Da Boss wrote:
Once a month is way too regular. Once or twice a year would be fine.

They essentially only charge one faction each month. For a single faction you can expect about once or twice a year realistically.

So its kinda funny. Reading this thread and the responses here have managed to both light my interest in the game and scare me away at the same time.

What I think the game needs is a simple quick start ruleset. Something straightfoward and easy to manage that so you can play a few games without feeling like you have to go back to college before getting started.

This would solve the barrier to entry issue, as well as draw people who are scared off by the ultra hardcore style of play. But maybe that's not even doable. Maybe the whole point of Warmahordes is the complexity and removing that leaves the game empty. I don't know.

 Phobos wrote:
So its kinda funny. Reading this thread and the responses here have managed to both light my interest in the game and scare me away at the same time.

What I think the game needs is a simple quick start ruleset. Something straightfoward and easy to manage that so you can play a few games without feeling like you have to go back to college before getting started.

This would solve the barrier to entry issue, as well as draw people who are scared off by the ultra hardcore style of play. But maybe that's not even doable. Maybe the whole point of Warmahordes is the complexity and removing that leaves the game empty. I don't know.

They have boxed sets, sort of, try company of iron and ignore the updates that confuse the hell of it. I thought company of iron was the best thing since mordheim.

The me kill team is pants compared to mordheim. The reason? Customization and progression. Company of iron has it. Mordheim had it. Old necromunda had it, new does not. If they wanted to make a 40k mordheim then they need to think more about the lines of Rogue Trader, aka 40k first edition. You have a space marine hero in power armor, refractor field, a jokero digital weapon, a bolt pistol, and a Webber. Etc. An Ork with a bolter,instead of a slugga cuz he stoled it from an umie.

Sunno wrote:
People going on like WM/H is really hard to get hold of in the UK. All the big online stores, Firestorm, Element etc stock PP products. Its only the BAHI models which you cant get in the UK and most of them are at a price point where you don't pay shipping.

Even if you do get free shipping, you then get hit with Tax (and charges for collecting the tax from the postal service or courier) that mean you're probably paying 30% over PPs price for those BAHI models so it's really, really hard to justify them compared to run of the mill PP stuff you can get a 10-20% discount on

This is no small part of why people hate ForgeWorld in the states.

 LunarSol wrote:
This is no small part of why people hate ForgeWorld in the states.

Do you pay import taxes complete with an arbitrary £8 "handling fee" in the US too?

Shouldn't you blame your postal service for that handling fee? I agree that PP should try to have EU distribution, but that's just an unfriendly policy for imports...

(The separate beef with FW is they still keep the VAT in the price even with non-UK buyers, although apparently if you go buy it there in person you can get a VAT refund at the airport... not worth flying over for usually, though )

 Grimtuff wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
This is no small part of why people hate ForgeWorld in the states.

Do you pay import taxes complete with an arbitrary £8 "handling fee" in the US too?

I mean.... not yet, but give out president time and we'll catch right up.

 RiTides wrote:
Shouldn't you blame your postal service for that handling fee?

Oh, absolutely, but it still needs to be factored in.

The fact that it's a racket is obvious from the total lack of any facility to declare the package as incoming and pre pay the sales tax. You must let the Post Office collect the VAT, and that's what incurs the handling charge. eBay and Amazon have introduced a method of prepaying and circumventing, but that's obviously no good here. In fact, I'm sure an order I made from Amazon US that collected the tax ultimately refunded it when the parcel wasn't intercepted and the tax wasn't charged, but don't quote me on that, it was a while back!

 Phobos wrote:
So its kinda funny. Reading this thread and the responses here have managed to both light my interest in the game and scare me away at the same time.

What I think the game needs is a simple quick start ruleset. Something straightfoward and easy to manage that so you can play a few games without feeling like you have to go back to college before getting started.

This would solve the barrier to entry issue, as well as draw people who are scared off by the ultra hardcore style of play. But maybe that's not even doable. Maybe the whole point of Warmahordes is the complexity and removing that leaves the game empty. I don't know.

PP have been pushing the Champions format recently, a limited format with a rotating lineup of 3-5 casters and 2 themes per faction. It makes list building much more manageable, and reduces the amount of crazy combos possible, and takes out a lot of the "gear check" lists possible. It remains to be seen if it can overcome the inertia of the tournament crowd, but I know local feedback was very positive.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Shouldn't you blame your postal service for that handling fee?

Oh, absolutely, but it still needs to be factored in.

The fact that it's a racket is obvious from the total lack of any facility to declare the package as incoming and pre pay the sales tax. You must let the Post Office collect the VAT, and that's what incurs the handling charge. eBay and Amazon have introduced a method of prepaying and circumventing, but that's obviously no good here. In fact, I'm sure an order I made from Amazon US that collected the tax ultimately refunded it when the parcel wasn't intercepted and the tax wasn't charged, but don't quote me on that, it was a while back!

This, its an utter joke. I order a lot of stuff from abroad because I cannot get it in the UK (anime merc, <REDACTED> milsurp, etc) and I dread customs and the handling charge. Its a fething joke, an excuse for the government to squeeze money from you, but there are no guaranteed ways to circumvent it.

Watch your language please - BrookM

So much what Az13 and Master have said, the VAT threshold is comically low at £15 (especially as postage somehow counts as value) so on small orders the handling charge is 2 or 3 times the VAT due

As much as I hate the lack of PP support outside the US I can't really blame them for it. No one can really pull off worldwide reach aside from GW and even then it's spotty.

