You guys seriously can complain about anything huh? It's like a frigging super power.
But no, really - we get it. You want your stuff back?
Easy fix.
....
Play Space Marines.
XD
But all joking aside, yeah it sucks to be you - look, whatever princess. Don't act like you Chaos fans have been the only victims of Codex Gouging.
Tau waited how long for a decent book? Tyranids are still waiting for something that isn't trash?
The Ork codex smells like Hot Garbage? Where did the other half of the Grey Knight book go? At least Blood Angels are still a good assault army right? Oh, and I think I heard Sisters of Battle are getting an update!
All of this complaining, this is the kind of stuff that is bad for the community as a whole. Everyone keep in mind these are supplements, NOT the codex! I would expect that we will see a chaos codex if not before the end of the year then probably early next year. And they have been doing a lot of things in phases. i used to be really down about GW to but I have to say this new President and general attitude is a step inthe right direction. I mean either way our CSM armies are more playable then they where before now.
YES other armies are still better but we will need a codex fix to solve that problem. For the love of god stop all the complaining, some of those formations are decent, And some crazy combos! The grass is ALWAYS going to be greener on the other side! Their are a lot of other armies in the game that have fallen behind the "top tier" armies. I mean we can't all be taudar.... but if we could all point and shoot the game would be super boring! Just stop the complaining! and either enjoy playing your army or for the love of god play another one, or another game. but I can promise you that you will find that any game you go to some armies are better then others. i get chaos is not in a good place and hasn't been for quite a while, but you DO have options! Just stop bitching!
Go out and play some of theses formations, I mean actually play them! i have played three experimental games with the rules printed out to just test them, and what you can do is actually decent. YES there are still some shortcomings, lack of mobility being one, But take the Cyclopia Cabal on bikes, yes expensive, but I have made them make up their points in ONE round of forcing a friends Stormserge's open up on his army. Combine that with Bikes and Flesh hounds from the KDK book and that is a very fast army that can scout, get melta and contend Psycic dice with any army in the game. are their better? yes! but again the grass is always greener on the other side! A solid Chaos codex or hell even CSM in one of the( i believe) two more War zone Fenris books and the whole conversation is turned on it 's head! BE patent, things ARE changing at GW! Give them time to fix the years of bad leadership from their former brass! And for god sake quit complaining about everything! Hell i even saw complaints about the "choose your traitor legion chart! what ELSE can you possibly complain about! it was put out for fun as mucha s the Space marine one was! So either play the game we all love or don't, but as far as i am concerned if all you want to do is complain, find another hobby! Because its cancer for this one and I want to enjoy mine.
*Steps off soap box!*
There is no new Chaos codex until middle of next year, according to the most reliable rumor sources.
Besides, I really think this whole, "shut-up, enjoy what little you do have/L2P" typically comes from those who only jumped into Chaos *after* the great gutting of the entire faction...
When all you've known is crap, it's a lot easier to stay positive that eventually, the future will be brighter.
However, if you were around for the 3.5ed codex, despite its balance issues and a few stand-outs that made no sense, (ie: why no Khornate Havocs loaded with flamers/meltas?), it's only natural to be a jaded, hate-filled, embittered veteran.
People forget, or never even knew about how we actually had literally everything that Loyalists marines now have.
And then, because of both constant complaining from the Loyalist fan base, and JJ deciding that Legion rules and the Books of Chaos were too much for his 6 year old son to handle, it was all stripped away.
Yet then, less than a year later, Loyalists get handed those very same exact rules that were so callously stripped from us. And then to top it all off, they get a bunch of carbon copy wargear/options that we had, yet lost, because they were deemed to be too OP/game-breaking.
And the only thing we've had ever since, has been to endure both the constant middle finger from GW, to Loyalist players always whining the second we do get anything remotely capable of going toe-to-toe with their toys. (case in point, Hellturkies still make you TFG/WaaC's, Daemon Summoning ruined 40k, Oblits & Plaguemarines are OP, spell Familiars & Lv3 Sorcs are Librarians +10, etc...)
