Looks like your standard rocket with a widely dispersed vapor trail from the jets with the light hitting it at just the right (1 in a million ect ect) angle.
The 0:28 to me looks like the object breaking the sound barrier and you physically seeing the shock wave.
Hard to tell though with the crappy music dubbed over it.
Well I am glad you were all working in the base that launched the rocket....jesus christ. you are not experts.
all UFO means is unidentified flying object, and since NONE of you know, and I doubt any one of you have EVER seen a missile/rocket in flight like this in real life, ever, it remains unidentified.
Find me another vid of a rocket/missile like this, that shows VERY specific similar traits.
And even if it was said missile/rocket, it was not China's.
just remember to keep an open mind, you are all just acting out the part of the know it all. The other side being the paranoid tin-foil-hat-wearing beleive-it-all....
Clearly you're all talking out your asses. Every televised event I've seen of rockets launching look absolutely nothing like that. Now, am I saying it's some alien craft? Hell no. All I'm saying is that I don't know WHAT it is, and neither do all of you. But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.
What exactly are you trying to say here, urban? Are you playing devil's advocate, or just acting out the part of the refuse-to-believe-anything-at-all? I don't know what it is, but a rocket sounds to my non-expert ears like a reasonable explanation.
DakkaDapper wrote: But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.
Oh you mean this?
Let me break it down to you....
The above was doing this really really fast:
While spraying out liquid fuel. the light then hit it at an odd angle thus produceing what you saw. The blue in the middle was the corkscrew of smoke, and the white the fuel.
Based on that.. and my general knowledge of rockets... Im going to bet that my guess posted above is prolly correct.
What you have, is some type of missile/rocket/booster that is either comming down or going up while leaking fuel... and the "thing" you see is a sonic boom as it breaks the sound barrier.
It is a possibility, one of many. I get pissy when people say things like "clearly a rocket", or something to that effect. I don't know, nobody does, and to make any inclination that you do, makes you sound like a boor.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jp400 wrote:
DakkaDapper wrote: But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.
Oh you mean this?
Let me break it down to you....
The above was doing this really really fast:
While spraying out liquid fuel. the light then hit it at an odd angle thus produceing what you saw. The blue in the middle was the corkscrew of smoke, and the white the fuel.
Based on that.. and my general knowledge of rockets... Im going to bet that my guess posted above is prolly correct.
What you have, is some type of missile/rocket/booster that is either comming down or going up while leaking fuel... and the "thing" you see is a sonic boom as it breaks the sound barrier.
lol, sorry, I know enough of photography, and what smoke looks like over a long exposure, to know that the rocket explanation was BS. As far as the shuttle, while similar, PALES in comparison to China's UFO...
fantastic try, though.
people fear what they do not understand...I love watching people RUSH to find the most safe, logical explanation for things.....if you push hard enough, the square peg goes into the round hole....
IG_urban wrote:It is a possibility, one of many. I get pissy when people say things like "clearly a rocket", or something to that effect. I don't know, nobody does, and to make any inclination that you do, makes you sound like a boor.
I'd rather sound like I actually put some thought behind it... then sound like the ramblings of this guy:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also once again.. I point out this site... which disproves everything you are saying.
once again, I am not saying it's aliens in an alien spaceship made of unobtanium, I just don't know, and neither do you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jp400 wrote:
IG_urban wrote:It is a possibility, one of many. I get pissy when people say things like "clearly a rocket", or something to that effect. I don't know, nobody does, and to make any inclination that you do, makes you sound like a boor.
I'd rather sound like I actually put some thought behind it... then sound like the ramblings of this guy:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also once again.. I point out this site... which disproves everything you are saying.
let me remind you that the cover up for WHATEVER THE FETH happened at Roswell changed over 8 times. These were 8, official, government, announcements that changed over 8 times, to different situations. This pattern can be seen all throughout UFO case histories, it's documented, and you can look at the official reports from the government anytime you wish.
IG_urban wrote:
all UFO means is unidentified flying object, and since NONE of you know, and I doubt any one of you have EVER seen a missile/rocket in flight like this in real life, ever, it remains unidentified.
I've seen 6 rockets exhibit this behavior when their propellant burns unevenly, or some sort of damage occurs to the exhaust nozzle.
IG_urban wrote:
Find me another vid of a rocket/missile like this, that shows VERY specific similar traits.
No, I won't bother doing that, because you have very clearly indicated that you're more interested in conspiracy theories than probable explanations.
IG_urban wrote:
just remember to keep an open mind, you are all just acting out the part of the know it all.
Its been officially acknowledged as a rocket. It behaves like a malfunctioning rocket in flight. There is no reason to presume it is anything else.
IG_urban wrote:
really?....really?.....are you that arrogant?
IG_urban wrote:once again, I am not saying it's aliens in an alien spaceship made of unobtanium, I just don't know, and neither do you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jp400 wrote:
IG_urban wrote:It is a possibility, one of many. I get pissy when people say things like "clearly a rocket", or something to that effect. I don't know, nobody does, and to make any inclination that you do, makes you sound like a boor.
I'd rather sound like I actually put some thought behind it... then sound like the ramblings of this guy:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also once again.. I point out this site... which disproves everything you are saying.
let me remind you that the cover up for WHATEVER THE FETH happened at Roswell changed over 8 times. These were 8, official, government, announcements that changed over 8 times, to different situations. This pattern can be seen all throughout UFO case histories, it's documented, and you can look at the official reports from the government anytime you wish.
IG_urban wrote:I just don't know, and neither do you.
If you don't know now, then it is reasonable to assume that you can't know at any point in the future. Given that presumption any serious discussion, the sort of thing that would lead to calling someone arrogant, is impossible.
I'm happy you found an outlet for your inner conspiracy nut, but don't pretend you're doing anything earth-shattering here.
