JFizzle51 wrote:I dont like their color sceme either.

Asherian Command wrote:IT would be awesome if they had a jet black color....

JFizzle51 wrote:I agree, replace the Blue with black and you would have one of the coolest looking chapters. I guess i dont like the color scheme because it is the same exact colors as my highschool and i really didnt like my highschool


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The chaplin has black armor because he is a CHAPLIN. and alot af chaplins have black armor

Matt Ward, Codex Writer, Ultramarines Player wrote:"Chapters [not descended from Guilliman's geneseed] are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.

[Chapters who do not emulate the Ultramarines] are aberrants, Chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters."

sub-zero wrote:

JFizzle51 wrote:I agree, replace the Blue with black and you would have one of the coolest looking chapters. I guess i dont like the color scheme because it is the same exact colors as my highschool and i really didnt like my highschool


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The chaplin has black armor because he is a CHAPLIN. and alot af chaplins have black armor

Well you could replace the blue with black armor and keep the gold trim...Wait a minute...THOSE ARE TRAITEROUS CHAOS COLORS OF THE BLACK LEGION...SOMEONE CALL THE INQUISITER QUICK!!! LOL

ph34r wrote:

Matt Ward, Codex Writer, Ultramarines Player wrote:[snip]

Basically, Ultramarines are the super-duper-best and everyone wants to be them. They can't be though, but they can try!

I'd be fine with the UM just being vaguely roman marines with a really good chapter master and the best psyker in the Imperium, but the fact that Matt Ward wrote this crap into the fluff... it just pushes it over the edge.

Melissia wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Matt Ward, Codex Writer, Ultramarines Player wrote:[snip]

Basically, Ultramarines are the super-duper-best and everyone wants to be them. They can't be though, but they can try!

I'd be fine with the UM just being vaguely roman marines with a really good chapter master and the best psyker in the Imperium, but the fact that Matt Ward wrote this crap into the fluff... it just pushes it over the edge.

And this is why Matt Ward shouldn't be allowed to write Marine codices...

JFizzle51 wrote:So basically everyone thinks the Ultramarines are Perfect?

JFizzle51 wrote:The Ultramarines are by far the most pampered and beloved of the chapters, and i personally have to say that if you put the ultramarines in a battle with say the Imperial Fists the ultramarines would get wiped out.

Tortoiseer wrote:
That and their legion pretty much protected the imperium single handed after the defeat of Horus and the traitor legions until the others could recover their strength

candy.man wrote:Back Templars are definitely easier to paint.

Black undercoat + touch ups + detailing and what not and you’re done.

Shaman wrote:Salamanders - Fighting for the people.. Are now depicted and lava golems with black skin and red eyes. (I like them alot before the latest recon)

H.B.M.C. wrote:It doesn't matter what the core product is, it will always be chopped at. Tall poppy syndrome through and through.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not my point.

It doesn't matter what the core product is, it will always be chopped at. Tall poppy syndrome through and through.

If Orks were the centre of 40K, the same thing would happen with them.

ph34r wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not my point.

It doesn't matter what the core product is, it will always be chopped at. Tall poppy syndrome through and through.

If Orks were the centre of 40K, the same thing would happen with them.

It's not the only reason, but it's a big factor. If BA were the core, people would hate on BA, but at not as much as UM.

JFizzle51 wrote:I'm not trying to knock the Ultramarines but, they feel real gimmicky to me. Oh they're the knights in shining armor, with no apparent flaws and i think its really easy for a new player to pick ultramrines because they're a pretty basic chapter. Which means their tactics dont lean towards lightning assaults (White Scars) or any other tactic. So the player wouldnt have to learn how to play to the chapters strengths because, the Ultramrines can do anything and be effective. I personally played Ultramarines when i first started and after two years or so i found that i liked close combat so i switched to the a diffrent chapter.

Melissia wrote:Just because you are unwilling to believe that other people might have a reason other than this doesn't make it true.

JFizzle51 wrote:I'm not trying to knock the Ultramarines but, they feel real gimmicky to me. Oh they're the knights in shining armor, with no apparent flaws and i think its really easy for a new player to pick ultramrines because they're a pretty basic chapter. Which means their tactics dont lean towards lightning assaults (White Scars) or any other tactic. So the player wouldnt have to learn how to play to the chapters strengths because, the Ultramrines can do anything and be effective.

andain841 wrote:I am afraid I don't get the "gimmick" that everyone is throwing out as a reason to hate the Ultramarines. All of 40k is basically a gimmick. The Blood Angels are space vampires (and angst filled too), the Space Wolves are space vikings, the Black Templars are space crusader knights, Eldar are space Tolkien elves, Necrons are space undead (with a splash of the machines from Terminator thrown in). The list goes on. Out of all of these gimmicks it is space Romans (i.e. the Ultras) that gets the wrath of the community? What makes that worse than any of the others? I have always found the UM hate fascinating but it seems to, in general, lack any consistency. Can someone clear this up for me? Why is the roman gimmick worse than the others?

