Sorry for the delay. Due to my in-laws coming to town and staying with us, I took a little break from my 40K activities. But now they're gone and now I'm back.
Looks like this will be my last 6th Ed. battle report before the new edition comes out. Enjoy.
I'm quite excited to finally be able to play an O'vesastar run by a truly experienced general. Wait, I take that back. I'm quite excited to finally be able to play Justin. I actually don't really care what army he runs. To me, it's more about the player than about the army. The fact that Justin is bringing his GT-winning O'vesastar Tau is just a bonus. So a really good army run by a really good player....that is just what my Necrons needed. Perhaps Justin will finally be able to stop my Necron's winning streak against the Tau (so far, I haven't lost to them yet).
I've played against the O'vesastar twice. Both times it turned out to be Crushing Victories for my Necrons and my Daemons. Then again, both times, it was against players without the experience and probably the killer Tau instincts that Justin possesses. In any case, I actually feel that my Necrons match up well against the O'vesastar. That is because you need volume to kill off my wraiths. The O'vesastar has a large volume of AP2 shooting but it lacks the overall volume that would otherwise give my Necrons concern. If I have a subpar game and start failing my saves, then I think he can beat me. However, if I even have an average game, I think this will be a tough game for Justin. Then again, that's what I said when I went up against Eric Hoerger's White Scars and Tim Gorham's Centurionstar.
Thank goodness for no Misfortune, Hallucination and all that other psychic nonsense. Finally, it will be a dual between 2 very strong, non-psychic armies and that will make for a level playing field.
There are a number of factors in our game that does make this game in favor of Justin's Tau. Perhaps these factors will be great enough to swing the game around such that my Necrons will be the underdog:
1. Hammer & Anvil deployment. This is arguably the best deployment for the Tau. My night scythes don't really care, but my wraiths are going to have trouble trying to make it to Tau lines in 1 piece.
2. Tau is going 1st. While I normally would want to go 2nd in an objectives-based mission, against Tau - especially in H&A deployment - I would actually prefer to go 1st. That would most likely be 1 less Tau shooting phase I would have to endure.
3. Justin won the roll to place terrain first. That means I won't be able to place the LOS-blocking terrain where I want - in the middle of the table. That means that there will be no hiding.
4. While part of the mission is the Scouring (the other part being VP's), this is actually a disadvantage for my necrons. What?....you ask? That is because Adepticon's Scouring mission is really wonky. You have to win my 7+ objective points in order to win the Scouring! That is actually very hard to do. Meanwhile, my wraiths will be worth double-VP's in Purge the Alien and my opponent will be targeting them anyways. Thus, the Scouring is incredibly difficult to take and VP's favors Justin's Tau due to my wraiths being worth 2x the normal VP's.
Tau/Tau : (by Justin)
I wanted to offer up some thoughts going into this matchup. The deployment type is hammer and anvil, which generally favors tau with their long range units such as iontides and skyrays. The mission we're playing is interesting in that you need to hold at least 3 objective markers to score the one primary objective whilst you only need to win kill points by one in order obtain that primary. Fast attack units (wraiths) are also worth two kill points. Jim has last turn with necron flyers, which helps him score, but with the abnormal objective win criteria it'll be tough for him and essentially impossible for me to obtain that objective even though his wraiths are scoring. I'm going to focus on blowing out the killpoint margin as much as possible while keeping enough riptides alive to sit on objectives in the end game in order to win that way. The bastionsides will deploy in my deployment zone-this deployment style provides me optimal coverage of the table. Couple that with the fact that warscythes are the only real threat to the bastion itself and these guys will be pumping shots into wraiths all game. I'll probably dump both skyrays into the abarges turn 1-that might seem counter intuitive given the 4 scythes in Jims army, but I'll use the skyrays' markerlights later to make the broadsides and ovesa star to even the odds on the flyers. The sooner I eliminate the barges the sooner my deathstar can stubborn/shield up and tango with the wraiths. Not to say I 'want' to charge into combat, but it's an eventuality you have to confront so having a valid plan going in is really good.
