I think these are the main guys without a codex. Any others? My vote goes for Slann as they would be something totally unique.

Slann are cool, but totally written off fluff wise. I think Arbites as a stand-alone force would be a little thin, same with Ordo Xenos. If GW wants to expand, I think their best bet would be an original alien concept.

The omisiah of course....

DEUS VULT wrote:Slann are cool, but totally written off fluff wise. I think Arbites as a stand-alone force would be a little thin, same with Ordo Xenos. If GW wants to expand, I think their best bet would be an original alien concept.

Which I say is best done with Slann. Basically a new alien race but not totally out of nowhere like the Tau/Kroot.
Anyways everything seems a little thin until you get a codex fleshing it out.

Which I say is best done with Slann. Basically a new alien race but not totally out of nowhere like the Tau/Kroot.
Anyways everything seems a little thin until you get a codex fleshing it out.

Best done with Slann, quite possibly. I dont think Gee Dub should expand at all at this point until sorting out their current armies
Perhaps a Codex: Imperium in the Fantasy Dogs of War style, containing rules for arbites, skitarii, PDF, etc...

DEUS VULT wrote:

Which I say is best done with Slann. Basically a new alien race but not totally out of nowhere like the Tau/Kroot.
Anyways everything seems a little thin until you get a codex fleshing it out.

Best done with Slann, quite possibly. I dont think Gee Dub should expand at all at this point until sorting out their current armies
Perhaps a Codex: Imperium in the Fantasy Dogs of War style, containing rules for arbites, skitarii, PDF, etc...

I think they're distinct enough to each get their own codex (well not PDF they're the same as guard).

I'd like so a Mechanicus one. They're already got a force organization comparable to that of other codex-having factions, so it's only "correct", IMO.

Ad Mech naturally.


While still being a "Impierial" codex, It would have a Very different feel then the others.

practically the only thing that would be the same would be Techpriests.

It would be Grimdark Techno machinery. Kinda like a parody of T'au tech, but with a Industrial Revolution feel.

lots of robots, walkers, Servitors, mutants, Lobotomised humans..........


and lotsa Lazors. Lots of em.

Demiurg, AdMech, LatD, and Ordo Xenos (as a part of an Inquisition supplement) in that oarder.

I voted AdMech, but I'd LOVE to see a Slann/space-lizardmen one as well, it would make for some awesome developments on the Necron/C-tan front.

I'd also rather like to see an Arbites and/or Ordo Xenos Codex.

Just generally an Inquisition Codex that was arranged somewhat similarly to the SM Codex would be awesome (with some sections for each specific branch of the inquisition, and then a "general" section for all of them).

Not exactly sure how Ordo Xenos would work. They have Death Watch but will it just come off as another SM codex? They're elite but basically they're just going to be like Vanguard and SternGuard Veterens. Beyond that I guess Inquisitors or their henchmen could use alien weaponary like Shuriken weapons or Tau pulse rifles which would be pretty cool. Perhaps the the most radical ones could have alien allies like Kroot.

ordo Xenos would have Inquisitors(With Xeno weaponry options) SM Chaplains, Captains and Librarians as HQs.

Stormtroopers as troops. Maybe?

DeathWatch as Troops/Elites.

Landraiders as Heavy support.



Unfortunantly they don't have many options besides these and this is hardy enough to make an entire codex off of.

They will likely be included in Codex: Inquisition if they show up at all.

Deathwatch really belong in the IG codex as an Elite choice.

Arbites- Not enough variety or firepower to be able to compete (realistically) as an army.

Adeptus Mechanicus- Don't interest me as an army. Their totally alien mindset, as well as the inner workings of their insane, scientific/religious society are both things I don't want to see. I think the more of them that you reveal, the more it cheapens the Adeptus Mechanicus. I like them more as a Lovecraftian kind of organization, working in the shadows, doing things Man Was Not Meant To Know About.

Demiurg- Why not just give them a couple of units in the Tau army? And honestly, I don't want dwarves (of any kind) in my sci-fi.

Eldar Exodites- I don't like Eldar, but this is probably my second place pick. If they did this though, I see a lot of theft from Avatar as a possibility. Assuming that could be avoided, it would be nice to see some non-Imperial Xenos who are already established in the mythos. While my second place pick, I think this has the potential to be the greatest army. Tragically, there is too many obstacles in the way. They would more than likely be fantasy elf knock offs, or too similar to Eldar for my tastes. So, greatest possibilities, least likely to actually BE good. (My opinion.)

Ordo Xenos- I would like to see Inquisitors brought back with a current, intelligible, Codex. This is my first pick. (Since I love the Inquisition, and the Imperium.)

Slann- Never heard of them, so I did some research. So...they're Gungans? No thanks. Seriously, I don't want WHFB intruding into the grim darkness of the future. At all.


Honestly, if GW WERE to come out with a new army (as opposed to updating any of their old ones) I would actually recommend the Kroot. Give them a little more fluff and a few more units. A couple of the mentioned entries would wind up with the whole 'ancient technology and superior morals vs lax ethics and godly science' motif that we have seen in a certain film I already mentioned. (And Return of the Jedi) While I don't have a problem with this theme, I think that 40k already HAS their own (pretty unique) race of aliens that has that story going for them, and they might as well get their own Codex for their troubles.

Let me hasten to add that I assume you wanted our opinions, and so my response is solely that: what I want to see, with no consideration for the opinions or feelings of others.

I like the idea of an AdMech army. an army of servo-arms would be awesome to put on a table.

I agree that the individual elements of an =][= codex may not be enough to fill a complete book, hence my idea of a couple of separate sections, with another section for a universal Inquisition units.

Slann are like the deadbeat derelict parents of 40k. If they came back there would be a lot of awkward questions and bad memories brought up.

Demiurg./Squats. What role would they serve or what niche would they fill? How do they get exo or mechanical suits to enable them to reach above other races kneecaps? In fluff do they have exo suits to enable the to move the standard 6"
How to explain their cure for gay-itis (thanks AC!) or being nom nomed by nids?

Even if they were allied to Ordos characters/units what role would they serve that couldn't be fulfilled elsewhere? (aside from resident clown?)

Arbites - had then in 2nd ed, just a unit of police officers, with bad ass shotguns and shock mauls and thats all they were. Move forward to 5th ed and you have IG lite support with mediocre at best shotties.
You could give them some nice AV10/11 vehicles I suppose.......

Exodites have been wished for since the dawn of time, by a minority of gamers.

Xenos could/should be in with an Inquisition codex.

Ad Mech is most plausible. Their would be ready made fluff that hasn't changed too much, they are part of the background of 40k. They have a structure that would fit into current Force Org charts and have potential equipment and units to offer different styles of play.
But since Ad-mech can be represented by the IG codex I dont see an officla codex coming anytime soon.

But dont wait and talk about things that may never happen get on and write your own rules.

Ad Mech I guess. I don't like the idea of Slann, it just seems odd, and no offense, but it seems like you just wanted it yourself, so tacked it onto the poll without considering how fitting it would be for the existing fluff.
Though that's just me...

Definitely Adeptus Mechanicus, Or at least an Iron Hands codex (though i think most people dread the coming of another MEQ codex. Except me.)

As a veteran of Space Marine Epic from waaaaay back, I thought that Squats would have been in 40k, or at least some kind of option for Imperials. Where the heck are the Space Dwarves?

And as for Slann, wouldn't they be awfully close to the Rogue Trader-era Zoats?

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Ad Mech I guess. I don't like the idea of Slann, it just seems odd, and no offense, but it seems like you just wanted it yourself, so tacked it onto the poll without considering how fitting it would be for the existing fluff.
Though that's just me...

The slann/lizardmen would make some sense for current fluff, but (so far) only because of the Necrons codex. They have links to the old ones and Chaos rather like Eldar, and with the big focus on the C'tans' hate for all things "old one" related, I think it would be really cool to see some kind of Lizardmen/Slann introduction in 40k.

That said, I may be alone in that

All of those need a 'dex, but not as much as the game doesn't need any more 'dexes.

Official (updated) Codices for:
1.) Kroot Mercenaries
2.) Genestealer Cult
3.) Lost and the Damned (Traitor Guard)

Legion wrote:All of those need a 'dex, but not as much as the game doesn't need any more 'dexes.

More is always better

Legion wrote:All of those need a 'dex, but not as much as the game doesn't need any more 'dexes.

I agree with this.

GW already can't upgrade all the existing armies once a generation. We really don't need more new army codexes clogging up the release schedule.

Agreed with the no more dexes. GW need to get off their arses and update the ones they have already first.

I agree with you Gwar, after they write a new squats codex...

I needs space dwarfs, without them I might explode, that happens to me sometimes.

AdMech would be a great faction for Forge World to take on.

^ definitely.. I've not seen the actual quality of their stuff, but the look/style of all the models they do is absolutely perfect, so I have little to no doubt they'd do AdMech just as well.

I voted for Xenos (perhaps rolled into a larger, single =I= codex), because there wasn't a write-in option.

I think that the army that most needs a codex is Dark Eldar. I heard that GW once put some stat lines to some units, on some pieces of paper, but you can't buy it, or it's models and it's not always tournament legal.

DE have been relegated to the level of Kroot Mercenaries. If anyone should get a real codex, it should be a long-standing army without one, rather than an army that is hiding in the fringes of the fluff.

Ailaros wrote:
I think that the army that most needs a codex is Dark Eldar. I heard that GW once put some stat lines to some units, on some pieces of paper, but you can't buy it, or it's models and it's not always tournament legal.

DE have been relegated to the level of Kroot Mercenaries. If anyone should get a real codex, it should be a long-standing army without one, rather than an army that is hiding in the fringes of the fluff.

Not sure if I'm missing something here.. but http://yellowrex.com/pics/Dark%20Eldar%20Codex.gif

so their pieces of paper with stat lines had a fancy cover. Doesn't change my point.

I guess it's a bit old, but the new DE codex is supposed to be out soonish, and it's not like they never had one :s

EDIT: And by "a bit old" i mean pretty damn old It will definitely be good to see an update after near 10 years of essentially the same rules...

