Even the warhammer fantasy crowd at my gaming club are generally massively negative to Warhammer Visions, with a lesser extent to WD: Weekly. And they're usually very, I guess sanguine, is the right word, about GW's hijinks.
I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you. GW has done nothing to deserve praise, and have actually done more to harm the community then good as of late.
We know they can do better, they just aren't trying or don't care. The worst thing you can do is encourage their lofty 'we can do no wrong' attitude.*
*It's probably why we are in this mess in the first place. Its okay to say something is crap
While I do not like what I am hearing about WV... if some folks think that it is worth the money for pretty pictures on a printed page... then more power to 'em.
If nothing else it may be something to hand to folks that want to know what can be done with those oddly shaped bits of metal and plastic that crowd your shelves.
I do expect this new magazine to be short lived, and I very much feel that the decision to convert White Dwarf subscriptions to a completely different freakin' type of magazine! was a terrible choice.
One that means that Warhammer Visions will not be judged on its own merits (or the lack thereof) but instead compared to the magazine that it is replacing.
They really should have just replaced the old White Dwarf with the new White Dwarf Weekly.
As it stands... I think that both magazines may have been doomed.
The Auld Grump
Well said - let's cut EoT some slack.
I know I will - the man correctly sniffed out a Bauhaus reference for cryin' out loud!
Different strokes and all that, but after viewing some of the unreal skills of some painters here on Dakka (jah-Joshua, Winterdyne to name a few) it's kind of hard to PAY for a step back in skill.
Perhaps they should change the name to Warhammer: Smokescreen?
AduroT wrote: Has anyone tried to cancel and get their subscriptions refunded yet?
Quite a few have said they are trying but not many (any?) seem to be having any luck. It looks like GW are saying go through Apple and Apple are saying go through GW.
God, is it wrong that I hope this ends in a lawsuit against GW? Lol. Think about it: Apple vs GW over who owes a lot of pissed off customers. Somebody grab the popcorn!
EYEofTERROR wrote: It is page after page of glamour shots of my favorite models painted to a very high standard featuring incredible displays and dioramas.
Which is fine... except that those models being available to look at for free on the internet already makes buying the magazine somewhat redundant, surely?
Just have to comment on that. The pictures in the Vision of the Slayer Sword winner are the first real close-ups of the piece I have found anywhere. Up till now, I felt it didn't deserve the sword. Looking at the pictures, the work on everything except the mask is amazing. Arron Lovejoy stopped posting pictures of his pieces to CMoN and he doesn't have closeups of any of his works on his painting service facebook page. Visions had four pages detailing his Avatar, which is ironic since it didn't win anything .
Also, webpages disappear. Knowing that you still have it sitting on your shelf if far more reassuring that hoping the image stays around on the web.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
Look back at the thread on the Dark Eldar release and see how Dakka reacts to a GW release that makes everything right (basically because the managers let someone like Jes do his job properly for once).
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
People on Dakka regularly praise GW for their minis which bar the odd, "WTF were you thinking?" model, are usually pretty good (though not everyone will like everything). However, nothing else they've done in recent years is deserving of praise.
I don't think most people are saying that paper magazines are rubbish.
They are saying that WH Vizsh is a rubbish magazine because the format, content and layouts are rubbish, and they all could have been done a lot better. Especially for the price.
It's not as bad as I was led to believe. Is it good? Not this issue. Too much stuff I'd already seen before. But I don't mind the format at all. It feels like a Japanese modeling magazine. They have a ton of mags just like this. All eye-candy. I don't mind eye-candy as long as it's tasty. And that's really the only problem I see with this particular issues is that there's too much stuff we've all seen before and it feels like page-filler. When it's stuff that I hadn't seen before I really enjoy looking at the photos. I COULD like this magazine. I think that there's a place for it, but I think that this was not a good first effort.
Dullspork wrote: So, I finally got a look at Warhammer: Visions.
