Although, what is interesting is that the cop is pleading innocent to manslaughter, because he says it was an accident. I thought that was the entire point of manslaughter, when the killing is accidental. if I kill someone, I still go to jail, even if it was an accident. I just go to jail for less time than for murder.
Another resisting arrest altercation that goes badly for the resister. This sure is one crappy situation though - probably needs to be cameras in the back of those police vans. You can't have unsupervised criminals just hanging out back there.
Another resisting arrest altercation that goes badly for the resister. This sure is one crappy situation though - probably needs to be cameras in the back of those police vans. You can't have unsupervised criminals just hanging out back there.
Maybe you can tell us how he was resisting arrest? The article states that he saw the cops, ran from the cops, was caught by the cops (tackled, but that's normal when bringing down a running person), and then was arrested without further incident. He was not tased, and the cops even report that he didn't put up a struggle or fight.
Another resisting arrest altercation that goes badly for the resister. This sure is one crappy situation though - probably needs to be cameras in the back of those police vans. You can't have unsupervised criminals just hanging out back there.
Maybe you can tell us how he was resisting arrest? The article states that he saw the cops, ran from the cops, was caught by the cops (tackled, but that's normal when bringing down a running person), and then was arrested without further incident. He was not tased, and the cops even report that he didn't put up a struggle or fight.
I'm pretty sure running counts as resisting arrest.
I'm pretty sure running counts as resisting arrest.
Only if the police are trying to arrest you *before* you start to run. The events described in the article indicate that the dead guy ran away as soon as he saw the cops, and that the cops (seeing a dude suddenly turn around and run away after seeing them) suspected he was up to something and pursued. He was arrested for having a knife, not resisting arrest and having a knife. And the cops didn't know he had the knife until after they caught him.
It's agianst the law in Baltimore to have a knife over a certain size. The dead guy's family's attorney is claiming the knife was under the legal limit, the cops disagree.
It's agianst the law in Baltimore to have a knife over a certain size. The dead guy's family's attorney is claiming the knife was under the legal limit, the cops disagree.
whembly wrote: That it's illegal to have a knife at a certain length in Baltimore.
It's laws like these that adds to increased "confrontation" between citizens and po-po.
I was arrested in Texas, fresh out of highschool for having a hunting knife that was over 6" long, charged with Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon, which was dropped by the DA because it was in my tackle box in the back of my truck. Spent the night in jail for that one. So yeah that law exists in a lot of places. (I was a foolish kid who thought I was just doing what I was supposed to do and consented to him searching my vehicle, this was all he found. And before it's said, I learned my lesson.)
What was special about this knife was it was a "spring assist" opening knife, which is classified in Baltimore as a "switch blade", which is illegal, and it was over the legal limit. I have a knife made by SOG, called the Triton II, that is also a spring assist, in case you are wanting to google what one might look like.
Yeah it was in with my fishing tackle in the bed of my truck, he didnt care (which is the big reason the DA dropped the charge, because of where it was found). Basically the State Trooper that pulled me over saw me leaving a part of town that was apparently known as a "high traffic drug area" at around 11:30 at night, when I really just went that way as a shortcut to get home from the movies. After half of the local PD force and a K9 searched my truck he asked if the knife was mine, I said yes, and on went the cuffs.
So "leaving the general vicinity of the cops, when they have not even spoken to you and you have committed no crime." Is now resisting arrest?
No crime was committed, no report of a crime in the area had been committed, the cops did not stop or attempt to talk to the victim. The general "gist" was they were rolling through an area known to have drug deals and when a black man "left quickly" when he saw police, they assumed he must have broken the law and chased him down and beat him for no reason. And once caught he did not struggle one bit.
Of course the officers refuse to disclose why they thought he should be arrested. The "knife" isn't that he had a knife, but that he was "wearing it to be visible" which is illegal. They claim the "visual" part was it has a clip on the handle, like a pen, and that part was clipped on the pocket so the clip was technically visible outside his pocket, hence illegal. Now he wasn't arrested or chased because of that issue, but that is what he was being charged with when they found no drugs or other weapons and it proved they had no justification to stop him let alone arrest him.
