event on labor day weekend that is LATE Friday for 1 game (if you make this game you can skip game 1 on Saturday morning which would be super early), followed by Saturday and Sunday of games. With Monday a huge holiday... would be great to have that day to drive home. The first round results could wait to be entered until the second wave of people finished their game.... Since the first round is random pairing, i see no reason it would mess up the results all that much... With the event needing us to be there Friday, which is often one of the first days of school which we can't take off... it makes it impossible for us to get there.
Not a bad idea actually. Start the Invitational Thursday (play 2-3 games) and then finish it on Friday with the GT starting between 5-7pm. Has the added benefit of only one 4 game day (Saturday) if you do three on Thursday.
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Post by: yermom
As far as scheduling goes why not make the invitational Thursday night and all day Friday? Then have the gt go on Saturday and Sunday. This would give you as to's more time to bracket and allow only gt players to not have to take Friday off from work. In addition the invitational loses a lot of hype since most people already left by the time of its finale. By having it happen first people not playing in it will actually care about it. Lastly for those playing in both and knocked out of the open on Sunday but not the invitational they had to wait through 2 rounds to ply in something they actually had a shot in. Meaning they couldn't leave to check out dc or other events.
Just a thought, Nick
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Post by: Breng77
Isn't that how it ran maybe 2 years ago, the first bracket year. 4 games Saturday and 4 on Sunday
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Post by: Target
Agreed with the above sentiments - while NOVA is always a great event, I won't go into the positives too much (as we know them, I've went like 4 years in a row now), but the points I feel could be improved:
-I'd really like to see the events separated like Nick and others above mentioned, having the invitational at the beginning, the awards for it, and then the GT on Saturday/Sunday. It'd benefit a lot of folks who can't take off work, and provide more continuity for both events. If you're running two lists, having games from two different events separated by ~30 minutes. Also, using more of thursday for gaming for the invitational means a lighter schedule in general, as you wouldnt need to do 1 game, 4, 4, 4 (thursday, friday, saturday, sunday). You could instead do a bit lighter, less burn-out prone schedule of something like:
Thurdsay: 3 invitational
Friday: 2 invitational, 1 GT
Saturday: 3 GT (seeding occurs)
Sunday: Games 5,6, then people free to watch the finals of games 7-8
That's definitely not perfect, but just an illustration of somerthing I'd think might work a little better if it was possible. No day has more than 3 games, except sunday, and that's only for the people in the bracket finals (so not everyone) and it allows everyone else to watch the finals of their brackets, or other brackets, or continue playing games if they desire.
-Increased time limits to 3 hours, and pairings up at least 10 minutes before the round starts. Many round the pairings went up right when it started, and then the schedule was kept. Having pairings pushed to phones is awesome, and torrent of fire worked great (a few kinks, but for it's first roll out, it went impressively) but you still lose round time if pairings push at 1:58 and the round still begins at 2.
I had, out of my 9 games, 1 end naturally - against an Ork player, between us we had 300 models on the table, and 3 games end due to tabling. My other 5 ended on turn 4, and affected the outcome heavily. I timed my turns, I reminded my opponents, but often it's just not enough, especcially if you know them and don't want to get a judge involved. I'll admit I left a bit baffled as I've played in plenty of GTs and not had this be an issue, so not sure what solution to suggest other than a lighter schedule in general or more time.
And beyond being able to finish the games where players can't seem to make timely decisions ( :-P ), there's the added benefit of more relaxed games where you get to know your opponent rather than just hustling.
Just my .02 on it, was still a great time to see everyone and catch up like every year, cheers guys
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Post by: quiestdeus
Just adding another voice to the "2.5 hours did not seem like enough time" crowd.
Please do not get me wrong, I had an absolute blast at my first NOVA and will definitely attend again next year - but only one of my games ended due to random turn length.
I was in the bottom half of the GT most of the weekend, and definitely heard some... unique perspectives and "advice" as people were filling out their scoresheets. It felt like we were all filling out the sheet at the same time (after time was called), almost always one, if not both, of the tables next to me needed to borrow my pen. I saw one pair of gents roll at the end of the game to see if it would have ended "naturally" AFTER dice-down had been called, and use that to circle "ended due to random turn length." Even better, after the 6th game my opponent and I clearly heard one guy insist he and his opponent had to circle "ended due to random turn length" or they were going to be penalized for slow playing...
I am curious to see what would actually happen if a major event dropped to something like 1500 points.
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Post by: morgendonner
quiestdeus wrote:I am curious to see what would actually happen if a major event dropped to something like 1500 points.
Just as a random continuation of that thought, when I was talking to Alex Harrison at some point over the course of the weekend he mentioned in UK they mainly play 1650 for GTs and that they found it doesn't really affect their lists but allows for games to be more timely and continue out to dice rolls. Might be worth thinking about, I've never really toyed around with 1650 lists myself but if time is an issue and there's no wiggle room to expand rounds, the other main option is to cut back on points again. I don't think anybody missed playing 2000 points from last year. I also will throw my support in with the group of other GT/Invitational players who would like to see the two events separated. I think Thursday night nobody would have had a problem getting in another game or two (maybe we could throw together a survey to find out for sure?) to avoid waking up at 6:30 am each day. Again, this is me just being a little nitpicky / spitballing ideas because I had a blast. I think being able to drop the last two Open games was a good feature, as it was my only chance to catch up on a little sleep and also check out the awesome vendors.
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Post by: dlight
Hulksmash wrote:
Not sure where the anger is coming from but I don't know that I couldn't have won the whole thing. My list held strong all weekend as was evident from my showing.
