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IDK what more you'd want it to do for letting you know model rules. At least as far as I'm concerned it brings up the full card at essentially the same size as the full card. I use it on my phone all the time for list building. I just think its limited as a player aid without a tablet.

I'm not sure what game aid you've found that works really well on a phone. I've had decent luck with Guild Ball, but that's largely due to the limited model selection. Most programs I've used either end up with a ton of scrolling or tapping around to work with the limited screen space.

Tablets have never been all that popular but I find them pretty worthwhile, particularly if you start using them for rulebooks over paper copies. I have it on my phone as well in case I need it, but most rulebooks really don't read well on a 6" page.

I'd want to be able to click on one of those symbols on a card that are tied to a rule and let me know what it is. I haven't played anything warmachine related for 4-5 years so I don't know what any of that stuff means. Instead you have to go to the dictionary, find the word that you think it is, click on it, wait for the PDF to load (and I have a high end phone) they try to read it in the PDF.

I'm sure the extra screen size of the tablet is quite nice but I'm not going to invest a couple hundred in even a low end one just for playing wargames which may only happen once a month for me.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I disagree that a tablet is needed if you design for a phone. You can tell warroom was made for tablets which was a bad idea as tablets really aren't that popular anymore yet everyone has a phone. Thinking about it none of my friends even have one outside of the cheap one for their kids.

So if I want to build a list I have to have the pdf open on my computer as warroom is crap for letting you know what a figure does. What a wonderful service I'm paying for.

If you're serious, get yourself a cheap arse tablet. I'll put my hands up and say I myself had a huge amount of personal pushback on this, but this is the way the wind is blowing in this industry. I picked up one for £50 and it serves me excellently for WMH, Malifaux et al.

War Room is good, most of the above things are user errors. I fail to see how clicking on an icon which literally takes you to the relevant rule in the rulebook is bad design, and even then those USRs are not that numerous and you can easily discern what each symbol means within time without having to look it up.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I disagree that a tablet is needed if you design for a phone. You can tell warroom was made for tablets which was a bad idea as tablets really aren't that popular anymore yet everyone has a phone. Thinking about it none of my friends even have one outside of the cheap one for their kids.

So if I want to build a list I have to have the pdf open on my computer as warroom is crap for letting you know what a figure does. What a wonderful service I'm paying for.

If you're serious, get yourself a cheap arse tablet. I'll put my hands up and say I myself had a huge amount of personal pushback on this, but this is the way the wind is blowing in this industry. I picked up one for £50 and it serves me excellently for WMH, Malifaux et al.

War Room is good, most of the above things are user errors. I fail to see how clicking on an icon which literally takes you to the relevant rule in the rulebook is bad design, and even then those USRs are not that numerous and you can easily discern what each symbol means within time without having to look it up.

I actually do have a tablet. It's a $1,200 one that none of these apps run on but hey, I've got steam and can play regular video games on it. My argument really is if they want people to be playing their games they need to make it easy to do so. Designing their app so the expensive screen you always carry around with you isn't ideal is a poor business decision. This hobby is already expensive enough. And most of my friends that play with me have no disposable income so that would also be me buying multiple tablets for them to use.

Also the UI doesn't work for everything when clicking on the card. I've been trying to build an Alexia based force and while I can click on the officer icon on the top of her card and get to the dictionary, which intern I can click to to goto the PDF, the thralls on the card none of their stuff is clickable nor is the symbol on the wytchfire that's the magic weapon effect if I remember correctly. So it's pretty random on what works and doesn't as it appears some icons aren't set up to do anything.

The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

...or you can just print out thr free copies of the cards you can download right off their website.

My buddy and I printed out our cards onto cheap cardstock, and purchased the mini rulebooks for $15 for the Hordes and Warmachine rules digest together.

You don't HAVE to spend hundreds on a new tablet, especially when I find the physical cards faster since you can quickly glance at them without breaking your attention to the game, or ever have to worry about battery life, since physical cards don't need electricity for you to read them.

