Red__Thirst wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Stay well away from the discount boxes they tend to give you bad units

Decide if your planning to play defensively in a midboard castle

Or offensively in a scattered msu


You will want two characters as a starter a defensive list probably wants a bike captain with thunderhammer and storm shield and a sanguinary priest

An offensive list will probably go for a terminator or jump pack captain with thunderhammer but may exchange the storm shield for combi melta and probably a bike chaplain or astorath

Next you'll want 3 troops the defensive lot will want to mix infiltrators and incursors the offensive intercessors and assault intercessors but you cant really go wrong which ever primaris you put in the troop slot

A defensive army probably wants some eliminators plasma inceptor or hellblasters along with one or 2 redemptors or leviathan looking at about 25% of your army. For offensive I would be considering land speeder storms or a whirlwind for their utility strats with less firepower and a company champion

For the core of your army your looking at sanguinary guard vanguard veterans with storm shield and lightning claw and assault terminators

You can take extra characters but I wouldn't go above 4

I'll mention this in passing because I just recently stumbled upon it while list-building.

I have hit upon a 'utility' captain build that I really like. It's different, and can be tweaked a few different directions to suit personal taste. I'll be building out a model for it later on but on paper here's the build.

Blood Angels Captain with a Jump Pack
Wargear: Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol. I run the Visage of Death relic mask to give him -1 to hit in melee to aid survivability and it also turns off the enemy objective secured within 3". (Which is just fun IMO).
He's ST:7 with his sword, AP:-3, 2 damage, with a 2+/4++ save with -1 to hit in melee.

Now we get to the interesting part. I opt to use the WL trait Artisan of war, and Master-Craft the relic blade, giving it D:3, just like a thunder hammer but with AP:3 and no -1 to hit. I then use the stratagem to give my Captain a second WL trait, choosing The Emperor's Sword from the core marine book, giving him +1 ST (Relic blade is now ST:8) & a bonus attack on the charge, along with re-roll charge rolls. This build hits really hard, and has decent staying power in close combat. He swings six time on the charge, or seven times with Savage Echos active in the assault doctrine, at WS:2+, ST:8, AP:-3 and 3 Damage per attack with the ubiquitous +1 to wound we enjoy, meaning you're wounding most everything on a 2+. That's 18 potential damage, or 21 potential damage if you're in Assault Doctrine.

There are a few different options to choose from on this, depending on your preferences. You can go for a little less raw damage output and not master-craft the relic blade and instead give him adamantine mantle with artisan of war to net a 5+++ feel no pain for added staying power.

Or you can omit the storm shield for a ranged weapon and use artisan of war to give him artificer armor which will still give you a 2+ armor save and a 4++ from the Iron Halo. This is the least 'good' option for me, because you lose out on the D:3 relic blade to gain a pistol or combi-weapon, which you may only get to fire once or twice in a game.

Just some musings from me. Hopefully folks find them interesting, at least.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I don't disagree with your way approaching this but imo a Libby Dread warlord with angel exemplar taking iron resolve and gift of foresight seems the better choice . U get 4 + 1 (charge) + 1 (echoes) + 1-3 (Quickening) + 1 3+d3 (halberd) + 1 d6+2D melta shot on a T7 9W 3+ 6+++ -1D potentially smoke launchers too. U get 1 deny with potential 1 more power and a 2nd deny if you go chief Libby (a bit overpriced for my taste) but then you can throw more atcks or more survivability (5++) . All the above to rerolling 1sv 1hit AND 1woud (crazy value) EACH turn . U can use wisdom of the ancients too choosing between hits or wounds .

I prefer the Libby Dread cause it feels more flexible while killy , mine looks great and cause I run an ordo xenos CP farm battery inquisitor and love to throw strats on the Dread xD

Is the logic in running a Vanguard, avoiding the troop tax, maxing out the other slots?

2 HQ's, 5 elites, 2 FA, 2 HS

Avoiding that troop tax.

Razerous wrote:
Is the logic in running a Vanguard, avoiding the troop tax, maxing out the other slots?

2 HQ's, 5 elites, 2 FA, 2 HS

Avoiding that troop tax.

You can try it but I think our troops choices are critical components to succeeding at the 9th game.

You want to have assets that you can trade out on objectives without sacrificing a heavy hitter early on. Add that they are natively obsec and in the case of phobos, have access to guerilla tactics which is just a great utility strat for enabling multiple secondary scoring and I just think it makes sense to have at a minimum 2x5 troops. Their job isn't getting kills, it's scoring VP and they are quite good at it.

You can try substituting with some combination of Rites of War and the Visage of Death relic on your characters but I'm not sure it's enough.

Sobie wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Is the logic in running a Vanguard, avoiding the troop tax, maxing out the other slots?

2 HQ's, 5 elites, 2 FA, 2 HS

Avoiding that troop tax.

You can try it but I think our troops choices are critical components to succeeding at the 9th game.

You want to have assets that you can trade out on objectives without sacrificing a heavy hitter early on. Add that they are natively obsec and in the case of phobos, have access to guerilla tactics which is just a great utility strat for enabling multiple secondary scoring and I just think it makes sense to have at a minimum 2x5 troops. Their job isn't getting kills, it's scoring VP and they are quite good at it.

You can try substituting with some combination of Rites of War and the Visage of Death relic on your characters but I'm not sure it's enough.

The way I see it, what obsec unit could a strong 5man melee BA unit walk up to that it couldn't smash? Or if both were obsec, I doubt I'll have more-than 5-strong in any case.

So I can either have a weaker 5-man obsec unit that can smash well. Perhaps there may be more situations where I just reach an objective, or walk into a tank parking on an obective etc. Or I could have a more potent unit that isn't obsec with the aim to aim for straight elimination. And also aim to otherwise not contest (because they can't).

Just don't see how 2x5 man units will swing it. The same 2x5 man units could score and be hard hitting.

Looking for a bit more advice here everyone. I recently learned that a local store has a newbie-friendly 1k tournament coming up in a month, intended to introduce people new to 9th to the competitive scene. While I'm not looking to be hyper competitive, I am looking forward to dipping my toes into actually getting some games in for 9th, and this event sounds right up my alley (specifically billed as a non-competitive intro to tourneys). However, I'm very much still in the planning stages of my army, and I'll need to do some serious modelling to get ready to play a 1k game in a month. So, I'm looking for some advice on building a starter list!

I've got a variety of minis available to me, including the Indomitus box, 15 intercessors, 10 infiltrators/incursors, sanguinary guard, vanguard veterans, tactical marines, a librarian dreadnought, and the bits to make a wide variety of firstborn characters and other units. The only restrictions on listbuilding from the tourney are no more than 1 mini over 200pts.

What are some ideas for what to focus on to get me to 1000 points? I eventually intend to have loads of options available to me, but with almost nothing fully painted yet I'm a bit bewildered about how to even narrow my options down (especially since most of my theorizing has been about creating a 2000 point list), and I need to start painting ASAP if I want to be ready.

Any help or advice would be very, very appreciated!

Edit: The tourney pack also specifies that we'll be playing 3 missions from Chapter Approved 2020: Mission 22 Ascension, Mission 11 Crossfire, and Mission 32 Show of Force. All played on 44x30 battlefield

Razerous wrote:

Sobie wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Is the logic in running a Vanguard, avoiding the troop tax, maxing out the other slots?

2 HQ's, 5 elites, 2 FA, 2 HS

Avoiding that troop tax.

You can try it but I think our troops choices are critical components to succeeding at the 9th game.

You want to have assets that you can trade out on objectives without sacrificing a heavy hitter early on. Add that they are natively obsec and in the case of phobos, have access to guerilla tactics which is just a great utility strat for enabling multiple secondary scoring and I just think it makes sense to have at a minimum 2x5 troops. Their job isn't getting kills, it's scoring VP and they are quite good at it.

You can try substituting with some combination of Rites of War and the Visage of Death relic on your characters but I'm not sure it's enough.

The way I see it, what obsec unit could a strong 5man melee BA unit walk up to that it couldn't smash? Or if both were obsec, I doubt I'll have more-than 5-strong in any case.

So I can either have a weaker 5-man obsec unit that can smash well. Perhaps there may be more situations where I just reach an objective, or walk into a tank parking on an obective etc. Or I could have a more potent unit that isn't obsec with the aim to aim for straight elimination. And also aim to otherwise not contest (because they can't).