Apparently the Ultramarines lack any obvious flaws. I submit that pride is their flaw (and a glaring one it is). For what its worth I will take pride as an interesting flaw any day of the week over angst/ vampirism, being a frat boy (this would be the Space Wolves), or being such a religious fanatic that the only thing I can do competently is hit things (Black Templars).

I will be the first to admit that the Ultramarines are overexposed and that Matt Ward went off the deep end with the Ultramarine fluff. However, this does not mean that they need to be automatically reviled. I know that there are some people who will hate something just because its popular, and that's your prerogative. We should all be aware that if hating the Ultramarines because of their popularity is valid then loving the ultras due to their popularity is also valid.

JFizzle51 wrote:I'm not trying to knock the Ultramarines but, they feel real gimmicky to me. Oh they're the knights in shining armor, with no apparent flaws

andain841 wrote:I am afraid I don't get the "gimmick" that everyone is throwing out as a reason to hate the Ultramarines. All of 40k is basically a gimmick. We should all be aware that if hating the Ultramarines because of their popularity is valid then loving the ultras due to their popularity is also valid.

Thorheim wrote:The chapter has received a derogatory nickname 'Smurfs' (Chapter Master Magneus Calgar thus becoming Papa Smurf) for their resemblance of the blue midgets, and is generally referred to in a pejorative manner. "

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:god this kills me to do this as i hate the smurfs and their codex but heresy era horus tricked them into a trap set by the word bearers. so they did do something

braindeadmonkey wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:god this kills me to do this as i hate the smurfs and their codex but heresy era horus tricked them into a trap set by the word bearers. so they did do something

Be tricked, LOLZ?

andain841 wrote:@everyone: The most common reason that I have seen for people hating the Ultramarines is "well, GW gives them more attention than anyone else so that makes them stupid". I am paraphrasing here but you know the kind argument I am referring to since it comes up all the time. Here's the thing, the above argument is a reason to dislike GW, it is not a reason to dislike the Ultramarines. So my question is this; shouldn't the ire of the Ultramarine haters be directed at GW (the cause of the Ultramarine overexposure) and not at the Ultramarines and the people who play them? Is it in any way fair to impugn someone's skill as a hobbyist and/or their army of choice because you disagree with a decision GW made? My point here is not that people must like the Ultramarines, far from it in fact. There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike the Ultras (the list is too long to go into here). The point I am trying to make, somewhat ineloquently, is that the absolute hatred that some people obviously display for the Ultramarines seems to be unique. I have never seen as much hate directed at any other subject in 40K (at least as it relates to fluff) and I just don't see what it is that drives people into such fits of rage whenever the Ultramarines are mentioned.

Kilkrazy wrote:The voices of the lovers and haters are so loud only because they are being shouted in a great silence as 90% of players get on with enjoying their hobby.

Kilkrazy wrote:You are bad and abnormal if you dislike seriously slowed fluff in your game.

JFizzle51 wrote:So I'm flipping through the new edition space marine codex and i started wondering how come the Ultramarines get so much love when other chapters like the imperial fists and Dark Angels only share a fraction of the fame. I was just wondering what everyone thinks on this subject

Gavo wrote:Although fluff has been getting pretty ridiculous, I mean, Blood Angels + Necrons? wtf.

SaintHazard wrote:For example, quoted directly from the GW website's introduction to the Blood Angels:

"The Blood Angels are the noblest and most heroic of all the Space Marine Chapters, a glorious host of super-human warriors that have defended the Imperium of Man for over 10,000 years."

And that's literally the first sentence you read.

It only gets worse from there.

Melissia wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:For example, quoted directly from the GW website's introduction to the Blood Angels:

"The Blood Angels are the noblest and most heroic of all the Space Marine Chapters, a glorious host of super-human warriors that have defended the Imperium of Man for over 10,000 years."

And that's literally the first sentence you read.

It only gets worse from there.

I wish one of those writers would write Sisters fluff for once. Maybe they'll actually win a major battle without being so utterly wiped out you wonder how exactly they obtain so many veterans.