And I pulled this from the X-Wing section, Privateer Press doesn't seem to be imploding anywhere near as this thread believes. As with any edition change, there will be people lost in the process, and new metas will pop up elsewhere.

In our store, which was a GW and X-Wing store... I haven't seem a game of 40k played in over two months, and haven't seen a game of AoS in at least twice that, with the X-Wing group not having shown their faces in half a year. If you want to play tabletop, it is Warmachine or Infinity now.

And I agree, the restic was a pretty poor material choice... But there has been less and less of it recently as many restic warjacks have been redone in HIPS plastic, and many units are made in metal/resin hybrid kits instead of restic now.

 AduroT wrote:
The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

This, and no longer producing cards, were big drawbacks to me, too.

I understand there are workarounds to both - but I shouldn't need to be resorting to a workaround to easily play a game. That is obviously going to lose you players =/

My understanding is that Malifaux 3rd edition will still have cards, too.

 RiTides wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
The rulebook being a pdf inside Warroom is really my biggest complaint. It just loads the thing rather slowly and clunky. The AoS app handles its PDFs much cleaner.

This, and no longer producing cards, were big drawbacks to me, too.

I understand there are workarounds to both - but I shouldn't need to be resorting to a workaround to easily play a game. That is obviously going to lose you players =/

My understanding is that Malifaux 3rd edition will still have cards, too.

I was upset when the announced that cards would no longer be coming with the models at first, until I realized it allows them to make faster changes to the models to try and provide better balance to the game. I wouldn't have to wait a whole year for something to be fixed since they can just update the app, and update the free online card database.

It also makes it much easier to know you have the most current card... Since when you download the cards to print out, it is the most current card.

I still would have preferred them to supply them with the models, but it keeps me from running into an issue I had at a Malifaux tournament a few years back. When I got to the store, I was planning in running my Guild... But five other players were running Guild as well, so I said screw it and decided to play my Gremlins that I hadn't touched in a while so I could keep it a bit more diverse. After my first round win, it turned out that some of the upgrades to Ophelia I was using was an old version. Thankfully it was a real casual environment, so the problem was addressed before my next round without me being DQ'd. But there had been little announcement online that the new Ophelia upgrade cards were tucked away in a new wave of 2nd edition faction decks... And that I was going to have to buy the whole deck when I just needed two cards.

Because come on, if it is too hard to print and cut out some free upgrade cards, I don't know what to say. 40k has you buying a $40 Codex and $60 rulebook that is generally out of date 2 weeks after it comes out, is further out of date with the twice a year big FAQs, and is out of date again with Chapter Approved. All of that requires you to either keep the PDFs on your phone or print them out, so you are running in to the same issue. Or, you have the ePub version of the 40k Codexes which also have their fair share of problems, and those cost money as well.

Would you have bought the Warmachine rulebook anyways? Because any app or user error or sluggishness with accessing the rules by clicking on the icon in the app is a moot point if you were going to own the big, or small physical rulebook. There is also many, many people who play both casually and competitively that have zero issues with using War Room. I don't personally use it for anything other than list building, and I haven't noticed a real advantage or disadvantage playing using my printed off and sleeved physical cards.

Further update relevant to privateer press.

No more no quarter.

http://privateerpress.com/no-quarter-prime/farewell-to-no-quarter-prime

Another ominous sign of decline, or privateer press keeping with the times?

Regardless - such a shame - NQ was a fantastic resource, and one I will genuinely miss. It had so much excellent content.

I’ve never bought a NQ magazine. It does make sense to me to no longer make a print magazine, when they’re shifting everything else to digital.

Subscription to online sources seems to be the way to go. Something like $25 a year gets you access to the living rulebook, cards, Chapter Approved... er... No Quarter... whatever content is relevant.

You could also tie that into Starter Boxes that give you X months of access. Or any product. It could be a way to encourage “original” sales rather than 2nd hand purchases.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I’ve never bought a NQ magazine. It does make sense to me to no longer make a print magazine, when they’re shifting everything else to digital.

Subscription to online sources seems to be the way to go. Something like $25 a year gets you access to the living rulebook, cards, Chapter Approved... er... No Quarter... whatever content is relevant.