Just don't see how 2x5 man units will swing it. The same 2x5 man units could score and be hard hitting.

I see what you are saying. I'll try to expand a little bit on my earlier post because I think obsec is just a part of the benefits of having troops in your list.

First, you need some sacrificial pawns to draw your opponent's assets out where they can be hit. You don't want to have to throw your Sanguinary Guard into a squad of 10 guardsmen to clear them off the point just to have them exposed to the demolisher tank commander sitting in your opponent's backfield. They will go down to that shooting just as easy as that cheaper 5 man tactical marine or intercessor squad. Trading assets is an unavoidable part of the game and you want to be trading up as often as possible or at least mitigating your bad trades to the extent you can.

Likewise, if you have intercessors on the point first, your opponent will need to pick between killing the cheaper bodies scoring you primaries or the more threatening damage dealers that are either moving up the board to threaten their backfield or sitting in or behind cover waiting to counter attack whatever they push into midboard to contest. SM troops have just enough durability that incidental fire won't typically be enough to clear them so your opponent will feel pressured to throw something with real killing power at them.

Second, you need to have enough assets to reliably hold and contest 3 objectives all the way through turn 5 in order to score 40+ VP on primary regardless of mission. Super elite armies have fewer bodies and tend to struggle to sustain that kind board presence due to attrition if they aren't designed for insane durability like Deathwing or Deathguard.

Third, there are several great abilities and strat support that our troops have. Infiltrators/Incursors have concealed positions which let you set up screening units further up the board, or position for an early objective grab to help score domination in the first turn. They can also guerilla tactics which is just stupid good for enabling movement around the board to score secondaries and snag open objectives. Those are valuable tools that leave you with options for scoring VP that aren't necessarily dependent on clearing your opponent's army off the board.

Something like two 5 man squads of incursors gives you two squads with the ability to jump around the board deploying scramblers, holding points, screening out deepstrikers, engaging on all fronts, linebreaking, relentless assaulting - all ways of collecting VP without being super killy. That frees up your elites to do play their dedicated role as killers and wrecking balls. Sure, the 210pts for those incursor squads buys you another 7 man Sang Guard squad, but if they are running around and deploying scramblers or camping an objective at the periphery, they're not killing anything anyway and they can only be in one place at one time.

Just my thoughts. There's obviously no harm in experimenting with playing no troops to see where it excels or struggles.

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Greetings brothers, I'm new here and I'm between the others, also a Blood Angels player.
Now with the came out of Drukhari how do you set your army for try to fight them?
I figured out we need ti crack their veichels but its so difficult to manage all of those raiders, I know we should kill for one at a times, break It with Fire then charge and try to eliminate passengers but I think we lack option for that.
I'm trying a double team of eradicator, supported by a couple of ATV and a team of 5 inceptor, do you think its enought for the job?
Wich secondary missions you suggest against them?

I haven't had chance to play the new Dark Eldar but my thinking is that attack bikes with multi melta would be a stronger pick than Eradicators because you will need to their mobility to open up shooting angles on the Raiders. A smart DE player is going to park them behind obscuring terrain Turn 1 and make use of their awesome mobility to strike in waves from Turn 2 onwards.

I suspect they will try and force you to make bad trades fighting their Wyche squads and other hyper efficient units in melee.

I think injecting both fight first and fight last into your list is going to be necessary to give you some tools to counter all the fight last and fight first they have themselves. A librarian with veil of time and whirlwind to use the suppressing fire strat can help set up a fight activation order in your favor for a critical fight.

Generally, indirect fire seems like it could be an interesting tool against them. The are only T3 with weak armor so a whirlwind castellan launcher can hurt them. Even thundefire cannons which few BA players actually have in their collection might be interesting because they have the Tremor shells strat to halve movement and subtract 2 from both advance and charge rolls. That might be a great option to buy you some time against an army that has 8" movement on their infantry and can advance and charge. Granted, it doesn't work on units with fly but hitting whatever tumbles out of those transports may save your inceptors/attack bikes/eradicators that took down the transport from a swift death.

Secondaries I would consider:

Deploy scramblers - this is difficult for anybody to prevent collecting the 10 VP. A Dark Eldar player isn't going to be laying down screens in their backfield all game to keep you from using upon wings of fire/guerilla tactics/deep strike/strategic reserves to get into their deployment to get a scrambler off. The mid board and home deployment should be fairly straightforward to take care of early in the game

Linebreaker - Normally I would prefer BA's Relentless Assault to linebreaker but DE are on of the few armies that can more than match us at pressing into the opponents deployment and being happy to be there. They want to be up in our face and they have cheaper and more plentiful assets and I don't want to have to beat them at their own game. Line breaker just takes two units to drop down in a corner and stay alive to collect their points. Synergizes with Deploy Scramblers.

Assassinate - Depends on how many characters are in their list but otherwise this one's pretty straightforward. DE like their characters to get stuck in the fight especially since they are so cheap. This might force them to be more considerate about committing those characters to the fight or at least give you a shot at a consolation prize when sacrificing your Sang Guard to melee blender. Possibly a trap pick though.

Sadly, I don't think Oath of Moment is that great of an option with the leadership shenanigans DE have with things like grisly trophies and the fact that I don't want to be anchored to the middle of the board where I'll just get pummeled and cleared off.

Would be interested to hear some thoughts from anybody who has actually fought this battle though.

 Porphyrius wrote:

What are some ideas for what to focus on to get me to 1000 points? I eventually intend to have loads of options available to me, but with almost nothing fully painted yet I'm a bit bewildered about how to even narrow my options down (especially since most of my theorizing has been about creating a 2000 point list), and I need to start painting ASAP if I want to be ready.

Any help or advice would be very, very appreciated!

Edit: The tourney pack also specifies that we'll be playing 3 missions from Chapter Approved 2020: Mission 22 Ascension, Mission 11 Crossfire, and Mission 32 Show of Force. All played on 44x30 battlefield

At 1000 points, you are looking for units that have a degree of flexibility to them. You aren't going to have the points to include the perfect answer to every situation. The good news is that the smaller board size plays to our mobility so a melee unit like Sanguinary Guard can quickly get into and make mess of your opponents backfield where they might be hiding juicy targets if the situation calls for it.

All those missions are hold 1, hold 2, hold more. As long as you can babysit your DZ objective effectively and stick a really durable unit on a second point that will hold it until turn 5, you shouldn't have any issue maxing the primary on these missions.

You are less likely to need to spam melta with the single 200pt model restriction however this doesn't prevent somebody from taking Mortarion who will just kill everything he touches and never die at 1000 pts. Fortunately, that won't leave the DG many other tools to play the mission so make sure you have stuff in your list that allows you score without necessarily engaging in fights for occasions like this.

You'll need an answer for horde type units. A 20 man of Necron Warriors, or large squad of Poxwalkers.

You'll need something that can stand up to elite infantry like Custodes or Deathshroud.

You'll probably face a lot of Space Marines so having options to kill a T4 3+ 2W efficiently is probably a good idea.

Fight first/fight last rules are all over the place with the new codices and are especially relevant for melee focused armies like BA. You'll probably want to have options in your list that allow you to interact with these effects.

My list might look something like this:


Patrol Detachment, 1000pts, 4CP

Librarian [7 PL, 145pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura), Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Force sword, Jump Pack, Psychic Mastery, Storm bolter, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Visage of Death

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Quake Bolts

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 150pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 165pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

Warlord Librarian supports the Sang Guard with Psychic Fortress, gives them their heirs of azkellon bonus, provides 2 denies, and has the great utility powers of null zone for messing up invuln elites and Veil of Time for fight first and re-roll charges.

Sanguinary Priest primarily baby sits the Blade Guard to make them a menacing and durable point holder but has a jump pack to give him the movement to get to around as needed. Visage of Death will help with point control against MSU obsec units. Can trigger assault doctrine early to benefit either Blade Guard or Sang Guard.

Incursors - Guerilla tactics strat. Also decent in a scrap as BA. Most likely my Deploy Scramblers guys. Good for Engage on all Fronts or Relentless Assault secondaries.

Blade Guard - Tough point holders. Combo of Transhuman and Sanguinary Priest should keep them around for awhile. Sargeant has Quake Bolts for melee re-rolls as a partial substitute for no captain. Lend themselves to Oath of Moment scoring on the Ascension mission.