I love the Warmachine universe ever since the Witchfire Campaign and alternate setting for Dungeons and Dragons.

Ultimately what has put me off is there's no players around me. I have about 3 or 4 Warmachine armies (nothing big but enough for caster and jacks), some friends have a few and we just can't drum up interest. The nuking of the forums to the axing of Press Gangers to the tone deaf nature of the company remind me of old GW when the forums were closed in 2006. It was handled poorly then and social media is even more important now. I get there was toxicity but there isnt exactly a few sites out there for Warmachine fans.

Coupled with the so-so models at a very high price point and the poor customer service and it's a bad a combination all round.

I still love the setting and the aesthetics. I hope it gets a slight boost in my area (as we appear to all be speaking anecdotally)

I went to the forums to be part of the gaming community for my Hordes hobby experience.

The forums said " We don't want you here "

I stopped playing.

Simple, actually. Reminds me of GW nuking it's forum more than 15 years ago. Luckily for GW, 40k was big enough that there were plenty of third party forums to visit.

Hordes, not so much.

Zond wrote:
Ultimately what has put me off is there's no players around me. I have about 3 or 4 Warmachine armies (nothing big but enough for caster and jacks), some friends have a few and we just can't drum up interest. The nuking of the forums to the axing of Press Gangers to the tone deaf nature of the company remind me of old GW when the forums were closed in 2006. It was handled poorly then and social media is even more important now. I get there was toxicity but there isnt exactly a few sites out there for Warmachine fans

The forums were pretty bad--it was before CID kicked in and everyone was faction-warrioring like a champ for their faction's broken stuff to stay broken. But (much like with this forum now), a five or six precision bans of certain forum warriors would have removed 90% of the toxicity.

 BuFFo wrote:
I went to the forums to be part of the gaming community for my Hordes hobby experience.

The forums said " We don't want you here "

That sounds like a very literal, even-handed and extremely non-paraphrased summary of whatever actually happened.

I loved their forums and participated a lot, since it was my main game and unlike GW most discussion happened at their official site. Removing faction forums made me lose many online connections about the same time I lost many physical ones with the Press Gang program ending.

I kept playing against Wehrkind in our homes for a year, but with no local scene we started to try other options...

There is lormahordes

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
So much what Az13 and Master have said, the VAT threshold is comically low at £15 (especially as postage somehow counts as value) so on small orders, the handling charge is 2 or 3 times the VAT due

VAT collection in the UK is based on rules set by Brussels and the EU as a large element of the fees that the EU collects from members states is funded by VAT, and the EU Administration want to make sure that its member states are able to pay their membership fees to Brussels!

Within the EU VAT is offsettable across national borders and so is collected via businesses selling within them, but trading outside the EU Customs Union with economies such as the USA or Japan, then these charges are insisted upon as the government has to collect the VAT due instead the businesses as obviously USA businesses aren't registered within the EU for VAT. Until the EU negotiates a free trade agreement covering this area with other national governments, such as the USA, then there is little therefore to be done about it.

Even with Brexit looming we may be stuck with this nonsense unless we leave the EU Customs Union altogether. At which point we can lobby parliament to do something about it, hopefully by negotiating a reciprocal arrangement with (say) the USA so that our small businesses aren't subjected to similar charges across the pond.

Of course if we leave the EU Customs Union then we will still be facing the problem with stuff bought/sold across the border with the states remaining within the EU Customs Union, so, for instance, buying Scibor products from Poland will be charged a VAT handling fee, whereas now they are not.

Swings and roundabouts really.

No short-term solution, certainly!

The PP forums were not exactly known for being very welcoming, especially if you mentioned you were still playing GW games (at least, early on). The infestation of page 5 adherents were not helping matters either.

 AduroT wrote:
Increased competition and the pace/sales of the game started to slow, and they seemed rush out the third edition but REALLY bungled the release and very nearly killed the game. They’ve been recovering though and a few years later the game isn’t in a bad place. Locally we don’t have the numbers of its heyday, but it’s still the strong second after Games Workshop.

True, Warmachine is still the 2nd most played game for retail level games out there. In a way it never really changed. Warmachine is big but really the game just shed most of its 40k players who level because of 7th. The whole deal that the game is dead when they just had a big Lock n Load event and just closed out their Iron Gauntlet PP sponsored tournament is ridiculous.

The edition fumble didn't help but CID, free cards that get updated online, free rules, and theme forces to help manage the huge amount of model choices still keeps it the most balanced competitive game out there.

Oh, I wasn't arguing with your points. Your frustration is completely understandable. I just prefer less divisive ways to say someone is money-grubbing than ascribing to them a specific ethnicity, maligning both in the process.

 Phobos wrote:
What I think the game needs is a simple quick start ruleset. Something straightfoward and easy to manage that so you can play a few games without feeling like you have to go back to college before getting started.

Isn't that what the faction starter box were supposed to do? Play faction starters against each other?

Or at least play at that scale, where it's still (relatively) friendly as a small skirmish, vs a huge Warhammer Fantasy-scale battle .


Offending post removed - BrookM

Please just hit the yellow “mod alert” triangle for matters such as the above in the future, and we’ll handle it...

Back on topic now, please - thanks!

Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

Was the same last year when I was at GenCon, though friends said it was packed first day with everyone buying the exclusive items. Swinging by booths that I had been at first day and were packed, it was the same thing. Empty most of the con, but they made their money the first day. The people who worked at PP told me that said GenCon was PP's big moneymaker and helped fund the booth and travel costs for all the other shows they would be at.