Demoniac wrote:

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Ad Mech I guess. I don't like the idea of Slann, it just seems odd, and no offense, but it seems like you just wanted it yourself, so tacked it onto the poll without considering how fitting it would be for the existing fluff.
Though that's just me...

The slann/lizardmen would make some sense for current fluff, but (so far) only because of the Necrons codex. They have links to the old ones and Chaos rather like Eldar, and with the big focus on the C'tans' hate for all things "old one" related, I think it would be really cool to see some kind of Lizardmen/Slann introduction in 40k.

That said, I may be alone in that

No you're not!

I'd rather see Hrud than Slaan.

No love for the Exodites? No one wants space elves riding with healthy tans riding dinosaurs? No? Alright.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Legion wrote:All of those need a 'dex, but not as much as the game doesn't need any more 'dexes.

I agree with this.

GW already can't upgrade all the existing armies once a generation. We really don't need more new army codexes clogging up the release schedule.

Although a one-time pdf or article in WD would be cool. (But won't happen)

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No love for the Exodites? No one wants space elves riding with healthy tans riding dinosaurs? No? Alright.

They are rumoured to get rules in the next FW Imperial Armour book about Eldar. Together with new models. Is that good enough?

BTW traitor guard has FW rules, AdMech will get some FW rules in the long run.

Fan-made Codices:
Kodex Kroot: http://z8.invisionfree.com/KompletelyKroot/ (5th edition)
Codex Arbites http://hem.spray.se/kendoka2/arbites/necromunda_aa.htm (3rd edition)
Codex Exodites: http://www.agisn.de/html/codex_exodites.html (3rd edition)
Codex genestealer Cult (available at a yahoo group, 5th edition)

Kroothawk wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No love for the Exodites? No one wants space elves riding with healthy tans riding dinosaurs? No? Alright.

They are rumoured to get rules in the next FW Imperial Armour book about Eldar. Together with new models. Is that good enough?

BTW traitor guard has FW rules, AdMech will get some FW rules in the long run.

Fan-made Codices:
Kodex Kroot: http://z8.invisionfree.com/KompletelyKroot/ (5th edition)
Codex Arbites http://hem.spray.se/kendoka2/arbites/necromunda_aa.htm (3rd edition)
Codex Exodites: http://www.agisn.de/html/codex_exodites.html (3rd edition)
Codex genestealer Cult (available at a yahoo group, 5th edition)

Yes that's good enough for me. If it happens. Honestly, Exodites would be my last choice don't really care for the pointy-ears. I've noticed there doesn't actually seem to be a lot of Eldar fans on Dakka.


But no, Fandexes are not good enough for me.

Demoniac wrote:

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Ad Mech I guess. I don't like the idea of Slann, it just seems odd, and no offense, but it seems like you just wanted it yourself, so tacked it onto the poll without considering how fitting it would be for the existing fluff.
Though that's just me...

The slann/lizardmen would make some sense for current fluff, but (so far) only because of the Necrons codex. They have links to the old ones and Chaos rather like Eldar, and with the big focus on the C'tans' hate for all things "old one" related, I think it would be really cool to see some kind of Lizardmen/Slann introduction in 40k.

That said, I may be alone in that

The Slann/Old Ones would make sense...if they weren't all dead.

Their race died out about the same time the Necrons went into hibernation, mostly due to that whole Enslaver infestation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No love for the Exodites? No one wants space elves riding with healthy tans riding dinosaurs? No? Alright.

They are rumoured to get rules in the next FW Imperial Armour book about Eldar. Together with new models. Is that good enough?

BTW traitor guard has FW rules, AdMech will get some FW rules in the long run.

As an aside, I have to debunk this.

The next FW Imperial Armour book is slated to be a continuation of the campaign begun in Kastorel-Novem. The Ork Waagh! wasn't stopped, and it's supposed to be stepping up its game after the failed Imperial offensive.

However, Eldar are supposed to be making an appearance as a kind of 'prod' to the Orks assaulting a Forge World and its Mechanicus defenders, alongside of the Raven Guard and Elysians stepping up their game to go after the Eldar behind the Orks.

Kanluwen wrote:

Demoniac wrote:

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Ad Mech I guess. I don't like the idea of Slann, it just seems odd, and no offense, but it seems like you just wanted it yourself, so tacked it onto the poll without considering how fitting it would be for the existing fluff.
Though that's just me...

The slann/lizardmen would make some sense for current fluff, but (so far) only because of the Necrons codex. They have links to the old ones and Chaos rather like Eldar, and with the big focus on the C'tans' hate for all things "old one" related, I think it would be really cool to see some kind of Lizardmen/Slann introduction in 40k.

That said, I may be alone in that

The Slann/Old Ones would make sense...if they weren't all dead.

Their race died out about the same time the Necrons went into hibernation, mostly due to that whole Enslaver infestation.

Or did they!?

They did.

Otherwise, you'd still see them around considering their empire stretched across the entire galaxy and was partially responsible for the Eldar's Webway.

Ordo Xenos closely followed by adeptus mechanicus I say.

Kanluwen wrote:They did.

Otherwise, you'd still see them around considering their empire stretched across the entire galaxy and was partially responsible for the Eldar's Webway.

Yes well The Tau have been around for the last 6,000 years (and the Kroot longer) but they only just got mentioned now. It's a big galaxy that has room for retconning.

Tau were isolated by a Warp storm, supposedly generated by one of the last of the Old Ones/Eldar.

And 6000 years is "relatively recent" in the grand scheme of things. That's what makes the Tau's ascendant technology so impressive. They're not stagnant like the Imperium or the Eldar. They're constantly advancing.

I agree, no new dexes; GW can't keep up with the current races, we don't need even more that will only be updates once every 10 years...

It's a tough choice. I agree with some of the posters above (I haven't read them all), the Arbites and Demuirg would be rather small codex's on their own. They would be great additions to the (ab)human ranks, though.
I think the Ordo Xenos needs one, but I also think the inquisition should have one codex that holds options for the different branches. With plenty of fluff for the listed Ordos and fluff enough to support smaller Ordos for gamers to make up.

I'd really like a codex for the Mechanicus, too! But I haven't seen any signs of GW working on ANY of the extra human forces. It seems like they could pump something like that out. Hire a few extra folks, tournament winners perhaps, and put them to the task. Something like a contracting job. Meh, not everyone likes doing business like that. I still want all the codexs!

I voted for the Exodites because the eldar have codex for the Dark Eldar and the Craft World Eldar, as well as older codex's that pertain to Eldar in general. So why not the Exodites? or the Harlequin, for that matter. They would probably be small as an individual codex (much like the abhumans above), but they deserve some more attention, and more than one unit type! They don't even have a Solitaire as it is. But I think the Exodits would have enough options and different units to fill up a whole codex: Examples of different planetary adaptations instead of aspect specific units; Bestiaries that represent planets that support different kinds of life better. And some Farseer options! Those are the ones that lead the exodites away from the fall after all... right?

Mn, I agree. Combine the Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus, and Ordo Xenos into one Codex: Inquisitio or some kind of supplement. The codex could include up to the following from Space Marines (including BA, BT, DA, GK, SM, and SW), Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle, but only one of these armies at a time.

1 HQ choice (mandatory if you include the other choices, can't be a special character)
0-1 Elites choices
1-3 Troops choices (one mandatory along with the HQ choice)
0-1 Fast Attack choices
0-1 Heavy Support choices

And then expand the Ordos to have some more units based off of the various kinds of acolytes, such as assassination squads which can be kitted out as snipers or close combat experts for example.


That would be the IDEAL way to do it, but I don't expect it to actually be done that way.

Honestly what would be truly cool would be a simple Xenos codex. As an addon to Tau. Being that they have added and are willing to add different races to their collective it would add some nice visual flair and give the modelers a chance to make a handful of cool/wacky units.

And besides wouldn't it be cool to take a tau army with 10 different races in it armed with Tau-ish tech?

I like the ordos seperate. They are competing interests. It'll be pretty crowded with GK and SoB and who knows what else.

FacelessMage wrote:Honestly what would be truly cool would be a simple Xenos codex. As an addon to Tau. Being that they have added and are willing to add different races to their collective it would add some nice visual flair and give the modelers a chance to make a handful of cool/wacky units.

And besides wouldn't it be cool to take a tau army with 10 different races in it armed with Tau-ish tech?

Dogs of War for 40k? No thanks.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I like the ordos seperate. They are competing interests. It'll be pretty crowded with GK and SoB and who knows what else.

You must not read many of my posts if you think I'd want GK and SoB (in particular this one) to be mixed in with the Inquisition in any way whatsoever

Especially considering I said that they would take allies from the GK / SoB codices in that post.

Kanluwen wrote:Tau were isolated by a Warp storm, supposedly generated by one of the last of the Old Ones/Eldar.

And 6000 years is "relatively recent" in the grand scheme of things. That's what makes the Tau's ascendant technology so impressive. They're not stagnant like the Imperium or the Eldar. They're constantly advancing.

The main reason I would prefer the Slann worked in there instead of an entirely new race is becasue the Tau have filled the "significant but isolated problem" niche. All the other races have reasons to be everywhere but during the big Summer campaigns they need to stretch reasoning sometimes for ways to get the Tau in there. It's easier to work something into the story how The Old Ones original creation are still kicking but doing something in the background of the galaxy behind the scenes. Kinda like the Necrons were there for a while.

The Slann are going to be absolutely useless in terms of an army. They're supposed to be, in terms of populations, MAYBE double digits as remnants.

And you want to make an army out of that?

Melissia wrote:
And then expand the Ordos to have some more units based off of the various kinds of acolytes, such as assassination squads which can be kitted out as snipers or close combat experts for example.

That's pretty much exactly the kind of army I'd like to field, and (more specifically for the WH/Ordo Hereticus), the range of/types of acolytes available for the inquisitors to take. I'd like to see them with some real interesting wargear/weapons too, the only thing I felt about both the Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters was that there weren't nearly as many 'unique' weapons (DH slightly less so).

Kanluwen wrote:The Slann are going to be absolutely useless in terms of an army. They're supposed to be, in terms of populations, MAYBE double digits as remnants.

And you want to make an army out of that?