Sanguinary Guard - my hammer. Around to chase down and kill whatever scares me most. Will eviscerate marines, have enough shooting and fighting to clear almost anything barring DG terminators or similar off a point in a single turn. The axes are just a hedge against T5 to stay wounding on 2's against tougher infantry as I really don't want them getting bogged down.

Inceptors - blast to wreck big squads, plasma to kill marines and light vehicle, no re-rolls for overcharging sucks but have to make cuts somewhere. Good for engage on all fronts.

Whirlwind - blast for horde and suppressing fire for fight last and no overwatch. Happy to sit on my DZ objective if necessary later in the game, probably after I redeploy my incursors using guerilla tactics.

Interesting, thanks for the input. Some of that list is definitey along the lines of what I was thinking; Incursors, Sang Priest, Bladeguard, and Sang Guard are all in there more or less as you’ve suggested. I wasn’t thinking of a librarian (mainly because I don’t have a good mini for one yet) and instead was planning on a smash cap with Foresight and Icon of the Angel. I was also thinking Eradicators for some anti-heavy. And maybe the biggest change, I was mulling over using a large squad of auto bolt rifle Intercessors to run around for objectives and do some horde clearing. What would you think about a list like this? Could this more or less work, even if maybe less effectively than what you posted? I’m not expecting to run the table or anything, but I also don’t want to get embarrassed on account of objectively terrible choices.


++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [62 PL, 1,000pts, 4CP] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels Successor, Custom Chapter

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Icon of The Angel, Jump Pack, Storm shield, Stratagem: Honoured by the Arx Angelicum, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, 135pts, -1CP]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 190pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Auto Bolt Rifle
. 8x Intercessor: 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 145pts]
. 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted power sword, 3x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Neo-volkite pistol

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 150pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

++ Total: [62 PL, 1,000pts, 4CP] ++

 Porphyrius wrote:
Interesting, thanks for the input. Some of that list is definitey along the lines of what I was thinking; Incursors, Sang Priest, Bladeguard, and Sang Guard are all in there more or less as you’ve suggested. I wasn’t thinking of a librarian (mainly because I don’t have a good mini for one yet) and instead was planning on a smash cap with Foresight and Icon of the Angel. I was also thinking Eradicators for some anti-heavy. And maybe the biggest change, I was mulling over using a large squad of auto bolt rifle Intercessors to run around for objectives and do some horde clearing. What would you think about a list like this? Could this more or less work, even if maybe less effectively than what you posted? I’m not expecting to run the table or anything, but I also don’t want to get embarrassed on account of objectively terrible choices.


++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [62 PL, 1,000pts, 4CP] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels Successor, Custom Chapter

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Icon of The Angel, Jump Pack, Storm shield, Stratagem: Honoured by the Arx Angelicum, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, 135pts, -1CP]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 190pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Auto Bolt Rifle
. 8x Intercessor: 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 145pts]
. 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted power sword, 3x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Neo-volkite pistol

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 150pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

++ Total: [62 PL, 1,000pts, 4CP] ++

I think that list can definitely work. All of those units are good. As long as you have a good idea of the role each plays in securing you VP, then it can work.

I don't think my list is necessarily any better than what you've gone with there. Having a large intercessor squad gives you a big block of wounds to sit on a point and lets your blade guard act more as a counter-charge unit. My play style tends to favor utility HQs versus damage dealers but I've seen plenty of smash captain builds put in work.

I feel naked without a whirlwind these days though

Can you combat squad 10man Sanguinary Guard & 10man Vanguard Vets?

Razerous wrote:
Can you combat squad 10man Sanguinary Guard & 10man Vanguard Vets?

Vets yes, Guard no.

for the above 1k discussion, we play highlander but anyway my list performs well..

primaris master chappie on bike
sang priest master w/ JP

incursors

5 sang guard
6 van vets w/ JP, LC&SS, relic blade & quake bolts on sgt

plasma inceptors

eradicators

this is for drukhari and DG meta. dunno how I will adjust it for the new admech, but at 2k we have better chance anyways

Xirax wrote:
for the above 1k discussion, we play highlander but anyway my list performs well..

primaris master chappie on bike
sang priest master w/ JP

incursors

5 sang guard
6 van vets w/ JP, LC&SS, relic blade & quake bolts on sgt

plasma inceptors

eradicators

this is for drukhari and DG meta. dunno how I will adjust it for the new admech, but at 2k we have better chance anyways

I played almost the same list two days ago against necron, the change between mine and yours was using a 5 men death Company squad with jp & 3 thunder hammer, I gave to the chaplain the rites of war trait for add more objective secured squads to the list and the visage of death for shut off the enemies ones.
It was a good match ended with a draw for a mine little error of valuation.
Next time will go better.

Am I the only one who so disappointed in BA stratas?

i think we have like maybe 4 good stratas and they aren't THAT good either.
unbridled ardour, red rampage, upon wings of fire and chalice overflow.
That sad is our collection of stratas.

We should at least got a advance + charge strata or 3D6 charge strata...

I'm building a 1k list to.
is the baal predator a valid option
this is my current list
had outriders before but want to try something more heavy:

Sobie wrote:

Phoenix Lord wrote:
Greetings brothers, I'm new here and I'm between the others, also a Blood Angels player.
Now with the came out of Drukhari how do you set your army for try to fight them?
I figured out we need ti crack their veichels but its so difficult to manage all of those raiders, I know we should kill for one at a times, break It with Fire then charge and try to eliminate passengers but I think we lack option for that.
I'm trying a double team of eradicator, supported by a couple of ATV and a team of 5 inceptor, do you think its enought for the job?
Wich secondary missions you suggest against them?

I haven't had chance to play the new Dark Eldar but my thinking is that attack bikes with multi melta would be a stronger pick than Eradicators because you will need to their mobility to open up shooting angles on the Raiders. A smart DE player is going to park them behind obscuring terrain Turn 1 and make use of their awesome mobility to strike in waves from Turn 2 onwards.

I suspect they will try and force you to make bad trades fighting their Wyche squads and other hyper efficient units in melee.

I think injecting both fight first and fight last into your list is going to be necessary to give you some tools to counter all the fight last and fight first they have themselves. A librarian with veil of time and whirlwind to use the suppressing fire strat can help set up a fight activation order in your favor for a critical fight.

Generally, indirect fire seems like it could be an interesting tool against them. The are only T3 with weak armor so a whirlwind castellan launcher can hurt them. Even thundefire cannons which few BA players actually have in their collection might be interesting because they have the Tremor shells strat to halve movement and subtract 2 from both advance and charge rolls. That might be a great option to buy you some time against an army that has 8" movement on their infantry and can advance and charge. Granted, it doesn't work on units with fly but hitting whatever tumbles out of those transports may save your inceptors/attack bikes/eradicators that took down the transport from a swift death.

Secondaries I would consider:

Deploy scramblers - this is difficult for anybody to prevent collecting the 10 VP. A Dark Eldar player isn't going to be laying down screens in their backfield all game to keep you from using upon wings of fire/guerilla tactics/deep strike/strategic reserves to get into their deployment to get a scrambler off. The mid board and home deployment should be fairly straightforward to take care of early in the game

Linebreaker - Normally I would prefer BA's Relentless Assault to linebreaker but DE are on of the few armies that can more than match us at pressing into the opponents deployment and being happy to be there. They want to be up in our face and they have cheaper and more plentiful assets and I don't want to have to beat them at their own game. Line breaker just takes two units to drop down in a corner and stay alive to collect their points. Synergizes with Deploy Scramblers.

Assassinate - Depends on how many characters are in their list but otherwise this one's pretty straightforward. DE like their characters to get stuck in the fight especially since they are so cheap. This might force them to be more considerate about committing those characters to the fight or at least give you a shot at a consolation prize when sacrificing your Sang Guard to melee blender. Possibly a trap pick though.

Sadly, I don't think Oath of Moment is that great of an option with the leadership shenanigans DE have with things like grisly trophies and the fact that I don't want to be anchored to the middle of the board where I'll just get pummeled and cleared off.

Would be interested to hear some thoughts from anybody who has actually fought this battle though.

Thanks for yours thougths, I guess se will sede some changes with the new GT missions, maybe not in the Drukhari side, but instead we could see new secondaries, and some points changes for us.