The only show I know that they would loose a lot of money on was their booth as San Diego Comic Con. They had a decent size booth dead center of the vendor hall among all the big media booths. People who worked at PP told me it was pure advertising and was for Matt Wilson to try to push the various PP IP on Hollywood by making it look like they were big players in the industry. It's been several years since I've been to SDCC, so don't if they still do the show and my contacts at PP are no longer with the company.

 silent25 wrote:


The only show I know that they would loose a lot of money on was their booth as San Diego Comic Con. They had a decent size booth dead center of the vendor hall among all the big media booths. People who worked at PP told me it was pure advertising and was for Matt Wilson to try to push the various PP IP on Hollywood by making it look like they were big players in the industry. It's been several years since I've been to SDCC, so don't if they still do the show and my contacts at PP are no longer with the company.

That makes a lot of sense, especially given Wilson's Hollywood aspirations. I saw PP's ComicCon booth in '07? I think it was that year. Whichever year the first round of Epic Warcasters were released was the year I attended. The booth was glorious, had a full-sized, 7-foot tall Asphyxious display, and overall the entire setup looked really polished.

I just got an email from Games and Stuff, which is arguably the biggest mid atlantic gaming store, and they're putting all but the core WMH stuff on 75% clearance.

As summer winds down, we are moving around lots of stuff here at the shop. Making room for new lines, consolidating others, and expanding even more!

One thing we are doing is consolidating the Warmachine and Hordes lines down to what Privateer considers "Core products" and moving out a lot of extra stock we have.

So as we do that, you win! We have put almost the ENTIRE LINE* on sale at a huge 75% off! This is crazy (must be the heat). So come in and take advantage of this insane sale! This sale cannot be combined with any other discounts (like our 10% off Survey Reward that you should fill out if you haven't had a chance to complete yet)!

ONLY WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!

Sale prices apply to everything in the Warmachine line except P3 Paints and August New Releases.

Page 5.

Shame there's no online store for them. I'd probably pick a few things up.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Shame there's no online store for them. I'd probably pick a few things up.

It was pretty picked over.

 Polonius wrote:
I just got an email from Games and Stuff, which is arguably the biggest mid atlantic gaming store, and they're putting all but the core WMH stuff on 75% clearance.

As summer winds down, we are moving around lots of stuff here at the shop. Making room for new lines, consolidating others, and expanding even more!

One thing we are doing is consolidating the Warmachine and Hordes lines down to what Privateer considers "Core products" and moving out a lot of extra stock we have.

So as we do that, you win! We have put almost the ENTIRE LINE* on sale at a huge 75% off! This is crazy (must be the heat). So come in and take advantage of this insane sale! This sale cannot be combined with any other discounts (like our 10% off Survey Reward that you should fill out if you haven't had a chance to complete yet)!

ONLY WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!

Sale prices apply to everything in the Warmachine line except P3 Paints and August New Releases.

Wow, that's crazy! Games and Stuff is in my area, and that's a pretty good indication of how hard the game crashed here... they used to carry the absolute entire line. 75% off from them (on an entire range!) is just unheard of

Shame it sounds like from Polonius' later post that I missed the good stuff, though = /

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

Sunno wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

Are they only supposed to make one singular game forever? That would be dumb. Also MonPoc was a great game that failed because of the colletable aspect and still had lots of people wanting it back and asking about it. If you never heard it you weren’t listening.

 AduroT wrote:

Sunno wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

Are they only supposed to make one singular game forever? That would be dumb. Also MonPoc was a great game that failed because of the colletable aspect and still had lots of people wanting it back and asking about it. If you never heard it you weren’t listening.

Didn’t some kind of movie deal fall through which also hurt MonPoc the first time around , besides the collectible part? Thought they signed over rights and recently got the back.

That was a popular theory but I don’t believe it was ever confirmed. PP basically just went radio silent on MonPoc for awhile and wouldn’t talk about it at all.

 AduroT wrote:

Sunno wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

Are they only supposed to make one singular game forever? That would be dumb. Also MonPoc was a great game that failed because of the colletable aspect and still had lots of people wanting it back and asking about it. If you never heard it you weren’t listening.

The frustrating thing is PP seems to half-ass their side games. When Level 7 came out, people who played it claimed it was fairly good, but felt way overpriced with just having paper stands for all the characters. Instead of wasting money on that horrible intro video, they could have had several figures made.

The WMH board games were frustrating because the figs were always at a reduced scale relative to the actual WMH game. People may complain, at most of GWs games but they have cross purpose uses.

 AduroT wrote:
That was a popular theory but I don’t believe it was ever confirmed. PP basically just went radio silent on MonPoc for awhile and wouldn’t talk about it at all.

Yeah, wasn't Tim Burton supposedly attached to that movie? What a weird one that would have been.

The Hollywood Reporter had this about a MonPoc movie from 2016 (and mentions the previous attempt at making a movie with Mr. Burton):

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/monsterpocalypse-movie-warner-bros-wins-890002

Fede Alvarez, who directed the remake of 'Evil Dead,' is attached to co-write and helm the adaptation of the board game. Warner Bros has won the heated bidding war for the adaptation of Monsterpocalypse, the cult board game, with Fede Alvarez, helmer of the Evil Dead remake, attached to co-write and direct.

The package for the project hit the town last week and quickly generated interest and bids from studios, including DreamWorks and Sony on top of Warners. The bidding escalated quickly, hitting at least the mid-six figures against seven figures for just the rights and writing alone. Warners is now in negotiations for the package.