I don't believe I am doing anything earth shattering...I just think it's sad that some people will eat any explanation given to them as fact. And you are very arrogant, sir. It COULD be a missile, it COULD be a lot of things, nobody knows.
I also have seen no story claiming China's multiple UFO sightings that did not show up on radar, and were seen by millions, were rockets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
IG_urban wrote:I just don't know, and neither do you.
If you don't know now, then it is reasonable to assume that you can't know at any point in the future. Given that presumption any serious discussion, the sort of thing that would lead to calling someone arrogant, is impossible.
that is a massive generalization.
Automatically Appended Next Post: jp400, I also have to apologize, I jumped down your throat a bit, I read your reply, then some of the others, and kind of clumped my post together... I would rather have debated this with you under different circumstances, because you offered your OPINION, as an OPINION, rather than arrogantly stating that you knew exactly what it was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and that article does no disprove EVERYTHING I have said (going of the fact that the article is, in fact, the truth)
IG_urban wrote:I don't believe I am doing anything earth shattering...I just think it's sad that some people will eat any explanation given to them as fact. And you are very arrogant, sir.
I'm very intelligent, and very well educated. These two things often combine to make me appear arrogant, when I'm simply acting with an appropriate degree of confidence.
IG_urban wrote:
It COULD be a missile, it COULD be a lot of things, nobody knows.
The Chinese have confirmed that there is a military connection to the incident, and it behaves like a malfunctioning rocket. There isn't a lot of room for alternatives there.
IG_urban wrote:
that is a massive generalization.
No, its an accurate assessment of the situation. If an event occurs in the past, and neither you, nor anyone else, is aware of the cause it is reasonable to presume that you will be unable to determine it in the future; at least not with sufficient certainty to overcome your irrational insistence on skepticism.
IG_urban wrote:
I would rather have debated this with you under different circumstances, because you offered your OPINION, as an OPINION, rather than arrogantly stating that you knew exactly what it was.
You must find yourself offended very frequently if you insist that people explicitly label their opinions as such. It isn't hard to determine what is an opinion, and what is not an opinion. If you need someone else to do it for you I recommend that you revisit your English lessons.
dogma wrote:I'm very intelligent, and very well educated. These two things often combine to make me appear arrogant, when I'm simply acting with an appropriate degree of confidence
Well just in your first seven words you come off with an attitude of superiority. I am very intelligent and well educated too, I don't go about flaunting it. I don't spend the time to make every post of mine grammatically correct, and I am a bit hot headed at times. Like most people that are arrogant, you are talking down to me, you have been since your first comment on the topic. "Clearly a misfired rocket"? That is a very arrogant and presumptuous thing to say.
dogma wrote:The Chinese have confirmed that there is a military connection to the incident, and it behaves like a malfunctioning rocket. There isn't a lot of room for alternatives there
Wouldn't malfunctioning rockets show up on radar, and wouldn't we have previous accounts of rockets behaving in this way? Yes, China has confirmed a military connection, but if it's "clearly" a malfunctioning rocket, they haven't they claimed it to be so? Norway's incident was "explained" within days, and it didn't halt air traffic either.
dogma wrote:No, its an accurate assessment of the situation. If an event occurs in the past, and neither you, nor anyone else, is aware of the cause it is reasonable to presume that you will be unable to determine it in the future; at least not with sufficient certainty to overcome your irrational insistence on skepticism.
Why is my questioning of an internet article's "fact" and "explanation" irrational?
"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
– J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 21
dogma wrote:You must find yourself offended very frequently if you insist that people explicitly label their opinions as such. It isn't hard to determine what is an opinion, and what is not an opinion. If you need someone else to do it for you I recommend that you revisit your English lessons.
More talking down, thank you. I did not request people to label their opinions as such, nor did I expect anybody to...it's not what you say man, it's how you say it.
Urban: The main reason people accept the rocket explanation is because they really don't care. This is not a UFO disgorging laser armed warriors into the capital or dishing out free psychic powers; no-one cares about some weird event in the sky unless it benefits/harms them
Frankly, I'm beginning to think you are trolling when you post these kind of threads: You know how most people will react when you post this stuff, then, like dreadnote said, you play the part of the eternal unbeliever calling us stupid for jumping to conclusions we really don't care that much about on a forum dedicated to plastic toys.
J.Black wrote:Urban: The main reason people accept the rocket explanation is because they really don't care. This is not a UFO disgorging laser armed warriors into the capital or dishing out free psychic powers; no-one cares about some weird event in the sky unless it benefits/harms them
could not have said it better myself.
J.Black wrote:Frankly, I'm beginning to think you are trolling when you post these kind of threads: You know how most people will react when you post this stuff, then, like dreadnote said, you play the part of the eternal unbeliever calling us stupid for jumping to conclusions we really don't care that much about on a forum dedicated to plastic toys.
No man, I'm not trolling, I just thought that maybe somebody would want to get into some fun theorizing with me, I mean, feth, its OT, instead I get shot down, and then dogma has to get all up in my jello, kind irked me a bit.
IG_urban wrote:
I don't spend the time to make every post of mine grammatically correct...
It doesn't take me any more time than typing in a grammatically incorrect fashion would.
IG_urban wrote:
Like most people that are arrogant, you are talking down to me, you have been since your first comment on the topic. "Clearly a misfired rocket"? That is a very arrogant and presumptuous thing to say.
Actually, I only just started to talk down to you. Its the natural consequence of the position you're taking, which amount to little more than "Cool picture, I don't know what caused it, and I'm going to badger anyone that has an idea of what did."
IG_urban wrote:
Wouldn't malfunctioning rockets show up on radar...
Yes, but the radar signature wouldn't be very large, and since it wouldn't be the sort of event one would expect it could very easily be missed.