Hey all,

I'm getting into Blood Angels as I got a bunch of broken or damaged models from a friend that I'm restoring and based on what I have Sobie and NexAddo gave me good advice on the below list for 1500pts. For expanding to 2000pts I was thinking of adding a third attack bike, a second squad of sanguinary guard, a razorback with twin heavy bolter for the tac squad and another HQ but I wasn't sure if I should take a captain, a librarian, a librarian dreadnought, or the sanguinor. Any ideas what HQ would be the best fit or any minor tweaks to the list (without introducing primaris as I'm trying to keep it all firstborn barring primaris vehicles since those don't skew the scale for me as much)

Krull wrote:Am I the only one who so disappointed in BA stratas?

i think we have like maybe 4 good stratas and they aren't THAT good either.
unbridled ardour, red rampage, upon wings of fire and chalice overflow.
That sad is our collection of stratas.

We should at least got a advance + charge strata or 3D6 charge strata...

I'm building a 1k list to.
is the baal predator a valid option
this is my current list
had outriders before but want to try something more heavy:

Spoiler:

+++ Blood Angels 1K (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [49 PL, 3CP, 997pts] +++

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels

Battle Size: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Captain: 5. Gift of Foresight, Jump Pack, Relic blade, Rites of War, Storm shield, Stratagem: Angel Exemplar, Visage of Death, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest: Artificer Armour, Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad: Bolt rifle
4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Plasma pistol

+ Elites +

Redemptor Dreadnought: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack
Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield

+ Heavy Support +

Baal Predator: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
(https://battlescribe.net)

I'd hesitate to put a Baal in that particular 1000pt list. You already have a lot of anti-infantry via your Vanguard Vets and Redemptor and the small board size makes a vehicle that can be tagged pretty easily probably more of liability than its worth. Sadly, the Baal is probably less durable than a squad of outriders anyway because a lot of things wounding a squad of T5 outriders on a 3+ or better are probably going to still be wounding a T7 on a 3+ and with the outriders you at least have transhuman physiology to help. A unit of outriders also have the same number of total wounds as a Baal with the benefit of protecting against damage overflow when a multi-damage attack overkills a model in the unit.

If you are bored with the outriders though, mix it up and enjoy it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Hey all,

I'm getting into Blood Angels as I got a bunch of broken or damaged models from a friend that I'm restoring and based on what I have Sobie and NexAddo gave me good advice on the below list for 1500pts. For expanding to 2000pts I was thinking of adding a third attack bike, a second squad of sanguinary guard, a razorback with twin heavy bolter for the tac squad and another HQ but I wasn't sure if I should take a captain, a librarian, a librarian dreadnought, or the sanguinor. Any ideas what HQ would be the best fit or any minor tweaks to the list (without introducing primaris as I'm trying to keep it all firstborn barring primaris vehicles since those don't skew the scale for me as much)

Spoiler:

++ Vanguard Detachment

+ HQ +

Chaplain [6 PL, 105pts]:
Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, canticle of hate

Sanguinary Priest
Chainsword (teeth of terra or should I go for icon of the angel?), Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Warlord: rites of war

+ Troops +

-5x Tactical Marines
grav cannon or heavy bolter for the mortal wounds strat?

-5x Tactical Marines


+ Elites +

-5x Death Company Marines
jump packs, chainswords, 3 with hammers

-5x Death Company Marines
jump packs, chainswords
.
-5xSanguinary Guard
(a mix of sword and axe unfortunately)
.
-5x Assault Terminators
thunder hammers/shields

-5x scouts
ccw/bolt pistols

Dedicated Transport

-land speeder storm (Sobie reccomended a whirlwhind for the fight last strat but since I don't have one yet I was thinking of taking the landspeeder storm and scout squad to use the -1 to hit and no overwatch strat to protect my melee troops or just to grab objectives)

+ Fast Attack +

-Attack Bike Squad
Multi-melta

-Attack Bike Squad
Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

-5x Devastators
4x multimeltas, Armorium Cherub

If you haven't factored in the CA2021 points changes, you might have to do some tweaking again. Chief Apothecary upgrade went up 20 pts, attack bikes went up 10 pts, and Sanguinary Guard went up 2 pts a model.

My suggestion for an HQ character is that if you don't have a specific job in your list that their buffs or a particular relic or warlord trait are required for, consider spending the points on another non-HQ unit instead.

For example, dropping 130pts on JP captain with shield and relic sword to run with your Sanguinary Guard will give them re-roll 1s and adds his 5A in melee. If he's the warlord, then that gives them +1 to hit as well. That all sounds great, but consider that you could spend that 130 points on another 4 man of Sanguinary Guard that will give you another 16 attacks on the charge. In all likelihood, you'll be running another character nearby like Librarian for a 5++ or your Sanguinary Priest for Blood Chalice and heal/revives that can act as warlord anyway so they will still have that +1 to hit. You can run that 4 man as a separate squad to give you a more distributed board threat or fill out a big squad but either way, the captain buff doesn't necessarily equate to a better outcome over buying more bodies of what you would have him buff.

Now if you are running something like a big block of plasma inceptors that you want to supercharge everytime they fire, those re-roll 1's take on added importance and suddenly that captain might be critical.

I'd go with Icon over teeth on the Priest btw. He lacks the statline to make a great fighter and I want him to avoid getting KO'd in combat so Teeth would be wasted on him 95% of the time the way I play him whereas Icon would get use guaranteed and with a much bigger potential pay off.

Not an HQ, but you might want to look at Sanguinary Ancient with the Wrath of Baal relic banner. He's getting a points decrease and that banner will give all your jump pack units within 6" another 2" of movement on top of the standard chapter banner benefits. Something worth considering if you are going to run a lot of DC and SG or VV.

Oof, yeah with the points changes I'm 35pts over with my 1500pt list so I'll probably drop one attack bike and use the remaining 30pts to buy some weapons for the tac squads. And ah that makes sense, teeth of terra doesn't make the priest good enough to throw into combat aggressively and he's more valuable buffing my troops.

I like the sanguinary ancient idea a lot actually, and that gives me an excuse to convert one up! Since I'm running 20 jump pack infantry it definitely seems worth it to make them all faster and he can pack a decent punch himself.

That means taking into account the points changes, to go to 2K pts I would add a squad of 5 sanguinary guard, a second attack bike, the sanguinary ancient with the relic banner and a power fist, and a twin heavy bolter razorback that either a squad of tacticals or the devs can ride in. That being said, at 130pts for 2 attack bikes, at this point I'm wondering if I would be better off replacing them with another dev squad or a tac squad with a heavy weapon.

 TheArchmagos wrote:


That means taking into account the points changes, to go to 2K pts I would add a squad of 5 sanguinary guard, a second attack bike, the sanguinary ancient with the relic banner and a power fist, and a twin heavy bolter razorback that either a squad of tacticals or the devs can ride in. That being said, at 130pts for 2 attack bikes, at this point I'm wondering if I would be better off replacing them with another dev squad or a tac squad with a heavy weapon.

Sorry, attack bikes only went up 5pts so 120pts for 2. Got my wires crossed in my earlier post.

I personally think the 14" movement with no heavy weapon penalty on the MM shots is still a utility worth having over another foot slogging heavy weapons squad. With all the terrain my group plays with, it sucks trying to move a dev squad around to open up firing angles while suffering the movement penalty the whole time.

So I'm thinking about starting up my BA again after over half a decade gone from 40k. I wanna make an All-Primaris army (yes, I've read that BA are probably the WORST chapter to do this, but I like the models and wanna future-proof my army).

So question: In the Elites slot, Bladeguard vs DC Intercessors? Bladeguard look like they'll murder anything elite while DC I look better for smallfrys. But then, wouldn't just regular Assault Intercessor's work better for that? I really want DC I in some capacity but just from a quick glance it looks like Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors outperform them in every way except survivability.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:


So question: In the Elites slot, Bladeguard vs DC Intercessors? Bladeguard look like they'll murder anything elite while DC I look better for smallfrys. But then, wouldn't just regular Assault Intercessor's work better for that? I really want DC I in some capacity but just from a quick glance it looks like Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors outperform them in every way except survivability.

I agree with your assessment. As is the case with the Veteran intercessors, the points premium mixed with the what you lose (obsec, fight twice strat, ability to perform actions because DC) all make DC Intercessors unattractive options. You are still locked into the restrictive loadouts of the standard intercessors so no advantage there either. 6" Forlorn Fury isn't very attractive versus the 12" move on offer from the JP DC.