It's not as bad as I was led to believe. Is it good? Not this issue. Too much stuff I'd already seen before. But I don't mind the format at all. It feels like a Japanese modeling magazine. They have a ton of mags just like this. All eye-candy. I don't mind eye-candy as long as it's tasty. And that's really the only problem I see with this particular issues is that there's too much stuff we've all seen before and it feels like page-filler. When it's stuff that I hadn't seen before I really enjoy looking at the photos. I COULD like this magazine. I think that there's a place for it, but I think that this was not a good first effort.
I agree, I find nothing objectionable to the concept of a "showcase" magazine. Not something that I'd pay £7.50 for, but equally not something I think is a bad idea per sé. I think it is just another one to file in the "good idea, poor execution" drawer, which is frankly overflowing from GW in the last year or so.
Every time we have a thread on WD it's full of people saying they're going to cancel their subscription but lo behold, there's still plenty of subscribers left to claim the same in the next thread. If you have a subscription at this moment, it means you willingly gave GW money for WD sometime within the last year. In advance, no less. You're part of the problem.
It depends on what you want from the mag. Up until this change I still looked forward to getting my issue in the mail each month. It was an enjoyable diversion, and had gaming, hobby and painting info along with actual battlereports and details. Now the mag my subscription has been switched to has nothing in it that made me subscribe in the first place. Thus the 'script gets canceled now. Just because you didn't like the mag before this change, doesn't mean others didn't or couldn't. I've been reading White Dwarf well nigh forever, and finally it is done for me. The only people who are part of the problem are those who are moaning loudly about this change on places like Dakka and not doing a thing about it like canceling their subscription. When I talked to them to get mine canceled the CS rep sounded kind of weary as if I was just one more in a long line of people canceling the magazine.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
It is hardly that simple. I am not canceling my script out of hate for GW. I am canceling it because they took the product I subscribed to and replaced it with a picture book with no actual gaming content anymore. The reason I am canceling is the exact same reason I don't subscribe to any other magazines that are just full of pretty pictures and zero substance either. I'd do the same thing if I was notified that my Military History mag was being replaced with a magazine called Military Visions that was just a bunch of pictures with none of the actual historical info I pay to read. I am done with White Dwarf since I can't get the weekly shipped to my mail box, and I refuse to make the trek to the nearest GW store only to find it isn't open yet again during the posted hours. It just is too far away to never actually be able to set foot into the store when I get there. Sad because this ends the monthly White Dwarf ritual I've had for close to 30 years...
The real question, I think, is not how many people are cancelling their subscriptions, but how many people are going to sign up for a new subscription? I can't see droves of people signing up to receive this publication. If you're targeting a younger crowd (20 and under), then you're targeting a group with the internet at their beck and call - the internet is their milieu, it is where they thrive. They are probably not going to pay for a pictorial that they can get on a handful of sites for free. So, scratch out that demographic. You're not targeting the gaming crowd - you said so yourself in your letter to disgruntled customers, so scratch that demographic out. So, that leaves veteran modelers/collectors. This demographic probably wants to see more than stock photography of studio models. But, to be fair, let's say that there is a small group of people that may like this pictorial.
So, in switching to this two-mag format, you've ostracized much of your fanbase, along with people who had given up on you some time ago, but still enjoyed keeping up with the hobby through your magazine. Now, you've told those people they must come in to the store to catch a glimpse of White Dwarf, something that may or may not appeal to them. If they didn't go into stores before (for any number of reasons), do you think a flimsy reimagining of White Dwarf is going to draw them in?
I imagine that there's enough people cancelling than otherwise by the autoreply email not saying. "Thanks for telling us you love, Warhammer Visions, keep an eye out for next months issue, where it'll be better and better."
puma713 wrote: Now, you've told those people they must come in to the store to catch a glimpse of White Dwarf, something that may or may not appeal to them. If they didn't go into stores before (for any number of reasons), do you think a flimsy reimagining of White Dwarf is going to draw them in?
Cracker-jack job of marketing there, GW.