Monsterpocalypse is a board game from Privateer Press and created by Matt Wilson that pits humans in robot suits against monsters. An adaptation was previously attempted around 2010 with a package that included Tim Burton as director and John August as screenwriter. It stalled in development after Crimson Peak filmmaker Guillermo del Toro made a competing humans-in-robot-suits-against-monsters, 2013’s Pacific Rim.

Sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that the new package has a take that is substantially different from that of the previous iteration, as well as Rim's, although the core concept — humans versus monsters — remains.

Alvarez will write the screenplay with his writing partner Rodo Sayagues.

Alvarez demonstrated a passion for the material with his regular works in the horror and robot subgenres. He made his breakthrough debut with the popular short Panic Attack!, which featured giant robots attacking the South American city of Montevideo, which led to his directing 2013’s remake of Evil Dead. His latest, Don’t Breathe, is a horror movie that Screen Gems will release Aug. 26.

Alvarez is repped by WME, Anonymous Content and Jackoway Tyerman. Wilson is repped by Stone Genow and Heitmann Entertainment.

So that's why PP is relaunching MoPoc.

 silent25 wrote:
So that's why PP is relaunching MoPoc.

Whatever the excuse, I'm happy to hear it. MonPoc was a real favorite of mine, and by the looks of things the new edition is going to clean up a good number of my original gripes.

On why it died, I'm almost certain it came down to the inability to have the figures produced affordably. Every single prepaint game died at that time and a few developers I knew at the time from another game gave me cost estimates of production that were 7x what they used to be due to a combination of oil prices increasing both the material and shipping costs and China's economic boom meant people were actually getting paid to paint the things. On the flip side, people were losing their homes in mass and kids were largely unemployed so its not like minis were in high demand at the time either. Companies were doing all kinds of things to get what they could out of the molds they'd already produced and there was hope it might be viable again, but with a few exceptions (namely Iron Man making it worthwhile to purchase and relaunch Heroclix) the industry that made MonPoc just died and PP had little reason to relaunch it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:

Are they only supposed to make one singular game forever? That would be dumb. Also MonPoc was a great game that failed because of the colletable aspect and still had lots of people wanting it back and asking about it. If you never heard it you weren’t listening.

On this note, PP does have a problem with its fanbase's insistence on "Masters Only". The number of times I've heard people unwilling to try Champions for reasons like "there's no good Haley2 counter in my set" is just.... IDK, disheartening, I guess.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Shouldn't you blame your postal service for that handling fee?

Oh, absolutely, but it still needs to be factored in.

The fact that it's a racket is obvious from the total lack of any facility to declare the package as incoming and pre pay the sales tax. You must let the Post Office collect the VAT, and that's what incurs the handling charge. eBay and Amazon have introduced a method of prepaying and circumventing, but that's obviously no good here. In fact, I'm sure an order I made from Amazon US that collected the tax ultimately refunded it when the parcel wasn't intercepted and the tax wasn't charged, but don't quote me on that, it was a while back!

This, its an utter joke. I order a lot of stuff from abroad because I cannot get it in the UK (anime merc, <REDACTED> milsurp, etc) and I dread customs and the handling charge. Its a fething joke, an excuse for the government to squeeze money from you, but there are no guaranteed ways to circumvent it.

Watch your language please - BrookM

You don't have to pay the handling fee. You can do the import paperwork and customs clearing yourself if you want. It'll probably cost more than £8, though.

If it costs more than that to file paperwork for getting such a small package, I think that is quite a punitive system for consumers

PP (and other hobby companies) should obviously do all they can to help customers avoid it (since otherwise, they probably won't be customers for long!), but that really could use fixing...

WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

 NAVARRO wrote:
WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

you may not for a tabletop game, but would you for an RPG?

I would.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

you may not for a tabletop game, but would you for an RPG?

to quote Mr Smith 'awww hell no'

if we are talking about Mk3 starter boxes they are generally below board game quality

 NAVARRO wrote:
WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

Depends on the design of the minis, but "probably".

I'd buy it up. I've been buying stuff at 50% off, and having a good time with it.

I like the models. I don't find them to be of terrible quality. I like the relatively simple, un-loaded look, as I find it easier to paint.

I like WMH models.

Sunno wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

I feel like Monsterpocalypse was talked about quite a bit on the old PP forums. Level 7 on the other hand …

AduroT wrote:

Sunno wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Completely anecdotal, but was at Gen Con and the large PP booth was very, very quiet every time i saw it. It really stood out in it's emptiness. They were pushing Monsterpocolypse rather than Warmahordes, but that seemed to be getting very little interest either. They must have spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ on the sponsorship and booth size and i think it's impossible they didn't make a hefty loss.

One of the things that does frustrate me about PP is that they often sink time and effort into products or games that nobody asked for. The re-doing of MonPoc is an example of this. Along with some of their other small or stand alone games. With MonPoc the call for its return in the community was deafening. Well it must have been. Because I couldn't hear anything........

Are they only supposed to make one singular game forever? That would be dumb. Also MonPoc was a great game that failed because of the colletable aspect and still had lots of people wanting it back and asking about it. If you never heard it you weren’t listening.

Agreed here - diversifying is one of (if not the only?) positive steps PP has taken lately towards righting the ship. WM/Hordes is becoming bloated (at least the main factions) they can't keep up the level of releases they have been forever. Taking an occasional month off for Monsterpoc (and having that new, licensed Minicrate) are good things for PP to be doing.

NAVARRO wrote:WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

I wanna say yes - but then I look at all the primed PP stuff stitting at my desk that I need to take ANOTHER pass on to try to remove even more mold lines from ... and well, that's what stopped me from ordering a mysterybox - and those are probably pretty close to 75% off. So I guess the answer is no.