I'd consider putting JP's on the primaris models and running them as standard DC. Future proof with some easy magnetization and enjoy the current rules with primaris models. As long as you aren't mixing DC intercessors and regulars in the same game (no reason to), there is no opportunity for confusion. I think we'll be waiting a long time for the old DC kit and datasheet to be killed off.

So I'm gonna jump back into the 40k game after a 7+ year absence. Was gonna jump back in last year but the COVID lockdowns hit the US literally a week after I bought a crapton of paints and models and I ended up having to sell them all :-(.



Anyway, gonna go back to my old Blood Angels since they were my old favorites from 5e. I wanna do All-Primaris since I want to future-proof my army and clearly they are the new Golden Child for the foreseeable future.



I want to build my army around Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard Vets, since they're both fluffy and very powerful units with BA's rules right now. What else should I consider to shore up the my army? I have anti-horde and anti-elite infantry covered well with Assault Int. and Bladeguards I would think, so I probably need to work on good anti-vehicle and anti-MC. I would think perhaps a some of the new Primaris vehicles might help there? Or perhaps the new eradicator unit???

Eradicators are a good choice to have at the moment and I've just got 3 myself. I would consider heavy hellblasters or some plasmaceptors for the roles you are looking to fill. I think with the last points drop the gladiator tanks might be decent but I've not really looked since the changes.
I'm trying to go all primaris but as others will tell you it's pretty boring as BA.
I also think the assault intercessors need some kind of other troops with them like incursors or the other intercessors to hold objectives while the assault ones clear others of units.
Hope this helps.

Anti-tank duty in primaris only armies, my top 3 would be Eradicators, Redemptor Dread with Macro Plasma, Melta ATVs. The Eradicators have crazy high damage output but can be screened and are slow, the Redemptor is more of a Swiss army knife that can flex into anti-tank if needed and can beat down monsters in combat, and the ATVs have the mobility to get around the board and into firing range of things that are trying to hide from them.

The storm speeders are still a little bit too expensive for my tastes without offering substantial value over cheaper options like attack bikes or ATVs and generally I don't think BA abilities allow us to get consistent results from the other armor options like Gladiators but I'm sure you can find a spot in 2000pt list for one or the other without hampering your list.

You might consider investing in an Impulsor or two to shift your intercessors and Bladeguard around the board with some haste.

I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

What point level are you building towards? A battalion in a 2000pt list should give you plenty of elite slots to fit all the bladeguard and redemptors you need, I'd think. That's like 6 slots to play with.

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

What point level are you building towards? A battalion in a 2000pt list should give you plenty of elite slots to fit all the bladeguard and redemptors you need, I'd think. That's like 6 slots to play with.

2000 is always what I've built towards since I started 40k. But apparently in 9e games can go up to 3000 now?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

What point level are you building towards? A battalion in a 2000pt list should give you plenty of elite slots to fit all the bladeguard and redemptors you need, I'd think. That's like 6 slots to play with.

2000 is always what I've built towards since I started 40k. But apparently in 9e games can go up to 3000 now?

I dont think many play 3000pts. 2000 is still the most popular.

Just to illustrate that it's not an either/or decision between BGV and Redemptors, I drafted up a quick primaris only 2000 point list with a techmarine and 2 redemptors in it as well as the other elements you want to build around. It's not 100% optimized of course, but I think it's certainly playable.

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

What point level are you building towards? A battalion in a 2000pt list should give you plenty of elite slots to fit all the bladeguard and redemptors you need, I'd think. That's like 6 slots to play with.

2000 is always what I've built towards since I started 40k. But apparently in 9e games can go up to 3000 now?

I dont think many play 3000pts. 2000 is still the most popular.

Just to illustrate that it's not an either/or decision between BGV and Redemptors, I drafted up a quick primaris only 2000 point list with a techmarine and 2 redemptors in it as well as the other elements you want to build around. It's not 100% optimized of course, but I think it's certainly playable.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [103 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 105pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Icon of The Angel, Warlord
. Heavy bolt pistol, Master-crafted power sword and Relic shield: Master-crafted power sword, Relic Shield

Primaris Techmarine [5 PL, 100pts]: Chapter Command: Master of the Forge

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Quake Bolts

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [14 PL, 300pts]: 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

+ Dedicated Transport +

Impulsor [7 PL, 125pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

Impulsor [7 PL, 125pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

[b]++ Total: [103 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts]

Hey wow, thanks! Yeah that's more or less exactly the kind of army I want to field at some point! Only thing is I think I'd swap out the Apoth for a Bladeguard Ancient since they're tanky enough as is and I absolutely want to make sure they murder whatever it is they charge.

Also I want to find a way to equip my Assault Int. Sergeants with thudnerhammers for when they're inevitably set upon by any sort of elite troops/MCs. So maybe have only 3 Inceptors or something?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Sobie wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I REALLY want to run a couple Redemptor Dreads backup up by a Primaris Techmarine, but they compete with Bladeguard in the Elites slot.

Guess I will go with Eradicators for now.

What point level are you building towards? A battalion in a 2000pt list should give you plenty of elite slots to fit all the bladeguard and redemptors you need, I'd think. That's like 6 slots to play with.

2000 is always what I've built towards since I started 40k. But apparently in 9e games can go up to 3000 now?

I dont think many play 3000pts. 2000 is still the most popular.

Just to illustrate that it's not an either/or decision between BGV and Redemptors, I drafted up a quick primaris only 2000 point list with a techmarine and 2 redemptors in it as well as the other elements you want to build around. It's not 100% optimized of course, but I think it's certainly playable.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [103 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 105pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Icon of The Angel, Warlord
. Heavy bolt pistol, Master-crafted power sword and Relic shield: Master-crafted power sword, Relic Shield

Primaris Techmarine [5 PL, 100pts]: Chapter Command: Master of the Forge

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Quake Bolts

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [14 PL, 300pts]: 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt

+ Dedicated Transport +

Impulsor [7 PL, 125pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

Impulsor [7 PL, 125pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

[b]++ Total: [103 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts]

Hey wow, thanks! Yeah that's more or less exactly the kind of army I want to field at some point! Only thing is I think I'd swap out the Apoth for a Bladeguard Ancient since they're tanky enough as is and I absolutely want to make sure they murder whatever it is they charge.

Also I want to find a way to equip my Assault Int. Sergeants with thudnerhammers for when they're inevitably set upon by any sort of elite troops/MCs. So maybe have only 3 Inceptors or something?

I think with the new points on plasma inceptors, cutting 1 guy will just about pay for all those thunder hammers, yep.

Normally, I'd balk at spending 60 points on thunder hammers for 3 intercessor sargeants versus something like DC with jump packs but given your primaris only restriction, I think that's a fairly defensible trade.

Yo guys I'm running a blood angels successor chapter and had my first game against death guard the other night.

I run 2 squads of death company assault intercessors just on foot and they were pretty disappointing, slogged all the way across the board getting smashed with fire and hardly made and impact. Thinking of putting them into reserve for next game and then having 10 DC intercessors and 10 Sanguinary guard arriving would be a seriously nasty turn for my opponent to deal with.

Oh also.... Sanguinary guard are SO GOOD!

Yeah, Death Company Assault Intercessors either need to be outflanking, or in a transport. And even the transport ain't all that.

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Yeah, Death Company Assault Intercessors either need to be outflanking, or in a transport. And even the transport ain't all that.

Yeah it was a good learning experience for me to be honest, I'm used to playing crimson fists and just slogging forward. Next time I'll outflank or swap for a redemptor.

I've considered reserving the DC intercessors in an attempt to find a use for them, but I always end up cutting them for the normal jump pack guys with free deepstrike, greater movement, and weapon flexibility. GW really missed the mark with that datasheet.

Honestly, GW just needs to make a Primaris Jetpack upgrade sprue going with a new codex that gives it as an upgrade option to assault intercessors and HQ.

Question about crusade force of blood angels:
Can we use the strata to have 2 warlord traits?

Edit: in addition: can someone explain me the Flaw rule?
i get how you get the flaw tally, but what happens next, i'm not completly sure.
what happens with my bladeguard?
or my librarian dreadnought?

I have four 5 man squads of assault intercessors from starter boxes. I want to use two as troop choices, but I want to convert the other two for other uses. Any thoughts on this for an army that is trying to use a ton of jump packs and otherwise fast-moving, hard-hitting MSUs?

teamtigerstripe wrote:
I have four 5 man squads of assault intercessors from starter boxes. I want to use two as troop choices, but I want to convert the other two for other uses. Any thoughts on this for an army that is trying to use a ton of jump packs and otherwise fast-moving, hard-hitting MSUs?