IG_urban wrote:
...and wouldn't we have previous accounts of rockets behaving in this way?
We do.
IG_urban wrote:
Yes, China has confirmed a military connection, but if it's "clearly" a malfunctioning rocket, they haven't they claimed it to be so? Norway's incident was "explained" within days, and it didn't halt air traffic either.
Because its China, a state infamous for secrecy where its military is concerned.
IG_urban wrote:
Why is my questioning of an internet article's "fact" and "explanation" irrational?
Questioning is not by its nature irrational, but continuing to do so when presented with a highly plausible explanation is. It also doesn't help that you basically concluded that images offered in support of that explanation were shopped; following a line of reasoning which you have been highly critical of when used by others.
IG_urban wrote:
"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
– J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 21
Yes, but, as my signature attests, the certainty of ignorance is just as destructive as the certainty of knowledge.
IG_urban wrote:
More talking down, thank you. I did not request people to label their opinions as such, nor did I expect anybody to...it's not what you say man, it's how you say it.
The request is the natural implication of your apology to jp400 and your treatment of me. Not to mention the bit in bold.
IG_urban wrote:
No man, I'm not trolling, I just thought that maybe somebody would want to get into some fun theorizing with me, I mean, feth, its OT, instead I get shot down, and then dogma has to get all up in my jello, kind irked me a bit.
So what are your theories? That something has come from a different universe to travel at roughly the speed of sound over a city then disappear? Some hitherto unknown physical phenomena? Don King's hair finally escaped?
This ISOT People will get in your face all the time here, at least when it's Dogma you get rational arguments rather than straight abuse
my theory? Chinese or Korean based testing of a new air/spacecraft. I think it would be neat as hell to find out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Dreadnote wrote:There's "Hey! Let's have fun theorising!" and there's "UGH YOU DON'T KNOW THAT NOW START THEORISING YOU melon-fethers"
/hyperbole
I don't think I went anywhere near that, I got defensive quickly, mainly due to dogma's first post.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
IG_urban wrote:
I don't spend the time to make every post of mine grammatically correct...
It doesn't take me any more time than typing in a grammatically incorrect fashion would.
IG_urban wrote:
Like most people that are arrogant, you are talking down to me, you have been since your first comment on the topic. "Clearly a misfired rocket"? That is a very arrogant and presumptuous thing to say.
Actually, I only just started to talk down to you. Its the natural consequence of the position you're taking, which amount to little more than "Cool picture, I don't know what caused it, and I'm going to badger anyone that has an idea of what did."
IG_urban wrote:
Wouldn't malfunctioning rockets show up on radar...
Yes, but the radar signature wouldn't be very large, and since it wouldn't be the sort of event one would expect it could very easily be missed.
IG_urban wrote:
...and wouldn't we have previous accounts of rockets behaving in this way?
We do.
IG_urban wrote:
Yes, China has confirmed a military connection, but if it's "clearly" a malfunctioning rocket, they haven't they claimed it to be so? Norway's incident was "explained" within days, and it didn't halt air traffic either.
Because its China, a state infamous for secrecy where its military is concerned.
IG_urban wrote:
Why is my questioning of an internet article's "fact" and "explanation" irrational?
Questioning is not by its nature irrational, but continuing to do so when presented with a highly plausible explanation is not. It also doesn't help that you basically concluded that images offered in support of that explanation were shopped following a line of reasoning which you have been highly critical of when used by others.
IG_urban wrote:
"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
– J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 21
Yes, but, as my signature attests, the certainty of ignorance is just as destructive as the certainty of knowledge.
IG_urban wrote:
More talking down, thank you. I did not request people to label their opinions as such, nor did I expect anybody to...it's not what you say man, it's how you say it.
The request is the natural implication of your apology to jp400 and your treatment of me. Not to mention the bit in bold.
I do not have the patience to separate this into individual replies again.
1. I didn't imply that you did, rather, I was meaning to imply that I often have bad spelling and sometimes grammar.
2. I have heard the rocket theory, there is a boring hum drum theory for EVERY UFO phenomena, and there are plenty of cases where they have been proved wrong.
3. I did not know that, now I do.
4. where?
5. So is America.
6. People will drink any kool aid you give them, Bush's 80+% approval rating following 9/11 is evidence of this. Just because it is reasonable at the time, does not mean it will continue to be so. Do you expect a child who walks in on his parents fething when he is 5, and is told that they are hugging, to continue to believe that as he gets older? Very off beat analogie, I know, but I don't think I ever said that the rocket explanation was wrong, I just got pissy because that is the FIRST thing that everybody started saying....
....America used to think the Iraq "War" was justifiable. Then we started to think for ourselves and question the answers that the powers at be were feeding us, I am doing the same.
7. Read JP's first post, then yours, if you cannot tell the difference in aittutude.....then I don't know what to tell you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am not looking forward to when and if Shuma comes in here....my post count is gonna skyrocket....
Might want to tone it down a touch there, you'll scare away all that fun theorizing you wanted.
Dictionary wrote:
Hyperbole is a figure of speech that uses an exaggerated or extravagant statement to create a strong emotional response. As a figure of speech it is not intended to be taken literally. Hyperbole is frequently used for humour.
I think that it's just a malfunctioning rocket like the others suggested. I doubt it would be something other than that. It's not like they're not working on new air/space craft, but if they were I don't think it would look quite like that.
n0t_u wrote:Might want to tone it down a touch there, you'll scare away all that fun theorizing you wanted.
Dictionary wrote:
Hyperbole is a figure of speech that uses an exaggerated or extravagant statement to create a strong emotional response. As a figure of speech it is not intended to be taken literally. Hyperbole is frequently used for humour.
all I said was that I don't think I went that far.