You could also tie that into Starter Boxes that give you X months of access. Or any product. It could be a way to encourage “original” sales rather than 2nd hand purchases.

Ugh, I hope this doesn't go this way. Subscriptions are getting to be such a preadatory business practice. It's getting to the point where you no longer own anything at all, and every company is trying to talk you into paying money to them forever and hoping you'll just forget or be too lazy to cut your sub in lean years or if you lose interest.

I agree that I dislike the lack of ownership. Buuuut, in this case, you could print out your cards / rules / NQ articles, and if your sub expired, you just wouldn’t have access to more current content. In that way, it would be like having a paper codex that stays as-is until you buy the next codex.

For me, personally, I would enjoy having wider access to information, but can’t justify the expense of it. Whereas with an all inclusive subscription, or a buy models to gain all inclusive access type thing, I could have that.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I agree that I dislike the lack of ownership. Buuuut, in this case, you could print out your cards / rules / NQ articles, and if your sub expired, you just wouldn’t have access to more current content. In that way, it would be like having a paper codex that stays as-is until you buy the next codex.

For me, personally, I would enjoy having wider access to information, but can’t justify the expense of it. Whereas with an all inclusive subscription, or a buy models to gain all inclusive access type thing, I could have that.

So apart from subscription I would then have to pay more for getting them in print and end up with worse quality product...Not charmed at the idea.

No Quarter was still a window on everything related to Privateer Press. With the removal of Press Gangers, this move is a bad sign IMHO. It looks like another cost cut than anything else.

The point of No Quarter was not bringing more money with its sale in itself : it was a way to keep touch with their customers and was a source of inspiration for their favourite games (modelling/painting/collecting/gaming). It looks like Privateer Press is making another step in the Kirby Course full forward, from my point of view.

Remove of No Quarter and Press Gangers is bad sign for the player base. They seem to cut back costs even further. Let's see where that leads.

Decided to put this here rather than news and rumors, but a little Birdy told me that the P3 paints had an official restocking time horizon of 3 months, minimum, possibly longer.

Remember most paints are out of stock right now except those that are not favored or in limited use. What is expected of even more bizzare about this is they recently released some new paints.


Same Birdy told me that the blind box sale was a resounding success. I mean like huge. So money is not an issue. Wonder why the long lead time. Wife is in manufacturing and this kind of lead time is found in parts ordered from India. China tends to deliver faster turn around time.

Anyways my Birdy didn't answer my inquest into the details of the why's.

Still it is hard info. This info came about from official businesses with them not just a rummor but about fulfillment times.

According to r/warmachine they're in the middle of switching factories for the paint.

Oh no....my Tau depends on ordic olive

I find the P3 paints to be very good. Both for brushwork and into an airbrush. I tend to use them as my main paints but use GW for washes and the "technical paints".

As long as I can still get hold of them I don't really mind where they are manufactured.

Sunno wrote:
I find the P3 paints to be very good. Both for brushwork and into an airbrush. I tend to use them as my main paints but use GW for washes and the "technical paints".

As long as I can still get hold of them I don't really mind where they are manufactured.

There is the possibility that the paint is no longer the same as it was with the change of manufacturer.

I hope Skorne red is not effected to much by this, it is a funny light orange/red/brown and it took me long enough to find a red similar enough to the old GW Mechrite Red.

As long as the paint uses the same formula and is made to the same quality then it shouldn't be an issue beyond a bit of supply disruption. GW's issue when they changed paints wasn't just changing production facilities but the recipes and copyright tiles and such so it sparked a range of changes.

Of course there's always a risk of subtle shifts in colour happening.

The resounding success of the Mystery Box says a lot about how much customers are willing to pay for product.
If you can get almost an entire army for $60, there isn't many who would say no.

It still says a lot of what the perceived value of their models are.
I hope they can continue as I'd really hate may favourite paint disappear.

A change in manufacturers could mean a marked difference in pint quality, and it wouldn't be the first time the P3s had problems from a change in manufacturing.