I think the most obvious answer is throw some jump packs on them and make them Van Vets. Your foot slogging options of DC intercessors or Veteran Intercessors neither fit the mold of what you outlined your army theme to be nor are they very great datasheets for the points.

Sobie wrote:

teamtigerstripe wrote:
I have four 5 man squads of assault intercessors from starter boxes. I want to use two as troop choices, but I want to convert the other two for other uses. Any thoughts on this for an army that is trying to use a ton of jump packs and otherwise fast-moving, hard-hitting MSUs?

I think the most obvious answer is throw some jump packs on them and make them Van Vets. Your foot slogging options of DC intercessors or Veteran Intercessors neither fit the mold of what you outlined your army theme to be nor are they very great datasheets for the points.

I generally like that idea, but the only issue is that I would likely want to get lightning claws and shields then. I see a lot of people using that setup, and I assume it is generally considered the best for van vets.

teamtigerstripe wrote:

Sobie wrote:

teamtigerstripe wrote:
I have four 5 man squads of assault intercessors from starter boxes. I want to use two as troop choices, but I want to convert the other two for other uses. Any thoughts on this for an army that is trying to use a ton of jump packs and otherwise fast-moving, hard-hitting MSUs?

I think the most obvious answer is throw some jump packs on them and make them Van Vets. Your foot slogging options of DC intercessors or Veteran Intercessors neither fit the mold of what you outlined your army theme to be nor are they very great datasheets for the points.

I generally like that idea, but the only issue is that I would likely want to get lightning claws and shields then. I see a lot of people using that setup, and I assume it is generally considered the best for van vets.

Yeah I think you'd have to find the parts to outfit them with the right weapons but if you are converting, I figured that's kind of par for the course.

Bolt pistols and chainswords is definitely not the reason to play Van Vets, but they are still worth the point premium over the bog standard assault marine for the +1 A, +1 LD and their mobility beats that of a standard assault intercesso - at the cost of obsec of course.

...Actually scratch everything I just said. Give them Jump packs and run them as normal DC. BP + CS is the standard loadout for them so it makes perfect sense.

Thanks for those ideas. I love the DC idea as well. Either way I am throwing some jump packs on them and deciding what color to paint them. But with the DC route, the weapon options already fit.

I am trying to figure out what a good third troop choice would be for a battalion that already has two 5-man squads of assault intercessors. The rest of the army is fast moving elite troops of various jump-pack flavors and a few combat characters. The ranged support is a 3-man eradicators and a whirlwind for support in combat.
My thoughts are that I need a unit that is comfortable sitting towards the back or midfield on objectives while the majority of the army moves forward. So I was thinking heavy intercessors. But I see everyone loves incursors and infiltrators. I am not too worried about deepstriking because of how fast the army is generally and I can screen the whirlwind with either the eradicators or heavy intercessors. Will someone try to sell me on those two other options, because I am not seeing their value in this case but everyone seems to love them.
If I do go heavy intercessors, which weapon choice do you find is best for this role?

I think Heavy Intercessors are max overkill for holding a lightly contested backfield objective. You pay a ton of points for a lot of excess durability on a unit that will probably only ever get to use it super late in the game when your opponent has chewed through the rest of your army. They are also only going to be good for the a bit of chip damage here or there from range.

Infiltrators with a Helix Gauntlet save you 10 points, nullify any risk of an opponents charge out of deepstrike, have more then enough durability to babysit a back objective, and offer a lot more tactical flexibility at the deployment step and throughout the game because of their concealed deployment and strat access.

Incursors are a more aggressive alternative to infiltrators and shave even more points. I don't think their best use is backfield objective camping - they are more about early pressure and establishing board control but they have access to smoke for -1 to hit on top of transhuman so I guess they are more durable than the the other primaris options left.

It seems a little counter intuitive but the only reason I'd consider Heavy Ints is if I'm giving them assault variants of their bolters and advancing them onto a midboard objective where they are going to just be a massive pain for the opponent to kill off. They will have to use real firepower to clear them off, basic bolters aren't going to do it. People don't like putting heavy weapons into troops when they have Van Vets or Sang Guard bearing down.

Yeah, Heavy Intercessors would be my last choice of Troops for that sort of job. I'd go with either Infiltrators for their Deep Strike denial abilities or just some regular Intercessors. If the plan is to sit on an objective regular Intercessors are fairly cheap and they can contribute some random bolt rifle shots to from the backfield when needed. Hopefully the faster moving stuff in the middle of the board will pull attention from them, upping their survivability.

Okay, next question: Death Company with jump packs. I am converting 10 assault intercessors into DC with JP, and I am trying to figure out the weapon load outs. I will likely only run a squad of about 7-8, since that is what I have points for in my list. I want them to be a hammer that I can send off to hit an important target that might be away from my main force. For that reason they have to be a little utility weapons wise. I have about 50 points to spare to kit them out, but I can wiggle a little bit there. I was thinking 2x hammers, 2x power swords. But I don’t know what people generally think about the various weapon options, like power fists, and gun options. Any thoughts would be helpful!

I prefer to keep my DC squads under the 6 man threshold to keep Forlorn Fury and Refusal To Die at 1 CP rather than 2. It also has the side benefit of staying below the blast threshold and making coherencey easier if you are trying to string them into an Aura or something.

When I run them, it's 3 hammers and 2 chainswords. They are used to kill big nasties or die trying. Other units like Vanguard Vets make better all-rounders in my experience. DC just don't have the staying power to stick around if your opponent understands the damage they are capable of.

DC are pretty much either TH or standard BP/CS loadout for me. They hit hard enough with a chainsword that I rarely feel any of the other D1 weapons offer much for the extra points and TH are excellent for dealing with big threats from monsters to characters to vehicles.

The only problem with DC is keeping them alive. I don't think I'd run a unit of 5 unless I had some pretty serious target saturation because they die very easily for their cost. I usually go 9-10 and try to engage multiple units early if possible.

What are the current thoughts on Mephiston v. Libby Dread?

I have a rules question - been out of the game too long over the pandemic.

Units that can deepstrike (i.e. with the Death from Above special rule), can this happen turn 1? Turn 2?

What rule am I missing, help much appreciated

Turn 1 only units with the allowance to DS turn 1 are allowed to, aka Drop pods. All other units, to my knowledge, must DS turn 2. Drop Pods are the only unit with a turn 1 rule allowance. Maybe the dread claw? but those aren't BA. Also, this has been a rule since 8th, like 2018.

Good man!

teamtigerstripe wrote:
What are the current thoughts on Mephiston v. Libby Dread?

Only ever play them when I make less serious lists. The BA Psychic discipline they are locked too is outclassed by the general utility of the standard space marine options. We have no shortage of other beat stick options that generally buff surrounding units better like the smash captain or bike chaplains.

Mephiston is easier to maneuver and has access to transhuman which will help in a character duel, but I prefer the flat 3Dmg (d3+3Dmg for the extra Halberd attack) on the dread's attacks vs Mephiston's D3 dmg.

If you want a beat stick that can smite and sometimes fly, they'll both do a job.

Are Inceptors still worth it? I remember them being all the rage a while back, but when you price in the obligatory jump captain they are very pricy.

SirGunslinger wrote:
Are Inceptors still worth it? I remember them being all the rage a while back, but when you price in the obligatory jump captain they are very pricy.

I'm finding less use for Plasma Inceptors these days myself. Their 18" range puts them in danger of a lot of really scary stuff that will mess them up in melee or at the very least tag them. Not great when considering their points investment. Not to mention the proliferation of high strength/AP D3+3 dmg weapons that just vaporize them. The meta shift has been into Dreads for fire support duties. Winning competitive Space Marine lists without double Volkite Contemptors seem to be a rarity these days regardless of chapter for example.

I don't know if this thread is dead from lack of BA players, or everyone is just depressed because of the faction's sad results lately, but I'm in the process of assembling a new 2k List that I can take to tourneys without getting laughed out of the place. The recent points drops look to make death company and gladiators just a little bit more attractive, and I wanted to see if I could lean on them a little.

