Could always grab that WarCry gobbo set too.

The what now? No WarCry set on GW’s shop?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The what now? No WarCry set on GW’s shop?

Well apparently it's done is why...


This was the set. It was the only way to get a printed card for Sneaky Snufflers initially. Released with the Stormcast Vanguard and Nighthaunt warbands.

Ooooh!

Definitely looking at picking up the CSM box, I have one of the GW vouchers so might as well use it before I lose it. I've got a weird mish-mash of old, very badly painted and assembled CSM that I've slowly accumulated, but I've been meaning to bite the bullet and start afresh with some shiny new Word Bearers for a while now.

Consider grabbing one of the "Start Collecting" sets too.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Consider grabbing one of the "Start Collecting" sets too.

I've managed to pick up the CSM half of Shadowspear and a Lord Discordant along the way, so I'm aiming to mash them together in a demonic, spiky mess as a list and see what happens when we're able to roll dice again,

 Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I've heard it suggested that the allocation issue is a US/Canada only thing, possibly due to shipping/logistics delays (i.e there may be additional waves of stock available). Seems the UK/EU might not have the same limitations.

As always, the stock for independent shops is different from the GW webstore stock which is different to the stock for their physical stores. There's a lot of independent stores and as we saw with Indomitus, sometimes these small shops put in ridiculously high order numbers and it seems to be tied to their webstores rather than the actual storefronts.

Right, but thats besides the point because from what I'm seeing and hearing from US retailers is that regardless of the stores size or sales volume they are being limited to qty 1 of each battleforce. This includes my usual store which never has its order quantities for *anything* reduced, as well as another local store which is one of the major online retailers for the game (supposedly top 3 by sales volume in the US). Both of them are saying the same thing - "We can only get one of each of these boxes from GW".

I get that, I'm just stating a fact in advance of something that tends to get conflated whenever we see these limited quantities which is "GW kept all the stock for themselves!". GW shops are supposedly getting 1 of each as well.

And hell, even the new releases for Marines are stated to be 2 per shop for independents per the order sheet we saw. I know that my local GW got a handful of some of the newest releases while a local indie had about six each when I went to grab a Clone AT-RT for Legion doing my monthly sweep of dropping cash at a local indie shop.

We can expect retail madness to be the normal until we get corona under control and GW can work at full output once more. Even then it will likely be a few months lag time before they get on top of things (esp for overseas)

spoke w the big shop some more, supposedly the 1ea cap is for week 1 and everyone will be able to order more week 2 though it will be throttled/subject to further allocation. No idea what the rationale is, just what their sales rep told them.

chaos0xomega wrote:
spoke w the big shop some more, supposedly the 1ea cap is for week 1 and everyone will be able to order more week 2 though it will be throttled/subject to further allocation. No idea what the rationale is, just what their sales rep told them.

No offense, but didn’t we hear the same thing about BloodBowl second season? Yet Miniaturemarket got 200+, sold those and got at least 150 more.

My LGS hasn’t heard anything about max quantity to order, so it could just be your shop saying it because with the pandemic and lower sales they just don’t have the money to tie up in lots of big dollar boxes. I know GW doesn’t have the production abilities due to social distancing their employees, but these seem like pretty standard press the button and walk away products.

Minimarket, I think, uses a 3rd party distributor rather than a GW trade account. Things like "one per shop" might be a GW trade account thing--ensuring that their trade accounts can get stock and maintain it.

When Mini-Market's stock goes? It's gone.

Again - this shop is one of the top three online retailers in the US by sales volume, so - no - it has nothing to do with them not having cash on hand (in fact, they also admitted that because they have multiple physical locations they are actually getting 3 copies of each rather than 1) and everything to do with GW policy. Discount Games Inc has confirmed similar as well (again, another major online retailer).

And no, we didn't hear the same thing about Blood Bowl second season. I help out at one of the smaller local FLGS's (gotta earn my 25% employee discount!), there was no "limit 1" stipulation on the weekly order spreadsheets from GW for that the way there are for the Battleforces. Can't speak for other stores on that one since I dont really care for the game and didn't follow it closely, but my store was able to order a half dozen copies without issue, whereas I have not heard of a single retailer that *didn't* have "limit 1" written into their weekly order sheet. Maybe there might be a couple of stores that have a really good sales rep that can "look the other way" and get them some extra stock on week 1 (lord knows our sales rep at the shop has definitely managed to get us above allocation on some things in the past), but so far based on what I'm hearing thats not going to happen.

3.5 hours in, only one Battlleforce (Necrons) is sold out in NZ.

Prices aren't as bad as I thought they'd be.

But you can get 'em from 20% discounters.

Not sure if it was mentioned but they fixed the squig issue, 15 as it should be.

Well, they didn't hang around long on Element then! Think I bagged a Necron one (depending on how accurate their stock allocation system is).

Snaffled a Squig one from Element. Which is nice.

Tried form GW site for the necron eradicator, I added to my basket, then went to checkout and it says one or more items out of stock in my basket :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Got one through firestorm gaming woo

Waylan didn't offer discount for these and indeed bulky. Firestorm games gives discount but shipping and with that price so close to FLGS might just as well support them anyway and bit more than I want considering it has spare tyrant and also dubious use giant so guess I'll pass and get gluttons separately whiich were the biggest temptation with leadbelchers, ironguts and scrap launcher being "nice to have but I can live without those for a while" level.

Somebody else can get decent start for gutbuster army.

Just great, local mailorders have dozens on stock of everything except the Necron one... which was the only one I was looking for...

Think that was destined to be fastest selling out box

Was about to buy two from darksphere when I was foiled towards the end of the checkout process by a large PayPal Captcha that was way too big for my phone screen, rendering checkout impossible.

Oh well, I really didn’t need to add stuff to my pile of shame anyway!

Looks like the Dark Sphere server has overloaded. Checked out a box of IG, Tau and Ogors and got a PayPal receipt email. However their server stopped responding and when I refreshed I’m on the home page with the items in my basket and no order on my account. Just raised a ticket with them to see if they’ve got my order or not. Did try phoning but as there shops are closed it went to answerphone. Not sure whether to try and check out again and cancel the first PayPal or wait for them to come back to me

Managed to order a couple of T'au boxes. Happy with that

Took the leap and got myself two tyranid battleforces as a start of a new army. In Germany right now, only necron and SM are gone.

After about half an hour of frustrating refreshes and darksphere crashing, my order for the fatesworn box finally went through. I have had a couple of "we're really sorry, but" emails over the years, so I won't count my chickens until they are here.

I grabbed a Tyranid one. Perfect to complete my army tbf. In an ideal world I would have picked up a Necron one too but they were (fortunately for my wallet) sold out.

International store: Tzeentch and Necrons flew away in under 4 hours, as did the... Primaris?

Surprised, everyone else and their mothers said it was quite terrible in YouTube or forums.

Maybe they are understocked? Or they might not do as many of this as they used to on the first few years.

 CMLR wrote:
International store: Tzeentch and Necrons flew away in under 4 hours, as did the... Primaris?

Surprised, everyone else and their mothers said it was quite terrible in YouTube or forums.

Maybe they are understocked? Or they might not do as many of this as they used to on the first few years.

Primaris sells out because it's space marines. There's reason the marines are master faction and gets lion's share of focus. They sell.

Necron one was also pretty easy to figure sells out. New codex, lots of new kits so fresh looking line and the contents are pretty decent one without much dud's and top of that not heavy overlap with indominatus box.

Tzeentch one wasn't that surprising to me either. LOC is sweet, tzeentch is one of the top armies in AOS(albeit not sure how useful tzaangors and acolytes are competively) and decent price so I can see people buying those fast. KO might be 2nd seller as they are the competive army atm. Ogre one has giant which is driving people off and goblin one mix of squigs and trolls isn't appealing to all so those not selling out super fast isn't that surprising.

Necrons and primaris I figured would go out of stock fastest of them all.

I figure they sold out that fast because GW is understocked. They can't keep up to stock on anything popular at present - they've more orders and less production going on at the same time.

It's why I wonde rif they'll do a second wave after this because they've clearly sold out far faster than ever before with these.