Bear in mind I was top 5-8 based on win track. I was 5-0 and lost game 6. That means there were only 4 players that were guaranteed ahead of me on that track. That's based on the win path column. And Kopach (another person not using Eldar, Tau, or Daemons) was in there with me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
frgsinwntr wrote:I, as well as a few other competitive GT players, who happen to be teachers would love a competitive event on labor day weekend that is LATE Friday for 1 game (if you make this game you can skip game 1 on Saturday morning which would be super early), followed by Saturday and Sunday of games. With Monday a huge holiday... would be great to have that day to drive home.
The first round results could wait to be entered until the second wave of people finished their game.... Since the first round is random pairing, i see no reason it would mess up the results all that much...
With the event needing us to be there Friday, which is often one of the first days of school which we can't take off... it makes it impossible for us to get there.
Not a bad idea actually. Start the Invitational Thursday (play 2-3 games) and then finish it on Friday with the GT starting between 5-7pm.
Has the added benefit of only one 4 game day (Saturday) if you do three on Thursday.
Perhaps my post came across the wrong way. I meant no disrespect to your personal skills.
I just don't think the 6th edition codexes are turning out to be balanced, and I don't think DA have the tools within the book to win an event like this.
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Post by: hippesthippo
What takes so long is those darn shooty armies with a million things to shoot. Anyone who played against a mediocre player with a leafblower or venomspam list in 5th knows what I'm talking about. Hahaha.
I should note that I did not attend this event. However, a close friend attended both the open and invite and he told me that the dramatically different methods of scoring each mission increased the amount of time spent pondering exactly what it was he needed to do in order to win.
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Post by: Tomb King
 hippesthippo wrote:What takes so long is those darn shooty armies with a million things to shoot. Anyone who played against a mediocre player with a leafblower or venomspam list in 5th knows what I'm talking about. Hahaha.
I should note that I did not attend this event. However, a close friend attended both the open and invite and he told me that the dramatically different methods of scoring each mission increased the amount of time spent pondering exactly what it was he needed to do in order to win.
You are half correct. All three of the top armies are time consuming armies.
Daemons: Usually psychic heavy list meaning a lot of rolling to get things done.
Eldar: For the most part move multiple times a turn. Movement phase, battle focus, and in some cases jump moves.
Tau: Same issue as above. People take time to move models and if your possibly moving some of those units 3 times a turn it can lengthen the game play.
Add this to a bunch of good players who are not utilizing pre-measuring to an extreme and you have yourself a significantly slower game then in 5th.
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Post by: Stoffer
Lists available anywhere?
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Post by: Glocknall
So I had a blast at my first NoVA. Absolutely blown away by the event and got 7 awesome games in the weekend. It was great to meet Neil and Pat, Labmouse42 (Whiskey is on me next time), my roomy Chance who was awesome, Frank and Sean from the Icehouse Warriors in Delaware, and so many more. Thanks to all for being so approachable and helpful. It really made the experience worthwhile. The NOVA staff was incredible and can't thank them enough for their hard work. I will definitely be coming back next year. Hopefully I can bring my crew from Gainesville!
I had a lot of games not finish as well but i blame that mainly on myself not making it a priority rather than a flaw in the format. The Missions were quick to start up and I didn't really have a problem with the way time was being called. Torrent of Fire was a very big asset through the whole thing and the ability to get your paring up and not have to crowd around the judges table made things easy.
My biggest complaint was with the alternate terrain layout used on the first day. I pointed out to the Head Judge that on many tables the terrain was pushed to the center leaving entire deployment zones w/o LoS blocking terrain. In my second game we played Hammer and Anvil and I had one LoS blocker deep in my deployment and no other significant piece until my opponents deployment zone. That left a huge no mans land which made it difficult against shooting armies. Would like to see some more robust LoS blocking pieces placed if the alternate layout is used again. The alternate layout played heavily to shooting armies who already dominate the meta. The standard layout was excellent.
I can't say enough how impressed I was by the staff and their professionalism. The attendees were extremely friendly and really put the tournament player stereotype on it's head.
See you all at NoVA 2014!
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Post by: Malagant
I second Glocknall's evaluation of the Alternate Terrain Layout....that's really my only complaint about the whole party. It made the already "dominant" super-shooty-goodness armies even more dominant.
Here's a quick write-up of my fun at NOVA:
http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/home-from-nova.html
Thanks again to Mike and ALL the NOVA staff!
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Post by: krootman.
yermom wrote:As far as scheduling goes why not make the invitational Thursday night and all day Friday? Then have the gt go on Saturday and Sunday. This would give you as to's more time to bracket and allow only gt players to not have to take Friday off from work. In addition the invitational loses a lot of hype since most people already left by the time of its finale. By having it happen first people not playing in it will actually care about it. Lastly for those playing in both and knocked out of the open on Sunday but not the invitational they had to wait through 2 rounds to ply in something they actually had a shot in. Meaning they couldn't leave to check out dc or other events.
Just a thought, Nick
Target wrote:Agreed with the above sentiments - while NOVA is always a great event, I won't go into the positives too much (as we know them, I've went like 4 years in a row now), but the points I feel could be improved:
-I'd really like to see the events separated like Nick and others above mentioned, having the invitational at the beginning, the awards for it, and then the GT on Saturday/Sunday. It'd benefit a lot of folks who can't take off work, and provide more continuity for both events. If you're running two lists, having games from two different events separated by ~30 minutes. Also, using more of thursday for gaming for the invitational means a lighter schedule in general, as you wouldnt need to do 1 game, 4, 4, 4 (thursday, friday, saturday, sunday). You could instead do a bit lighter, less burn-out prone schedule of something like:
Thurdsay: 3 invitational
Friday: 2 invitational, 1 GT
Saturday: 3 GT (seeding occurs)
Sunday: Games 5,6, then people free to watch the finals of games 7-8
That's definitely not perfect, but just an illustration of somerthing I'd think might work a little better if it was possible. No day has more than 3 games, except sunday, and that's only for the people in the bracket finals (so not everyone) and it allows everyone else to watch the finals of their brackets, or other brackets, or continue playing games if they desire.