The thing is though, you have touched on this rather well; GW thinks right now that the stores when managed well should increase sales. If you make the preferred mag the weekly one, you are trying to get the players to enter the store to get the magazine to increase a chance of further sales. From their viewpoint this is genius!
Unfortunately we tend to be lazy so going in weekly is irritating so no; no prescription = no magazines bought.
The added bonus of trying to buy a magazine with a desperate manager trying to up-sale would keep me away on principle.
The magazine will be less than it was, I really cannot justify (increased) cost to content so it is doomed. I had stopped buying the magazine back in November after being a loyal-get-every-issue-for-the-last-8-years. I must admit other than the odd rule article the old articles had great content... know any good searchable index for all WD magazines?
I just cannot understand it, they have systematically destroyed every avenue of dialogue with their fan-base/customers. The only thing saving them is the black library books that have preserved some measure cool imaginings of the 40k universe.
Every time we have a thread on WD it's full of people saying they're going to cancel their subscription but lo behold, there's still plenty of subscribers left to claim the same in the next thread. If you have a subscription at this moment, it means you willingly gave GW money for WD sometime within the last year. In advance, no less. You're part of the problem.
It depends on what you want from the mag. Up until this change I still looked forward to getting my issue in the mail each month. It was an enjoyable diversion, and had gaming, hobby and painting info along with actual battlereports and details. Now the mag my subscription has been switched to has nothing in it that made me subscribe in the first place. Thus the 'script gets canceled now. Just because you didn't like the mag before this change, doesn't mean others didn't or couldn't. I've been reading White Dwarf well nigh forever, and finally it is done for me. The only people who are part of the problem are those who are moaning loudly about this change on places like Dakka and not doing a thing about it like canceling their subscription. When I talked to them to get mine canceled the CS rep sounded kind of weary as if I was just one more in a long line of people canceling the magazine.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
It is hardly that simple. I am not canceling my script out of hate for GW. I am canceling it because they took the product I subscribed to and replaced it with a picture book with no actual gaming content anymore. The reason I am canceling is the exact same reason I don't subscribe to any other magazines that are just full of pretty pictures and zero substance either. I'd do the same thing if I was notified that my Military History mag was being replaced with a magazine called Military Visions that was just a bunch of pictures with none of the actual historical info I pay to read. I am done with White Dwarf since I can't get the weekly shipped to my mail box, and I refuse to make the trek to the nearest GW store only to find it isn't open yet again during the posted hours. It just is too far away to never actually be able to set foot into the store when I get there. Sad because this ends the monthly White Dwarf ritual I've had for close to 30 years...
Skriker
As for me - I cancelled my subscription once.
Ten years ago and more - and I have not bought a single issue at a news stand in all that time.
It was not a sudden 'Arrrggghhh! I hates the changes!' cancellation, just the slow realization that I was no longer getting anything out of reading the magazine.
And I had been reading White Dwarf since issue 1. (I still know how to calculate a Monster Mark....)
So, Warhammer Visions is not costing them any of my business - they had already lost me as a subscriber, and had done so years ago.
I agree with the idea that the new purpose of White Dwarf is to attract folks to their local GW store - but the truth is that an awful lot of folks will never see a GW store, let alone set foot in one.
The question are:
Will Warhammer Visions bring in more subscriptions than the old White Dwarf?
How about if we add the Warhammer Visions buyers with those that buy the new White Dwarf?
I... think that this is going to cost them more readers than it is going to gain them customers.
I really do miss the old Fat Dwarfs - Sawyer was about the best that White Dwarf had seen since becoming purely a house organ.
I... kind of wish that GW would spin White Dwarf over to FFG.
Ten years ago and more - and I have not bought a single issue at a news stand in all that time.
It was not a sudden 'Arrrggghhh! I hates the changes!' cancellation, just the slow realization that I was no longer getting anything out of reading the magazine.
And I had been reading White Dwarf since issue 1. (I still know how to calculate a Monster Mark....)
I... kind of wish that GW would spin White Dwarf over to FFG.