 CMLR wrote:
International store: Tzeentch and Necrons flew away in under 4 hours, as did the... Primaris?

Surprised, everyone else and their mothers said it was quite terrible in YouTube or forums.

Maybe they are understocked? Or they might not do as many of this as they used to on the first few years.

For a new player, the marine one is less bad. It just has a lot of overlap with the SC: Vanguard/shadowspear box, and reivers have been included almost everywhere. So the “I don’t need more of those” factor is very high for the box overall. But if you don’t already have a bunch, it can be nice to add one you your collection.

 Overread wrote:
I figure they sold out that fast because GW is understocked. They can't keep up to stock on anything popular at present - they've more orders and less production going on at the same time.

It's why I wonde rif they'll do a second wave after this because they've clearly sold out far faster than ever before with these.

Then again these christmast boxes have sold generally pretty darn fast in the past as well. GW has never been fan of doing big stock of discount boxes.

 Nevelon wrote:

For a new player, the marine one is less bad. It just has a lot of overlap with the SC: Vanguard/shadowspear box, and reivers have been included almost everywhere. So the “I don’t need more of those” factor is very high for the box overall. But if you don’t already have a bunch, it can be nice to add one you your collection.

One of the more overlooked bits about the SC: Vanguard set is that those Infiltrators are locked as having an apothecary. The full kit gives you the (in my opinion) vastly superior comms array option.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

For a new player, the marine one is less bad. It just has a lot of overlap with the SC: Vanguard/shadowspear box, and reivers have been included almost everywhere. So the “I don’t need more of those” factor is very high for the box overall. But if you don’t already have a bunch, it can be nice to add one you your collection.

One of the more overlooked bits about the SC: Vanguard set is that those Infiltrators are locked as having an apothecary. The full kit gives you the (in my opinion) vastly superior comms array option.

If you lean into the phobos list and take the right HQs, I’d agree with you. If you are splashing them in to a more generalist list, the helix is better. Depends a lot on what kind of list you are playing.

I’ve been enjoying the heck out of my medic for them in my crusade list.

Triple Helix games still has lots of stock left in the UK for all the bundles except Necron.

Just had an email from Dark Sphere and response to my ticket, my order has been confirmed, which is a relief.

Only the Guard one is still available through the UK webstore, the rest are sold out.
Not surprising given their production issues.

Not that they have lasted long ever. Gw models being expensive limited discount boxes always sell out for years. Gw deliberately keeping stock levels　low doesn't help

tneva82 wrote:
Not that they have lasted long ever. Gw models being expensive limited discount boxes always sell out for years. Gw deliberately keeping stock levels　low doesn't help

Yes thats why I got my Stormcast Christmas deal from last year in the summer.

Less than 24 to be sold out is the new GW and main reason I lost interest in Indomitus, DG heroes etc. Covid or not, understock or not all this means I will not buy. Simples.

 NAVARRO wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not that they have lasted long ever. Gw models being expensive limited discount boxes always sell out for years. Gw deliberately keeping stock levels　low doesn't help

Yes thats why I got my Stormcast Christmas deal from last year in the summer.

Less than 24 to be sold out is the new GW and main reason I lost interest in Indomitus, DG heroes etc. Covid or not, understock or not all this means I will not buy. Simples.

It's less understock more underproduction. I'm sure GW would love to produce many many more than they have; the fact they sold out so fast compared to previous years is a clear sign that its part of this years's abnormalities due to production pressure. We've seen that on almost everything produced this year alone, even regular models have been falling out of stock faster than normal. We also don't know if they are going to do production and restock waves or not either; which tye might to try and tease out the production pressure whilst they don't have as many machines and packers able to simply dedicate to the task in one big go.

It's so bizarre that some people want to insist that this is GW standard practice.

GW bundles traditionally last for weeks with the popular boxes and months with the slow sellers. I have a cupboard full of them that can attest to this. Only the stupid limited (notoriously difficult to gauge proper numbers) stuff has, up until very recently, been reliably known to sell out in under a day. The only real black mark was the initial Sororitas release, and even that can be argued was an uncharacteristic underestimation, which was still clearly marketed as limited numbers.

Moan all you want, the Indomitus stuff was out of their hands, and this probably is too.

What time in the US will these go up on the website?

 Theophony wrote:
What time in the US will these go up on the website?

1pm Eastern.

Worth mentioning that there's a 15ish minute window where stuff sometimes goes up early, so start checking around 1245.

JWBS wrote:
It's so bizarre that some people want to insist that this is GW standard practice.

GW bundles traditionally last for weeks with the popular boxes and months with the slow sellers. I have a cupboard full of them that can attest to this. Only the stupid limited (notoriously difficult to gauge proper numbers) stuff has, up until very recently, been reliably known to sell out in under a day. The only real black mark was the initial Sororitas release, and even that can be argued was an uncharacteristic underestimation, which was still clearly marketed as limited numbers.

Moan all you want, the Indomitus stuff was out of their hands, and this probably is too.

Exactly. Last year's boxes were uncharacteristically slow movers. You could get most of them well into the spring and the Stormcast bundle is still available on Amazon with a 15% discount! This year is really off-kilter due to COVID.

The Stormcast boxes have tended to be "meh" and last for a long time. Part of it is being tied to starters and part is that people have already splurged on the individual kits while chasing the meta.

Stormcast ones and otherwise. They normally last longer.
They even do pamphlets with all the Christmas stuff on, a real sort of get your parents to buy you this kind of box.

Already live. Got a Necron box pre-ordered.

Got nothing, please tell me that at least there was a one box per person limit this time so the grifter didnt get all of it?

Refreshed webstore at 1:00, clicked on Preorders, clicked to the 2nd page of preorders, clicked on the Necron one, "No longer available online." I figured they'd go fast, but I didn't think they'd sell out in the US in the few seconds it took me to navigate to it and try to order. Unreal.

Attention: to those of you looking to buy the Christmas boxset from the US.

retail around $200 here in US, its cheaper to buy it overseas from UK/Euro and have them ship it to you as the 120 pound=$160 conversion rate.

Thrown in for a Tau box. Even though the order seems to have gone through not sure if it will happen but have to see. Was thinking about a 2nd but that seemed like pushing my luck.

I think the issues are a combination of stock shortages and the discount is towards the top end GW usually does. I was expecting more like a 10-20% discount rather than 30%+.

sirisaacnuton wrote:
Refreshed webstore at 1:00, clicked on Preorders, clicked to the 2nd page of preorders, clicked on the Necron one, "No longer available online." I figured they'd go fast, but I didn't think they'd sell out in the US in the few seconds it took me to navigate to it and try to order. Unreal.

Same. I was refreshing the page like mad, the Necrons were gone in under a minute. If the one person hadn't shared that they snagged one, I'd have assumed it was a bug and the inventory level started at zero or something. Incredibly popular refresh of the range it appears!

the stuff in the Necron Box was sold out on the German website for a while now (and still is), no surprise that it was gone fast

I managed to snag a Necron box. I have a confirmation email, and nothing contradicting it yet.

By the time I completed the order, I checked back at the item page, and the Necron box was already sold out. It's availability was only for maybe a minute or two tops.

Does GW reserve items in your cart? Or has anyone had an instance where the item was in their cart and sold out before they could complete checkout?

I am surprised that a) it was live at 11:56 cst and b) the Necrons just flat out sold out...

This would be another candidate for: Let’s Print to Order...

But the big draw for me for that box is, as being new to the Necron range...it had units that were not in Indomitus (save warriors) and therefore useful in one batch. And the discount did not hurt at all.

 Big Mac wrote:
Attention: to those of you looking to buy the Christmas boxset from the US.

retail around $200 here in US, its cheaper to buy it overseas from UK/Euro and have them ship it to you as the 120 pound=$160 conversion rate.

From where? Webstores in the Uk sell GW at a discount, and are forbidden to ship outside the UK.


That $50-$60 minimum markup for those of us who don't live under the British Empire is just cruel.

 Sacredroach wrote:
I am surprised that a) it was live at 11:56 cst and b) the Necrons just flat out sold out...

This would be another candidate for: Let’s Print to Order...