Yes. Yes I do Not *just* slann though; the Slann AND what remain of the Lizardmen/whatever-they-evolved-into

Kanluwen wrote:The Slann are going to be absolutely useless in terms of an army. They're supposed to be, in terms of populations, MAYBE double digits as remnants.

And you want to make an army out of that?

This. Slann are scraping the bottom of the barrel fluff-wise

ugh, use your imagination people!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:ugh, use your imagination people!

OMG IMAGINATION!

THERE SHOULD BE A GIANT SQUID ARMY, FROM THE WORLD CRUSTACADONACUS, AND THEY ALL FIRE LAZORS FORM THEIR TENTACLES, AND THE ENTIRE ARMY IS MADE UP OF MONSTROUS CREATURES AND WALKING FISH! AND BY WALKING FISH I MEAN FISH WITH TWO LEGS SITKCING OUT THE SIDE! AND THE SQUIDS CAN FLY BY SPINNING REALLY FAST, AND THEY'RE ALL PSYKERS!

^ That... sounds... awesome!

I'm still all for a Slann/Lizardmen codex, small numbers or no, I feel like it would be an interesting development for the fluff

If they were going to bring out Demuirg models, theyd be best as more auxiliaries for the Tau (as thats what they are in the fluff). Not as a standalone race.

I would like to see the Ordo Xenos. My friend who plays the Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters ect ect tells me about the fluff behind his dex's and I'd like to see more of it on the table top in the form of Ordo Xenos.

Our favourite GW spokesperson Jervis Johnson said in Standard Bearer *Shudders* that they wont be introducing any new armies until all of the current ones are updated and most likely will not be removing any races. I believe it was WD 363.

I'd love to see a Dwaven Ad-mech in power armour type army, but GW seems to be sending the Dwarves to the Tau.

So, right now I want GW to consolidate some codices before a new one is released.

After that? Dwarves, then I could deal with the Ad-mech getting the love, but only if the Imperium has been trimmed back first.(Either army coul be done in an industrial pseudo-steampunk style.)

Exodites are right up there, too. I'd like for GW to give itself the excuse to do a craftworld codex again.

Why do people vote that Adeptus Mechanicus needs a codex? It's not an army in itself, it's a support to imperial armies.
The Omnissiah would never go into war by itself.

Cor Angars wrote:Why do people vote that Adeptus Mechanicus needs a codex? It's not an army in itself, it's a support to imperial armies.
The Omnissiah would never go into war by itself.

The mechanicum is fully capable of starting their own wars, but agreed to an alliance with the Imperium.
If Inquisition has got a codex or two ( yet, but split from GK and SoB could happen) , the Ad Mech as selfsupporting independent body should have theirs without a doubt.

Personally i think in the next edition they should let salamanders have their own codex

Or they could just go generic ala GURPS. Base stateline for X points and adding onto stats/armor/weapons/USRs costs points.

Cor Angars wrote:Why do people vote that Adeptus Mechanicus needs a codex? It's not an army in itself, it's a support to imperial armies.
The Omnissiah would never go into war by itself.

To defend Forge Worlds and AdMech property for a start. They have a full army, and it is cool, too.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:ugh, use your imagination people!

OMG IMAGINATION!

THERE SHOULD BE A GIANT SQUID ARMY, FROM THE WORLD CRUSTACADONACUS, AND THEY ALL FIRE LAZORS FORM THEIR TENTACLES, AND THE ENTIRE ARMY IS MADE UP OF MONSTROUS CREATURES AND WALKING FISH! AND BY WALKING FISH I MEAN FISH WITH TWO LEGS SITKCING OUT THE SIDE! AND THE SQUIDS CAN FLY BY SPINNING REALLY FAST, AND THEY'RE ALL PSYKERS!

meh, its been done.

cogs for the cog god
servitors for the servitor god
plasma for the plasma god
praise the omnissah

Ya, its not even close. People want cyborg armies of doom! Long live the Omnissiah!

I want all of these :*(

Adeptus Mechanicus , they are E.P.I.C

The PIRATE Eldar. That would be awesome.

uh, you mean Dark Eldar?

Adeptus Mechanicus for me especailly after reading Titanicus

sooo many cool possibilities for new models from both GW and Forge World - Imperial Armour books et etc

Like the others two but Am would be awesome.

Also love a proper Codex for the Premier Regiments of the Imperial Guard - Tallarn, Catachan, Tanith, Vallahan etc etc so we can truely represent them

I don't want any if this "steampunk" thrown in the mix if they made an AdMech army... They are as creepy and as industrial as it comes IMO, not old-school (as in victorian era old-school) mechanical looking with purty wood/gold/brass everywhere.

It's too dark for steampunk.

Cadet_Commissar_Ludd wrote:cogs for the cog god
servitors for the servitor god
plasma for the plasma god ( gets hot! blam! no more god! )
praise the omnissah

voted for adeptus mechanicus, although it would be cool to have sort of a book like babylon 5 where several races would unite to fight a given threat (drooling of thinking of the possible conversions)

Cor Angars wrote:Why do people vote that Adeptus Mechanicus needs a codex? It's not an army in itself, it's a support to imperial armies.
The Omnissiah would never go into war by itself.

the Ad Mech is ALWAYS getting into fights.

Don't tell me you have never heard of the Titan Legions? it isn't just Titans. Legions of Skittarii(Genetically altered Human warriors. The only thing more vicious then a Battle involving Space Marines is one involving these guys), Techguard(Humans just undergoing a few Bionic enhancments. Initiates into the Machine Cult), Knight battle walkers(Mini titans)........

it sends out Explorator missions after Archeotech, STCs.

they defend the Forge Worlds.


Quite often Impierial Guard troops are fighting alongside the Ad Mech, but they are more then capable of fighting all by themselves.

It seems like all of these has some potential

Absolutely none of them do. They're all either such small numbers that they make the Space Marines look like they've got the numbers of the Chinese military or they're forces that wouldn't ever engage in combat by themselves.

Except for the Ad Mech of course

Adeptus Mechanicus I really still say fall under the "don't belong" category. They're more about adding their numbers to Guard forces.

really who doesn't want to play as space dwarves!

they have the most justification of being their own codex because at least have huge armies in the fluff.

Deathwatch have small commando units.

Arbites are really just Stormtroopers with Shotguns

others are either non-existant OR don't have enough fluff written about them to justify a codex.


Mechanicus has more then enough justification.

yeah but still they did have a codex. I wonder if anyone still possess this wonderous item?

Grey Templar wrote:they have the most justification of being their own codex because at least have huge armies in the fluff.

Deathwatch have small commando units.

Arbites are really just Stormtroopers with Shotguns

others are either non-existant OR don't have enough fluff written about them to justify a codex.


Mechanicus has more then enough justification.

Their "huge armies" really amount to nothing more than three things:
1) Legions of Skitarii(which are equivalent to Guardsmen with tech enhancements), with servitors in large numbers and huge quantities of special weapons alongside of whatever factory worker levy that decides to come with them to defend their planet.
2) Experimental weapons of the Ordinatus(which how the hell are you going to do that? Random stats and random effectiveness? Hooray! That's GENIUS!)
3) Titan Legions, supported by Guard armour/infantry regiments to mop up what's left.

Well, a Deathwatch and a Adeptus Arbites codex could be justified.

The old BA codex and Catachan codex were tiny.

But given the current GW policy, Catachan now part of IG codex, I'd say there's no need for a codex for neither as Deathwatch can easily be incorporated in the C:SM and Arbites in the C:IG.

Even though these two codices can be incorporated into lager codices I don't think the same can be applied to an Adeptus Mechanicus codex.


EDIT:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:they have the most justification of being their own codex because at least have huge armies in the fluff.

Deathwatch have small commando units.

Arbites are really just Stormtroopers with Shotguns

others are either non-existant OR don't have enough fluff written about them to justify a codex.


Mechanicus has more then enough justification.

Their "huge armies" really amount to nothing more than three things:
1) Legions of Skitarii(which are equivalent to Guardsmen with tech enhancements), with servitors in large numbers and huge quantities of special weapons alongside of whatever factory worker levy that decides to come with them to defend their planet.
2) Experimental weapons of the Ordinatus(which how the hell are you going to do that? Random stats and random effectiveness? Hooray! That's GENIUS!)
3) Titan Legions, supported by Guard armour/infantry regiments to mop up what's left.

Did you happen to read any of the home made Mechanicus codex?
Reducing the mechanicus fighting force to just 3 points its an understatement to say the least.

And Skitarii would probably be closer to space marine Neophytes than guardsmen.

Skittarii are the Equivilant of marines.

they would have poorer saves, BUT enhanced Str and T. they are primarily geared for CC, but shooty versions do exist. prehaps 2 wounds instead of T5 or better.

the Skittarii would be a highly customisable platform, able to be either shooty or CC.

a Small elite force, but with a much more nitty gritty feel then SMs have.

Orky Space marines if you will.

Skittarii are nowhere near being equivalent to Marines.

The next step up, Centurions I think they were called, might be but I severely doubt it.

Skittarii, from every description so far, put them at about on par with Stormtroopers in terms of equipment/training--but with things like combat stimms, bionics, etc that make them more effective in CC.


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Oh, and as a rule I don't read fandexes. They're 9/10 times absolute spank that makes C.S. Goto look like Shakespeare.

I think fan-dexes give a wonderful insight to the potential of a force, but I wouldn't bring them up in an argument about official codexes... just because they aren't official.

I also agree that the Skittarii (from what I've read/heard) aren't on the same level as the marines, but do seem to be better than regular human rank and file. The tech-upgrades would be enough to do that, but they also get drugs and things to boost performance, like something out of THX 1138.

I think the Inquisition should be in one large codex, as it is one organization with different branches. They have different focuses and specialties, even different modes of operation, but their all work toward the same goal... eliminating enemies of the Emperor... or was it the Imperium?

THere have been small codexes for chapters of the marines, so why not small dexes for other races/branches of the human military force?

And, as for the Admech army, who do you think is making the hardware for the Impirium? Trust me, those Admechs have plenty of gear to fight with. I think the fluff is they don't want to risk losing too much of it so they let the rest of humanity do most of the dirty work.

^ Good points, all.