The Auld Grump
You've got me by about 14 or 15 issues on when you started reading White Dwarf. Talk about old timers. Hahahaha. Would be interesting to see FFG do White Dwarf...would be REALLY awesome to see FFG release a CD/DVD set of the first 300 issues of White Dwarf or some such, like TSR did with Dragon Magazine back in the 90s. Still enjoy trolling through those old issues of Dragon mag on my laptop and still find interesting tidbits to add to my games.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Has anyone tried to cancel and get their subscriptions refunded yet?
Been there and done that the day after I got the first Visions in the mail and already have the funds back in my paypal account.
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
You just compared medics, who save lives, to GW....
Kilkrazy wrote: I have thought for years that GW are not interested in veteran customers, they are interested in churning new recruits.
They gave up on that after switching everything to the one man destination stores in the middle of nowhere with no foot traffic format. I don't even they even know who they are selling to anymore.
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
You just compared medics, who save lives, to GW....
Kilkrazy wrote: I have thought for years that GW are not interested in veteran customers, they are interested in churning new recruits.
They gave up on that after switching everything to the one man destination stores in the middle of nowhere with no foot traffic format. I don't even they even know who they are selling to anymore.
I looked through a friend's WV mag, and even though I usually really like the studio models and dioramas, I was pretty disappointed. I'll try it again in 6-9 months or so. They've probably already written photographed the next 3 issues, and then I'll give them another 3-6 months to turn it around. If I'm still not impressed... then never again.
Just recieved my (well the BF's) subscription, I'm speechless ... gutted ... strong letter heading to the HQ (for all the good it will do!) It's like they want to loose business ... Crazy ...
Many thanks for your reply and we do apologise for the delay. Melissa Roberts who is the White Dwarf Digital editor & Paul Lyons are currently in contact with Apple and are working on a resolution as quickly as possible. We are now just waiting for a response from Apple regarding this issue and we should hopefully be able to resolve this for you soon.
We will reply to your original email once we have a resolution for you.
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
You just compared medics, who save lives, to GW....
.
So there are exceptions to your blanket statement, lumping everyone in with GW, that people shouldn't be praised for doing their job. I never mentioned GW at all.
Being in a leadership position for the last 14 years of my life, I've found that praise for doing the job required leads to people taking more pride and improving themselves and their efforts rather then just sticking to the bare minimum required. I've seen teams implode through apathy due to a lack of "You're doing it right, well done and keep that up" statements. Other peoples experiences may vary!
Many thanks for your reply and we do apologise for the delay. Melissa Roberts who is the White Dwarf Digital editor & Paul Lyons are currently in contact with Apple and are working on a resolution as quickly as possible. We are now just waiting for a response from Apple regarding this issue and we should hopefully be able to resolve this for you soon.
We will reply to your original email once we have a resolution for you.
We do apologise for the inconvenience caused.
Wonder if I was the only one to complain strongly
This sounds like one of the responses drummed up when you're being bombarded by requests/emails and you do not have a solution yet.
Graphite wrote: Wait, are we supposed to believe that nobody has ever cancelled their iPad sub before? Seems unlikely.
Probably more that there were hard and fast rules as to when you could/couldn't do that when it was a White Dwarf subscription, so it was a straight yes/no answer. With the change to Visions then people have a sound case to cancel outside of the usual restrictions, and that's likely where the issues derive from.
Graphite wrote: Wait, are we supposed to believe that nobody has ever cancelled their iPad sub before? Seems unlikely.
There is a difference in canceling your subscription because you don't want it anymore, but it's still the same product, and canceling your subscription because the product supplied is drastically different. This is the latter, which to me is a breach of contract on GWs end because they aren't supplying what was promised. As the contract is now void, the subscriber shouldn't have to pay for a product he didn't sign-up for.
Graphite wrote: Wait, are we supposed to believe that nobody has ever cancelled their iPad sub before? Seems unlikely.