But the big draw for me for that box is, as being new to the Necron range...it had units that were not in Indomitus (save warriors) and therefore useful in one batch. And the discount did not hurt at all.

One can hope...

GabrielV wrote:

Does GW reserve items in your cart? Or has anyone had an instance where the item was in their cart and sold out before they could complete checkout?

They don't. I put necron one in cart this morning, went into cart to checkout and it had message saying item in cart was now out of stock.
Luckily I was able to get from firestorm games for cheaper anyway. haha

Has there ever been a bundle as good as the Tzeentch one?
$210, but the LoC alone is $140, the alcoytes are 50$, and you basically get the tzaangors and enlighted for free, plus a discounted gaunt summoner.

Blastaar wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Attention: to those of you looking to buy the Christmas boxset from the US.

retail around $200 here in US, its cheaper to buy it overseas from UK/Euro and have them ship it to you as the 120 pound=$160 conversion rate.

From where? Webstores in the Uk sell GW at a discount, and are forbidden to ship outside the UK.


That $50-$60 minimum markup for those of us who don't live under the British Empire is just cruel.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BATTLEFORCE-ASTRA-MILITARUM-BASTION-PLATOON-PRE-ORDER/264955021307?hash=item3db08cc7fb:g:njwAAOSwH-BfwWOP

 GaroRobe wrote:
Has there ever been a bundle as good as the Tzeentch one?
$210, but the LoC alone is $140, the alcoytes are 50$, and you basically get the tzaangors and enlighted for free, plus a discounted gaunt summoner.

Is it really, though? They're overpriced to begin with, $210 is still more than they "should" be individually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mac wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Attention: to those of you looking to buy the Christmas boxset from the US.

retail around $200 here in US, its cheaper to buy it overseas from UK/Euro and have them ship it to you as the 120 pound=$160 conversion rate.

From where? Webstores in the Uk sell GW at a discount, and are forbidden to ship outside the UK.


That $50-$60 minimum markup for those of us who don't live under the British Empire is just cruel.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BATTLEFORCE-ASTRA-MILITARUM-BASTION-PLATOON-PRE-ORDER/264955021307?hash=item3db08cc7fb:g:njwAAOSwH-BfwWOP

Of course. Depending on what my LGS is able to sell it for, I may go that route.

buying from that ebay seller works out to more than what an informed american shopper would actually pay for these boxes (i.e. 15+% discount from US discount retailers)

chaos0xomega wrote:
buying from that ebay seller works out to more than what an informed american shopper would actually pay for these boxes (i.e. 15+% discount from US discount retailers)

Yep. It doesn't support an LGS, though.

 Overread wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not that they have lasted long ever. Gw models being expensive limited discount boxes always sell out for years. Gw deliberately keeping stock levels　low doesn't help

Yes thats why I got my Stormcast Christmas deal from last year in the summer.

Less than 24 to be sold out is the new GW and main reason I lost interest in Indomitus, DG heroes etc. Covid or not, understock or not all this means I will not buy. Simples.

It's less understock more underproduction. I'm sure GW would love to produce many many more than they have; the fact they sold out so fast compared to previous years is a clear sign that its part of this years's abnormalities due to production pressure. We've seen that on almost everything produced this year alone, even regular models have been falling out of stock faster than normal. We also don't know if they are going to do production and restock waves or not either; which tye might to try and tease out the production pressure whilst they don't have as many machines and packers able to simply dedicate to the task in one big go.

I get that, thats why I said whatever the reason was its still a turn off for my shopping trends.

If they are going to do 2 waves of Nurgle heroes or Christmas bundles etc cool, but by the time they go online and announce this, the money is gone elsewhere, specially in Christmas.
Its not me moaning I get its difficult times its more like I expect this to be the new GW norm and I doubt I will get involved in buying popular items anytime soon.
Theres plenty to buy even at GW.

I do fear the level of frustration will be increasing among clients though. Like, Indomitus wave of discontent is not good.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Not that they have lasted long ever. Gw models being expensive limited discount boxes always sell out for years. Gw deliberately keeping stock levels　low doesn't help

Yes thats why I got my Stormcast Christmas deal from last year in the summer.

Less than 24 to be sold out is the new GW and main reason I lost interest in Indomitus, DG heroes etc. Covid or not, understock or not all this means I will not buy. Simples.

It's less understock more underproduction. I'm sure GW would love to produce many many more than they have; the fact they sold out so fast compared to previous years is a clear sign that its part of this years's abnormalities due to production pressure. We've seen that on almost everything produced this year alone, even regular models have been falling out of stock faster than normal. We also don't know if they are going to do production and restock waves or not either; which tye might to try and tease out the production pressure whilst they don't have as many machines and packers able to simply dedicate to the task in one big go.

I get that, thats why I said whatever the reason was its still a turn off for my shopping trends.

If they are going to do 2 waves of Nurgle heroes or Christmas bundles etc cool, but by the time they go online and announce this, the money is gone elsewhere, specially in Christmas.
Its not me moaning I get its difficult times its more like I expect this to be the new GW norm and I doubt I will get involved in buying popular items anytime soon.
Theres plenty to buy even at GW.

I do fear the level of frustration will be increasing among clients though. Like, Indomitus wave of discontent is not good.

Many game companies are making it more difficult for people to buy and play their games. Terrible long-term strategy.

Another thing to consider is that our buying habits have likely exacerbated the situation. We all lived through the great toilet paper crisis of 2020 and none of us wanted to find ourselves w/o miniatures as well as TP. I bet some people who might have waited on Indomitus/Christmas bundle and ended possibly even not buying any at all in previous years got in super early to buy three of each this year due to acute FOMO. This goes double for scalpers.

Sigh, if I can't get it through my local shop or a US based online shop I'm just not buying, then.

I can wait, and I don't really need any of this stuff. Only thing I really want this weekend that isn't a fomo/deal thing is the Gladiator, but vehicles currently kinda stink so I can wait for that as well.

Ordered the ‘Nid one from my local store. That’s my winter built project right there.

Well, one of them. Need to grab the new tank and a box of assault intercessors, but less worry about those running out, so I might just wait and grab them online, or from another FLGS. I try to spread my spending around.

And am still waiting for the Heavy intercessors and bladeguard vet kits. It’s getting pretty spendy around here, hopefully those can wait a bit.

Update for central time ~14:00 at International Shop: Only the IG Platoon is still around on the 40K catalogue.

As of AoS, I think they haven't run out KO yet because it lacks the Ironclad from the last one.

'Tis would be a terrible Chrstimas for me if I celebrated it: I never have the chance to grab a Tau Battleforce, and I'm quite sure they will get no more unless they are a star faction for next year.

I am starting to believe they are understocked because the pandemic. 50/50 they will make a reprint, but it will still sell fast and severely understocked.

I'm amused that the Xenos/Chaos bundles sold out already, but the imperial ones haven't (on the US shop).

Over-saturation is real.

 Sacredroach wrote:
But the big draw for me for that box is, as being new to the Necron range...it had units that were not in Indomitus (save warriors) and therefore useful in one batch. And the discount did not hurt at all.

As a Necron player myself, I would have totally recommended that Xmas Battleforce to a new player, or to add to Indomitus.

 Big Mac wrote:
Attention: to those of you looking to buy the Christmas boxset from the US.

retail around $200 here in US, its cheaper to buy it overseas from UK/Euro and have them ship it to you as the 120 pound=$160 conversion rate.

Except that all GW shops in Europe are not allowed to ship to the USA and will cancel your preorder as soon as it actually is ready to ship thus taking you away from ordering elsewhere if that was the only place that you ordered through.It is nice because europe also gets a discount off their already lower price from most their shops but we can't get europes retail price or their sale price which is about 30-40 percent off retail US prices.

GW likes to overcharge their inflated fake conversion rates on everyone outside of europe. So please don't advise anyone to do this as they will get screwed. Known from personal experience in trying to order from Europe like this so even if they take your order.... they will NOT fulfill it and you will get a refund two weeks later and won't be able to preorder from anyone else thus losing the deal and the product in cases like these.

 CMLR wrote:
Update for central time ~14:00 at International Shop: Only the IG Platoon is still around on the 40K catalogue.