Schmapdi wrote:

I wanna say yes - but then I look at all the primed PP stuff stitting at my desk that I need to take ANOTHER pass on to try to remove even more mold lines from ... and well, that's what stopped me from ordering a mysterybox - and those are probably pretty close to 75% off. So I guess the answer is no.

90% of my Trolls are still the metals and I know most do not like to clean those but once you do you have a great model with crisp details. Since the shift to other materials PP has been hit and miss but even if you take the time to clean some of theirs cheaper casts the detail is not there. Its like spending time to polish something that does not deliver. Waste of time really.
For me that has been the reason I gave up on PP. From a company that defended metal minis as their core to something bellow boardgames standarts. pass.

 NAVARRO wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:

I wanna say yes - but then I look at all the primed PP stuff stitting at my desk that I need to take ANOTHER pass on to try to remove even more mold lines from ... and well, that's what stopped me from ordering a mysterybox - and those are probably pretty close to 75% off. So I guess the answer is no.

90% of my Trolls are still the metals and I know most do not like to clean those but once you do you have a great model with crisp details. Since the shift to other materials PP has been hit and miss but even if you take the time to clean some of theirs cheaper casts the detail is not there. Its like spending time to polish something that does not deliver. Waste of time really.
For me that has been the reason I gave up on PP. From a company that defended metal minis as their core to something bellow boardgames standarts. pass.

See, this is what I don't understand about PP. They are so schizophrenic about what they want to be.

On one hand they try and come off as a company that puts out quality miniatures, hence minicrate, the L5R tie in, $150 kits.

But how are people introduced to their product? I would daresay that the majority are from buying starter boxes, like me. Which are unquestionably if not the worst minis in the industry, certainly in the running for the title.

It makes no sense to me.

Again, I like the Retribution Starter boxes. I like the Mk 2 Kador box, the Mk 2 and 3 Oboros Boxes. My son likes the Skorne box, so I picked it up. I imagine the cyclops will be nightmares to assemble, but the sculpts are ok. I'm happy with the Retribution infantry. It's part of what attracted me to the faction in the first place.

It's an eye of the beholder thing. I quite like the aesthetics, and have minimal issues with mould lines, though some have been irksome to deal with.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
WOW 75% off? That sums up the state of things for PP on that area.

Question remains would you buy loads of restic at that price? Personally? No.

you may not for a tabletop game, but would you for an RPG?

Possibly, or for little projects, but the thought of losing yet more blood to restic is a turn off.

Restic is a test of character, like the Kobayashi Maru.

You know that saying “... live long enough to see yourself become the villain”? I feel like all successful games sort of end up like that. At some point they face challenges with play testing, spam / min-max lists, staying new while controlling costs, etc.

Happens to Warhammer, Warmachine, even like X-Wing, Malifaux.

Course, some companies handle it better than others but it’s still something they all run across.

From what I can tell, AoS is picking up steam and Warmahordes is still steadily losing ground to other games...

Same sort of feeling here.
AoS has some potential to be set free.
For instance, the WH AoS app allows to build armies for just 0.99 Euro per month.
I've gotten the app and I'm happy with it.

Over the last few Adepticons I've received both the Hordes and Warmachine Mk. III books, plus a few models.

I have a small Khador force and I ordered two mystery boxes.

I liked Warmahordes back in the day when I played in a league or two (immediately before and after Hordes became a thing).

From what I can tell, the rules still look fun. If you just want to play with a friend or two I'd say now may be a good time to jump in with everything selling for so cheap. I can't speak at all to the organized play and tournament side though, but it looks like plenty of people here can.

 RiTides wrote:
If it costs more than that to file paperwork for getting such a small package, I think that is quite a punitive system for consumers

It's not just about filing paperwork - it's about having a presence at the port of entry to physically present the packages to UK Border Force, having storage facilities, etc. I followed a link once that explained what went into it all, but I didn't note the specifics, sorry.

 wuestenfux wrote:

From what I can tell, AoS is picking up steam and Warmahordes is still steadily losing ground to other games...

Same sort of feeling here.
AoS has some potential to be set free.
For instance, the WH AoS app allows to build armies for just 0.99 Euro per month.
I've gotten the app and I'm happy with it.

I recently got company of iron as I like the PP setting and basics of the game but don't care for the full scale competitive game. Downloaded Privateer's app and was really turned off by the cost let alone how poorly made the app is (which is even more of an insult since they charge). $20 may not seam much but that only gets me cards for CoI, if for some reason I wanted to play warmahords I'd have to re-buy all the cards again which is double dipping as there's very little difference between the two card sets. With basically every other skirmish game having all their rules and stats available online for free with better quality apps I don't know what PP is doing. It's hard to convince my friends to play this, over say infinity or batman, even though in those instances they're using my minis as well just because it costs them money just to make a list to play.

Seriously if you want to look up what an effect on a card is it loads a freaking PDF that's almost unreadable on a phone.

I've gotten to playing games pretty exclusively digitally. My experience is across the board that phones are fine for things like research, dojo, and list building, but gameplay really need the screen realestate of a tablet. For the most part any old cheap tablet will do, its just the ability to have two columns worth of readable data in landscape mode that really makes the difference.

I disagree that a tablet is needed if you design for a phone. You can tell warroom was made for tablets which was a bad idea as tablets really aren't that popular anymore yet everyone has a phone. Thinking about it none of my friends even have one outside of the cheap one for their kids.