There is a difference in canceling your subscription because you don't want it anymore, but it's still the same product, and canceling your subscription because the product supplied is drastically different. This is the latter, which to me is a breach of contract on GWs end because they aren't supplying what was promised. As the contract is now void, the subscriber shouldn't have to pay for a product he didn't sign-up for.
Agreed. If you're signed up for a Jelly of the Month club and they start sending you Peanut Butter, then I would say that it is the company's obligation to not only refund your remaining subscription, but do so in a timely manner.
Seriously guys, apple is really easy to deal with, when the marine codex dropped it didn't have the promised force requisition feature and I complained and got my $70 back (that was used with iTunes cards I got at 50% off)and got to keep the dex.
Ravenous D wrote: Seriously guys, apple is really easy to deal with, when the marine codex dropped it didn't have the promised force requisition feature and I complained and got my $70 back (that was used with iTunes cards I got at 50% off)and got to keep the dex.
Single items may work differently than subscriptions. Someone has to calculate the remaining value of the sub.
According to Defenestratus over at BOLS, Apple are looking into it due to a high number of complaints, so it'll be worth contacting Apple about it (using the claim that Visions isn't the same mag you subscribed to):
Defenestratus;392456 wrote:So my friend followed up his subscription denial and had an Apple support rep call him to talk about this issue. Apparently the rep told him that they've gotten so many cancellation requests for WD that they've opened an investigation into why so many people have been requesting cancellations by senior management. He said it would take some time, but likely he'd get refunded after talking to the manager in charge of looking into it.
Supposedly the guy he talked to knew what 40k was, knew what WD was, and was the 8th call he'd fielded since feb 1 about cancelling WD.
Also ironic that Apple is investigating why people are cancelling, something GW would never do.
Well Apple is getting shafted too aren't they? I'm sure they lose some sort of revenue stream when people cancel subscriptions (especially if they take the money, cut their piece off then send the rest to GW). I am not sure how it works, but as a distributor, they don't want to give their money back either. If it is one of their clients who has caused them such a headache, they probably want to find out why - and make sure it is not going to happen again in the future.
Just looked at the new mag yesterday in local GW. Even the staff member didn't try and talk to me about it even when I stood flicking through it which kind of speaks volumes about the reactions he has been getting.
What a load of rubbish. Bought Scars when I was in though which is, so far superb:-)
"Apparently the rep told him that they've gotten so many cancellation requests for WD that they've opened an investigation into why so many people have been requesting cancellations by senior management."
loki old fart wrote: Is this going to cause friction between apple and GW, IE so many complaints, please withdraw the products off our system.?
It's a mutually beneficial relationship, so if GW can convince them that they won't be pulling any more bait and switches, that would presumably be enough to convince Apple to keep doing business with them.
I popped into my local newsagent today, saw WHITE DWARF in big letters, picked it up and took it to the till, then realised it was visions, with a big 'from the people who brought you' banner on the front.
The shopkeeper told me I wasn't the first person to do the same and then not buy it, apparently he's seriously considering dropping it from his mag range
Talizvar wrote: Any hope this is like Coke vs new Coke then switch back to "classic" while changing the sugar for a cost savings?
No chance. The New Coke fiaso was not planned. They still sell "new" coke in many if not most markets. Coke actually thought they were giving the customers what they wanted. All their taste-testing research validate their decision to go forward. They never saw the backlash coming.
The new warhammer visions looks absolutely useless.... Old white dwarf was way better. This looks like its made for 10 year olds. Pretty much no text, and if there is its something stupid and simple....
Guys, I've figured out how to solve this problem! We simply get the weekly white dwarf and once all 4 have come out we sellotape them together at the spine! That way we have our "old" white dwarf thickness (almost) and the same content (kinda). The up pricing of it? Simple, we walk in wearing a top with a picture of Kirby's face on saying "Dream boy", boom, instant discount.
You're all welcome
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Apparently the rep told him that they've gotten so many cancellation requests for WD that they've opened an investigation into why so many people have been requesting cancellations by senior management."
Ouch. Maybe now GW will take a hint.