Remember, beating you forces you to "resist" so even the most unlawful stop with no crime committed then becomes about resisting and not about why the police stopped you with no reasonable suspicion. It is how they cover up a bad arrest.
This is local for me and getting a lot of press. Police in Baltimore are corrupt. (all of Baltimore pretty much) if I see them on the street in Baltimore, I walk the other way too as they have a reputation for instigating confrontations to justify illegal searches and arrests. (I have had my car illegally searched in Baltimore on an illegal stop, illegal right turn on red when driving on a highway with no lights.) DC is much better in comparison in that respect.
One of the reasons why I never go back to MD. DC and Baltimore can slide into the Bay for all I care....might replenish the Blue Claws...not a bad idea
This is because under Mayor oMalley (who became gov and now wants to be president) they basically instituted "zero tolerance policing" which is where an arrest was the first resort, not the last resort. During his mayorship they had 100,000 arrests per year for a city which has 620,000 citizens.
Basically "all" of Baltimore is considered high crime, so they can and do stop anyone with zero probable cause because simply being in Baltimore is probable cause for being in a high crime area based upon the Supreme Court. So over arrest makes it a high crime area, then you can legally stop anyone for any reason to fit the supreme court ruling.
There are some real issues which are local politic issues which stem back to a politician trying to make a run at presidency, and want to claim "I cleaned up the streets!" I blame O'Malley for the issues in Baltimore.
(We had to pass a law that politicians found guilty of crimes have to step down as you are technically not 'convicted' until sentencing and we had politicians who had been found guilty of crimes relating to their office refusing to step down because they had not technically been convicted yet. Yay MD)
whembly wrote: That it's illegal to have a knife at a certain length in Baltimore.
It's laws like these that adds to increased "confrontation" between citizens and po-po.
I was arrested in Texas, fresh out of highschool for having a hunting knife that was over 6" long, charged with Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon, which was dropped by the DA because it was in my tackle box in the back of my truck. Spent the night in jail for that one. So yeah that law exists in a lot of places. (I was a foolish kid who thought I was just doing what I was supposed to do and consented to him searching my vehicle, this was all he found. And before it's said, I learned my lesson.)
What was special about this knife was it was a "spring assist" opening knife, which is classified in Baltimore as a "switch blade", which is illegal, and it was over the legal limit. I have a knife made by SOG, called the Triton II, that is also a spring assist, in case you are wanting to google what one might look like.
Jihadin wrote: Wait? I thought he died later on from injuries that remains unexplained. Who killed him?
No one knows 'when' injuries caused his death happened or what caused them. He was beaten pretty severely before loaded into the van. But inside the van, if you take a crippled, injured person and drive in such a way where he is not secured, he may have been critically injured in the van. And then the delay of medical response and neglect at the precinct might have turned his injuries into worse than they were.
That is why no one knows, because the police who arrested and beat him won't talk, the police who drove him in the van won't talk, the police who took custody of him at the precinct won't talk. And if no one can prove where the injuries which killed him occurred, and each officer can blame the others, they all get reasonable doubt by being silent.
I am not sure I expect a transparent investigation out of Baltimore... but we will see.
Just the 'after' part. Which is part of the problem. He had lots of injuries but everyone involved has no idea how they happened.
"I know that when Mr. Gray was placed inside that van, he was able to talk and he was upset," Baltimore Deputy Police Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez said during news conference Monday. "And when Mr. Gray was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe."
The one officer refusing to give a statement was 'not' the arresting officer which points to one of the Van officers. Apparently the Van made '3 stops' and didn't go directly to the precinct. All evidence seems to point to the spine injury happening in the van. Supposedly they pulled over because Gray was 'Irate' where upon he was subdued by putting leg irons on... (or beating him to death)
Funny thing is, the official police report says Gray was taken into custody "without force or incident" so even the officers claim he wasn't resisting arrest.