So if I want to build a list I have to have the pdf open on my computer as warroom is crap for letting you know what a figure does. What a wonderful service I'm paying for.

IDK what more you'd want it to do for letting you know model rules. At least as far as I'm concerned it brings up the full card at essentially the same size as the full card. I use it on my phone all the time for list building. I just think its limited as a player aid without a tablet.

I'm not sure what game aid you've found that works really well on a phone. I've had decent luck with Guild Ball, but that's largely due to the limited model selection. Most programs I've used either end up with a ton of scrolling or tapping around to work with the limited screen space.

Tablets have never been all that popular but I find them pretty worthwhile, particularly if you start using them for rulebooks over paper copies. I have it on my phone as well in case I need it, but most rulebooks really don't read well on a 6" page.

I'd want to be able to click on one of those symbols on a card that are tied to a rule and let me know what it is. I haven't played anything warmachine related for 4-5 years so I don't know what any of that stuff means. Instead you have to go to the dictionary, find the word that you think it is, click on it, wait for the PDF to load (and I have a high end phone) they try to read it in the PDF.

I'm sure the extra screen size of the tablet is quite nice but I'm not going to invest a couple hundred in even a low end one just for playing wargames which may only happen once a month for me.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I disagree that a tablet is needed if you design for a phone. You can tell warroom was made for tablets which was a bad idea as tablets really aren't that popular anymore yet everyone has a phone. Thinking about it none of my friends even have one outside of the cheap one for their kids.

So if I want to build a list I have to have the pdf open on my computer as warroom is crap for letting you know what a figure does. What a wonderful service I'm paying for.

If you're serious, get yourself a cheap arse tablet. I'll put my hands up and say I myself had a huge amount of personal pushback on this, but this is the way the wind is blowing in this industry. I picked up one for £50 and it serves me excellently for WMH, Malifaux et al.

War Room is good, most of the above things are user errors. I fail to see how clicking on an icon which literally takes you to the relevant rule in the rulebook is bad design, and even then those USRs are not that numerous and you can easily discern what each symbol means within time without having to look it up.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I disagree that a tablet is needed if you design for a phone. You can tell warroom was made for tablets which was a bad idea as tablets really aren't that popular anymore yet everyone has a phone. Thinking about it none of my friends even have one outside of the cheap one for their kids.

So if I want to build a list I have to have the pdf open on my computer as warroom is crap for letting you know what a figure does. What a wonderful service I'm paying for.

If you're serious, get yourself a cheap arse tablet. I'll put my hands up and say I myself had a huge amount of personal pushback on this, but this is the way the wind is blowing in this industry. I picked up one for £50 and it serves me excellently for WMH, Malifaux et al.

War Room is good, most of the above things are user errors. I fail to see how clicking on an icon which literally takes you to the relevant rule in the rulebook is bad design, and even then those USRs are not that numerous and you can easily discern what each symbol means within time without having to look it up.

I actually do have a tablet. It's a $1,200 one that none of these apps run on but hey, I've got steam and can play regular video games on it. My argument really is if they want people to be playing their games they need to make it easy to do so. Designing their app so the expensive screen you always carry around with you isn't ideal is a poor business decision. This hobby is already expensive enough. And most of my friends that play with me have no disposable income so that would also be me buying multiple tablets for them to use.

Also the UI doesn't work for everything when clicking on the card. I've been trying to build an Alexia based force and while I can click on the officer icon on the top of her card and get to the dictionary, which intern I can click to to goto the PDF, the thralls on the card none of their stuff is clickable nor is the symbol on the wytchfire that's the magic weapon effect if I remember correctly. So it's pretty random on what works and doesn't as it appears some icons aren't set up to do anything.

The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

...or you can just print out thr free copies of the cards you can download right off their website.

My buddy and I printed out our cards onto cheap cardstock, and purchased the mini rulebooks for $15 for the Hordes and Warmachine rules digest together.

You don't HAVE to spend hundreds on a new tablet, especially when I find the physical cards faster since you can quickly glance at them without breaking your attention to the game, or ever have to worry about battery life, since physical cards don't need electricity for you to read them.

And I pulled this from the X-Wing section, Privateer Press doesn't seem to be imploding anywhere near as this thread believes. As with any edition change, there will be people lost in the process, and new metas will pop up elsewhere.

In our store, which was a GW and X-Wing store... I haven't seem a game of 40k played in over two months, and haven't seen a game of AoS in at least twice that, with the X-Wing group not having shown their faces in half a year. If you want to play tabletop, it is Warmachine or Infinity now.

And I agree, the restic was a pretty poor material choice... But there has been less and less of it recently as many restic warjacks have been redone in HIPS plastic, and many units are made in metal/resin hybrid kits instead of restic now.

 AduroT wrote:
The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

This, and no longer producing cards, were big drawbacks to me, too.

I understand there are workarounds to both - but I shouldn't need to be resorting to a workaround to easily play a game. That is obviously going to lose you players =/

My understanding is that Malifaux 3rd edition will still have cards, too.

 RiTides wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

This, and no longer producing cards, were big drawbacks to me, too.

I understand there are workarounds to both - but I shouldn't need to be resorting to a workaround to easily play a game. That is obviously going to lose you players =/

My understanding is that Malifaux 3rd edition will still have cards, too.

I was upset when the announced that cards would no longer be coming with the models at first, until I realized it allows them to make faster changes to the models to try and provide better balance to the game. I wouldn't have to wait a whole year for something to be fixed since they can just update the app, and update the free online card database.