Doubtful, this is GW afterall, who take criticism poorly and react to poor sales by raising prices and attacking who they think the problem is.
Still can't believe in Kirbys report that he was "surprised there was a drop from independent stores" after they nuked online and cross border sales. Idiots.
Got the digital version last week.
Thoroughly disappointed I have to say.
I usually try and take an open stance with GW related stuff but can only echo the negativity and annoyance at this "publication".
I mean the pictures arent even frigging decent quality interms of style or a "wow" factor and the best painting in it is from the GD winners not GWs vaunted studio.
Talizvar wrote: Any hope this is like Coke vs new Coke then switch back to "classic" while changing the sugar for a cost savings?
No chance. The New Coke fiaso was not planned. They still sell "new" coke in many if not most markets. Coke actually thought they were giving the customers what they wanted. All their taste-testing research validate their decision to go forward. They never saw the backlash coming.
And in the US Coke had already switched to HFCS instead of sugar, before unveiling the New Coke.
But, yeah... they really were not prepared for what happened. (I gather that Microsoft was likewise caught off guard by the failures of both Vista and Windows 8 to grab the market....)
An engineer will tell you that innovation fails nine times out of ten - a biologist will tell you that engineers are optimists.
Talizvar wrote: Any hope this is like Coke vs new Coke then switch back to "classic" while changing the sugar for a cost savings?
No chance. The New Coke fiaso was not planned. They still sell "new" coke in many if not most markets. Coke actually thought they were giving the customers what they wanted. All their taste-testing research validate their decision to go forward. They never saw the backlash coming.
You are correct with the initial comment but my statement is true as well, please review:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/newcoke.asp But I still maintain this may very well be the same scenario: try something different, if it messes up it would still be an opportunity to increase sales in the end.
Talizvar wrote: Any hope this is like Coke vs new Coke then switch back to "classic" while changing the sugar for a cost savings?
No chance. The New Coke fiaso was not planned. They still sell "new" coke in many if not most markets. Coke actually thought they were giving the customers what they wanted. All their taste-testing research validate their decision to go forward. They never saw the backlash coming.
You are correct with the initial comment but my statement is true as well, please review:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/newcoke.asp But I still maintain this may very well be the same scenario: try something different, if it messes up it would still be an opportunity to increase sales in the end.
The last quote in that link with them being 'not that dumb, and not that smart' is what has stuck in my mind about the whole New Coke thing after seeing a documentary about it a number of years ago now.
Whether that line applies to GW and WV... I say you can draw your own conclusions on that. Nothing would surprise me greatly, but it does seem to me that, as others have said WV is simply going to be a placeholder mag that will see out what little production is needed for the subscriptions remaining, with WDW being their only print mag thereafter.
Though if that was the case why wouldn't they just switch the subscription over to WDW, or just refund them? Why go the bother of making a phoned-in mag to satisfy subscribers when there are better alternatives.
The only reason they could have done is is because they expected sales to be enough to provide a decent return on investment.
Tennants Lager wrote: Nothing would surprise me greatly, but it does seem to me that, as others have said WV is simply going to be a placeholder mag that will see out what little production is needed for the subscriptions remaining, with WDW being their only print mag thereafter.
No offense, but this just would be a really cludgy way to get to a point where they switch their monthly mag to a weekly. If their goal was a weekly just give every subscriber the weekly for half of their remaining 'script months and call it done and done. Why go to the trouble to create a new mag in a new format solely to kill subscriptions? Especially when you can *still* buy a subscription to it? How does that see out what subscriptions are remaining? If the goal is to do away with subscriptions why are they still for sale?
Also most people on subscription appear to be paying £9 a quarter or £3 per mag. This means they are either:
A. Losing money on subscriptions or
B. Ripping off non subscribers
hmmm
Where's the rip off.
I subscribe to SFX magazine, 2000AD and Wargames Illustrated. I save money compared to the retail price on all of those subs so White Dwarf/ Warhammer Visions are not unique in publishing.
I always thought sub discounts were a reward for being guaranteed income to a company. Retail price payers pay for my discount and postage charges.