The fan made AdMech Codex i think is a pretty good point of reference for what they could well be like. Obviously being written by someone totally different, but I think it would introduce some IMO much needed uniqueness to the game on the Imperiums side

The literature often describes large and diverse admech armies fighting independantly with their own unique forces and an agenda quite distinct from the other branches of the imperium. Read Soul Hunter or Mechanicum for some examples. They'd be very comfortable fighting alongside the Imperial Guard, but just as comfortable fighting alone, especially when pursuing a goal particular to the admech such as defending a forge world or securing an artifact from the dark age of technology.

I wouldn't like to see GW take this on because they're already struggling to support existing forces, but I've no doubt that they could given the richness of the fluff. Given that FW already produce admech models as support for the IG, it would be a logical project for them to take on.

I only mentioned fan 'dex to counter the argument that Mechanicus armies don't have a wide range of unitis available.

Fan dex are a good reference point to see a list of the units available to the army.

Also the mechanicus would have a wider range of miniatures than Necrons.

Fandexes != the Mechanicus having a wide range of units available. Not when you make up half the crap in it.

And Mechanicus are, as stated, getting their own treatment from Forge World. They're slated to get an army list in the next IA book.

Kanluwen wrote:Fandexes != the Mechanicus having a wide range of units available. Not when you make up half the crap in it.

And Mechanicus are, as stated, getting their own treatment from Forge World. They're slated to get an army list in the next IA book.

not quite.
depends on the codex you read. the one I saw had only units from GW fluff.

Current fluff or outdated Epic: Space Marine fluff?

There's a difference in that idea right there alone.
Large quantities of things have been let go simply because they're too wacky and don't fit the current background.

There's a reason Squats were killed off, Slann are a dying race that are never to be seen again, etc etc.

They don't fit the background anymore.

40k is no longer just "Fantasy....in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!".

We're arguing about mechanicus, if they don't fit into the 40k universe then the Imperium will be sent back to the stone age pretty fast.

They don't fit into the 40k tabletop universe. They're not a force that works well in terms of 40k as we're seeing it now on the tabletop.

Since you're wanting to cite fluff, by the way, the Mechanicus doesn't commit anything more than a few squads,even then more often than not they serve exclusively as bodyguard to high-ranking Mechanicus officials on the field to supplement the Servitor bodyguard they have to begin with, of Skittarii to battlefields except in extreme circumstances.

Kanluwen wrote:They don't fit into the 40k tabletop universe. They're not a force that works well in terms of 40k as we're seeing it now on the tabletop.

Since you're wanting to cite fluff, by the way, the Mechanicus doesn't commit anything more than a few squads,even then more often than not they serve exclusively as bodyguard to high-ranking Mechanicus officials on the field to supplement the Servitor bodyguard they have to begin with, of Skittarii to battlefields except in extreme circumstances.

And yet they have entire fleets and armies dedicated to finding ancient tech and preserving or destroying it.

Okay, a few unique units would be all that is needed from GW to make an official Ad-mech list there are plenty of other counts as options in the current IG codex.

Kanluwen wrote:They don't fit into the 40k tabletop universe. They're not a force that works well in terms of 40k as we're seeing it now on the tabletop.

Since you're wanting to cite fluff, by the way, the Mechanicus doesn't commit anything more than a few squads,even then more often than not they serve exclusively as bodyguard to high-ranking Mechanicus officials on the field to supplement the Servitor bodyguard they have to begin with, of Skittarii to battlefields except in extreme circumstances.

Not quite true, read Helsreach, and you'll find that skittarii march alongside titans to protect the lower accesses to the interior of the titans.
Also as was mentioned already mechanicus have a fighting force to defend their forges and the also have exploration teams.

AM is a viable option to create a tabletop army. There's diversity, numbers and a fluff stream to explore.
The only reasons GW might have not to create such an army is because they already have too many Imperial armies or being too busy updating current books.

Kanluwen wrote:Current fluff or outdated Epic: Space Marine fluff?

There's a difference in that idea right there alone.
Large quantities of things have been let go simply because they're too wacky and don't fit the current background.

There's a reason Squats were killed off, Slann are a dying race that are never to be seen again, etc etc.

They don't fit the background anymore.

Sorry, but as you mentioned background so many times in this post and not once tabletop, I assumed you were actually talking about the 40k universe background.

Do the Mechanicus have forces that they send out across the galaxy?

Sure. They're called Explorator Fleets. But their primary goals aren't to prosecute wars. They're sent out to explore. They're sent out to search for STCs. That's their primary goal, and they're equipped to prosecute campaigns if they believe there's a STC.

The Mechanicus keep the majority of their forces on their Forge Worlds. The only forces that regularly are seen on the battlefields are Titans.

Kanluwen wrote:Do the Mechanicus have forces that they send out across the galaxy?

Sure. They're called Explorator Fleets. But their primary goals aren't to prosecute wars. They're sent out to explore. They're sent out to search for STCs. That's their primary goal, and they're equipped to prosecute campaigns if they believe there's a STC.

The Mechanicus keep the majority of their forces on their Forge Worlds. The only forces that regularly are seen on the battlefields are Titans.

AD mech forces WILL prosecute wars against Xenos races tech heretics, recalitrant forge worlds or worlds and systems producing needed goods with their own forces.

If GW saw Ad-Mech or another race as a viable revenue stream then you can guarantee that fluff would come out supporting these races or factions at the very least fluff woudl eb ignored

Tale a look at Grey Knights another MEQ that fluff indicted was rarer than a Sanguinius and Bloodthirster love child, they were limited in number even in the days of epic armies with a limited role. And yet here we are with whole armies of the shiny metal buggers.

Fluff indicated nothing of the sort about Grey Knights. Them having limited numbers has nothing to do with the fact that they're actually used in specific roles. Grey Knights are called in when things get bad in terms of a daemonic infestation. Then they show up, with force appropriate to the infestation. If it's a relatively "minor" incursion you'll see a few squads of Power Armored Grey Knights, alongside of the Inquisitional forces already in play.

When things get to the size of Vraks, Armageddon when Angron opened up a rift, the invasion of Cadia, etc?

That's when you see the Grey Knights mobilized in full scale.

As to them being on the tabletop right now...
Yes. They don't really belong. They should be an Elite choice for a Guard army or a Marine army that can only be taken against a Daemon army.

But since army choices don't work that way...they added in the "Daemonhunters" book, which was meant to represent the Ordo Malleus(y'know...the people who do nothing but battle Daemonic infestations) going to war. If you'll remember, they even added in things like Greater Daemons, Cultists, etc that could be taken with your opponent's forces since you're fielding Daemonhunters.

Also, Adeptus Mechanicus DO NOT prosecute wars by themselves. They have NEVER done that, in any form of fluff I have ever seen published. They take to the field alongside of the other forces of the Imperium.

the Mechanicus most definitly makes war by itself. TITAN frakking LEGIONS(titans and ground forces of Skittarii(centurions are elite Skittarii), Cataphractii, battle servitors....) does this ring any bells? They are always going after lost tech by themselves(they want it that way)

I wrote a Mechanicus Dex.

here it is if you want idea as to what is possable.

Everything in it is strait out of the BL books Titanicus, Grey Knights omnibus, some things from Codexs, and a few things that would be undeniably suitable for Ad Mech units.

i didn't have everything that was mentioned either as it they were either too big or would be similer to what i had.


also: Grey Knights are actually the most numorous chapter behind the BTs(4,000ish GKs total) they are just spread out across the galaxy with a concentration at the EoT. at the level of our Table top board game they have more then enough justification to have a force of up to 50 GKs. GKs are always fighting all sorts of enemies(naturally it would have something to do with Daemons, but that doesn't have to happen on the Table top itself. Relics, curropted icons.....)

Okay, so your ENTIRE basis for an Adeptus Mechanicus force is a specialized branch that makes up something like 10% of their overall forces and only includes what can(and WAS during the last Guard codex actually) be represented by Guard forces?

Gee. That's a great reason to have a brand new Codex!
So when do I get Codex: Kasrkin Legion?

10%?????? Where are you getting that?

it's more like 90% of their actual forces. Tech Guard are a PDF of sorts for Forge Worlds.

Skittarii are far from able to be represented by Guard. Tech Guard are the equivilant of Stormtroopers in terms of equipment.

Nothing in there, except Techpriests and Tech Guard, could be easily represented by Codex:IG.

The Explorator Fleets are a MINORITY. I have seen NOTHING that makes me believe otherwise. I have seen NOTHING that isn't fan created that suggests Explorator Fleets are so common that they're anywhere near a population or activity level that would justify them being on the tabletop.

The Tech Guard, by the by, ARE the Skittarii.
Skittarii take many different forms, from gun toting servitors in heavily armored bodies to augmented humans wearing heavily modified Carapace Armor and wielding Boltguns.

The Adeptus Mechanicus has no bloody business being their own faction on the tabletop. Nor do the Inquisitorial Ordos. Both are so inherently tied into the Imperial Guard that they should be unit options for there.

And by the by, I'm talking about last edition's Guard Codex. They even published a list of doctrines that would work well for a Skittarii/Tech Guard force. They were:
Sharpshooters(to represent augmentations done to them affecting their accuracy/uplinks between themselves and their guns)
Carapace Armor(obvious reason is obvious)
Bionic Upgrades(Do I really need to say this? Added in an Invulnerable Save)
Techpriest Enginseers(Again...do I need to say why?)
Ogryn(used to represent Cataphractii)

Tech Guard are simply Guard with bionic upgrades or weird weaponry. They are in no uncertain terms equivalent to Stormtroopers.

in the GKs Omnibus the Tech Guard are men wielding Hellguns and in carapace armour with some Lobotomisation to make them less prone to morale problems.

in Titanicus Skittarii are genetically altered, mutated warriors. Built in weapons systems, Genetherapy and Hormones make them extreamely agressive and cause massive muscle growth on an almost obscene level.

they are both of the same Rank within the Machine cult. Skittarii have gone the way of the warrior and will advance to become Centurions, Pratorians.... those who don't undergo the modification in that way will go on to become Tech priests, Magos, Arch magos, prehaps Titan pilots....OR if they die in the process, or have "issues" they will become Servitors.

they are technically the same Rank if you will, but can be used to mean 2 very different beings.