I would 110% disagree with you. Although there would be more spammy options like spamming Riptides (because GW wants you to field whatever, not what actually might make sense in a war), the O'Vesa Star is still possible, and based on what your bonuses are for being battle forged, I would say that it could still be great.
I would 110% disagree with you. Although there would be more spammy options like spamming Riptides (because GW wants you to field whatever, not what actually might make sense in a war), the O'Vesa Star is still possible, and based on what your bonuses are for being battle forged, I would say that it could still be great.
One of the new rules is that independent characters cant join units that contain monstrous creatures. Its pretty sad because it killed off two of my armies (ovesa and spyder-star).
I am really looking forwards to this match. I had wanted to play against him at the LVO, but due to circumstances, we never got the opportunity. Well, finally we play each other for the very first time here at Adepticon. Now who am talking about? It's none other than Justin Cook, aka thanatos67 of Team Stomping Grounds.
Justin is a veteran of the competitive 40K scene for many years now. If you are a seasoned tournament player who goes to the larger tournaments (the GT's), then you've probably heard about him. He's been traveling around and going to tournaments ever since 2007 and participates in about 3-4 large GT's every year. But it wasn't until just last year when Justin started making a name for himself. That year, he won one of the most competitive GT's in the US - the Nova GT 2013 - with his O'vesastar Tau/Tau. Since then, his name has become like a household name in the 40K competitive scene. In any case, I am thrilled to finally get the opportunity to try to take down his Tau. This will be a true test for my Necrons.
1850 NECRONS
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs
5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
Adepticon uses only Primary and Secondary objectives. The Primary Objectives always consists of 2 missions. It's actually quite simple. If you get more Primary Objectives than your opponent, you earn a Crushing Victory. Otherwise, if the Primary is tied, then you go on to the Secondaries. The Secondaries consist of First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord. If you tie on the Primary and win via Secondaries, then it is a Minor Victory.
Primary Objectives:
1. Victory Points
2. Scouring - Fast Attack are scoring. However, if you kill a FA, then it counts as 2 VP's for Primary Objective #1 instead. 6 Objectives total. You must win by 7-pts worth of objectives or more.
Secondary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord
I'm quite excited to finally be able to play an O'vesastar run by a truly experienced general. Wait, I take that back. I'm quite excited to finally be able to play Justin. I actually don't really care what army he runs. To me, it's more about the player than about the army. The fact that Justin is bringing his GT-winning O'vesastar Tau is just a bonus. So a really good army run by a really good player....that is just what my Necrons needed. Perhaps Justin will finally be able to stop my Necron's winning streak against the Tau (so far, I haven't lost to them yet).
I've played against the O'vesastar twice. Both times it turned out to be Crushing Victories for my Necrons and my Daemons. Then again, both times, it was against players without the experience and probably the killer Tau instincts that Justin possesses. In any case, I actually feel that my Necrons match up well against the O'vesastar. That is because you need volume to kill off my wraiths. The O'vesastar has a large volume of AP2 shooting but it lacks the overall volume that would otherwise give my Necrons concern. If I have a subpar game and start failing my saves, then I think he can beat me. However, if I even have an average game, I think this will be a tough game for Justin. Then again, that's what I said when I went up against Eric Hoerger's White Scars and Tim Gorham's Centurionstar.
Thank goodness for no Misfortune, Hallucination and all that other psychic nonsense. Finally, it will be a dual between 2 very strong, non-psychic armies and that will make for a level playing field.
There are a number of factors in our game that does make this game in favor of Justin's Tau. Perhaps these factors will be great enough to swing the game around such that my Necrons will be the underdog:
1. Hammer & Anvil deployment. This is arguably the best deployment for the Tau. My night scythes don't really care, but my wraiths are going to have trouble trying to make it to Tau lines in 1 piece.