So all the people who are saying 'Don't resist, Don't commit crimes', Gray didn't do either... He was simply in a high crime neighborhood.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: At the very least, turning and running from a policeman would be probable cause.
Its not probable cause, but it does initiate "reasonable suspicion", when other factors are considered, and allows the officers to initiate a "Terry Stop".
It has the makings to be 10x worse than Ferguson... o.O
Just came to post something similar. Seems crazy and I'm getting a lot of Twitter and news alerts about the protests. Just watched a video of some news reporter getting robbed on camera. Pretty surreal.
It has the makings to be 10x worse than Ferguson... o.O
Just came to post something similar. Seems crazy and I'm getting a lot of Twitter and news alerts about the protests. Just watched a video of some news reporter getting robbed on camera. Pretty surreal.
It is not acceptable for a suspect to incur injuries while inside a police vehicle, which is where I'm sure this man was hurt. In this case I am sure some investigation will uncover police misconduct. Spines don't just break on their own.
I cannot believe the Mayor of Baltimore said to give them space so they can destroy
Well, the mayor basically has two choices:
1. Advise people to move away and let them burn themselves out.
2. Send in the police and/or Maryland Guard and watch the whole thing explode.
Given some of the larger gangs in Baltimore are in there right now, option 2 ends in lots of dead people and even more angry people than you had before.
Basically it's like building a fire line. An area where these idiots can do all the damage they want without loss of human life. It's certainly not a great choice, and I don't envy the Mayor having to make it.
Yep, it is getting bad here now... There are groups who are 'organizing violence' which can end up being really dangerous, if impressionable youths are used as pawns.
While most protests are peaceful and violence is usually isolated anarchists, this time it feels different. I know the Mayor is claiming outsiders... which might be true, but this is one of the major differences between DC and Baltimore in our dual city metro area.
Locally, people who live in Baltimore and work 'elsewhere' are basically being urged to not go home and just stay away if they can.
Screw that. I'd get home and lock and load, or if you're ayankee I guess get the bat out.
You gotta remember, a lot of people live in Baltimore and work in DC or vice versa. So the act of getting 'home' is kinda dangerous right now.
Also, MD has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation and least rights in justified force... So there is a good chance you legally can't 'go home and lock and load' in DC or Baltimore depending on your situation.
Basically, you know where the violence is, and you know how traffic is... If you can avoid dealing with either of it, you are better off right now until they get it under control.
Screw that. I'd get home and lock and load, or if you're ayankee I guess get the bat out.
You gotta remember, a lot of people live in Baltimore and work in DC or vice versa. So the act of getting 'home' is kinda dangerous right now.
Why? This is a question. I only saw a headline.
There are organized violence targeting police right now... And traffic is a super mess right now. And it is expected to get worse over night. So driving into the middle of it if you can avoid it is recommended. Or at least until after rush hour/police clean up.
Basically like with any major event: "Staying where you are is better than driving into the middle of it, especially if there is huge traffic delays"
whembly wrote: As someone who lived 10 minutes away from Ferguson...
Stay safe dude!
I am not that close to it But we have an office in Baltimore and a lot of my Co-Workers live in Baltimore and commute to our office. So the company is basically trying to keep employees safe and giving staff information. They are opening up telework options and other options for those who are impacted by this. But in this area, DC/Baltimore are like conjoined twins, what happens in one impacts the other, and a ton of people live in one city and commute to the other daily so it is becoming an overall issue. I suspect Suburbs will be relatively safe for now.
I will say my plans to attend some Os games right now are suspended until further notice Os are already giving refunds for some season ticket holders and vouchers for other people.
Frazzled wrote: If the police are being targeted they should respond in kind. Put the shields down and rack the pumps. I thought it was just hooligans at a mall.
There are some organized social media campaigns, and my friend who is a DC cop says there are some 'credible threats' which are being followed up on.
The problem is, often the people instigating violence and the bodies who will hit the floor are not the same people as many of the instigators use peaceful people as a shield, or sometimes the young and impressionable get caught up in it. So I am not supportive of mowing protesters down with shotguns or any other solutions. It would be awful if it came to that. I know Dakka has a lot of people out for blood with popcorn waiting from what people say in the Middle east threads as they casually toss around Genocide as a viable solution, but I don't wish that on these people. I would rather see property damage over dead protesters any day.