DakkaDapper wrote:Clearly you're all talking out your asses. Every televised event I've seen of rockets launching look absolutely nothing like that. Now, am I saying it's some alien craft? Hell no. All I'm saying is that I don't know WHAT it is, and neither do all of you. But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.
Its the Apacalypse! Time to party! Where's my drink?
Because those spirals might be nothing. But they also might be signs and portents that aliens or extradimensional beings are coming to give us all swirlies.
So when you think about it, that means it's 50/50 that we end up with our heads shoved in toilets. ALIEN TOILETS.
Reading this thread I was 100% on your side until you brought up 9/11, Urban.
Cool UFO, though I have seen rockets do some wacky things. I lived in 29 Palms for a while. Those missile defense rockets they were testing out in the early part of this decade would blow your mind.
Please do not think that none of the people here have never seen a rocket launch. I have watched 6 different payload rockets launches, seen MRLS fired and even when I was stationed in South Korea I saw a North Korean Medium Range missile test which looked similar.
When a rocket is fired and it hits the upper atmosphere there is many different things that can effect on how people see the rocket. Air currents and air speed, the amount of moisture in the air, dust particales that reflect light. Also, depending on the location of where they want to the payload to be at in orbit the rocket might be seen from hundreds of miles away.
Before you go off on people please go to the library and check out a science book. Learning is fun and keeps you from looking paranoid. If you do not like the answers that are different than what you think it is then don't ask the question.
P.S. If I am wrong then I hope the aliens are kind and lube up before administering the anal probe.
Before you go off on people please go to the library and check out a science book. Learning is fun and keeps you from looking paranoid. If you do not like the answers that are different than what you think it is then don't ask the question.
Go to 1:50, that the effect a sonic boom has on semi-gaseous clouds in the atmosphere. Note the resemblance to the video you posted.
IG_urban wrote:
6. People will drink any kool aid you give them, Bush's 80+% approval rating following 9/11 is evidence of this. Just because it is reasonable at the time, does not mean it will continue to be so. Do you expect a child who walks in on his parents fething when he is 5, and is told that they are hugging, to continue to believe that as he gets older?
The child would have reason to alter his belief as he aged. You don't have reason to suspect this event is anything other than what it appears to be.
IG_urban wrote:
...I just got pissy because that is the FIRST thing that everybody started saying....
Its the most reasonable explanation, so that shouldn't surprise you.
IG_urban wrote:
....America used to think the Iraq "War" was justifiable. Then we started to think for ourselves and question the answers that the powers at be were feeding us, I am doing the same.
That's a poor analogy. Changes how one feels about an event is not the same as determining the fact of an event. One does not make a factual claim when calling the Iraq War justifiable. One does make a factual claim when referring to a given event as something specific.
So years ago I was taking a flying lesson when I spotted something moving off to my right. It was polished silver, disc-shaped, and was darting around in weird ways that you can't do with an airplane. Sounds familar, huh?
I asked my flight instructor what that was, and he kinda double-taked on it. Then at the same instant we both realized what it was -- a small helium-filled mylar balloon that had somehow drifted a few thousand feet up. Against the sky it was at first hard to tell its scale...whether it was a large object far away or a small one fairly close by.
The moral of this story is that it really can be "just a balloon."
gorgon wrote:OMG! I'm like, sooo afraid right now!
Because those spirals might be nothing. But they also might be signs and portents that aliens or extradimensional beings are coming to give us all swirlies.
So when you think about it, that means it's 50/50 that we end up with our heads shoved in toilets. ALIEN TOILETS.
So afraid.
I'm only scared if thats M. Night Shyamalan behind the camera, as if it is, who knows what the hell is going on.
IG_urban wrote:my theory? Chinese or Korean based testing of a new air/spacecraft. I think it would be neat as hell to find out.
Over what appears to be a well-lit urban area?
6. People will drink any kool aid you give them, Bush's 80+% approval rating following 9/11 is evidence of this. Just because it is reasonable at the time, does not mean it will continue to be so.
Sorry, are you one of those nuts who thinks something else other than the aeroplanes caused the Twin Towers to collapse?
As someone with a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering from Loughborough University who has won NASA design competitions, I am perfectly happy that such a trail could be caused by a rocket, and that the Twin Towers collapsed due to the impacts of the aircraft.
IG_urban wrote:my theory? Chinese or Korean based testing of a new air/spacecraft. I think it would be neat as hell to find out.
Over what appears to be a well-lit urban area?
why is that so hard to believe? all they have to do is call it a misfired rocket and you all forget it and go about your lives.
Fifty wrote:Sorry, are you one of those nuts who thinks something else other than the aeroplanes caused the Twin Towers to collapse?
As someone with a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering from Loughborough University who has won NASA design competitions, I am perfectly happy that such a trail could be caused by a rocket, and that the Twin Towers collapsed due to the impacts of the aircraft.
You could, or could not have said degree, I would never know. I have my doubts on both accounts, I guess I am a nut. People who think differently are usually ostracized.
You could, or could not have said degree, I would never know. I have my doubts on both accounts, I guess I am a nut. People who think differently are usually ostracized.
Or just insane. The homeless guys that occasionally rant on the corner near my bus stop generally think pretty differently too.
Lol at the idea that breaking the soundbarrier would cause a vapor trail to spread thousands of meters across in a few seconds. A multi stage rocket disengaging or an engine explosion would explain quite a few things, but certainly not "breaking the sound barrier".
Please do not think that none of the people here have never seen a rocket launch. I have watched 6 different payload rockets launches, seen MRLS fired and even when I was stationed in South Korea I saw a North Korean Medium Range missile test which looked similar.
When a rocket is fired and it hits the upper atmosphere there is many different things that can effect on how people see the rocket. Air currents and air speed, the amount of moisture in the air, dust particales that reflect light. Also, depending on the location of where they want to the payload to be at in orbit the rocket might be seen from hundreds of miles away.