2. Tau is going 1st. While I normally would want to go 2nd in an objectives-based mission, against Tau - especially in H&A deployment - I would actually prefer to go 1st. That would most likely be 1 less Tau shooting phase I would have to endure.
3. Justin won the roll to place terrain first. That means I won't be able to place the LOS-blocking terrain where I want - in the middle of the table. That means that there will be no hiding.
4. While part of the mission is the Scouring (the other part being VP's), this is actually a disadvantage for my necrons. What?....you ask? That is because Adepticon's Scouring mission is really wonky. You have to win my 7+ objective points in order to win the Scouring! That is actually very hard to do. Meanwhile, my wraiths will be worth double-VP's in Purge the Alien and my opponent will be targeting them anyways. Thus, the Scouring is incredibly difficult to take and VP's favors Justin's Tau due to my wraiths being worth 2x the normal VP's.
Tau/Tau : (by Justin)
I wanted to offer up some thoughts going into this matchup. The deployment type is hammer and anvil, which generally favors tau with their long range units such as iontides and skyrays. The mission we're playing is interesting in that you need to hold at least 3 objective markers to score the one primary objective whilst you only need to win kill points by one in order obtain that primary. Fast attack units (wraiths) are also worth two kill points. Jim has last turn with necron flyers, which helps him score, but with the abnormal objective win criteria it'll be tough for him and essentially impossible for me to obtain that objective even though his wraiths are scoring. I'm going to focus on blowing out the killpoint margin as much as possible while keeping enough riptides alive to sit on objectives in the end game in order to win that way. The bastionsides will deploy in my deployment zone-this deployment style provides me optimal coverage of the table. Couple that with the fact that warscythes are the only real threat to the bastion itself and these guys will be pumping shots into wraiths all game. I'll probably dump both skyrays into the abarges turn 1-that might seem counter intuitive given the 4 scythes in Jims army, but I'll use the skyrays' markerlights later to make the broadsides and ovesa star to even the odds on the flyers. The sooner I eliminate the barges the sooner my deathstar can stubborn/shield up and tango with the wraiths. Not to say I 'want' to charge into combat, but it's an eventuality you have to confront so having a valid plan going in is really good.
Tau deployment. All of Justin's troops will start off in Reserves, with the kroots walking on and the suits deepstriking.
Broadsides in the bastion. They're going to be a problem not easily solved for me.
I deploy my wraiths and annihilation barges, making sure to spread out my wraiths.
The deployment of my barges will probably be my biggest gamble in this game. I am hoping to hit his Burstide (Riptide w/Heavy Burst Cannon) to the left with all 3 barges. I am betting that AV13 will survive S9 with Tank Hunter and Ignore Cover.
Overview of our deployment.
By the ways, Justin won the roll to place terrain first. He then took the largest LOS-blocking terrain away from me, putting it deep inside his deployment zone and thus denying my wraiths any place to hide while advancing.
Minimal movement for Tau. I believe the Burstide suffers 1W from a failed nova but the 2 Iontides successfully novas. Toolbox Commander goes with Tank Hunter, twin-linked and ignore cover for his powers (assume anytime my opponent fires at a tank, he uses those powers).
The results is deadly. First Blood goes to the Tau.
VP's - Necrons: 0, Tau: 1
Actually, so does Second Blood.
VP's - Necrons: 0, Tau: 2
The rest of Justin's shooting puts 1W on 1 wraith.
It turns out to be an excellent turn of shooting for the Tau.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Run, wraiths, run!
Tau 2
Spoiler:
Justin tries to force mishaps for his deepstriking troops. 1 scatters outside of his kroots and the other lands directly.
The 3rd solo-suit mishaps and I place him within range of my wraiths.
Tau movement.
2nd failed nova for the Burstide?
The O'vesastar scoots back. cowards....