From since I've initially posted here it's actually started to get a footing again

Players went from 20+ at local events during the end of MK2 down to 2-4 during the start of MK3 to an odd showing of 12+ players for events again

Yeah the factory shift has me severely worried. I've yet to see a production shift occur that did not markedly alter the paint.

The issue I see is this: paint has gotten a lot more expensive. Not just on your side but on the production side. Certain kinds of chemicals are up there and climbing as are certain formulations of pigments (huge in acrylics).

You almost NEVER get the same formulation when you shift factories, factories are "brands". They all have their production lines set up and that means x formula. Citadel does not make their own P3 does not, Vallejo does not, scale 76 does not.. and onward. NO ONE makes their own paint. They all source from certain factories.

The cost increases are what cause companies to shift factories.

P3 paints were something I was into explicitly because of the formula they were using, if that changes, then the properties will change and I will be back scanning through the brands to find the paints I want.

Skorn Red is a great Tomato Red, pretty rare color in this era. The behavior of the paints on my wet pallet is what caused me to brand shift towards P3 now only for them to also go through a reformulation.

This is beyond frustrating. GW paints in this edition of their naming nomenclature has shifted factories several times which is why the paints have gone from quite nice to jellied metallics and the like.

I will respond to PP and make my decision about what to do with the current situation but I will voice that a factory change/formula change will move me to seek another brand that still uses the current forumla.. if I can find it. Probably cote'darms.

Just to correct Vallejo is a paint manufacturer, set up in the USA but now based in Barcelona. They make paint from heavy body acrylics through hobby paints to custom airbrush paints similar to Wicked and many other types of acrylic and waterbased paint.


If you are worried about the formula changing you could try Coat D'arms or Wargames Foundry Paints as they are made in the same place, HMG Manchester UK as the original P3 paints.

Seriqolm wrote:
Just to correct Vallejo is a paint manufacturer, set up in the USA but now based in Barcelona. They make paint from heavy body acrylics through hobby paints to custom airbrush paints similar to Wicked and many other types of acrylic and waterbased paint.


If you are worried about the formula changing you could try Coat D'arms or Wargames Foundry Paints as they are made in the same place, HMG Manchester UK as the original P3 paints.

Correct on Vallejo, forgot that to they do make their own. Which is probably why Vallejo paints tend to be very consistent batch to batch. I've used them for a long time and the new paints I bought were pretty much the same as my 5 and 6 year old bottles were barring the occasional bad paint.

I've just found that they tend to generate a dry crust or skin on my we pallette. I like the coat d'arms paints I've had. A little harder to get ahold of.

Anyways callled and today they said they are not changing manufacturer. Shrug. They seemed eager to assure me of that.

I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Status according to them is that the new order will be in by about December. Like I said, that's a long lead time.

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Coat D'arms is owned by Black Hat Miniatures who purchased the line off of another company that took over the same paints GW used to source from HMG when they changed manufacturers, so its basically GW's old line of paints. The paint is made by HMG in Manchester, England. It says so on the pots. HMG also make Foundry and P3 paints, they are all very similar in formula just different colours.

Seriqolm wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
I've seriously been wondering about the status of the P3 paint. Out of stock everyplace I haven't even seen it in a store in ages. I've actually packed up my unopened bottles and I think I'm going to sell them off.

Coat 'd Arms is the current (previous? last? whatever) manufacturer. It's pretty obvious, the bottles are exactly the same, made in UK, etc. I've not found it explicitly stated anywhere, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

Vallejo is interesting. According to a conversation I had with Anne Foerster of Reaper, they used to primarily make paint used by artists doing cel shading for cartoons; when that industry went mostly digital, Vallejo turned to model paints to keep in business.

Coat D'arms is owned by Black Hat Miniatures who purchased the line off of another company that took over the same paints GW used to source from HMG when they changed manufacturers, so its basically GW's old line of paints. The paint is made by HMG in Manchester, England. It says so on the pots. HMG also make Foundry and P3 paints, they are all very similar in formula just different colours.

So why the many month lead time? Inquiring minds are curious. This is unusual in the modern world, esp if Coat D'arms and Foundry are NOT showing the lead.