It also makes it much easier to know you have the most current card... Since when you download the cards to print out, it is the most current card.

I still would have preferred them to supply them with the models, but it keeps me from running into an issue I had at a Malifaux tournament a few years back. When I got to the store, I was planning in running my Guild... But five other players were running Guild as well, so I said screw it and decided to play my Gremlins that I hadn't touched in a while so I could keep it a bit more diverse. After my first round win, it turned out that some of the upgrades to Ophelia I was using was an old version. Thankfully it was a real casual environment, so the problem was addressed before my next round without me being DQ'd. But there had been little announcement online that the new Ophelia upgrade cards were tucked away in a new wave of 2nd edition faction decks... And that I was going to have to buy the whole deck when I just needed two cards.

Because come on, if it is too hard to print and cut out some free upgrade cards, I don't know what to say. 40k has you buying a $40 Codex and $60 rulebook that is generally out of date 2 weeks after it comes out, is further out of date with the twice a year big FAQs, and is out of date again with Chapter Approved. All of that requires you to either keep the PDFs on your phone or print them out, so you are running in to the same issue. Or, you have the ePub version of the 40k Codexes which also have their fair share of problems, and those cost money as well.

Would you have bought the Warmachine rulebook anyways? Because any app or user error or sluggishness with accessing the rules by clicking on the icon in the app is a moot point if you were going to own the big, or small physical rulebook. There is also many, many people who play both casually and competitively that have zero issues with using War Room. I don't personally use it for anything other than list building, and I haven't noticed a real advantage or disadvantage playing using my printed off and sleeved physical cards.

Further update relevant to privateer press.

No more no quarter.

http://privateerpress.com/no-quarter-prime/farewell-to-no-quarter-prime

Another ominous sign of decline, or privateer press keeping with the times?

Regardless - such a shame - NQ was a fantastic resource, and one I will genuinely miss. It had so much excellent content.

I’ve never bought a NQ magazine. It does make sense to me to no longer make a print magazine, when they’re shifting everything else to digital.

Subscription to online sources seems to be the way to go. Something like $25 a year gets you access to the living rulebook, cards, Chapter Approved... er... No Quarter... whatever content is relevant.

You could also tie that into Starter Boxes that give you X months of access. Or any product. It could be a way to encourage “original” sales rather than 2nd hand purchases.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I’ve never bought a NQ magazine. It does make sense to me to no longer make a print magazine, when they’re shifting everything else to digital.

Subscription to online sources seems to be the way to go. Something like $25 a year gets you access to the living rulebook, cards, Chapter Approved... er... No Quarter... whatever content is relevant.

You could also tie that into Starter Boxes that give you X months of access. Or any product. It could be a way to encourage “original” sales rather than 2nd hand purchases.

Ugh, I hope this doesn't go this way. Subscriptions are getting to be such a preadatory business practice. It's getting to the point where you no longer own anything at all, and every company is trying to talk you into paying money to them forever and hoping you'll just forget or be too lazy to cut your sub in lean years or if you lose interest.

I agree that I dislike the lack of ownership. Buuuut, in this case, you could print out your cards / rules / NQ articles, and if your sub expired, you just wouldn’t have access to more current content. In that way, it would be like having a paper codex that stays as-is until you buy the next codex.

For me, personally, I would enjoy having wider access to information, but can’t justify the expense of it. Whereas with an all inclusive subscription, or a buy models to gain all inclusive access type thing, I could have that.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I agree that I dislike the lack of ownership. Buuuut, in this case, you could print out your cards / rules / NQ articles, and if your sub expired, you just wouldn’t have access to more current content. In that way, it would be like having a paper codex that stays as-is until you buy the next codex.

For me, personally, I would enjoy having wider access to information, but can’t justify the expense of it. Whereas with an all inclusive subscription, or a buy models to gain all inclusive access type thing, I could have that.

So apart from subscription I would then have to pay more for getting them in print and end up with worse quality product...Not charmed at the idea.

No Quarter was still a window on everything related to Privateer Press. With the removal of Press Gangers, this move is a bad sign IMHO. It looks like another cost cut than anything else.

The point of No Quarter was not bringing more money with its sale in itself : it was a way to keep touch with their customers and was a source of inspiration for their favourite games (modelling/painting/collecting/gaming). It looks like Privateer Press is making another step in the Kirby Course full forward, from my point of view.

Remove of No Quarter and Press Gangers is bad sign for the player base. They seem to cut back costs even further. Let's see where that leads.

Decided to put this here rather than news and rumors, but a little Birdy told me that the P3 paints had an official restocking time horizon of 3 months, minimum, possibly longer.

Remember most paints are out of stock right now except those that are not favored or in limited use. What is expected of even more bizzare about this is they recently released some new paints.


Same Birdy told me that the blind box sale was a resounding success. I mean like huge. So money is not an issue. Wonder why the long lead time. Wife is in manufacturing and this kind of lead time is found in parts ordered from India. China tends to deliver faster turn around time.

Anyways my Birdy didn't answer my inquest into the details of the why's.

Still it is hard info. This info came about from official businesses with them not just a rummor but about fulfillment times.

According to r/warmachine they're in the middle of switching factories for the paint.

Oh no....my Tau depends on ordic olive

I find the P3 paints to be very good. Both for brushwork and into an airbrush. I tend to use them as my main paints but use GW for washes and the "technical paints".

As long as I can still get hold of them I don't really mind where they are manufactured.

Sunno wrote:
I find the P3 paints to be very good. Both for brushwork and into an airbrush. I tend to use them as my main paints but use GW for washes and the "technical paints".