Shooting is devastating. I started off outside the range of his broadsides. I am now in their range. The result is 4 dead wraiths.
Don't quite remember how O'vesa took a wound, but he does.
The Tau take out my Warlord due to some failed Look-Out-Sirs!
He would stay down.
VP's - Necrons: 0, Tau: 3
Tau movement in the Assault phase.
Man, another painful turn for the Crons.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
All 4 of my flyers come in. The O'vesastar has moved out of their threat range so I go after the Burstide (which was what I was planning to do all along anyways).
Wraiths advance once again, but because Justin has been pulling back with his riptides, it'll take me another turn to reach them. That means that I would have to endure 3 turns of shooting from the Tau. See why I hate playing against Tau in Hammer & Anvil while going 2nd now?
I believe my flyers cause 1-2W on the Burstide. Fortunately for me, 1 unit of wraiths make it into combat with him.
1 riptide down. 2 more to go.
VP's - Necrons: 1, Tau: 3
Overall, not a great turn for my Crons. Shooting was abysmal. Also, I was hoping to kill his riptide next turn and not in this turn.
Tau 3
Spoiler:
The unit of 3 suits come in. Again my opponent tries to mishap them in the hopes of sending them back into reserves but again, they scatter into safety. The O'vesastar advances.
The Tau kills off the lone wraith with a split-firing broadside.
VP's - Necrons: 1, Tau: 5
He wipes out 3 wraiths from this unit but isn't able to finish off the last one.
More bad news for the crons as I just cannot make a save. I lose another 3 wraiths and my D-lord in this unit....and once again, my D-lord fails to get back up.
VP's - Necrons: 1, Tau: 6
Smelling blood, this time, the O'vesastar advances in the Assault phase instead of retreating.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging. I go after both his scoring units and his easy VP's.
Before....
....and afterwards.
I take out 3 of his troops.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Tau: 6
Lone wraith survives Overwatch from the broadsides to make the assault against the skyray. Unfortunately, I whiff completely and manage only to take off 1 HP.
Wraiths make the assault against the solo-suit. However, I lose 1 to Overwatch.
Not only do I fail to cause a wound, but the suit actually wins combat! At least I'm still stuck in combat.
Overall, a good turn for my Crons, though it could have been better if only I could have taken down one of his skyrays as well.
Tau 4
Spoiler:
The Tau takes down 1 of my flyers (I believe with his broadsides), though for the life of me, I don't know how my lone wraith with only 1W remaining survived.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Tau: 7
Actually, make that 2 flyers downed.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Tau: 8
Finally, my 3rd flyer survives with just 1HP remaining.
Farsight decides to chill and take it easy, lying down for his daily tan.
Finally, I finish off the suit in combat.
VP's - Necrons: 5, Tau: 8
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Troops walk on and hides by my objective.
I don't have a whole lot of options left. Wraith will go after the either the skyray or the lone suit....not that he's going to survive Overwatch or anything.
My other wraith advances. He's going to die anyways. The trick is force the O'vesastar to go back after him instead of going forwards.
As expected, my wraith does not survive Overwatch from the broadsides.
VP's - Necrons: 5, Tau: 10
Tau 5
Spoiler:
This will be the last turn due to the organizers needing to use our table.
BAM!
Lone wraith....KABOOM!
No one takes the Scouring. The O'vesastar easily takes Purge the Alien. My opponent also gets First Blood and Warlord.
Man, another painful game (everytime I lose, it's painful....hahahaha....ouch. ). Usually, a good indicator that I'm not going to do very well is when neither of my Lords get back up even once. Then again, this is my very first loss against the Tau and it is against a very, very good player so I can't complain much. Justin played it just as I expected - meticulously and flawlessly. He truly deserved the win. I did make a mistake by deploying my AB's together, but honestly, I probably would have lost them anyways even had I spread them out. Despite the beating, it was an enjoyable loss and I would love to play against Justin again in the future.