Melissia wrote:Ultramarines are popular?
edit: (before someone inevitably overreacts, I honestly only know of one person IRL that owns a UM painted army... most people prefer BA, SW, or their own DIY chapters).

History of the Ultramarines
The Ultramarines have some of the most boring 1st founding histories for any Astartes Chapter in the Imperial history.

Circa M29: The Unification Wars. The Emperor of Mankind unites Terra, and sets off to conquer the stars in a series of violent and bloody battles. The Ultramarines’ Primarch, Roboute Guilliman (Nicknamed Rowboat Girlyman for his utter douchebaggery during the Heresy), is conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

012.M31-014.M31: The Horus Heresy. Almost half of all Space Marine legions betray the Emperor and turn to Chaos. The traitors lay siege to Holy Terra, and most of the Space marine legions suffer major losses. The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White scars are forced to make a stand on Terra while the Dark Angels lose their homeworld to renegade elements within their home planet, the Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard are nearly destroyed, and the Emperor is crippled while battling Horus. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs. After the Heresy, Rowboat Girlyman created the Codex Astartes as we know it today, including the separation of the 10,000 strong legions into 1,000 strong chapters. Note that the Ultramarines didn't participate in the defense of Terra, didn't sustain crippling damage to their Chapter's manpower, and note that, best of all, when they arrived they were too *********** late. The war was already won, yet their primarch still was the first to create the new rules.

546.M32: 'The Beheading': The High Lords of Terra are all slain on the orders of Drakan Vangorich, Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum. The rogue Master of Assassins is tracked down and slain by a Space Marine strikeforce drawn from the Imperial Fists, Halo Brethren and Sable Swords. Only a single Space Marine survives the campaign. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

843.M35: Distress call from Grendel's World investigated. Planet discovered to have been attacked and all inhabitants slain by terror tactics of the Night Lords. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

Early M36: The Age of Apostasy and the Reign of Blood begin. Warp storms increase dramatically and Chaos and Ork attacks multiply. The Imperium falls into turmoil. An empowered Ecclesiarchy becomes more tyrannical. High Lord Goge Vandire becomes the most powerful member of the Senate of the High Lords of Terra, and manipulates a small sect, the Daughters of the Emperor(AKA: today the Sisters of Battle), into becoming his personal bodyguards, the Brides of the Emperor. Vandire rules largely unopposed and more and more bloody and tyrannical. Zhoros (Fire Hawks' world) thermal bombed. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

266.M36: Sebastian Thor is born on Dimmamar. He eventually becomes a threat to Vandire, who sends the Frateris Templar fleet to destroy Dimmamar. The fleet is completly destroyed by a warp storm, still existing today, named the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath in the Clax system. Vandire's armies are finally defeated by combined forces of the Tech Guard and several chapters of Space Marines, organized under the banner of the Confederation of Light, led by Thor. Vandire is executed by Alicia Dominica, the leader of his own bodyguards, who reclaim their old name Daughters of the Emperor in a conspiracy involving the Adeptus Custodes and the Emperor himself. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

723.M36: The 5th Black Crusade begins. Doombreed, a prince of Khorne declares war on the Adeptus Astartes. The Warhawks and the Venerators are lost. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

995.M40-000.M41 The Macharian Crusades. Lord Solar Macharius sets out to reconquer the Segmentum Pacificus for the Imperium. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

444.M41: First War for Armageddon. Chaos incursion led by Angron and World Eaters beaten back by Space Wolves and Grey Knights but only at a terrible cost. Only about a dozen of the grey knights survive the battle with Angron. The local planetary militia and the other citizens are mind-wiped, sterilized and put into work camps, to slave away for the rest of their short, miserable lives much to the horror of Logan Grimnar. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

742.M41 Damocles Crusade is launched against the Tau Empire due to the Imperium's ever growing Xenophobia, a small, strategically insignificant piece of nothingness, inhabited by weak fish people with minimal Faster-Than-Light Technology. The Ultramarines are thoroughly defeated along with the rest of the Imperial forces.

745.M41: First Tyrannic War. Hive Fleet Behemoth attacks the Ultramarines homeworld Macragge. Most of the chapter is eaten by Nids and lost their entire 1st company, the Chapter's company of hardened veterans and Terminators. The second fight they get and they still blew it, lulz.