By taking Master Artisans the 4 d3+3 shots basically always hit. The construction allows for some TTL play against opponents without Wazboms and the like that can find my tanks in the backfield turn 1. I think fall back and charge is really strong for the movement potential, but I would be open to suggestions on the second custom trait, maybe just whirlwind of rage for extra output to make up for losing +1 to wound.
The stray melta pistols, as well as the Quake Bolts love a free reroll.

I'm not looking to conquer LVO next year, but mainly have a chance to take an RTT or to have a respectable result at a GT. I would love any thoughts you may have.

I am sure the baal predator should probably just be bolter inceptors or attack bikes or something. I may test it a few different ways, but I will be able to get a few test games in before any tournaments and I want to see for myself if the Baal can work.

We were in a tough position we got nerfed # gathering dust

EmperorForearm wrote:
I don't know if this thread is dead from lack of BA players, or everyone is just depressed because of the faction's sad results lately, but I'm in the process of assembling a new 2k List that I can take to tourneys without getting laughed out of the place. The recent points drops look to make death company and gladiators just a little bit more attractive, and I wanted to see if I could lean on them a little.

By taking Master Artisans the 4 d3+3 shots basically always hit. The construction allows for some TTL play against opponents without Wazboms and the like that can find my tanks in the backfield turn 1. I think fall back and charge is really strong for the movement potential, but I would be open to suggestions on the second custom trait, maybe just whirlwind of rage for extra output to make up for losing +1 to wound.
The stray melta pistols, as well as the Quake Bolts love a free reroll.

I'm not looking to conquer LVO next year, but mainly have a chance to take an RTT or to have a respectable result at a GT. I would love any thoughts you may have.

I am sure the baal predator should probably just be bolter inceptors or attack bikes or something. I may test it a few different ways, but I will be able to get a few test games in before any tournaments and I want to see for myself if the Baal can work.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [114 PL, 6CP, 1,996pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels Successor, Custom Chapter, Master Artisans, Tactical Withdrawal

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: Iron Resolve, Storm shield, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour Indomitus, Thunder hammer

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, -2CP, 155pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Icon of The Angel, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Honoured by the Arx Angelicum

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Death Company Marines [8 PL, 165pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Death Company Marines [8 PL, 140pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Astartes Chainsword, Inferno pistol

Sanguinary Ancient [7 PL, -1CP, 110pts]: 3. Soulwarden, Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword, Quake Bolts, Rites of War, Stratagem: Angel Exemplar, Warlord

Terminator Assault Squad [18 PL, 271pts]
. Assault Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. 3x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 3x Storm shield, 3x Thunder hammer
. 3x Assault Terminator w/x2LC: 3x Lightning Claw (Pair)

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 180pts]: Jump Pack
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Inferno pistol, Lightning Claw
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

+ Heavy Support +

Baal Predator [8 PL, 155pts]: Baal Flamestorm cannon, Storm bolter
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Gladiator Lancer [11 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Auto Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Gladiator Lancer [11 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Auto Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [114 PL, 6CP, 1,996pts] ++

I'd reconsider the HS section and replace it with units in the Elite section, like Redemptors and Volkite Contemptors.

Well, this thread has been quiet lately. Time to wake from your coffins, brothers!

The first change we have not discussed is Armour of Contempt. This has given a shot in the arm to all Marine factions but is especially good on units with a native 2+ save. Sanguinary Guard love this buff as they now get a 4+ save even against plasma and Power Swords. I think this definitely gives them the edge over VanVets now since the classic LC/SS built does not benefit from AoC and AP-2 on the claws is starting to look a bit anaemic vs AoC units.

Secondly, how do the changes in Warzone Nephilim affect us? I normally rely heavily in both Warlord Traits and extra relics so having to pay more for them while getting fewer CPs to start with is going to really sting. I wonder if Special Characters will start to see more play? You still have to pay for a WLT trait but they get their special rules and usually some sort of Relic baked into their cost. Dante was showing up in lists already and now that extra +1CP he brings is starting to look a bit more valuable since starting CPs are such a scare resource. Thoughts?

That was my question as well. Does this spell doom for the Smash Captains?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That was my question as well. Does this spell doom for the Smash Captains?

Smash Captains have been struggling since we lost Red Rampage and the ability to reroll their own 1s at the start of 9th anyway. It does mean we ned to think harder if we want to tool up a Herohammer Character rather than just using them for their standard reroll aura.

New points update and missions have given BA a good shot in the arm so I've knocked up a list I'm pretty happy with.

Dante
Sanguinary Priest JumpPack, Chief Apoth
10 Deathcompany JP Thunder hammer, 2x Melta Pistol, 2x Fist
5 Deathcompany JP 2x Thunderhammer
Sanguinary Ancient Powerfist
5 Sanguinary Guard
8 Sanguinary Guard 2x Melta Pistol
5 Incursor
5 Incursor
5 Assault intercessors
Vindicator Siege
Vindicator Siege
5 Assault marines Eviscerator, Powersword, Melta Pistol, 2x Meltagun
5 Assault marines Eviscerator, Powerfist, Melta Pistol, 2x Meltagun

2000pts on the nose and uses some of the newly efficient units.

Vindicators with a 2+ and AoC are a tough nut and although random can put the hurt on things.

Assault maines are now a bargain with all the equipment including jumppacks dropping by 5 points making alot of it free.

Why take assault intercessors if they are an inferior variant of other "assault" options? I love painting mine, but they'd never see the table.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why take assault intercessors if they are an inferior variant of other "assault" options? I love painting mine, but they'd never see the table.

Because they are a cheap ObjSec unit to pay the Troop tax. You could save 5 points by taking Tactical Marines but I think Assault Intercessors make better use of Red Thirst and Savage Echoes.

I dunno, an Intercessor SGT with a TH can theoretically kill a knight. I'd take a 5 man Intercessor squad kitted for CC myself, but I don't have the best strategies with BA yet, just started assembling mine last week. All Primaris except Dante.

As Karhedron said, they are a cheap troop choice and points are really tight elsewhere.

Ill be using them to hide and hold an objective or screen the vindicator, they can do work when they get to assault doc. Tacticals need upgrade to work which makes them not cheap.

I feel a battalion is nessesary with the new mission rules.

With this setup I can go with relic banner and rights of war on the ancient and chief apothecary trait on the priest and still have 4CP at the start to happily threaten with the death company.

I've found good milage with my smash captain - I'm finding I want to drop my armor indomitus for a storm shield, using the relic slot on that juicy AP-3 hammer of baal without the -1 to hit.

Early on the +1 to hit / re-roll ones is great for plasma weapons. Then he can buff himself or another melee threat, redeploy 20", do all the good things a bike captain can.

If I went FULL BA primaris, what HQs should I look at? Right now I just have a LT, Mephy, and a Gravis Captain. Should I drop the LT for a Chaplain? I figure Meph is 90% of my psyker game, but I can't tell what a good back up to the Captain is? Chaplain on a bike?

A Chaplain is always good in BA. Consider upgrading to the Master of Sanctity as well. If you can afford it, the bike version gets a lot of buffs for the extra points.

The problem with full Primaris BA is you miss out on their best units: Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. Yes, technically there are Primaris DC, but the reason DC are good is down to mobility and the number of TH you can pack into them. Primaris DC lose both of those advantages.

Is the Justicar(Sp?) or Judicar? just a Primaris Chaplain or am I missing something? I mean, he's got a REALLY big sword, but I don't know if he's worth it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is the Justicar(Sp?) or Judicar? just a Primaris Chaplain or am I missing something? I mean, he's got a REALLY big sword, but I don't know if he's worth it.

No he's another thing, he has rules for gives to an enemy unità fight last, a nice thing but I think It doesn't match well with Blood Angels as they are better with Jump pack units and the Judicar lack's on mobility, he work's well with chapter like Space wolf or White scars.

So can I count on Assault Intercessors in 10 man squads to earn their points back on the charge, or is that a losing battle? I figure with red thirst and other stuff, they can do some ugly things?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So can I count on Assault Intercessors in 10 man squads to earn their points back on the charge, or is that a losing battle? I figure with red thirst and other stuff, they can do some ugly things?

Big "it depends". Assuming assault doctrine and no other buffs, in one activation they'll kill:

1 Scarab Occult Terminators
5 Intercessors
7 Howling Banshees

The sad fact is that without advance and charge, they will be too slow to reach their target intact and be the first to get the charge off. Combine that with the prevalence of AoC and they don't have the killing power to be worth running a 10 man brick.

What are the best troops then for a BA primaris army? Base Intercessors?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What are the best troops then for a BA primaris army? Base Intercessors?