When a man is referred to as a Tech Guard he is one who has only just begun his path down service to the Machin God. they do act as bodyguards for some dignitaries as many normal humans will be unerved by the presense of the brutish Skittarii.

Skittarii refers to the fighting forces proper.

By adding AM to C:IG you'd just be complicating what's simple.

You'd be given way too many options to IG players which would more likely result in a cookycutter list which would neither represent IG nor AM.

That's the reason why DH and WH have their own codex, so you don't have lots of hybrid lists which represent neither DH, WH, IG nor SM.

Also, by launching a brand new army instead of adding new models for an existing dex' GW would end up with higher profit.

You wouldn't be doing anything other than adding it into Codex: Imperial Guard.

Again:
Adeptus Mechanicus, Inquisition, and Ecclesiarchy are NOT FORCES THAT SHOULD EVER BE SEEN ON THE TABLE BY THEMSELVES.
They are not self-sufficient, no matter what you people seem to get from fanwank.

Why is there no option for none of them?


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Kanluwen wrote:Again:
Adeptus Mechanicus... are NOT FORCES THAT SHOULD EVER BE SEEN ON THE TABLE BY THEMSELVES.
They are not self-sufficient, no matter what you people seem to get from fanwank.

Where in the fluff does it say so?
Space marines are also very rare yet they have multiple Codexes...

Space Marines are rare--but they're also a combat force that is constantly on the frontlines.

Your comparison is a terrible one, simply because one is a combat force that is dedicated to nothing outside of intervening in conflicts.

The Adeptus Mechanicus do not.

I don't think they should have a codex but I still believe that the cult of mars is pretty big and has a strong armed force (for defensive purpose). I believe they can fight on their own without the need of imperial guard. After all, titans are part of their forces and they produce tanks.

They shouldn't be an army with a Codex because they are rarely out there attacking enemies of the imperium. Explorator fleets are a rare sight and the Adeptus Mechanicus will trust recovery of ancient artifacts to the Adeptus Astartes or the Imperial Guard. Explorator Fleets being required when studies have to be made on foreign planets.

Remember that most Forge Worlds are within imperial space behind most danger zones.

poipo32 wrote:Remember that most Forge Worlds are within imperial space behind most danger zones.

Most of the galaxy is supposed to be imperial space, and most battles depicted in the fluff occur within it. Forge worlds are also priority targets for many aggressors, particularly the traitor legions. These battles would certainly see a large and independent mechanicum army take to the field. This is a perfectly sensible scenario to bring to the tabletop, whatever the misgivings of a vocal minority who loudly protest to the contrary.

poipo32 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Again:
Adeptus Mechanicus... are NOT FORCES THAT SHOULD EVER BE SEEN ON THE TABLE BY THEMSELVES.
They are not self-sufficient, no matter what you people seem to get from fanwank.

Where in the fluff does it say so?
Space marines are also very rare yet they have multiple Codexes...

Kanluwen just doesn't like the Codices Sororitas, WH, and DH plus the novels Mechanicum, Grey Knights, Faith&Fire etc. and prefers to ignore them
Everyone else knows that according to official bacground Ecclesiarchy and AdMech have big independend armies and that Inquisitors can take control of most Imperial armies.

Again, Ad mech COULD be represented quite legally by using the current IG codex as counts as. Other races can be represented by other racially similar 'dexes.

If GW decided that any of the races mentioned in this threads poll deserved a unique army then you can bet that fluff would be expanded upon and created to support their inclusion into the pantheon of money making lines.

Mr. Burning wrote:Again, Ad mech COULD be represented quite legally by using the current IG codex as counts as.

Only by liberally ignoring the fluff descriptions of AdMech forces.

Demoniac wrote:That's pretty much exactly the kind of army I'd like to field, and (more specifically for the WH/Ordo Hereticus), the range of/types of acolytes available for the inquisitors to take. I'd like to see them with some real interesting wargear/weapons too, the only thing I felt about both the Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters was that there weren't nearly as many 'unique' weapons (DH slightly less so).

This sounds good but not for 40K. As a revival of necromunda though, lots of potential. (I'm imagining a kind of hybrid of necrmunda, dark heresey and inquisitor)

I really want to see the Exodites, mostly because I find them interesting more than anything. Although I doubt they'll ever come to fruition in the tabletop.

Kroothawk wrote:

poipo32 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Again:
Adeptus Mechanicus... are NOT FORCES THAT SHOULD EVER BE SEEN ON THE TABLE BY THEMSELVES.
They are not self-sufficient, no matter what you people seem to get from fanwank.

Where in the fluff does it say so?
Space marines are also very rare yet they have multiple Codexes...

Kanluwen just doesn't like the Codices Sororitas, WH, and DH plus the novels Mechanicum, Grey Knights, Faith&Fire etc. and prefers to ignore them
Everyone else knows that according to official background Ecclesiarchy and AdMech have big independent armies and that Inquisitors can take control of most Imperial armies.

And those same people ignore the fact that the Ecclesiarchy and Adeptus Mechanicus don't go to war by themselves, simply because it's a stupid idea to even believe in the least bit "Oh well, th Adeptus Mechanicus on Tuesdays like to start up a war, and the Ecclesiarchy on Sundays after Mass like to go wail on some Tau". The Ecclesiarchy can't even manage to hold onto their own Shrineworlds using those "big independent armies", so I'd quit harping on that note while I was ahead if I was you.

As for the Inquisition: I want them gone, simply because they were shoe-horned in. Have said it multiple times that an Inquisitor HQ option that alters Stormtroopers to Troops, makes Valkyries dedicated transport options for them, etc would be a far better idea than devoting resources to making codexes where you're creating a force designed to completely shut down one specific army, if they happen to come across it.


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Temujin wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:Again, Ad mech COULD be represented quite legally by using the current IG codex as counts as.

Only by liberally ignoring the fluff descriptions of AdMech forces.

No, mostly by ignoring the fanwank "fluff" that crops up about them.

But that's no big loss since it's not y'know, official fluff.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

poipo32 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Again:
Adeptus Mechanicus... are NOT FORCES THAT SHOULD EVER BE SEEN ON THE TABLE BY THEMSELVES.
They are not self-sufficient, no matter what you people seem to get from fanwank.

Where in the fluff does it say so?
Space marines are also very rare yet they have multiple Codexes...

Kanluwen just doesn't like the Codices Sororitas, WH, and DH plus the novels Mechanicum, Grey Knights, Faith&Fire etc. and prefers to ignore them
Everyone else knows that according to official background Ecclesiarchy and AdMech have big independent armies and that Inquisitors can take control of most Imperial armies.

And those same people ignore the fact that the Ecclesiarchy and Adeptus Mechanicus don't go to war by themselves, simply because it's a stupid idea to even believe in the least bit "Oh well, th Adeptus Mechanicus on Tuesdays like to start up a war, and the Ecclesiarchy on Sundays after Mass like to go wail on some Tau". The Ecclesiarchy can't even manage to hold onto their own Shrineworlds using those "big independent armies", so I'd quit harping on that note while I was ahead if I was you.

As for the Inquisition: I want them gone, simply because they were shoe-horned in. Have said it multiple times that an Inquisitor HQ option that alters Stormtroopers to Troops, makes Valkyries dedicated transport options for them, etc would be a far better idea than devoting resources to making codexes where you're creating a force designed to completely shut down one specific army, if they happen to come across it.


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Temujin wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:Again, Ad mech COULD be represented quite legally by using the current IG codex as counts as.

Only by liberally ignoring the fluff descriptions of AdMech forces.

No, mostly by ignoring the fanwank "fluff" that crops up about them.

But that's no big loss since it's not y'know, official fluff.

Well, sadly for you GW is working on new Inquisition codices.

You presented you opinion, but that doesn't make any of our opinions any less valid than yours

Perhaps we should all ask GW to forget about all the codices, and launch just one big imperial codex where SM would be commanders of the IG and =][= that ought to make like 1/100 players happy and the rest, well...really off

Marines aren't allowed to command Guard forces, so that's an asinine comment to begin with.

Inquisition, quite frankly, deals with one specific thing:
Inquisitors and their specific forces. Almost every Inquisitor of a rank to where they start really leading combat operations have their own personal militias or permanently seconded Guard forces.

Both of which are easily represented by y'know...the Guard codex.

The Inquisition, if it's going to be done well in terms for gameplay, need to be made slightly generic. Which is going to screw the fluff either way. Hence why I'd rather just see them relegated to background, an HQ choice in the Guard 'dex, and special rules for narrative campaigns.

Kanluwen wrote:Marines aren't allowed to command Guard forces, so that's an asinine comment to begin with.

I didn't say they are, I was just being sarcastic

Kanluwen wrote:Both of which are easily represented by y'know...the Guard codex.

Guess what's even better to represent the Inquisition.... you got it... DH and WH codices

Kanluwen wrote:The Inquisition, if it's going to be done well in terms for gameplay, need to be made slightly generic. Which is going to screw the fluff either way. Hence why I'd rather just see them relegated to background, an HQ choice in the Guard 'dex, and special rules for narrative campaigns.

Sooo, all those players whit full Inquisitorial armies should just throw them in the bin and buy loads of meatshields, I mean guardsmen.
Somehow I don't see a lot of happy faces if that was the case. (weird but I just pictured Melissa storming in the thread with flamer in hand)

Plus on this last quotation your making too many assumptions. You have no clue of what GW has in store for either army apart from rumours which are as accurate as a gretchin' shooting.
Wait for the codex then write your critics on it.
And changing fluff wouldn't be a problem for GW, they have done countless times before.

The Daemonhunters and Witchhunter codices represent one specific branch of the Inquisition.

Those specific branches are designed to deal with one specific threat. That's not a good way to do game design for a tabletop game.

40k should not be a rock, paper, scissors affair. Daemonhunters/Witchhunters/Alienhunters are, again, trained and tailored to counter one specific threat.

As for your "loads of meatshields" comment?
You did read my comment of "Stormtroopers as Troops choices with an Inquisitor as your HQ choice", riiiight?

And you have no clue what GW has in store for the Inquisition either, so I'd stop while I was ahead if I were you.