It's been 10+ years of neglect and hypocrisy from the largest faction in 40k. We're sick of it. And just saying, "shut-up/L2P, no more complaining, be positive instead & enjoy your polished turd with sprinkles" is even more grating on the nerves of long time Chaos fans.
Look im not saying its all rainbows and sunshine, I started playing in fifth jm not to long before the chaos codex came out for 6th ed. But lets face it that old 3.5 dex made little to no sense to me as a chaos player, i mean some of that stuff was just silly!
is the current Codex good? god no! maybe the only Codex that is worse is Sisters, I cant think of another off the top of my head. and then only arguable since they can ally. But so can we! KDK are not bad! they aren't the most broken thing out there but they add alot to us, and so do Daemons! Do we have as many options as Marines? No, are we behind the curve YES but if we just sit and complain about it ON and ON and ON! what does it serve? We as Chaos players have options! I don't think i ever said learn to play... thats insulting its not about player skill, not about being "good", and more about having a positive attitude. We are polaying with little plastic army men for godsakes! lets try to enjoy it!
I am well aware of Decurion, i also have a marines army. and a Necrons army, and Space wolves and random other stuff to add to those forces, as well as Daemons and KDK.
new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
Frankly, if you got ambushed by CSM players lamenting the state of their faction in a CSM thread, the fault doesn't lie with the CSM players.
Plus, CSM players have nothing in Sisters players.
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
Frankly, if you got ambushed by CSM players lamenting the state of their faction in a CSM thread, the fault doesn't lie with the CSM players.
Plus, CSM players have nothing in Sisters players.
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
Right, be happy you get to wait yet another entire year, (rumors say mid 2017), when it's already been 10+ years and counting.
Even Dark Elder didn't get this kind of neglect...
And that's assuming a lot on GW's end, especially when everything to date has been mostly terrible. (Raptors are literally, the only solid infantry kit, with Hellbrutes & Dinobots being the only keepable vehicle kits)
You may not like your codex updates, supplements, or new models that you've been getting, but the fact remains that you got them. Half-hearted, copy/paste rules, ugly sculpts, doesn't fething matter, it's still better than getting literally nothing for 10+ years.
You may not like your codex updates, supplements, or new models that you've been getting, but the fact remains that you got them. Half-hearted, copy/paste rules, ugly sculpts, doesn't fething matter, it's still better than getting literally nothing for 10+ years.
I'd rather have nothing. The last 10 years of CSM releases have been nothing but bitter disappointment, and a hate magnet for loyalist SM players who cannot understand that an ap3 flamer does not a top tier army make.
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
Played a 1500 point game with the Tormented Detachment and sorcerer conclave and got tabled by footdar. Only nice thing was my daemon prince doing most of the work. Possessed are unplayable and when you compare them to Wulfen they lack everything. The frustration is real.
I have been playing chaos since 2nd ed and I stopped complaining after 5th edition. I just started fielding my chaos warbands using loyalist rules.
I mean all that really matters at this point is the fluff and aesthetic. You can field a better khorne army then khorne ever could using space wolves, a better thousand sons army using grey knights etc etc Iron hands for iron warriors, raven guard for night lords, dark angels for word bearers.
Seriously, they have made so many fething units at this point that the distinction is comically narrow and pontless. I mean in 5th you had summoned demons and oblits and even the demon prince, now centurions are an exact analog to oblits, imperials can summon demons and smash bane McShield eternal on a bike has the same stats as a fething demon prince. Hell even mutalators have an exact analog in assault centurions lol.
I am not saying more rules aren't fun or welcome, but if your having issues just pick up that other power armor codex.
Other then the crappy dinobots, someone name a unit that chaos has that can't be represented using imperial units. That list is silly small if existent at all.
But then again I am an original dark eldar player, so I had to learn to cope during a 12 year wait. At least chaos got decent models during that period
Nocturnus wrote: I really wish Chaos' rules would reflect the background, seeing as it's the "biggest threat" to the Imperium. While it's nice the revised books, Black Legion/Crimson Slaughter, are cheaper now, they don't really do anything to make the army more competitive. Oh well, maybe next year we'll get a proper codex.
You are. Chaos Deamons is top tier codex that wrecks gak.
Seeing that this thread is about CSM....