Before you go off on people please go to the library and check out a science book. Learning is fun and keeps you from looking paranoid. If you do not like the answers that are different than what you think it is then don't ask the question.
P.S. If I am wrong then I hope the aliens are kind and lube up before administering the anal probe.
Don't be like that. I always quest for knowledge, at all times. Don't ever assume or insinuate that I don't. Besides, I believe I said that I DOUBT any of you have seen a actual rocket launch, and at that time, I was referring to the current posters in the thread. I have already stated that I get defensive and hot headed, but even in the midst of that, I still leave a margin for my own error, hence the use of the word "doubt".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ShumaGorath wrote:Lol at the idea that breaking the soundbarrier would cause a vapor trail to spread thousands of meters across in a few seconds. A multi stage rocket disengaging or an engine explosion would explain quite a few things, but certainly not "breaking the sound barrier".
Sure it pretty though.
wow Shuma actually posting something that I can loosely tie in to being partially on my side of the debate?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
IG_urban wrote:
You could, or could not have said degree, I would never know. I have my doubts on both accounts, I guess I am a nut. People who think differently are usually ostracized.
Or just insane. The homeless guys that occasionally rant on the corner near my bus stop generally think pretty differently too.
Or in the words of the immortal bard:
I think we are taking about two very different things, and I think you know exactly what I was referring to....
...your point is still true and hilarious, though.
wow Shuma actually posting something that I can loosely tie in to being partially on my side of the debate?
Sure? Keep in mind that an engine explosion or the firing off of a first stage rocket would explain the pattern of the vapor trail and in the cast of the rocket stage the suddenly decreased visible volume of the objects tail. I would chalk this up to a multi stage ICBM test going terribly awry personally.
ShumaGorath wrote:Lol at the idea that breaking the soundbarrier would cause a vapor trail to spread thousands of meters across in a few seconds. A multi stage rocket disengaging or an engine explosion would explain quite a few things, but certainly not "breaking the sound barrier".
Sure it pretty though.
wow Shuma actually posting something that I can loosely tie in to being partially on my side of the debate?
Thats not necessarily helpful though... next thing you know you'll start agreeing with Frazzled, then you're well and truly doomed.
IG_urban wrote:well you and I both share an affinity for weenies....I mean we are both under mind control of Legion, so we can at least bask in that similarity.
Well you have to admit you didn't see the 1980s commercial coming.
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometime you don't!
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It's Jesus Christ on a Skybike. Any fool can see that.
...I love watching people RUSH to find the most safe, logical explanation for things
Yup why hurry to reason when you can idlly speculate?
thats cute. when you learned that being hyper literal on the interwebs made you seem cooler, did you get excited?
ShivanAngel wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It's Jesus Christ on a Skybike. Any fool can see that.
...I love watching people RUSH to find the most safe, logical explanation for things
Yup why hurry to reason when you can idlly speculate?
But I saw two lights hurtling toward me on the interstate... I got the hell outa there....
I could assume it was a car, thats the safe, logical thing to do...
However just in case it was 2 wil-o-wisps coming to steel my soul, I hauled ass outa there...
we don't see millions of these things every night on earth, and as humans, we have not been accustomed to seeing them for almost 100 years, so I don't quite see how your little bit of sarcasm does anything else than make you out as a boor....
if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.
thats cute. when you learned that being hyper literal on the interwebs made you seem cooler, did you get excited?
Not really
Cool ain't my bucket of chum.
I don't really know what hyper literal means and have never used the expression "interwebs"
I was just amused by the implication that you thought it better to embrace an irrational approach.
You appear to be saying that you are keeping an open mind, which is good and sensible.
But then suggest what it might be based on nothing other than the fact it sounds cool.
In which case it could be Jim Morrisson riding on a storm.
There is keeping an open mind and there is saying you are keeping an open mind as an excuse for wild speculation.
That would not be so bad if you were not chastising others for taking a rational approach.
IG_urban wrote:if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.
@IG_urban- How about more overt. Your know it all attitude does come off as insulting to those of us who have served in the military and seen similar things.
Now, with that said, by using your own skeptiscism towards the most likely, I'd like to point out that the video as presented cannot even be verified as authentic.
If you want us to accept on "faith" that the video is real then you should return the courtesy. Especially to those that are showing that they have some familiarity with the topic of Aeronautics.
Now if I was going to postulate upon said video, I would venture two possibilities as to being the most likely/logical'
Look through all of them, Especially the M-03M(35)Lauch from about 9 months ago.
Possibility 2)(Less Likely) It was a Sonic Wave riding Hypersonic Aircraft using Technology pioneered on the XB-70 Valkerie. Rumor has maintained that the US airforce's Aurora Program is following this line of developement. Of course, the Aurora was a rumour when I enlisted in the early 1980's and is still unconfirmed. The reason I even mention the wave riders is because of the unique Contrail they are thought to produce.
A few threads ago, you called me out as a physicist. You failed. Heavily; claiming that you had studied to Phd level, at MiT none-the-less, something approaching a 'masters level' of research :(
You have no experience of high level physics. Please stop posting your nonsense in OT
But i still believe its the Japanese who have sent a Gundam Suit up into space! Am i right? Because i Believe it to be true. And i found this out at my LGS.
DakkaDapper wrote: But, this, coupled with those two "swirls" a few months ago over western Europe, is leading me to believe that there's something going on. Might be something big, might be absolutely nothing. But I'd rather be suspect until hardcore proof is provided than drink the kool-aid of "clearly"s.
Oh you mean this?
Let me break it down to you....
The above was doing this really really fast:
While spraying out liquid fuel. the light then hit it at an odd angle thus produceing what you saw. The blue in the middle was the corkscrew of smoke, and the white the fuel.