-Increased time limits to 3 hours, and pairings up at least 10 minutes before the round starts. Many round the pairings went up right when it started, and then the schedule was kept. Having pairings pushed to phones is awesome, and torrent of fire worked great (a few kinks, but for it's first roll out, it went impressively) but you still lose round time if pairings push at 1:58 and the round still begins at 2.
I had, out of my 9 games, 1 end naturally - against an Ork player, between us we had 300 models on the table, and 3 games end due to tabling. My other 5 ended on turn 4, and affected the outcome heavily. I timed my turns, I reminded my opponents, but often it's just not enough, especcially if you know them and don't want to get a judge involved. I'll admit I left a bit baffled as I've played in plenty of GTs and not had this be an issue, so not sure what solution to suggest other than a lighter schedule in general or more time.
And beyond being able to finish the games where players can't seem to make timely decisions ( :-P ), there's the added benefit of more relaxed games where you get to know your opponent rather than just hustling.
Just my .02 on it, was still a great time to see everyone and catch up like every year, cheers guys
The issue here, is that you have to cater to the masses, while I hopefully will be playing in the invitational this yr I would like a schedule where you avoid a day with 4 open games if possible.
Thurs you could do 3 invitational games, Friday 3 open games, Saturday 3 open games one invitational game, Sunday the final invitational game first followed up by the final 2 open games. This way you only have 1 day with 4 games (assuming you play in both events). Yes invitational players have to take an extra day off, but most of the the ones I spoke to, ended up taking Thursday off anyways.
I don't think there is a perfect solution to this problem, as there are only so many days in which to play all these games in.
Anyways, I had a fantastic time. It was great catching up with everyone and I even almost ended up with a certain rubber duckie The whole event went off mostly with out a hitch, and even when one of my scores was improperly entered Mike personally came over and made sure it was fixed for me. Also the super nova swag bag was really impressive and the vip perks were alot more useful then other major gts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Glocknall wrote:So I had a blast at my first NoVA. Absolutely blown away by the event and got 7 awesome games in the weekend. It was great to meet Neil and Pat, Labmouse42 (Whiskey is on me next time), my roomy Chance who was awesome, Frank and Sean from the Icehouse Warriors in Delaware, and so many more. Thanks to all for being so approachable and helpful. It really made the experience worthwhile. The NOVA staff was incredible and can't thank them enough for their hard work. I will definitely be coming back next year. Hopefully I can bring my crew from Gainesville!
I had a lot of games not finish as well but i blame that mainly on myself not making it a priority rather than a flaw in the format. The Missions were quick to start up and I didn't really have a problem with the way time was being called. Torrent of Fire was a very big asset through the whole thing and the ability to get your paring up and not have to crowd around the judges table made things easy.
My biggest complaint was with the alternate terrain layout used on the first day. I pointed out to the Head Judge that on many tables the terrain was pushed to the center leaving entire deployment zones w/o LoS blocking terrain. In my second game we played Hammer and Anvil and I had one LoS blocker deep in my deployment and no other significant piece until my opponents deployment zone. That left a huge no mans land which made it difficult against shooting armies. Would like to see some more robust LoS blocking pieces placed if the alternate layout is used again. The alternate layout played heavily to shooting armies who already dominate the meta. The standard layout was excellent.
I can't say enough how impressed I was by the staff and their professionalism. The attendees were extremely friendly and really put the tournament player stereotype on it's head.
See you all at NoVA 2014!
That as the reason I brought the skyshield, it saved me in the first 3 games.
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Post by: RiTides
Target wrote:Thurdsay: 3 invitational
Friday: 2 invitational, 1 GT
Saturday: 3 GT (seeding occurs)
Sunday: Games 5,6, then people free to watch the finals of games 7-8
My take, is that even for folks not playing in both, it's nice to have them separated. A lot of folks on Dakka want to follow the Invitational, but honestly coverage of it got quite lost with it being split before and after/during the Open. Off-hand I can't remember who won and there has been little discussion of it compared to years when it was grouped together.
I like Target's suggested layout because the only day that there are 4 Open games is on Sunday, and only for a limited number of people. It also gives you the opportunity to do something else on Sunday for the last 2 rounds where most people are out of the running for best general- maybe something crazy like a team round or the like (just an idea ).
That said, you could also put two Open games on Friday, and then you'd only need to have 3 on Sunday. It means the re-seeding would need to happen Saturday afternoon, but I think that's pretty reasonable with only 3 games scheduled for that day:
Thurdsay: 3 invitational
Friday: 2 invitational, 2 GT
Saturday: 3 GT (seeding occurs in afternoon)
Sunday: 3 GT
You can also expand the schedule a bit if you don't try to make it so that Open players can play in the evening Trios- it sounds like that was too exhausting to really have fun doing anyway, so you can have them overlap if needed.
Pretty sure there's a scheduling solution here (regarding overall schedule and time for rounds) since that seems to be the only widespread piece of constructive criticism feedback (other than a bit about terrain)
Edit: The other thing I really like about this schedule is that the least number of players possible have a 4-game day... just the invitational players. It makes sense to minimize that for most players, and it keeps invitational players from having to juggle 2 lists. Win-win!
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Post by: Rickels
While I was unable to make it this year, I would just like to say watching it was a complete blast. Thanks to Mike/Dave for helping to get some non tau/eldar on the 11th company ustream.
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Post by: krootman.
You should have Stayed Sunday night, you missed a good time mang!
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Post by: ArbitorIan
 morgendonner wrote:quiestdeus wrote:I am curious to see what would actually happen if a major event dropped to something like 1500 points.
Just as a random continuation of that thought, when I was talking to Alex Harrison at some point over the course of the weekend he mentioned in UK they mainly play 1650 for GTs and that they found it doesn't really affect their lists but allows for games to be more timely and continue out to dice rolls.