Frazzled wrote: Seven cops with one unresponsive, thats not property damage.
And yet, you can't chain-gun down hundreds of people to stop a few violent protesters... This isn't the Hunger Games.
The police are taking steps to protect themselves and the population without turning to mass executions like suggested by some. It is a hard situation with no easy solution.
Os game has been cancelled, Most of the Inner Harbor is closed as they have reports that it will be targeted tonight. The people moving from the Northwest to the center of the city. They are basically destroying stores and looting cash right now. (CVS burning, and a bodega with someone throwing ATM cash into the crowd)
Police are basically blocking off roads and containing opposed to directly confronting. The show of numbers does seem to be working in warding off violence between the police and looters.
The sad part was the funeral today was super peaceful and this morning, it looked like it would be a good day.
Expectations is that National Guard may be activated, Other surrounding counties police forces are being brought in... (not sure that is a good thing, I think I would trust national guard as a third party right now and so might looters)
I am super curious why and how PG county police were in Baltimore... That doesn't seem normal 'pre-escallation'. I hope we don't find out some out-of-area police decided to play vigilante and got in over their heads. Something isn't adding up with how PG county police were at the source of the violence and the victims of injuries.
For those who don't know the area... GREEN is where the officers who were hurt are from. The violence happened in the NW area of the baltimore square.
"They arrested a guy, there is zero evidence that he resisted, there is evidence that he was beat, and he died from injuries that he mysteriously suffered while in custody."
"Yeah, but as you can see in this picture, he was an donkey-cave. So sure he may have been murdered by the police, but it's not like they murdered a good guy. They murdered a scumbag. So no real harm done."
Why hold the police accountable when you can just whitewash the whole thing with "at least they only killed a scumbag".
As always seems to be the case the only thing being whitewashed is this guy's criminal past.
What does his past have to do with any of this? Is it in any way or shape relevant to his death?
Please feel free to explain what exactly the point was of you posting this, because at this point it just appears that you are part of the "at least they only killed a scumbag" crowd.
I just saw more videos of the mab throwing rocks at the police. o.O
And the gangs haven't come out yet... Where's the national guard?
Automatically Appended Next Post: UPDATE: MD Gov does indeed declares state of emergency and is deploying NG.
They have been stacking up military vehicles at the parking lots near the stadiums near the inner harbor for hours, so this was expected.
I wish this was done before there was a massive influx of outsider police into the city... I dunno, it doesn't seem appropriate for police forces to just russel up a posse and ride into jurisdictions 50 miles outside their juresdiction. I know some of it was organized, but I hope we found out how some of this escalation went down.
Also, apparently the source of a lot of the violence was from a single high school. It was reported 300 kids from one high school formed a mob, left school and went to loot and riot. This was reported by a state senator, so I am unsure how she got the information. Scary if true because it makes things complicated when you basically have children acting out with violence. Makes it hard for parents to step in and control their kids when it happens at school.
Edit: A lot of "Please go get your damn kids" going on for the Baltimore Highschools. There are a lot of kids out of control and adults trying to salvage their community. :(
Medium of Death wrote: He has previous so it is different if this was just some random guy pulled off the street for doing nothing.
Then subsequently making a martyr of him that gives the rest of this scum apparent license to go out and riot.
It doesn't matter if the guy was Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy. The use of force laws are very specific, and this LEO is on video clearly "misapplying force," which is the boot-licker way of saying he fething murdered someone.
If they give this cop the needle, I'll say that's 2 counts of making the world a better place.
Medium of Death wrote: He has previous so it is different if this was just some random guy pulled off the street for doing nothing.
Then subsequently making a martyr of him that gives the rest of this scum apparent license to go out and riot.
It doesn't matter if the guy was Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy. The use of force laws are very specific, and this LEO is on video clearly "misapplying force," which is the boot-licker way of saying he fething murdered someone.