As of AoS, I think they haven't run out KO yet because it lacks the Ironclad from the last one.

'Tis would be a terrible Chrstimas for me if I celebrated it: I never have the chance to grab a Tau Battleforce, and I'm quite sure they will get no more unless they are a star faction for next year.

I am starting to believe they are understocked because the pandemic. 50/50 they will make a reprint, but it will still sell fast and severely understocked.

The original KO battleforce didn't have an Ironclad, it had a Gunhauler, Frigate, Endrinriggers, Arkanauts and an Admiral. The new one is a decent step up, swapping the arkanauts for another Gunhauler, adds another unit of Endrinriggers, and a $10 upgrade on the HQ.

I think this kit is hurt by the fact that the Aetherwar box scratched a similar itch and the HQ locks you into a specific skyfleet. Also, the AoS boxes almost sell more slowly than the 40K sets.

Blastaar wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
buying from that ebay seller works out to more than what an informed american shopper would actually pay for these boxes (i.e. 15+% discount from US discount retailers)

Yep. It doesn't support an LGS, though.

I'd love to support my LGS, but when I tried to preorder from them, they flat out told me they weren't ordering any AoS boxes, only the 40K ones, despite me directly asking for the Tzeentch box.

Wonder if there options were “all or none” for each game system?

Seems quite possible, as I’m sure they’d have ordered you one if not?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wonder if there options were “all or none” for each game system?

Seems quite possible, as I’m sure they’d have ordered you one if not?

The wording they used sounded more like a case of them having already submitted their order, deciding the AoS boxes wouldn't move so they didn't order any, and being unwilling to do an additional/change order just for a single customer.

Regardless of the actual circumstances, the result is still the same: I can't get it from them and thus I have to take my money to NOT them.

I can't believe anyone saw that Tzeentch boxed set and didn't think it would sell. Meanwhile the Gloomspite sold out really fast last year and was basically a very similar box so 50% of the AoS are strong sellers. The other two (esp ogors) might not have been seen to sell as fast, but they could have just not ordered them.

I mean at least unless their entire market is only served by locals and you've a very tiny AoS fanbase. Ergo no online store (not even an ebay or such for losing excess stock); and a very small non-growing playerbase

Surprising as it may seem, there are people who aren't in to GW products and have no real idea whether a particular box is a good or bad deal. Some of them even own shops too.

> Production shortage or “underestimated demand”

> Doesn’t limit to 1 per customer


lol

‘Ere.....you might call me slow off the mark....

But wot, no mega paint set? During a pandemic, when we’ve little else to do than Hobby?

angel of death 007 wrote:
GW likes to overcharge their inflated fake conversion rates on everyone outside of europe.

Currency conversion rates are just one factor companies take into account when setting prices in different countries and GW are heavily criticised for simply doing the reverse of what normally happens with goods sold in the UK and US. . The vast majority of companies charge much higher prices in the UK than they do in the the US.

Derek H wrote:
Currency conversion rates are just one factor companies take into account when setting prices in different countries and GW are heavily criticised for simply doing the reverse of what normally happens with goods sold in the UK and US. . The vast majority of companies charge much higher prices in the UK than they do in the the US.

this has also do to with the Wargaming Scene in the UK, as the UK is the home of many historical clubs and scenes and GW had always cut the price in the UK to have a chance to get people in because if you plastic is double the price of other companies metal models, you don't have a chance
there is a lot more competition within the UK as within EU or the US

hence why GW don't like the free market as it prevents them from setting prices for each country based on the local competition (also reason, among others, why many things moved to GW Mail Order only as there they can control the price by adding "shipping fees")

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
‘Ere.....you might call me slow off the mark....

But wot, no mega paint set? During a pandemic, when we’ve little else to do than Hobby?

Agree, this would be the ideal time for that sort of products.

Or themed paint sets with themed paints and bases, terrain etc

Element to the rescue on that count. Complete set of Contrast Paints for £141ish.

Already well into the build phase of my Gitz, and intending/hoping to get the Wraith Bone coat onto the Squig Herds and Hoppers in time for the paints arriving.

Should I get lucky and bag one of their three Catachan Colonels, I’ll have to do something with him, as I’ve already got one.

I was able to nab a Tzeentch box from Poland off eBay for $189 shipped. Remains to be seen whether he can actually ship it with the COVID restrictions, but I was able to get a few sets of PoTW Meganobz for dirt cheap from Poland back in the summer so he should be able to ship it unless the international shipping restrictions have gotten worse there.

Or if he gets box to begin with. Seems　some stores have already cancelled orders　quoting gw sending less than store had asked

 zend wrote:
> Production shortage or “underestimated demand”

> Doesn’t limit to 1 per customer


lol

In fairness the only Battleforces that've historically flown off the shelves were the Primaris ones. I think even the Space Wolf one last year was around well into February and several last over a year.

But with their reduction production and people desperate to buy anything with a GW sticker on it, their foresight was terribly lacking.

In fairness we don't actually know how bad the whole scalper issue is. We also have to remember that every time GW does "1 box per customer" any dedicated scalper will work out ways around it. Heck even regular people can often find tricks around that (eg same address, different person in the household; or same street/block address or a neighbour etc...)

GW at least sees the raw sales data so they have a far better potential to know how multi-buyers have actual impact; at least when they show the same address/order in bulk

Each time they do "1 per customer" it does use up more of a scalper's time to work around it.

Ideally, they wouldn't announce it beforehand, and only show it on the pre-order page, then the scalpers can't have workarounds ready in advance...

 Overread wrote:
In fairness we don't actually know how bad the whole scalper issue is. We also have to remember that every time GW does "1 box per customer" any dedicated scalper will work out ways around it. Heck even regular people can often find tricks around that (eg same address, different person in the household; or same street/block address or a neighbour etc...)

GW at least sees the raw sales data so they have a far better potential to know how multi-buyers have actual impact; at least when they show the same address/order in bulk

I think the difference is that a sizeable chunk of scalpers won't go to the length of multiple accounts/bots to try and secure their loot. I imagine many of them are just people eager to make a few extra quid rather than trying to run it as a lifestyle. That chunk 'saved' from the more casual scalpers is a chunk going to people who actually want the product for the product's sake.

I don't think GW really cares much about scalpers beyond frustrated customers resultant from the bad PR. Obviously there's fifty bajillion Space Marine players who wanted Indomitus, so they couldn't really ignore the amount of fall out from that, but less so a few packs of Necromunda cards and Siege of Terra special editions. If anything they probably see scalping as 'driving up the value of their product' and encouraging people to be parked at their website at 09:59.

GW just wants all their stuff sold, they don't care what people do with the models afterwards

everything that helps selling it and keeps the prices high is welcome

Right. They only care that SOMEONE buys their product directly. Most companies do.

But a billion dollar company that knows there’s going to be a supply/demand issue can and should implement purchase limits with an IP checker and an in cart reserve system on their website. Better yet, if they can’t be bothered to pay someone to do those basic website features, they should just make the product made to order so there’s no supply/demand issue at all! Sure, people won’t get them in time for the holidays, but that’s more of an issue in that they intend it to be a gift product yet only opened up the orders exactly one month before the holiday.

I get that COVID majorly fethed up their production and release schedule, but that doesn’t excuse them from using the data they have from every pre-COVID release to gauge demand (reminder that every single limited box set last year had supply issues) and again they can just ignore the supply problem by making them MTO in the first place, and all demand is met.

a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?
(not even thinking that IP blocking does not work in Europe that way as there is no fixed IP per user but for the provider and blocking the IP a website sees will block a million other users from the same provider in the same region as well)

 zend wrote:

I get that COVID majorly fethed up their production and release schedule, but that doesn’t excuse them from using the data they have from every pre-COVID release to gauge demand (reminder that every single limited box set last year had supply issues) and again they can just ignore the supply problem by making them MTO in the first place, and all demand is met.