Might be worth thinking about, I've never really toyed around with 1650 lists myself but if time is an issue and there's no wiggle room to expand rounds, the other main option is to cut back on points again. I don't think anybody missed playing 2000 points from last year.
I also will throw my support in with the group of other GT/Invitational players who would like to see the two events separated. I think Thursday night nobody would have had a problem getting in another game or two (maybe we could throw together a survey to find out for sure?) to avoid waking up at 6:30 am each day.
Again, this is me just being a little nitpicky / spitballing ideas because I had a blast. I think being able to drop the last two Open games was a good feature, as it was my only chance to catch up on a little sleep and also check out the awesome vendors.
I agree with the smaller points idea - I regularly play 1500 and 1750 in UK events, and find that it doesn't affect the tournament at all besides making games shorter. The game still works perfectly well all the way down to 1500.
However, a lot of people have been calling for 'separating the two events'. I disagree. There aren't two events - there are four events in the 40k bracket alone - GT, Invitational, Trios and Narrative. Of these, the Invitational is the least attended. If the tournaments were split like people intended, where do we fit the Narrative and Trios? Bunched up on Thursday as well?
There's also something to be said for having the Narrative and Trios as evening events - after three 'serious' games in the day, it's nice to be able to open a beer and play a silly game in the evening, and those last two events fulfill that nicely.
I agree with other suggestions in the thread that the Narrative / Trios be moved later - much if the reason I didn't play in a lot of the narrative games was that I was tired and wanted dinner - and I only had an hour to swap around armies, eat, rest and be back. I wouldn't have a problem with the evening events starting at 9 or 10pm...
I also agree with swapping Sunday around so that the last two invitational games come first and the last two GT ones second. No piont making 200 people wait around for 16 to finish...
52309
Post by: Breng77
 ArbitorIan wrote: morgendonner wrote:quiestdeus wrote:I am curious to see what would actually happen if a major event dropped to something like 1500 points.
Just as a random continuation of that thought, when I was talking to Alex Harrison at some point over the course of the weekend he mentioned in UK they mainly play 1650 for GTs and that they found it doesn't really affect their lists but allows for games to be more timely and continue out to dice rolls.
Might be worth thinking about, I've never really toyed around with 1650 lists myself but if time is an issue and there's no wiggle room to expand rounds, the other main option is to cut back on points again. I don't think anybody missed playing 2000 points from last year.
I also will throw my support in with the group of other GT/Invitational players who would like to see the two events separated. I think Thursday night nobody would have had a problem getting in another game or two (maybe we could throw together a survey to find out for sure?) to avoid waking up at 6:30 am each day.
Again, this is me just being a little nitpicky / spitballing ideas because I had a blast. I think being able to drop the last two Open games was a good feature, as it was my only chance to catch up on a little sleep and also check out the awesome vendors.
I agree with the smaller points idea - I regularly play 1500 and 1750 in UK events, and find that it doesn't affect the tournament at all besides making games shorter. The game still works perfectly well all the way down to 1500.
However, a lot of people have been calling for 'separating the two events'. I disagree. There aren't two events - there are four events in the 40k bracket alone - GT, Invitational, Trios and Narrative. Of these, the Invitational is the least attended. If the tournaments were split like people intended, where do we fit the Narrative and Trios? Bunched up on Thursday as well?
There's also something to be said for having the Narrative and Trios as evening events - after three 'serious' games in the day, it's nice to be able to open a beer and play a silly game in the evening, and those last two events fulfill that nicely.
I agree with other suggestions in the thread that the Narrative / Trios be moved later - much if the reason I didn't play in a lot of the narrative games was that I was tired and wanted dinner - and I only had an hour to swap around armies, eat, rest and be back. I wouldn't have a problem with the evening events starting at 9 or 10pm...
I also agree with swapping Sunday around so that the last two invitational games come first and the last two GT ones second. No piont making 200 people wait around for 16 to finish...
I think you do push those event forward. I might have come this year (money was part of the issue as was getting time off from work) if Most or all of the games were saturday and sunday. By putting 3 open games on Friday you make the event more expensive for most of the people.
For me it meant needing to take off both Thursday and Friday from work, also means another night in the hotel (instead of just Friday and Saturday as a minimum, we now need Thursday, Friday, Saturday), as was mentioned teachers cannot do the friday games in many cases.
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Post by: Nicorex
Well this was my first NOVA and I had a great time. I think Mike and the crew did a pretty damn good job.
It was nice to meet a number of Dakka personalities.
I personally did not have any issue with the time limit. All of my games but one had a natural finish either by tabeling or getting to turn 5+. But I was not near the top tables or any of the uber competitive lists.
Now I just have to get to work on a new army to take to NOVA 2014.
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Post by: Grimwulfe
Ok here is my opinion on NOVA and my experiences.
Game Length - 2.5 hours is sufficent for game length but an addition 15 minutes of setup time would be great. So call parings and start 15 min timer from there. The game on!!
Projector Display - I liked having the pairings up on it and also Torrent of Fire. It would be nice however to have a Game Timer Countdown displayed on it as well so people can easily look up and get time remaining.
Torrent of Fire - Awesome app for tourny day even with the minor hickup. No way I would ever pay for it though.
Schedule - I think the best solution for the schedule would be to do
Thurs - 2 Invitational games and Trios and Narritive (this adds 2 hours to day but makes for an easier schedule during other days) Also remember you cant please everyone. The con already starts on Thursday and I dont see this changing to many games to fit in 3 days. So I support Thursday start fully.
Fri - 1 Invitational 3 GT Open games then Trios.Narrative
Sat - 1 Invitational 3 GT Open games then Trios/Narrative
Sun - 1 Invitaional Final 2 Optional GT Open games then Awards Ceramoney
I think with this schedule it spreads out the games allows for people to do 3 events but takes away the long delay on Sunday awaiting the final. Also for Sunday with the invitational first it will keep Open players engaged for the ceramony.