1.) WH and DH have fantastic models. FW is planning to do a nice AdMech army. Inquisitor retinues are perhaps the most colourful and divers HQ units in the game, so inspiring that a complete RPG is based on them alone (Dark Heresy). It is okay that some people don't like them. Personally I don't care about Space Marines. But I am not trying to prevent other people to have fun with these armies.

2.) AdMech defends Forge Worlds, Ecclesiarchy defends Shrine Worlds. Both fractions have a huge independent army to use for their own purposes which can be quite different from Imperial purposes. It is easier to find reasons for them fighting a tabletop battle than for two loyal Space Marine chapters to fight each other (the latter a common sight in the game).

3.) DH and WH represent just one specific branch of the Inquisition? Well, DH and WH represent TWO branches and 2/3 of the Inquisition forces. Either you don't know the basic facts or deliberately try to give a false impression to the less informed readers. Of course, Inquisition forces can have specific tasks, but that doesn't mean that they would not defend themselves against Tyranids, Orks or Necrons. And the usual SM army can always be viewed as a Heretic. So again, your argument doesn't make sense on close scrutiny.

BTW, current rumours point to a Grey Knight Codex quite soon, an Ecclesiarchy Codex much later and an Inquisition supplement or WD article.

Okay, I think you might be misunderstanding me.
When I say "one specific branch of the Inquisition", they each represent ONE SPECIFIC BRANCH OF THE INQUISITION.

You know, the Ordo Malleus and the Ordo Hereticus?
Yeah.

It's also worth noting that the majority of the "usual SM army" cannot be viewed as a Heretic, simply because they're far more pious than your average Inquisitor.

As for the "two loyal Space Marine Chapters fighting each other" point...that's something that irks me too. But that has to do more with the playerbase, not the game itself or background.

And I hope to Hell that the Ecclesiarchy is gutted like a fish and Grey Knights don't get their own codex. Those both are such stupid ideas that I cannot even find good words to describe it other than "Megadumb".

It would IMO be unconscionable to produce another Imperial Codex before Necrons and DE had been updated.

well, it is pretty well established that GW has about as much consience as a Dark Eldar.

Grey Knights may technically be a Impierial codex, but they have a very distinct feel.

Grey Knights at least won't be another Space Marine codex(Hopeing and praying )



Eldar are the only race besides humans that have multiple codexs. and there is still only 1 Guard codex and a million SM codexs. an Ad Mech codex would be a very different army compared to these 2 and would add some varity to the Impierial pot of blandness.

and the Non-impierial codexs are, for the most part, good codexs.

the DE codex isn't bad(people win with it all the time), it just needs an update.

Necrons just got nerfed by the vehicle damage table change.

ork codex is great.

T'au are the only truly "Bad" codex as they have a rotten troops choice that is mandatory to take. they do win, but players have to learn to get around the Handicap. again it can be solved with an update.

Nid codex is good. it wasn't as strong as the 2 marine codexs that came out with it, but they are a good solid codex. they suffored from some rules wording problems, but so did the 2 Marine codexs that came at the same time.




Ad Mech would have a different feel then other Impierial Codexs(it wouldn't be like SMs or Guard) it would have almost no units that are related to the other Impierial codexs. a Completely new miniature range to be sure.

but for sure they should update all old Dex's first

Kanluwen wrote:As for the "two loyal Space Marine Chapters fighting each other" point...that's something that irks me too. But that has to do more with the playerbase, not the game itself or background.

Agreed, that's why more army diversity would be a good thing, something to stir players away from marines.

Kanluwen wrote:
And I hope to Hell that the Ecclesiarchy is gutted like a fish and Grey Knights don't get their own codex. Those both are such stupid ideas that I cannot even find good words to describe it other than "Megadumb".

Nice to see we're stirring away from the "fanwank" and into "Megadumb"* in this conversation.

Seriously, you're basing all your arguments around the fact that you don't want Inquisition to have their own codex, when they already have one and GW has confirmed that they're working on the next DH codex. If you're so mad with it simple don't play with Inquisitorial armies.

And if you think C: WH and C: DH are stupid ideas fear knowing what you think of the old codex Catachan or all of the Marine codices currently in production.

*Definition of Megadumb = Ork in Mega armour.

Krauser wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
And I hope to Hell that the Ecclesiarchy is gutted like a fish and Grey Knights don't get their own codex. Those both are such stupid ideas that I cannot even find good words to describe it other than "Megadumb".

Nice to see we're stirring away from the "fanwank" and into "Megadumb"* in this conversation.

Seriously, you're basing all your arguments around the fact that you don't want Inquisition to have their own codex, when they already have one and GW has confirmed that they're working on the next DH codex. If you're so mad with it simple don't play with Inquisitorial armies.

I agree, Kanluwen's argument seems to be going into the realms of "I don't like it so it's dumb. You don't like that? You're dumb too."

There is nothing wrong with the Inquisition getting their own codex, and to be honest I don't see what exactly you're getting at with this vein of thought, Kanluwen. Care to explain? After all, the Inquisition is no more a stupid idea than say, vikings in space (more correctly known as the Space Wolves) and I don't see you complaining about that.

This has got to be the worst series of Kanluwen posts I have seen yet, and that's saying something.

But on topic, Admech needs a codex!

Krauser wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:As for the "two loyal Space Marine Chapters fighting each other" point...that's something that irks me too. But that has to do more with the playerbase, not the game itself or background.

Agreed, that's why more army diversity would be a good thing, something to stir players away from marines.

And where will you be by introducing MORE Imperial factions into the mix to solve the "stirring players away from Marines" idea?

Right back where you started.
And no, that's not a suggestion to see more random pulled out of the ass Xenos codices. They need to finish what they're doing, make everything on an even-ish playing field(There's going to be a natural problem with this part since you could end up with match-ups like a Gaunt horde facing a Mech Guard force, etc).
Putting it simply:
Every possible permutation needs to be considered. We should not be seeing powerbuilds/power 'dexes.

Krauser wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
And I hope to Hell that the Ecclesiarchy is gutted like a fish and Grey Knights don't get their own codex. Those both are such stupid ideas that I cannot even find good words to describe it other than "Megadumb".

Nice to see we're stirring away from the "fanwank" and into "Megadumb"* in this conversation.

Seriously, you're basing all your arguments around the fact that you don't want Inquisition to have their own codex, when they already have one and GW has confirmed that they're working on the next DH codex. If you're so mad with it simple don't play with Inquisitorial armies.

Okay. Since this apparently is too friggin' complicated for you:
I do not want to see the Inquisition with their own codices simply because Inquisitorial forces are not something that are either common, nor deployed to the frontlines.
If we had a skirmish/Kill-Team styled objective game? Sure. I'd be happy seeing an Inquisitorial force for that. I'd also be okay with seeing Inquisitorial forces(Grey Knight Terminator Squads led by a Brother-Captain, Sisters of Battle accompanying an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor, a Deathwatch Kill-Team) as options for Codex: Space Marine(the vanilla one. Yes. Simply because you will not see the Dark Angels really letting Inquisitorial forces in with them, nor Space Wolves or Blood Angels) and Codex:Imperial Guard. Give them a specific target objective that if unfulfilled, counts against you.

Because again:
Pure Inquisitorial forces DO NOT EXIST AS A PURE FRONTLINE FORCE. They field teams for specific objectives. Those teams are fielded alongside standard Imperial forces. You will never see them on the frontline solo.

The Inquisition, at most, has Inquisitorial Stormtroopers in addition to whatever Chamber Militant the Inquisitor can convince to join him. Radicals need not apply for that kind of aid, so they'll most likely have whatever "standard" Imperial forces(Marine Chapters, Guard regiments, etc) they can coerce into joining them.

And if you think C: WH and C: DH are stupid ideas fear knowing what you think of the old codex Catachan or all of the Marine codices currently in production.

Codex: Catachan made sense. It was to distinguish the fact that Catachan forces fought very differently than a standard Guard force would.
Codex: Space Wolves, again, makes sense. It distinguishes a radical departure from the standard Marine forces.
Codex: Blood Angels was an example of "fanwank", as the author was friggin' terrible and just basically seemed to try to deviate them more and more from the standard Marine setup. I shudder to think of how they're going to make Dark Angels different.

But that's the problem with the Dark Angels and Blood Angels both. Dark Angels, without the Deathwing or Ravenwing would simply be Codex: Green Marines.
Blood Angels never even had that. They've just always had the Death Company and the random Black Rage to set them apart from the standard Codex Marine forces .

Kanluwen wrote:

Krauser wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:As for the "two loyal Space Marine Chapters fighting each other" point...that's something that irks me too. But that has to do more with the playerbase, not the game itself or background.

Agreed, that's why more army diversity would be a good thing, something to stir players away from marines.

And where will you be by introducing MORE Imperial factions into the mix to solve the "stirring players away from Marines" idea?

Right back where you started.
And no, that's not a suggestion to see more random pulled out of the ass Xenos codices. They need to finish what they're doing, make everything on an even-ish playing field(There's going to be a natural problem with this part since you could end up with match-ups like a Gaunt horde facing a Mech Guard force, etc).
Putting it simply:
Every possible permutation needs to be considered. We should not be seeing powerbuilds/power 'dexes.

The fact that we're discussing AM codex is exclusively to keep this thread on topic. If you have ideas for xenos or Heretic codices present them and they shall be discussed just as the AM is being discussed right now.

For example I'd like to see the chaos legion separated, a codex per god + one undivided codex (much like space marines) or for the sake of simplicity 1 codex for the chaos gods (legions and deamons and one undivided codex, but GW decided to split CSM and Deamons into 2 different codices. Tough luck, no point in complaining about that its done.

Kanluwen wrote:

Krauser wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
And I hope to Hell that the Ecclesiarchy is gutted like a fish and Grey Knights don't get their own codex. Those both are such stupid ideas that I cannot even find good words to describe it other than "Megadumb".

Nice to see we're stirring away from the "fanwank" and into "Megadumb"* in this conversation.

Seriously, you're basing all your arguments around the fact that you don't want Inquisition to have their own codex, when they already have one and GW has confirmed that they're working on the next DH codex. If you're so mad with it simple don't play with Inquisitorial armies.