As long as I can still get hold of them I don't really mind where they are manufactured.

There is the possibility that the paint is no longer the same as it was with the change of manufacturer.

I hope Skorne red is not effected to much by this, it is a funny light orange/red/brown and it took me long enough to find a red similar enough to the old GW Mechrite Red.

As long as the paint uses the same formula and is made to the same quality then it shouldn't be an issue beyond a bit of supply disruption. GW's issue when they changed paints wasn't just changing production facilities but the recipes and copyright tiles and such so it sparked a range of changes.

Of course there's always a risk of subtle shifts in colour happening.

The resounding success of the Mystery Box says a lot about how much customers are willing to pay for product.
If you can get almost an entire army for $60, there isn't many who would say no.

It still says a lot of what the perceived value of their models are.
I hope they can continue as I'd really hate may favourite paint disappear.

A change in manufacturers could mean a marked difference in pint quality, and it wouldn't be the first time the P3s had problems from a change in manufacturing.

From since I've initially posted here it's actually started to get a footing again

Players went from 20+ at local events during the end of MK2 down to 2-4 during the start of MK3 to an odd showing of 12+ players for events again

Yeah the factory shift has me severely worried. I've yet to see a production shift occur that did not markedly alter the paint.

The issue I see is this: paint has gotten a lot more expensive. Not just on your side but on the production side. Certain kinds of chemicals are up there and climbing as are certain formulations of pigments (huge in acrylics).

You almost NEVER get the same formulation when you shift factories, factories are "brands". They all have their production lines set up and that means x formula. Citadel does not make their own P3 does not, Vallejo does not, scale 76 does not.. and onward. NO ONE makes their own paint. They all source from certain factories.

The cost increases are what cause companies to shift factories.

P3 paints were something I was into explicitly because of the formula they were using, if that changes, then the properties will change and I will be back scanning through the brands to find the paints I want.

Skorn Red is a great Tomato Red, pretty rare color in this era. The behavior of the paints on my wet pallet is what caused me to brand shift towards P3 now only for them to also go through a reformulation.

This is beyond frustrating. GW paints in this edition of their naming nomenclature has shifted factories several times which is why the paints have gone from quite nice to jellied metallics and the like.

I will respond to PP and make my decision about what to do with the current situation but I will voice that a factory change/formula change will move me to seek another brand that still uses the current forumla.. if I can find it. Probably cote'darms.

Just to correct Vallejo is a paint manufacturer, set up in the USA but now based in Barcelona. They make paint from heavy body acrylics through hobby paints to custom airbrush paints similar to Wicked and many other types of acrylic and waterbased paint.


If you are worried about the formula changing you could try Coat D'arms or Wargames Foundry Paints as they are made in the same place, HMG Manchester UK as the original P3 paints.

Seriqolm wrote:
Just to correct Vallejo is a paint manufacturer, set up in the USA but now based in Barcelona. They make paint from heavy body acrylics through hobby paints to custom airbrush paints similar to Wicked and many other types of acrylic and waterbased paint.


If you are worried about the formula changing you could try Coat D'arms or Wargames Foundry Paints as they are made in the same place, HMG Manchester UK as the original P3 paints.

Correct on Vallejo, forgot that to they do make their own. Which is probably why Vallejo paints tend to be very consistent batch to batch. I've used them for a long time and the new paints I bought were pretty much the same as my 5 and 6 year old bottles were barring the occasional bad paint.

I've just found that they tend to generate a dry crust or skin on my we pallette. I like the coat d'arms paints I've had. A little harder to get ahold of.

Anyways callled and today they said they are not changing manufacturer. Shrug. They seemed eager to assure me of that.

I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Status according to them is that the new order will be in by about December. Like I said, that's a long lead time.

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Coat D'arms is owned by Black Hat Miniatures who purchased the line off of another company that took over the same paints GW used to source from HMG when they changed manufacturers, so its basically GW's old line of paints. The paint is made by HMG in Manchester, England. It says so on the pots. HMG also make Foundry and P3 paints, they are all very similar in formula just different colours.

Seriqolm wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Coat D'arms is owned by Black Hat Miniatures who purchased the line off of another company that took over the same paints GW used to source from HMG when they changed manufacturers, so its basically GW's old line of paints. The paint is made by HMG in Manchester, England. It says so on the pots. HMG also make Foundry and P3 paints, they are all very similar in formula just different colours.

So why the many month lead time? Inquiring minds are curious. This is unusual in the modern world, esp if Coat D'arms and Foundry are NOT showing the lead.

Probably someone on Privateer's end screwed up on ordering a restock. Not uncommon.

meatybtz wrote:

Seriqolm wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Coat D'arms is owned by Black Hat Miniatures who purchased the line off of another company that took over the same paints GW used to source from HMG when they changed manufacturers, so its basically GW's old line of paints. The paint is made by HMG in Manchester, England. It says so on the pots. HMG also make Foundry and P3 paints, they are all very similar in formula just different colours.

So why the many month lead time? Inquiring minds are curious. This is unusual in the modern world, esp if Coat D'arms and Foundry are NOT showing the lead.

Revamping an entire paint line takes a long time, just in terms of getting enough paint produced to get out to stores. A paint line will have lots of different SKUs, all needing to be produced in slightly different quantities but all needing to be available at the same time. There's quite a lot of logistics involved in the process, especially when the company you use isn't just producing paint for you. Keeping up with demand for a current line is much easier than creating a whole new one. In fact, keeping up with existing demand is why the new line will take so long.