Based on that.. and my general knowledge of rockets... Im going to bet that my guess posted above is prolly correct.
What you have, is some type of missile/rocket/booster that is either comming down or going up while leaking fuel... and the "thing" you see is a sonic boom as it breaks the sound barrier.
These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)
These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)
Plasma rockets are not powerful enough to fly within earths gravity and they also don't leave titanic vapor trails. That is most certainly not what this is unless it was shot out of a catapult or is being held up by some balloons.
Red_Lives wrote:alone no, but it could be a new type of design that uses this technology to make takeoff cheaper and easier.
No... Not really. Plasma rockets exist because of the realities of space flight and the inefficiency of chemical power sources over interstellar distances. They can be powered by nuclear reactors or even solar panels (with enough energy storage). They are also huge, weak, and utterly incapable of doing anything but sitting there burning the ground if you try and take off with one. They do absolutely nothing to aid conventional rockets.
Red_Lives wrote:alone no, but it could be a new type of design that uses this technology to make takeoff cheaper and easier.
No... Not really. Plasma rockets exist because of the realities of space flight and the inefficiency of chemical power sources over interstellar distances. They can be powered by nuclear reactors or even solar panels (with enough energy storage). They are also huge, weak, and utterly incapable of doing anything but sitting there burning the ground if you try and take off with one. They do absolutely nothing to aid conventional rockets.
Oh well, then that just leaves aliens sending scout craft to prepare their invasion for 2012!
thats cute. when you learned that being hyper literal on the interwebs made you seem cooler, did you get excited?
Not really
Cool ain't my bucket of chum.
I don't really know what hyper literal means and have never used the expression "interwebs"
I was just amused by the implication that you thought it better to embrace an irrational approach.
You appear to be saying that you are keeping an open mind, which is good and sensible.
But then suggest what it might be based on nothing other than the fact it sounds cool.
In which case it could be Jim Morrisson riding on a storm.
There is keeping an open mind and there is saying you are keeping an open mind as an excuse for wild speculation.
That would not be so bad if you were not chastising others for taking a rational approach.
Try looking up Occam's Razor on the interwebs
Try not presuming that I haven't. I am very familiar with Occam's Razor, have you read any of Carl Sagan's work? He deals with the fine line between scientific fact and speculation quite often.
J.Black wrote:@Urban: Fail
A few threads ago, you called me out as a physicist. You failed. Heavily; claiming that you had studied to Phd level, at MiT none-the-less, something approaching a 'masters level' of research :(
You have no experience of high level physics. Please stop posting your nonsense in OT
Just because you think it's nonsense, doesn't mean that it is. I NEVER claimed I studied at a PHD level, I NEVER said ANYTHING about MiT, you are putting words in my mouth. I believe I said that I had put as much research into the subject we were debating as a student researching at PHD level paper, and I honestly believe that I had. I don't have a masters or a PhD, but I am almost done with my second degree. I am not an idiot. I have admitted already, multiple times, that I got defensive and pissy, but in all honesty, OT is full of know-it-all pricks who act the same way I do. Why don't you try being nicer when you address me. And please, don't ever put words in my mouth again.
I doubt you have any experience in high level physics yourself, kiddo.
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Red_Lives wrote:You guys... These recent "UFO's" are nothing more than a test launching of a new type of rocket talked about here
These are a new experiential form of rocket fuel and no-doubtingly these are just classified tests from the 2ond and 3rd largest current space programs. (Russia's and China's)
See? that is fething cool, to me.
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focusedfire wrote:
IG_urban wrote:if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.
@IG_urban- How about more overt. Your know it all attitude does come off as insulting to those of us who have served in the military and seen similar things.
hey...hey buddy....psst....read the whole thread before you post.
IG_urban wrote:Besides, I believe I said that I DOUBT any of you have seen a actual rocket launch, and at that time, I was referring to the current posters in the thread. I have already stated that I get defensive and hot headed, but even in the midst of that, I still leave a margin for my own error, hence the use of the word "doubt"
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think that the second less likely circumstance you posted is really cool, and if it WAS that, neat.
I just read this whole thread. It seems to follow this particular line:-
IG: Hey guys, check this out, now keep an open mind, and debate what it could be!
Poster X: Rocket.
Poster Y: Rocket.
IG: No way! You guys can't know it's a rocket! Rockets don't do that, and you two have clearly never seen one, so how would you know?
Poster X: (link) That's a rocket doing just that.
Poster Y: I've seen rockets. They do that.
IG: You guys aren't keeping an open mind! You just assume it's a rocket when it could be something else!
Poster X: Could be. But probably isn't. Rockets do that. Therefore it's probably a rocket.
IG: Yeah, but because of reasons A,B, and C, the facts don't add up! We could all be being lied to!
Poster Z: Looks like a rocket to me.
Poster Y: Reasons A,B, & C are invalid because of D,E, & F. Therefore it's probably a rocket.
IG: Yeah, but we can't ever know anything for sure! I asked you guys to keep an open mind, god, you all suck!
Sorry IG, but that's really how it's coming across here to the casual reader. I'd suggest stopping digging before you reach China.
Ketera said what I would have... without the overall seal-clubbing on IG_Urban for believing, or more likely, trying to get us to believe this bull gak...
if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.
I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...
You know, it's funny, but usually, the people who are telling you to question everything dislike their own theories being questioned in turn.
Example:-An acquaintance of mine was ranting about how the Bilderberg group controlled the world. I asked him how he knew that. He said, 'because lots of important people are invited, and no-one knows what goes on inside'. I replied with the suggestion that maybe, just maybe, it was a group for discussing things of economic benefit, rather than world domination?
He immediately said that was rubbish, and he knew they ruled the world. I asked him how he knew. He replied that basically, some guy had posted online saying they did who claimed to be an ex-member.