Okay. Since this apparently is too friggin' complicated for you:
I do not want to see the Inquisition with their own codices simply because Inquisitorial forces are not something that are either common, nor deployed to the frontlines.
If we had a skirmish/Kill-Team styled objective game? Sure. I'd be happy seeing an Inquisitorial force for that. I'd also be okay with seeing Inquisitorial forces(Grey Knight Terminator Squads led by a Brother-Captain, Sisters of Battle accompanying an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor, a Deathwatch Kill-Team) as options for Codex: Space Marine(the vanilla one. Yes. Simply because you will not see the Dark Angels really letting Inquisitorial forces in with them, nor Space Wolves or Blood Angels) and Codex:Imperial Guard. Give them a specific target objective that if unfulfilled, counts against you.

Because again:
Pure Inquisitorial forces DO NOT EXIST AS A PURE FRONTLINE FORCE. They field teams for specific objectives. Those teams are fielded alongside standard Imperial forces. You will never see them on the frontline solo.

The Inquisition, at most, has Inquisitorial Stormtroopers in addition to whatever Chamber Militant the Inquisitor can convince to join him. Radicals need not apply for that kind of aid, so they'll most likely have whatever "standard" Imperial forces(Marine Chapters, Guard regiments, etc) they can coerce into joining them.

Never though about quoting myself, but your reply can be answered with my previous statement.

Krauser wrote:
Seriously, you're basing all your arguments around the fact that you don't want Inquisition to have their own codex, when they already have one and GW has confirmed that they're working on the next DH codex. If you're so mad with it simple don't play with Inquisitorial armies.

Inquisitorial armies are front line fighters, just not in the same numbers as IG or astartes.
The fact that they mainly operate within Imperial borders and can commandeer other Imperial forces does not change the fact they have their own armed force and that they are more than able to fight their own wars when needed to.

Do they often count with the support of other Imperial forces? yes, of course. but so does IG. I lost track of the amount of fluff there is of marines fighting alongside IG.
All this to say that your arguments aren't valid as fact but simply your opinion, which I respect as an opinion, nothing more nothing less.

Imperial Guard and Marines are forces that act on their own. Outside of the Guard's reliance on the Imperial Navy for traveling to and from warzones and the occasional orbital bombardment/fighter cover, they do not rely upon anyone else once the actual fighting is going on.
And yes, I'm discounting the Munitorium, which keeps them supplied and fighting. Simply because those kinds of things are figured in when the Guard leave for a combat zone.

They do not need to demand forces be placed under their command nor do they need to rely on other forces being in theater to accomplish their objectives.

Now, as for the Marines and Guard fighting alongside each other?
Of course they do. The Guard are equipped to fight lengthy campaigns and stalemate the enemy into a deadlock.
Marines, mind you, pick where they want to deploy. They don't often, it seems, decide upon "Hey, let's go to this warzone where we'll be doing a prolonged, decade long war with no possible assistance" when they can opt instead utilize the skills that Marines are heavily invested in(surgical strikes breaking the back of an enemy force, precision Drop Pod assaults, Terminator deployment, etc. And for all of those to be employed it's going to be a vital world, since the Marines are expending a lot of resources in one combat operation) to break a stalemated campaign.

And no, the Inquisition is not able to fight their own wars by themselves. They have, off the top of my head, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers as the only thing that is directly under their command. There are some oddities that crop up from time to time, like the Elysian Detachment 99(which started out as being seconded, but then became an Inquisitor's personal strike force as the numbers were whittled down to being just a Company leftover from an entire Regiment).

Everything else has to be requisitioned from the Chambers Militant, which can turn them down, or requested from the Ministratum to get Guard forces, or requested from the Astartes.

Your argumentation stands and falls with the arbitrary and false assumption that all armies on the table have to be assigned as frontline armies. And that armies with a more specific function can never be seen on a frontline.

Tell that Hive fleet Behemoth that they are not allowed to land on planets with Grey Knights or Sororitas or AdMech on it. Tell that the crashed Ork Space Hulk. Tell that the awakening Necron tomb. Or if Sororitas are the only Imperial forces in a subsector, tell them they are not allowed to intercept the CSM force because it is not in their contract.

BTW, the intention of this thread is not to reduce the option for gamers by squating armies existing since 2nd edition, it is about creating new options.

And new options are completely unnecessary until everything is redone and brought up to speed. And even then new options are unnecessary when all you're doing is jamming something that hasn't ever belonged on the tabletop in.

Around and around and around we go.

Honestly you're the only one going around in circles.
According to your point of view we'd have never left the initial stages of the game and we'd be stuck with 4 or 5 armies (if that).

GW is all about the money, and if money tells them to release a new army they will and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

You've been going around in circles saying the same thing over and over again, your was clear 10 posts ago and still is. Now I think its about time to drop that and let the discussion flow into something more constructive or let the topic die if no one has nothing new to add.

Imo I think that either the Adeptus Mechanicus needs a codex or Ordo Xenos. I would preferably like the Ordo Xenos to get a codex for one reason only, Eisenhorne. For anyone who has read the Eisenhorne series they know how awsome this guy is. Eisenhorne is the example of an Imperial Inquisitor and in the Ordo Xenos codex they could easily make him a character. I also like the Ordo Xenos because I really like the Inquisition I think there a cool idea to go along with the Imperiums whole I hate Demons, Heretics, and Aliens motto. Plus they have the other two Ordos why not the Xenos. So of all the armies I think the Xenos are the one they need to make but the Adeptus Mechanicus would be a good one too.

I think they should make a Codex: Inquisition.

it would have an Inquisitor Lord as an HQ.

the Lord would HAVE to purchase(for free or for a small fee) an Ordo Badge.

3 ordos. Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus, and Ordo Xeno.

each badge would allow the player to use different troops. all would have acess to ISTs

Hereticus would give acess to SoBs. awsome psyker powers and Flame and Melta weapons. Assassins too

Malleus would give acess to Weaponry that can negate Invuln saves, good against Deamons.... Allow the player to purchase Grey Knights as elites(from Codex: Grey Knights)

Xeno would give acess to exotic Xeno weaponry. Preferred enemy to all non-impierial codexs. Deathwatch as troops.



you could do a mix of any 2 ordos(By taking 2 different lords) Mix and match things you like while still being able to be specialised.


Maybe also a SoB and Deathwatch HQ so you could do an entire DW or SoB army.

Nice idea, although, or so rumours say, GW has already said that an Inquisition codex is not on their plans =/

I voted for the Exodites. Only I wouldn't want them to be simply just Wood Elves in space, I think there is a real opportunity to create a new feel and character to the existing eldar aesthetics.

Umm... Sisters are front line fighters.

Ok, The Sisterhood is the Army of the Church.
The Ecclesiarchy is on almost every planet in the Imperium's control.
Sisters guard almost every church.
Sisters fight in, often on their own, all Wars of Faith.
Sisters guard the pilgrimage routes
Sisters hunt down lost relics and the such

And arguing that the =][= should not be there.
Hello, less then one marine per world in the imperium?
You would never see one, let alone a force of them with the same regularity you see the Inquisition in any capacity.

Kettu wrote:Umm... Sisters are front line fighters.

Ok, The Sisterhood is the Army of the Church.
The Ecclesiarchy is on almost every planet in the Imperium's control.
Sisters guard almost every church.
Sisters fight in, often on their own, all Wars of Faith.
Sisters guard the pilgrimage routes
Sisters hunt down lost relics and the such

Not by the current big rule book. The Rule book currently alludes to a cap of maybe 10,000-15,000 sisters. Page 120, states 3 Chapters of several thousand and many lesser sister hoods of about a hundred sisters sounds like SM numbers as opposed to the IG's level of presence within the Imperium.

Considering Sisters get a total of two paragraphs in that entire book and of which it flies in the face of previous well established fluff by a massive degree I, like most people, do not take this as canon or anywhere close.

What Sisters got in the book isn't canon, nor is it even fluff, it is a blurb written by someone who never saw the original work.

So, because you don't like it--it's not canon?

Yeah. That's not how it works. Fluff gets changed, as you lot are so fast to point out. Sisters are changing.

Don't like it?

Too bad.

Ok after thirteen years of the exact same plot with some extra bits tacked on from time to time we are suddenly given two paragraphs that ignore a fair bit of pre-established canon and... that's it.

No two page spread, no new pictures, just two paragraphs.

This would be like publishing somewhere a small blurb about there only being several chapters of Marines left in the galaxy. Would you accept this as cannon, even though your current codex says otherwise?

Face it, until a new codex comes out the Sisters canon from Codex Witchhunters still stands. 5th ed or not.

No, it really doesn't.

The Sisters canon from Codex: Witchhunters was universally whined about by Sisters players.

Then GW changed it when they created the rulebook, which is a newer source of background ifno.

And you keep whining?

Seems like you won't be happy, period.

I voted Demiurg, as Dwarves are awesome and I got into the game after the Squats were long gone.

Kroothawk wrote:

BTW, the intention of this thread is not to reduce the option for gamers by squating armies existing since 2nd edition, it is about creating new options.

Correct. Some people seem to be getting actually angry about the idea of new stuff coming out, which really I cannot understand. If so, its time to take a break from dakka ok.

Instead of Ordo Xenos lets have a straight Xenos Codex!

Includuing old favourites such as:
The Jokearo
Slann/Zoats
Ambulls
Psygores
The Hrud
And many more from passing fluff references.

Exodites could go here too.

Might as well give the Ordos something different to wipe from existence.

Mr. Burning wrote:Instead of Ordo Xenos lets have a straight Xenos Codex!

Includuing old favourites such as:
The Jokearo
Slann/Zoats
Ambulls
Psygores
The Hrud
And many more from passing fluff references.

Exodites could go here too.

Might as well give the Ordos something different to wipe from existence.

But they need something to tie them together. Which might as well be the Ordo Xenos. Sounds strange but the ordos are most hypocritical within their own fields. (Deamonhunters using deamonhosts). Not sure about Hrud and Psygores and what not. Kroot and Slann seem more amicable.


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Adeptus Mechanicus has been known to abduct the population of entire world and press them into slavery when their productivity goes down a few precentage points. I'm sure this requires the destruction of any local Army first by Skitarii.