If they give this cop the needle, I'll say that's 2 counts of making the world a better place.
I'm still anti-death penalty, but I agree with Nuggz on the rest. And it's always a scary day when we agree on stuff.
Medium of Death wrote: He has previous so it is different if this was just some random guy pulled off the street for doing nothing.
Then subsequently making a martyr of him that gives the rest of this scum apparent license to go out and riot.
It doesn't matter if the guy was Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy. The use of force laws are very specific, and this LEO is on video clearly "misapplying force," which is the boot-licker way of saying he fething murdered someone.
If they give this cop the needle, I'll say that's 2 counts of making the world a better place.
I'm still anti-death penalty, but I agree with Nuggz on the rest. And it's always a scary day when we agree on stuff.
Medium of Death wrote: He has previous so it is different if this was just some random guy pulled off the street for doing nothing.
Then subsequently making a martyr of him that gives the rest of this scum apparent license to go out and riot.
It doesn't matter if the guy was Mother Theresa or Ted Bundy. The use of force laws are very specific, and this LEO is on video clearly "misapplying force," which is the boot-licker way of saying he fething murdered someone.
If they give this cop the needle, I'll say that's 2 counts of making the world a better place.
I'm still anti-death penalty, but I agree with Nuggz on the rest. And it's always a scary day when we agree on stuff.
Throw me in with both of ya... I'm in agreement.
Never thought I'd see the day!!
Also want to add that we should be very careful about drawing parallels between this incident and Ferguson. The question in Ferguson was whether or not Brown presented a threat to the officer. In this case, there's video evidence showing that he posed zero threat to that officer. A reasonable person can look at this and see that is a huge difference.
Am I saying that the Police officer shouldn't be charged with murder?
I'm just point out that this guy wasn't a saint and now this is going to add the whole "cops hate blacks" nonsense despite it being a pretty rare occurrence considering how large your country is and how many police officers you have.
Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
I'll also say that even if they killed Mother Theresa, it also doesn't justify violence and rioting in retaliation. Unless we want to see if any of the shop owners didn't pay their taxes or if they kicked kittens, which would make it less bad I guess.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and three wrongs don't make a right (although three rights makes a left, but I digress). Rioting isn't right, the police killing an unarmed man isn't right and that doesn't make the riots right, and a lifetime in drug dealing isn't right and it doesn't make the killing right.
Medium of Death wrote: Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
Medium of Death wrote: Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
This is starting to look a LOT like trolling.
Think a majority of the debates on Dakka concerning this is Caucasian on Black.....
Medium of Death wrote: Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
This is starting to look a LOT like trolling.
It's not trolling.
There is more media focus on cases like this.
It's picked up by race baiters into forcing the myth of Black oppression.
Even your President likes to fan the flames.
"If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon"
Has a white President ever said anything like that?
I'm sure the National Guard are not happy to be going in Baltimore to separate LEO's and teens. I avoid Baltimore like a plague. Even with safety within the city limits of Baltimore I run away from Baltimore with a herd of Zombies after me....on crutches.....blind....
Shep just mention Freddie was taking off his bike. Do believe his injury was from that take down.
Was wondering who bike that was to the left of Freddie and the LEO
Medium of Death wrote: Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
This is starting to look a LOT like trolling.
It's not trolling.
There is more media focus on cases like this.
It's picked up by race baiters into forcing the myth of Black oppression.
Even your President likes to fan the flames.
"If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon"
Has a white President ever said anything like that?
So much for the "post racial" President.
Your a good guy in my view point there Medium but ease up on this line thought.
It is hard to be 'post-racial' with people that post things like you have been, unless you are trolling of course, but as you pointed out that isn't the case.
Medium of Death wrote: Meanwhile more Blacks murder Whites and nothing gets anywhere near close to the coverage it does when a thug gets brutalised by a vicious cop.
This is starting to look a LOT like trolling.
It's not trolling.
There is more media focus on cases like this.
It's picked up by race baiters into forcing the myth of Black oppression.