As for Trios now that Bill S. and my team has won 3 times in a row we are stepping down to focus on the invitational and I have also volunteered to help with running the trios and making it a more fleshed out experience. I would like to see Theme, paitning, and other paths to glory included into this great event.
Other then that NOVA was a great time and a great GT one that I will not miss in the future.
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Post by: Malagant
There was a young man that won a bracket. Does anyone know which bracket he won, name, list, etc? I'm trying to use the info to motivate my son to play more and go to competitions with me!
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Post by: zedsdead
interesting ideas here.
At the BFS we also run the bracketing system and i have a question for people regarding the win path for the lower brackets.
Would players in the lower brackets have prefered a Battle Points win path over say the standard single elimination ? This way players in the brackets would continue playing even after a first game loss.
Not sure if this would be preferable for all brackets under the Gold (champion) bracket or just for those brackets say below (bronze).
And if a BP win path was prefered for lower brackets would it be a BP win path that included a paint score or just BP alone.... sort of wondering out loud here.
The truth is that any tournament with less than 256 really only needs 6-7 games total to follow the win/loss path properly so TO.s can add in things to keep people playing for 6-7 games such as having the Ren-man and (if you choose to add in) Overall BP winners be determined bt 6-7 games. However in win/loss once you need to go 8 games to determine bracket winners and the ren-man /bp win paths end at 6 games... those last 2 games become easy to drop out of.
For me i would prefer to keep the gamers interested enough to complete all of there games but that does become more of a challenge in a format that eliminates players from any sort of contention when they lose.
Ive always loved the win/loss path and use it in my GT so this is by no means a knock on the format..
Opinions ?
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Post by: MVBrandt
Ed - best suggestion was in someone's bat rep, and that's to have Bracket Ren Men, and Bracket Champs. Basically duplicate the parallel tracks for each sub-bracket. Then you get a lil BP in there, a lotta paint, and a lotta w/l.
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Post by: Breng77
Yeah, I would prefer a separate Ren-man for each bracket if you go that way. IMO, I am not a fan of battle points if you have a single undefeated winner. I typically view battle points as a means to break ties between people with the same record rather than a method to beat out others. So unless the idea is to make brackets larger (almost like mini RTTs.), I don't really like the battle points. I would be annoyed if say I beat a player in my first round, won the rest of my games, and got jumped because they blew out easier competition on the way back up.
Futhermore if you still do 3-3-2, and go battle points in lower brackets chances are that people that lost the first 2 games, could be out of it for the last 2 games anyway.
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Post by: zedsdead
MVBrandt wrote:Ed - best suggestion was in someone's bat rep, and that's to have Bracket Ren Men, and Bracket Champs. Basically duplicate the parallel tracks for each sub-bracket. Then you get a lil BP in there, a lotta paint, and a lotta w/l.
Ok missed that suggestion... thats not a bad idea.
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Post by: krootman.
Malagant wrote:There was a young man that won a bracket. Does anyone know which bracket he won, name, list, etc? I'm trying to use the info to motivate my son to play more and go to competitions with me!
His name is Zach he used necron tau, nice kid. I think he wont bracket 13. I played him round 3 I think? His list was a lord on ccb, 4 scythes, 3 barges, buff comander, rip tide, 10 kroot, and broadsides. Its a solid list.
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Post by: Malagant
Sounds exactly like Werner's list! If you know him, pass on my congratulations to him! Thanks for the info, Kroot!
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Post by: JGrand
At the BFS we also run the bracketing system and i have a question for people regarding the win path for the lower brackets.
Would players in the lower brackets have prefered a Battle Points win path over say the standard single elimination ? This way players in the brackets would continue playing even after a first game loss.
Not sure if this would be preferable for all brackets under the Gold (champion) bracket or just for those brackets say below (bronze).
And if a BP win path was prefered for lower brackets would it be a BP win path that included a paint score or just BP alone.... sort of wondering out loud here.
The truth is that any tournament with less than 256 really only needs 6-7 games total to follow the win/loss path properly so TO.s can add in things to keep people playing for 6-7 games such as having the Ren-man and (if you choose to add in) Overall BP winners be determined bt 6-7 games. However in win/loss once you need to go 8 games to determine bracket winners and the ren-man /bp win paths end at 6 games... those last 2 games become easy to drop out of.
For me i would prefer to keep the gamers interested enough to complete all of there games but that does become more of a challenge in a format that eliminates players from any sort of contention when they lose.
Ive always loved the win/loss path and use it in my GT so this is by no means a knock on the format..
Opinions ?
I honestly think that if anything, it should have LESS to do with battle points. Some of the missions are far easier than others to go 20-0 on. In addition, I think when a player loses matters more than anything else. For example, this past weekend, if you lost for the first time in game 4, it was actually far worse than losing your first game and winning the next three. It is easier (at least on paper) to drop game one and play the next three than to face the uphill climb of winning three in a row and losing game four. It is far more likely the 3-1 who lost game 1 has higher points. There should never be a benefit/potential to "strategically lose" games. The bracket winners should have to be 4-0 in their bracket. However, I do think a bracket Ren Man is a fantastic idea.
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Post by: morgendonner
Malagant wrote:Sounds exactly like Werner's list! If you know him, pass on my congratulations to him! Thanks for the info, Kroot!
Zach is actually from my FLGS so that's why his list is so similar to mine
In addition to me and Nick making top bracket our store I think won 3 brackets and had several other players in the finals for their brackets. Start 'em while they're young.
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Post by: yermom
Zach and Werner play in the same club and I believe Zacha list is an exact copy of werners. (Not to take anything away from him as he played really well given his age/experience)
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Post by: Thamor
Are the lists released anywhere?
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Looks like I'm the dumbass who left his army case in the hotel room. ArbitorIan almost might have been the last person to play against my Necrons.