And people say GW never offer discounts Of course it all depends on whether or not you thought WD was worth £3 let alone the retail price.
Ifurita wrote: I was disappointed. I'd like something more than a booklet of pictures. Some real articles would have been nice.
My sentiments exactly. Warhammer: Visions is not labeled correctly as a magazine, a magazine has articles and such. If you like this type of publication, more power to you, but for the price, I expect to get information, not just pretty pictures.
narkuk wrote: Just had a "reply" to my email regarding WH:V and WDW suffice to say it was mostly copy and paste - not sure what I was expecting.
I found this nugget:
"Perhaps contrary to first impressions, the vast majority of the material you see in Warhammer: Visions has not and will not appear anywhere else."
Apart from all the pictures that people have pointed out that have already been used in previous articles and codices. Anyway, there's only so many photos you can have of a figure before there's nothing new to see. There are far too many photos of the same figures in Warhammer Visions. Probably the result of dedicating an entire magazine to photos only of your latest stuff.
I think it just a mistake. That no one will want take the blame for and it will be chucked about endless meeting for months with no one making a decision on it.
We give GW too much strategy, good or bad, credit. Its just a further sign of poor management. People who don't understand their business can't run it. Western business practices have largely forgotten this in favor of management speak and other garbage.
I really enjoy Visions- genuinely. I am very looking forward to the next one...
...But. This is a big but. I don't think that means it's overall a good quality magazine by the standards of the majority. I think it appeals to a very narrow number of people. The reasons I really like it are peculiar to me-
I really hate having to look at screens for details, I infinitely prefer a hard copy.
I haven't looked extensively on the internet for Golden Demon winners and the like already.
I prefer the pictures to written articles in the long run, because I keep going back to the pictures to admire them or notice new details, whereas I wouldn't re-read an article in the same time period.
I enjoy looking at pretty pictures of the models as much as reading about details of them.
I wasn't subscribed to WD, so didn't get bait-and-switched.
They definitely need to not re-use photos, if only it hadn't included the stock tyranids as such a large part of it. The unique brown and mottled purple colour scheme at the back was cool, the same old Kraken/Leviathan/Behemoth ones were not.
The battle report either needs to be an actual battle report, or it needs to clear the feth out of the magazine.
It would be much improved by being A4, but no biggy.
If they just replaced the stock photos with more fan-painted or rarer 'Eavy Metal stuff, it would be much improved. Even mix in some of the artwork alongside the model photos. I think that if you want to buy pretty pictures of pretty models, Visions is better value than the artbooks they sell per page.
I can't imagine it lasting long, because it's a good quality magazine to a very narrow taste- and therefore a bad quality magazine to the majority. If it's your kind of thing, £60 for a year's subscription isn't so bad. It's about 2 and a bit pence per page.
narkuk wrote: Also most people on subscription appear to be paying £9 a quarter or £3 per mag. This means they are either:
A. Losing money on subscriptions or
B. Ripping off non subscribers
hmmm
Subscriptions for just about every magazine ever printed have usually offered a discount over the single issue cover price. That's part of the point of subscribing.
narkuk wrote: Also most people on subscription appear to be paying £9 a quarter or £3 per mag. This means they are either:
A. Losing money on subscriptions or
B. Ripping off non subscribers
hmmm
Subscriptions for just about every magazine ever printed have usually offered a discount over the single issue cover price. That's part of the point of subscribing.
Pretty much - there are exceptions (I subscribe to Military History Quarterly), but then there are some where the subscription drops the price by more than 50%.
The Auld Grump
*EDIT* National Geographic can have as much as 89% off for the digital edition....
When a publisher sells a copy through a shop, the shop and the distributor need to get a cut of the cover price. The actual publisher only gets maybe 50%-60% of the cover price. (I don't remember the standard discount.)
When the publisher sells the magazine directly he can keep all of the cover price, but he prefers to give a discount to encourage subscription sales because he gets the whole year's money up front and can still make a bigger profit per copy than by selling via distribution.