Even your President likes to fan the flames.
"If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon"
Has a white President ever said anything like that?
So much for the "post racial" President.
Sorry to say, Medium of Death, but you come a cross as an ignorant racist, right now, and I am not sure that is where you wanted to be heading. TURN AROUND!
Oppression of black americans has never been a myth, nor will it become one just because some douches say otherwise. That is not even something to discuss anymore. If you were so oblivious to reality and historical facts, you might as well talk about the "myth of the holocaust" and hold hands with David Irving. (And no, this is not (yet) touching Godwin's law but, yes, I would be happy if it would cut stupid rants. )
And the US (or most other countries for that matter) are far away from being post-racism. Just because western societies tend to move away from slowed thinking (and whether that is really the case is still a subject for argument) does not mean that it vanishes over night or over the course of some 10-20 years.
You got one thing right, however: The media coverage on cop violence is higher than on criminal violence. And you know what? That is exactly the way it should be!
Because police has the legal monopoly on the use of force, they need to be held against a much higher standard than a criminal.
Murder is always terrible. But murder by someone we need to be able to trust for our society to function, is much worse. Yes, a racist cop killing some random guy for petty gak is MUCH worse than a cop killer who did so in fear of his life. That is not being apologetic to murdering people. But there is not just one "bad" and circumstances matter.
TULSA, Okla. — Secret recordings have been released involving a lawsuit with Robert Bates and an insurance company he used to own.
Bates talked openly about his work with the department during a conversation over drinks in 2012.
Our sister station, Fox 23 in Tulsa obtained the recording from federal court.
In it, Bates suggests he’s used his position with the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office to his advantage, saying, in part, “He knows I’ve done some (expletive) for him at the sheriff’s office, for some of his clients,” when explaining why he had not paid a certain attorney.
The Ninth Judicial Circuit Solicitor's Office announced Monday a Charleston County grand jury has indicted Michael Slager on murder in the shooting death of Walter Scott.
Solicitor Scarlett Wilson made the announcement during an 11 a.m. news conference at the Charleston County Solicitor's Office. Wilson said the grand jury returned the murder indictment against Slager Monday morning.
Murder was the only charge presented to the grand jury to consider for an indictment, Wilson said. The charge carries a sentence of 30 years to life in prison without parole.
A trial date has not yet been set.
Despite outside pressure to remove Wilson from the case, the solicitor said she will not be stepping aside from what will be her first murder case against an officer, and is confident Slager will get a fair trial in Charleston County.
Attorneys and the family of Scott spoke after the news conference, saying the indictment is only the first step. Attorney Chris Stewart said a civil suit will be filed in the next few months.
Scott's brother, Rodney, said the family is happy with the murder indictment.
Video captures North Charleston cop shooting Scott in the back
Authorities say Scott was shot and killed by Slager on April 4 after fleeing from his vehicle during a traffic stop that took place on Remount Road in North Charleston.
At the time of the shooting, Slager, 33, was a Patrolman First Class with the North Charleston Police Department.
Reports state Slager claimed he shot Scott because he feared for his life following a physical altercation with the 50-year-old man, who was reportedly unarmed.
Video shot by a bystander surfaced in the days following Scott's death. The cell phone video showed Slager shooting Scott in the back as he ran from the officer.
Officials say the video evidence led to Slager's arrest and murder charge. He was initially placed on administrative leave while the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division investigated the shooting.
Slager, who was fired from the department following his arrest, is being held in protective custody at the Charleston County Detention Center.
Here's the key part... the DA is only bringing murder charges.
Usually, they throw a bunch of lessor charges (ie, manslaughter, etc...) to ensure some sort of conviction.
Although, the trial judge or defendent could request a lessor charge... not sure what's the mechanic of that, or why would the judge/defendent would do so in this case.
would he be arrested for having a knife?
But we have an office in Baltimore and a lot of my Co-Workers live in Baltimore and commute to our office. So the company is basically trying to keep employees safe and giving staff information. They are opening up telework options and other options for those who are impacted by this. But in this area, 