Naturally, I questioned the veracity of such an anonymous and baseless source. He then told me he couldn't be bothered to discuss this kind of thing with me, because I was clearly a sheep who would believe whatever he was told.
Kind of like here in fact.
It makes me wonder how when they question the official line/common sense solution, they're being free thinking non conformist individuals, but when I question their even less credible evidence, I'm a sheep.
If the majority agrees on something... that is usually because THEY are right.
"Daemonhunters are the greetest!!!11!/one11!!!!"
"No"
"Nope."
"No, XYZ are better because ---"
"Whatever! You're all sheep who don't know anything!!!!/one111!!!11!!"
They even gave examples, "keep an open mind" is not a valid counter-argument.
IG_urban wrote:if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.
I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...
Yes, go back to your herd of sheep. That'll show us. ironic turnaround!
dude, I got gakked upon since started this topic. It was not people "nicely" offering their opposing opinions, from the get go I was getting skullbashed and ridiculed for suggesting that it was anything else other than a rocket. I even said, many times, that it COULD BE a rocket, and I kept trying to push my point, because it's my opinion, that maybe it wasn't. Besides my first post, I never said anybody's ideas were stupid, yet I got made fun of almost the entire topic. It's happened before on here, I get heated, I know I do, but a lot of other people do as well, nobody seems to be accountable for their own bad behavior on here, I REALLY try to, sometimes I fail, but I try....
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ShumaGorath wrote:
IG_urban wrote:if I tried that, Shuma, I would have a lot more flame gak to deal with than I am currently, OT on dakka is one of the narrow minded places I have ever posted.
I may just go back to reddit, and just use the good ol' dakka for my painting blog I need to update...
Yes, go back to your herd of sheep. That'll show us. ironic turnaround!
I have no need to show you anything, I just think that people on reddit are more open in their ways of thinking, there is a short list of know it all's on this site, and their behavior is the same in every topic they post in, there are debates on reddit, but they are a lot more light-hearted, and when people act like dicks, they get banned.
IG_urban wrote:dude, I got gakked upon since started this topic. It was not people "nicely" offering their opposing opinions, from the get go I was getting skullbashed and ridiculed for suggesting that it was anything else other than a rocket. I even said, many times, that it COULD BE a rocket, and I kept trying to push my point, because it's my opinion, that maybe it wasn't. Besides my first post, I never said anybody's ideas were stupid, yet I got made fun of almost the entire topic. It's happened before on here, I get heated, I know I do, but a lot of other people do as well, nobody seems to be accountable for their own bad behavior on here, I REALLY try to, sometimes I fail, but I try....
You pushed your point because it was your opinion, then you lament that others push their points. When you throw around things like "arrogant" or "sheep" you're not winning yourself favors. Try not to decry the lack of accountability when you're attempting to backpedal away from your own actions by justifying them because your opinion is the minority.
I have no need to show you anything, I just think that people on reddit are more open in their ways of thinking, there is a short list of know it all's on this site, and their behavior is the same in every topic they post in, there are debates on reddit, but they are a lot more light-hearted, and when people act like dicks, they get banned.
It's quite likely that people are more open on reddit, but attempting to gauge the openness of a community with a UFO thread (when it's clearly a rocket of some kind) is a poor choice.
IG It's not a question of flock mentality.
It could be a super cool new Chinese weapon.
or it could just be a rocket.
As you are aware of Occam's Razor, try applying the principle to this scenario.
Now without having any scientific background it seems to me that the symmetry of the vapour suggests a bullet shaped object. A bit like a rocket. Chances are it is a rocket.
That isn't being dogmatic, it is being pragmatic. There is still an option for accepting other possibilities should further evidence come to light.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:IG It's not a question of flock mentality.
It could be a super cool new Chinese weapon.
or it could just be a rocket.
As you are aware of Occam's Razor, try applying the principle to this scenario.
Now without having any scientific background it seems to me that the symmetry of the vapour suggests a bullet shaped object. A bit like a rocket. Chances are it is a rocket.
That isn't being dogmatic, it is being pragmatic. There is still an option for accepting other possibilities should further evidence come to light.
F22 going supersonic
I have said so many times now, it COULD be a rocket. It probably is, it doesn't change the fact that it could also be something else. It made news, stopped air traffic, and I have never seen anything like it, I was intrigued, and my imagination went wild with what it could be. So yeah, I will get defensive when I get talked to like a small child claiming that there are monsters under the bed.
You know what the first thing I looked up when I saw this? rockets. For about 3 hours, trying to find somethign similar, I couldn't. I found things that vagely looked like it...but nothing convincing me that it was one.
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Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:So you're glad that your posts have caused the community some distress...?
most have done that at one point or another, if you don't like it,
IG_urban wrote:It was not people "nicely" offering their opposing opinions, from the get go I was getting skullbashed and ridiculed for suggesting that it was anything else other than a rocket.
No, you were being attacked because you called the people stating that it appeared to be a rocket 'bores' and 'sheep'. Personally, I think its hilarious that you consider the degree to which someone makes an amusing suggestion at all relevant to determining what something is, and that was what first indicated to me that you have no idea what holding an 'open mind' constitutes.
Yes, though you spewed your idiot all over the first page. This discussion is going nowhere productive, just you insulting all of dakka, since we're all close-minded, sheep, who have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge of the topic at hand.
Though you're a bonified expert on the matter it seems, so there is no room for debate.
I was intrigued, and my imagination went wild with what it could be. So yeah, I will get defensive when I get talked to like a small child claiming that there are monsters under the bed.
And therein lies the rub
thing is you are the one proclaiming there are monsters.
while being dismissive of other peoples' explainations.
I am sorry that everyone has been ganging up and I include myself in that. It is not good.
But you are still giving the impression that you know something and everyone else is wrong.
It will get peoples' back up.