2 mistakes here
first they did thought about the demand based on based experience, hence why Necrons are already gone, because there was much less interest for them in the past
that a new Codex and new Models help sales is something GW haven't got yet after 30 years and never will

second one is to think that they want to meet the demand, this is not a fan service but a storage clearing sale, they want to stuff to be gone and the most expensive part of it for GW are the printed cardboard boxes
so they only order enough boxes in sommer what they think (based on based sales) is going to be sold out soon

if they made all the boxes made to order they'd get further and further behind on their restocks of existing stuff

and all we'd be able to get wold be made to orders with 6 month delivery windows

 kodos wrote:
a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?

Fairly sure this is deliberate? You don't just change currency on the GW store do you, you're selecting where your stock will be dispatched from, and they have different stock around the globe

Plus made to order over that many sets and armies would be insane. They'd cripple themselves and flood their own market with loads of people splitting kits. It would be easier on that many kits with that much focus to just give a year old discount on the actual kits that comprise the battleforce. It would net sales, but wouldn't have the panic buying power impact that Christmas boxed sets bring.


Made to Order won't happen; however I can well envision a second wave/second production run or even that GW held stock back to spread it out.We also have to consider that the internet stock sold out, but physical stock hasn't and that might make a huge difference.
I recall after Indomitus there was a fair number of sets around in physical stores for a reasonable length of time.



That said we've no idea what GW's back end of production looks like right now. We know its not as good as normal in terms of output; but we've no idea how much pressure they are under in terms of how much room they've got to do stuff like this.

IP Trackers etc.

Amazon don’t bother, why should GW?

Yes I am a would-be disgruntled PS5 owner.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
IP Trackers etc.

Amazon don’t bother, why should GW?

Yes I am a would-be disgruntled PS5 owner.

NGL, 90% of my complaint stems from salt over me having a PS5 in my cart on Best Buy’s site and losing it because they sold out in the 5 seconds it took my checkout to process. The complaint is applicable to both.


But anyways, GW has had record high profits for the past 4 years. They could reinvest in more factories to ramp up production, and the idea that they would have to halt all other releases to do MTO is bollocks. Give people a week to order the box sets like they did with Indomitus and every other MTO product they’ve done. Have dedicated machines and crew for that MTO product, everything else is business as normal. It’s what they’ve been doing since they started MTO lol

 zend wrote:
They could reinvest in more factories to ramp up production, and the idea that they would have to halt all other releases to do MTO is bollocks.

They did - bought the land, built the factory*. They also invested in a huge new warehousing storage site as well.

However all this I think came online at the start of 2020. You know the year of the pandemic. What's making GW struggle right now is that their factory and packing and warehouse can't house as many staff all at once as normal. Plus other things like one-way systems. They basically can't rebuild their entire operation for what might only be 1-2 years of disruption (assuming vaccines work in 2021); so they have to lump it along with us with seriously reduced performance; a 3 month backlog; a market of existing customers that are buying MORE than normal as well.

Basically its a huge double hit of less production and more consumers.

We've already noted several times in this thread that Christmas Bundles do NOT sell out tihs fast normally and that many last months into the new year and some even last the entire year. Meanwhile we know that Made to Order Indomitus did impact them because it wasn't planned for yet GW did it at the same time as having Covid restrictions and being shut down for 3 months before that. Don't forget when the GW webstore came back onilne after the first lockdown they closed the webstore each night. Likely so that they could at least keep a handle on orders coming in each day and feel like they were making progress and to also likely cut down on people making multiple smaller orders and encourage people to make singular bigger ones etc...


GW aren't alone in this - other miniature firms have felt the pressure of this year. Creature Caster running out of stock fiarly regularly on popular things; Warcradle up and cancelled the multi-year awaited relaunch of Dystopian Wars (though its had a bonus as now core ships are coming in plastic next year).



* I see to recall the value of £9million for land and factory being reported when they announced it in their shareholders minutes. That value might well have gone up as the project went on. Suffice to say it was a serious investment and a new factory means higher upkeep costs and more staff etc...

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?

Fairly sure this is deliberate? You don't just change currency on the GW store do you, you're selecting where your stock will be dispatched from, and they have different stock around the globe

the reason is that they have fixed prices for each country therefore they cannot use a normal currency translation tool using real exchange rates
yet for the money they paid, having a website that would update the shopping cart accordingly (not only with prices but also stock) instead of just deleting it should have been possible

 zend wrote:

But a billion dollar company that knows there’s going to be a supply/demand issue can and should implement purchase limits with an IP checker and an in cart reserve system on their website. Better yet, if they can’t be bothered to pay someone to do those basic website features, they should just make the product made to order so there’s no supply/demand issue at all! Sure, people won’t get them in time for the holidays, but that’s more of an issue in that they intend it to be a gift product yet only opened up the orders exactly one month before the holiday.
.

Assumption there being GW wants to sell DISCOUNT boxes a ton...Rather than selling just some for goodwill PR(the nu-GW is basically old GW with improved PR department) but mostly at full price.

Why sell kit for 70% when you can sell it for 100%?

tneva82 wrote:


Assumption there being GW wants to sell DISCOUNT boxes a ton...Rather than selling just some for goodwill PR(the nu-GW is basically old GW with improved PR department) but mostly at full price.

Why sell kit for 70% when you can sell it for 100%?

These limited run boxes are a great way to get people to start new armies, which means further sales down the line.

I also disagree with the posts saying that GW doesn't care who they get sold to. reputation matters, and if someone who frequents a FLGS constantly hears Warhammer fans (rightfully) bitiching about GWs practices and scalpers it's going to put them off. They'd much rather that person hear about what a good deal these boxes are and how they are a great way to get into the hobby, and for that person to then have the ability to actually buy one

 kodos wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?

Fairly sure this is deliberate? You don't just change currency on the GW store do you, you're selecting where your stock will be dispatched from, and they have different stock around the globe

the reason is that they have fixed prices for each country therefore they cannot use a normal currency translation tool using real exchange rates
yet for the money they paid, having a website that would update the shopping cart accordingly (not only with prices but also stock) instead of just deleting it should have been possible

I disagree with this on a bunch of levels really, there's really no need to preserve the shopping basket between regions because they have different stock and in some cases product ranges available and it's really not intended for customers to change between them often. You're meant to pick your locale on entering the store and stick with it. They may well have separate database objects behind the scenes for these different locales, and having something that updates your basket with current stock levels between them may well be more complex than you appreciate. I mean, if Amazon doesn't do it, why be surprised that Games Workshop don't do it

Amazon shouldn't be used as any kind of benchmark, their functionality is awful (by design, to squeeze an extra few pence out of users).

They're the biggest e-commerce business on the planet, so I'm quite comfortable using them as a benchmark, but you do you

I disagree with this on a bunch of levels really, there's really no need to use a dysfunctional system as your benchmark just because that system is used by the biggest e-commerce business on the planet. Why not use a better system used by a smaller company as the benchmark?

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?

Fairly sure this is deliberate? You don't just change currency on the GW store do you, you're selecting where your stock will be dispatched from, and they have different stock around the globe

the reason is that they have fixed prices for each country therefore they cannot use a normal currency translation tool using real exchange rates
yet for the money they paid, having a website that would update the shopping cart accordingly (not only with prices but also stock) instead of just deleting it should have been possible

I disagree with this on a bunch of levels really, there's really no need to preserve the shopping basket between regions because they have different stock and in some cases product ranges available and it's really not intended for customers to change between them often. You're meant to pick your locale on entering the store and stick with it. They may well have separate database objects behind the scenes for these different locales, and having something that updates your basket with current stock levels between them may well be more complex than you appreciate. I mean, if Amazon doesn't do it, why be surprised that Games Workshop don't do it

Fine if shop country would stay same. Less funny when you go there and shop is on it's own switched to austalia or whatever.

Now albeit i don't know how crappy code gw shop is. If it's any half decent shouldn't take too much effort. I know i could anyway

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
a company that paid 5 Millions for a website that resets all your settings/shopping cart if you change the currency should get an IP tracker?