Daemons aren't top tier, they're middle of the pack at best.
Nah, gotta agree that Daemons are top tier, though definitely like Necrons, they're the low end of the top tier. Our tricks are too predictable now, and the realm gems of Eldar/Marines/Tau have enough toys to readily deal with them.
Outside of running a top end filth list though? Daemons drop off pretty quickly, especially if you don't go summoning happy.
As for our "new" supplements. The Black Legion one looks fun, but it's not even a Band-Aid at this point. We're just too horribly out of touch with the game at the basic design level.
It's still amusing however that GW managed to give us a highly inferior version of the Libby Conclave for example...
So the dudes who opened their minds to the full potential & endless power of Chaos get a shiny new WC3 spell that one of them can cast! Meanwhile, the dudes who are still rigidly bound to always holding back on their full potential for fear of corruption, have much easier access to harnessing the very thing they fear!
Oh well, I guess we're supposed to be overjoyed that we no longer have to pay an additional +6pts/model for WS5/BS5 Termies anymore.
After discussing this with a few other players, I admit I was wrong. I was unaware of the new shenanigans the Fenris book allowed. At this point, I'd be content to see the other 3 Chaos powers get the Daemonkin treatment.
All of this complaining, this is the kind of stuff that is bad for the community as a whole. Everyone keep in mind these are supplements, NOT the codex! I would expect that we will see a chaos codex if not before the end of the year then probably early next year. And they have been doing a lot of things in phases. i used to be really down about GW to but I have to say this new President and general attitude is a step inthe right direction. I mean either way our CSM armies are more playable then they where before now.
YES other armies are still better but we will need a codex fix to solve that problem. For the love of god stop all the complaining, some of those formations are decent, And some crazy combos! The grass is ALWAYS going to be greener on the other side! Their are a lot of other armies in the game that have fallen behind the "top tier" armies. I mean we can't all be taudar.... but if we could all point and shoot the game would be super boring! Just stop the complaining! and either enjoy playing your army or for the love of god play another one, or another game. but I can promise you that you will find that any game you go to some armies are better then others. i get chaos is not in a good place and hasn't been for quite a while, but you DO have options! Just stop bitching!
Go out and play some of theses formations, I mean actually play them! i have played three experimental games with the rules printed out to just test them, and what you can do is actually decent. YES there are still some shortcomings, lack of mobility being one, But take the Cyclopia Cabal on bikes, yes expensive, but I have made them make up their points in ONE round of forcing a friends Stormserge's open up on his army. Combine that with Bikes and Flesh hounds from the KDK book and that is a very fast army that can scout, get melta and contend Psycic dice with any army in the game. are their better? yes! but again the grass is always greener on the other side! A solid Chaos codex or hell even CSM in one of the( i believe) two more War zone Fenris books and the whole conversation is turned on it 's head! BE patent, things ARE changing at GW! Give them time to fix the years of bad leadership from their former brass! And for god sake quit complaining about everything! Hell i even saw complaints about the "choose your traitor legion chart! what ELSE can you possibly complain about! it was put out for fun as mucha s the Space marine one was! So either play the game we all love or don't, but as far as i am concerned if all you want to do is complain, find another hobby! Because its cancer for this one and I want to enjoy mine.
*Steps off soap box!*
There is no new Chaos codex until middle of next year, according to the most reliable rumor sources.
Besides, I really think this whole, "shut-up, enjoy what little you do have/L2P" typically comes from those who only jumped into Chaos *after* the great gutting of the entire faction...
When all you've known is crap, it's a lot easier to stay positive that eventually, the future will be brighter.
However, if you were around for the 3.5ed codex, despite its balance issues and a few stand-outs that made no sense, (ie: why no Khornate Havocs loaded with flamers/meltas?), it's only natural to be a jaded, hate-filled, embittered veteran.
People forget, or never even knew about how we actually had literally everything that Loyalists marines now have.
And then, because of both constant complaining from the Loyalist fan base, and JJ deciding that Legion rules and the Books of Chaos were too much for his 6 year old son to handle, it was all stripped away.