Incursors and infiltrators in my opinion. The forward deploy and access to guerilla tactics are good for primary/secondary play or screening.

If I take a battalion, it's usually something like 2x5 incursors, and 1x5 assault intercessors or even barebones tac squad as a cheap 3rd troop spot.

Not a lot of value to be found in the space marine troops slot.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What are the best troops then for a BA primaris army? Base Intercessors?

I'll echo Incursors of Infiltrators. Incursors for preference as they're cheaper and slightly better in combat. They can take midfield objectives early and can limit enemy movement or even tie up enemy units with aggressive deployment.

Also, don't ignore Intercessors. A unit of 5 sitting on a backfield objective is decent value. Or you can add a PF or TH to the Sgt and push into midfield where they can be a threat to a wide range of units.

See, I know this is dumb, but my list was kinda based around the idea of playing to the theme of the Knights of Blood. Get in close, and punch repeatedly. Should I drop Meph for a generic captain, or can he earn his points back?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
See, I know this is dumb, but my list was kinda based around the idea of playing to the theme of the Knights of Blood. Get in close, and punch repeatedly. Should I drop Meph for a generic captain, or can he earn his points back?

Why the obsession with earning your points back? It doesn't matter if you earn your points back if you achieve something else that furthers your chance of winning. To take your previous example of Assault Intercessors, if I plan to tie up an enemy unit with 20 wounds of Space Marine and they do so for a turn to allow me to score a bunch of VPs it doesn't necessarily matter if they make their points back or not.

If your theme is to get close and punch things, forward deployed units do that just fine.

To be honest, a friend bought me the Assault Intercessor "Start to paint" box because I told him I like 40k. And he thought I had nothing to actually hobby on. So I have these Assault Intercessors, and nothing to do with them.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
To be honest, a friend bought me the Assault Intercessor "Start to paint" box because I told him I like 40k. And he thought I had nothing to actually hobby on. So I have these Assault Intercessors, and nothing to do with them.

They are the second cheapest troop option which is good if you want a cheap obsec squad to babysit a back objective all game or a sacrificial lamb to contest a midboard objective. As long as you make peace with the fact that they are pawns for playing the objectives rather than hammers to kill your opponent, they can be useful.

I thought the Assault Intercessor SGT in a DC squad with a TH and Red Thirst can do something stupid with all the BA tricks and shenanigans. Like, the SGT with a TH is basically a really powerful beat stick with 10 ablative wounds right?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I thought the Assault Intercessor SGT in a DC squad with a TH and Red Thirst can do something stupid with all the BA tricks and shenanigans. Like, the SGT with a TH is basically a really powerful beat stick with 10 ablative wounds right?

You could always check the rules yourself...

There's no such thing as an Assault Intercessor Sgt in the DC. DC don't get Sgts. DC Intercessors are A3 base, with a potential for +3 from their SM/DC/BA buffs and fairly easy access to re-rolls to hit through either Dante or a Chaplain. That means an Intercessor DC with a TH (of which you can have 1 per squad) averages 4.5 hits if all those buffs are up. Those wound on 2s against almost everything at -2AP. That's good, but not really that spectacular. It doesn't kill a dread or Carnifex, for example.

In contrast, Firstborn DC get access to more THs and have mobility thanks to Jump Packs. They hit a lot harder unless the thing you're attacking is particularly vulnerable to chainswords. In that case DC are almost always overkill anyway.

Thank you! I was honestly trying to piece things together with Waha, but I had no idea what the value of DC was. It seems like they are a way to sneak in a sub faction inside a sub faction? They get all the same buffs, with a very slight nerf.

So never take DC HQs? I would buy the actual dex, but I'm currently trying to save pennies for the arrival of baby, so no purchases for husband this year on anything that isn't STRICTLY baby related.

I suggested making the Mobile out of Orks and Carnifexes, and she (Wife) looked like she wanted to hit me.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Thank you! I was honestly trying to piece things together with Waha, but I had no idea what the value of DC was. It seems like they are a way to sneak in a sub faction inside a sub faction? They get all the same buffs, with a very slight nerf.

So never take DC HQs? I would buy the actual dex, but I'm currently trying to save pennies for the arrival of baby, so no purchases for husband this year on anything that isn't STRICTLY baby related.

I suggested making the Mobile out of Orks and Carnifexes, and she (Wife) looked like she wanted to hit me.

The DC HQs are generally too expensive for what they do. If you have the points spare then maybe, but IIRC changing them to DC switches off their buffs for everyone else. I'm not 100% sure but I do know the character DC "upgrade" isn't that good because I've never taken it and I can't recall seeing anyone else ever take it.

DC aren't really a sub-faction within the BA. They're just a special unit we have access to, like Wulfen for SW. They get a couple of special rules but that's really it.

I thought it was they get melee buffs, but are disallowed from falling back, and have to be moving towards the nearest enemy, if at all? Again, working off BS and Waha here.

That's both right and very wrong. DC can't fall back and get +1A when they charge. That's pretty much it. They also have the worst Ld of any proper SM unit due to the quirk of not getting sgts.

DC characters basically pay points to become less useful and get a once per game ability that can be very good but can also be meaningless.

6+ fnp which with 2 wounds and plenty of 2 dam weapons is surprisingly useful giving in essence 5+ save against being killed

Oh drat. Well, I guess I don't have to worry then, the Red armor I painted can stay...

Roughly 10 games with my BA after Nephilim, mostly competitive games.

Some takes:

I like the new two ways to score primary missions. Secondaries-wise I seem to always take blade of sanguinius and relentless assault. Blade is easy 10 and has some psychological side to affect how the opponent plays, but yeah I'd say easy 10, because you select the target and your character after deployment. I always make Astorath as the blade for the mission, but usually I've settled just killing the target with any melee unit (last game I charged my eliminators to fist down a malignant plaguecaster, hehe). Also I like relentless assault, it only requires you to be within, not wholly within so easier to score, here I'd say easy 9 points atleast.

On the list building, I've leaned on named characters, because they don't really need warlord traits or relics to shine, so I start with 4-5 CP every game. Upon wings of Sanguinius is great strat to remember to have. Also my tactics are quite often less ABC and more chess and threat pressure and I only execute when it really benefits.

Lastly have to say AoC army playing against another AoC feel quite dull, 16 thunder hammer attacks if not in assault doctrine can bounch really badly when meq is just saving on 4+.

If someone's interested, here's my 4 starting CP list that I've been running lately, today against new chaos.

What is the point of taking the Sword over the axe on the Sang Guard? Also, why not just take the hit and go for inferno Pistols?

I would take all sword if I had the models, AoC dominating the meta so the increase in ap is more important than S6. inferno pistols are fine sprinkled here and there if I had the points. my other iteration has second assault squad, but 35p for selfless healer nets me 2-3 free cp every game atleast how I run my BA, feels just more comfortable.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Oh drat. Well, I guess I don't have to worry then, the Red armor I painted can stay...

Primaris DC aren't a great datasheet but the firstborn are excellent and generally see lots of play in competitive lists. AoC + FNP makes them fairly durable, they are cheap, and they have so many attacks. They also have their pregame move strat which is the only way outside of scout deploy units to force first turn pressure on your opponent.

Not being able to perform actions is a bigger headache than not being able to fall back in my experience. LD 7 does suck for combat attrition but these guys are trade piece missiles, not objective holders.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What is the point of taking the Sword over the axe on the Sang Guard? Also, why not just take the hit and go for inferno Pistols?

-3 vs -2 in age of aoc? Meanwhile s6 vs s5 doesn't come up that often particularly with +1 to wound. T4, t7,t8 are pretty darn common targets. T3 you are same, t12 doesn't show up.


List of t5 and t6 targets particularly without good saves are pretty few.

Vs say t5 3+ aoc sword is better... t6 3+ aoc equal...

Seeing how much aoc is out there axes are lot more niche. Orks is one target that axes are good but do you really feel sang guard needs to tailor up against possibility of facing orks?-)

SW player here just browsing through. I saw what you said about named characters and I like them a lot because they save on CP. They often come with a special rule and a built in relic for no CP.

SW had a lot of named characters. But space wolves get so little out of playing a nonnsucksessor chapter. +1 to hit can be copied with born heroes. The heoric intervention can be done with a strat.

However, blood angel bonuses are really good. I do not know your named characters but some are bound to be good.