Fairly sure this is deliberate? You don't just change currency on the GW store do you, you're selecting where your stock will be dispatched from, and they have different stock around the globe

the reason is that they have fixed prices for each country therefore they cannot use a normal currency translation tool using real exchange rates
yet for the money they paid, having a website that would update the shopping cart accordingly (not only with prices but also stock) instead of just deleting it should have been possible

I disagree with this on a bunch of levels really, there's really no need to preserve the shopping basket between regions because they have different stock and in some cases product ranges available and it's really not intended for customers to change between them often. You're meant to pick your locale on entering the store and stick with it. They may well have separate database objects behind the scenes for these different locales, and having something that updates your basket with current stock levels between them may well be more complex than you appreciate. I mean, if Amazon doesn't do it, why be surprised that Games Workshop don't do it

big difference with Amazon is that there are different websites and I need a different account to actually switch between regions
while people still selling in GBP on the German website that gets converted to Euro

yet GW let me switch between Germany and Austria on their website, with the stuff always being send from Germany anyway and the difference is the shipping cost but the the basket still resets each time the you do it (which you need to do because the default shops you get switches on its own between different versions)

something that actually works with Amazon as it does not matter if I enter der German or Austrian website, the basket is not deleted if I switch the country but shipping costs and stock availability is updated

use Amazon as a Benchmark and the GW online shop fails on the very basic things the Amazon Website can do

 kodos wrote:

big difference with Amazon is that there are different websites and I need a different account to actually switch between regions
while people still selling in GBP on the German website that gets converted to Euro

Do you though? Albeit　haven't checked have i set them same　password manually but for both .co.uk and .co.jp i get in via same email/20+ random char password.

Got me curious enough that i'll try setting new password to one and see if other changes

I think from GW's point of view does their website need the feature in the first place. Amazon cross delivers into different territories. GW doesn't, they even block 3rd parties delivering their products outside of their region.

So from GW's point of view you log into the GW store in the country you're in and you order from that store. There's no need for you to change the region or country setting and preserve your inventory. It's just not a feature they would consider important or needed to bother having it.

 Overread wrote:
I think from GW's point of view does their website need the feature in the first place. Amazon cross delivers into different territories. GW doesn't, they even block 3rd parties delivering their products outside of their region.

So from GW's point of view you log into the GW store in the country you're in and you order from that store. There's no need for you to change the region or country setting and preserve your inventory. It's just not a feature they would consider important or needed to bother having it.

Now if only they would actually KEEP the country setting then. Yo( say no need to change region. Why i then need to keep switching back to finland?

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:

big difference with Amazon is that there are different websites and I need a different account to actually switch between regions
while people still selling in GBP on the German website that gets converted to Euro

Do you though? Albeit　haven't checked have i set them same　password manually but for both .co.uk and .co.jp i get in via same email/20+ random char password.

Got me curious enough that i'll try setting new password to one and see if other changes

I needed a different account for Amazon Spain, UK while Austria and Germany is the same

could be possible it changed now, did not tried it recently

I’ve never had it switch on me, are you sure it’s a problem with the GW site and not something on your own computer (cookies, caches, clearing history?)?

I mean a 1 day "Made to Order Christmas special" would do wonders for PR.

 DominayTrix wrote:
I mean a 1 day "Made to Order Christmas special" would do wonders for PR.

Until all those who didn't spot it for that 1 day complain.

And it would be a production disaster for GW right now - Indomitus was 1 set for 2 armies. Even ignoring those who wanted it just for the free rulebook and sold both halves that's still nothing compared to 8 full army packs across 8 different armies. Heck even in a normal year going made to order on those bundles would be a massive task for GW to produce.

Made to Order volumes would be huge, esp since every product in them is regular retail products with long shelf life. You'd have a lot of people buy into them on made to order just to stock up for reselling.


It's a no-win situation for GW. A second wave of known quantity is potentially possible and might happen, its at least got more practical chance.


Or we accept this is what 2020 and corona has given us and we wait for 2021 and the vaccine and next Christmas when things should hopefully be more normal.

I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Because they are a business and want to make money. The Christmas bundles are to spur on new army builds, they are not meant to actually save you money in the long haul. If they kept them available all the time then people would just buy these boxes and their full priced individual units would sit collecting dust on the shelves. This is to help them get a quick influx of money right before Christmas without having to retool anything or develop anything new.

We all would like to save money on an existing army, but that is what the start collecting boxes are to GW. These are just panic buy plastic crack bundles to get people addicted to a whole new army.

off topic, never mind

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

tneva82 wrote:

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

In the past though X was clearly a much bigger value than X for 2020. In the past they did not sell out in a day online for any of the bundles (if they did then it was 1 exception). GW would make far more normally and sell them in one go.

That's why some think they "could" do two waves or such this year, as an exception, because they could not produce the bulk of kits fast enough for a one launch release. But its only a possible action and it might not come to be. If it did then considering where we are in the year a second wave, if not already planned for, would not come until after Christmas, even for the UK; overseas would be longer still.

considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

Not Online!!! wrote:
considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

But for what real gain? The only ones that gain are resellers.
Scarcity would only work if GW could use it to leverage higher and higher prices and whilst they do raise the prices, scarcity has never been a component of that marketing nor approach; they just raise the prices.

Otherwise yes it might help things sell out fast, but GW products aren't video games or DVD's. They don't devalue and get replaced within a year. Heck Skaven are still running around with first generation plastics - kits 10-20 years old and if anything they might even profit, per sale, more off them now than in the past. If not then they are least have lost no margin of sale. So GW isn't under the same pressure as those markets.

Providing GW can keep getting new customers and existing ones can be convinced to start new armies; GW will have a constant stream of sales on almost every model line - at least provided they don't repeat mistakes of the past (eg leaving model lines without updates/marketing/attention/rules for long periods of time).

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

But for what real gain? The only ones that gain are resellers.
Scarcity would only work if GW could use it to leverage higher and higher prices and whilst they do raise the prices, scarcity has never been a component of that marketing nor approach; they just raise the prices.

Otherwise yes it might help things sell out fast, but GW products aren't video games or DVD's. They don't devalue and get replaced within a year. Heck Skaven are still running around with first generation plastics - kits 10-20 years old and if anything they might even profit, per sale, more off them now than in the past. If not then they are least have lost no margin of sale. So GW isn't under the same pressure as those markets.

Providing GW can keep getting new customers and existing ones can be convinced to start new armies; GW will have a constant stream of sales on almost every model line - at least provided they don't repeat mistakes of the past (eg leaving model lines without updates/marketing/attention/rules for long periods of time).

Players buy same kits with full price rather than 70% price. It's not like GW is struggling to shift their kits...

My firestorm order for necron Eradication legion has been 'picked'. So should be on it's way soon

GW seems to really love the limited production bait and switch recently. It seems counterproductive to me in that you piss off as many people or more than you make happy, but I'm obviously not an advertising executive and I'm sure they think they know what they're doing.

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW seems to really love the limited production bait and switch recently. It seems counterproductive to me in that you piss off as many people or more than you make happy, but I'm obviously not an advertising executive and I'm sure they think they know what they're doing.

Where's the bait and switch?


As covered (multiple times now) short falls on production are more due to Corona safety measures and significant reduction of factory output than it is a marketing choice. Heck GW likely had the choice on the table - limited bundles or no bundles at all (since they could well afford the extra production time to keep current kits more in stock than they currently are). We've years of Christmas bundles not selling out on launch day and many lasting well into the new year (and some making it all the way through the year) to know that this is abnormal.

I wasn't suggesting they're deliberately making so few of them that they sell out within one day. I don't think even GW's marketing people would think *that* was a good idea. Even when companies deliberately manipulate supply to create hype, they don't limit supply that drastically.

But they knew perfectly well these were going to sell out right away, and so it was a bit of a bait and switch to big them up via the marketing apparatus and big up the savings and then say "oh well oops, most of you can't actually get one since we don't have enough, and we won't be making more either, LOL better luck next year, in the meantime why not buy some full price sets?" It was bad enough what they did for indomitus, but at least then they could hide behind the fiction that they didn't realize how much demand there was going to be.