Yet then, less than a year later, Loyalists get handed those very same exact rules that were so callously stripped from us. And then to top it all off, they get a bunch of carbon copy wargear/options that we had, yet lost, because they were deemed to be too OP/game-breaking.
And the only thing we've had ever since, has been to endure both the constant middle finger from GW, to Loyalist players always whining the second we do get anything remotely capable of going toe-to-toe with their toys. (case in point, Hellturkies still make you TFG/WaaC's, Daemon Summoning ruined 40k, Oblits & Plaguemarines are OP, spell Familiars & Lv3 Sorcs are Librarians +10, etc...)
It's been 10+ years of neglect and hypocrisy from the largest faction in 40k. We're sick of it. And just saying, "shut-up/L2P, no more complaining, be positive instead & enjoy your polished turd with sprinkles" is even more grating on the nerves of long time Chaos fans.
Read the first post on this page, and then please stop this argument. You've been proven wrong, not only by one of THE most reliable rumour mongers around, but by the fluff itself, which you claim only goes one way? Ynnead and the Eldar is conclusive proof GW are getting rid of Slaanesh in your eyes, yet you ignore the AoS fluff that is clearly building up to a major story moment which is contrary to your argument.
a) do the reliable rumour mongers claim to know EVERYTHING for years now? That's a very long time to know 100% accurately. Do they get detailed tour by GW of their future plans?
b) I'm saying they could easily be planning story line where Slaanesh goes for temporal hiatus in 40k just as it's in AOS. Yes Slaanesh is almost certain to come back in AOS. Slaanesh ain't back yet is it? Which means there's still time for Slaanesh to be prisoned in 40k...
Sheesh. I'm not claiming Slaanesh will disapear permanently in 40k(if you would read I'm not even claiming Slaanesh WILL disapear temporarily...I'm just open to entertaining POSSIBILITY GW could pull such a move. I'm saying chance of that is bigger than 0%. You say it's 100% sure not to happen when one thing sure in this world is change. Even Hastings claims he's not perfect and that stuff he has seen has later changed in shape or timeframe. Lol. If Hastings doesn't claim he's 100% certain why you claim he is?). I'm saying GW could easily be planning similar hiatus in 40k as Slaanesh is on in AOS. What's so hard to swallow in such a possibility? Just because they put Slaanesh on temporal hiatus in AOS means they can't do same in 40k?
Real question whether they put or not is timeline for Slaanesh returns. If it's soon then likely not. If if's still far away odds increase. Haven't seen anybody(not even your reliable rumour mongers you claim know 100% accurate info for YEARS. Okay could Hastings then say what major releases we have in 2020 then?) tell WHEN Slaanesh returns.
With regards to the next Chaos codex, it's nice to know GW is actually taking their time and putting thought into it. The last thing anyone wants is another book that substitutes quality with rolls on a random chart, introduces EotG / Warpflame Gargoyles / other useless stuff.
Holding out hope that FW stuff shows up in the next Codex. Would love to see how competitive armies stack up against Chaos bringing Fire Raptors, artillery squads, etc.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Even being open to the idea that Slaanesh could be removed is stupid. I'm putting that bluntly for you.
I agree. It was a stretch in AoS, but at least they had the excuse that they had a more crowded cosmology and were trying to simplify and streamline that game. For 40k, there isn't any real reason to and its much more problematic from a lore stand point.
Red Corsair wrote:I have been playing chaos since 2nd ed and I stopped complaining after 5th edition. I just started fielding my chaos warbands using loyalist rules.
I mean all that really matters at this point is the fluff and aesthetic. You can field a better khorne army then khorne ever could using space wolves, a better thousand sons army using grey knights etc etc Iron hands for iron warriors, raven guard for night lords, dark angels for word bearers.
Seriously, they have made so many fething units at this point that the distinction is comically narrow and pontless. I mean in 5th you had summoned demons and oblits and even the demon prince, now centurions are an exact analog to oblits, imperials can summon demons and smash bane McShield eternal on a bike has the same stats as a fething demon prince. Hell even mutalators have an exact analog in assault centurions lol.
I am not saying more rules aren't fun or welcome, but if your having issues just pick up that other power armor codex.