By all means let the imagination run wild, but don't present imaginings as if they are a more likely possibility.
If you were to pop links up about the tech you think it might be it would help.
That way we would be in discussion about possible technologies, what they do and how they behave rather than this tit for tat.
IG_urban wrote:I was more than ready to provide links, but I was squashed before I even could get my idea out....
and spewing my idiot? you're too kind. ass.
You're too polite.
You've had five points, so instead of arguing with people (which seems to be one of your favorite things to do) you could have simply posted the links, and kindly debated.
I've had polite debates on dakka. Just because you're a radical doesn't mean everyone else is an idiotic sheep.
I was intrigued, and my imagination went wild with what it could be. So yeah, I will get defensive when I get talked to like a small child claiming that there are monsters under the bed.
And therein lies the rub
thing is you are the one proclaiming there are monsters.
while being dismissive of other peoples' explainations.
I am sorry that everyone has been ganging up and I include myself in that. It is not good.
But you are still giving the impression that you know something and everyone else is wrong.
It will get peoples' back up.
It is not good for a discussion, but it is hardly beyond expectation for people to group together against a blatant disregard for reasonable answers.
By all means let the imagination run wild, but don't present imaginings as if they are a more likely possibility.
If you were to pop links up about the tech you think it might be it would help.
That way we would be in discussion about possible technologies, what they do and how they behave rather than this tit for tat.
A while back we had a thread where we were discussing the possibility for life on another planet. It was really a lot of fun. As far as I remember, we decided that gas giants are not hospitable to life in general, but the possibility for life to exist in those environments is not completely impossible.
Fun stuff, I am not sure this thread can actually produce anything of value for anyone at this point though.
thanks for trolling shuma, you trying up your post count or what? I get your point.
dude, it just so happens that my opinion collides with the majority on this site on many things, so often, I am one against the masses, and I try REALLY hard to to be like "FECK YOU GAIZ, IM GOIN HOME!....and bakc handed insults? go look at what I have been dealing with this whole topic...
IG_urban wrote:if you are going to be a smart ass, at least be more clever.
@IG_urban- How about more overt. Your know it all attitude does come off as insulting to those of us who have served in the military and seen similar things.
hey...hey buddy....psst....read the whole thread before you post.
(Whispering conspiratorially)...I did read the whole thread. Some of those you were being dismissive towards are highly educated and not known for talking out their bohunkus.
BTW, I primarily started off my post with that line only because you had left yourself open for it with the "be more clever" line.
IG_urban wrote:Besides, I believe I said that I DOUBT any of you have seen a actual rocket launch, and at that time, I was referring to the current posters in the thread. I have already stated that I get defensive and hot headed, but even in the midst of that, I still leave a margin for my own error, hence the use of the word "doubt"
---------------------------------------Appended--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that the second less likely circumstance you posted is really cool, and if it WAS that, neat.
Just remember that others become defensive in the same way. The preview button is really useful in catching where you might be coming off as a bit harsh or harsher than intended. The times I have found that I upset someone, all have my failing to use the preview feature in common.
As to the Wave riding. Yeah it is pretty cool. The XB-70 was one of my favorite aircraft because of its having been one of the first aircraft to be used for sustained Supersonic flight testing that pved the way for so many other aircraft and the whole concept of flight by having the aircraft surf upon it own sonic compression wave.
The plan is to use the concept wave riding to provide the necessary stability for the aircrafts high altitude low friction flight enviroment while the aircraft uses exotic means of propulsion(pulse detonation or external combustion I believe) to attain speeds of around Mach 8. The regularly spaced "rope through a doughnut" contrail exhibited by wave riding aircraft is supposed to have more to do with their unusual high altitude propulsion systems.
Quick Reference here:http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/pde.htm
As to the broad wave exibited by the vehicle in question, The pattern fits the profile for a blunt body design most commonly used by vehicle(Missiles and rockets)that expect to operate outside of the troposphere and then return. The blunt body design creates a pocket of insulating air that protects the vehicle from excessive friction/heat. This is why I belive that it is a space launch.
Quick Reference Here:http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/shockwaves-research.cfm" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/shockwaves-research.cfm
ShumaGorath wrote:The videos not something going supersonic damnit, thats not how physics works. Breaking the sound barrier doesn't create a half mile wide vapor trail.
Think Shockwaves as opposed to the normal concept of a contrail.
Think Shockwaves as opposed to the normal concept of a contrail.
Breaking the sound barrier doesn't create an explosive force beyond what the aircraft was already subjecting the surrounding atmosphere too. It's a visual phenomena of condensation, not an explosion.
Think Shockwaves as opposed to the normal concept of a contrail.
Breaking the sound barrier doesn't create an explosive force beyond what the aircraft was already subjecting the surrounding atmosphere too. It's a visual phenomena of condensation, not an explosion.
In this instance Shock wave describes the compression wave generated by the vehicle. The amount and pattern of the compression is directly influenced by the aircrafts(rockets) frontal cross-section, Its length the cross scetion ratio, speed traveling and (In this case most importantly) Aircraft altitude.
The video while amazing to those who are used to NASA's launch profiles from Cape Canaveral(Kennedy Space Center) is not that hard to understand when getting into the physic of flight beyond the troposphere. Looked like Stratospheric flight progressing into mesispheric.
It saddens me that this post still lives. Sometimes I wish I was a mod, just so I could set it aside let it die peacefully.
Alpharius wrote:Ugh.
So much wrong here.
BUT, I am tired - so free passes for everyone.
BUT NOT PAST THIS POINT.
So, knock off the personal stuff, yes?
Does everyone really need to rub their opinions and arguments in each other's faces to the extent that they can't just heed these words and knock it off?
People will get in your face all the time here, at least when it's Dogma you get rational arguments rather than straight abuse 