Congrats Justin, and thank you all for taking the time to read this and for your patience as well. See you at the next tourney!
herpguy wrote: Not fun to lose against boring shooty armies.
How do you think this list will do in 7th? I don't think they should really be changed.
Well Jim's list isn't illegal, unlike mine, in 7th. So that helps . Seriously though I'm really excited about how this edition is going to shake up the metagame. I think deathstars are going to start waning out of the top tier as people realize they can stuff 20 objective secured units into a list and just win by being on the table. I've built some silly lists today, and need to test them-but I think I'm going to like this edition just as much as I liked 6th, maybe even more.
Yeah it does seem like the meta can get quite ridiculous now that battle forged armies really aren't that restrictive. I'm just interested to see if TOs do any restrictions, since now you can literally ally with anyone without many issues.
Imperial deathstars are going to be insane now though. There are just too many combos. A 25 point priest can make so many things unkillable with rerolling saves.
Yea basically.... that power may force me to sit out 7th and just paint/watch.... That and multiple detachments.
Tesla seems to be a nice answer to invisibility.
Which is why Necrons will still be strong.
Now the only problem are the invisible, re-rollable deathstars (here's looking at you, seer council). Those units need to be restricted/nerfed in tournament play. They are practically invincible.
Yeah, but it was an enjoyable loss. I've got no problems with losing as long as we still had fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
herpguy wrote: Not fun to lose against boring shooty armies.
How do you think this list will do in 7th? I don't think they should really be changed.
Necrons have actually gotten stronger in 7th, especially wraithwing and flyer-spam Necrons. Here is why:
1. Vehicles have gotten harder to kill. Thus, necron flyers and AB's have gotten better.
2. 4+ jink saves for our skimmers/flyers. The snap-shooting afterwards won't really affect our teslas.
3. We haven't lost any of our mobility advantage. In addition, we can drop off troops onto objectives and still have them score it despite the presence of enemy units nearby (the non-bounded troop ones). You think your riptide/wraithknight is scoring/contesting? I don't think so (after I drop my troops off on it).
4. Necrons are still incredibly balanced and that is still the formula for a successful army in tournament play (assuming tournaments will have restrictions instead of going to Apoc levels).
5. Psychic powers have become more unreliable. Yes, our psychic defense still sucks, but at least currently, it will be harder for the opponents to cast all of the psychic powers that they want and they will be more likely to Peril. So while we still have a weakness against psychic powers, at least our opponents can't cast them as reliably as they used to be able to.
6. F*ck Misfortune and screw you to a lot of the other nasty psychic powers. The powers that used to hurt us the most (Misfortune, Hallucination, Terrify) have been nerfed heavily. Invisibility may be bad, but it isn't as bad for Necrons as it will be for other armies due to our Teslas.
herpguy wrote: Not fun to lose against boring shooty armies.
How do you think this list will do in 7th? I don't think they should really be changed.
Well Jim's list isn't illegal, unlike mine, in 7th. So that helps . Seriously though I'm really excited about how this edition is going to shake up the metagame. I think deathstars are going to start waning out of the top tier as people realize they can stuff 20 objective secured units into a list and just win by being on the table. I've built some silly lists today, and need to test them-but I think I'm going to like this edition just as much as I liked 6th, maybe even more.
The seer council with jetbike or wave serpent troops will still be a nasty build to play against. Beaststar will still be strong. Basically, the psychic deathstars with mobility will still be very strong. Otherwise, I agree that Battle-forged armies with lots of troops will be the way to go.
IG has gotten extremely nasty in this edition. They just may be the new top dogs.
You can make other ridiculous builds like 8 dakka flyrants and 8x10 termagants (at 2K) in an unrestricted Battle-forged list!
herpguy wrote: Yeah it does seem like the meta can get quite ridiculous now that battle forged armies really aren't that restrictive. I'm just interested to see if TOs do any restrictions, since now you can literally ally with anyone without many issues.