Other then the crappy dinobots, someone name a unit that chaos has that can't be represented using imperial units. That list is silly small if existent at all.
But then again I am an original dark eldar player, so I had to learn to cope during a 12 year wait. At least chaos got decent models during that period
I don't think the daemon engines are crappy, but otherwise I agree with you... its a sad state and really demands GW rethink Chaos Marines in a more extreme way. They've made loyalist marines so good at doing everything, the distinctiveness needs to be accentuated that much more. When you look back to the height of Chaos Space Marines, at the 3.5 Ed codex with all its options that was berated for being broken for everything it offered... and you compare it to loyalist Space Marines that now get so much they now have a whole book just for those options... Chaos isn't just lacking, its willfully and woefully neglected.
a) do the reliable rumour mongers claim to know EVERYTHING for years now? That's a very long time to know 100% accurately. Do they get detailed tour by GW of their future plans?
b) I'm saying they could easily be planning story line where Slaanesh goes for temporal hiatus in 40k just as it's in AOS. Yes Slaanesh is almost certain to come back in AOS. Slaanesh ain't back yet is it? Which means there's still time for Slaanesh to be prisoned in 40k...
Sheesh. I'm not claiming Slaanesh will disapear permanently in 40k(if you would read I'm not even claiming Slaanesh WILL disapear temporarily...I'm just open to entertaining POSSIBILITY GW could pull such a move. I'm saying chance of that is bigger than 0%. You say it's 100% sure not to happen when one thing sure in this world is change. Even Hastings claims he's not perfect and that stuff he has seen has later changed in shape or timeframe. Lol. If Hastings doesn't claim he's 100% certain why you claim he is?). I'm saying GW could easily be planning similar hiatus in 40k as Slaanesh is on in AOS. What's so hard to swallow in such a possibility? Just because they put Slaanesh on temporal hiatus in AOS means they can't do same in 40k?
Real question whether they put or not is timeline for Slaanesh returns. If it's soon then likely not. If if's still far away odds increase. Haven't seen anybody(not even your reliable rumour mongers you claim know 100% accurate info for YEARS. Okay could Hastings then say what major releases we have in 2020 then?) tell WHEN Slaanesh returns.
OKAY, LIKE REALLY?
1st, please use some freaking grammar. Reading this was like pulling teeth. If you want to communicate your ideas, please do so coherently - we can't read your mind.
2nd, making the claim that it's possible that they might remove/shelf Slaanesh, is quite literally a piss poor spot to stand. Watch.
Vulkan has vanished - must be dead.
Russ has vanished - must be dead.
Do i have any proof for these statements, other than the characters have vanished? No.
Do you have any proof for these statements? No.
What this therefore amounts to is baseless speculation and fan spank.
"Bruh, they didn't give Black Templars a detachment!"
"Wow, guess they're removing Black Templars bruh!"
If GW was going to remove a large portion of their background, they would have just done it. They clearly expressed they have no problems with cutting or removing anything that stands in the way of the narrative they wish to embrace (read; THE ENTIRE OLD WORLD.) If GW has wanted to remove Slaanesh, they just would have done it then, and nod made the three or four pieces of fiction dropping hints about He/She/It.
Don't for a second tell me you don't believe they would have.
I have only been playing for a few years...maybe three and the two armies I play (Tau and SM) have received all kinds of updates. You Chaos players have been neglected. Feel free to complain, you guys have every right. I feel bad. Everyone should get new "toys". That's what makes this game fun. Mods, sorry to go off-topic....back to News and Rumors.
I don't think the daemon engines are crappy, but otherwise I agree with you... its a sad state and really demands GW rethink Chaos Marines in a more extreme way. They've made loyalist marines so good at doing everything, the distinctiveness needs to be accentuated that much more. When you look back to the height of Chaos Space Marines, at the 3.5 Ed codex with all its options that was berated for being broken for everything it offered... and you compare it to loyalist Space Marines that now get so much they now have a whole book just for those options... Chaos isn't just lacking, its willfully and woefully neglected.
I honestly believe it's because GW has 'written themselves into a corner' so to speak.
So let's assume GW puts together the top 10 most cracking rules makers in the world, and hands them...