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Post by: morgendonner
I'm not sure if they are, but if you're looking for anybody's in particular we probably have enough people on this thread to give you a pretty close idea to what was in who's list. Was there any player in particular you were wondering about?
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Post by: RiTides
Bummer SlowPoke :(. Maybe the hotel keeps a lost and found...
A local left his warmachine box in the gaming area but the organizers picked it up thankfully.
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Post by: Tomb King
I will be posting the list of everyone I faced in the invitational. That should give you some.
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Post by: MarkyMark
morgendonner wrote:quiestdeus wrote:I am curious to see what would actually happen if a major event dropped to something like 1500 points.
Just as a random continuation of that thought, when I was talking to Alex Harrison at some point over the course of the weekend he mentioned in UK they mainly play 1650 for GTs and that they found it doesn't really affect their lists but allows for games to be more timely and continue out to dice rolls.
Might be worth thinking about, I've never really toyed around with 1650 lists myself but if time is an issue and there's no wiggle room to expand rounds, the other main option is to cut back on points again. I don't think anybody missed playing 2000 points from last year.
I also will throw my support in with the group of other GT/Invitational players who would like to see the two events separated. I think Thursday night nobody would have had a problem getting in another game or two (maybe we could throw together a survey to find out for sure?) to avoid waking up at 6:30 am each day.
Again, this is me just being a little nitpicky / spitballing ideas because I had a blast. I think being able to drop the last two Open games was a good feature, as it was my only chance to catch up on a little sleep and also check out the awesome vendors.
Oh no we dont, the GT this year is 1650 which is the smallest so far, there has yet to be any quailfers played for the GT (first one is in October). They are trying it out for the first time to see how it works and the lists and timings are assumed to be the same.
To be honest even at 1650, slow players will be slow players, personnaly I have adapted to what I use and tournement timings and play accordingly even though I run a psyhic heavy army (trust me its a lorra lot of powers to roll for!) but I play against some people who spend 10 mins thinking about one move and another that decides to read my codex time and time again even though he read the same passage the game before!.
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Post by: Thamor
morgendonner wrote:
I'm not sure if they are, but if you're looking for anybody's in particular we probably have enough people on this thread to give you a pretty close idea to what was in who's list. Was there any player in particular you were wondering about?
I was interested to see what Tau builds made it to the top, especially the winners.
Thanks
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Post by: Phazael
Did you guys sort out the scoring mess that happened on the Fantasy side?
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Post by: MVBrandt
We're still looking into that. The board doesn't have any avid fantasy players, and we lean heavily on the leads. I think they figured it out, though. Definitely some QC to do on the fantasy side for 2014.
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Post by: RiTides
 Phazael wrote:Did you guys sort out the scoring mess that happened on the Fantasy side?
MVBrandt wrote:We're still looking into that. The board doesn't have any avid fantasy players, and we lean heavily on the leads. I think they figured it out, though. Definitely some QC to do on the fantasy side for 2014.
Ugh, the same happened at AdeptiCon for the fantasy event I attended in 2012 (scoring snafu :-/). It seems the largest GT organizers are mostly 40k-oriented, and the fantasy side is run by a different crew usually.
I think for myself if I was to pick a fantasy event it would be a fantasy-only smaller one... but for 40k it'd be something like AdeptiCon or Nova, hands-down!
Infinity is having a bit of a renaissance at my local store, though, so that's also an option for next year
*Note- I'd like to preemptively clarify that I did not type this post with a negative tone, just as an observation that at the major GTs I have been to, fantasy was not run by the main organizers and so is dependent on the specific person / crew leading it... just something to keep in mind!
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Post by: furbyballer
Phazael wrote:Did you guys sort out the scoring mess that happened on the Fantasy side?
The scoring mess on the fantasy side eventually got figured out. However, trying to change the scoring system, after the tournament was over, was a little bush league. I am glad that cooler heads prevailed and for the most part the scores remained pretty similar even with the changes. But, getting told 5 mins before the award ceremony was supposed to start that you had lost best over all by one point, when you had previously been told you had won was definitely a shocker.
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Post by: RiTides
Was it changed from the pre-tourney packet, if there was one? Seems like that would be out of bounds...
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Post by: frgsinwntr
RiTides wrote: Phazael wrote:Did you guys sort out the scoring mess that happened on the Fantasy side?
MVBrandt wrote:We're still looking into that. The board doesn't have any avid fantasy players, and we lean heavily on the leads. I think they figured it out, though. Definitely some QC to do on the fantasy side for 2014.
Ugh, the same happened at AdeptiCon for the fantasy event I attended in 2012 (scoring snafu :-/). It seems the largest GT organizers are mostly 40k-oriented, and the fantasy side is run by a different crew usually.
I think for myself if I was to pick a fantasy event it would be a fantasy-only smaller one... but for 40k it'd be something like AdeptiCon or Nova, hands-down!
Infinity is having a bit of a renaissance at my local store, though, so that's also an option for next year
*Note- I'd like to preemptively clarify that I did not type this post with a negative tone, just as an observation that at the major GTs I have been to, fantasy was not run by the main organizers and so is dependent on the specific person / crew leading it... just something to keep in mind!
colonial GT for fantasy easily made over 60 players last year... and there were some on the waiting list. In terms of fantasy events... its top noch
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Post by: furbyballer
RiTides wrote:Was it changed from the pre-tourney packet, if there was one? Seems like that would be out of bounds...
Yes it was changed from the players pack.
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Post by: Alpharius
Is there a summary of all the results somewhere?
I'd like to see what happened during the INFINITY tournaments...
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Post by: eltrain728
20774
Post by: pretre
He wants the INFINITY results. Those are the Open results.
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Post by: RiTides
Maybe there's a blog or the like? I'll ask the local Infinity players if they know anyone who went, since it's near here.