Imperial deathstars are going to be insane now though. There are just too many combos. A 25 point priest can make so many things unkillable with rerolling saves.
Trust me, they will.
Even Battle-forged armies can get pretty ridiculous without limits.
Reece and the Frontline guys are going to put restrictions in their tournaments. Others will follow suit. Apoc-style games just doesn't work in competitive play.
Yeah, I think Necrons did definitely get flat out better this edition. I always loved CCBs and I think that they will be making a comeback after getting very buffed with the new rules. Also like you said being able to place undeniable troops anywhere makes Crons reaaaalllyy good.
I really am interested to see what Reecius and the Frontline crew come up with. This is a way bigger and more complicated issue than before.
Before Be'Lakor was only really worth it in a flying circus in my opinion, but now I think he will be a permanent fixture in any Daemons/CSM army. Not only is invisibility possibly the best psychic power in the game now (and rolling for it isn't a good way for anybody else to build a tactic around it) but now with Jink being 4+ Be'Lakor can get a 2+ cover save anywhere, even on open ground, and never has to worry about getting shot on the ground (which is how he always died).
Speaking of which, I just ran Be'lakor/Fateweaver/LoC Daemons/CSM against Geoff InControl's tyranids. This was my Soul of Loc-N-Load list against Tyranids with the Harridan. It's basically my existing 6th Ed. list and wasn't tailored for 7E (i.e. I wasn't doing heavy Daemon summoning or stacking up on my psychic dice). I was still generating up to 18 warp charge dice compared to 11 for my opponent.
Anyways, that wasn't the point. The point was that I charged a 2++ Be'lakor into a tervigon....and he (Be'lakor) got punked before he even swung to hit! Of course Be'lakor was only down to 1W left, but still....
Also, the combos can get quite ridiculous. I had Fatey with 2++ re-rollable, Be'lakor with 2+ cover and an Invisible LoC with re-rollable saves and 4+ FNP.
jy2 wrote: Speaking of which, I just ran Be'lakor/Fateweaver/LoC Daemons/CSM against Geoff InControl's tyranids. This was my Soul of Loc-N-Load list against Tyranids with the Harridan. It's basically my existing 6th Ed. list and wasn't tailored for 7E (i.e. I wasn't doing heavy Daemon summoning or stacking up on my psychic dice). I was still generating up to 18 warp charge dice compared to 11 for my opponent.
Anyways, that wasn't the point. The point was that I charged a 2++ Be'lakor into a tervigon....and he (Be'lakor) got punked before he even swung to hit! Of course Be'lakor was only down to 1W left, but still....
Also, the combos can get quite ridiculous. I had Fatey with 2++ re-rollable, Be'lakor with 2+ cover and an Invisible LoC with re-rollable saves and 4+ FNP.
All examples why the game is officially a joke to take seriously.6th left this game dangling from a strand to call fair or strategic in any impressive sense. 7th cut that string, let the game fall into the gutter and get pissed on by a stray dog. Any system that has abusive, readily available combos for some and not the rest is crap.
Just look at how badly some armies were invalidated by the last few months. DE, Orks, Sisters, now you can shelf tau without taking allies that discredit the background. 7th made these armies garbage while making good armies better. Necrons didn't need a buff. Imperial armies didn't need a blanket buff. Eldar and demons really didn't need a bag full of buffs.
Hey buddy whats the problem your nids can't crack transports well? Just take tau allies.... People cried about it, and look it happened. It also made the game stupid by its own barometer. there is no justification for tyranic war vets to be field-able along nids, yet its possible. Same with Grey Knights and demons.
Still a good hobby. Great models, good game for themed reenactments of your favorite battles in the fluff. Still a good casual play game. But even trying to put this game on a pedestal by referring to it as tactical or strategic is hilariously futile.
. The apocalypse is HERE, sir!
cowards....