THE CHAOS FILES Now what? They have to be different than normal Space Marines, can't overlap with the other factions, and must be diverse.
Like, what sweet hell would that be?
What makes World Eaters different than Blood Angels in a way that makes narrative sense of their preference of melee combat?
What makes iron warriors and Imperial Fists different, again in a way that both defines and clarifies their mastery of siege warfare?
While these may seem like easy questions, or have simple solutions, whatever you may have just mentally "fixed" the problem with could easy turn out to be received as a steaming pile of garbage by typical internet audiences - so whatever you make has to be good.
This puts a lot of pressure on the team to get it right. I kind of understand the position they are in - They wont add Forgeworld, because it is not part of their 'main line' and would be seen as pay to win by the community.
They can't add new units to fill holes in the codex, because they don't have control of the marketing team.
They can't dare overshadow Vanilla Space Marines because then everyone who doesn't play chaos gets a giant rage-boner every time someone so much as mentions heldrakes.
Redoing the current Chaos Codex, incorporating the 9 legions, and recent renegade chapters, is not a job i would wish upon anybody. You are expected to fail, and the standard to 'pass' is so impossibly high even if you do make it a good set of rules, it'll still be perceived as GW giving chaos players the 'thick stick'.
my 2 cents.
gigasnail wrote: new stuff comes out. it's not good, for the most part (yeah, the cabal is pretty damn good and it will go right into my KDK, but that is really about it. oh, and mixing relics is great too.). people are annoyed because we're getting new stuff that is mostly craptastic at the exact same time there's a full book update for SM, that they absolutely did not need, with loads of new and interesting shiny bits (and insane powers).
not sure why people don't get why long time chaos players are a bit annoyed. it's mystifying and it comes up every time there is a new non-starter release.
yes, i'm very pleased at the two usable things we got this time around. no, i'm not happy because the rest of the things we got are bad, and the codex remains largely terrible.
i'm happy my chaos counts-as codex marine force continues to get new shiny stuff.
i'm not happy i have to have a counts-as anything to use the models i own and have anything like a fighting chance against modern army lists.
Hey, we get your frustration, it's just getting annoying seeing CSM players show up to complain on EVERY thread about a release. The rumor-mongers are calling for a shiny new codex for CSM early 2017, and that information has shown up more than once on this very forum, so it's tough to deal with all the whining about "we need a new codex, nut just a few decent options" when you are getting a new codex (and new models to boot!). I just wish you could show a little patience and let GW spend the time it takes to actually make your 'dex a good one. Keep screaming and GW may just decide to release whatever half-finished gak they have right now and you'll be in the same boat as Orks are (not that Orks were whining before you supplement update. GW just hates you )
Maybe...but why would any CSM player actually expect the "NEW" codex to actually be well....new? Or even good? We got a ton of models last time with atrocious rules, and horrible balance. These new Formation aren't simply incompetence, or malice. The design team can write fun and interesting rules when they want too; we've all seen them. This is apathy plain and simple. The person who wrote them didn't care; hell they didn't even try. I not sure why you'd have any hope that the next codex will be better; given our track record. Heck, I not even sure I want a new codex. Every time, a new one comes out we either loose options, or units. I'm even more scared for my daemons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That said are there even any new & rumors left? It's all pretty well spoiled now. Nothing, left now but tears and disappoint.
Neronoxx wrote: Redoing the current Chaos Codex, incorporating the 9 legions, and recent renegade chapters, is not a job i would wish upon anybody. You are expected to fail, and the standard to 'pass' is so impossibly high even if you do make it a good set of rules, it'll still be perceived as GW giving chaos players the 'thick stick'.
my 2 cents.
The thing is if they were to even acknowledge chaos legions in 40k (and they probably won't) it definitely wouldn't be like that. Space Marines don't get everything in one book. You have Codex Space Marines sure, but you also have Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, the Warzone Kauyon and the latest supplement.
If they were to represent the 9 legions it wouldn't be through some return to the 3.5 era but rather through a mass release of supplements like Black Legion & Crimson Slaughter. I don't really know how viable selling books that contact a bit of fluff along with new warlord traits, relics & formations but GW is churning them out like no tomorrow (especially in AoS) so I assume they are making money out them. And if Tzeentch Daemonkin is unlikely then I think its safe to say "Codex: Night Lords" is probably not on the cards.
