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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: That was my question as well. Does this spell doom for the Smash Captains?
Smash Captains have been struggling since we lost Red Rampage and the ability to reroll their own 1s at the start of 9th anyway. It does mean we ned to think harder if we want to tool up a Herohammer Character rather than just using them for their standard reroll aura.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Why take assault intercessors if they are an inferior variant of other "assault" options? I love painting mine, but they'd never see the table.
Because they are a cheap ObjSec unit to pay the Troop tax. You could save 5 points by taking Tactical Marines but I think Assault Intercessors make better use of Red Thirst and Savage Echoes.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
I dunno, an Intercessor SGT with a TH can theoretically kill a knight. I'd take a 5 man Intercessor squad kitted for CC myself, but I don't have the best strategies with BA yet, just started assembling mine last week. All Primaris except Dante.
As Karhedron said, they are a cheap troop choice and points are really tight elsewhere.
Ill be using them to hide and hold an objective or screen the vindicator, they can do work when they get to assault doc. Tacticals need upgrade to work which makes them not cheap.
I feel a battalion is nessesary with the new mission rules.
With this setup I can go with relic banner and rights of war on the ancient and chief apothecary trait on the priest and still have 4CP at the start to happily threaten with the death company.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 14:42:18
I've found good milage with my smash captain - I'm finding I want to drop my armor indomitus for a storm shield, using the relic slot on that juicy AP-3 hammer of baal without the -1 to hit.
Early on the +1 to hit / re-roll ones is great for plasma weapons. Then he can buff himself or another melee threat, redeploy 20", do all the good things a bike captain can.
If I went FULL BA primaris, what HQs should I look at? Right now I just have a LT, Mephy, and a Gravis Captain. Should I drop the LT for a Chaplain? I figure Meph is 90% of my psyker game, but I can't tell what a good back up to the Captain is? Chaplain on a bike?
A Chaplain is always good in BA. Consider upgrading to the Master of Sanctity as well. If you can afford it, the bike version gets a lot of buffs for the extra points.
The problem with full Primaris BA is you miss out on their best units: Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. Yes, technically there are Primaris DC, but the reason DC are good is down to mobility and the number of TH you can pack into them. Primaris DC lose both of those advantages.
Is the Justicar(Sp?) or Judicar? just a Primaris Chaplain or am I missing something? I mean, he's got a REALLY big sword, but I don't know if he's worth it.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Is the Justicar(Sp?) or Judicar? just a Primaris Chaplain or am I missing something? I mean, he's got a REALLY big sword, but I don't know if he's worth it.
No he's another thing, he has rules for gives to an enemy unità fight last, a nice thing but I think It doesn't match well with Blood Angels as they are better with Jump pack units and the Judicar lack's on mobility, he work's well with chapter like Space wolf or White scars.
So can I count on Assault Intercessors in 10 man squads to earn their points back on the charge, or is that a losing battle? I figure with red thirst and other stuff, they can do some ugly things?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So can I count on Assault Intercessors in 10 man squads to earn their points back on the charge, or is that a losing battle? I figure with red thirst and other stuff, they can do some ugly things?
Big "it depends". Assuming assault doctrine and no other buffs, in one activation they'll kill:
The sad fact is that without advance and charge, they will be too slow to reach their target intact and be the first to get the charge off. Combine that with the prevalence of AoC and they don't have the killing power to be worth running a 10 man brick.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: What are the best troops then for a BA primaris army? Base Intercessors?
I'll echo Incursors of Infiltrators. Incursors for preference as they're cheaper and slightly better in combat. They can take midfield objectives early and can limit enemy movement or even tie up enemy units with aggressive deployment.
Also, don't ignore Intercessors. A unit of 5 sitting on a backfield objective is decent value. Or you can add a PF or TH to the Sgt and push into midfield where they can be a threat to a wide range of units.
See, I know this is dumb, but my list was kinda based around the idea of playing to the theme of the Knights of Blood. Get in close, and punch repeatedly. Should I drop Meph for a generic captain, or can he earn his points back?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: See, I know this is dumb, but my list was kinda based around the idea of playing to the theme of the Knights of Blood. Get in close, and punch repeatedly. Should I drop Meph for a generic captain, or can he earn his points back?
Why the obsession with earning your points back? It doesn't matter if you earn your points back if you achieve something else that furthers your chance of winning. To take your previous example of Assault Intercessors, if I plan to tie up an enemy unit with 20 wounds of Space Marine and they do so for a turn to allow me to score a bunch of VPs it doesn't necessarily matter if they make their points back or not.
If your theme is to get close and punch things, forward deployed units do that just fine.