Despite rumors to the contrary, "app.torrentoffire.com" does not hold all the answers... even if you pay the monthly fee
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Post by: DaddyWarcrimes
 MasterSlowPoke wrote:Looks like I'm the dumbass who left his army case in the hotel room. ArbitorIan almost might have been the last person to play against my Necrons.
Call the hotel and ask. Decent hotels maintain a Lost and Found. If you're willing to give them a CC number over the phone, they'll probably be fine with shipping your army back to you. I've had to do just that when my wife left her Kindle Fire in a hotel room on vacation last year.
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Post by: RobPro
What was the Necron/Ork list running in the top 10? I scrolled through like 5 pages but didn't see any details.
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Post by: TehCheator
 RobPro wrote:What was the Necron/Ork list running in the top 10? I scrolled through like 5 pages but didn't see any details.
That list was on the top table for the last round. I don't know the list exactly, but from watching the stream it was roughly:
Destroyer Lord
Vargard Obyron
Mega-Armor Warboss
3x Min Warriors in Night Scythes
5 Meganobs in a Trukk
6 Wraiths
5-6 Scarabs
2x Annihilation Barge
3 Canoptek Spiders
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Post by: Chancetragedy
5 scarabs and the spyders had a prism. Edit: and 2 whips on the wraiths.
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
DaddyWarcrimes wrote: MasterSlowPoke wrote:Looks like I'm the dumbass who left his army case in the hotel room. ArbitorIan almost might have been the last person to play against my Necrons.
Call the hotel and ask. Decent hotels maintain a Lost and Found. If you're willing to give them a CC number over the phone, they'll probably be fine with shipping your army back to you. I've had to do just that when my wife left her Kindle Fire in a hotel room on vacation last year.
They had it and are shipping it back. Would have been awful as I probably had at 500 dollars worth of 2nd edition Necrons in that case.
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Post by: Alpharius
RiTides wrote:Maybe there's a blog or the like? I'll ask the local Infinity players if they know anyone who went, since it's near
Thanks - much appreciated!
I've tried searching around the net a bit but couldn't find anything.
I'm curious as to what lists did well, and won!, as there's certainly no real local scene and certainly no 'meta'!
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
@ MVBrandt.
I've been involved in several major (non 40K) conventions in the past, so I know that there will be a debriefing with you and your crew. My questions are more of the logistics in nature.
What was your total attendance for the entire event and its breakdown of players in various tournaments from last year? Was it overall more? or less? Are there more interest in other games besides 40K/WFB than last year? What was the turnout in those games.
I know you have other venues than just gaming, how well these go? Will there be more in the future?
Logistical Problems? Were they smoother than last year? Food and concessions. How were they and what changes would you make in the future? Hotel accommodations? Did it affect turn out due to pricing/ holiday weekend?
I hope you are going to adapt to those changes when the time comes -Adam.
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Post by: MVBrandt
 Adam LongWalker wrote:@ MVBrandt.
I've been involved in several major (non 40K) conventions in the past, so I know that there will be a debriefing with you and your crew. My questions are more of the logistics in nature.
What was your total attendance for the entire event and its breakdown of players in various tournaments from last year? Was it overall more? or less? Are there more interest in other games besides 40K/WFB than last year? What was the turnout in those games.
I know you have other venues than just gaming, how well these go? Will there be more in the future?
Logistical Problems? Were they smoother than last year? Food and concessions. How were they and what changes would you make in the future? Hotel accommodations? Did it affect turn out due to pricing/ holiday weekend?
I hope you are going to adapt to those changes when the time comes -Adam.
These are all questions being addressed by the exec board, bolstered by the impending annual survey. Overall, these things all registered in the "improvement" column, with some notable growing pains still experienced. I'm being told the overall foot traffic was a little over 700; I'm not calling that official until I'm back from vacation!
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Post by: Red Harvest
 Alpharius wrote:Is there a summary of all the results somewhere?
I'd like to see what happened during the INFINITY tournaments...
Here http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/16500-nova-open-2013-august-29th-september-1/page-5 The Excel® spreadsheet. For RL names see the most recent newsletter. Peruse the rest of the thread for links to batreps.
You're welcome.
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Post by: DevianID
I like the idea of separating the invite and the open to thurs and Friday for the invite and sat and sun for the open. The open still had to wake up at 630 on Sunday as it was, and then wait for the invite to finish for prizes, so making all 4 games on Sunday be nova open games makes sense.
Also, only the first 6 games counting for ren man I feel is a bad idea. Making those last two games pointless for 95% of the field as they are already out of the running for a bracket and didn't go undefeated in games 1 to 6 for ren man is a letdown. I also like the idea of ren man being per bracket for the same reason, because as it stands the ren man will almost always be someone who goes 6 wins in the first 6 games.
In terms of round timing, my main complaint there is the 2.5 hours for rounds often started as soon as pairing were announced it seemed. There was a large amount of time lost moving armies to other tables, generating pre game rolls, switching sides, ect. So 2.5 hours for a game may be ok, but as implemented it appeared to be much less time for the game by the time both players started turn 1.
All in all, loved the event and looking forward to next year.
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Post by: labmouse42
It was a great event.
One of the best experiences I had were the seminars. I wish I had more time in my schedule to attend more, as they were incredibly informative.
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Post by: Mannahnin
This was a great event and a great time. I really appreciated, and could easily see, the amount of work that went into organizing and running this sucker. Mike and the rest of the staff are clearly very ambitious to have an amazing weekend full of first-class events and look to be making strides every year. The main focus (understandably) is the Open and Invitational, but you could see that a good amount of passion and excitement wnt into the Narrative and Trios as well.
The hotel was excellent and is a great rate and location. Local food and drink was pricey but mostly delicious.