Fundamentally they are not going to give this all for free (or rather in one £30-35 book) when they can charge for it seperately.
Moreover If they redo CSM I fear it won't be the rebalance people want. The reason is that they will want you to buy the few new kits they release with the codex rather than pile into the old stuff.
To pick an obvious example Warp Talons have been and grow ever more stupidly over costed. Many years ago they were paying the "oh no they might beat a tactical squad tax" if for some reason they forgot to shoot them. Given the new Wulfen however such tax seems to have long since been got rid of.
The thing is GW won't want you to go and buy boxes of Warp Talons they released 4-5 years ago for £21. They will want you to buy "Angry Chaos Pogo-stick riders" at £35.
So really it comes down to what people want and hope for.
1. A complete re-write giving them the full Space Marine treatment, with nearly a dozen "factions" of Chaos all with special characters, formations and so on.
2. A complete re-write of the current Codex so most units are vaguely worthwhile for their points (the Eldar option)
3. Just one competitive build that would lift the army from bottom tier even if it remains full of units no one has any excuse to use beyond their own weird obsessions.
The third option is not so unrealistic. I fear 1 & 2 however are fantasies which will never be realised.
You don't need to represent all 9 Legions within the basic CSM codex. The 4 God aligned legions can get enough flavour by having the option to take the core of their force from their relevant Cult unit, and then adding on suitable extras & upgrades.
Sure, no Cult Termies is still annoying, but it's not really the end of the world. (despite some who will always claim that WE/DG/EC/TS's are 100% unplayable just because no cult termies...)
Add in a proper armoury that gives relevant upgrades for each God, (ie: Tzeentch marked IC's can choose to take Inferno Bolts, Khornate characters can take the Butcher's Nails, etc...), and it's close enough that those Legions are now fully playable without the need to devote additional Legion/Chapter Traits. (let's face it, Marks are in fact, part of our version of CT's!)
Finish off with a fluffy formation dedicated to each God, and while not perfect, it's still giving the God-specific Legions a helluva lot more than the current gakfest.
Thus, you can leave the page devoted to 'Legion Legacies/Traits/Ancestry/whatever', to the likes of;
Iron Warriors
Night Lords
Alpha Legion
Word Bearers
Black Legion
Red Corsairs
Since overall, there is literally NO current representation for undivided/non-marked Legions.
You could even add-in stipulations, such that the only mark allowed within Iron Warriors is the MoK, while no marked models may be taken within Night Lords or Alpha Legion forces.
That leaves Black Legion, Word Bearers, and the Red Corsairs (who can ably be used as the template for "Renegade Chapters") to freely mix and match marks & cult units however players want.
Neronoxx wrote: They can't dare overshadow Vanilla Space Marines because then everyone who doesn't play chaos gets a giant rage-boner every time someone so much as mentions heldrakes.
This one is the killer. The entire CSM rules paradigm since 4th edition can be summed up in 1 word: timid. I believe this is entirely due to the 3.5 codex. Pete Haines wasn't afraid to make CSMgood. Everyone after him has been scared to death. You can see it in every release all the way up to and including this latest crapfest.
Strangely enough this only seems to apply to the space marine part of Chaos. Daemons are good and Renegade Knights are even better than the Imperial ones (1 datasheet with all the options > 5 separate codex entries, a rare example where laziness actually worked in our favor). I think this phenomenon may be due to CSM's unfortunate status as archnemesis of the game's golden boys. Since their units are often directly analogous to SM it's very easy for the designer to keep them strictly worse by simply making them cost more for the same stats or by replacing special rules with substitutes that are subpar/more expensive.
He made his Iron Warriors brokenly good.
Everything else in the book was okay to good.
I didn't say he made CSM good. Thousand Sons for instance most certainly did not have a lot going for them. What I said was he wasn't afraid to make them good. The current studio is afraid and this fear comes across in everything they do. That's why the best Black Legion formation is a copy of a SM formation but with worse rules.
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