901-912.M41 Badab War. The Astral Claws, Lamenters, Executioners, and Mantis Warriors chapters rebel against the Imperium, and are defeated by loyalist chapters. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

941-942.M41: Second War for Armageddon. The Ultramarines bump into an Ork Waaagh! while running away from the Tyranids. They are saved by the timely intervention of Commissar Yarrick and the Blood Angels.

988.M41: The battle of Rynn's World begins. A large ork army, led by the Warboss Snagrod attacks the Crimson Fists and thier homeworld. During the battle, a stray missle strikes the Fortress-Monastary of the crimson fists, killing most of the Marines. The survivors are wounded severly and are forced to rebuild their chapter. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

757998.M41: The Third War for Armageddon begins. Having learned from past mistakes, Imperial Commanders commit a ridiculous amount of forces to hold the world. It drags on for months in a bloody stalemate, and soon Ghazghkull grows bored and leaves his generals to finish the fight while he goes looking for other worlds to conquer. Commissar Yarrick joins a Black Templars Crusade and gives chase. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

5999.M41: Warmaster Abaddon launches the 13th Black Crusade. The armies of Chaos Undivided lay siege primarily to Cadia but attack many of the surrounding worlds as well. Imperial Forces launch a massive counterattack, and eventually push back the tides of Chaos, but only just barely, and at great cost. The Space Wolves' 13th Company are amongst the forces seen fighting against the forces of chaos. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

As an additional note of interest, there stands reasonable evidence that the Ultramarines are partially responsible for unleashing the Nightbringer on the galaxy in the current age. On the planet Pavonis, it was brought to the attention of Uriel Ventris, of the 4th company of the Ultramarines, that a group of revolutionaries were digging their way straight to the Nightbringer's sarcophogus while the Dark Eldar rounded up the keys to unlock the thing. Uriel was given a choice: he could either exterminatus the planet, burying the Nightbringer, revolutionaries, and Dark Eldar all at once in a single fell swoop, or he could boost his own ego by making a balls-first attack on the excavation site with nothing but chain swords and bolters. Unfortunately for the entire galaxy, Uriel chose the latter of these options, lost the fight, and let the Nightbringer get free.

braindeadmonkey wrote: I mean c'mon, everyone at my club is ALWAYS bashing my DA for being dress wearing, gay primarchering, emos.

Terminus wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

braindeadmonkey wrote: I mean c'mon, everyone at my club is ALWAYS bashing my DA for being dress wearing, gay primarchering, emos.

That's because the Dark Angels are a bunch of dress-wearing, gay-primarchering emos. I thought this was common knowledge.

Devastator wrote:

Terminus wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

braindeadmonkey wrote: I mean c'mon, everyone at my club is ALWAYS bashing my DA for being dress wearing, gay primarchering, emos.

That's because the Dark Angels are a bunch of dress-wearing, gay-primarchering emos. I thought this was common knowledge.

so tell us why is lion gay?

Devastator wrote:so what? he happened to write dark angel
his name was taken from him nothing else

Grambo wrote:Because there the poster boys,almost all 11 yearold kids who play spezz marinaes play ultra marines.

JFizzle51 wrote:Hey guys lets not bash the DA. I actually llike the robes. I put them on my own DIY chapter to represent veterans and IC

SanguinaryGuard wrote:The Ultramarines are the face of the SM Army. I play BA and as I dont care for the Ultramarines, they are a good army. If you like IC's, the Ultramarines are for you. Almost every type of squad (tactical, scout, etc) have a special character. The reason Ultramarines are so loved throughout the SM Codex is because they adhere strictly to the Codex Astartes whereas BA, BT, SW, and DA all have their own take on it and it has caused a bit of strife between them and the Inquisition.

DEATH89 wrote:

SanguinaryGuard wrote:The Ultramarines are the face of the SM Army. I play BA and as I dont care for the Ultramarines, they are a good army. If you like IC's, the Ultramarines are for you. Almost every type of squad (tactical, scout, etc) have a special character. The reason Ultramarines are so loved throughout the SM Codex is because they adhere strictly to the Codex Astartes whereas BA, BT, SW, and DA all have their own take on it and it has caused a bit of strife between them and the Inquisition.

Except that there's only 2 squad upgrade characters and one of them's a tank upgrade, no tactical, but yes they do have a CM, Chaplain, Captain and Librarian, just like all the other Marine codices (except BT they have no Libby's). So if you like IC's go for wolves or BA

Melissia wrote:Ultramarines are popular?


edit: (before someone inevitably overreacts, I honestly only know of one person IRL that owns a UM painted army... most people prefer BA, SW, or their own DIY chapters).