The non-bait-and-switch thing would be to have either been up-front about the fact that they had an extremely limited number of them and they were going to sell out effectively instantly, or to let anyone who wanted one order one up to X date like they eventually ended up doing with indomitus, or to distribute them via a lottery, or basically anything other than what they did.

yukishiro1 wrote:


The non-bait-and-switch thing would be to have either been up-front about the fact that they had an extremely limited number of them and they were going to sell out effectively instantly, or to let anyone who wanted one order one up to X date like they eventually ended up doing with indomitus, or to distribute them via a lottery, or basically anything other than what they did.

I don't think you quite get what bait and switch is in terms of shops.

Typically its used when a company advertises one product and then does not deliver that product. So for GW to be baiting and switching it would mean advertising a Tzeentch boxed set, selling you a Tzeentch boxed set and when you open it up you get a brick. That would be baiting and switching.


Running out of stock isn't baiting and switching and I can guarantee you any of the other ideas would have backfired worse most likely. If they said "hey this year stock is even more limited buy fast" do you think anything would have been any different? Lotteries and other methods would have generated just as much ire and complaint and, again, no one would have magically got more stock through it.
Heck we already know that GW is understocked you can look at the general stock levels and the "running out soon" lists they've got up right now.


In the end it was a short term discount deal like any other retailer runs and when the stock is gone its gone.



I get that its annoying to not get one, but in the end here's no models you've missed out on; no exclusive content. It's a bundle deal we'll get them later in 2021 again I'm sure. Heck if they do another big Apoc rules set release we might get some awesome ones like the last time. Plus don't discount physical store stock and ebay.

But they were pretty clear about that, they said quite a few times "act fast", "when they are gone they are gone", and "quantities are limited".

I really don't understand what this community needs GW to do to not go all surprised pikachu every time they release one of these things and people struggle to get ahold of them. This isn't our first rodeo as customers, this crap sells out pretty quick every year (although yes, this was the fastest I've ever seen - usually there are still some of the less desirable boxes left on their webstore at this point as opposed to a complete sell out), but one box always happens to go a good bit faster than the others and disappears within the first few minutes of going up online.

 Overread wrote:


Typically its used when a company advertises one product and then does not deliver that product. So for GW to be baiting and switching it would mean advertising a Tzeentch boxed set, selling you a Tzeentch boxed set and when you open it up you get a brick. That would be baiting and switching.

Uh no, that is straight-up and simple fraud. Bait and switch is when you get people into the store with an offer you know you can't meet demand for only to then say "well actually, all we have is this other thing instead" that isn't as good a deal.

For example:

Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by salespeople to consider similar, but higher-priced items ("switching").

Advertising a discount deal you know won't last and that will be out of stock when most people show up to buy it is classic bait-and-switch. You can technically avoid legal liability by saying magic words like "quantities are limited" but that just means you've accomplished a legal bait-and-switch, not that you haven't advertised something you know you can't deliver on to get people hyped to buy something from you.

But I don't want to argue definitions with someone on the internet, that's always a waste of time.

 Theophony wrote:

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Because they are a business and want to make money. The Christmas bundles are to spur on new army builds, they are not meant to actually save you money in the long haul. If they kept them available all the time then people would just buy these boxes and their full priced individual units would sit collecting dust on the shelves. This is to help them get a quick influx of money right before Christmas without having to retool anything or develop anything new.

We all would like to save money on an existing army, but that is what the start collecting boxes are to GW. These are just panic buy plastic crack bundles to get people addicted to a whole new army.

tneva82 wrote:
Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

I didn’t mean to imply that these should be part of the standard catalog. I was thinking if the boxes with the art work are the limiting factor and if they sell out in under an hour then maybe make the individual parts if not in the same box available at the same discount to everyone to order for a set time be it a day or weekend. If the Indomitus box can get a second print run why can’t these? They’re all limited discounted box sets and the parts in the Indomitus box where not on the shelf.

I think the main thing is GW is absolutely terrified of discounts generally. They never, ever put anything on sale, because their marketing is that they're a "premium" brand and premium brands don't go on sale. All discounts have to be trussed up as a "bundle" to avoid brand devaluation. They'll do what are effectively doorbusters because they're so effective, but they are always really careful to avoid anything that smacks of permanent, year-round discounts.

Even the "start collecting" boxes are usually very carefully designed so there is at least one unit (usually a character) that people aren't going to want more than one of, which not coincidentally is exactly what is thrown in on top of the normal price - so you can buy a single start collecting box and get a deal, but any more and you're actually not paying any less than you would to buy things separately, you're just getting one very cheap to produce and effectively duplicative character on top of it.

Overread, how would you describe the situation with Space Marine Heroes 3: The Nurglefication?

I don't recall anything in the WHC articles leading up to the release weekend indicating anything about it being a single wave of releases, and when they're gone they're gone, yet that's what happened.

In all seriousness, I dislike the way GW releases limited stock and such as much anyone. That said at the start, they do this every year. If I want one I talk to my local store and usually make sure to get the one I want, this year I actually didn't want anything from it has been a few years since I wanted a holiday bundle actually.

Try not to let it get to you, nothing limited in it to get bent out of shape over. You want to show GW you are angry ? Stop buying their stuff, nothing else speaks to these companies and if you won't do that, they'll just do what they do.

And what GW is doing is smol smol fishies compared to the nonsense "sneakerhead" community/companies get up to. GW would love to sell you as much as possible, they just didnt have stock at hand. Sneaker companies go into it knowing there wont be anywhere near enough pairs to satisfy demand on purpose.

 Overread wrote:

I get that its annoying to not get one, but in the end here's no models you've missed out on; no exclusive content. It's a bundle deal we'll get them later in 2021 again I'm sure.

well for the Necrons, here the Guard and the Spider were already out of stock long before the Box came in, and still are

so if you wanted for whatever reason to use any of the Elite Guard units or the Spider, the Box was your only chance to get them

which is not only covid related but GW still not getting that new Codex+new Models is a big boost in sales for non-Space Marines as well (as the SM models are still in stock so you just miss out the discount if you wanted all of them)

For anyone looking in the UK, my FLGS has added their stock to their website. All sets are currently still available. I grabbed a Space Marine and Necron one.

Games Workshop marketing closely matches Disney's. Limited runs of items because they don't have to compete to capture sales- if you're willing to pay 200 for a discounted box, you're probably not willing to buy slightly lower quality alternatives from competing companies at 1/2 the price.

And this isn't just a Christmas thing. GW has been almost instantly selling out of limited runs since Space Hulk. Indomitus was another very recent example. They know their demand, and they're deliberately underproducing because they make most of their sales before the product even hits their factory. If you don't have to pay to store product, it's higher profit. The only possible loss are the customers who don't have the chance to buy your limited product- but much of the time they're galvanized to buy faster next time instead of giving up. People are strange, but GW has the number of its fans.

Indomitus wasn't deliberate. If it was - there wouldn't have been made to order.
I'm more annoyed about all the cards/dice being so limited. Yeah, these bundles are great deal, sure, but you can pretty much get everything separately if you really need it.
I was forced to sell all my Necromunda, just because I couldn't get the whole collection as the cards were instantly bought by scalpers.

Aren't the Necromunda cards just reference materials for things in the rulebooks? Or did they pull some of the same bs they did with Titanicus (and Aeronautica?) where the cards contain unique content?

The cards are unique content, but also not really required. They’re like the blood bowl cards if you’ve played that.

Nope, haven't touched blood bowl. Haven't even really touched Necromunda, I've been buying the books for fluff and background more than for the game, though I've been interested in actually playing for some time.

Kinda sucks that I'm gated out of being able to get the full experience by limited availability product with unique content though, I've been lucky enough to grab up everything for AI and AT, but even that has me kinda livid that they would do something that is so objectively anti-consumer and anti-gamer.

Aaaaand its gone.

For people still looking for these - well, other than the Necron and Tzeentch ones - it looks like my LGS has a few still in stock.

Hope it helps.

In the US, have anyone's Christmas boxes shipped from GW? Mine has been showing "Delivery starts in 6 days" for as long as I've been checking, which was 6 days ago.

They're arms deep in Christmas shipping.

GabrielV wrote:
In the US, have anyone's Christmas boxes shipped from GW? Mine has been showing "Delivery starts in 6 days" for as long as I've been checking, which was 6 days ago.