Kanluwen wrote:The Sisters canon from Codex: Witchhunters was universally whined about by Sisters players.

Then GW changed it when they created the rulebook, which is a newer source of background ifno.

And you keep whining?

Seems like you won't be happy, period.

The stuff about shoe-horning the Inquisition into the Sisters is complained about as it had no place in the codex and was a useless, half-arsed addition that did nothing for the army.

However, the Codex is still the current one and as such, the fluff presented in it is canon until a new codex is released or the army is squatted.
Until then, What is listed in the rulebook is seen as secondary to the codex with the canon present in the codex as 'true' canon.
The much complained about codex Witch hunters states that there is six major orders and 'unknown' numbers of minor orders and that sisters are present as guards at nearly all Ecclesiarchy sites, patrol the pilgimage lanes, hunt lost artifacts, conduct all Wars of Faith and by the simple nature of these duties alone there is a fair few Sisters present in the galaxy. A damn sight more then Marines by at least a factor of ten or else they would be unable to be constantly doing the duties that they stated as doing on a constant basis.

Tl;dr the codex still stands as canon.

Kettu wrote:

However, the Codex is still the current one and as such, the fluff presented in it is canon until a new codex is released or the army is squatted.
Until then, What is listed in the rulebook is seen as secondary to the codex with the canon present in the codex as 'true' canon.
The much complained about codex Witch hunters states that there is six major orders and 'unknown' numbers of minor orders and that sisters are present as guards at nearly all Ecclesiarchy sites, patrol the pilgimage lanes, hunt lost artifacts, conduct all Wars of Faith and by the simple nature of these duties alone there is a fair few Sisters present in the galaxy. A damn sight more then Marines by at least a factor of ten or else they would be unable to be constantly doing the duties that they stated as doing on a constant basis.

Tl;dr the codex still stands as canon.

Except that the "current" Codex is no longer current. It is not being published. What GW is releasing is a PDF that contains none of the stuff you just mentioned.

By your own argument the new for free PDF is the latest source for cannon of which there is none contained. Therefore you go to the next most recent source for fluf/cannon history, which happens to be the big rule book.

Your much vaunted historical cannon is already retconned until the new codex is released.

In reply to your tl;dr I suggest Lurk Moar.

The Pan Fo could be reviled in the Xenos Codex.

Kettu wrote:The stuff about shoe-horning the Inquisition into the Sisters is complained about as it had no place in the codex and was a useless, half-arsed addition that did nothing for the army.

I disagree with you, but I won't take part in another thread highjacking by unhappy Sororitas players.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Pan Fo could be reviled in the Xenos Codex.

Pan Fo?

focusedfire wrote:

Except that the "current" Codex is no longer current. It is not being published. What GW is releasing is a PDF that contains none of the stuff you just mentioned.

By your own argument the new for free PDF is the latest source for cannon of which there is none contained. Therefore you go to the next most recent source for fluf/cannon history, which happens to be the big rule book.

Your much vaunted historical cannon is already retconned until the new codex is released.

In reply to your tl;dr I suggest Lurk Moar.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=11200008a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts
Exact quote:

The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't

And so GW has announced that the PDFs are not a replacement of the 3rd ed Codices and thus the fluff present in the codex still stands as current.

---

@KamikazeCanuck;
Pan-fo are some old in joke on this site. Something about a fan-dex on some alien faction called Pan-fo.
I'm not really up to date on the details myself.

Pan Fo were not from Dakka, exclusively.

On the old GW forums, some 12 year old posted his home brewed army called "Pan-Fo". The codex was so incredibly difficult to read, horribly balanced, and basically a mishmash of bodily functions serving as weaponry and movement.

Kettu wrote:
Exact quote:

The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't

And so GW has announced that the PDFs are not a replacement of the 3rd ed Codices and thus the fluff present in the codex still stands as current.

Hey thanks for the link, seriously. I just got a look at the BA and Tyranid Faqs, also. I will have to admit that their faq responses are getting better but am still annoyed that the Xenos Faq is difficult to read for some reason.

It is nice to know that they didn't hang the SoB and GK players out to dry.


I do feel that the earlier point is still somewhat valid in that the Codex is no longer in print and should not be considered a current source for fluff. The rules are still legal, but because there is a newer book in print giving you a different history that it is the history untill a newr codex is out.

What I think is funny is that what the BRB alludes to is pretty much what SoB/WH's have been asking for and they still blindly rage against the hinted change without even thinking about what this would imply for the army. By the small blurb it looks as though the Sisters will become the army for the Echliessiarcy and the Inquistion will be teamed purely with the GK's/DH's.

So what if they made the Sisters a bit more unique and special in the fluff, "Isn't that what the SoB's players have wanted?". Personally, I'm jazzed at the hint of armies hovering in the 100 model range. IMO, This tells me plastics and new dedicated sisters units. In other words. very good news for the Sisters.

What is people's problem with the SoB? I thought the WitchHunter codex was one of the more interesting ones. I like 40K because it does have political manuevering and Beauracratic problems. I find this more interesting and realistic than say "The dark side is bad". It also shed a lot of light on The Age of Apostasy: one of the Imperium most important periods and second biggest rebellion.
In fact its a little more interesting than the Horus Heresy because instead of originating from evil deamons from hell being evil it came from a failure to implement a separation of church and state edict. Something a little more relatable to us nowadays.

Honestly I don't think any of the choices really need their own codex. I'm thinking we have plenty as it is.

A Mecanius army would be awsome but way too easy to make over powered. Although I think it would be interesting to have a kind of Xeno based chaos army (Xeno cults/Xeno beast master type of thing) - lots of extra models one extra codex

Ordo Xenos.

Deathwatch squads for the win!

I see these guys as super specialized sternguard squads.

I think Kill teams are covered with SternGuard squads. The appeal of Ordo Xenos to me is actually having aliens in it. Maybe a dogs-of-war style mercenary army for radical Ordo Xenos guys.

Ailaros wrote:I voted for Xenos (perhaps rolled into a larger, single =I= codex), because there wasn't a write-in option

i reckon that would be a pretty fun army to play as, just running around yelling 'HERETIC! BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!'

Xenos Codex would be great and there are several ways they could be put together

Ordo Xenos would be a bit similar to the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters IMO

But I'd personally love to see the Demuirg most because honestly I miss the Squats, sure their kinda goofy and don't fit the GrimDark tone of 40K but just like the New Chaos Dwarfs in Warhammer Forge are more serious and really cool models I think the Demuirg (or just generally a reintroduction of the Squats) could work well if done right

But the best choice would be an Xenos (only problem is theres not too many Sci-Fi cliches left, Killer Robots, Swarms of Bio Warriors, Genetically Modified Superhumans, Grey Aliens with uber tech and Tech Savages (who in this case happen to be green), I mean what does that leave us? Carnivorous plants and mind controlling brains, wait no, we have mind controlling brains, the Enslavers -_-)). Another possible idea is humans not aligned with the Imperium, such as the Interex, who IMO would make a great army

Slann! Space-Lizardmen/pseudo-Old Ones.

Not exactly sure how Ordo Xenos would work. They have Death Watch but will it just come off as another SM codex? They're elite but basically they're just going to be like Vanguard and SternGuard Veterens. Beyond that I guess Inquisitors or their henchmen could use alien weaponary like Shuriken weapons or Tau pulse rifles which would be pretty cool. Perhaps the the most radical ones could have alien allies like Kroot.

Thats true, I could see that happening. I voted for them though cuz I pictured the most B-A Tyranid veterans training a whole bunch of recruits to survive battles with the most vicous alien species. They could specialize in close combat when 'nids get to close.

Thats what I pictured anyways

ya, hadn't thought of that. Nid-hunter veterans aren't really needed anymore though because Tyranid are pretty wussy in their latest codex.

Old Thread is Old


this thread was long dead.

let it lie or start a new one

I'm pro thread necromancy! New people start topics that have already been covered all the time and then everyone hits them with "Your thread is fail". When an old one but a good one comes back people also cry foul for necromancy but at least with an old one veteran Dakkaites opinions are already on the record and they don't need to repeat themselves.

I really need to buy the new 'nid dex. What happened to them?

Their giant monsters aren't as giant or monsterous. A frikkin Trygon can be killed by lasguns. Who needs Ultramarine Special Forces when you got lasguns.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I really need to buy the new 'nid dex. What happened to them?

IMHO the got pretty bad, my 'nid playing friend extremely dislikes it

mine too. He pretty much stopped playing because of it.

They did get kinda screwed, I mean they're still playable but it requires a complete list re-make

dang, he stopped playing??? That sucks! What is the fluff like if you know? Is it about the Ork's and leviathan?


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so monsterous creatures rule basically got downgraded? Thats bull! That was my favorite thing about the hive tyrant! I could send him into battle with a wraithlord and they would duke it out FOREVER!

xXSir MontyXx wrote:dang, he stopped playing??? That sucks! What is the fluff like if you know? Is it about the Ork's and leviathan?

AFAIK they didnt touch on it too much

More of the same I suppose: You got your Macragge, your Iyanden, Your Kryptman, all the usual stops.

My favorite part: An entire craftworld gets killed by one tyranid.

I Dont remember that in there

The Doom of Malan'tai? He ain't called that for nothing!

dang, those should be the rules on the tabletop

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Doom of Malan'tai? He ain't called that for nothing!

Ah you sparked the memory! I remember now. That's one awesome 'nid!

Space Skaven. That would be awesome.

GalacticDefender wrote:Space Skaven. That would be awesome.

Isn't that basically the Hrud? I think the main reason the Hrud have been in the background so much was they are a Skaven counterpart and the GW people say they don't want to turn 40K into just Fantasy in space, even if in a lot of aspects it is

Ya, but they are different enough to be unique. Like how necrons are space-undead. They don't really have an army though.

the problem with the Hrud is that they don't appear in the numbers to justify an army.

they are more of an intergalactic pest race.


they do occasionally threaten installations, but they don't form military units and attacks. it's more of that their feeding habits get noticed and they must be exterminated when too many laborers are missing.

So basically they're like third edition Dark Eldar.

Yes, but have you read the new one? Dark Eldar are as numerous as craftworld eldar.

....I suppose they could do something like that to fo rthe Hrud.