I thought the schedule had a good rationale; while I appreciated the greater separation of events while watching on UStream the last two years, it made sense this way as well to give the Open-only players shorter, less-exhausting days. I'm torn on whether to put the last two Open or Invitational games last on Sunday. With the Invitational games last, you can potentially make those more of a spectacle, and you give Open players who've traveled a long way a chance to start home early. This worked our for me and Alex (The Everliving), as we were driving from New England; so by dropping out of the last two rounds of the Invitational, we were able to get on the road ~2pm, and I got home around midnight. OTOH, if you put the Invitational games first, you give all the Open players a chance to sleep in on Sunday if they want to (or hit the vendors or seminars that morning) , and you make it more appealing for them to stick around for the awards/closing ceremony, as they don't have to sit around for several hours waiting for the Invitational to finish up. I think I lean slightly toward that latter approach, even though it would result in me getting home much later or laying another hotel night. (or possibly flying instead of driving).
As far as anything else constructive to say, I love that NOVA started experimenting with changing up the terain; unfortunately the alternate layout this year was just a bit too open, a problem exacerbated by the presense of powerful new armies which reliably ignored cover saves with their best and most powerful shooting units, which to some extent turned the middle three-four feet of the table into a shooting gallery where maneuver was largely irrelevant. It's amazing the difference one good LOS-blocker in the middle makes. The one game I had against Taudar with it, my bracket 4 semifinal, instead of being a slaughter was a 17/3 win for me at the end of turn 4; we rushed to squeeze in a 5th turn, which turned it to a 10/10 draw won by my opponent on VPs. A much closer-fought game.
All of my opponents were great folks; even the three Taudar guys. I had the pleasure of playing Jeremy Veyssaire in the first round of the open, and drinking with him later, and he' sa top-notch guy despite the teeth-kicking he gave my poor Chaos/Necrons on that darn alternate terrain setup + Hammer & Anvil. Clauss (from here on Dakka) gave me a 3/17 loss in round 2, but it was much more of a game, as he wasn't running Triptide with his Eldar, just one each of the big guys.
Many thanks to my opponents for nine fun games, including Dakka's own Tomb King; we had a heck of a game in our bracket; I felt good about the matchup against his IG/ SW, but after my bonehead mistake on turn 1 of giving him LOS to use Misfortune, I needed some luck to recover and keep control of the game, and Brett's Reserve dice gave me the break I needed.
Other really fun games included Steven with Sisters + IG, and Josh (?) running SW/ GK. Those guys both had really attractive and fluffy armies, as well as competitive ones which gave great games.
It was also, of course, seeing and drinking with so many great guys who I get to hang out with at these big events which really made it awesome. Seeing Ben Mohlie despite him being off at Business Schol, hanging out with Neil Gilstrap and going for gourmet pizza, chatting with Fareed and his son late at night over whiskey about 40k and life (not necessarily in that order), getting to meet and have a Chaos-off with James Watkins in the invitational. Thanking him, Mike Somerville, and Dave the painting judge for all the work they do. Seeing and drinking with Troy, Bill, James, Sam, Jared, and the other New England guys. Drinking on the patio late at night. Meeting Chancetragedy and other Dakka guys (Arbtorian, your army looked awesome! Sorry I didn't realize it was you and introduce myself!) . Seeing old friends from Dakka dn real life (Labmouse, Jin, Janthkin, Centurian99, etc.),; Bill; thanks for sharing the room with me! Kevin, you were a lifesaver with those earplugs! My heartfelt thanks to you both. The social side of this is half the joy. And it really is a joy.
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Post by: warboss
Thanks for the recap. Sounds like it was generally a great time to be had. I've never been to Nova but I certainly remember feeling tired from full days of gaming so I'd be thankful for a bit of a respite on the last day as well.
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Post by: Assertivepanda
I had a lot of fun this year, second year too, differently a lot more social stuff to do, the charity bar and the charity seminars were a blast, meet some really cool people and drank some great drinks. I had a lot of fun and hope to be back next year. I would even like to volunteer next year too. Also the bullet (resistant) vest is awesome.
58335
Post by: ontargetstudios
Thanks to the NOVA crew for another great tourny. I brought my sisters/ig and had an awesome time. I got to play Daemons, Eldar/Tau, Tau, Necrons/GK, CSM, and Eldar/DE so it was a nice spread for me. My game vs. Mannahnin was a blast (even though my poor sisters got the smackdown). I also did the team tourny which is always a great time. I am looking forward to next year!
25839
Post by: Kolath
Thank you for all the feedback on this year's Nova! I can assure that the board is already hard at work planning Nova 2014 (Including some really neat developments on the narrative side). Rest assured that we take any criticism very seriously and are already moving to address the Fantasy concerns for next year.
Keep the feedback coming, especially ideas for things that would make your experience even better.
Kolath,
Member of the board, Narrative Lead.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
Thank you for all the feedback on this year's Nova! I can assure that the board is already hard at work planning Nova 2014 (Including some really neat developments on the narrative side). Rest assured that we take any criticism very seriously and are already moving to address the Fantasy concerns for next year.
Cool.
Handicapping taudar?
6292
Post by: Valhallan42nd
 Pyriel- wrote:Thank you for all the feedback on this year's Nova! I can assure that the board is already hard at work planning Nova 2014 (Including some really neat developments on the narrative side). Rest assured that we take any criticism very seriously and are already moving to address the Fantasy concerns for next year.
Cool.
Handicapping taudar?
By the time the next Nova rolls around, there will be another FoTM army rolling taudar.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
 Valhallan42nd wrote: Pyriel- wrote:Thank you for all the feedback on this year's Nova! I can assure that the board is already hard at work planning Nova 2014 (Including some really neat developments on the narrative side). Rest assured that we take any criticism very seriously and are already moving to address the Fantasy concerns for next year.
Cool.
Handicapping taudar?
By the time the next Nova rolls around, there will be another FoTM army rolling taudar.
Dartau?
I´m so looking forward to 10 more years of utter eldar and tau dominance.
Thanks geedub, very competent of your "right attitude" dev team.
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