If it's any consolation, I'm in the UK and mine's not shipped either! It's curious, as I'd ordered some other stuff from the store on Saturday and that arrived today, standard delivery too.

They said a while ago they weren't guaranteeing anything ordered after Dec. 4th to be delivered by Christmas. Presumably that also means anything ordered before that will also end up significantly delayed.

The mailorder I ordered from sent a note last saturday, that they have been informed by GW that the delivery is delayed... they wanted to get back with more info mid week.
Soooo... maybe in time for Christmas? New year? Easter?

Not Online!!! wrote:
considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

GW's competition is the second hand market.

They have an interest in selling boxes at a premium in limited supply, it's a chance to cash in at full price for things people would otherwise wait and buy at a discount.

By hyping it up and selling at a slight discount, they are capturing revenue that would otherwise go to someone on eBay. Buyers still feel like they're getting a deal.

Dont really know where to post this... but just wanted to let you know that If you live nearby Chelmsford the Space marines heroes Nurgle set, that sold out in less than 24h, can be found in the GW Chelmsford store, I got 1 full box and there was still 3 full boxes there.

Also items that are sold out on online store are there.

Its not technically a Christmas bundle but its nice bundle for Christmas.

XD

OK, just received an eMail from the mailorder I ordered. No boxes. GW has cut the deliveries short and they won't receive what they were promised.
At least they offered to deliver the single boxes, for the price of the battlebox. Mighty nice offer, but it will take a few weeks as the single boxes are sold out too.
My pile of shame is ok with it though and I don't mind if I receive the stuff january/february.
Hope you guys have more luck!

Not an ideal result, but props to your dealer for excellent customer service!

I had contacted GW customer service. I got a response back that things were still moving, but everything was delayed and moving slowly due to COVID. And that's a fine enough answer for now.

But the order still shows "Delivery starts in 6 days"

I'm in the UK, my order only just shipped last night - definitely seems like they've had some issues with these?

 Garfield666 wrote:
OK, just received an eMail from the mailorder I ordered. No boxes. GW has cut the deliveries short and they won't receive what they were promised.
At least they offered to deliver the single boxes, for the price of the battlebox. Mighty nice offer, but it will take a few weeks as the single boxes are sold out too.
My pile of shame is ok with it though and I don't mind if I receive the stuff january/february.
Hope you guys have more luck!

That dealer is a keeper for sure!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Garfield666 wrote:
OK, just received an eMail from the mailorder I ordered. No boxes. GW has cut the deliveries short and they won't receive what they were promised.
At least they offered to deliver the single boxes, for the price of the battlebox. Mighty nice offer, but it will take a few weeks as the single boxes are sold out too.
My pile of shame is ok with it though and I don't mind if I receive the stuff january/february.
Hope you guys have more luck!

That dealer is a keeper for sure!

Definately. Till GW run him out of business. In this case he's making less money than he should be, and will start to lose customers as well due to stocking issues.

I still find it bizarre that GW invest in making molds that can produce a near infinite amount of models yet choose to make them all limited edition. They may as well go back to metal and use cheaper molds. There's smaller model companies out there that would love to have the ability to make everything out of hard plastic yet GW just waste the advantage they have.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

I still find it bizarre that GW invest in making molds that can produce a near infinite amount of models yet choose to make them all limited edition. They may as well go back to metal and use cheaper molds. There's smaller model companies out there that would love to have the ability to make everything out of hard plastic yet GW just waste the advantage they have.

just because you can make infinite amount of models does not mean you can do it all at the same time
to produce for a worldwide demand, and include shipping time you need to do things in advance and but not too much at a time because storage space costs a lot of money

so GW has the problem of not correctly guessing the demand, therefore production runs are too small and they are out of models until the next production run for those model series
only of the demand is really high and it will sell better than the other stuff planned, they change schedule

might be the shortage of Christmas boxes was because GW decided to make less but therefore another not planned run of Indominus Boxes

Most of the current stock issues are not unique to GW - they are due to the pandemic. It's impacted a lot of manufacturers at both ends - increased product demand couple with reduced factory output and shipping options.

Everything is under strain and likely will remain so until the corona situation is resolved and GW's factory can picking/packing can get back to normal staff levels and staff being able to work near to each other; over each other and walk past each other etc.... Ergo when we don't have one-way systems; don't have to wear masks; limit people in buildings etc...

When those things are gone I'm sure we'll see GW's stock issues reduce significantly.

 Garfield666 wrote:
At least they offered to deliver the single boxes, for the price of the battlebox. Mighty nice offer, but it will take a few weeks as the single boxes are sold out too.

That's very cool of them to do that.

I remember many, many moons ago, back when GW was doing the original Army Boxes during 2nd Ed, I saved up my pocket money to buy the Tyranid box, only to find it gone when I went to the store. The GW staffers immediately gathered together the separate boxes and blisters and let me buy it that way.

tneva82 wrote:

 zend wrote:

But a billion dollar company that knows there’s going to be a supply/demand issue can and should implement purchase limits with an IP checker and an in cart reserve system on their website. Better yet, if they can’t be bothered to pay someone to do those basic website features, they should just make the product made to order so there’s no supply/demand issue at all! Sure, people won’t get them in time for the holidays, but that’s more of an issue in that they intend it to be a gift product yet only opened up the orders exactly one month before the holiday.
.

Assumption there being GW wants to sell DISCOUNT boxes a ton...Rather than selling just some for goodwill PR(the nu-GW is basically old GW with improved PR department) but mostly at full price.

Why sell kit for 70% when you can sell it for 100%?

This has been GW motto in every box set they have sold over the past few years. Make a decent set where people's mouth water to get a deal and then when there is no deal to be had let them go off and complain. I mean bad press is still press... its basically the Kardasian way of doing things. And it works. This year they shouldn't have even called them christmas bundles, they should call them Grinch bundles.

I stopped buying GW stuff over the past year as I used to drop 200 a month but honestly that was my gaming budget then, now it is a lot less and I play games that require less models and are more fun... And the games that require more models are about half the cost of GW. Biggest problem with GW is all the constant rule changes and updates. Every few months it is another $50 for a book that will be out of date before I actually play outside of a friendly game gets to be rediculous.

Was surprised to see our local GW still have a bunch of these left. The Tau and nid one, 3 guard and 2 marine boxes.

My local has the Necron, Tau, Astra Militarum, and Ogor battleforces on the shelf still.

GW Stores are often the last to sell through. Whilst I can’t be sure, I think it’s reasonable to suggest it’s because peeps are keen to get even better value buying through FLGS and Online.

For instance, I got the Gloomspite box. Before boxed set discount, it would cost me £45 for the Squig Hoppers (box and a half), £22.50 for the Loonboss on giant Squig, £40 for the Dankhold, and £70 for the Trolls. That’s a total of £175.50.

So the £120 RRP was appealing in itself. But, by shopping with Element (other stores are available), I paid a relatively measly £96.

Store Loyalty is a thing - but it doesn’t stand up to a near 50% discount!

My local isn't a GW store, its an indy retailer that offers an unadvertised tiered discount between 10 and 25% off msrp. Its just a out of the way hole in the wall surrounded by better stores, so it gets overlooked and holds stock on stuff for months (sometimes years) after things have sold out everywhere else.

Quick heads up, looks like Miniature market got some of these in today. Most have sold through, but a couple of the fantasy ones are still available.

So far I've scored 2 each of the Necron, CSM, and Primaris boxes and 1 of the Gloomspite boxes. I'm kinda tempted to grab a Tzeentch box too now that Slaanesh is getting their mortal range bulked out I kinda want mortal Tzeentch/Nurgle/Khorne stuff to go along with my Slaves to Darkness.

Misread that. Thought you’d bought two score of each!

Does the decimation chaos band have a normal box of CSM or does it use the same models as the start collecting box?

Its the full standalone kit

 Theophony wrote:
Quick heads up, looks like Miniature market got some of these in today. Most have sold through, but a couple of the fantasy ones are still available.

Bought 2 of the Gloomspite Gitz ones after I noticed the same!

Broke down and picked up the starpulse cadre. Figure I'll grab a start collecting soon and go from there. Not sure which way to lean, will have to research Tau.