God In Action wrote: I really enjoy Visions- genuinely. I am very looking forward to the next one...
...But. This is a big but. I don't think that means it's overall a good quality magazine by the standards of the majority. I think it appeals to a very narrow number of people. The reasons I really like it are peculiar to me-
I really hate having to look at screens for details, I infinitely prefer a hard copy.
I haven't looked extensively on the internet for Golden Demon winners and the like already.
I prefer the pictures to written articles in the long run, because I keep going back to the pictures to admire them or notice new details, whereas I wouldn't re-read an article in the same time period.
I enjoy looking at pretty pictures of the models as much as reading about details of them.
I wasn't subscribed to WD, so didn't get bait-and-switched.
They definitely need to not re-use photos, if only it hadn't included the stock tyranids as such a large part of it. The unique brown and mottled purple colour scheme at the back was cool, the same old Kraken/Leviathan/Behemoth ones were not.
The battle report either needs to be an actual battle report, or it needs to clear the feth out of the magazine.
It would be much improved by being A4, but no biggy.
If they just replaced the stock photos with more fan-painted or rarer 'Eavy Metal stuff, it would be much improved. Even mix in some of the artwork alongside the model photos. I think that if you want to buy pretty pictures of pretty models, Visions is better value than the artbooks they sell per page.
I can't imagine it lasting long, because it's a good quality magazine to a very narrow taste- and therefore a bad quality magazine to the majority. If it's your kind of thing, £60 for a year's subscription isn't so bad. It's about 2 and a bit pence per page.
Tbh I don't even think its good for what it is. The size and layout choices are bizzare the patchy background being overlaid onto some model pictures is an awful idea the photos are reused and there are way too many photos of way too few models.. Even if I thought a magazine containing Just pictures of warhammer models was a good idea I wouldn't think this was good execution.
God In Action wrote: I really enjoy Visions- genuinely. I am very looking forward to the next one...
...But. This is a big but. I don't think that means it's overall a good quality magazine by the standards of the majority. I think it appeals to a very narrow number of people. The reasons I really like it are peculiar to me-
I really hate having to look at screens for details, I infinitely prefer a hard copy.
I haven't looked extensively on the internet for Golden Demon winners and the like already.
I prefer the pictures to written articles in the long run, because I keep going back to the pictures to admire them or notice new details, whereas I wouldn't re-read an article in the same time period.
I enjoy looking at pretty pictures of the models as much as reading about details of them.
I wasn't subscribed to WD, so didn't get bait-and-switched.
They definitely need to not re-use photos, if only it hadn't included the stock tyranids as such a large part of it. The unique brown and mottled purple colour scheme at the back was cool, the same old Kraken/Leviathan/Behemoth ones were not.
The battle report either needs to be an actual battle report, or it needs to clear the feth out of the magazine.
It would be much improved by being A4, but no biggy.
If they just replaced the stock photos with more fan-painted or rarer 'Eavy Metal stuff, it would be much improved. Even mix in some of the artwork alongside the model photos. I think that if you want to buy pretty pictures of pretty models, Visions is better value than the artbooks they sell per page.
I can't imagine it lasting long, because it's a good quality magazine to a very narrow taste- and therefore a bad quality magazine to the majority. If it's your kind of thing, £60 for a year's subscription isn't so bad. It's about 2 and a bit pence per page.
Tbh I don't even think its good for what it is. The size and layout choices are bizzare the patchy background being overlaid onto some model pictures is an awful idea the photos are reused and there are way too many photos of way too few models.. Even if I thought a magazine containing Just pictures of warhammer models was a good idea I wouldn't think this was good execution.
Yeah, the size is quite annoying, simply for the fact that it causes double spread photos to have the really annoying crease that you can't fold down (especially annoying if you like to keep such things in good condition and hate breaking spines). Agreed, I think they had too many photos of too few of the wrong models- mainly the reprinted tyranids. I would have liked more photos from different angles of the award winning models.
.