To be honest, a friend bought me the Assault Intercessor "Start to paint" box because I told him I like 40k. And he thought I had nothing to actually hobby on. So I have these Assault Intercessors, and nothing to do with them.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: To be honest, a friend bought me the Assault Intercessor "Start to paint" box because I told him I like 40k. And he thought I had nothing to actually hobby on. So I have these Assault Intercessors, and nothing to do with them.
They are the second cheapest troop option which is good if you want a cheap obsec squad to babysit a back objective all game or a sacrificial lamb to contest a midboard objective. As long as you make peace with the fact that they are pawns for playing the objectives rather than hammers to kill your opponent, they can be useful.
I thought the Assault Intercessor SGT in a DC squad with a TH and Red Thirst can do something stupid with all the BA tricks and shenanigans. Like, the SGT with a TH is basically a really powerful beat stick with 10 ablative wounds right?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I thought the Assault Intercessor SGT in a DC squad with a TH and Red Thirst can do something stupid with all the BA tricks and shenanigans. Like, the SGT with a TH is basically a really powerful beat stick with 10 ablative wounds right?
You could always check the rules yourself...
There's no such thing as an Assault Intercessor Sgt in the DC. DC don't get Sgts. DC Intercessors are A3 base, with a potential for +3 from their SM/DC/BA buffs and fairly easy access to re-rolls to hit through either Dante or a Chaplain. That means an Intercessor DC with a TH (of which you can have 1 per squad) averages 4.5 hits if all those buffs are up. Those wound on 2s against almost everything at -2AP. That's good, but not really that spectacular. It doesn't kill a dread or Carnifex, for example.
In contrast, Firstborn DC get access to more THs and have mobility thanks to Jump Packs. They hit a lot harder unless the thing you're attacking is particularly vulnerable to chainswords. In that case DC are almost always overkill anyway.
Thank you! I was honestly trying to piece things together with Waha, but I had no idea what the value of DC was. It seems like they are a way to sneak in a sub faction inside a sub faction? They get all the same buffs, with a very slight nerf.
So never take DCHQs? I would buy the actual dex, but I'm currently trying to save pennies for the arrival of baby, so no purchases for husband this year on anything that isn't STRICTLY baby related.
I suggested making the Mobile out of Orks and Carnifexes, and she (Wife) looked like she wanted to hit me.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Thank you! I was honestly trying to piece things together with Waha, but I had no idea what the value of DC was. It seems like they are a way to sneak in a sub faction inside a sub faction? They get all the same buffs, with a very slight nerf.
So never take DCHQs? I would buy the actual dex, but I'm currently trying to save pennies for the arrival of baby, so no purchases for husband this year on anything that isn't STRICTLY baby related.
I suggested making the Mobile out of Orks and Carnifexes, and she (Wife) looked like she wanted to hit me.
The DCHQs are generally too expensive for what they do. If you have the points spare then maybe, but IIRC changing them to DC switches off their buffs for everyone else. I'm not 100% sure but I do know the character DC "upgrade" isn't that good because I've never taken it and I can't recall seeing anyone else ever take it.
DC aren't really a sub-faction within the BA. They're just a special unit we have access to, like Wulfen for SW. They get a couple of special rules but that's really it.
I thought it was they get melee buffs, but are disallowed from falling back, and have to be moving towards the nearest enemy, if at all? Again, working off BS and Waha here.
That's both right and very wrong. DC can't fall back and get +1A when they charge. That's pretty much it. They also have the worst Ld of any proper SM unit due to the quirk of not getting sgts.
DC characters basically pay points to become less useful and get a once per game ability that can be very good but can also be meaningless.
Roughly 10 games with my BA after Nephilim, mostly competitive games.
Some takes:
I like the new two ways to score primary missions. Secondaries-wise I seem to always take blade of sanguinius and relentless assault. Blade is easy 10 and has some psychological side to affect how the opponent plays, but yeah I'd say easy 10, because you select the target and your character after deployment. I always make Astorath as the blade for the mission, but usually I've settled just killing the target with any melee unit (last game I charged my eliminators to fist down a malignant plaguecaster, hehe). Also I like relentless assault, it only requires you to be within, not wholly within so easier to score, here I'd say easy 9 points atleast.
On the list building, I've leaned on named characters, because they don't really need warlord traits or relics to shine, so I start with 4-5 CP every game. Upon wings of Sanguinius is great strat to remember to have. Also my tactics are quite often less ABC and more chess and threat pressure and I only execute when it really benefits.
Lastly have to say AoC army playing against another AoC feel quite dull, 16 thunder hammer attacks if not in assault doctrine can bounch really badly when meq is just saving on 4+.
If someone's interested, here's my 4 starting CP list that I've been running lately, today against new chaos.
Death Company Marines [8 PL, 165pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine . . Bolt pistol and chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient [7 PL, -2CP, 110pts]: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Relic, Wrath of Baal
40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
